Gotta love Will's background images, the moving lantern on the ship background is great, but the snowing in this one is on point, esp with his beannie cap to sell it. 👍
I've built a thief rogue who is flavored as a Cleric or a Paladin. She has the soldier background (substituted Intimidation for Medicine). Battlefield Medic. She worships Ilmater, Tyr, and a few other patrons. She cares about the burial rights of others. The DM allows me to use a Quarterstaff to benefit from Sneak Attack despite lacking the finesse property. (I'll finish the video soon.. comment was written at 0:00)
So what made you play it as a rogue instead of a cleric or paladin? Props to your DM for letting you use the quarterstaff for sneak attack. That really won't break anything unless you start messing around with Polearm master. But even then it's only as broken as...well polearm master
@@MonstersMulticlass Yes but at that point it's basically the same as attacking with a short sword, and off hand attacking with a dagger, which now that you gave me the idea! lol. My DM invoked rule zero over my character being able to use acid as a bonus action. oh yeah update about my campaign. I won't be using any house rules, because I have two or three newish players and I don't want to confuse them
That's totally fair. When I play with new folks I throw all of my own homebrew rules out too. If they're brand new to TTRPGs it's enough to get them to understand stat vs stat mod and proficiency, let alone learning how short rests work in a town vs out of one.
I think assassin would be really fun to either pair with a genie warlock or dip into it for Bottled Respite. It wouldn't be the most practical but the rogue could take the party in their pocket and let them out after getting the crit.
I actually really like the the idea of making the Thief's reflexes a 3rd level ability. Because it can only happen once per combat it wouldn't feel like the rogue is dominating the action economy. As a DM I would not allow for the player to multiclass because getting taking levels in Fighter or Wizard sounds like it could easily get out of hand.
My first pen-and-paper character was a Rogue/Paladin (with a lil bending of the alignment rules) flavored very middle-eastern in a way that totally wasn't just a shameless rip-off of Assassin's Creed. Still love the character's versatility, with skills and spells and the Smite+Sneak Attack. He wasn't very GOOD but really fun to play.
Think of Magic Thief as casting a hybrid of Counterspell and Modify Memory (that only lasts 8 hours). The rogue being able to cast the spell is the janky part, but I just imagine them picking up how the spell was cast and mimicking it as a sort of "bootleg spell" until they lose the knack of it. Alternately, you can flavor it as a special trinket like a bottle or flask that they use to "catch" the spell for 8 hours.
Love your guys's's's retrospectives! Welcome yet again to my comment chronicles where I write everything I'm thinking as I watch. (now with relevant time stamps!) 27:30 no lean in! I'm working on my Rogue rework and strongly considering making them the "Opportunity Attack Class". Opportune Strike fits well. 31:35 Potions of Healing are a bit different because they're magic items, but mundane items that include "as an Action, you can..." are clarified in Sage Advice to be the Use an Object Action. The most common examples are Caltrops and Ball bearings. Magic Items use a different Action to activate. (That said, potions as Bonus Actions is a fairly common House Rule) --weird addition, they clarified that the Artificer's Spell Storing Item uses the Use an Object Action to activate. So either a Multiclass or team could have a Thief casting a few spells as a BA (nothing crazy from when I remember looking) 36:30 the most powerful use for UMD I see a lot is Staff of the Woodlands. It's a Druid item, Rare, +2 Quarterstaff with +2 to spell attacks, can turn into a tree, and you can cast some spells from it using charges. Most importantly though, you can cast Pass Without Trace for free. So the Thief with no spells can indefinitely Concentrate on PWT for an extra +10 to Stealth Checks (so at level 13 probably like a +25 total?) 38:10 you can definitely have Initiative of 0 or less! (played a Dex dump before). It just means you go later there's no real need for a floor (if the Rogue somehow rolled below a 10 anyway it's important they go after anyone with a Nat 1 for their second turn) 43:40 Yes! I love Disadvantage on Init (and more things frankly) when Surprised. Helps Assassins a lot too 56:55 Why not a high saving throw DC? Rogues get that extra ASI yo! 1:05:55 Mastermind is the Moriarty to the Sherlock Holmes that is Inquisitive. 1:14:50 Ahh the "Find Traps" of Class Features (yeahhhh Will you get it) 1:17:30 I feel like an example of that sort of "integrate into the locals" thing is Wayne from the Wax and Wayne part of the Mistborn series by Brando Sando. He uses articles of clothing and different accents to make people trust him 1:23:45 There _can_ be cover for a melee attack with cover for another Creature. if the attack has Reach (which a lot of big monsters at these levels start to) ----Also a note about the optional cover rule, if it's a Creature providing the cover, the attack has to miss the the target because of the cover, but also exceed the AC of the "cover creature" 1:24:20 I can't believe they failed the Mastermind so hard here. It's so easy. "If an attack benefitting from your Master of Tactics feature hits, the attack deals additional damage equal to 3d6 (to be in line with Inquisitive)" ----Corollary, a buff to the Master of Tactics: "This feature grants Advantage to a number of attacks equal to your Intelligence modifier" or something like that. Some scaling number of extra uses, to make it compete with other Cunning Actions more 1:38:50 man... like... "when you hit a target with an attack that benefits from your Rakish Audacity feature, you may make a Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to add additional flourish to the blow. The DC of the check equals 10 + the target's AC. On a success, the attack deals an additional 3d6 damage. On a failure, the damage is reduced by 3d6" (be in line with Inquisitive, utilize Elegant Maneuver too. DC high because they can have like a +17 to their Acrobatics so Reliable Talent means they basically can't fail against an AC 17 target)
Wayne from mistborn was my reason for sticking up for that feature at all Love these thoughts as always! And the time stamps actually let me have context when I forget what we were talking about heh
Great Episode! I have to say (and I know this wasn’t your argument, you just brought up a common complaint) but I think that the “super-hero-ification of D&D” is such a trite grumble vocalized by grognards.
@@MonstersMulticlass yeah but the movement of the habd should be enough to let you hold it behind you or poison for a surprise attack idk maybe I'm wrong
Holding it behind your back the whole time might work. It's one of those tricks that may work on beasts or less intelligent creatures. But at some point people will figure it out.
@@MonstersMulticlass well either way it's pretty cool that you could do that now we just need two mage hands lol just dr octavious a gnome or something 🤣.
@@MonstersMulticlass No worries at all. Everybody has different pronunciations until they settle on a common one (for the most part... looking at you Gif)
![OsamaSon - ik what you did last summer [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4DIQDnu3mr4/mqdefault.jpg)
Gotta love Will's background images, the moving lantern on the ship background is great, but the snowing in this one is on point, esp with his beannie cap to sell it. 👍
The artist is linked in the description! You should check them out
I've built a thief rogue who is flavored as a Cleric or a Paladin. She has the soldier background (substituted Intimidation for Medicine). Battlefield Medic.
She worships Ilmater, Tyr, and a few other patrons. She cares about the burial rights of others.
The DM allows me to use a Quarterstaff to benefit from Sneak Attack despite lacking the finesse property.
(I'll finish the video soon.. comment was written at 0:00)
So what made you play it as a rogue instead of a cleric or paladin?
Props to your DM for letting you use the quarterstaff for sneak attack. That really won't break anything unless you start messing around with Polearm master. But even then it's only as broken as...well polearm master
@@MonstersMulticlass Yes but at that point it's basically the same as attacking with a short sword, and off hand attacking with a dagger, which now that you gave me the idea! lol.
My DM invoked rule zero over my character being able to use acid as a bonus action.
oh yeah update about my campaign. I won't be using any house rules, because I have two or three newish players and I don't want to confuse them
That's totally fair. When I play with new folks I throw all of my own homebrew rules out too.
If they're brand new to TTRPGs it's enough to get them to understand stat vs stat mod and proficiency, let alone learning how short rests work in a town vs out of one.
I think assassin would be really fun to either pair with a genie warlock or dip into it for Bottled Respite. It wouldn't be the most practical but the rogue could take the party in their pocket and let them out after getting the crit.
It's such a shame how long it takes to get bottled respite. Love that combo though
I actually really like the the idea of making the Thief's reflexes a 3rd level ability. Because it can only happen once per combat it wouldn't feel like the rogue is dominating the action economy. As a DM I would not allow for the player to multiclass because getting taking levels in Fighter or Wizard sounds like it could easily get out of hand.
My first pen-and-paper character was a Rogue/Paladin (with a lil bending of the alignment rules) flavored very middle-eastern in a way that totally wasn't just a shameless rip-off of Assassin's Creed.
Still love the character's versatility, with skills and spells and the Smite+Sneak Attack. He wasn't very GOOD but really fun to play.
Think of Magic Thief as casting a hybrid of Counterspell and Modify Memory (that only lasts 8 hours).
The rogue being able to cast the spell is the janky part, but I just imagine them picking up how the spell was cast and mimicking it as a sort of "bootleg spell" until they lose the knack of it.
Alternately, you can flavor it as a special trinket like a bottle or flask that they use to "catch" the spell for 8 hours.
Love your guys's's's retrospectives! Welcome yet again to my comment chronicles where I write everything I'm thinking as I watch. (now with relevant time stamps!)
27:30 no lean in! I'm working on my Rogue rework and strongly considering making them the "Opportunity Attack Class". Opportune Strike fits well.
31:35 Potions of Healing are a bit different because they're magic items, but mundane items that include "as an Action, you can..." are clarified in Sage Advice to be the Use an Object Action. The most common examples are Caltrops and Ball bearings. Magic Items use a different Action to activate. (That said, potions as Bonus Actions is a fairly common House Rule)
--weird addition, they clarified that the Artificer's Spell Storing Item uses the Use an Object Action to activate. So either a Multiclass or team could have a Thief casting a few spells as a BA (nothing crazy from when I remember looking)
36:30 the most powerful use for UMD I see a lot is Staff of the Woodlands. It's a Druid item, Rare, +2 Quarterstaff with +2 to spell attacks, can turn into a tree, and you can cast some spells from it using charges. Most importantly though, you can cast Pass Without Trace for free. So the Thief with no spells can indefinitely Concentrate on PWT for an extra +10 to Stealth Checks (so at level 13 probably like a +25 total?)
38:10 you can definitely have Initiative of 0 or less! (played a Dex dump before). It just means you go later there's no real need for a floor (if the Rogue somehow rolled below a 10 anyway it's important they go after anyone with a Nat 1 for their second turn)
43:40 Yes! I love Disadvantage on Init (and more things frankly) when Surprised. Helps Assassins a lot too
56:55 Why not a high saving throw DC? Rogues get that extra ASI yo!
1:05:55 Mastermind is the Moriarty to the Sherlock Holmes that is Inquisitive.
1:14:50 Ahh the "Find Traps" of Class Features (yeahhhh Will you get it)
1:17:30 I feel like an example of that sort of "integrate into the locals" thing is Wayne from the Wax and Wayne part of the Mistborn series by Brando Sando. He uses articles of clothing and different accents to make people trust him
1:23:45 There _can_ be cover for a melee attack with cover for another Creature. if the attack has Reach (which a lot of big monsters at these levels start to)
----Also a note about the optional cover rule, if it's a Creature providing the cover, the attack has to miss the the target because of the cover, but also exceed the AC of the "cover creature"
1:24:20 I can't believe they failed the Mastermind so hard here. It's so easy. "If an attack benefitting from your Master of Tactics feature hits, the attack deals additional damage equal to 3d6 (to be in line with Inquisitive)"
----Corollary, a buff to the Master of Tactics: "This feature grants Advantage to a number of attacks equal to your Intelligence modifier" or something like that. Some scaling number of extra uses, to make it compete with other Cunning Actions more
1:38:50 man... like... "when you hit a target with an attack that benefits from your Rakish Audacity feature, you may make a Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to add additional flourish to the blow. The DC of the check equals 10 + the target's AC. On a success, the attack deals an additional 3d6 damage. On a failure, the damage is reduced by 3d6" (be in line with Inquisitive, utilize Elegant Maneuver too. DC high because they can have like a +17 to their Acrobatics so Reliable Talent means they basically can't fail against an AC 17 target)
Wayne from mistborn was my reason for sticking up for that feature at all
Love these thoughts as always! And the time stamps actually let me have context when I forget what we were talking about heh
Great Episode!
I have to say (and I know this wasn’t your argument, you just brought up a common complaint) but I think that the “super-hero-ification of D&D” is such a trite grumble vocalized by grognards.
I think the subclasses are a reflection of how d&d has been played more than any push from the creators
if your mage hand was already holding a health potion during combat could you use a bonus action to have your mage hand feed you a health potion?
Yes but I'd also let the enemy target that potion.
@@MonstersMulticlass yeah but the movement of the habd should be enough to let you hold it behind you or poison for a surprise attack idk maybe I'm wrong
Edit hand*
Holding it behind your back the whole time might work. It's one of those tricks that may work on beasts or less intelligent creatures. But at some point people will figure it out.
@@MonstersMulticlass well either way it's pretty cool that you could do that now we just need two mage hands lol just dr octavious a gnome or something 🤣.
Rakish! GAAAAH, Oh thank goodness, they got there
Genuinely never knew it was pronounced like Rake until now. Someone would have correctly me/us earlier
@@MonstersMulticlass No worries at all. Everybody has different pronunciations until they settle on a common one (for the most part... looking at you Gif)
I say jif and honestly part of it is stubbornness to upset people