Wait, Ryan Day said they "heard" Michigan was stealing signs so they changed their signs before last years game. Plus, we now know that OSU had Michigans plays, we've seen the sheets. So last year, Michigan did NOT have OSU signs according to Day, OSU DID have Michigans signs and Michigan beat CJ Stroud and OSU WORSE than the year before!
Brockman's point about CJ Stroud vs Michigan is one I've heard a number of times. Except it's demonstrably false. Stroud had 1 bad quarter in 2 games. Going into the 4th quarter in 2022 he had over 600 yards with 5 TDS an no INT in his 7 quarters vs Michigan. That includes Olave dropping what should have been a TD in 2021.
Not to mention, Michigan’s defensive scheme is to fan but not break and not give up the big play and then when I team gets say the 20 yard line the clamp down. Bottom line you need to score points !!
Chris, OSU knew that Michigan was stealing signs before the 2022 game and changed their signs…OSU has come out and said so. CJ Stroud’s performance and his loss to Michigan in 2022 had nothing to do with sign stealing.
@@seanschroeder2137 Harbaugh would have been coaching either way...there was no expectation at the end of the 2021 season that UM would beat a solid OSU. UM would have restructured (downward) his contract with or without a loss, and Harbaugh would then have made the same decisions to massively restructure his coaching staff and redevelop UM into a strong, tough, run-first team focused on playing complementary football.
I played major college football in my younger days. Against rivals and teams we played often, we changed up signals and calls. We had dummy calls, fake calls, opposite calls, and dummy signals. Its common sense. Use their "cheating" against them. To not do that is lazy coaching and its easier to complain and cry than it is to actually change something up.
@@jjgreen5206 Like I said...its just easier to complain and whine for most of yall. I guess youve also never heard of Scouts and sending coaches to scout teams that are on your upcoming schedule. Thats never been thing?
Yea but if they’re studying your every game, then they’re even creating a system to decipher your dummy calls. What’s being alleged is a much more sophisticated system of decoding signs by scouting teams throughout the entire season.
In CJ Stroud's 25 games in the 2021 and 2022 seasons, the games against Michigan were in 17th and 23rd place in terms of his passer rating. The 2021 game in particular he was 34/49 for 394 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT, his passer rating is weighed down by a shitload of throwing attempts because they played from behind. His games against Penn State were his 15th and 18th place performances. His 2022 game against Michigan also wasn't his only 2 INT performance, he also did that against Nebraska in 2021. And by far, by far, the worst performance of his college career was against Northwestern -- 38% completion percentage. I really don't think the whole "poor CJ" thing holds any water. He had some good games, some bad games, and produced performances below his median in all 4 of his games against their biggest in-division rivals.
i dont think it matters. Even if michigan had lost they cheated. all this distraction tactic doesnt work or change the facts. If one thing is against the rules the results shouldn't impact the thought on it.
So if the facts regarding Ohio and Rutgers sharing their information regarding Michigan’s offensive and defensive signals with Purdue are confirmed, you are ok with Day getting a two game suspension per the B1G sportsmanship policy? That sir is cheating by Cryin Ryan
Btw it’s also proof that having the signs isn’t always that big of a deal. Michigan won the game even though Purdue was fed the signals from cheaters Ohio n Rutgers prior to the championship game!
But they fucking weren’t. Unless I’m missing the part where those other schools were spending thousands of dollars to send scouts to their opponents games to record their signs so that they could sync it with the all 22 to know exactly what plays were being called so they could call the best play to counter it. I must have missed the reports that other schools were doing that exact thing…
Only Michigan fans are saying that nonsense. Michigan is the only institution spreading these false narratives to take the heat off of them. The NCAA and the B1G aren’t even looking into the crazy stuff that’s being leaked out about other teams because they’ve already known that nothing is there. Michigan is the only team caught cheating.
@@tylervorst2504they were compiling Michigan's signs and sharing it with other teams. Which is actually worse. Michigan/Stalions did it for themselves against everyone. They did it purely to beat Michigan... and silence from the Big 10 AND the NCAA.
@@tylervorst2504 Other schools WERE doing this exact thing stop pretending they weren't,...Hell,..Any Fan, Any where, can film signals on their cell phone and send them to their favorite team,....OMG! Such outrage for cheating when everyone does it even FANS!!!. If the NCAA and the Big ten want to get rid of this bullshit then they should spend some of the Millions they make off these games and the players and upgrade their tech by putting radio's in the Helmets like the NFL does and then you wouldn't have this problem any more. But I get it,..It's easier to believe Michigan was cheating and that is why they beat your team rather than the obvious and they were just better than your team was. Did you SEE the Penn State game? Tell me again how the cheated,... Whiner
@@tylervorst2504Connor Stalions’ net worth is 5 million. His family is very wealthy. He did this on his own to make it appear he was smart enough to figure signs out during Michigan games. Have you seen any of his Manifesto?
I like Jim Harbaugh, but this is a bad take.“Everyone breaks the rules, so it’s ok”. That’s weak. We wouldn’t let children get away with thinking that’s ok, so why would we do that for adults?
Patiti is a TV rights guy. His bonus is all about selling TV rights for the maximum $$$. He doesn't care at all about coaches flirting with the NFL or coaches personalities.
I'm an Ohio State fan. I don't necessarily care about the sign stealing. I care more about the lying/deceptive part. Jim Tressel was caught lying to the NCAA and lost his job. I'd like consistency, and yes, the fact that it's Michigan makes it easier to say. I know I'm biased.
Teams have been stealing signs for ever. I played class D highschool football 50 years ago that had adult friends of the team , scouting other schools and reporting back to the coaches. Let it go.
Exactly like watching tape....from footage that was recorded illegally, unlike watching in person during a game your team is playing against the team who's signs your stealing. The only thing learned by watching game film is formations and plays, you don't see the signs being signaled in. This is amazing how difficult it is for you folks to grasp this.
Nope, sure doesn't, but if being a cheater doesn't bother you then there's no point in even talking with you. Sounds like you won't get the punishment you deserve but luckily we won't have to worry about you guys after this year@@ShortyMcvay517
**My two cents:** There is enough evidence to indefinitely suspend both Jim & Michigan football for the remainder of the year - with a more strenuous punishment possible upon further investigation ...
If Rich and Suzy defended Astros like this then it would be a good take. Rich Eisen is a bias sports head. Suzy and Chris support the biggest cheaters in football so they should understand.
IMHO, this so called “scandal” only benefits the TV networks, social media, and the Universities themselves. No one is going to prison because these are rules “violations” not violations of state or federal law. I fully anticipate the “scandal” to linger on for the remainder of the season and into the National Championships. From this point forward, NOT A SINGLE TEAM should consider their signals safe.
There are student athletes from B1G schools who have been cheated out, in many cases, their entire student-athlete tenure. They work hard; they check boxes. They should not incur the consequences of cheating while the cheaters get off free. Take the Michigan flag down
You truly believe that’s any one person can know what 150 other people are doing every minute or every single day? You are delusional to say the least. Just because at your local Taco Bell you know what 10 people are doing don’t make it the same.
That’s Rich Eisen’s wife? Shheeeooot!! Lucky guy. And she is the best mom ever! She takes this gnarly sign stealing story, who’s she worried about? “The kids.” Not “the players.” The *kids*. What a mom!! So awesome!!
I like Suzy, but she’s completely missing the point here. Sign stealing is legal. Paying a network of people to go steal the entire sign system over the course of multiple games is what’s against the rules and what Michigan did. They were caught doing it not only in years past but THIS season. This group of players is who benefitted from it, and if any punishment is going to befall Michigan players it should be this group and not some group years down the line who had absolutely nothing to do with this. Someone else said this but it’s very true: what Rutgers/osu did was take a test in 1st period and told their friend (Purdue) what was on the test in 3rd period. Michigan stole the answer sheet out of the teachers desk.
If Big Ten punishes Michigan without due process it would be acting in bad faith, and Michigan could withdraw from Big Ten immediately. Big Ten may lose nearly half of it's revenue as Michigan becomes an independent school while it weighs its options.
Michigan going independent is far less lucrative than staying..I mean let's not pretend that their athletic dept. is #1 in the conference because it is not.
Takes like these or why she's no longer employed by a reputable network. She's just riding for her husband a Michigan alum. If she doesn't, he'll have to find a legitimate replacement host and Rich will have to sleep on the couch. Chris has a fair take.
Dude had over 300 yds passing in both and "he had two of his worst games against Michigan". Couldn't be that Ohio State couldn't stop the run or giving up big plays.
@@davidsmith5766it’s just so weird how Michigan was calling run plays on 3rd downs that were obvious passing downs and somehow running into the exact gap where the blitz was vacating in the 4th quarter…
@@benmeaige4306what u missing is osu had both those plays dead to rights...tgey had the right to blow up the run...and the players missed assignments especially on the 2nd one..safety was in backfield and stopped all he had to do was keep running and he the hero on zero blitz
Hey, let's all just do away with all rules and laws in our society, so anyone can do anything with no consequences. It would be a far better world.... Yeah, right! I love how people justify breaking rules and laws just because others do it, or it doesn't matter, in their opinion. What BS! "It Matters" that our kids see what happens when rules are broken at the expense of others. I don't like this woman AT ALL! She represents everything that is wrong with our society.
What about the kids that killed themselves every week only to have the other team know their every move. Only fair to Michigan players not the ones who were cheated? This is wild
@@KZ3fpsdude, coaches talk all the time. It's open knowledge, you have a buddy that got hired at a new school. They talk. Same with players. This is open knowledge. It's not against the rules to decipher other teams signal, in real time or game tape. What's not allowed is sitting in the stands recording the other teams signs. Now UM looks like a bunch of cry baby snitches too. I'm not sure how much more simply to explain it.
@johnohrstrom5112 they did a lot more than talking. You can try to rationalize it all you want, coaches colluding together to beat one in conference team is much worse than random dudes filming shitty cell phone videos from the stands. But sure, go ahead and argue the technicality now, that's fine. Just cut the BS talk about player safety and competitive disadvantage because that's clearly bullshit now. One coaching staff versus three more than makes up for a rogue staffer in the stands
@@KZ3fps by definition its only collusion if it's against the rules. I guarantee every team gets Intel from other teams. Rationalize Stallions as much as you like. Coaches openly talk shop all the time. Filming other teams from the stands violates the rules. All of the teams in the league were talking about UM sign stealing, that's talking shop too. Was that collusion?
@johnohrstrom5112 again, they did more than "talk shop". They shared Michigan's signals. Multiple teams pooling together resources to beat one team is by definition anti-sportsman. I never rationalized Stallions actions, so swing and a miss there. If what he did broke rules he should be punished and Harbaugh should be hit with a level 3 institutional control violation and punished as well.
Chris Brockman thoughts on Harbaugh is exactly what Michigan fans are talking about. People don't care about the infractions, they care about WHO committed the infractions. Dan Wetzle article today had it right
The media cares because the Michigan name resonates. It is a top five brand college sports. It makes for popular talking head shows and clicks. The rest of the Big Ten coaches care because as was once said of Harbaugh of why he was out in San Francisco that he wasn't "in it to make friends" which is why by the end he had no friends in the building. As for the rest of the Big Ten's fan base, it is that Michigan is viewed as a rival to every other Big Ten team in a way that isn't always reciprocated. The only comparison really is Texas where it views Oklahoma as a rival. Every other school in the Big XII has viewed Texas as a rival, and that goes beyond just football. Every Big Ten school with the possible exceptions of relatively recent additions Nebraska, Maryland, and Rutgers view Michigan as a major rival. Now, that said, Michigan broke the rules. They have been caught red-handed. The only issue at hand is what is the appropriate punishment for the infraction, and that is always an issue with rule breaking in college sports. Fans of the team will defend and dismiss anything. Opposing fans will want blood. When there is no real precedent for a rule, it gets murky, which is why this story has such legs. Nobody thought teams would break the covid recruiting rules, so there was no punishment added to the agreed rule when it passed. Nobody gave any thought to these sign stealing rules, so there is nothing to work off leaving people to run wild with it.
Yeah Brockman just clearly has his opinion on Harbaugh & doesn't like him, thus his comments. But Harbaugh's players and coaches do like him and it has nothing to do with this stupid "scandal".
Suzy is CLOSE to being spot on. The only thing she’s wrong about is that sign stealing is NOT illegal. HOW you steal signs is where rules are written. It can be argued that if illegal sign stealing breaks the Big Ten conference’s sportsmanship policy, then teams sharing the signs of one specific team (AKA collusion to target that one team) should also be a breach of the sportsmanship policy. It all depends on what the sportsmanship policy means to the commissioner, as he is the sole definer of it
@@faceones yeah it’s hardly a serious crime. If other big 10 schools have Michigan’s signs then what’s the big deal if Michigan went about it differently? And not even Michigan as a whole, one rogue employee who went overboard
No one felt sorry for the kids on the 12-0 OSU team that lost out on a chance to play in the BCS title game in 2012 because of the two year bowl ban (tattoo gate). Why would anyone feel sorry about these UofM kids?
Is that Chris guy paying attention at all or just parroting false info on the net? Harbaugh didn't lie to NCAA about the hamburger. He said he didn't remember and didn't deny it may have happened. CJ Stroud put up huge numbers against UM two years in a row. It was poor OL play and lack of defense why OSU lost. Stroud kept them in it. Do your homework.
Michigan apologists are hilarious. No smoking gun? Ticket receipts, TV and security footage, expenditure reports / scouting budget, venmo transactions, Conor's own text messages? And this is only the information that has been leaked.
So are we concerned for Hendon Hooker and the players that got cheated? Or we just concerned for the poor UM players who are the ones benefiting from the cheating.
@@MarkyMark1221 I’m actually not a Tennessee fan at all. I’m a rational human who can see there is a lot more nuance to this than just OSU vs UM. Michigan cheated more than just the B10 according to these allegations.
She doesn’t care because it appears she doesn’t understand what rules were broken. Using the comparison of Purdue and OSU also stealing signs is proof.
If anything is just proof that it’s a lame rule. Are they guilty? Sure. Is it a big deal? Nope. That’s why the NCAA considers it to be a minor, level 3 violation.
Stroud didnt have bad games against Michigan, his team just lost those games, there's a difference. 2021: 394 yds 2 TDs; 2022: 349 yds 2 TDs. Yeah, terrible...shut up.
The "everybody does it" defense has been the number one defense in every criminal trial. Try telling the cop who stops you for speeding "everybody does it" and see if you get off. Michigan broke both recruiting rules and the scouting rules and they should be punished like any other NCAA school. If Michigan doesn't like having to follow NCAA rules, Michigan should leave the NCAA.
So now ALL the opposing teams have an ample amount of time and opportunity to change their signs. So now I’m curious to hear what their excuses will be when they lose to Michigan. And I’m planning on taking full advantage of this “scandal” as the odd’s makers set the various wager lines.
Coaches share info all the time, it is legal. Dressing up as a CMU coach w video recording glasses is different, so is buying tickets to opponent's games and video recording from both sides of the stadium. Trying to equate the 2 is embarrassing.
Rutgers had all of Michigan's defensive signs and still lost 52-17. Ohio State had all of Michigan's offensive signs and still lost 45-23. Purdue had everything and still lost 43-22. If knowing the other teams signs is a "substantial competitive advantage" how did U-M blow all of these teams out? This all just about scouting. No criminal activity, no guns, no drugs, no drunk driving, no bribery, no steroids, no academic fraud. Most people have the common sense to see it as a minor side issue with little affect on games.
Did anyone care about Ohio State's legacy when they went 12-0 but couldn't participate in the post season? Do people realize Jim Tressel was penalized for something that no one would bat an eye at in today's NCAA? The fact of the matter is sign stealing isn't the problem. How they did it was a clear violation of NCAA rules. That makes them ineligible. Maybe they have a good team that could win without that. That makes this even more sad. Maybe they could've won without cheating, but they did cheat and need to be penalized.
I don’t care about half of the rules in the NCAA or Big Ten, still can’t break em. Clearly we need a 3rd party governing body and due process. Can’t wait until the media moves on from this.
The stakes are too high, because of the money. Michigan isn't fighting for a championship. They are fighting for a $100 million (or more) payday. 20+ years ago UM said their national championship was worth over $25 million, and that was when TV deals were much smaller and there were no playoff games. What happens to the kids, what this all does to them, gets lost just like Suzy says.
OSU said they were worried about Michigan having their signs last year, and publicly came out and said they changed their signs before they played Michigan. Chris Brockman said Stroud didn’t play well last year and that is not true. Stroud actually a good game when he played Michigan. The reason OSU didn’t play well last year was because the Michigan defense was stellar.
Electronic devices aren't allowed to be used by whom? When Day and Schiano recorded the all-22 coaches film, with electronic devices, broke it down, analyzed it, matched then plays and signals, held conference calls, with other coaches to compare notes, wrote a report, and then gave it to a future Michigan B1G championship opponent, they just became an advanced scout. Seriously? That's not advanced scouting but Random Joe with an iPhone is??? If A is not an enforceable offense, then neither is B. WTF are we even talking about?
What about the kids for all the other teams who were cheated out of a fair up-and-up football game for the last 3 years? Michigan and it’s players are not the victims in this saga. They are the perpetrators.
Uh. This is apologetics for cheating. The Michigan Man's persona is defined by being moral and not cheating, is it not? This isn't about sign stealing, alone, it's about a very black-and-white rule that you cannot advance scout other teams. Michigan was clearly doing this, comically so. They had a staffer dress up in disguise, pay a network of other people to scout their opponents to steal signs--to have patterns to *overcome* the changing of signs to combat the stealing that everyone does, legally, by observing their opponents in the midst of their games. Why should we feel bad about the Michigan players? What about all the other players on the other Big Ten schools that were impacted by Michigan having this unfair advantage gleaned by cheating? The idea that knowing what play is coming isn't an advantage is absurd. Truly absurd. Especially in a game like football, where plays are so meticulously scripted. I have no dog in this fight. I'm a Hoya. But the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming, not only with Michigan being strong in the second half of games after being poor in the first half (thus benefiting from the advanced scouting and decoding of their opponents changed signs) plus that their massive turn around coincided with Stalions cheating the last three years; it's an absurd position to take. Harbaugh's record before and after the installation of this cheating scheme is stark. The sooner Michigan fans (and their enablers) accept this, the better.
Let’s do an experiment. Set up your starting offense against your starting defense. Offense will run the same play 10 times in a row. Each time the play is ran each defensive position will coach each player on defense to stop the play. After 10 plays do you think the offense will gain the same yards as they did the first time they ran the play?
Looks like that’s not true. We now know that last year, Michigan didn’t have OSU’s signs because OSU changed their signs before the game, and we know that Ohio State actually had Michigan’s signs, but Michigan still won by 3 touchdowns. OSU, Purdue, and Rutgers cheated, but you know what? No one cares.
The issue with the "we have to think about the Michigan players futures too" talk is that the cheating directly affects other kids ability to play in the NFL and future careers. Let's say Penn State losses to Michigan, partly because of the cheating, and then 1 or 2 players on that team put up bad film and go undrafted.
My thing is if your Caught cheating the coaches and the university were involved then I think you need to take away scholarships for the future like for 3 years and a heavy fine not playoff or bowel eligibility for 4 years the following year starting . No punishment for the players because there doing what the coach says but the punishment should be severe enough that any University should think twice about doing it. There has to be rules unfortunately your not going to change how people feel, and think if they think your a cheater. That’s why not only this but In life we all have to be careful what we do because it impacts not just us but everyone around us.
Michigan did it differently then Purdue. Which was legal. Not everyone is after hairbough, he needs to get his football program in order a lot more then stealing signs going on. Michigan has his back.
Was it legal? Someone who was at a game Purdue wasn't playing in against Michigan gave them the signs. Splitting that hair pretty fine to find distance between that and Michgan. They didn't plan the in person scouting, but it was done for them.
Michigan broke a NCAA rule and there should be a punishment for that. But its an obscure rule based on financial grounds - you can't have staff attend other games because its expensive. It doesn't give a competitive advantage, because everyone steals signs (not against the rules). And because everyone steals signs,, its not a sportsmanship thing either. You can't tell me that what Purdue had last year was more sportsmanlike than what Michigan had. And Suzy is right - there is no evidence that anyone at Michigan knew about it - other than Stallions.
It's not fair that players get punished, but how else do you punish the program so they get the message? By letting the future players know that it will affect them if they play for this team and they should go somewhere else instead. This might be a cruel solution, but there is a transfer portal so these players have options. Make the punishment consequential for the program. Cheating is cheating, doesn't matter how much. It's about INTEGRITY of the game. Even if Michigan was good enough to make it to national title game, because they got 'help' getting there means they didn't earn it in the right way. Let them sit and watch others play. Lesson for the league. Perhaps a bad example, but look at speeding. Most people do it. Few get caught. They don't get out of it by saying 'everyone does it'.
Stealing signs offers little to know advantage. Every team steals signs. Every team changes their signs. Why is this even a thing? Its an outdated rule.
"Everybody does it" is the most lame excuse for what happened. Nobody does what Michigan did. We have absolutely no way of knowing if they had an advantage or not. It doesn't matter. Undisputable evidence shows that a Michigan assistant DID violate NCAA rules. And you can debate all day about whether Harbaugh knew or not, if he didn't know then he should fired by UofM for lack organizational control. How can you deny that Stallion was was standing within Harbaugh's earshot while giving input to both coordinators. If you had lost to Penn State and they did what UofM did, the entire Michigan fanbase would echo exactly about Franklin, what I just said about Harbaugh. Stealing signs isn't illegal, breaking NCCA rules is. Own it.
As a Hoosier fan, I am OUTRAGED! If Michigan hadn’t stolen our signs, they’d have only beat us by 42 instead of 45! /s 😂
😂😂😂😂
You never know. It might've only been by 39 lol. Cheating still deserves punishment 🤷♂️
Lmao 💯
It looked like you all had Michigan’s signs the first quarter. Hoosiers dominated Michigan the first 12 minutes! 😂
Exactly …funny!
Purdue had Michigan's signs last year in the Big 10 championship and they lost by 3 touchdowns.
The game was closer than it should have been at half
Purdue can't be in the big ten championship they aren't a west team
Purdue knows their own signs and still doesn't run those plays very well.
Not true, more misinformation by Bichigan homers.
@@wattsinc. Look up the divisions. You are 100% wrong.
Wait, Ryan Day said they "heard" Michigan was stealing signs so they changed their signs before last years game. Plus, we now know that OSU had Michigans plays, we've seen the sheets. So last year, Michigan did NOT have OSU signs according to Day, OSU DID have Michigans signs and Michigan beat CJ Stroud and OSU WORSE than the year before!
Facts
Well look at you trying turn the narrative around. Good for you, buddy 👍😂. But, no matter how many times you polish a turd, it's still a turd. 😂
I love people who state stuff as fact out of thin air. "We know..." Seen what sheets... who are you?
@@FLBuckeye The sheets that were published in the Wall Street Journal. You don't have to be special to hear these things.
@@FLBuckeye um, the ones they sent to Purdue that were published yesterday?
Brockman's point about CJ Stroud vs Michigan is one I've heard a number of times. Except it's demonstrably false. Stroud had 1 bad quarter in 2 games. Going into the 4th quarter in 2022 he had over 600 yards with 5 TDS an no INT in his 7 quarters vs Michigan. That includes Olave dropping what should have been a TD in 2021.
Yep it’s not like we shut him down completely he still put up tons of yards and tds
Who cares about the Yards, when they didn't lead to points, and when they needed the Yards THAT MATTER, he couldn't produce them?
Who knew CJ was missing all those tackles last year!
Not to mention, Michigan’s defensive scheme is to fan but not break and not give up the big play and then when I team gets say the 20 yard line the clamp down.
Bottom line you need to score points !!
@@Huron2010A😂
CJ Stroud put up monster stats last 2 games against Michigan, it's the rest of the team that blew it, mainly their defense.
Yeah, that dummy is just looking for excuses. OSU's defense gave up 4 huge plays of 69, 75, 85 and 75 yards that were the difference maker.
Chris, OSU knew that Michigan was stealing signs before the 2022 game and changed their signs…OSU has come out and said so. CJ Stroud’s performance and his loss to Michigan in 2022 had nothing to do with sign stealing.
Stroud actually had good statistical games against Michigan. It wasn't his fault his defense couldn't tackle!
That was a CRAZY bias take. Chris is on the OSU message boards.
@@daviddurham5802I was just coming here to say the same… Stroud went 65-97 for 743 and 4TDs combined. They lost because they’re soft up front!
What about 2021? And let's not forget that if Harbaugh would've played OSU in 2020 he wouldn't even be coaching right now!
@@seanschroeder2137 Harbaugh would have been coaching either way...there was no expectation at the end of the 2021 season that UM would beat a solid OSU. UM would have restructured (downward) his contract with or without a loss, and Harbaugh would then have made the same decisions to massively restructure his coaching staff and redevelop UM into a strong, tough, run-first team focused on playing complementary football.
I played major college football in my younger days. Against rivals and teams we played often, we changed up signals and calls. We had dummy calls, fake calls, opposite calls, and dummy signals. Its common sense. Use their "cheating" against them. To not do that is lazy coaching and its easier to complain and cry than it is to actually change something up.
No you didn’t. And this isn’t sign stealing during games. It’s a cheating system.
@@jjgreen5206 Like I said...its just easier to complain and whine for most of yall. I guess youve also never heard of Scouts and sending coaches to scout teams that are on your upcoming schedule. Thats never been thing?
Yea but if they’re studying your every game, then they’re even creating a system to decipher your dummy calls. What’s being alleged is a much more sophisticated system of decoding signs by scouting teams throughout the entire season.
To the dumb Mich football staff: Be better at cheating and don't get caught.
I've been saying this since day one!
In CJ Stroud's 25 games in the 2021 and 2022 seasons, the games against Michigan were in 17th and 23rd place in terms of his passer rating. The 2021 game in particular he was 34/49 for 394 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT, his passer rating is weighed down by a shitload of throwing attempts because they played from behind. His games against Penn State were his 15th and 18th place performances. His 2022 game against Michigan also wasn't his only 2 INT performance, he also did that against Nebraska in 2021. And by far, by far, the worst performance of his college career was against Northwestern -- 38% completion percentage.
I really don't think the whole "poor CJ" thing holds any water. He had some good games, some bad games, and produced performances below his median in all 4 of his games against their biggest in-division rivals.
i dont think it matters. Even if michigan had lost they cheated. all this distraction tactic doesnt work or change the facts. If one thing is against the rules the results shouldn't impact the thought on it.
Exactly. Well said.
His game against NW was in a massive storm. Shhhhh
So if the facts regarding Ohio and Rutgers sharing their information regarding Michigan’s offensive and defensive signals with Purdue are confirmed, you are ok with Day getting a two game suspension per the B1G sportsmanship policy? That sir is cheating by Cryin Ryan
Btw it’s also proof that having the signs isn’t always that big of a deal. Michigan won the game even though Purdue was fed the signals from cheaters Ohio n Rutgers prior to the championship game!
“I’m not a Michigan apologist” goes on to be a Michigan apologist
you saw that? ...lol
"I'm not a Michigan apologist... I have a Michigan flag flying in my backyard" 🤨 TF!?
Hard to give the NCAA benefit of doubt when they are attacking one institution for the dumbest things when other teams are caught doing the same thing
But they fucking weren’t. Unless I’m missing the part where those other schools were spending thousands of dollars to send scouts to their opponents games to record their signs so that they could sync it with the all 22 to know exactly what plays were being called so they could call the best play to counter it. I must have missed the reports that other schools were doing that exact thing…
Only Michigan fans are saying that nonsense. Michigan is the only institution spreading these false narratives to take the heat off of them. The NCAA and the B1G aren’t even looking into the crazy stuff that’s being leaked out about other teams because they’ve already known that nothing is there. Michigan is the only team caught cheating.
@@tylervorst2504they were compiling Michigan's signs and sharing it with other teams.
Which is actually worse.
Michigan/Stalions did it for themselves against everyone.
They did it purely to beat Michigan... and silence from the Big 10 AND the NCAA.
@@tylervorst2504 Other schools WERE doing this exact thing stop pretending they weren't,...Hell,..Any Fan, Any where, can film signals on their cell phone and send them to their favorite team,....OMG! Such outrage for cheating when everyone does it even FANS!!!. If the NCAA and the Big ten want to get rid of this bullshit then they should spend some of the Millions they make off these games and the players and upgrade their tech by putting radio's in the Helmets like the NFL does and then you wouldn't have this problem any more. But I get it,..It's easier to believe Michigan was cheating and that is why they beat your team rather than the obvious and they were just better than your team was. Did you SEE the Penn State game? Tell me again how the cheated,... Whiner
@@tylervorst2504Connor Stalions’ net worth is 5 million. His family is very wealthy. He did this on his own to make it appear he was smart enough to figure signs out during Michigan games. Have you seen any of his Manifesto?
If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying.
If you get caught, you weren't trying hard enough.
I like Jim Harbaugh, but this is a bad take.“Everyone breaks the rules, so it’s ok”. That’s weak. We wouldn’t let children get away with thinking that’s ok, so why would we do that for adults?
It is extremely weak to justify the breaking of rules simply because others do it. That is a childish response from adults who should know better.
Patiti is a TV rights guy. His bonus is all about selling TV rights for the maximum $$$. He doesn't care at all about coaches flirting with the NFL or coaches personalities.
Well she’s a Pats fan so of course she doesn’t care about cheating scandals.
I'm an Ohio State fan. I don't necessarily care about the sign stealing. I care more about the lying/deceptive part. Jim Tressel was caught lying to the NCAA and lost his job. I'd like consistency, and yes, the fact that it's Michigan makes it easier to say. I know I'm biased.
Cheating is cheating period. It's disgusting that you're downplaying it
It’s about the kids now but what about the kids who was cheated out of opportunities by michigans stealing ?
Teams have been stealing signs for ever. I played class D highschool football 50 years ago that had adult friends of the team , scouting other schools and reporting back to the coaches. Let it go.
Michigan cheated and Rich wants it to not mean anything. Rich was singing an different tune when it was tattoos though. What a chump.
FACT!
"It's not fair to the kids!!!!"...ok, what about the kids playing against them? Is it fair to them?
Happens everyday lol.
Everyone steals signs.
Its just like watching tape
COPE
Exactly like watching tape....from footage that was recorded illegally, unlike watching in person during a game your team is playing against the team who's signs your stealing. The only thing learned by watching game film is formations and plays, you don't see the signs being signaled in. This is amazing how difficult it is for you folks to grasp this.
@@buckeyechuck8280 boo f'n whooo. Happens every day lol
Nope, sure doesn't, but if being a cheater doesn't bother you then there's no point in even talking with you. Sounds like you won't get the punishment you deserve but luckily we won't have to worry about you guys after this year@@ShortyMcvay517
How about the kids who don't have a legacy because they lost to cheaters?
Ohio st had Michigan's signs
Brockman, there are a couple gates sitting at your desk… you should cover that patriots helmet when talking about this 😂
**My two cents:** There is enough evidence to indefinitely suspend both Jim & Michigan football for the remainder of the year - with a more strenuous punishment possible upon further investigation ...
CJ Stroud balled against everybody including Georgia in the playoffs but struggled against ❌ICHIGAN 👎
Sounds like something the wife of a Diehard Michigan Alum would say.
My thoughts exactly and Chris nailed it talking about stroud having 2 bad games and them being against TTUN
If Rich and Suzy defended Astros like this then it would be a good take. Rich Eisen is a bias sports head.
Suzy and Chris support the biggest cheaters in football so they should understand.
Only a Michigan lover like Rich would give Suzy any credibility. 😂. Suzy repeats what she hears... In other words... a clown.
IMHO, this so called “scandal” only benefits the TV networks, social media, and the Universities themselves. No one is going to prison because these are rules “violations” not violations of state or federal law. I fully anticipate the “scandal” to linger on for the remainder of the season and into the National Championships. From this point forward, NOT A SINGLE TEAM should consider their signals safe.
There are student athletes from B1G schools who have been cheated out, in many cases, their entire student-athlete tenure. They work hard; they check boxes. They should not incur the consequences of cheating while the cheaters get off free. Take the Michigan flag down
Self-righteous are we😂😂😂GoBlue
Nice call!
Yes they do not like Harbaugh at all!
There ain’t any evidence that that Harbaugh knew what was going on, if there was it would be out.
You truly believe that’s any one person can know what 150 other people are doing every minute or every single day?
You are delusional to say the least.
Just because at your local Taco Bell you know what 10 people are doing don’t make it the same.
@@UofMForLifeHe didnt know the guy standing next to him on the sideline calling out every play for the other team?? 🤡
That’s Rich Eisen’s wife? Shheeeooot!! Lucky guy. And she is the best mom ever! She takes this gnarly sign stealing story, who’s she worried about? “The kids.” Not “the players.” The *kids*. What a mom!! So awesome!!
It's not sign stealing... it's sending people to scout teams in advance.
Her argument sounds like every spouse caught cheating. "Everyone's doing it." "Think of the kids." Stupid.
I like Suzy, but she’s completely missing the point here. Sign stealing is legal. Paying a network of people to go steal the entire sign system over the course of multiple games is what’s against the rules and what Michigan did. They were caught doing it not only in years past but THIS season. This group of players is who benefitted from it, and if any punishment is going to befall Michigan players it should be this group and not some group years down the line who had absolutely nothing to do with this. Someone else said this but it’s very true: what Rutgers/osu did was take a test in 1st period and told their friend (Purdue) what was on the test in 3rd period. Michigan stole the answer sheet out of the teachers desk.
Well said, Suzy! It's the kids that are suffering from all this.
Yeah. The kids who were at a disadvantage when they played against a cheating Michigan.
Doesn't matter most common sense fans don't care what Suzy said, she got problems of her own. Now let's move on
If Big Ten punishes Michigan without due process it would be acting in bad faith, and Michigan could withdraw from Big Ten immediately. Big Ten may lose nearly half of it's revenue as Michigan becomes an independent school while it weighs its options.
Michigan going independent is far less lucrative than staying..I mean let's not pretend that their athletic dept. is #1 in the conference because it is not.
Or Michigan could move to SEC
Imagine if a baseball team would get caught doing it. I imagine the “every does it” and “no big deal” would be the consensus opinion.
You must not remember the astros...
@@benguyton7933 you might’ve caught on to what I was alluding to.
MLB has rules against sign stealing,, the NCAA doesn't ! Giant difference Sherlock !
@@herchelleonwood7463yes it does
@herchelleonwood7463 the ncaa has rules against filming the other team's sideline
Takes like these or why she's no longer employed by a reputable network. She's just riding for her husband a Michigan alum. If she doesn't, he'll have to find a legitimate replacement host and Rich will have to sleep on the couch. Chris has a fair take.
Explain Stallion on sidelines in a disguise???
This is why they shouldn’t let women commentate on mens sports
Dude had over 300 yds passing in both and "he had two of his worst games against Michigan". Couldn't be that Ohio State couldn't stop the run or giving up big plays.
or could it be Michigan stole signs and knew what Ohio state defense was doing
@@davidsmith5766it’s just so weird how Michigan was calling run plays on 3rd downs that were obvious passing downs and somehow running into the exact gap where the blitz was vacating in the 4th quarter…
@@benmeaige4306what u missing is osu had both those plays dead to rights...tgey had the right to blow up the run...and the players missed assignments especially on the 2nd one..safety was in backfield and stopped all he had to do was keep running and he the hero on zero blitz
Amen and OSU is going to get more of the same come November 25th. Hope Day has brushed up his Resume😂😂😂
Hey, let's all just do away with all rules and laws in our society, so anyone can do anything with no consequences. It would be a far better world....
Yeah, right!
I love how people justify breaking rules and laws just because others do it, or it doesn't matter, in their opinion. What BS!
"It Matters" that our kids see what happens when rules are broken at the expense of others.
I don't like this woman AT ALL! She represents everything that is wrong with our society.
What about the kids that killed themselves every week only to have the other team know their every move. Only fair to Michigan players not the ones who were cheated? This is wild
Are you referencing Michigan, Purdue, Rutgers, or Ohio State knowing the other team's every move?
@@KZ3fpsdude, coaches talk all the time.
It's open knowledge, you have a buddy that got hired at a new school. They talk.
Same with players.
This is open knowledge.
It's not against the rules to decipher other teams signal, in real time or game tape.
What's not allowed is sitting in the stands recording the other teams signs.
Now UM looks like a bunch of cry baby snitches too.
I'm not sure how much more simply to explain it.
@johnohrstrom5112 they did a lot more than talking. You can try to rationalize it all you want, coaches colluding together to beat one in conference team is much worse than random dudes filming shitty cell phone videos from the stands. But sure, go ahead and argue the technicality now, that's fine. Just cut the BS talk about player safety and competitive disadvantage because that's clearly bullshit now. One coaching staff versus three more than makes up for a rogue staffer in the stands
@@KZ3fps by definition its only collusion if it's against the rules.
I guarantee every team gets Intel from other teams.
Rationalize Stallions as much as you like.
Coaches openly talk shop all the time.
Filming other teams from the stands violates the rules.
All of the teams in the league were talking about UM sign stealing, that's talking shop too.
Was that collusion?
@johnohrstrom5112 again, they did more than "talk shop". They shared Michigan's signals. Multiple teams pooling together resources to beat one team is by definition anti-sportsman.
I never rationalized Stallions actions, so swing and a miss there. If what he did broke rules he should be punished and Harbaugh should be hit with a level 3 institutional control violation and punished as well.
No, Chris said what everyone was thinking.
Chris Brockman thoughts on Harbaugh is exactly what Michigan fans are talking about. People don't care about the infractions, they care about WHO committed the infractions. Dan Wetzle article today had it right
The media cares because the Michigan name resonates. It is a top five brand college sports. It makes for popular talking head shows and clicks. The rest of the Big Ten coaches care because as was once said of Harbaugh of why he was out in San Francisco that he wasn't "in it to make friends" which is why by the end he had no friends in the building. As for the rest of the Big Ten's fan base, it is that Michigan is viewed as a rival to every other Big Ten team in a way that isn't always reciprocated. The only comparison really is Texas where it views Oklahoma as a rival. Every other school in the Big XII has viewed Texas as a rival, and that goes beyond just football. Every Big Ten school with the possible exceptions of relatively recent additions Nebraska, Maryland, and Rutgers view Michigan as a major rival. Now, that said, Michigan broke the rules. They have been caught red-handed. The only issue at hand is what is the appropriate punishment for the infraction, and that is always an issue with rule breaking in college sports. Fans of the team will defend and dismiss anything. Opposing fans will want blood. When there is no real precedent for a rule, it gets murky, which is why this story has such legs. Nobody thought teams would break the covid recruiting rules, so there was no punishment added to the agreed rule when it passed. Nobody gave any thought to these sign stealing rules, so there is nothing to work off leaving people to run wild with it.
Yeah Brockman just clearly has his opinion on Harbaugh & doesn't like him, thus his comments. But Harbaugh's players and coaches do like him and it has nothing to do with this stupid "scandal".
Suzy is CLOSE to being spot on. The only thing she’s wrong about is that sign stealing is NOT illegal. HOW you steal signs is where rules are written.
It can be argued that if illegal sign stealing breaks the Big Ten conference’s sportsmanship policy, then teams sharing the signs of one specific team (AKA collusion to target that one team) should also be a breach of the sportsmanship policy. It all depends on what the sportsmanship policy means to the commissioner, as he is the sole definer of it
But it is illegal the way it happened
@@faceonesit’s not illegal . It’s against ncaa rules but this isn’t a real crime
@@faceones yeah it’s hardly a serious crime. If other big 10 schools have Michigan’s signs then what’s the big deal if Michigan went about it differently? And not even Michigan as a whole, one rogue employee who went overboard
@@smh0825it’s basically like Michigan is guilty of illegal parking without a permit 😂 that’s about what this whole thing truly amounts to.
They didn't get in trouble for stealing signs, they got in trouble for scouting in person.
The MI players knew. Its on tape.
So, dont cry for the "kids"...
If you are so concerned about the "kids," you should be upset at the people that put them in this situation - the coaching staff and administration.
Thank you Suzy! Nice to see someone in the media actually get it!
Please, she is Rich Eisen's wife and another Michigan aplogist.
No she doesnt get it.
Yeah, she "gets" how to keep a good job instead of how to DO A GOOD JOB.
No one felt sorry for the kids on the 12-0 OSU team that lost out on a chance to play in the BCS title game in 2012 because of the two year bowl ban (tattoo gate). Why would anyone feel sorry about these UofM kids?
Is that Chris guy paying attention at all or just parroting false info on the net?
Harbaugh didn't lie to NCAA about the hamburger. He said he didn't remember and didn't deny it may have happened.
CJ Stroud put up huge numbers against UM two years in a row. It was poor OL play and lack of defense why OSU lost. Stroud kept them in it.
Do your homework.
Michigan apologists are hilarious. No smoking gun? Ticket receipts, TV and security footage, expenditure reports / scouting budget, venmo transactions, Conor's own text messages? And this is only the information that has been leaked.
Stroud played well against Michigan. His defense let him down
So are we concerned for Hendon Hooker and the players that got cheated? Or we just concerned for the poor UM players who are the ones benefiting from the cheating.
Not Tennessee fans making this about them 😂
@@MarkyMark1221 I’m actually not a Tennessee fan at all. I’m a rational human who can see there is a lot more nuance to this than just OSU vs UM.
Michigan cheated more than just the B10 according to these allegations.
People are just upset that Jim is doing an outstanding coaching job at Michigan. In addition, Michigan is on the brink of winning a title every year
Michigan’s reputation is ruined. At best they’ll have tainted glory.
She doesn’t care because it appears she doesn’t understand what rules were broken. Using the comparison of Purdue and OSU also stealing signs is proof.
If anything is just proof that it’s a lame rule. Are they guilty? Sure. Is it a big deal? Nope. That’s why the NCAA considers it to be a minor, level 3 violation.
People need to get over this BS. If you are stupid enough to get your signs stolen, you deserve what you get.
Stroud didnt have bad games against Michigan, his team just lost those games, there's a difference. 2021: 394 yds 2 TDs; 2022: 349 yds 2 TDs. Yeah, terrible...shut up.
That's called a lazy take
Well said. True.
The "everybody does it" defense has been the number one defense in every criminal trial. Try telling the cop who stops you for speeding "everybody does it" and see if you get off. Michigan broke both recruiting rules and the scouting rules and they should be punished like any other NCAA school. If Michigan doesn't like having to follow NCAA rules, Michigan should leave the NCAA.
So now ALL the opposing teams have an ample amount of time and opportunity to change their signs. So now I’m curious to hear what their excuses will be when they lose to Michigan. And I’m planning on taking full advantage of this “scandal” as the odd’s makers set the various wager lines.
Since when did this become the Michigan Apologist show? ASTROS 2.0. Get this right, NCAA
Coaches share info all the time, it is legal. Dressing up as a CMU coach w video recording glasses is different, so is buying tickets to opponent's games and video recording from both sides of the stadium. Trying to equate the 2 is embarrassing.
Rutgers had all of Michigan's defensive signs and still lost 52-17. Ohio State had all of Michigan's offensive signs and still lost 45-23. Purdue had everything and still lost 43-22. If knowing the other teams signs is a "substantial competitive advantage" how did U-M blow all of these teams out? This all just about scouting. No criminal activity, no guns, no drugs, no drunk driving, no bribery, no steroids, no academic fraud. Most people have the common sense to see it as a minor side issue with little affect on games.
Keep at it Chris! Don’t let bully you into thinking it’s not a bid deal
Yeah who cares about morals...good take
Did anyone care about Ohio State's legacy when they went 12-0 but couldn't participate in the post season? Do people realize Jim Tressel was penalized for something that no one would bat an eye at in today's NCAA? The fact of the matter is sign stealing isn't the problem. How they did it was a clear violation of NCAA rules. That makes them ineligible. Maybe they have a good team that could win without that. That makes this even more sad. Maybe they could've won without cheating, but they did cheat and need to be penalized.
It used to be illegal to smoke marijuana and there were consequences. Not anymore.
Do you know who had their legacy at stake? Every single player UM cheated against
If this was an SEC team, we wouldn't even be hearing about it.
The Cheeseburger thing is the single dumbest thing I've ever heard. Media has been running with this latest thing from the jump, and it's ridiculous.
I don’t care about half of the rules in the NCAA or Big Ten, still can’t break em. Clearly we need a 3rd party governing body and due process. Can’t wait until the media moves on from this.
Make no mistake, Michigan’s reputation is forever tainted.
The stakes are too high, because of the money. Michigan isn't fighting for a championship. They are fighting for a $100 million (or more) payday. 20+ years ago UM said their national championship was worth over $25 million, and that was when TV deals were much smaller and there were no playoff games. What happens to the kids, what this all does to them, gets lost just like Suzy says.
What about the kids who were robbed the last 2 years because the other team knew the plays? Can't have it both ways Toots
EXACTLY!
Are you referring to Rutgers, Purdue, and Ohio State all sharing their scouting and colluding against Michigan?
Dan Lebatard is going to have a field day with the Stu Gotz comment. 😂😂
I would be more willing to buy the "due process" argument if signs had been compromised using the techniques allowed by the rules.
OSU said they were worried about Michigan having their signs last year, and publicly came out and said they changed their signs before they played Michigan.
Chris Brockman said Stroud didn’t play well last year and that is not true. Stroud actually a good game when he played Michigan. The reason OSU didn’t play well last year was because the Michigan defense was stellar.
You're right. God forbid anyone hold coaches to a standard. Woddy Hayes never should have been fired for hitting that Clemson kid.
Electronic devices aren't allowed to be used by whom? When Day and Schiano recorded the all-22 coaches film, with electronic devices, broke it down, analyzed it, matched then plays and signals, held conference calls, with other coaches to compare notes, wrote a report, and then gave it to a future Michigan B1G championship opponent, they just became an advanced scout.
Seriously? That's not advanced scouting but Random Joe with an iPhone is??? If A is not an enforceable offense, then neither is B. WTF are we even talking about?
What about the kids for all the other teams who were cheated out of a fair up-and-up football game for the last 3 years? Michigan and it’s players are not the victims in this saga. They are the perpetrators.
FACT!
All of those teams were and are stealing signs too.
Didn't Ohio st steal Michigan's sign then give them to Purdue
Chris is 100% right
Teams that have colluded against one team in particular need to be sanctioned. OSU should be banned from the CFP and Ryan Day fired
Apologizing for cheating? "Everyone does it." And "Don't hurt those who benefited from the cheating. Think of these children!"
Uh. This is apologetics for cheating. The Michigan Man's persona is defined by being moral and not cheating, is it not? This isn't about sign stealing, alone, it's about a very black-and-white rule that you cannot advance scout other teams. Michigan was clearly doing this, comically so. They had a staffer dress up in disguise, pay a network of other people to scout their opponents to steal signs--to have patterns to *overcome* the changing of signs to combat the stealing that everyone does, legally, by observing their opponents in the midst of their games.
Why should we feel bad about the Michigan players? What about all the other players on the other Big Ten schools that were impacted by Michigan having this unfair advantage gleaned by cheating? The idea that knowing what play is coming isn't an advantage is absurd. Truly absurd. Especially in a game like football, where plays are so meticulously scripted.
I have no dog in this fight. I'm a Hoya. But the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming, not only with Michigan being strong in the second half of games after being poor in the first half (thus benefiting from the advanced scouting and decoding of their opponents changed signs) plus that their massive turn around coincided with Stalions cheating the last three years; it's an absurd position to take.
Harbaugh's record before and after the installation of this cheating scheme is stark. The sooner Michigan fans (and their enablers) accept this, the better.
Let’s do an experiment. Set up your starting offense against your starting defense. Offense will run the same play 10 times in a row. Each time the play is ran each defensive position will coach each player on defense to stop the play. After 10 plays do you think the offense will gain the same yards as they did the first time they ran the play?
If it was another team these same people would be clutching their pearls
Looks like that’s not true. We now know that last year, Michigan didn’t have OSU’s signs because OSU changed their signs before the game, and we know that Ohio State actually had Michigan’s signs, but Michigan still won by 3 touchdowns. OSU, Purdue, and Rutgers cheated, but you know what? No one cares.
The issue with the "we have to think about the Michigan players futures too" talk is that the cheating directly affects other kids ability to play in the NFL and future careers. Let's say Penn State losses to Michigan, partly because of the cheating, and then 1 or 2 players on that team put up bad film and go undrafted.
My thing is if your Caught cheating the coaches and the university were involved then I think you need to take away scholarships for the future like for 3 years and a heavy fine not playoff or bowel eligibility for 4 years the following year starting . No punishment for the players because there doing what the coach says but the punishment should be severe enough that any University should think twice about doing it. There has to be rules unfortunately your not going to change how people feel, and think if they think your a cheater. That’s why not only this but In life we all have to be careful what we do because it impacts not just us but everyone around us.
That's alright they have Michigan's signs too
Psu upcoming loss will have nothing to do with this. If Michigan even still has stallions info, psu has changed it up and will be beat fair and square
@@scottd1903 and BOOM. Good ol' smash mouth run it right down the windpipe til you choke on it football. 28 straight run plays!
So since everyone does it, then its okay? Lol. Did they keep this same energy when the Astros got caught? From my memory the answer would be no
ESPN seems to care the most
What about the kids Michigan played against...
Michigan did it differently then Purdue. Which was legal. Not everyone is after hairbough, he needs to get his football program in order a lot more then stealing signs going on. Michigan has his back.
Was it legal? Someone who was at a game Purdue wasn't playing in against Michigan gave them the signs. Splitting that hair pretty fine to find distance between that and Michgan. They didn't plan the in person scouting, but it was done for them.
Yes, everyone steal signs but its how UM went about stealing them.
Michigan broke a NCAA rule and there should be a punishment for that. But its an obscure rule based on financial grounds - you can't have staff attend other games because its expensive. It doesn't give a competitive advantage, because everyone steals signs (not against the rules). And because everyone steals signs,, its not a sportsmanship thing either. You can't tell me that what Purdue had last year was more sportsmanlike than what Michigan had. And Suzy is right - there is no evidence that anyone at Michigan knew about it - other than Stallions.
It's not fair that players get punished, but how else do you punish the program so they get the message? By letting the future players know that it will affect them if they play for this team and they should go somewhere else instead. This might be a cruel solution, but there is a transfer portal so these players have options. Make the punishment consequential for the program.
Cheating is cheating, doesn't matter how much. It's about INTEGRITY of the game. Even if Michigan was good enough to make it to national title game, because they got 'help' getting there means they didn't earn it in the right way. Let them sit and watch others play. Lesson for the league.
Perhaps a bad example, but look at speeding. Most people do it. Few get caught. They don't get out of it by saying 'everyone does it'.
Yeah, it's been going on since the dawn of time. Facts.
Cheating is cheating and Harbaugh's disposition has always been salty.
"There's no smoking gun". How in the world would you know?
Once she said she has a Michigan flag hanging in her backyard she killed her argument.
Stealing signs offers little to know advantage. Every team steals signs. Every team changes their signs. Why is this even a thing? Its an outdated rule.
"Everybody does it" is the most lame excuse for what happened. Nobody does what Michigan did. We have absolutely no way of knowing if they had an advantage or not. It doesn't matter.
Undisputable evidence shows that a Michigan assistant DID violate NCAA rules. And you can debate all day about whether Harbaugh knew or not, if he didn't know then he should fired by UofM for lack organizational control. How can you deny that Stallion was was standing within Harbaugh's earshot while giving input to both coordinators. If you had lost to Penn State and they did what UofM did, the entire Michigan fanbase would echo exactly about Franklin, what I just said about Harbaugh. Stealing signs isn't illegal, breaking NCCA rules is. Own it.