Do you need a headphone amp for mixing on headphones in 2022? (Inc my new Topping L30)
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- BEST BUDGET HEADPHONE AMP FOR MIXING ON HEADPHONES 2021?? || Topping L30 headphone amplifier review
Mixing on headphones has become so popular these days to the point where mixing engineers and audio engineers alike are investing in expensive studio headphones and even high fidelity hi-res audio headphone amps to drive their budget headphones for more clarity, transients and depth.
I purchased the topping L30 headphone amplifier on ebay for under £100 and i was advised the topping over spl phonitor and rupert neve. For the price the topping offers high resolution audio and also more power for driving planar headphones.
All you require is 240V AC adapter power and 2 RCA to 1/4 TS audio cables (mines are neo oyaide d+ RTS class B)
I connect the topping via the audient id14 audio interface line outs. I also use the audient mixer software to control my input levels from the computer into the DAC. In comparison to the audient headphone outs the topping has less THD+N and has a lot more dynamic range.
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📖 CHAPTERS
0:00 intro
1:38 topping vs audient headphone outs
2:49 why buy a headphone amplifier?
5:48 Does it matter if the listener cant hear it?
6:51 Will it automatically improve your mixes?
8:06 How to gain stage your monitoring
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FWI.. There has been some talk that there was an issue a while back with a certain run of L30's malfunctioning and blowing up. I've been told this was sorted and any faulty units were replaced by topping but they were very isolated cases apparently.
I've spoke to four L30 users and no issues. No issues with mine either. As a precaution though I would advice not switching your headphone amp on with your headphones connected. Best to be over cautious 🤓
Great video... encouraging second hand minimal gear to achieve the results is the way to go! I recently upgraded to modified DT150s with mixpre 6 to drive them and was amazed at the extra detail.
Totally. I have a new enjoyment at listening to music again. It's like somebody opened the curtains haha
Hey mate! Thanks for the video. Is it really ok to use a dual ts to TRS stereo cable to connect the line outs on an audio interface to a headphone amp? I heard it may harm the outputs since you would be linking the two outputs like this, and the impedance on the headphone amp aux input wouldn’t be enough to absorve it, so they would impact each other. Couldn’t find anything about it in the internet, so if you could help me here would be awesome. Thanks!
Now that's timing! Just ordered a Topping A30 Pro HP amp today. Should be a nice step up from my Audient id22 hp amp.
Let me know how you get on when it comes 🤓
@@PaulThird It's here and my gosh. I knew I had been using low impedance cans with a high impedance amp but with the Topping amp mixes just open up, details are easier to pick out and separation is so much better. Improved the rather harsh and weird frequency response that I was getting before.
How much music are you listening to now? haha I was all day 😂
@@PaulThird let's just say im stuck relistening all of my favourites right now😂
Yup it's nuts the stuff you can hear on top end headphones. Love my KG712's, going back and forth from them and consumer level ones is like night and day. On the KG712 you can hear all the imperfections pre-editing phase you can't on lower grade headphones. I am driving them through my ID14... looks like I need to invest in an amp for them if I can get my cans sounding better. Damn you Paul haha!
There are still some on ebay haha 😜
Thanks for your video! May I ask what headphones do you use?
Used to be bose qc ii but I'm now using flatter planar headphones 🤓
I promise you, you will learn to hate that detail. It's distracting.. it takes (me) years to be able to judge a mix on my (very expensive) headphones. Be sure to always double-check your sanity by listening to your mixes on something else.. this is not as important with mediocre headphones, but once you have all the detail and all the width and all the clarity that comes with a price. Since there is so much "space" in these headphones everything has a spot.. nothing clashes (well it does, but it's way harder to perceive). And that's why it's paramount to check your mixes on a system that is not high-end. Even if you are 10 times as talented a mixer it will take you a lot of mixes to really understand the new problems this new potential comes with. But for now: enjoy.. I'm not trying to ruin your fun. Just a gentle heads up
That's why I've kept the bose headphones. I can still go into the audient headphone output at any time and the bose are also wireless so I can check stuff on walks as well 🤓
agree, the "bigger picture" visible via speakers in a room is even more important when mixing
You're missing dSoniq room and headphone calibration. That makes it more realistic with all the cross talk reflections etc...shaves off highs.... Tons of rooms speakers and options to check.
@@levondarratt787 I've thought multiple times about that. And every single time I reach the conclusion that it's a load of bull. My headphones are designed to judge mixes professionally by the manufacturer - why would I trust a headphone calibration over the manufacturer? The manufacturer spent a lot more time on the headphones, he (should) know better. When it comes to rooms (which only make sense with calibration) I think that's not the way to go.. because either people are listening on headphones or in rooms. So I mix on my headphones and I check on my speakers. What sounds great on my headphones WILL sound great in a perfect room. The 30 Dollar-Speaker test tells me how it translates to everything else. If you really want to go the extramile play it on your smartphone and convert it to mono once.. but come on now.. that's not how the music I mix is supposed to be listened to anyway.
So unless an engineer is only used to mixing in rooms but for some reason can't use his studio and has to mix on headphones I can not recommend mixing in virtual rooms and calibrating your (professional-grade) headphones. Sure, if your headphones are bad, you may want to think about that. But then again I'd recommend getting better headphones in the first place.
@@akagerhard I have to (somewhat) disagree. I use Sonarworks with my DT 1990 Pros, and it helps significantly. It tames the treble and boosts lower bass (I'll toggle between that for mixing, and stock sound for detail checking). But mileage may vary; some headphones are better without Sonarworks. (ATH-M40x for example)
For mixing, I prefer a headphone amp. The detail and accuracy helps me lay out the mix and hear exactly what's happening. But I still have to check with cheaper setups like you described
hey Paul I couldn't find any unit from topping that I could connect 2 1/4 inch headphones they all seem like single channel
WOW ! I just TODAY on my lunch break purchased the Audio Technica ATH r70 headphones and I purchased the Samson QH4 headphone preamplifier to go with it
whats the verdict now you've been using them?
@@PaulThird I only use the headphones bcuz my Digi Design 003 has a lot of power to make those headphones loud enough so I didn’t need the Samson headphone amplifier but the r70 are the best headphones I’ve had to date in terms of mixing. I have the KRK 8400 and those Audio Technica beats them. Bcuz the 8400 are closed back I use them for tracking when I’m recording my vocals. I use the IsoVox 2 to record my vocals
Hi Paul. I have the same ID14 as you and I was thinking about getting an external amp to run my Slate VSX headphones that have a 37 ohms impedance. I watched Julien Krause on the ID14 and his data showed it did better on higher impedance headphones than lower, stating with lower impedance headphones there was a drop off in lower frequencies. I guess I don't understand how that works?
You want the lowest impedance in your headphone amp (ideally below 2 ohm)
You need to ensure 2 things regarding headphone amps
1. Power
2. Linearity
If a lower impedance dynamic headphone (planars aren't affected) is put through a high impedance hp amp then you can end up with with dampening which affects the frequency response and also results in more distortion.
I was wondering about the same thing. Any experience with Slate VSX and Audient? Did you buy some other headphone amp?
Paul could you check out the SSL Native channelstrip and bus comp? (Sound, aliasing, comparison) would love your view on these plugins!
theres an ssl bus comp comparison I did with an SSL xlogic G bus comp. SSL native was in that shootout and it was the furthest away from the hardware which makes sense as SSL made the plugin. Just remember that its not really the best business sense to try and closely recreate hardware that you sell for thousands. kind of counter intuitive so I'm always wary when I see plugins made by the hardware manufacturer
@@PaulThird but don't you think that if you would make something that is very close to the original you would make more money in the long run? Don't forget that you have 0 manufacturing costs on plugins. You pay once the RnD and you sell as many copies as you want for 0 extra investment. If I would be the CEO of SSL I would try to make the best plugin possible by that logic. Just saying. :)
The best advice ever i can give is... Use few instruments for a song and first of all get the bass and kick work together first than adds up, also sound choice is very important... I'm no talking about the best guitar or the best bass possible.. I've learned the hard way that what make the difference in a song it's the details... in layering there are certain sounds that (in terms of frequency response) sounds better...ultimate use the same algo/sampled effects(especially reverb) and ... don't over do things. In general don't over do mixing or especially mastering!!! That's a general formula for everyone 🙂 keep up !
🤓🤓
While I agree that all a track really needs is drums and a lead - the rest is ear-candy. No, you don't need to start with kick and bass at all. Most great songs are written different.. lead and chords first (but that really depends on the genre, in Rap it's the other way around, usually.. the beat is basically done before the first line is written). But songwriting usually is a couple of chords that set a vibe and then the lead defines the groove with it's melody and emphasis, which then gets amplified by Drums and bass. Lead-Performance is a lot more important than details like backround harmonizations, little Drum alternations, Pad-Automations or complex reverb-chains - can't make up for it after the fact - it's there or it isn't. I think it's important to use different effects.. if you use the same effects on everything it is very likely your track will sound bad. Using different effects will help you get some separation and keep the ear interested. Yes it is important to put them all in one room.. but you can do that with the tiniest bit of send to a room (or chamber, or plate, spring, whatever) for every single element. Delays, Filters, Flange, Harmonizers, Distortion etc. can be different for every single scource.. that's not a problem at all.. all it needs is one or two elements tying them together.. usually that effect is a tiny splash of some reverb they all go to (but isn't the main verb of the single scources), mixbus-compression and of course overall volume- and frequency-balance.
Also I'm not a fan of generalizations. It always, always, always, always depends on the song. Some songs profit from intensive mixing and sometimes a song needs to be fixed in mastering for whatever reasons (especially when it's not your own and the mix can not be revisited, or when there is a deadline).
Ciao, how to calibrate the level of signal going to input headphone amp and its output volume too ? With nearfield I use a pinknoise and a phonemeter as usual. How for headphones ?
I use my interface. The audient stuff has meters on the interface so I normally set it to its highest setting without going into the red.
Think its -3db or whatever. With the audient you gain stage going in using the mixer software and then simply use the big knob to set your output level
It's amazing what good monitoring can reveal. The argument that it doesn't matter because most won't hear it is silly, as some will be listening on worse, and some will be listening on... better, or a specific flavour of 'worse' that still highlights some aspect of what you're doing that a different variety of 'worse' might not. Have a listen to the Spotify world top 50 and prepare to be depressed (at least I am), by how horribly crushed most of that stuff is. And prepare to appreciate the great mixers even more, as you say here, for mixing is an art as much as it is a science. It's always good to also check on lesser systems too, but eventually you will learn to work within this 'hi res' environment most of the time and have good judgement there. Ultimate next step -- a good control room with a good monitoring situation.
I have so much more respect for a lot of engineers now. Amazing the difference you hear. Its true though how much stuff is crushed eh? Especially noughties stuff. I was listening to a lot of big rap stuff around that time and the kicks just sound super distorted with not much definition. I was shocked by a lot of big hit records that went out in that genre. Maybe a genre specific thing but I always assumed they mostly wanted super tight punchy low end.
disagree.. not everything that requires some creativity is art. As a former artist, now mixer: It's not art, it's engineering. And people pay you for your competence first and your taste second. If you want to be closer involved to art becoming a producer is probably a better way to go. I know I'm being nitpicky, but that's just who I am :D.
@@PaulThird want to hear a rapmix you won't be able to beat in your lifetime (and if you do let me know! because I'll use it as reference-track)? She Luv It - UGK. But to be fair the production needs to be on a level to even have a shot at beating that.
Hi Paul. Thank you so much for your great video. I've just bought a ID14 MKII a few weeks ago... And 'I've just received the Topping L30 II I bought after seeing this video... I have a very good headphone (Neumann NDH30) and I was wondering if I could hear any difference between ID14 headphone output and the Topping L30 II one... And... It's amazing !!! Everything you told about... clarity, details in the top end, transients... I really hear the difference. Thank you so much for your suggestion. (Although, I'm autistic too)
🤜🤛
Hey, sorry for being late to the discussion. I want to by the Topping but I was think now about the gain staging as you said. I have a focusrite interface and I will try to go from the monitor out to the topping amp. How exactly did you check how loud should you go?
I really try to understand your routing and volume structure cuz for some reason it feels weird to me, haha. So just to check, you basically lower your output to the interface and from your PC and you push your monitors output from your interface to the topping to -3? I watched that part multiple times trying to figure out what do you lower and what do you boost. To get and healthy lvl into the topping.
I essentially gain stage the input going in so I ensure that the id14 is receiving optimal input and not overloading which in mine is -12.
I then raise the output going to the headphone amp. Theres not really a rule for the amount of level your outputing but I'd say just enough so you are not having to crank the headphone amp.
The main aim is to ensure that you aren't distorting the input signal in the DA conversion by going in too hot from the audio coming from your computer and also outputing a good level to the headphone amp.
See the D/A conversion as gainstaging and the interface to headphone amp as analog to analog
@@PaulThird Thank you so much. No I finally understood. Sorry for asking some clarification. I will buy it in a few days. I heard about the need of an amp for headphone some time ago but not a lot of people talk about it and because it is relatively cheap I wanna give it a try. Have a great day mate and thank you again.
How to connect headphone preamp Schist Vali 2 ++ to an audio interface Focusrite 18i20 and set settings in Focusrite control software?
Don't have either devices 🤷♂️ looking at them online you'd need to go trs to RCA like the topping. TRS Line outs of 18i20 to RCA inputs of schiit
Planning on getting the L50 for my Audient iD44 MKII. How can I connect it? This one is balanced and don't know about the cables needed or where is it plugged on the interface
Just get the L30ii. Best topping do and it's basically the same price give or take. All you would need is an RCA to TS cable. RCA topping, TS for line outs of interface.
Whatever headphone amp you use it's gonna have to utilise your interface line outs
@@PaulThird Thanks for the response Paul! Your channel is the only one talking about this things 💜
I thought I would upgrade audience id14mk2 and bought topping dx5 to drive my audeze lcd-x and honestly can say that there is no difference. Would topping l30 or l30 mk2 make any difference? Keeping in mind that lcd-x are 20ohm headphones they don't need much power and l30 is an amplifier.
Depends how loud you listen. I listen to all my headphones around 80-85db SPL and when I do that is when I hear the difference as the headphones are being properly driven. Planars need properly driven to get the most out of them, especially in the low end.
Planars aren't affected by impedance in headphone amps but you really hear the difference in distortion I find.
If you have dx5 you have no need for a headphone amp. My guess is you aren't listening loud enough to hear the difference
Hi，Paul！
我的声卡是Motu Ultralite AVB
我的耳机是Srh1840和HD650
请问购买Topping L30 II是否有提升？
That would work. I'd use the hd650 for mixing though over the shure
@@PaulThird Thanks for reply！
Yo Paul. I’m considering adding the topping l30 to my emu1820m. It’s headphone out is THD+N -70db (0.032%) and line outs are -105 (.0006%). Do you think it would make an impact given my specs?
I'd say so. You don't understand the difference in cleanliness until you upgrade to a super low THD headphone amp. The transients you'll probably hear as well. It's hard without hearing your interface but I just upgraded to the id44 and it's a lot better than the id14 mk1 and I'm still using the topping haha
@@PaulThird thanks for the reply! It seems my interface’s headphone out has worse specs than the line outs from dac so I can't wait to see what a difference it makes. It will be interesting to see what a decimal place or two of THD will do.
Got the Topping as an Xmas gift. Watched a tv episode first just to check it out and I could hear how far off axis of the mics the actors were, as well the natural reverbs of the sets. It removed a lot of mud that my stock interface had on the headphone out. You said it…clarity. Great pick, thanks for the advice Paul!
Would like to put in a request for a Slate VSX review :)
I would also like to request that slate send me one :) Haha 🤣
So you're going out from the line out of the audient into the topping? I have an evo 8 and I'm wondering if I would need another dac besides the amp I want to buy for my headphones. Thx
Yeah you go line outs of interface to RCA in of topping
@@PaulThird got it, but is the sound of the output of the audient good enough, in terms of conversion? I have something even cheaper than your interface, the EVO8, that's why I'm asking :)
If I were you on a budget I'd buy something like a topping dx3 pro+. That way you are covered for DAC and hp amp
Hi Paul. Do you recommends to buy an L30 or L50 having an Audient ID4 MKII? It is supposed to have its own dedicated AD for the headphones.
Audients are still not as clean as the topping though. I've now got the id44 and there is still quite an audible difference even though it has its own DAC. Not as big a difference as with the mk1 but still a big difference in transients
If it's purely for Headphones then topping l30 all day long. Cleaner, punchier and just more detail overall. The mk2 audient is still better than mk1 but not as good as the topping
@@PaulThird thanks for the info
@@PaulThird I don´t expect you to know the answer but do you think Zen Go Synergy Core headphone amp DAC would be similar to L30?
Nope. In Julian Krause's stats the HP outs actually measure worse in a lot of cases to id4 and id14. The zen go has high impedance like the audient but way less power. Those HP outs would be pretty useless for any planar headphone in terms of driving them. Doesn't perform better on THD+N either so not as clean either when compared to audient. long story short you'd be better with audient HP outs which are still lower quality than the topping.
Topping wins every time.
@@PaulThird Thanks again. You are a real influencer!
WTH! I wanna know which Planar Headphones you picked up. Was looking into getting a some new cans in that price point, as I typically do everything on my Focal's and NS10's w/sub. But, for at home and whatnot when I'm editing....I'd like to get some better can's for that. What did you get? Was curious about Planars as well instead of the typical dynamic headphones as I've heard the bass isn't as good on Planar's vs. Dynamic cans! And the bass would have to be there for me! Not because I listen to bass heavy music...I don't in any way. But because I have always been taught, and believe it 100% that getting the BASS frequencies, all across the mix in everything...is the hardest and most important part of an excellent mix. So...spill the beans....whatchu get? Audeze LCD1's? Can't think of many Planar's tbh, that my peers use. No one I know uses Planar's. They all use the Sennheiser 650's or 600 series of can's. Like all of them, well a few use the expensive Focal can's but that's more than I wanna spend on headphones, as I just use them for editing and whatnot. And there are of course the Hip Hop/EDM cat's, but that's totally different as that scene is more hype relevant IMO. Like Beats!!! And maybe checking things.
The planars I looked at were audeze which you mentioned, but also looked at hifiman, and monolith
That's all your getting 😂
Sorry but I promised I wouldnt tell people
An educated guess based on the hints given, he's using the Hifiman Sundara which is known to have a flat frequency response.
🤐🤐🤐🤐
Haha
If it’s not Sundara Paul has gotten then it could be Aventone Planar which is designed for pro / studio monitoring applications.
I'm enjoying people's guesses haha
I have a Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 interface. Putting such an amp between it and my Sennheiser HD650 headphones would probably make quite some difference?
I would like to know this as well. I have the first gen 18i20.
Focusrite 8i6 headphone spec
Dynamic Range 104dB (A-weighted)THD+N
@@weeschwee YES! Big fucking time! You should absolutely have a "Clean" headphone amp!!!!!! Especially for those cans! It won't be 1000% difference at all! But you will for sure be able to hear about a 30% difference, and in our game all those little differences add up! For instance changing your cord will cause you to have a 2%-10% difference on you headphones themselves! Especially if you go for a silver coated one, as silver conducts energy better than copper so less loss of details, especially in the high end, and the low end is more defined which can be important! Add up all the little pluses, and minuses and it makes a huge difference in the long run! Just like when you mix a song with 150 tracks. Each little thing you do adds up throughout the mix! See if you can find a used Furman
HDS-6/HR-6 Headphone Distribution Amp System. As this has been a secret go to system for tracking and mixing for years. And many "Pro's" still use it to this day! I do as well. And the great thing is those little mixing modules come in handy! Super handy! Just a thought. The only problem though with adding a Headphone amp, is that every single thing colour's your tone/sound! Even the cables! So adding an amp will colour your sound! Finding one that doesn't do it too much for your particular ear is either going to be impossible, or you'll get super lucky and hit right on the head( it's happened to me before, not often though, but still!) However not having your headphones pushed can be detrimental as well! All I'm saying is that YES you should have an amp, but finding a cheap one that is clean will be next to impossible! Cheap shit doesn't normally sound good in the mixing/mastering game! There are those very, very, rare diamonds in the ruff, but they are so few and rare that it's almost impossible to find. However nowadays it's way easier with the internet and new technology than it was 20yrs ago or 40yrs ago! Hell even 10yrs ago! So yeah especially with your cheaper Focusrite interface you for sure should get a headphone amp! But tbh! I'd just save and get a whole new interface if your gonna get serious one day! I could never get a good sound in my home studio until I ponied up the change to buy a professional interface that I've used in studios through my 20+years recording! It's super hard to say go from an SSL 9000J with a Pro Tools HD system to a home $200 interface and get it to sound the way it does in the studio! Next to impossible! I could take my recorded song into the studio, and just run it into the better converter and it would have more air top end, and tighter less muddy lows! But that was back in the early 2000's so it's much better nowadays, but it still is very different! Oh and no converter is 100% clean! That's hogwash if someone tells you that all converters should sound the same! Complete BS!
@@PaulThird Thanks for the detailed answer. Then i will check how to get one of these amps.
Links in description but there's plenty second hand on ebay 🤓
What planar headphone are you using with this? I have a hifiman sundara, and i'm thinking of getting L30.
I've been using sundaras for just over 2 years but just upgraded to Ananda nano last week
@@PaulThird thanks for your prompt reply! So you did pair L30 II with your sundaras and they worked well together? That's all I wanna know.
Really appreciate your response! Thanks
Yeah works amazing
Um hello, so i recently bought beyerdynamics dt770 pro 250 ohm, and since last week i was trying to figure out which audio iterface should i get. I only make electronic music i mean i dont need mic or guitar inputs so there was a thought in my head that maybe i should get an amp/dac. I also tried to ask some people from music shops in my town what should i get but there were mixed opinions. Now i found your videos and i want to ask you; should i get audient id4 or something from category like that topping l30?
Depends what your budget is. That's the main question
@@PaulThird well right now in my country i can get id4 for 130 euro and l30 for 140 euro
But i also noticed now how the l30 looks like from the back and uhh, dont know if its possible to connect it straight to the computer
Audient is an interface, l30 connects to the line outs of an interface. Get a topping DAC amp like a dx3 pro+
www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005900994376.html
Or get that if you want an interface with a very good headphone amp. Confirmed by Julian Krause
So where does Sienna come in to all of this? Are you suggesting you don't need headphone correction?
Cheers
Nah you still need headphone correction. It just means you can hear more details which mean you can hear more what the sienna algorithm is actually doing more.
In a sense it's almost like upgrading your speakers in their 'rooms'. The more detail you have and the cleaner the monitoring is the more you'll benefit from their spaces.
The quality of your sienna, waves nx, canopener, dear vx experience is going to be dependent on the quality of your headphone monitoring.
Kinda like buying a ultra HD movie and watching it through through a standard HD TV haha you can still watch the movie and itll still look great but your not getting the full picture and detail. That's kinda how I see headphone amps compared to an audio interface headphone amp
The detail that each room results in with sienna may blurred slightly in comparison to the detail you have through the headphone amp + better headphones
How is the amp now compared with your id44 headphone outs?
Still better. Not as massive a jump as id14 mk1 but still a big jump in transients and still cleaner.
@@PaulThird thank you! How about that planar headphone with sonarworks does it still sound better then your old boses. I have a id22 and dt990 pro headphones I use the headphone amp of my old tascam controller interface cause it sounds so much better. Do you think upgrading my headphones would benefit me even icm with sonarworks. I want to upgrade my monitoring on krk rokit 8g1 with s10 g3 sub. The cost easily add up so I'm hoping to get away to upgrading my headphones in that case. What's your take and opinion. What can you advise? If I'd go monitor upgrades it would be the the cheap focal 5" (before the Evo update) thomann is selling them at a great price.
What about the mighty Grace m900m?
Out my price range haha 😅
Hey Paul. Thanks for the video. Just wondering. I have Hifiman Anandas. I'm looking to buy the ID4 and combine them with this amp. They are 25 Ohms. The impedance on this is 20ish Ohms and on the Amazon listing for the L30 is says they have an Impedance of 20 ohms in preamp mode too. I'm new to this. That seems to be (with my limited understanding) an unworkable setup for my low ohm headphones. Is that right or am I missing something? Really appreciate any advice. Can't find anything online and I've tried.
You don't use the topping in preamp mode
@@PaulThird I see. The name of that mode is a bit confusing then, being that It's a headphone preamp. So 25ohms = no problem for this thing?
Thanks man.
Also, while I (potentially) have you here for a second: Do you think the Id4 is a worthwhile upgrade over a Gen 3 Scarlett in terms of A2D/mic pre and headphone amp?
Thanks again.
The topping has an output impedance of 0.1 ohm
"High output current drive capability allows the amp driving low impedance headphones with ease."
Use it in preamp mode you are talking 20 ohm but you wouldn't use it in preamp mode unless you wanted to add colour to what you are hearing for whatever reason.
You want transparency in your monitoring so I never use preamp mode
The audient is sending audio through the line outs into the line ins of the topping which is outputing to the headphones. Your interface is simply acting as if it were sending audio out to speakers.
Most lower priced audio interfaces seem to have lower quality headphone DAC's from what I've found. Higher impedance and higher distortion levels and some don't even have their own headphone DAC so for me working with a headphone amp the quality of my main output signal is the most important as that's what the amp is receiving.
Audient have some of the cleanest mic pres on the market and pretty sure they all use the same ones regardless of model so I'd always go for audient
Noticed there was a worrying product recall on this model of headphone amp - worth check that our eBay purchase isn’t one of the affected ones - would be sad to destroy your lovely new headphones!
Yeah I pinned a comment about it when I uploaded the video. Think it was a certain serial number but I think most were replaced and they were isolated cases. If you had that serial number topping were giving you a free replacement, well that's what I read somewhere.
As a safeguard I'm not switching the amp on with the headphones connected. Better to me safe than sorry 🤓
Bro i have dt 990 pro 250 ohm and i music with it. And i don't know what amplifier should I buy
Topping l30 mk2. Works perfectly with any headphone
@@PaulThird with audio interface or without?
@@PaulThird I use it for music production. Not for lestining
The l30 mk2 only works with audio interface as it recieves audio from the interface line outs. Depends on your budget. I use the topping dx7 pro+ as my main DAC and amp. UA apollo x6 for recording, topping for playback
Feast your ears on "Happiness is Easy" by Talk Talk. You should initiate a quiz for "fave reference tracks"... I need some new ones 😁
ive still not found any yet haha
How you connect topping L30 into audient id 14 ?
2 line outs of interface (TS) to RCA in of topping
@@PaulThird connect RCA cable to topping l30 input or output ?
You need two TS to RCA cables
Just ordered the black Topping L30 for £70 un-used of eBay.
Kinda wondering why the seller never used it???
Mines was the same. Unused in the box. I thought the same but it works absolutely fine 🤓
@@PaulThird
Hope so? 🤔
Been having some bad luck with eBay ov l8 and the extortionate return items prices. 🤦🏾♂️
@@PaulThird
Quick question, does the L3 need E30 DAC??
Yes plain and simple a good headphone is better than any or most in budget interfaces and even some on high end units. Dealing with the resistance and drive factor is not easy feat for a basic headphone amplifier
True. That's why loads are buying toppings now
@@PaulThird it still begs the question why people use headphones. I get it in small places, no acoustic treatment and low on funds but even the best headphones does not convey the proper stereo image, the depth and the balance good monitors can. People should learn to use both.
Cause over 80% of your audience is listening on headphones or buds. Why predominantly mix for a massively underused listening platform 🤷♂️ you mix for the clients audience.
one of my biggest mentors has very expensive monitors in a well treated room and specifically chooses to mix between sundaras and VSX. The monitors are a secondary reference and he gets millions of streams every year. Arguably the biggest mixer/mastering engineer in Turkey. Award winning and mixes predominantly on headphones.
Labels don't ask any questions and there's no issues with him mixing and mastering on headphones. I dunno if that's maybe an advantage for him compared to other mixers in Turkey. His ear and skill come first but he's one of the reasons I trust mixing on headphones
@@PaulThird Yes most kids, adolescences and young adults do listen on headphones or ear buds but mixing on them does not create a better mix for those devices, knowing their design limitations and characteristics do. Top engineers in the world will use headphones only as a secondary or tertiary source of monitoring. You know that Mr. Third!
How can mixing on a different platform possibly translate better than mixing on the intended platform? That doesn't make any sense to me. By mixing on headphones your mix will translate best on headphones. I don't think there's any science behind why a monitor mix would translate better on headphones. I'm mixing on headphones.. So I know how it's gonna translate primarily on headphones
Emrah is one of the top engineers in Turkey. Award winning. All I need is one successful engineer to prove to me that mixing on headphones work.
You only need one to break the "rule" to show that it's possible. This is a guy beating some of the best analog guys in Turkey on headphones AND completely itb.
I understand that many top mixers mix on expensive monitors in good rooms. It's worked for decades. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that mixing on headphones work great as well. Scheps proved it as well. Moved to mixing on his sonys.
Its a different world now compared to 80's, 90's and early naughties. Technology has advanced and mixing for headphones, buds, laptops, phone speakers has become of great importance where it wasn't before.
I think the idea that mixing primarily on headphones in 2023 isn't a viable option is a very naive mindset. This is just one of many audio "rules" that will continue to play out until more headphone mixers come on the scene.
The top 3 mixers in the world (ghenea, Spike and manny) have been mixing in the best rooms for decades. In a time when it was absolutely necissary. People had hifis, listened on radio etc etc
As long as these guys remain top of the tree you will see monitor mixes cause.. Why would they change when theyve taught themselves to mix that way.. And it works for them. Same with emrah. Why should he move to his monitors when his headphone mixes are getting approved without issue.
Give it another 10-20 years you'll see WAY more headphone mixes in the top 10.
I see both methods as viable mixing methods and I choose to mix on headphones, makes sense to me and i will continue to even when I get my new studio.
Its my choice and if my future clients are happy, the labels are happy then it doesn't matter which method was used. That's the reality
is the id44 amp good?
Not really
@@PaulThird thanks bro
Wait until you hear all McCartney's crazy bass runs and glides and slides and...just listen to I Want You (She's So Heavy) on Abbey Road.
(Remastered, obviously)
Did ya hear that before? I didn't. A whole new experience!
Got my DT1990 Pro cans last week.
Like Paul says, listening 🎧 to lots of music now.
Just realised I've not listened to a beatles track yet on the new system.. WHY 😱
yea Matt Wiggins is a beast
Certainly had a good education from what I read 🤓
Wow who ever got you those headphones - what a magnificent guy (or gal)! But I totally understand where he is coming from ... if a company or manufacturer wont give you a demo at least - if they dont care about your channel - why advertise their wares? And you have worn me down ... I might get a headphone amp ... to try out at least and compare with my RME and UAD ... we shall see Paul Third ... we shall see ...
If you get a refund or money back guarantee if you don't like them then I would definitely say a headphone amp is worth trying out 🤓
Paul you need to move to Brighton, East Sussex UK Rock and Motown City Brighton home 300 artists includingRoyal Blood, Freemasons, Demob Happy Celeste. Plus county with 14 music colleges and universities. Plus 500 plus pubs and restaurants. Lots of gigs potential.
my wife would only move outside of scotland unless its somewhere hot haha
@@PaulThird Social and craft scene if she into learning arts, specialist cooking or fitness classes endless here and one of the hottest place in the country Brighton Bournemouth and devon/cornwall.
Seagulls would need to get use to. I was just watching your Sonible mix within this hour. I agree Sonible sounds best, But like you I have the Beatles snare always in mind and that is why your snare sounded bright and instrumentation. Like me you most probably listened to almost 200 Lennon and McCartney songs and their solos along with George and Ringo.
it is hard to get out of the DNA. and why would want to that abbey Road method that sold and sells millions of records and sonically like the best ice cream you ever tasted. The wow factor.
Yup. Its that balance isn't it. It's trying to give your identity to a mix without going too far and knowing what too far sounds like. I think I try and push myself way too hard into making a record sound so different to the original track so it sounds like a 'Paul Third' mix but I've still not honed it right yet. I'll always mix snares brighter haha if I'm right it all started with Tony Visconti or Butch Vig, can't remember who, but they stated that they crank 10k in snares and that made sense to my ear but ive got a tendency to go overly bright a lot 😅
@@PaulThird Remember Geoff Emerick hated all the remastered versions of the Beatles songs. He sat said it destroyed the sonic qualities of the song. He hated the TG12345 machines too said they destroyed the sonic qualities. of the song. The only benefit of all the Beatles remixes you can hear what the band speak about and songs like Something and Lennon always speaking and jokes at the end of songs. And clearing up debates on words you and other listensers though you heard in the orginals.
I know you made this years ago but I just got this amp and I regret not getting it sooner. I own an RME Babyface pro fs and everyone says you don’t need a headphone amp with this interface - bollocks. My Audeze sines to my Austrian Audio x65s are transformed.
I think headphone amps are one of the weakest parts of modern interfaces - they should build in a Topping to all interfaces.
Yeah I think everybody is finally starting to understand what I was talking about now haha
If they are like my Austrian Audio Hi-X55, then WELCOME TO THE PARTY, PAL!!!!
Heard a lot of good things about them. I know Ed Thorne rated them when he reviewed them 🤓
Also... BE CAREFUL, I just now read a "RECALL" report about the L30, reporting that it was damaging headphones.at serial numbers "Supposedly" beginning at 2011 or less.
I pinned a comment about that when I first uploaded the video 🤓
Paul - I use a Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface and have been using the headphone output to mix with. Would a separate headphone amp do a better job than what I have? Thanks
THD of 0.01% and dynamic range of 104dB. I would be using a seperate headphone amp and tbh i would advise another interface all together for mixing as the DA is pretty sub par as well. Audient id14 mk2 and a topping L30 mk2 would be a much better solution for mixing without breaking the bank
@@PaulThird Thanks. I'll check it out.
What does tbh mean?
If I keep the interface I already have and buy the Topping amp, would that make a significant difference - or do I really need both? Thanks again.
Nevermind - I just ordered the headphone amp.
🤓🤓🤓
Remember to check out my autism channel if you want to learn more about my life
Hmmmmmm idk what to say right now because after watching your video I ordered one of this amp and hmmmm .... the noise coming from this is horrible 😫 😭 😩 😪
I've had mk1 & mk2. no issues. I've had at least 15 people buy it and thank me for talking about it.
Are you using it correctly?
@PaulThird I would like to believe so ... I'm getting a lot of bad noise
@PaulThird I have a HA4000 PRO HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER to and when I switch between the two the TOPPING L30 II is really noisy
How is the topping connected to the interface?
@@PaulThird it's connected from my focusrite headphone output
Yes. 100%. If you do any mixing work you should have a headphone amp that is at least as good as the sub-$200 Cranborne Audio N22H.
Many audio interfaces, even highly regarded ones, have headphone amps that are, to put it nicely, the weakest link in the chain. This is just largely due to how usb/thunderbolt interfaces work. A nice headphone amp can often make a massive difference. If you don’t like what you’re hearing from your headphones, the lowest cost way to make the biggest change can often be upgrading the headphone amp.
(granted, some people may not consider $180 budget but, at least compared to quality headphone amps, there just aren’t any in the class of the N22H that are near this price)
Ive had quite a few messages from folk boasting about their 2-3 grand setups. I just don't care about price.
I sent them all Amir's review and how well the topping L30 measured.
All I recieved back was money, money, money. Regurgitating the price difference.
For my specific planar headphones the topping is perfect for my setup. I was advised for my setup that the topping would be just a better choice than a rupert neve or spl phonitor. I have a trusted circle of engineers who test all this stuff for their own studios. Specs and measurements are important but I always feel combined with a trusted opinion you can't go wrong 🤓
Ive found its more about finding the right fit for your specific setup and your budget. A few guys got annoyed cause I think they thought I was insinuating that the topping was the best HP amp out there. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it's probably one of the best in its price range and it measures unbelievably well for its price.
@@PaulThird
Exactly. I don’t get why people basically fetishize the amount of money out into something. I feel like throwing money at names instead of searching out functionality is basically the epitome of immaturity. The purpose of all this equipment is to make and hear music. It isn’t to have the fanciest names on the equipment you use
Far you fae min
Dundee
Rnhp.
I TOO HAVE RECENTLY LEARNED ABOUT THE POOR QUALITY HEADPHONE AMPS IN INTERFACES AFTER PURCHASING A PAIR OF QUALITY PLANARS AND HAVE BEEN RESEARCHING ALL WEEK ABOUT THE BEST HEADPHONE AMP TO PURCHASE. THERE ARE A LOT OF AMP REVIEWS BUT NOT A LOT ON THE BEST AMP TO PURCHASE IF CONNECTING TO AN AUDIO INTERFACE. SINCE EACH AMP AND INTERFACE VARY ITS IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHICH OPTIONS TO CHOOSE DEPENDING ON THE CONNECTIONS ON EACH DEVICE. I'VE ALSO SETTLED ON A BALANCED LINEAR HEADPHONE AMP VS A SE AMP FOR A MORE TRANSPARENT AND CLEAN SOUND, MAKING SURE THAT MY AMP DOESN'T COLOR MY HEADPHONE IN ANY WAY. THE TOPPING L50 IS MY TOP PICK AS OF NOW BECAUSE OF THE BALANCED TRS INPUTS AND THE TRANSPARENCY. I USE AN ARTURIA AUDIOFUSE SO MY CONNECTIONS ON THE BACK ARE A BIT DIFFERENT. EVERY REVIEW I SEEN SO FAR STATES THAT THE L30 AND THE L50 SOUND LIKE WHATEVER HEADPHONES YOU PLUG INTO THEM WITH NO ADDED COLORATION. DOES HAVING AN UNBALANCED AMP WITH UNBALANCED CABLES AFFECT THE SOUND QUALITY IN ANY WAY OR MAYBE LESS SUPERIOR THAN BALANCED? I THINK THERE SHOULD BE MORE CONTENT ABOUT THE SUBJECT AND I'M GLAD I CAME ACROSS YOUR VIDEO. I WENT SEARCHING FOR A REVIEW ON YOUR CHANNEL AFTER I NOTICED YOU HAD A HEADPHONE AMP ON YOUR DESK IN THE BACKGROUND WHILE I WAS WATCHING A DIFFERENT VIDEO OF YOURS. I'M GLAD YOU MADE ONE. IF YOU CAN OFFER ANY FURTHER INFORMATION ON AMPS ID APPRECIATE IT. THANKS IN ADVANCE.
I looked at the l50 but an engineer friend of mine had the l30 and he told me he tried both and couldn't hear any difference so I went for the l30 and honestly never looked back 🤓
why are you screaming?
Damn you just made me order a topping like yours 🥲
🤓🤓
That's a touchy subject because we're entering the competency of the audiophile, which is way pickier than mixers ...they spent thousands on headphones and headphone amps. There is where you'll your answers.
I've already noticed there's a bit of 'eletism' within the audiophile community. Loads of guys messaged me quoting their 2-3 grand systems.. I don't care how much stuff costs. Money doesn't = quality. Its all about whats right for your system. I'm happy with the upgrade in detail I'm hearing and I know it's a big difference to what I've been hearing previously. That's all that matters.
Amir is probably the biggest audiophile there is and he raved about the topping and showed how well it measured.
The 'expensive is always better' argument does my absolute box in 😅
@@PaulThird 💯... Talk about elitism . And people think mixing engineers are intense..the audiophiles take this to a new level ...