I have never confirmed this myself, but do you know if ignoring the large nylos will prevent the 2 smaller nylos from spawning? Like, if they blow up instead of being killed?
@Subject 323 This is something I struggled with when it came to gear as I believe it's close for the reasons you pointed out. I think population goes rapier here almost always in this spot unless you really want to try and go for max eff. I'd probs go rapier here myself, but I think both are fine options and just depends on the player ranging. Thank you for your input. I see you really took the time to analyze the clip and come to your own conclusion which is awesome to see :)
Hey awesome guide! So my question isn’t exactly about duos, but my friend thinks it’s worth it to go for a 5t on verzik p2 every time and risk a bounce, do you think this is overall better dps?
@@MaxCaliffDPT Honestly, I've thought about this before. The general consensus is to not do this for 2 reasons: 1) You want your entire team to be on the same 5t cycle. This makes it so you maximize the dps when someone gets bounced. Harder to do in less experienced teams ofc. 2) More importantly, the person who get bounced takes the kick damage + the incoming gourd. You kind of run out of food quickly, and in higher efficiency teams, you go in with fewer supplies anyways. Not to mention there's a chance you get kicked as crabs spawn and you die, making the raid take longer. Seems more like a fun gimmick to me rather than a tried and true method of speeding up raids. If your goal is to reduce your raid time, there's a myriad of better and more consistent options of doing so in the other rooms in my opinion.
Solid guide! Should help lots of noobs get duos down :) Nylo is certainly the most frustrating part of learning duos, and you did a good job covering it. One thing you might add, The mager can ignore specific mage nylocas, and force large clumps on a pillar as they will always go to the same pillar. Makes for nice large mage clumps and easy spooder cleanup, although it is difficult to do, as they can switch styles before you barrage if not timed correctly! Subbed :)
This guide has got me hyped to try duo's on my ironman, i feel like giving it a shot with a blade of saeldor. Would you recommend an ironman to stick to the range role using a blade for small melees or would it be worth bringing an event rpg (same as ham joint/swift blade except missing a defender, but dropable)?
Man I've watched this at least 5 times over the course of a couple months, i rarely get past the nylo waves which sucks. Can you give any extra tips for someone new to duos?
Sure thing. As a ranger: mainly focus on the rangers and try not to afk or switch styles too often as you'll just end up losing dps. Only melee if there are no rangers present. BP spec can also be useful to heal as well should you be under half hp. Also, help with the big melees in the middle. The faster you can kill these, the less damage you will take which in turn means less time spent brewing which means more time being able to dps and thus keeping pillars healthier (hope you can see how it can spiral downward very quickly just from having them alive). As a mager: hybrid a ton pre wave 20 (wave 20 being when 3 big melees all come out). After this, help the ranger kill the big aggro melees in the middle and focus on ICE BARRAGING pillars that are either low or have a lot of mages on them. You don't rly need to melee much if you're just going for completion instead of speed. The key to the early waves is try not to afk, similar to the ranger. Hope these tips help you man. If you still find yourself struggling, feel free to add me on Discord and I can try to help there or if you can record a run, that would be good too (Deflne Alive#1596). Best of luck!
someone mentioned the heem tiles to me and this video is the only thing online i can find it mentioned so i must ask, what does heem mean??? i get which tiles are heem but what does that mean? im so curious 😅
Heem is a friend of mine who showed me the tiles, so I named them after him lol. They're just tiles that if you barrage or throw a chin on, the damage also wraps around the nylo pillar, thereby hitting 2 tiles with only 1 attack. However, it only works on certain corners of the pillars. The tiles you're inquiring about are the purple marked tiles around the nylo pillars (1 per pillar). Go to any section of the mage portion for nylo and you should see them :]
There are 2 main reasons why bandos is superior to inq, especially for duos: 1) Yes, inq does provide higher crush bonuses for dwh specs, but at the cost of negative scythe bonuses to slash. While this may seem trivial, it matters a ton at verz p2/p3 as you cannot lower her defense, so every bit of slash bonus goes a long way. Having a slow p2/p3 could mean the difference between a wipe or completion. Also, inq only raises dwh % to hit from 50 to 56 or something (ballparking as I forgot the exact % but you get the point). It seems like you would hit a lot more specs, but in reality, you only hit 5% more which is far from a guarantee. It's more useful for team raids as you have the space to bring it as a switch, but not really viable as the main melee armor. 2) The armor's defense is comparable to addy. Why does this matter? P3 verz. I've actually camped inq top/bottom before, and it's fine until you get here. Even praying correctly, you use an absurd amount of brews even before webs because every auto destroys you. You have to play perfectly p1/p2 and even then you could still run out of brews quickly or sacrifice switches for more brews to compensate. It's just really bad compared to bandos. Hope this kind of makes sense.
Thank you so much! would you recommend starting to learn duos without tbow or ancestral? do either of the roles allow for a mentor/learner setup? which one would go where? how would you approach duos pedagogically?
A lot of questions. I like it haha. Let's see how to start: No tbow is fine honestly as long as you have a scythe to make xarpus doable. Only place I really use it on is maiden if high def and nylo boss, but a bp with ddarts is perfectly acceptable. No ancy is fine as you can use void mage. Makes nylo a bit harder, but nothing to where it's impossible. Both roles do allow for a learner set up. I would suggest the gear discord I have linked below, navigate to #duo-tob, and setup 1 is the beginner setup with void as the main armor. Takes out all the ancillary items that are more for speed rather than completions. Duos are the hardest form of tob that you will do, and as so, will take longer to master than other team sizes. A combination of practice along with the tips and tricks presented in this video should help cut people's learning curves drastically. Hope this helps!
Thank you so much! I’m certainly a duo learner. would the learner setups use claws/scythe for the melee role at nylo since they dont bring swift blade? both setups show an arcane switch over an imbued god cape. why is that?
@@kirill429 Correct. If you're not comfortable with 2 spec weps, you can ditch the chally. Claws are mandatory without rap/swift. After speaking with the disc owner, he said arcane is to freeze maidens crabs as both ppl are responsible. Would recommend pre-hearting as well for extra mage accuracy. Best of luck mate
Good question. Unfortunately, I haven't delved deep enough into the calcs at Maiden to know how it has shifted due to the changes. My assumptions remain that BP is still super at lower defense, but if you wanted to calc specific scenarios, you could use this: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wBXIlvAmqoQpu5u9XBfD4B0PW7D8owyO_CnRDiTHBKQ/edit?usp=sharing
100m gear is perfectly fine. You obvi won't have a t bow or a scythe, but that just means your rooms are a little slower is all. Biggest difficulty will be Xarpus. Would recommend 5.3t method with a whip (refer to the MVP guide if you're not familiar with it). Other option is to bp it, but if you don't hit specs, it won't be very fun
Great guide. For Maiden, doesn't tbow outdps scythe at all stages? Xzact's 1 minute guide on maiden had a graph comparing the dps of tbow, scythe, and bp depending on dwh specs and tbow was always above scythe.
Regardless of specs, scythe with infernal cape and 118 stats will always out dps bow. I haven't looked at xzact's vid recently, but this twitter post is what I reference (go to the maiden part): twitter.com/InevitablyRs/status/1121886683874697216/photo/1 Lemme know if there's still any confusion or if you have any follow up questions :)
Why do you blood barrage maiden with full hp? Isnt ice better dps since its 100% accuracy. Also for xarpus cant person ahead just burn a tick by skipping a 5t cycle? Sacrificing a scy hit for claw scratch doesnt sound great
Yeah, if either player misses a tick, the other player (who didn't miss one) should do 5.3t until you catch up. If either player misses more ticks than that, it'll take longer/be harder to sync back up. Generally if you're unsynced though, one person doing 5t and the other 5.3t will sync you back up eventually, without having to waste dps on a claw scratch.
Ice is because it has a higher max hit. I think splashes turn into 0 hits, not rerolls. The 100% accuracy doesnt affect DPS if that's how they changed it.
You are right in that Ice > Blood at full hp. I generally assume I take damage to be under 99 by 70s, so it's more so just a habit rather than a conscious decision to Blood there. In regards to the claw scratch, it's generally meant to be a quick fix if you notice you are 1t ahead of your partner as duo 5t heavily relies on both players being in sync. Ideally, you start and end in sync without any hiccups, but sometimes mistakes happen. For most people, this is a newer method they haven't really practiced, so I would generally advise to switch to 5.3t and make it past xarpus rather than trying to fix it and only making things worse. However, if the players are comfortable with more advanced methods of resyncing, that is perfectly acceptable too. Just depends on the skill level of the team and their experience. Appreciate the questions and hope I could make things a little clearer
@@deflnealive5253 no, I ask the plugin so that you can see the hits of your partner's special and when he has active vengans like the minute @36:14 Thanks in advance crack
How does ranger start duo 5t? Since the decision to dwh or bgs is based off mager’s specs landing. You showed mage POV but not ranger’s for 5t. Or do you both just double hammer and screw the bgs?
DD with your partner in the middle tile. Scythe 2x and spec once. This will be the first tile xarpus spits on. Meet up with your partner southwest and spec again, then go to the rag tile immediately, which is the second tile xarpus spits on. You are on now synced up with your partner provided neither of you missed ticks. To showcase this, pay attention to Hawk's scythe animation at the beginning since only he scythes while I'm specing. Notice when the spec counter goes up for the 2nd and 3rd DWH hits as I only hit once (32:20 in the vid). These are when the ranger is supposed to spec. As for what to spec, it's up to the team as to what you're going for. If you want fastest potential times, then the ranger can always do 2 BGS specs. If you want consistency, I like doing 1 DWH and then whatever you want to do from there. This covers the scenario if the mager misses one. The reason Hawk sent 2 DWH's in this example is because I only hit once. After you hit 2 DWH, BGS and DWH reduces xarpus's defense the same amount on average, so you can use either (again, BGS higher potential, DWH more consistent room time). Let me know if any of this was confusing or if you have any other questions :)
It's rare that this situation comes up (maybe once in 200 raids for me), but when it does, I pray you have a scythe > t bow. As long as you don't completely mess up with your partner (aka rag tiles and take unnecessary damage), you'll be just fine to complete it. If you're dd'ing with a bow, pray you hit as there is a good chance you will wipe lol
Definitely. Back when Puggin was missing his scythe, he did duo's with Lake using a rapier. I just advise people to get the best possible gear they can to make it easier. Plus, if you're camping TOB, I would suggest scythe > t bow anyways and buy bow back later
Typically, good teams will average 3.45 for the boss drop. If you can average 4.00, that's not bad for newer duo people or if you're just chilling. If you're not sure how to see this, scroll to the bottom of the RuneLite plugin page, click on the button that says "Plugin Hub", and then install the "Theatre of Blood Stats" one to show more detailed room times. 5.25 sounds fine though from my experience :)
Type any questions you have below and I''ll answer them usually within a day! Enjoy!
I have never confirmed this myself, but do you know if ignoring the large nylos will prevent the 2 smaller nylos from spawning? Like, if they blow up instead of being killed?
@@twisteddro5401 No. Any big nylo, whether killed or blows up, will always spawn the 2 smalls
@Subject 323 This is something I struggled with when it came to gear as I believe it's close for the reasons you pointed out.
I think population goes rapier here almost always in this spot unless you really want to try and go for max eff. I'd probs go rapier here myself, but I think both are fine options and just depends on the player ranging. Thank you for your input. I see you really took the time to analyze the clip and come to your own conclusion which is awesome to see :)
Hey awesome guide! So my question isn’t exactly about duos, but my friend thinks it’s worth it to go for a 5t on verzik p2 every time and risk a bounce, do you think this is overall better dps?
@@MaxCaliffDPT Honestly, I've thought about this before. The general consensus is to not do this for 2 reasons:
1) You want your entire team to be on the same 5t cycle. This makes it so you maximize the dps when someone gets bounced. Harder to do in less experienced teams ofc.
2) More importantly, the person who get bounced takes the kick damage + the incoming gourd. You kind of run out of food quickly, and in higher efficiency teams, you go in with fewer supplies anyways. Not to mention there's a chance you get kicked as crabs spawn and you die, making the raid take longer.
Seems more like a fun gimmick to me rather than a tried and true method of speeding up raids. If your goal is to reduce your raid time, there's a myriad of better and more consistent options of doing so in the other rooms in my opinion.
Watching this at 14x speed made me learn duos very efficiently, thanks for the guide
such a well put together guide, very high quality and valuable information to be learned in here, WOW
You don't wanna know the amount of times I wiped to Nylo making this guide
Your guides have helped me so much, progressed all the way from void whip to max setup except t bow and kodai
Tyvm for the awesome guides!!
Glad they helped :]
Solid guide! Should help lots of noobs get duos down :) Nylo is certainly the most frustrating part of learning duos, and you did a good job covering it.
One thing you might add, The mager can ignore specific mage nylocas, and force large clumps on a pillar as they will always go to the same pillar. Makes for nice large mage clumps and easy spooder cleanup, although it is difficult to do, as they can switch styles before you barrage if not timed correctly!
Subbed :)
Interesting. I knew certain styles tend to group up at specific pillars, but didn't know more than that. Cheers
Just found me a parter to finally practice with. Thanks for the video learned a bunch 🙏🤟💯
Ayyyyyyyy Ty, just started watching this and I'll have to guess it's going to be great!
that range nylo guy is insane
This guide has got me hyped to try duo's on my ironman, i feel like giving it a shot with a blade of saeldor. Would you recommend an ironman to stick to the range role using a blade for small melees or would it be worth bringing an event rpg (same as ham joint/swift blade except missing a defender, but dropable)?
Fantastic guide
LOVE IT!
Awesome guide
Thank you!
@@deflnealive5253 Really appreciate speaking slow so I don't have to roll back the guide.
@@J1M95 Beauty of youtube is you can always rewind too :]
Mage role duo maiden 5:55
Man I've watched this at least 5 times over the course of a couple months, i rarely get past the nylo waves which sucks. Can you give any extra tips for someone new to duos?
Sure thing.
As a ranger: mainly focus on the rangers and try not to afk or switch styles too often as you'll just end up losing dps. Only melee if there are no rangers present. BP spec can also be useful to heal as well should you be under half hp. Also, help with the big melees in the middle. The faster you can kill these, the less damage you will take which in turn means less time spent brewing which means more time being able to dps and thus keeping pillars healthier (hope you can see how it can spiral downward very quickly just from having them alive).
As a mager: hybrid a ton pre wave 20 (wave 20 being when 3 big melees all come out). After this, help the ranger kill the big aggro melees in the middle and focus on ICE BARRAGING pillars that are either low or have a lot of mages on them. You don't rly need to melee much if you're just going for completion instead of speed. The key to the early waves is try not to afk, similar to the ranger.
Hope these tips help you man. If you still find yourself struggling, feel free to add me on Discord and I can try to help there or if you can record a run, that would be good too (Deflne Alive#1596). Best of luck!
someone mentioned the heem tiles to me and this video is the only thing online i can find it mentioned so i must ask, what does heem mean??? i get which tiles are heem but what does that mean? im so curious 😅
Heem is a friend of mine who showed me the tiles, so I named them after him lol.
They're just tiles that if you barrage or throw a chin on, the damage also wraps around the nylo pillar, thereby hitting 2 tiles with only 1 attack. However, it only works on certain corners of the pillars.
The tiles you're inquiring about are the purple marked tiles around the nylo pillars (1 per pillar). Go to any section of the mage portion for nylo and you should see them :]
Is duo +1 not viable because of scaling on things such as crabs pillers or is there a way around this?
I suggest replace bandos for inq top and bot, there are almost no dps change with scythe, bet perfect dwh specs. Helps at Xarpus so much.
There are 2 main reasons why bandos is superior to inq, especially for duos:
1) Yes, inq does provide higher crush bonuses for dwh specs, but at the cost of negative scythe bonuses to slash. While this may seem trivial, it matters a ton at verz p2/p3 as you cannot lower her defense, so every bit of slash bonus goes a long way. Having a slow p2/p3 could mean the difference between a wipe or completion. Also, inq only raises dwh % to hit from 50 to 56 or something (ballparking as I forgot the exact % but you get the point). It seems like you would hit a lot more specs, but in reality, you only hit 5% more which is far from a guarantee. It's more useful for team raids as you have the space to bring it as a switch, but not really viable as the main melee armor.
2) The armor's defense is comparable to addy. Why does this matter? P3 verz. I've actually camped inq top/bottom before, and it's fine until you get here. Even praying correctly, you use an absurd amount of brews even before webs because every auto destroys you. You have to play perfectly p1/p2 and even then you could still run out of brews quickly or sacrifice switches for more brews to compensate. It's just really bad compared to bandos.
Hope this kind of makes sense.
Thank you so much! would you recommend starting to learn duos without tbow or ancestral? do either of the roles allow for a mentor/learner setup? which one would go where? how would you approach duos pedagogically?
Do you already have tob kc?
A lot of questions. I like it haha. Let's see how to start:
No tbow is fine honestly as long as you have a scythe to make xarpus doable. Only place I really use it on is maiden if high def and nylo boss, but a bp with ddarts is perfectly acceptable. No ancy is fine as you can use void mage. Makes nylo a bit harder, but nothing to where it's impossible.
Both roles do allow for a learner set up. I would suggest the gear discord I have linked below, navigate to #duo-tob, and setup 1 is the beginner setup with void as the main armor. Takes out all the ancillary items that are more for speed rather than completions.
Duos are the hardest form of tob that you will do, and as so, will take longer to master than other team sizes. A combination of practice along with the tips and tricks presented in this video should help cut people's learning curves drastically.
Hope this helps!
im at about 230 kc, about 30% trios, 40% quartets 30% quintets
Thank you so much! I’m certainly a duo learner. would the learner setups use claws/scythe for the melee role at nylo since they dont bring swift blade? both setups show an arcane switch over an imbued god cape. why is that?
@@kirill429 Correct. If you're not comfortable with 2 spec weps, you can ditch the chally. Claws are mandatory without rap/swift.
After speaking with the disc owner, he said arcane is to freeze maidens crabs as both ppl are responsible. Would recommend pre-hearting as well for extra mage accuracy.
Best of luck mate
learning atm
due to the recent BP nerf which instance would you choose bp over tbow in maiden?
Good question. Unfortunately, I haven't delved deep enough into the calcs at Maiden to know how it has shifted due to the changes.
My assumptions remain that BP is still super at lower defense, but if you wanted to calc specific scenarios, you could use this: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wBXIlvAmqoQpu5u9XBfD4B0PW7D8owyO_CnRDiTHBKQ/edit?usp=sharing
shoutout cipol3
King
Do you have any thoughts on the harmonized staff for TOB? Just curious
its shit cuz ud have to be on normal
How do able is this with only 1 player in max gear and other with 100m gear
100m gear is perfectly fine. You obvi won't have a t bow or a scythe, but that just means your rooms are a little slower is all.
Biggest difficulty will be Xarpus. Would recommend 5.3t method with a whip (refer to the MVP guide if you're not familiar with it).
Other option is to bp it, but if you don't hit specs, it won't be very fun
Great guide. For Maiden, doesn't tbow outdps scythe at all stages? Xzact's 1 minute guide on maiden had a graph comparing the dps of tbow, scythe, and bp depending on dwh specs and tbow was always above scythe.
Regardless of specs, scythe with infernal cape and 118 stats will always out dps bow. I haven't looked at xzact's vid recently, but this twitter post is what I reference (go to the maiden part):
twitter.com/InevitablyRs/status/1121886683874697216/photo/1
Lemme know if there's still any confusion or if you have any follow up questions :)
how do i get bloat to take off his pants? thanks
dfn on my chest go baba go
Why do you blood barrage maiden with full hp? Isnt ice better dps since its 100% accuracy. Also for xarpus cant person ahead just burn a tick by skipping a 5t cycle? Sacrificing a scy hit for claw scratch doesnt sound great
Yeah, if either player misses a tick, the other player (who didn't miss one) should do 5.3t until you catch up. If either player misses more ticks than that, it'll take longer/be harder to sync back up. Generally if you're unsynced though, one person doing 5t and the other 5.3t will sync you back up eventually, without having to waste dps on a claw scratch.
Ice is because it has a higher max hit. I think splashes turn into 0 hits, not rerolls. The 100% accuracy doesnt affect DPS if that's how they changed it.
You are right in that Ice > Blood at full hp. I generally assume I take damage to be under 99 by 70s, so it's more so just a habit rather than a conscious decision to Blood there.
In regards to the claw scratch, it's generally meant to be a quick fix if you notice you are 1t ahead of your partner as duo 5t heavily relies on both players being in sync. Ideally, you start and end in sync without any hiccups, but sometimes mistakes happen. For most people, this is a newer method they haven't really practiced, so I would generally advise to switch to 5.3t and make it past xarpus rather than trying to fix it and only making things worse. However, if the players are comfortable with more advanced methods of resyncing, that is perfectly acceptable too. Just depends on the skill level of the team and their experience. Appreciate the questions and hope I could make things a little clearer
What is the name of the plugin you use to see the specials that your partner puts in and damage from the hit
It's called "party" under runelite. Go to the party plugin section of the guide if you want more details on the setup
@@deflnealive5253
no, I ask the plugin so that you can see the hits of your partner's special and when he has active vengans like the minute @36:14
Thanks in advance crack
@@javiergraterol9996 O it's a customizable plugin not on runelite
Hey what plugin do u use to see people their specs?
Party plugin on Runelite
How does ranger start duo 5t? Since the decision to dwh or bgs is based off mager’s specs landing. You showed mage POV but not ranger’s for 5t. Or do you both just double hammer and screw the bgs?
DD with your partner in the middle tile. Scythe 2x and spec once. This will be the first tile xarpus spits on. Meet up with your partner southwest and spec again, then go to the rag tile immediately, which is the second tile xarpus spits on. You are on now synced up with your partner provided neither of you missed ticks.
To showcase this, pay attention to Hawk's scythe animation at the beginning since only he scythes while I'm specing. Notice when the spec counter goes up for the 2nd and 3rd DWH hits as I only hit once (32:20 in the vid). These are when the ranger is supposed to spec.
As for what to spec, it's up to the team as to what you're going for. If you want fastest potential times, then the ranger can always do 2 BGS specs. If you want consistency, I like doing 1 DWH and then whatever you want to do from there. This covers the scenario if the mager misses one. The reason Hawk sent 2 DWH's in this example is because I only hit once. After you hit 2 DWH, BGS and DWH reduces xarpus's defense the same amount on average, so you can use either (again, BGS higher potential, DWH more consistent room time).
Let me know if any of this was confusing or if you have any other questions :)
also, what if you hit no specs at xarpus?
It's rare that this situation comes up (maybe once in 200 raids for me), but when it does, I pray you have a scythe > t bow. As long as you don't completely mess up with your partner (aka rag tiles and take unnecessary damage), you'll be just fine to complete it. If you're dd'ing with a bow, pray you hit as there is a good chance you will wipe lol
thanks :)
where have u been
Burnt since no new endgame content LOL
@@deflnealive5253 :(
Is this possible With only 1 scythe and 1 tbow?
Definitely. Back when Puggin was missing his scythe, he did duo's with Lake using a rapier. I just advise people to get the best possible gear they can to make it easier. Plus, if you're camping TOB, I would suggest scythe > t bow anyways and buy bow back later
How do i learn 5t xarpus?
ruclips.net/video/UttPaSGZ9YU/видео.html if you're just learning in like a 4 man or trio
yo! me and my buddy average around 5 25 total nylo room time, is that decent ? good? bad? thanks for letting me know!
Typically, good teams will average 3.45 for the boss drop. If you can average 4.00, that's not bad for newer duo people or if you're just chilling.
If you're not sure how to see this, scroll to the bottom of the RuneLite plugin page, click on the button that says "Plugin Hub", and then install the "Theatre of Blood Stats" one to show more detailed room times.
5.25 sounds fine though from my experience :)
love you
Why would anyone duo with that shitty party plugin when sockets exists lol
E