ATC 2.5KW spindle review - possibly the best Chinese CNC spindle out there!
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- full review of Chinese ATC spindle, unboxing, first impressions, finish quality, vibration test, noise test, installation and results.
I was looking for a reliable manufacturer of cnc spindles and it looks like i found one.
I can honestly say that this is possibly the best Chinese spindle on the market, with really good support behind.
also they provide very high quality tool holders from company in Taiwan: Parfaite www.parfaite.co...
Spindle tool holder which i got is a ISO25 taper and ER20 collet.
Spindle price was 1450usd.
spindle manufacturer website: www.jian-ken.com
contact email: jk@jian-ken.com
ceramic ballbearing manufacturer: www.coorstek.com
coorstek cool video about ball bearings: • Cerbec Balls - Amazin...
if you want to know more, very interesting research paper on ceramic bearings: ntrs.nasa.gov/...
excellent paper on spindle vibrations:
www.researchga...
Thank you very much for your review. You helped me a lot in making my decision. Now I'm negotiating delivery from the manufacturer. All the very best to you!
Hi Fox
After years of upgrading my CNC, I finally purchased the JGL 2.2kw spindle.
Question: how did you connect the power cable?
My old spindle has a 4 pin plug. But this ATC spindle has the wire coming out, did you took that plug off or just connected “cable to cable”
Thank you for any help. Always waiting for your next video keep it up
FYI This company is a Taiwanese company. Taiwan and China are two separate places despite both being in the majority culturally Chinese. Taiwan is one of the worlds leading manufacturers of very affordable accurate machine tools surpassed only by Japan and Germany in quality. It is pretty amazing what they can make here- it is not cheap low standard products like much of the stuff from China. Cost is higher but you get what you pay for.Still way cheaper than other counties for the quality.
dont they call themselves the republic of china?
Hi there, just out of interest, do you still recommend this spindle after a couple of years?
What do you think no answer means...!! I think that is your answer
@@mamoshimamoshian9078 yes, the silence is deafening.
@@mamoshimamoshian9078
1. youtube sux when you trying to find comments,
2 i dont have always a time to answer all the comments.
3 I already answered here ruclips.net/video/h9q6j7POgOI/видео.html :)
@@molitovv
1. youtube sux when you trying to find comments,
2 i dont have always a time to answer all the comments.
3 I already answered here ruclips.net/video/h9q6j7POgOI/видео.html :)
Piotr Fox Wysocki is one of the most underrated channel on youtube
just keep up the good work, you are ammazing !!
I have been researching pneumatic ATC spindles, so your video is timely.
How much heavier is the JGL-100 than your previous 2.2kw spindle? Curious if the 14.6kg they list is shipping weight or the weight of the spindle itself.
i also have very good experience with chinese spindles..
i found somehow all of them good quality
right now im looking for a 2.2 constant torque and find this company on aliexpress..
like to use for aluminum and wood..
thank you for your video
Most spindles I've found require anywhere from 90 to 110 psi for the tool-changer to operate. I'm impressed this can use such a low pressure to change the tool.
Thank you very much for taking the bet and this extended review. This is priceless content for all of us CNC builders. Now I have a spindle supplier! Made my day 👍
Edit: oh, and thank you also for the vibrometer app test, was wondering just yesterday if this could be used for mill vibrations measurements
I'm glad you like this review, I was looking for video like that for a long time, usually you find videos of spindle cutting something or tool change in action, but no explanations. But i always have to know WHY? :)
vibrometer app is not a reliable way of measuring spindle vibration, but it gives you a ball park reading. i guess it is missing half of the frequencies.
If everyone would use this app to share the results, woe could have a rough standard we could compare to.
I used this app to find a sweet spot on my previous spindle between speed and vibrations. so i can mill stuff with half decent finish and reduced chatter.
Hi Fox
I also bought the 2.2kw spindle from Janken and my machine is ready for use So wanted to test the spindle for the first time and when turning on a short circuit on the head where the wiring of the spindle comes out. So I assume something's not right on the inside of the spindle. How would you handle this?
Absolutely amazing! Maybe the most important take away is your advice to rig up enough to safely test, learn how the system will work and how you'll use the system, then do any finishing work (or alterations, etc.)
I'm sure somebody already told you, but you need a three way valve so when you close the valve it vents the air off between the valve and the spindle. Your slow reaction may be because it takes a little time for the air to leak down in that stretch of tube.
Ok... I admit I am setting up a similar spindle and I was not 100% sure either. Now I have it figured out. I think. You were right... well kind of. The return air port goes to the return side of a dual acting cylinder. I was also right. Sort of. You have to release the air between your valve and the cylinder and it will retract almost instantly just from spring pressure on the draw bar. I don't know if the air cylinder has a return spring or not. If it doesn't or it sticks a little you could get friction and heat from the ram of the cylinder rubbing on the end of the draw bar when the spindle is turning. You really need that return air. What you need for control, and maybe you already know that, is a 2 position 4 way 5 port change over valve. They make them either manually activated or electrically (solenoid) activated.
yeah, i got 3 way solenoid and its instant. i haven't even connected it to power just using switch on the valve.
Hi. You convinced me to purchase the JGL100 3.2! Did you go with the 2 pole 400hz version? Or 4 pole 800hz? Thanks!
400
I just ordered the 4-pole, 800Hz version after discussing with the folks at Jianken. Specifically, a JGL-100/3.2R24-30. I already had a 1kHz VFD. The reasoning was lower temperature / higher torque at lower RPM.
Fox, you should be getting commissions from them 😜 At least freebies.
Hi there, I am also looking to buy one of these chinese spindles JGL 100 2.2KW.
I wonder whether you can mill steel with those?
Ready around in forums they say you need a high torque and low rpm spindle to mill steel.
Do you have any experience milling steel with your JGLspindle?
Some but not enough to advice on it
Let the air out at tool changing pipe. Build a 3/2 valve instead of the airgun thingie. You have to wait because the pressure need to decrease by the sealings, which takes time.
Yes you are right there is still air backed up in that line. it needs to escape...
Always use a 5/3 way valve and the air return inlet instead of the 3/2 you show otherwise you are never sure the air cylinder is completely free from the draw bar of the tool changer. If you do not use the air return, the cylinder may rest on the top of the draw bar (yes - without pressure but it will rest on top) and this will result in wearing out the draw bar or the piston rod.
The reason for the tool change to take so long is because you do not relieve the air pressure from the cylinder - it takes time for the pressure to leak through your not-so-tight couplings ...
With a 5/3 way valve, you will always have one end of the cylinder open and the other end under pressure. This also makes sure that the cylinder is in the defined upper position when milling.
Hi, would that work with a single acting solenoid or does it have to be a double acting. Thanks.
@@johnlynch6589 A single acting solenoid will do. You only want to activate the solenoid during a tool change so only a short time while releasing the tool and picking the next one.
@@Rob_65 that’s great. thanks for your response. Would you possibly have a pneumatic diagram for the application as the info on line is a little confusing.. thanks.
Looks great. I've been using a Spindtech ATC spindle for the last couple years and it's been great, but the tiny ISO10 taper is starting to get limiting. How much flow does the case pressurization take?
Can't tell precisely the flow but I will try to describe it. You should run it between 14 and 30psi. On a 50liter tank pressurized to 80psi it lasts for around 3-5 min before compressor turns on. I hope it helps
Your surface finish is as good as any mid-range professional grade CNC! Beautiful work.
Hello Piotr, I got the JGD 2.2kw water cooled from Jianken (after seeing your review). Can you tell me how you are cooling your spindle? I would like to use a closed loop radiator system but I am not sure if I would have a problem with galvanic corrosion using an aluminum radiator with the the chrome plated steel water jacket that is inside the spindle.
im using a big aquarium pump in a closed bucket. works without a problem
Hi, I wonder if this spindle can be used for steel milling? I mean if it can be run on low speeds? Thank you.
Great video Piotr, thanks for sharing. We're looking for a great ATC spindle, this looks like it's it!
After what I saw you do with granite, I have seen most of your videos. Great stuff, man. Full of innovations with medium investment and usual tools. Greetings from Lima, Peru. Excellent work.
Great Video, If you don'r mind can you state what Model number on given spindle and Brand and model of VFD. Hate reinventing the wheel. Thanks
What if you actually forget to wait until the spindle unlocks after a tool change (or what if you program an automatic change without G4)? You mentioned that there's a risk of "burning down" the spindle, but how big of a risk is it? Not trying to be snarky, I'm actually wondering how careful I need to be. Consider:
1) There's likely not going to be mechanical damage; the forces coming from standstill are low + pushing against pressured air (if I understood the mechanism) should cushion it.
2) The spindle is water cooled, it doesn't need air flow to prevent overheating of the windings. The water probably isn't an all-saving solution, but should be enough for (3) to kick in.
3) The VFD will shut the spindle down if it detects a stall / overcurrent, configurable on the chinese VFD I have, which should tell Mach3/Mach4/LinuxCNC to trigger emergency stop and even if the host computer freezes up, the VFD will lock up for 60 seconds (IIRC) before trying again.
Thanks!
I did forget once to wait/depressurize the spindle and it didn't died. But it's not good idea. Since then I put 3 way solenoid valve. Works like dream. It's not even powered because it has a mechanical button to trigger it.
You mention that you used the jian-ken spindle and in your list of info you mention another spindle mfr - Parfaite. Do you have any comments on this mfr especially compared to Jian-ken? What are you using for your VFD? Thx.
Parfaite are the tool holders which i have and spindle is from jianken. vfd is 2.2kw huanyang. you can find it in my other videos
Is the iso25 taper beefy enough to take any respectable "hog" cuts? Would a bt30 be much better?
bt30 in my opinion is more common. size wise its just 5mm more on the diameter. so beef wise not so much of a difference ;) recently i was milling something with 8mm end mill, 13mm deep and 1mm side cut. travel speed 1000mm/min. tool deflection is bigger problem than a tool holder.
I'm just building my first cnc... do you think it makes sense to get a 2.2kW cheap Chinese spindle kit (spindle, vfd, collet set, water cooler, all for about $240 shipped) to start with, or should I save up/wait and get this or other much better spindle? I have a feeling like it's not bad to start with the cheap one since at least then I can get going and not keep dreaming about expensive parts I might not get for a while.
Yes it definitely makes sense to start with 2.2kw cheap spindle. You will learn on it, make tons of mistakes and when you make a major one, it won't cost you much. I started like this and I'm glad I did.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thanks for the advice. I think you have a really nice design for your cnc.
Hey, i went ahead and bought one spindle. I have a question on how you plumbed the various pressure lines. The manual specifies that Inlet and Return should be at around ~90PSI but the "Dust" one should be at ~65PSI.... are you running different pressure on them or do you actually run the Dust one at 90PSI also since they are triggered together?
If you use 90PSI for both, I would expect the dust seals to blow out or wear more quickly.
Hi Piotr! Thank you for the great review. Do you think I could use this spindle on a CNC Router parts.com machine? I am looking for a higher performance spindle than Avid CNC offers. Also what VSD do you recommend with this spindle?
well.. i would look for for better performance machine. this spindle is too heavy for it.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki ah ok cool that helps a lot. Thank you very much!
@@PiotrFoxWysocki can you please tell me how heavy that spindle is?
How has the spindle proved itself over time?
Have there been any major problems or things that have bothered you?
i am considering buying a bt30 spindle with a changer. but i am also open for alternatives.
@@BaNO3 spindle empty weight is 15 kg. i have made second review after over a year. please check in my latest videos
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Are you sure the spindle would be too heavy for the pro CNC kit? AVID CNC (aka cnc router parts) sells a spindle on their website that weighs 14kg (the 8.7 HP (6.5 kW) Hiteco) Possibly better to get the NEMA 34 steppers over the NEMA 23 though, right?
Great Machine. And thanks for the review. How well does it cut Aluminium and steel?
cutting aluminium : ruclips.net/video/h9q6j7POgOI/видео.html
hardened steel parallel: ruclips.net/video/rXs4fsPsSGw/видео.html
surface finish: ruclips.net/video/bSC76fY239E/видео.html
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thanks for the quick reply. Really an awesome mill you have built
Hi, Fox! Great video, thanks! I’ve just received JGL-100. Do you use pure water for cooling? Did you add antifreeze or something like that?
i use water mixed with isopropyl alcohol in closed bucket in dark cabinet. i guess you could use car radiator coolant as well, i guess.
Dont use antifreeze. It will eat away at the pipes over time. Unless your in a cold environment, antifreeze shouldn't be used in places not designed for them. Use pure water with an antibacterial additive
@@jacobamador7989 Thanks!
Hi
I am also in negotiations with Jianken and ordered the 2.2 kw spindle.
Ask what do you use in the spindle for cooling, is this just water or are you using other stuff to cool your spindle
Just wayer wit isopropyl alcohol to prevent any life form developing in there
Hey Fox, did you ever replaced your linear rails and ball screws after you build the machine?? I do recall you mentioned that you would like to replace it at some point, but I might have lost track!🙈
Thanks
JD
im going too, not sure when, but i would guess soonish.
Piotr Fox Wysocki thanks for your reply. I would say the current hard-where is doing pretty well. I am sitting with a Chinese router and cut a lot of Titanium, Zirconium and Ti-mascis, and I sit with a OMIO 2200x. It is something like the 60 x 40 you had. The machine has no rigidity what so ever. The problem I would say is due to the non rigidity, I brake or chip a lot of cutters. The other concern I do have is that the titanium family wants slower spindle speeds. Around 6000 rpm. Anything faster than that cause some buildup on the cutter and broken butters. I suspect I’m gonna have to go the build a rigid machine. !?!?🙈🙈
It looks like you make use of Mach3. Would you say it is a soft where you would recommend ??? Maybe something like Linux perhaps???
Hi Piotr, Ive just received my JGL 120-5.5KW spindle from Jainken. Im not as impressed as you've been. Although you haven't got any user manuals I've got. 22 pages of nothing. It doesnt say a single word on how to connect the motors or what inputs and outputs its got. Really frustrating. So Im here to ask you some questions if you dont mind. You've (and I) got a wire terminal called "SENSOR" on the motor. You mention in your video that they are tool change wires but you don't use it during your ATC test. You operate your ATC by applying air pressure only. What are those "SENSOR" wires for exactly and how to wire them (connect them to Mach3)? Is that possible for you to make a video about hooking it up with Mach3? Thank you!
Wow you go a monster ! :) lack of manual ruins the whole experience.. At the time i got mine they said that they are working on a new manual... obviously it was a sales talk..
on the other hand i think because it is the factory and they make those spindles for manufacturers of cnc machines, no one cares about manual because they already know what to do with them.
some help on the wires:
SENSOR its just on/off switch. and this would be for the tool changer to know the tool has been released. or something like that. but i will investigate it closer.
another 2 wires for the thermistor are for overheating. again it would be for a proper cnc.
you can ignore those 2 wires.
I'm changing tools by hand anyway. couldn't be bothered building a tool changer. Doing it by hand is quick enough.
i guess you can have tool changer without plugging the SENSOR. it could be an extra check but its not necessary.
thermistor is for overheating, and it could be plugged in to a emergency stop button. thermistor is a temperature sensor embedded in to the spindle windings once temperature reaches around 100C (forger precise number) it switches on.
this is in place when something goes wrong with the flow of the coolant spindle.
my advice would be to put a bigger pump for the coolant so you are sure there is water flowing and monitor temperature of the coolant. but only for few times you are using it. once you are sure the temperature doesn't go above 30-40deg. you can be sure it wont go up anytime in the future.
Sensors.. when you have them its good to use them but its not necessary.
piping:
air seal - this one is very important and it has to be used. 0.2bar
air return - You don't have to use it. and i wouldn't even recommend to do so.
air inlet - tool change 0.8bar.
So far My spindle is running just like it was new and if i kill it somehow i will buy the same one :) its really awesome! even without the manual :)
really nice to see the little attention to detail things they did here (apart from forgetting the manual, but hey it make sure you get the updated one online i suppose) like the labels on the back, extra care on packaging etc, even if its a small thing its still something they chose to do instead of ignore. just from these things (and the precision surfaces/ usa bearings) you can tell they want to make a product that lasts a long time and hope for customers to come back, not just make quick money on the cheapest possible solution.
Lovely spindle demo, how much does it weigh and do you have a counterbalance system in place for the extra weight or doesn’t it need it?
i was wondering exactly the same thing but it doesn't need counterbalance . it weight 15 kg / 30 pounds
Hi Mr Fox,
I ve been wondering why some industrial (or not) CNC machines (for wood or metal) use 9 - 10kw spindle while 2.5kw or 4kw seems to be very good for any jobs?
Could you share your insight
I guess mostly because people have 220v at home and I guess it got more popular. I think everything above 3kw it's 380v. Other thing is that for wood they might use much bigger tools where for metal you use rather small bits. I'm speculating. In big pro machines they use higher kw spindles and it doesn't matter if its for wood or metal.
I visited the Jainken website for this atc spindle but didn't see cost. What did it cost and do you buy from them or other? Nice job as well.
all the details are in the video description and if you use my channel as a reference they will give you discounted price.
Absolutely outstanding review Fox. Very nice job.
I think you should buy another brace. It is tall enough and you are clamping it low down. Another brace higher up (on the metal part) would greatly promote stability and maybe make it even more quiet.
The manufacture only shows the support point where he's got it now.
You have to evacuate the air out of the cylinder after tool change immadiately. Not waiting until the pressure is decreases.
i have to ask why? according to the manufacturer i don't have too. but I'm open for suggestions.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki because of faster response and better force applikation on the tool. Mount a exhaust silencer or filter on the air outlet, that is much better, ive mounted one too
You need a 2/3 Way Festo Air Valve, 1 Air in, 2 ATC in, 3 airfilter. This valve opens just for the ATC process, after that you switch the valve.
I actually came back to this video to explain just this, the air needs to have somewhere to exhaust to, 2 position 4 way valve is what he needs(as you've described). They're pretty simple, but he definitely needs the 4 way, or the air gets trapped and only can leak out. You can also use a 5 port valve which will have separate exhaust ports.
If you want to test this, insert a new tool, release the air gun then unplug it - it'll exhaust quickly.
How is the spindle going so far? Still holding up to the task?
spindle is great. thank to the switch i saved on the end mills on the long run. i hope to make new video soonish. (with in a month)
It's 2021 do you still recommend this spindle?
Thank so much for your great details video about this spindle
Glad it was helpful!
Hello Piotr, thank you for recommending this company, I just purchased the JGL-80/1.5R24 alongside with the VFD and toolholders, will be installed on my aluminum router CNC soon. I'll be making some more videos about my router and the spindle and I'm sure I'll have some questions for you. I also exchanged many e-mails with the company but their documentation is not the best.
Nikita Skakun what was price for that spindle (without VFD and TH)?
@@mezzoo2 $1200 USD, another ~$200 for the VFD, and ~$100 for each ER16 tool holder. Shipping was another $200.
How quick was the response from Jianken? I have contacted them through their website and Aliexpress with no reply (Looking for the JGH-85 constant power spindle)
Its random. Keep trying. Maybe they missed your email.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thank you
Question: Does anyone know of a decent spindle that will run on 120v AC (15 or 20 amp)? I realize the maximum power would be in the 1.5kw range, but I'd really like to be able to use ER collets on my CNC instead of using hand router. Thanks.
On your CNC machine you have surface plate as a work table? Where you bought this surface plate with screw hole?
Thanks
I find answer on your chanel, thanks :)
I was just looking at their spindles a few days ago! Really glad you made this video since I am in the middle of choosing a good spindle for aluminum milling. Will there be another video, at a later date, to show the milling?
yes i will make part 2. and i will show some milling. but first i have to get use to this spindle and collect more questions to answer.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Great! Keep up the good work.
Please more aluminium milling videos, because i am tempted to buy it too. My standard 2.2kw water cooled spindle cant handle heavy aluminium milling.
I'm not sure what is your definition of heavy milling.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki fast cutting, 3000mm/min or even 4000, 4h job
Unintentional ASMR....Check!! Great review. Thank you for the share my friend.
Wonderful eye opener. I was in the market for the Ebay one but you turned me around. Definitely ATC IN THE FUTURE my crystal ball insists however more in the "non ATC" at the moment as funds dictate. I don't want to compromise quality so my question is; can you recommend a 1.5-2.2 air cooled model from them? Is it critical to go watercooled if my prototype turns into production work?
Thanks for the great vid!!! I'm subscribed....
@David Ashenbrener You can do exactly same stuff on non ATC spindle. it will just take more time. so no drama here :)
Air cooled vs water cooled.
i prefer water cooled because its much more quiet. and When i use water cooling I'm not worried that water or chips will get in to the spindle.
.
Awesome. Never thought of the chip issue. I use Kool Mist when matching alum. Cheap effective and concentrated for shipping cheaply.
Keep up the great informative vids.
Great review! What size air compressor are you using to be able to keep up with the air seal? How many liters per minute is required?
I have 60 liters. Set at max 85psi and it kicks every 3-4 min. If you have your set to default 120 it would last for much longer.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thanks for the reply. According to the spindle specification, 1-2bar should be used for the air seal, which is equivalent to 15-30psi. I guess I could use trial and error to see what works best.
Really impressive, keep up the good work. Now I want to upgrade my spindle but I’m not sure if my homemade cnc will handle it
they have also smaller spindles with atc or without, so perhaps you could find one which will suit your machine. this spindle weight is around 15kg, i forget to mention
If You have a 1605 ballscrewspindle it can hold and move the weight of 15kg.
CNCPRINT.BLOGSPOT yes, I actually got a 1605 and servo motora with plenty of torque but adding more weight to the gantry will cause me to go a bit slower or lower my acceleration to keep the surface finish still good
Very nice Piotr. I’m also super impressed with the quality of this ATC spindle you have. And the price seems very reasonable. (Pity the current USD:NZD exchange rate is so bad!!)
Hi; can you please tell me why this spindle has no drive keys? And looks like 30 taper .?
Mine might be the same as yours. Mine calls for g1 quality balanced tools (impossible?) and for temperature regulation to 25 plus or minus 2. And for the bearings to be run in for several hours and a warm up sequence before each use.
The manual for the spindle states that you should test the stator insulation resistance, did you do it and if so, how did you do it?
The right way is "high pot" testing, something that very few people own.
Hello, minute 17:00 the base plate is cast iron or aluminum
?
'
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I'm about the choose a spindle for my upcoming machine and would like to know what the lowspeed torque is like. Can you use a 40mm crown and endmill a surface at let say 1500rpm with the spindle loosing too much power? My choice now is the 5.5kW ATC from Jian-ken.
I don't use this spindle below 9000rpm. If you want to go slow you will have to get different spindle. Talk with janken and explain them your requirements. They have all sorts of spindles.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki ok thanks I will.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki what max diameter, depth and sidecut do you believe the 2.5kW spindle can handle? Alu foremost.
Yeah mine came with marketing paperwork only. I contacted them and their instructions were "don't worry you will work it out"
Hi. Very interesting. Well done.
Is this a complete diy cnc project? One day I'd love to retrofit and old Bridgeport I have: what controller do you use?
Would the setup you have also suit some low speed 'torquey' applications such as machine tapping?
yes it is complete DIY cnc project, I recorded full making off. check my other videos. at the moment I'm using gecko 540 but i think it could change soon. ( i need more outputs) this spindle is not for low speed(it doesn't have any torque at low speeds), when you run it at 1000rpm, it draw up to 5 Amps, at 3000rpm 3Amps, 5000rpm and above it draw around 2 Amps. i guess its related to the weight of the shaft.
i don't think tapping is possible on those spindles.
From my experience I want to stay away from tapping as far i can. taps break, sooner or later. thread milling is much nicer and cheaper option, and even if you break a thread mill, you won't ruin your part.
True. I've only recently started to make good use of CAM which will allow me to thread mill in discrete x,y,z steps as my old Fanuc doesn't allow helical interpolation - at least that should give me a few possibilities.
Where is the follow up video? I’m very excited to see it all working. And your holder. And programming
I kinda show it milling in the video after this one. since then i didn't had any free time to shoot any more videos and whatever projects I'm on currently are NDA.
Hi Just about to order one of theses, are you still happy with it. Any problems?
not at all. its running really well, Now i can't imagine using any other spindle :) i'm still discovering how much i can push it and i can push it really far. its really awesome.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki What you running in the way of a VFD? I only have single phase 220V onto the shop.
I'm using 2.2kw vfd from my previous spindle and I'm running it on a single phase 220v. You can get this spindle on 220v or 380v. you just have to mention it when you order.
Piotr Fox Wysocki I was actually going to ask you that question: if 220v is available in the 2.5kw spindle .
I only have access to 220v but I only see the 1.5kw mention 220v and the 2.5kw+ are 380v
@@radikult-custom I know its not listed on their website but when you send them an email asking for 220v they will make one. no problem really.
Does the spindle run off 240 Volt AC from the wall or is it 3 phase power?
240v
I have a Huanyang spindle similar to your old one. I hope I have better luck with mine. I wonder if someone sells a set of good quality replacement bearings, such as NTN. Congratulations on the new spindle.
I'm guessing but any branded company bearings will be better than those which are inside.
Who knows maybe you where more lucky with your spindle than i was.
I just ordered the 2.2 80mm version tonight. Looking forward to writing some atc macros for mach4. Maybe ill video my attempt.
WOW, that's AWESOME !! :) you have to make a video! or couple! I can't wait to see it.
I ordered direct from the manufacturer. Email them, the price will be better. I got mine for 1450 plus shipping.
@Sergeant Nomadic i have put all the information in the video description, shipping i think was around 130USD via TNT.
@Sergeant Nomadic I just got the preliminary stuff done last night. It runs through the routines. No error checking or anything yet but should work when I receive the spindle.
Please do
Great review, and very interesting spindle especially at that price. Two questions: Why do you have to wait 10 sec. before the spindle can turn after a tool change? Do you, or can you cut steel with this, or is 2.5 Kw too little for a good result? Btw, really like your epoxy granite CNC build.
you have to wait more or less 10 seconds, if you don't use air return(not sure why they call it like that, in my opinion it should be called a cylinder reset, or draw bar clamp) when you release tool using pressure, it fills the tool change cylinder inside the spindle to push draw bar down. draw bar has a spring which is pulling tool holder up.
when you change the tool there is still some pressure inside the cylinder which is pushing the draw bar preventing spindle from rotating.
you can speed it up by using the "air return" and this will move cylinder all way up.
i guess you could do something similar by removing pressure from the hose which is connected to tool change. i will try to explain it better in part 2.
i don't have much experience cutting steel on those spindles. but i would guess you need much slower rpm's or you just use smaller tools.
@Arnljot He used granite...granite, not epoxy granite.
Thanks for the video, really instructive. Still, one question: the "air seal" creates a constant air leakage? Is it possible to operate the spindle without? (I guess not..)
Yes. it does create constant air leakage. But it doesn't prevent spindle from turning on. I wouldn't run it without air seal on because bearings wouldn't last as long. After opening an old cheap spindle I realized that air seal is very good way of sealing bearings because I found there lots of grinded particles of all sorts mixed with rust. It looked like it was pulled from mud. Air seal is annoying but very good to have.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki thx for the answer. Is the air lubrified? Like with an FRL or just dry air?
Just dry air.
i was just wondering...how does 6.6 Amps at 220 volts equals 2.4 kilowatts?
@23:12
Maybe I missed it. Where is the power cable? How do you control the RPM.
Can you give us the link were you order it please ? Thank you.
Add a check valve and a relief to the tool pneumatic tool change, the lag in the spindle wanting to rotate is it waiting for the air to bleed off and fully clamp.
Has yours got temperature and Hal (Rev) sensor built in?
Which controller do you use with the JGL-100 spindle?
2.2kw huanyang vfd. I had this one from my previous 2.2 kw spindle. 5 or 6 years and it still going.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki thank you for your quick answer. I plan to buy a 2.2kw Delta Driver and use the 800hz 4pole version of it.
My current "spindle" only runs at 2.2k rpm ... I hope things will be much faster with that Jianken spindle.
I'm doing a lot aluminium work.
Wasn't the manual on the right side of the internal box from styrofoam? there is obviously glued transparent folder with papers, where usually invoices are? It's visible around 3:20 when You take it off the crate? @Piotr Fox Wysocki
unfortunately it wasn't there. and i looked everywhere.
Can you put a 50mm shell mill in it?
They have been in contact with me about the spindle, so good news there, What VFD are you using? That spindle is about 39 pounds correct? Do you notice any problems moving that amount of mass at the speeds you were moving? have you gotten it wired into mach 3 yet? are you going to make a tool tray for auto tool changes? sorry for so many question.
wow :) i will try to answer in order :)
spindle weight is closer to 31-33 pounds. i guess it depends if its filled with water or empty.
Im cheap and lazy so i'm using exactly same huanyang vfd i have been using on my 2.2kw ebay spindle.
and because its already connected to mach3 i can't be bothered figuring out a new vfd. once it dies, then i will have motivation :)
My biggest problem moving it is the table machine is put on. 1000mm/s is very nice and manageable. when i go 3000mm/min on intricate shapes. than it just gets scary, because direction is changed quickly and the table machine is on, swings all directions.
machine can handle it just fine. My gantry is about 50kg so extra few kg doesn't do much of a difference.
I think i have an idea for the tool changer but because i don't have much space left i have to came up with something very creative.
But i want to combine it with replacing X axis screw and rails in to something better. than my plan is to move gantry more to the back so i will recover some table space. and at the same time i will have better balance front to back.
Hello, I also have a jgl spindle from jianken, could you tell me what frequency inverter you have?
2.2kw huanyang vfd set on 400hz.
hi what is the vdf you are using for the atc spindle?
Can you do any precision work with your CNC ? you have any numbers ?
How are you using your phone to control the spindle?
Is the lock time controlled by a slow air release?
parts look sick, nothing at all wrong with that !! great even !
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hi looks like a good spindle ... would you do a video while milling steel and aluminum? I am very curious ... I would like to see his pair (strength) and how much he can remove every pass in z .... ....
im glad you are making videos again!
Hey, I have reached out to the spindle manufacturer 3 times and they have not responded. Any chance you know who I can contact to buy one of these?
i'm guessing it might be related to a chinese new year which lasts for like 2 weeks or so :)
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thanks for responding. I will give them another try in a couple of weeks.
I just picked up a 3 kW like the one you have
Can you give me your VFD settings I cannot get this thing to run.
It would be greatly appreciated thank you. Went through your settings On inverter I keep getting over current during ramp up.
its tricky for me to answer as there is a lot of different spindles and lots of settings, and i'm not an spindle expert or vfd. i can only tell what works for me. but if it could help you could go through my settings in this video ruclips.net/video/ZOdCpw7xnQA/видео.html
and try to adjust to your settings. setting number 142 for your spindle should be around 13A if you are running on 220v. and be sure to set right spindle frequency 400 or 800 and number of poles, not sure whats on yours. as a tip i wouldn't run this spindle under 3000rpm.
1st. My guess is that your surface plate is not perfectly flat. Unless you have an AA graded table it could very well be off by that amount. 2nd. How are you going to scratch a never before used spindle with a hardened tap?
I cringed too. Please, not the tap...not the tap. Aargh, the tap.
after i recorded this i realized the same thing, there must be some wear in the surface plate.
i used a blunt end of the tap and i wasn't applying any force.
Good day and thank you for great videos. I recently installed 3kw BT30 18000rpm ATC spindle and it was super quiet. After some light aluminum milling test and after wood sign letter carving with V-bit the spindle started to vibrate. Now I would like to take it apart and replace the bearings but dont know how. If you have some experience would you mind to share? Its weird that the vibration came after doing wood sign with practically no resistance when cutting. Thank you, keep up the great work and best regards.
It looks to me like you don't need to replace bearings just clean them. Wood dust got in there and is messing with bearings. Does your spindle have air seal ?? In mine I always run compressed air through the spindle to keep dust and coolant away from the bearings. 3 years and no problems.
@Piotr Fox Wysocki Hy, I didnt use air because I still havent set up ATC. Also Im not sure if my spindle has air through spindle. I got 2 pneumatic ports, one is for releasing of tool and one for tightening. I believe some spindles have more ports for keeping the dust out. 🤔 I have to find the way to disassemble the spindle and maybe the bearing are just dirty like you said... Also do you lubricate your air supply for spindle?
How do you change tools if you haven't connected air to it ?? I don't use anything to lubricate. Just dry air.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki I did connect the air to load the tool but I have 4V230C-08 valve installed between air supply and the spindle and as soon as I load the tool in the spindle and its locked the air is no longer flowing to the spindle. Both output and input valves are closed.
Nor sure how to help you with dust getting in to the spindle. Sounds strange that the dust get there so quickly. Do you have manual for it ?? Might be worth contacting manufacturer and asking for some solution.
May i know how large diameter of milling cutter this ATC spindle can clamp on?
This is a er20 which goes up to 13mm
hi,
nice video i am also planning to buy one of this ATC spindle, its possible to share me the manual of this spindle because i like to know how to connect the sensor of this spindle on my controller. i cannot find any manual on the net for this AtC spindle.
thanks a lot
Rex
Are you considering offsetting the weight of that spindle with some sort of counter balance (air cylinder, counter weight) ?
Would make life easier for everything doing Z axis rapids.
i was considering it at the beginning, but when i put that spindle on it seams to be going just fine. this stepper can move over 200kg, and my rapids are limited to 3000mm/min. I don't need to go any faster really.
Can you please give me the link to the Spindel manufacturers page....
I can’t seem to find it
It's in the video description. Click more and it will show all the content
sorry seems like I’m blind
Thanks anyways :3
Although I just got my 2.2kw air cooled spindle, I am years away from upgrading to something this good.
no worries, My goal here was to show what is out there and the difference between cheap unbalanced spindle vs a decently balanced spindle. this one was balanced to G1 , there is a higher standard G0.4. which is an absolute perfection.
Well done Piotr! Thank you for the review, Im looking for something like that to upgrade my router too and I think this brand will be a good choice :) btw, do you speak polish?
mowie po polsku i nawet jestem w stanie cos napisac jak musze :)
@@PiotrFoxWysocki No cóż, to tak jak ja po angielsku :) But I think it might be easier for others to read comments in english. May I ask you few more questions about this spindle? How much approximately one ISO collet cost? I assume you have to get around 5-10 pcs to work properly with ATC setup? Also what is the RPM range and tool diameters you are using? Im asking because Im seriously thinking about my router upgrade to ATC and Im not sure which JGL spindle will be the best for me... Now I have 2,2 kw standard watercooled spindle 24k rpm, 80 mm diameter and 8 kg weight and Im using 1-6 mm diameter mills with 0,05-0,3 depth of cut in 3-10k rpm range, mostly in titanium and steel. Z axis runs with 1,89 stepper and 1605 ballscrew. This spindle and setup works good and has enough torque for my needs. Do you think my router can handle JBL 100 spindle or should I search for something in JBL 80-85 series with 2,2 kw to get the same results like I have now but with ATC? I will really appreciate yours and others opinions about that matter, I saw that you used to work with similar steppers and spindles like mine before... Thanks!
holly smokes, this is one complicated question :) collets. actually they are tool holders and collets are inside tool holder. (i know i did mumble collets on the video:) ) i got collets from janken but they are getting them from the Parfaite in Taiwan and i paid 108usd a pop, those are really well done. but i saw some on ebay for 40usd. i guess those might not be as good. i'm not sure if i will buy cheap ones. i don't want to ruin my new spindle.
5-10 pieces :) yes i have been thinking the same way. if you run the same job over and over. sure this could be enough. but if you want to mill something else you will have to pull some tools out and change few.
i got 7 and when i sit down to fusion i realized that i'm using more than 20 tools :)
I guess its up to you to decide if your machine can handle JGL 100. if 2.2 is enough for you go with 2.2. JGL100 is much heavier and what i noticed is that at lower speeds it draws a lot of current. 1k rpm about 5A just to spin. 2k 4A and at 3K 3Amps. everything about around 2 and below.
I'm guessing that the same spindle without tool changer would draw less at lower rpm, because shaft is lighter.
maybe you could contact jianken and ask them what they recommend for those speeds. (or not they might recommend even bigger spindle :))
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thank you very much for your answers! I'm in the middle of conversation with factory and I'm waiting for their recomendation, also may I ask did you bought yours directly from factory contacting by email or some kind of platoform /shop like ebay /aliexpress? You have mentioned that customer service is really nice and as I can see its true, they are responding really quick :)
I got directly from them. But I paid via Alibaba. Using credit card. Way quicker and safer than bank transfers.
the website linked , takes me straight to a completely non english website.. any suggestions?
Translated it, i dont see this spindle on there =\
site its adobe flash ONLY i by pass. they should change site if want more sales
There is a new Parfaite site that's just HTML, but it's in Chinese with no (apparent) way to change the language. The URL is the same, but without the dot TW at the end (just dot com). The Jian-Ken site is in English (at least for anybody with EN set as their accept-language in the browser; I haven't tested other languages).
Thank you for sharing this video, we also make good quality ATC spindle motor,but we have need to do some improvement too.
Great. You give them a good review and now their price went up! ;)
That’s how it works and it would be nice if people understood this.
How much are they now? I was getting ready to contact them.
How much does it weigh? Is the weight listed on their website?
I thought i mentiined in the video. Around 15kg
@@flyingfoxcam6026 Oops! I think I heard you say it too! Thanks for replying...