West Germany's wooden space gun: the H&K G11 with firearms and weaponry expert, Jonathan Ferguson
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- This week's episode combines one of the world's most recognisable and elusive firearms with an interesting idiosyncrasy of firearms design: the wooden mock-up. No, we don't have a real G11 (Bundeswehr if you're watching, you know where we are), Jonathan examines this sales replica, which is an accessioned and important item of our collection in it's own right.
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00:00 - Intro
01:30 - Mock-up
02:16 - 'Firearm' Details
07:44 - Archival Documents
10:35 - Why Mock?
11:00 - Fate of the G11
11:55 - Outro
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I've heard a different interpretation of the markings:
S = Safe
E = Economy
F = Fun.
F Stands for piece, Frieden
@@Preussenpenner
Peace you mean ....but piece is a very funny typo!
In my country, f is nicknamed frås, meaning something like waste or gluttony
I love how he still keeps trigger and muzzle discipline even with a wooden mockup. A true firearms expert and you can't tell me otherwise. Great video.
We think so too! :)
Treat every gun as if it is loaded, even if it's a mock up I guess? Good on Jonathan, much better than some others you can find on here.
@@MortRotuwith how many guns hes handled it’s probably just second nature to him 😂
That's good Trigger Discipline , Excellent
Splinter protection!
I happen to live in a city in Germany that houses a Bundeswehr teaching collection (they explicitly don't call themselves a museum, though everyone else does), and they have like half of all existing G11 prototypes. They have recently reopened after a COVID-related pause, I think I need to give them another visit.
I was there back in 2015 - amazing place. They are very much along the lines of the Pattern Room, that was not a museum either, but served some of the same functions.
Koblenz WTSS ? Been there 3 or 4 times, always such a great experience. The fact that it is not a 'museum' means there are more exhibits and more specs as well as some of these really nice 'cut through' or transparent guns 👍
@@jonathanferguson1211 maybe they'll be willing to loan you folks one :D This video needs to happen!
I heard about 20, 25 years ago that the Hammelburg barracks supposedly had some early production units (not prototypes) mothballed. It would make some sense, as Hammelburg was were new infantry gear was trialled.
Somewhere I imagine Jonathon having a large cardboard box marked "Bits and Bobs" full of oddly shaped pieces of metal that have fallen off the various weapons over the years.
And whenever they get an intern or new guy they tell them to assemble a whole gun from it
Forgottenweapons has had the honor to look at a real one and it's amazing
I looked at about a dozen in the WTS collection in Koblenz a few years back - I was overwhelmed :D
@@jonathanferguson1211 I actually went to that defense museum in Koblenz many years ago as well! I went on a slightly rainy day and was surprised how... shabby the interior was.
But thankfully I had just enough time to take many pictures of the G11 prototypes, ammo prototypes, and the majestic K2 in its full glory.
I hope I can visit it once again in the future soon to take more pictures of the stuff I didn't have time to peruse through (like the Mars pistol and Kolibri)
Kraut Space Magic. Perfect title.
@@sim.frischh9781Ian knew there could be no other title for that video.
Of course, Gun Jesus got the best cred out there.
Stupid fact - The G11 is banned by name in Canada (Prohibited), even though it was only ever a prototype. It's literally impossible to get one, but Canada made SURE it was illegal to have one. Our gun laws are......... special.
That IS a stupid fact. Thank you :)
Good evidence that the laws are made based on what looks scary to the politicians, not based on facts.
As a Canadian......special is an understatement.
The China Lake pump action 40mm is also banned by name(at least, an experimental model of EX-41, one of which was made)
Correct me if I’m wrong don’t Canadian gun laws prohibit guns by name not specifications so certain Chinese rifles can fly but named AKs, ARs or the G11 as specifically mentioned are banned?
As a player of Jagged Alliance 2, I remember this gun very well. An enemy Merc called Mike (who was playable in the first game) would challenge your team to combat and was carrying a G11
I remember it well. I wish those had been the top tier weapons instead of the silly rocket rifles they included. JA3 doesn't have either, but the machine guns RPGs and mortars make up for it :)
@jonathanferguson1211 yeah me too, although I guess the Rocket Rifle did at least fit in with the whacky nature of the game such as the alien creatures in the mines!
Always loved the description of the g11 in game - The Porsche of assault rifles
Yup, Mike can only be played at close to the end of the 1st game. Quite accurate and has an m14. I have read by the 2nd, he has become your enemy. I haven't played the second and I am not sure my 2 year old laptop can handle the 3rd one.
@shaider1982 yeah he turns up at a random location when you reach a certain point of progress in the game. Ja2 is excellent even today, especially if you get the fan made mods like the 1.13 update
Not had chance to play ja3 yet though
H&K have some of the most 'sci-fi' looking weapons ever. Along with FN. Truly awesome design.
Only those? There are drawings of the Steyr AUG in the Shadowrun sourcebooks. This cyberpunk/urban fantasy-roleplaying game takes place in 2050 onwards. So I believed that this weapon was just an invention made by the game developers like the Ares Predator or the Ruger Super Warhawk.
'Space magic' some would say ...
@@RoyalArmouriesKraut space magic/Waffle space magic respectively
@@barbarossarotbart The Warhawk seems to be a recreation of the 2.5' Ruger Super Redhawk with an elongated barrel, while the Ares P is just the Robocop gun as a heavy pistol instead of an auto pistol. Shadowrun came out in 1989, Robocop and the Redhawk in '87. And the Steyr AUG (aka. Sturmgewehr 77) was developed in the late 60s.
What the space-y guns have in common: they're European. Far away from that vanilla US AR-15 or USSR AK design.
@@harrisonfnord5871 But those two guns do not exist IRL, while the Steyr AUG does. Is the real Steyr AUG also modular and can be reassembled into an SMG, a carbine, an assault rifle and even a light MG?
0:32 - The info card denoting the "Lump of Wood" has got to be one of the best displays of classic british humour I've seen in a while. Fine work to the editor for RA.
Ian McCollum from Forgotten Weapons disassembled a real G11 if anyone is interested in studying the insanity that happens on the inside.
Its like a gun designed by a swiss clockmaker who hates everyone :)
Yep, I saw that one. Absolutely crazy mechanism, good luck if it ever required serious maintenance in the field!
@@Oldtanktapperactually one of the advantages of the G11 was increased reliability because of how closed it is,not a lot of particles got inside,so it needed less maintenance.
But yeah in case he needed the poor guy would be fucked.
It's basically a steam engine mixed with a swiss watch internally
Lovely to see this mock-up again, Jonathan showed me this on my very first visit to the Armouries! (That and the EM2 of course) I field stripped an ACR trials prototype G11 and I can confirm, as Jonathan said, it is a pretty complex action!
I suspect that caseless won't return, not because it isn't viable, but because polymer casings are really starting to get promising and those can be used in older systems while still reducing weight. Backwards compatibility is very attractive to accountants.
I'm betting on combustible casings.
@@LexYeen"caseless" ammunition means there is no case, only the propellant charge = combustible.
Won't polymer casings have at least almost the same "no metal casing that extracts heat from the system" problem as completely caseless?
@ Unsure, I just know that semi-polymer cases (brass rear cap on a polymer case) are already in use in some applications like helicopter gunships to reduce weight.
@@williestyle35 Caseless and combustible casings are two different things.
Loved the "Shopping" interlude
Love the constant improvements to this series. The sound, the editing, the camera work and of course Jonathan's 'performance'. Good stuff :)
I had a hearty laugh when "Lump of Wood" popped up on the screen.
That following on from the 'Hello, welcome to "What is this piece of wood?"' had me near gasping for air from laughter.
Props to the editing team, really upping your game recently and i see you
I love how it looks so retro-futuristic, totally wouldn't feel out of place if you put it right besides the DeLorean.
I learned something, yet again, today. Thanks, Jonathan!
I just looked up the internals of the G11 and goodness me you need a watch maker to service that thing.
Was it Ian who referred to this gun as Kraut Space Magic?
Honestly the best description for it.
when you lock a clockmaker in a room and tell him to make a gun
Danke Jonathan !
In my view, anyone who actually cares about firearms development should be just as happy to see one of these as the final product! Be it ergonomic testing, marketing, or low-cost concept testing, these things were and are important references for the development process of the G11. Good on the Royal Armouries for preserving this thing for the benefit of firearms and mechanical engineering history to come!
forgotten weapons does a great breakdown of this gun. a marvel of clockwork engineering
"Lump of Wood 1976" on the screen made me laugh so hard, and then you topped it with the "feurstoss" insert card. That was grand!
Loved the shopping channel ad break.
Thanks Jonathan and team for another episode of What is this wooden mockup?
I see the the object search still needs mending on your new website.... (but I found "my" wooden mockup, object XIX.852 in the end).
I thought it was finally time for my boy Jonathan to review a real g11 :(
I do wish we'd been doing videos when I visited the WTS collection, but I have a feeling they'd have said no anyway.
Excellent
Wow '' Didn't Know you had Mock up's , Great Stuff 💯 Thanks Jonathan 💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
Isn't this the advanced rifle used in Syvestor Stallone's Demolition Man?
I haven't watched this yet and maybe its been said.
It is, and I am kicking myself for not referencing that :) It was the later version though, and it was playing a gauss rifle.
@@jonathanferguson1211 I knew I wasn't crazy! Lol! I was telling my mum this and showed her. And she didn't believe me. So I busted out our vhs player to prove my point.
Love the work Mister Ferguson!
Hey Jonathan, this is David from Tons of Guns Mod for Jagged Alliance 3. I was the guy who asked about the EM2 if you remember. Would be great if we could get in touch as i have a few questions regarding the EM2 and the L85/SA80.
Great Video about the G11, i actualy love the Mockup with the seemingly real magazine. Tons of Guns also includes the G11, if Bundeswehr remains stuborn - Bobby Ray´s may has the answer ;-)
i remember the first time i heard about this gun, it was used in Syphon Filter 2 (2000) on the ps1 and it absolutely shredded the enemies in that game. it really doesn't see much action in video games which i find interesting.
Just watched your talk on the Henry grande "contraption". The x-way was an excellent way of conveying your point. With the recent prevalence in CT and x-ray scanning facilities for analysing electronics etc, could you contact a company who would be willing to loan their time to you for some very good marketing. It makes a brilliant 3d model you can fly though and pick apart. I would understand not putting the internal working of modern weapons in a 3d model on the Internet but some historics would be very interesting and more than likely simple for people to figure out anyway and incredibly impractical to operate.
I remember having seen a gold plated Sterling SMG in the Exhibition at White Tower. Those artwork presentation guns are quite need pieces.
Forgotten Weapons has a cool G11 video as well!
I recently visited the Royal Armory, sadly I didn't catch a glimpse of Jonathan Ferguson, but I didn't really expect to.
Read quite a bit about this gun ages ago, crazy design and ammo! Favourite gun on COD for a bit😂
G11s feature pretty heavily in the 1999 Matthew Reilly novel Temple, it was the first I'd ever heard of them before they started showing up in video games
I remember my Dad reading that book when I was like 7, and he told me they went to this temple with giant panthers in it. It sounds amazing and I've been procrastinating on reading it for over a decade now lmao. The G11 featuring in it might just push me to finally read it though.
Nice plug 🙂
It would be great if you could make videos on research programs like Abakan, Advanced Combat Rifle, Special Purpose Individual Weapons and others.
What were the goals, what were the weapons developed, how far it had gotten, had the idea resurfaced, what parts were implemented, had the goal been achieved by some other means since then made moot by technology advances? A video per program?
With the behind the magazine catch it looks like the metal piece was originaly glued to the wooden body, but with the glue deteriorated is now stuck to the magazine.
I am currently in the german city of Koblenz, where there is a big collection from the Bundeswehr of a lot of firearms and tank, many of them prototypes.
The got a whole display all around the G11 there with probably every single iteration of the gun on display, including the real, functioning version of the one in the video here.
They also have the production model which would have been introduced into the Bundeswehr if reunification didn't happen
Kraut Space Magic!!
I thought Jonathan was a human g11, all the books and RUclips chanels and working at the royal armouries... He is the human g11
And i hope one day he gets to hold and shoot a real g11.. the mans done so much for firearms conservation.. HK, i know you're a German company, but show this walking Unesco treasure (of firearms) some love
I would wish for a a whole video about the G11 family... the LMG11, The Carbine and maybe even the handgun if there exists a mockup.
First time I ever heard about the G11 was from a role-playing game called Twilight 2000. In that game finding a G11 wasn't too hard but because it was after a limited nuclear exchange nobody could make the ammo anymore. I probably saw a pic of the propotype a year or two later in some magazine.
Oh damn, obscure game if there's one. You brought back some good memories. It took place on a post nuclear war Poland, right? I recall that if your character was strong enough you could even equip him with a .50 cal M2, lol
@@thelegendaryklobb2879 Yeah, the introduction adventure that came with the game was set in Poland after WW3 which included a limited nuclear exchange. Enought to wreck civilization but not enough to make everyone die. I can't remember how the rules worked anymore but I vaugley remember you could make a super hero in the v1 rules.
Mister Jonathan could contact his American friend of Forgotten Weapon Ian that has a more modern better shape H&K G11 rifle in plastic Ian picked apart completely and also removed that magazine without any misshaps if mister Ferguson is interested!
I can hear Ian mumbling 'Kraut Space Magic' and giggling in the back of my head.
He's still right.
Do you have examples of caseless ammo or do a video on the theory on how it would or could work
Neat!
Did someone have information on LMG11 machinegun version? on the same program but different operation system for Light machinegun purpose with 300 round MAG !!!! and without belt system
I've seen inside a couple of sewing machines, and the real G11 reminded me of them.
But then again, industrial sewing machines are churning away hour after hour, day after day, month after month, year after year. Let's hope the gun was built as well as a sewing machine, eh?
Usually the eye cup would be removable and on the pictures you can se that it is in order to use iron sights.
To quote my school armoury sergeant, " Yer in the infantry, we're all right handed!"
Played merry hell with my left handed, right eyed mate, Tim. Poor guy, couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo!
needs batteries what size!!!! "Magnetic Accelerator Gun". Demolition man LOL (:
I do hope they manage to get their hands on a real G11 some day, truly a marvel of watchmaking. Would love to see Jonathan fiddle with it haha
My favorite rifle in Call of Duty: Black Ops, which took place in the 1960s. About 20 years before the rifle began field tests. 🙃
Aah yes, I enjoy it, every time I see this weird thing coming up.
BTW, speaking of old and seeing this wooden piece again second time in a few days, have you guys ever made a video about guns and gun handling of metal gear solid 4?
Check out Forgotten Weapons, Ian has a teardown video of the real thing.
Fun fact: The 3-round burst and full-auto had different rates of fire.
i think the price of the gun wasn't the issue. It was any price and any unnecessary change in the face of the mind bogglingly expensive reunification. Estimated at 2tn$.
I guess alot of things were put on hold.
And good thing--- this thing looks like a nightmare to clean
That’s what I’ve read.
What weapon would be fit for fighting on the Moon? This or regular guns?
Oh, so this was a mockup! Damn it, I was so close to a third win in a row!
0:30 For once the card is right on point! 😁
3:10 I do recall some sadistic commenters rejoicing in expectation of the difficulties Jonathan would have in explaining this cuckoo clockwork.
10:32 It also seems to be very helpful for devising the future drills & manual of arms and designing various acсessories well in advance.
Why does this piece of wood have an ambidextrous selector receiver but slingbars only on the left side?
When you think of prototype weapons that never entered service you think G11, OICW and XM8. Which would you say 1. Had the most work put in to it and 2. Was closest to being put in to active service?
The Panzermuseum in Munster, Germany, got at least one and some ammo on display, been a while since i've been there, but maybe you, Mr. Ferguson, as a fellow Curator, might even get them to let you inspect it?
how complicated would it be to make a mockup of this gun that fires some pistol cartridge? obviously we would loose the whole cashless feature but to have a firing one would be amazing
I remember FW's video about it. Interesting design... I wonder why no one thought this was a good idea.... Apart from The Bundeswehr.
If you said this gun was in Demolition Man, I would have believed it
It, er, was? Only it was "playing" a gauss gun :)
@@jonathanferguson1211 Not only that, it was played by deNiro. That guy can really play anything
I'm getting good at this game even said wood mock up
If you listen really closely, throughout this video you can actually hear Ian McCollum sneering over that time he got his hands on an honest-to-God G11 that one time
To be honest, I would love just to have one of these blocks of wood!
What about the gold-plated Sterling?
The excitement, until the wood
Had I shown up at the museum, I would gladly wanted to have a look at the wooden mockup.
I am a bit of a G-11 affectionado and a big fan of the rifle and concept.
Seeing one of it's earliest incarnations would be interesting.
Wonder if in the future there will ever be more new swarm of angry bees designs? I’m guessing probably not. Probably gunna go back to higher caliber weapons with AI/tech assisted targeting for higher hit percentages. Feel like some of the XM7 stuff is already going that way.
I heard about G-11 since I was a kid in the 80's. Oddly I find absolutely no information anywhere about an UBGL for the G-11. It can attach a bayonet and use different optic scopes, but no grenade launcher? Especially when I hear it was close to adoption by West Germany when the Berlin Wall fell. Financial considerations due to reunification caused it to be dropped.
I've never seen anything on a UGL or rifle grenade requirement for the G11. I have to assume that role was to be fulfilled by a different weapon. There is a German language book on the G11 programme on my desk that I intend to Google Lens my way through and might mention that.
@@jonathanferguson1211 Removing a modern infantryman's ability to launch grenades makes no sense. If not an UBGL, then at least rifle grenades. I noticed the same thing with the Haenel Mk 556 that was almost adopted by the German military 2 years ago. Or the Sig Spear that is suppose to be the future US infantry rifle. No information on UBGL's for either of them.
I actually handled a polymer mockup when I was serving. Two guys from H&K gave us a visit to try and find places to store them in our tank.
Felt unremarkable, obviously far too light to be a real weapon. Today it would probably be worth a nice sum....
I have not been able to find a detailed explanation as to how the G11 obturates. Anyone know the details? Thanks.
I don't think there is one - the propellant seals it until burning is substantially complete but clearly not fully once enough of it has burned. There's an old Jim Schatz PPT on the NDIA website where he illustrates that and notes "The caseless ammunition “bogeyman!” - It is very likely an insurmountable technical obstacle to successful military fielding." So he, at least (and he would know) thought it didn't actually achieve obturation...
@@jonathanferguson1211 I've read somewhere that the rifle had to be able to leak powder gases out, since there was so much of those, so yeah, obturation wasn't really there.
@@jonathanferguson1211 What's wrong with nitinol gaskets?
Engineer's Widowmaker. Do gun designers play games or the other way round? The Q2 Super Shotgun was the first weapon I saw realised.
Forgotten weapons stripped a real one. Impressive.
Kraut Space Magic
Ah, that classic 'Pipe Rifle' Nail-Scope 🤔
I've never seen a cheap and cheerful wooden mockup, with a nail for an aiming post, no less... coming out of Germany.
The rifle in itself was very good and accurate and was realy greenlighted, but then issues withe the ammo acame up , it tended to swall in wet conditions , which led to a high rate of malfunctions during the last phase of trials. This is the main reason the G11 was dropped...the ammo problem was never completly resolved and was deemed to expensive at the time
Yeah, it seems that bureaucracy actually was helping the gun to move forward rather than hindering it for once. The trials were making clear the system was not fit for service. However, because the right paperwork was continuing to be moved forward, signed off by people who didn't know or didn't care about the trials data, the gun was continuing to be "approved" for adoption.
Yeah an important property for military ammo is the ability to be stored for very long periods of time in non-ideal conditions and still be viable.
At least your talking about it.
The G11 is bar-none my faveorite firearm, mostly because I've got a thing for guns with weird-ass magazines. Same goes for the P90's sideways-topside mag and the PP Bizon's helix drum thing
Idk, they're just neato
Pretty sure the G11 was one of the weapons available in Novalogics Delta Force video game back in the 90s
Is not one issue with caseless ammunition the difficulty of disparaging heat? A lot of the hear produced is thrown out with the metal case.
Yes, definitely. The 1984-vintage G11 was tested by us Brits and the cook-off limit was half that of an LSW (which was 350 rounds continuous I think?) Under normal usage not a problem but in any emergency situation, not good.
@@jonathanferguson1211 yes I have not done the calculations but on a basic physical chemistry thought experiment of the issue the energy required to accelerate the bullet is of the same order wether the round comes from cased or Un-cased ammunition. As a result the heat produced is similar if the propellant is similar therefore the heat has to be dissipated and without a case being ejected a greater proportion remains within the breach reaching the cook-off limit more quickly.
I’ve always wondered about that. Heat dissipated by ejecting a case is energy that wasn’t used for propelling the projectile. Maybe ceramic chambers is the answer.
@@neilmorrison7356I have empirical evidence that ejected cases are indeed ******* hot (especially down the back of your collar 😢).
Somewhere along the way I think I heard that ejected cases take away 5-10% of the heat.
Have you thought about 3D printing a G11? You can use different color plastics to show off the crazy mechanisms
Good luck printing the actual action. Have you seen what it looks like? Fit to drive any experienced clockmaker crazy. 😂
Hey! I could own one of those!
I have to wonder how the development of firearms would diverge if the G11 was officially fielded and in use by the German armed forces (and beyond). But then again, caseless ammunition is still a significant challenge due to costs and manufacturing issues.
It did briefly end up in service with around 1000 built, but then the Cold War ended and Germany suddenly had to deal with Reunification.
Heat issues prevent it from being that effective, there is no way to cool the chamber (usually extracted brass takes away the heat)
If the insurmountable problems regarding caseless ammunition were truly on the verge of being solved by Dynamit Nobel in the 1990s then we would have had them by now. The fact that none of the great military powers of today employ caseless ammunition is prima facie evidence that there are still huge hurdles to be overcome.
for a good look at where more up-to-date caseless technology is at, take a look at the LSAT machinegun program from textron.
@@zoperxplexGlobal Military spending has been at a relatively low-level for the last 30 years since the end of the Cold War, nobody has had the money to make the necessary significant investment to adopt and entirely new rifle with entirely new ammunition until very recently. Even then, current US procurement seems to be focused on minimising technical risk, and hence costs, hence the conservative nature of the XM5 and XM250.
Since Sten "full of holes" video I bet Ian hiding in somewhere waiting for Jonathan leave and do a cameo again.
There are children out there that would kill for this wooden mockup.
The magnetic accelerator gun, the last produced hand-held weapon of this millennium, displaced the flow of neutrons through a nonlinear cycloid electromagnetic accumulator.
G11 oh my god gracious
Aside from the M16 what was the best 5.56mm rifle available in the 1980s for militaries?
Probably the FN FNC or Saab Bofors Ak5, or maybe one of those G3 variants that's chambered in 5.56
I agree with FNC - HK33 perhaps. Another candidate is the Steyr AUG which of course is going (somewhat) strong today.@@SaturnianDragon
@@jonathanferguson1211 Perhaps the South Korean K2 is a good candidate.
FA-MAS for sure.
@@jonathanferguson1211 Plus iirc you could get AUGs in any colour you like if you ordered enough. So if you ever wanted a hot electric pink assault rifle....
I couldnt even afford a wood G11 😭
Why do the words "kraut space magic" come to mind ... :)