This is such a refreshing take, I'm glad you made this. The idea of Hammerfell & Skyrim having an alliance to war against the Thalmor sounds beyond epic, maybe a storyline in which the Stormcloaks win and convince even the Argonians that if they truly want isolationism too they'd have to get rid of the Thalmor.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 The argonians will never work for ulfric because he band them for Living insaide the city (windhelm) Ulfrice dosen't care about outsaiders Ulfrice is only going for nords
I’ve been contemplating the idea of an independent Skyrim joining forces with Hammerfell for years now. The Nords and Redguards both understand the existential threat the Aldmeri Dominion is to all Humans on Tamriel. Banning The Worship of Talos was just the beginning of the Thalmor’s Genocidal ambitions. Look at the ethnic cleansing that is taking place in Valenwood for example, and that’s an Elven Province. There is no reason to think they wouldn’t do the same against a non Mer race.
The Empire should've been in full strength by the time of the Great War because the Oblivion Crisis was 200 years ago and the Empire had 171 years to recover and many generations of humans were born to strengthen the Imperial Legions so they cannot say that the Empire is weak when they weren't even born yet.
@@Super50ldier I know I am two years late, but isn't also said that elves recovery was much worse than that of a human? Elves age slower and give birth to less babies than mankind.
Hammerfell and Skyrim's situations are very different. Hammerfell simply didn't stop fighting when the White-Gold Concordant were signed, the Empire officially cutting ties with the province so as to not provoke the Thalmor. The Thalmor agreed to the Concordant in the first place because... well, it's complex but the short version is that while they had the upper hand in the war they didn't have the men to continue it after losing the Imperial city. Hammerfell was less of a threat than the Empire in whole, but the entire point of the peace was to give them time to recuperate so they could finish off the Empire. Burning more men and resources in Hammerfell, which wasn't even strategically important to them, wasn't worth the cost. So they just stopped attacking. Crucially; Hammerfell didn't push back against the Dominion. They're well aware they couldn't actually fight them on their own or they would've kept pushing into their territory. Instead, once there were no longer Thalmor in Hammerfell, they stopped too. Skyrim is now doing to the Empire what Hammerfell was doing to the Dominion. And assuming they win they'll be put in the same position Hammerfell was; unable to actually fight the Thalmor. The best case scenario in repelling the Thalmor's future attack would be joining Hammerfell and the Empire against the Thalmor. Assuming the Empire even survives to fight in the first place. With the Summerset Isles, Valenwood, and Elswyr already gone; Hammerfell and Skyrim now striking out on their own; and Morrowind being a husk of itself, High Rock and Black Marsh (especially so with the Argonians) might not see much reason to stay with Cyrodil. Saying that Hammerfell held off the Dominion isn't really accurate to the political realties of the situation. Comparing it further to Skyrim's situation is pretty much being completely blind to the state of affairs.
@@moonblaze2713Hammerfell beat the Aldmeri Dominion out of Hammerfell, they cut off their supplies and isolated them, largely because Skyrims entry into the war cut off support for the Hammerfell campaign. Yes, Redguards are not racially blessed as the Nords are in the lore to take on Altmer in a confrontational battle, but they are the most skilled in combat and used that skill to pick apart the Aldmeri Dominion in Hammerfell until they could take them on directly. As it is said in Saadia’s quest, the war against the Aldmeri Dominion is still going strong in Hammerfell.
I never actually noticed that! Thalmor Agents don’t appear in Stormcloak controlled areas. Probably because they legally can’t Or because they’ve already been offed by Patrolling Rebels. XD That is such a cool detail!
the thalmor are not just anyone, 3 thalmor mages count as 30 soldiers Not to mention that some of these wizards have powerful spells like storm atronatch
@@defalt_6427 I mean, yeah. But those 3 Thalmor agents are often the bulk of what you see traveling around. If 3 thalmor is equal to 30 soldiers, what about 30+ soldiers in their own home turf? I think the most thalmor I’ve seen traveling together is 4, and I could be wrong about that.
there are just over 30 soldiers in a fort I don't know if I mentioned this, but one of these thalmor guards can summon storm atronatchs, each of which takes care of 6 soldiers. In the lore it is difficult to compare these beings with humans so they are probably stronger or more resistant in the lore than in the game.
@@defalt_6427 Well if we’re talking lore, humans have overcome elves plenty of time, sometimes with magic of their own. Sure that may not apply exactly here, but it’s hardly impossible. Especially if they just get archered before a fight even starts.
Anytime I play through as an Orc, I always join the Stormcloaks because either a. Having the Empire trying to execute me immediately had my Orc ready to join the Stormcloaks (Congrats, you radicalized him) b. Knows the Thalmor persecute and punish anyone who worships Daedra, so that means its a matter of time before Malacath is outlawed. If the Empire was willing to ban Talos, then Malacath is not that far away. c. If the Empire allows Thalmor to drag away Nords in the middle of the night to get tortured and interrogated, then the same will happen to Orcs. d. If my Orc becomes best bros with Ulfric and Galmar, then cutting a deal of leaving strongholds alone and have a cooperation deal in place for invasions then that is a best case scenario.
Right or wrong, he made his choice, and he chose comfort and power over honour and freedom, noble a man he may be, he let his anger and hatred of Ulfric get the better of him, great men make great decisions, and great mistakes.
@@james739123 Honor? Oathbreaker Ulfric, who has sent out assassins against Balgruuf and has his men engage in combat with Whiterun's own forces before it even picks a side, makes the Stormcloaks ''honorable''? Ulfric is the agressor, only a moron sides with the agressor.
The Stormcloaks don't try to kill you, they look cooler, have a better vibe (charging a fortress with 10 guys as the 'mighty legion' is weird), and have the best dialogue in the goddamn game at the end of the questline.
@@Mauricio.23 ''For no reason'' Elves tend towards evil in this setting. Look at Thalmor, look at the Dwemer enslaving Falmer, look at the Dunmer enslaving Argonians, look at the Ayleids enslaving imperials. If it was up to the Thalmor all humans would be slaves, and Elven superiority is held by all Elven tribes. There's a reason for the Nords not to trust elves. Use Wuuthrad.
@@Mauricio.23”no reason”. My brother in Talos, the Thalmor literally want to destroy the world and have been committing genocide in occupied territories. Calling the Nords racist and evil in a world where the Thalmor exist is ridiculous. The Stormcloaks are like your racist uncle Dale. The Thalmor are like the Nazis.
I absolutely agree bro. I’ve been thinking this for years. There’s no reason that Skyrim shouldn’t be independent. The Empire doesn’t actually care about Skyrim, her customs, or her people. The Empire just wants Skyrim and the Nords so that they have more bodies to throw at the Dominion when war time comes. Ironically enough, I am sure that if the Empire simply said to the Nords, “Hey we’re gonna withdraw our troops and grant you your independence so we can send our Legion home and help bolster Cyrodiil’s defenses for the next war. All we ask is that when the next war does break out, you help us fight the Thalmor” then the Nords would agree. Because while I’m sure many of them despise the Empire, I’m certain that they hate elves more, and I know they’d rather help out the Empire than watch Cyrodiil fall to the elves. Plus the Nords love to fight so it’s a win win. But the Empire won’t do that because it’s not about what’s logical or what’s fair to them. They’re an EMPIRE, and they want to maintain their control. They want all possible nations to fly their banner, as Imperialist countries often do. It’s for this reason that the Stormcloaks absolutely must win and break Skyrim free from the Empire’s grasp. I think if an independent Skyrim formed a sort of “anti-Thalmor coalition” with Hammerfell then they stand a high chance of beating the Thalmor, as Nords and Redguards are the greatest warriors in Tamriel. I think you have the most reasonable take and approach to this. I feel that most people don’t think beyond surface level on this topic, they just see how nice Balgruuf is or they see some Nords bullying some Dunmer in Windhelm so they immediately say, “No the Stormcloaks are bad and racist! The Empire is obviously the correct choice! They’re the good guys!”
@@dutchpatriot17 "The imperials can't even defeat Stormcloak militia. An imperial Skyrim is objectively weaker than an independent one." Your argument is null and void if someone can just swap the words around, and it holds just as true. Though you get extra points for using the word 'objective', clearly that makes your point more valid.
@@hatncloak45 No, you can't just swap words around, because what you're stating is a falsehood. The best that the Stormcloaks have to offer are getting massacred by the worst the Empire has to offer. This is all supported by the lore of the game. Speak to Rikke, listen to Galmar and Ulfric. You'd know these facts if you paid attention while playing.
I have hypothesized numerous ways the Thalmor could try to attack Skyrim, and they are not good. 1) if the Thalmor try to land march through Cyrodiil, some Imperials will see this as a provocation and could attack the army, starting the second great war, meanwhile, Skyrim and Hammerfell could see this as an opportunity to gather their two armies and trap the Thalmor in a pincer manoeuvre, a war on three fronts is definitely not going to bode well for the Thalmor. 2) They gather a fleet of ships and go around the east coast, again they'll run the risk of dealing with Hammerfell, whom are noted for their skills as sailors, so they won't be getting supplies from Hammerfell to restock on the journey to Skyrim, then there's High-Rock whom it's hard to say if they'll allow the Thalmor to dock their ships and regain supplies, some might help but High-Rock is known for its kingdoms been devised in their beliefs so some might welcome them while others might want to take a shot at driving them out, it's hard to tell. 3) The set sail to the west coast, then they have to deal with Black-Marsh and Morrowind, the Argonians are not usually happy with outsiders making demands and if the Thalmor tread on the wrong tails so to speak, they could wind up pissing of the Hisst and we'd have another incident of super-tree-sap Argonians tearing what is supposed to be a superior force been torn to shreds, and even if they get past them to Morrowind, the Dark Elfs under the rule of the "Good Daedra" could suspect treachery, much like High-Rock, some might welcome them in, but given the more cut-throat nature of the Dark Elfs, some of the high ranking members of the Thalmor could find a Morag Tong blade in their backs, the best way they could work around this is by offering to help the Dark Elfs enslave the Argonians again, but that's just going to divert resources away from their plan to invalid Skyrim, giving them more time to prepare.
if it weren't for the loose ties to valenwood and elsweir they lack the manpower for another direct war, one altmer loss on their side counts for 100 lost on their enemies side. they can only operate in the shadows. plus they have to worry about pirates, sea monsters and the maomer, and almost taking a lap around Tamriel multiplies those threats ten times over.
If the entire Aldmeri force attacked with all their might, it would still be no use. They must have magic shit of another level, a thalmor mage can summon atronatch storm, each of them must be worth 10 soldiers Not to mention the warriors, the thalmor are naturally taller and consequently even stronger than most races, even the warriors must be very strong. they can take a lot of unique artists, and maybe even partner with the dremora. the empire is weak, so we have little strength, the thalmors were causing a skyrim war to spread and it would work if the dragonborn didn't join one of the sides, aldmeri are stable and very well structured so they must be another level of power. However, if everyone really got together we would probably win, Magnus' staff and the school, the dark brotherhood, the companions and even the dawnguard.
@@defalt_6427Your correct that the High Elves are on an entire different level of magic if your speaking about within the lore. In the lore they’re really the only ones that can use magic willy-nilly like in the game. Nords can only use magic by speaking or “spelling”, Cyrodilians can only do so by dancing (Think Avatar Last Airbender), and the Bretons have to use hand signs (think Naruto or Witcher). Still Nords aren’t weak in their use of magic, if I had to put what I remember reading about them into a picture, then Nords are like artillery when they use magic, where Altmer are like Gatling guns of top tier ammo. And the High Elves have been the most advanced in science and magic for a few millennia now. However no race does war better than the Nords. But your wrong about the Altmer strength, the only Elves that have noticeable strength are the Orcs. Elves are not a physically strong race. The Altmer have height but not the meat like the Nords do. As the physically strongest race goes, that is Nords in base and Orcs when using their berserk ability. Nords are tall and muscular. And the Altmer do give off a air of stability, but remember they’re a Nazi-like authoritarian government, that has more or less kept power by suppressing its people, and it’s partners people. If they lose face it would probably lead to civil war back in the Aldmeri Dominion. As for a direct conflict the elder races (Altmer and Nords) are the most powerful in the lore. It’s not anyone’s surprise that the High Elves kicked Redguard and Imperial ass until the Nords came down from Skyrim and beat them back. This is also what is important to realize, that not only are the Imperials not keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim they also didn’t keep them out of Cyrodil, that was done by Nord blood. By the time Skyrim entered the battle the Imperials were practically beaten. And where the Aldmeri Dominion basically uprooted the Imperials out of their fortresses and cities then planted themselves in them, the Nords did the exact same thing to the Aldmeri Dominion when they went on the offensive. The race that was powerful enough to beat the Imperials out of their homes and defensive strongholds, then got beaten just the same way by the Nords. Like I say, the Nords do war. The Thalmor have every reason to fear a strong Skyrim.
You've just inspired and full on Stormcloak anti-Thalomor play through. I haven't completed the main storyline since 2012. I'm going to do a two-handed build (i've never done before) with Wuuthrad. By my right, Ulfric will be high king. And the eleves will slink back into the hole the came from
Heavy Armour/Two-Handed was my build during my first ever playthrough. It was super fun. And since I was going with the Stormcloaks I decided to be as anti-mage as possible. Damage magicka potions galore, and magic resistance on my armour. And odd setup for an argonian maybe that was part of the appeal
This video and the video " the secret plan of the thalmor" from fudgemuppet is all the information that is needed to see that the stormcloak victory is necessary.
I play as a Khajiit who was born and raised in Skyrim by her adoptive Nord parents, and she lived in Windhelm. I also play as a Stormcloak, and my character deeply worships the Nine Divines. She also hates the Thalmor with a burning passion. Loved your video! 💙
My favorite race is high elf elf yet I still choose the storm cloaks I like to role play that my character was banished from the Somerset isles and wants revenge
I think the Empire is overall better prepared to combat the Aldmeri Dominion as far as resources and manpower, yet the Skyrim seceding is more interesting especially since Hammerfell shares a border with Skyrim and was out in a similar situation as Skyrim. If Ulfric canonically wins the civil war, he could ally with Hammerfell since they share the same sentiments (self rule, beef with Empire and the Dominion). The Redguards actually have Pelinal levels of hate for elves lmao also Valenwood was forced into the Dominion so it's possible it could rebel. This would force the Dominion into war on at least four fronts; Cyrodiil, Skyrim, Hammerfell and Valenwood. A continent wide war in Tamriel storyline is lit af
The Bretons of high rock would more than likely seek and alliance aswell especially since Skyrim and high rock have done throughout the history probably the oldest alliance in Tamriel I think
And the Empire fighting a war in Skyrim, wasting a ton of resources fighting other men helps them how? The Nords would fight beside the Empire in another war, they'd probably even join it
Let's not forget if it comes to light that the Thalmor lied about restoring the moons to the sky, then at a minimum they may lose the khajiit as allies, and at worse then they'll be fighting a war on five fronts
@@anonymousanon6913 Indeed. It's more than likely that they did lie about it however since they know how significant the moons are to the khajiit and the thalmor rely heavily on subterfuge and lies. Only a theory on my part.
I think the one thing people who think of the empire as the better option tend to pay attention to is the future. The idea that if Skyrim is under imperial control, then the empire can regrow its strength and take on the Thalmor when the second Great War happens. The problem with this though is that they fail to notice two critical things. For one the Thalmor have already infiltrated every layer of the empire and are watching their every movements. The second thing they forget is that the empire would’ve lost the Great War had it not been for the White Gold Concordat. The empire quit while they were ahead. The Empire recognized that had the war continued they would eventually be overwhelmed so they called the Thalmor’s bluff. While it appeared that they had the overall upper hand it was only momentarily, mind you the empire also had help from Skyrim at the time. At the moment the empire has all cards stacked against them. Winning the war for them doesn’t change that.
And yet the Empire probably could have won the war, or at least gotten better terms, if they hadn't thrown the gauntlet so quickly. The only reason the Thalmor bent down and let them instead of a full takeover is that they lost their secret weapon, the weapon which was the only reason they could win in the first place. An artifact of Vermina if I recall correctly that let them see the future.
I mean look at the end. Ulfric gives a passionate speech about rebuilding their country to a glorious state so the gods will approve. And the imperial it's just "I am doubling your pay" That's how they got they go them to cheer. I despise the empire
Walking through Skyrim you always see decay and loss around every corner. Sometimes it's just better to tear things down and start over instead of trying to delay the fall. Perhaps that's the reason why the stormcloak victory feels so grand and emotional compared to the imperial one.
One point I've noticed is how the Thalmor call the conflict "The First Great War." People didn't call World War 1 that until after World War 2 because they weren't expecting a second war. However, the Thalmor are clearly already expecting a second war in the future. So you have a growing Aldmari Dominion already planning for a second war and a shrinking empire that's thinks they can win if there's another war. Sorry to say this, but the elves are already five steps ahead of you. The only thing the elves really seem to fear is a Stormcloak victory.
NordicWarriorGaming. General Tullius is naught but a footstool for Elisif and Elenwen. He is a puppet of the Thalmor. Ulfric Stormcloak is dead right. All hail the Stormcloaks, the true sons and daughters of Skyrim!
:) Good Video, Your right on most all of the major parts of that fight and taking sides. Fighting on the Empires side is wanting the Thalmor to control Skyrim, Fighting on the Stormcloak side is wanting Nords in control of Skyrim, Nords (whether you agree with/like Ulfric or not).
Take a shot every time NordicWarrior says "Diplomatic Immunity". Jokes aside, this restored my hope in the Stormcloaks, and they'll have a new sword on their side in my next playthrough for sure.
i always thought it was obvious to fight against the machine, but i dont recall most of it because skyrim came out a decade ago. I have thought about playing it in VR with mods but that thought came around American Thanksgiving and Christmas when all the VR headset were sold out. And i never thought about buying one after, but if Im to revisit skyrim its going to have to be in VR with Mods or no revisiting at all lol.
It's important to remember that Ulfric himself is only considered an "asset" so long as the war remains a stalemate. He is NOT allied with the Thalmor nor is he helping them as some simperials seem to believe. Also, I didn't know that Elisif openly supports the Thalmor. All the more reason to side with Ulfric Chadcloak every playthrough.
@@dutchpatriot17we do and it shows your as much a pawn as we are and if either side won it would be bad for the dominion you clearly haven’t read it yourself
I have said this on different videos and I'll say it here too. By the end of the main storyline the dragonborn is essentially a demigod wielding immense power and daedric artifacts, Parthunaax, your ally, is the new defacto lord of the dragons. So if a liberated independent Skyrim were to get into open war with the Aldmeri Dominion, they'd have the Dragonborn on their side, it stands to reason the Dragonborn through Parthunaax could bring the dragons to bear on those witch-elves, he can count on Odaviing and Durnehviir and push come to shove just bend the will of dragons to fight for him, though I doubt it would come to that. Then you have nine holds worth of hardened Nords willing to win or die and go to Sovngarde because losing isn't an option. Also you can factor in the companions. Then you have Hammerfell who have been subjected to the Dominions bullshit for years, gnawing at their borders. A humbled Cyrodiil would side with Skyrim because it's in their best interests due to the common enemy, their legions, however depleted would help some. High Rock would probably also be willing to help out because Bretons are ultimately men and the Dominion would seek to subjugate them. You made an extremely good point about House Redoran and what's left of Morrowind, I could see them helping. Black Marsh is doing whatever the fuck. All in all, the Dominion is screwed.
Oh and Master Neloth, a Telvanni wizard with centuries of experience and power, with some hefty political weight would also probably be in your corner too
NordicWarriorGaming. There are two books in Skyrim wherein the dark elves prove that they are extremely racist. One is in the college of Winterhold and I think the other one is in Dragon's Reach. Acerthorn has a 2hr+ video discussing why the Stormcloaks are no racist and you should side with them. In it he redundantly proves that the dark elves are racist and the Argonians too.
New to Elder Scrolls? Everyone is racist in the Elder Scrolls. Racism is the belief one race is better than another. And in a fantasy world where there are literally races better at something than others, Bethesda just decided to lean into that. Like from the beginning. As racism goes in the Elder Scrolls. Dunmer are the worst, and Nords are the least. And I’ll watch that video you mentioned because I’ve been waiting for someone to point out the actual situation in Windhelm. It’s not that the Dunmer don’t have the funds to clean up their part of the city, it’s that the N’Wah won’t do the work like good White Apes should. It’s like one of those books points out, the situation is about labour. Even if you look at from a equal opportunity point of view, Windhelm has the most diverse businesses measured by race. Three High Elves, Three Dark Elves, Six Nords. If you realize that it’s really Suvaris Atheron who runs clan Shatter-Shields shipping business, then it’s four Dunmer and five Nords. Which Solitude can’t even compare to. I’m ignoring the farmers because they’re a little away from the city, and the East Empire is technically owned by the Emperor so I’m ignoring it completely. And where as the Argonians aren’t allowed in the in the city, which I personally believe Suvaris is influencing Shatter-Shield, who let’s face it is very influenceable, to influence the rest of Windhelm, they are still given housing and honourable means to support themselves. Not trying to cherry-pick it here, their situation still sucks. But where the Argonians of Windhelm have that the Argonians of Solitude are allowed in but aren’t given housing and have to depend on piracy to get by. As I have said in other forums. It’s not that Windhelm is more racist than Solitude, quiet the opposite after all it is the city of emancipation that when ruling Skyrim fought against slavery, but it’s just that Windhelm is more forthright and honest about it while Solitude is more polite and wears a veil about itself.
@@danielr.golightly38 Who is the Imperial spy in Windhelm? NordicWarriorGaming has a video titled (Rolff Stone-Fist is right. You should watch that video too. Acerthorn defends the Stormcloaks, but doesn't see this point until later in his 2 hr video titled The Stormcloaks are not racist.
I think that the Stormcloaks can win the Empire is pretty much crumbled people forget that when the septum Dynasty died with Martin septim the me Dynasty took its place this Empire currently belongs to the me Dynasty not the septum Dynasty the septum Dynasty is long past
The Thalmor cannot invade Skyrim therefore, they are using the Empire and the WGC as a doorway to set up a large enough occupation to overthrow Skyrims leadership.
@@Saber23 Yes they are. To quote: "Our forces are stretched thin enough as it is, and I have better missions - better agents - to assign them to." From Elenwen's Thalmor Orders, as retrieved from a dead Justiciar at the Shrine of Talos near Lake Illanalta.
Let's not forget the start of Season Unending. The Empire INSIST on Elenwen being present at the negotiations, KNOWING how Ulfric would react. To quote Rikke when Ulfric protests "That didn't take long." Tullius intentionally brought someone whose presence alone was enough to cause conflict. The Empire needs Skyrim INFINITELY MORE than Skyrim needs the Empire. The Dragonborn's also an actual member of House Telvanni, which hopefully gives him even more influence in Morrowind in addition to being on good terms with Redoran.
Skyrim literally relies on the food and resources the Empire provides it. It is not self reliant. The Empire only needs Skyrim for its armies in preparation for the next war. Skyrim needs the Empire more than vice-versa in the literal sense of the term.
@@dutchpatriot17 So why doesn't Hammerfell need the Empire's food? Hammerfell's just as harsh an environment as Skyrim, if not even harsher, so why does Skyrim need them?
@@dutchpatriot17 So why can Hammerfell get the Empire's food without being forced to pander to the Thalmor like Cyrodiil? Why does only Skyrim have to stay part of the Empire to trade with them?
I do believe the storm cloaks should win the civil war as well, but I think it will also become official lore for future Elder Scrolls projects. It is very obvious from past elder scrolls games and lore leading up to elder scrolls 6 that there will be a second Great War. And like you said if the Empire wins it would cause less conflict with the Thalmor. Which from a story and plot standpoint wouldn’t make sense in a lead up to the second Great War. I do not believe this second Great War will be in ES6 but in ES7. A main reason I believe this is because like you said in your video the only providences left of the Empire besides Cyradill is Skyrim and High-Rock. And say the storm cloaks win the only Providence left would be High Rock. Which leads to ES6, which takes place in Hammerfell and HIGH- ROCK. ES6 in my opinion will be very similar to Skyrim which has a main plot but is dominated by a subliminally plot like the civil war involving the Empire/ Thalmor and whatever faction opposing them. ES6 will not be the Great War Bc with how large of a scale the Great War would be we don’t exactly have the right technology just yet to meet the demands of what people would want from the Second Great War. But instead ES6 will focus on in my opinion, Hammerfell and it’s relationship with the Empire (since the Empire abandoned them) and a “Civil War” aspect in High rock. Eventually leading Hammerfell to convince High-Rock of leaving the Empire. Thus leaving only Cryidil left of the Emire and how poetic would it be for that to be one of the first casualties/ battles of the second Great War in ES7.
Elisif is interesting because at certain points she seems like this nice but no power and weak willed, puppet queen but she also has moments where you can see she has lots of ambition almost dangerously so. Dead High King Torygg is similar where it seems he was a good person but had a naïve belief that the empire could be what it once was and he wasn't ready to let go of that because the Nords created the empire. Unfortunately it's not the truth of it's actual state. This is supposedly why he didn't side with Ulfric at the moot years back and did not rebel himself according to Sybille.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 Sybille is definitely sociopathic at points lol. However Elisif seems more like a woman who wasn't meant/qualified to be a high queen and is now by odd circumstance a candidate. I don't root for her at all, as I'm totally against staying with a government that by Ulfrics words "is to weak to rule them but brands them traitors for them wanting to rule themselves." But she also definitely has almost opportunistic dialogue when talking with her about possibly being high queen.
As a redguard im choosing stormcloak once again. Been looking into alot of the lore based around the civil war and never knew the empire basically gave my homeland away to the elves (if im correct) so as a redguard why would I side with them? I always hated that bastard ancano and based on a rp perspective im the dragonborn so I can wipe out some thalmor no problem to assist the true sons of skyrim. Not too keen on the dominion yet but thats another topic. With the help of all the independent nations like hammerfell for example and the allies we made in solstheim I think skyrim will be in good hands with ulfric and the dragonborn at the helm.
If Hammerfell can defend against the Thalmor Skyrim can. Skyrim has such strong warriors they literally have erased an entire race, Skyrim is such a defendable country too, there's only 1 way in through the mountains. The Stormcloaks can literally 300 Leonidas that shit with Ulfrics shouts alone 😂. Empires rise and fall, eso shows us the empire was on its knees. It happens. In real world direct comparisons are America and British Empire, or Greeks and Egyptians, or Roman Empire and Barbaric Germanians. Am important factor I see, is Ulfric is like Trump. Yes. Trump. The people used to hate it, but now we need him.
the argument of his challenge to toryg , ulfric formally challenged toryg and toryg accepted, using the ancient nord hero thuum which is ulfrics own spirits vital essence, which in a nordic custom is not cheating to me, he defeats toryg, this is fair to me by skyrim law, but if it wasnt, i argue that the laws needed to be broken, under toryg and the new thalmor\empire conglomerate empire , countless nord families are being destroyed and brutally murdered simply for being nords and worshipping talos, both for their religion and race, because talos worship is the nord way, nord tradition, if you want to follow in your nord ancestors you worship talos, being subject to imprisonment torture and execution , empire loyalists expect me to allow my families to be killed and have faith they will betray their masters one day? empire loyalists argue that the stormcloaks help the thalmor by taking out the empire, because the thalmor will now only have to deal with the stormcloaks, but i could argue the very same thing 1000 years earlier that the empire shouldnt be fighting the aldmeri dominion because the other two factions will gain from that and become too strong from that, its the same reasoning, and it proves the empire loyalists hypocrites. the empire loyalist will suggest a solution that we accept the thalmor empire watch our families die, hope the empire will betray their masters one day . i say, with the spirit of skyrim, i do not need a lesser tyranny to take out a greater tyranny for me, skyrim belongs to the nords, with righteous claim for we the brave spirit of skyrim if we find our selves without allies without the empire against the thalmor alone in this fight, it will not stop me. a stormcloak skyrim is a greater nation of righteous rule, we will not dip our tongues in honey drink milk and lick the behind of a weaker empire of tyranny for its help. alone or together i fight for the families and freedom skyrim and her people .
I don't even drink. I'd love to have a beer with you bro. We are two dudes who love Boxing and Skyrim. Bet we could have endless conversations that no one would know what were talking about 😂
It dose say that a stormcloak victory is to be avoided it also says that a imperial victory would harm there position in skyrim greatly something that was failed to be mentioned
Wrong. It says "Ulfric's death would have greatly increased the chance of an Imperial victory, which would ultimately hurt our goals in Skyrim" As I clearly explained in the video, this is because the war must remain indecisive so that the Empire continues to divert recourses and manpower to Skyrim. This does not mean that the Thalmor want the Stormcloaks to gain advantage or to win, or that they don't want or expect the Empire to win in the long run. If the Empire wins, things continue as normal and they have to reorganise while continuing to give diplomatic immunity to the Thalmor. If the Stormcloaks win, the Thalmor get completely exiled from Skyrim and their plans are fully thwarted.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 Bruh you can't even quote the Dossier right. ''Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim.'' An Imperial victory is the worst-case scenario for the Thalmor.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953he goes in all the Skyrim comments and makes himself a fool too many times I’ve won arguments with him before he’s honestly a freak I find him for fun at this point 😂
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953he goes in all the Skyrim comments and makes himself a fool too many times I’ve won arguments with him before he’s honestly a freak I find him for fun at this point 😂
Edit here... I enjoy rolling in Skyrim as a vamp, love the DLC and all. That being said. Try playing as a High Elf who Hates the Thalmor. A High Elf vamp lord making trouble for the Empire. Is fun.. and yeah, Wow.. got a vid where someone knows what's going on in Skyrim! Sub and Like
Correct me if I'm wrong... but From what I've heard the thalmor only managed to defeat the empire because it was a surprise attack... The empire wasn't expecting a invasion at that point in time... Whatever the thalmor try this time it'll have to be something different because that won't work this time... Which is why they want the war to go on as long as it can... They know they don't have enough bodies to fight anybody... Maybe they could fight the empire I doubt even that... But if they get their enemies to fight each other then they could pick off the "victor" or more accurately the side that lost less
also Dominion likely used Illusion magic and Considering during the Obilvion crisis Mages guild and Magic user where blamed for it Empire likely whent on a witch hunt of mages weakening their defences from magical attacks. Plus Necromancy and Deadra Worship being Fully Banned in Cyrodill rather then Tolerated. Sad dark elf noises.
While I agree with some of the stuff stated I believe that the Stormcloaks are largely missing the point. So for starters the Empire actually defeats the Thalmor at the Battle of the Red Ring where they hang the general Lord Nariffin on the White Gold Tower. They, however, have a decimated army that could not sustain further conflicts with the Thalmor at that time. Titus II signs the treaty, which is just the same ultimatum that was given to him on the 30th of Frostfall. This included large sums of tribute, southern hammerfell, and the outlawing of Talos worship. During the closing of the Great War the Reachmen, who had ruled themselves successfully for two years, we under threat from Ulfric as he led a band of militia men to recapture the city for Skyrim. Ulfric used the Thu’um to achieve this victory and would commit several war crimes in the city. The ex Jarl of the reach would try to return to his place as jarl but Ulfric would only accept this if he allowed free worship of Talos in his hold. The Jarl would accept and so would the Imperials who were with him, hoping that the Thalmor would not know that they were allowing Talos worship in Skyrim. The Thalmor would figure out, however, and would arrest Ulfric after the incident. Ulfric would “escape” custody and return to Windhelm to take his place as Jarl. The High King of Skyrim, Istlod, had died after Ulfrics return and a moot was held as a formality with the rise of High King Torygg. Ulfric would use the moot to argue for Skyrim’s independance. Some time after Torygg rose to High King Ulfric would return to Solitude yet again but this time to challenge the boy king for his throne. Torygg respect for Ulfric, as he was a hero of the Great War, and most likely would have listened to him had Ulfric came with good intentions. Ulfric would challenge Torygg for his throne and would use the Thu’um as his means to kill him. Ulfric would flee the city and the civil war would begin. The Thalmor have no interest in either side winning. The Imperials winning would be a huge threat to Aldmeri power on the continent and would allow them to build up and pose a threat in the next war. The Thalmor would rather have the province divided as this would make a easy victory for the Dominion. To move onto Hammerfell its important to note the factors which were at play during their conflict. The Dominon armies like stated before had been destroyed at the Battle of the Red Ring. The Redguards were also let go from the Legion to return to their homeland and defend it which gave Hammerfell battle hardend soliders to fight. Hammerfell also has access to Stone Wizards and Cannons which are two things Skyrim would lack. Skyrim is also a very weak province by itself. Most of its population are dumb farmers who aren’t well trained. Skyrim is also lacking in food production and in industry as well which are two things they gain from being in the Empire. Especially since they have, by this point, been in the empire for close to 634 years. The Thalmor also have a much stronger military now which would be able to defeat a newly independant Skyrim. One quick point you mentioned in the video about the Imperial soldiers. To quote the star wars movies, what they are saying it true from a certain point of view. The Empire is the sheild that is guarding mankind from being overran by the elves. While yes Justiciars are in Skyrim, that is the effect of losing a war, they are not able to have total authority in the Empire. We know at the very start of the game Tullius refuses to give Ulfric to the Thalmor at the gates. In Diplomatic Immunity you can have Tullius write a letter for Thoralds release which the Thalmor cannot refuse. Onto the Empire being dead thats not entirely true. Morrowind is both a part of the Empire and isn’t a part of the Empire. Specifically House Redorans land is more so part of the Empire, though its not all that valuble. Red Mountain decimated the province so its not that useful. Black Marsh isn’t either since the only trade it actually has is eldrich god tree sap, and dock workers. The only really important province its lost has been Hammerfell and possibly Summerset, though the elves have always hated mankind. Speaking of Mankind, my last point. Mankind is protected by the 9th divine, Talos. Mankind cannot be destroyed without Talos losing divinity. The Empire is also protected by Talos since he is, even though its highly complicated, the founder of the Empire. Dividing the nations of man would only destroy any hope of victory against the threat that is the Thalmor. Other than that it was nice to see a video that isn’t the same lame stormcloak arguments, the video was based and chadpilled, though knowing the lore I would have to disagree. Sorry for the long reply though, elder scrolls is just that epic.
@@Dan-qq6hy well thats all depending on the goal of your character. Different outlooks on where you want Tamriel to be can influence your decision. If we are talking purely based on who could defeat the Thalmor then the Empire. The Empire just has far more resources, more experienced soldiers, better generals, and the infastructure to make final victory possible. The Empire would be far more prepared in a hypothetical Second Great War than they were in the first one which would make much of the early losses in the first war minimized in the second. The Empire did much better after they were organized which aided them at the Battle of the Red Ring. The Stormcloaks could only be a viable choice if Ulfric helps the Dragonborn take the Imperial throne. Bethesda seems hesitant to allow previous main characters a chance to be important after their story is over so this is unlikely however not impossible. Also its possible that the Empire is taken over by the Dragonborn if he joins the Legion as well. With the backing of the army he could easily do this even if Titus Mede II has a viable heir. So overall I do believe the Empire has a better chance at defeating the Thalmor on their own than that of an independant Skyrim ruled by Ulfric.
Neither is the correct choice. As the other individual states in the thread, the decision lies with the Dragonborn. The only reason you as the player exists, is to make a decision regarding Alduin, it's more likely that you would foster a temporary treaty for it like you do in the game if you progress the main quest far enough. After that it just stays a stalemate. It's safe to assume that in actual lore, the Dragonborn stops Alduin, considering there's a new Elder Scrolls game on the way, supposedly. If that's the only continuity of lore for the next game, it's safe to assume that your main bad guy is the Aldemeri Dominion. Which means they took Skyrim while it was still under a civil war for however long.
After seeing majority of Skyrim fanbase being pro-Imperial oriented, it is so calming seeing sombedy openly taking the opposite attitude. Yes, that quote about Empire defending Skyrim from Dominion is such huge heap of crap Greybeards could build upon it a new monastery to be in even greater seclusion, and just blatant proof of of brain-dead Imperial propaganda. Also, another thing Empire-lovers tends to say often is that without the Empire, ununified Tamriel has no chance against Dominion. This seems to me like clear example of their messianic complex, because why the Oblivion couldn't independant parts of Tamriel cooperate as an alliance? In Second Era, part of Black Marsh, several Houses of Morrowind and kingdom of eastern Skyrim made an alliance called Ebonheart Pact, and with it, succesfully repelled Akaviri invasion and even stood their ground in Three Banner War (up untill that fool Tiber Septim had to sc*ew things up and conquer his Third Empire). Ebonheart Pact was supposed to become Tamriel Pact and its purpose was to assure independance of it's countries. The only reason they wanted to occupy Ruby Throne and put their member as new emperor was to make basically "a blocation" for a throne - making sure, that no true emperor ever takes that place and jeopardize independance of Tamriel's territorries. And again, I ask, why should not a Second Ebonheart Pact be formed, with Stormcloak Skyrim and independant Hammerfell, Morrowind and Black Marsh? The Empire is not needed (expecially Empire that is vassal to Dominion), the Pact suffice in its role more than enought, and there are no risk of misusage of its position to opress its citizens, something that all three Empires in past did.
The Empire does defend Skyrim from the Dominion, it's the only thing standing between the Dominion and world domination. Alliances are less stable and less effective militarily than a single state is. Especially one with a military as well trained as Cyrodiil's. Even the Ebonheart Pact that you are such a fanboy of, was barely standing. Not one province fully committed to it, and the tensions between the three races remained obvious throughout its existence. The Ebonheart Pact was also nowhere to be found when Tiber Septim showed up, and literally believed that Mannish races are unfit to rule. Neither Hammerfell, Black Marsh, nor Morrowind stands anything to gain from such an alliance. The Stormcloaks are weak and unpredictable - Hammerfell would gain nothing from allying with it. Morrowind and Black Marsh are still at war, and that's ignoring Ulfric's racist treatment of Argonians and Dunmer alike.
@@dutchpatriot17 Oh boy, what a moment. Chief white knight of the Empire calls me a fanboy, I should probably feel insulted if it wouldn't be so goddamn funny. And to top it of, you come out with that stupid would-be-argument "blah blah Stormcloak racist blah blah". Honestly, I really don't know if you are just troll, or if you are really such abysmally spineless lackey-minded person that feels so comfortable if dominated by some super strong power. Either way, you are not even worthy of respect, and that makes your "arguments" invalid in my eyes.
@@mausolus8466 In other words, you admit that you can't form a counterargument so you resort to ad hominems. Can't expect too much clear thinking from Stormcloaks now can we? Classic Stormcloak ignorance of the lore.
@@dutchpatriot17 *Replying to your big post on this video that cannot be replied too because of too many replies* The dossier doesn't say Ulfric is or ever was a *direct agent* . The language is intentionally ambiguous. You are being dishonest in your discussions by acting as though it says something it doesn't. You are the definition of a fanboy- not the people you called fanboys.
Old school Nords are about death before dishonor. Politics be damned..win or lose isnt their first goal..living and dying with honor is. Thats my guys. Good video.
The Empire tried to take my head. Well then, they fucked around and they found out. No other reason needed, never liked Ulfric and he is a dick, but he didn't try to kill me. Galmar, yeah I'd take him out though
What bothers me about the Empire is it's army is massive yet it was destroyed by the Thalmor on their own land. You also have to worry about keeping the Oblivion gate closed because no one of Dragon blood has the amulet of kings. The Dragonborn will become the new Emperor likely and it'd like to have Ulfric as High King beside me. All of Skyrim will be with you.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 Always feel like the Dragonborn will become high king when the moot meets as he has so much credibility behind him. Possibly leading to Emperor. The Dragon Blood gives you a claim. I always believe as soon as I came to power I would bring the Jarl back to Whiterun
when Martin septim became an Avatar of Akatosh he closed all the gates to Obilvion and restored the Barriers fully meaning Akatosh is at his Strongest and maintains the barrier rather then having the septims do it. some Deadra do get though and Artifact but less so then before it also may explain why some deadra are forggoten about as their hold over Nirn deminises. but yea Dragoborn will likely be Emperor again seeing how it will sate his/her will to Dominate like all dov.
How I'm years late finding this, I don't know but I'm glad I did . Two things always put me on Team Stormcloak. First: The banning of Talos worship to kiss the backsides of the Thalmor who seem to hate every other race anyway and want everyone to be subjugated to them. It would be like telling a Christian that we "cannot" worship Jesus Christ (our God in the flesh) because the Thalmor "say so". Insulting the hero-god of the Nords is far beyond the proverbial slap in the face and would turn any devoted/patriotic Nord against the "edict" quickly. Second: One line by the Imperial Captain: Hadvar- Captain what should we do? He's not on the list. Captain: Forget the list. He goes to the block! Me/My Character *Mentally* : Okay, so you're about to kill me because *reasons* even though you just admitted to my face that I'm not on your list of those to be executed.... but you're going to do it anyway because you don't give a *bleep* . Okay. See you later. Meanwhile Ralof and his family are friendly, and even give me a key to their home so I have somewhere to stay if I need it.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 You ever hear of gaming sins videos? We could discuss the sins of Mortal Kombat and GOD OF WAR. The latter is an in-depth dive into the pre-flood world. The Nephalim are one of my favorite subjects.
Even without Skyrim, the Empire would still have plenty of Nords to support and fight for it. Sounds crazy, I know, but just hear me out.. During the American revolution, the attitude that the colonists had regarding the war was nearly even. 1/3 supported gaining independence. 1/3 remained loyal to the crown. While the remaining third were neutral, not caring one way or the other. After the war, those loyal to Great Britain fled and went to places still part of the empire: Canada, the Bahamas, etc. In Skyrim, it would essentially be the same. Half the population supported the Stormcloaks, while the other half remained loyal to the Empire. In the event of a Stormcloak victory, there would be a mass exodus of Nords loyal to the Empire. We’re talking thousands upon thousands- if not more! These Nords would naturally resent the Stormcloaks, but they’d especially hate the Thalmor, who were arguably the root of their troubles. Meaning that even though the Empire loses Skyrim, they at least have an entire population of Nords fanatical and out for blood to fight for them. So in the long run, the Thalmor would be encircled by enemies: Skyrim, Hammerfell, and, of course, what’s left of the Empire. In short, they’re screwed.
Being part of a proud race, with ties to your homeland, doesn’t necessarily mean every Nord will stay. Even proud people would be bound take flight, if they were in fear for either theirs or their loved one’s lives. If either of you would like, I’m willing to give examples in history where that sort of thing actually happened…
Most imperials say the stormcloaks are Nazies, i don't know but fighting for independence doesn't seem racist to me but stoping people from warshiping there religion and destroying there culture because it is "not Civilised" doesn't put them in the best position to say that
They have a lot in common if you think about it. Both groups were on the losing side of a "Great War" which ended with having an unfair treaty imposed upon them. They came home, and instead of being able to move on and process their traumas, they find the home they fought for corrupt, impoverished, decadent, and run by soft individuals who managed to profit off of the war.
@@ailius1520That's no excuse for the monstrous things they did, nor does it undo the legacy of wretchedness and pain they left for the planet and the human race as a whole.
You put a lot of faith in the fact that hammerfell fend off the altmer, but one of the large reason why hammerfell won was cause the Altmer had so many of their high ranking commanders and fighting force killed in the battle for cyrodill weaking teh Altmer significantly, hammerfell againt full power Altmer stand no chance, and that goes for Skyrim as well.
We have to admit the Thalmor are pretty smart. I think they honestly knew they couldn't beat the empire outright and so demanded hammerfell and banning of Talos to ostracize the redguards and nords from the empire, the two human races that hate elves the most (redguards hate elves cause of the sinestral elves) and are the greatest human warriors. With the loss of these two provinces the empire is a shadow of it's former self. But i disagree with Galmar, i think the septim empire died with Martin Septim, and is know the cyrodillic empire not fit to represent all men in tamriel.
“When Morrowind sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They're not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing destruction spells. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people”
1:50 Talos is a more central deity to the Imperials than he'll ever be to the Nords. Nords even refused to attend Chapel Sermons in his Great Cathedral in Bruma, refused to worship him alltogether, until sometime in the Fourth Era when they converted. 7:09 Actually, that's exactly what the Dossier states, at least, up until the Markarth Incident, when he became uncooperative as a result of his arrest. 8:27 Empire supporters are fully aware that the Civil War benefits the Thalmor... Ulfric and his men are ignorant of it. 9:50 It's canon that the Empire was only able to survive the Great War because of the Concordat - Hammerfell's survival is no different. The Dominion no longer had a motivation to conquer Hammerfell when it made peace with the Empire. 10:16 The Empire is what keeps the Dominion out of Skyrim - because without the Empire, Skyrim would be invaded by the Dominion, sooner or later. Being unable to tell the Dominion apart from the Thalmor says more about you than them. 10:50 Remember how that same dossier literally states an Imperial victory harms the Thalmor? 12:12 The Justiciars do not have the legal authority to do whatever they want, just because they do does not prove they have the legal authority. 16:01 Impossible? Winterhold, Eastmarch, and the Rift are all Stormcloak territory, how exactly does a Stormcloak victory make these things impossible? It does not. 17:50 Factually incorrect. When Titus Mede finally took the throne, the Empire consisted of little more than Skyrim and 7/9th of Cyrodiil... They only lost Valenwood due to a coup while the Empire was still recovering from the aftermath of the Oblivion Crisis. They reclaimed Hammerfell, High Rock, Elsweyr, Leyawiin and Bravil. Only losing Elsweyr due to the Void Nights and Hammerfell due to the Concordat... Which only had to be signed because the Empire had been involved in many wars just before the Great War broke out, alongside several other factors. 19:28 Hammerfell acknowledges that the Empire is needed to truly defeat the Dominion, they won't back the Stormcloaks unless the Empire does. The Redoran don't care for either party, Empire or Dominion, so I strongly doubt they'd get involved. All in all, the arguments are rather poor, Skyrim-centered, and short-sighted. It doesn't matter if Skyrim has its freedom when that freedom will be removed due to the Empire failing to beat the Dominion in the next war. The Stormcloaks struggle against the Empire's worst... That should say something. The Empire is the only chance to beat the Dominion.
Amen brother! The empire is not perfect (nor should it be cuz that would be lazy writing) but it’s better than the alternatives, I used to be a stormcloak supporter until I actually looked at the lore of the game and came to the similar conclusions and points that you made.
You need to watch the video "the secret plan of the thalmor " from the Chanel fudgemuppet. The video will show that the danger of not openly worship Talos is greater then do not have a empire.
Very well thought-out and articulated video. I played as a Nord on my first playthrough and sided with the Stormcloaks for obvious Nord-nationalist reasons, then on my second, played as an Imperial who sided with the Empire for obvious Imperial Nationalist reasons. I'm on my third playthrough as a Dunmer who is siding with the Stormcloaks. I know that will surprise a lot of people because of "look how the Dunmer are treated in Windhelm, Ulfric's own city!" Well, my character is a refugee and escaped with Ralof, because it was the Imperials who ordered her to be beheaded simply for being at the wrong place at the wrong time and was unaware of how bad the Dunmer are treated until she arrived in Windhelm for the first time. There's a Dunmer farmer (I forget his name) who argues if the Dunmer start being productive and stop sitting around feeling sorry for themselves, the Nords will come to respect them and treat them better. Also after hearing a drunken bigot like Rolff Stone-Fist complain about Dunmer not siding with the Stormcloaks, she realizes respect is earned and not given, if the Dark Elves want to be accepted by Skyrim's Nords, they will have to earn it by fighting for Skyrim. And as pointed out in this video, the Dunmer and Altmer hate each other. Rolff's beliefs that the Dunmer are in league with the Thalmor may be baseless to anyone who isn't him, but they still have to show people like him otherwise. Once the war is over, my character will use their status as a dragonborn and as a high-ranking officer in the Stormcloak army to leverage better treatment for the Dark Elves. And also make the argument: "Who did more Skyrim's freedom? Me, a Dark Elf who fought dragons, Imperials, and Thalmor, or Rolff, a petty drunk who stayed in Windhelm and talked shit about my people and the Argonians?"
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 They literally worship Namira, the prince that most of all, exemplifies degeneracy and decay. The forsworn would be radical leftists in the modern day, and as someone who doesn't like radical leftists, I don't like them.
You make fair points, but I still choose to side with empire. I don’t believe that Ulfric is a murderer like other people, I even have an endless amount of respect for him, and what he stands for, but in spite of all that, I do think he’s a fool, who refuses to see the bigger picture.
Few things the NPCs always say. - But the gray quarter Its a place that refugees live. Altmer have integrated with the nords in Windhelm hell theres even a Hlaalu farm with Nord farm hands. -the Argonians live outside the walls. As opposed to living in Windhelm with the Dunmer after their nation had just attempted an invasion of Morrowind not 200 years ago? The Dunmer won't integrate with the Nords and they haven't had a war for over a standard Dunmer lifetime. What do you think they're going to do to the Argonians?
@@dalestevenson8947 Yeah Skyrim takes a lot of influence from it. Personally I am a born again Christian so Pagansim of any kind has never appealed to me unless its used well in fiction.
I never bought the whole 'Skyrim needs the Empire against the Thalmor!' Nords conquered much of Tamriel before and there's no reason to believe they were any stronger back then than they are now. Proof of their strength and of an independent' Skyrim's ability to fend for itself would be the Stormcloaks kicking the Empire out of Skyrim.
The Nordic Empire wad built once, collapsed, and never recovered. The Stormcloaks are getting massacred by the worst the Empire has to toss their way, in what world are they a bigger threat to the Dominion than the Empire?
@@dutchpatriot17 '''The Empire'' is just Cyrodill, and they've essentially lost every conflict they've fought in recent history. In what world are *they* a threat to the Dominion at this point? lol The Empire has only empowered the Thalmor in Skyrim by letting them explore the country with full diplomatic immunity in search of powerful artifacts (Dragon Masks, Staff of Magnus, they also tried to get Stalhrim in Solstheim) Stormcloak take-over is simply the solution. Kick out the Thalmor from Skyrim ASAP to weaken the Dominion.
@fartz3808 I just want to add something I see as overlooked in the arguments. The imperial general Surrenders very easily the moment you enter the castle. Ulfric goes down blade in hand. This to me just shows you the empire will surrender or break to the Thalmor without much effort. They became shattered, and fragile during the Great War. We are fighting or assisting imperial remnants. Not the Empire from morrowind and oblivion.
@@talizorah6898 Tullius literally fights back, what are you on about? Furthermore, there is nothing to gain from killing an experienced General like Tullius. Letting him live is the strategical thing to bear the Dominion. But of course, Stormcloaks and strategy are a contradiction.
Bathesda may be good for making shit games nowadays but they literally cooked up a storm of great writing with the Stormcloak rebellion. One and a half decade in people are still torn between the two.
The Empire has lost it's leadership, it's founding principle, and most of it's land and elite forces. It is a hollow, broken shell, and there is not even the Akatosh covenant anymore to give it legitimacy. Even if they crush the Stormcloak rebellion, Skyrim will be an occupied province at best, the trust of the Nords and Redguards is irreperably damaged. High rock is the only somewhat stable province left, and I'm sure the Breton kingdoms would rather ally with an independant Skyrim and Hammerfell, if they are isolated from an already weak and politically subjugated Cyrrodil. Heck, even the former Imperial heartlands would be better off in the next war if they let their provinces become independent, and just enter a coalition against the Aldmeri threat. Trying to keep together the Empire would just expend the last strength of men on trying to heal something that is already dead. A quick Stormcloak victory is the best path to the survival of men and their homelands, the preservation of Talos, liberation for Elsweyr and Valenwood, and even preventing the unmaking of mundus itsself.
The empire is the last thing left that the Nords have of Talos, to turn their backs on the empire that Talos founded before ascending to godhood, is to turn their back on Talos himself! Tiber septim would not have wanted this, he was a warrior and a strategist himself who possessed great power, but power alone doesn’t found the empire, and unite all of mankind under one banner, smart thinking, pivotal advice from intellectual people, guidance from those who seek and don’t seek what you desire, are all important parts of what made Tiber septim who he was, and that’s what the Nords of Skyrim aren’t understanding. The Empire is doing what they have to do to rebuild their forces and make adjustments so that they can take up arms to achieve victory, they were very close the first time, and now the dominion are comfortable, they are under the impression that they have everything in the bag, and are banking on the Empire and Rebellion alike being severely weakened, in order for them to achieve victory and gain ultimate control over Tamriel, however the empire know this, and are laying low and rebuilding, and remodelling their military to eradicate the Thalmor, it’s likely that the Thalmor are too powerful to be bested by the stormcloaks, and are merely using them to weaken the empire, however what they can’t have is an empire at full capacity, which is why elenwen went to helgen to attempt to intervene in keeping ulfrics head off the block, if she feared the rebellion, she’d have let him die, what she was fearing was having no gators that are the stormcloaks at the river shore slowly eating away at the land habitants that are the empire , as without this, the empire can slowly become and/or surpass, the superpower that nearly defeated the dominion in the first war, and the terms of the white gold agreement, as stated by the imperial legion to the player, is nothing more than a temporary strategic yield, to keep the Dominion comfortable and happy where they are in the summeset isle, where their prying eyes can’t see all of what’s going on in Cyrodiil. Lastly, Ulfric is no king, he’s a coward, he murdered someone who admired and looked up to him, challenged him to a battle he knew he’d easily win and still used the ancient power of the thuum to mangle torrygg before ending his life, worse off Torygg was under the assumption Ulfric was arriving to suggest a moot or make his case again for Skyrim to deviate from the empire and become independant, to which the woman who raised Torygg, and was the blue palaces Court wizard, said Torygg would’ve likely agreed with. But no, kill someone who’s basically a child to you, In his early 20’s while you’re a 54 year old war hero, wielding second to none skills in warfare among nords and possessing a power that no other living man asides from the Dragonborn hero and the greybeards have access to, doesn’t seem very honourable to me, if anything, Torygg died with honour, he was a true Nord in this scenario, he knew he was f**ked, and still agreed to fight, and ended up being killed, when not all duels had to end in death, and it’s likely that had he been spared, he’d have happily stepped down as high king , that would’ve been ulfrics rightful claim to the throne, a fair contest between two men’s sword arms, both live to see the next moot and in consideration of the duel, and what it was being fought for, the jarls would likely have all agreed to have Ulfric sat on the high kings throne, but his sadistic killling of An inexperienced king, who was no warrior, who was sat on the throne by way of circumstance, at the forefront of an issue bigger than what he was equipped or experienced enough to deal with as a man in his early 20’s, shows a lot about Ulfric, this was a power hungry move.
@@zrugel yeah bro, people who understand strategy and timing realise that the stormcloaks are a means to an end and are the easiest faction out of the two for the Thalmor to defeat, an empire who has rebuilded and re-strategised actually stands a chance of winning. The stormcloaks are nothing but a parasite that the Thalmor are using to eat away slowly at the empires numbers, while exhausting themselves, if the two sides keep fighting, eventually there’ll be no rebellion, but also, the empire will be too weak to ever hope to re muster and wage war for ages and it’ll just take them even longer to regain strength, what the Nords like Galmar and Ulfric don’t realise is that the empire signed the white gold agreement as a temporary truce to stop war, those conditions aren’t indefinitely in place, of course the empire isn’t openly admitting this, and it’s a part of anterior motive, but hey, the Thalmor also are funding the empires weakening by giving weapons secretly to the stormcloaks, armoring their troops, that’s why balgruuf was shocked to know the stormcloaks had catapults, they didn’t have the means to buy all that on their own, so the empire is calculating, cunning, and playing it wise
All that is under the assumption the Empire is run by people at odds with the Thalmor which isn't something I think is true. There might be old generals like Tullius but hes not in charge, the Elder Council is and from the DB quest I get the impression they are Thalmor puppets. Lasty, the idea that Skyrim would be unable to fight the Thalmor has already been proven wrong with the case of Hammerfell
@@anonymousanon6913 wrong, hammer fell won largely due to their terrain being harsh and dangerous, they knew how to use the terrain to their advantage and then wrecked the dominion and drove them out once the terrain had crippled their ranks, Skyrim is relatively easy to enter and fight on the terrain
The Stormcloaks have the right idea, wrong leader. The Imperials have entirely erased their old pantheon and culture, so Skyrim should try to regain its old pantheon of Shor. Ulfric isn’t worthy of the title of High King because he misused the voice. Regardless of the trial by combat was fair, the voice isn’t supposed to be used for that. He lost any claim to the throne after abusing the voice like that and disrespecting the old nordic culture.
I see where you're coming from but I disagree. Jarl elisif does imply that she supports them, but have you ever thought she's lying to you? The whole plan the empire has is to play on the elves' arrogance. What's the best way to do that? Make them think they've won and strike when they are complacent. You never know who is listening in that situation. Freedom is worth fighting for, I agree with ulfric on that, but skyrim fighting on its own against the thalmor like hammerfell will only get more nords killed that don't need to be. A counter to that might be, nords are dying anyway, true but would they be if you stopped fighting back and stuck to the plan. Observe talos worship in secret, keep it to yourself and we bide our time. We want the thalmor fat and lazy, only makes it easier to kill them. Like general tullius says, there is another war coming. Beat them back decisively on a unified front. If they are complacent enough they can be pushed back to the Summerset isles. In my mind, the only difference between the storm cloaks and the imperials is timing and patience. One has it and one does not, I think that's pretty clear
I get what you say is truth but what is also truth however is as you say as well is a divide group of men being the stormcloaks and the empire is too easy for the thamor to do whatever they want too
It’s also worth noting that, Alvor mentions that the thing about Thalmor taking away Skyrim citizens didn’t start until Ulfric and his Stormcloaks started making a fuss about it. So if that’s to be believed, it would mean that initially, the Empire did keep the Thalmor out of Skyrim, but then the Stormcloaks ruined that.
This is such a refreshing take, I'm glad you made this. The idea of Hammerfell & Skyrim having an alliance to war against the Thalmor sounds beyond epic, maybe a storyline in which the Stormcloaks win and convince even the Argonians that if they truly want isolationism too they'd have to get rid of the Thalmor.
Good idea. The Argonians would be a powerful ally.
High Rock would most likely join that alliengence
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953
The argonians will never work for ulfric because he band them for Living insaide the city (windhelm)
Ulfrice dosen't care about outsaiders
Ulfrice is only going for nords
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 I don't think the Nords would want to ally themselves with Argonians
@@thebk247 High Rock was part of the Empire before and during the Great war and still is part of the Empire.
I’ve been contemplating the idea of an independent Skyrim joining forces with Hammerfell for years now. The Nords and Redguards both understand the existential threat the Aldmeri Dominion is to all Humans on Tamriel.
Banning The Worship of Talos was just the beginning of the Thalmor’s Genocidal ambitions. Look at the ethnic cleansing that is taking place in Valenwood for example, and that’s an Elven Province.
There is no reason to think they wouldn’t do the same against a non Mer race.
The Empire should've been in full strength by the time of the Great War because the Oblivion Crisis was 200 years ago and the Empire had 171 years to recover and many generations of humans were born to strengthen the Imperial Legions so they cannot say that the Empire is weak when they weren't even born yet.
@@Super50ldier I know I am two years late, but isn't also said that elves recovery was much worse than that of a human? Elves age slower and give birth to less babies than mankind.
@@TerribleScroll I see what you mean
If Hammerfell can fend off the altmery, I dont see why Skyrim cant. The empirials are getting in the way if humanity has a chance to survive.
I agree. The Empire is holding Skyrim back.
Hammerfell and Skyrim's situations are very different. Hammerfell simply didn't stop fighting when the White-Gold Concordant were signed, the Empire officially cutting ties with the province so as to not provoke the Thalmor. The Thalmor agreed to the Concordant in the first place because... well, it's complex but the short version is that while they had the upper hand in the war they didn't have the men to continue it after losing the Imperial city. Hammerfell was less of a threat than the Empire in whole, but the entire point of the peace was to give them time to recuperate so they could finish off the Empire. Burning more men and resources in Hammerfell, which wasn't even strategically important to them, wasn't worth the cost. So they just stopped attacking. Crucially; Hammerfell didn't push back against the Dominion. They're well aware they couldn't actually fight them on their own or they would've kept pushing into their territory. Instead, once there were no longer Thalmor in Hammerfell, they stopped too.
Skyrim is now doing to the Empire what Hammerfell was doing to the Dominion. And assuming they win they'll be put in the same position Hammerfell was; unable to actually fight the Thalmor. The best case scenario in repelling the Thalmor's future attack would be joining Hammerfell and the Empire against the Thalmor. Assuming the Empire even survives to fight in the first place. With the Summerset Isles, Valenwood, and Elswyr already gone; Hammerfell and Skyrim now striking out on their own; and Morrowind being a husk of itself, High Rock and Black Marsh (especially so with the Argonians) might not see much reason to stay with Cyrodil.
Saying that Hammerfell held off the Dominion isn't really accurate to the political realties of the situation. Comparing it further to Skyrim's situation is pretty much being completely blind to the state of affairs.
They are not our enemy, but they did gave up very easily
@@moonblaze2713Hammerfell beat the Aldmeri Dominion out of Hammerfell, they cut off their supplies and isolated them, largely because Skyrims entry into the war cut off support for the Hammerfell campaign. Yes, Redguards are not racially blessed as the Nords are in the lore to take on Altmer in a confrontational battle, but they are the most skilled in combat and used that skill to pick apart the Aldmeri Dominion in Hammerfell until they could take them on directly. As it is said in Saadia’s quest, the war against the Aldmeri Dominion is still going strong in Hammerfell.
I never actually noticed that! Thalmor Agents don’t appear in Stormcloak controlled areas. Probably because they legally can’t Or because they’ve already been offed by Patrolling Rebels. XD That is such a cool detail!
Yeah the Stormcloak soldiers would attack them on sight. Where as the Imperials let them operate with impunity.
the thalmor are not just anyone, 3 thalmor mages count as 30 soldiers
Not to mention that some of these wizards have powerful spells like storm atronatch
@@defalt_6427 I mean, yeah. But those 3 Thalmor agents are often the bulk of what you see traveling around. If 3 thalmor is equal to 30 soldiers, what about 30+ soldiers in their own home turf?
I think the most thalmor I’ve seen traveling together is 4, and I could be wrong about that.
there are just over 30 soldiers in a fort
I don't know if I mentioned this, but one of these thalmor guards can summon storm atronatchs, each of which takes care of 6 soldiers.
In the lore it is difficult to compare these beings with humans so they are probably stronger or more resistant in the lore than in the game.
@@defalt_6427 Well if we’re talking lore, humans have overcome elves plenty of time, sometimes with magic of their own. Sure that may not apply exactly here, but it’s hardly impossible. Especially if they just get archered before a fight even starts.
Anytime I play through as an Orc, I always join the Stormcloaks because either
a. Having the Empire trying to execute me immediately had my Orc ready to join the Stormcloaks (Congrats, you radicalized him)
b. Knows the Thalmor persecute and punish anyone who worships Daedra, so that means its a matter of time before Malacath is outlawed. If the Empire was willing to ban Talos, then Malacath is not that far away.
c. If the Empire allows Thalmor to drag away Nords in the middle of the night to get tortured and interrogated, then the same will happen to Orcs.
d. If my Orc becomes best bros with Ulfric and Galmar, then cutting a deal of leaving strongholds alone and have a cooperation deal in place for invasions then that is a best case scenario.
The only that bothers me about joining the Stormcloaks is you have to fight Whiterun and run off the Jarl
Yeah I hated betraying Balgruuf. But much must be risked in war.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953dishonorable
Right or wrong, he made his choice, and he chose comfort and power over honour and freedom, noble a man he may be, he let his anger and hatred of Ulfric get the better of him, great men make great decisions, and great mistakes.
@@james739123 Honor? Oathbreaker Ulfric, who has sent out assassins against Balgruuf and has his men engage in combat with Whiterun's own forces before it even picks a side, makes the Stormcloaks ''honorable''?
Ulfric is the agressor, only a moron sides with the agressor.
@@dutchpatriot17 and only an idiot ignores all facts present against their claims, lie all you like, no one with sense listens to you.
The Stormcloaks don't try to kill you, they look cooler, have a better vibe (charging a fortress with 10 guys as the 'mighty legion' is weird), and have the best dialogue in the goddamn game at the end of the questline.
Build a wall. F the Empire. Make Skyrim Great Again!
Based. Skyrim belongs to the Nords!
Amen.
Yeah
yeahhhh wahoo racism and hatred of refugees for no reason yeahhhhhhhh
@@Mauricio.23 ''For no reason'' Elves tend towards evil in this setting. Look at Thalmor, look at the Dwemer enslaving Falmer, look at the Dunmer enslaving Argonians, look at the Ayleids enslaving imperials. If it was up to the Thalmor all humans would be slaves, and Elven superiority is held by all Elven tribes. There's a reason for the Nords not to trust elves. Use Wuuthrad.
@@Mauricio.23”no reason”. My brother in Talos, the Thalmor literally want to destroy the world and have been committing genocide in occupied territories. Calling the Nords racist and evil in a world where the Thalmor exist is ridiculous. The Stormcloaks are like your racist uncle Dale. The Thalmor are like the Nazis.
I absolutely agree bro. I’ve been thinking this for years. There’s no reason that Skyrim shouldn’t be independent. The Empire doesn’t actually care about Skyrim, her customs, or her people. The Empire just wants Skyrim and the Nords so that they have more bodies to throw at the Dominion when war time comes. Ironically enough, I am sure that if the Empire simply said to the Nords, “Hey we’re gonna withdraw our troops and grant you your independence so we can send our Legion home and help bolster Cyrodiil’s defenses for the next war. All we ask is that when the next war does break out, you help us fight the Thalmor” then the Nords would agree. Because while I’m sure many of them despise the Empire, I’m certain that they hate elves more, and I know they’d rather help out the Empire than watch Cyrodiil fall to the elves. Plus the Nords love to fight so it’s a win win. But the Empire won’t do that because it’s not about what’s logical or what’s fair to them. They’re an EMPIRE, and they want to maintain their control. They want all possible nations to fly their banner, as Imperialist countries often do. It’s for this reason that the Stormcloaks absolutely must win and break Skyrim free from the Empire’s grasp. I think if an independent Skyrim formed a sort of “anti-Thalmor coalition” with Hammerfell then they stand a high chance of beating the Thalmor, as Nords and Redguards are the greatest warriors in Tamriel. I think you have the most reasonable take and approach to this. I feel that most people don’t think beyond surface level on this topic, they just see how nice Balgruuf is or they see some Nords bullying some Dunmer in Windhelm so they immediately say, “No the Stormcloaks are bad and racist! The Empire is obviously the correct choice! They’re the good guys!”
Thanks. You are absolutely correct. God Bless.
Got it in 1 m'lad, glad to see more people with a good head on their shoulders.
The Stormcloaks can't even defeat Imperial militia. An independent Skyrim is objectively weaker than an Imperial one.
@@dutchpatriot17 "The imperials can't even defeat Stormcloak militia. An imperial Skyrim is objectively weaker than an independent one."
Your argument is null and void if someone can just swap the words around, and it holds just as true. Though you get extra points for using the word 'objective', clearly that makes your point more valid.
@@hatncloak45 No, you can't just swap words around, because what you're stating is a falsehood.
The best that the Stormcloaks have to offer are getting massacred by the worst the Empire has to offer. This is all supported by the lore of the game.
Speak to Rikke, listen to Galmar and Ulfric. You'd know these facts if you paid attention while playing.
I have hypothesized numerous ways the Thalmor could try to attack Skyrim, and they are not good.
1) if the Thalmor try to land march through Cyrodiil, some Imperials will see this as a provocation and could attack the army, starting the second great war, meanwhile, Skyrim and Hammerfell could see this as an opportunity to gather their two armies and trap the Thalmor in a pincer manoeuvre, a war on three fronts is definitely not going to bode well for the Thalmor.
2) They gather a fleet of ships and go around the east coast, again they'll run the risk of dealing with Hammerfell, whom are noted for their skills as sailors, so they won't be getting supplies from Hammerfell to restock on the journey to Skyrim, then there's High-Rock whom it's hard to say if they'll allow the Thalmor to dock their ships and regain supplies, some might help but High-Rock is known for its kingdoms been devised in their beliefs so some might welcome them while others might want to take a shot at driving them out, it's hard to tell.
3) The set sail to the west coast, then they have to deal with Black-Marsh and Morrowind, the Argonians are not usually happy with outsiders making demands and if the Thalmor tread on the wrong tails so to speak, they could wind up pissing of the Hisst and we'd have another incident of super-tree-sap Argonians tearing what is supposed to be a superior force been torn to shreds, and even if they get past them to Morrowind, the Dark Elfs under the rule of the "Good Daedra" could suspect treachery, much like High-Rock, some might welcome them in, but given the more cut-throat nature of the Dark Elfs, some of the high ranking members of the Thalmor could find a Morag Tong blade in their backs, the best way they could work around this is by offering to help the Dark Elfs enslave the Argonians again, but that's just going to divert resources away from their plan to invalid Skyrim, giving them more time to prepare.
if it weren't for the loose ties to valenwood and elsweir they lack the manpower for another direct war, one altmer loss on their side counts for 100 lost on their enemies side. they can only operate in the shadows.
plus they have to worry about pirates, sea monsters and the maomer, and almost taking a lap around Tamriel multiplies those threats ten times over.
@@Ed_man_talking9 thank you
for what @@james739123 ?
If the entire Aldmeri force attacked with all their might, it would still be no use.
They must have magic shit of another level, a thalmor mage can summon atronatch storm, each of them must be worth 10 soldiers
Not to mention the warriors, the thalmor are naturally taller and consequently even stronger than most races, even the warriors must be very strong.
they can take a lot of unique artists, and maybe even partner with the dremora.
the empire is weak, so we have little strength, the thalmors were causing a skyrim war to spread and it would work if the dragonborn didn't join one of the sides, aldmeri are stable and very well structured so they must be another level of power.
However, if everyone really got together we would probably win, Magnus' staff and the school, the dark brotherhood, the companions and even the dawnguard.
@@defalt_6427Your correct that the High Elves are on an entire different level of magic if your speaking about within the lore. In the lore they’re really the only ones that can use magic willy-nilly like in the game. Nords can only use magic by speaking or “spelling”, Cyrodilians can only do so by dancing (Think Avatar Last Airbender), and the Bretons have to use hand signs (think Naruto or Witcher). Still Nords aren’t weak in their use of magic, if I had to put what I remember reading about them into a picture, then Nords are like artillery when they use magic, where Altmer are like Gatling guns of top tier ammo. And the High Elves have been the most advanced in science and magic for a few millennia now. However no race does war better than the Nords. But your wrong about the Altmer strength, the only Elves that have noticeable strength are the Orcs. Elves are not a physically strong race. The Altmer have height but not the meat like the Nords do. As the physically strongest race goes, that is Nords in base and Orcs when using their berserk ability. Nords are tall and muscular. And the Altmer do give off a air of stability, but remember they’re a Nazi-like authoritarian government, that has more or less kept power by suppressing its people, and it’s partners people. If they lose face it would probably lead to civil war back in the Aldmeri Dominion. As for a direct conflict the elder races (Altmer and Nords) are the most powerful in the lore. It’s not anyone’s surprise that the High Elves kicked Redguard and Imperial ass until the Nords came down from Skyrim and beat them back. This is also what is important to realize, that not only are the Imperials not keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim they also didn’t keep them out of Cyrodil, that was done by Nord blood. By the time Skyrim entered the battle the Imperials were practically beaten. And where the Aldmeri Dominion basically uprooted the Imperials out of their fortresses and cities then planted themselves in them, the Nords did the exact same thing to the Aldmeri Dominion when they went on the offensive. The race that was powerful enough to beat the Imperials out of their homes and defensive strongholds, then got beaten just the same way by the Nords. Like I say, the Nords do war. The Thalmor have every reason to fear a strong Skyrim.
I'm a simple Skyrim player: If I see the Thalmor, we're fighting.
Same here.
I would liked the option to marry the queen of Skyrim unite the rebels and the empire and crush the thalmor and have a dragon born high king
Would have been an awesome feature.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 it would have
You've just inspired and full on Stormcloak anti-Thalomor play through. I haven't completed the main storyline since 2012. I'm going to do a two-handed build (i've never done before) with Wuuthrad. By my right, Ulfric will be high king. And the eleves will slink back into the hole the came from
Amen, that sounds pretty based. God Bless.
Heavy Armour/Two-Handed was my build during my first ever playthrough. It was super fun. And since I was going with the Stormcloaks I decided to be as anti-mage as possible. Damage magicka potions galore, and magic resistance on my armour. And odd setup for an argonian maybe that was part of the appeal
Ulfric I's the thalmors putter in a way, it says that in the book on ulfric in the thalmor embassy, look it up
@@user-cm5uk6ei6p What's the matter, somebody steal your sweetroll? Milk drinker...
Skyrim belongs to the Nords!
Absolutely.
finally somebody if refering to the Dosier of Ulfric. you have a very valid argument.
Thanks.
This video and the video " the secret plan of the thalmor" from fudgemuppet is all the information that is needed to see that the stormcloak victory is necessary.
The thing is as cool as that “secret plan” is it’s not actually canon it comes from sources that are essentially fan fiction
But, Elder Scrolls is also Fiction!
Dun, Dun, Duuuuuuunnn!
So you want the aldmeri to win
Rebels are fun to join.
I play as a Khajiit who was born and raised in Skyrim by her adoptive Nord parents, and she lived in Windhelm. I also play as a Stormcloak, and my character deeply worships the Nine Divines. She also hates the Thalmor with a burning passion. Loved your video! 💙
Thanks I appreciate it. God Bless.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 You too! And you’re welcome!
Yeah kinda same. My Khajiit was raised by both nord parents in Cyrodil. I just think "fuck the nazi thalmors"
You have convinced me about siding with the stormcloaks. Your arguments make sense, thank you.
Glad to hear it.
My favorite race is high elf elf yet I still choose the storm cloaks I like to role play that my character was banished from the Somerset isles and wants revenge
Interesting.
Das an interesting story!
Now that is something I haven't thought of yet
I think the Empire is overall better prepared to combat the Aldmeri Dominion as far as resources and manpower, yet the Skyrim seceding is more interesting especially since Hammerfell shares a border with Skyrim and was out in a similar situation as Skyrim. If Ulfric canonically wins the civil war, he could ally with Hammerfell since they share the same sentiments (self rule, beef with Empire and the Dominion). The Redguards actually have Pelinal levels of hate for elves lmao also Valenwood was forced into the Dominion so it's possible it could rebel. This would force the Dominion into war on at least four fronts; Cyrodiil, Skyrim, Hammerfell and Valenwood. A continent wide war in Tamriel storyline is lit af
The Bretons of high rock would more than likely seek and alliance aswell especially since Skyrim and high rock have done throughout the history probably the oldest alliance in Tamriel I think
And the Empire fighting a war in Skyrim, wasting a ton of resources fighting other men helps them how?
The Nords would fight beside the Empire in another war, they'd probably even join it
Let's not forget if it comes to light that the Thalmor lied about restoring the moons to the sky, then at a minimum they may lose the khajiit as allies, and at worse then they'll be fighting a war on five fronts
@@BarefootHippie Lore hasn't confirmed or denied them having done that.
@@anonymousanon6913 Indeed. It's more than likely that they did lie about it however since they know how significant the moons are to the khajiit and the thalmor rely heavily on subterfuge and lies. Only a theory on my part.
I think the one thing people who think of the empire as the better option tend to pay attention to is the future. The idea that if Skyrim is under imperial control, then the empire can regrow its strength and take on the Thalmor when the second Great War happens. The problem with this though is that they fail to notice two critical things. For one the Thalmor have already infiltrated every layer of the empire and are watching their every movements. The second thing they forget is that the empire would’ve lost the Great War had it not been for the White Gold Concordat. The empire quit while they were ahead. The Empire recognized that had the war continued they would eventually be overwhelmed so they called the Thalmor’s bluff. While it appeared that they had the overall upper hand it was only momentarily, mind you the empire also had help from Skyrim at the time. At the moment the empire has all cards stacked against them. Winning the war for them doesn’t change that.
Yep. The Empire is basically bringing Skyrim down with it.
And yet the Empire probably could have won the war, or at least gotten better terms, if they hadn't thrown the gauntlet so quickly. The only reason the Thalmor bent down and let them instead of a full takeover is that they lost their secret weapon, the weapon which was the only reason they could win in the first place. An artifact of Vermina if I recall correctly that let them see the future.
I don’t know why someone would want to betray the stormcloaks to join the imperials
For Skyrim!
I mean look at the end. Ulfric gives a passionate speech about rebuilding their country to a glorious state so the gods will approve. And the imperial it's just "I am doubling your pay" That's how they got they go them to cheer. I despise the empire
Then I say welcome to the good guys!
@@MotorcycleCheetah huh did they just confirm a stormcloak victory to be canon in the tarot cards, Looks like freedom wins
Yessss!!!! Yessss!!! Stormcloaks forever! All hail Ulfric! Long live Skyrim!
@@Kirasupporter1 No, they did not. Those cards are literally about a possible outcome, as its literal author declared.
@@dutchpatriot17 Cope and seethe.
Walking through Skyrim you always see decay and loss around every corner. Sometimes it's just better to tear things down and start over instead of trying to delay the fall. Perhaps that's the reason why the stormcloak victory feels so grand and emotional compared to the imperial one.
Good point. The empire is dying and basically dragging Skyrim down with it. A Stormcloak victory will renew it and the land will be inspired again.
One point I've noticed is how the Thalmor call the conflict "The First Great War." People didn't call World War 1 that until after World War 2 because they weren't expecting a second war. However, the Thalmor are clearly already expecting a second war in the future. So you have a growing Aldmari Dominion already planning for a second war and a shrinking empire that's thinks they can win if there's another war. Sorry to say this, but the elves are already five steps ahead of you. The only thing the elves really seem to fear is a Stormcloak victory.
True. A Stormcloak victory completely thwarts the Thalmor's plans for Skyrim.
NordicWarriorGaming. General Tullius is naught but a footstool for Elisif and Elenwen. He is a puppet of the Thalmor. Ulfric Stormcloak is dead right. All hail the Stormcloaks, the true sons and daughters of Skyrim!
this is very refreshing to see, so many videos I've seen make it look like ulfric would just hand skyrim to the elf's and join them.
:) Good Video, Your right on most all of the major parts of that fight and taking sides. Fighting on the Empires side is wanting the Thalmor to control Skyrim, Fighting on the Stormcloak side is wanting Nords in control of Skyrim, Nords (whether you agree with/like Ulfric or not).
Thanks. God Bless.
Take a shot every time NordicWarrior says "Diplomatic Immunity".
Jokes aside, this restored my hope in the Stormcloaks, and they'll have a new sword on their side in my next playthrough for sure.
i always thought it was obvious to fight against the machine, but i dont recall most of it because skyrim came out a decade ago. I have thought about playing it in VR with mods but that thought came around American Thanksgiving and Christmas when all the VR headset were sold out. And i never thought about buying one after, but if Im to revisit skyrim its going to have to be in VR with Mods or no revisiting at all lol.
I happened to notice that the Thalmor have a lot in common with Nazis, I mean, they will literally have dialogue calling themselves the superior race
NordicWarriorGaming. Which armor leveling best suits Ulfric Stormcloak? Does leveling two-handed help him?
It's important to remember that Ulfric himself is only considered an "asset" so long as the war remains a stalemate. He is NOT allied with the Thalmor nor is he helping them as some simperials seem to believe.
Also, I didn't know that Elisif openly supports the Thalmor. All the more reason to side with Ulfric Chadcloak every playthrough.
True. Elisif is a horrible, ignorant character who will lead Skyrim to its own destruction. She's a Thalmor puppet.
Ulfric's status as an asset has nothing to do with the civil war. How come you Stormcloaks always struggle to read the Dossier?
@@dutchpatriot17we do and it shows your as much a pawn as we are and if either side won it would be bad for the dominion you clearly haven’t read it yourself
I have said this on different videos and I'll say it here too. By the end of the main storyline the dragonborn is essentially a demigod wielding immense power and daedric artifacts, Parthunaax, your ally, is the new defacto lord of the dragons. So if a liberated independent Skyrim were to get into open war with the Aldmeri Dominion, they'd have the Dragonborn on their side, it stands to reason the Dragonborn through Parthunaax could bring the dragons to bear on those witch-elves, he can count on Odaviing and Durnehviir and push come to shove just bend the will of dragons to fight for him, though I doubt it would come to that. Then you have nine holds worth of hardened Nords willing to win or die and go to Sovngarde because losing isn't an option. Also you can factor in the companions.
Then you have Hammerfell who have been subjected to the Dominions bullshit for years, gnawing at their borders. A humbled Cyrodiil would side with Skyrim because it's in their best interests due to the common enemy, their legions, however depleted would help some. High Rock would probably also be willing to help out because Bretons are ultimately men and the Dominion would seek to subjugate them. You made an extremely good point about House Redoran and what's left of Morrowind, I could see them helping. Black Marsh is doing whatever the fuck.
All in all, the Dominion is screwed.
Oh and Master Neloth, a Telvanni wizard with centuries of experience and power, with some hefty political weight would also probably be in your corner too
The Empire never wanted to sign the treaty but since they were losing they had no choice
Remember, if the dragonborn Joins stormcloaks, dragonborn can bring an army of dragons. The dragonborn can ride dragons.
NordicWarriorGaming. There are two books in Skyrim wherein the dark elves prove that they are extremely racist. One is in the college of Winterhold and I think the other one is in Dragon's Reach. Acerthorn has a 2hr+ video discussing why the Stormcloaks are no racist and you should side with them. In it he redundantly proves that the dark elves are racist and the Argonians too.
New to Elder Scrolls? Everyone is racist in the Elder Scrolls. Racism is the belief one race is better than another. And in a fantasy world where there are literally races better at something than others, Bethesda just decided to lean into that. Like from the beginning. As racism goes in the Elder Scrolls. Dunmer are the worst, and Nords are the least. And I’ll watch that video you mentioned because I’ve been waiting for someone to point out the actual situation in Windhelm. It’s not that the Dunmer don’t have the funds to clean up their part of the city, it’s that the N’Wah won’t do the work like good White Apes should. It’s like one of those books points out, the situation is about labour. Even if you look at from a equal opportunity point of view, Windhelm has the most diverse businesses measured by race. Three High Elves, Three Dark Elves, Six Nords. If you realize that it’s really Suvaris Atheron who runs clan Shatter-Shields shipping business, then it’s four Dunmer and five Nords. Which Solitude can’t even compare to. I’m ignoring the farmers because they’re a little away from the city, and the East Empire is technically owned by the Emperor so I’m ignoring it completely. And where as the Argonians aren’t allowed in the in the city, which I personally believe Suvaris is influencing Shatter-Shield, who let’s face it is very influenceable, to influence the rest of Windhelm, they are still given housing and honourable means to support themselves. Not trying to cherry-pick it here, their situation still sucks. But where the Argonians of Windhelm have that the Argonians of Solitude are allowed in but aren’t given housing and have to depend on piracy to get by. As I have said in other forums. It’s not that Windhelm is more racist than Solitude, quiet the opposite after all it is the city of emancipation that when ruling Skyrim fought against slavery, but it’s just that Windhelm is more forthright and honest about it while Solitude is more polite and wears a veil about itself.
@@danielr.golightly38 Who is the Imperial spy in Windhelm? NordicWarriorGaming has a video titled (Rolff Stone-Fist is right. You should watch that video too. Acerthorn defends the Stormcloaks, but doesn't see this point until later in his 2 hr video titled The Stormcloaks are not racist.
Stormcloak gang
Skyrim belongs to the Nords!
Subscribed.
very good video
Thanks. God Bless.
I think that the Stormcloaks can win the Empire is pretty much crumbled people forget that when the septum Dynasty died with Martin septim the me Dynasty took its place this Empire currently belongs to the me Dynasty not the septum Dynasty the septum Dynasty is long past
The septum is the nose piercing goth chicks wear
Mede Dynasty not Me, also this new Empire Mirrors the old Empire Complete with racism and Imperilism from the old one, plus their cowards.
I never really seen it that way you got a good point
The Thalmor cannot invade Skyrim therefore, they are using the Empire and the WGC as a doorway to set up a large enough occupation to overthrow Skyrims leadership.
True invading Skyrim would be like Napoleon trying to invade Russia it wouldn’t go well
No they aren't. They're literally understaffed as is.
@@dutchpatriot17 who the Thalmor? No bro they aren’t
@@Saber23 Yes they are. To quote:
"Our forces are stretched thin enough as it is, and I have better missions - better agents - to assign them to."
From Elenwen's Thalmor Orders, as retrieved from a dead Justiciar at the Shrine of Talos near Lake Illanalta.
@@Saber23 Also, Skyrim is nothing like Russia. It's more like Sweden, or Norway.
I could see why everyone who plays Skyrim would want to join the empire instead of joining the stormcloaks especially if they betray them
This isn't a problem for me, the Nords always win the civil war in my playthroughs.
Let's not forget the start of Season Unending. The Empire INSIST on Elenwen being present at the negotiations, KNOWING how Ulfric would react. To quote Rikke when Ulfric protests "That didn't take long." Tullius intentionally brought someone whose presence alone was enough to cause conflict.
The Empire needs Skyrim INFINITELY MORE than Skyrim needs the Empire.
The Dragonborn's also an actual member of House Telvanni, which hopefully gives him even more influence in Morrowind in addition to being on good terms with Redoran.
Skyrim literally relies on the food and resources the Empire provides it. It is not self reliant.
The Empire only needs Skyrim for its armies in preparation for the next war.
Skyrim needs the Empire more than vice-versa in the literal sense of the term.
@@dutchpatriot17 So why doesn't Hammerfell need the Empire's food? Hammerfell's just as harsh an environment as Skyrim, if not even harsher, so why does Skyrim need them?
@@briansanders8122 Who says Hammerfell does not need the Empire's food?
Your claim that Skyrim doesn't need the Empire is factually incorrect.
@@dutchpatriot17 So why can Hammerfell get the Empire's food without being forced to pander to the Thalmor like Cyrodiil? Why does only Skyrim have to stay part of the Empire to trade with them?
@@briansanders8122Hammerfell did not murder its High King and fight against the Empire.
I do believe the storm cloaks should win the civil war as well, but I think it will also become official lore for future Elder Scrolls projects. It is very obvious from past elder scrolls games and lore leading up to elder scrolls 6 that there will be a second Great War. And like you said if the Empire wins it would cause less conflict with the Thalmor. Which from a story and plot standpoint wouldn’t make sense in a lead up to the second Great War. I do not believe this second Great War will be in ES6 but in ES7. A main reason I believe this is because like you said in your video the only providences left of the Empire besides Cyradill is Skyrim and High-Rock. And say the storm cloaks win the only Providence left would be High Rock. Which leads to ES6, which takes place in Hammerfell and HIGH- ROCK. ES6 in my opinion will be very similar to Skyrim which has a main plot but is dominated by a subliminally plot like the civil war involving the Empire/ Thalmor and whatever faction opposing them. ES6 will not be the Great War Bc with how large of a scale the Great War would be we don’t exactly have the right technology just yet to meet the demands of what people would want from the Second Great War. But instead ES6 will focus on in my opinion, Hammerfell and it’s relationship with the Empire (since the Empire abandoned them) and a “Civil War” aspect in High rock. Eventually leading Hammerfell to convince High-Rock of leaving the Empire. Thus leaving only Cryidil left of the Emire and how poetic would it be for that to be one of the first casualties/ battles of the second Great War in ES7.
Stormcloaks are blue. The end.
^ LMAO 100% this right here
I like red more that’s why when when I joined the stormcloaks I believed in them 😂
Elisif is interesting because at certain points she seems like this nice but no power and weak willed, puppet queen but she also has moments where you can see she has lots of ambition almost dangerously so. Dead High King Torygg is similar where it seems he was a good person but had a naïve belief that the empire could be what it once was and he wasn't ready to let go of that because the Nords created the empire. Unfortunately it's not the truth of it's actual state. This is supposedly why he didn't side with Ulfric at the moot years back and did not rebel himself according to Sybille.
Speak to Elisif at the Thalmor party and you will realise she is a complete moron. Also Sybille is an evil, sociopathic vampire and a manipulator.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 Sybille is definitely sociopathic at points lol.
However Elisif seems more like a woman who wasn't meant/qualified to be a high queen and is now by odd circumstance a candidate. I don't root for her at all, as I'm totally against staying with a government that by Ulfrics words "is to weak to rule them but brands them traitors for them wanting to rule themselves." But she also definitely has almost opportunistic dialogue when talking with her about possibly being high queen.
As a redguard im choosing stormcloak once again. Been looking into alot of the lore based around the civil war and never knew the empire basically gave my homeland away to the elves (if im correct) so as a redguard why would I side with them? I always hated that bastard ancano and based on a rp perspective im the dragonborn so I can wipe out some thalmor no problem to assist the true sons of skyrim. Not too keen on the dominion yet but thats another topic. With the help of all the independent nations like hammerfell for example and the allies we made in solstheim I think skyrim will be in good hands with ulfric and the dragonborn at the helm.
Also being the arch mage and having support of the college, after ancanos actions they will most definitely side with me and help my cause if need be
If Hammerfell can defend against the Thalmor Skyrim can. Skyrim has such strong warriors they literally have erased an entire race, Skyrim is such a defendable country too, there's only 1 way in through the mountains. The Stormcloaks can literally 300 Leonidas that shit with Ulfrics shouts alone 😂. Empires rise and fall, eso shows us the empire was on its knees. It happens. In real world direct comparisons are America and British Empire, or Greeks and Egyptians, or Roman Empire and Barbaric Germanians. Am important factor I see, is Ulfric is like Trump. Yes. Trump. The people used to hate it, but now we need him.
Good points. Empires are known to rise and fall.
13:36 say sike right now
NordicWarriorGaming. Is it daytime where you are, can we talk?
the argument of his challenge to toryg , ulfric formally challenged toryg and toryg accepted, using the ancient nord hero thuum which is ulfrics own spirits vital essence, which in a nordic custom is not cheating to me, he defeats toryg, this is fair to me by skyrim law, but if it wasnt, i argue that the laws needed to be broken, under toryg and the new thalmor\empire conglomerate empire , countless nord families are being destroyed and brutally murdered simply for being nords and worshipping talos, both for their religion and race, because talos worship is the nord way, nord tradition, if you want to follow in your nord ancestors you worship talos, being subject to imprisonment torture and execution , empire loyalists expect me to allow my families to be killed and have faith they will betray their masters one day? empire loyalists argue that the stormcloaks help the thalmor by taking out the empire, because the thalmor will now only have to deal with the stormcloaks, but i could argue the very same thing 1000 years earlier that the empire shouldnt be fighting the aldmeri dominion because the other two factions will gain from that and become too strong from that, its the same reasoning, and it proves the empire loyalists hypocrites. the empire loyalist will suggest a solution that we accept the thalmor empire watch our families die, hope the empire will betray their masters one day . i say, with the spirit of skyrim, i do not need a lesser tyranny to take out a greater tyranny for me, skyrim belongs to the nords, with righteous claim for we the brave spirit of skyrim if we find our selves without allies without the empire against the thalmor alone in this fight, it will not stop me. a stormcloak skyrim is a greater nation of righteous rule, we will not dip our tongues in honey drink milk and lick the behind of a weaker empire of tyranny for its help. alone or together i fight for the families and freedom skyrim and her people .
I don't even drink. I'd love to have a beer with you bro. We are two dudes who love Boxing and Skyrim. Bet we could have endless conversations that no one would know what were talking about 😂
Yeah man that would be awesome. Deep conversations about the sweet science and the ethics and lore of the elder scrolls LOL. God Bless.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 sounds too awesome bro! Love all the content man! 👍 God Bless from the USA 🇺🇸 my spiritual reincarnation 🙏✝️🙏
It dose say that a stormcloak victory is to be avoided it also says that a imperial victory would harm there position in skyrim greatly something that was failed to be mentioned
Wrong. It says "Ulfric's death would have greatly increased the chance of an Imperial victory, which would ultimately hurt our goals in Skyrim"
As I clearly explained in the video, this is because the war must remain indecisive so that the Empire continues to divert recourses and manpower to Skyrim.
This does not mean that the Thalmor want the Stormcloaks to gain advantage or to win, or that they don't want or expect the Empire to win in the long run. If the Empire wins, things continue as normal and they have to reorganise while continuing to give diplomatic immunity to the Thalmor. If the Stormcloaks win, the Thalmor get completely exiled from Skyrim and their plans are fully thwarted.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 Bruh you can't even quote the Dossier right.
''Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim.''
An Imperial victory is the worst-case scenario for the Thalmor.
@@dutchpatriot17 You need to get a life dude. Seriously.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953he goes in all the Skyrim comments and makes himself a fool too many times I’ve won arguments with him before he’s honestly a freak I find him for fun at this point 😂
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953he goes in all the Skyrim comments and makes himself a fool too many times I’ve won arguments with him before he’s honestly a freak I find him for fun at this point 😂
Edit here... I enjoy rolling in Skyrim as a vamp, love the DLC and all. That being said. Try playing as a High Elf who Hates the Thalmor. A High Elf vamp lord making trouble for the Empire. Is fun.. and yeah, Wow.. got a vid where someone knows what's going on in Skyrim! Sub and Like
Thanks brother. God Bless you.
Correct me if I'm wrong... but From what I've heard the thalmor only managed to defeat the empire because it was a surprise attack... The empire wasn't expecting a invasion at that point in time...
Whatever the thalmor try this time it'll have to be something different because that won't work this time...
Which is why they want the war to go on as long as it can... They know they don't have enough bodies to fight anybody... Maybe they could fight the empire I doubt even that... But if they get their enemies to fight each other then they could pick off the "victor" or more accurately the side that lost less
A proxy war.
also Dominion likely used Illusion magic and Considering during the Obilvion crisis Mages guild and Magic user where blamed for it Empire likely whent on a witch hunt of mages weakening their defences from magical attacks.
Plus Necromancy and Deadra Worship being Fully Banned in Cyrodill rather then Tolerated. Sad dark elf noises.
While I agree with some of the stuff stated I believe that the Stormcloaks are largely missing the point. So for starters the Empire actually defeats the Thalmor at the Battle of the Red Ring where they hang the general Lord Nariffin on the White Gold Tower. They, however, have a decimated army that could not sustain further conflicts with the Thalmor at that time. Titus II signs the treaty, which is just the same ultimatum that was given to him on the 30th of Frostfall. This included large sums of tribute, southern hammerfell, and the outlawing of Talos worship. During the closing of the Great War the Reachmen, who had ruled themselves successfully for two years, we under threat from Ulfric as he led a band of militia men to recapture the city for Skyrim. Ulfric used the Thu’um to achieve this victory and would commit several war crimes in the city. The ex Jarl of the reach would try to return to his place as jarl but Ulfric would only accept this if he allowed free worship of Talos in his hold. The Jarl would accept and so would the Imperials who were with him, hoping that the Thalmor would not know that they were allowing Talos worship in Skyrim. The Thalmor would figure out, however, and would arrest Ulfric after the incident. Ulfric would “escape” custody and return to Windhelm to take his place as Jarl. The High King of Skyrim, Istlod, had died after Ulfrics return and a moot was held as a formality with the rise of High King Torygg. Ulfric would use the moot to argue for Skyrim’s independance. Some time after Torygg rose to High King Ulfric would return to Solitude yet again but this time to challenge the boy king for his throne. Torygg respect for Ulfric, as he was a hero of the Great War, and most likely would have listened to him had Ulfric came with good intentions. Ulfric would challenge Torygg for his throne and would use the Thu’um as his means to kill him. Ulfric would flee the city and the civil war would begin. The Thalmor have no interest in either side winning. The Imperials winning would be a huge threat to Aldmeri power on the continent and would allow them to build up and pose a threat in the next war. The Thalmor would rather have the province divided as this would make a easy victory for the Dominion. To move onto Hammerfell its important to note the factors which were at play during their conflict. The Dominon armies like stated before had been destroyed at the Battle of the Red Ring. The Redguards were also let go from the Legion to return to their homeland and defend it which gave Hammerfell battle hardend soliders to fight. Hammerfell also has access to Stone Wizards and Cannons which are two things Skyrim would lack. Skyrim is also a very weak province by itself. Most of its population are dumb farmers who aren’t well trained. Skyrim is also lacking in food production and in industry as well which are two things they gain from being in the Empire. Especially since they have, by this point, been in the empire for close to 634 years. The Thalmor also have a much stronger military now which would be able to defeat a newly independant Skyrim. One quick point you mentioned in the video about the Imperial soldiers. To quote the star wars movies, what they are saying it true from a certain point of view. The Empire is the sheild that is guarding mankind from being overran by the elves. While yes Justiciars are in Skyrim, that is the effect of losing a war, they are not able to have total authority in the Empire. We know at the very start of the game Tullius refuses to give Ulfric to the Thalmor at the gates. In Diplomatic Immunity you can have Tullius write a letter for Thoralds release which the Thalmor cannot refuse. Onto the Empire being dead thats not entirely true. Morrowind is both a part of the Empire and isn’t a part of the Empire. Specifically House Redorans land is more so part of the Empire, though its not all that valuble. Red Mountain decimated the province so its not that useful. Black Marsh isn’t either since the only trade it actually has is eldrich god tree sap, and dock workers. The only really important province its lost has been Hammerfell and possibly Summerset, though the elves have always hated mankind. Speaking of Mankind, my last point. Mankind is protected by the 9th divine, Talos. Mankind cannot be destroyed without Talos losing divinity. The Empire is also protected by Talos since he is, even though its highly complicated, the founder of the Empire. Dividing the nations of man would only destroy any hope of victory against the threat that is the Thalmor. Other than that it was nice to see a video that isn’t the same lame stormcloak arguments, the video was based and chadpilled, though knowing the lore I would have to disagree. Sorry for the long reply though, elder scrolls is just that epic.
What would be the better choice to join then?
@@Dan-qq6hy well thats all depending on the goal of your character. Different outlooks on where you want Tamriel to be can influence your decision. If we are talking purely based on who could defeat the Thalmor then the Empire. The Empire just has far more resources, more experienced soldiers, better generals, and the infastructure to make final victory possible. The Empire would be far more prepared in a hypothetical Second Great War than they were in the first one which would make much of the early losses in the first war minimized in the second. The Empire did much better after they were organized which aided them at the Battle of the Red Ring. The Stormcloaks could only be a viable choice if Ulfric helps the Dragonborn take the Imperial throne. Bethesda seems hesitant to allow previous main characters a chance to be important after their story is over so this is unlikely however not impossible. Also its possible that the Empire is taken over by the Dragonborn if he joins the Legion as well. With the backing of the army he could easily do this even if Titus Mede II has a viable heir. So overall I do believe the Empire has a better chance at defeating the Thalmor on their own than that of an independant Skyrim ruled by Ulfric.
Neither is the correct choice. As the other individual states in the thread, the decision lies with the Dragonborn. The only reason you as the player exists, is to make a decision regarding Alduin, it's more likely that you would foster a temporary treaty for it like you do in the game if you progress the main quest far enough. After that it just stays a stalemate. It's safe to assume that in actual lore, the Dragonborn stops Alduin, considering there's a new Elder Scrolls game on the way, supposedly. If that's the only continuity of lore for the next game, it's safe to assume that your main bad guy is the Aldemeri Dominion. Which means they took Skyrim while it was still under a civil war for however long.
After seeing majority of Skyrim fanbase being pro-Imperial oriented, it is so calming seeing sombedy openly taking the opposite attitude. Yes, that quote about Empire defending Skyrim from Dominion is such huge heap of crap Greybeards could build upon it a new monastery to be in even greater seclusion, and just blatant proof of of brain-dead Imperial propaganda. Also, another thing Empire-lovers tends to say often is that without the Empire, ununified Tamriel has no chance against Dominion. This seems to me like clear example of their messianic complex, because why the Oblivion couldn't independant parts of Tamriel cooperate as an alliance? In Second Era, part of Black Marsh, several Houses of Morrowind and kingdom of eastern Skyrim made an alliance called Ebonheart Pact, and with it, succesfully repelled Akaviri invasion and even stood their ground in Three Banner War (up untill that fool Tiber Septim had to sc*ew things up and conquer his Third Empire). Ebonheart Pact was supposed to become Tamriel Pact and its purpose was to assure independance of it's countries. The only reason they wanted to occupy Ruby Throne and put their member as new emperor was to make basically "a blocation" for a throne - making sure, that no true emperor ever takes that place and jeopardize independance of Tamriel's territorries. And again, I ask, why should not a Second Ebonheart Pact be formed, with Stormcloak Skyrim and independant Hammerfell, Morrowind and Black Marsh? The Empire is not needed (expecially Empire that is vassal to Dominion), the Pact suffice in its role more than enought, and there are no risk of misusage of its position to opress its citizens, something that all three Empires in past did.
The Empire does defend Skyrim from the Dominion, it's the only thing standing between the Dominion and world domination. Alliances are less stable and less effective militarily than a single state is. Especially one with a military as well trained as Cyrodiil's.
Even the Ebonheart Pact that you are such a fanboy of, was barely standing. Not one province fully committed to it, and the tensions between the three races remained obvious throughout its existence. The Ebonheart Pact was also nowhere to be found when Tiber Septim showed up, and literally believed that Mannish races are unfit to rule.
Neither Hammerfell, Black Marsh, nor Morrowind stands anything to gain from such an alliance. The Stormcloaks are weak and unpredictable - Hammerfell would gain nothing from allying with it. Morrowind and Black Marsh are still at war, and that's ignoring Ulfric's racist treatment of Argonians and Dunmer alike.
@@dutchpatriot17 Oh boy, what a moment. Chief white knight of the Empire calls me a fanboy, I should probably feel insulted if it wouldn't be so goddamn funny. And to top it of, you come out with that stupid would-be-argument "blah blah Stormcloak racist blah blah".
Honestly, I really don't know if you are just troll, or if you are really such abysmally spineless lackey-minded person that feels so comfortable if dominated by some super strong power. Either way, you are not even worthy of respect, and that makes your "arguments" invalid in my eyes.
@@mausolus8466 In other words, you admit that you can't form a counterargument so you resort to ad hominems. Can't expect too much clear thinking from Stormcloaks now can we?
Classic Stormcloak ignorance of the lore.
@@dutchpatriot17 Hypocrite! Critticising me for something you do yourself. No, I'm just fed up arguing with you, it's waste of time. Always the same.
@@dutchpatriot17 *Replying to your big post on this video that cannot be replied too because of too many replies*
The dossier doesn't say Ulfric is or ever was a *direct agent* . The language is intentionally ambiguous. You are being dishonest in your discussions by acting as though it says something it doesn't. You are the definition of a fanboy- not the people you called fanboys.
Old school Nords are about death before dishonor. Politics be damned..win or lose isnt their first goal..living and dying with honor is. Thats my guys. Good video.
The Empire tried to take my head. Well then, they fucked around and they found out. No other reason needed, never liked Ulfric and he is a dick, but he didn't try to kill me. Galmar, yeah I'd take him out though
What bothers me about the Empire is it's army is massive yet it was destroyed by the Thalmor on their own land. You also have to worry about keeping the Oblivion gate closed because no one of Dragon blood has the amulet of kings. The Dragonborn will become the new Emperor likely and it'd like to have Ulfric as High King beside me. All of Skyrim will be with you.
Pretty much, the Dragonborn could lead the whole of Tamriel and the Nords can rule their own land.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 Always feel like the Dragonborn will become high king when the moot meets as he has so much credibility behind him. Possibly leading to Emperor. The Dragon Blood gives you a claim. I always believe as soon as I came to power I would bring the Jarl back to Whiterun
@@sirsir9665nope, Ulfric takes all the power
when Martin septim became an Avatar of Akatosh he closed all the gates to Obilvion and restored the Barriers fully meaning Akatosh is at his Strongest and maintains the barrier rather then having the septims do it.
some Deadra do get though and Artifact but less so then before it also may explain why some deadra are forggoten about as their hold over Nirn deminises.
but yea Dragoborn will likely be Emperor again seeing how it will sate his/her will to Dominate like all dov.
The amulet of kings was destroyed at the end of Oblivion.
"Elisif is a woman" is all the reason I needed to support the Stormcloaks. Good man.
No but really, this is a great video.
Thanks. God Bless.
How I'm years late finding this, I don't know but I'm glad I did . Two things always put me on Team Stormcloak. First: The banning of Talos worship to kiss the backsides of the Thalmor who seem to hate every other race anyway and want everyone to be subjugated to them. It would be like telling a Christian that we "cannot" worship Jesus Christ (our God in the flesh) because the Thalmor "say so". Insulting the hero-god of the Nords is far beyond the proverbial slap in the face and would turn any devoted/patriotic Nord against the "edict" quickly.
Second: One line by the Imperial Captain:
Hadvar- Captain what should we do? He's not on the list.
Captain: Forget the list. He goes to the block!
Me/My Character *Mentally* : Okay, so you're about to kill me because *reasons* even though you just admitted to my face that I'm not on your list of those to be executed.... but you're going to do it anyway because you don't give a *bleep* . Okay. See you later.
Meanwhile Ralof and his family are friendly, and even give me a key to their home so I have somewhere to stay if I need it.
NordicWarriorGaming. This is a shot in the dark, but do you like Mortal Kombat?
I don't have much experience with it personally. But I am considering reviewing the series at some point.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 You ever hear of gaming sins videos? We could discuss the sins of Mortal Kombat and GOD OF WAR. The latter is an in-depth dive into the pre-flood world. The Nephalim are one of my favorite subjects.
Even without Skyrim, the Empire would still have plenty of Nords to support and fight for it. Sounds crazy, I know, but just hear me out..
During the American revolution, the attitude that the colonists had regarding the war was nearly even. 1/3 supported gaining independence. 1/3 remained loyal to the crown. While the remaining third were neutral, not caring one way or the other. After the war, those loyal to Great Britain fled and went to places still part of the empire: Canada, the Bahamas, etc. In Skyrim, it would essentially be the same. Half the population supported the Stormcloaks, while the other half remained loyal to the Empire.
In the event of a Stormcloak victory, there would be a mass exodus of Nords loyal to the Empire. We’re talking thousands upon thousands- if not more! These Nords would naturally resent the Stormcloaks, but they’d especially hate the Thalmor, who were arguably the root of their troubles. Meaning that even though the Empire loses Skyrim, they at least have an entire population of Nords fanatical and out for blood to fight for them.
So in the long run, the Thalmor would be encircled by enemies: Skyrim, Hammerfell, and, of course, what’s left of the Empire. In short, they’re screwed.
50% of the cities supported the Empire not 50% of the population and in Skyrim people lived there for Generations mostly won't leave.
@@viniciusmartins8733add to that, nords are proud of their land. Suggesting a mass exodus shall skyrim become independent is delusional
Being part of a proud race, with ties to your homeland, doesn’t necessarily mean every Nord will stay. Even proud people would be bound take flight, if they were in fear for either theirs or their loved one’s lives.
If either of you would like, I’m willing to give examples in history where that sort of thing actually happened…
Most imperials say the stormcloaks are Nazies, i don't know but fighting for independence doesn't seem racist to me but stoping people from warshiping there religion and destroying there culture because it is "not Civilised" doesn't put them in the best position to say that
They have a lot in common if you think about it. Both groups were on the losing side of a "Great War" which ended with having an unfair treaty imposed upon them. They came home, and instead of being able to move on and process their traumas, they find the home they fought for corrupt, impoverished, decadent, and run by soft individuals who managed to profit off of the war.
@@ailius1520That's no excuse for the monstrous things they did, nor does it undo the legacy of wretchedness and pain they left for the planet and the human race as a whole.
It's because they're blond white people. That's literally it
Where the Imperial milk drinkers at 😂
You put a lot of faith in the fact that hammerfell fend off the altmer, but one of the large reason why hammerfell won was cause the Altmer had so many of their high ranking commanders and fighting force killed in the battle for cyrodill weaking teh Altmer significantly, hammerfell againt full power Altmer stand no chance, and that goes for Skyrim as well.
“A woman should never be in charge of a country” incredibly based sir
Thanks. God Bless.
no, not really
that's just total misogynistic nonsense
@@thezeronelite You're brainwashed.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 Brainwashed into thinking women are capable of good leadership? Good lord have some sense
Everybody has the right to their own opinion
13:33 unfathomably based
We have to admit the Thalmor are pretty smart. I think they honestly knew they couldn't beat the empire outright and so demanded hammerfell and banning of Talos to ostracize the redguards and nords from the empire, the two human races that hate elves the most (redguards hate elves cause of the sinestral elves) and are the greatest human warriors. With the loss of these two provinces the empire is a shadow of it's former self. But i disagree with Galmar, i think the septim empire died with Martin Septim, and is know the cyrodillic empire not fit to represent all men in tamriel.
Fair point. It all fell apart after Martin's death.
MotherF'er, not everyone has to join the stormcloaks
So?
So?
Ulfric is like Trump.
Do u mean in a good or bad way?
@@Joker_Voorhees Good. Bit of bad too the point about him possibly being controlled opposition.
He's not really
“When Morrowind sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They're not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing destruction spells. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people”
1:50
Talos is a more central deity to the Imperials than he'll ever be to the Nords. Nords even refused to attend Chapel Sermons in his Great Cathedral in Bruma, refused to worship him alltogether, until sometime in the Fourth Era when they converted.
7:09
Actually, that's exactly what the Dossier states, at least, up until the Markarth Incident, when he became uncooperative as a result of his arrest.
8:27
Empire supporters are fully aware that the Civil War benefits the Thalmor... Ulfric and his men are ignorant of it.
9:50
It's canon that the Empire was only able to survive the Great War because of the Concordat - Hammerfell's survival is no different. The Dominion no longer had a motivation to conquer Hammerfell when it made peace with the Empire.
10:16
The Empire is what keeps the Dominion out of Skyrim - because without the Empire, Skyrim would be invaded by the Dominion, sooner or later. Being unable to tell the Dominion apart from the Thalmor says more about you than them.
10:50
Remember how that same dossier literally states an Imperial victory harms the Thalmor?
12:12
The Justiciars do not have the legal authority to do whatever they want, just because they do does not prove they have the legal authority.
16:01
Impossible? Winterhold, Eastmarch, and the Rift are all Stormcloak territory, how exactly does a Stormcloak victory make these things impossible? It does not.
17:50
Factually incorrect. When Titus Mede finally took the throne, the Empire consisted of little more than Skyrim and 7/9th of Cyrodiil... They only lost Valenwood due to a coup while the Empire was still recovering from the aftermath of the Oblivion Crisis. They reclaimed Hammerfell, High Rock, Elsweyr, Leyawiin and Bravil. Only losing Elsweyr due to the Void Nights and Hammerfell due to the Concordat... Which only had to be signed because the Empire had been involved in many wars just before the Great War broke out, alongside several other factors.
19:28
Hammerfell acknowledges that the Empire is needed to truly defeat the Dominion, they won't back the Stormcloaks unless the Empire does. The Redoran don't care for either party, Empire or Dominion, so I strongly doubt they'd get involved.
All in all, the arguments are rather poor, Skyrim-centered, and short-sighted. It doesn't matter if Skyrim has its freedom when that freedom will be removed due to the Empire failing to beat the Dominion in the next war. The Stormcloaks struggle against the Empire's worst... That should say something. The Empire is the only chance to beat the Dominion.
Amen brother! The empire is not perfect (nor should it be cuz that would be lazy writing) but it’s better than the alternatives, I used to be a stormcloak supporter until I actually looked at the lore of the game and came to the similar conclusions and points that you made.
Nerd
@@hex8787 Everyone who watches these vids is a nerd.
No Dutch
You need to watch the video "the secret plan of the thalmor " from the Chanel fudgemuppet.
The video will show that the danger of not openly worship Talos is greater then do not have a empire.
Very well thought-out and articulated video. I played as a Nord on my first playthrough and sided with the Stormcloaks for obvious Nord-nationalist reasons, then on my second, played as an Imperial who sided with the Empire for obvious Imperial Nationalist reasons. I'm on my third playthrough as a Dunmer who is siding with the Stormcloaks. I know that will surprise a lot of people because of "look how the Dunmer are treated in Windhelm, Ulfric's own city!" Well, my character is a refugee and escaped with Ralof, because it was the Imperials who ordered her to be beheaded simply for being at the wrong place at the wrong time and was unaware of how bad the Dunmer are treated until she arrived in Windhelm for the first time. There's a Dunmer farmer (I forget his name) who argues if the Dunmer start being productive and stop sitting around feeling sorry for themselves, the Nords will come to respect them and treat them better. Also after hearing a drunken bigot like Rolff Stone-Fist complain about Dunmer not siding with the Stormcloaks, she realizes respect is earned and not given, if the Dark Elves want to be accepted by Skyrim's Nords, they will have to earn it by fighting for Skyrim. And as pointed out in this video, the Dunmer and Altmer hate each other. Rolff's beliefs that the Dunmer are in league with the Thalmor may be baseless to anyone who isn't him, but they still have to show people like him otherwise. Once the war is over, my character will use their status as a dragonborn and as a high-ranking officer in the Stormcloak army to leverage better treatment for the Dark Elves. And also make the argument: "Who did more Skyrim's freedom? Me, a Dark Elf who fought dragons, Imperials, and Thalmor, or Rolff, a petty drunk who stayed in Windhelm and talked shit about my people and the Argonians?"
I say give markarth to forsworn for help against thalmor those guys are pretty tough
Nah the Forswarn are morons. Plus they aren't even a faction, just tribes of bandits who worship Daedra. They would be useless.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 They literally worship Namira, the prince that most of all, exemplifies degeneracy and decay.
The forsworn would be radical leftists in the modern day, and as someone who doesn't like radical leftists, I don't like them.
@@anonymousanon6913 Amen.
Yikes about that sexist comment bruh 😅.. 13:52
You make fair points, but I still choose to side with empire. I don’t believe that Ulfric is a murderer like other people, I even have an endless amount of respect for him, and what he stands for, but in spite of all that, I do think he’s a fool, who refuses to see the bigger picture.
Few things the NPCs always say.
- But the gray quarter
Its a place that refugees live. Altmer have integrated with the nords in Windhelm hell theres even a Hlaalu farm with Nord farm hands.
-the Argonians live outside the walls.
As opposed to living in Windhelm with the Dunmer after their nation had just attempted an invasion of Morrowind not 200 years ago? The Dunmer won't integrate with the Nords and they haven't had a war for over a standard Dunmer lifetime. What do you think they're going to do to the Argonians?
NordicWarriorGaming. What level does your speech need to be at, to convince Balgruf to side with Ulfric Stormcloak?
You can't. He will always side with the empire sadly.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 That's a pity. The persuade option is there...
I believe the dark elves would remain neutral should another war come to pass
Most likely they would, but if the Altmeri Dominion try anything to cleanse themselves of inferior elves, they'll be ready to draw their weapons.
Considering how many kings have caused a lot of problems and pretty sure we women can take care of a country a lot better Lol.
No.
NordicWarriorGaming. Are you still getting my messages?
Because Skyrim belongs to the Nords.
Nordic warrior gaming. Please let me know if you get this comment. I am VERY interested to talk to a fellow Stormcloak enthusiast.
I see the comment. Good to see you here my friend. God Bless.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 And you as well my friend.❤️ Long live Ulfric Stormcloak. Balgruf is the real warmonger.
@@dalestevenson8947 Yeah Balgruuf is a fool.
@@nordicwarriorgaming4953 Do you like Norse mythology? I'm sure you know Skyrim is heavily influenced by it.
@@dalestevenson8947 Yeah Skyrim takes a lot of influence from it. Personally I am a born again Christian so Pagansim of any kind has never appealed to me unless its used well in fiction.
I never bought the whole 'Skyrim needs the Empire against the Thalmor!' Nords conquered much of Tamriel before and there's no reason to believe they were any stronger back then than they are now. Proof of their strength and of an independent' Skyrim's ability to fend for itself would be the Stormcloaks kicking the Empire out of Skyrim.
The Nordic Empire wad built once, collapsed, and never recovered.
The Stormcloaks are getting massacred by the worst the Empire has to toss their way, in what world are they a bigger threat to the Dominion than the Empire?
@@dutchpatriot17 '''The Empire'' is just Cyrodill, and they've essentially lost every conflict they've fought in recent history. In what world are *they* a threat to the Dominion at this point? lol The Empire has only empowered the Thalmor in Skyrim by letting them explore the country with full diplomatic immunity in search of powerful artifacts (Dragon Masks, Staff of Magnus, they also tried to get Stalhrim in Solstheim)
Stormcloak take-over is simply the solution. Kick out the Thalmor from Skyrim ASAP to weaken the Dominion.
@fartz3808 I just want to add something I see as overlooked in the arguments. The imperial general Surrenders very easily the moment you enter the castle. Ulfric goes down blade in hand.
This to me just shows you the empire will surrender or break to the Thalmor without much effort. They became shattered, and fragile during the Great War. We are fighting or assisting imperial remnants. Not the Empire from morrowind and oblivion.
@@talizorah6898 Tullius literally fights back, what are you on about?
Furthermore, there is nothing to gain from killing an experienced General like Tullius. Letting him live is the strategical thing to bear the Dominion.
But of course, Stormcloaks and strategy are a contradiction.
@@talizorah6898 The Empire is literally winning the war without the intervention of the LDB...
Skyrim is for the nords!
Bathesda may be good for making shit games nowadays but they literally cooked up a storm of great writing with the Stormcloak rebellion. One and a half decade in people are still torn between the two.
The Empire has lost it's leadership, it's founding principle, and most of it's land and elite forces. It is a hollow, broken shell, and there is not even the Akatosh covenant anymore to give it legitimacy. Even if they crush the Stormcloak rebellion, Skyrim will be an occupied province at best, the trust of the Nords and Redguards is irreperably damaged. High rock is the only somewhat stable province left, and I'm sure the Breton kingdoms would rather ally with an independant Skyrim and Hammerfell, if they are isolated from an already weak and politically subjugated Cyrrodil. Heck, even the former Imperial heartlands would be better off in the next war if they let their provinces become independent, and just enter a coalition against the Aldmeri threat.
Trying to keep together the Empire would just expend the last strength of men on trying to heal something that is already dead. A quick Stormcloak victory is the best path to the survival of men and their homelands, the preservation of Talos, liberation for Elsweyr and Valenwood, and even preventing the unmaking of mundus itsself.
The empire is the last thing left that the Nords have of Talos, to turn their backs on the empire that Talos founded before ascending to godhood, is to turn their back on Talos himself! Tiber septim would not have wanted this, he was a warrior and a strategist himself who possessed great power, but power alone doesn’t found the empire, and unite all of mankind under one banner, smart thinking, pivotal advice from intellectual people, guidance from those who seek and don’t seek what you desire, are all important parts of what made Tiber septim who he was, and that’s what the Nords of Skyrim aren’t understanding.
The Empire is doing what they have to do to rebuild their forces and make adjustments so that they can take up arms to achieve victory, they were very close the first time, and now the dominion are comfortable, they are under the impression that they have everything in the bag, and are banking on the Empire and Rebellion alike being severely weakened, in order for them to achieve victory and gain ultimate control over Tamriel, however the empire know this, and are laying low and rebuilding, and remodelling their military to eradicate the Thalmor, it’s likely that the Thalmor are too powerful to be bested by the stormcloaks, and are merely using them to weaken the empire, however what they can’t have is an empire at full capacity, which is why elenwen went to helgen to attempt to intervene in keeping ulfrics head off the block, if she feared the rebellion, she’d have let him die, what she was fearing was having no gators that are the stormcloaks at the river shore slowly eating away at the land habitants that are the empire , as without this, the empire can slowly become and/or surpass, the superpower that nearly defeated the dominion in the first war, and the terms of the white gold agreement, as stated by the imperial legion to the player, is nothing more than a temporary strategic yield, to keep the Dominion comfortable and happy where they are in the summeset isle, where their prying eyes can’t see all of what’s going on in Cyrodiil.
Lastly, Ulfric is no king, he’s a coward, he murdered someone who admired and looked up to him, challenged him to a battle he knew he’d easily win and still used the ancient power of the thuum to mangle torrygg before ending his life, worse off Torygg was under the assumption Ulfric was arriving to suggest a moot or make his case again for Skyrim to deviate from the empire and become independant, to which the woman who raised Torygg, and was the blue palaces Court wizard, said Torygg would’ve likely agreed with. But no, kill someone who’s basically a child to you, In his early 20’s while you’re a 54 year old war hero, wielding second to none skills in warfare among nords and possessing a power that no other living man asides from the Dragonborn hero and the greybeards have access to, doesn’t seem very honourable to me, if anything, Torygg died with honour, he was a true Nord in this scenario, he knew he was f**ked, and still agreed to fight, and ended up being killed, when not all duels had to end in death, and it’s likely that had he been spared, he’d have happily stepped down as high king , that would’ve been ulfrics rightful claim to the throne, a fair contest between two men’s sword arms, both live to see the next moot and in consideration of the duel, and what it was being fought for, the jarls would likely have all agreed to have Ulfric sat on the high kings throne, but his sadistic killling of An inexperienced king, who was no warrior, who was sat on the throne by way of circumstance, at the forefront of an issue bigger than what he was equipped or experienced enough to deal with as a man in his early 20’s, shows a lot about Ulfric, this was a power hungry move.
very much this ^
@@zrugel yeah bro, people who understand strategy and timing realise that the stormcloaks are a means to an end and are the easiest faction out of the two for the Thalmor to defeat, an empire who has rebuilded and re-strategised actually stands a chance of winning. The stormcloaks are nothing but a parasite that the Thalmor are using to eat away slowly at the empires numbers, while exhausting themselves, if the two sides keep fighting, eventually there’ll be no rebellion, but also, the empire will be too weak to ever hope to re muster and wage war for ages and it’ll just take them even longer to regain strength, what the Nords like Galmar and Ulfric don’t realise is that the empire signed the white gold agreement as a temporary truce to stop war, those conditions aren’t indefinitely in place, of course the empire isn’t openly admitting this, and it’s a part of anterior motive, but hey, the Thalmor also are funding the empires weakening by giving weapons secretly to the stormcloaks, armoring their troops, that’s why balgruuf was shocked to know the stormcloaks had catapults, they didn’t have the means to buy all that on their own, so the empire is calculating, cunning, and playing it wise
All that is under the assumption the Empire is run by people at odds with the Thalmor which isn't something I think is true.
There might be old generals like Tullius but hes not in charge, the Elder Council is and from the DB quest I get the impression they are Thalmor puppets.
Lasty, the idea that Skyrim would be unable to fight the Thalmor has already been proven wrong with the case of Hammerfell
@@anonymousanon6913 wrong, hammer fell won largely due to their terrain being harsh and dangerous, they knew how to use the terrain to their advantage and then wrecked the dominion and drove them out once the terrain had crippled their ranks, Skyrim is relatively easy to enter and fight on the terrain
1776
The Stormcloaks have the right idea, wrong leader. The Imperials have entirely erased their old pantheon and culture, so Skyrim should try to regain its old pantheon of Shor.
Ulfric isn’t worthy of the title of High King because he misused the voice. Regardless of the trial by combat was fair, the voice isn’t supposed to be used for that. He lost any claim to the throne after abusing the voice like that and disrespecting the old nordic culture.
I see where you're coming from but I disagree. Jarl elisif does imply that she supports them, but have you ever thought she's lying to you? The whole plan the empire has is to play on the elves' arrogance. What's the best way to do that? Make them think they've won and strike when they are complacent. You never know who is listening in that situation. Freedom is worth fighting for, I agree with ulfric on that, but skyrim fighting on its own against the thalmor like hammerfell will only get more nords killed that don't need to be. A counter to that might be, nords are dying anyway, true but would they be if you stopped fighting back and stuck to the plan. Observe talos worship in secret, keep it to yourself and we bide our time. We want the thalmor fat and lazy, only makes it easier to kill them. Like general tullius says, there is another war coming. Beat them back decisively on a unified front. If they are complacent enough they can be pushed back to the Summerset isles. In my mind, the only difference between the storm cloaks and the imperials is timing and patience. One has it and one does not, I think that's pretty clear
Based! Chad shout your enemies to death and take pride in your people enjoyer.
I get what you say is truth but what is also truth however is as you say as well is a divide group of men being the stormcloaks and the empire is too easy for the thamor to do whatever they want too
It’s also worth noting that, Alvor mentions that the thing about Thalmor taking away Skyrim citizens didn’t start until Ulfric and his Stormcloaks started making a fuss about it. So if that’s to be believed, it would mean that initially, the Empire did keep the Thalmor out of Skyrim, but then the Stormcloaks ruined that.