What really happened on the cross? How exactly did Jesus take on the 'sin of the world'?
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- Опубликовано: 27 апр 2024
- Tom Wright pulls together the Old and New Testament to help us make sense of the cross of Christ in a way that we can fully understand. Why did Jesus have to die? How exactly did He take on the 'sin of the world'? Tom Explains.
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Ask NT Wright Anything Podcast
The show that connects you to NT (Tom) Wright’s thoughts and theology through your questions. Produced by Premier Unbelievable in partnership with SPCK and NTWrightOnline.
About NT (Tom) Wright: Tom Wright is one of the world’s leading New Testament scholars and the author of numerous books including Surprised by Hope, The Day The Revolution Began, Paul: A Biography and most recently Jesus and the Powers. He will be on the Unbelievable show talking about this very soon. Tom Wright is senior research fellow at Wycliffe Hall, University of Oxford. Wright is ordained in the Church of England and, among other roles, served as Bishop of Durham between 2003 - 2010. He is much in demand as a lecturer around the world and the author for the bestselling For Everyone commentary series and the New Testament For Everyone Bible translation.
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Would love to hear your review on the book “Lamb of the Free”.
My word, that would be interesting! I just looked that book up, and it sounds like a game-changer in a game which desperately needs changing. Thanks for the reference.
Bought it and started: my word, it's fascinating.
It amazes me how our western cultures find it so hard to comprehend the sacrifce of Jesus as an act of love, forguiveness, justice (not retributive justice), mercy, restoration and reconciliation rather than enforcing wrath, punishment, payment, death, penatly and debt. Our sense of justice based on the roman law has distorted the meaning of God's work on the cross through Jesus.
Jesus is fulfilling all the jewish tradition had spoken about the Lord's day in which God would begin a new creation (in Luke 4 Jesus acomplhishes Isaiah 61).
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
How can we distort and turn the good news of God's favor into some bloody killing sacrifice required to satisty his wrath. We lost something along the way. We have stepped back too far away from the concept of justice demonstrated through the hebrew tradition.
About as evidential as Gandalf the Grey.
So God had to condemn sin? Why does that require Jesus to die? I can condemn things without killing something, so why can't God? Am I more powerful than God?
God's nature is love and justice. Both of which need to be satisfied according to God. Justice must be served to sinfulness. Jesus's sacrifice was the ultimate show of love and justice, because it showed that God was loving enough to send himself as a human to be tortured to death. And that torturing served as the justice and wrath that God has on sin. This was sufficient to pay for all the sins of humanity. Now anyone can seek salvation through Jesus.
Then where is justice fulfilled?
@@mountainmonkey15- That's not justice. Inflicting the punishment on someone who did nothing wrong is not justice. If I commit murder, but my brother volunteers to go to jail for me, we would not say that justice has been served simply because 'someone got punished'. Justice is not punishing the crime, it's punishing the perpetrator.
You are appealing to a silly definition of "justice" which only exists to justify your incoherent theology.
@@Venaloid I put my faith in the omniscient God. He chose to do it himself. He had a plan to turn into Jesus the whole time. It wasn't Jesus was some random dude God chose to have crucified.
I can tell from someone you who appears on a brand-new video of an apologetics channel, you obviously just came here to argue. That means you have the conflicted theology, bro ski.
This omniscient God sacrificed himself onto himself to serve as a loophole for the rules that he created so he doesn't send people to Hell. Such twisted sense of "love" and "justice".
I'd like to ask him what became of Peter Southwell.
God condemned sin in the flesh through His Son-yes. But how did God DO this? By taking away the condemnation that sin brought. (Rom. 8:1). "Forgive them for they know not what they do," Jesus told his Father. In that way, the power of sin was neutralized "in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit" (Rom. 8:4).
Thinking about how the penalty of death served for the crimes at the time, and how the payment for the sins of the Israelites were the death of lambs. Jesus paid the ultimate price. He was an unblemished human able to pay the price and come out of it alive, that is beat the punishment of eternal death/separation from God.
So God can't just... forgive people? The way Jesus instructed us to forgive each other? Jesus didn't tell us to sacrifice animals before we forgive each other, he simply told us to forgive. Are we more capable of forgiveness than God is?
As it turns out, God does forgive people, no sacrifice required:
Psalm 78:36-39, God simply forgives people who sinned against him, no sacrifice required.
Hosea 6:6 says that God desires steadfast love and NOT sacrifice.
2 Chronicles 7:14 says that God will forgive his peoples’ sins if they simply turn from their wicked ways and seek him.
Micha 6:6-8 specifically says that sacrifice is not required, and that all you need to do is follow god. Shall I come before the Lord with burnt offerings, thousands of rams, or my firstborn child? No, the Lord requires nothing but that you do justice, love kindness, and walk humbly with God.
It amazes me how our western cultures find it so hard to comprehend the sacrifce of Jesus as an act of love, forguiveness, justice (not retributive justice), mercy, restoration and reconciliation rather than enforcing wrath, punishment, payment, death, penatly and debt. Our sense of justice based on the roman law has distorted the meaning of God's work on the cross through Jesus.
Jesus is fulfilling all the jewish tradition had spoken about the Lord's day in which God would begin a new creation (in Luke 4 Jesus acomplhishes Isaiah 61).
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
How can we distort and turn the good news of God's favor into some bloody killing sacrifice required to satisty his wrath. We lost something along the way. We have gone too far away from the concept of justice demonstrated through the hebrew tradition.
I find these bronze/iron age blood magic ritual offerings very interesting. The idea that you can throw your sins onto a scapegoat and expect them to pass from you, killing an innocent animal or human being violently and using its blood as an apparatus of absolution and forgiveness, and in some cases burn the animal's carcass to appease this god because this god for some reason likes the smell of burning flesh.
These stories of blood sacrifice predate Christianity and their book by thousands of years. I don’t understand why they believe they have the market cornered on these myths. All religions believe they have the special sauce that makes all the others wrong.
I simply added theirs to the list….
bbq predates all of this
The following questions parallels and alludes to what's happening with these sacrifices.
Do you believe that "contempt of court" is a just and proper sentence/conviction for one who is so engaged in?
Also, do you understand that the gerneral idea of making a sacrifice in the present is in an investment in the future?
Your argument is like asking why do carnivores eat herbivores or why do animals die when they grow old? We do not ask why the laws of nature are the way they are. God’s ways are the same.
@@edenrosest We do ask why the laws of nature are the way they are and we build models to better understand them. We literally call that science. I only said I find these propitiatory blood ritual practices and beliefs interesting. What argument do you think I made?
Sooo it doesn't mean anything?
It's the opposite of that! It means a lot of things.
Piper is a lot more helpful to me than Wright when talking about the cross.
You can have a wonderful character and make the world a better place, but if you don't believe Jesus is the son of God and died for your sins, you are condemned.
DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH, LUMEN GENTIUM, SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS POPE PAUL VI ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964, CHAPTER II, ON THE PEOPLE OF GOD
No. 16 - Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God. (Mk. 1:15; cf. Mt. 4:17) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh. (Cf. Rom. 9:4-5) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues. (Cf. Rom. 1 l:28-2) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, (Cf. Acts 17:25-28) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. (Cf. 1 Tim. 2:4) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. (Mk. 4:14) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel. (Lk. 12:32) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator. (Cf Rom. 1:21, 25) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, "Preach the Gospel to every creature", (Mk. 16:16) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.
[Vatican VA /archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html]
Because justice demands punishment or death for a transgression of God’s Law. The soul who sins dies, or the creature who sins has to die, this is a Law within the Almighty. So the Almighty had to have a sinless human indwelled by His Spirit to suffer and die so that the Almighty could not exercise his justice on us which resulted in our ultimate death, but had the option to rescue us from it if we accept it repent and respond to Him in faith. The death we deserve was transferred to Jesus who was sinless, but Jesus, since he never sinned, was resurrected because he did not deserve to die, but Jesus’s death reconciled us to Himself.
So if I commit murder, but my brother takes my place in prison, is that justice? Hey, the crime got punished, right? Justice?
No, obviously not: justice means punishing the perpetrator, not punishing some innocent person. You're inventing a ridiculous definition of "justice" ad hoc, just to save your incoherent theology.
I know, I know, we *will* be punished in Hell *if* we don't repent. Fine, then why bother executing Jesus at all? No matter how you slice it, the death of Jesus is unnecessary and nonsensical: it was simply an accident in history, and now people like you have to make up excuses for why he meant to do it.
@@Venaloid So you are rejecting John 3:16 since you do not understand what the atonement is. No one could die for anyone except a sinless righteous person like Jesus. We owe a debt to Almighty God not to someone else. Grace is a free gift which is acquired by our faith in the death of Jesus and repentance which is understood, the whole point of Jesus's death is so the Almighty could forgive us otherwise no one would be saved because all of us have broken the Law of God. There is no return from the Lake of fire, there is no everlasting punishing, it will end with the destruction of the wicked.
@fcastellanos57 "punishment", "debt", "owe", "payment", "penalty", "law" are concepts that not necessarily describe what's the gospel is about. That kind of interpretation often comes from some Western perspectives which the cultures come from a roman law context.
Justice doesn't demand punish and death. The Western understanding of justice from the roman law context does! Justice has nothing to do with payment in the Hebrew context in which Jesus comes from.
@@drummera7418 and what is the gospel according to you? very simply, the gospel is to know that the Almighty has made peace with humanity by the death of his son. is not this the gospel of the good news?
Jesus was never crucified. Barabbas, in the gospels, that was Jesus.
Lol
That's why the gospels worded them out as "Whom do you want me to release to you? (Jesus) Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?" (Mt 27:17)
Barabbas means "son of a father". The Jesus they crucified was _the_ Son of _the_ Father. This is a deep symbolism that Jesus took the punishment for us, who are sons of a father named Adam.
But that's for you to believe or to doubt.
I wish the interviewer would ask a short question and then 'shut up' rather than ramble on. Tom knows how to listen and then answer.
Wright likes to ramble without answering the question, I think it's very fair to interrupt him and tell him to actually answer the question specifically, not give some vague overview of what an answer might look like.
@@Venaloid Justin Brierly has a long history of dragging out the question, even when it's been asked several times and interrupting the responder who is answering the question. If the interviewer was concise in his questioning or selective in choosing his questions, so much time wouldn't be wasted. The interview was a textbook case of the blind leading the blind.
Well he didn’t , it’s a story, fictional. And 3 days !!! Not much of a sacrifice was it . Iv had colds last longer than 3 days . Nelson Mandela was in prison over 20 years . And what was the point of this so called sacrifice Didn’t change anything did it
Jesus gave up his weekend for your sins!
Man I am really sorry for you if your not a bot. The time and effort you spend to comment on so many videos on Christianity, not to have a genuine discussion but to provoce in mocking a caricature of people's belief system kinda gives the impression that it is something personal... If it is i am truly sorry but you won't be able to properly discuss or criticise anything that matters if that is your method of choice...
May God forgive u for Ur ignorance
One of the most historical undisputed facts is the Crucifixion of Jesus. Please understand that this is a historical fact more certain than the life and death of Julie's Caesar. The only question debated by historians is if he was resurrected... but all of the circumstances surrounding the incident affirmed the resurrection. The multiple witnesses the actions of all the desciples and the fact that they were faithful till death and even under torture.
All that being said, how does the death of one man equal redemption for all of humanity? That is what the video is about. Read Romans 8 for an in depth explanation.
Its not about the time he was not on earth when he died. It is about the cross-for our sins-and the resurrection. He washed our sins with his blood and brought us new life thru his resurrection. Read a bible with an open mind. God will speak to you if you truly want to understand what the hype is about.😊