I was scrolling down RUclips today and saw your thumbnail and thought wow that Black Templar looks awfully familiar! Thanks for the photo credit! First time I've ever seen any of my miniature photos used by someone other than me!
I'm sorry the only credit I could give was to link a reddit post. There were not a lot of good firstborn templars with boltguns online, your model was the best looking
It still makes me laugh that silly neckbeards think GW cares about making a 'good, balanced game'. They flat-out said long ago the models were their priority.
An addendum - short term sales. Maybe it's just cope around my salty feelings of GW pricing, but I do think that GW might actually sell more overall if they didn't require so much upfront cost. I think it's worth looking at Magic the Gatherings' business model of being cheap to start (hoho, first one is free), but then continually selling via "Ooooh but isn't this other deck cool too? What about this other format? It's just one more deck. Oh, you already run this deck, what about just buying a couple more pieces to give your composition a little extra spin?" and milking people who have already become invested in the game, instead of blockading new blood from the hobby. I'm no business major, so my opinion is layperson-tier, but intuitively it feels like GW has a really weird idea of where their revenue ought to come from.
TLDR: I think alot of these issues would be solved if GW just did a free living digital ruleset. So, my thoughts are a bit complicated. I'm not a 40K veteran, so these are thoughts coming from a newer player. I personally don't mind the regular balance changes because they're once every 3 months. You can predict what month to expect changes in when you know that. I'm also one of the few people who likes points per unit over points per model. However, I think that for rules changes that aren't points, the separated locations of sources for rules changes and updates, that is an issue. This is one of many reasons that GW should just do a living digital ruleset for Warhammer. But they are beholden to investors who won't let them stop printing army books because its a source of revenue for them. Additionally, I believe I understand why GW are driving down the points of the underperforming factions. Not to get *too* cynical here, but my understanding is that they don't want to re-write datasheets for individual units, or even just tweak their weapons to be better. Because that requires an amount of forethought and effort they'd rather spend on writing a codex. Buf it they did a living digital ruleset, they could just re-write datasheets at their leisure and release them with regular balance updates. Since they'd no longer be beholden to a dedicated release schedule for army books. Basically, GW should make the rules free and remove army codexes as the only way to give armies meaningful updates without doing what they did to Votann or Deathguard, by just cutting points and injecting their army rule with a shot of flat, uncompromising power.
Sooooo, One Page Rules? Isn't that exactly that? And it pretty much accommodates the whole GW model line? Not to dive too deep into the whole 3D printing thing. But at 10$ a month.... Infinite models... Yeah. Not at the level of GW yet. But they're getting there. And U CAN STILL USE GW MODELS.
I really wish the codexes were a collectors thing and all the rules were always in the app. I pay for the app now and like it enough, but I HATE I can't look at things I don't have the codex for. My necron buddy always gets rules wrong, and now I have to memorize 3rd party info for an army I don't play just so I don't feel like I am getting cheated (even if it is unintentionally)
I get where you're coming from but I'd like to point out a few things: "...the separated locations of sources for rules changes and updates, that is an issue. " -This is not really the case. If you buy a codex, you have access to the App with the rules updates right there. If you don't have the codex, you aren't really "supposed" to have access to your faction rules period. "Buf it they did a living digital rule set, they could just re-write datasheets at their leisure and release them with regular balance updates. Since they'd no longer be beholden to a dedicated release schedule for army books. " -The problem is that they don't want to do datasheet/army rule changes because it's hard. It not to sell codexes, it's literally that. I'm not even joking. Look at Custodes and Knights for example, they got fairly minor in terms of how much changed rules changes and they went from the top to the bottom of the meta almost immediately. These kind of changes cause wild swings in the meta and nobody wants that. They want their faction to be fun and balanced. So even if it was a living document with free rules, it would still be about the same. Ultimately and unfortunately, I don't think free digital rules really fixes anything. I'm still broadly in favor of it since it would make the game about $60 cheaper, but I don't think it would actually solve any fundamental problems. All that being said, yeah, I agree that points changes aren't what's really need right now. Several armies need balanced datasheet changes to be actually FIXED instead of just "balanced" It's just I get why GW thinks that's a risky "last resort" but it's time to us that "last resort."
Yeah, at this point, proxying should be the norm. Only keeps you from playing at Warhammer stores or in official tournaments. But nothing stops you from playing at FLGS and your buddy's place. And as long as you're chill about having a 3D printed army (ie not flaunting it/bashing GW), I've never had an issue playing with strangers in Kill Team.
I think we may be seeing the end of codexes. The lore that is a really important part of those books is now present 100x more through black library. The points and rules (which are immediately outdated) are now available via subscription and easy accessed and changed via the app. The rollout of rules via codex is massively slow with factions getting their full rules less than a year before the edition changes (meaning through the life of an edition some factions are playing half a game tbh). There is a modernisation going on that is at a midpoint in 10th imo.
Yeah, the app should be the source of truth, but I find the bug turnaround cycle to be in terms of months, not days. Am I shocked each indexcodex doesn't have a curating team? Not really.
Once a codex releases you lose access to those data points in the app unless you have a codex … I find it frustrating to have to pay for a physical book to gain access to a the RTV. This is on top of the yearly subscription I paid for on the app
Codexes? What the hell are those?! I decided to finally pull the trigger and get into 40k, bought some Sisters. 9th had come out during the summer, and everyone assured me that since the SoB Codex was the last to come out for 8th, I could buy it and play with it for a while. I ordered the 8th ed codex in February or March and got it in time for their 9th ed codex and models to be announced... When the Squats were being brought back I was super excited! After all I love dwarves, and hate how technologically illiterate half the 40k factions are (Also because it reminds me too much of current day), so they were the faction I was most disappointed to find out had been Squat'd. Order the Army Box and maybe 5 days before it's street date the CODEX WAS ALREADY OUTDATED. So yeah, codexes, are those what you buy when directly flushing cash down the toilet is too plebian for you?
I'm so torn on points. It's great having points go down because then I can take more cool stuff in my list. But it also means that I just barely have 2k Necrons now when I was safely above 2k before, and that I could easily not be able to field a 2k army if they drop again without buying more.
In Infinity the unit rules, and point costs do change sometimes. Even outside of edition changes. That being said, it’s much less common than in Warhammer. The fact that the maximum army size for Infinity is only 15 models (with some exceptions) also helps stop changes from becoming overwhelming.
and if i am correct, part of the points is from gear enhancements that don't appear on the model? So a points change doesn't mean you have to change the models in your force?
Some gear is reflected on the model, and some isn’t. It also varies by sculpt. Some models also don’t have sculpts for all of their equipment options. Covus Belli don’t have the same industrial capacity as GW, so Infinity has to be more accepting of proxy models just to fill some gaps in the line.
This is why I play One Page Rules now, I’m sick of GWs bs. Many things like how their points are calculated through a program, not just vibes which seems to be how GW picks points. It’s so well put together that if you patreon for not that much, you can use the exact same calculator and program as the devs use to make your own custom factions that fit seamlessly into official factions, because all the points are calculated the same. There are many other things I love about OPR, but this is a big one for me rn comparing it to 10th. If this sounds like I’m simping for OPR, yes I am you are correct
@zissoulander Good luck with your game. Stick to winning the primary game by holding 3 points is the best tip i can give, especially in Canoptek Court. Doomstalker is a good unit but a pain to move up the board on Wtc terrain.
@@Seijik4702 Yeah, I plan to grab two points and home and hold that. In index I had doomstalkers follow control node technos for the +1 to hit buff. Now they can hang out in deployment and move up into center if I have control matrix up. Full rerolls to hit is much better than +1 to hit, even while moving. Gonna see how the wraiths fare as a melee buffer. I plan on infiltrating one unit on a point to get matrix control quicker.
I have my Lychguard and I will use my Lychguard. I ain't buying that many wraiths as I only want 6. Can never understand why people do that like Orks with 15 Mek guns WTF.
On one hand, more frequent points changes means your army is not trash for years like in older editions. On the other hand, the constant points and rules changes to appease Tournament Bros that get to have way too much input on these changes. Make it hard to keep up or even pay attention to the changes if you have a life outside of 40k. The only thing worse is having to use the last edition codex for an entire all but the last few months of a edition for your faction, which made them almost unplayable.
The thing is though is that both players can agree on what to do outside tournaments and should neve feel shackled to them. I always found it strange that are so Hell bent on following Tournament rules when some don't even go in the first place.
The comedy is that even GW fixing the Captain issue still supports your point. After 6 weeks you had no reason to expect that to change. And 100% on other games being both cheaper and more stable, it's a large part of why my friend and I moved to Battletech.
Units having costs for set model counts has the advantage that they can price differently sized units disproportionately. For example, if 20 necron warriors are more than twice as good as 10 necron warriors, they could cost more than twice as much. Or you could make a double sized unit of rubric marines cost less. Etc, etc. A shame they refuse to do anything like that. 😑
For the infinity portion, I haven't seen any major point changes, but also list building is 100% free online anyway with rules and stats being updated infrequently, if at all. It is also a lot cheaper in terms of army because it's a skirmish game vs. a full army game
I won't take blame away from GW for not updating non codex SM chapter leader issue soon enough, but man the playerbase really wanted to be stupid about it as well. Players should have been able to carry on letting lieutenants leading blood claws or similar, but some people wouldn't have it. There was a post on the competitive warhammer subreddit with a reply to a person going to the GW tournament about that issue. They said anything that points to assault squads, could be led by anything that can lead assault intercessors. I shared that to my flgs discord, and I still had someone pipe up "just because it's at a GW event doesn't mean the rules have been updated yet!" Holy hell man. Back to points thing though; I do like GW taking a hands on approach to balancing things, but I can understand people not constantly following updates could slip on things. I feel I would rather have more updates than not though.
The constant change of rules is such that it becomes kind of a second job to keep up with the rules/game styles affecting all the 20+ armies. By the time you are familiar with half of them, rules are changed
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber I couldn’t keep up with 9th and I had to stop playing it at some point to be honest. Adjustments are good but only when they are extremely necessary.
"What can 40k players do?" The opposite of what they've been doing for many, many years- most of them complain but keep buying into the game. If Imperial Knights tripled in effectiveness tomorrow, and tripled in price- a load of GW fanboys would be selling their own family members to human traffickers to get a whole set. They bend over and take it from GW, lubed up for them- and whine about it later. GW wins, either way. The 'fix' to this is: 1- Play other games. 2- If you like 40k that much, then get cracking with a homebrew rules system or variant. 3- At a minimum- for three months, don't buy ANY GW products. That's all it'd take to start seeing some interesting moves.
I’ve got seven factions I’m ready to put on the table (I was single for a while!(halcyon days)) but I still haven’t bought the 10ed rulebook and starting to doubt I’ll even bother after this update nightmare.
The 40k rules need to be written by a separate entity. 10ed has some good ideas, but overall this edition is probably going to be remember as one of the worst editions in 40k's history up there with 6th and 8th. A big part of the fun of 40k is that your army is a form of self-expression, either through how you paint and assemble your models and/or how you write lists and equip the units. 10ed pretty much takes half of that equation off the table completely, because every army list is boiled down to oversimplified rules with almost zero flexibility or customization. Enhancements are not customization, before anyone brings that up. I also hate how micromanaged the game is by GW right now; these points and rules changes are both an indication that GW does not understand their own game, and also that they understand their consumer base all too well. One of the things I love about older editions, like 4th edition for example, is that after 19 years a Space Marine tactical squad is still 15pts per model. Seriously yall wanna see a masterpiece of a codex, check out the 2004 Space Marine codex or alternatively the 2002 Chaos Space Marine 3.5e codex. That being said, I do like the idea of Critical Hits/Wounds, and some aspects of Mortal Wounds. Those are some solid mechanics even if they are a little too easy to get right now.
Me*: keep adding models, got a stormlord. Storm lords need more models to function (24 firing deck) shoves 3 units of mortars team and a 20 man infantry squad for 2 more mortars). Fun times
The thing with Armor of Contempt is that it was a great rule for Space Marines because AP was too damn high with basically negated saving throws. The way GW could have easily made it palatable to even people who just want all space marines to die is to have had it reduce all AP EXCEPT for AP -1. Done. It would have given other armies the ability to still inflict a negative saving throw and it would have given SM armies a +4 at least save which helps to keep them around especially since they have had such high point costs for units that barely did damage depending. Yeah Eradicators did work but what else did SM armies have? To the people that just absolutely hate and despise SM because GW supports them even though as fans we have ABSOLUTELY NO SAY in what GW does, go touch grass. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk ^_^
Armies feeling more hordey than they should is especially egregious for AdMech. Who have the dubious distinction of having many models with a _1:1 Points-per-dollar ratio._ In a game where "standard" matches are 2000 pts. If an army will, conceivably, cost close to _two grand,_ you're better off buying a Warlord Titan. At least then, there will be fewer fiddly tiny bits that snap off if you even look at the model funny. This is why people buy 3d printers. AdMech really shouldn't be a horde army.
That Infinity team example is oversimplified considering the game is a skirmishing “army” of special operatives. It is a good start, though. Not far off from reaching tournament standard games after your first buy.
Due note that most Infinity models are made of metal and can be quite expensive if you take into account that you pay for static posed singular models instead of a whole squad.
Good thing i already had 70 neophytes before the pointdrop... Points change but models looks stay awesome, buy for that, everything else is fickle, as tzeentch decrees
Yeah, they should figure out some sort of formula that sorts out points properly. Like which takes into account movement, range, BS, WS, Leadership, Armour Save, Special abilities, Army rules... I accept it would probably end up quite complicated. One thing you DID say, You mentioned the Missionary? I bought a Missionary and 3 Arcoflaggelants to make up the last 70 pnts in a 1500 force and have something to sit on objectives. However this far I have bulit him as standard with Chainsword and normal gun. Can you explain exactly what the advantage of a Shotgun would be (In the current rules - I accept it can change.) Would it be worth remodelling for a cheap unit that's job is to get to and sit on an out of the way objective?
the shotgun advantage is that you can advance with the squad and because you have an Assault weapon this lets you still perform secondary actions after advancing
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber ahhh, so it allows him to complete some secondary missions after advancing? What an odd rule! I’ll have to check his data sheet.
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber here’s a weird one for you. Arco Flagellants have [Sustained Hits 1] as standard right? So give them a Missionary as a leader which gives units [Sustained Hits 1] with War Hymn - so does that make them Sustained Hits 2? Would that be any good? I suppose Extremis Trigger word giving 6 x S5 TWin-Linked Sustsined Hits 2? Thoughts? 🤔
I imagine there is an executive sitting somewhere in Nottingham, looking at people pointing out that their codexes are out of date a week after purchase and, while lighting a cigar with a £50 note, saying "do these people not have phones?"
To be fair, would it really be that different if they charged you £50 for just digital rules? Like, you are basically just paying for pretty art and digital rules at this point.
@@dickkickem4238 At least with digital ones, everyone would be on the same page when an edit is made, rather than some people not knowing about it and using out-of-date rules mere days after purchase.
💯 I commented a different reply same argument why give me an app I then have to buy a book to access data give me a paper free way to gain access to your codex release data….. I just bought the necron codex as the locked the data points after its release 🤦🏽♂️
Here's a proposal. One unit costs one point. A monster, vehicle or walker model costs two points. An army is five, ten or twenty points, depending on the format of your choosing. There you go, screw the non-existent "balance", and enjoy watching the world burn.
Yeah, I would never run my current Guard army if I had to play it on an actual table. TTS is a lifesaver, all the Guardsmen for none of the cost Aside from my friend's sanity when I say "I can eat x many losses a turn. Can you?"
Yes i feel the points are very wierd right now for 10th ed. I also did think much about an elite army running as horde. I consider sisters as elites. That being said i just took all my sisters infintry units and got to 1k points with 76 models as a legal army. Personally. Just feels kinda wrong. Sisters shouldnt be gardsmen.
Support me to make more videos by tipping me at ko-fi.com/voncarmianvtuber Understand that money sent through these platforms are tips and are non-refundable and you are sending money under agreement that you will not issue a chargeback.
Hello... I've been playing since 2nd Edition- my ears piqued up when you mentioned 2nd Ed. Periodically I just play what I call "5+" 40k. The rules are simple- both sides get the same number of Models. No matter what you are doing- you succeed on a 5+. Do I hit? Roll a 5+. Did I Wound? Roll a 5+. Did I make a Save? Roll a 5+. It is extremely "vanilla"... however both sides are Balanced... each Mini has the same percentage of causing damage, making a save, etc. Basically this works for folks who just want to sit down and play with their kool-looking models... no mini ever gets "phased out"... every model counts, has a chance to do something, etc. I'm not sure what the best course of action is with the game... GW is going to Muck with it... and every 3 years we can be expected to buy a new Rulebook, a new Codex, etc. 40k is like buying a New Car- the moment you drive it off the lot, it has depreciated in value... or I guess like buying a Video Graphics Card... by the time you get it into your computer, it is outdated by something else. I like the idea of there being a central nexus of Points- all you would need do is to tap your device (tablet, phone, watch, scroll) and things would update in your Army List... that may be the point of the Warhammer App or the Warhammer+ stuff. Honestly- any chance GW has to milk us... they will. And we will do it gladly. (Primaris Marines- I'm talking about you here). Ta ta- thank you again for your wonderful channel. =)
As an admech player, I can't complain about winrates. But the points situation is bad. We are the most expensive faction, and every edition has gotten worse. Rules changes should be more focused than points.
I think that Warhammer has a lot of problems, and the availability of rules is a major one. But rebalancing points is a simple and good way to fix the balancing without changing around rules. I like it, but not the implementation.
Good video - I would strongly advise severely limiting or removing the whoosh sound every time you change slides; the video would be improved without it.
I genuinely don’t understand why the codex’s exist for anything other than lore and I genuinely don’t understand why GW’s app isn’t free. It’s the only official place to have everything in one spot and it’s under a subscription model. I hate it and it’s scummy, it’s like they’re actively trying to make people not play their game.
This system is better. In the before times CSM had one wound for years. sometimes the traitor legions wouldn't have rules for whole editions. There was a time they only had generic daemons. SM just want easy wins.
WTF are you taking about? I don't know what SM players you have met but the ones I know just want to not be shat on by everyone for the dumb fu ck decisions GW makes. The 9th edition CSM codex was awesome and if only GW would have not messed up the lore and just added different types of troops but had the whole faction unified then it would have been more palatable for people. it is people who have armies like Custodes, Eldar/Dark Eldar and Tyranids who want easy wins because da lore. Yeah I know Eldar get their asses kicked at times but their arrogance is no different than Custodes.
@@viewtifuljoe4412 LOL child! I remember all the years of iron hands, ward grey nights, space wolf and dark angel nonsense. Not a peep. Oh They cheered double oath of the moment/hellblasters, no talk of fast rules then. But when those met Forgefiends. Now it's an issue.You can't make a comment without cursing and sputtering, lashing out at GW. You's never cut it in the board-room if I can get get riled up over plastic barbie-men.
I think the codex and the rules should be completely separated. The core rules are free already. If you could unlock the faction rules in the app you dont need a codex, which would spare money for gw in printing costs. The points and some other values being outdated in the codex already when it drops makes it pointless to own it to play the game. So many people would buy the codex if it was only a lore drop. Selling codes with the codexes only makes the chinese printing and delivering companies money
I would not buy a codex if it was only a lore drop. I like rules in the book. The 9th edition CSM codex was so fucking awesome. Lore and awesome fun rules that should have been also with the Ork codex but GW has no idea what to do with the Orks except dat ugly ass beast snagga line of models.
@@viewtifuljoe4412 as a new ork player I only have one issue with beast snagga models and that is that they seem to deliberately be some of the only good anti-tank in the army despite the large amount of other units that should be good anti-tank. If the orks had some better internal balance it would be nice, because I don't like the idea of buying beast snaggas just to get anti-tank since for some reason they are better at it than tankbustas. Most of the other rules seem fine though, I think 9ths Waaagh was a bit better but most stratagems are good, at least for flavor, and the index detachment goes well with a combat patrol set. Lore is also very fun, I don't own the codex but just reading the lore is great though I don't know how much of that was in the codex.
@@jacksonhoiland2664 I wish you many great WAAAGH!!! my fellow Ork. I agree with you and honestly in terms of lore if you can get your hands on an 8th edition codex those stories especially the one about the creation of the Megatrakk Scrapjet (personal favorite Ork model) about their rune system of language as well as everything else is what got me to fall in love with the Orks in the first place.
Good luck playing 10th edition once 11th is out. None of the changes found online NOW will be available any longer. You will be back to rulebook(s) and codizes again. Compare this to a series available on a streaming service. Yes, you can watch it at any time, and all new episodes are available at once. But the moment said service decides to pull the series, you have... nothing. And good luck finding DVDs of certain series these days, if they are even a thing at all. This rant was brought to you by an old guy.
Many of us were still around during the PS2 era where we got whole games without updates which made them for the most part feel complete. As for my armies I bought what I want and could give less of a damn about the points because they don't mean anything except to boost model sales for GW. Just like how they pushed too many of those shitty phobos units.
10th edition is better than 7/8/9 at launch. Also the points changing more often is a good thing. It lets them address armies that need help and those that need to be nerfed.
![FNAF vs TF2 - Episode 2 [SFM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z5b3V2-VLb0/mqdefault.jpg)
I was scrolling down RUclips today and saw your thumbnail and thought wow that Black Templar looks awfully familiar! Thanks for the photo credit! First time I've ever seen any of my miniature photos used by someone other than me!
I'm sorry the only credit I could give was to link a reddit post.
There were not a lot of good firstborn templars with boltguns online, your model was the best looking
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber I was just so excited to see it and the cherry on top was the credit! Thank you for that and you've got a sub for life!
its almost like GW point cost decisions are motivated by sales rather than balance...
It still makes me laugh that silly neckbeards think GW cares about making a 'good, balanced game'.
They flat-out said long ago the models were their priority.
Incroyable.
An addendum - short term sales. Maybe it's just cope around my salty feelings of GW pricing, but I do think that GW might actually sell more overall if they didn't require so much upfront cost.
I think it's worth looking at Magic the Gatherings' business model of being cheap to start (hoho, first one is free), but then continually selling via "Ooooh but isn't this other deck cool too? What about this other format? It's just one more deck. Oh, you already run this deck, what about just buying a couple more pieces to give your composition a little extra spin?" and milking people who have already become invested in the game, instead of blockading new blood from the hobby.
I'm no business major, so my opinion is layperson-tier, but intuitively it feels like GW has a really weird idea of where their revenue ought to come from.
Certainly helped Elegoo sales.
I just don’t think they are that coordinated.
TLDR: I think alot of these issues would be solved if GW just did a free living digital ruleset.
So, my thoughts are a bit complicated. I'm not a 40K veteran, so these are thoughts coming from a newer player. I personally don't mind the regular balance changes because they're once every 3 months. You can predict what month to expect changes in when you know that. I'm also one of the few people who likes points per unit over points per model.
However, I think that for rules changes that aren't points, the separated locations of sources for rules changes and updates, that is an issue. This is one of many reasons that GW should just do a living digital ruleset for Warhammer. But they are beholden to investors who won't let them stop printing army books because its a source of revenue for them.
Additionally, I believe I understand why GW are driving down the points of the underperforming factions. Not to get *too* cynical here, but my understanding is that they don't want to re-write datasheets for individual units, or even just tweak their weapons to be better. Because that requires an amount of forethought and effort they'd rather spend on writing a codex. Buf it they did a living digital ruleset, they could just re-write datasheets at their leisure and release them with regular balance updates. Since they'd no longer be beholden to a dedicated release schedule for army books.
Basically, GW should make the rules free and remove army codexes as the only way to give armies meaningful updates without doing what they did to Votann or Deathguard, by just cutting points and injecting their army rule with a shot of flat, uncompromising power.
Sooooo, One Page Rules? Isn't that exactly that? And it pretty much accommodates the whole GW model line?
Not to dive too deep into the whole 3D printing thing. But at 10$ a month.... Infinite models... Yeah. Not at the level of GW yet. But they're getting there. And U CAN STILL USE GW MODELS.
I really wish the codexes were a collectors thing and all the rules were always in the app. I pay for the app now and like it enough, but I HATE I can't look at things I don't have the codex for. My necron buddy always gets rules wrong, and now I have to memorize 3rd party info for an army I don't play just so I don't feel like I am getting cheated (even if it is unintentionally)
I get where you're coming from but I'd like to point out a few things:
"...the separated locations of sources for rules changes and updates, that is an issue. "
-This is not really the case. If you buy a codex, you have access to the App with the rules updates right there. If you don't have the codex, you aren't really "supposed" to have access to your faction rules period.
"Buf it they did a living digital rule set, they could just re-write datasheets at their leisure and release them with regular balance updates. Since they'd no longer be beholden to a dedicated release schedule for army books.
"
-The problem is that they don't want to do datasheet/army rule changes because it's hard. It not to sell codexes, it's literally that. I'm not even joking. Look at Custodes and Knights for example, they got fairly minor in terms of how much changed rules changes and they went from the top to the bottom of the meta almost immediately. These kind of changes cause wild swings in the meta and nobody wants that. They want their faction to be fun and balanced. So even if it was a living document with free rules, it would still be about the same. Ultimately and unfortunately, I don't think free digital rules really fixes anything. I'm still broadly in favor of it since it would make the game about $60 cheaper, but I don't think it would actually solve any fundamental problems.
All that being said, yeah, I agree that points changes aren't what's really need right now. Several armies need balanced datasheet changes to be actually FIXED instead of just "balanced" It's just I get why GW thinks that's a risky "last resort" but it's time to us that "last resort."
This is why I’m hugely in favor of proxying third party models and paper craft minis. Doesn’t solve the problem but it helps.
Yeah, at this point, proxying should be the norm.
Only keeps you from playing at Warhammer stores or in official tournaments. But nothing stops you from playing at FLGS and your buddy's place.
And as long as you're chill about having a 3D printed army (ie not flaunting it/bashing GW), I've never had an issue playing with strangers in Kill Team.
I think we may be seeing the end of codexes. The lore that is a really important part of those books is now present 100x more through black library. The points and rules (which are immediately outdated) are now available via subscription and easy accessed and changed via the app. The rollout of rules via codex is massively slow with factions getting their full rules less than a year before the edition changes (meaning through the life of an edition some factions are playing half a game tbh). There is a modernisation going on that is at a midpoint in 10th imo.
good thoughts!
Yeah, the app should be the source of truth, but I find the bug turnaround cycle to be in terms of months, not days. Am I shocked each indexcodex doesn't have a curating team? Not really.
Once a codex releases you lose access to those data points in the app unless you have a codex … I find it frustrating to have to pay for a physical book to gain access to a the RTV. This is on top of the yearly subscription I paid for on the app
Codexes? What the hell are those?!
I decided to finally pull the trigger and get into 40k, bought some Sisters. 9th had come out during the summer, and everyone assured me that since the SoB Codex was the last to come out for 8th, I could buy it and play with it for a while. I ordered the 8th ed codex in February or March and got it in time for their 9th ed codex and models to be announced...
When the Squats were being brought back I was super excited! After all I love dwarves, and hate how technologically illiterate half the 40k factions are (Also because it reminds me too much of current day), so they were the faction I was most disappointed to find out had been Squat'd. Order the Army Box and maybe 5 days before it's street date the CODEX WAS ALREADY OUTDATED.
So yeah, codexes, are those what you buy when directly flushing cash down the toilet is too plebian for you?
"when the sleepy comes for you" made me laugh out loud. Great video again, always love your content!
Glad you enjoy it!
I'm so torn on points. It's great having points go down because then I can take more cool stuff in my list.
But it also means that I just barely have 2k Necrons now when I was safely above 2k before, and that I could easily not be able to field a 2k army if they drop again without buying more.
Hmm... If only we had free rules online. That surely would be nice.
In Infinity the unit rules, and point costs do change sometimes. Even outside of edition changes. That being said, it’s much less common than in Warhammer. The fact that the maximum army size for Infinity is only 15 models (with some exceptions) also helps stop changes from becoming overwhelming.
and if i am correct, part of the points is from gear enhancements that don't appear on the model? So a points change doesn't mean you have to change the models in your force?
and thank you for the infinity knowledge
Some gear is reflected on the model, and some isn’t. It also varies by sculpt. Some models also don’t have sculpts for all of their equipment options. Covus Belli don’t have the same industrial capacity as GW, so Infinity has to be more accepting of proxy models just to fill some gaps in the line.
I also appreciate that the Infinity rules, and first party army builder app are both free.
This is why I play One Page Rules now, I’m sick of GWs bs. Many things like how their points are calculated through a program, not just vibes which seems to be how GW picks points. It’s so well put together that if you patreon for not that much, you can use the exact same calculator and program as the devs use to make your own custom factions that fit seamlessly into official factions, because all the points are calculated the same. There are many other things I love about OPR, but this is a big one for me rn comparing it to 10th. If this sounds like I’m simping for OPR, yes I am you are correct
And you are correct to simp for One Page Rules.
@@Bluecho4I second this.
Ah yes. My castigator's spectacular turn one deaths agree with "play what with you have" lol
So about Lychguard...
We don't do that anymore.
It's now 18 Wraiths with 3+ 4++ 5+++ for 3/4 of the price of the Lychguard.
I'm playing my first game of 10th with Canoptek Court - 2x10 tesla immortals, 2x6 wraiths, 3x1 doomstalker. Let's see how it goes
@zissoulander Good luck with your game. Stick to winning the primary game by holding 3 points is the best tip i can give, especially in Canoptek Court. Doomstalker is a good unit but a pain to move up the board on Wtc terrain.
@@Seijik4702 Yeah, I plan to grab two points and home and hold that. In index I had doomstalkers follow control node technos for the +1 to hit buff. Now they can hang out in deployment and move up into center if I have control matrix up. Full rerolls to hit is much better than +1 to hit, even while moving. Gonna see how the wraiths fare as a melee buffer. I plan on infiltrating one unit on a point to get matrix control quicker.
I have my Lychguard and I will use my Lychguard. I ain't buying that many wraiths as I only want 6. Can never understand why people do that like Orks with 15 Mek guns WTF.
On one hand, more frequent points changes means your army is not trash for years like in older editions. On the other hand, the constant points and rules changes to appease Tournament Bros that get to have way too much input on these changes. Make it hard to keep up or even pay attention to the changes if you have a life outside of 40k. The only thing worse is having to use the last edition codex for an entire all but the last few months of a edition for your faction, which made them almost unplayable.
The thing is though is that both players can agree on what to do outside tournaments and should neve feel shackled to them. I always found it strange that are so Hell bent on following Tournament rules when some don't even go in the first place.
Good idea having safe search on when looking at overwatch
The comedy is that even GW fixing the Captain issue still supports your point. After 6 weeks you had no reason to expect that to change. And 100% on other games being both cheaper and more stable, it's a large part of why my friend and I moved to Battletech.
Units having costs for set model counts has the advantage that they can price differently sized units disproportionately. For example, if 20 necron warriors are more than twice as good as 10 necron warriors, they could cost more than twice as much. Or you could make a double sized unit of rubric marines cost less. Etc, etc.
A shame they refuse to do anything like that. 😑
that would be so good - and could fix the Proteus kill team issue
Been having a blast at my local lgs with my Death Guard and Nids. Only been doing 1500 and under games with a rule of no duplicate units.
Sounds fun. Though as an admech player my main army would hate that. Though, my Guardsman would probably have a blast.
Yeah it isnt for some armys that is for sure. @@dickkickem4238
For the infinity portion, I haven't seen any major point changes, but also list building is 100% free online anyway with rules and stats being updated infrequently, if at all. It is also a lot cheaper in terms of army because it's a skirmish game vs. a full army game
I won't take blame away from GW for not updating non codex SM chapter leader issue soon enough, but man the playerbase really wanted to be stupid about it as well. Players should have been able to carry on letting lieutenants leading blood claws or similar, but some people wouldn't have it. There was a post on the competitive warhammer subreddit with a reply to a person going to the GW tournament about that issue. They said anything that points to assault squads, could be led by anything that can lead assault intercessors.
I shared that to my flgs discord, and I still had someone pipe up "just because it's at a GW event doesn't mean the rules have been updated yet!" Holy hell man.
Back to points thing though; I do like GW taking a hands on approach to balancing things, but I can understand people not constantly following updates could slip on things. I feel I would rather have more updates than not though.
The constant change of rules is such that it becomes kind of a second job to keep up with the rules/game styles affecting all the 20+ armies. By the time you are familiar with half of them, rules are changed
yeah, it sucks if you play more than one army but 10th edition is thankfully not as bad as 9th edition
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber I couldn’t keep up with 9th and I had to stop playing it at some point to be honest. Adjustments are good but only when they are extremely necessary.
Some games manage to be playable and fun for years and years without constant “updates”.
I’ve been playing “Napoleon’s Battles” for almost 30 years.
BattleTech has entered the chat.
Today I learned there is a Warhammer 40k vtuber
Day improved
"What can 40k players do?"
The opposite of what they've been doing for many, many years- most of them complain but keep buying into the game. If Imperial Knights tripled in effectiveness tomorrow, and tripled in price- a load of GW fanboys would be selling their own family members to human traffickers to get a whole set. They bend over and take it from GW, lubed up for them- and whine about it later. GW wins, either way.
The 'fix' to this is:
1- Play other games.
2- If you like 40k that much, then get cracking with a homebrew rules system or variant.
3- At a minimum- for three months, don't buy ANY GW products. That's all it'd take to start seeing some interesting moves.
I’ve got seven factions I’m ready to put on the table (I was single for a while!(halcyon days)) but I still haven’t bought the 10ed rulebook and starting to doubt I’ll even bother after this update nightmare.
The 40k rules need to be written by a separate entity. 10ed has some good ideas, but overall this edition is probably going to be remember as one of the worst editions in 40k's history up there with 6th and 8th. A big part of the fun of 40k is that your army is a form of self-expression, either through how you paint and assemble your models and/or how you write lists and equip the units. 10ed pretty much takes half of that equation off the table completely, because every army list is boiled down to oversimplified rules with almost zero flexibility or customization. Enhancements are not customization, before anyone brings that up. I also hate how micromanaged the game is by GW right now; these points and rules changes are both an indication that GW does not understand their own game, and also that they understand their consumer base all too well. One of the things I love about older editions, like 4th edition for example, is that after 19 years a Space Marine tactical squad is still 15pts per model. Seriously yall wanna see a masterpiece of a codex, check out the 2004 Space Marine codex or alternatively the 2002 Chaos Space Marine 3.5e codex.
That being said, I do like the idea of Critical Hits/Wounds, and some aspects of Mortal Wounds. Those are some solid mechanics even if they are a little too easy to get right now.
Management and Executives are the ones at fault.
I loved 9th with my Orks and CSM. Have not played a game in 10th nor do I plan on it.
Me*: keep adding models, got a stormlord. Storm lords need more models to function (24 firing deck) shoves 3 units of mortars team and a 20 man infantry squad for 2 more mortars). Fun times
The thing with Armor of Contempt is that it was a great rule for Space Marines because AP was too damn high with basically negated saving throws. The way GW could have easily made it palatable to even people who just want all space marines to die is to have had it reduce all AP EXCEPT for AP -1. Done. It would have given other armies the ability to still inflict a negative saving throw and it would have given SM armies a +4 at least save which helps to keep them around especially since they have had such high point costs for units that barely did damage depending. Yeah Eradicators did work but what else did SM armies have?
To the people that just absolutely hate and despise SM because GW supports them even though as fans we have ABSOLUTELY NO SAY in what GW does, go touch grass. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk ^_^
Armies feeling more hordey than they should is especially egregious for AdMech. Who have the dubious distinction of having many models with a _1:1 Points-per-dollar ratio._ In a game where "standard" matches are 2000 pts. If an army will, conceivably, cost close to _two grand,_ you're better off buying a Warlord Titan. At least then, there will be fewer fiddly tiny bits that snap off if you even look at the model funny.
This is why people buy 3d printers. AdMech really shouldn't be a horde army.
That Infinity team example is oversimplified considering the game is a skirmishing “army” of special operatives. It is a good start, though. Not far off from reaching tournament standard games after your first buy.
Due note that most Infinity models are made of metal and can be quite expensive if you take into account that you pay for static posed singular models instead of a whole squad.
Good thing i already had 70 neophytes before the pointdrop...
Points change but models looks stay awesome, buy for that, everything else is fickle, as tzeentch decrees
Shoutout to Corvus Belli and Infinity for keeping it real throughout N4.
Yeah, they should figure out some sort of formula that sorts out points properly. Like which takes into account movement, range, BS, WS, Leadership, Armour Save, Special abilities, Army rules... I accept it would probably end up quite complicated. One thing you DID say, You mentioned the Missionary? I bought a Missionary and 3 Arcoflaggelants to make up the last 70 pnts in a 1500 force and have something to sit on objectives. However this far I have bulit him as standard with Chainsword and normal gun. Can you explain exactly what the advantage of a Shotgun would be (In the current rules - I accept it can change.) Would it be worth remodelling for a cheap unit that's job is to get to and sit on an out of the way objective?
the shotgun advantage is that you can advance with the squad and because you have an Assault weapon this lets you still perform secondary actions after advancing
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber secondary actions? Such as? 🤷🏻♂️
secondary mission cards from the Leviathan deck like Deploy teleport Homer@@MartynStanleyAuthor
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber ahhh, so it allows him to complete some secondary missions after advancing? What an odd rule! I’ll have to check his data sheet.
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber here’s a weird one for you. Arco Flagellants have [Sustained Hits 1] as standard right? So give them a Missionary as a leader which gives units [Sustained Hits 1] with War Hymn - so does that make them Sustained Hits 2? Would that be any good? I suppose Extremis Trigger word giving 6 x S5 TWin-Linked Sustsined Hits 2? Thoughts? 🤔
I imagine there is an executive sitting somewhere in Nottingham, looking at people pointing out that their codexes are out of date a week after purchase and, while lighting a cigar with a £50 note, saying "do these people not have phones?"
Management and Executives have always been the worst aspect of a company.
To be fair, would it really be that different if they charged you £50 for just digital rules? Like, you are basically just paying for pretty art and digital rules at this point.
@@dickkickem4238 At least with digital ones, everyone would be on the same page when an edit is made, rather than some people not knowing about it and using out-of-date rules mere days after purchase.
💯 I commented a different reply same argument why give me an app I then have to buy a book to access data give me a paper free way to gain access to your codex release data….. I just bought the necron codex as the locked the data points after its release 🤦🏽♂️
Here's a proposal. One unit costs one point. A monster, vehicle or walker model costs two points. An army is five, ten or twenty points, depending on the format of your choosing. There you go, screw the non-existent "balance", and enjoy watching the world burn.
Yeah, I would never run my current Guard army if I had to play it on an actual table. TTS is a lifesaver, all the Guardsmen for none of the cost
Aside from my friend's sanity when I say "I can eat x many losses a turn. Can you?"
Thanks! For keeping it fun!
thank you very much!
Yes i feel the points are very wierd right now for 10th ed.
I also did think much about an elite army running as horde. I consider sisters as elites. That being said i just took all my sisters infintry units and got to 1k points with 76 models as a legal army. Personally. Just feels kinda wrong. Sisters shouldnt be gardsmen.
I agree and admech players are wondering why they have to send in the next wave...
That was the size of my marine list last match, all infantry except one invictor. 76 models, 2k points.
Support me to make more videos by tipping me at
ko-fi.com/voncarmianvtuber
Understand that money sent through these platforms are tips and are non-refundable and you are sending money under agreement that you will not issue a chargeback.
Hello... I've been playing since 2nd Edition- my ears piqued up when you mentioned 2nd Ed. Periodically I just play what I call "5+" 40k. The rules are simple- both sides get the same number of Models. No matter what you are doing- you succeed on a 5+. Do I hit? Roll a 5+. Did I Wound? Roll a 5+. Did I make a Save? Roll a 5+. It is extremely "vanilla"... however both sides are Balanced... each Mini has the same percentage of causing damage, making a save, etc. Basically this works for folks who just want to sit down and play with their kool-looking models... no mini ever gets "phased out"... every model counts, has a chance to do something, etc.
I'm not sure what the best course of action is with the game... GW is going to Muck with it... and every 3 years we can be expected to buy a new Rulebook, a new Codex, etc. 40k is like buying a New Car- the moment you drive it off the lot, it has depreciated in value... or I guess like buying a Video Graphics Card... by the time you get it into your computer, it is outdated by something else.
I like the idea of there being a central nexus of Points- all you would need do is to tap your device (tablet, phone, watch, scroll) and things would update in your Army List... that may be the point of the Warhammer App or the Warhammer+ stuff. Honestly- any chance GW has to milk us... they will. And we will do it gladly. (Primaris Marines- I'm talking about you here). Ta ta- thank you again for your wonderful channel. =)
As an admech player, I can't complain about winrates. But the points situation is bad. We are the most expensive faction, and every edition has gotten worse.
Rules changes should be more focused than points.
I think that Warhammer has a lot of problems, and the availability of rules is a major one. But rebalancing points is a simple and good way to fix the balancing without changing around rules. I like it, but not the implementation.
the points just keep dropping and decreasing the points per dollar value of armies.
GW always fix one problem by making another one. If they actually made forward progress without breaking something else I’d likely die of shock.
Good video - I would strongly advise severely limiting or removing the whoosh sound every time you change slides; the video would be improved without it.
I genuinely don’t understand why the codex’s exist for anything other than lore and I genuinely don’t understand why GW’s app isn’t free. It’s the only official place to have everything in one spot and it’s under a subscription model. I hate it and it’s scummy, it’s like they’re actively trying to make people not play their game.
i think the blast rule is bad. i think they should rework all blast weapons and just steals how it works from One page rule.
This system is better. In the before times CSM had one wound for years. sometimes the traitor legions wouldn't have rules for whole editions. There was a time they only had generic daemons. SM just want easy wins.
WTF are you taking about? I don't know what SM players you have met but the ones I know just want to not be shat on by everyone for the dumb fu ck decisions GW makes. The 9th edition CSM codex was awesome and if only GW would have not messed up the lore and just added different types of troops but had the whole faction unified then it would have been more palatable for people. it is people who have armies like Custodes, Eldar/Dark Eldar and Tyranids who want easy wins because da lore. Yeah I know Eldar get their asses kicked at times but their arrogance is no different than Custodes.
@@viewtifuljoe4412 LOL child! I remember all the years of iron hands, ward grey nights, space wolf and dark angel nonsense. Not a peep. Oh They cheered double oath of the moment/hellblasters, no talk of fast rules then. But when those met Forgefiends. Now it's an issue.You can't make a comment without cursing and sputtering, lashing out at GW. You's never cut it in the board-room if I can get get riled up over plastic barbie-men.
@@tonylittleton8549 Cool. have a good day.
I think the codex and the rules should be completely separated. The core rules are free already. If you could unlock the faction rules in the app you dont need a codex, which would spare money for gw in printing costs. The points and some other values being outdated in the codex already when it drops makes it pointless to own it to play the game. So many people would buy the codex if it was only a lore drop. Selling codes with the codexes only makes the chinese printing and delivering companies money
I would not buy a codex if it was only a lore drop. I like rules in the book. The 9th edition CSM codex was so fucking awesome. Lore and awesome fun rules that should have been also with the Ork codex but GW has no idea what to do with the Orks except dat ugly ass beast snagga line of models.
@@viewtifuljoe4412 as a new ork player I only have one issue with beast snagga models and that is that they seem to deliberately be some of the only good anti-tank in the army despite the large amount of other units that should be good anti-tank. If the orks had some better internal balance it would be nice, because I don't like the idea of buying beast snaggas just to get anti-tank since for some reason they are better at it than tankbustas. Most of the other rules seem fine though, I think 9ths Waaagh was a bit better but most stratagems are good, at least for flavor, and the index detachment goes well with a combat patrol set. Lore is also very fun, I don't own the codex but just reading the lore is great though I don't know how much of that was in the codex.
@@jacksonhoiland2664 I wish you many great WAAAGH!!! my fellow Ork.
I agree with you and honestly in terms of lore if you can get your hands on an 8th edition codex those stories especially the one about the creation of the Megatrakk Scrapjet (personal favorite Ork model) about their rune system of language as well as everything else is what got me to fall in love with the Orks in the first place.
Good luck playing 10th edition once 11th is out. None of the changes found online NOW will be available any longer. You will be back to rulebook(s) and codizes again.
Compare this to a series available on a streaming service. Yes, you can watch it at any time, and all new episodes are available at once. But the moment said service decides to pull the series, you have... nothing. And good luck finding DVDs of certain series these days, if they are even a thing at all.
This rant was brought to you by an old guy.
I think todays youths are kinda used to patches for videogames.
So some points adjuatments are probably not to aggrevating
Many of us were still around during the PS2 era where we got whole games without updates which made them for the most part feel complete. As for my armies I bought what I want and could give less of a damn about the points because they don't mean anything except to boost model sales for GW. Just like how they pushed too many of those shitty phobos units.
The Sisters Army i would Like to have Costs 2000....€
Old enough to remember when SoBs dropped, and they've ALWAYS been a pricy faction to play.
Top 3 most costly….requires you to have extra spending cash to play them😂…. Not that I would know anything about it
i hate to inform you, but this is in fact a video essay LOL
Are genestealers not 28 points anymore? 🤔🤔
🤣😂
I have a solution to all the above problems just play ONE PAGE RULES
10th edition is better than 7/8/9 at launch. Also the points changing more often is a good thing. It lets them address armies that need help and those that need to be nerfed.
I think my main issue is just how squishy everything is now. That and army sizes shrinking alongside the Table Size means games feel short and boring
Play at 1500pts, like the game was meant to be.
you may enjoy a video that I have coming out next week...
YAY IM EARLY!
Me too
I'm proud of you!
@@RazorFox WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
move to onepagerules