ATC 2.5KW testing the spindle limits - THE BEST Chinese spindle, second review after over a year.
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Review of Jianken Chinese 2.5KW ATC spindle, testing the spindle limits, vibration test, pushing it to the limits of the spindle and vfd. This is a second review after using this spindle for over a year.
usually my videos are long so in this one I tried to be as brief as I could, so if I missed something please let me know ;)
I was looking for a reliable manufacturer of cnc spindles and it looks like i found one.
I can honestly say that after a year of using it, it is the best Chinese spindle on the market, with really good support behind.
also they provide very high quality tool holders from company in Taiwan: Parfaite www.parfaite.co...
Spindle tool holder which i got is a ISO25 taper and ER20 collet.
Spindle price was 1450usd.
spindle manufacturer website: www.jian-ken.com
contact email: jk@jian-ken.com
ceramic ballbearing manufacturer: www.coorstek.com
coorstek cool video about ball bearings: • Cerbec Balls - Amazin...
if you want to know more, very interesting research paper on ceramic bearings: ntrs.nasa.gov/....
excellent paper on spindle vibrations:
www.researchga....
Piece of aluminium i was destroying on this video was:
6061 aluminium extrusion - 44mm x 44mm x 73mm
endmill:
rebranded chinese 3 flute aluminium end mill 10 x 30 x 75 x 10
cnc machine:
home made out of granite, making off videos:
• CNC made out of granit... 
Наука
I'm not even sure how many times I've watched this video. It's so satisfying to watch.
I like how you tested everything without coolant, shows how much can be achieved by tool and spindle itself
Fox, I am happy to see you are happy with this spindle, but I have to say You inspired me to build solid granite monster but with fix gantry, the total weight with steel desk will be around 850kg, last few months I am working on getting al the parts needed for the build and in next two months it should be finished. Many thanks for your awesome videos and inspiration.
@@____________________ok Hello, I *fixed* the issue with comments hehe, it is cutting awesome, the machine is really rigid and strong, I have many pictures and videos of assembling it and cutting, I need to find some time to upload, maybe it will help someone.
@@____________________ok I used two solid granite blocks, it was a custom cut out of the stone for me.
so satisfying to watch the chips fly when you slice at those speeds like going through butter! Thanks for the inspiration:)
I bought this same spindle immediately after your first video about it, and I agree completely. It is absolutely amazing. The only thing I wish I did different if I were to do it again is buy the 110mm BT30 version instead. So much more tooling is available in the BT30 than in iso25. Literally all I can find in iso25 is er20 coldest. They do the job but I would have loved the options.
Give me a signal like you want to sell an old spindle.
Paweł Zontek it will sell with this cnc router once I build another one! But it will be a local sale
Give me a signal like you want to sell an old spindle.
Thanks for posting Piotr. I had to have a chuckle when you mentioned the discount as I bought one of these spindles about a year ago and I mentioned your channel so they gave me a US$26 discount. No big deal though but thanks for posting, it gives me confidence in my machine.
This will make HAAS cry. Very good and motivational video.
it wasn't my intention to make people cry ;) but what the hell, why not :D
Because the spindle has lasted more than a year? :P
@@wernerautomation2834 hahaha , brilliant response :)
I bought a 2.2kW water cooled spindle from this supplier after seeing your original video, I'm glad to see it is still working great and something you love after a year. I haven't finished my machine just yet (wiring it atm) but I can say that I can not measure any runout at all on my spindle (non ATC version) and it runs smoothly on a Teco VFD! (Teco L510 also sold by RS Components 174-8218 incase you're interested) I'll be happy if I can run nearly that fast on my machine.
I'm glad to hear that. I'm personally really happy with their build quality. and it just runs! :)
the rigidity of your machine is really demonstrated here, even more than the spindles ability to remove material
You could have made this video without sound. The constant smile on your face is proof enough for me. Great video and very nice machine :)
Very impressive spindle, and nice solid granit machine. Nice video with cutting demo.
WOW!! Thanks for doing this video and sharing the info. well done :)
Thank you for your test.
I'm going to get one, but bt30 version from them
Your content will help and inspire others on their home cnc projects. Great job, I need to be more thoughtful and do the same.
This has helped me, thanks
Very nice machine. The spindle looks really good and powerfull at that price point.
we often slot aluminum at 10mm deep, 10mm wide, 50ipm but only 4k rpm. You can easily go up to 100ipm and the tool would be fine.
do you have video? i really want to see it
@@PiotrFoxWysocki i'll try and record next time we do it
Пожалуйста не забывайте дублировать устные комментарии текстом на видео. А также указывать обороты шпинделя, направление фрезерования: встречное или попутное.
Очень благодарен за видео. Помогает для развития! Очень понятно и логично. Хороший контент.
I've emailed Jianken half a dozen of times from different emails, they do not respond.
hello, did you tried to machine steel with this spindle? or is suitable only for aluminium?
Awesome ! Now I only need a house and a lot of money ! Hehehe ! :D I'll build my 4th "CNC router" soon, I hope, but not at those levels ( for now ;) ). Thanks for sharing !
That amount of chips I was doing in under one hour at work with one of my two Starag Heckrerts😁 but they had each 24k spindles with roughly 80kw😁 i realy like your videos.
my output of chips increased quite dramatically to 60 l bin in a day, not an hour :) I'm glad you like to watch my struggles :D
@@PiotrFoxWysocki well I dont think you struggle, we got more guys at work which have not even close a clue what you can do. And they make parts for aero and space industry🤣 i think people like you which are interested in looking at things and are curious can go a much longer way then one which just learned it as a job and hates it every day. I built a cnc myself but not close to wjat you built, I just modifyed a bf20 to cnc altough with servos like you. I used high torque simplexmotion servos, they produce up to 720kg of force woth the ballscrews i have, and on the y axis i habe a gear ratio of 2:1 so it doubles that power, and if i mill fast i can see the frame of the mill twisting🤣🤣🤣 to a point where I feel very unconfortable😁
@@tedbear2478 well.. you don't need to know how to build an iphone in order to be able to use it. well if you do you would never buy another phone :D a bit sad that they hate their job tho.
i limited my servos to 80kg.and i still think its too much, but with 80kg if i crash it shouldn't bend ball screws, or destroy the alignment. they are 720kg just like yours. not sure why you need to use all the power? what do you mill with? a piece of a railroad track ?? :D
@@PiotrFoxWysocki i dont need the power, I bust like the acceleration liken that, but i could limit the torque that would make sense. I am about to build a millturn machine now😉 a mill spindle combined with a lathe and b axis head😁
Nice! May the patience be with you 😉
Hi,
if you apply force to the tip of the end mill, how much is the movement in reference to the table?
Thanks
Im building a cnc lathe at the moment and after that I want to build a very solid 5xis. I think this spindle might be the one.
Hi wonder if you can help, building a milling machine and wonder if the torque is sacrificed at lower speeds
Hi, question: that crazy cut you did, was a 3 flute endmill with a feed per tooth of .014mm isn't that way too low? I always thought you shouldn't go below 0.03mm in aluminium or it rubs. Anyway this video was amazing!
How a spindle like this will perform cutting steel?
nevermind i found the answer in a comment below, thanks for sharing!
Try it with way more feed
End mills are usually rated for round about 0.05mm per tooth (depending on size and material) often more.
If i heard it correct you used 24k rpm and 1000mm/ mim which results in around 0.014 mm per tooth
If it isnt the chinesiest of sellers they normally provide speed and feed data
Endmills wont break that fast😁
About the 8mm cut, that one should be within spec of the spindle around 10.5 A at 230V (i guess) equals to about 2.4kW...
Appart from that nice video👌
Hey Fox, great video but just in case you want to have the GoPro footage in focus, consider getting a cheap diopter. Or, if you only ever use it for close up stuff, you can unscrew the lens a tiny bit. You will gain close focus but infinity will be out of focus.
after i saw blurry footage of this 8mm cut i went and modify the go pro so it can focus closer. all the other closeup cuts are in focus, right?
Just shows if you get the basics right, i.e. rigidity then you have good cutting conditions 👍👍
Do you have your vid settings available , with the settings wafer gave me my 3.2kw version of this spindle stalls out at 12000 rpm with a 0.5mm woc and 5mm doc on a 12mm 3f endmill.
Check in my videos. There should be one about vfd.
That man knows what he has been talking about!
really nice guy, and helped me alot to choose a good spindle. Have left an abo!
Nice spindle! I have a project of my own which would mostly involve drilling. Does it have enough low end torque (around 2500rpm) to drill 6 to 8mm holes into 6063 aluminum?
does not like drilling.. its "made" for side cuts
Sorry if you already answered this in a comment somewhere but...do you power your whole CNC off of the 230V 10A wall sockets or do you have more beefy line supplies? Does the spindle ever trip a breaker if you indeed have it on a 230V wall socket? Oh, also, how many other spindles did you try or research to decide this was "the best"? It seems like there are zillions of suppliers out there and it's almost impossible to make an objective comparison.
yes i power my cnc out of 240v, on 10A wall sockets but i have 20A breaker. i havent changed anything it was like this when i got the house. For example washing machine is 2.0kw and drying machine is 2.2kw. and if you want to run them at the same time you need more than 10A breaker. nothing burnt down yet(8years so far) :)
about spindles, this one will be my forth spindle. and i have seen plenty more up close. Jianken spindles build quality is remarkable. they work amazingly well.
and as you mention, there is zillions of suppliers out there, finding one which is really good is really tricky. so when i finally found one i had to share.
i know how frustrated it was for me trying to find a decent supplier.
Is it the best spindle out there? definitely the best i'v seen so far.
I did not haste with this statement. in comparison to most of RUclips hasty reviews i used mine for over a year, so i could give the most informed opinion.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki oh, that's lucky to have 20A breaker. I'm struggling with a 10A fuse. The Jianken spindle does actually seem to be not a bad deal as I see comparable ones from EU suppliers are much more expensive with similar features. Thanks for reviewing it. The quietness is very attractive. ...somewhat related: I wonder if the increase in noise vs. rpm's in your spindle new vs. after one year of use that you showed being tested has any relation to the most used rpm speeds you used during the year....like maybe the rpm's that were most often used got the most worn out? Or maybe it's simple where some internal resonant vibrations lie and after a year of use those vibrations wore away at their boundaries.
@@perspectivex noise might be misleading, i have moved vfd in to slightly noisier spot, and audio might be not so accurate either, different workshop layout. what is most accurate are the vibration readings.
I can't say that the spindle get louder after a year. because it is a very subjective and my judgement from year ago might not be accurate. app is :)
speed vs use.
i use 9000rpm for drilling. vibrations in this range went way down.
18000rpm for most milling. no difference there
20000rpm for small bits and chamfer.
this spindle is very well balanced but there is always some imperfections which cause bigger or smaller resonant vibrations at various speeds.
ceramic ball bearings need time to stabilize. this could be also a factor.
long story short. there is a lot of science behind it. I'm not particularly interested in knowing exactly what and where, since its not me who is making those spindles :)
I'm happy i was able to find a very good manufacturer
back to breaker. why you just wont replace it with 20A? or 15A or just something more than 10A. anyway i think you could mill with 10A breaker, just don't go crazy on the cuts. when I"m milling, I'm trying to stay under 5A most of the time. it might be 2.5kw spindle but it doesn't mean it has to be use at the limit all the time.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Rented apartment and unlikely I can make any change. Re: the ceramic bearings...the "research paper on ceramic bearings" link to nasa.gov you put in the description gives a "Page Not Found." Thanks for the informative replies. I might have also missed it...but which VFD did you choose for the spindle? That's another jungle to hack through. I got a cheapo Chinese VFD for an old 3-phase wood planer and it seems to be working fine...not sure if cheap vs. expensive has much influence on a high-end cnc spindle though.
the links in the description seem a bit broken
Very nice setup. I was impressed by the lack of chatter on the 10mm x8mm cut. Your machine is more rigid than mine, or is it the spindle? If you haven't already, check out making an air mister with a pressurized house water filter to hold the coolant. Works wonders compared to dry cutting, is cheap, and not messy like full coolant.
no chatter is mostly because of the machine.
but I want to thank you for the idea for the new video, messy coolants :)
@@PiotrFoxWysocki now I see your "curtain coolant" and I think the air blast I reccomend would only help for cutting steel with coatings that work well with heat like altin.
Can I ask what is there performance like with lower rpm? Have you tried slowing the spindle down to 5-8k rpms for steel or larger end mills? How is the power at that speed? Thanks!
It’s um... spectacular!
I can refurbish that Spindle that you said is un-repairable :) @ GTI Spindle Technologies in North Carolina
i was talking about the spindle you saw on the video. i thought i kill it, but turns out it was fine :)
Charles, have you had any hands on with any of these Chinese spindles you see everywhere now? What are your thoughts? The prospective of a spindle specialist would be interesting!
I'm going to take a guess that your repair bill will be 2-3 times the cost of a new jianken spindle. :)
Daniel Sharp yes I have refurbished many Chinese Spindles. The main issue that I find is that the bearings are cheaply made and that they are assembled without any quality control. Every one that I have had the privilege to repair the spacers and shoulders have high spots and this is a major cause of bearing failure. If these Chinese Spindles are refurbished with quality bearings and if the technician has attention to detail these Spindles will last a very long time
werner automation you would be surprised at our price for refurbishment. Most of our customers repairs are half the price of a new Spindle.
Your machine is a beast
Hello, I also have a jgl spindle from jianken, could you tell me what frequency inverter you have?
2.2kw vfd huanyang. Look it up
Hi piotr, thanks for sharing. I would like to know if you always had a fast responce from wafer ? I ordered my spindle 2 weeks ago and haven't got any news in spite of my email. Maybe they are in holiday
It's random with them. Keep sending emails. And maybe check chinese holidays. You never know
Thanks for review, I'm preparing valves to setup mine fi 80mm, 2,2 kw, 24k JianKen which I've received last week. I have only one concern - there is no "air output" only "air inlet", so I guess I will have to use only that one hole for changing tools. Do you still have that issue that you have to wait few seconds to be able to turn the spindle? It was blocked for quite a while after ATC on your first video 😊
just use the same 3 way solenoid valve i have. i hope you have noticed it on this video. when you press the button air goes to tool spindle. when you realise it remaining pressure in the line and spindle is blown by the third hole in that solenoid valve.
mine is electric one but i keep using it without connecting to anything. just by pressing mechanical red button on it.
spindle is realised immediately. so no more problems.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki thanks for the answer, I've already ordered 3 way mechanical valve with a button so I hope it'll work 😊
Hi, nice project your whole machine, also nice spindle.
how much RPM did you use for testing those cuts?
Hello from Russia, Piotr! When will you make the ATC? It would be interesting! )
About your relays, maybe you know this already, there are some SSR (Solid State Relay) which I believe are more reliable than the electro-mechanical ones. I think you should be able to find them in various types such as AC-AC, DC-AC, DC-DC...
Any reason you went with the 2 pole vs the 4 pole spindle?
there is always a reason, they had this spindle as 2 pole. so i got 2 pole :)
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thanks for the quick reply. They have a 2 pole and 4 pole version of the 3.2kw spindle. Would you have gone with the 4 pole if it were an option for the added torque?
@@Peace11uehman i'm not sure what are the benefits. maybe someone else could voice his opinion.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki They sent over a chart with the following info: The 2 pole has a frequency range from 6000rpm (100HZ) - 24000rpm (400HZ). The 4 pole 3000rpm (100HZ) - 24000rpm (800HZ). So basically the 4 pole will allow for a lower minimum RPM which could be beneficial for milling metals.
@@Peace11uehman thank you for the explanation, I guess you answered your question :) if i could add something, spindle will turn with 100 rpm. no matter what. but power consumption of just spinning is higher than actual cutting at 20000rpm.
THanks a lot for sharing this. Really appreceated. The one question remains: which alloy is this?
this was 6061 aluminium extrusion 44mm x 44mm x 70mm
Holy fucking shit i felt the spindle gona pop up and blow everything . That is spindle is good for drilling mars
Pretty good spindle and really nice machine. Just love that nice noise when you run it and the good surface finish.
Nice video and review want to buy that spindle what vfd you are using sir?
80% tool width for woc is ridiculous. Would love to see some of the things you have made with your mill. I am sure the granite construction helps significantly when doing these hard cuts.
8:36 The surface finish in slow mo!! WTF? Unreal.
yeah! i have been watching it over and over and i couldnt believe how well it actually looks. and it didn't welded aluminium around the end mill. and it was without coolant!?
@@PiotrFoxWysocki You've made a brilliant machine, no question. Well done. I will be contacting the spindle company this week, mentioning your name.
Awesome! Which VFD do you use for the 800 Hz and with vector control or without? Kind regards from Germany ;-)
I'm using this one Huanyang VFD 2.2KW.
link to the video: ruclips.net/video/ZOdCpw7xnQA/видео.html
Piotr what VFD are you using with this spindle?
2.2kw regular Chinese VFD, Huanyang. a bit undersized but looks like its holding quite well :)
@@PiotrFoxWysocki thank you sir it's great to know that I wont need to spend another $1k to run this monster! keep up a good work!
Great video! What RPM are you running this on?
Now do a review on an expensive video camera, please.
Are you trying to say that current video quality is shite?? ;)
@@PiotrFoxWysocki feels blurry. the footage seems to have been enlarged. the frame rate is okay though. wonder whether the camera is also from my country.
Hello, how mutch rpm use?
Hi Peter, Can you tell me what inverter you use with the spindle, please?
Huanyang VFD 2.2KW
@@PiotrFoxWysocki That was quick :) Thanks. I've been in touch with Jianken enquiring about the spindle motor. The suggestion is I go for the 3.2kW. He said to get a VFD at least that. So I'm googling :)
i think ebay should be just fine.
Thanks so much, great resource for others building their own cnc. Do you have any insight as to how this compares to the Italian HSD ATC that are also popular with high end Chinese machines?
sorry, i haven't had any experience with Italian spindles. so i can't give you any advice on that.
I spent (a lot) extra to get a PDS Colombo spindle and I regret it. It cuts well but not noticeably better than the one in this video. I'll use the money to get a Chinese ATC spindle next time. The machine rigidity and spindle trimming is more important for cut quality. That and using decent end mills.
Hi Piotr, first of all thanks for all your videos!. I've been binge watching all of them for the past few days. :) Currently busy with putting together my first CNC router, and after this video I'm convinced that it will need the Jian-ken spindle!. What was the delivery time when you ordered yours?.
2 weeks for them to make it and 1.5 weeks to ship it. or something around those numbers
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thanks, just send them a quote request!.
where you buy chinese endmills ? any good supplier ?
i have local supplier here in New Zealand, I don't buy them from China directly
Awesome spindle but with the current tariffs on China, be cautious when you order by Fedex. Got my Jianken spindle and about two weeks later got an import bill from Fedex for just shy of $700 to cover import tariffs. This is on top of the $200 to ship it in the first place... Wow!
$700? How much did you pay for your spindle? I thought tariffs topped at %25?.
Could be stupid question but do I need servo motor or dc motor with belt to use this spindle
silver and black cylinder is the whole spindle. you just need vfd (speed controller for it) that's all
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Great, so this reduce price a bit.I will ask vendor however I am wondering if this spindle can be used in horizontal way like in HMC
@@piotrszczesny7595 sen then an email. im sure they have one which will do it. the biggest i have seen they have was 130 kg spindle. so they do serious stuff ;)
Thanks for a fantastic video. Could you please share som info about the iso 25 toolholders. The collet nut looks special
Can you tell us what frequency VFD are you using? thanks.
400
Taking notes 📝
Tell me smth. Did you really set up your spindle to 24k rpm's and 1000 mm/min ? :D
1k.2k.3k. so?
What app did you use to measure vibrations ?
vibrometer
Beautiful! Very interesting to see these empirical tests. I would be curious what the current draw would be with a fresh endmill. Kennametal's engineering calculator suggests an approximate radial force of only 100N with a torque of only 0.5 Nm in the 4mm stepover, 10mm depth, 3000 mm/min feed test, with a power draw of 1360 watts. In the test we see a peak current of about 9A (at 220V?), about 2000 watts. At least in theory there should be quite a lot of headroom (you are probably right that the VFD and the tool are the limiting elements), especially if you find a zirconium nitride coated tool, but for what you are doing I doubt you would really want chips piling up that fast :). I've seen youtube videos of similar tools with upwards of 20000 watts (not a typo) put through them. So, perhaps a lot for this machine, but quite conservative in the big picture!
Good to see another video, amazing what is available from China and what you can build when you have a need. Looking forward to seeing more from you!
maybe 2000 watts vs 1360 watts difference is because o system efficiency. or its just for a cut. free spinning spindle takes 1.8-1.9A maximum power on a cut was 8.9A so it comes closer to 1500watts. the difference just for the cut. i guess there is lots of factors when you try to calculate it on the paper.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki for sure, I was mostly trying to get a frame of reference. What's most interesting to me is how little torque and force, at least in theory, is generated in such a cut. The high RPM really brings those down.
It appears that the currents shown are for the motor currents provided by the VFD (right Piotr?). If that's the case, motor power input power = motor voltage * current * 1.7321 (since it's a 3 phase motor.) Cutting power is proportional to material removal rate as well as spindle speed and torque, so higher speeds are preferable - especially for aluminum.
@@gmack4097 im not big fan of math theories. as long it works, im happy ;)
Isn't that 1360W Kennametal's "Ps at the cutter" rather than "Pm at the motor" - which measured (8.9 - 1.8)A * 220W * 1.73 (for 3 phase motor) = 2702W?
Hi Fox love your work what VFD are you using for this spindle
2.2kw huanyang
Hi
Good review but unfortunate;y the www.parfaite.com link does not work for me, do you have another link that does not use Adobe flash player please.
I tried to look at the site but the only thing is a login line and password.?
where to from there ?
Parfaite is not the spindle manufacturer, but the manufacturer of tool holders. Spindle is : www.jian-ken.com
seria muy muy interesante si nos contaras como funciona el sistema neumatico para el cambio de herramienta
Cost?
Piotr: If I remember correctly, you mentioned in your first review that you were going to try using inexpensive toolholders/collets. Did that work out for you, or did you find it necessary to upgrade? Also, your spindle's stated rated current is 6.6 Amps, yet it seems to be working fine at up to 10 Amps! Did you receive any performance and/or setup information for it from the manufacturer?
It wasn't working "fine" at 10 amps. it was bogging down. Any spindle can go over its continuous rating for short amounts of time. Mostly what that accidental overload test shows is that the rated numbers are truly the "continuous rated" numbers. Sometimes the number they put is the max current, and not the continuous (like they do on your bosch or Makita router for example).
@@wernerautomation2834 OOPs - I guess it was actually 8.9 Amps rather than 10 Amps. So, spindle power input is 8.9A * 220V * 1.73 = 3391 Watts. At 60% efficiency, that's 2035 Watts output. Power ratings for HF Spindles (and most motors), unlike routers, should be continuous output power rather than input power. If properly rated, Piotr's "2500 Watt" spindle should not have been bogging down, and IMO, doesn't appear to have been. Why do you think it was?
However, the spindle is supposedly rated 2500 Watts @ 6.6 Amps and 220 Volts. So, the rated input power input is 6.6A * 220V * 1.73 = 2512 Watts. At 60% efficiency, that's 1500 Watts output. Maybe it's rated based on input power, like routers? That's why I asked about performance curves (speed vs torque) which unlike other Chinese manufacturers, Jianken advertises.
@@gmack4097that spindle has 0.89nm torque at 24000rpm for 2.24kw output power (and 2.5kw input assumably). They do not provide a duty cycle, so we can only assume this is both continuous and truthful before testing. The bogging, it is quite audible, with every cut having a continuous tone except those 8+ amp heavy ones. The drop in tone mean the spindle is slowing to a point on its curve where it has more torque available. Because we know this is a flat torque output spindle, we can assume it is operating above it's continuous rating of 0.89nm in that cut. A quick check of the sandvik calculator says the 10mmx4mmx3m/m cut with a sharp 3 flute needs 1.31nm - well above the continuous rating and completely consistent with the 9A draw vs the 6.6a continuous rating.
@@wernerautomation2834 You have performance data for that "2500 Watt" spindle? Can you share it?
@@gmack4097 its on the jianken website page for that spindle.
Iam curious and wonder how well this spindle has held up. I am about ready to hit the buy button but thought I would ask first
It's still going. No problems
@@PiotrFoxWysocki I chickened out and bout a lower end Spindle but still have the JGL on my wish list. I ended up buying a 3.5kw "Metal working" kit from G-Penny. I am just getting started and have my machine ready for spindle. Hopefully I didn't waste my money :-)
BTW -I very much appreciate your efforts to teach us all how to build out a truly awesome machine.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki One last question. Could you share what VFD you are using? Is a vector type?
I'm using common 2.2kw huanyang vfd.
Piotr once again thank you for the spindle recommendation. I just uploaded a video about my pneumatic linear tool rack fully operational on my router with the JGL-80, I think you definitely should design one for your machine. I can assist with the design and macro programming. Also can you suggest any inexpensive iso20 toolholders and er16 collets? I think $100 for the parfaite tool holders is too much, I have been using cheaper $20 holders for my larger diameter cutters with no issues.
nice work! curently i have 14 tool holders and i need 14 more. so making a tool holder for something like this would have to be huge. i know i could switch tools in holders when i need them but this is more work and a lot of room for mistake. when i will need tool changer i think it will be the time when i will get a proper machine
... or two pneumatic racks on two floors or two revolvers. I`m not joking.
I made 21 tools in a two-storey rack.
@@ivandoychev8841 Yeah lots of options, I'm thinking a 2 row horizontal rack where the first row is always accessible and the 2nd row is accessible with a piston pushing out the rack.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki I sorta have the same issue. my machine is 300mm travel, so getting many tools in a tray format doesn't work. The best (simple) idea ive seen so far is a round carousel with a pie slice cut from it. The pie slice means the carousel it out of the work area in its 'stowed" position, and you get tools all around the other side - in my case 12 or so. past that you start needing a separate automated machine that can stage the one tool you need from a 3d rack of many tools. Easily done with an Arduino, but less easy to have the control coordinate with it as it needs to know both the tool you have, the tool you want, and the tool you want next that to be efficient.
Where did you buy the endmill
carbidenz
Simply connect a second relay to your 24v relay from the VFD. you can get relay boards for less than 1 $ from China.
could you make a video explaining your more about what is necessary to run such an amazing spindle: like air quality/ amount. Why did you choose the 100mm version and not the 80mm? What is the approximate price of the spindle
i would recommend to take look at the review part 1; ruclips.net/video/pWNeW-lH9RA/видео.html more details are in the video description.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki I know your video from a year ago. but my question still remains did you have any reason for choosing the 100mm version instead of the 80mm version? The sk25 are less common the spindle is heavier...
@@GuyFawkes911 i just wanted the biggest spindle i could put in to my machine. i was thinking about bt30 but it was too tall, and more expensive. and since this was unknown manufacturer i didn't wanted to risk too much.
Now I need an ATC, too! Have you tested boring holes? What is the torque?
Boring or drilling?
@@PiotrFoxWysocki My bad english: for sure i meant drilling!
Well.. 8mm drill in my opinion will me the max. I found 9000rpm and plunge speed 150mm/min. Pecking. Trying to avoid long stringy chips. Anything bigger you mill/bore
@@PiotrFoxWysocki thank you
Did you check that your spindle was really running at 24,000 RPM? Your setup video for the VFD (4 pole configured for a 2 pole motor) suggests that it might be running at 12,000 RPM.
this is a quote from the email i have exchanged with them over a year ago "
Yes, this one can also operate on 220V. And the frequency has two options, one is 800HZ(4 poles), the other is 400HZ(2 poles)." i believe i have it set to 400 and 2 poles. when i was setting it ups i did check rpm and it was correct.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Love your videos, very inspiring !! I have a question, did you buy the 400hz version or the 800hz version of this spindle? Oh, and one more question, do you believe the lack of "drive lugs" in the collet is any issue ? I am seriously considering a spindle from this company thanks to you. btw, I mentioned you in the correspondence with them.
Just talk with them, they should recommend best option for your needs.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Maybe you can even get them to provide some meaningful performance and VFD setup information so you know what you're getting and how to use it!
@@gmack4097 I tried multiple times. They promised to make a manual, but obviously they ignored my suggestions...
Pretty cool! I remember the original video, and it's nice to learn all has worked well. I've been tinkering with a servo motor this weekend, but nothing that fast (or maybe rigid?) :)
i have been tinkering with servo and closed loop steppers as well and it was this weekend too ;) not for cnc tho.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki i dont think its worth it to get closed loop stepper better just get servo
Please just call it a Taiwanese spindle. You're just causing confusion. Yes, Taiwan is the R.O.C, but nobody calls it this. Made in Taiwan is Made in Taiwan.
you an put your VFD to start automatically yous selenoid and then air would fill the spindle
Hey buddy i have posted various comments on how to contact u.......Could u kindly share your email or any other source of contact plzzzzz
My contact info is on my youtube channel. Email. Instagram and website.
You could also google my name. I prefer not to put my email in the comments so it wont end up some spam distribution center. Hope you will understand
what is the end mil diameter ?
10mm
That looks very promising. Ive been in contact with Wafer to get some answers and Im hanging on the purchase button :)
It all comes down the price and the amount of accesories. how did you connect the air return to get the spindle to turn freely direct after a tool change?
cheers
maybe you should go for BT30 instead of iso25. air is connected through solenoid valve and it release pressurized air as soon you let it go. so spindle can spin freely. I showed it somewhere in the video.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki why is that? isn't the iso25 holder any good? I will check your videos once more :)
@@JDesignSwe it's not because it's bad. Its because bt30 has more tools available.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki ah I see, Im not running bigger than Ø10mm endmills at the moment so I guess that iso25 will do just fine. .. I hope :)
I contacted them, If we say we come from you they offer only the water pump = 15 USD.... So I wouldn't say it's pretty big discount !!
I look at it this way. Better 15$ off than nothing. Those spindles are already cheap for what they are. Normally people charge double for similar thing and then they do 20% discoult like its a great deal. People are paying 30 % more and they are happy, because they think they got an amazing deal. For example this kind of marketing is very popular in nz.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Yes I agree with you. But when you said a big discount I was expecting a little more aha! I would have said nothing would have been the same ! But let's see ! Thanks for your videos !
nice job! :) ...Have you tried to cut stainless steel? how were the results? :)
no i haven't, but i tried harden steel and it was going just fine with mirror like finish.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki thank you, sounds promising ...I am looking forward to watching your future videos, break a leg ;)
@@PiotrFoxWysocki how you' re doing? :) may I ask you? what air compressor are you using for running this spindle?
can you do an overview of your control cabinet?
there is not too much to show but i will do it soon
Your camera was a perfect angle to eat some chips.
Awesome Spindle! can you do a similar video with steel?
maybe eventually, when i will need to do steel.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki this type of test for steel wouldn't be too interesting, especially on your machine - its going to cut basically the same as in the aluminium, just less. The real test would be to see it cut a part for an hour, in the lower rpm ranges (6-12k) to see how it copes.
@@wernerautomation2834 any idea where i would have to slow down so much? i would prefer to go fast with fast rpm, to finish part quicker. recently i did some parts where time was 1h - 1.5h at 20 000rpm. no problem.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki with steel, and larger cutters, you cant usually run as fast as 24000rpm. This is why steel is an issue with these styles of spindles, not because they don't have the power or rigidity. As you may have been told by jinaken, they don't recommend running under 12-15k rpm, so, a good test would be to see what happens. A good vector drive will run the spindle from zero hard, but the cooling may not be sufficient. Do the math to make a 1.25kw cut at 12000rpm and watch the water temperature. Then repeat at 600w and 6000rpm. Keep an eye on the temps, amps and the e stop :)
@@wernerautomation2834 i have strange feeling you are trying to sabotage my cnc ;)
another case of "Chinesiem" being quite good! It all just depends..!
Would be interesting to see how it does in steel...
one day i will make a video. I'm not very big fan of steel because it rusts, and chips are not very pleasant to handle. but from this what i cut its just like aluminium but half the feed. for steel i need end mills for steel and more tool holders.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Kinda the other way around myself..
I don't really trust the strength of cheap alu VS cheap steel, you generally need a higher and more expensive grade of alu to match the strength of some rather cheap steels(which are already much cheaper than alu).
But you are right alu is easier and more pleasant to machine( a strong magnet inside a small plastic box makes for easy cleanup of steel chips though)
Mill Tip size ?
10mm...
Piotr Fox Wysocki 🙏🏻❤️
Hey Piotr! Nice Video! I have the same spindle. Thank you for your review. I have added you on facebook. Let´s talk a bit about machining! :)
best regards, Patrick
Grüße Patrick! Welchen FU verwendest du für deine JGL?
@@felixrei3578 Omron MX2
you should try cryo treating your cheep endmills. Basically, you chill them in liquid nitrogen for a few hours. This extends the hardening process from heat treatment, you do not have to heat the bit either. Just ambient to cryogenic temp and then let normalize. The hardness goe's up, and tool life and tool sharpness life goes up.
Heres a vid explaining it better, and testing it - demonstrating the process. Its fair cheap and easy todo. Liquid nitrogen is very cheap to buy from welding supply stores and farmers' equipment stores.
ruclips.net/video/hAxi5YXTjEk/видео.html
здорово! 10мм!!!!
Son, do your tests on steel. Then you proof something. Aluminium is much softer than steel. If your motor (and end mill) performs well on steel, it will most certainly perform well on aluminium. I watched a few of your videos and liked it. I'm busy with a CNC milling machine with a two meter long bed and will most certainly look at things you mention in your videos.
Chips and chips and and and chips