One of the roughest weapons of WitW yet. The IRA Colt M1911A1 with firearms expert Jonathan Ferguson
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2023
- It's a 1911, but not as you know it. Used during the 1970s and seized from the IRA in Northern Ireland, join Jonathan as he unravels what makes this take on a prevalent self-loading pistol so bizarre.
Grab your August Bank Holiday joust tickets here:
www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/jousti...
Subscribe to our channel for more videos about arms and armour.
Help us bring history to life by supporting us here: royalarmouries.org/support-us...
Sign up to our museum membership scheme here: royalarmouries.org/support-us...
⚔Website: royalarmouries.org/home
⚔Blog: royalarmouries.org/stories/
⚔Facebook: / royalarmouriesmuseum
⚔Twitter: / royal_armouries
⚔ Instagram: / royalarmouriesmuseum
We are the Royal Armouries, the United Kingdom's national collection of arms and armour. Discover what goes on behind the scenes and watch our collection come to life. See combat demonstrations, experience jousting and meet our experts.
Have a question about arms and armour? Feel free to leave us a comment and we'll do our best to answer it.
Matt Vye kindly reminded me about a BBC archive report from 1972 on IRA weapons captured by the British Army that shows another (complete) example of this type - it looks like there was a large U-shaped metal plate wrapped around the front strap and slotted under the cutouts in the grips- on this example there was then another guard on the front of that, making it *very* awkward to use. Presumably this plate was the fire selector. It's also the real reason for the undercut on the trigger guard and not, as I assumed, to accommodate the firer's hand.
I'm surprised (gladly) that RUclips hasn't given you trouble for potentially violating the rules on firearms content, as being too close to the prohibition on "provid[ing] instructions on how to convert a firearm to automatic or simulated automatic firing capabilities" and "provid[ing] instructions on how to install the above-mentioned accessories or modifications." Maybe it helps that this one isn't complete?
Yes, since so much of this is missing I think they'd struggled to claim that we were providing instructions @@Chasmodius
@@jonathanferguson1211 yeah, but it's their system, and it's not just that the burden of proof is on you to show that it doesn't violate the policies, there really isn't ANY burden of proof because there's almost no recourse to object to a community guidelines strike. Maybe it's better for a larger, official organization like the Royal Armouries than it is for the average RUclips content creator, but what I hear about the process is quite arbitrary and draconian.
I've seen how bad it is for other firearms channels, and so far we have had no real issues, so something's going on @@Chasmodius
Given the estimated date of the seizure of this homebrewed weapon, there is a greater than 0% chance whoever tinkered with this may end up watching this video lol
Perhaps they will be kind enough to forward further information on this piece...
I thought that as he's roasting their badly attached brace 😂
Some old irish grandpa oooh yes there now is me old bessy
Can I just say that I'm always massively impressed by how much information Jonathan goes into with pieces like these where the origin or mechanics are scarce.
Hes the guy who writes the sourcematerial ;)
He's like gun google with an accent....
Thank you! It's a running battle to get videos done in a timely fashion and try to find out as much as practically possible before we do :)
An interesting "meet you heroes" moment having seen and read about this gun in the Observers Book as a kid and eventually being in a position to see it for real, and in Jonathan's case actually handle it.
That's where I know it from too
There was an observers book of guns? I never knew. I feel robbed.
@@greenjack1959l According to Wikipedia, there's one for firearms (1978) and one for tanks and other armoured vehicles (1981)
When you fully upgrade the starting pistol in a video game...
To me this is a pretty impressive job given the resources that likely were there to do it. As crude as the end product appears compared to a proper factory job (especially the dubble magazine and making it select fire) the work here took real skill for it to not just blow up.
Mechanic job I reckon. The work here could easily be done in a decent auto repair workshop of the era by a competent gunsmith.
The slide may be Remington Rand but the frame appears to be an Ithaca. They stamped the "M 1911 A1 US ARMY" in larger letters than Remington Rand or Colt did.
BTW if you're willing to accept some constructive criticism, the lighting in these videos is too dark making it hard to see any details.
That would make it the same configuration as my own, just recently acquired from the CMP. RR slide on a late war 1945 production Ithaca frame.
yes, and some portable sound deadening would eliminate some of the hiss echo
Not sure if it's my phone but the video seems quite dark. Great content as always though.
Yes it's dark (and the audio is ordinary)
not just you
Same here. 🤷🏻♂️
I also mentioned this a month ago ,can't really see the firearm as they are black
Definite basement dweller atmosphere going on
I put in as much research as I could back when I found one of the Lehman guns in a history book. Specifically the Dillinger gangs weapons as recovered by the FBI, a fairly famous photo. The fact that they were all modiefied by hand with no set factory standard makes them very interesting in their variety, especially in the magazines. Some are reported to have hand made mags, made by folding thin sheet metal with bars, and many are like this with 2 or 3 standard mags attached together, with some variety of quality.
The front grips are all wildy different, including those hand carved, and even many had compensators, some as simple as a pipe weldedto the barrel with some cuts hacksawed in the top. I saw somewhere there is a museum with an example featuring a CUTTs compensator, although this may have been a re-creation, there is no reason this could not have been done.
Fascinating pieces of tech, and the stories behind them are just as strange. How do I even do real reasearch on this type of thing? As an average pleb, I have no museum collection to look through :P
Lehman (or Lebman) is featured in the movie Public Enemies w/Johnny Depp. The scene with him in Chicago is nonsense because he worked out of San Antonio, but he did build and service guns for the mob, including his "baby machine guns" made from 1911s with extended mags. The scene in the movie where Nelson kills an FBI Agent with one in Wisconsin is more or less factual. Dillinger left his example behind in the lodge during that famous shootout. Lebman stopped building them after the National Firearms Act was passed.
Anyway you might remember which museum you seen the one with a cutts comp on it? That sounds very cool
I remember seeing either this or a very similar weapon when I was in the British Army in the '80s. I was told, and I don't know if it's true or not, that they were often used for close range assassinations, as they fired so fast you couldn't possibly hope to hit anything at more than point blank range, but the idea was you would walk up to the person, either in the street or while they were sitting in the car, and be able to dump the entire magazine into them in a split second, basically guaranteeing the kill. I really don't know if that's true or not, but it would make sense.
Pub shoòtings probably.
Only logical reason to bother creating it. A short barrel and 14 rounds (or less if no extended magazine) bouncy high rate if fire weapon isn't good for much else other than making noise.
@@bluelionsage99I wouldn't necessarily exclude the latter, both the loyalists and republicans had a big thing for firing into the air,
See it a especially in footage of Provo funerals.
Yeah, that would figure.
The ultimate extension of the 2 in the chest 1 in the head doctrine, or how mafia hits were/ still are often done by emptying a .22 into the torso at point blank. Simple, effective, reliable, as much damage as realistically possible for an easily concealable weapon & as difficult as possible for medics to treat.
Another thing occurred. Suppressive fire. The Brit army turns up in Land Rovers, so this gets whipped out, a couple of mags dumped towards the redcoats to keep their heads down while the provos make good their escape.
Completely different weapon but same doctrine - I heard stories about Aussie infantry in Vietnam using heavy barrelled FALs with the flash hiders cut off. The noise & the muzzle blast would be like a .50. They'd just start chucking rounds out of these in the general direction of the enemy to confuse them & make them hit the deck.
I can imagine if I was a tommy, just got out of the wagon & all I see from the other end of the street is a huge series of flashes with accompanying gunfire & bullets bouncing around me, I'm not going to check what's firing at me to establish whether it's an accurate & effective weapon. I am going to poo my pants a bit & seek cover before I do anything else.
Obviously these could have been & probably were used for hits, but in Ireland, back then, a sawn off would do exactly the same & be far easier to get hold of. The ammo would be too.
There is a full auto 1911 in the FBI museum that dates to the days of Al Capone and Dillinger. It is probably the one taken from Dillinger.
Dillinger carried a full auto M1911 in .38 Super as I recall. Probably the one you are thinking of. (there are two known examples)
@@redwolfexr Could be. There was a gunsmith used by a lot of the mobs a few miles SW of Chicago and he was credited with making those things.
While I am certain that my father (a WW2 veteran) was exaggerating, he used to claim that every American GI and sailor during that war knew how to make a 1911 fully automatic.
One thing is having a good switch from single fire to full auto, another thing is to remove the auto sear, and again another thing to just bump fire.
Barely knew how to fire it
My Uncle was a Royal Navy gunnery instructor. As such he had to know the operation of all weapons in service from the 9mm Browning up to the ship's main armaments.
He knew those kinds of tricks, they're quite commonplace. However if you abuse any semi auto weapon to fire automatically then you have to replace parts to return it to semi auto. Also they tend to just dump or "run away", so even if you take your finger off the trigger they keep firing. That is not desirable.
I had it happen to me with a cheap Bruni blank firing pistol once. 2 rounds fired from a single trigger pull. It was disconcerting even with only a blank gun.
@@runlarryrun77Spot on, its a lot easier than one might think to make a semi-auto "run away" but it is extremely unsafe and completely impractical, not to mention in just about any place on earth very illegal.
I also remember this from the same book. Ian Hogg's books really got me interested in firearms.
Fascinating to read, always interesting peices and a very dry wit.
Has the vibe of a video game pistol with upgrades for capacity, fire-rate and stability
Call of duty vanguard style
Fallout Belfast.
Interwebs says cyclic rate is around 900--1000 rpm on other full auto 1911's
There are photos in various books regarding the sort of Kitchen Gunsmith contraptions that you have described here and yes, it was done by both sides. My late partners father worked all his life in Harland & Wolfe shipyard in Belfast and another contraption that they had was a still, they were distilling a crude form of alcohol, a sort of Poteen, that was being sold in the local Drinking Dens, with the various organisations getting their percentage. Very entrepreneurial 👍👍
They also had various hidden holes / escape routes that would put the Great Escape to shame so they could go out when they felt like actually paying for a drink and therefore were never in the place, although they did like to talk about it as if they were hard at it and go on about it when it was closed
The shipyards. Of course. This kind of thing could easily have been done there.
@@runlarryrun77 👍👍
@@runlarryrun77 Highly unlikely this particular example would have been done in the H&W shipyard. H&W was one of the places that was almost 100% protestant/loyalist staffed, and was notorious for getting catholic workers to leave (Read into that what you will).
@@thenightwalker99 sure didn't they machine up a batch of sterling style machine guns too in there.
Actually there's a few variations of this weapon I've seen. another popular one uses stock from a hi power or something similar added to a 1911 and a round knob front grip from a vehicle shifter grip I think and there's a designed one with a narrow plate between the grips and a rather crude board style stock like last ditch ww2 arms
Im a gunsmith so i can envision how the missing components would have functioned. Whatever your opinion of this thing's origin, you have to admit that this is a very cool example of home gunsmithing in an active combat zone.
Can you show off one of the IRA square tubing Stenguns? I am sure there is one in the collection as it was part of a larger manufacturing operation that was busted..
Ah yes, the one made from a chair's leg.
I made a double stack 9mm pistol from the same materials.@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine
Thanks Jonathan and team, it was amazing to see that very obscure firearm.
The Dillenger reference makes me wonder if there is any documentation of overlaps between Irish American gangsters, American supporters of the IRA and the IRA where a design like this may have been transferred to Ireland.
Whitey Burglar
A lot of Thompson machine guns came into Ireland in the early 1920's with the massive 75 round magazines and were used up to the 70's in the north....
I knew this one as soon as I saw the silhouette. I had that exact book as a kid in the 70s!
I agree,Jonathan seems to be able to puzzle out how some of these obscure firearms might've worked,bring in Ian and those two would be unstoppable!
they are buds so that is doable.
I feel like that 1911 came straight out of a modern CoD game. That poor thing.
Call of Duty's Most Authentic and Period Accurate Weapon Depiction:
Very clever engineering for the ability they had at the time, designed for a particular use at a particular time
It all tells you the story about what and why
Very interesting, thanks for sharing.
In the Thirties in the US, when full auto weapons were effectively removed from the civilian market, this kind of machine pistol appeared in the hands of various gangsters.
Hyram Lebman made some of them, if anyone is interested in a starting point for a Google search.
Embellishing
Never heard this
Either bought them or stole them from the army
@@tomhenry897 If you listen to the end of this video he describes a few of the US gangsters who carried such a weapon and named the manufacturer of said weapons. I wrote my comment before t saw the end of the video and didn't know he was going to cover that.
BTW the US army only had the regular Thompsons at the time, there was never any commercial version of a 1911 conversion to full auto.
It’s Hyman LEBMAN. The family had a hardware/saddle store in downtown San Antonio TX near the courthouse on Flores St. it operated until 1976. My father remembered as a kid meeting a large man in the store and later being told it was Machine gun Kelly, who had a house not too far from there.
Have to give credit to the people/person who did the modifications. Even if they didn't get everything perfect before the weapon was seized, that's a clever and skilled bit of work.
Greetings from Syracuse, New York! Well, more specifically Phoenix, New York but we're close by. My father has two of the Rand 1911's from WWII and if I'm not mistaken I think one has wooden grips and the other has plastic grips and I believe those plastic grips are original (correct me if I'm wrong though they may have been swapped onto that one)...I've told him MANY times that when he kicks the bucket the wooden grip one is mine ;)
sadly Syracuse has become a shadow of what it was which seems to be typical of small Northeastern cities post-war but we still have a few factories here and perhaps soon a new chip fab as well...tough to imagine what wartime manufacturing must have been like but I'm betting it was a very different place back then!!!
Thanks for your work by the way!!!
External automatic disconnector. I believe that the original retractor was removed because they weren't understanding how to actually adjust those. But it's also possible that the original external extractor was also originally used as the mechanism for the automatic disconnector. Interesting application, a number of years ago I got to look at and shoot a Browning P35 that had been converted to a selective fire. That was a fascinating firearm you actually held it laterally and it had a grip above the firearm and you helped the firearm on its side. And the sites were on the right side of the slide. And you held it that way with your right hand turn to the left and your left hand vertical. It functioned flawlessly.
What surprised me is it seemed to have emanated out of Central or South America. But it was a really well-done piece. It looked like it could have come out of fabriq Nationals Factory. This piece looks like it worked fairly well.
Thank you
Thanks for sharing. I’m aware of this IRA used conversions since the early 80’s. Always intrigued by it. But never saw it in so much detail 👍🏻
The Observer's book of Firearms was the first time I set eyes on this as well 😂
Same here took my copy off the book shelf just to have a look.
Never thought I would see a Syracuse NY manufactured firearm in the British Royal Armouries, but here we are
Remington Rand was the largest producer of 1911a1s during WW2 as I remember
Failure to extract is an extremely common issue with 45acp locked breech firearms with a really high rate of fire. It has to do with the way the case expands to seal the chamber then springs back slightly upon firing. There is a tiny window of time between the pressure drop and the case shrinkage. If you attempt to extract the case during that window, it still has beau coup friction with the chamber wall and is extremely difficult to extract.
It doesn't happen with blowback firearms because they start moving immediately upon firing due to pressure. A blowback sub gun will usually run with no extractor.
I can't recall if the luty smg uses an extractor. I know it has an ejector, fixed blade, I believe.
@@FryingTiger the drawings I've seen do not have an extractor. But I'm not sure about the authenticity of the drawings I've seen because I don't have a copy of his original book and all of the digital versions I've ran across are slightly different.
I have a weird obsession with REALLY cheap pistols. And a lot of the "Saturday night special" blowback autos don't have extractors. And they seem to run without them. They almost never fail to extract. Failure to feed is the common issue, but that is due to piss poor mag design and construction
I had a 1911a1 with a Lebanese shoulder stock and with an extra long mag many, many years ago. Awesome shooting rapid fire at a police range.
What an interesting gun to showcase. Lot of history involved
One of my first books back in the 80s was a firearms book it had a 1911 and a colt 45 on the cover ,the amount of times i read that ,well looked at the photos ,i still have it lol ,and better still you review some of the weird and wonderful guns in the book 👍
History of the handgun?
@TheAde71 Complete Illustrated Encyclopedia of the World's Firearms ,I was wrong it was a Lugar and Colt 45,love that book ,I one a book token at school and the presented it to me infront of the whole school ,I've even got the photo somewhere of the Headmaster shaking my hand back in the 80s
Slight correction, at 0:28 the gun is listed as a 9mm when in fact it appears to still be .45 cal. While there have certainly been lots of 1911A1's chambered in everything from .22LR up to some of the custom .50 cal cartridges, including 9mm and 38 Super, the barrel and magazine both indicate it is still in .45 ACP. Also, Remington Rand, only ever made 1911A1's in .45. I truly would like to get my hands on the bubba who did that to such a beautiful weapon, while he did a better job than someothers I have seen, he still defiled what many consider to be the greatest handgun of all time.
There's quite literally millions of 1911s, the Troubles provenance is far more interesting than being a bog standard war-time production 1911.
"I don't know what it's been done with, but it's not good." My new catch phrase.
Kind of reminds me of a rough version of john dillingers 1911
Nice retro watch there Jonathan!
Interesting video. Perhaps it's for conservation reasons, but the lighting could be better, it is hard to make out the details.
*Talk about an external extractor!*
Actually, I wonder if they didn't tack on that monstrous claw because they managed to bust the original internal extractor? Internal extractors work, but they have precious little flexibility and can suffer a lot from certain handling, for instance you really should not load the chamber from the ejection port or slam the slide home on an empty chamber very much, it takes a lot of stress from that. The cartridge is supposed to ride up into the extractor with its groove, not have the extractor forced to flex and snap onto the cartridge.
There's a reason you don't see internal extractors much on later pistols, and why you now virtually only see it on 1911s, and even then some modern 1911s (like by Smith & Wesson) are redesigned for more modern external extractors for that reason. Some of those end up featuring a decorative plunger on the rear of the slide, where the original internal extractor would have protruded.
Reminds me ofJohn dillingers custom 38 super 1911 machine pistol.
We need to see it firing!
Hymam Lebman was not "an armourer to the gangsters", as often misquoted, he had an open to the public business at business at 111South Flores Street, San Antonio, Texas, a block from city hall and across he street from the sheriff's office, had many customers in law enforcement, lots in general public, and obviously some bad guys that misused merchandise he sold, selling expensive guns on first floor, cheaper on second floor, and a machine/gunsmithing shop in the basement. Prior to July 26, 1934, there were no restriction on fully automatic firearms and a number of these conversions were sold, some even to law enforcement. Records were kept and some from criminals were traced by law enforcement using Lebman's records to prosecute the criminals. Far from the crude conversion of example in your video, Lebman was a professional machinist/gunsmith and his conversions quality. The .38 Super round was specifically developed to pierce the thicker gauge steel of the the car bodies, that resisted the .38s, .45 Colt revolver and .45 ACP as the common handguns of law enforcement of era. These car bodies also resisted lead buck shot and law enforcement of era often substituted steel ball bearings for lead shot. (Reference law enforcement at the Kansas City Union Station Massacre among others) Comparing that IRA complicated attempted conversion to the sleak and effecient conversion of Lebman, reminds me of Henry Ford's quote, trying to simplify automobiles to make them both more affordable and reliable compared to expensive complex autos of era. "Anyone can make something work by being complicated. it's the genius that can simplify something and still make it work." (Or something to that effect as I'm certain a You Tube Karen will quickly correct me for not being 100% accurate in quote.) I also forgot those Spanish 1911 Star variants that were also factory made as full auto. Never very popular for obvious reasons, they intially made for Chinese market to compete with Mauser 312, and the Astra 'broomhandle' copies , both selective fire and maybe marginally easier to control. Anyway, You've become one of my favorite channels, and I've referred folks from my collector's club to you.
The banner that came up in the beginning of the video said " 1911A1 9mm". Very cool piece of history.
I appreciate your attempts to make sense of this insanity..
It's like when you want a SMG and your mum says "we have an SMG at home"
Lebman was a gunsmith in San Antonio, Texas. I think he would make those conversions for anyone who wanted one. It was not highly regulated back then.
Can something be done to improve the lighting in these videos?
"Who did this, who are they and why did they do this?"
Well that would be Call of Duty Devs I would say. With the amount bull attachments they put in their games
The weapon name plate says 9mm instead of .45 acp
Yes at 0:30 the title says it is 9mm although Mr. Ferguson does say it is a .45ACP later in the video. This pistol would have been .45ACP when it was produced, but if it was later converted to 9mm, that could partly explain the horrific extractor modification.
I love the Spitfire shirt, where could I find one?
Looks rather like the ones they sell at the Imperial War Museum.
Nice. And in Four Five to be sure to be sure.
Congratulations to Zoiders!
4:34 I would've never guessed that it's just a spring-pulled system and not a screw of some sort. Also, the thickness and design of that mounting block is surprising to me: from such wobbliness of the stock I was expecting a modification of the main spring housing with rails on the outside of it, which the stock would be dovetailed onto. That would allow the pistol to be used as such without a stock and relatively easily concealed, but, I guess, I'm expecting too much gunsmithing out of a workshop limited by both time and craftsmanship available.
9:41 The grips aren't original either, wartime M1911A1s are supposed to have synthetic chequered grips.
These grips look like they were made by an 8 year old in woodshop class lol.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine The grips themselves don't look *that* bad to me, I mean, yes, they don't have neither grooves nor chequering for better traction, and the wood looks a bit soft for the task, but it's the hasty modification done to them that is really poor.
I suspect the extractor modification is to haul the empty case out fast enough to stop stovepipes, because that slide is going to bounce and resonate, potentially increasing its velocity significantly.
Thanks again for an interesting review on another rarity. Any chance of working against a lighter background please?
...For what this thing was made to do, it's perfect for it except for the one problem: That stock would just about chop your arm off at the shoulder. Which I'm saying metaphorically, but quite literally if Jon actually fired the thing, holding it like he was at 4:06, it would've broken his clavicle.
Are there any SMGs using a 1911 or 1911-based operating system?
As an American teenager in the 80's i vaguely recall reading an article on FA pistols that briefly mentioned an had a photo of the "Chicago" variant.
Similar in appearance hut i cant recall details on the stock attachment point.
In 19 hundred and sixteen the forces of the Crown,
to capture orange-white-and-green, bombarded Dublin town!
*happy Wolfe Tones noises* :)
Did I miss something with the video? The chyron said “9mm” but nothing was mentioned to my ears about converting caliber from .45 ACP.
Yeah, I was wondering initially if it was a commercial 9mm or a later conversion, but I guess it's just an editing slip-up.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine It doesn't seem like it was a commerical one, it looks like it has military markings on it. It might've been a later conversion, though.
@@F1ghteR41 Yeah, if it was a Remington Rand it was an old wartime production pistol. The graphic in the video read 9mm, thus why I wondered, but it's a typo and Jonathan makes no allusion to it being anything but a .45 in the video.
I think I have a picture of that one (or one exactly the same) in a French book printed in 1985: it is written there that this Colt was stolen from an American base in West Germany, and modified to full automatic like that in Ulster.
THANKS for showing!
Tosh Creggan, rough conversion
For a full-auto 1911, if you look up "Non Standard M1911A1" you'll find a video from 2007 with one being fired. It's hard to judge exact RPM, but it seems to be around 700-800, which fits with info on the Colt experimental 1911 from the 1930's. As for the stock on that IRA example; coming from someone of Irish heritage, my people probably fought half smashed; the stock wobble helped negate their own wobble!
I imagine that the 38 super cartridges would help with controlling such a weapon when used on full auto. The problem for the user would be ammunition availability in the province. The CZ Scorpion would have been a better choice.
The UVF and UFF also bodged various firearms and they also had a fair few that were actually knocked up in garages.
US firearms author BIll Holmes details in one of his books how to convert a 1911 or Browning HP35 into a select fire weapon, in a very similar manner, although Holmes managed it without using wheelbarrow parts, with far less cludge mongery and ineptitude
looks like a ejector pin from diecasting that is holding the front gip in place.. i feel i may be a bit wrong though laddy
Any correlation between Remington rand and the infamous rand corporation of U.S. defense note?
Talk about an unsupported chamber…
Hello Jonathan. I was wondering if you had anything on the NAACO Brigadier. It seems a similar design. It was scrapped as a result of NATO standardization, but I have always found it interesting.
I'd love to see one, but I think the NAACO Brigadier was scrapped simply because it was completely nuts, .45 NAACO is virtually identical to .45 Winchester Magnum, and I think it would have cut the already modest handgun proficiency in the military down to almost nothing, and the proposed full-auto conversion would probably have been outright dangerous.
.45 WinMag makes great sense for a hunting pistol, but no sense for a military pistol.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine I have my doubts that Ordnance had any great interest in fostering handgun proficiency. They were seriously considering converting or redesigning Colt M1917 revolvers to fire .30 Carbine in 1945, and I've heard that some were proposing replacing M1911A1 with P38 only a couple years later.
@@F1ghteR41 I have not heard of the plan to convert 1917 revolvers to .30 Carbine, that would probably have been even worse. Imagine having to draw your sidearm in the dark or in some less open space, and you basically flashbang yourself.
I know that a bunch of army higher ups were impressed with the Walther P38 for its double-action / single-action trigger, a lot of people thought that feature in particular was a particularly snazzy idea, and there were actually some experimenting and trialing with various DA/SA 9mm pistols for a bit, including some very awkward blowback ones.
Someone eventually put their foot down and said something to the effect of _"NO. We're not gonna buy all new pistols in 9mm, there's nothing wrong with the 1911A1, stop wasting money."_ and that was kind of that.
The Smith & Wesson M39 was developed for those trials, and it well fit the bill for what a lot of people wanted if they could have gotten their way, more or less a slightly smaller 1911 in 9mm with an alloy frame and DA/SA trigger.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine I think Othias mentioned this detail in one of his videos on M1917 revolvers over on the C&Rcenal channel.
As for the P38, however one stands on the merits of the DA/SA, it would certainly require a lot of retraining, not to mention the fact that it's far from the best design from many other points of view. While the sane minds prevailed with the idea of actually holding a competition for the new US 9 mm pistol, it was foiled - as I'm told - by the outbreak of the Korean war, and later by other small arms programmes and wacky reorganizations. Maybe some naval penny-pinchers were also happy to keep their Tommy-guns all the way up to Vietnam.
@@F1ghteR41 I can understand them, Tommy guns were _expeeeeensive,_ I'd want my money's worth for one if I bought one.
Wow. Johnathan, I was kinda surprised when you seemed to be at a loss for words on the disfigurement of that 1911.
Anyone else notice the glaring mistake at the start of the video where it says that it's 9mm?
Based on the quality of the work, i assume after hours in a machine shop with the lights off
Don't forget "The Man from UNCLE" TV show. That had a trick P38, that could take a silencer, longer magazine & stock. Might have been an inspiration.
Seems like you could put a lever cam off the side to be hit by the hammer coming full back to trip it automatically
That thing is insane
Please more detailed pictures or close up video
So is it "9mm" or .45 ACP? I'm confused
There's a pic of that in (I believe) the pistol section of "The Encyclopedia of World Military Power" one of those big hard backed book club books from the 90's. Got a funny feeling the pic in the book is of that self same pistol on the table there. Absolutely everything is identical & I can't imagine these were mass produced to set pattern. Fascinating to think there's so few examples of some of these "workshop" guns that the exact same guns get wheeled out of the collections again so many years later.
I hadn't watched until the end when Jonathan said about the Observer book of guns. That would have been published around the same time as my book. It almost certainly would have been the same pic.
Was pretty sure I still have the book. Found it pretty easily. The book is dated 1988 originally. Pic probably taken mid 80's & those parts were missing then too, or at least they were not in situ in the pic. They were either not present when it was captured or removed some time before the mid 80's. Considering how carefully this exhibit seems to have been stored & catalogued over the years I find it hard to believe the MOD removed them then completely separated them from the gun.
Not in the pistol section either of the book btw, in the "machine pistol" subsection of the submachine gun section.
i assume when you say it used to be full auto that it has been rendered inoperable? if not take it down to the basement range and put a single round through and see what happens to the case. THe forward grip reminds me of the foregrip on a small rifle, attached vertically. it is possible the person who made this thing is still alive and well in Ireland or the US if they left. maybe the maker could comment on its acquisition, production, and use.
It would have taken a very small group to make this weapon. The front grip looks as though they took it off their grandmas table! If I was in the IRA back in those times, I would have suggested to manufacture homemade Sten guns. It would have been easier to manufacture.
By all means it's a very interesting piece at the time of The Troubles.
John Dillinger would not be proud of this! His was in 38 super if I recall correctly.
Bank robber desperado John Dillinger had one with the foregrip during the 1930s. The Lebanese Christian Militia had 1911s with shoulder stocks. All before 3D printing and CNC machining.
Reminds me of Sniper Elite series
Amd somethings gone horribly wrong here! You sir are correct. A collector would cringe and love this at the same time.
It's just like John Dillinger's custom 1911but if he bought it from Wish instead.
Honestly it reminds me a lot more of the Swartz conversion than the Lehman custom.
so why does it say 9mm in the intro name?
edit: that might sound like a*hole nitpicking, but I was genuinely confused throughout the video waiting for the description of this crazy .45 -> 9mm caliber conversion and the reasoning behind it, especially when the .38 super version was mentioned, which is 9mm bore...
Looks like the IRA took inspiration from Hyman S. Lebman, the Texan gunsmith that converted 1911s to machine pistols back in the 1930s. His also had an extended magazine and a foregrip, though the foregrip on his was that off a Thompson submachinegun. It also had a compensator and did not have a stock attached. Not to mention Lebman's 1911 was fully auto only because part of the process of converting the pistol was modifying the mainspring.
Seems easier just to make a blowback tube style smg using thompson mags.
While you're doing odd ball PIRA stuff, what about that hideous grenade launcher "thing" with the packet of biscuits!?
Funny enough I’m from up near Syracuse Ny
Reminds me of a WW1 artillery Luger.
15:02 What does he mean "tea shaped"? How can something be in the shape of tea?