I think someone pointed out that "the arcane shots are better than the battlemaster maneuvers so we should make sure it has fewer uses" or something like that after the rest of the class was already designed.
I have some thoughts about the rune knight. You are wearing a weapon. It literally dangles off your belt in a scabbard, typically. I would be offended if the DM decided my giant fighter is slapping around orcs with a toothpick if that isn't what I envisioned my character doing. Maybe if you wanted it to look comical on purpose and that's your character decision, fine. Couldn't be me, I'll play something else then. Second thought, I've never thought the use of a larger weapon was intended. You literally get an extra 1d6 damage with whatever you're doing, including beating them with your fists or stomping on a goblin. That's your oversized weapon. Instead of swinging that sword for 2d6, now its 3d6. Boom, already built in, but for balance purposes, applying this sort of boost once per turn is pretty typical in 5e Also I rank it S tier
I know it's been a few months, but I want to clarify that the extra D6 from giant's might is only added once on your turn. You're attacking 3 or 4 times on your turn, only one is getting the extra d6. Opportunity attack during another creature's turn, no extra d6. Once you start adding in extra attacks, bonus action attack, opportunity attacks, 20 str or dex and a +2 sword; an extra d4 added to all attacks is almost more than the d6 from giant's might, even the increased d8 and d10 from higher levels.
Your channel is by far one of the best I've seen. You give honest options and are quick and to the point. My favorite Character I've ever played was a Purple Dragon Knight and Devotion Paladin Multiclass. I LOVED the Knight of the Order background and how I could play into being a knight who rallied all around me with aura buffs and surges of damage and healing in combat. I'm glad to see that someone else sees how useful it can be. Definitely, no way the same character would have ever existed if Banneret didn't.
An echo knight / barbarian was the most powerful, most game breaking PC I've ever played and I loved it so much. Once popped 100 damage in a single turn @ level 10. Attacking at range. Attacking flying creatures because the echo floats. Teleporting through the echo with a bonus action to tank fast movers and lock them down with the Sentinel feat. I felt like a god of death and war. Oh how I miss her.
I’m currently playing an Echo knight/bear totem barbarian and I pop off well over 100+ damage in a single turn on a regular basis with Action surge and Great weapon master. My record so far is 174
I disagree about eldrich knight. You get defensive and utility spells without needing int at all (thats a lot better than multiclass). Having shield, absorb elements and blur is really powerfull as a fighter and you can still have GWM and full str or Dex build.
It's true that you can build an Eldritch Knight with a low intelligence score, if you only pick spells that don't require your spell casting modifier. It limits you even more than just evocation and abjuration does, but it can be done. Shield and Absorb Elements, Continual Flame and Darkness, Counterspell and Dispel, Fire Shield and Protection from Energy are the most likely candidates. None of those spells require your modifier and are generally useful. Ironically, there are a lot of spells for a martial class that don't need a modifier which are outside of these schools, such as Find Familiar, Misty Step, Haste, and Greater Invisibility. If you choose these spells, you can dump Intelligence and still be effective.
@@greevar there are a lot of options, like vortex warp (for the not abjuration, evocation). Using action surge you could teleport an allie behind your enemy for instant flanking, beat the crap out of that enemy and then your allie is ready to join the fight. Misty step is another good option. Eldrich knight have limitations but you still get the multy attack progression at the same rate as any other fighter.
Had a player whose echo knight fall off a cliff off a mountain bridge while fighting multiple vampires. He bonus action summoned his echo knight having it holding onto the mountain side then again next turn two switch places with it so he could hold onto the ledge. He fought the vampires mid fall by summoning his knight to them as they chased him and swapped places to stake them when he could. Ultimately he made it to the bottom mostly unharmed.
I like your rating on the Psi Warrior. There abilities really help overcome a fighters greatest weaknesses( Mobility and Fear/Charm). Psi-Powered Leap is amazing and helps you deal with flying/hard to reach enemies, Guarded Mind for Fear/Charm is priceless and will help keep you in the fight while other fighters would be useless.
Guarded mind also works better then other end charm effects such as Monks stillness of mind which doesn’t work cause most charm effects makes it so the enemy chooses your action while Guarded mind is a free action.
Don't... don't let Oversized weapons, a function described when building monsters on 278 of the DMG for the player to fight, determine whether or not a player's weapon (held in hand is a form of wearing) scales to their size. Forcing your players to fulfill your own pedantry isn't fun for the player and isn't really fun for you. You may think it is but when no one plays the subclass, and you don't know why it's for that reason. Also clearly Oversized weapons are covered with the improved weapon damage baked into the kit. If a player complains that they should get oversized weapon benefits remind them A) Its an optional rule and B) there are a LOT of things monsters/villains have access to that are not designed for the player characters. But trying to soft nerf a class in the narrative by FORCING player to have a specific type of weapon or going unarmed is just kind of crappy all to avoid an extra dmg die you literally do not have to give them.
Have to disagree with eldritch knight. Not only does it have its place as a fighter with spells, you could dump int and still get great benefits. Even more than that however, if you’re going to multiclass fighter and wizard you get more from it by multiclassing WITH eldritch knight such as more spells, more spell slots, higher level slots to upcast, and abilities that can work really well with other casters. For example their 7th level war caster feature that allows you to attack as a bonus action when casting a cantrip on your action pairing with blade singers unique 6th level extra attack or pairing with some warlock for another attack after an eldritch blast. Giving creatures disadvantage on your spell saves is good for any multiclass also. Overall it’s a very solid fighter by itself and is above almost any other fighter when it comes to multiclassing with casters. Its a great starting point for a “build your own spellblade” character that you can take in many directions, all of them extremely effective with a magical fighter base.
Here’s a little trick with Rune knight, if you have your your weapon stowed before activating Giants might you are technically wearing your weapon so it should grow together with you just like your armor and clothes do.
The part about oversized weapons doesn't work that way for Rune Knight. The rules in the DMG for oversized weapons is advice about how to create stat blocks for a monster using an oversized weapon. It is NOT intended to be applied to player characters that why spells like enlarge and the giant might feature have built in damage bonuses instead. I'm also almost positive that RAI weapons are considered 'worn' but I could see some DMs disagreeing as the wording is ambiguous.
I am pretty sure you are correct about the weapons also getting bigger. It would be silly if they didnt. As you said the Giant's Might damage die is what represents it. Just like Enlarge just gives an extra 1d4. Still done right you can definitely stack some damage bonuses but nothing like oversized weapon shenanigans. Side note I did have players try to loot a Fire Giants Greatsword once. Until they realized it was a 24 foot long blade and weighed almost 400 pounds. Wouldnt even fit in a bag of holding.
For a cheat on oversized weapons for the Rune Knight; take Tavern Brawler for improvised weapons and go to town with your oversized-improvised weapons. Grab that log, congrats you have a 2d8 Giant Club to wallop people with. That said the money with that class is grappling, you can grow to the point you can grapple and drop for pretty massive damage. Also your fists do grow with you and should be oversized weapons.
one of the things I'll say about Champion its value goes up so much when you wield weapons that deal extra dice of damage. I know in Adventurers League, there are plenty of people running around with Dragons Wrath Weapons, Dragon Wing Bow, Dwarven Thrower, or even a Flame Tongue. In those higher tiers especially, there are so many ways to get advantage that Champions do so much damage through their crits.
One of my favorite builds was a Transmutation wizard and then Champion fighter. The wizard is to get Tensers Transformation and paired with better crits and advantage it is juicy. Use blink to shield the slightly squishy wizard body beforehand and its a tad nuts.
Shadow Martyr doesnt swap their places, just teleports the echo beside the creature and takes the attack. So not saving the wiz from a breath weapon. But a single claw attack? Sure.
One thing that is holding the RK back a little is how few runes you get at low levels and how many of the features require a bonus action or reaction. At level 3 you get two runes. Do you go with cloud and fire? Then you won't get the darkvision or charm feature from the stone rune and at higher levels (when more monsters are resistance or immune to charm) the stone rune becomes less useful. At 7th level you get one more rune. Do you pick hill or storm or one of the earlier two that you didn't get? If you get the storm runes, then you won't get the resistances until level 10. If you get the hill rune, then it will take you two turns and use two bonus actions to go large and get the resistances to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing. Yes, at higher levels, the RK becomes really strong, especially at 15th level when you have 5 runes and can activate them twice per short rest and can activate giant's might 5 times per long rest. It's just getting to that level that can drag.
RK has so much going for it. I think through personal experience and what I've read online, most parties experience about 2-3 combats at most a day. Making it very easy for a Rune Knight to have most, if not all their abilities available for most combats. RK brings an unparalleled ability to control the battlefield that no other fighter class really comes close to while probably being the tankiest. Also, probably the best true tank in the game in regard to protecting your allies. Being large, with Runic shield, cloud rune, and storm rune allow many ways to protect your allies that no other fighter or barbarian can match. How many classes or subclasses in the game get to force enemies to make saving throws at disadvantage with really just a reaction? Not many and pretty much no martial classes. I think this video put WAAAAY to much value on an oversized weapon. Yes, RKs aren't the best damage dealers, but they can very well deal out damage just from being a base fighter. I think RK absolutely is better than the Psi warrior and this has that subclass as an S.
I once made a fighter who was dex based, had light armor and two schimitars. Made him a champion at lvl 3. He was a gladiator who went adventuring to prove he was a true fighter and not just a performer. My dnd group still talks about him due to him just being such a fun character. That and the fact he once scored 5 critical hits in a row.
I really like Gish characters, but thanks to you im really excited to play a Cavalier or Psi Warrior next. Arcane Archer and Purple Dragon Knight need a rework, but the concepts are really cool and i would love to play a magic archer if only it didnt suck so much.
I tremendous breakdown of the sub-classes, fun and informative. As a huge fan of the Cavalier, I think the subs on your list are well placed. A bit of tweaking to the Arcance Archer and they can be good. I wish they were better than they are by default, but... that's where a good DM and some experience can kick in and really help it to shine. My 2 cents.
Thank you for giving some love to the Psi-Warrior. Greatly undervalued subclass. Synergy with many things. Our current campaign just hit level 3 and I was able to make our Warlock's Armor of Agathy last for 3 extra hits and pull them out of a suffocation that would have dropped them to 0 and put them unconscious. Can't wait to get psi powered leap as a tabaxi. If I can somehow get a hold of Longstrider and/or mobile the shenanigans will be going strong.
I guarantee you that the arcane archer's two shots per combat is more than the number of times a Champion will crit even once in the typical combat. Also the Grasping Arrow is way better than just getting a crit.
I had to ban the Echo Knight in my game. It was too strong, and honestly I'm not sure if I'm a good enough DM to navigate it. It was also affecting the fun of other players at the table.
Fair. Have you considered DMing it during one shots? That’s how I learned to improve my DMing by allowing just about anything. Fun for the players and I get to see powerful shit n time to think how to interact with it in the future while minimizing meta gaming
How? Is your table super unoptimized? Or did the echo knight player constantly try to do gamebreaky stuff with the echo that wasn't conducive to the game being played? Personally I am currently playing an echo knight in a CoS game and it seems fine. We are lv5 and the only thing that seems like it might be an "issue" is the 6 attacks in one turn I can do with action surge + 2 unleash incarnations, that is however just one dead enemy and only once per long rest. The echo finds itself regularly getting killed which absorbs some damage but also restricts my movement. Echo knight is still a fighter at the end of the day and mostly relegated to fighting the big target, once you add a lot of small targets or 2+ medium targets it will stop outshining others and mostly be average. Currently we are fighting a horde encounter with 2 casters and its pretty miserable as all I can hope to do is assassinate one caster or at least break concentration, the rest is 100% on my team to mop up. Building encounters with a bit of cannon fodder, 2+ medium targets and maybe 1 big guy that all pose as threats in combination helps make the game a lot more balanced. Fighters exist to oneshot something, make sure that doesnt end the encounter on its own.
I may try a psi warrior. I also really like what I call the student of war multiclass: Fighter 1, Wizard 1 (booming blade, shield, GFB or mage hand , Chill touch, absorb elements, feather fall, find familiar) , Forge Cleric 1 (bless/ healing word) , Samulrai 5, War wizard 2, Samulrai 7 (make your own magic bow, heal in combat, use arcane magic in combat, have Wis saves for free, of, and be an Elf for elven accuracy. )
Eldricht knight in my opinion is better than multiclass (the majority of times) for these reasons: - You keep gaining extra attacks from fighter levels. - You have better hit dices. - You keep gaining extra ASI as a fighter. - You aren't required to reach 13 Int, so better ability scores all around. So for me, you must have a really precise reason to choose a multiclass build instead of playing Eldricht knight if you want the Gish fighter, because the trade-off is big.
One choses Eldritch Knight because if you know your campaign isn't going to a high level, you get to progress normally as a fighter with your ASIs and subclass features while still adding some spell casting. If, instead, you multiclass, you get a few fighter levels, a few caster levels, a few more fighter levels, a couple more caster levels and do a slow seesaw progression between the two classes. Or you take 1 level of fighter, then all the caster levels you want, and then come back to fighter later. Or, you get your extra attack as a fighter first, and then finally get spells to cast at 6th level. Eldritch Knight smooths all that out but sacrifices strong spell casting to do so. No, it isn't the best fighter. No, it isn't the best gish. But it isn't terrible, either, given that the fighter's extra ASIs can let you pick up feats like Ritual Caster to add a bit more arcane flavor.
Lvl 6 echo/6 undead warlock and I solo'd an adult green dragon. In it's lair. Ok, the rogue used ONE dragon slayer arrow. Green dragon use lots of crowd control by reducing mobility. Doesn't work on echo. Dragon breath? Had poison resistance. Melee attack me? Had mirror image. And I flanked it all the time with the echo. Wanted to get away? Eldritch blast with grasp of hadar
The Champion is fine for starting out, but I think the Barbarian is better for new players. Simpler play style, interesting options that are easy to pick from, and you get to Rage.
How bad do you think new players are? If you properly start new players at lv1 in a beginner adventure they will be pretty familiar with their class by the time they need to pick a subclass. Also a new player who picks champion will want to change subclass once he gets just a bit more into the game.
my friend and i were thinking of renaming samurai "Oathsworn", as a knight-esque martial who swears fealty to a lord or some other noble. Our reasoning: Clerics are devoted to their deity Warlocks serve their greater being Paladins are devoted to their ideal or cause Samurai (or oathsworn) are devoted to a ruler or person of noble standing, which ultimately sets them apart from paladins and those other folks.
Eldritck Knight is awesome! Multi-classing fighter to any other subclass limits. Both 5th edition dungeons& dragons handicaps, multi-class characters and weapon bond is by far the best feature I think any class gets except of hex blade course and that's so classes for people who are more fighter than wizard. And if you want to play more wizard then fighter just play a blade singer
Oh my, I was so excited about the potential for big damage as a Rune Knight that I overlooked all the hoops I'd have to jump through. It may mot be as good as Cavalier/Ancestral Guardian for a tank role, but a Rune Knight/Totem Warrior could still be a fun tank. If all else fails, theres always homebrew (Warden from Valda's Spire of Secrets) or Soulknife 13/Echo Knight 7.
I played a Goliath 8 Ancestral Guardian Barbarian/6 Rune Knight Fighter in a campaign and he was a fantastic tank and DPS character. Even without an oversized weapon, the Rune Knight is a powerful subclass and I really think deserves to be at the top of A tier or bottom of S tier for both its damage and tanking abilities in addition to having the continuous advantage on various skills that the runes provide from their passive abilities
Obviously this is dm dependant and up for interpretation, but before I get into this I want to preference that I do agree with your statement that you have to find an oversized weapon of course to even use the entire thing for rune knight as you stated. However stated that you wouldn't be able to store it in a bag of holding I don't think is correct. It states that it holds a volume of 64 cubic ft. It doesn't state its diameter so I take it as more the volume it holds and not its physical 4x4x4 that it would be. As of said oversized weapons total volume would be melted down like water and that total space is counted. Otherwise other things you wouldn't even normally think of like a basic javelin wouldn't be able to fit in, as historically found javelin were found to be at some of their smallest 1.83 meters (about 6 ft) long which if your going by the 4x4x4 box wouldn't fit, yet nearly no dm would even question a player putting it into the bag of holding (though I will say part of that reason is they just don't really know how big the actual dimensions are in real life). But I will say that of course my thought process of it speaking of the total volume of said objects it can carry instead of their actual lengths and widths are my personal view on it and you may view it differently. But that's at least how I see it since it speaks of volume in its description instead of telling you it's diameter or that it would be a 4x4x4 box inside. However that's the only gripe I have with that, still agree with where you put the rune knight, just wanted to give my 2 cents on that very minor part in an otherwise, in my opinion, amazing video. Just food for thought is all and would love a discussion further on the subject, of course my opinion could be changed given further discussion on your personal views on how the bag of holding is intended
Random aside half a year later, but a 6 foot javelin could actually fit in a 4×4×4 space if you place one end in the bottom corner and the other in the opposite top corner, with about a foot of leeway. Pythagoras strikes once again
@@winter945 never really studied that personally, I'll have to take your word for it. I appreciate the comment even after all this time later though! With that being said it is just one of the many potential things people could put in there with the issue of length and the like
In my personal opinion, the Eldritch Knight is for new players who want to delve into magic, or players who want to play a battlemage without having to mutliclass.
I think champion is better for multiclass rather than as a main class. Give those improved crit chances to paladins, barbarians, or rogues, those who can capitalize on doubling crit chances, then it makes a huge difference.
I definitely think you’re under rating the Eldritch Knight. The Shield spell along with enough spell slots to use it whenever you get surrounded puts you in the front of the pack defensively. War Magic also combo’s really well with the SCAG blade cantrips to deal incredible damage in the mid game. Sure, War Magic falls off at 11th level, but there’s not even a guarantee you’ll hit that level. I consider the Eldritch Knight an easy A tier and I’d recommend it to most players.
Great advice... Find a Subclass you love and enjoy playing. I just started playing a few months ago and fell back to my favorite character that's very easy to play, the Monk. Once that campaign wrapped up, I took a week to look over EVERY possible class, race, etc... I don't even like fighters. In my 6 years playing D&D Online, I would splash a fighter, but NEVER played a pure fighter, so I barely even looked at the Fighters and Sub-Classes on D&D Beyond. As I'm poking around, I drop down all the options for each class. Out of no where I see this "Echo Knight". I'm like... "Oh man, what the bleep is this and how bad is it going to be?". ?????????? It can do what??? and what??? Are you bleeping serious??? I then talked to my GM/DM and he said it's kinda OP, so some GM's/DM's won't even allow it in the campaign, but he's never seen one played so he let me build one at level 6. Whoops. I join Strahd and show up brandishing Heavy Black Plate and weapons all over my back and side. The party is like... oh great, a fighter. I smile to myself... "Yup, I'm a fighter". I didn't tell them I'm a Shardar-Kai - 5 Echo Knight / 1 Light Cleric and do NOT need them in the party. The first fight, I roll low in initiative, so everyone runs up and engages in combat. On my turn, I move my full movement and then 'pop' out a Shadow of me, right in front of the main bad guy. Everyone is like... what is that? On the next turn I swap places with my shadow and then move my echo to the other side, adjacent the bad guy, wink and then attack from my Echo's spot 2 times. Everyone (including the bad guy) are like... ?????????? I smile and next turn. The bad guy tries to attack me, but I use Warding Flare and he's at disadvantage. He misses and everyone else attacks. Then I swap back and forth on my next 2 attacks and everyone is confused. By this time the bad guy is panicking and tries to force an escape. Whoops... Opportunity attack from my shadow and he's down. Let's just say for a shorter read that this happened on the next fight as well. After we are done, the main DPS guy from before I joined is like... What the Bleep just happened and Wow, that was amazing. He managed to have so many free attacks while flanking, the rogue was sneak attacking and the bad guys didn't hit me or my Echo even once. After 1 short battle the team looks at me and follows my lead... well, they actually follow my Echo who is always out in front of me (by 30'). I don't like fighters, but this build is SOOOOOO much fun. Wait until I get my next level and I get the Sentinel feat! ahahahahahahahahahaha... IT'S OVER! Game is broken now. Great ranking. Nicely done.
Arcane archer does not end up being as bad as you make it out to be, only white room theorycrafting as youre so fond of putting it. I will say, however, that in my experience where it really shines is taking only 3 levels in fighter for the AA and 2 special arrows as a multiclass for a Ranger. Did this in a high level Tyranny of Dragons campaign with a Monsted Slayer and Oh boy did that combo pay dividends.
So an Echo-knight Paladin essentially has a ranged smite. Sounds awesome. Pair it with Conquest paladin or Vengeance paladin and oh boy are we having fun.
@@enterthedungeon I know right? I love how it is even stated by the creators that Manifest Echo doesn't specify that it has to be on a solid surface. You can manifest your echo in mid-air or on water, ect. It's more versatile than what people initially think about.
Man I wish there was a better, more interesting version of Arcane Archer. Yes, there are some reworks in forums (and the Revised UA version), but in my opinion they are not really interesting, they are all just about shooting an arrow that has a spell's effect attached to it. And you shoot those arrows like 2-3 times per short rest and then you are just a ranged fighter without a subclass. How about giving Arcane Archer unique features, like being able to shoot magic arrows from a different direction, shooting an arrow that teleports you to its location or makes the hit target swap places with you? The ability to split your arrow magically to do less damage but to multiple targets? Or giving passive effects like the paladin, maybe you can help your allies hit targets better or stop/divert enemy projectiles (and projectile-based spells). Get funky. Don't just make it "this arrow explodes, that arrow freezes the target, this one frightens it, this one you can use to wallbang enemies". When I hear "Arcane Archer", I immediately have to think of the Magick Archer in Dragon's Dogma. It's such an insanely fun, unique class. And I am sure you could make something similar unique in DnD 5e.
Eldritch knight could also work in low Magic campaign, if magic still exists but full casters aren’t available as an option Eldritch knight might due to being 1/3 casters and being extremely limited in their choices really giving them that low magic setting feeling.
Arcane archer, have curving arrows so you can redirect your misses. They still aren't great and need more shots, they are still as good if not better than purple knights.
IMHO: - *Eldritch Knight* is at least B tier. It is the best defensive fighter without multiclassing, and using a simple half-feat such as fey touched you get mobility and acces to hunters mark, which significally improves your dps - *Psi warrior* is not that great. Sounds good on paper but is pretty meh on the actual play - Arcane archer is actually decent if you pick the right trick shots. - *Echo Knight* is by far the strongest fighter mecanically, due to maneuverability.
If you use an action to let your echo throw an alchemist fire, does you lose a flask of alchemist fire? Because you could really cheese thing if it don't cost anything for an echo to throw things.
Doesn't work like that. When your echo "attacks" you're the one making the attack from the echo's position. So it's your weapon actually hitting the target. Likewise, with thrown weapons/items you actually throw them, they just originate from the echo's position. So yes, your thrown items are lost.
Your point about about oversized swords is a bit stupid, 10 Feet is not that big, Zwielhanders & Odachis (Big Katanas) were 7 Feet, & a Pike could be up to 15 Feet. Also the Blade Width of Guts Sword is stupidly unrealistic, the Average Longsword Blade Width was 1.75 inches so an Oversized Longsword blade would be 3 Inches Wide, thats really not that big a deal. Sure it would make you noticible but not much more than any Large Two Handed Weapon.
I strongly disagree with the "champions are bland and vanilla, made for new players only" narrative. My favorite multiclass synergies are barbarian + champion for reckless attacks and increased critical, and rogue + champion with elven accuracy for a mountain of sneak attack dice. 😅
You're insane, Eldritch Knight is better than you give it credit for. Eldritch Knight has access to one of the few abilities in the game that imposes disadvantage on saving throws. You can cast blindness, or even better: hold person, and just cc lock the shit out of an enemy.
Hmmm, I'm not a tech guy sadly. I've gotten a few hundred downloads so I know its working. If you would like, send an email to enterthedonjon@gmail.com and I can email you a copy of the PDF.
I hate Echo Knight so much. They are always banned in my games. It just pisses me off too much that they have the ability to teleport with a frequency that only a Level 18 Wizard who specifically chose Misty Step as their 2nd Level Spell Mastery can match. It's an abomination, and I hate it even more than Hex Blade(1/2)/Paladin(+) builds.
Battle Master would be more fun if you could use your abilities more per day. "QUICK! TRIP ATTACK THE ENEMY!" "I CAN'T I ALREADY DID THAT A FEW TIMES TODAY AND FORGOT HOW UNTIL TOMORROW!"
I disagree strongly about the echo Knight. Sure its powerful, but its badly written with multiple abilities which the give the GM no help in interpreting them. If the player interprets them favorably "my echo is not a creature, so its immune to fireball!" And the GM views that differently, you now have a table problem you ahouldnt be having. And the class is littered with these problems- Can it fly? Can you use multiple uses of unleashed incarnation in one turn (I agree that rules as written you can, but i think its bad for game play to have a character storing them all to unleash 10 attacks on a boss while hasted). This is exactly what i don't want from a subclass. I'm a Critical Role fan but unfortunately i think Matt's aura of mystique and privileged postion of having a table of fairly compliant players does not put him in a good position to design a character class.
Most of that is solved by sitting down with your players and actually having them agree to how the game should be played so everyone can have fun. I think its fine to allow the echo to go in the air if that isn't exploited but its also fine to put your foot down and say no thats not ok and wont work at my table. Echo being an object and not a creature thus being immune to spells is also something that can just be decided upon early on, the thing dies pretty fast anyway so either ruling isn't super impactful. Unleash incarnation is the only really problematic aspect as it just lets you get a lot more attacks early compared to others. But compared to other DnD characters its not that big of an issue. Everyone does broken stuff and fighter doesn't do much besides damage. Don't build your encounters around 1 big monster or caster and instead split them up into multiple and it will be fine. Your issue seems to be more with players stepping out of the designated play area and derailing the campaign by not understanding that the DM prepared a certain amount of content for this session.
Hey, thanks for the reply :) So I agree that it can be handled, and as you say, you can sit down with a player and explain how you are going to rule it at your table. Which I have done, and I have these rules up on my Discord server for my professional games, which I run 4 nights a week. But imagine for a moment, that there wasn't one subclass like this, let say there were 2 for each class. 24 subclasses where the rules were unclear or overpowered due to poor wording. Am I supposed to go through each of them with everyone who sits down at my table, shoot down character concept after character concept? All with the feel bad "No"? So I agree the problems are manageable, but I have an issue with parts of the system that require this much oversight from the GM.
The Battle Master is overrated honestly. It’s on the same C Tier as Champion and Purple Dragon Knight. It opens up more basic actions and some outside combat utility but that’s it. The Champion, Battle Master and Purple Dragon Knight features, should have been the basic fighter features.
Can’t tell if the list is bait or what lol psy over BM is a tough sell. Rune knight dropped to B cause of oversized weapons? Typical Echo Knight propaganda while admitting to why it’s not half the sin people portray. If you think a fighter subclass with a lvl 1 find familiar they can attack from and swap with is THAT strong “youre wrong, youre just wrong” lol and boyo is your little head gonna spin when you see what any spell caster can do compared in every vector bar damage (only at exactly level 5 tho) The myth is thoroughly busted by now please please god let me get a single video talking about echo fighters where someone claiming to DM them actually has!
I'd say that suggesting a samurai to a first-time fighter player is not a bad choice, he'd have just an extra bonus action that grants a similar benefit (from a mathematical standpoint) and more. Plus I think that the feeling of rolling that many dices is enticing to a new player. I knew from the start that echo knight was going to be set in a ranking of its own!
Depends on the player! Honestly some players I have no problem starting off with a Battle Master or Rune Knight if they have a history with TTRPGs. Others struggle to even use bonus actions and comprehend temporary hit points. If I'm not sure where a player lies, I recommend Champion (really my Vanquisher) and offer to change the subclass if they want something a bit more complex. Samurai is a great option though for many!
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Arcane archer just screams: developers didnt wanna give a dedicated range attacker too much power because it be "unbalance."
Then they created the gloomstalker😔
I think someone pointed out that "the arcane shots are better than the battlemaster maneuvers so we should make sure it has fewer uses" or something like that after the rest of the class was already designed.
Samurai can make a pretty great archer. Probably better at range
I have some thoughts about the rune knight. You are wearing a weapon. It literally dangles off your belt in a scabbard, typically. I would be offended if the DM decided my giant fighter is slapping around orcs with a toothpick if that isn't what I envisioned my character doing. Maybe if you wanted it to look comical on purpose and that's your character decision, fine. Couldn't be me, I'll play something else then.
Second thought, I've never thought the use of a larger weapon was intended. You literally get an extra 1d6 damage with whatever you're doing, including beating them with your fists or stomping on a goblin. That's your oversized weapon. Instead of swinging that sword for 2d6, now its 3d6. Boom, already built in, but for balance purposes, applying this sort of boost once per turn is pretty typical in 5e
Also I rank it S tier
I know it's been a few months, but I want to clarify that the extra D6 from giant's might is only added once on your turn.
You're attacking 3 or 4 times on your turn, only one is getting the extra d6. Opportunity attack during another creature's turn, no extra d6.
Once you start adding in extra attacks, bonus action attack, opportunity attacks, 20 str or dex and a +2 sword; an extra d4 added to all attacks is almost more than the d6 from giant's might, even the increased d8 and d10 from higher levels.
S tier for sure.
Your channel is by far one of the best I've seen. You give honest options and are quick and to the point.
My favorite Character I've ever played was a Purple Dragon Knight and Devotion Paladin Multiclass. I LOVED the Knight of the Order background and how I could play into being a knight who rallied all around me with aura buffs and surges of damage and healing in combat. I'm glad to see that someone else sees how useful it can be. Definitely, no way the same character would have ever existed if Banneret didn't.
An echo knight / barbarian was the most powerful, most game breaking PC I've ever played and I loved it so much. Once popped 100 damage in a single turn @ level 10. Attacking at range. Attacking flying creatures because the echo floats. Teleporting through the echo with a bonus action to tank fast movers and lock them down with the Sentinel feat. I felt like a god of death and war. Oh how I miss her.
I’m currently playing an Echo knight/bear totem barbarian and I pop off well over 100+ damage in a single turn on a regular basis with Action surge and Great weapon master. My record so far is 174
I disagree about eldrich knight.
You get defensive and utility spells without needing int at all (thats a lot better than multiclass). Having shield, absorb elements and blur is really powerfull as a fighter and you can still have GWM and full str or Dex build.
All good, different perspectives make the community stronger! Thank you for commenting.
@@enterthedungeongood content by he way, I enjoy seeing other people opinion about this kind of things. Keep going
It's true that you can build an Eldritch Knight with a low intelligence score, if you only pick spells that don't require your spell casting modifier. It limits you even more than just evocation and abjuration does, but it can be done. Shield and Absorb Elements, Continual Flame and Darkness, Counterspell and Dispel, Fire Shield and Protection from Energy are the most likely candidates. None of those spells require your modifier and are generally useful. Ironically, there are a lot of spells for a martial class that don't need a modifier which are outside of these schools, such as Find Familiar, Misty Step, Haste, and Greater Invisibility.
If you choose these spells, you can dump Intelligence and still be effective.
I am actually looking at this as a scheme for my 8 int monk to get arcane magic.
@@greevar there are a lot of options, like vortex warp (for the not abjuration, evocation). Using action surge you could teleport an allie behind your enemy for instant flanking, beat the crap out of that enemy and then your allie is ready to join the fight. Misty step is another good option.
Eldrich knight have limitations but you still get the multy attack progression at the same rate as any other fighter.
Had a player whose echo knight fall off a cliff off a mountain bridge while fighting multiple vampires. He bonus action summoned his echo knight having it holding onto the mountain side then again next turn two switch places with it so he could hold onto the ledge. He fought the vampires mid fall by summoning his knight to them as they chased him and swapped places to stake them when he could. Ultimately he made it to the bottom mostly unharmed.
I like your rating on the Psi Warrior. There abilities really help overcome a fighters greatest weaknesses( Mobility and Fear/Charm). Psi-Powered Leap is amazing and helps you deal with flying/hard to reach enemies, Guarded Mind for Fear/Charm is priceless and will help keep you in the fight while other fighters would be useless.
Guarded mind also works better then other end charm effects such as Monks stillness of mind which doesn’t work cause most charm effects makes it so the enemy chooses your action while Guarded mind is a free action.
Don't... don't let Oversized weapons, a function described when building monsters on 278 of the DMG for the player to fight, determine whether or not a player's weapon (held in hand is a form of wearing) scales to their size. Forcing your players to fulfill your own pedantry isn't fun for the player and isn't really fun for you. You may think it is but when no one plays the subclass, and you don't know why it's for that reason. Also clearly Oversized weapons are covered with the improved weapon damage baked into the kit. If a player complains that they should get oversized weapon benefits remind them A) Its an optional rule and B) there are a LOT of things monsters/villains have access to that are not designed for the player characters. But trying to soft nerf a class in the narrative by FORCING player to have a specific type of weapon or going unarmed is just kind of crappy all to avoid an extra dmg die you literally do not have to give them.
Have to disagree with eldritch knight. Not only does it have its place as a fighter with spells, you could dump int and still get great benefits. Even more than that however, if you’re going to multiclass fighter and wizard you get more from it by multiclassing WITH eldritch knight such as more spells, more spell slots, higher level slots to upcast, and abilities that can work really well with other casters. For example their 7th level war caster feature that allows you to attack as a bonus action when casting a cantrip on your action pairing with blade singers unique 6th level extra attack or pairing with some warlock for another attack after an eldritch blast. Giving creatures disadvantage on your spell saves is good for any multiclass also.
Overall it’s a very solid fighter by itself and is above almost any other fighter when it comes to multiclassing with casters. Its a great starting point for a “build your own spellblade” character that you can take in many directions, all of them extremely effective with a magical fighter base.
Who says you NEED an oversized weapon for a Rune Knight. Sure it does more damage, but it's playable fine without it.
He completely ignored the utility from the Rune Knight.
Here’s a little trick with Rune knight, if you have your your weapon stowed before activating Giants might you are technically wearing your weapon so it should grow together with you just like your armor and clothes do.
The part about oversized weapons doesn't work that way for Rune Knight. The rules in the DMG for oversized weapons is advice about how to create stat blocks for a monster using an oversized weapon. It is NOT intended to be applied to player characters that why spells like enlarge and the giant might feature have built in damage bonuses instead. I'm also almost positive that RAI weapons are considered 'worn' but I could see some DMs disagreeing as the wording is ambiguous.
I am pretty sure you are correct about the weapons also getting bigger. It would be silly if they didnt. As you said the Giant's Might damage die is what represents it. Just like Enlarge just gives an extra 1d4. Still done right you can definitely stack some damage bonuses but nothing like oversized weapon shenanigans.
Side note I did have players try to loot a Fire Giants Greatsword once. Until they realized it was a 24 foot long blade and weighed almost 400 pounds. Wouldnt even fit in a bag of holding.
For a cheat on oversized weapons for the Rune Knight; take Tavern Brawler for improvised weapons and go to town with your oversized-improvised weapons. Grab that log, congrats you have a 2d8 Giant Club to wallop people with. That said the money with that class is grappling, you can grow to the point you can grapple and drop for pretty massive damage. Also your fists do grow with you and should be oversized weapons.
one of the things I'll say about Champion its value goes up so much when you wield weapons that deal extra dice of damage. I know in Adventurers League, there are plenty of people running around with Dragons Wrath Weapons, Dragon Wing Bow, Dwarven Thrower, or even a Flame Tongue. In those higher tiers especially, there are so many ways to get advantage that Champions do so much damage through their crits.
One of my favorite builds was a Transmutation wizard and then Champion fighter. The wizard is to get Tensers Transformation and paired with better crits and advantage it is juicy. Use blink to shield the slightly squishy wizard body beforehand and its a tad nuts.
Look out in the future for the vote where we'll decide what the next class will be for this series. I want to hear what y'all want to see next!
I'm biased, but the cleric, druid, and warlock classes are always the ones that catch my attention the fastest.
It's Monk time.
Shadow Martyr doesnt swap their places, just teleports the echo beside the creature and takes the attack. So not saving the wiz from a breath weapon. But a single claw attack? Sure.
One thing that is holding the RK back a little is how few runes you get at low levels and how many of the features require a bonus action or reaction.
At level 3 you get two runes. Do you go with cloud and fire? Then you won't get the darkvision or charm feature from the stone rune and at higher levels (when more monsters are resistance or immune to charm) the stone rune becomes less useful.
At 7th level you get one more rune. Do you pick hill or storm or one of the earlier two that you didn't get? If you get the storm runes, then you won't get the resistances until level 10. If you get the hill rune, then it will take you two turns and use two bonus actions to go large and get the resistances to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing.
Yes, at higher levels, the RK becomes really strong, especially at 15th level when you have 5 runes and can activate them twice per short rest and can activate giant's might 5 times per long rest. It's just getting to that level that can drag.
RK has so much going for it. I think through personal experience and what I've read online, most parties experience about 2-3 combats at most a day. Making it very easy for a Rune Knight to have most, if not all their abilities available for most combats. RK brings an unparalleled ability to control the battlefield that no other fighter class really comes close to while probably being the tankiest. Also, probably the best true tank in the game in regard to protecting your allies. Being large, with Runic shield, cloud rune, and storm rune allow many ways to protect your allies that no other fighter or barbarian can match.
How many classes or subclasses in the game get to force enemies to make saving throws at disadvantage with really just a reaction? Not many and pretty much no martial classes.
I think this video put WAAAAY to much value on an oversized weapon. Yes, RKs aren't the best damage dealers, but they can very well deal out damage just from being a base fighter. I think RK absolutely is better than the Psi warrior and this has that subclass as an S.
I think that may have partially been my fault as I got excited by the idea of using an oversized weapon in the comments on his RK video.
I once made a fighter who was dex based, had light armor and two schimitars. Made him a champion at lvl 3. He was a gladiator who went adventuring to prove he was a true fighter and not just a performer. My dnd group still talks about him due to him just being such a fun character. That and the fact he once scored 5 critical hits in a row.
I really like Gish characters, but thanks to you im really excited to play a Cavalier or Psi Warrior next.
Arcane Archer and Purple Dragon Knight need a rework, but the concepts are really cool and i would love to play a magic archer if only it didnt suck so much.
Got upset with your rank for Rune Knight, but at least you prefer Echo over Battlemaster
This video is awesome, and I absolutely expect more subs coming your way.
I tremendous breakdown of the sub-classes, fun and informative. As a huge fan of the Cavalier, I think the subs on your list are well placed. A bit of tweaking to the Arcance Archer and they can be good. I wish they were better than they are by default, but... that's where a good DM and some experience can kick in and really help it to shine. My 2 cents.
Thank you for giving some love to the Psi-Warrior. Greatly undervalued subclass. Synergy with many things. Our current campaign just hit level 3 and I was able to make our Warlock's Armor of Agathy last for 3 extra hits and pull them out of a suffocation that would have dropped them to 0 and put them unconscious. Can't wait to get psi powered leap as a tabaxi. If I can somehow get a hold of Longstrider and/or mobile the shenanigans will be going strong.
I guarantee you that the arcane archer's two shots per combat is more than the number of times a Champion will crit even once in the typical combat. Also the Grasping Arrow is way better than just getting a crit.
Thank you, arcane archer is so underrated.
I had to ban the Echo Knight in my game. It was too strong, and honestly I'm not sure if I'm a good enough DM to navigate it.
It was also affecting the fun of other players at the table.
Fair. Have you considered DMing it during one shots? That’s how I learned to improve my DMing by allowing just about anything. Fun for the players and I get to see powerful shit n time to think how to interact with it in the future while minimizing meta gaming
How? Is your table super unoptimized? Or did the echo knight player constantly try to do gamebreaky stuff with the echo that wasn't conducive to the game being played?
Personally I am currently playing an echo knight in a CoS game and it seems fine.
We are lv5 and the only thing that seems like it might be an "issue" is the 6 attacks in one turn I can do with action surge + 2 unleash incarnations, that is however just one dead enemy and only once per long rest.
The echo finds itself regularly getting killed which absorbs some damage but also restricts my movement.
Echo knight is still a fighter at the end of the day and mostly relegated to fighting the big target, once you add a lot of small targets or 2+ medium targets it will stop outshining others and mostly be average.
Currently we are fighting a horde encounter with 2 casters and its pretty miserable as all I can hope to do is assassinate one caster or at least break concentration, the rest is 100% on my team to mop up.
Building encounters with a bit of cannon fodder, 2+ medium targets and maybe 1 big guy that all pose as threats in combination helps make the game a lot more balanced. Fighters exist to oneshot something, make sure that doesnt end the encounter on its own.
I may try a psi warrior.
I also really like what I call the student of war multiclass: Fighter 1, Wizard 1 (booming blade, shield, GFB or mage hand , Chill touch, absorb elements, feather fall, find familiar) , Forge Cleric 1 (bless/ healing word) , Samulrai 5, War wizard 2, Samulrai 7 (make your own magic bow, heal in combat, use arcane magic in combat, have Wis saves for free, of, and be an Elf for elven accuracy. )
A really nice fix to eldritch knight I’ve seen is literally just letting you smite using elemental damage types
I'm just bitter that Bladesinger's extra attack wasn't given to the Eldritch Knight as well.
Eldricht knight in my opinion is better than multiclass (the majority of times) for these reasons:
- You keep gaining extra attacks from fighter levels.
- You have better hit dices.
- You keep gaining extra ASI as a fighter.
- You aren't required to reach 13 Int, so better ability scores all around.
So for me, you must have a really precise reason to choose a multiclass build instead of playing Eldricht knight if you want the Gish fighter, because the trade-off is big.
You've intrigued me with this Vanquisher homebrew
One choses Eldritch Knight because if you know your campaign isn't going to a high level, you get to progress normally as a fighter with your ASIs and subclass features while still adding some spell casting. If, instead, you multiclass, you get a few fighter levels, a few caster levels, a few more fighter levels, a couple more caster levels and do a slow seesaw progression between the two classes. Or you take 1 level of fighter, then all the caster levels you want, and then come back to fighter later. Or, you get your extra attack as a fighter first, and then finally get spells to cast at 6th level. Eldritch Knight smooths all that out but sacrifices strong spell casting to do so. No, it isn't the best fighter. No, it isn't the best gish. But it isn't terrible, either, given that the fighter's extra ASIs can let you pick up feats like Ritual Caster to add a bit more arcane flavor.
Lvl 6 echo/6 undead warlock and I solo'd an adult green dragon. In it's lair. Ok, the rogue used ONE dragon slayer arrow.
Green dragon use lots of crowd control by reducing mobility. Doesn't work on echo. Dragon breath? Had poison resistance. Melee attack me? Had mirror image. And I flanked it all the time with the echo. Wanted to get away? Eldritch blast with grasp of hadar
The Champion is fine for starting out, but I think the Barbarian is better for new players. Simpler play style, interesting options that are easy to pick from, and you get to Rage.
Agreed, plus the barbarian is actually fun both in and out of combat.
How bad do you think new players are? If you properly start new players at lv1 in a beginner adventure they will be pretty familiar with their class by the time they need to pick a subclass. Also a new player who picks champion will want to change subclass once he gets just a bit more into the game.
I like the idea of champion as a simple fighter because I think it's good for pick up and play kinda scenarios
my friend and i were thinking of renaming samurai "Oathsworn", as a knight-esque martial who swears fealty to a lord or some other noble. Our reasoning:
Clerics are devoted to their deity
Warlocks serve their greater being
Paladins are devoted to their ideal or cause
Samurai (or oathsworn) are devoted to a ruler or person of noble standing, which ultimately sets them apart from paladins and those other folks.
I love this name, thanks for commenting!
I really want arcane archer to be good it's such a great concept
The arcane shots are so fun! I hope it gets an official overhaul
Eldritck Knight is awesome! Multi-classing fighter to any other subclass limits. Both 5th edition dungeons& dragons handicaps, multi-class characters and weapon bond is by far the best feature I think any class gets except of hex blade course and that's so classes for people who are more fighter than wizard. And if you want to play more wizard then fighter just play a blade singer
Rune Knight size adjustment: Use a spear or other pole arm. Have extra replacement poles.
Oh my, I was so excited about the potential for big damage as a Rune Knight that I overlooked all the hoops I'd have to jump through. It may mot be as good as Cavalier/Ancestral Guardian for a tank role, but a Rune Knight/Totem Warrior could still be a fun tank.
If all else fails, theres always homebrew (Warden from Valda's Spire of Secrets) or Soulknife 13/Echo Knight 7.
I played a Goliath 8 Ancestral Guardian Barbarian/6 Rune Knight Fighter in a campaign and he was a fantastic tank and DPS character. Even without an oversized weapon, the Rune Knight is a powerful subclass and I really think deserves to be at the top of A tier or bottom of S tier for both its damage and tanking abilities in addition to having the continuous advantage on various skills that the runes provide from their passive abilities
Obviously this is dm dependant and up for interpretation, but before I get into this I want to preference that I do agree with your statement that you have to find an oversized weapon of course to even use the entire thing for rune knight as you stated. However stated that you wouldn't be able to store it in a bag of holding I don't think is correct. It states that it holds a volume of 64 cubic ft. It doesn't state its diameter so I take it as more the volume it holds and not its physical 4x4x4 that it would be. As of said oversized weapons total volume would be melted down like water and that total space is counted. Otherwise other things you wouldn't even normally think of like a basic javelin wouldn't be able to fit in, as historically found javelin were found to be at some of their smallest 1.83 meters (about 6 ft) long which if your going by the 4x4x4 box wouldn't fit, yet nearly no dm would even question a player putting it into the bag of holding (though I will say part of that reason is they just don't really know how big the actual dimensions are in real life). But I will say that of course my thought process of it speaking of the total volume of said objects it can carry instead of their actual lengths and widths are my personal view on it and you may view it differently. But that's at least how I see it since it speaks of volume in its description instead of telling you it's diameter or that it would be a 4x4x4 box inside.
However that's the only gripe I have with that, still agree with where you put the rune knight, just wanted to give my 2 cents on that very minor part in an otherwise, in my opinion, amazing video. Just food for thought is all and would love a discussion further on the subject, of course my opinion could be changed given further discussion on your personal views on how the bag of holding is intended
Random aside half a year later, but a 6 foot javelin could actually fit in a 4×4×4 space if you place one end in the bottom corner and the other in the opposite top corner, with about a foot of leeway. Pythagoras strikes once again
@@winter945 never really studied that personally, I'll have to take your word for it. I appreciate the comment even after all this time later though! With that being said it is just one of the many potential things people could put in there with the issue of length and the like
Can you make rangers or monks next? Also, great content you make me love druids and they are my favorite class. Regards from Mexico;)
In my personal opinion, the Eldritch Knight is for new players who want to delve into magic, or players who want to play a battlemage without having to mutliclass.
I think champion is better for multiclass rather than as a main class. Give those improved crit chances to paladins, barbarians, or rogues, those who can capitalize on doubling crit chances, then it makes a huge difference.
I definitely think you’re under rating the Eldritch Knight. The Shield spell along with enough spell slots to use it whenever you get surrounded puts you in the front of the pack defensively. War Magic also combo’s really well with the SCAG blade cantrips to deal incredible damage in the mid game. Sure, War Magic falls off at 11th level, but there’s not even a guarantee you’ll hit that level. I consider the Eldritch Knight an easy A tier and I’d recommend it to most players.
Thanks for the content .
Great advice... Find a Subclass you love and enjoy playing. I just started playing a few months ago and fell back to my favorite character that's very easy to play, the Monk. Once that campaign wrapped up, I took a week to look over EVERY possible class, race, etc... I don't even like fighters. In my 6 years playing D&D Online, I would splash a fighter, but NEVER played a pure fighter, so I barely even looked at the Fighters and Sub-Classes on D&D Beyond. As I'm poking around, I drop down all the options for each class. Out of no where I see this "Echo Knight". I'm like... "Oh man, what the bleep is this and how bad is it going to be?". ?????????? It can do what??? and what??? Are you bleeping serious??? I then talked to my GM/DM and he said it's kinda OP, so some GM's/DM's won't even allow it in the campaign, but he's never seen one played so he let me build one at level 6. Whoops. I join Strahd and show up brandishing Heavy Black Plate and weapons all over my back and side. The party is like... oh great, a fighter. I smile to myself... "Yup, I'm a fighter". I didn't tell them I'm a Shardar-Kai - 5 Echo Knight / 1 Light Cleric and do NOT need them in the party. The first fight, I roll low in initiative, so everyone runs up and engages in combat. On my turn, I move my full movement and then 'pop' out a Shadow of me, right in front of the main bad guy. Everyone is like... what is that? On the next turn I swap places with my shadow and then move my echo to the other side, adjacent the bad guy, wink and then attack from my Echo's spot 2 times. Everyone (including the bad guy) are like... ?????????? I smile and next turn. The bad guy tries to attack me, but I use Warding Flare and he's at disadvantage. He misses and everyone else attacks. Then I swap back and forth on my next 2 attacks and everyone is confused. By this time the bad guy is panicking and tries to force an escape. Whoops... Opportunity attack from my shadow and he's down. Let's just say for a shorter read that this happened on the next fight as well.
After we are done, the main DPS guy from before I joined is like... What the Bleep just happened and Wow, that was amazing. He managed to have so many free attacks while flanking, the rogue was sneak attacking and the bad guys didn't hit me or my Echo even once.
After 1 short battle the team looks at me and follows my lead... well, they actually follow my Echo who is always out in front of me (by 30').
I don't like fighters, but this build is SOOOOOO much fun.
Wait until I get my next level and I get the Sentinel feat! ahahahahahahahahahaha... IT'S OVER! Game is broken now.
Great ranking. Nicely done.
Arcane archer does not end up being as bad as you make it out to be, only white room theorycrafting as youre so fond of putting it. I will say, however, that in my experience where it really shines is taking only 3 levels in fighter for the AA and 2 special arrows as a multiclass for a Ranger. Did this in a high level Tyranny of Dragons campaign with a Monsted Slayer and Oh boy did that combo pay dividends.
So an Echo-knight Paladin essentially has a ranged smite. Sounds awesome. Pair it with Conquest paladin or Vengeance paladin and oh boy are we having fun.
Ranged smite with action surge. The last thing that poor ancient red dragon will ever seen :(
@@enterthedungeon I know right? I love how it is even stated by the creators that Manifest Echo doesn't specify that it has to be on a solid surface. You can manifest your echo in mid-air or on water, ect. It's more versatile than what people initially think about.
The Brute subclass from Unearthed Arcana 46 - Three Subclasses
I took 1d4 psychic damage at 4:10 #Champion
Man I wish there was a better, more interesting version of Arcane Archer. Yes, there are some reworks in forums (and the Revised UA version), but in my opinion they are not really interesting, they are all just about shooting an arrow that has a spell's effect attached to it. And you shoot those arrows like 2-3 times per short rest and then you are just a ranged fighter without a subclass.
How about giving Arcane Archer unique features, like being able to shoot magic arrows from a different direction, shooting an arrow that teleports you to its location or makes the hit target swap places with you? The ability to split your arrow magically to do less damage but to multiple targets? Or giving passive effects like the paladin, maybe you can help your allies hit targets better or stop/divert enemy projectiles (and projectile-based spells). Get funky. Don't just make it "this arrow explodes, that arrow freezes the target, this one frightens it, this one you can use to wallbang enemies".
When I hear "Arcane Archer", I immediately have to think of the Magick Archer in Dragon's Dogma. It's such an insanely fun, unique class. And I am sure you could make something similar unique in DnD 5e.
Eldritch knight could also work in low Magic campaign, if magic still exists but full casters aren’t available as an option Eldritch knight might due to being 1/3 casters and being extremely limited in their choices really giving them that low magic setting feeling.
Thank you!
Arcane archer, have curving arrows so you can redirect your misses. They still aren't great and need more shots, they are still as good if not better than purple knights.
Carrying an oversized weapon isn't a problem if you have Powerful build or you are a centaur
IMHO:
- *Eldritch Knight* is at least B tier. It is the best defensive fighter without multiclassing, and using a simple half-feat such as fey touched you get mobility and acces to hunters mark, which significally improves your dps
- *Psi warrior* is not that great. Sounds good on paper but is pretty meh on the actual play
- Arcane archer is actually decent if you pick the right trick shots.
- *Echo Knight* is by far the strongest fighter mecanically, due to maneuverability.
If you use an action to let your echo throw an alchemist fire, does you lose a flask of alchemist fire? Because you could really cheese thing if it don't cost anything for an echo to throw things.
Doesn't work like that. When your echo "attacks" you're the one making the attack from the echo's position. So it's your weapon actually hitting the target. Likewise, with thrown weapons/items you actually throw them, they just originate from the echo's position.
So yes, your thrown items are lost.
Your point about about oversized swords is a bit stupid, 10 Feet is not that big, Zwielhanders & Odachis (Big Katanas) were 7 Feet, & a Pike could be up to 15 Feet.
Also the Blade Width of Guts Sword is stupidly unrealistic, the Average Longsword Blade Width was 1.75 inches so an Oversized Longsword blade would be 3 Inches Wide, thats really not that big a deal.
Sure it would make you noticible but not much more than any Large Two Handed Weapon.
I strongly disagree with the "champions are bland and vanilla, made for new players only" narrative. My favorite multiclass synergies are barbarian + champion for reckless attacks and increased critical, and rogue + champion with elven accuracy for a mountain of sneak attack dice. 😅
there's a certain book that can help the rune knight that's coming out.
15:15 it might be solved by hexblade and his summoned weapon
You're insane, Eldritch Knight is better than you give it credit for. Eldritch Knight has access to one of the few abilities in the game that imposes disadvantage on saving throws. You can cast blindness, or even better: hold person, and just cc lock the shit out of an enemy.
Psi warrior ranked above Rune Knight? This is a busted tier list
Samurai with 3lvl dip into Vengeance paladin.
I've tried to creat an account to download you PDK update. I can't find a way to do that on your site. Any suggestions?
Hmmm, I'm not a tech guy sadly. I've gotten a few hundred downloads so I know its working. If you would like, send an email to enterthedonjon@gmail.com and I can email you a copy of the PDF.
Got it. Much thanks!
here we go
Champion is only a 'C' class? I Disavow.
I hate Echo Knight so much.
They are always banned in my games. It just pisses me off too much that they have the ability to teleport with a frequency that only a Level 18 Wizard who specifically chose Misty Step as their 2nd Level Spell Mastery can match. It's an abomination, and I hate it even more than Hex Blade(1/2)/Paladin(+) builds.
Battle Master would be more fun if you could use your abilities more per day.
"QUICK! TRIP ATTACK THE ENEMY!"
"I CAN'T I ALREADY DID THAT A FEW TIMES TODAY AND FORGOT HOW UNTIL TOMORROW!"
I disagree strongly about the echo Knight.
Sure its powerful, but its badly written with multiple abilities which the give the GM no help in interpreting them.
If the player interprets them favorably "my echo is not a creature, so its immune to fireball!" And the GM views that differently, you now have a table problem you ahouldnt be having.
And the class is littered with these problems-
Can it fly?
Can you use multiple uses of unleashed incarnation in one turn (I agree that rules as written you can, but i think its bad for game play to have a character storing them all to unleash 10 attacks on a boss while hasted).
This is exactly what i don't want from a subclass. I'm a Critical Role fan but unfortunately i think Matt's aura of mystique and privileged postion of having a table of fairly compliant players does not put him in a good position to design a character class.
Most of that is solved by sitting down with your players and actually having them agree to how the game should be played so everyone can have fun.
I think its fine to allow the echo to go in the air if that isn't exploited but its also fine to put your foot down and say no thats not ok and wont work at my table.
Echo being an object and not a creature thus being immune to spells is also something that can just be decided upon early on, the thing dies pretty fast anyway so either ruling isn't super impactful.
Unleash incarnation is the only really problematic aspect as it just lets you get a lot more attacks early compared to others. But compared to other DnD characters its not that big of an issue. Everyone does broken stuff and fighter doesn't do much besides damage. Don't build your encounters around 1 big monster or caster and instead split them up into multiple and it will be fine.
Your issue seems to be more with players stepping out of the designated play area and derailing the campaign by not understanding that the DM prepared a certain amount of content for this session.
Hey, thanks for the reply :)
So I agree that it can be handled, and as you say, you can sit down with a player and explain how you are going to rule it at your table.
Which I have done, and I have these rules up on my Discord server for my professional games, which I run 4 nights a week.
But imagine for a moment, that there wasn't one subclass like this, let say there were 2 for each class. 24 subclasses where the rules were unclear or overpowered due to poor wording.
Am I supposed to go through each of them with everyone who sits down at my table, shoot down character concept after character concept?
All with the feel bad "No"?
So I agree the problems are manageable, but I have an issue with parts of the system that require this much oversight from the GM.
SHADOW BLADE
The Battle Master is overrated honestly.
It’s on the same C Tier as Champion and Purple Dragon Knight.
It opens up more basic actions and some outside combat utility but that’s it.
The Champion, Battle Master and Purple Dragon Knight features, should have been the basic fighter features.
Unleash Incarnation is way too powerful, it deserves a nerf in One D&D.
Can’t tell if the list is bait or what lol psy over BM is a tough sell. Rune knight dropped to B cause of oversized weapons? Typical Echo Knight propaganda while admitting to why it’s not half the sin people portray. If you think a fighter subclass with a lvl 1 find familiar they can attack from and swap with is THAT strong “youre wrong, youre just wrong” lol and boyo is your little head gonna spin when you see what any spell caster can do compared in every vector bar damage (only at exactly level 5 tho) The myth is thoroughly busted by now please please god let me get a single video talking about echo fighters where someone claiming to DM them actually has!
Where THE HELL is the T.REX Fighter.anyway?
I'd say that suggesting a samurai to a first-time fighter player is not a bad choice, he'd have just an extra bonus action that grants a similar benefit (from a mathematical standpoint) and more.
Plus I think that the feeling of rolling that many dices is enticing to a new player.
I knew from the start that echo knight was going to be set in a ranking of its own!
Depends on the player! Honestly some players I have no problem starting off with a Battle Master or Rune Knight if they have a history with TTRPGs. Others struggle to even use bonus actions and comprehend temporary hit points. If I'm not sure where a player lies, I recommend Champion (really my Vanquisher) and offer to change the subclass if they want something a bit more complex. Samurai is a great option though for many!