I’ve been following Anglican Unscripted for many years. I always enjoy the discussion. I am a Global Methodist Pastor who exited from the UMC in 2023 with the Church I serve. Ryan did an excellent job representing the hard situation we faced. However, since disaffiliating there is renewal taking place in our church and God is blessing in so many ways. Thanks again for a great podcast!
The UMC has behaved just like Romans 1, they denied God, hid the truth- Romans 1:24 ESV Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
You moralistic folks are actually extremely selfish in that you're more pre occupied with your own relationships with God, with perfection than you are caring for other human beings.
@@davidsprouse151 Without morals David what is there? Serious question. Jesus priorities were that people would not be in bondage to Sin. And that man may be reconciled to God through his blood.
The Methodist Conference in Hong Kong has no official link to the UMC. It functions totally independently and has not compromised the Methodist Book of Discipline.
I was raised UM, went to Asbury for my MDiv, and am now a priest in the ACNA (have been an Anglican priest since before 2009). I was both relieved and saddened to see the church I went to as a child go over to the Global Methodist Church (relieved that they got out, saddened that it came to this in the first place). To be honest, I never thought I would have been as affected by this as I have been.
My great grandfather Ambrose Preston Linn was Methodist ordained in Missouri 1853, his son Dr Paul Linn was President Central Methodist College in Fayette. My Dad and Mom were Methodist who converted to uuEpiscopal just before I was born. Just a Feast of love we have ffor Methodism and I too was surprised at depth of my sadness at the demise. My spouse and I with our entire Parish escaped to ACNA 27 years ago. This sadness likely compounded losses of Episc opal Cof E and Methodism...I am grateful and feel hopeful all ACNA parishes and other fullness of Faith Anglicans others will be stronger and stay true to the Faith, have a Devout and Faithful Priest and Bishop as we do and elect a "Love and Service " Vestry. We will continue to grow God willing by together following God's plan, not sin, the world, and the flesh.
I have been following this for a number of years, excited to see this. I don't know if any church in New York City has gone Global Methodist yet. The majority are ethnic congregations, majority African-American, here, including Ghanaians and Liberians here in The Bronx.
Laurels to Anglican Unscripted for bringing Dr. Danker on. As unassuming as he is, he is highly recognized in Anglican and Methodist circles theologically and as a historian.
An interesting interview that I'll forward. A couple of caveats: •Truitt at Baylor is aligned with the liberal Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. I'd approach with caution. •St. Paul's K Street has a rich heritage but has gone wobbly in recent years.
He didn't mean Truett Seminary in general. He meant the newly formed Wesley House of Studies at Truett which was founded by Billy Abraham and is now headed up by Jason Vickers. It should be a solid program.
I think it would be a huge problem in NYC, if churches have to pay half the value of their churches. A lot of churches are on valuable property, with grounds and parking, in the middle of towns or in the downtowns of cities.
I had a friend who said that the UMC used extortion on the churches that wanted to disaffiliate and some churches could not afford to pay what was requested. My church was in an area that did not give us a problem and we disaffiliated. The numbers will not be complete because there will be people who leave UMC churches that could not or did not disaffiliate and go somewhere else. I am sure there may be some from disaffiliated churches that will move to a UMC church. The African churches were not notified in time to get visas to come to speak up and vote so they had no vote in the matter. This has been such a sad situation that has taken the focus off of God and His word and put it on human belief.
If many clergy said that they accepted the discipline when they were ordained, when that statement wasn't true, then they were liars. The result is a church composed of pastors who don't hold the Ten Commandments, among other standards of integrity, very highly. What could possibly go wrong with a situation such as that?
I am glad for this conversation as you confronted it with integrity and not misinformation. I’ve seen other conversations that used fear tactics, misinformation and demonize the UMC. Your advice about relying on the Holy Spirit was spot on. Thank you.
West Virginia churches were hardly given a chance to disaffiliate by the resident bishop, but because they’re not a major player in the UMC landscape barely anyone noticed.
West Virginian marooned in California here, I've looked around RUclips and found precious little about what's happening in the UMC in WV. Do you think disaffiliation will be smooth or rancorous?
Regular EO listener here: I have great respect for the Wesleyan- Holiness movement. Orthodoxy teaches Christian perfection, also. Or I should say, Wesley say that it was an apostolic doctrine & hope. I pray for faithful believers because the scourge of disingenuous ones who lie & deceive & connive & force… No good. Those most faithful to their traditions will most likely be in a better place to relate to others, and move toward unity *in Christ.*
Indeed orthodoxy does aim to perfect human behavior. An impossible goal. Pragmatism accepts our fallen nature and has a healthier, more productive relationship to sin. Many of the dilemmas between the liberals and conservatives hinge on these ideas.
@@davidsprouse151 This misunderstands both the Orthodox doctrine & the Scripture. I wish I was able to flesh it out here. I’ll only say that the “pragmatism” of the Orthodox spiritual fathers & mothers recognizes that being perfected never ends since God & His Love is without limit. No saint having been “perfected” in this life (theosis) would see him-/herself as anything but an unfinished work in progress.
@@traceyedson9652 It's not a misunderstanding. It's a difference of priorities and goals; a difference of discipline. “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. It really comes down to priorities. The cool thing about the bible and christianity is how there's something for all different types of people who come from all differing points of view. It's better to err on the side of inclusivity. Erring being the operative word.
I'm from Malaysia/Singapore. Here we never referred to them as "progressives", just "liberals". But the last of the liberals in all the traditional mainline denominations retired in the 80's. Now everyone of them in the mainline denominations are evangelical. We have no more liberal seminaries. It's very easy to understand why. Who would want to be a pastor when they only believe in half the Bible?
Hi, The news is very disheartening. 7000 plus God-fearing Methodist churches left. How many stayed with the progressives? I pray that the true Methodist churches will continue to thrive. Can anyone believe that the progressives will be around in 50 years? I agree that the people will leave even if the hierarchy doesn't. This break is not a polity issue but a Bible issue. Best of luck.
Grand session. Good to see Kevin as a meliorist for a change. Can’t help but think that the graceful humanity of his guest had something to do with this
I'm a Catholic but married to someone who grew up Methodist so I'm interested in this topic. I think the Catholic Church wouldn't comment because Catholic teaching is clear on this matter and we believe we're the true Church. So there isn't much to say other than it's sad to see the United Methodist Church moving away from God's law.
Sad in Dallas Texas. Likely hardest on the biggest churches (UMC) Huge buildings, upkeep clergy and staff high costs .. In the Episcopal church volcano ,many churches left ( to ACNA) total membership and with our property .... TEC required us to continue to pay our full assessment and of course we paidat our assessment to our ACNA diocese. . We had no debts and had never in 60 years borrowed from Episcopal Church Dallas.
1) The sunset of the disaffiliation provision in 2023, coupled with the cancellation of the General Conference in 2020 and 2022, is what brought the split to a head now. 2) We have fundamentally different concepts of God and how His followers are to relate to Him. Continuing to exist together in covenant was always going to be untenable.
Hey guys. Common sense and conscience tells me what is wrong. Like sleeping around. If I am going to a church I want the church to help me break bad habits. Not make me comfortable in my bad habits. So not sure what these churches are up to. I found a traditional Latin mass Catholic Church. They are giving me the whip and discipline. It is challenging but I love it. I needed it.
I was thinking the same regarding the Episcopalians & Anglicans. No one tells me what Bible l must read or that l cannot say the Lord's Prayer or read the Apostles Creed. I don't go to Church for sex, so what is all this focus on genders ?
Of course. It's important to weed out the ego centrism from both the traditionalists and the reformers. Unfortunately sexuality is used for great affect in autocracies.
As presently constituted The C of E is dead, but it doesn’t know it. The evangelicals in the C of E will leave and will not give their money to a structure they see as Apostate!
I'd encourage you to take another in-depth look and update your opinion. Though I am sure there is the occasional progressive faculty member, the overwhelming majority are theologically conservative and lean toward GMC. Look up D. Watson, S. Kisker, P. Bellini, and many others. I know this because I have taken courses there recently.
United is much more theologically conservative than the Methodist Theological School in Ohio aka Methesco. Thankfully, when I went to seminary the UMC accepted degrees from Ashland Theological Seminary which is part of the Brethren Church. When I was at ATS the majority of the students were UMC not Brethren.
Wow! Both of you have been in the UMC WAY too long. Bad company breeds bad results. Your consciences are seared and no longer work. You are pleased because a liberal seminary is better than a far left seminary. One of you is a female pastor which is NO different than a gay pastor biblically. Both are abominations. You cannot read scripture correctly anymore and you can no longer tell right from wrong. SAD!
Why is there no talk about going to the conservative branch of Methodism as in Free Methodist, Wesleyan, Nazarene? Just leave the liberal UMC and go to one of these.
Lovely discussion, but a bit more transparency is needed. Is Ryan a part of the GMC,,,, or the UMC? Is he hocking the ideas of the GMC over the UMC ? Does he believe they the GMC is now the correct branch of Methodism. He seems to be a bit holier than thou on the part of the LEAVERS VS the stayers. Where Is the point of view of the people who were quite happy with staying???? Where is the point of view of the people who told the leavers don't let the door hit your ass on the way out,,, and don't try and steal anything from us as your leaving??? Where are these people??? oh thats right you don't want to hear from them.
I’ve been following Anglican Unscripted for many years. I always enjoy the discussion. I am a Global Methodist Pastor who exited from the UMC in 2023 with the Church I serve. Ryan did an excellent job representing the hard situation we faced. However, since disaffiliating there is renewal taking place in our church and God is blessing in so many ways. Thanks again for a great podcast!
Africa was treated very poorly.
The UMC were great colonialists. They maneuvered their procedure to shut up and override the will of the people of color.
The UMC has behaved just like Romans 1, they denied God, hid the truth-
Romans 1:24 ESV
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
They neither turned from God nor to the lusts of their hearts. They allowed for "alternative facts"
You moralistic folks are actually extremely selfish in that you're more pre occupied with your own relationships with God, with perfection than you are caring for other human beings.
@@davidsprouse151 Which is what defines the rejection of God and the authority of His Word.
@@lynnm.2019 I don't judge them viz God'sfavor or disfavor(the moralistic folks ) I just wish they'd get their priorities straight
@@davidsprouse151 Without morals David what is there? Serious question. Jesus priorities were that people would not be in bondage to Sin. And that man may be reconciled to God through his blood.
Thank you for, in less than an hour, bringing greater clarity to this issue than the hours of Methodist videos I've seen.
Glad it was helpful!
The Methodist Conference in Hong Kong has no official link to the UMC. It functions totally independently and has not compromised the Methodist Book of Discipline.
I was raised UM, went to Asbury for my MDiv, and am now a priest in the ACNA (have been an Anglican priest since before 2009). I was both relieved and saddened to see the church I went to as a child go over to the Global Methodist Church (relieved that they got out, saddened that it came to this in the first place). To be honest, I never thought I would have been as affected by this as I have been.
My great grandfather Ambrose Preston Linn was Methodist ordained in Missouri 1853, his son Dr Paul Linn was President Central Methodist College in Fayette. My Dad and
Mom were Methodist who converted to uuEpiscopal just before I was born. Just a Feast of love we have ffor Methodism and I too was surprised at depth of my sadness at the demise. My spouse and I with our entire Parish escaped to ACNA 27 years ago. This sadness likely compounded losses of Episc opal Cof E and Methodism...I am grateful and feel hopeful all ACNA parishes and other fullness of Faith Anglicans others will be stronger and stay true to the Faith, have a Devout and Faithful Priest and Bishop as we do and elect a "Love and Service " Vestry. We will continue to grow God willing by together following God's plan, not sin, the world, and the flesh.
@mafakefoot just curious, are you Mary Ann Mueller, the retired (mostly) journalist?
I have been following this for a number of years, excited to see this. I don't know if any church in New York City has gone Global Methodist yet. The majority are ethnic congregations, majority African-American, here, including Ghanaians and Liberians here in The Bronx.
Laurels to Anglican Unscripted for bringing Dr. Danker on. As unassuming as he is, he is highly recognized in Anglican and Methodist circles theologically and as a historian.
An interesting interview that I'll forward. A couple of caveats:
•Truitt at Baylor is aligned with the liberal Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. I'd approach with caution.
•St. Paul's K Street has a rich heritage but has gone wobbly in recent years.
He didn't mean Truett Seminary in general. He meant the newly formed Wesley House of Studies at Truett which was founded by Billy Abraham and is now headed up by Jason Vickers. It should be a solid program.
I'd still exercise caution as I'd suspect that many core courses will still br taught by Truitt faculty.
@@TheDCinSC BTW, you're wrong about them being associated/aligned with the CBF.
I stand corrected, partially. They are intentionally weak on the inerrancy of Scripture.
I think it would be a huge problem in NYC, if churches have to pay half the value of their churches. A lot of churches are on valuable property, with grounds and parking, in the middle of towns or in the downtowns of cities.
I had a friend who said that the UMC used extortion on the churches that wanted to disaffiliate and some churches could not afford to pay what was requested. My church was in an area that did not give us a problem and we disaffiliated. The numbers will not be complete because there will be people who leave UMC churches that could not or did not disaffiliate and go somewhere else. I am sure there may be some from disaffiliated churches that will move to a UMC church. The African churches were not notified in time to get visas to come to speak up and vote so they had no vote in the matter. This has been such a sad situation that has taken the focus off of God and His word and put it on human belief.
God bless you, thank you
If many clergy said that they accepted the discipline when they were ordained, when that statement wasn't true, then they were liars. The result is a church composed of pastors who don't hold the Ten Commandments, among other standards of integrity, very highly. What could possibly go wrong with a situation such as that?
I am glad for this conversation as you confronted it with integrity and not misinformation. I’ve seen other conversations that used fear tactics, misinformation and demonize the UMC. Your advice about relying on the Holy Spirit was spot on. Thank you.
West Virginia churches were hardly given a chance to disaffiliate by the resident bishop, but because they’re not a major player in the UMC landscape barely anyone noticed.
West Virginian marooned in California here, I've looked around RUclips and found precious little about what's happening in the UMC in WV. Do you think disaffiliation will be smooth or rancorous?
Regular EO listener here: I have great respect for the Wesleyan- Holiness movement. Orthodoxy teaches Christian perfection, also. Or I should say, Wesley say that it was an apostolic doctrine & hope. I pray for faithful believers because the scourge of disingenuous ones who lie & deceive & connive & force… No good. Those most faithful to their traditions will most likely be in a better place to relate to others, and move toward unity *in Christ.*
Indeed orthodoxy does aim to perfect human behavior. An impossible goal. Pragmatism accepts our fallen nature and has a healthier, more productive relationship to sin.
Many of the dilemmas between the liberals and conservatives hinge on these ideas.
@@davidsprouse151 This misunderstands both the Orthodox doctrine & the Scripture. I wish I was able to flesh it out here. I’ll only say that the “pragmatism” of the Orthodox spiritual fathers & mothers recognizes that being perfected never ends since God & His Love is without limit. No saint having been “perfected” in this life (theosis) would see him-/herself as anything but an unfinished work in progress.
@@traceyedson9652 It's not a misunderstanding. It's a difference of priorities and goals; a difference of discipline. “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.
It really comes down to priorities. The cool thing about the bible and christianity is how there's something for all different types of people who come from all differing points of view.
It's better to err on the side of inclusivity. Erring being the operative word.
I'm from Malaysia/Singapore. Here we never referred to them as "progressives", just "liberals". But the last of the liberals in all the traditional mainline denominations retired in the 80's. Now everyone of them in the mainline denominations are evangelical. We have no more liberal seminaries. It's very easy to understand why. Who would want to be a pastor when they only believe in half the Bible?
That's called a straw man fallacy. Lol😊
The Bishop of GMC that gave a robust sermon at the recent conference/ordinations would have been a great interview as well.
Hi, The news is very disheartening. 7000 plus God-fearing Methodist churches left. How many stayed with the progressives? I pray that the true Methodist churches will continue to thrive. Can anyone believe that the progressives will be around in 50 years? I agree that the people will leave even if the hierarchy doesn't. This break is not a polity issue but a Bible issue. Best of luck.
Grand session. Good to see Kevin as a meliorist for a change. Can’t help but think that the graceful humanity of his guest had something to do with this
I'm a Catholic but married to someone who grew up Methodist so I'm interested in this topic. I think the Catholic Church wouldn't comment because Catholic teaching is clear on this matter and we believe we're the true Church. So there isn't much to say other than it's sad to see the United Methodist Church moving away from God's law.
My prayer is that the Global Methodist Church and the ACNA will come together in some form or manner!
The Methodists would need to submit to the requirements of the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral, at a minimum.
Sounds good to me
Sad in Dallas Texas. Likely hardest on the biggest churches (UMC) Huge buildings, upkeep clergy and staff high costs .. In the Episcopal church volcano ,many churches left ( to ACNA) total membership and with our property .... TEC required us to continue to pay our full assessment and of course we paidat our assessment to our ACNA diocese. . We had no debts and had never in 60 years borrowed from Episcopal Church Dallas.
1) The sunset of the disaffiliation provision in 2023, coupled with the cancellation of the General Conference in 2020 and 2022, is what brought the split to a head now.
2) We have fundamentally different concepts of God and how His followers are to relate to Him. Continuing to exist together in covenant was always going to be untenable.
Hey guys. Common sense and conscience tells me what is wrong. Like sleeping around. If I am going to a church I want the church to help me break bad habits. Not make me comfortable in my bad habits. So not sure what these churches are up to. I found a traditional Latin mass Catholic Church. They are giving me the whip and discipline. It is challenging but I love it. I needed it.
God Bless the Global Methodist Church!
very interested in this topic!
You guys should bring Reformed Zoomer on to talk about his Reconquista plan.
Watching from Portugal.... (Family Wedding)
"It's not safe to give out a lot of opinions right now."
Wait... it's not SAFE? Isn't that the greatest condemnation you could give a church?
It's sad. I have fond memories of attendng Methodist churches in New England. I have a great deal of respect for the foundational principles.
It doesn’t take 45 minutes and 48 seconds to say that satan has entered the minds of apostates in the Methodist church in an attempt to destroy it.
Thanks
I was thinking the same regarding the Episcopalians & Anglicans. No one tells me what Bible l must read or that l cannot say the Lord's Prayer or read the Apostles Creed. I don't go to Church for sex, so what is all this focus on genders ?
It's fashioning one's hermeneutics to current events. In poly ticks we all know who's number one.
Sex related issues were a big problem for the Corinthian church, according to the Apostle Paul.
Of course. It's important to weed out the ego centrism from both the traditionalists and the reformers.
Unfortunately sexuality is used for great affect in autocracies.
850,000 members / 4500 churches = 189 members per church
GO Kevin!! Such a nice man and I've feel pain As was Death of the Episcopal Church 42:52 and now th CofE..
John Wesley himself broke his ordination vows and got by with it. No surprise that experience became the driving force for his successors.
the first shall be last and the united shall be divided
As presently constituted The C of E is dead, but it doesn’t know it. The evangelicals in the C of E will leave and will not give their money to a structure they see as Apostate!
The grateful dead😢
The West Virginia bishop would only let churches leave by closing.
Is Dr Danker related to Frederick W Danker, of BDAG fame?
United Theological Seminary in Dayton has been Progressive for over 50 years. I looked at its course catelog 50 years ago and puked.
I'd encourage you to take another in-depth look and update your opinion. Though I am sure there is the occasional progressive faculty member, the overwhelming majority are theologically conservative and lean toward GMC. Look up D. Watson, S. Kisker, P. Bellini, and many others. I know this because I have taken courses there recently.
United is much more theologically conservative than the Methodist Theological School in Ohio aka Methesco. Thankfully, when I went to seminary the UMC accepted degrees from Ashland Theological Seminary which is part of the Brethren Church. When I was at ATS the majority of the students were UMC not Brethren.
Wow! Both of you have been in the UMC WAY too long. Bad company breeds bad results. Your consciences are seared and no longer work. You are pleased because a liberal seminary is better than a far left seminary. One of you is a female pastor which is NO different than a gay pastor biblically. Both are abominations. You cannot read scripture correctly anymore and you can no longer tell right from wrong. SAD!
I’ve never heard of a Protestant church splitting before ? Jesus said
“Let them be one”
Protestants no thx
There are over 42k christian denominations in the world. Not kidding! At least the rcc has a claim to authority. The rest of you are posers
Oh dear, St Paul’s K Street is very liberal….
I am looking forward to the flat earth methodists
Why is there no talk about going to the conservative branch of Methodism as in Free Methodist, Wesleyan, Nazarene? Just leave the liberal UMC and go to one of these.
The head of the United Methodists church will answere to God john Wesley would roll over in his grave if he saw what was happening
Lovely discussion, but a bit more transparency is needed. Is Ryan a part of the GMC,,,, or the UMC? Is he hocking the ideas of the GMC over the UMC ? Does he believe they the GMC is now the correct branch of Methodism. He seems to be a bit holier than thou on the part of the LEAVERS VS the stayers. Where Is the point of view of the people who were quite happy with staying???? Where is the point of view of the people who told the leavers don't let the door hit your ass on the way out,,, and don't try and steal anything from us as your leaving??? Where are these people??? oh thats right you don't want to hear from them.
Unsubscribed.
They'll be back. 😮 this was painful to watch. It's like group therapy for toxic males.
hold your breath, why don’t you?
What an odd remark.
"They'll be back," said every abusive spouse.
What is a toxic male? Definition?
David’ is our troll and we enjoy reading his comments 😜