Is this bike ACTUALLY any good?? The Wrap-up! | KTM 500 Madigan Track Desert Crossing Part 6
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- Опубликовано: 13 июл 2024
- All the facts and figures, all the issues. A frank discussion about what worked and what didn't.
Part 6 of a two-week, six thousand kilometer ride aboard the KTM 500 EXC.
00:00 Intro
01:00 Mosko 80's, Globetrottin' rack, suspension
03:46 Sprockets, KKE wheels, chain
05:05 Pirelli and Motoz tyres
06:51 Air filter & oil changes
07:45 Helmet intercoms, GPS, inReach & SPOT, sat phones
11:11 Fuel economy
14:12 Fuel pump failures
17:20 Subframe bolts, battery & other issues
20:38 Final thoughts
Full series -
Part 1, Saved by a Stranger: • SAVED by a stranger! |...
Part 2, What Else Can Go Wrong: • What ELSE can go wrong...
Part 3, Followed by a Dingo: • Followed by a DINGO! ...
Part 4, Are we CRAZY? • Are we CRAZY? This tra...
Part 5, Broken down and NO spare! • Broken down and NO spa...
Part 6, The Wrap-up: • Is this bike ACTUALLY ...
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See something on the bike you like? There's probably a video.. Check these playlists:
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All my KTM 500 EXC videos:
• KTM 500 EXC-F 2019
All my Ride Tech and Gear videos:
• Ride Tech and Gear
All my Ride videos:
• Ride videos
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Very generous of you to put the work in to share your experience Kieth.. Thank you.
My pleasure
Re fuel pumps, watch Tacomoto’s recent vid on the 500 fuel pumps. The best explanation of everything about them and he sells his own brand now.
Great tip, thanks!
Can attest to the 3000H pump they sell; bit pricey but the peace of mind is worth it!
Another great series and video mate, thanks for taking the time to share 👍 that’s seriously good fuel economy for that type of riding.
Now it's consistently around the 20-mark I'm very happy.
Great series!! This is essentially the set up I run in Utah with the high desert riding, although I'd love to ride the Simpson. Thanks for your insight as I haven't done as much testing/riding as you have . The 500 is an amazing bike.
Amazing video, Keith. This channel is a great reference for anyone looking for info on a 500 and specially a long-term usage. Thanks for sharing!
Cheers for putting in the hours on production Keith, the series has been very enjoyable to watch.
I think you are spot on that most bikes have loose bolt issues over that distance, and they all have their own mechanical weaknesses. I had countless things rattle loose on my trip, even some with red Loctite!
Glad to see you are still loving the KTM, it looks like you have got it set up beautifully now.
thanks Keith. Great series as usual. Really appreciate the effort you put into these - its helps us all
Glad you like them!
Thanks for the series and the rap up. So much valuable info on what works and what does need to be changed.
That's my aim, to provide valuable content 👍
Great series mate. Well done.
Thanks!
Thumbs up Keith! 👍👍👍 Great series… appreciate the time you put in…. Cheers!
Very welcome
Great post ride report! Keep up the great work.
Thanks!
Good on you for letting us in on your trip love being a passenger well done
Great info and easy listening
My pleasure
Like you easy to watch laid back style Keith and look foreward to your next trip or project. Al the best mate.
Great vids, and incredibly helpful. Thanks Keith
Glad you like them!
Thanks Keith, great series. 👍👍
Thanks for watching!
Love it Keith. Thanks. Another great series and as a 500 EXCF owner I get so much from your knowledge and experience. Thanks again. Jim UK
Very welcome, thanks for watching!
Thank you! A wealth of information.
Kudos for efforts in the production mate.👍
Much appreciated!
Great trip and review 👍
Mate I love watching your videos! I have been doing my own head in with which bike to buy next. I recently sold my CRF300L, and wanted either another 500/501 or try the 690/701. I think I'll go back to what I know (and should have never sold) another 500/501.. keep up the good work, your episodes rock and I appreciate how much time you put into your videos!!
Awesome vid thanks Kieth!
No problem 👍
I have the same bike! This is the build that I will be mimicing! You have done an amazing job not only puting this build together but then proving it can withstand a trip of that magnitude! Very well done.
Thank you very much! Yes it can definitely go the distance, no issues.
Thanks Keith, another great video, fabulous trip.. if you can, would love to hear much more detail on the suspension changes , how it was done, parts etc..
Sadly this was not my work 😃, I just handed over the bits and the cash to an expert... Rear spring was just one heavier as per the table, no other changes. Forks - Chad calls it his "speed-sensitive mid valve". Sorry I don't have any more info.
Great video thanks
No problem 👍
I have moved over to a 500 for adventure travel as well. Seems to be a movement of sorts of late towards smaller enduros for light weight ADV riding. I think us seasoned riders are coming full circle and finding that the little bikes can still do it all and with a lot less wear and tear on us physically and financially. Great recap, happy to hear that you're still a fan of the 500, not that I expected it to be any different.
Agree, light-weight is far easier on the body.
i agree except for the financial bit😢 im 26k nzd into my 500. thats a shit load for a dirtbike.
Great Info,,, Thanks
Great video thanks Keith! I’ve had a lot of the same issues on my bike and also had to replace the fuel pump. Sub-frame bolts have snapped on one ride but I should have checked those more often. Rear wheel bearings gave out on another trip and small battery has been temperamental. Thinking of wiring in a relay into the starter circuit, so the battery doesn’t drain when I forget the key in the ignition. Love the 500 though - great bike!
Mine 500 exc-f 6 years, almost 600 hours mostly off-road and fuel pump still strong but I indeed never ran it dry. With KTM good to have a spare anyway. nice trip. Love that bike.
Good to hear, sounds like yours is a good one. But yes carry a spare!
buying my 500 was the best thing ever, such a great bike - look after them and they do the same for you - serious trip that is mate, serious so well done you guys and well done the bikes
Couldn't agree more!
Very informative video. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Outstanding discussion.Most enjoyable,thks.JHB-SA.
Thanks!
Great vid Keith.
Thanks Nerb!
Good on ya Keith, as always great presentation and thanks for the tip on the new tyres. I had lithium battery and actually went back to AGM. I think the KTM brand is just getting better and better
Thanks... so lithium spooked you out huh?
@@keithjob no just preferred AGM in the KTM 990 superduke
Great bike,great trip, great bloke!!!
Love my FE501 cousin to the Ktm
Thanks for that! Enjoy the 501!
Keith. Thx for all the info
I have a 500 also. First long ride the kickstand screws etc came apart. Replaced, safety wired everything and used a clevis pin as the primary "bolt". No problems since.
Safety wire seems to be the go for some of these bolts.
Thanks
Awesome, thanks for the Super Thanks!
Thanks for a great wrap up, I see you are enjoying the EXC as much as I do mine. Here's a project for you, the bike is well sorted how about a complete rethink of what you carry? That's not a criticism, merely the sort of challenge I continually set myself, having a look at every single item, how to do it lighter/simpler/less bulky and all that.
😀great video Keith!!
Thanks!
Excellent report Kieth, thank you for taking the time. With your subframe bolts, yes they come loose. I use the red locktight and I also tie wire them now. I just did a 3500k trip and no subframe bolt issues (other bolts did come loose). I've also given up on the lithium batteries and gone back to AGM, I now have a volt meter on my bike so I can monitor the charge, a must have gadget. Input charge could be the issue with the Lithium. All the best and keep up the great vids. Cheers John
Thanks for the info John. Yeah the lithium has me a bit nervous, especially on a long trip where replacements would be scarce.
Take a spare tiny fuel filter (within the tank fuel line connector). Those do get clogged and are easy to change. Take more air filters, on mine on dusty trips I have to change it every other day, sometimes more.
Great ride report! You guys are solid running 500-600K+ days. Ordered a fuel pump and filter for a spare; hope to never need them, but if so you have saved the day :)
Easy enough to change if you have to, just take your time and work through it.
Bike is almost 10 yrs old now, 13k miles still on stock pump and filter. Ordered the tacomoto pump and filter kit (finally in stock), along with an extra Golan filter. Will replace and keep the stock for a spare to carry along on big trips. Have another set on the smaller 3 gallon tank as well. It will be nice to have the field service screw adjustment clamps.
The occurances are so sporadic... you guys had two failures on one trip, and between all of our friends, we have never had a failure on 8 higher mileage 2012 and newer 450-500's. Wonder what the root causes for failures are? We run ours dry all the time, and have to do the gas dance (bike lean) cause we are typically coming back on some road just to make it to a station.
Regardless, great ride report and bike set up. Thanks for all the production time, we sure do appreciate it Keith.
I fabricated a rack observing what you purchased. When I machined the bos that form the bottom attachment I was careful to ensure the bolt bottomed on the stepped shank to ensure it was tight clamping the sub frame to the frame. The clearance to the rack was ever so slight nearly being size for size, the purpose is the flex in the rack/rear was less likely to act on the bolt and loosen it.
Perhaps a slight machine under the head of you sub frame bolt could assist with ensuring the sane thing. It’s a bit har to wire. Loctite being your other friend of course.
Do you have a public email to share photos and things Keith?
@@brendenvosper7772 keithjobbusiness@gmail.com
The aluminium subframe of the 500 EXC is weak and not designed to take so much luggage. Even with the racks there is a huge load on the bolts and upper frame. I have once cracked a lower frame with no luggage (only from harsh jump landings I suppose) and brough it to weld and reinforce. I suppose the bolts got loose because the aluminium of the frame and the bolts is put under so much strain that it crushes and produces play. I moved to the 501, I will see if the composite subframe provides more dampening and resistance (many say it is not the case - so far so good)
Well put together Keith, enjoyed your trip ,the fuel pumps are always the elephant 🐘 in the room we always take a complete pump and the pump motor .
The motor is a bit more fiddley to change but it's a 3 off the pump size, because of battery issue with lithium I have always run a capacitor in line so if battery dies I can jump start it or try bum start the capacitor will hold enough charge to keep everything going.
Great series mate.
I think pre-fitting the short hose to the pump motor, and having already swapped the hose clamps on the in-tank filter would help enormously.
I'm interested in the capacitor solution... got a link or more details?
@@keithjob send me your email Keith, we have been using capacitor add on since 2012 .
capacitor add on.
firstly we have been using these before you could even buy them back in 2012 on the first
fuel injected ktms.
we run these in parallel with the battery ,if battery dies you can still jump start or use jumper leads
from another bike to start bike , you only need to do a negative and positive wire from capacitor
and add to battery terminals, these capacitors hold more than enough charge to run fuel pump
and ecu.
we have actually tried running these years ago as a test with no battery and its 100% ,but obviously
you cant use electric starter.
the capacitors are available from jay-car for about 10 dollars each, hope you found this helpful
10,000 farads 40volts
best regards Allen
Just to add to the fuel tank level discussion, I too have the IMS tank. I've recently ordered a cheap fuel pump/filter/regulator kit [ test purposes at this stage ] and having checked how the fuel pump circuit works [ Tac Moto video ] I don't think it would too difficult to run a tee off the existing fuel lines, then run a piece of fuel hose [ filter on end ], across the the r/h side of the tank. A little tricky to get it all to sit right, but technically will work. Once I do it I'll report back.
Please do... this sounds very interesting.
Safety wire might be a good idea on some of those bolts.
looks like ill need some mods to my 500. taco moto fuel pump for a start. my first one crapped out when bike was new as i left fuel in tank for over its first year unridden a d turned to gel.
ive got same rear rack as you and mosko 80 so all good there.
im working on seat myself, sick of so called moto seat trimmers.
got the IMS 17 as well, maybe a bottom hose connecting both sides?
great vid cheers.
Great video excellent synopsis full of useful information. Yes you are absolutely right about the lithium batteries I also found them very unpredictable and simply put not reliable enough for these kind of trips.
Which model of the EK chain did you use? The 520 O ring or the x??
520 X ring.
Hi Keith, great series…re fuel tank, what about alternatives like the Acerbis..similar capacity - same issue with stranded fuel?
its exactly the same with acerbis :-)
I have a 250 excf ,done 74000km never get less than 25km/l . Fuel pump at similar km and hours started missing at higher revs ,did not stop. Testing showed pressure was dropping. Next pump is still going. Just change the battery, was still going fine but I was getting nervous, got a itec world battery rated at twice the cranking power and twice the amp/hour $145 .
25km/L is outstanding!
Old mate should have whipped out his laptop to check the fuel trims in the ECU. Oh wait, that Vortex has trim pots...literally 30+ year old technology like the Microtech D4 (look it up). Fuel trims would tell you if the ecu is richening the mixture to compensate for a mechanical problem such as partially blocked injector (poor atomization) or leaning it for a dirty air filter (less air flow for a given throttle position because Alpha-N) . The fact that old mate leaned it out on the side of the road tells me it wasn't tuned very well in the first place (and possibly still isn't).
Back in the day everybody said every car/bike had to be tuned individually on a dyno, but modern ecus are so good that they can work really well out of the box. Unfortunately you don't have a modern ECU. Carbs can make just as much power and torque as efi, but good efi gives better throttle response, cold starting and fuel economy. I don't know why moto efi (both KTM and aftermarket) is so far behind car efi. BTW 5L/100km is not particularly good in a modern efi context, a CRF300 Rally (similar bike weight) got 4L/100km on a French Line crossing, 20% less fuel.
Regardless of ecu, I recommend taking a bottle of fuel injector cleaner. Unless you encounter dirty fuel earlier, save it for your last fill up before a desert crossing. Put some in the tank and a bit in each bladder. One small bottle is heaps for a bike, regardless of how much fuel you are carrying.
Awesome keith. Got a mate who races mx and he swears by using silicone on his bolts , he says loctite still rattles off
I have just heard that tip recently for 4WD application... I will try it out on these subframe bolts!
fuel pump @300hrs is pretty good, i had issues at about the same and replaced, I am going full quantum or taco moto. With the battery a couple times a year I run a maintenance charge using a smart charger for lithium batteries. My kato is at over 400 hrs next is suspension, top end , dirt tricks sprockets, head stem and swingarm bearings and I don't trickle charge due to the electrical system with no key so there is always power on.
The taco unit sounds good. Will check that out.
check dirt tricks sprockets, titatuim alloy or something the used them in the dakar without changing@@keithjob
Another great informative video Keith! 👍🏼 What CCA rating is your lithium battery? I found the standard one in my 500 was a Skyrich brand that’s only 120CCA, and in cold weather it really struggled to start the bike, to the point where sometimes I’d have to jump start it because the voltage just got too low. I saw a video suggesting that the standard size batteries just aren’t good for the 500’s, so I’ve now just bought an SSB lithium battery with 220CCA and hoping it will be much better when the cold weather comes again. Also, you mentioned having a trickle charger on your bike. Did you mean you keep it on a trickle charger while you aren’t riding it? I believe (could be wrong) that trickle charging lithium is actually not a good thing to do with a lithium battery. Assuming you have nothing on your bike that continually drains your battery when the bike is stored, lithium tends to store well and shouldn’t need topping up constantly. You’re better off to just run the bike every few weeks (or even stretch it out longer) to top it up again! I’m sure there are videos out there explaining it better than I can.
Not sure on the CCA, I'll have to check. I think it's a "Motobatt" brand. The trickle charger is for when in the shed, it's a proper unit designed purely for lithium batteries, by Optimate.
Interesting video, Keith. If the bottoms of the fuel tank are level on both sides (or the pump side lower) could you drill and plumb in a small balance pipe to transfer fuel from the "dead" side to the fuel pump side? Or perhaps use a small vacuum operated fuel pump to transfer fuel from side to side? These things are cheap and super simple and reliable and would run whenever the engine is running and can run dry without issue. Probably lots of options out there. Shame the tank wasn't designed a bit better, considering how expensive the buggers are...
Yeah I thought about these two possible solutions too for some time now. Never tries it but would be very interessting
Interesting ideas. It would be great to solve, at the moment I'm carrying around 2kg extra for no benefit!
@@keithjob Doesn't your bike even have an auxilliary fuel inlet port? So 1 hole on the right side would be enought and you just route it to the aux port of your pump.
Depeding on what material the tank is, I'd say a thread insert which has to be put in place with some soldering irons would be most reliable. Then after it's in place, a normal thread to hose adapter and the rest is self explanatory.
Otherwise if somehow possible (doubt it's acessable enough) an adapter with O-Ring and nut, all cleaned with some acetone and red locktite. Even less likely to ever come out.
The noise on the other bike could be the starter clutch. Mine wore out and ther are some good videos how to replace them.
I agree and also clean oil can help them come good again.
Back up kick start might be a good idea, no?
Where do you guys do your oil changes and discard the old oil? I’m yet to do a oil change on the road. I’m assuming you just hit up the roadhouses?
yeah, or bike shops in towns (if you can find one!) Or befriend a local 😎
i have a thuraya satphone worked flawlessly in the simpson (and everywhere else), so your mate might have issues with his phone not the satellite. from what i understand thuraya has a geostationary satellite so if you have clear sky to the north west you get good service. if you're underneath the south side of a mountain maybe not so good.
Yes we were surprised too, we thought it definitely should've worked in the middle of the desert in central Australia. Maybe a once-off!
2018 500 it’s slow to start with cold air temp, several attempts before it fires up. Warm weather no problems. Can the 500 be crash started- roll started with flat battery
Yes, I have done it with a few of my mates bikes, 500's.
Regarding the 17L tank..what about using the second auxiliary fuel pump bolt to the last 2L with a mod?
I’m also planning on doing a big trip soon. Have you looked into the capacitor on the battery mod?
No, I've only heard about this from comments in this vid! It's on the list now to investigate!
Nice video thank you. Isn’t there a better tank that avoids the problems with fuel?
Not that I know of. You would need some sort of balance-pipe setup.
acerbis
@@keithjob that’s what I was thinking. These tanks don’t come cheap for the plastic cans they are, you’d expect the least is that they thought of some simple hose to join the two sides… triggers me to look up how things work on rally bikes, can’t think they’d accept to give up on litres of fuel in that application. cheers.
@@simonhantler8062 do they have a pipe between the two sides? Are they those with the big bulge on top? Not sure about those as they seem to impede movement.
@@miro_s yeah acerbis bit in top. i heard they have same issue.
Im interested if you plan to change brand of bike in the near future.
I don't think I'll change in the near future. This one is ticking all the boxes at the moment.
@@keithjob I see the new KTM 890 Rally sold out.
Maybe the lithium batteries are getting too hot. They don’t like heat and it shortens their life. You can carry a capacitor to connect across the terminals for when the battery dies so it will keep running after a jumpstart. Let me know if you need one as I have some extras.
Keen on the capacitor solution! Could you email me at keithjobbusiness@gmail.com with details.
How many kms has the 500 done now total keith
21,000km, 315hrs. Probably time to do the top end... 🤔
@@keithjob wow that’s good going well done mate. Be sure to video that one when the time comes
According to the experts and oil analysis, you can skip some of those oul changes
"Some" or "One"? I could potentially have skipped one, but really it's no big deal to carry a litre bottle of oil, and the change doesn't take long.
See if they make a lithium iron battery to fit your bike
Whats the price of a fuel pump?
The All-Balls kit I bought was about $130.
@@keithjob I would be wary of an All-Balls fuel pump, unless other KTM owners (sufficient sample size) have given good reports of their long term durability. I don't use All-Balls bearings because they are unbranded Chinese mystery bearings. The cheapest of the cheap, sold at top dollar.
Change the pump every 200hrs
Probably good advice, do pump and filter at the same time. They're not that expensive.
Bit cheeky. Carry a spare carburetor? Carry an extra fuel pump. Bike needs some electronic tuning mods. Said no carby bike owner ever.
Almost all the issues seem to be self inflicted.
Check critical bolt torque.
Run a translucent tank so you can “see” fuel level. Black is for looks only.
Fuel pumps fail when you are frequently running out. Or not filtering fuel going in( Twin Air makes a filler filter) .
For long distance get the upgraded pump
from Tacomoto.
The big tanks for these bikes always force fuel low and to the sides. The Honda tanks are much worse and leave lots of fuel in both sides.
Seems like a very reliable bike for riding ADV to me.
Black is indeed for looks. I deliberately chose black knowing the fuel thing would probably come back to bite me... which it did 😬