Last comment, Tyrion is pragmatic I think he'll come to his senses and align with Dany as long as needed. She has dragons. Oh and the Starks have been their own worst enemy. Anytime they have been wisely, instinctively, or magically advised they more often then not disregard the guidance to their own detriment
I haven’t even watched it but I was about to start deep cleaning and decluttering my room and was dreading even beginning! This is exactly what I needed to give me strength! 🙌🏻
Tyrion is what Tywin tried to hide from the world. Tywin believed in a complete strong outward appearance without the care of "feelings". Right and wrong were of no consequence to him, only in results, and how the Lannister name is held with fear/respect. Tyrion is the result of a twisted and toxic "home". The physical appearance of Tyrion was symbolic of the vanity of the nobility in appearances being everything, win tourneys, kill in battle. We can see this with Tywin and Jaimie's armor being gilded. It's only surface deep in their outward worth, when Tyrion having spent years reading and whoring, is a man capable of both cruelty and kindness, which makes him so much more dynamic and well rounded. Tyrion is Tywin's son because he is the embodiment of the traumas that Tywin himself didn't understand and projected after his experiences with his father, and losing his wife. Tyrion IS a punishment to Tywin but only because he couldn't get over his own bias and insecurities, and his attitude lead to the corruption of Cersei, and the fall of both of his sons' honor.
@@robbypodobinski824 there are so many clues. Jaime's dream, Tywin's sister telling Jaime Tyrion is more like Tywin than him. And the fact that Jaime and Cersie's first born is worse than mad king at his age. It can explain why if he is the result of generations of incest between Targaryens inested of just a one time affair between two Lannister siblings.
I mean he's already pretty cruel. He Had a singer killed and baked into pies, had an old man thrown in the black cells, poisoned his sister (with diarrhea) gave the Antlermen to Joffrey for him to punish (and he knows what a vicious cunt he is) murdered his father after he lost a trial by combat and strangled his ex gf. And he raped that slave girl as she was crying under him. Yes he had his own reasons and justifications for each decision but these things are unmistakably cruel.
He's already embraced being the twisted monkey demon, he raped Illyrio's servant girl, I think he's going to manipulate Dany to get revenge on his siblings and the citizens of King's Landing. Whether or not Dany realizes what he's done or not will determine whether or not he survives. Dany making him her hand seems too far fetched even with him killing his father and taking credit for killing Joffery. He most likely is going to one of her advisors, and their alliance will be a shaky one at best. Dany isn't stupid and when he shows up she's going to remember Quaith's warning about not trusting the lion.
Come on people, it's almost 10 years since dance with dragons. Does anyone really thinks George is going to release another book in the ASOIAF series? Move on people.
I think tyrion just had dreams of grandure dragons can make even the smallest man a king. Additionally i think Benjin just looks down on everyone from the south they dont know the true north beyond the wall
The Stark kids are naive, not just because they were sheltered in a castle, but also because they were in the North. People living in castles in the South understand understand ideals, such as honor and grace are not truly expected in real life.
The biggest indictment against Tyrion being a Targaryen for me: In Moqorro's dragon vision, Tyrion appears as a man, not one of the dragons. Were he a Targaryen, he should've been depicted as such there as opposed to appearing separately. We might not know who the dragons are in the vision, but we know who's not one.
Benjin wasn’t here for any Lannister bs and assumed Tyrion was trivializing the Night Watch. Most of the realm doesn’t respect the Night’s Watch anymore so I understand why Benjin is being so defensive. That said, the Starks def aren’t perfect or immune to nobleman snobbery.
You go into it... so I'll comment. Tyrian finally knows that he was betrayed by Jaime and his father... with the whole Tysha thing. It's going to take him a while to get over that, but he's given up on seeking the approval of his family... and instead he's looking for approval from the dragon queen... the Targaryens. He may then discover that he is at least equally Targaryen (wasn't his mom a Lannister cousin to Tywin?)... so while he may have some Lannister attributes from his mom... much like Tywin... he also has Targaryen attributes. And this sort of fits... Ned was a Stark northerner tempered by the Arynn Vale... John is Targaryen born tempered by the Stark north... GRRM's characters are often encompassing a duality like this. So I'm behind the secret Targaryen theory... his two different colored eyes and his white blonde hair... and the fact that Tywin is CONVINCED that Tyrian isn't his and nearly destroyed by the fact he can't prove it.
Perhaps Aenor had some Targaryen dragon skulls brought with him to Dragonstone (or perhaps there were already skulls at Dragonstone, considering it was a trading outpost of the Empire, and it could either be a long-dead, ridden dragon, or a wild dragon residing there, as the Cannibal and other wild dragons did) and then brought to Kings Landing by another Targaryen. There very well *could* be three thousand-year old dragon skulls, though who knows. Author error ain't impossible, though a skull that is 3000-years old isn't impossible, either 🤷🏼♀️
Personally, I like the N+A=J theory better. Jon is Ned’s. Aegon is the tower of joy baby and Jon’s cousin. His name isn’t really Aegon, but they named him that so he had a better backstory and claim (also would explain why Rhaegar had 2 sons named Aegon in the show). Lemoore is Ashara Dayne. Ned and Ashara were married BEFORE he married Catelyn, and Jon is older than Rob. Technically, Jon is Ned’s only true born child, meaning ALL of the Stark kids are really bastards. Jon has Dayne blood, becomes the next Sword of the Morning and the last hero. Dany is the “Princess who was promised”. Tyrion is a chimera, and has DNA from Tywin AND Aerys (shout out to Gray’s awesome DNA theory), makes a special saddle like the one he designed for Bran, rides a dragon. Dany, Tyrion, and fAegon are the 3 heads. I can’t discount all of the evidence for RLJ, but at this point, that is kind of predictable. In the end, I want whatever story GRRM is writing. It will be magnificent either way, I just think this has more late game plot twists involved.
Tyrion knowing about dragons serves a purpose for the plot, just like that girl in Dorne knowing about dragons does. Tyrion actually being a Targaryen does not. However, it's pretty clear that Jaime and Cersei are Targaryen dragonseeds. Tyrion also seems to know about Jon's ancestry, maybe through Jaime.
@@jito7377 you need to read The World of Ice and Fire and Fire and Blood. TWOIAF explains the strange relationship between Aerys II and the Lannister family, specifically, that he gifted them their weight in gold, and FaB explains that this was the traditional Targaryen gift for their bastard children.
Sleekoduck He did that because he was jealouse, bitter and wanted to be disrespectful. His wife was having a hard time with her pregnancies and then Tywin had these two healthy beautiful children. It would be a bad creative decision to make Cersei and Jaime Targaryens, it cheapens the story and the signifigance of being “blood of the dragon”
Great podcast Gray and your guest was amazing. Have you done a video on Benjin Stark? The Order of The Green Hand did one on him awhile ago and it was eye opening. I have read all the books but I appreciate what you and other content creators are doing bringing attention to things we overlooked. Cheers ❤️🌹
Thanks for the JUICE!!! I agree with you..Tyrion is so much like Tywin it's not even funny!! He's Machiavellian and observant..like a lion as it hunts...and he studies the histories to learn...just like a good general. His siblings are more Targaryian I think. And that's why his father resents him. The Dragon knowledge will be useful for his future role..as the ✋ of one of the dragons..and maybe dragons existed long before the history was written...
I think that Tyrion is the only true Lannister. That would be a greater blow to Tywin because his defective seed only produced a dwarf. Cersi and Jamie behave like Targs. It would also be a great twist for Cersi and Dany to have to deal with being half sisters.
If Tyrion is the valonqar, it wouldn't mean Cersei's hate for him is justified because Tyrion's hatred of her stems from her treatment of him because she thinks he's the valonqar. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. It would be a pretty good un-twist too. But if Tyrion does kill Cersei, and this chapter foreshadows it, what does it mean that Jon also looked into the flame at the end of it? Regarding Tyrion's future relationship with the Starks, Tyrion doesn't know that Littlefinger and Olenna killed Joffrey, from his perspective, Sansa set him up to take the blame for Joffrey's murder. I don't know if he'll necessarily take that out on the other Starks or if he won't eventually find out who killed Joffrey, but it's something to keep in mind.
Just because Tywin is so full of pride & bravado it would be very fitting if his only progeny is a ugly malformed dwarf! Having written that, Tyrion is one of my favorite characters but he is turning darker by each successive book
Yeah, I think I was watching one of Preston's videos last night and it was about the Tyrion-Targaryen theory, and he basically said that Tyrion's appearance is to demonstrate how ugly the Lannisters are as a house/people.
Madeline Sartori I guess having a Machiavellian father doesn’t help form warm compassionate sibling relationships. I enjoy Preston’s theories especially when it comes to the deeper Dorne & daggers for Jon!
Old Rohanne brought the good books with her when Bloodraven sent her North. And even if Aegon is a Blackfyre he could still ride a dragon. Daemon was more Targ than Daeron.
2 minutes in and I gotta stop. Imma safe this for tomorrow. Doing chores is a lot easier with these two talking the background. So chill and conversational
Teora Toland who is definitely not Targaryian or even in Valerian in descent, but she has dragon dreams all the same pretty much confirming you do not need the blood of the dragon to have dragon dreams.
I have always thought that premonition are always used to show how our decisions make the premonition happen. By Cersi hating and been paranoid that the little brother is Tyron almost make it certain that Tyron will. She makes it true...
Tyrion being a bastard-Targaryen makes no sense thematically and logically.......... He is Tywin's son...... George made a point of it so....... There's more of a chance of Jaime and Cersei being Targs........ Can we get a Robert Vs Rhaegar (Targaryen-Baratheon-Durrandon) history video lady grey?
I agree. I believe Tyrion is Tywin' s son also, even Tywins sister says so to Jaime and tells Jaime that he isn't which makes me wonder if Jaime and Cersei are Aerys's Bastard children. Cersei acts like Aerys to me.
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 If it were the case that Jaime and Cersei were Aerys's then the Targs were just off the throne when Bob was sitting it.. lol.......... The rebels (Bob,Ned,Jon) must be rolling in their graves...LMAO
The twins being Aerys would be much more thematically inline with our story. Both Jaime and Tyrion killing their own father's would be much more poetic, plus if Jaime learns of it he would be waking dragons from stone.
I think it's hypocrisy. Like the Starks are supposed to be these hard pragmatic men but they want to shield and shelter their kids from harm as well. Also to add tragic weight to these young people, these kids becoming child soldiers killing and dying all too early.
Love the pod cast! One comment: I don't think the wolves hate Tyrion. I think there is a difference between the wolves responding to the owners emotions vs the wolves sensing negative intentions even when the owners do not. If you look at each interaction Tyrion has with the wolves when they are angry or violent, Tyrion is either saying or doing something to make one of the OWNERS of the wolves angry or in Rob's case he thought Tyrion had ill intent because of Brandon. It was a reaction to their the children's feelings. Now with Jeyne Westerling's uncle, the Frey's or even the betrayers to Jon on the wall I those individuals were not doing anything "noticeable" to make the wolf owners aware or upset. I think the wolves could sense their ill intent even when the wolf owners could not.Those are the ones the wolf owners need to look out for. Your boy Tyrion doesn't fit that category. That's my observation.
I get why Benjen didn't like Tyrion. The readers like Tyrion because they get his POV, but Benjen just knows he's a Lannister son of Tywin (who played a pretty big part in making the Mad King). Then, Benjen sees a spoiled man (B is only 30-ishy & T is 24) with a bad reputation, who is tagging along on a trip to your incredibly grueling and dangerous workplace because he wants to sightsee.
ok but I wanna see tyrion and sansa again. this will probably come up once you get to later chapters but I need to spill my heart now. I find it interesting that tyrion is so nice to her. I mean, obviously he feels bad for her because she's a child going through so much at the hands of his family that he himself hates, but even so I don't think he's nearly as nice to any other characters. one part that sticks out to me is when sansa apologizes to him for the peas being overcooked and he eats more to make her feel better. I just thought it was cute. I was afraid he was going to start hating her when he was on trial for joffrey's murder since he seems to think sansa did it, but he never did. he hated everyone else and swore revenge, but he never seemed to have any bad feelings towards her. if anything he was like "good for her, she killed that little shit". and when he dumped out the wine cup once he realized joffrey was poisoned, I felt like he was protecting sansa because she was the obvious suspect to him. also, okay their wedding night wasn't as chaste as in the show, but still, compared to how he treats other women who don't want to have sex with him later on (illyrio's slave and other sex workers in brothels) he seemed to have more of a conscience (again this was before he snaps so maybe it's just that). so far I think the only other female character I see him being kinda like this with is penny, though he is a bit rude to her at parts. I don't really want them to have a romantic or sexual relationship because neither seem to want that, but I kinda want them to rule somewhere as a queerplatonic political power couple, though I don't think that will happen. I can dream for now.
I’ve always viewed Jon and Tyrion’s dragon dreams as them of being tired of being the underdog and wanting to be respected whereas in contrast to Daenerys, her dragons dreams, they GAVE her strength and guide her. Jon and Tyrion’s dragon dreams don’t do anything for them. More so, who says that the dragon has to have three heads? Remember we’ve been told to be cautious of prophecies and fever dreams and the history doesn’t repeat itself but rather it rhymes.
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 I just finished season two. My God, how does someone write this. It's amazing. But I don't think I can handle anymore secrets. Lol
Benjen could be jealous of Tyrion too. Benjen likes the finer things wealth and comfort. Taking advantage of Jon and getting to join the watch. Being a jerk to everyone. Possibly bouncing after he got back at his brother for having to join the watch. Seeing Tyrion being happy to see the wall must be grating him.
@Dani Stark Order of the Hand did a video on it. When he comes to south. He's dressed described as dressed nicer than even the Lord in the prolong. He then convinces a drunk kid to join the nights watch without telling his father. Knowing how bad it is , and that Jon is essentially ( I hope Jon is Ned's) Ned first son him not being there for his actual first born. Then disappears after he's at the wall. Etc. I really like the theory.
@@pskarts20 Nah Pimp he specifically tells Jon not to join. He tells him to grow up and have a few Kids, and experiences life. The wall can wait. Lewin is the own that talks to Jon. Jon even sites Lewin saying that he says that Bastards grow up faster than true borns. OotGH got it wrong. “You don’t know what you’re asking, Jon. The Night’s Watch is a sworn brotherhood. We have no families. None of us will ever father sons. Our wife is duty. Our mistress is honor.” “A bastard can have honor too,” Jon said. “I am ready to swear your oath.” “You are a boy of fourteen,” Benjen said. “Not a man, not yet. Until you have known a woman, you cannot understand what you would be giving up.” “I don’t care about that!” Jon said hotly. “You might, if you knew what it meant,” Benjen said. “If you knew what the oath would cost you, you might be less eager to pay the price, son.”
Tyrion was throwing a monkey wrench into Illyrio's plans. He was likely sour about the whole 'throwing his country into civil unrest to unseat his house from the throne and invade his country thing.' I'm not sure if Tyrion put all those pieces together but, he has enough to know not to trust the cheese-monger
I think it is very possible that Tyrion is a Targ. For Instance, Barriston tells Dany that Aerys desired Joanna Lannistor and was jealous when she wed Tywin. Tyrion is also described as having hair so blonde it was nearly white. The other Lannisters are described as having golden blonde hair. Then there are his eyes, one green and one black. Darkstar (A Dane, who are known for purple eyes) is described as having eyes such a deep purple that they look black. Maybe Tyrion's other eye is not black, but such a deep purple that it looks black? Or maybe he is part Dane, since he does have a streak of black hair? Also, Tywin tells Tyrion that "I cannot prove that you are not mine".
Also, Shiera Seastar is the only other character described as having two different eye colors and she is a Targ bastard. Plus, right before Tyrion kills his father Tywin's final words are "You are no son of mine".
Ok so maybe the Targaryens brought some skulls from Valyria that were thousands of years old? I don’t know I have to reread the books. I have no idea if Tyrion is a Targ or a Lannister for the same reasons you said but I’m fine with either way it goes. However there is more evidence for Tyrion than for Jon Snow. Also, yeah the Starks are awful company when adults and super spoiled and sheltered as kids! Even Jon Snow! I love this chapter! Long live GRRM! Edit: this does not mean I don’t believe R+L=J, because I do.
So Idk if anyone has said this yet, but I don't remember the timeline adding up to Tyrion being a Targaryen. I thought it was aligned with Cersei & Jamie. I believe that Tyrion has simply sought to identify with fantasy in order to disconnect from his actual reality in which he is the cause of his mother's death and the bane of his father's hatred, Tyrion escapes in books (I imagine he has probably also heard of the gossip as well). I believe that Tyrion simply seeks a purpose to exist. The flimsy self worth that he has is apparent when he is exiled and how he behaves beyond Westeros. Tyrion is too much like Tywin to be a Targaryen. As a mother I know that is usually more than simple influence, it's genetic
Thank you for your hard work lady Grey , but I have a ? Doesn't the Tolland girl have"Dragon" Dreams....at least 1 ,at the end of DoD the Arieene chapters , n 2 do we know if she has Targ blood ?? Humm always so much more to uncover with the rereads LoL 😅
Very well-spotted! Teora *definitely* dreams of dragons, in the same manner as Tyrion does. However, as another commenter said elsewhere on this video, dreams *of* dragons and *dragon dreams* are not the same thing. Dany's dragon dreams are full on dragon dreams, where she *is* a dragon. Tyrion and Teora (sitting in a 🌳 k-i-s-s-i-n-g....), and at least another character or two - just can't remember right now - dream *of* dragons, but not in the same way.
Tyrion said they had the same dreams. . .as per "assuming" that Jon had once or twice thought about probably "killing" people who made his life as a bastard really hard, or just basically making him feel like shit most of his life for being the bastard. Just my opinion.
Tyrion making flames and staring at them if that’s not foreshadowing what is? His dragon dreams, his constant fascination with dragons. It’s too in your face to not have merit
I love the starks not because they are perfect or even honorable. But because they are the Kings of Winter. The blood of the white walkers. A Necessary evil (:
I think being a chimera could allow him to be both Tywin's son and have Targ traits. I know it sounds like a stretch but Say Joanna was pregnant with twins one being Tywin's and the other Aerys' but Tyrion absorbed the Targ twin, taking on some of the Targaryen traits
Statement : Ladies Tyrion was talking about the dreams of the outcast child killing the beloved siblings and being the only one who remains to inherit. Not specifically dragon dreams. if any of the Lannisters are from the Mad Kings it's The Beautiful Jamie and Cercie. Tywin denies him because he hates what he sees in the mirror. Even his sister says that Tyrion Is Tywin son and not Jamie. The whole ugly truth of Tywins true reflection and what not.... Declaration : Also even if Jon is Rehgars son (dear God please no) he'd still be a bastard. Polygamy isn't recognized under the faith of the Seven and even in the current day The High Septom Crowns and annoits the king. It was that, and the issue with the death that led to Cercie reinstating the faith militant. So their views are still important. Incredulous remark: The Dragon has 3 heads, why are we taking the word of a fever dream Quaithe sent? We know that there are puppet masters out there like Bloodraven hell now that there is a Glass Candle in the mix so many people can enter into your mind and give you visions. Sorry I'm just Skeptical of the cryptic messages sent in dreams by our *magical* character. I think Tyrion calls him the Boy because even though the Westerosi see 16 as a mom grown Jon is still just a 15 yr old kid. Literally just a boy. Tyrion being brutally honest with Jon is a gift that I don't think most people realize. Jon and all the Starks are horribly naive. The Direwolves aren't always skin Changed sometimes they're just Dumb animals. I think Tyrion was trying to get rid of Young Griff because if he Duck the half- maester and JonCon are there what place does that leave for Tyrion? If he's to have any influence with Danny they gotta be gone. He's already going to have a hard time witg Victorian there. The Iron born hate the weak and crippled if JonCon and Vic were there along with Barri the Bold Tyrion would have less than nothing they might even conspire to have him killed. Yeah Post season 4 Tyrion without all the edge is sooo Bad. I love that he goes dark and is full of self loathing and hate. Winterfel didn't participate in Book Burnings sponsored by the Faith of the Seven lol
@@balerionthecat5076 under certain Targaryen Kings especially baelor the Blessed certain text were burned ( unnatural history, dragonkin Etc) because they were considered to have dangerous information Winterfell didn't do that.
I think the comment about “Tywin was big even when he was little” is just as true if you replace Tywin’s name with Tyrion’s as well, and that supports Tyrion being a true Lannister as well.
The Starks mistrust Lannisters periodt. It's house rivalry. It seems odd to you because its still early on in the world building and that first impression lingers. Compare it to the Tullys and the Freys, by the time we get to that random rivalry, you have an innate understanding of people being mistrustful ON SIGHT because of this seed in the garden.
If Tyrion is the 3rd head I would would be gobsmacked. I can't read so much anymore, my eyesight fails me and re-reading now ASOFS. Bloodraven often interfers with the wolves. But your podcast does not focus just on this chapter which I thought it would be. Chapter by Chapter?
I believe Tyrion is a Targaryen 100% but that doesn't mean he isn't a Lannister, because he was raised by Lannister's. Not to mention, Joanna herself was a Lannister as she was a first cousin to Tywin. Either way, just because Jon is a Targaryen doesn't mean he's not a Stark. Jon is the Starkiest of the Stark children besides Arya, and Tyrion is the Lannisteriest of the Lannisters of his generation. It's not a matter of nature but nurture in these regards. But yes I believe when it comes to Tyrion we'll never have a concrete answer because that's not how GRRM writes. There is no one there to tell Tyrion any of these "truths" besides possibly Bran, but even still it's more up GRRM's alley to make it ambiguous.
You’re absolutely right. Jon being a secret Targ doesn’t take away from his Stark nature and the same goes for Tyrion if he turns out to be a secret targ. 💕
I'm early for once! Love you Gray Area. I always look forward to your content 😊. I believe the third head of the dragon could be Jon and Daenerys child they eventually have together. I've seen many theories where people either think it's Tyrion or fAegon but the witch at Harrenhal told Jahaerys II that the prince that was promised will be born in their (aerys and rhaella) bloodline. Jon and Daenerys are of Aerys blood line and their child would be too.
If he even *did* go to Luwin. When he and Jon talk, he tells him he's too young and doesn't understand what he'd be giving up. Who knows. It just doesn't seem like something Benjen would have done. It's seems more of a convenience to Cat.
I don't like, that Tyrion get's so much credit for things he doesn't deserve. First he never was "Hand of the King", he was "Acting Hand of the King" on behalf of the actual hotk, Tywin Lannsister. Also he didn't won the battle of blackwater bay. Tywin won this battle. If Tywin did not come to save the day (together with Loras Tyrell) the city would've been captured by Stannis. Without Tyrion Stannis would've probably captured the city, but never the Red Keep, before Tywin would've arrived. So at most Tyrion saved a lot of lives of soldiers and saved the city from getting "half-sacked".
Think it more that the house Lannister is disliked quite a lot. I mean Cersei hostile to the North - House Stark and House Lannister are some of the grandest houses in the land with rival power bases regionally and ideology. So it be a mix of Dwarf prejudice and from being Lannister
Starks probably are opinionated because of what Tywin did. It wasn’t that long ago Tywin laid the dead Targ children at the feet of Robert. The should have been called The Dragon and The Dragon 😂
Last comment, Tyrion is pragmatic I think he'll come to his senses and align with Dany as long as needed. She has dragons. Oh and the Starks have been their own worst enemy. Anytime they have been wisely, instinctively, or magically advised they more often then not disregard the guidance to their own detriment
Tyrion is Tywin's son. Making him the secret illegimate son of Aerys and Joanna only diminishes Tyrion's story & character.
I prefer Jaime and Cersei being a Targaryen secretly rather then Tyrion
This is how I felt about Jon
Tyrion could be a genetic chimera so he could be part tywin and arys
I haven’t even watched it but I was about to start deep cleaning and decluttering my room and was dreading even beginning! This is exactly what I needed to give me strength! 🙌🏻
If Tyrion does end up killing Cercei it will absolutely be the biggest troll from George lol
Faegon is the Valonqar.
@@sleekoduck Who is his older sibling in that scenario?
Thank the Gods someone finally said what I was always aware of...The Starks are not perfect!
They sure aren't!!!
The Starks are arrogant assholes
Neither are the Targs or any other house
How about that ratty flea infested blanket they gave Tyrion as a guest gift? At least Wyman Manderly gave the Freys horses.
Yeah I think it’s been said a decent amount! Every old house has some rotten eggs!
Tyrion is what Tywin tried to hide from the world. Tywin believed in a complete strong outward appearance without the care of "feelings". Right and wrong were of no consequence to him, only in results, and how the Lannister name is held with fear/respect. Tyrion is the result of a twisted and toxic "home". The physical appearance of Tyrion was symbolic of the vanity of the nobility in appearances being everything, win tourneys, kill in battle.
We can see this with Tywin and Jaimie's armor being gilded. It's only surface deep in their outward worth, when Tyrion having spent years reading and whoring, is a man capable of both cruelty and kindness, which makes him so much more dynamic and well rounded. Tyrion is Tywin's son because he is the embodiment of the traumas that Tywin himself didn't understand and projected after his experiences with his father, and losing his wife. Tyrion IS a punishment to Tywin but only because he couldn't get over his own bias and insecurities, and his attitude lead to the corruption of Cersei, and the fall of both of his sons' honor.
The more interesting theory is that Cersie and Jamie are Targaryens and Tyrion is a Lannister
Yup. This is most likely true.
👏👏👏👏👏.
Agreed
Imagine if Tywin found this out.
@@robbypodobinski824 there are so many clues. Jaime's dream, Tywin's sister telling Jaime Tyrion is more like Tywin than him. And the fact that Jaime and Cersie's first born is worse than mad king at his age. It can explain why if he is the result of generations of incest between Targaryens inested of just a one time affair between two Lannister siblings.
Tyrion was the catalyst so the dire wolves sense it . Him being captured by catlyn caused Ned's head to roll
If Tyrion is the most Tywin-like Lannister do you think he could also become the crueler Lannister just like daddy lion?
I mean he's already pretty cruel.
He Had a singer killed and baked into pies, had an old man thrown in the black cells, poisoned his sister (with diarrhea) gave the Antlermen to Joffrey for him to punish (and he knows what a vicious cunt he is) murdered his father after he lost a trial by combat and strangled his ex gf. And he raped that slave girl as she was crying under him.
Yes he had his own reasons and justifications for each decision but these things are unmistakably cruel.
He's already embraced being the twisted monkey demon, he raped Illyrio's servant girl, I think he's going to manipulate Dany to get revenge on his siblings and the citizens of King's Landing. Whether or not Dany realizes what he's done or not will determine whether or not he survives. Dany making him her hand seems too far fetched even with him killing his father and taking credit for killing Joffery. He most likely is going to one of her advisors, and their alliance will be a shaky one at best. Dany isn't stupid and when he shows up she's going to remember Quaith's warning about not trusting the lion.
If Tyrion is a Targaryen, he's a bastard, a cripple, and a broken thing. He's one big soft spot for himself.
When he was 12 he make the bald man cry.
Thank you Grey-Area, keep them coming as we wait for Winds of Winter & House of the Dragon
Come on people, it's almost 10 years since dance with dragons. Does anyone really thinks George is going to release another book in the ASOIAF series?
Move on people.
I think tyrion just had dreams of grandure dragons can make even the smallest man a king. Additionally i think Benjin just looks down on everyone from the south they dont know the true north beyond the wall
I think Tywin believed Tyrion is a Targaryen, but I don't think he actually is. Also prophecy is a lie.
Prophesy is absolutely a lie
The Stark kids are naive, not just because they were sheltered in a castle, but also because they were in the North. People living in castles in the South understand understand ideals, such as honor and grace are not truly expected in real life.
The biggest indictment against Tyrion being a Targaryen for me: In Moqorro's dragon vision, Tyrion appears as a man, not one of the dragons. Were he a Targaryen, he should've been depicted as such there as opposed to appearing separately. We might not know who the dragons are in the vision, but we know who's not one.
Great point
Is this what they call asian persuasion?
I'm sorry. That comment was Naath'ing to write home about 😔
Thinking you might read this is giving me butterflies 😖
Oh... ⚰
Look forward to this every week! There now other youtubers starting to do chapter by chapters, but cant hold up a glass candel to you.
Amen! Gray Area stays undefeated
Benjin wasn’t here for any Lannister bs and assumed Tyrion was trivializing the Night Watch. Most of the realm doesn’t respect the Night’s Watch anymore so I understand why Benjin is being so defensive. That said, the Starks def aren’t perfect or immune to nobleman snobbery.
You go into it... so I'll comment. Tyrian finally knows that he was betrayed by Jaime and his father... with the whole Tysha thing. It's going to take him a while to get over that, but he's given up on seeking the approval of his family... and instead he's looking for approval from the dragon queen... the Targaryens. He may then discover that he is at least equally Targaryen (wasn't his mom a Lannister cousin to Tywin?)... so while he may have some Lannister attributes from his mom... much like Tywin... he also has Targaryen attributes. And this sort of fits... Ned was a Stark northerner tempered by the Arynn Vale... John is Targaryen born tempered by the Stark north... GRRM's characters are often encompassing a duality like this. So I'm behind the secret Targaryen theory... his two different colored eyes and his white blonde hair... and the fact that Tywin is CONVINCED that Tyrian isn't his and nearly destroyed by the fact he can't prove it.
Perhaps Aenor had some Targaryen dragon skulls brought with him to Dragonstone (or perhaps there were already skulls at Dragonstone, considering it was a trading outpost of the Empire, and it could either be a long-dead, ridden dragon, or a wild dragon residing there, as the Cannibal and other wild dragons did) and then brought to Kings Landing by another Targaryen. There very well *could* be three thousand-year old dragon skulls, though who knows. Author error ain't impossible, though a skull that is 3000-years old isn't impossible, either 🤷🏼♀️
Personally, I like the N+A=J theory better. Jon is Ned’s. Aegon is the tower of joy baby and Jon’s cousin. His name isn’t really Aegon, but they named him that so he had a better backstory and claim (also would explain why Rhaegar had 2 sons named Aegon in the show). Lemoore is Ashara Dayne. Ned and Ashara were married BEFORE he married Catelyn, and Jon is older than Rob. Technically, Jon is Ned’s only true born child, meaning ALL of the Stark kids are really bastards. Jon has Dayne blood, becomes the next Sword of the Morning and the last hero. Dany is the “Princess who was promised”. Tyrion is a chimera, and has DNA from Tywin AND Aerys (shout out to Gray’s awesome DNA theory), makes a special saddle like the one he designed for Bran, rides a dragon. Dany, Tyrion, and fAegon are the 3 heads. I can’t discount all of the evidence for RLJ, but at this point, that is kind of predictable. In the end, I want whatever story GRRM is writing. It will be magnificent either way, I just think this has more late game plot twists involved.
Tyrion knowing about dragons serves a purpose for the plot, just like that girl in Dorne knowing about dragons does. Tyrion actually being a Targaryen does not. However, it's pretty clear that Jaime and Cersei are Targaryen dragonseeds. Tyrion also seems to know about Jon's ancestry, maybe through Jaime.
Could you explain the Jaime and Cersei origins more?
@@jito7377 you need to read The World of Ice and Fire and Fire and Blood. TWOIAF explains the strange relationship between Aerys II and the Lannister family, specifically, that he gifted them their weight in gold, and FaB explains that this was the traditional Targaryen gift for their bastard children.
Sleekoduck He did that because he was jealouse, bitter and wanted to be disrespectful. His wife was having a hard time with her pregnancies and then Tywin had these two healthy beautiful children. It would be a bad creative decision to make Cersei and Jaime Targaryens, it cheapens the story and the signifigance of being “blood of the dragon”
Thanks sweet summer mother 😊
We Appreciate all the time, effort and research you put in to this for your children 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰😘😘😘
Great podcast Gray and your guest was amazing. Have you done a video on Benjin Stark? The Order of The Green Hand did one on him awhile ago and it was eye opening. I have read all the books but I appreciate what you and other content creators are doing bringing attention to things we overlooked. Cheers ❤️🌹
Thanks for the JUICE!!! I agree with you..Tyrion is so much like Tywin it's not even funny!! He's Machiavellian and observant..like a lion as it hunts...and he studies the histories to learn...just like a good general. His siblings are more Targaryian I think. And that's why his father resents him. The Dragon knowledge will be useful for his future role..as the ✋ of one of the dragons..and maybe dragons existed long before the history was written...
If Aegon is a Blackfyre (and I truly believe he is), he can still be the third head. A dragon is still a dragon, red or black.
Commented this before I got to where Gray said that same thing in the video 😂
I think that Tyrion is the only true Lannister. That would be a greater blow to Tywin because his defective seed only produced a dwarf.
Cersi and Jamie behave like Targs. It would also be a great twist for Cersi and Dany to have to deal with being half sisters.
If Tyrion is the valonqar, it wouldn't mean Cersei's hate for him is justified because Tyrion's hatred of her stems from her treatment of him because she thinks he's the valonqar. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. It would be a pretty good un-twist too. But if Tyrion does kill Cersei, and this chapter foreshadows it, what does it mean that Jon also looked into the flame at the end of it?
Regarding Tyrion's future relationship with the Starks, Tyrion doesn't know that Littlefinger and Olenna killed Joffrey, from his perspective, Sansa set him up to take the blame for Joffrey's murder. I don't know if he'll necessarily take that out on the other Starks or if he won't eventually find out who killed Joffrey, but it's something to keep in mind.
Just because Tywin is so full of pride & bravado it would be very fitting if his only progeny is a ugly malformed dwarf! Having written that, Tyrion is one of my favorite characters but he is turning darker by each successive book
Yeah, I think I was watching one of Preston's videos last night and it was about the Tyrion-Targaryen theory, and he basically said that Tyrion's appearance is to demonstrate how ugly the Lannisters are as a house/people.
Madeline Sartori I guess having a Machiavellian father doesn’t help form warm compassionate sibling relationships. I enjoy Preston’s theories especially when it comes to the deeper Dorne & daggers for Jon!
Neither Tyrion, not Jon have dragon dreams. Tyrion has dreams of dragons, which are very different.
Old Rohanne brought the good books with her when Bloodraven sent her North. And even if Aegon is a Blackfyre he could still ride a dragon. Daemon was more Targ than Daeron.
Tyrion is Tywin's son,Joanna said it herself. But Jaime and Sersei on the other hand
Best guest on the podcast so far
2 minutes in and I gotta stop. Imma safe this for tomorrow. Doing chores is a lot easier with these two talking the background. So chill and conversational
Teora Toland who is definitely not Targaryian or even in Valerian in descent, but she has dragon dreams all the same pretty much confirming you do not need the blood of the dragon to have dragon dreams.
You don't really need *any* type of specific blood in a universe where there are glass candles and telepathy on hand to influence your dreams 🕶
I think Faegon is Illyrio and his wife Sarah's child... I just always thought this was it
I’m confused, I don’t remember a prophetic Tyrion dream? It’s been a while since I read these, but I like Tyrion being the only true child of Tywin.
He dreams of dragons in Dance. But it’s to early to tell if it’s prophetic
I have always thought that premonition are always used to show how our decisions make the premonition happen. By Cersi hating and been paranoid that the little brother is Tyron almost make it certain that Tyron will. She makes it true...
Tyrion being a bastard-Targaryen makes no sense thematically and logically.......... He is Tywin's son...... George made a point of it so....... There's more of a chance of Jaime and Cersei being Targs........ Can we get a Robert Vs Rhaegar (Targaryen-Baratheon-Durrandon) history video lady grey?
I agree. I believe Tyrion is Tywin' s son also, even Tywins sister says so to Jaime and tells Jaime that he isn't which makes me wonder if Jaime and Cersei are Aerys's Bastard children. Cersei acts like Aerys to me.
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 If it were the case that Jaime and Cersei were Aerys's then the Targs were just off the throne when Bob was sitting it.. lol..........
The rebels (Bob,Ned,Jon) must be rolling in their graves...LMAO
The twins being Aerys would be much more thematically inline with our story. Both Jaime and Tyrion killing their own father's would be much more poetic, plus if Jaime learns of it he would be waking dragons from stone.
@@dragospinx1440 yeah they would be lol, especially Robert given how much he hated Targaryens
@@lanestapp2 I agree, I do feel like it would be poetic Jaime and Tyrion killing their fathers. It would also explain why Cersei is a Mad woman.
I really wish there was a Yoren t-shirt 'Don't think I will' I would wear that shirt everyday
Gray Lady returns
Because the Lannister kill the Targaeryen kids, and they are percieve as ambitious I understand why they don't like any Lannister
What is the comfortable life of the Stark children an analogy for? What is GRRM trying to tell us? Ned should know better than to shield his children
I think it's hypocrisy. Like the Starks are supposed to be these hard pragmatic men but they want to shield and shelter their kids from harm as well.
Also to add tragic weight to these young people, these kids becoming child soldiers killing and dying all too early.
Every time I hear that intro I get chills of excitement!!!
Yes! Everyone forgets Arya will be vastly changed as well! Edit: And YES, I was going to say, I want those books from the Winterfell library also!
Both yall killed it! I hope you bring her bacc Gray! 😁👍
Love the pod cast! One comment: I don't think the wolves hate Tyrion. I think there is a difference between the wolves responding to the owners emotions vs the wolves sensing negative intentions even when the owners do not. If you look at each interaction Tyrion has with the wolves when they are angry or violent, Tyrion is either saying or doing something to make one of the OWNERS of the wolves angry or in Rob's case he thought Tyrion had ill intent because of Brandon. It was a reaction to their the children's feelings. Now with Jeyne Westerling's uncle, the Frey's or even the betrayers to Jon on the wall I those individuals were not doing anything "noticeable" to make the wolf owners aware or upset. I think the wolves could sense their ill intent even when the wolf owners could not.Those are the ones the wolf owners need to look out for. Your boy Tyrion doesn't fit that category. That's my observation.
I get why Benjen didn't like Tyrion. The readers like Tyrion because they get his POV, but Benjen just knows he's a Lannister son of Tywin (who played a pretty big part in making the Mad King). Then, Benjen sees a spoiled man (B is only 30-ishy & T is 24) with a bad reputation, who is tagging along on a trip to your incredibly grueling and dangerous workplace because he wants to sightsee.
Another great podcast! You ladies did fantastic
I love these podcasts. Highlight of my day after work . Thank you 😊
You two make an awesome duo.
This is great.
Sweet Summer Juice!
ok but I wanna see tyrion and sansa again. this will probably come up once you get to later chapters but I need to spill my heart now. I find it interesting that tyrion is so nice to her. I mean, obviously he feels bad for her because she's a child going through so much at the hands of his family that he himself hates, but even so I don't think he's nearly as nice to any other characters. one part that sticks out to me is when sansa apologizes to him for the peas being overcooked and he eats more to make her feel better. I just thought it was cute. I was afraid he was going to start hating her when he was on trial for joffrey's murder since he seems to think sansa did it, but he never did. he hated everyone else and swore revenge, but he never seemed to have any bad feelings towards her. if anything he was like "good for her, she killed that little shit". and when he dumped out the wine cup once he realized joffrey was poisoned, I felt like he was protecting sansa because she was the obvious suspect to him. also, okay their wedding night wasn't as chaste as in the show, but still, compared to how he treats other women who don't want to have sex with him later on (illyrio's slave and other sex workers in brothels) he seemed to have more of a conscience (again this was before he snaps so maybe it's just that). so far I think the only other female character I see him being kinda like this with is penny, though he is a bit rude to her at parts. I don't really want them to have a romantic or sexual relationship because neither seem to want that, but I kinda want them to rule somewhere as a queerplatonic political power couple, though I don't think that will happen. I can dream for now.
Love your re reading chapter by chapter.
I’ve always viewed Jon and Tyrion’s dragon dreams as them of being tired of being the underdog and wanting to be respected whereas in contrast to Daenerys, her dragons dreams, they GAVE her strength and guide her. Jon and Tyrion’s dragon dreams don’t do anything for them.
More so, who says that the dragon has to have three heads? Remember we’ve been told to be cautious of prophecies and fever dreams and the history doesn’t repeat itself but rather it rhymes.
Have you watched 'Dark' because I would love to hear you review that series. It's wild!
Love that show. I'm on season 3 too and I would like to see a review on it by Gray also.
I would too, although I'm only through season one right now. I wanted Gray to do more on locke and key too.
C'mon. Gray. We love you and we know you would do this show justice.
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 I just finished season two. My God, how does someone write this. It's amazing. But I don't think I can handle anymore secrets. Lol
I couldn't get through the first episode.
Benjen could be jealous of Tyrion too. Benjen likes the finer things wealth and comfort. Taking advantage of Jon and getting to join the watch. Being a jerk to everyone. Possibly bouncing after he got back at his brother for having to join the watch. Seeing Tyrion being happy to see the wall must be grating him.
@Dani Stark Order of the Hand did a video on it. When he comes to south. He's dressed described as dressed nicer than even the Lord in the prolong. He then convinces a drunk kid to join the nights watch without telling his father. Knowing how bad it is , and that Jon is essentially ( I hope Jon is Ned's) Ned first son him not being there for his actual first born. Then disappears after he's at the wall. Etc. I really like the theory.
@@pskarts20 Nah Pimp he specifically tells Jon not to join. He tells him to grow up and have a few Kids, and experiences life. The wall can wait. Lewin is the own that talks to Jon. Jon even sites Lewin saying that he says that Bastards grow up faster than true borns. OotGH got it wrong.
“You don’t know what you’re asking, Jon. The Night’s Watch is a sworn brotherhood. We have no families. None of us will ever father sons. Our wife is duty. Our mistress is honor.”
“A bastard can have honor too,” Jon said. “I am ready to swear your oath.” “You are a boy of fourteen,” Benjen said. “Not a man, not yet. Until you have known a woman, you cannot understand what you would be giving up.”
“I don’t care about that!” Jon said hotly.
“You might, if you knew what it meant,” Benjen said. “If you knew what the oath would cost you, you might be less eager to pay the price, son.”
Tyrion was throwing a monkey wrench into Illyrio's plans. He was likely sour about the whole 'throwing his country into civil unrest to unseat his house from the throne and invade his country thing.' I'm not sure if Tyrion put all those pieces together but, he has enough to know not to trust the cheese-monger
Great video ladies. Just subscribed to Alisa's channel.
Thank you! I am truly honored! 💕
I think it is very possible that Tyrion is a Targ.
For Instance, Barriston tells Dany that Aerys desired Joanna Lannistor and was jealous when she wed Tywin.
Tyrion is also described as having hair so blonde it was nearly white. The other Lannisters are described as having golden blonde hair.
Then there are his eyes, one green and one black. Darkstar (A Dane, who are known for purple eyes) is described as having eyes such a deep purple that they look black. Maybe Tyrion's other eye is not black, but such a deep purple that it looks black?
Or maybe he is part Dane, since he does have a streak of black hair?
Also, Tywin tells Tyrion that "I cannot prove that you are not mine".
Also, Shiera Seastar is the only other character described as having two different eye colors and she is a Targ bastard. Plus, right before Tyrion kills his father Tywin's final words are "You are no son of mine".
Ok so maybe the Targaryens brought some skulls from Valyria that were thousands of years old? I don’t know I have to reread the books. I have no idea if Tyrion is a Targ or a Lannister for the same reasons you said but I’m fine with either way it goes. However there is more evidence for Tyrion than for Jon Snow. Also, yeah the Starks are awful company when adults and super spoiled and sheltered as kids! Even Jon Snow! I love this chapter! Long live GRRM!
Edit: this does not mean I don’t believe R+L=J, because I do.
So Idk if anyone has said this yet, but I don't remember the timeline adding up to Tyrion being a Targaryen. I thought it was aligned with Cersei & Jamie. I believe that Tyrion has simply sought to identify with fantasy in order to disconnect from his actual reality in which he is the cause of his mother's death and the bane of his father's hatred, Tyrion escapes in books (I imagine he has probably also heard of the gossip as well). I believe that Tyrion simply seeks a purpose to exist. The flimsy self worth that he has is apparent when he is exiled and how he behaves beyond Westeros. Tyrion is too much like Tywin to be a Targaryen. As a mother I know that is usually more than simple influence, it's genetic
Thank you for your hard work lady Grey , but I have a ? Doesn't the Tolland girl have"Dragon" Dreams....at least 1 ,at the end of DoD the Arieene chapters , n 2 do we know if she has Targ blood ?? Humm always so much more to uncover with the rereads LoL 😅
Very well-spotted! Teora *definitely* dreams of dragons, in the same manner as Tyrion does. However, as another commenter said elsewhere on this video, dreams *of* dragons and *dragon dreams* are not the same thing. Dany's dragon dreams are full on dragon dreams, where she *is* a dragon. Tyrion and Teora (sitting in a 🌳 k-i-s-s-i-n-g....), and at least another character or two - just can't remember right now - dream *of* dragons, but not in the same way.
Tyrion said they had the same dreams. . .as per "assuming" that Jon had once or twice thought about probably "killing" people who made his life as a bastard really hard, or just basically making him feel like shit most of his life for being the bastard. Just my opinion.
Yeah, I don't think it's anything to do with dragons
Tyrion making flames and staring at them if that’s not foreshadowing what is? His dragon dreams, his constant fascination with dragons. It’s too in your face to not have merit
I love the starks not because they are perfect or even honorable. But because they are the Kings of Winter. The blood of the white walkers. A Necessary evil (:
Thank you Gray❤ you are my favorite youtuber :)
He will be ruthless in the following story- exactly like Tywin and at the end he will be made Hand as punishment
They could of had skulls from before moving to dragonstone, but most likely not 3k years old
Tyrion says they’ve dreamt the same dreams, yet Jon literally never has a dragon dream.
Tyrion and Jon are great together
I think being a chimera could allow him to be both Tywin's son and have Targ traits. I know it sounds like a stretch but Say Joanna was pregnant with twins one being Tywin's and the other Aerys' but Tyrion absorbed the Targ twin, taking on some of the Targaryen traits
Statement : Ladies Tyrion was talking about the dreams of the outcast child killing the beloved siblings and being the only one who remains to inherit. Not specifically dragon dreams.
if any of the Lannisters are from the Mad Kings it's The Beautiful Jamie and Cercie. Tywin denies him because he hates what he sees in the mirror. Even his sister says that Tyrion Is Tywin son and not Jamie. The whole ugly truth of Tywins true reflection and what not....
Declaration : Also even if Jon is Rehgars son (dear God please no) he'd still be a bastard. Polygamy isn't recognized under the faith of the Seven and even in the current day The High Septom Crowns and annoits the king. It was that, and the issue with the death that led to Cercie reinstating the faith militant. So their views are still important.
Incredulous remark: The Dragon has 3 heads, why are we taking the word of a fever dream Quaithe sent? We know that there are puppet masters out there like Bloodraven hell now that there is a Glass Candle in the mix so many people can enter into your mind and give you visions. Sorry I'm just Skeptical of the cryptic messages sent in dreams by our *magical* character.
I think Tyrion calls him the Boy because even though the Westerosi see 16 as a mom grown Jon is still just a 15 yr old kid. Literally just a boy.
Tyrion being brutally honest with Jon is a gift that I don't think most people realize. Jon and all the Starks are horribly naive.
The Direwolves aren't always skin Changed sometimes they're just Dumb animals.
I think Tyrion was trying to get rid of Young Griff because if he Duck the half- maester and JonCon are there what place does that leave for Tyrion? If he's to have any influence with Danny they gotta be gone. He's already going to have a hard time witg Victorian there. The Iron born hate the weak and crippled if JonCon and Vic were there along with Barri the Bold Tyrion would have less than nothing they might even conspire to have him killed.
Yeah Post season 4 Tyrion without all the edge is sooo Bad. I love that he goes dark and is full of self loathing and hate.
Winterfel didn't participate in Book Burnings sponsored by the Faith of the Seven lol
Good points. And yeah, I'm of the same mind that, if Jon *is* Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, I'll be disappointed 😧
I'm not sure I understand your reference but when they talk of books burning at Winterfell they mean the fire that the cats paw set in the library.
@@balerionthecat5076 under certain Targaryen Kings especially baelor the Blessed certain text were burned ( unnatural history, dragonkin Etc) because they were considered to have dangerous information Winterfell didn't do that.
I think the comment about “Tywin was big even when he was little” is just as true if you replace Tywin’s name with Tyrion’s as well, and that supports Tyrion being a true Lannister as well.
👌🏻
I have tender spot in my heart for cripples, and bastards, and broken things
The Starks mistrust Lannisters periodt. It's house rivalry. It seems odd to you because its still early on in the world building and that first impression lingers. Compare it to the Tullys and the Freys, by the time we get to that random rivalry, you have an innate understanding of people being mistrustful ON SIGHT because of this seed in the garden.
If Tyrion is the 3rd head I would would be gobsmacked. I can't read so much anymore, my eyesight fails me and re-reading now ASOFS. Bloodraven often interfers with the wolves. But your podcast does not focus just on this chapter which I thought it would be. Chapter by Chapter?
I believe Tyrion is a Targaryen 100% but that doesn't mean he isn't a Lannister, because he was raised by Lannister's. Not to mention, Joanna herself was a Lannister as she was a first cousin to Tywin. Either way, just because Jon is a Targaryen doesn't mean he's not a Stark. Jon is the Starkiest of the Stark children besides Arya, and Tyrion is the Lannisteriest of the Lannisters of his generation. It's not a matter of nature but nurture in these regards. But yes I believe when it comes to Tyrion we'll never have a concrete answer because that's not how GRRM writes. There is no one there to tell Tyrion any of these "truths" besides possibly Bran, but even still it's more up GRRM's alley to make it ambiguous.
You’re absolutely right. Jon being a secret Targ doesn’t take away from his Stark nature and the same goes for Tyrion if he turns out to be a secret targ. 💕
Was just listening to the Stannis podcast and this pops up🔥🔥🔥🔥
I'm early for once! Love you Gray Area. I always look forward to your content 😊.
I believe the third head of the dragon could be Jon and Daenerys child they eventually have together. I've seen many theories where people either think it's Tyrion or fAegon but the witch at Harrenhal told Jahaerys II that the prince that was promised will be born in their (aerys and rhaella) bloodline. Jon and Daenerys are of Aerys blood line and their child would be too.
I would love for Jon & Dany to find happiness together but I'm not sure I understand how Jon will be able to father a child. Can wights reproduce?
"Jon sees Catelyn burning." Grey : *laughs*
🥴🥴opps
@@GrayArea 😂 But like you said it was understandable for Jon to do so.
2020 - For feck's sake...TYRION IS A BLOODY TARGARYEN
The glass candles are burning and I need Juice!!!!! Juice!!!!!!
GA!!!
Your videos are always so well done! Do you mind if I ask what program you used?
FTFY.... Two Wolves and a Little Demon Monkey. 😂😂
Who is the *second* wolf here haha?
Benjen doesn't even like Ned. Remember, Benjen went to Maester Luwin instead of Ned to talk about Jon joining the Night's Watch.🤷♀️🌹
If he even *did* go to Luwin. When he and Jon talk, he tells him he's too young and doesn't understand what he'd be giving up. Who knows. It just doesn't seem like something Benjen would have done. It's seems more of a convenience to Cat.
Alisa is so sweet! Your podcast is seriously one of the best
First sign of Jon's Targaryen nature.
The Starks are just human in this story as all of them. George loves to paint the picture of good in evil right and wrong in his characters.
Agon being face or not dose not change the fact that he can get a dragon the black fires are also targs they have the blood of the dragon to
Thanks for another excellent podcast, Grey. I agree the Starks are judgmental af.
I don't like, that Tyrion get's so much credit for things he doesn't deserve. First he never was "Hand of the King", he was "Acting Hand of the King" on behalf of the actual hotk, Tywin Lannsister. Also he didn't won the battle of blackwater bay. Tywin won this battle. If Tywin did not come to save the day (together with Loras Tyrell) the city would've been captured by Stannis. Without Tyrion Stannis would've probably captured the city, but never the Red Keep, before Tywin would've arrived. So at most Tyrion saved a lot of lives of soldiers and saved the city from getting "half-sacked".
Think it more that the house Lannister is disliked quite a lot. I mean Cersei hostile to the North - House Stark and House Lannister are some of the grandest houses in the land with rival power bases regionally and ideology. So it be a mix of Dwarf prejudice and from being Lannister
I don't think Jon is going to be a fire wight. He is going to be a scary wolf-man though.
I don’t think Jon or Tyrion are Targaryens. They are both sons of their stated fathers. Misdirection is quite an art lol! N+A=J
The Planetos ain't ready for a man like Tyrion Lannister.
Tyrion is a Targ and there's gonna be a love triangle among Tyrion-Dany-Jon!
About a year ago I started thinking that Tyrion is the Valencar and people called me crazy.
The Starks kids are called Jaden Willow and ........lol
Starks probably are opinionated because of what Tywin did. It wasn’t that long ago Tywin laid the dead Targ children at the feet of Robert. The should have been called The Dragon and The Dragon 😂
It’s official.. I’m going to read 1 book per month as Lady Gray commands
Any suggestions???