Stop Saying Kraken Has No Counterplay
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#splatoon3 #kraken #salt 
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“Log off Reddit” is also dating advice
And life advice😂
I have noticed that the only times that the Kraken makes any kind of difference is when you FORCE the enemy team to react to it. Like in Gem's first example, Gem or his team didn't care about the Kraken - they cared about the Rainmaker. The Kraken was a lost cause in that moment.
It can be super powerful when used in situations where there is literally no fallback. Using Kraken at Clam Blitz basket when you have teammates with you can be pretty terrifying as the enemy choices are limited:
1. Flee from the Kraken (which causes the Kraken to change targets, which either leads to a surprise Splat or a second player just running away from defending the basket)
2. Having multiple people attack the Kraken, trying to force it back so much that it can't Splat anyone (which means that it's now a 3v2 or 3v1 situation at the basket)
3. Stand your ground and hope that Kraken misses everyone (oh good luck with that)
Does that make the Kraken OP? Not at all, since literally ANY Special used at this point is terrifying. Strike. Booyah. CRAB. Heck, even Ink Vac will just ruin your day when used at your last line of defense.
Over time people will get better at timing Kraken during times when it cannot be ignored. In other words, this special will get stronger over time. At the moment... you can usually just go where the Kraken is not.
Bubble can also be an annoyance on Tower Control or Rainmaker if the escort is just dropping it to be annoying
“Running to the phone booth to change out of their superhero costume” is my favourite analogy for a Kraken escaping
Nowhere near as busted as it was in Splatoon 1, but it is still annoying to deal with, especially in Tower Control.
The counterplay being "leave" doesn't help with those modes either. Methinks kraken should run out faster on the tower, like Big Bubbler.
@@inkerbell5456 Shooting Kraken should end the special earlier. Like it has HP.
@@alfredc.7777 another hp special is exactly what we need in this game
@@alfredc.7777 then crab would be able to shed it like they do for every other special
@@inkerbell5456 Make it so the kraken simply doesnt count as a person on the tower, that way it can CLEAR the tower, but it cant push it alone.
Also make it so people cant super jump to it, so its not an invincible beakon in clam blitz. There, fixed.
Not even just saltoon, regular r/Splatoon is incredibly hive mind-like when it comes to this stuff. Hell, there are a significant portion of people on there that all agree that clash blaster is too OP and needs to be nerfed. And they absolutely think kraken is broken and ruining the game.
" clash blaster is too OP and needs to be nerfed " What? I have never seen anyone write that on this subreddit. Very often they write that this blaster is the most annoying weapon. Annoying, not OP.
Never really seen that. I have seen a good amount of people making fun of opinions like that though
It’s because there’s a lot of casuals. They aren’t playing the game in a competitive level so they have a smaller understanding of what every weapon is really capable of
@@Amit180s i don’t like separating casual and competitive… but yeah. a lot of people who play the game and don’t look into comp feel a lot angrier than comp players. i’ve seen a lot more casual players rage over spawn camping for example. splatoon tumblr described being a competitive player as “depressing” though which i found a little odd
I think clash blaster is annoying to deal with but only because I play inkbrush (I'm also not the best player out here) When I play something else it bothers me way less. As for buffing or nerfing it, I consider myself not competent enough to make a proper judgement.
Kraken is the kind of special that relies on mechanical skill in order to be effective.
Being overly aggressive with Kraken and hard focusing that 1 kill is not how you wanna play the special.
As you said it just results in a situation where you just fight a 3v3 and a stallfest of a 1v1.
Kraken is a play making special you use it to make plays that would otherwise be impossible.
Chasing a stally 1v1 is not a good way to use a play making special.
You wanna go for the multikills or distrupt the fight that would've taken place normally enough to where the enemy team is scattered and easy pickings.
Similar to how you don't use an ultra stamp to win a 1v1 if it actually worked you would use it to turn the tides against your opponent by winning in a situation that would be certain death otherwise.
Hehe specail
@@momsaccount4033 fucking auto correct
@@AnekinRed happens to the best of us, don’t worry
So is more about playing control and herding the rivals to a weak position and aim to get that multikill or disrupt rotations?
@Mr BlackJacker32.0 yeah you don't wanna just chase one person down with it as your main weapon does that better.
The invincibility allows you to be a problem they have to deal with so if you go for multiple players if someone tries to bait you you just kill a different person.
By using their teamates as hostage you can avoid getting baited into a stall.
For about 2 weeks I had had an extreme worry about Kraken being more overpowered than Crab Tank due to the fact that it was invincible, the tower and clam cheesing, and the charge ignoring knockback from shots all together. However after talking with some people they said that Kraken is common in *solo*, but in team competitive the main special is *still* Crab. And that makes sense, because they didn’t nerf it, they just made some specials do more damage to it
It makes sense because Kraken is good in a play where noone can communicate with each other, while Krab still is king in a play where teams can coordinate and communicate their strategies.
Kraken can make you play solo in breaking choke points and doing objective, and it's hard to "counter" it if there's no coordination, there's no 4 v 3 like Gem said, in most solo queue, because everyone is doing their own thing in solo queue
But for me it's not really OP, it just needs a bit more tweak...
I love how gem goes from talking about the funny squid game to then give basic how to be a good functioning human advice.
It can never be repeated enough that Reddit (and social media at large, RUclips is hardly exempt) is generally lacking in nuance and not based in reality, just whatever gets the most attention. It’s a weird and unfortunate landscape we find ourselves in. I have also browsed Saltoon before (do not recommend) and actually recognized a complaining player or two-unilaterally, they were absolutely not pleasant to play with. You have to be a pretty toxic person for it to come through in a game without voice chat, but these people managed. I would rather be stuck only playing with children who are still learning than with teens or adults who frequent such a place, regardless of skill level. The kids will get better. People who only ever blame others and insist games are lost before they’ve begun will not. Games are for fun! It’s ridiculous. 🦑
Honestly I feel like when people on Reddit say something is Overpowered, it can usually be translated to: "This is not fun to fight against." The comparison to Missiles has some grounding when you consider it ONLY from the perspective of the person being chased with Kraken (Forced to disengage and keep on the move while hoping the user of the special massively misplays so the effect of the special is mitigated even further) but even if those engagements are relatively small in a game, they feel massive on the player experience. I personally think it's annoying to deal with, but I know that's because I typically play Chargers or other low mobility weapons that have no margin of error to stop the kraken before it starts, and a still tight window to punish someone for coming out of Kraken. That's just MY personal experiences with it though, I definitely don't think it's game breaking, just not fun for me (and of course, it's really not supposed to.) Honestly because of it, it pushed me into trying to get more comfortable with the higher mobility Splatana Wiper which is now something I would throw into my mains, and yeah, Kraken is noticeably easier to just ignore with it.
But I think the primary reason there's so much hate from places like Reddit in particular is because it's the bane of Solo-Que players. The point where Cheese strats start to fall off but aren't being consistently shut down is where a lot of people will really see this strategy and whether your team will know how to best capitalize on it's weakness, or even if you have a comp able to handle one of your players getting forced out of the fight, are going to drastically change your outlook of the Special.. but on top of that, if you're seeing this strategy on YOUR OWN TEAM then you're gonna have to deal with what will be a 3v4 as your teammate plays their own gimmick to do something that should not work, but given the circumstance now has to become your win condition (as terrible as it is.) If that strategy works, then it feeds into the mindset of Kraken being OP because you start to think "Wow we just won because of this stupid Kraken" and if you lose, you blame the player for trying cheese strats and failing them in the first place. Well.. "you" being operative for a Solo-Que player in this instance.
I actually have a clip of me shutting out a Kraken player entirely by just positioning on top of a ledge just barely out of the Kraken's reach, while I was playing Range Blaster on Tower Control. Kraken pops on the tower, brute forces their Splatling player onto it so they can ride relatively safely, and goes to pressure me as I was the closest opponent: but since I shook the Kraken off, uselessly began to flail at me while leaving their Splatling player open for a direct, themselves open for another direct as they desperately jump on the tower as Kraken ends, and their last push ultimately ends in failure that probably would have gone differently had that Kraken player just stuck with using their .96 gal to just shoot me. It was that game that made me realize just how powerless a Kraken is if it can't even threat someone 6 feet above them, and while I'll say that I don't enjoy fighting Kraken, I don't think it's as fundamentally broken and flawed as Tenta-Missles.
This video does breeze over the fact that much of the counter play for kraken is … mobility and fast time from leaving the ink to being able to use your weapon. Weapon classes like dualies will struggle to jump over the kraken, and the comment that “when it transforms back that’s a free splat” is true … unless you play a weapon with a charge cycle, a slow firing animation, or something like an explosher that is both slow and lacks a one hit splat option. Much like the super chump special, the kraken is easy to counter if you are a shooter, and requires much more tactical acumen if you are not.
Tower Kraken being "op" is too funny to me. As if there isn't a much better special that can ride tower for free while also firing some of the longest range shots in the game that also happens to be the best special in the game in almost every other scenario.
Yeah, it’s Big Bubbler with an E-leet. Can’t beat that range and protection! :p
And before you say the correct counter to THAT, said counter wrecks Crab as well. :)
except crab can be pushed back in ball form and also has at least a weak point on the back. I think both are really annoying to deal with on tower, but for every other mode its balanced fine.
THANK YOU! I've been saying this: Kraken isn't broken, in fact, fundamentally it's a very balanced weapon. The only unfair thing about it currently is how it can cheese some objectives like Clam Blitz, Tower, and even RM. if those things get fixed, it becomes basically a perfect special!
The problem is that kraken can take objectives like tower and clam blitz and there’s nothing you can do about it.
Love the saltoon hate. I’ve seen people make objectively correct points and be drowned out. While people who are genuinely upset and are using the subreddit for it’s purpose- being angry- are made fun of for being “bad at the game.” I think what shows best how terrible the place is, is the pool for it. It’s full of bad players who want to be carried.
The regular subreddit is a far more supportive and healthy environment. But when people go there to ask questions or voice a frustration, they’re unhappy with the support or critique they receive because they aren’t looking for it. They’re used to being agreed with. So they go to a salty subreddit where they can toss their opinions into an echo chamber of negativity. The regular subreddit will answer your questions and provide real advice, but salty players don’t want that. And then they’re sucked into the hostile environment of saltoon.
I’ll admit, the regular subreddit is bad as well. But you need to find the right people.
I’ve had people there give me genuine helpful advice, compared to what i’ve received on saltoon (being called a bad player)
But the biggest problem is that nobody really knows anything. And people know that. A healthy debate can’t be had because neither side knows what they’re arguing about.
Like when big run happened, people were freaking out because it was so hard for them, but i never once saw, on either subreddit, objectively correct points and critiques.
My issues were simple: the map is hard for me to work with, and the randomized weapons suck sometimes. But i would always try and give support for my opinions.
I don’t really see people do that because people don’t really know why they’re upset.
That kind of advice doesn’t come from the average player. And it can’t be found on reddit.
R/splatoon is better than saltoon by a mile. But if you need real help, not just little bits of advice, you need to look elsewhere.
Thank you!
I made a post on the splatoon reddit and I got tons of rude comments. Haven't spoken on it since.
(Not saying this is the entire reddit- I just had a bad first experience sharing a funny clip)
@@Krampy2 sometimes it is total ass but most of the time it's pretty chill from what I've seen
@@mysryuza ?
Everyone seems to agree that the kraken probably shouldn't be able to score tower points. It's great for clutch moments, but that really is "free points with no counterplay". TF2 doesn't let you capture objectives while invincible, because invincibility is a powerful thing in multiplayer games.
Big Bubbler lasts just about as long, is also free points and also reduces the enemy's options AND keeps the team using it with 4 active players with ranged weapons instead of 3. Thus by the metric of pushing tower, it's better than Kraken.
No sarcasm here.
@@malcovich_games Kraken is much more absolute in scoring points. It doesn’t lose to other specials like Bubbler does-you can Booyah or Ink Strike against a Bubbler and force the rider off. Those things don’t bother Kraken at all. Plus you can’t swim up the tower to kill the Kraken like you can a Bubbled tower rider. And the meta is heavily teched against HP specials.
That’s not to say Kraken is definitely superior on TC, but I think it’s not as simple as “duration + shooting = bubbler better”.
@@malcovich_games yeah and big bubbler is also pretty toxic on the tower, so idk what point you're trying to make here
Just increase knockback ez
@@pyhrrous968 Basically "I don't see the problem with Kraken being free points when something similar exists that does about the same thing but with only slightly more counterplay."
I'm a fan of kiting the kraken in because a lot of them get greedy, are often ahead of their team and isolated so you can punish them after they transform back.
I just run past them a lot of the time, unless i have ink vac then im immune and take up all their attention as they keep trying to splat me
@@WadWizard false. kraken easily splats ink vac with a charge from the front, vac is defenseless against melee attacks. however i don't know about the jump attack. i know for a fact that vac is useless against kraken charge, and will be splatted. i did this myself as a kraken no more than half an hour ago from typing this
There are LOTS of ways to avoid and isolate the kraken.
baiting a kraken into dashing into you, so they fall out of the map 👌
@@aria5981 very true, the main exception is vac haha
My opponent being better at the game then me has 0 counterplay. That should be banned
Ah, the turf war spawn lock experience.
(But, seriously, they should fix the maps so that's less likely to happen)
I kinda find the complaints valid honestly, purely since 99% of the playerbase of the game is of the casual side, so kraken being an issue IS a larger problem for that much larger proportion of the community. The stuff top players say is entirely true for their level of play, but for the vast majority of players that is nullified in a game where most people cannot play directly on a voice call with teammates, where matchmaking is so abysmally awful, where trying to get your team to push or follow certain objectives is practically impossible, the list goes on.
This is not a Kraken problem in the context of casual environment. ALL sort of annoying tactics will get this player base. There are so many things casual players don't know how to counter properly (eg: all sorts of specials that can force players leaving the objective). Kraken do need some sort of nerf imo but the buffs around other options are much more important right now.
Splatoon is a competitive multiplayer shooter. The game balance cannot be sacrificed to appease people who don’t know how to play the game. We will revert back to splatoon 1. I do think something is seriously wrong with the matchmaking though, but if you’re playing X or in scrimmages it doesn’t really matter as much. Even SR is getting it’s own competitive overfishing mode that is not reliant on randoms.
@@saycap Splatoon is a multiplayer shooter with a competitive scene. The game is designed around being fun for _all_ levels of play, not just the highest level. Balancing games around just the highest levels usually results in a dying player base as the number of players with the skills to play and enjoy the game would get too low.
@@123christianac This is more of a problem with the balance updates being too stale in the case of Splatoon 3, the thing that is driving players base away more than any other issues.
At least the dev has already announced the patches will be more frequent from the latest patch note so hopefully all of these will be addressed.
I'm a casual, and I main a weapon that most "pro players" consider as uncompetitive (Clash Blastee), and I think Kraken is okay... But it does needs a few tweaks
1. Make it so it dropped objective objects like clams, power clams and rainmaker upon activation
2. Make it so people cannot super jump onto an active Kraken,
That's it, everything else is okay TBH... Never really find a match where kraken does something other supers like booyah or ink strike don't do
YOU CAN JUMP OVER THIS THING??? KRAKEN TAMING IS BACK YALL!!!!
There is only one thing that can completely tame a kraken: THE INK VAC.
@Shaun Goeckeritz what if they just kraken dash through the vacuum??
@@Ollie-Arts It still doesn't hit them. It looks really weird but yeah ink vac is immune
@Tribow strange
@@Tribow I wonder if that's the counterplay against Kraken on the Tower in Tower Control? The Ink Vac user has to stand on the tower with the Kraken to stop the push?
A better way to use Kraken in Clam Blitz is to terrorise the enemy basket area while your team is scoring. You may not have range, but it's a small enough area that none of the enemy team frontliners can afford to ignore your presence. They'll all have to divide their attention between your teammates and you.
Of course, a crab can do pretty much the same job, but this is where "you can't splat the user" becomes a lot closer to "there's no counterplay" than other situations. That Kraken's gonna be there for its whole duration and the defenders just have to deal with that.
My *only* problem with kraken right now doesn't have anything to do with the special itself. I am worried that Kraken will be used as a crutch by the devs to create more maps like Mincemeat and Ruins where the entire map is essentially just a bunch of chokepoints in a line. I am worried that the thought process will be "Well, we have an invinicibility special in the game so players can force themselves through choke points rather than asking us to waste development time implementing flank routes."
Kraken in a vacuum is, otherwise, an entirely balanced and healthy special. I absolutely *love* its inclusion in the game. What I mentioned above is my only problem with it and, again, *it has nothing to do with Kraken.*
From my own experiences kraken does feel a bit overpowered but it's not impossible to counter or balance, one idea I had is to make it so that the Kraken doesn't progress the tower, so if a kraken was on the tower it would act like no one was on it, this would make it impossible for a kraken to push the tower on it's own, also maybe make it so players can't super jump to an active kraken, also kraken is only on 2 weapons right now so it's hard to accurately judge how good or bad it really is as both 96 gal deco and Krak-on roller have notable weaknesses and can't build up special as easily as others
Shooting kraken can knock it off tower and it’s a lot harder for it to get back on. There’s no reason for super jumps to be not allowed for kraken when every other special allows jumps
Nah that's stupid just make its duration decrease on tower like *other* specials
@@LongDeadArtistThe only special that does that is Big bubbler. But Crab Tank gets to Scott free so...
@@honukane242 I mean you say that but with how Kraken is now it's like being able to super jump to a Zipcaster instead of their return spot, the game so far has made it that highly mobile specials can't be directly super jumped to and kraken doesn't have a return marker
@@LongDeadArtist I mean that would also work but my reasoning is that Crab Tank and Big Bubbler can be further shortened by attacking them whereas Kraken is still completely invincible
Honestly I've rarely been killed by Kraken. The only time it has killed me is if I'm just not paying attention and didn't run away. Often times it is an easy kill because a lot of people haven't learned they gave to run away at the end. I have got use out of it when starting pushes but need to be able to fall behind teammates to stay safe when it runs out. It's also good for ending over time. But yeah some other specials seem way harder to deal with than Kraken.
This. What I've noticed is that Kraken excels the most at deleting other specials in exchange for being more difficult to splat normal players (assuming you're not playing a heavy weapon or something with lots of endlag (rip explo players)) GG Kraken still doesn't feel very good on TC and that's just about the only real issue I have with it.
@@KallMeQul GG Kraken isn’t really that bothersome because so many other specials do the same thing.
This mindset of "Kraken op plz nerf" is part of the reason Kraken players actually end up throwing: they think they're invincible.
I know the Kraken is invulnerable during the special, that's not what I'm talking about. They think that the special is so powerful that it can be used at literally any time and still be good. There's a lot more nuance to Kraken than many people think, but this mindset that it's "just like missiles" (and the fact it was a panic button in S1) leads people to think it's another "pop as soon as it charges" special.
"Ooga Booga, Kraken no die when shoot! Kraken broken! Ooga Booga!"
Splatoon players when they see the Ink Vac suck up a Booyah Bomb "There's literally no counterplay to this"
Thank you for the sanity check, Gem.
Also, that point about r/saltoon failing as a "venting" subreddit and how dumping anger "leaks" to other places a fandom is...basically applicable to so many *other* fandom-centric "venting" subreddits. (See: r/freefolk, r/stc, and their spin-offs.)
I've found the biggest counter to kraken is stealth. If they can't find you then they can't splat you. But you can sneak past and take out their team like in the opening clip.
This is especially true with the new Custom Liter. When you press that button, you go from having one of the longest ranges in the entire game to having literally the smallest range in the entire game.
It feels this is very disconnected from the reality of SoloQ. Sure, the tsctics might not be as effective in scrims or tourneys where people know each other and have coordinatiom, but you can go easily into S+50 and have these tactics work more than they should because of just how different the reality of SoloQ is. And that is going to be the reality og most of the playerbase. Sure, they still would do good on lesrning what to do against it and get better overall, but many oyher factors are simply out of control and a lot of times it's what causes the frustration, not what they end up blaming as the problem.
In my experience, krakens tend to be very focused on a single thing at once and ate stupidly easy to bait out of position by dodging to a side and keeping your eyes on it in case you need to move. Heck just earlier tonight I managed to help wiping out the the rest of the team by dodging, jumping up a small uninkable wall, then throwing a splash wall at the ramp back up caging the kraken, and joining back to turn a fight into a 4v3.
As someone who’s been an r/saltoon lurker for 3 years now, this is the funniest situation to me
One thing I like to do (in low level games admittedly) is basically play tag with a Kraken, as I'm a roller who can easily run from a Kraken stuck in tunnel vision and make them waste their special. The biggest weakness of the Kraken. . . is the user.
This is why it’s called fight or flight. If you can’t fight, then you run until you can fight.
One of my favorite things about kraken is how it is technically another displacement special, but it's the most interesting and fun displacement special in the game because of how much movement is involved in using it. Unlike crab tank or tenta missiles that control much more space from much longer range, kraken controls a tiny amount of space and the key to getting value out of it is to pick your targets wisely and use good movement to make the most of those 7 seconds. Instead if forcing people to take cover you can go in and force them _out of cover,_ instead of them moving away from a specific spot they have to move away from you, which means that you have much more ability to try and force them to go somewhere they don't want to (such as a towards the rest of your team if you decide to flank them).
It's a special where the winner is the player that mastered movement in this game best, and considering how good splatoon's movement is I just think that's really fun, and way more healthy for the game than a lot of other specials
Yk, I’d rather go up against a invincible melee kraken than a crab that can shoot hydra and explosher bullets from e-liter range. Kraken does need to be toned back, noticeably being able to hold clams(clams baller but better) and the knockback is almost non-existent when attacking or surging. Some things needs to be changed but overall, nintendo did great making the special pretty balanced when it dropped
Only thing this special needs is reduced duration on tower and for it to drop clams when *complete. Having bombs detonate on contact would be nice too (as well as.. you know, specials doing literally anything lol)
Edit: I got farther in the video and I feel a little bit dumb.
Edit 2: I finished the video and I think I am probably right, but for partially the wrong reasons. :) (*used to be when activated)
I think it would be useful for the tower to slow down when a kraken is on it.
The Kraken being nerfed when specifically on Tower feels a bit too on the nose and obvious. Would not feel great.
Also its knockback should be increased
Especially for weapons which are Not shooters
@@momsaccount4033 It's on the nose but it's targeted at the thing people complain most about, which is also the least interesting part of the special that incentivizes bad habits/cheese. What would you do instead to nerf it's ability to cheese tower and clams?
I mean something could change on tower. Big bubbler’s time is halved on tower if i remember correctly. But kralen doesn’t last that long anyway and can easily be pushed of tower with the right weapon.
I think the big issue that I personally have with kraken is that the "counterplay" of simply running away isnt fun. Unlike other specials that have interesting and obvious weaknesses to try and exploit when playing against, kraken doesnt have an obvious weakness. The special basically cant take knockback which would be cool if it actually worked as a strategy for defending against the special as it seems was the intention.
So bringing it back to the actual weakness of the special you outlined. Outside of high-level play players dont know how to take advantage of the enemy team having one less weapon when their player is in kraken form. Even in S+ lobbys I see krakens dominating plenty of matches when teams dont deal with them as you said they should. Personaly if they fixed the knockback and made it so that when you charge a dash it locks the direction you are charging in it could realy help the Push R: "now I can take whatever part of the map I want for the next 7 seconds" place the special seems to be in for most casual players
Running away doesn't mean do nothing. You can go after their teammates, or push objective, or attain paint control in an area you couldn't before because there was an enemy there.
@@leftovernoise Right, which is the point Gem made.
My point is that you can't do anything to the kraken user themselves. They have free reign to do whatever they want with no consequences until the special duration ends. This just isn't fun to play against
Can’t wait for someone to unironically repost this video onto r/saltoon with the caption “eat shit nerds”. I bet five dimes that this will happen within the following month, if not the following week.
I find dealing with Kraken fun, even if it's very distracting. Ducking and weaving to avoid what is essentially a deadly bumper car is just enjoyable.
I think there's really only two nerfs that kraken needs, and these nerfs are honestly less about the special itself and more about the rest of the weapons in the game:
Firstly, it needs to take more knockback from slower firing weapons, in a similar vein to how lower DPS weapons have object damage multipliers. Shooters being able to tame it better than any other weapon class is just unfair, and weapon classes like blasters being completely unable to feels really sad. I'm also reminded of a moment from I believe Dude's fresh season day 1 stream where he realized his 96 deco was too slow firing to hold back a kraken that wasn't even charging.
Way I see it, this wouldn't affect weapons like a splattershot or a splash almost at all, but weapons like blasters, rollers, and brellas would be significantly better at holding it back. I think backline weapons like long range chargers should get kb bonuses but only for charged shots, that way it still comes down to being able to hold it back and it isn't just able to hold off a kraken with tap shots if they position poorly and let it get on top of them
And secondly, it needs to not have KB invincibility while holding charge. When releasing charge it's fine because it's locked itself into going that way for a bit, but while holding in place, it's just a bit unhealthy for some objectives. This really won't change much except that it can't just sit on tower incontestably for its entire duration even if an entire team fires their specials at it
Wat I got from this is that Kraken isn’t great if you know how to play against it. However, most people who are not in the top competitive places don’t know the counterplay, especially cause communication in solo que is super hard. So it can be pretty good if you wanna play lower tiers, there is a certain level of innate terror that comes with seeing a kraken that makes everyone near it run away lol.
There’s counter-play against every main, sub, and special.
… I wished there was a counter-play against the random geniuses who are so afraid of losing matches by 1%, that they’d spend 30 seconds or more to paint “perfect” coverage of the home area (often with their backs turned away from approaching enemies), causing our team to lose Turf War/Splatfest matches by more than 30% instead.
I don't think Kraken itself is hard to avoid at all.
It's just incredibly strong at objective play, at least in TC and especially Clams.
Most “counterplay” there does not really exist for solo queue players (which is a good chunk of the playerbase), so what are you really supposed to do when the kraken cheeses to the goal and allows jumps?
A lot of the drawbacks for that strat only really exist in actual comp play, and that's where my problem lies.
Even if it's fine in comp it's still silly for solo queue players.
i was so late to find out what kraken was and it was so funny just seeing a giant inky boi in the splat zone
a strategy I've liked using against kraken in solo queue as a splatling player is to bait the kraken by shooting them from a perch. at my current level of play in solo queue it sends a pretty clear message of "I have the opportunity to splat you as soon as it ends, so you need to choose between running away early or dropping your current fight to try and come after me"
I think this might be a new record for metaphors in one video. Really enjoyed it
People would rather get indignant about a special that annoyed/confused them in a match once than actually ask how to play against it smh.
When you talked about a or s rank players using brush to get players to spam jumps, I laughed so hard. My a and s rank teammates didn’t even know that you could jump from anywhere but spawn.
Something I want to say - the way I interpret the word "counterplay" is "Any strategy that is intended to limit or nullify the effect an opposing player['s weapon/item/special/etc] can have on you and on the game." By that definition, flanking the enemy team DESPITE their Kraken isn't actually counterplay, since it's not INTENDED to limit or nullify the effect that the Kraken has on anything - but while you might have chosen the footage you did specifically to demonstrate flanking an enemy team DESPITE their Kraken, what I'm seeing happen in the footage tells me that part of the reason you chose to flank was BECAUSE you knew that the Kraken couldn't follow you directly. This would force it to go the long way around, limiting the effect that it could have had on you and on the game - in other words, counterplay! I'm well aware that this same definition means that missiles technically does have counterplay - namely, hiding under a ceiling so that none of the missiles can ever hit you - but it's situational at best and often ineffective or, on some maps, downright impossible, and even when it does work it takes you out of the game for just as long as getting splatted by the missiles would, if not longer.
Kraken is weird because it has a lot of flexibility in the way its used. This is both good and bad, because it CAN hold objectives, create openings and counter specials or weapons... but it could also leave your team in a 3v4 while you're flopping on the ground trying desperately to do anything.
I feelnlike this explains why I've been feeling actually more vulnerable during kraken despite being invisible. Opens up my other teammates to being targets and I feel like opponent's are waiting/dodging until I'm done with special
I love baiting the kraken into charging off the map, my fav counter play to the special.
Your response to counterplaying Kraken comes off as incredibly condescending when your solution is "do something that is common to competitive but impossible in solo." I don't even know three other people irl that play this game. I think the whole idea is that we shouldn't have had another special that ends games and forces people to move in the first place, even if Booyah and missles do that already (missles nerfed rn due to it being on crappy mains). It was a dumb idea to include a special that completely trivializes all of the well-designed specials in the game and renders one obsolete (stamp).
But I'm a realist, and know it's not going anywhere, so here's what I'd change:
-Make the vulnerable transformation period easier to see
-increase knockback
-can't superjump to it
-SLIGHTLY slow down surge if it's being shot at.
Listening to venting is not only done sympathetically, but often giving a lot of latitude to the venter. If my friend is telling me a story of something that absolutely ruined their day, I’m not gonna jump in and start nitpicking their take on things or how they reacted. Constructive pushback can wait until they’re not so hurt, but the vent session they can just be hurt without judgment.
When you have a space that’s a never ending vent session, you never have to hear “yeah, but aren’t you being a little unfair to…” A good vent is like (and is sometimes accompanied by) a night of drinking. A salt subreddit/discord is like chronic alcohol abuse.
THIS. I'm this way with my friends when I need to vent. Sometimes you need to get the information out first and all your feelings and THEN you can look at it more objectively with a person you trust. And in the end I always make sure to end on a positive note and ask how *they're* doing as well. I never want it to be all about me.
" A good vent is like (and is sometimes accompanied by) a night of drinking. A salt subreddit/discord is like chronic alcohol abuse." Brilliant metaphor there, really like that.
"Kraken has lots of AOE attacks"
Genuinely what in the world are they talking about
Kraken isn't as centralizing as Crab, by a long shot. Pun maybe intended.
Crab still covers the entire area in front of it with its huge range. If you try to run away, you just gave the enemy team free reign over an equally big chunk of the map. If you even survive to tell the tale that is.
Yes, you can yeet an Ultra Stamp at it to one shot it now and Kraken dashes right through it, but the former is unreliable and the latter needs the user to already be in Crab range to even attempt to get close. And if you manage to live long enough to trigger Kraken, good luck reaching Crab when its rapid fire pushes you back and it isn't exactly short on the mobility aspect either.
TLDR: Range > Being invincible
As a really new player I get confused when people complain about kraken as a Krak on roller player currently. It's fun to suddenly charge forward with an invincible special but it obviously isn't gonna be great competitively at higher levels because it just doesn't do a whole lot.
I think this is the reason kraken is actually pretty fun to play with and against.
missiles and crab tank can't be avoided but a kraken can be avoided you just swim away from it.
the only thing that's really hurting this special are the cheese strats for me.
Great discussion, you always provide a very good and fair point of view. I also think that a lot of people seem to not understand learning curves, and every time something completely o relatively new (at least for the current community, i’m sure that Splatoon 1 veterans don’t really think that Kraken is OP) gets introduced since they still don’t really know how to fight it, they get overwhelmed and think is way too strong. Players have really little patience at this point, and often feel entitled of having absurd RUclips highlights pro level plays and to get the win in every single game, so a wall that puts them in a difficult spot really gets on their nerve, and they are not willing to look at things critically or outside their first idea on how to approach the game. This may not apply when the game is new, but as time goes on they feel “strong” and that they have no more to learn, so is never their fault if something puts them on the spot, but it’s the thing itself that’s the problem. I remember struggling a lot with blasters, even when i had quite a bit of experience, but with time I learned how to fight them, and that i was simply approaching them in the wrong way, and i feel like, again, these kind of late game learning curves get ignored by a lot of players that get their ego pumped online
You are wrong about this one
@@lckfan3696 Why is the original poster wrong? They have some good points. Let's spill the beans and hear your side!
It has counterplay, but needs some tweaks.
Like clam carrying.
I think of kraken like how you would the invincibility item in Smash Bros. You might not be able to hurt you opponent for a few seconds but counter play definitely still exists. Bait them off a ledge, onto grates, or into a bad position as it ends. Yes your opponent is invincible for a few seconds but that in and of itself doesn’t give them any value.
For slow weapons it's just hard to escape it
And if you're a heavy weapon, you might as well have ninja squid equipped for how sluggish you swim away
but gem the big squid is large and scary and headed straight towards me and is thus the best special in the game and should be nerfed and banned (/s)
I was an avid kraken hater until I got caught off guard by one and JUMPED over it. Now I laugh at them while flexing my superior gymnastics
People get very confident pushing behind a Kraken. My favorite means of Kraken taming are dealing with everyone who trails behind the Kraken.
When the update came out me and a friend were messing around in turf war, and played with the rule we weren’t allowed to submerge in ink, at all. It was really funny just… walking away, any time somebody used kraken.
this turned from kraken is not busted to R/saltoon rant
As someone who has been counterplaying Kraken, I don't understand where anyone who says it has no counterplay is coming from. It announces everything it does. It turns mobility into a weapon, so use mobility as defense. Force it to defend its team and the only time its objective presence matters is when you've already given the enemy an advantage. Its invincibility means nothing unless you're already losing. It's just a big, predictable and loud annoyance.
I’m new compared to a lot of players and I also agree. It doesn’t feel right to call Kraken “broken” or needed a nerf. People be wanting nerfs but not often *what* nerfs they want. I was sure that there are ways to counterplay. Plus, the Kraken is only on two weapons a lot of player probably don’t even care much about unless they’re a Gal or Roller Main, trying to experiment a new weapon, or played Splatoon 1.
I used to be a member of Saltoon until the people there and my own toxicity got too much for me and honestly, I got better in the game without that subreddit taking up my time and energy. Based on my experience there, Saltoon claims to be some venting place to complain, BUT it’s also a trap because it also attracts people (both new and experienced) who will treat you like crap *while you’re already feeling like crap* VERY quickly, like Twitter. Even if you make valid complaints, it’ll be drowned out and the people who are just waiting to throw in their “skill issue” insults would be around the corner like how bullies would be waiting for a neurodivergent person to do anything they could bully for. I know it’s not the best comparison, but I hope y’all understand what I mean.
I actually disagree that it doesnt need a nerf. There definitely is counterplay, but the special contributes a lot to shooter bias because while no weapon can really tame it, shooters tame it better than any other weapon class, and even some of the neglected shooters can't deal with it. Making it take more knockback from slow firing weapons would just make it more fair overall
I understand what you mean, but it could get a partial nerf. I.E: shortened duration on tower (like big bubbler), better knockback since this thing negates the very short knockback it gets with simply holding down ZR to do the surge, more end lag in case this thing ends up on like the third dapples kit, etc. I mean, it is a special from splatoon 1... of course its going to be overpowered despite the slight nerf they gave it-
Edit: also remember how the very short end lag that it has can be negated with a squid roll, ❤
@@Coalgate_frsh I think extra knockback on tower would work really well. And increased knockback from non-shooters
stealth is a big part of dealing with kraken effectively
kraken has no means of painting outside of its damaging zone meaning that if a kraken rushes into an area all painted your color and you hide (ESPECIALLY with ninja squid), it can be very difficult for the kraken to find and splat you on its own before its duration runs out
and if its duration DOES run out, itll be completely vulnerable and potentially right next to you, a sharking player waiting to strike and exploit its endlag
Paint defensively against kraken making sure to have a lot of space to hide in against it which could potentially let you give it the slip or lie in wait for its duration to end
also, if your teammate uses kraken it can be worth throwing a point sensor or torpedo their way to reveal any enemy players trying the same strategy
*if you are returning to regular squid from kraken in your own ink, sometimes you can get some weird super slide getting to safety
"Angry people don't learn, they blame." Ah shit, who is that one Splatoon guy? Pitz something?
Just dodge the kraken😮
The only thing I want is a knockback increased based on atyack damage.
Because it would be funny to see the Splatana charged hit send it flying.
I think the reason people hate the kraken in tower control is because of overtime. When the losing team is making a comeback push and somebody pops a kraken on the tower there is really nothing to do about that and it’s basically a loss. However, booyah bomb is the same only in reverse. I think people just get frustrated because it feels like a win was stolen, rather than failing a push.
as someone who’s new to the game, i have literally only seen people rant about how unbalanced kraken is. really nice to see the other side, great video!!
I lost a game of clam blitz once because the Kraken carried a super clam into our base and spammed the A button before we could kill them
Really the only thing that bothers me about it is Tower cheese. It was pretty common in Splatoon 1 from what I remember for people in solo to bring a kraken weapon in, charge up special, and then pop it and sit on tower the entire time for the free points. I was hoping they would at least make that less of a thing. Anything else doesn't particularly bother me. Kraken right now just feels like Ultra Stamp if it worked and also Tower cheese. As long as they're careful with what they put it on, which I trust they will be because they have been with missiles, I don't think it'll ever be much of a problem
Yet crab cheese is no problem when it’s a offensive threat aswell, making it a better crab as the enemies risk getting splatted to get rid of the crab
@@lienesauserde7419 I never said I thought crab was ok. Don't make stuff up
Kraken Counterplay : Just Jump
As someone who has used the Krak-on roller, the kraken Royale ABSOLUTELY can be counterplayed. People can run, dodge, squid roll, can prepare an ambush for when the kraken wears off, splat the player before kraken pops, and more. Kraken is useful mainly for tower control, for dropping on someone from above for a near insta kill, for forcing enemies to flee or shift focus away from a vulnerable team mate, and for forcing your way through enemy ink to paint an uninhabited enemy spawn. If there is people there though, you probably die.
I'm a Krak-On Roller main so whenever someone whines about there not being counterplay I remember the time the enemy team stood on the grates on Manta's mast. I couldn't reach them, my team was down a player (because I was a kraken) and they had perfect sightlines to the zones. The best I could do was try to block shots at that point. I couldn't even charge or squidroll at them, I just kinda flopped around awkwardly. I'd have done better sticking on my roller instead. That's when I realized that I'm going to push my favourite weapon as far as it can go this season, but I'm probably headed for carbon deco or back to the regular splat roller instead. Trizooka takes away a main weapon but increases my range and kill power, and bubbler doesn't take away my main weapon on tower- and that's more than kraken can say for itself.
I think another common to said it best but I want to reword it a bit. The main problem was kraken is the user's tunnel vision. What do I mean by this like you said if a kraken focuses on a single person they might as well just died as they're essentially removing themselves from play adjust to chase down a single person who isn't removed from play. I also feel like a lot of kraken players including me overuse the charge too much. This is a problem due to how highly telegraphed it is. This makes me think that the best way to use a kraken is the constantly move around as wide an area as you can rather than waste your time idly jumping on the Tower or chasing down a single person. At lower levels krakens biggest strength is it being a weapon of fear. Which is why because I'm kind of stuck at lower levels because I'm not as good at the game as I should be I found great success with kraken I still don't think it's enough to make me stop maining the tentatec but then again I have a deep personal connection to that weapon.
Just the other day, me and two other teammates had to get out of the way of a Kraken. 3 displaced by 1, we took off in different directions and got picked off. We still got so close to winning the match though! It's just a part of gameplay. We should have regrouped (or not be that close together to start with), but we were outplayed. Too bad for us, good play on their part. Lesson(s) learned.
Mostly posting this because RUclips likes engagement which helps to boost the video.
I have jumped over those things so many times, a single squid roll is enough to get them off your path if you maneuver correctly
After watching the video I realize one thing
Kraken is op because there is a Crab covering from behind.
I guess we are still in crab meta.
I assure you none of those kraken haters have played splat 1
From my experience It felt like a slightly more like a displacement special rather than a get kills easier weapon.
I think you're making a lot of assumptions about how Kraken functions in Clam Blitz that are not actually consistent with what feels unfair about the special to me. When my team is halfway across Manta Maria and the enemy team activates Kraken in mid, completely ignores my team, and just dashes repeatedly to our basket with a power clam, what do we do? We can't reliably push to the enemy basket against 3 players in 8 seconds. If we do not deal with it, we can potentially have any number of the enemy team suddenly set up at our open basket with all the clams they have gathered across the map. How many players do we send back, bearing in mind that we may not even be able to catch up to it before it's done transforming back, that we don't know how many players will choose to jump to it, and that we're going to be coming into a situation where we don't have defender's advantage when we come from mid, but super jumping home takes way too long? The frustrating part isn't just that it can ignore our control of the basket (though I will say you are just brushing off the cases where scoring 20-minus-penalty more points wins a game, which happens fairly frequently, and it is outright impossible to stop it from throwing its own power clam in even if four players shoot it as it untransforms as far as I can tell), it's that my team has to effectively back up half the map because it can ignore our control of everything in front of the basket up through mid and give its team the same ability. This isn't a problem on every map, but on maps with long push distances, it resets your push so easily by just not interacting with your team and posing a threat far behind it at the basket. You said the counterplay to inkbrush cheese is just enforcing your zone of control, but that is literally not an option here, because it ignores your map control of all routes through mid, and you can't affect the basket area from mid.
Kraken has a lot of counter play cause 90% of players right now don’t know how to use it
"You're free to start moving back into the game, while they're running to a phone booth to take off their superhero costume."
Nothing particularly profound about this line, I just thought it was very funny. Bravo.
In Splatoon 1's early days, if you wanted to retake area, you first needed to kill dynamo roller
That was a fun time
if kracken were to be made killable, then it would be a special that becomes more useless than angle shooter subweapon
While kraken is annoying to deal with, it has counters. From what I’ve experienced I’ve been easily able to out swim the kraken, and then kill it once it’s over. Also, it’s really easy to lead a kraken somewhere where they can easily be killed by a teammate. Kraken is good but it’s not like you can’t play around it
I've used Kraken nonstop since launch and there is counterplay. The counterplay is to gtfo, not try to kill the invincible giant squid/octopus with a special. If you have any way to go fast, do it. Kraken travels in an extremely linear fashion. Also get away from your teammates. They could wind up being collateral if the kraken doesn't end up herding your teammate(s) with you, and neither is a good situation for your team. It is busted on tower though, and if this isn't a thing already then Kraken should deplete much faster while you're on the tower with it
I don’t think it’s as strong as crab is right now But I do think kraken has major issues right now, at least in solo queue. Sure you can go somewhere else, but 1. because of the maps you oftentimes don’t have other places to go, and 2. not all areas of the map are equally important. The area around the objective is much more important to control than others, and kraken can displace the enemy team from playing in that general area for longer than any other special while being less vulnerable.
One good strategy against Kraken is to use Ninja Squid so you can hide from it. Then you can try to shark close enough to get the splat once they transform back.
Kraken is sort of the hard counter to missiles. The power of missiles is that it forces you to move or die. The kraken can hold its ground and even push forward a little bit to fall back to the same position. Granted you're kind of just using your special to survive another which isn't great, but none of the other specials can do the same. In a coordinated team it could be quite a powerful ability
I find the weapon kind of annoying sometimes but I don't think it is broken.
mobility IS a form of counterplay.
You have direct counterplay ....."Can I 1v1 this safely?"
and indirect counterplay .... "If they can't see me, they can't kill me" ...."if they can't catch me, they can't kill me".
if someone pops their kraken off in a strange spot , it loses some of its value. you can join a team mate and create an advantageous situation somewhere else while the kraken struggles to lumber someplace that is effective.
My biggest complaint is that it is pretty quiet. I don't hear it well if I am close to fighting. So almost all of my kraken deaths come from getting run over from behind. I feel like that is more my fault, and I can live with it.