Vinh city - the only place in Vietnam where people speak proper Vietnamese?
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
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I think it is the best for people in media like television to speak like the written words. It would make it easier to understand.
One of the few big cities that I haven't visited yet...
Hi, I’m in Vinh City (Le Hong Phong) & really like this city. I’d like to study Vietnamese language here
Xin chàoo cô Annie. I have two students who speak the Hiế dialect. Is it similar to Vinh? Cảm ơn
Very interesting, thanks! ❤
i would love if you made videos like this in vietnamese with eng and viet subs!
It's interesting - as a Hà Nội based Vietnamese learner I've been told over and over again by my Vietnamese friends that the Nghệ An dialect is extraordinarily difficult to understand, but I personally find it much easier to listen to than giọng miền Nam or the other Central dialects - probably due to it closely matching the writing system, as you've pointed out.
It's really great to see videos about Vietnamese dialects made by someone who obviously studied linguistics, instead of relying on stereotypes and half-baked assumptions. A real breath of fresh air. Just a quick question - you mention at 6:06 that the Vietnamese letter 'd' is supposed to be used for the /j/ sound as used in the Southern dialect - but I'd read that that it was originally used to represent /ð/, as in the 'th' sound in 'this', while 'gi' represented /ʝ/ - and then all later dialects merged both of these sounds into /j/, and then the north subsequently changed it to /z/. Wouldn't it be more correct then to say that none of the extant Vietnamese dialects pronounce it correctly?
Thank you for your comment! Could you tell me what source did you read about the /d/ sound so I can check? Cảm ơn anh!
@@LearnVietnameseWithAnnie they might be referring to this wikipedia article on "middle vietnamese" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_language#Middle_Vietnamese
but I don't see any sources cited so it's hard to say where the idea is from
Fascinating
On tv and on official radio the Vietnamese spoken would be in the Ha Noi accent solely because Ha Noi is the capital city?
Seems to me that the Hanoi dialect diverged more with their opening consonants, while Southern dialect diverged more with their tones. If you overlay them together and remove those divergences, you get the Vinh city accent!
very interesting! also your voice is very soothing :)
Chào Annie! Mình có một gợi ý cho một video mới. You can review people speaking Vietnamese (natives and foreigners) and teach us things they are doing right and things that could be done better. It would be interesting to see these real life examples for people who don't have much exposure to speaking Vietnamese.
Thanks for your suggestion! I’ll think about it!
My modest meaning as a German struggling through Vietnamese literature ("the easiest language in the world", it was said): Let´s make the Vinh accent the standard for Vietnamese pronunciation with the tiny variation of pronouncing "d" as "y" in "New York".
Just by curiosity, is the “gi” sound as in “giới” is also pronounced “z” like the “d” in Vinh?
Thank you for this video lesson. I want to learn the Vinh dialect!!
why dont you make a video about the "standard" in vocabulary using. like in the North people say hoa for flower, quả for fruit, which are derived from Chinese, or săm for inner tube, lốp for tire, which are derived from French, while in the South people say bông, trái, ruột xe, vỏ xe respectively. these words are all originated from Vietnamese. but i think there are also words that people in the North are using that are purer than those people in the South are using
They are “purer” because generally the government is based in the north and as such language of the government and consequently the language of government media like news is written to conform to these northern dialects.
Thank you for your comment! I'll think about it!
Hello again. Do you know if the Vinh dialect pronounces Linh as Ling? Do you know why the ending "nh" is pronounced as "ng"? Cam on.
My Vinh teacher said that inh = ing. I find this to be very strange. Thanks again
Vinh speakers unify the ngã and nặng tones. So perhaps it’s a tie with Thái Bình dialect here. In Thái Bình r,tr,s are all distinct, but there’s a d/gi and t/tr merge. Though I heard that’s changing and the younger generation sounds a lot more Hanoian now.
Thank you for your comment! A speaker from other parts of Nghe An might unify ngã and nặng, but a Vinh speaker will not. See Luke’s comments below!
I have a question 🙋🏽♀️ Have you guys finished making audio tapes for your awesome Vietnamese learning books? I emailed you guys last year but never got a response.
Hello, can you please forward your email to us again? The audio files are available. We’ll send you asap!
I would like to learn southern & vinh accent like same ; so its sound good ... i
Hi chị Annie, a Hanoi speaker and linguistic enthusiast here. First of all, thanks for the interesting video. I always thought people from Vinh actually just speak with a generic Nghệ An dialect/accent, and the speeches shown in the video are delivered in the "cultured" variant of it, kind of like the Received Pronunciation used by BBC newscasters compared to the multitude of accents spoken in actual day-to-day speech in London. One example is the recently popular RUclipsr and TV host Khánh Vy, who comes from Vinh and speaks with the infamous Nghệ An dialect when speaking with her family, but uses the Hanoi dialect otherwise. I myself have never been to Vinh, but I know some people from the city, and when asked to speak in their natural accent, none of them actually speaks like the clips in the video. Other than that, I would recommend you to use the IPA transcription of sounds/morphemes. When using these brackets / /, it should be noted that the transcription in those may not be pronounced as it does in English orthography. For example, /j/ would be pronounced like the letter Y in English (e.g. the word YES is transcribed as /jɛs/). By the way, the letter D in Vietnamese was originally used to transcribed the /ð/ sound (like TH in THIS), as Late Middle Vietnamese still had this sound when Portuguese missionaries arrived in Vietnam. Gradually the /ð/ sound weakened in the South to become /j/, while in the North it became increasingly dentally fricated into the /z/ sound. So in modern Vietnamese no dialect could produce the sound as it was transcribed anymore. This is also the case with the GI grapheme, as it was intended for the /ʝ/ sound, which is very close to the /j/ sound. So if we want to spell really closely to how Middle Vietnamese sounded, D should be pronounced as /z/ and GI as /j/ instead of the other way around like most Southerners do. The last thing I want to address is the way the graphemes ƯU and ƯƠU are pronounced in Hanoi. It's true that many people in Hanoi pronounce them as IU and IÊU, especially in normal, fast speech, but most Hanoians (and TV newscasters with Hanoian accent) do produce the right sound, myself included. All in all, thank you for the video and reading this wall of text. All the best ^^
It is not true about /ð/ and GI. There is not sound ð in Vietnamese. GI is similar to GI /dʒ/of Italian in old Northern but now gi and d as /z/ in Northern+ North Central and as /j/ in Southern+ South Central.
@@thichtrongcayvietnam /ð/ doesn't exist in modern Vietnamese, yes, but historically it did. That's exactly why D was used to transcribe this sound, not /d/. Similarly, when I was in elementary school, we were taught to pronounce GI as /dʒ/ when spelling words. This is, however, also a modern thing, as historically GI was used to transcribe /ʝ/. These historical pronunciations persisted during the Middle Vietnamese period with confident reconstruction by the way, they only evolved into their modern forms in modern Vietnamese.
@@cuongpham6218 which history? How can you prove it?
@@thichtrongcayvietnam shs.hal.science/file/index/docid/920064/filename/Haudricourt1949_Peculiarities_MonKhmerStudies2010.pdf
To summarize, as for the letter D, it was used to transcribe a voiced prepalatal stop consonant in Middle Vietnamese (the time when Portuguese missionaries attempted at Romanizing Vietnamese), which to European ears sounded similar to /d/, but in fact was closest to /ð/. For the grapheme GI, however, it was noted that it was used to transcribe this sound /ʒ/ (so I was wrong, but still it's definitely not /dʒ/).
@@cuongpham6218but you said /ð/, not /d/. /ð/ is not /d/. Viet-Portuguese -Latin Dict also said this, it is /d/. /ð/ is only your opinion.
Typical social media message from a Vinh person (from today): "CC đạ nhỏ bất tiện đủ đường rồi còn lắm tật nựa. Rành chán k có lời mô tả nựa." Here you can see that ngã and nặng are collapsed, and some people don't use the ngã diacritic. I guess in this regard (tones), the orthography is thus closer to HN speech.
Chào anh Luke, thank you for your comment! I have a friend who is from Anh Sơn district, 90km from Vinh. His tones are all mixed up just like you described. I watched the Nghe An television and noticed that people coming from other districts of Nghe An speak differently from those from Vinh. People from Vinh pronounce 6 tones distinctively just like Hanoi people.
@@LearnVietnameseWithAnnie Chào Annie ạ, cảm ơn đã giải thích. Đúng là Nghệ An có một lựa chọn phương ngữ đa dạng! Theo kinh nghiệm của mình, rất nhiều người Nghệ An làm việc ở Vinh mà 'nỏ' (hay chưa) gọi Vinh là quê của họ. Có lẽ mình chưa bao giờ được gặp một người Vinh chính hãng! Vừa kiêm tra trong Thompson 1965; ông cũng báo là 6 thanh điệu khác biệt.
I am a người Vinh "chính hãng" and we mostly just speak with dấu nặng for words with dấu ngã, so Ngã tư would be Ngạ tư, unless we are trying to sound fancy or are speaking to people that are not from the Central. The accent heard on NTV spoken by reporters is in fact a modified version so as to sound more like HN accent, but as you can hear, they still pronounce the correct Tr and S. Even this modified version would take a lot of practice for a Vinh person.
Tr in Northern as in Ciao of Italian, wrong IPA /j/ for tr.
Tú vị. I don't believe in a "correct" accent, though I do like the north. The pronunciation sounds clear to the ear with a "Z' sound.
I know all southerners speak Saigon dialect *or southern but it infuriates me!!!! Hanoi speech clearly matches the orthography better, especially the consonant endings.
Much easier for a foreigner to learn Vietnamese.
But the Saigon accentb is so much more easy on the ear, and romantic!
If you hate it when speech doesn't match the spelling, imagine trying to learn English. It is tough but can be mastered through thorough thought though.
@@grantperkins368 Hanoians & every foreigner not from HCMC begs to differ....
@@tamnguyen676 LOL true. English spelling also does NOT match the pronunciation, & it takes years to become proficient/fluent in English. But at least there's less of a hurdle without the diacritic marks & the tones they represent!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just don't have a decade to dedicate to Vietnamese anymore, even though I'd like to learn how to say basic sentences!
@@Jumpoabletrue there!! 🤣 But facts.
Mention ưu, I immediately think of a song which is super hot these days - Lưu Số Em Đi.
And I have been wondering why lưu is pronounced liu in the song.
Central VN accent would be most accurate by standard of pronunciation of the written language.
Ha Noi has lost this contest!
🇻🇳❤️🇻🇳
Ne ke matha dam de he vinh dialect si kechok mu lang pu ke
Fascinating