The best helical magazine ever? With firearms and weaponry expert, Jonathan Ferguson
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2023
- The relatively rare Danuvia VD-01 is the focus for this week's What is this Weapon? episode. While boasting a relatively unremarkable spot in the story of firearms development, the VD-01 does have some interesting features, including polygonal rifling and a helical barrel.
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When a pistol becomes that big and heavy you have to question why they didn't just make it a submachine gun or carbine
Exactly what I was thinking. It would make more sense to have a shoulder stock and even a longer barrel.
If it was designed for a civilian market, I could see some reasoning for it.
I am by no means a firearms designer or engineer, but I think if I was going to design a firearm with a "gimmick" like this in current-day USA, I would've made a pistol version that could easily converted to a rifle by including a slot someone could engineer a stock for; all someone should need past that is the tax stamp. if it marketed well enough, I could sell models classified as long arms already with 16" barrels and with/without stocks or braces.
This design in the vid isn't far off in scope from Kel-Tec's 50-round P50 pistol.
Bethesda game designers
At over 6lbs fully loaded, you could have an SBR for the same weight
"Jóvanazúgy" mentality?
("Eh whatever, it's fine that way!")
lol
"With it's own unique spin" ...I see what you did there. 😎
Hungarian viewer here, never before have i seen or heard about this abomination, thanks for letting us now, we surely did our part in adding to the pool of weird guns.
Keep it up, Jonatan! 👍
Nézd meg a zuhanórepülés című filmet azt hiszem abban van egy jelenet amikor a szerbek ezzel raknak rendet.
This is the Danuvia VD-01. As the engraving states, it is "Mod. Vörös". Vörös Róbert was a hungarian weapons designer, who lived in Germany, and he experienced with the helical magazines. In 1990, the Danuvia took over his work, and made around 50-60 (maybe 100+) pieces of this firearm, with some changes in the designs, as they are well only prototypes. The firearm was intended to be a weapons family with a submachine gun version as the main product (hence the high magazine capacity), and some other versions, not specified. But as the weapons industry of Hungary was gradually destroyed - the last weapons factory (FÉG) closed it's doors around 2005 - Danuvia Machine Factory ended manufacturing weapons in the mid- end nineties, and did not have the opportunity to evolve the VD-01 past the prototype stage, into a full product.
If the capacity is standard for the model it is not a high capacity magazine, its a standard capacity magazine.
@@TheHaughtyOsprey It's capacity is high for a general handgun. So it is a high capacity magazine.
That’s quite a shame. I’d love to see what this could lead into
Suffering a bit from black gun on a black background syndrome here. It's cool to see Jonathan sitting within the collection but these videos would often be clearer if we had a lighter coloured backdrop for the gun itself. When you showed us the sights it was pretty much impossible to make anything out at all.
This channel would benefit from a lesson or two on how to film firearms from Ian of Forgotten Weapons
Yes!!!! For people who may be viewing this on their phones. It’s really hard to see this unique content you’re sharing here. Please crank up the lights or get a light colored table cloth
Thank god, thought my eyesight was going.
Check your device screen or your eyesight lol
Great content ... please improve lighting and macro lens lighting so we can see in greater detail. Mainly listening rather than viewing. Thanks
Love how even after being dismantled it was still huge.
That genuinely looks like a 40k gun.
That's a real hand cannon size gun if I ever saw one
Pistol made for Ogryns
It reminds me of the Helghast pistol from the first Killzone, personally.
@@jedimike7622I noticed it too.
The early Vindicare Assassin pistol looked very similar as I recall. I remember reading a press release from Warhammer way back that it was changed in a subsequent model update because the main criticism from consumers was that it literally looked like a brick.
It's always a pleasure to see a gun I've never even heard of before. Thanks for sharing it with your audience.
I'm guessing the internal white cylinder piece with case shaped grooves not only acts as guide for the rounds to sit evenly in the magazine, but also functions as the 'crank' to wind up spring tension for the rounds to load.🤔
But instead of a crank lever, the rounds being inserted into the magazine rotates that cylinder, in turn, winding the spring tension.
The magazine self-winds itself, simply by having rounds put in it!
Real clever, especially as cranking helical magazines is one of the main things users of them historically complain about.
Yep, just like the common 10/22 mag or the classic Savage 99 or Mannlicher-Schönauer rotaries.
The grooved cylinder is both the rotary power source (like a savage 99, ruger 10/22, or mannlicher shoenauer), and the linear magazine racks. The helical rails inside the cylindrical body provide the linear motion along the axis of the mag.
I'm the one that made the page on the original manufacturer, Danuvia, on Wikipedia!
My own lineage is partly Hungarian so i contacted a relative to ask about any information or translation of the company [unfortunately no], even. Information is incredibly hard to come by on Danuvia, as their most famous line of manufacturing are their motorcycles, before the company dissolved in the late 90s.
Also fun fact: Danuvia was concieved in 1920s post-Trianon Hungary as an attempt to skirt the treaty on limitation of Arms Production.
Second fun fact: The company made the Danuvia 43.M SMG, Danuvia 44 SMG, and the Kucher K1 (Danuvia M53) SMG, of which an M53 K1 was discovered in the Libyan Black Market in 2016 on sale for a few hundred USD. Another was found in Syria with an extremely cut down barrel and stock!
The M53 K1 was abandoned in post-war Hungary however as political influence forced Danuvia to manufacture the PPSh-41 and its derivatives, in order to standardize the Eastern Bloc firearms. The M53 K1 was used until the 1970s, where it was finally sunsetted.
~~if you can't tell, I aspire to be a Museum Curator~~
Follow your dreams. And partner up with a video game channel
not gone lie its blocky design kinda reminds me of the various stubbers "cased ammo" and autoguns "caseless ammo" from really early warhammer 40k artwork circa rouge trader era to 3rd and 4th editions.
Legit looks like something a low level hive ganger in necromunda would be packing as a PDW.
12:06 The lack of a telescoping bolt at such a late date is truly surprising! Although, to be fair, the whole disassembly procedure here looks like the designer missed significant parts of postwar automatic weapons development, which one may expect of a firearms brand that went dormant in the mid-'40s.
16:15 So that's why they went for FRG made barrels when they had FEG for that at home!
I'm very surprised Whitworth rifling wasn't mentioned along with it's polygonal ammunition while talking about Polygonal rifling he did do remarkable research into the subject .
It's so big, it would probably do as much damage bludgeoning enemies to death as it would shooting them.
It's like a borderlands gun. When you run out of ammo, you just chuck it like a brick at the enemy and then pull out your next gun brick, lol
@@MrAdamArce it is literally an IRL Tediore, you're right!
This needs to be in a video game as a machine pistol.
Been waiting to see this one on any channel online. Thank you again Jonathan for shedding some light on it.
A quick hint for German pronunciation: the TH (as in Lothar and Walther) is pronounced like a normal T.
Or like breathing out after the t but mostly silent
Lucasfilm and Disney should really get in touch with Johnathan; I swear every other video or every third video, he comes out with a weapon that looks like it should belong in the Star Wars universe or at least would fit right in lol.
Not the sort of racket where Kennedyfilm and Bysmally do what they ought to
@@TheSundayShooter Indeed, I would hope that he would only work with Filoni and Company.
Star Wars deliberately chose weapons from the first half of the 20th century to convert to props so as to provide the rustic space western feel we know the franchise for. This is much more Robocop or Judge Dredd's speed
@@CrizzyEyes I don’t doubt that that’s true, but they’ve definitely fallen off of the wagon since the Disney acquisition; I mean, the “AK gaffe” in Andor was just weak and lazy. Something like the firearm in the video would be impressive even for Star Wars now.
@@andydaniels3029 I just assumed that the Disney movies weren't even in the equation. I've already forgotten most of what happens in them
according to the hungarian wikipedia, there were a full auto prototype, but never made it to production.
as an engineer i love these videos about the outside thinking , ok sometimes they just dont work but my goodness the thinking is outstanding
This would fit right in the Robocop universe
Absolutely
Someone adapting this to a videogame/sci-fi movie in 3... 2...
Looks a lot like the Wilkinson Arms Linda. Same 80's sci-fi aesthetic.
It kinda does! Just square, instead of rounded. Both look kind of goofy, but I like both lol.
Such a funky design, I love it
Wow this is really cool didn't know anyone ever did a helical mag for a pistol.
Awesome gun. Now all there's left is to figure out anti-gravity tech, so it can be aimed properly.
Power armour time lol
This would make a good star wars blaster
what a bizarre and interesting weapon! The design of the drum is fantastic. I'm wondering if the designer didn't just work in another field, saw the drum design for another purpose, like an industrial design, and jumped in with both feet. It would explain the almost memetic design of the gun overall: big black stamped steel brick with almost nothing on the inside, with this magazine. If you never made guns and subsisted on a diet of imported actions movies, I could imagine an unexperienced engineer making something like this. If this thing had a stock, I could imagine it being very popular in some weird regime or locale.
Thanks for sharing!
Aside from the drum mag it's a fairly standard design for a machine pistol. Maybe rely less on your imagination.
You have to remember that this is a prototype. It was blocky because they were keeping things simple until everything was dialed in, especially the helical mag. No point in spending a ton of money having beautiful tooling made for the prototype, then having to discard all of it after refining the design. Kinda sad it didn't make it, it could've been a really sleek SMG in the same class as the MP5k for example, perfect for protection details, tank crews and the likes. Once refined, it would've been very manouverable, without a stick mag to get caught on stuff.
@@DrakeKillah It's no more blocky than a MAC or an Uzi, and there's no junk hanging off the side to get caught on stuff. You could probably make a few lightening cuts but if it's a machine pistol designed to be carried by brick shithouses, why bother. Weight is good.
@@chaimafaghet7343 That's the thing though... This would not really be carried by brick shithouses... Brick shithouses in the military being special forces, which might use a gun like this if it was up to snuff. For the rest of the military, they're a mix of different people, especially the sort of people that carry a compact SMG/PDW; tank crews, heli crews, rear echelon staff. Most of them are just regular guys, with a smattering of bigger dudes.
And regardless of them being brick shithouses, they are usually carrying a shitload of other gear, need to be HIGHLY mobile, and their guns are usually kitted out with scopes, lights, slings, grips etc. and they always opt for guns that are as light as reasonably possible to begin with. MP5, M4, shortened versions of SAWs or the M60, MP7, have all been carried by brick shithouses for the past decades, for their lightness among other factors. There's no shortage of accounts of soldiers modifying their weapons to shave weight off them, lobbying to get lighter weapons as part of standard armament, or buying a lighter personal weapon, in organizations that allow for it.
Any brick shithouse operator would attest to this. Just look at how they tailor their loadouts; carefully selecting their gear to be able to carry a variety of tools, made as light as possible while still being sturdy enough to go to hell and back. A heavier gun, means they will have to ditch some ammo, a piece of gear, comfort item etc. in order to keep their mobility. Weight is only good, if it gives you something in return.
It would be a detriment to the likelihood of it being adopted, and longevity in service, if it was left as is.
The MAC is a great example, but this thing would be sleeker, as the mag doesn't extend down as far, allowing for better positioning while prone, up against cover etc. And compared to the MAC, this doesn't need to be as blocky. It could've easily been slimmed down with a smaller bolt, and less mass over the barrel portion, as the bolt doesn't seem to telescope all the way forward. Which again would make it easier to deal with in tight quarters. If you've ever done CQB, especially indoors, you'd see how much every bit matters.
@@DrakeKillah The only people likely to make use of something like this would be close protection; bodyguards. It's completely unsuitable for issue to army retards.
That thing belongs in games, scifi, everything -
Somewhere there's a very angry Space Marine who lost his sidearm...
And my suggestion for a review would be the Zylab Patriot muzzle loading pistol. This was designed specifically to be able to compete in UIT centrefire matches after the general UK handgun ban.
This is a really cool looking gun, I'm shocked i haven't seen it in a video game or movie
It was the inspiration for the Helghast sidearm in Killzone if that counts. That's what made me aware of this pistol when I was a kid.
@@Slivyrif only it were as elegant as an STA-18 pistol.
Hi
I would love to see you cover Brandin Herrera’s Ak-50 and see you’re thoughts on it. Plus I know he would love to pick your brain about tons of historic guns
I got VD once. Man did it itch and burn!
First time ever you were glad to have a VD
i like it looks like something youd find in halo or maybe wh40k and i bet all that weight it has is great for low recoil. one could probably make one of those designed to use some high caliber rounds and still be pretty accurate with it when firing.
I think it would be perfect for cyberpunk
Well, as Boris said "If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."
I think that "smooth rifling" should be the tecnical term to use. It is rifled, yes, but if you feel the inside of the barrel it is also smooth.
Calico has improved the reliability of their helical magazines. Still questionable if I'd rely on one for life and limb, but better.
That pistol would be a nice SciFi pistol with a few adjustments ...
I like 👍 royal armery been there like your video,s well done
Awesome gun. It could be 5000 rnd between cleans possibly. Very cool 👍😎👍
As a Calico owner, I found this video veryyyyyyy interesting.
Obviously, it has been designed as a back-up weapon for 40mm China Lake Pumpaction Shotgun wielding Space Marines.. not for ordinairy humans. XD
Looks like a warhammer PDW
If it looks like a gun that belongs in RoboCop, then I'm all for it.
You know, in the Killzone games the standard Helghast sidearm is a much smaller pistol that has a helical magazine like this but it had a toggle lock action like a Luger does. I never thought somebody actually tried making a real pistol with type of magazine.
Everything Helgan has a helical magazine.
Judge Dredd wants his hand canon back.
How has this not been used in a movie??...
My god all the guns in that room!
Love your videos, but they are a little dark which makes seeing the details a little difficult.
Many thanks for sharing the collection and I am already looking forward to the next video.
Take care and stay safe,
Joe
This looks like a fun weapon
AFAIK Gen 5 Glocks also have a type of polygonal rifling. The buzz words they're using are "Glock Marksman Barrel", if someone wants to look it up.
This feels like it could be a isometric era Fallout gun.
would love to see you go through a Luty SMG. it might be a bit of a spicy video, but it has such an interesting history behind it. I know you guys have one lol
6:30 -- RE: "Think of it as Smooth Rifling."; One of the words which stuck into my head early in life (I was a Top Trumps fan, maybe that's why...) was Laminar Flow, because of the P-51. Strikes me that would be the advantage of avoiding the grooves in favor of rounded corners. It's the best of both worlds!.
It looks like a mac-10 upper on a Vz.61 skorpion lower with the pp-19 bizon magazine. Is nice I like.
this is relevant to my interests
Ive only ever heard of these. Mostly from SF units in Europe. Always wanted to see one, now i wanna touch it 😮
If i remember right, the word " Vörös " on the pistol is the family name of its designer. " Vörös " means " Red " in the Hungarian language.
Looks like someone with a strong distaste for their fellow man Frankenstein'd a CZ-75 into a Hi Point carbine upper. Fascinating.
It feels to me like with some slight changes (telescoping bolt, folding/collapsible stock) it could actually have been a decent little SMG or PDW (if in 7.62 Tokarev).
you just invented a pp-19 in a larger calibre, which as a proven weapon, would be much easier to convert
Does the Armory have an FGC-9? Would be curious to see Jonathan look at it
I can't hear you over that EM-2 flex in the background.
i was JUST visiting the museum at Leeds for a full day, but wasen't able to locate this one ;)
in which section could i have found these modern rarities?
Almost has futuristic revolver vibes. Very cool
There's admittely some design cues from the Jati-Matic SMG. I would think this was originally intended as a sort of a machine pistol, but since nobody really wants those, and they're legally troublesome, they were changed to semi-auto only.
FX Airguns have developed the polygonal barrel "smoth twist", it is quite good.
The fact that it's a pistol with a Bizon-style frontal helical mag reminds me quite a bit of the Lato pistol from Warframe, main difference being that one is entirely a work of fiction.
12:59 That is genuinely a breech *BLOCK* alright.
I like it looks cool
looks good for a carbine that can convert to a pistol sometimes more , Instead of a more typical pistol that converts to a carbine then is my thought on it ...thanks for the vids i'll double check i subscribed , it's cool to have a new vid pop up off this channel , thanks
it needs to have some sort of counterweight on the back to make it easier to aim
Really love to see Ian McCollum do a video on this.
This is why I love being American. GUNS, GUNS, GUNS. They're so much fun to build and shoot. Got 94 and counting!
and at 2:00 the reason I am here..Just watched Garand thumb Talk about the PP-19 Bizon. lol!
the buffer can also reduce the fire rate/and ipacts to the rear trunion
Can you describe the smell of the air in that room?
Probably smells like cosmoline, gun oil and solvent.
Manhood.
Wonderful
A helical style stick mag makes more sense to me than a coffin magazine.
Slap on a foldable stock like a vz.61 and a semi/auto switch and it'd be a pretty neat and compact package for a gun with this high of an ammo capacity. Could even pretty easily make higher capacity mags by just increasing the diameter of the mag.
That looks a Lot like Alyx's gun in Half-Life 2, I would not be surprised if this is the firearm it was based off of.
I am a simple man
I see Jonathan, I click.
A lot of the Czechoslovakian guns like the CZ 83 have the polygonal rifling it shocked me the first time I saw it 😂
Will you ever get your hands on the mythical Parker Hale/Bushman Individual Defence Weapon? A 9mm machine pistol with a lithium battery powered rate reducer sounds like witch craft to me.
First thing that came to mind is how perfect this gun would be to decorate and make it look like a 40K bolter.
I watched the Hungarian Gunsmith Guy shooting video and all that weight doesn't seem to have reduced muzzle flip. He did seem to be gripping it lightly but it sure seemed to jump a lot.
...you have the burn pit , bigger than 55 gallon drum size , a boiler with huge safety pop off for pressure relief, so anyway the steam jet hits paddle fins on a rim maybe and that is connected to a heavy solid disc flywheel with bearings , anyway the car alternator is rated for rpm to the hub the friction drive against the flywheel at correct position for maximum output x 4, 5 , ....whatever charge an EV i think , but steam below the flywheel can lift it and act as a semi bearing too....i might acheive backyard powerplant with auxiliary inputs or use for boating ideas too or both some are heavy , stationary charging, others are weight and component saving and run on whatever heat ....
Hello again, could the Royal Armory please find a light coloured backdrop and some additional lights, it's really hard to actually see what is being discussed... Apart from that it's all great - as ever - but a bit dark (in more ways than one).
It's like a high fashion hi-point
reminds me of the helghast pistol in Killzone
Throw a folding stock and a selector switch on it, and I could see it being a lot of fun.
Feels like something perfect at home in the robocop or judge dread universe.
This looks like a potential H3VR update gun.
That's a big piece for such a comparatively short barrel. If it's your pocket carry pistol, your tailor's going to have a real challenge. :-)*
"Look out, he's got a gun!"
"That's not a gun. THIS... is a gun."
Hungarian kid: Mom, I want a P90!
Hungarian mom: We have a P90 at home!
The P90 at home.
Do you have an 1893 Griffiths and Woodgate automatic rifle in your collection ?
C'mon Jonathan. This is an early version of Judge Dredd's pistol. :) The sculptured grip was the first stage towards registering the weapon to the official owner.
Does the Royal Armourie have a semi Automatic revolver in it's collection. I saw one at a firearms dealer in Wimborne. The revolver was unproofed hence a firearms dealer could only hold it.
The revolver had a helicoil machined into it's cylinder I believe it is/was a Webley-Fosbery Self-Cocking Automatic Revolver.
I get that its more complex, but surely you could have a mechanism between the mag and the gun (sort of like an integrated automatic winder) that uses the cycling of the bolt to feed the next round, making the feed reliability in helical mags much better? Please somone explain to me why this would be a bad idea