Where did Jesus go when he died? What happened to Jesus on the cross? Ask NT Wright Anything podcast
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- Опубликовано: 6 апр 2024
- Heartfelt questions deserve thoughtful answers. Tom Wright connects the head and heart. Welcome to the weekly Ask NT Wright Anything podcast
What happened when Jesus was on the cross? How does the death of Jesus commend the true love of God? And did Jesus descend into hell before coming back to life again? In this episode of Ask NT Wright Anything, Tom answers listener's questions on Penal Substitution, the Old Testament sacrificial system, Christ’s ‘descent to the dead’, and an atheist’s claim that Christ’s death was ‘just a bad weekend at human camp.’
#penalsubsitution #gospelofjohn #Jesus #Messiah #trinity #god #apologetics #christian #tomwright #powersofdarkness
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Ask NT Wright Anything Podcast
The show that connects you to NT (Tom) Wright’s thoughts and theology through your questions. Produced by Premier Unbelievable in partnership with SPCK and NTWrightOnline.
About NT (Tom) Wright: Tom Wright is one of the world’s leading New Testament scholars and the author of numerous books including Surprised by Hope, The Day The Revolution Began, Paul: A Biography and most recently Jesus and the Powers. He will be on the Unbelievable show talking about this very soon. Tom Wright is senior research fellow at Wycliffe Hall, University of Oxford. Wright is ordained in the Church of England and, among other roles, served as Bishop of Durham between 2003 - 2010. He is much in demand as a lecturer around the world and the author for the bestselling For Everyone commentary series and the New Testament For Everyone Bible translation.
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Thanks for joining us for the Ask NT Wright Anything podcast! We're glad you're here and do send in your follow up questions and thoughts by going to premierunbelievable.com. Thank you
Those who teach religion and mythical notions like gods - commit crimes against humanity and life itself. An imaginary god cannot fix the human condition, only man can do that. Religions and gods are the real false prophecies of life. Jesus is an ancient myth thousands of years old, a made-up story! Those of you who believe such stories about magical entities live in a world of make believe. Preachers, you can lie in life, even to yourself, but you cannot lie in death; death knows no lies. What you do in life is the luggage you carry into death with you. How will death treat you for how you treated life. Telling people there are gods is the greatest lie you can tell in life and does tremendous harm to human cognition. There are no gods, there never was, but there have been many delusional people passing on such nonsense. I ask you in the name of life - STOP PREACHING NONSENSE AND MISLEADING PEOPLE TO WASTE THEIR LIFE; YOU LEAD THEM DOWN THE PATH OF ALICE-IN-WONDERLAND AND DEPRIVE THEM OF REALITY…
Could you please do a dialogue with don Preston? I would love to see Nt wright and don Preston have a discussion
I love NT Wright but he’s phenomenal at talking a lot but not answering a single question 😂
That’s how I felt 😂 Felt like he didn’t complete his answers.
What, indeed, was his ANSWER to the question about Holy Saturday, the bait used to get us to listen to the entire 20’ spiel?
lmaoooo
@@WestrwjrI feel he speaks in books, not sentences. He would have to keep going for so long to get to the end of his explanation that we’d still be listening next week. Justin just had to cut him short 🙃
Wait…Justin is back?!!! Started listening to him back in 2005 when as a British Army Officer I started dating a lady from Magdalen College who accepted Christ through our chats. We then listened to Justin weekly before attending Vaughn Robert’s church. Was sad to hear he left but glad to see him here again.
This is a re-run.
I believe that Justin is deconstructing. I too, have been following his podcast for a long time. His questions have evolved over the years towards skepticism. Listen to his questions. He is not playing devils advocate. He is genuinely questioning his beliefs.
@@mr.c2485I’m pretty sure the questions asked in this video are not his own but rather submitted by other people.
@@mr.c2485 That's interesting. I thought Justin had a front-row seat to the collapse of new atheism. No?
@@mr.c2485 no. He’s just written a book about the new atheists. He’s not deconstructing
God's goal of dwelling amongst us (which is a physical experiential state of being) as stated by NT Wright, puts the words: "For God so loved the world..." into the perspective that he didn't primarily send his son to save us (the human being), but primarily for God's "love of the world" and his desire to dwell in it with us. But in order to make this desire/goal for himself acceptable to him, he needed to eliminate our sin first, because living amongst sin (theft, murder, deceit etc.) would be a horrible experience. This makes a lot of sense to me. And why those that believe in him and follow him (obey his laws) will be a part of and contribute to HIS EXPERIENCE of dwelling in the world that he purified through his work on the cross. Yes, I believe that Jesus did genuine reparative work on the cross which allowed us to also have a connection to him and our heavenly father. I believe that his death and the spilling of his blood was not just some symbolic ceremonial gesture.
I feel like Wright didn’t complete his answers. I feel like he only half answered the questions.
Having attended a British university, this is quite common. Academics like to ramble from thought to thought, sort of like Abe Simpson.
Jesus having a return ticket to hell is HILLARIOUS!
How would a good rabbi instruct from the roll of scriptures? He’d say ‘turn to where it is written ..’ and then he would teach. Jesus did not claim YHWH had abandoned him on the cross. He was showing us where we should turn to in the scroll to understand what would happen next. He was teaching from the cross asking us to turn to Psalm 22 to understand.
Perhaps! But not exactly. Psalm 22 uses the Hebrew word azavtami, meaning to forsake because of wickedness. But Jesus used the Hebrew word zabachtani, meaning to totally give over to sacrifice and does not carry the connotation of rejecting because of wickedness.
@@mikejurney9102 not to quibble: It’s an interesting observation. What’s the linguistic difference between Aramaic and Hebrew in terms on Psalm 22?
@@TwoKrows I don't know if Jesus was speaking in Hebrew or Aramaic when he said this.
@@mikejurney9102 Yeshua spoke in Aramaic.
@@TwoKrows He also read the Hebrew scriptures aloud.
We were the souls in prison Jesus came to preach to. We are not swept away in the flood of debauchery as Peter mentioned, because we are saved through baptism instead.
I am mentoring a PhD student right now who is trying to make Wright’s case against the “angry-old-God” thesis and the student cannot even cite a single scholar from history who teaches mere propitiatory appeasement (without expiratory sacrifice).
Tom is probably referring to William Lane Craig who was not angry when he asked that question. Tom explicitly made the claim that the reformers and some scholars have held that view, and Craig challenged him to cite even one historical scholar who has held the caricature that Tom attributes to them. And he couldn’t cite even one source. The fact that some seminarians may hold the view that Jesus merely appeased a cranky old God does nothing to address whether or not scholars have held that view. And no one has taught that parody of Penal substitutionary atonement.
I’d rather debate Harry Potter
very helpful explanation of 'sin'
I really miss this podcast...new episodes not reruns please 🤔
He had the power to lay down his life and take it again
Being sinless death had no
Hold on him!
Jesus Christ didn’t raise himself, he was dead, his Father raised him.
Jesus is fully human and fully divine. This means He felt the pain and death of the crucifixion, but God raise Him from the dead.
Prof Wright's definition of Sin as "missing the mark" corresponds to the Jewish concept of "Chet" -missing the mark-as a type of sin/transgression. However, the Jewish concept of Messiah, and of God Himself, involves redemption and saving not just from sin, but POLITICAL liberation. Jews don't just pray to G-d to be saved not just from sin, but to be liberated from the Babylonians, the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Romans, etc. Paul and the early Christians recognized they would get in trouble with the Romans if they preached political liberation, so the salvation discussed by early Christians became almost exclusively salvation from sin.
❤
Question to Dr Wright - if God condemned human sin in Jesus' flesh, hence his suffering and death on the cross, why are all people, ie all sinners, not saved?
It's never about the sin nor heaven, it's only about your HEART and whether you want to reconciling with GOD . The only way is to seek through him via Jesus 😊 Your way or Jesus way? If you choose your way you are destined to apart from GOD, the Hell is not a place for eternal suffer, it's just a place without Love, look at Ukraine and Palestine and perhaps you will get a glimpse what Hell is looked like
@@Herbertl_Lee Basically 'God' and 'Jesus' are fantasy.
You asked Dr Wright and not some schmuck like me; but just in case it's helpful: I've come to believe that, in effect, everyone IS saved by His death and resurrection. All we have to do is accept it. And of course, to accept a free gift, one still has to empty our hands of what we're currently carrying: Resentment, Pride, Greed, Wrath, Envy, Lust, Sloth, etc.
The additional good news is that He takes care of that so long as we're willing to trust (i.e. have faith in) Him.
On the discussion concerning ‘sacrifice,’ I think the obvious meaning is almost always missed, or overlooked. Because we have it locked into our minds that the word means ‘kill something for the purpose of appeasement,’ which it NEVER means in any other context.
What does it mean, for instance, when we say that a good parent must make sacrifices for the sake of raising their children? That they must KILL something? (Maybe some selfish desire, perhaps.) But it basically means ‘give up something (which you have, which may well have been first given to you), something of actual value, because you acted wrongly, out of character with the Spirit of God, the ultimate Source of EVERY good thing. You have to answer for your default, by giving something back that you have been first given. And yes, it’s a punishment.
In most of human history real tangible WEALTH resided in things like the accumulation of livestock. Take it from there.
I got born again 1973. Jesus Christ is real
Jesus is exactly who He says He is
I feel like I just got click baited 😅. He didn’t answer the question. Or he basically said he didn’t know.
I don’t think there’s anything in scripture that warrants any preaching in hell. It is better understood “he went and preached unto the spirits WHICH ARE NOW in prison”. Essentially the same thing.
So through Noah by his Spirit preached to the whole human race for a long time. 120yrs
I’d imagine the compassionate Christ would go to Hell to save Souls.
For all we know he goes there often.
Makes sense to me.
Today is Pentecost, and it's been exactly one year since I left the American Episcopal Church to become a Catholic. I believe I did so with God's leading...but I must say that I can never get enough of N.T. Wright's teachings!
Jesus was just checking that the construction of hell was to his high standards. Cause surely he subcontracted it out. ;) 🔥
If that was an attempt to mock God or the Bible, shame on you.
If, on the other hand, it was an attempt to reprove some of the absurd notions held by many Christian traditions, well done. I certainly take your point.
@@gregormann7 of course the god of the Bible is not mocked. Or is he? ;)
I assume your bid was rejected...or was it?
;-)
@@jaggedstarrPI yeah, I find low balling bids can leave you with a feeling of hot poker in the rear. 😂😂🔥;)
@@zach2980 lolol 😅😂
Thanks for having a sense of humor. I think we need more of that in these little comment debates and just in general... especially in the subject of religion.
Where?
the place they made up, to make the story more interesting.
I'm sorry but that answer to the question of hell wasn't satisfactory. 😢
This is a discussion on atonement and not hell.
Is blood magic really better if it is done away from a pagan altar? Still sounds pretty barbaric.
Penal substitution simply cannot be reasoned into the right concept of redemption. If you use vicarious satisfaction as the way to understand redemption which in itself is mysterious, you will see the power of love to overcome sin. This was also Scott Hahn’s position in this topic that prompted me to read “What is Redemption”. Luther’s conception of penal substitution is simply wrong.
Jesus went to Hell for 3 days, considering Hell is the grave. He was in an unconscious state until his resurrection by the power of the Spirit of God, his Father.
*1 Peter 3:18-20*
*18* For Christ also suffered *once* for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, *19* *in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison* , *20* because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
*1 Peter 4:5-6*
*5* They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. *6* For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Dr. Blue Balls
huh? what happened? whats the answer?
Spend time with Data over Dogma podcast.
Where did Jesus go when he died? If He's God He never died, it was all an illusion.
Thank you for clearing that up for us. No need to even talk about this anymore because you have answered all our questions. Amazing.
So many Christians are looking for signs and wonders but God is not working through the outer-man in this age. In this age God is working through the inner man, that “still small voice” that provides “the peace that passes understanding.” Our testimony to the world should be our peace and contentment in all the travails that come our way.
I'm not a learned person, but this resonates with me in my very simple understanding of Christianity.
@@berylwatts3647 …as we look with anticipation to receiving our glorified bodies.
'God' is petty ego fantasy.
@@williamoarlock8634, nothing is more egocentric than insisting that you are the center of your own existence.
@@garyh2100 Exactly like your god.
I have terrible lot of trouble with God, us and sin. I take from evolution that we are a charging, evolving, adapting species like the rest of life and in that sense we never were perfect. We are restless, searching creatures seeking out stable, temporary havens where we may flourish in a forever changing world.
Our radical self-centeredness can be seen as our original sin and yet our original blessing to help some of us to survive. Maybe we were originally created like this... one unconditional gift from God, containing both good and evil. This conflicts with a God of pure love and goodness. Sure we do need redemption from our self-centeredness but God maybe the evolutionary origin of this sin.
Three days would be less than a bad weekend in the scope of eternity. You miss the whole point. The question is from the prospective of what MOST Christians believe, that Jesus is God and he will end up right back in paradise with all the perks of being a GOD. Every human that has died for a cause has made a way more significant sacrifice than a God who gets to go back to being a God in paradise.
Israel does mean one who wrestles with GOD
Any possibility of finishing your insight? Care to share what it means?
@@seamusomurchadha2620 No insight just etymology. Just literaly what the word israel means.
@@seamusomurchadha2620 was'nt it Jacob who wrestledwith God ???
Consider the irony - Tom Wright thinks of himself as the one who is making sure that people don't see the cross as God's anger instead of his love - but in separating God's anger from his love it is Wright himself who is causing this to happen.
The question is - is God love until he gets angry - or is his anger an expression of his love for human beings - is it part of his love?
To prove that it's the latter I am about to do two things. First I state three basic principles accepted in Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox circles. Then I state a fourth principle which follows logically from them but which isn't well accepted (certainly not by Tom Wright):
1. God is unchanging in all his character attributes (see Malachi 3:6 and Hebrews 13:8).
2. God is unified in character - his character attributes are not in conflict with each other (see Mark 12:29).
3. God is never externally influenced - he is for example never changed by his own creation (see Numbers 23:19).
4. If nothing WITHIN God is reason for the INTENTION behind his actions to change (2 above) - and if nothing OUTSIDE God is cause for the INTENTION of his actions to change (3 above) - it follows that God must have a single unchanging INTENTION for all his actions.
That means that it isn't for example possible for God's justice to be at one moment restorative - and the next moment retributive. Only one of these can exist - or neither. To determine the intention behind God's justice we must look at the central event of Christianity - which is a full expression of God's character - the cross. It shows us that God's intention behind his justice is to restore. Therefore - based on the logic above - the intention of God's holiness is to restore, the intention of God's mercy is to restore, the intention of God's grace is to restore. The intention OF GOD is always to if possible restore.
This is the case even in respect of people in hell - the only difference in the case of people in hell is that restoration isn't possible (that's the whole point of there being a hell - it is for those who prove to be irredeemable).
Below are two bible passages which prove that God's intention does not change even in the case of people whose sin is free, knowing, and wilful:
Ezekiel 33:11 ESV
Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?
Lamentations 3:31-33 ESV
For the Lord will not cast off forever, but, though he cause grief, he will have compassion according to the abundance of his steadfast love; for he does not afflict from his heart or grieve the children of men.
PS The fact that Tom Wright presents the cross as not being all love is not an accident. He is a false teacher. Premier find people like Tom - they promote people only if those people are as committed to redefining the character of God as Premier.
16:07 Greek is in singular form. "sin" not sins of the world.
Jesus like us some of us when we died the spirit go back to God and the body return to the ground and the body we now have will not be in heavens according to the Bible
8:22 - Why does the condemnation of sin require something to die? I can condemn behaviors without beating someone up or spilling blood, so why can't God? And why can't God just FORGIVE sin? He does this several times in the Old Testament, and Jesus told us to just forgive people, with no sacrifice. In Psalm 78:36-39, God simply forgives people who sinned against him, no sacrifice required. Hosea 6:6 says that God desires steadfast love and NOT sacrifice. Second Chronicles 7:14 says that God will forgive his peoples’ sins if they simply turn from their wicked ways and seek him. And Micha 6:6-8 specifically says that sacrifice is not required, and that all you need to do is follow god. Shall I come before the Lord with burnt offerings, thousands of rams, or my firstborn child? No, the Lord requires nothing but that you do justice, love kindness, and walk humbly with God.
God does forgive and he tells us to forgive also. And we are supposed to forgive. But the question is ‘how? ’There is always a payment.
If someone slaps me and I decide to forgive them. What happens to the offence and the offender?
God asks me to absorb that justice that should be handed out to the offender. Basically I pay. (So long as the offender is genuinely sorry. Contrite)
Did you think the prodigal son got let off free. Someone had to pay. Who do you think paid for his transgressions.
Likewise God the son, on the cross, absorbs the justice that should fall upon all those he forgives.
Therefore God can forgive and remain just. Justice is one of his attributes. He cannot just sweep debts under a rug and forget about it.
@@lucasr8216 The OP is specifically asking why this debt has to be settled by the shedding of blood and he pointed to certain verses where blood sacrifice was not needed for forgiveness. Your response doesn't address the questions that were actually raised.
Even the Old Testament sacrifices were not enough to ultimately pardon sin. Romans 3:21-26 tells us God passed over the sins previously committed, anticipating and applying the redemption that was coming through Christ to those who "believed God and it was credited to them as righteousness."
@@ericmehlhausen6164 - Well that contradicts the Old Testament passages I cited. Are you saying that God lied to us in those passages? God lied about not requiring a sacrifice? God lied in Psalm 78 when he claimed to simply forgive people? I'm sorry, but if you take the Old Testament seriously, then you'll have to say that God lied, or that Paul is simply making up excuses (bad excuses) for why Jesus's death happened.
oh death where is your sting
The state of the dead, according to the word of God.
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof *thou shalt surely die*
{Genesis 2:17}
Man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
...
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their *sleep*
O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, *until thy wrath be past* that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait,
👉till my change come.
...
His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.
{Job 14:10, 12-14 & 21}
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in *my flesh* shall I see God.
{Job 19:26}
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, *nor knowledge nor wisdom* in the grave, whither thou goest.
{The Preacher 9:10}
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; *in that very day his thoughts perish*
{Psalm 146:3-4}
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he *sleep* he shall do well.
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."
{John 11:12-14}
...
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection
👉at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet *shall* he live:"
{John 11:24-25}
But go thou thy way till the end be: for *thou shalt rest* and stand in thy lot *at the end of the days*
{Daniel 12:13}
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him *should not perish* but have everlasting life.
{John 3:16}
And *the serpent said* unto the woman, *Ye shall not surely die*
{Genesis 3:4}
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down *in the midst of the stones of fire*
{Ezekiel 28:14}
^
(satan always turns the tables on God, for he is the father of lies.)
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. *Who* among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
*He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly he that despiseth the gain of oppressions that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil*
{Isaiah 33:14-15}
If anyone errors in their understanding of this doctrine of the dead, then they will in no way be led to the understanding of the truth, for it will be a stumblingblock unto the decernment of spiritual things, including soilterology and eschatology.
Hades…. Jesus went to Hades…..not hell, learn the difference.
When Jesus rose he was seen by hundreds who then gave their lives because they preached about Him as the way and the truth to eternal life. The truth always rises to the surface. Keep showing the love and life only available through Jesus.
I really respect NT Wright but some of his answers here a bit suss - Jesus wasn’t just symbolically taking on sin, he actually did… or else his sacrifice becomes a bit placid doesn’t it
In citing several verses which tells who Jesus was Mr Wright doesn't actually go as far as admitting it. For example, sin was condemned in Jesus's flesh (Romans 8:3) and Hebrews 2:14 saying he shared in our nature so that he might destroy the devil (sin). Elsewhere we are told that Jesus was made sin for us (2 Cor 5:21) and that he bore our sins (1 Peter 2:24). There is nothing mystical about all this. Jesus was a man in nature and as a man he had to fight against sin throughout his life (not just the wilderness temptation). This task was made easier by the fact that he was also the Son of God, had a special relationship with his Father and was given the Holy Spirit in abundance. Because of Jesus's fight against sin Mr Wright wanted to call him our representative but chose the mutually exclusive term representational substitute. As a representative he had sin latent within him like we do but as a substitute the focus is on the punishment i.e. death and not the crime 'sin'. What God wanted was a sinless man to destroy sin within him - it would have to be a lamb of his own choosing because he knew any other man could not do it. This is the righteousness of God. If Jesus was a substitute he should be dead since the wages of sin is death. A trinitarian may struggle with Jesus having a sinful nature because of the connect between God and sin.
Mr Wright gave some encouragement by saying he tries to consider doctrine from a 1st century apostles creed perspective. But allusions to the trinity ( a much later inclusion by the Roman church) and going to heaven on death when the hope of the believer is clearly resurrection from the dead (1 Cor 15) did nothing to substantiate his claim.
The ONLY WAY in which I can "rationalize" or "make sense" of the Christian CLAIM that "God" "sacrificing" "himself to himself" would be too think that for a "God" to become a "Man" is ITSELF such an UN-NATURAL, insulting, un-merited, LOWERING HUMILIATION, that it goes BEYOND a mere "sacrifice" which can only be done "equal to equal" for the benefit of one. In other words, the only way I could make LOGIC out of what I think is an ABSURD tale, is to suggest that what the Christian HAS TO CLAIM, that "God" making a sacrifice is the ultimate VIOLATION of both the NATURAL HIERARCHY of the universe and of logic and morality themselves, that the fact he does it "too himself" is like "Another Act of Creation" and therefore "ok" because it is "His Will." Without seeing it as beyond a sacrifice, something that we should RIGHTLY object too as not only un-just but irrational, could we "rationalize" it. For to see it as a normative "sacrifice" within the bounds of logic, leads to the atheist conclusion, "He merely had a bad weekend." Which is what it looks like.
I’m not a goat herder. However, it seems like a domesticated goat banished into the wilderness would be eaten by wild animals. Why would
You need sheepdogs and shepherds if the wilderness was safe for sheep and goats. Goats are better at self defense compared to sheep, but goats are still preyed upon in the wilderness.
And also in the same section of Deuteronomy it does talk about whole sin burn offerings. I don’t know why there is one to be sent out into the wilderness, but regardless, there are sin offerings which do get killed (obviously for sin) That’s not to say I am for penal satisfaction wholeheartedly - only that it is not as simple as the animal for sin gets sent out into the wilderness and none are killed for sin.
Sin is placed on the goat and the goat is sent out into the chaos where it belongs, outside of the presence of god
Another question where there is no definitive answer. Plenty have taken a "run at it" and many more will.
How much evidence do you need that god is man made?
Premiere unbelievable, Jesus took our sins, and the penalty for sin is Spiritual death, and the penalty for Spiritual death is Hell.
Jesus went to Hell as in Hades the same Greek word and place as Lk 16: 22--25.
I've heard many commend NT Wright. This video shows this idea is greatly misplaced. He finds that modern people are offended by the Gospel and then tries to explain the Gospel in a way that won't cause offence. The end result is explanations that confuse, muddy and deny orthodox Christian doctrine. Apostolic preaching that people must flee from the wrath of God, that we are by nature children of wrath won't get a mention.
You don't get it....
These religious mystics are a dime a dozen. It’s easy to create any narrative to make it fit one’s beliefs.
This guy is a top..down..story teller.
Funny. I’ve seen him give a number of reasoned argument. Arguments about why the universe exists all the way to was Jesus resurrected from the dead. All things that begin to exist. The universe began to exist .. the universe has a cause. Jesus was seen by witnesses after his death. His opponents acknowledged the empty tomb etc. The only people telling stories here are the deniers. Denial without warrant is irrational.
Bishop / Dr. Wright is quite possibly the most universally respected theologian in the world today. From literalist conservatives to Jesus Seminar liberals, every academic that I have heard or read respects Wright and acknowledges his extraordinary expertise in New Testament studies and history thereof.
But you call him "a dime a dozen."
Interesting.
The question itself shows a lack of understanding .
To put it another way, Christianity HAS TO CONFESS from the start that "IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE." Since when does "a GOD" make "sacrifices." A "god" or a "GOD" is something you SACRIFICE TOO. Christianity violates the central pre-condition of the natural order. By Having GOD violate his OWN ORDER, his OWN "nature." It's like trying to make logical an act that is illogical. A "God" may not lower himself to becoming a repulsive "human" much less "die." A God is "above it." The very story is illogical. It's like asking a King to be his own Serf.
He is too technical in his approach. Wayyyyy too technical. His explanations and rationale's are at the verge of RE-defining language itself or the very meaning of commong English words used in daily human language 🧐🧐🧐
Why can we not believe Jesus just died and was in the grave, simply dead.
Because of the cliffhanger: the absence of the corpse later on. This is crucial (pun intended) to the story of making him a superior being.
Because he’s God and the divine nature is united to the human nature.
It seems like the show ended before Wright could finish. Frustrating.
When Jesus died his Spirit go back to God but his natural body return to the ground
Jesus has many tickets to return, but never arrives.😄😁😛
Penal substitution is the wrong concept of the redemption. Vicarious satisfaction is. Read “What is Redemption” by Philippe De La Trinite. Jesus being God offer Himself up to pay for our sins out of love for us and God accepted this love from Jesus for they are love. Love in this sense has no logic. When we will love for the other, we do it for goodness sake and that’s the end. There is no logic for Christ to pay for our sins except out of love for us.
After listening to this clip: William Lane Craig is still right!
A man who say "we have to stand way back and rethink the whole thing" (11:20) regarding the atonement and a lot of other things, should be viewed with great skepticism. I can smell danger.
Are you afraid to rethink your beliefs?
Well, since Penal Substitution is a relatively recent model of atonement, it's important to go back beyond when it was invented. This is what I think he means when he says "rethink the whole thing". Penal substitution leads to a lack of answers and "We don't know what happened between the Cross and Resurrection". There are many different models of atonement, ranging from the original Christus Victor (which does answer what happened between the Cross and Resurrection), through various substitutionary theories, to the even more recent "Scapegoat atonement theory" by Rene Girard.
So, yes, I can understand that if you've only been taught Penal Substitution is the atonement, or just one idea of the atonement, then anyone who suggests there are others and we might need to rethink things, is seen as dangerous. That's okay though. Jesus' thinking and teaching was seen as dangerous - imagine collapsing the entire law into two rules: Love God, Love Others as Yourself... Many would have smelled danger at that point.
@@matthewarnold5531 I came across an article on The Gospel Coalition's website:
"Don't Tell Me N.T. Wright Denies "Penal Substitution"."
It put me in a little better mood, even though it was written in 2007. Whether he has changed his view after that, I am not sure.
@@svenskbibel I'm personally not a fan of the Gospel Coalition... they tend to have a viewpoint that excludes much pre-Reformation Christianity that doesn't agree with their dogmas.
If Jesus was a real person, and really died by crucifixion, he would have certainly been placed in an unmarked, possible mass grave like the rest of the criminals of the time.
Because he already had thousands of followers. Pilate found him innocent. he was just a coward. And he didn't like the pharisees anyway, so in a way, although he didn't feel guilt, he paid some honor to those who cared for jesus. Jesus wasn't any regular criminal. He was innocent in the eyes of Pilate and understood he didn't deserve death. And it was a follower of Jesus who asked pilate for Jesus body, joseph of Arimatea.
@@ricardochiesa9829"Well, no" - O ok that settles it😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@garethflook5706 there, I edited that part out since you just quoted the opening alone lol. And you should add more laughing emojis, they make your counterargument more logical. :D
Peter's description of Christ performing his salvific mission among the souls of the dead is carried by 1 Corinthians 15:29, where Paul describes the baptism performed for the souls of the Dead as evidence for faith in the resurrection of the dead. All the billions of souls who lived and died before hearing the message of Christ are given the opportunity to hear and accept the gospel of Christ on an equal footing with their descendants. God has the power to save all the souls he has created. He is a just and merciful God.
Joe Biden eating his ice cream 🍦
As usual a whole lot of flowery pompous words and not a lot of substance
Yeah, sure. You are cocked and loaded to fire off smarmy, condescending remarks. Maybe you should cultivate the habit of carefully, thoughtfully LISTENING instead. When your mind is racing ahead with contemptuous presuppositions, you rarely “hear” what is actually being said.
I say this as a cautious fan of NT Wright. I’m very interested in his take on things. Not at all convinced that he’s got it all right. Who does?
@@gregormann7 do the same yourself. I’ve been reading N T Wright for years and actually did ready theology. I have the right to say such things as I do hope sometimes for some good clear nuggets from the man as he is so bright, but seldom do.
For flesh and blood cannot enter heavens for the Bible and we all shall be changed from natural body to spiritual body whether we live or died