“No introspection” never asking “why did we lose 25% of our churches, why haven’t we had a single year of growth since 1968”. What I and other people have been just amazed by is the total lack of self-awareness among the leaders in my (former) conference. They were saying and doing things that were Actually, making more churches want to disaffiliate. And they could not even see what they were doing.
[danielhixon8209] Bull shit!!!!!!!!!! They knew exactly what they were doing and I mean that small group of "so-called" leaders who have co-opted your church and then brainwashed those high enough in leadership roles who could have stopped them. Is what I have read correct, a few years ago this guy (NOT a believer pastor) in Atlanta (was it Atlanta?) stands up before his congregation and declares his support for LGBQ, Transgender, etc. and even threatens those who will "fight the good fight"!! Is that what YOU CALL "lack of self-awareness among the leaders"!! Really!!!!!!! In other words YOU actually think they are believers in God and Christ?? The same has already happened in the Catholic Church and there are those who know "EVIL" when they see it.
It’s going to take several years for all this to shake out and settle. I’m a worship leader in the GMC and my prophecy is that by 2030 the GMC will be a force for the Gospel that will make the Devil shake.
Don’t even put the key under the mat. Let them get their own locks. I will probably have a key “destroying” ceremony when I leave never to return again. I am sad, mad and very distressed!!!! The UMC will never flourish. They have turned their backs on God. As for me, I will let God lead me to the next step.
@suzannescott705 I walked away a year and a half ago when it became clear our elderly rural congregation of about 25 wouldn't disafilliate. While a new GMC recently popped up 20 miles from our home, I've been going to our Russian Orthodox Church 8 miles away since stepping away. They don't mess around with the world and its ways like the UMC allowed to leak in! I have learned SO much in the authentic Orthodox Church. Even John Wesley used many of their original sources to formulate Methodism. For that, I am thankful. My husband wants us to at least visit the new GMC, but I don't know if they will be as conservative and authentic as Russian Orthodox. Also, will the Methodists who disafilliated grow or continue to dwindle and age out as the UMC has been doing for 50 years? If they don't grow, they at least escaped the heretical teachings and practices plaguing the UMC, and they won't collapse with it. I can see the new UMC merging with the Unitarian Universalists in the near future, because that's what they really are--not authentic Methodists in traditional Wesleyanism.
People who are saying to vote with their feet creating a great deal of grief for me. There are few alternatives in my part of the world that have Wesleyan theology. When I was newly saved in the 70 I learned about rural missions and church planting and home missions. We need Wesleyan missions to come to the North East.
@@kelzworldkz9347 I'm not sure why people voting with their feet would cause grief. They are leaving places which only hold an illusion of Wesleyan theology, not actual Wesleyan theology. To your second point, I agree. I'm a Nazarene in Maine and I looked into alternatives for the Methodists who may be leaving the UMC. Other than the Nazarenes, there are no other consistent options for Wesleyans in this state.
I would love to take classes at WBS. I even looked into it and spoke to someone on staff. Unfortunately, the costs are outside of my means. One day, I hope to be a student.
Interesting that the UMC General Conference passed a “reaffirmation” petition this week that allows churches a pathway of grace to return to the UMC if they so desire. I also don’t know of any UMC members who plan to attend - or agitate - at the GMC conference in September. Go in peace, but just go.
For the faithful work of the saints, Rob and Tom, and for those who've gone before them to keep the flame bright in the UMC, the Maxie Dunnam's of the world, we give you our deepest thanks. You've been prayed for in this season, especially tonight.
Sadly Rachel, we are already there. Just look at the mess at Point Loma, and most Nazarene universities in the US. Olivet is the only sure one staying conservative, maybe Mount Vernon and Mid-America
@@chuckb5625 i don't know what's happening at PL ... it IS in CA though :) if it comes to a similar split as the Methodists, the faithful will come out of it somehow i.e. GMC. It seems there is a sifting taking place.
@@rachelanne268 Our structure is also different from the UMC. It would be far more challenging for the Nazarenes to flip in the same way the UMC did. Not saying it's impossible, because I know it's not. However, the way "power" is distributed in the Nazarene church makes it harder for the deck to be stacked, so to speak.
I got a Masters of Theology a couple of years ago from Trevecca. I sensed a liberal leaning starting there. I was concerned about how many of the professors liked, loved Walter Brueggemann and Barbara Brown Taylor. g@chuckb5625
These changes all boil down to money. The UMC thinks by being inclusive they'll in turn get more congregants which will equal more money coming in. They are making a big mistake.
Jesus taught that marriage is between a man and a woman and that any Schall practices outside of this is a sin. He was most definitely not silent on homosexuality simply because He didn't use the term.
I'm not Methodist, but it pains me to see the problems my Methodist friends are having with what is happening in ya'll's church. I'm Catholic, I suspect we are headed toward this fight as well.
The UMC did approve a social principle speaking out against polygamy and that it was not "scriptural" and against God's design. They also gave a new social principle regarding what is considered an appropriate age of consent regarding sexual/martial activity...This is still crazy but it didn't go as far as I thought it would...Thankful to be a part of the GMC and to be a student at Wesley Biblical Seminary!
It's not just the votes that were disenfranchised but also the opportunity for holy conferencing and thus the opportunity to attempt to persuade others to vote differently than happened.
@@andrewaddison6270 The GMC is clueless? Since it was created in 1968, there has not been a single year of growth in/for the UMC. It is undeniable that the UMC is going precisely the way of TEC, UCC, PCUSA, ELCA, DOC - all of which are rapidly declining into oblivion. But sure - it's the GMC that's clueless. 🙄
@@andrewaddison6270 The GMC is clueless? Since it's creation in 1968, there has not been a single year of growth in/for the UMC. Not one. It is undeniable that the UMC is going the way of the TEC, UCC, ELCA, DOC, and PCUSA - all of which are rapidly declining into oblivion. But sure - it's the GMC that's clueless. *eyeroll*
The GMC is clueless? Since it's creation in 1968, the UMC has not had a single year of growth. Not one. It's undeniable that the UMC is going the way of the TEC, PCUSA, ELCA, UCC, and DOC - all of which are rapidly declining into oblivion. But sure - it's the GMC that's clueless.
The C in UMC no longer stands for Church. Perhaps it stands for Club? In no way does it represent Christ's Church on Earth. Satan is clearly having a field day with this mockery. Run, don't walk, away from this false church.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
We are leaving UMC. Have been Methodists for over 120 years in my husband’ s family. We didn’t quit them, they quit us. 😢
Greetings from Germany. Thanks for the interview. Really encouraging !
We left. Our new GMC is thriving here in little Waveland, Mississippi!
Our GMC church is thriving also.
We found a new GMC 20 miles from our home here in rural Michigan. Will be visiting there at the end of May (due to our work schedules).
“No introspection” never asking “why did we lose 25% of our churches, why haven’t we had a single year of growth since 1968”.
What I and other people have been just amazed by is the total lack of self-awareness among the leaders in my (former) conference. They were saying and doing things that were Actually, making more churches want to disaffiliate. And they could not even see what they were doing.
[danielhixon8209] Bull shit!!!!!!!!!! They knew exactly what they were doing and I mean that small group of "so-called" leaders who have co-opted your church and then brainwashed those high enough in leadership roles who could have stopped them.
Is what I have read correct, a few years ago this guy (NOT a believer pastor) in Atlanta (was it Atlanta?) stands up before his congregation and declares his support for LGBQ, Transgender, etc. and even threatens those who will "fight the good fight"!! Is that what YOU CALL "lack of self-awareness among the leaders"!! Really!!!!!!! In other words YOU actually think they are believers in God and Christ??
The same has already happened in the Catholic Church and there are those who know "EVIL" when they see it.
Agree
It breaks my heart that the whole system has become so corrupt and dishonest and manipulative while they celebrate their dishonesty.
Amen, Daniel as I well know.
It's like Disney catering to the minority and ended up bombing at the box-office.
Great interview! Thank you Pastor Miller, Pastor Lambrecht and Pastor Renfroe for your service and for this updating podcast.
Keep doing what you do. 😊you and Plain Spoken are great.
It’s going to take several years for all this to shake out and settle. I’m a worship leader in the GMC and my prophecy is that by 2030 the GMC will be a force for the Gospel that will make the Devil shake.
Thank you for this interview.
Churches can’t disaffiliate but congregants can vote with their feet
Put the key under the mat and walk away.
Don’t even put the key under the mat. Let them get their own locks. I will probably have a key “destroying” ceremony when I leave never to return again. I am sad, mad and very distressed!!!! The UMC will never flourish. They have turned their backs on God. As for me, I will let God lead me to the next step.
@suzannescott705 I walked away a year and a half ago when it became clear our elderly rural congregation of about 25 wouldn't disafilliate. While a new GMC recently popped up 20 miles from our home, I've been going to our Russian Orthodox Church 8 miles away since stepping away. They don't mess around with the world and its ways like the UMC allowed to leak in! I have learned SO much in the authentic Orthodox Church. Even John Wesley used many of their original sources to formulate Methodism. For that, I am thankful.
My husband wants us to at least visit the new GMC, but I don't know if they will be as conservative and authentic as Russian Orthodox.
Also, will the Methodists who disafilliated grow or continue to dwindle and age out as the UMC has been doing for 50 years? If they don't grow, they at least escaped the heretical teachings and practices plaguing the UMC, and they won't collapse with it.
I can see the new UMC merging with the Unitarian Universalists in the near future, because that's what they really are--not authentic Methodists in traditional Wesleyanism.
People who are saying to vote with their feet creating a great deal of grief for me. There are few alternatives in my part of the world that have Wesleyan theology. When I was newly saved in the 70 I learned about rural missions and church planting and home missions. We need Wesleyan missions to come to the North East.
@@kelzworldkz9347 I'm not sure why people voting with their feet would cause grief. They are leaving places which only hold an illusion of Wesleyan theology, not actual Wesleyan theology.
To your second point, I agree. I'm a Nazarene in Maine and I looked into alternatives for the Methodists who may be leaving the UMC. Other than the Nazarenes, there are no other consistent options for Wesleyans in this state.
I would love to take classes at WBS. I even looked into it and spoke to someone on staff.
Unfortunately, the costs are outside of my means. One day, I hope to be a student.
So thankful for all you men of God. You have risen to the task. I hope you get some rest soon.
Interesting that the UMC General Conference passed a “reaffirmation” petition this week that allows churches a pathway of grace to return to the UMC if they so desire. I also don’t know of any UMC members who plan to attend - or agitate - at the GMC conference in September. Go in peace, but just go.
For the faithful work of the saints, Rob and Tom, and for those who've gone before them to keep the flame bright in the UMC, the Maxie Dunnam's of the world, we give you our deepest thanks. You've been prayed for in this season, especially tonight.
We left nearly two years ago, and we have never been better. I have two former UMC churches and both are growing and happy
Andy, glad you are the GMC.if I heard you correctly.
Sick over what has become of this denomination, "They all did what was right in their own eyes"
They are "given over"
I am so sad about what has happened to the church I grew up in. Thank you for giving some hope in the big picture!
Those who wanted to wait and see have now seen. It didn't take long.
The second a denomination decides to act extra biblically, it's time is coming to an end. And the UMC did that from day one!
Did you comment on the removal of adultery as a chargeable offense for pastors and celibacy in singleness (formication is now ok).
You asked them about surprises. Here's one: UMC removed adultery as a chargeable offense for clergy.
Choose what your version of marriage is. The UMC covers all.
Eventually these folks will eat their own and stop blaming you guys.
So do the small country churches that have no financial means have no choice but to leave their properties and walk away
I would join Westboro Baptist Church without even a thought before I would join United Methodist
Perhaps the UMC should be renamed United Methodist Cult...just my opinion. My prayers are with you.
Andy where is your school located?
Thanks for this... Nazarene denom is orthodox Wesleyan theology... for now anyway. Dread the day we face umc issues.
Sadly Rachel, we are already there. Just look at the mess at Point Loma, and most Nazarene universities in the US. Olivet is the only sure one staying conservative, maybe Mount Vernon and Mid-America
@@chuckb5625 i don't know what's happening at PL ... it IS in CA though :) if it comes to a similar split as the Methodists, the faithful will come out of it somehow i.e. GMC. It seems there is a sifting taking place.
@@rachelanne268 Our structure is also different from the UMC. It would be far more challenging for the Nazarenes to flip in the same way the UMC did. Not saying it's impossible, because I know it's not. However, the way "power" is distributed in the Nazarene church makes it harder for the deck to be stacked, so to speak.
I got a Masters of Theology a couple of years ago from Trevecca. I sensed a liberal leaning starting there. I was concerned about how many of the professors liked, loved Walter Brueggemann and Barbara Brown Taylor. g@chuckb5625
These changes all boil down to money. The UMC thinks by being inclusive they'll in turn get more congregants which will equal more money coming in. They are making a big mistake.
South Georgia Churches can disafiliate through 2024. Bishop Graves extended it last year to react to GC 2024. See what happens.
Will Rob see my email? J. Harris Moore, Arkansas. We worked on either Church and Society or Religion and Race.
Sounds to me like he's more interested in numbers -- i.e. how many churches follow his preferences --- than what they actually believe.
It is very sad that the Church goes down this path.
Jesus taught that marriage is between a man and a woman and that any Schall practices outside of this is a sin.
He was most definitely not silent on homosexuality simply because He didn't use the term.
I'm not Methodist, but it pains me to see the problems my Methodist friends are having with what is happening in ya'll's church. I'm Catholic, I suspect we are headed toward this fight as well.
The UMC did approve a social principle speaking out against polygamy and that it was not "scriptural" and against God's design. They also gave a new social principle regarding what is considered an appropriate age of consent regarding sexual/martial activity...This is still crazy but it didn't go as far as I thought it would...Thankful to be a part of the GMC and to be a student at Wesley Biblical Seminary!
I don't think 70 more African votes would have helped you win anything lol
It's not just the votes that were disenfranchised but also the opportunity for holy conferencing and thus the opportunity to attempt to persuade others to vote differently than happened.
This is so true. The GMC is super clueless.
@@andrewaddison6270 The GMC is clueless? Since it was created in 1968, there has not been a single year of growth in/for the UMC. It is undeniable that the UMC is going precisely the way of TEC, UCC, PCUSA, ELCA, DOC - all of which are rapidly declining into oblivion. But sure - it's the GMC that's clueless. 🙄
@@andrewaddison6270 The GMC is clueless? Since it's creation in 1968, there has not been a single year of growth in/for the UMC. Not one. It is undeniable that the UMC is going the way of the TEC, UCC, ELCA, DOC, and PCUSA - all of which are rapidly declining into oblivion. But sure - it's the GMC that's clueless. *eyeroll*
The GMC is clueless? Since it's creation in 1968, the UMC has not had a single year of growth. Not one. It's undeniable that the UMC is going the way of the TEC, PCUSA, ELCA, UCC, and DOC - all of which are rapidly declining into oblivion. But sure - it's the GMC that's clueless.
So much damage done by the willful misinterpretation of Saint John's formulation that God is love.
I pray our annual conference wnccumc will disaffiliate as a conference
They cannot legally do that.
Pray for UMC. They’re being led by false prophets. Pray they’ll find their way back to the Light.
The C in UMC no longer stands for Church. Perhaps it stands for Club? In no way does it represent Christ's Church on Earth. Satan is clearly having a field day with this mockery. Run, don't walk, away from this false church.