Daniel Alexander episode 4 was supposed to be a stand-alone film, but once plans for sequels was confirmed they actually did write out the plotline for 5 and 6. the myth that the entire OT was done on the fly is the real myth. Even if it was true that it was all done on the fly, that doesnt mean it would be right to do it again, trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice is a dumb idea.
DarkSpyro707 Lucas is notorious for not writing scripts or plot lines til the last minute. Go watch SF Debris's series on the making of the Star Wars films. It is really good and give the viewer a real understanding of behind the scenes.
Regardless of my thoughts on finding identity in a movie franchise and this situation as a whole, reading that caught me off guard and cracked me up. I even read it with the emperor's voice in my head. well done sir.
@@nocturne000 Awesome. It shouldn't and doesn't matter to me where any of us fans stand on the current climate, as long as we can appreciate a good line from our favorite franchise.
My issue is they take well made EU characters like thrawn and disnefy em to make em...i dunno...to me they feel less impressive like they KNOW they’re written badly and want to live up to the old EU version, like thrawn, yes he’s just as terrifying but to me it feels like the disney version’s missing something
Not just competence but also relevance. Just like anything else, subverting expectations shouldn't occur unless it serves the story. Unfortunately the story doesn't seem to a priority in these sequels, which is why they aren't worth re-watching. You can only enjoy the cinematography and special effects so many times before becoming bored. These sequels will be forgotten soon.
@@Nanostevenson Agreed, but it also doesn't help that some of the movie makers apparently have a disdain for the very fans that support their work. Some liked it and others didn't - their attitude towards the ones that didn't shows me that they do not have reverence for any of the material they are creating. We're manbabies and whiny nerds. As far as I'm concerned and in line with this video, the extended universe has more legitimacy in its current non-canon status than the Last Jedi ever will.
I just saw Aquaman and a smiling crowd left talking about their favorite parts. When I left the Last Jedi it was dead quiet and folks walked out like at a funeral. I got my money's worth at Aquaman. I only got angry at The Last Jedi.
L. Peyton Adams Aquaman May have been tasteless schlock, but at least it was entertaining and sometime unintentionally funny. Last Jedi was just boring and pathetic
You brought my forgotten memories back. OK I do not want to be too emotional here, but I think a few tears might have fallen from my eyes after seeing Luke being a pathetic dick. These two movies are very big disappointments.
Please, he is acting .He knows he bread and butter come from the fans and he plays that card.... If he really felt that bad he would have said no to the part after reading the script...not like daisy wouldn't use some cgi Grand Moff Tarkin ,etc to make there movie look cheaper...
@@a6eman he signed a contract for the whole trilogy before The Last Jedi script was even a thing, that means court, lawyers and losing millions, it's easier for you to say hey Mark just don't do it.
That clip of Mark Hamill made me very sad. You could tell his frustration and his wanting to warn fans about how it ruined something he spent years if his life on (and knew many fans had spent exponentially more time on). We can all admit the prequel trilogy wasn't great, but it was based out of good natured intentions and a lack of editor push back on Lucas. The Last Jedi is a calculated spitting in the face of a fandom. It is a malicious film that seeks to tear down a franchise from the ground up by telling fans that the things they loved weren't all that great and that the future doesn't have any roots in the past. What a terrible message.
If you took that from the new movies then idk if there's a chance for you to ever enjoy or appreciate these new starwars movies cus that's not what it was saying at all
sadness related to intellectual property is a weak argument against experimentation... art is inherently sad, fucking with it is the nature of "a new hope"... rian Johnson is not the death star, he's just a guy with a weird first name... Christmas is a good example of something that hasn't changed in America in a long time, but if we could find a new way to celebrate it (say every three years or so, or with spaghetti cloud monster parody) it might be a little sad but change happens based on legitimate externalities... star wars is so legit a franchise there's no reason to try and give it a cookie cutter assembly pattern... all the more credit to Johnson for doing it on Mickey's dime
@@PanicbyExample The problem is when the original and prequel trilogies was controlled by the man who made the franchise. Swapping directors for each film and hiring someone like Rian Johnson is a bad decision. You can tell he has no knowledge of the franchise he's been put in charge of. The director needs to be a fan themselves, and someone who understands the universe. JK Rowling didn't direct the Harry Potter films, but she was heavily involved behind the scenes the saga because she best understands her characters. Kevin Feige is a bigger Marvel fan than anyone, whilst the Russo Bros. clearly know how to direct a Marvel film better than Joss Whedon did. The DC films are a perfect example here, directors that clearly have no idea what they're doing with characters they think they know about.
Spazza42 But the OT had a different director for each movie. It’s very noticeable. The tonal shift between ANH, ESB, and RotJ is so obvious. The prequels feel cohesive because they were directed by GL but they’re also lambasted because he had so much control. I think Rian is very much a Star Wars fan. I don’t think we would have the scene between Luke and Yoda is he wasn’t a fan. That is a wonderfully crafted piece of Star Wars with a good lesson. I think Rian saw more potential in the franchise it tried to push the boundaries a bit. It wasn’t universally well-received. He took a risk. Good on him.
While I very much enjoyed Wisecrack using the lens of philosophy to examine the issue, I can't help but think they over-baked the cake, if you will. For 41 years we have been told a rather consistent bedtime story. There have been twists and turns in that tale but it has all remained relatively consistent. Then an addition to that story is added that really doesn't sound like that story at all. The fans probably could have accepted even a radical entry as long as that entry made some kind of sense. TLJ told a bad story. Love the fans or hate them. Love Kennedy and Johnson or hate them. A bad story was told and every excuse from fatigue to sexism and racism had been used as a smoke screen. But the real deal is that a group of people told a bad story, a group of people didn't like that bad story and now it's no longer acceptable to have an opinion on a bad story. We will never heal if that is the path we take.
I don’t really understand your statement. Personally I enjoyed most elements of the story, and I think a lot of the character beats logically extend the characters of the original trilogy. Luke in TLJ screws up in similar ways, for example. But mostly what I don’t understand is the absolute conviction that the story is “bad.” People could say “I didn’t like what happened” or “I don’t like the portrayal of the characters” or “I just didn’t enjoy it,” but no, it must be taken as a given that the movie is bad. It *has* to be taken as objective truth, but it’s hard for me to take that seriously when I personally liked the movie...
This guy gets it. It' s not that different people handled the new trilogy, but that they did a bad job of it. TFA didn't totally fuck up and fans were O.K. with it. TLJ is a total fuck up and no one likes it. My dad likes Star Wars and doesn't know the EU at all. He saw the TLJ and went "what the fuck is this shit?". It makes no sense at many points. It's a bad story period.
The story of it IS bad. That's the biggest problem. Did I like Luke in this? Yes. Did I like Vice Admiral Holdo or however you spell her name? Not particularly but I could have grown to like her and was expecting to do such initially. Are Kylo or Rey necessarily bad characters? No. Rose or Finn? Also no though Rose feels like she needs some more time to bake before she gets her end scene because that end scene was shit. ('we protect people' 'What do you think I was doing sacrificing my life to take out the big cannon? Instead you might have killed us both to protect me and let everyone else die.' Not to mention her literally teleporting to do that since she was a mile away 5 seconds prior.) But the story itself as told in TLJ is poorly put together and even more poorly attached. Its told in such a way that time matters yet is entirely inconsistent, all the answers that matter to the prior movie are ripped down and pissed on, new characters are introduced and murdered, old characters are brought back and murdered. (Ackbar and Holdo. I legitimately thought this would be the movie they killed Leia and Holdo her protege would be learning to fill her shoes. Instead she made terrible calls then commited suicide in a admitably cool way that opened a pandora's box they shouldn't have touched in the form of FTL suicide bombing, one of the most destructive tactics in the StarWars universe that is ignored because then you start asking questions like 'why aren't their missiles just really sturdy boxes with a FTL drive on them that can be fired to vaporise everything in their path' X-WINGS are FTL capable. One X-wing is equal in value to a star destroyer in destructive power when FTL suicide bombing becomes a possibility. The rebel alliance could have cost the Empire 150,000,000 credits for just 90,000, and that's just the basic star destroyer cost compared to the basic X-Wing. With how many more expensive variants there are and the fact that each star destroyer houses tons and tons of Tie Fighters that cost goes up substantially. Put a droid in the seat or just a trigger mechanism and you can even do this damage with no loss of life on your side. You could even debate this could have been used to fuck up the death star since notably people actually crashed into the death star during the run and it affected the people inside and caused explosions. Aim a damn X-wing at the center mass and blast it with faster then light particles. Boom death star down at the cost of a damn X-wing. Or if they are lucky it only does massive damage and doesn't cause a chain reaction.....but if one damn bomb down an exhaust port could do it.... The second death star seems like it might have had better odds against it with its enhanced planetary shielding MAYBE being good enough to protect it without it taking too much damage.) TLJ seemed legitimately more concerned with taking expectations and destroying them then making a movie, something that feels more and more likely to be the truth when they apparently fought on a planet covered in salt for the final part of the movie after doing everything they could to ensure people would hate what they did to the plot threads left over from TFA. The man who made it even went on to say that he wanted people to leave either loving it or hating it. Well he got what he wanted. He alienated about 90% of the fanbase but he got it.
Given how carefully Disney manages these events, I wonder if there was an "Applause" light to cue the audience. Mark Hamill: "I hope you all choke to death on your own crap" * Applause Light * * audience claps wildly *
@The Bandog This is not mainly an explanation of why the film failed, though. It's mainly an explanation of why the manner in which Disney bungled the film pissed people off so much and so persistently.
*Mark Hamill:* "A lot of times I would say to Rian, 'you gotta think about the fans,' and he would say, 'no, we gotta think about the story, and we gotta think about our movie,' which I, you know, uh - " *One Rian Johnson fan:* (clapping) "Woo!" *Audience:* * polite clapping * *Mark Hamill:* * tired facepalm *
Mark Hamill understands it. His entire career has revolved around fandoms. It is why he is such a beloved actor among fans (maybe not among Hollywood). Kevin Feige being a fanboy himself understood this. Kathleen Kennedy and her merry band of chucklefucks don't.
Fuck the fans. The only thing that is relevant is making a good movie. The fans can't decide on anything. Making a good film should be their only priority. I couldn't care less what Mark Hamil thinks. He has spent the past forty years making one bad decision after the other. Have you seen him in The Flash? Pretty cringe-worthy He got lucky when he was the part as the Joker the the animated series. Voiceover is where actors go when they can't find work. Excuse me if I take his word with a grain of salt. .
@@notvcinema8741 If I may: I am NOT a Rian Johnson fanboy. In fact, I think his films try to be smarter than they are, and usually end up with HUGE problems as a result (if Looper and TLJ are any indication: both of these are VERY guilty of this phenomenon). Episode VIII is a very flawed film, but that does not render the initial statement incorrect in and of itself. Giving audiences exactly what they want is NOT the best way to make a memorable, good film with staying power. "Giving the fans what they want" is the filmic equivalent of fast food, the lowest common denominator. If I have to watch another Star Wars film where they just re-hash the Death Star, that'll be a MILLION times worse than all the flaws of TLJ put together, for example. Spectacle is not preferable to new ideas, creative impulses, and art - even in popcorn flicks like Star Wars.
@G RenI mean I am not gonna take sides but rotten tomatoes is pretty poor medium for movies being great. Essentially its medium of movie being above average by average total of weither the movie was good or not (>50%). 97% doesnt equal A+ (97%) movie per say it could be any where from 51% to 97% while the extremes are not as likely. There is something to be said about the cultural biases and social economic implications that effect critics. For example when comics where known for being bright and cheerful. The dark knight subverted that expectation thus why it was praised. But if you would put in the era of 90s comics the same praise probably be distain instead. A good example of rotten tomatoes being somewhat skewed is black panther final fight on the rail way the cgi was Universally criticized for it yet it still got 97%. For a movie that main focuses is action having a 10 minute fight scene look awful in today standard of cgi for AAA companies doesnt seem like a 97% rating. The movie was good but wasn't even as nearly ambitious as infinity war nor have the story significance. Still black pather is rotten tomatoes best movie in ranking. I dont thinking deriving any thing more than movie being good to watch from tomato meter is advisable. Especially when each move rating is on the assumption that the critics understand the story as whole before hand. Even then audiences and critic scores conflict greatly due the fault that critics experience the same troupes and themes over and over again And weigh more value on the the new and brave concepts rather then how deep or significant it is. Not all critics do that but its big enough amount to see that trend. Although audiences may not be as vivid consumers of media they shouldnt be discounted. A story loved by millions is going to last longer than a story loved by thousands because critics love something doesnt mean its gonna be a cultural corner stone. Your point would ring true if you had an actual average score of every critic weighted by the critics significance to movie industry. And a contrasting audience score. But even then when social and cultural trends change that will cause a change of perspective for the movie. To conclude If this movie can only stand on its merit of subversion then over time when expectation invert or subverting become popular you may see a stark contrast of critics as you see today. Numbers do matter but you need the data and context to back it up Edit: this should be obvious but it should be assumed that not every >50% rating doesn't necessarily agree are among the same sentiment of subversion. As the rating can hinder on visual, actor preformance, story, cgi, music, etc because one person like the move doesnt imply its for the same reason as you specify unless directly monitored. The same sentiment can be said for below
The luke that everybody swears to hate and say that’s not my luke in the last Jedi was the definition of Luke’s character. 1. He is a murderer, he murders tons of people, when mind tricks didn’t work on Jabba plan B was to just blow his head off. However he does have compassion especially for his family which leads to point 2. 2. The Jedi are evil (from a certain point of view.) obi wan and Yoda were training luke to kill Vader, they didn’t tell him Vader is his father because that would interfere with luke killing Vader. They don’t have the same compassion luke has, obi wan showed signs of it and could have spared the galaxy 20 years of imperial reign and civil war. After return of the Jedi luke sought out the ancient Jedi texts and became a proper Jedi master, and when Ben showed the first signs of the dark side Luke’s Jedi instinct told him he needs to snuff it out. However luke realized what he was doing and stopped himself. He never murdered Ben. At the finale of the movie he didn’t murder Ben, even though he probably could have. Instead he causes a diversion, allows the last of the resistance to escape and spares Bens life, possibly in hopes to show mercy, lead by example, and show Ben there isn’t just good and evil, Jedi and sith. And Ben can choose a path for himself, like luke did.
He wasn't a nobody. In the movie he was a person that made a crucial mistake but redeemed himself by sacrificing himself by saving the Resistance. In fact that was one of the themes of the movie. Even heroes make mistake and it's about how they redeem themselves as what happened to Luke, to Poe, and to Finn.
I have no problem with Luke's character in the Last Jedi. I actually like some of the stuff they did with him. What bothers me is would Luke really have run away and hid after Ben turns to the Dark Side? He couldn't have been scared of Snoke and Kylo Ren because they both fear him so much they spend years trying to find and kill him. The only thing I can think of is he was too ashamed of himself to face Leia and Han after what he almost did to their son, but surely he would have gone after Snoke before the First Order rose to power. So why didn't he? The movie never explains why he himself never took any action other than he wanted to let the Jedi die, but surely he could have done that by not teaching anyone else and still kick Snoke's ass.
@@markcamp1878 "The luke that everybody swears to hate and say that’s not my luke in the last Jedi was the definition of Luke’s character. " Factually wrong...and an example of how average joe doesn't understand how character development works.
As a writer I just can't understand or see the practicality in changing writers throughout a trilogy. There's bound to be contradictions and stutters, let alone having the second writer throw out everything the original writer did. I have no idea how they'll make the third film cohesive and tie up all the loose ends.
@@juan241996 well, lucas had the storys written before they started filming or at least he had a grand plan. In an interview he stated that he had plans for 9 films very early on. As far as I know JJ had a general story for the new trilogy as well, but for some reason KK allowed RJ to write his own dumb shit. And it feels a lot like he did that unsupervised.
I am also very curious what they will make of the third movie. Will it be a abomination or a somewhat decent film? Judging by the last 2 movies of the trilogy iam expecting the first. Fortunately after the third movie this horrible 'trilogy' will come to a close and perhaps we can get a new and fresh story set in the star wars universe. Also if disney cant come up with something on their own just pick any of the books, comics or games of starwars, doesnt matter what they choose it will be better than the last trilogy.
4:40 While the prequel movies themselves were rejected the prequel era itself never was. Many embraced it and many still consider it the greatest era of Star Wars.
marinus18 those movies weren’t even rejected. You had the old timers who couldn’t get over that they weren’t made for them nexesssrily but my nephews loved those movies as kids growing up when they saw them and heck I being on the younger side loved those movies. Still prefer them to the originals. These new ones I just don’t know the first I could live with but the last Jedi was just what? What was it? It’s amazing how rian Johnson killed an entire universe
@@renlysotherlover294 The universe is not dead at all my dude. I think many of the fans who grew up with the prequel trilogy, original trilogy, and even the expanded universe are doing what the Star wars fans who saw the original trilogy did to the prequels; bash on the actors, the directors, and come up with the same narrative saying "Star wars is ruined". Sure, Disney should consider the fans in some areas. But I think Disney has recognized the pattern that the fandom has started to make; Love the old trilogy, hate the prequels, love the prequels, hate the Sequel trilogy. It's repeating and will continue to do so for years to come.
@@blessingtheplatypus9961 Yes I thought the same way because I grew up with the prequels and especially The Clone Wars TV Show, but it's just different with these new films. Fans knew what was the Ending of the prequels and lucas had a certain plan about the story and how he wanted to tell it. That story of anakin skywalker, that good man who darth vader once was always existed in his and fans were just expecting to much imo. The original trilogy is one of the best if not THE best trilogy in the history of cinema, definitely the most iconic one, and fans were expecting to see something on the same level, but that's just super hard to do. These new movies, they certainly also started with alot of expectations and what did they give us. Basically a remake of episode 4 at the beginning. Ok cool, theres still two films to go and the fist one wasn't even bad when you talk about it strictly as a star wars movie, was it. But then Ryan Johnson comes in and doesn't make a bad movie if you talk about it as A movie, it's actually really good, the character development, the story, the plot. But it is A BULLSHIT star wars movie. It just doesn't fit. That's not luke skywalker, the man who believed in the good in a cyborg kind monster who killed children and murdered his whole order, and now luke wants to kill his nephew kid from behind, wtf? Also, theres so much more this film vould have done, talk about the past, review the history of jedi and the sith, but no Johnson has to be, imo, so fucking egoistic and do his "own thing" and kill the past. Noone fucking ever wanted that. The story was great, it was beautiful, why tf kill it, why forget it??? You could basically watch the sequels without episode 8 and still understand the whole plot. What I try to say is that the Sequels aren't "bad" movies if xou view them as movies only, but many people, including me, just don't like the story, man ok cool new star wars movies, but we never wanted this story?! Darth Vaders redemption was perfect, and now its dust. That story is just unorganized and bad planned, it's shameful. And of ckurse they try to promote their sequel trilogy the most now so that its going to be accepted by the younger generation just like it was by us with the prequels, but thats just not the same
I felt like TLJ was so concerned with "killing the past" that it didn't serve any other purpose but than to try and end the franchise. Not one part of episode 7's story was left to continue in episode 9, and no interesting story arches of its own to replace it.
The only interesting story arc I heard rumored was that it takes place five years later and Kylo Ren is seen as some sort of peacemaking savior to the general public. The resistance even questions what it's fighting anymore. Now THAT would be a movie worth watching. It'd be nice if there's any truth to that rumor. Probably too good to be true, though.
Mark Hamill is an actor. He didn’t make TLJ. He didn’t make Hope. He didn’t make Empire. He just did what the script told him to do. You can like/hate the new films as much as you want, but what Mark Hamill thinks should’ve been done is completely irrelevant. You might as well hate Jedi because Harrison Ford thought Han Solo should’ve been dead.
And honestly it has nothing to do with it being Mark. Anyone could have said that. The issue is that Rian admits he prioritized a story over the fans. Not good for the biggest established franchise ever.
Samuel Glyn, perhaps...but it is well known in the original trilogy the actors have some input in their characters and Lucas actually listened . Not so with today’s ego driven overpaid pretenders.
@@soarel325 how KOTOR 2 the Sith Lords "destroyed" star wars? it's a pretty great game with a pretty cool story... MUCH more interesting than anything the recent movies came up with...
@@soarel325 now, I am not a huge SW fan, but the biggest thing in kotor2 story "contraddicting" the mythos(i think) is the fact the protagonist is some soft of "force black hole" or something. More than disrespectful its something not explored in the original setting. That said all games have their "freedom": Dark forces had super stormtroopers Jedi knight had 7dark jedi and the while valley of the jedi Jedi knight 2 had 2 new dark jedi and artificial jedi. Forced unleashed had the strongest forced user in the setting.
@@RichardRagan True Nihilism, regardless of the reasoning behind it, is meant to serve a purpose. Rian's so-called "disruption" is really just a euphemism for "incompetence".
@@RichardRagan This. I think Rian is just a nihilist, too. He's jealous of creative people and knows, on some level, that his own abilities are sh*t. So he trashes other people's work in a desperate attempt to make his own stuff look better.
The core of the crisis is simple: apparently no one is allowed to hate, dislike or much less just criticize Star Wars anymore. The Prequels were utterly torn apart for nearly a decade and yet the world went on. Now not even Mr. Plinkett can release a piece on The Last Jedi without getting a litany of articles from Salon, Vox and other similar websites calling out Mike Stoklasa and RedLetterMedia's apparent rampant sexism and racism (Notice: we're no longer talking about Mr. Plinkett) and how it's all problematic. This plan of defense to defer criticism did not work for Ghostbusters and it's showing to not be working for Star Wars.
La Blue The movie has mixed reviews, people at Vox might like it and find negative commenters interesting enough to publish a story about. I personally liked it but when writing a review I also would look at people's criticisms and take those into account when writing. If I think their take comes from subconscious bias I'm not going to pretend that it isn't a thing to protect their feelings.
It’s more of the reasons behind the criticism not the criticism themselves. Thinking Rey’s power level is a little hard to believe is a standard critique for movies like these. Saying that her gender is the core issues is not good. And yes people have done that.
I believe that I can speak for many when I say we were all okay with the prequals being crappy in a way.... But when they destroyed the entire cannon that's where we got upset.
I grew up in the middle of the explosion of classic SW games in the early 2000s. I don't mind if they want to have their own new canon, but freezing the IP so nobody could make EU content anymore was a giant fuck you. I'm almost as insulted by the business side of it. Almost 40 years of untapped content, videogames had finally broke out full force as the 4th big major media player, a money nuke is about to blow in their face as LucasArts is pulling the trigger on a triple A Darth Maul and Boba Fett game... Then everything gets gutted.
What fucking alternate timeline did I walk into where people are defending the prequels? I dunno how old you are but those films were roasted by fans. If social media was a thing back then we would have seen the exact same backlash we are seeing now.
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The last Jedi was just a bad movie. It shit on a universe that was built up over 7 movies, it was full of plot holes, full of shit that made zero sense, and it didn’t care to explain any of the questions we had from TFA. I have no problem with them moving on but this idea of “killing the past” is bullshit. You shouldn’t kill the past you should move on, evolve, expand the universe and story not just kill it and stop it dead in its tracks which is pretty much what TLJ did.
It was actually built over hundreds of books and stuff too, but yeah. Knights of the Old Republic 2 already subverted expectations, and it did it 1000x better.
I honestly don't get how people think the message of the movie is that you should kill the past. It is the villain who said that and the hero who rejected that statement. It also did answer at least some of the questions TFA posed, like who Reys parents are. It didn't answer all of them, true, but I consider that to be more of Abrams fault as his philosophy is to come up with a bunch of questions he has no answers to.
Killing the past is one thing, but when you kill it all the way to the previous movie that was supposed to establish a direction for the trilogy you're supposedly making, it becomes a shit show like no other. Now they're supposed to wrap up the trilogy with the next movie except that the story arc hasn't advanced one step. The protagonist is still the same Mary Sue character that could do everything she needed right from the start and the antagonist is still the same bitching wimp that never posed any threat to anyone. Good luck with that.
Right on... I actually think the concept of "killing the past" would have been GREAT for Star Wars. The problem is that this is not what the movie does at all. Killing the past would be dissolving the conflict between empire and rebellion (or uh whatever theyre calling them now) and starting with a fresh idea. This would have taken the form of Rey and Kylo forming an alliance. Instead, the movie shrugs off that idea and just goes back to the same old formula.
What does "Kill the past" even mean? You can pretend the past didn't happen, but unless you kill EVERYONE else who isn't on board with the idea then it's pretty meaningless. Everyone else will still be operating based on what happened before regardless of how you feel about it. Unless you are talking about exterminating all other sentient life and restarting civilization from the stone age it just doesn't make sense.
1:20 Damn. I feel so bad for Mark right here getting interrupted in the middle of his sentence. He's like royalty to most people. He's freaking Luke Skywalker!
Yeah not exactly healthy I find the conflict kind of interesting and I’m glad tha Johnson managed to pull through with what he wanted for the movie, like Luke’s arc in it The 9 episode is gonna be pandering AF
Mark could see the direction that was being taken was a betrayal of what the Star Wars that fans love. To Disney and the rest of the new creative team he was a relic to be killed off, he held no value to their money making vision. To the fans though he will always be a big part of what Star Wars is.
Mark Hamill was in a rock and a hard place, a new director- a new vision, basically something he knew would get alot of negative backlash from the fans despite wanting to do the movie "for his fans" I think he basically wanted to get it over with and not look back.
@@Kombatwombat Man, you people are insane. How many words are you going to put in his mouth to pretend he agrees with all the nonsense criticism that gets thrown around about the film?
"The consumer is always right" is a bullshit mentality used by businessmen to drum up sales by treating them as royalty and making sure workers/actual producers bend over backwards to appease them. The mentality is best seen in "Can I Speak To The Manager" types, because they know the company is more loyal to sales than its workers, and managers more loyal to the company than the workers they're supposed to manage.
Korgull "The customer is always right" stems from the dependance of the salesperson on the customer's spending habits. What LucasFilm under Disney did was to depart from that and instead focus on a new group of completely unproven "potential customers" that they had no idea if they had enough purchasing power and the interest to continue consuming Star Wars content in the future. This is what caused them (mostly Rian Johnson and his non-purchasing fans) to be openly hostile towards the existing customer base that has been established roughly fourty years ago and continued to grow/stick around until today through the generations. While new LucasFilm now focused on "new customers", they alienated previously loyal customers through hostility and by offering them products they didn't ask for, which equals business suicide (evading demand instead of meeting demand). TL;DR the big mistake Kathleen Kenney made is that she completely overestimated the size, purchasing power and longevity of the supposed new customer base, while she completely underestimated the same factors in the established customer base. You can dislike the "the customer is always right" mentality all you want, it's always the correct mentality, there's nothing you can do about it.
Not just that, but they outright contradict previous facts that were laid out explicitly in the movies and supplementary materials just to accommodate for the tastes of the ones currently in charge. In the OT, when Luke was training under Yoda and asked him about the Dark side, Yoda said unambiguously that the Dark side is a quicker and more seductive route to power, a fact that was shown happening in the PT and Clone Wars with Anakin turning to the Dark side as he gave in to anger. Luke did truly become a Jedi by refusing to give in to anger before the eyes of an incredulous Palpatine. What has Rey's path to become a Jedi been so far? All she does in battle is to give in to anger, and her Force knowledge is literally copy/pasted from the mind of a Sith when bridged mentally, which is the easiest path to power ever devised, whereas in an ironic twist of fate, the current Sith (who ultimately was the one who spoke the message of TLJ) is the one who has done actual training and faced difficulties in the path he's decided to walk. Completely subverting and maligning the original message of valuing hard work and persistence over easy self-gratification.
The movie, using dialogue from Luke Skywalker, went out of its way to point out that what Rey was doing was the way of the Dark Side. That’s why it didn’t work out for her. As Kylo Ren was drawn to the light, they even briefly met in the middle before they both got back on track and Rey started defending the Resistance from Kylo’s wrath. The Force is strong with Rey, but she is not a Jedi yet. And if it makes you feel any better, the next movie is getting directed by J. J. Abrams.
Maracunator Lol what’s even more contradictory to me is it really seems like, JJ Abrams and Disney wanted a female protagonist who for all intents and purposes is not related to a Skywalker or Kenobi or whomever but a girl who is from nothing but rises to greatness. That maybe a fine idea for a character especially since with Luke and all Star Wars copy cats since has features a white male hero who later learns he was destined for greatness. What Disney and Abrams COMPLETELY forgets about that kind of story telling is the quote “greatness” has to be earned! And not just thrusted upon. Luke had to train and learn how to be a jedi. Rey figures this shit out right off the bat. So if her goal is not to work and overcome her enemies, then what is her goal as a character? The Force Awakens seems to answer, “To find her purpose.” Next movie... “you have no purpose!” What!? Then why do I give a shit about this girl!?! We still got one movie left in this. Maybe it was a trick with the force involving Kylo Ren manipulating Rey into thinking she comes from nowhere. Perhaps to hide the fact that they are brother and sister just like Luke and Leia! Maybe Snoke isn’t actually dead?! I mean look at his body with a caved in head and burnt up skin. Perhaps thats his thing, he dies and come back with the force but is left with all the scars on how he previously died all over him. I would say all this is in the realm of possibility but at the same time it’s not. Who knows. But at the same time, it doesn’t feel like anyone working at Disney is sophisticated enough to write the proper lore and storytelling that would allow these connections and questions to be answer coherently and satisfying. I do weep for the future of any franchise in the hands of any faithless cooperation..
I think its completely valid to not like the movies but I do think Rey has an interesting ark. Her parents leave her when she was a kid, she is alone her whole life and lies to herself she will be seeing her parents back, she only dares to accept that she is not going to see them back when Han Solo proposes to fill that void to be a sort of father figure/mentor to her. When he dies she immediately turns to Luke Skywalker to be a father figure which turns out to be a dead end when he ultimately rejects her. But who was there for her in this hard time of need and loneliness, Kylo Ren, who wants to be her surrogate family so they can 'rule the universe together'. She is so close to giving in to her deepest desire to have a family and not be lonely anymore that she almost chooses to do nothing when the first order is killing the last hope for a free galaxy, the resistance. Giving in to the dark side isn't only giving in to anger, it is giving in to your own desires regardless of who gets hurt, like killing the Jedi to be together with your wife (like Anakin tried) But Rey ultimately didn't give into that desire and chose that the fate of the universe was more important than her happiness. I think thats a pretty significant growth in character and a big step towards being a jedi.
It wasn't just a bad movie for the fans. It was a bad movie all by itself. It is full of contradictions, logical failures, pointless subplots, and failed jokes. It doesn't just ignore the Star Wars lore. It ignores and breaks the foundational rules of technology and The Force in Star Wars.
I completely agree. Most criticism on the new movies goes in deep analysis, but by that they just miss the point. Changing ownership of the franchise - not a problem. Subverting expectations - not a problem. Re-imagining the SW mythos - not a problem. Reducing the canon - still not a problem. A movie could be awesome with all above changes. The problem is, that these movies are bad. It's that simple. They fail not as SW movies, but just as enjoyable movies.
It's not just that it's not Lucas making them. It's what a new leader did with Lucas's pre-existing content. Dissing the Jedi, destroying Luke's character, and blowing up the New Republic that Lucas and the fans literally spent 40+ years and 6 films creating. Even if Lucas was still in charge, we'd been pissed. We know this because of the backlash to "Han Shot First" and over-explaining the once mystical force. So you're close by saying it's because of what new leadership is doing, but wrong in assuming it's because they're new leadership. People were excited about Disney at first. It's that new leadership broke pre-existing canon that took 6 movies and a famous TV show to build. Even Lucas wouldn't have survived killing the New Republic the whole first trilogy led up to creating and then turning Luke into an anti-Jedi hermit with no proper explanation.
@Imp Salazarth only possible reason why luke skywalker has vanished might have worked would be if he had managed to atleast save a few of his students training them Worst thing you can do with a franchise is destroy their most valuable asset and Luke or Vader is arguably the most known character in movie history
I didn't hear George say anything negative about it. And lets face it you were a kid when you saw the originals. Go back now and watch them. Yeah there good but some of the acting is horrible and directing is bad. There is a reason The empire strikes back is the fav of the 3. A seasoned director which George isn't.
The greatest thing Johnson did was taken in part from Lucas's own work in Episode 3. Luke had tried to preserve the Jedi Code and Yoda appeared to have torched it. This is all a continuation of "the Jedi are evil" take. Yoda essentially shows Luke a strict adherence to the text isn't the proper approach either. PS. I agree the Jedi are evil, but that doesn't make the Sith right. But this can all be determined by the 6 movies.
and a fight between new republic and first order would havee made a wayyy better story thant the goofy space chase we got. my brain can't process such nonsense...
Disney screwed up Star Wars Royally, and its not the actors, or the characters at all, it is the story or lack there of, its screwing with cannon and its losing the hope and fun that was star wars. Clearly Disney and their top brass don't have a freaking clue what made star wars great....
The rich are basically Aliens at this point, not to get political but Biden is taking after Trumps gaffs because he thinks that's why he's popular. The rich are aliens and it is an invasion.
I don't know if he realises that what he said doesn't work in favour of the current state of Star Wars, but against. His movie, Logan, even though it was bold and unconventional as far as "superhero films" go, it was a gritty and realistic way to send off two characters (Prof. Xavier as well) while at the same time respecting the characters' history. He provided an aspect of their life, from a different point of view. But of the same characters. Xavier was the same, but sick and troubled, his mind had crumbled under its own strength. The Wolverine was the same but now an old man, tired, beat and broken by the many years of fighting and mourning. That was a different take but on the SAME story. The same people, with the same history. It was a bold movie that every fan loved even though it stripped all the glamour off of a superhero film because the *heroes* were stripped of it. Not because YOU as a director decided they had none to begin with.
I don't think it CAN be fixed, Johnson threw out the plan JJ left for the sequels. And instead chose to destroy any continuity or ability to tell a cohesive story through godawful choices (story, characters and casting).
@JBAZZI While that is true in terms of the movies, he was really hands off when it came to the expansion of his universe in video games and books. While he maintained authority over it, he really only put his foot down to keep the internal logic of the universe coherent, or at least flowing somewhat logically from book series to book series. The New Jedi Order books don't negate the Rogue Squadron books, and they all had his seal of approval on it. But that's all it really was. He was not intimately involved and only had them looked over to ensure internal consistency. This can be good, as I think some of the best books were in the two series above, but this hands off approach can also allow for things like The Crystal Star which is generally viewed as one of the worse Star Wars books written prior to Disney.
Why The Last Jedi sucks; - Totally different character personalities. - Dead end plot points from previous film thrown out by bad director. - Poorly written, or as the bad director would say, 'subverting expectations'. - As you say, whatever universe the Last Jedi took place in was not in the actual Star Wars universe. - Introducing characters to fill diversity quotas that take precedent over the story. - Those new characters are REALLY stupid. Stop being bias Wisecrack, I love your South park stuff, but I honestly thought more work would have been done by you to understand the HUGE backlash that DID tank Solo. It's not just 'angry fans'.
Hillwood Lam Indeed - peer-to-peer systems are more fragile than top-down power structures, but far, far more positive and far, far more effective, creative and interesting.
Statistically philosophy majors are the second highest paid majors out of college. The only majors paid higher than philosophy majors are science majors. The reason for this is among other things philosophy teaches critical thinking, reasoning, and creative problem solving. Which are highly valued skills by many employers. Sure you won't make the kind of money a lawyer, doctor, or engineer might make, but you won't be a beggar. The myth of the useless philosophy degree stems from anti-intellectualism and philosophy majors trying to make sure you morons don't flood the market by majoring in philosophy.
@@blixer8384 if that is so, then I'm merely helping by perpetuating the stereotype that is maintained by philosophy majors themselves. No need to be touchy about a joke, especially from someone whom I can only assume is a philosophy major.
The part I hate most about this situation is that some viewers not thinking critically about the Last Jedi and questioning how it fits into the previous and consistent themes of the previous Star Wars movies. They are just accepting it even when it directly contradicts established continuity, thus making messages in the previous movies meaningless. They are blindly watching the films without considering the deeper messages. But that's the entire point of art. You are not supposed to just absorbs everything without thinking. You are supposed to consider, ponder, and try to assess and reason how the art makes you fell. The story that Star Wars told in Episodes 1-7 was art. It was more than just cool visuals and lightsabers. It said something about the nature of good and evil, family, and destiny. Episode 8 says nothing except that those previous movies were worthless. Why would anyone who actually thinks critically ever accept Episode 8 when it's main message is that the past does not matter?
Another point of art however is to change and criticize the art that came before, even the art that inspired it. Art is an expression and critique of all that came before and the society that surrounds it. So yes the new trilogy may be "going agaisnt" or criticizing the old movies, but that's because it's time to move on, both within the starwars universe and in ours. The major theme of the new trilogy is "let the past die". Luke even criticizes the "regin of the Jedi" because they controlled the universe and couldn't see the the dark side creeping in. The whole point from day one of starwars was balance. "Balance in the force", the prequels show how when the "good guys" hold all the power, they become the people they were trying to defeat. The OG trilogy showed us that when evil regins supreme, that good, no matter how small will fight and over power. The new trilogy is trying to show us a real balance. This is why our two main characters (Rey and Kylo) struggle so much with being on the sides they are on. Dark and light, they are being drawn to one another because they cannot exist without one another. So yes this new trilogy is going down a different path, but its really a path that has been being set up since the first starwars. Each new trilogy gives us a new theme and new meanings to contemplate. It doesn't render the previous meanings and themes pointless, it now gives us brand new meanings as we look at all the trilogy's as a whole.
What universe do you live in...where ‘ The Phantom Menace’ and ‘Attack of the Clones’ is considered art? Is ‘the emoji movie’ also a work of art there?
I’ve always been a superficial Star Wars fan, so most of the reasons people hated the movie, as pointed out in this video, doesn’t apply to me. I simply think it was a clunky, badly written and just downright bad movie. Some scenes were great, but they were the exception rather than the norm.
I'm curious how you can label a movie as 'downright bad' while also saying it had great scenes?? I enjoy TLJ on some level but can also see a lot of flaws myself and also understand the one's that essayists have delved into. Some actually make me rethink the quality, other points don't really affect my view of the film even if I acknowledge them. Its fine to dislike something but labelling it as 'objectively bad' or other likewise terms is complete bull. Its not The Room. I don't like the first Thor movie for the way it treats the plot and character. And yet, I don't consider it a bad movie.
@@DeanS946 Well he never really said that the film was objectively bad. It's just in his eyes it's a shit movie with some cool scenes.(Probably the visuals I'll give it that) However, looking at TLJ and what we universally agree is good storytelling I think it fell pretty short. I think the pacing was Jarring, the character arcs were very shallow and 1 dimensional, (although I kinda liked Kylo Ren's character in the movie despite the 3rd act kinda ruining it) and it's hardly "subversion" when you establish a logic in a story just to later pretend that logic never existed.(I'm speaking about what the TFA set up) Subversion is better handled when taking a common trope and explaining why the trope is ham fisted. Kinda like how Mad Max: Fury Road handles feminism. The movie instead of using feminism as a way to ruggadize women and demonize men for being to masculine like in many depictions of feminism.(Pop Feminism) It showed that both men and women were being oppressed by a greater power. It also showed that it was the overly masculine or feminine approach is what causes these issues in the first place and that a character is better defined by having both masculine and feminine traits. It was not really so much dealing with a patriarchy but dealing with an elitist. There is a lot TLJ can learn from Fury Road. I think if TLJ handle their themes as skillfully as MMFR then it would be a movie worthy of all praise. That's just my two cents though.
@@malikjackson9337 then it can't be labelled shit if it has the caveat of cool scenes. Again, I'm not actually arguing for any of the reasons you like or dislike the movie or aspects of it. I agree with most. I just find someone's analysis completely falls flat if it ends with a blanket statement. Especially ones as benign as 'it was bad' or 'it is shit'. Plenty of TLJ has story and arcs that make sense within the story. Its fine if character motivations rub you the wrong way but that doesn't always equal bad writing. I hated the whole purple hair character plot because it was weir we should care so much when this was her first appearance. However, her actions made sense as a commander and Poe had no right to the information. It didn't fit what we wanted but it was a narrative choice to propel Poe's arc and subsequently Finn and Rose's. The setup wasn't exactly stellar but it wasn't illogical or a 'plot hole'. Now I don't want to get into and discussion of the minutiae of TLJ because I have very little investment. My point is, and I hope it makes sense to you now, is blanket statements help no one and harm your position and are very rarely true. They are the sole reason for the heavy vitriol on most subjects from politics, society all the way down to movies and media.
@@DeanS946 I could argue why I those scenes are god awful but fair enough in regards to the blanket statement bit. However, there is very legitimate criticism on things TLJ falls flat on. It's not just because fans didn't get what we want. Hell I came in there trying to give that movie a chance. TFA had setup some interesting concepts but when the sequel betrayed those concepts is when I had a problem. That's not complaining how I didn't get what want but why the Hell would you hint at somethings importance just to snub it later? I just think why people hate these scenes is fairly justified but you are entitled to your own opinion and I respect that.
@white Rogue: "The only thing i would be sad about, is Darth Maul." I knew you were going to say Darth Maul. He's my favourite thing from the PT. He's not the ONLY thing that I, myself, would be sad about, but he's definitely the thing I would be the most sad about. Mostly I just want TLJ stricken from the record. I'm fine with TFA and R1.
Kevin Feige: "All films in the MCU have to be compatible with our overall long term plan." Kathleen Kennedy: "Is everybody ready? Lets make some money! And let's jam in some weird ideas."
Comparing Star Wars to a religion is apt. I served alongside several people in the military who paid their own money to have custom made dog tags that had "Jedi" listed for religion, and they would even sneak them into their uniforms despite an actual penalty for being caught during an inspection with them. They were willing to risk getting in trouble just so they could have the dog tags they wanted on them in case they were dying that day. Most of them did it somewhat out of humor, they were atheists who wanted to put something there. But, of all the things they could have picked, they went with that. And, that was way more common than any reference to any other "nerdy" fandom. Star Wars is corporately produced consumer schlock for profit. But to a large population, it's symbolic of something way more meaningful, to the point where people are willing to be perceived as legitimately believing in a movie franchise religiously at the time of their deaths. That's what Disney bought.
Indeed. Star Wars is a religion, because that is literally what it is made out of. The Light and Dark Sides of the Force are the religious notions of "Good" and "Evil" incarnate, though as a Sith myself, I tend to scoff at those who claim that there is a universal definition for "evil". "Evil" tends to be a shaming word employed by the weak to cow and enslave the strong.
I believe Rian Johnson is to blame for The Last Jedi. The Force Awakens, although it was basically the same story as A New Hope, was really not bad at all. It followed similar themes to the originals, fit in with the rest of the star wars movies, and left me with a ton of questions to set up the next movie. When Rian Johnson made TLJ his way, he literally shrugged off every single question I was waiting to be answered and replaced them with no new ones. After TFA, I would talk with my friends for hours about what we thought would happen. After TLJ, we just complain about how bad it was, there's nothing more for us to talk about. This is just my number one grievance with the movie. I also hated how they teased everyones death, had too many plot lines that literally didn't matter, most of the characters got lucky, the plot only existed because of miscommunication, they added in way too many new powers to the force, had useless or unnecessary characters, made up ways to fix the problems they created themselves, didn't follow the previous movies story at all, had no lightsaber battles, and changed the morales of characters that have existed for decades. After The Force Awakens, I really wanted to see the next one. After The Last Jedi I don't.
Well said, both of you. I mean, it's offensively bad on multiple levels. RJ wants to present it as if he's some type of creative auteur, but he whored out when KK told him to make all the males weak and/or stupid and all the femals admirable. Then he did a terrible job of THAT. It's also awful on a Sci-Fi level. Magic systems, or systems of future technology depend on their own internal rules to maintain plausibility. RJ obviously doesn't get this. So he has beam weapons arching as if they were tracer bullets, the ships suddenly have to use and obtain fuel, bombs "drop" in zero gravity and, most stupid and egregious: hyper-ramming something will blow it up...which nullifies every space battle in all the other movies. It would appear he gave this ZERO thought, but then, his kind of 'storytelling' is all about subversion, and very little about work, craftsmanship, thought or creativity. Fuck it. Every time I try to add a little "well done" comment to a post it turns into a tirade. I blame Rian Johnson.
I preach the idea of the Force Awakens being a pretty but somewhat avarage movie which value is mostly determined by how the forshadowing or plot arks play out in the following enteries. Well they fucked it up so bad that the value of FA is pretty much the same as the last jedi in my eyes.
One of my artsy buddies (a writer) often says "if it doesn't work on the page then it won't work on the stage". This also means that new computer generated special effects will never make up for a weak story. Both the "Star Wars" and "Star Trek" franchises are currently going through this. Remember when each episode of ST:TOS or ST:TNG could tell a fairly complicated sci-fi story in under an hour? Now ST:DISCOVERY requires a whole season to tell us a crappy story (all I remember is "tardigrade"). For comparison, I just bought the Babylon-5 complete box set (39-disks) so my family watches one new episode every night (just started season 3). Note that all episodes are in standard definition and the computer generated effects all hail from the 1990s so do not stand up to the standards of today. On top of all that, Ambassador Kosh's encounter suit is based on a $5 shower curtain. And yet, "story quality" carries the viewer past all those weakness. comment: I have often wondered why WB did not reformatted the Babylon-5 series in a similar way to what we saw happen to ST:TOS. WB could have made a bunch more money airing it daily on their own network; or the SyFy Network in America and Australia; or the SPACE channel in Canada.
"Remember when each episode of ST:TOS or ST:TNG could tell a fairly complicated sci-fi story in under an hour?" Nope. I do remember when ST:TOS or ST:TNG could tell a fairly basic or even simplistic simplistic sci-fi story in under an hour...
Except that Filler Arcs don't often rewrite the whole canon of the anime, erase plots everyone loved and make way for poorly-written characters to become the protagonists by shitting on the old protagonists. Seriously, not even Bleach and Naruto did that, and they took a deep dive in quality before the end. Well, maybe Naruto did, because Naruto has always been a wimp, but still.
No. Filler doesnt affect anything. Last Jedi is like a boring Naruto filler that also casually kills Naruto by the end. Its a shitfest that kills the franchise once Luke dies.
It's story was a weird one. I really did feel like a filler episode where nothing happened, but at the same time, it took a steaming shit on everythingy ou liked about it.
Nice, interesting video(I hit the like button), but this is a bit off base, IMHO. You pose two(2) questions here; 1. "Why are fans unhappy with the direction of Disney Star Wars?" 2. "Why Disney Star Wars is in Crisis?" To more accurately use your Christianity metaphor to answer question #1(Why are fans unhappy with the direction of Disney Star Wars), the Original and Prequel trilogies play out like the the 2 testaments of the Bible. The Light and Dark Sides are good and evil(duh). The Galaxy at large represents humanity. Old Testament = Prequel Trilogy... Darth Vader = Fallen Angel, Devil... Dark side consumes the galaxy. New Testament = Original Trilogy... Luke Skywalker = Redeemer, Jesus... Light side saves the galaxy. George Lucas was more like a pope, and had Arch Bishops(EU creators) to help him spread the word of the Bible(Star Wars). Now there is a new pope, Kathleen Kennedy. She kicked all of the old Arch Bishops out of the church and replaced them with her own. This new pope says that there is now a 3rd testament to the Bible. That alone is not a bad thing, but the problem is that this new testament throws away all the lessons learned in the first 2 testaments. For example, after everything that happened in the New Testament, in this Third Testament Jesus doesn't care to redeem humanity and thinks Christianity should end. This Third Testament says that humanity is dumb for ever believing that Jesus could save us. There is a new redeemer that is not of God, and all you have to do to go to heaven is just really, really want to go. All you have to do to get rid of evil in your life is clap your hands as loud as you can. Pretty much this new testament has no rhyme or reason except to be at the whims of the new pope administration. This is the state of the Disney Star Wars story. Fans are upset not only because this new trilogy is a mess, but they are making a mess of everything that came before. The best example of this is the infamous Holdo Hyperspace Ram. Obviously, it was in the movie because it made for an admittedly spectacular visual. However it breaks the logic of every space battle that has come before it, EVEN the battle from earlier in the very same movie. Why sacrifice 10 bombers with crew, when one hyperspace kamikaze would do the trick? Another example, since when did force sensitivity equal full blown Jedi powers? Why was it good for Holdo to sacrifice herself to save everyone, but not Fin? The list goes on and on. Now for question #2. Disney Star Wars is in crisis because the new pope(Kathleen Kennedy), and her Arch Bishops(Lucas Film employees) have declared a holy war on anyone that doesn't 100% agree with their new Third Testament(new trilogy). If you speak out about the new direction the church is going, you're a sinner and going to hell. ANYONE that even slightly agrees with the people speaking out, is also a sinner and is going to hell. Now the church is getting heavily involved politics. If you don't agree with the church's politics, guess what... you're a sinner and going to hell! To add more fuel to the fire, those(media) wanting to get in good with the church have been attacking anyone that speaks out against it. So, we have the hardcore Bible thumpers(fans) actively and openly speaking out against what they see as a perversion of the Bible(Star Wars). Even many of the "Sunday Christians"(Casual moviegoers), have become turned off by the whole ordeal and stopped going to church en mass. Thats a lot of people not putting money into the collection plates. There's the real crisis. I consider myself just a casual Star Wars fan. I loved the movies, but never really dabbled in the extended universe. The Last Jedi was objectively a bad film for reasons that way smarter people than myself have articulated, but that's not what drove people away from the franchise. Hell, 2/3 of the prequel trilogy were bad movies, Star Wars and its fandom were was just fine. There's not one movie franchise that I can think of that hasn't endured a bad film, even Marvel. The damage was done by the way Lucas Film reacted to the criticism. Without going to deep into all the things said by Ryan Johnson, Chuck Wendig, etc, it suffices to say that they showed little to no class or humility when dealing with fan criticisms. To be completely fair, some of the criticisms, and criticizers, were coming from a negative place, but a lot of it, and them, are not. Either way, it was the apparent policy of Lucas Film, its employees, and its supporters, to lump all criticisms together, no matter how obvious or constructive said criticism might be. I can only really speak for myself, but for me, its not about being mad, or not getting the story I wanted. It's about honestly not getting excited for Star Wars anymore. I'm 37 years old. Star wars has been a big deal for literally my entire life. More than anything, its sad to see so many people becoming so disenchanted with Star Wars. All the while, the people making the films telling is that we suck on our way out the door.
A thing that can be added is that part of the goal of the 3rd is to streamline the text so to speak, since the big thing with the 1st and 2cd is that arguably to many word of saint peter and word of Dante in the story, leading to a lot of bloat in the narrative. Or to drop the metaphor here, Lucas basically did very little in regulating what was canon thus leading to things that should not have been considered in the first place, and thus leading to this purge once Disney got control since they take there branding seriously, even if that mean cutting out what was effectively really loved fanfiction.
Great essay! (Sorry for the length of this comment. :/) I just want to point out that George actually only gave a stamp of approval on few things Star Wars. The original six movies, of course, as well as The Clone Wars movie and show, were the main things given said stamp. You see, it was kind of like an upside down pyramid, with things higher on the pyramid having more importance in canon. Basically, things lower on the pyramid weren't exactly TRUE, canon, with them becoming less and less canon the lower on the pyramid they fell. Things with higher priority, A.K.A. things higher on the pyramid, that contradicted things lower on the pyramid, replaced them as canon; especially if it was approved by George himself. Here are the different layers of the pyramid. G-Canon: "George Canon" (even though George worked on T-Canon); Official George canon; the original six movies T-Canon: "Television Canon"; A later addition, made specifically for the shows. The only one that came out while this was still in use was The Clone Wars C-Canon: "Continuity Canon"; tie-in media that fill in the gaps between G-Canon and T-Canon, such as books (including comics), games, and more. This is the pyramid layer where most of the old E.U. stood. S-Canon: "Secondary Canon"; some, less important pillars of the the old E.U.'s canon, that further supported old Star Wars lore in the eyes of fans. N-Canon: "Non-Canon"; things that definitely never happened in the canon. This included a lot of speculative content, that diverged from the main timeline. This layer was starting to get close to pure fan-fictions. If you wanted to add another layer, it would BE, fan fictions. George actually never considered the "Expanded Universe" canon. He didn't create it; the fans did. Its creation was simply approved by Lucasfilm. It was fan-made content, produced at a higher standard of quality, allowed to be made by Lucasfilm, for the fans to enjoy. Before George decided to sell Lucasfilm, besides the fact that The Clone Wars would've been allowed to finish, carrying it into Q2 of 2016, with its 8th and final Season, he was planning on finishing what he started, and creating the proper to end to his story, with his version of the Sequel Trilogy. The three films would've released in May of 2015, 2018, and 2021. This would've permanently knocked out all of the Expanded Universe post-Episode VI. But, then he let the hate from the Prequels get to him, and he decided to avoid the hate, despite wanting to finish his story himself, and reluctantly sold the company to Disney, also to let the franchise live on beyond his eventual - and unfortunate - future death. He gave his treatments for VII, VIII, and IX to Disney, but they scrapped them, in favor of some sort of relay race, apparently thought to be "for the fans". He wanted to be involved with the new movies to an extent, perhaps as a creative consultant - which Disney seemed to be on board with, at first - but Disney soon rejected him. George had made Kathleen Kennedy the new President of Lucasfilm because she was a long successful producer, and because, since they were friends, he thought she would let him help with the new films. But, she casted him off, instead. They also cancelled The Clone Wars, and deemed animation for kids only, and forced Dave Filoni and team to lower their demographics in future shows, as they largely ignored the Prequel Era. Ironically, it was now that fans started realizing their mistake, and began showing love for the Prequels (partially also probably because the fans that grew up with them were now older)! Basically, no, the old Expanded Universe wasn't really CANON, persay, but in the eyes of a lot of fans, it was. It's a complicated topic. Disney simply decided to centralize canon, and make things simple and straightforward. Anyways, thanks for reading! :) Unless you just skipped to the bottom, you MONSTER! Just kidding, but anyways, bye! :D
Before even watching the entire video, I gotta say about 1:30 : This is just false. Rian Johnson is a prick, and all of his decision to subvert expectations and "kill the past" are driven by a desire to be "unique" and "original". He WANTED to piss of the die hard fans. He lacks respect for the source material.
"The source material" = "It's in the Bible". At least make the effort to listen before you comment. I didn't like TLJ, but they really didn't have an option here. They could keep making original trilogy rehashes like TFA that are objectively inferior to what is already a movie from the 70-80s full of muppets, or they could try to change it up, introduce new heroes and villains to capture younger crowds. This is a studio decision, Rian Johnson is just the guy they hired to excute on what was a plan to try to keep SW relevant. And it worked, Last Jedi made a shitton of money. Maybe the spin-offs were rushed and boring, but they are trying. There's a reason why people usually don't make Predator Part LVII (oh wait they do!), because you run out of variants of the same premise and it just becomes a slog of fan service (like TFA is). Most franchises that keep trying like Aliens are just plain awful. They either need to risk more and try to write a better script, or they are basically back to doing reboots.
They could do things differently, but Episode 8 was probably not where to do so. I think RJ would have been fine writing an anthology movie, but episode 8 of 9? Where his story doesn't even properly carry through the ideas of the same trilogy it's in? It doesn't work as well.
@Leonardo Wilhelm. I am sick of these apologetics. There is a good reason why MegaDeox comment has a hundred upvotes and yours only 1. He's right about Rian Johnson pissing on the fans. This isn't about the series getting old. The fans (the guys) don't like feminist trash spitting on them because they are guys. And frankly, these fans should show themselves more respect and voice exactly that.
I feel like the Disney era of Star Wars was written by some way off fan fiction blog and funded by millions of dollars. The things I miss in the new series that was in the originals was ATTACHMENT. Finding out that Luke and Leia were siblings, Darth was their father, having a quirky old puppet teach the protagonist with quotes that can actually apply to real mundane lives. The fact that the new series barely introduces characters before killing them off, leaves no time to be attached and emotionally invested in those characters. The fact that not many of them are funny and charismatic also makes it hard to bond to anyone in the series. For our family, Rogue 1 killed our interest in seeing the movies in theaters. It probably had the most characters that we got attached to... then killed ALL OF THEM off. With the new main movies... Rey's origins are disappointing, and they still haven't explained how Kylo Ren can stop lasers mid air. I was very much hoping that Rey might have been a descendant of Obi Wan, and that if she started a family with Kylo/Ben Solo, they would have super babies... meh so much disappointment.
The end of Rogue 1 was predestined to be remember in episode 4 the people who got the death star plans all died watch rogue 1 again only this time focus on the imperial interactions and behavior of Vader
@@christophercombs7561 still, it had the best character build and attachment in the story arc... The other movies lack this in the plot. Whether predestined to have the devastating outcome... The plot before the tragic end was better written. #IamOneWithTheForceAndTheForceIsWithMe
Rogue One was the only new Star Wars movie I actually liked. Yeah it sucked that they all died, but it felt like old time Star Wars with real consequences and in a war, sometimes the good guy dies.
I can see most of your points, except do we really need useless exposition on why kylo can stop lasers? It was just supposed to be a cool moment, it's not some huge plot point.
I actually kinda like how some of those explanations are nothing. Like, in the original trilogy, did we need to know Emperor Palpatine's origins? No, he was just some dude in a chair with a hood and chain lightning. Rey's parents just being no-names helps open the universe up. It means we can have stories in the main Star Wars movies that don't relate to the Skywalkers and that strong Force users can come from anywhere. Hell, don't forget that Anakin was born to a random slave woman on a desert planet. Plus, even if Rey was Obi Wan's kid or something, what would that change? My only issue with the newest movie is how Rey took the old jedi books. Hopefully she doesn't read them word for word and takes Skywalker's advice that the Jedi were kinda stupid in their over reliance on prophecies and the code.
My biggest problems with Star Wars now is there is nothing to talk about..... Who is Snoke? No one he's dead. Who are Rey's parents? No one they *are probably* dead drunks? What was Luke up to? Nothing he was hiding. Oh my God is Rey going to join with Kylo to merge the light and dark or maybe save Kylo as some sort of light side double agent? Nope it's the same light vs dark thing. Where did Maz's saber come from? Forgotten. Knights of Ren? Forgotten. Phasma and her history? We'll just kill her again. I have too many questions about Rey! How does she know force powers? How does Rey speak with Chewie *and* BB-8? What about the multiple force visions that Rey had in both movies do they not mean anything. I'm not even crazy for Star Wars but it's no fun to talk to anyone about. That's my feelings anyways.
No, you're right. TLJ effectively took all the fun outta SW. It took the fun out, curb-stomped it and set it on fire. When asked why he'd do something like that Rian Johnson replied: "Because *fuck you* that's why". At which point he stormed off, kicking a puppy just before walking out of view..
Yes, it's fucking true. I'm not interested about anything that's left in star wars. For comparison let's talk about the ending on infinity war. I'm interested in how they are going to revive the characters, how are they going to deal with thanos and how the world is gonna work with half the population killed. With star wars I have nothing, I don't care about the first order, they have been beaten twice now, I don't care about Kylo vs Rey, he has been beaten twice now. I don't care about snoke because he is dead. There isn't anything interesting for episode IX.
I agree with you. The Last Jedi is probably the last Star Wars movie I will watch because all the plot ends are pretty much resolved. They could blow up the millennium falcon or kill Chewie, it wouldn't really matter since there isn't anywhere for the 3rd or continuing movies to pickup from.
OMG you're so right. New star wars movies are shit. Rey is the best pilot and the best Jedi ever, how? No reason. New movies just do whatever they want without caring about anything, past or future. They don't resolve anything, there is no character building, and they are just dull. They should discard all and just adapt one of the old comics.
Ill make this short, should Leia have had ANY force sensitivity at all, it would be all she would need in a literally weightless environment. Now, the inherent dangers of outer space are freezing temperatures and the fact it’s a vacuum. For the vacuum, people can survive without air for somewhere around 3 minutes, which leia did NOT spend in space. Now hypothermia is a different story, but she did recover fairly quickly, but immediately fell into a coma, perhaps from non-lethal but still severe hypothermia
@@steamtasticvagabond474 I honestly can't think of any situation in star wars where force users got sucked into space, passed out, started freezing, and then spontaneously woke up and moved themselves with the force. MAYBE if she had constructed some kind of force barrier before hand she could have held her breathe but she obviously didn't because shes still at the level she was in esb which is just force telepathy/empathy. Even if Luke did train her she'd be about 30 years out of practice. She was a popsicle. If you wanna get really sciency her blood would have boiled from the vacuum and then she'd freeze. Also her lungs would explode. Stop making excuses for shitty writing. We were meant to think she was dead so Ruin Roundhead could have his little Gotcha! moment. She never uses her powers for the rest of the movie and no one even mentions it. No more excuses. It's a shitty star wars movie
@Joshua Stoughton Quick correction my dude. It took a fully focused Luke to move rocks after one or two weeks of training with Yoda. Rey was moving *BOULDERS* in episode 8 after a 2 minute meditation session and 5 minutes of unsupervised random lightsaber swinging. Other than that, you're on point.
Yes. I am Russian and I can assure you 90% of Russians hated how Disney ruined Luke and movie in general. 99% of fans. I gave it 1 star not because I am programmed bot or shit like that!
Dude you are completely insane. Of course the last Jedi had its major flaws but to honestly genuinely claim it was worse exponentially than those ridiculous fuckin prequels is delusionally nostalgic and I think you’re being way too subjective if it’s tit for tat as films
Yoshi Prime Rose, Rey and purple hair lady can't hold a candle to Jar Jar! All the new characters are so badly written, it's just not worth watching anymore
There's a difference between subverting expectations and betraying the core ideals of a character and rendering them (their behavior at least) unrecognizable to the fans. The idea that Luke created Kylo Ren by coming seriously close to murdering his own nephew and student in his sleep clearly falls into the latter category. Luke was so idealistic and full of hope that he insisted that Vader could be redeemed. Vader. The guy who destroyed entire inhabited worlds without blinking, and who murdered countless of his formerly fellow Jedi..including the little kids who were in training. Even after all of that, Luke never gave up hope, and he successfully helped Vader redeem himself. So, it's hard as hell to believe that this same character would act the way Johnson has him in Last Jedi to begin with, but the problem is horrifically compounded by the fact that Johnson never gives a reason for this extreme shift. He thought he felt a bit of the dark side in the kid? Seriously, that's all it supposedly took? If you're going to try and pull off such a dramatic change of character, there needs to be an ongoing process involved. You need to detail a long string of events that over time sapped Luke's hope and faith in people. You need to get Luke to a place where such a thing is even possible for someone like him. It can still be shocking as hell, but you at least need to be able to look back and see how that might have happened. Johnson, however, spends a seeming eternity on a side plot in which the "heroes" act stupidly and accomplish nothing, while spending not one moment to explain what happened to Luke to get him to the point where he came so close to doing something so against his own nature. Hell, Last Jedi isn't just inconsistent with the two previous core trilogies, it's inconsistent with the prior movie in the current trilogy. Thing is, I'd have had no problem with Johnson if this were his own movie with his own characters within the Star Wars universe. I probably wouldn't have liked the movie, but I wouldn't have had a problem with it. That's not the case with Last Jedi, however. Last Jedi is a continuation of an ongoing series of movies based around certain core themes and values. If you agree to make a movie like that, then there are certain conditions your movie needs to meet. If you're not willing to do that, simply say "I don't think that's for me, but I'd love to play in your universe with my own characters so I can do something new with them. Is that something you'd be interested in?"
Luke even sacrificed his own life in refusing to kill Vader, throwing away his lightsaber (which would have helped him fend off the lightning) Not the type to consider killing his nephew for having bad thoughts. Luke would hand Ben Solo the light saber, and tell Ben "I will always see the good in you" but that wouldn't fit their poorly thought out story lines.
There's that, but there's also the issue that their movies simply suck. Well, Episode 7 was pretty harmless, rehashing ep 4 while establishing some new characters that worked fairly well - although the constant involvement of the older ones broke the whole thing up a bit much. But Episode 8 was an absolute clusterfuck. There were some good ideas behind it as you explained in your other videos, but they ruined it all by missing the tone and not being consistent with it, leaving a conflicting muddle that is neither fun nor smart nor anything really.
TFA is only "not that bad" in retrospective. The reality is that it sucked. The most important part is that it "forgot" to explain the rise of the first order and the fall of the republic and trivialized and rendered meaningless the effort of the heroes of the previous movies. Plus had a boring Mary Sue as main character, wasted a huge opportunity with Finn's arc (while destroying the immersion nonetheless) , wasted time with the ridiculous Phasma's arc (that you could remove without changing anything in the movie), killed Han for no reason and without any effect in the story and a long etc. As you say, both episodes 9 and 8 are bankrupt in the creativity department and when you peek behind the special effects... there is nothing. Literally.
One trick to make this clearer is to say "customers" instead of "fans". As in, "we don't want to cater to our older customers". As in, business 101: "do not attack your own customers" and "do not attack your existing product". I do not recognize Disney's canon fork. I do not accept that they can declare previously canon material is no longer canon. It's my money. I was a customer. Finally, in my opinion, disney attacked the 20% of the customers who were providing 80% of the gross profits in an attempt to expand the market to customers who were providing 20% of the gross profits. That's just bad business.
Mac Mcleod You cant do buissness with people who want to fuck up your product. Even if they pretend to be customers. No store would let you act like the fans behave and still buy their shit. Not a single store. Were talking about being banned from wallmart kinda shit.
Mac Mcleod What? So harassing two actors off Instagram and Twitter. And sending death threats is okay because muh “customer”. I would have reacted the same way. People need to learn that such behavior is not okay. Customers and fans aren’t immune from criticism just because they buy your product.
@@HopelessXzavier the customers were not a problem for 40 years. They lined up and handed over billions of dollars. The problem is not the customers but the new management. Its the new management that is changing the product from tasty and optimistic that fulfilled customer expectations to bitter and dystopic that subverted customer expectations.
@Say What? I agree, if true, that harassing actors for the roles they portray is wrong. Actors have no control once they sign the contract. However... Daisy Ridley has since said, it wasn't harassment but sudden fame. And Ms. Tran didn't give a reason why she left. It was asserted that it was harassment but she has pointedly not confirmed or denied that. I.e. it might simply be the NDA for episode 3. Chris Pratt has also been harassed over Star Lord's actions as if Mr. Pratt had any control over them. In any case, when an employee (who has no responsibility either) deals with an angry customer over a misleading, bad, or broken product.. bad treatment of the employee and even lowest level managers is equally wrong. But angry customers say angry things over I'll cooked food and broken washing machines to employees and managers all the time. And you know what employees and managers don't do if they want to keep their jobs and the customers business? *They don't attack their customers.* It's the first rule of business: Do not attack your customers.
Indeed, the customer isn't always right- but even if they're clearly wrong, you don't attack your customers. That has been the reaction of the directors and franchise owners.
what does TLJ need to prove though? It doesn't have prove shit. While I'll agree that TLJ wasn't a good movie, the reaction its getting is kinda ridiculous. Y'all need to just get the fuck over it. If you don't like new star wars, don't watch new star wars...focus on the canon you like.
True facts. I loved TLJ but Solo was a PASS for me because it was a movie I never wanted and they had no business making. Han Solo isn't supposed to be the focal point of a whole damn story, he is a foil to Luke.
@G Ren I was going to make an argument about the structural and storytelling flaws of this piece of shit, but then I realised you actually used the phrase "arrogance of commoners" seriously. I honestly didn't realise anyone like you really existed.
@G Ren Dear supreme being, I would like to argue that TLJ has many flaws. For example, plotholes. There is also a huge problem with the structure. And I have to mention the obvious issue that is character development which is poorly executed or doesn't exist at all. If you'd be kind enough to listen to a commoner like me I can write you a whole essay on this subject. If my English doesn't please you, I must mention that it's not my first language.
Dear Angry Crusader, a essay is not enough for the super being called G Ren. A film celestial like him does not want to be told by a commoner what a good movie is. He will not react to your comment, because your English is inappropriate. Sincerely Fabian Stobbe.
Worst movie actually, you ever notice how marvel builds itself up step by step and tlj just smashed all the stepping stones in front of them and behind them, but hey it subverts your expectations
Disney wiil end up putting the SW franchise in it's film vault and reboot the series in 15-20 years from now....that is what is going to end up happening.
They won't. Star Wars is a cash cow. They'll keep milking it until its boobs fall off. Star Wars and the DCEU are treating their properties like cash cows. But if you don't look after your cows, and you milk them too hard, their boobs fall off. Everyone knows this. Look after your cows, and their boobs, or suffer your father's fate, you will.
lol Last Jedi made fucking billions Disney won't shelf Star Wars. They will probably slow down with the spinoffs, but the main series will probably go on forever.
The Last Jedi made $1.333 billion dollars world wide on a production budget of 317 million. While that might sound like a good deal at first since on paper it would be a quadrupling of the investet money its actually not. Because Marketing for Blockbusters like these usually doubles the cost of the movie bringing it up to 634 million, so we have cut down the profit to about 699 million (excluding any other deals actors may have made etc). Now from a purely mathematical standpoint thats still great, but now comes the part where you have to compare some movies. The force awakens made over 2 billion dollars, on a budget 100 million dollars smaller and actually quadrupled the 490 million investment to slightly above 2 billion dollars. Such a massive dropoff between 2 star wars movies, a massive name that should basically sell itself does not promise anything good. Especially if you factor in a movie like deadpool that almost sevenfolded their investment. Deadpool actually made only slightly less profit than The Last Jedi at 667 million, and thats not even mentioning marvels ever growing box office intakes. And with all the backlash promising future dropoffs because of pissed off fans Disney does not appear to have such a massive cash cow on their hands afterall.
@@Thatslifebro_ That's only box office numbers. Don't forgot the amount of merchandise Disney will be pumping out in other areas, every Disney Store has a Star Wars section with toys, clothes, tableware, etc.
Now that Disney owns Star Wars, and they've proven they don't have a plan and can't follow the canon, I'm pretty much out. l'll continue enjoying the pre-Disney Star Wars universe, but anything post-Disney is dead to me. It's just a hollow shell of what it once was, a pale imitation.
@@thomasvinelli l never bashed the prequels and l have no plans to see episode 9. Might wanna put a little more effort into your arguments next time, instead of spouting random jibberish and burping up talking points you heard somewhere else.
Yep I just consider it all non canon, a messed up alternative universe. To be honest I have not watched the new films and I don’t think I ever will so it’s easier to ignore.
The only way they could really fix this is to briefly recap the events of episodes 7 and 8, and reveal that it was all a force vision seen by Luke or something, then go ahead with an actual star wars storyline that isn't shit.
I think this is the reverse of your crisis of faith analogy. Lucas had control over the original material, but he was not only cool with, but encouraged people to add to his work. SW under Lucas was inclusive. Disney brought out the chains. All of the various interpretations fans have had and explored with EU material have been burned. There is but one interpretation of the holy SW, and it's what Disney says it is. Have a problem with it? Tough. Follow the party line or be excommunicated. No discussion, no attempt to understand criticism, just fiat rule.
Don't forget that the PR department for Disney told their other employees that SW Fans favorite activity among things Star Wars is to agrue canon. It's funny, it is almost lieke someone massivley upset canon and then took the study, called it god, and then said everyone is an idiot. On another note, I find one of the main things of SW is that Disney's employee's, specifically higher up in the food chain among LucasFilms, openly told the fan base to go fuck themselves and expected their movie to be well watched. All the twitter photos of people with anti-fan mugs and other merchandse, as if it was all one big joke to them. You know what people say back to being told to go fuck themselves? "Yeah, fuck you too." The majority of the fan base is currently telling Disney, or more exactly, certain key figures, to go to hell. Doesn't help that figures in EA, the current holder of SW video games,another medium for story telling in SW is also facing similiar crisis. Hell, I feel like the only reason EA got the stuff is becuase someone is best buds behind the scenes with the same group of peopel, and they all decided to run SW their way. Yeah, thewir way or the highway. Highway is looking pretty good right about now... (Head canon and ignoring most of the new content from Disney is my personal saving grace.)
Johnathan Goodwin Exactly. For example, one thing that I actually liked about The Force Awakens - showing how powerful Kylo Ren was in the Force by holding a blaster bolt for effectively 15 minutes. An example from the comics - the Darth Vader run, with special mention of Lord Momin (thought that he would just be bland, but quickly became a personal favorite among the Sith echelons). I also liked Rogue One - personal favorite of the Disney Wars. Everything else just kind of sucks now though. They destroyed Legends just to pilfer from it, and made cheap knockoffs of what they ripped.
agree, that's exactly what i got from all the dissatisfied fans too. they had a (perhaps political) story they wanted to tell and forced star wars into it, rather than taking the universe for what it was and finding stories within. reminded me a lot of what stone and parker said about why they refused so many south park game ideas, because people came to them with a money-making plan that they'd add south park characters into, rather than presenting a great south park game that they could then figure out how to profit from.
Haha I've said the same thing! Like if it was a coma dream it would actually make sense. I mean I don't like force awakens either but at least the franchise was salvageable with that movie. Now it's just done.
Or just end the next movie with Jar Jar waking up from a terrible dream - he stumbles into Boss Nass's room - knocks something on his head - and gets banished.
Or the Whills rewind time and eradicate Mary Sue from existence, and a new champion is chosen to bring balance to the force. Bonus points if the new champion beheads Kathleen Kennedy and plays kickball with her severed head.
In all seriousness, what I don't appreciate is that Lucasfilm labels dissenters as "misogynists, sexists, racists, bigots" and whatnot and groups them up with the people who actually have criticisms of the current state of Star Wars. It's as if I or anybody else is not allowed to criticize their content or else they will accuse me of being a racist or something. When I have never, ever criticized art from such a bigoted standpoint. I can present to you my critical thoughts and support them with evidence. And I won't criticize you if you disagree with me. We all should be able to share our criticisms without having anyone call us names. I get that Lucasfilm doesn't want to promote the negative reviews on their content. But to label the haters of their content as so many things that they're not is wrong.
Chris Blaze Unfortunately it feels like a lot of people are sabotaging any attempts to have a legitimate discussion over the pros and cons of the new Star Wars lore. I’d love to have a fandom that can come together and be respectful of each other while also being vocal about their concerns, but every comment sections seems to dissolve into harassment and anger whenever somebody disagrees. And unfortunately, this is the one thing you can’t blame Disney for.
Chris Blaze 1. No one labeled the fandom as misogynistic, sexists, racists or bigots. If they did they were talking about the trolls. You know the ones who were being sexist and harassing Daisy off Instagram. And being racist and bigots towards John Boyega, and who also were harassing and being sexist and racist towards Tram until she got off Instagram as well. Like can you provide proof? That they said those things. 2. I’m looking through Rian Johnson tweets right now and here they are: *What we talk about when we talk about manbabies* *On social media a few unhealthy people can cast a big shadow on the wall, but over the past 4 years I’ve met lots of real fellow SW fans. We like & dislike stuff but we do it with humor, love & respect. We’re the VAST majority, we’re having fun & doing just fine.* boundingintocomics.com/2018/06/13/rian-johnson-and-john-boyega-attack-star-wars-fans-and-consumers-at-their-own-risk/ So the only ones who should be offended are those who were harassing the actors and actresses. So if you weren’t harassing people then why are you getting offended? Rian Johnson clearly tweeted and stated again again that they are open to criticisms. But guess what; complaining about SJWs and feminists all day and calling Rey a Mary Sue isn’t criticism. They are clearly open to criticisms but to act like the harassment that they received online is “criticism”. Is dumb.
It's not just dead to you. It's dead, plain and simple. Some people don't have a taste of their own and think they must be safe if they just stick to something that always used to be big, but they are not that many. Most people already left and they are going to follow once they realise that. TLJ is a gaping wound in the body of Star Wars - it's still standing, but only because it didn't have time to bleed out. With Solo, blood pumped out of that wound but it won't be until Episode 9 that the whole extent of the damage will be visible. I guess it will be a fountain of gore and that'll make it collapse.
Not for me. Because the rest of the franchise still exists. And because one single stupid film isn't gonna destroy the greatest space opera franchise of all time.
I literally just thought (during the midichlorian count clip) If midichlorians decide force power... couldn't people just use blood transfusions to steal/gain force power? We use transfusions today for all sorts of reasons, so couldn't someone like palpatine with all his power and resources have farms of people like Anakin with high counts, just draining them for their power? I mean, I'm not saying that's what I'd do... but that's totally what I'd do.
In old EU, they used blood of Sifo Dyas, during Grievous transformation to cyborg, in hopes he will become force sensitive, but it didn't work. Sorry for my bad grammar.
this had been tried but it was found that in a new body the midiclorians react negatively and essentially die off i believe, which is why you cant really clone a force user successfully. basically the body rejects the midiclorians.
In a single paragraph you've written a much more interesting plot than TLJ. Such an idea could have even brought legitimacy to the idea that 'the Force' is just bacteria.
+Kombat Wombat matter of fact, in the book darth sidious, darth plagieus discovers that EVERYONE has at least SOME midicloroans in thier body and if you remove them then that person dies, essentially stating that midicloroans are like the physical aspect of your soul and the life force of everything.
I don't even consider myself a huge Star Wars fan, and I don't know if I'm interested in ever seeing a SW movie in theaters again after TLJ. The Force Awakens wasn't very good either, but MAN TLJ is like one of the more terrible movies I've ever seen in my life...
It really brings it into perspective if you take the time to watch the Mr plinkett review of it. He proposed an alternate direction they could have gone that sounded so much more interesting. Already guaranteed to make oodles of money no matter what movie they put out, yet they still decided to sheep out on TFA.
The film didn't feel unique or incredible to me. In every other star wars film there were points were I was like 'Whoa!' or just 'weird!' But there was nothing incredible or original in these. Beyond that, Disney made several rookie character mistkaes - not so much with Solo, but with 7 and 8. Kylo Ren is most scary the first time you see him, and then gets progressively lamer. Rey doesn't have any heroic flaws - or at least none hat get in her way. Somehow, the dark side doesn't seem to work the same way. And lightspeed ramming breaks the clone wars.
I'm not a huge Star Wars either, I actually liked TFA well enough. But TLJ is not a good movie. My girlfriend, who's a much bigger fan than I am, I think put it best: TLJ felt like was just desperately telling you it was STAR WARS every so often rather than actually telling a story that matters literally at all. The entire movie was a zero sum, but hey... have you seen the laser swords cause it's STAR WARS!?!?!?! We added a bunch of people who don't add anything to plot or matter in the slightest but did you see our big space ship in the STAR WARS?!?! I've certainly seen worse movies. I have a burning fucking hatred for Jonah Hex for example. But TLJ? The entire movie frankly would be completely forgotten inside of a year if the name "Star Wars" wasn't on it.
The thing that seriously sucks is that both of the new movies had some brilliant moments, completely ruined by lazy, corporate think-tank writing. Really, if you cut out about half of TLJ's run time (pointless sub-plots, inexplicable decisions etc.), there actually might be a decent movie in there, aside from Rey being a total Mary Sue of course.
It's gone poorly for Disney so far - each new Star Wars movie flops even worse than the one before, box office runs are weak, home media sales are awful, toy/merchandise sales are dismal, vendors and retailers are returning unsold (unsellable) inventories while refusing to order any more. I'm guessing Disney is not as villainous as the fans assert (even though Disney's people have been stupidly dismissive, insulting, hostile, and petulant). But Disney's stuff also isn't good enough to attract much interest from new fans. It's a money hole and they're desperately digging themselves deeper while trying to find a way out.
I love your argument, but the main issue that's pushing this over the edge (beyond the prequels at least) is that the new directors are actively insulting the fans. Lucus may have expressed his frustrations, but he didn't try to insult us in an attempt to mask his mistakes.
It's a good but decisive story and the people in charge are responding to grown children verbally attacking people because they don't like what happened to a movie franchise.
For me the issue is that Tlj breaks the lore and old and new characters with little to no explanation. In addition the story didn't move foward and the characters didnt grow. It forcefully unplugged me from the franchise. They cut the value of a 4 billion dollar franchise by disconnecting a significant amount of the fanbase de. I want to love it again. But if feels empty to me.
Sorry mate Star Wars has always been diverse White, Black, Yellow, multi coloured. Male, female humans and aliens so diversity was never an issue. My favourite Star Wars Character of all time is Asoka perfect character development and just amazing writing brought her to life. I absolutely hated TLJ, to the point of where I have decided I’m done with this trilogy I won’t be seeing episode 9 in the cinema or paying a penny to see it. The issues I had with TLJ had absolutely nothing to do with race or gender. I absolutely hated TLJ because of the following. :The most boring chase sequence in cinema history, the most pointless side arc missions ever as they story went no where, the horrific humour forced into the movie, the hard left wing political correctness garbage that’s not needed in Star Wars or any other SCFI movie, the zero character development, the character assassination of Luke Skywalker, a beloved character as Ackbar was to be tossed aside for a purple haired clone of Queen Kennedy, the list goes on and on. I love strong well writing characters, TFA gave us the start of that and TLJ just smashed it and the fandom to bits. I have nothing against those who enjoyed this movie, but honestly racist and sexist I am not, Lucas film and tonnes of critics have labels those who didn’t like this diverse breakthrough as Racist, Sexist, White men, manbabies, living in mums basement. If Lucas film just accepted a lot of people didn’t like the direction TLJ went that would of been that. But they and certain supporters have attacked us and labelled us all the same as less than 1% of the fandom who are racist and sexist and if you took Star Wars away they would still be racist and sexist. I seriously hope you and others enjoy episode 9 and that it brings the fandom together but I’m done.
a "Crisis" would imply that something can be saved. yes Disney can do a complete 180, restore Legends and call their movies a mistake. who are we kidding... Star Wars is dead and all that is left is a body in a pine box where people can view the corpse for 10 cents a head. George Lucas selling Lucas Films to Disney was his big FU to fans that hated JarJar.
Tony H - the *ONLY* reason The Farce Awakens was a "success" at the box office is because fans went to go see the first installment of Disney Star Wars, myself included. as far as Episode 9 goes... the same people are in charge at Lucas Films and as the saying goes "You cant fix stupid"
Seriously true. I saw the Darth jar jar theory vid that had him stating that jar jar was his favourite around the time he sold. Episode 2 wouldvé been amazing had he gone through with his vision and not bend to fans.. so sad actually
No, just as they had nothing to do with a lot of things that they still fan the flames.. They just want the US to be on the brink of a cultural war, so they are trying to make this debacle fit into the cultural war and make it a left-right thing, when it is not.
the study this "russian bots" theory came from was based on 200 tweets, sent to Rrian Johnson's Twitter from December 2017 to July 2018. I'd say the idea of such a small amount of tweets being responsible for "50% of the Backlash against TLJ" is simply laughable.
I personally see the Star Wars crisis as being a perfect parallel to the in-universe history of the franchise. The period of time when the Original Trilogy came out is like the time of peace between the Ruusan Reformation and The Phantom Menace, in which everything was good and pure, while the Prequel Trilogy is parallel to it's very own Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones in which fans started questioning some of the creative choices, much like how the Jedi Order and the Republic both grew more corrupt and disillusioned and one Jedi (being Anakin Skywalker) began questioning the authority of the Jedi Council, but the Jedi were still there to protect the galaxy, and the time when the Clone Wars series aired is, well, the Clone Wars. The Disney buyout is, of course, the moment when Palpatine declared himself Emperor and formed the Galactic Empire, and the purging of the Legends canon is Order 66. Suddenly things begin to come in line with each other, with Star Wars Rebels being Star Wars Rebels and Rouge One being the Battle of Scarif. The release of The Last Jedi is pretty much when Alderaan was destroyed and people throughout the galaxy began to question the legitimacy of the Empire and the Rebellion was now in full force. Right now, the very fandom has become the Rebellion, and we're closely approaching our Empire Strikes Back, so things aren't over yet. You know what they say after all, life imitates art.
ClandestineOstrich Hollywood sucks 95% of the time. If you wanna see a cult film done right check out blade runner 2049. Everything Star Wars should’ve been
The lesson here is, if you want to continue the ongoing story, respect what has gone before. If you want to branch out in a new direction, start that new direction in a new story. DON'T try to do both at once (i.e. branch out in a new direction right slap-bang in the middle of an ongoing story and ignore all that's gone before) because your audience already knows their lore far better than you and they WILL call you out on it. Yes, Star Wars needs to tell new stories, but it needs to finish the existing ones first - not shout "BORED NOW!" right in the middle of the story and just make up random shit.
This is pretty idiotic. There's no problem with the "legitimacy" of Disney over Star Wars. The problem is quality. There's nothing to do with listening to Lucas, there were tons of people who rightfully pointed out what he did wrong in the prequel trilogy. The removal of most/if not all of the Expanded Universe, and even changing parts of the force, would have been perfectly fine if they didn't just fail at writing. Even GoT has the same issue. No one gives a shit who writes it, it's just that the TV series has ran its plot head-long into fan service.
*"The removal of most/if not all of the Expanded Universe, and even changing parts of the force, would have been perfectly fine if they didn't just fail at writing."* This. They replaced the EU with current Hollywood conventions, and those suck.
I think the video is right, and legitimacy is a major factor. If you make a mistake, but have legitimacy, (e.g. Lucas's Jar Jar) people can get past it. But it's the double whammy of making mistakes before your legitimacy is established, (e.g. Rian's Luke) that gets you in real trouble.
It's been over a year or so and the defenders of the Last Jedi are still holding out hope that The Last Jedi will mature like a fine wine. Guess what, that dead horse is starting to rot away. And people are still making hate videos about that turd of a movie. I don't see that changing any time soon.
It's been over a year and people are still talking about it like it was released yesterday. Get over it and move Jesus you fucking nerds are something else
juan241996, you are talking about a fanbase that kept Star Wars alive for years before the prequels. They are the reason that KK even have a job now. They do not just "get over it". That is Disney's big mistake. They treated the SW franchise like it was a quickie money cashgrab.
Disney these days like beating cash cows and milking dead horses. For some reason people went to see live action Lion King though so I don't see this getting better in the future. Brand recognition is all that matters when people will consume garbage regardless.
The main problem with the new SW movies is not necessarily change in canon. It is because, with the possible exception of Rogue1, they were poor or mediocre movies. There were a few things that I really liked about the movies, some of which other fans really hate (I actually loved how Snoke was unceremoniously dispatched). But this is all outweighed by the really poor story telling in TLJ. I am not a SW fanatic, but even as a casual consumer, I am not overly enthusiastic by Disney's productions. One person, I fell sympathy for is Kelly Marie Tran, I did not like her character, but Disney should be blamed for that, not her. The actress was offered a role and did her job. All the hateful abuse she received was shameful and not justified.
With KMT, I wonder how much hate she actually got vs how much of it was the media trying to convince us that was going on. LucasFilm is openly hostile to the fanbase and are doing a great job at manipulating the media for their own ends. They're literally blaming Russian bots on all the poor user reviews of TLJ.
I disagree. A lot of the hate towards Star Wars came after Last Jedi, the second movie. If there was this crisis due to power change as stated why wasn't the outrage after Force Awakens? Sure, there were the purists that bitched and moaned about Force Awakens but the majority view seemed to be pretty positive, it's only in Last Jedi that masses of angry people came out. I don't think the "crisis" is because new people are in control, again, Force Awakens was received pretty well, but it's because the new people in power desecrated Star Wars in a lot of people's minds with Last Jedi; it's not a new or different interpretation (to use the Catholic Church metaphor) but straight blasphemy. Add to that the response from Disney and the new powers, telling people they were dumb because they didn't "get" the film, or were sexist and misogynist because they didn't like parts or characters. Insulting the fans (people buying your product) is a sign that the product you're selling is shit; when people complained that Rey's parentage and Snoke's origin story lines were just thrown into the Sarlacc Pit after being built up in Force Awakens the new people in power responded with a fuckin' hostile pushback! I'd also add that Star Wars is a religion to a lot of people (literal and figurative) and much like how the Catholic Church abused it's position for material gain which angered the faithful, Disney has no respect for Star Wars and instead *ONLY* views it as a cash cow to be milked-that pissed people off. The "crisis" isn't fan originated in this case, the "crisis" originates from the top-down.
*"If there was this crisis due to power change as stated why wasn't the outrage after Force Awakens?"* Because people were so hyped-up on the sugar rush of a new installment, that they didn't notice how bad it was. There were a lot of excuses made for the movie's flaws, because the expectation/hope was that the next episode (TLJ) would clear up the ambiguity and justify their faith. Then, when TLJ dropped and those same fans realized just how much they'd been duped by a hype machine, the shit hit the fan HARD. Ultimately, if all those fans had listened to the 'purists' the first time, they would not have had their illusions shattered so harshly by the middle-finger which was unveiled to them, and the reaction would not have been as intense.
That's pretty much how every legitimation crisis in history works if there is a peaceful transition of power. The population is often hesitant but willing to give the new government a chance. The legitimacy isn't called into question until the new regime seriously deviates from the old in some way. As long as the new leadership is only doing things that everyone agrees the old leadership would have done, nobody challenges them. It's once they try to make their own mark that causes the crisis.
there was a crisis over TFA: the "Mary Sue" and the "remake" arguments are an example, but the the hype for having a new movie quickly covered it. Than it risen again with Rogue One, and than again with TLJ. The "Franchise fatigue" quickly build up if you release a new movie each year, and with it criticism become louder and louder.
@Lodatz I guess that's a fair view. For me, i take a lighter approach to Force Awakens because 1) It was part of a trilogy so if stuff isn't explained, there's 2 other movies to do it...sadly the makers churned out a turd with TLJ...but i still maintain that for the first movie in a new trilogy it had potential. 2) Star Wars fans are zealots and Disney was under extraordinary pressure because they had to: a) make a movie that didn't suck [hard for any movie] b) not make a Jar Jar 2 c) connect the new movies to the old ones d) prove themselves as capable as George Lucas.
The first three stories were about Luke becoming a hero, and joining a fight to save the galaxy from evil. The second three films were about the fall of an old, just world, and the rise of an evil empire, and Anakin's descent into darkness. The third two films were about a Mary Sue jedi, a Mary Sue General (who kamikaze lightspeeded all the bad guys to death), and how the boys are just kind of there. Oh yeah, and kill all the grandpas.
if you want to make a triology. Make sure you have a plan for it
Legit advice! Even George Lucas had a plan (sort of) for the Prequel trilogy.
The OG Star Wars Trilogy was not planned. That is a myth Lucas endorsed.
@@RedJax69 but at least he took into consideration what he did before the next movie.
Daniel Alexander episode 4 was supposed to be a stand-alone film, but once plans for sequels was confirmed they actually did write out the plotline for 5 and 6. the myth that the entire OT was done on the fly is the real myth. Even if it was true that it was all done on the fly, that doesnt mean it would be right to do it again, trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice is a dumb idea.
DarkSpyro707 Lucas is notorious for not writing scripts or plot lines til the last minute. Go watch SF Debris's series on the making of the Star Wars films. It is really good and give the viewer a real understanding of behind the scenes.
I'm afraid the Boycott will be quite operational when Episode IX arrives.
Regardless of my thoughts on finding identity in a movie franchise and this situation as a whole, reading that caught me off guard and cracked me up. I even read it with the emperor's voice in my head. well done sir.
I would never suggest a boycott. but boy, I do love cots!
Dammit I'm the 67th like on this comment. I undid Order 66.
Yes, yes...Didn't see Solo until it got to Redbox for $1...probably do the same for Ep9. Won't buy a single product either. F Em.
@@nocturne000 Awesome. It shouldn't and doesn't matter to me where any of us fans stand on the current climate, as long as we can appreciate a good line from our favorite franchise.
God dammit, how many times can it be said? We don't mind the "subverting of expectations" as long as it's done with competence!
They'll never know our true problems with the film because the media portrays it as something else. They set up a bunch of strawmen.
My issue is they take well made EU characters like thrawn and disnefy em to make em...i dunno...to me they feel less impressive like they KNOW they’re written badly and want to live up to the old EU version, like thrawn, yes he’s just as terrifying but to me it feels like the disney version’s missing something
Not just competence but also relevance. Just like anything else, subverting expectations shouldn't occur unless it serves the story. Unfortunately the story doesn't seem to a priority in these sequels, which is why they aren't worth re-watching. You can only enjoy the cinematography and special effects so many times before becoming bored. These sequels will be forgotten soon.
@@Nanostevenson Agreed, but it also doesn't help that some of the movie makers apparently have a disdain for the very fans that support their work. Some liked it and others didn't - their attitude towards the ones that didn't shows me that they do not have reverence for any of the material they are creating. We're manbabies and whiny nerds.
As far as I'm concerned and in line with this video, the extended universe has more legitimacy in its current non-canon status than the Last Jedi ever will.
@@Riftimmortal yup, Star Wars before Star Walt any damn day of my damn life.
I just saw Aquaman and a smiling crowd left talking about their favorite parts. When I left the Last Jedi it was dead quiet and folks walked out like at a funeral. I got my money's worth at Aquaman. I only got angry at The Last Jedi.
L. Peyton Adams Aquaman May have been tasteless schlock, but at least it was entertaining and sometime unintentionally funny. Last Jedi was just boring and pathetic
You brought my forgotten memories back. OK I do not want to be too emotional here, but I think a few tears might have fallen from my eyes after seeing Luke being a pathetic dick. These two movies are very big disappointments.
The Last Jedi was supposed to fuck your shit up
Well said L. Peyton Adams. I agree.
I don't get it ,you want more of the same .Just keep making Star wars the same way it was made in the 70's and 80's...boring!
1:19...you can see Mark Hamill's utter heartbreak at the failed attempts to save this franchise
He should have directed the movie
@youtube can eat my ass with a spoon you're really eager to fuck his wrinkle jedi ass don't you?
Please, he is acting .He knows he bread and butter come from the fans and he plays that card.... If he really felt that bad he would have said no to the part after reading the script...not like daisy wouldn't use some cgi Grand Moff Tarkin ,etc to make there movie look cheaper...
@@a6eman he signed a contract for the whole trilogy before The Last Jedi script was even a thing, that means court, lawyers and losing millions, it's easier for you to say hey Mark just don't do it.
Fair point ,wasn't trying to too literal, I just don't think he's as choked about it other than his payday is now dead. @@lilliamcruz6778
That clip of Mark Hamill made me very sad. You could tell his frustration and his wanting to warn fans about how it ruined something he spent years if his life on (and knew many fans had spent exponentially more time on). We can all admit the prequel trilogy wasn't great, but it was based out of good natured intentions and a lack of editor push back on Lucas. The Last Jedi is a calculated spitting in the face of a fandom. It is a malicious film that seeks to tear down a franchise from the ground up by telling fans that the things they loved weren't all that great and that the future doesn't have any roots in the past. What a terrible message.
If you took that from the new movies then idk if there's a chance for you to ever enjoy or appreciate these new starwars movies cus that's not what it was saying at all
Gellister SBB64 Tell us why you think the prequels were bad
sadness related to intellectual property is a weak argument against experimentation... art is inherently sad, fucking with it is the nature of "a new hope"... rian Johnson is not the death star, he's just a guy with a weird first name... Christmas is a good example of something that hasn't changed in America in a long time, but if we could find a new way to celebrate it (say every three years or so, or with spaghetti cloud monster parody) it might be a little sad but change happens based on legitimate externalities... star wars is so legit a franchise there's no reason to try and give it a cookie cutter assembly pattern... all the more credit to Johnson for doing it on Mickey's dime
@@PanicbyExample The problem is when the original and prequel trilogies was controlled by the man who made the franchise. Swapping directors for each film and hiring someone like Rian Johnson is a bad decision. You can tell he has no knowledge of the franchise he's been put in charge of. The director needs to be a fan themselves, and someone who understands the universe. JK Rowling didn't direct the Harry Potter films, but she was heavily involved behind the scenes the saga because she best understands her characters. Kevin Feige is a bigger Marvel fan than anyone, whilst the Russo Bros. clearly know how to direct a Marvel film better than Joss Whedon did. The DC films are a perfect example here, directors that clearly have no idea what they're doing with characters they think they know about.
Spazza42 But the OT had a different director for each movie. It’s very noticeable. The tonal shift between ANH, ESB, and RotJ is so obvious. The prequels feel cohesive because they were directed by GL but they’re also lambasted because he had so much control. I think Rian is very much a Star Wars fan. I don’t think we would have the scene between Luke and Yoda is he wasn’t a fan. That is a wonderfully crafted piece of Star Wars with a good lesson. I think Rian saw more potential in the franchise it tried to push the boundaries a bit. It wasn’t universally well-received. He took a risk. Good on him.
While I very much enjoyed Wisecrack using the lens of philosophy to examine the issue, I can't help but think they over-baked the cake, if you will. For 41 years we have been told a rather consistent bedtime story. There have been twists and turns in that tale but it has all remained relatively consistent. Then an addition to that story is added that really doesn't sound like that story at all. The fans probably could have accepted even a radical entry as long as that entry made some kind of sense. TLJ told a bad story. Love the fans or hate them. Love Kennedy and Johnson or hate them. A bad story was told and every excuse from fatigue to sexism and racism had been used as a smoke screen. But the real deal is that a group of people told a bad story, a group of people didn't like that bad story and now it's no longer acceptable to have an opinion on a bad story. We will never heal if that is the path we take.
I'd say both your answer and the one provided by the video are valid and are in line with one another.
I don’t really understand your statement. Personally I enjoyed most elements of the story, and I think a lot of the character beats logically extend the characters of the original trilogy. Luke in TLJ screws up in similar ways, for example.
But mostly what I don’t understand is the absolute conviction that the story is “bad.” People could say “I didn’t like what happened” or “I don’t like the portrayal of the characters” or “I just didn’t enjoy it,” but no, it must be taken as a given that the movie is bad. It *has* to be taken as objective truth, but it’s hard for me to take that seriously when I personally liked the movie...
This guy gets it. It' s not that different people handled the new trilogy, but that they did a bad job of it. TFA didn't totally fuck up and fans were O.K. with it. TLJ is a total fuck up and no one likes it. My dad likes Star Wars and doesn't know the EU at all. He saw the TLJ and went "what the fuck is this shit?". It makes no sense at many points. It's a bad story period.
The story of it IS bad. That's the biggest problem. Did I like Luke in this? Yes. Did I like Vice Admiral Holdo or however you spell her name? Not particularly but I could have grown to like her and was expecting to do such initially. Are Kylo or Rey necessarily bad characters? No. Rose or Finn? Also no though Rose feels like she needs some more time to bake before she gets her end scene because that end scene was shit. ('we protect people' 'What do you think I was doing sacrificing my life to take out the big cannon? Instead you might have killed us both to protect me and let everyone else die.' Not to mention her literally teleporting to do that since she was a mile away 5 seconds prior.) But the story itself as told in TLJ is poorly put together and even more poorly attached. Its told in such a way that time matters yet is entirely inconsistent, all the answers that matter to the prior movie are ripped down and pissed on, new characters are introduced and murdered, old characters are brought back and murdered. (Ackbar and Holdo. I legitimately thought this would be the movie they killed Leia and Holdo her protege would be learning to fill her shoes. Instead she made terrible calls then commited suicide in a admitably cool way that opened a pandora's box they shouldn't have touched in the form of FTL suicide bombing, one of the most destructive tactics in the StarWars universe that is ignored because then you start asking questions like 'why aren't their missiles just really sturdy boxes with a FTL drive on them that can be fired to vaporise everything in their path' X-WINGS are FTL capable. One X-wing is equal in value to a star destroyer in destructive power when FTL suicide bombing becomes a possibility. The rebel alliance could have cost the Empire 150,000,000 credits for just 90,000, and that's just the basic star destroyer cost compared to the basic X-Wing. With how many more expensive variants there are and the fact that each star destroyer houses tons and tons of Tie Fighters that cost goes up substantially. Put a droid in the seat or just a trigger mechanism and you can even do this damage with no loss of life on your side. You could even debate this could have been used to fuck up the death star since notably people actually crashed into the death star during the run and it affected the people inside and caused explosions. Aim a damn X-wing at the center mass and blast it with faster then light particles. Boom death star down at the cost of a damn X-wing. Or if they are lucky it only does massive damage and doesn't cause a chain reaction.....but if one damn bomb down an exhaust port could do it.... The second death star seems like it might have had better odds against it with its enhanced planetary shielding MAYBE being good enough to protect it without it taking too much damage.)
TLJ seemed legitimately more concerned with taking expectations and destroying them then making a movie, something that feels more and more likely to be the truth when they apparently fought on a planet covered in salt for the final part of the movie after doing everything they could to ensure people would hate what they did to the plot threads left over from TFA. The man who made it even went on to say that he wanted people to leave either loving it or hating it. Well he got what he wanted. He alienated about 90% of the fanbase but he got it.
@@Sandman382 Well said, totally agree.
He looked so sad when people clapped for Ryan’s justification for flipping the fans the bird
Razzama Slazza he legitimately facepalmed
Like those people were clueless
Given how carefully Disney manages these events, I wonder if there was an "Applause" light to cue the audience.
Mark Hamill: "I hope you all choke to death on your own crap" * Applause Light * * audience claps wildly *
That is why I real Last Jedi apologists they are wrong. I mean, if they are not wrong, he at least have Luke on our side.
It was a backhanded compliment. The audience didn't get it then. I think they get it now.
God I never thought I’d agree with the term “legitimacy of Lucas” but here we are
Woot, religious studies helping us understand 21st century fandoms! Love it.
@The Bandog This is not mainly an explanation of why the film failed, though. It's mainly an explanation of why the manner in which Disney bungled the film pissed people off so much and so persistently.
I'd say it's not random if fandom comes from the word fanatics ...
8:04 what is written here? In which language i mean?
@@dusty6299 Lebenswelt?
That would be german.
Damha
_Lebenswelt_ is a german term.
It means _Life-World._
*Mark Hamill:* "A lot of times I would say to Rian, 'you gotta think about the fans,' and he would say, 'no, we gotta think about the story, and we gotta think about our movie,' which I, you know, uh - "
*One Rian Johnson fan:* (clapping) "Woo!"
*Audience:* * polite clapping *
*Mark Hamill:* * tired facepalm *
Mark Hamill understands it. His entire career has revolved around fandoms. It is why he is such a beloved actor among fans (maybe not among Hollywood).
Kevin Feige being a fanboy himself understood this.
Kathleen Kennedy and her merry band of chucklefucks don't.
What gets me is he says we have to think about the story but then spent 40 minutes of his movie on canto bite not serving the story at all
Fuck the fans. The only thing that is relevant is making a good movie. The fans can't decide on anything. Making a good film should be their only priority. I couldn't care less what Mark Hamil thinks. He has spent the past forty years making one bad decision after the other. Have you seen him in The Flash? Pretty cringe-worthy He got lucky when he was the part as the Joker the the animated series. Voiceover is where actors go when they can't find work. Excuse me if I take his word with a grain of salt. .
@@notvcinema8741 If I may: I am NOT a Rian Johnson fanboy. In fact, I think his films try to be smarter than they are, and usually end up with HUGE problems as a result (if Looper and TLJ are any indication: both of these are VERY guilty of this phenomenon). Episode VIII is a very flawed film, but that does not render the initial statement incorrect in and of itself. Giving audiences exactly what they want is NOT the best way to make a memorable, good film with staying power. "Giving the fans what they want" is the filmic equivalent of fast food, the lowest common denominator. If I have to watch another Star Wars film where they just re-hash the Death Star, that'll be a MILLION times worse than all the flaws of TLJ put together, for example. Spectacle is not preferable to new ideas, creative impulses, and art - even in popcorn flicks like Star Wars.
@@jan-erikella7772 Rian Johnson: Subverting Expectations through anti-climax.
When you expect a great movie, and the writer/director/producer "subvert" your expectation
And delivers said great movie.
@Doobs Yep. We're in the post-quality era of storytelling
@G RenI mean I am not gonna take sides but rotten tomatoes is pretty poor medium for movies being great. Essentially its medium of movie being above average by average total of weither the movie was good or not (>50%). 97% doesnt equal A+ (97%) movie per say it could be any where from 51% to 97% while the extremes are not as likely. There is something to be said about the cultural biases and social economic implications that effect critics. For example when comics where known for being bright and cheerful. The dark knight subverted that expectation thus why it was praised. But if you would put in the era of 90s comics the same praise probably be distain instead. A good example of rotten tomatoes being somewhat skewed is black panther final fight on the rail way the cgi was Universally criticized for it yet it still got 97%. For a movie that main focuses is action having a 10 minute fight scene look awful in today standard of cgi for AAA companies doesnt seem like a 97% rating. The movie was good but wasn't even as nearly ambitious as infinity war nor have the story significance. Still black pather is rotten tomatoes best movie in ranking. I dont thinking deriving any thing more than movie being good to watch from tomato meter is advisable. Especially when each move rating is on the assumption that the critics understand the story as whole before hand. Even then audiences and critic scores conflict greatly due the fault that critics experience the same troupes and themes over and over again And weigh more value on the the new and brave concepts rather then how deep or significant it is. Not all critics do that but its big enough amount to see that trend. Although audiences may not be as vivid consumers of media they shouldnt be discounted. A story loved by millions is going to last longer than a story loved by thousands because critics love something doesnt mean its gonna be a cultural corner stone.
Your point would ring true if you had an actual average score of every critic weighted by the critics significance to movie industry. And a contrasting audience score. But even then when social and cultural trends change that will cause a change of perspective for the movie. To conclude If this movie can only stand on its merit of subversion then over time when expectation invert or subverting become popular you may see a stark contrast of critics as you see today.
Numbers do matter but you need the data and context to back it up
Edit: this should be obvious but it should be assumed that not every >50% rating doesn't necessarily agree are among the same sentiment of subversion. As the rating can hinder on visual, actor preformance, story, cgi, music, etc because one person like the move doesnt imply its for the same reason as you specify unless directly monitored. The same sentiment can be said for below
G Ren it’s not a “fact” that the movie was good because a group of hand-selected writers said so. What was the audience score?
I'm ok with Rey being a nobody, I'm pretty ok with Snoke being a nobody. I'm NOT ok with Luke being a nobody...
He saved the rebels and will continue to inspire a new generation of jedi. Yes, this happened in TLJ.
The luke that everybody swears to hate and say that’s not my luke in the last Jedi was the definition of Luke’s character.
1. He is a murderer, he murders tons of people, when mind tricks didn’t work on Jabba plan B was to just blow his head off. However he does have compassion especially for his family which leads to point 2.
2. The Jedi are evil (from a certain point of view.) obi wan and Yoda were training luke to kill Vader, they didn’t tell him Vader is his father because that would interfere with luke killing Vader. They don’t have the same compassion luke has, obi wan showed signs of it and could have spared the galaxy 20 years of imperial reign and civil war.
After return of the Jedi luke sought out the ancient Jedi texts and became a proper Jedi master, and when Ben showed the first signs of the dark side Luke’s Jedi instinct told him he needs to snuff it out. However luke realized what he was doing and stopped himself. He never murdered Ben. At the finale of the movie he didn’t murder Ben, even though he probably could have. Instead he causes a diversion, allows the last of the resistance to escape and spares Bens life, possibly in hopes to show mercy, lead by example, and show Ben there isn’t just good and evil, Jedi and sith. And Ben can choose a path for himself, like luke did.
He wasn't a nobody. In the movie he was a person that made a crucial mistake but redeemed himself by sacrificing himself by saving the Resistance.
In fact that was one of the themes of the movie. Even heroes make mistake and it's about how they redeem themselves as what happened to Luke, to Poe, and to Finn.
I have no problem with Luke's character in the Last Jedi. I actually like some of the stuff they did with him. What bothers me is would Luke really have run away and hid after Ben turns to the Dark Side? He couldn't have been scared of Snoke and Kylo Ren because they both fear him so much they spend years trying to find and kill him. The only thing I can think of is he was too ashamed of himself to face Leia and Han after what he almost did to their son, but surely he would have gone after Snoke before the First Order rose to power. So why didn't he? The movie never explains why he himself never took any action other than he wanted to let the Jedi die, but surely he could have done that by not teaching anyone else and still kick Snoke's ass.
@@markcamp1878 "The luke that everybody swears to hate and say that’s not my luke in the last Jedi was the definition of Luke’s character. " Factually wrong...and an example of how average joe doesn't understand how character development works.
Russian bots don't leave tons of Star Wars Merchandise on the shelves, unsold
Russian bots have no class then.
They love buying all forms of Americana for the motherland to study...
You really don't understand how propaganda works.
1. You have big problems
2. Blame someone else
3. Problems magically go away
...
4. Profit!
From Russia with love ;)
Cooperate power lets you get away whit crazy bullish conspiracies, someone needs to tell Alex Johnes!
As a writer I just can't understand or see the practicality in changing writers throughout a trilogy. There's bound to be contradictions and stutters, let alone having the second writer throw out everything the original writer did. I have no idea how they'll make the third film cohesive and tie up all the loose ends.
I almost get the impression that they gave the movie to RJ and let him do anything he wanted. That can't be right, though, can it?
It worked for the OT don't know if they followed any plan Lucas left tho
@@juan241996 well, lucas had the storys written before they started filming or at least he had a grand plan. In an interview he stated that he had plans for 9 films very early on. As far as I know JJ had a general story for the new trilogy as well, but for some reason KK allowed RJ to write his own dumb shit. And it feels a lot like he did that unsupervised.
I am also very curious what they will make of the third movie. Will it be a abomination or a somewhat decent film? Judging by the last 2 movies of the trilogy iam expecting the first. Fortunately after the third movie this horrible 'trilogy' will come to a close and perhaps we can get a new and fresh story set in the star wars universe. Also if disney cant come up with something on their own just pick any of the books, comics or games of starwars, doesnt matter what they choose it will be better than the last trilogy.
Short answer: They won't.
4:40
While the prequel movies themselves were rejected the prequel era itself never was. Many embraced it and many still consider it the greatest era of Star Wars.
marinus18 those movies weren’t even rejected. You had the old timers who couldn’t get over that they weren’t made for them nexesssrily but my nephews loved those movies as kids growing up when they saw them and heck I being on the younger side loved those movies. Still prefer them to the originals. These new ones I just don’t know the first I could live with but the last Jedi was just what? What was it? It’s amazing how rian Johnson killed an entire universe
@@renlysotherlover294 The universe is not dead at all my dude. I think many of the fans who grew up with the prequel trilogy, original trilogy, and even the expanded universe are doing what the Star wars fans who saw the original trilogy did to the prequels; bash on the actors, the directors, and come up with the same narrative saying "Star wars is ruined".
Sure, Disney should consider the fans in some areas. But I think Disney has recognized the pattern that the fandom has started to make; Love the old trilogy, hate the prequels, love the prequels, hate the Sequel trilogy. It's repeating and will continue to do so for years to come.
@@blessingtheplatypus9961 Yes I thought the same way because I grew up with the prequels and especially The Clone Wars TV Show, but it's just different with these new films. Fans knew what was the Ending of the prequels and lucas had a certain plan about the story and how he wanted to tell it. That story of anakin skywalker, that good man who darth vader once was always existed in his and fans were just expecting to much imo. The original trilogy is one of the best if not THE best trilogy in the history of cinema, definitely the most iconic one, and fans were expecting to see something on the same level, but that's just super hard to do. These new movies, they certainly also started with alot of expectations and what did they give us. Basically a remake of episode 4 at the beginning. Ok cool, theres still two films to go and the fist one wasn't even bad when you talk about it strictly as a star wars movie, was it. But then Ryan Johnson comes in and doesn't make a bad movie if you talk about it as A movie, it's actually really good, the character development, the story, the plot. But it is A BULLSHIT star wars movie. It just doesn't fit. That's not luke skywalker, the man who believed in the good in a cyborg kind monster who killed children and murdered his whole order, and now luke wants to kill his nephew kid from behind, wtf? Also, theres so much more this film vould have done, talk about the past, review the history of jedi and the sith, but no Johnson has to be, imo, so fucking egoistic and do his "own thing" and kill the past. Noone fucking ever wanted that. The story was great, it was beautiful, why tf kill it, why forget it??? You could basically watch the sequels without episode 8 and still understand the whole plot. What I try to say is that the Sequels aren't "bad" movies if xou view them as movies only, but many people, including me, just don't like the story, man ok cool new star wars movies, but we never wanted this story?! Darth Vaders redemption was perfect, and now its dust. That story is just unorganized and bad planned, it's shameful. And of ckurse they try to promote their sequel trilogy the most now so that its going to be accepted by the younger generation just like it was by us with the prequels, but thats just not the same
@@lukaspilic2206 I understand your opinion bro, even though I don't entirely agree with it.
But thanks for keepin' it civil
@@blessingtheplatypus9961 thank you for reading my whole answer mister, and let me know with what you don't agree if you want, I've got time
I felt like TLJ was so concerned with "killing the past" that it didn't serve any other purpose but than to try and end the franchise. Not one part of episode 7's story was left to continue in episode 9, and no interesting story arches of its own to replace it.
Yep, it sets up absolutely nothing for Ep 9. There isn’t even a proper villain left in the story.
The only interesting story arc I heard rumored was that it takes place five years later and Kylo Ren is seen as some sort of peacemaking savior to the general public. The resistance even questions what it's fighting anymore. Now THAT would be a movie worth watching. It'd be nice if there's any truth to that rumor. Probably too good to be true, though.
I fear that's nothing more than another case of "Fans writing a better movie" sadly.
That actually sounds fucking great, but to interesting and original for your typical star wars fandom
@@aozgolo yeah does not sound true at all
When Luke Skywalker tells you to think about the fans and you say “No.”
Mark Hamill is an actor. He didn’t make TLJ. He didn’t make Hope. He didn’t make Empire. He just did what the script told him to do.
You can like/hate the new films as much as you want, but what Mark Hamill thinks should’ve been done is completely irrelevant. You might as well hate Jedi because Harrison Ford thought Han Solo should’ve been dead.
The difference between Mark and Harrison is that Mark was completely invested in his role, while Harrison hated it.
And honestly it has nothing to do with it being Mark. Anyone could have said that. The issue is that Rian admits he prioritized a story over the fans. Not good for the biggest established franchise ever.
Alexander P exactly, even worse when the Story sucks so much and destroys so much like it did in EP8.
Samuel Glyn, perhaps...but it is well known in the original trilogy the actors have some input in their characters and Lucas actually listened . Not so with today’s ego driven overpaid pretenders.
I bet Rian Johnson followed a book called :"How to destroy a 40 years old franchise in two and a half hours for dummies"
TLJ did not "destroy" Star Wars any more than KOTOR 2 did.
he actually read: "how to appear as a edgy director and fail in 10 steps"
@@soarel325 how KOTOR 2 the Sith Lords "destroyed" star wars? it's a pretty great game with a pretty cool story... MUCH more interesting than anything the recent movies came up with...
My point is that the way that TLJ treated the series mythology is no worse than what KOTOR 2 did.
@@soarel325 now, I am not a huge SW fan, but the biggest thing in kotor2 story "contraddicting" the mythos(i think) is the fact the protagonist is some soft of "force black hole" or something. More than disrespectful its something not explored in the original setting.
That said all games have their "freedom":
Dark forces had super stormtroopers
Jedi knight had 7dark jedi and the while valley of the jedi
Jedi knight 2 had 2 new dark jedi and artificial jedi.
Forced unleashed had the strongest forced user in the setting.
"Subvert expectations" is a phrase that means "I ran out of good ideas to extend the story"
@joe bloggs -- sounds like Nihilism.
@@RichardRagan True Nihilism, regardless of the reasoning behind it, is meant to serve a purpose. Rian's so-called "disruption" is really just a euphemism for "incompetence".
@@RichardRagan This. I think Rian is just a nihilist, too. He's jealous of creative people and knows, on some level, that his own abilities are sh*t. So he trashes other people's work in a desperate attempt to make his own stuff look better.
@@KneelB4Bacon Yes. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Good ideas ... over half of his film is practically stealing the ideas from Episode V and VI.
7:46 Wait Lego Star Wars isn't canon anymore? How could they do this to us...
Luke Schoen because Kathleen Kennedy allowed Ryan Johnson, to say this is now my Star Wars. Not our Star Wars.
The core of the crisis is simple: apparently no one is allowed to hate, dislike or much less just criticize Star Wars anymore. The Prequels were utterly torn apart for nearly a decade and yet the world went on. Now not even Mr. Plinkett can release a piece on The Last Jedi without getting a litany of articles from Salon, Vox and other similar websites calling out Mike Stoklasa and RedLetterMedia's apparent rampant sexism and racism (Notice: we're no longer talking about Mr. Plinkett) and how it's all problematic. This plan of defense to defer criticism did not work for Ghostbusters and it's showing to not be working for Star Wars.
I know what that is!!!!
No, you are wrong.
La Blue The movie has mixed reviews, people at Vox might like it and find negative commenters interesting enough to publish a story about.
I personally liked it but when writing a review I also would look at people's criticisms and take those into account when writing. If I think their take comes from subconscious bias I'm not going to pretend that it isn't a thing to protect their feelings.
I never have and never Will shred the prequels, maybe just jar jar. Nah he's annoying but not as bad as C3PO
It’s more of the reasons behind the criticism not the criticism themselves.
Thinking Rey’s power level is a little hard to believe is a standard critique for movies like these.
Saying that her gender is the core issues is not good. And yes people have done that.
I believe that I can speak for many when I say we were all okay with the prequals being crappy in a way.... But when they destroyed the entire cannon that's where we got upset.
Yeah - was sad after reading books for 20 years. Grew up with them and then with the force awakens it felt to me like they give me the finger...
I grew up in the middle of the explosion of classic SW games in the early 2000s. I don't mind if they want to have their own new canon, but freezing the IP so nobody could make EU content anymore was a giant fuck you. I'm almost as insulted by the business side of it. Almost 40 years of untapped content, videogames had finally broke out full force as the 4th big major media player, a money nuke is about to blow in their face as LucasArts is pulling the trigger on a triple A Darth Maul and Boba Fett game... Then everything gets gutted.
@Thomas Crown yeah - nah 😂
What fucking alternate timeline did I walk into where people are defending the prequels? I dunno how old you are but those films were roasted by fans. If social media was a thing back then we would have seen the exact same backlash we are seeing now.
@@dogico he said crappy in a way... I LOVED THE STAR WARS EU (books, comics), what is now star wars legends.
You're the kind of creator that makes me let the video run til its end without skipping the ad part, because you deserve the extra 60 seconds of view time. Discovered this channel today, I am completely enamored. Great work!
The last Jedi was just a bad movie. It shit on a universe that was built up over 7 movies, it was full of plot holes, full of shit that made zero sense, and it didn’t care to explain any of the questions we had from TFA. I have no problem with them moving on but this idea of “killing the past” is bullshit. You shouldn’t kill the past you should move on, evolve, expand the universe and story not just kill it and stop it dead in its tracks which is pretty much what TLJ did.
It was actually built over hundreds of books and stuff too, but yeah.
Knights of the Old Republic 2 already subverted expectations, and it did it 1000x better.
I honestly don't get how people think the message of the movie is that you should kill the past. It is the villain who said that and the hero who rejected that statement. It also did answer at least some of the questions TFA posed, like who Reys parents are. It didn't answer all of them, true, but I consider that to be more of Abrams fault as his philosophy is to come up with a bunch of questions he has no answers to.
Killing the past is one thing, but when you kill it all the way to the previous movie that was supposed to establish a direction for the trilogy you're supposedly making, it becomes a shit show like no other. Now they're supposed to wrap up the trilogy with the next movie except that the story arc hasn't advanced one step. The protagonist is still the same Mary Sue character that could do everything she needed right from the start and the antagonist is still the same bitching wimp that never posed any threat to anyone. Good luck with that.
Right on... I actually think the concept of "killing the past" would have been GREAT for Star Wars. The problem is that this is not what the movie does at all. Killing the past would be dissolving the conflict between empire and rebellion (or uh whatever theyre calling them now) and starting with a fresh idea. This would have taken the form of Rey and Kylo forming an alliance. Instead, the movie shrugs off that idea and just goes back to the same old formula.
What does "Kill the past" even mean? You can pretend the past didn't happen, but unless you kill EVERYONE else who isn't on board with the idea then it's pretty meaningless. Everyone else will still be operating based on what happened before regardless of how you feel about it. Unless you are talking about exterminating all other sentient life and restarting civilization from the stone age it just doesn't make sense.
1:20 Damn. I feel so bad for Mark right here getting interrupted in the middle of his sentence. He's like royalty to most people. He's freaking Luke Skywalker!
Luke Skywalker is fake
Yeah not exactly healthy
I find the conflict kind of interesting and I’m glad tha Johnson managed to pull through with what he wanted for the movie, like Luke’s arc in it
The 9 episode is gonna be pandering AF
Mark could see the direction that was being taken was a betrayal of what the Star Wars that fans love. To Disney and the rest of the new creative team he was a relic to be killed off, he held no value to their money making vision. To the fans though he will always be a big part of what Star Wars is.
Mark Hamill was in a rock and a hard place, a new director- a new vision, basically something he knew would get alot of negative backlash from the fans despite wanting to do the movie "for his fans" I think he basically wanted to get it over with and not look back.
@@Kombatwombat
Man, you people are insane. How many words are you going to put in his mouth to pretend he agrees with all the nonsense criticism that gets thrown around about the film?
My favorite thing is when I am told that I as a consumer am wrong and need to stop complaining.
I think you missunderstood mate. His message is that consumer is always right. If he dont like he will not consume the product anymore.
"The consumer is always right" is a bullshit mentality used by businessmen to drum up sales by treating them as royalty and making sure workers/actual producers bend over backwards to appease them.
The mentality is best seen in "Can I Speak To The Manager" types, because they know the company is more loyal to sales than its workers, and managers more loyal to the company than the workers they're supposed to manage.
Korgull
There is truth to what you say but the problem is LF said the consumer (most of their consumers) is wrong and shamed them in the process.
Korgull "The customer is always right" stems from the dependance of the salesperson on the customer's spending habits. What LucasFilm under Disney did was to depart from that and instead focus on a new group of completely unproven "potential customers" that they had no idea if they had enough purchasing power and the interest to continue consuming Star Wars content in the future. This is what caused them (mostly Rian Johnson and his non-purchasing fans) to be openly hostile towards the existing customer base that has been established roughly fourty years ago and continued to grow/stick around until today through the generations. While new LucasFilm now focused on "new customers", they alienated previously loyal customers through hostility and by offering them products they didn't ask for, which equals business suicide (evading demand instead of meeting demand).
TL;DR the big mistake Kathleen Kenney made is that she completely overestimated the size, purchasing power and longevity of the supposed new customer base, while she completely underestimated the same factors in the established customer base.
You can dislike the "the customer is always right" mentality all you want, it's always the correct mentality, there's nothing you can do about it.
@@lamichka
Tell that to Kathleen Kennedy.
The Wizarding World equivalent to Disney's Star Wars self destruction would be "Harry Potter drunkenly beats his kids so they don't become Voldemort"
Not just that, but they outright contradict previous facts that were laid out explicitly in the movies and supplementary materials just to accommodate for the tastes of the ones currently in charge. In the OT, when Luke was training under Yoda and asked him about the Dark side, Yoda said unambiguously that the Dark side is a quicker and more seductive route to power, a fact that was shown happening in the PT and Clone Wars with Anakin turning to the Dark side as he gave in to anger. Luke did truly become a Jedi by refusing to give in to anger before the eyes of an incredulous Palpatine. What has Rey's path to become a Jedi been so far? All she does in battle is to give in to anger, and her Force knowledge is literally copy/pasted from the mind of a Sith when bridged mentally, which is the easiest path to power ever devised, whereas in an ironic twist of fate, the current Sith (who ultimately was the one who spoke the message of TLJ) is the one who has done actual training and faced difficulties in the path he's decided to walk. Completely subverting and maligning the original message of valuing hard work and persistence over easy self-gratification.
Thank you!
The movie, using dialogue from Luke Skywalker, went out of its way to point out that what Rey was doing was the way of the Dark Side. That’s why it didn’t work out for her. As Kylo Ren was drawn to the light, they even briefly met in the middle before they both got back on track and Rey started defending the Resistance from Kylo’s wrath. The Force is strong with Rey, but she is not a Jedi yet. And if it makes you feel any better, the next movie is getting directed by J. J. Abrams.
Maracunator
Lol what’s even more contradictory to me is it really seems like, JJ Abrams and Disney wanted a female protagonist who for all intents and purposes is not related to a Skywalker or Kenobi or whomever but a girl who is from nothing but rises to greatness. That maybe a fine idea for a character especially since with Luke and all Star Wars copy cats since has features a white male hero who later learns he was destined for greatness.
What Disney and Abrams COMPLETELY forgets about that kind of story telling is the quote “greatness” has to be earned! And not just thrusted upon. Luke had to train and learn how to be a jedi. Rey figures this shit out right off the bat. So if her goal is not to work and overcome her enemies, then what is her goal as a character? The Force Awakens seems to answer,
“To find her purpose.”
Next movie... “you have no purpose!”
What!? Then why do I give a shit about this girl!?!
We still got one movie left in this. Maybe it was a trick with the force involving Kylo Ren manipulating Rey into thinking she comes from nowhere. Perhaps to hide the fact that they are brother and sister just like Luke and Leia!
Maybe Snoke isn’t actually dead?! I mean look at his body with a caved in head and burnt up skin. Perhaps thats his thing, he dies and come back with the force but is left with all the scars on how he previously died all over him.
I would say all this is in the realm of possibility but at the same time it’s not.
Who knows.
But at the same time, it doesn’t feel like anyone working at Disney is sophisticated enough to write the proper lore and storytelling that would allow these connections and questions to be answer coherently and satisfying. I do weep for the future of any franchise in the hands of any faithless cooperation..
I think its completely valid to not like the movies but I do think Rey has an interesting ark.
Her parents leave her when she was a kid, she is alone her whole life and lies to herself she will be seeing her parents back, she only dares to accept that she is not going to see them back when Han Solo proposes to fill that void to be a sort of father figure/mentor to her.
When he dies she immediately turns to Luke Skywalker to be a father figure which turns out to be a dead end when he ultimately rejects her.
But who was there for her in this hard time of need and loneliness, Kylo Ren, who wants to be her surrogate family so they can 'rule the universe together'.
She is so close to giving in to her deepest desire to have a family and not be lonely anymore that she almost chooses to do nothing when the first order is killing the last hope for a free galaxy, the resistance.
Giving in to the dark side isn't only giving in to anger, it is giving in to your own desires regardless of who gets hurt, like killing the Jedi to be together with your wife (like Anakin tried)
But Rey ultimately didn't give into that desire and chose that the fate of the universe was more important than her happiness. I think thats a pretty significant growth in character and a big step towards being a jedi.
Because rey is actually mary sue in disguise...although its not much of a disguise
It wasn't just a bad movie for the fans. It was a bad movie all by itself. It is full of contradictions, logical failures, pointless subplots, and failed jokes. It doesn't just ignore the Star Wars lore. It ignores and breaks the foundational rules of technology and The Force in Star Wars.
Yeah, their midiclorians are out of control.
white Rogue oh the spice 🔥
Yes the last
Jedi is far and away the worst Star Wars film ever made, and quite possibly the worst sequel ever
for one, Leya becoming a jedi was awfully convenient
I completely agree. Most criticism on the new movies goes in deep analysis, but by that they just miss the point.
Changing ownership of the franchise - not a problem.
Subverting expectations - not a problem.
Re-imagining the SW mythos - not a problem.
Reducing the canon - still not a problem.
A movie could be awesome with all above changes. The problem is, that these movies are bad. It's that simple. They fail not as SW movies, but just as enjoyable movies.
It's not just that it's not Lucas making them. It's what a new leader did with Lucas's pre-existing content. Dissing the Jedi, destroying Luke's character, and blowing up the New Republic that Lucas and the fans literally spent 40+ years and 6 films creating. Even if Lucas was still in charge, we'd been pissed. We know this because of the backlash to "Han Shot First" and over-explaining the once mystical force.
So you're close by saying it's because of what new leadership is doing, but wrong in assuming it's because they're new leadership. People were excited about Disney at first. It's that new leadership broke pre-existing canon that took 6 movies and a famous TV show to build. Even Lucas wouldn't have survived killing the New Republic the whole first trilogy led up to creating and then turning Luke into an anti-Jedi hermit with no proper explanation.
@Imp Salazarth only possible reason why luke skywalker has vanished might have worked would be if he had managed to atleast save a few of his students training them
Worst thing you can do with a franchise is destroy their most valuable asset and Luke or Vader is arguably the most known character in movie history
I didn't hear George say anything negative about it. And lets face it you were a kid when you saw the originals. Go back now and watch them. Yeah there good but some of the acting is horrible and directing is bad. There is a reason The empire strikes back is the fav of the 3. A seasoned director which George isn't.
know that the best movie, empire, wasn't directed by Lucas, so just cuz he's gone docent make anything better or worse
The greatest thing Johnson did was taken in part from Lucas's own work in Episode 3. Luke had tried to preserve the Jedi Code and Yoda appeared to have torched it. This is all a continuation of "the Jedi are evil" take. Yoda essentially shows Luke a strict adherence to the text isn't the proper approach either.
PS. I agree the Jedi are evil, but that doesn't make the Sith right. But this can all be determined by the 6 movies.
and a fight between new republic and first order would havee made a wayyy better story thant the goofy space chase we got. my brain can't process such nonsense...
Disney screwed up Star Wars Royally, and its not the actors, or the characters at all, it is the story or lack there of, its screwing with cannon and its losing the hope and fun that was star wars. Clearly Disney and their top brass don't have a freaking clue what made star wars great....
They don't see what made Star Wars great because they don't see it as greatness but as an evil.
All flows from that.
The rich are basically Aliens at this point, not to get political but Biden is taking after Trumps gaffs because he thinks that's why he's popular. The rich are aliens and it is an invasion.
hmmm... Characters are also trash.
They are completely clueless....i love the MCU but Disney has completely fucked up Star Wars...
Mads Mikkelsen why.
Ok next time I'm in Disneyland I will pin 95 reasons why disney star wars sucks on the castle.
the park would care,but i doubt disney would. try finding lucasfilms offices instead. or keep going to the same one.
Sounds like a good start to _The Great Reformation Thereof._
Better yet on the Millennium Falcon at Star Wars Galaxy Edge!
Tell James Mangold "Hacks and corporate boards" are what started this problem in the first place
@Arctic Ruffner Right. Lol no one wants to clean up the mess Rian and Kathy made.
Kek maybe create a original idea. Lazy fucks, rehashing classics while giving fans shit for it.
I don't know if he realises that what he said doesn't work in favour of the current state of Star Wars, but against. His movie, Logan, even though it was bold and unconventional as far as "superhero films" go, it was a gritty and realistic way to send off two characters (Prof. Xavier as well) while at the same time respecting the characters' history. He provided an aspect of their life, from a different point of view. But of the same characters. Xavier was the same, but sick and troubled, his mind had crumbled under its own strength. The Wolverine was the same but now an old man, tired, beat and broken by the many years of fighting and mourning.
That was a different take but on the SAME story. The same people, with the same history. It was a bold movie that every fan loved even though it stripped all the glamour off of a superhero film because the *heroes* were stripped of it. Not because YOU as a director decided they had none to begin with.
I don't think it CAN be fixed, Johnson threw out the plan JJ left for the sequels. And instead chose to destroy any continuity or ability to tell a cohesive story through godawful choices (story, characters and casting).
Respecting the fans isn't really Disney's strong point.
TheRagingwerepanda Neither was Lucas's
@@moriproductions11 examples gino???
@JBAZZI While that is true in terms of the movies, he was really hands off when it came to the expansion of his universe in video games and books. While he maintained authority over it, he really only put his foot down to keep the internal logic of the universe coherent, or at least flowing somewhat logically from book series to book series. The New Jedi Order books don't negate the Rogue Squadron books, and they all had his seal of approval on it. But that's all it really was. He was not intimately involved and only had them looked over to ensure internal consistency. This can be good, as I think some of the best books were in the two series above, but this hands off approach can also allow for things like The Crystal Star which is generally viewed as one of the worse Star Wars books written prior to Disney.
Its not Lucas films strong point, Disney also owns marvel and they've listened to the fans for the last 10 years
Why The Last Jedi sucks;
- Totally different character personalities.
- Dead end plot points from previous film thrown out by bad director.
- Poorly written, or as the bad director would say, 'subverting expectations'.
- As you say, whatever universe the Last Jedi took place in was not in the actual Star Wars universe.
- Introducing characters to fill diversity quotas that take precedent over the story.
- Those new characters are REALLY stupid.
Stop being bias Wisecrack, I love your South park stuff, but I honestly thought more work would have been done by you to understand the HUGE backlash that DID tank Solo. It's not just 'angry fans'.
TLJ have great cinematographic elements.
intempify you’re so edgy
@intempify "If you can't cook a good meal you can't critisize the fact that your burger was missing it's bun."
youtube made a degree in philosophy profitable. think about that.
Hillwood Lam Indeed - peer-to-peer systems are more fragile than top-down power structures, but far, far more positive and far, far more effective, creative and interesting.
thank god - thats education :)
Statistically philosophy majors are the second highest paid majors out of college. The only majors paid higher than philosophy majors are science majors. The reason for this is among other things philosophy teaches critical thinking, reasoning, and creative problem solving. Which are highly valued skills by many employers. Sure you won't make the kind of money a lawyer, doctor, or engineer might make, but you won't be a beggar. The myth of the useless philosophy degree stems from anti-intellectualism and philosophy majors trying to make sure you morons don't flood the market by majoring in philosophy.
@@blixer8384 if that is so, then I'm merely helping by perpetuating the stereotype that is maintained by philosophy majors themselves. No need to be touchy about a joke, especially from someone whom I can only assume is a philosophy major.
The part I hate most about this situation is that some viewers not thinking critically about the Last Jedi and questioning how it fits into the previous and consistent themes of the previous Star Wars movies. They are just accepting it even when it directly contradicts established continuity, thus making messages in the previous movies meaningless. They are blindly watching the films without considering the deeper messages.
But that's the entire point of art. You are not supposed to just absorbs everything without thinking. You are supposed to consider, ponder, and try to assess and reason how the art makes you fell. The story that Star Wars told in Episodes 1-7 was art. It was more than just cool visuals and lightsabers. It said something about the nature of good and evil, family, and destiny. Episode 8 says nothing except that those previous movies were worthless. Why would anyone who actually thinks critically ever accept Episode 8 when it's main message is that the past does not matter?
Most people are some combination of lazy and stupid.
I think you are being too generous calling 7 art. 4-6, yes. Probably 3 too. Maybe 1, maybe 2. But definitely not 7.
Another point of art however is to change and criticize the art that came before, even the art that inspired it. Art is an expression and critique of all that came before and the society that surrounds it. So yes the new trilogy may be "going agaisnt" or criticizing the old movies, but that's because it's time to move on, both within the starwars universe and in ours. The major theme of the new trilogy is "let the past die". Luke even criticizes the "regin of the Jedi" because they controlled the universe and couldn't see the the dark side creeping in. The whole point from day one of starwars was balance. "Balance in the force", the prequels show how when the "good guys" hold all the power, they become the people they were trying to defeat. The OG trilogy showed us that when evil regins supreme, that good, no matter how small will fight and over power. The new trilogy is trying to show us a real balance. This is why our two main characters (Rey and Kylo) struggle so much with being on the sides they are on. Dark and light, they are being drawn to one another because they cannot exist without one another. So yes this new trilogy is going down a different path, but its really a path that has been being set up since the first starwars. Each new trilogy gives us a new theme and new meanings to contemplate. It doesn't render the previous meanings and themes pointless, it now gives us brand new meanings as we look at all the trilogy's as a whole.
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Thanos must be stopped... No matter a cust...
What universe do you live in...where ‘ The Phantom Menace’ and ‘Attack of the Clones’ is considered art? Is ‘the emoji movie’ also a work of art there?
I’ve always been a superficial Star Wars fan, so most of the reasons people hated the movie, as pointed out in this video, doesn’t apply to me. I simply think it was a clunky, badly written and just downright bad movie. Some scenes were great, but they were the exception rather than the norm.
I'm curious how you can label a movie as 'downright bad' while also saying it had great scenes?? I enjoy TLJ on some level but can also see a lot of flaws myself and also understand the one's that essayists have delved into. Some actually make me rethink the quality, other points don't really affect my view of the film even if I acknowledge them. Its fine to dislike something but labelling it as 'objectively bad' or other likewise terms is complete bull. Its not The Room. I don't like the first Thor movie for the way it treats the plot and character. And yet, I don't consider it a bad movie.
@@DeanS946 - some scenes were cinematically epic and the visuals were good, but the plot and character actions/motivations were nonsense
@@DeanS946 Well he never really said that the film was objectively bad. It's just in his eyes it's a shit movie with some cool scenes.(Probably the visuals I'll give it that) However, looking at TLJ and what we universally agree is good storytelling I think it fell pretty short. I think the pacing was Jarring, the character arcs were very shallow and 1 dimensional, (although I kinda liked Kylo Ren's character in the movie despite the 3rd act kinda ruining it) and it's hardly "subversion" when you establish a logic in a story just to later pretend that logic never existed.(I'm speaking about what the TFA set up) Subversion is better handled when taking a common trope and explaining why the trope is ham fisted. Kinda like how Mad Max: Fury Road handles feminism. The movie instead of using feminism as a way to ruggadize women and demonize men for being to masculine like in many depictions of feminism.(Pop Feminism) It showed that both men and women were being oppressed by a greater power. It also showed that it was the overly masculine or feminine approach is what causes these issues in the first place and that a character is better defined by having both masculine and feminine traits. It was not really so much dealing with a patriarchy but dealing with an elitist. There is a lot TLJ can learn from Fury Road. I think if TLJ handle their themes as skillfully as MMFR then it would be a movie worthy of all praise. That's just my two cents though.
@@malikjackson9337 then it can't be labelled shit if it has the caveat of cool scenes. Again, I'm not actually arguing for any of the reasons you like or dislike the movie or aspects of it. I agree with most. I just find someone's analysis completely falls flat if it ends with a blanket statement. Especially ones as benign as 'it was bad' or 'it is shit'. Plenty of TLJ has story and arcs that make sense within the story. Its fine if character motivations rub you the wrong way but that doesn't always equal bad writing. I hated the whole purple hair character plot because it was weir we should care so much when this was her first appearance. However, her actions made sense as a commander and Poe had no right to the information. It didn't fit what we wanted but it was a narrative choice to propel Poe's arc and subsequently Finn and Rose's. The setup wasn't exactly stellar but it wasn't illogical or a 'plot hole'. Now I don't want to get into and discussion of the minutiae of TLJ because I have very little investment. My point is, and I hope it makes sense to you now, is blanket statements help no one and harm your position and are very rarely true. They are the sole reason for the heavy vitriol on most subjects from politics, society all the way down to movies and media.
@@DeanS946 I could argue why I those scenes are god awful but fair enough in regards to the blanket statement bit. However, there is very legitimate criticism on things TLJ falls flat on. It's not just because fans didn't get what we want. Hell I came in there trying to give that movie a chance. TFA had setup some interesting concepts but when the sequel betrayed those concepts is when I had a problem. That's not complaining how I didn't get what want but why the Hell would you hint at somethings importance just to snub it later? I just think why people hate these scenes is fairly justified but you are entitled to your own opinion and I respect that.
Wisecrack:Systems learn
The rise of the skywalker: Not yet
I wish episode 9 would open up with Luke waking up from a nightmare and that TLJ was just a horrible vision of what would've happened
I would laugh so hard if they just continued on from the end of The Force Awakens as if The Last Jedi never even existed.
@Mimi Mae
Your headcanon improves it.
Disregard the film that disregarded the franchise? Sounds good.
@white Rogue: "The only thing i would be sad about, is Darth Maul."
I knew you were going to say Darth Maul. He's my favourite thing from the PT. He's not the ONLY thing that I, myself, would be sad about, but he's definitely the thing I would be the most sad about.
Mostly I just want TLJ stricken from the record. I'm fine with TFA and R1.
Kevin Feige: "All films in the MCU have to be compatible with our overall long term plan."
Kathleen Kennedy: "Is everybody ready? Lets make some money! And let's jam in some weird ideas."
Comparing Star Wars to a religion is apt. I served alongside several people in the military who paid their own money to have custom made dog tags that had "Jedi" listed for religion, and they would even sneak them into their uniforms despite an actual penalty for being caught during an inspection with them. They were willing to risk getting in trouble just so they could have the dog tags they wanted on them in case they were dying that day.
Most of them did it somewhat out of humor, they were atheists who wanted to put something there. But, of all the things they could have picked, they went with that. And, that was way more common than any reference to any other "nerdy" fandom. Star Wars is corporately produced consumer schlock for profit. But to a large population, it's symbolic of something way more meaningful, to the point where people are willing to be perceived as legitimately believing in a movie franchise religiously at the time of their deaths.
That's what Disney bought.
Indeed. Star Wars is a religion, because that is literally what it is made out of. The Light and Dark Sides of the Force are the religious notions of "Good" and "Evil" incarnate, though as a Sith myself, I tend to scoff at those who claim that there is a universal definition for "evil". "Evil" tends to be a shaming word employed by the weak to cow and enslave the strong.
This literally needs more thumbs up. Thank you for this.
I believe Rian Johnson is to blame for The Last Jedi. The Force Awakens, although it was basically the same story as A New Hope, was really not bad at all. It followed similar themes to the originals, fit in with the rest of the star wars movies, and left me with a ton of questions to set up the next movie. When Rian Johnson made TLJ his way, he literally shrugged off every single question I was waiting to be answered and replaced them with no new ones.
After TFA, I would talk with my friends for hours about what we thought would happen. After TLJ, we just complain about how bad it was, there's nothing more for us to talk about.
This is just my number one grievance with the movie.
I also hated how they teased everyones death, had too many plot lines that literally didn't matter, most of the characters got lucky, the plot only existed because of miscommunication, they added in way too many new powers to the force, had useless or unnecessary characters, made up ways to fix the problems they created themselves, didn't follow the previous movies story at all, had no lightsaber battles, and changed the morales of characters that have existed for decades.
After The Force Awakens, I really wanted to see the next one. After The Last Jedi I don't.
Spot on. TLJ does still leave me with many questions.....just no interest in the answers.
Well said, both of you. I mean, it's offensively bad on multiple levels. RJ wants to present it as if he's some type of creative auteur, but he whored out when KK told him to make all the males weak and/or stupid and all the femals admirable. Then he did a terrible job of THAT.
It's also awful on a Sci-Fi level. Magic systems, or systems of future technology depend on their own internal rules to maintain plausibility. RJ obviously doesn't get this. So he has beam weapons arching as if they were tracer bullets, the ships suddenly have to use and obtain fuel, bombs "drop" in zero gravity and, most stupid and egregious: hyper-ramming something will blow it up...which nullifies every space battle in all the other movies. It would appear he gave this ZERO thought, but then, his kind of 'storytelling' is all about subversion, and very little about work, craftsmanship, thought or creativity. Fuck it. Every time I try to add a little "well done" comment to a post it turns into a tirade. I blame Rian Johnson.
I disagree inasmuch as I think TFA is a terrible foundation for the trilogy that constitutes a de facto retcon of the end of ROTJ.
I preach the idea of the Force Awakens being a pretty but somewhat avarage movie which value is mostly determined by how the forshadowing or plot arks play out in the following enteries. Well they fucked it up so bad that the value of FA is pretty much the same as the last jedi in my eyes.
You forgot the biggest question tlj leaves you with "WTF did I just watch?"
At 1:28 Mark Hammil's hand start shaking when the audience miss his point and clap for Ryan Johnson vision.
One of my artsy buddies (a writer) often says "if it doesn't work on the page then it won't work on the stage". This also means that new computer generated special effects will never make up for a weak story. Both the "Star Wars" and "Star Trek" franchises are currently going through this. Remember when each episode of ST:TOS or ST:TNG could tell a fairly complicated sci-fi story in under an hour? Now ST:DISCOVERY requires a whole season to tell us a crappy story (all I remember is "tardigrade"). For comparison, I just bought the Babylon-5 complete box set (39-disks) so my family watches one new episode every night (just started season 3). Note that all episodes are in standard definition and the computer generated effects all hail from the 1990s so do not stand up to the standards of today. On top of all that, Ambassador Kosh's encounter suit is based on a $5 shower curtain. And yet, "story quality" carries the viewer past all those weakness. comment: I have often wondered why WB did not reformatted the Babylon-5 series in a similar way to what we saw happen to ST:TOS. WB could have made a bunch more money airing it daily on their own network; or the SyFy Network in America and Australia; or the SPACE channel in Canada.
"Remember when each episode of ST:TOS or ST:TNG could tell a fairly complicated sci-fi story in under an hour?"
Nope. I do remember when ST:TOS or ST:TNG could tell a fairly basic or even simplistic simplistic sci-fi story in under an hour...
The Last Jedi was basically the anime equivalent of the filler arc that nobody wants with characters and plot elements nobody will care when it’s done
Except that Filler Arcs don't often rewrite the whole canon of the anime, erase plots everyone loved and make way for poorly-written characters to become the protagonists by shitting on the old protagonists.
Seriously, not even Bleach and Naruto did that, and they took a deep dive in quality before the end. Well, maybe Naruto did, because Naruto has always been a wimp, but still.
No. Filler doesnt affect anything. Last Jedi is like a boring Naruto filler that also casually kills Naruto by the end. Its a shitfest that kills the franchise once Luke dies.
It's story was a weird one. I really did feel like a filler episode where nothing happened, but at the same time, it took a steaming shit on everythingy ou liked about it.
@@MrConredsX So... Boruto?
I defend the notion that the fans can determine what is filler and what is not.
Nice, interesting video(I hit the like button), but this is a bit off base, IMHO. You pose two(2) questions here;
1. "Why are fans unhappy with the direction of Disney Star Wars?"
2. "Why Disney Star Wars is in Crisis?"
To more accurately use your Christianity metaphor to answer question #1(Why are fans unhappy with the direction of Disney Star Wars), the Original and Prequel trilogies play out like the the 2 testaments of the Bible. The Light and Dark Sides are good and evil(duh). The Galaxy at large represents humanity.
Old Testament = Prequel Trilogy... Darth Vader = Fallen Angel, Devil... Dark side consumes the galaxy.
New Testament = Original Trilogy... Luke Skywalker = Redeemer, Jesus... Light side saves the galaxy.
George Lucas was more like a pope, and had Arch Bishops(EU creators) to help him spread the word of the Bible(Star Wars). Now there is a new pope, Kathleen Kennedy. She kicked all of the old Arch Bishops out of the church and replaced them with her own. This new pope says that there is now a 3rd testament to the Bible. That alone is not a bad thing, but the problem is that this new testament throws away all the lessons learned in the first 2 testaments. For example, after everything that happened in the New Testament, in this Third Testament Jesus doesn't care to redeem humanity and thinks Christianity should end. This Third Testament says that humanity is dumb for ever believing that Jesus could save us. There is a new redeemer that is not of God, and all you have to do to go to heaven is just really, really want to go. All you have to do to get rid of evil in your life is clap your hands as loud as you can. Pretty much this new testament has no rhyme or reason except to be at the whims of the new pope administration. This is the state of the Disney Star Wars story. Fans are upset not only because this new trilogy is a mess, but they are making a mess of everything that came before. The best example of this is the infamous Holdo Hyperspace Ram. Obviously, it was in the movie because it made for an admittedly spectacular visual. However it breaks the logic of every space battle that has come before it, EVEN the battle from earlier in the very same movie. Why sacrifice 10 bombers with crew, when one hyperspace kamikaze would do the trick? Another example, since when did force sensitivity equal full blown Jedi powers? Why was it good for Holdo to sacrifice herself to save everyone, but not Fin? The list goes on and on.
Now for question #2. Disney Star Wars is in crisis because the new pope(Kathleen Kennedy), and her Arch Bishops(Lucas Film employees) have declared a holy war on anyone that doesn't 100% agree with their new Third Testament(new trilogy). If you speak out about the new direction the church is going, you're a sinner and going to hell. ANYONE that even slightly agrees with the people speaking out, is also a sinner and is going to hell. Now the church is getting heavily involved politics. If you don't agree with the church's politics, guess what... you're a sinner and going to hell! To add more fuel to the fire, those(media) wanting to get in good with the church have been attacking anyone that speaks out against it. So, we have the hardcore Bible thumpers(fans) actively and openly speaking out against what they see as a perversion of the Bible(Star Wars). Even many of the "Sunday Christians"(Casual moviegoers), have become turned off by the whole ordeal and stopped going to church en mass. Thats a lot of people not putting money into the collection plates. There's the real crisis.
I consider myself just a casual Star Wars fan. I loved the movies, but never really dabbled in the extended universe. The Last Jedi was objectively a bad film for reasons that way smarter people than myself have articulated, but that's not what drove people away from the franchise. Hell, 2/3 of the prequel trilogy were bad movies, Star Wars and its fandom were was just fine. There's not one movie franchise that I can think of that hasn't endured a bad film, even Marvel. The damage was done by the way Lucas Film reacted to the criticism. Without going to deep into all the things said by Ryan Johnson, Chuck Wendig, etc, it suffices to say that they showed little to no class or humility when dealing with fan criticisms. To be completely fair, some of the criticisms, and criticizers, were coming from a negative place, but a lot of it, and them, are not. Either way, it was the apparent policy of Lucas Film, its employees, and its supporters, to lump all criticisms together, no matter how obvious or constructive said criticism might be. I can only really speak for myself, but for me, its not about being mad, or not getting the story I wanted. It's about honestly not getting excited for Star Wars anymore. I'm 37 years old. Star wars has been a big deal for literally my entire life. More than anything, its sad to see so many people becoming so disenchanted with Star Wars. All the while, the people making the films telling is that we suck on our way out the door.
MDXVT you, sir (or ma’am), deserve more likes.
A thing that can be added is that part of the goal of the 3rd is to streamline the text so to speak, since the big thing with the 1st and 2cd is that arguably to many word of saint peter and word of Dante in the story, leading to a lot of bloat in the narrative. Or to drop the metaphor here, Lucas basically did very little in regulating what was canon thus leading to things that should not have been considered in the first place, and thus leading to this purge once Disney got control since they take there branding seriously, even if that mean cutting out what was effectively really loved fanfiction.
you've got a couple of straw men in there
Great essay! (Sorry for the length of this comment. :/)
I just want to point out that George actually only gave a stamp of approval on few things Star Wars. The original six movies, of course, as well as The Clone Wars movie and show, were the main things given said stamp.
You see, it was kind of like an upside down pyramid, with things higher on the pyramid having more importance in canon. Basically, things lower on the pyramid weren't exactly TRUE, canon, with them becoming less and less canon the lower on the pyramid they fell. Things with higher priority, A.K.A. things higher on the pyramid, that contradicted things lower on the pyramid, replaced them as canon; especially if it was approved by George himself. Here are the different layers of the pyramid.
G-Canon: "George Canon" (even though George worked on T-Canon); Official George canon; the original six movies
T-Canon: "Television Canon"; A later addition, made specifically for the shows. The only one that came out while this was still in use was The Clone Wars
C-Canon: "Continuity Canon"; tie-in media that fill in the gaps between G-Canon and T-Canon, such as books (including comics), games, and more. This is the pyramid layer where most of the old E.U. stood.
S-Canon: "Secondary Canon"; some, less important pillars of the the old E.U.'s canon, that further supported old Star Wars lore in the eyes of fans.
N-Canon: "Non-Canon"; things that definitely never happened in the canon. This included a lot of speculative content, that diverged from the main timeline. This layer was starting to get close to pure fan-fictions. If you wanted to add another layer, it would BE, fan fictions.
George actually never considered the "Expanded Universe" canon. He didn't create it; the fans did. Its creation was simply approved by Lucasfilm. It was fan-made content, produced at a higher standard of quality, allowed to be made by Lucasfilm, for the fans to enjoy.
Before George decided to sell Lucasfilm, besides the fact that The Clone Wars would've been allowed to finish, carrying it into Q2 of 2016, with its 8th and final Season, he was planning on finishing what he started, and creating the proper to end to his story, with his version of the Sequel Trilogy. The three films would've released in May of 2015, 2018, and 2021. This would've permanently knocked out all of the Expanded Universe post-Episode VI.
But, then he let the hate from the Prequels get to him, and he decided to avoid the hate, despite wanting to finish his story himself, and reluctantly sold the company to Disney, also to let the franchise live on beyond his eventual - and unfortunate - future death.
He gave his treatments for VII, VIII, and IX to Disney, but they scrapped them, in favor of some sort of relay race, apparently thought to be "for the fans". He wanted to be involved with the new movies to an extent, perhaps as a creative consultant - which Disney seemed to be on board with, at first - but Disney soon rejected him. George had made Kathleen Kennedy the new President of Lucasfilm because she was a long successful producer, and because, since they were friends, he thought she would let him help with the new films. But, she casted him off, instead. They also cancelled The Clone Wars, and deemed animation for kids only, and forced Dave Filoni and team to lower their demographics in future shows, as they largely ignored the Prequel Era. Ironically, it was now that fans started realizing their mistake, and began showing love for the Prequels (partially also probably because the fans that grew up with them were now older)!
Basically, no, the old Expanded Universe wasn't really CANON, persay, but in the eyes of a lot of fans, it was. It's a complicated topic. Disney simply decided to centralize canon, and make things simple and straightforward.
Anyways, thanks for reading! :) Unless you just skipped to the bottom, you MONSTER! Just kidding, but anyways, bye! :D
7:05 Star Wars is chained to Lucas balls 😂😂😂
“That’s no moon! Oh, wow, ugh, it’s...”
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed
Before even watching the entire video, I gotta say about 1:30 :
This is just false. Rian Johnson is a prick, and all of his decision to subvert expectations and "kill the past" are driven by a desire to be "unique" and "original". He WANTED to piss of the die hard fans. He lacks respect for the source material.
Look how frustrated Mark Hamil looks when they applaud what he quoted. He knows all too well.
"The source material" = "It's in the Bible". At least make the effort to listen before you comment.
I didn't like TLJ, but they really didn't have an option here. They could keep making original trilogy rehashes like TFA that are objectively inferior to what is already a movie from the 70-80s full of muppets, or they could try to change it up, introduce new heroes and villains to capture younger crowds. This is a studio decision, Rian Johnson is just the guy they hired to excute on what was a plan to try to keep SW relevant. And it worked, Last Jedi made a shitton of money. Maybe the spin-offs were rushed and boring, but they are trying.
There's a reason why people usually don't make Predator Part LVII (oh wait they do!), because you run out of variants of the same premise and it just becomes a slog of fan service (like TFA is). Most franchises that keep trying like Aliens are just plain awful.
They either need to risk more and try to write a better script, or they are basically back to doing reboots.
They could do things differently, but Episode 8 was probably not where to do so. I think RJ would have been fine writing an anthology movie, but episode 8 of 9? Where his story doesn't even properly carry through the ideas of the same trilogy it's in? It doesn't work as well.
Making something new is perfectly legitimate. Making it shit is inexcusable.
@Leonardo Wilhelm. I am sick of these apologetics. There is a good reason why MegaDeox comment has a hundred upvotes and yours only 1. He's right about Rian Johnson pissing on the fans.
This isn't about the series getting old. The fans (the guys) don't like feminist trash spitting on them because they are guys.
And frankly, these fans should show themselves more respect and voice exactly that.
I feel like the Disney era of Star Wars was written by some way off fan fiction blog and funded by millions of dollars.
The things I miss in the new series that was in the originals was ATTACHMENT. Finding out that Luke and Leia were siblings, Darth was their father, having a quirky old puppet teach the protagonist with quotes that can actually apply to real mundane lives.
The fact that the new series barely introduces characters before killing them off, leaves no time to be attached and emotionally invested in those characters. The fact that not many of them are funny and charismatic also makes it hard to bond to anyone in the series. For our family, Rogue 1 killed our interest in seeing the movies in theaters. It probably had the most characters that we got attached to... then killed ALL OF THEM off.
With the new main movies... Rey's origins are disappointing, and they still haven't explained how Kylo Ren can stop lasers mid air. I was very much hoping that Rey might have been a descendant of Obi Wan, and that if she started a family with Kylo/Ben Solo, they would have super babies... meh so much disappointment.
The end of Rogue 1 was predestined to be remember in episode 4 the people who got the death star plans all died watch rogue 1 again only this time focus on the imperial interactions and behavior of Vader
@@christophercombs7561 still, it had the best character build and attachment in the story arc... The other movies lack this in the plot. Whether predestined to have the devastating outcome... The plot before the tragic end was better written. #IamOneWithTheForceAndTheForceIsWithMe
Rogue One was the only new Star Wars movie I actually liked. Yeah it sucked that they all died, but it felt like old time Star Wars with real consequences and in a war, sometimes the good guy dies.
I can see most of your points, except do we really need useless exposition on why kylo can stop lasers? It was just supposed to be a cool moment, it's not some huge plot point.
I actually kinda like how some of those explanations are nothing. Like, in the original trilogy, did we need to know Emperor Palpatine's origins? No, he was just some dude in a chair with a hood and chain lightning. Rey's parents just being no-names helps open the universe up. It means we can have stories in the main Star Wars movies that don't relate to the Skywalkers and that strong Force users can come from anywhere. Hell, don't forget that Anakin was born to a random slave woman on a desert planet. Plus, even if Rey was Obi Wan's kid or something, what would that change?
My only issue with the newest movie is how Rey took the old jedi books. Hopefully she doesn't read them word for word and takes Skywalker's advice that the Jedi were kinda stupid in their over reliance on prophecies and the code.
Rogue One was the last good Star Wars film.
It was the only good one since Revenge of the Sith.
I needed more Donny Yen
It was ok.
Yep
My biggest problems with Star Wars now is there is nothing to talk about.....
Who is Snoke? No one he's dead.
Who are Rey's parents? No one they *are probably* dead drunks?
What was Luke up to? Nothing he was hiding.
Oh my God is Rey going to join with Kylo to merge the light and dark or maybe save Kylo as some sort of light side double agent? Nope it's the same light vs dark thing.
Where did Maz's saber come from? Forgotten.
Knights of Ren? Forgotten.
Phasma and her history? We'll just kill her again.
I have too many questions about Rey! How does she know force powers? How does Rey speak with Chewie *and* BB-8? What about the multiple force visions that Rey had in both movies do they not mean anything.
I'm not even crazy for Star Wars but it's no fun to talk to anyone about. That's my feelings anyways.
No, you're right. TLJ effectively took all the fun outta SW. It took the fun out, curb-stomped it and set it on fire. When asked why he'd do something like that Rian Johnson replied: "Because *fuck you* that's why". At which point he stormed off, kicking a puppy just before walking out of view..
Yes, it's fucking true. I'm not interested about anything that's left in star wars. For comparison let's talk about the ending on infinity war. I'm interested in how they are going to revive the characters, how are they going to deal with thanos and how the world is gonna work with half the population killed. With star wars I have nothing, I don't care about the first order, they have been beaten twice now, I don't care about Kylo vs Rey, he has been beaten twice now. I don't care about snoke because he is dead. There isn't anything interesting for episode IX.
I agree with you. The Last Jedi is probably the last Star Wars movie I will watch because all the plot ends are pretty much resolved. They could blow up the millennium falcon or kill Chewie, it wouldn't really matter since there isn't anywhere for the 3rd or continuing movies to pickup from.
@@Kombatwombat Exactly and it would take another new Star Wars movie to set up questions and a trilogy to answer them. I'm out too!
OMG you're so right. New star wars movies are shit. Rey is the best pilot and the best Jedi ever, how? No reason. New movies just do whatever they want without caring about anything, past or future. They don't resolve anything, there is no character building, and they are just dull. They should discard all and just adapt one of the old comics.
Its simpler than that. the last jedi was seriously stupid. Marry Poppins
"Is he cool?"
I'm Mary Poppins y'all! But seriously how the fuck did she come back from being frozen in space
Ill make this short, should Leia have had ANY force sensitivity at all, it would be all she would need in a literally weightless environment. Now, the inherent dangers of outer space are freezing temperatures and the fact it’s a vacuum. For the vacuum, people can survive without air for somewhere around 3 minutes, which leia did NOT spend in space. Now hypothermia is a different story, but she did recover fairly quickly, but immediately fell into a coma, perhaps from non-lethal but still severe hypothermia
@@steamtasticvagabond474 I honestly can't think of any situation in star wars where force users got sucked into space, passed out, started freezing, and then spontaneously woke up and moved themselves with the force. MAYBE if she had constructed some kind of force barrier before hand she could have held her breathe but she obviously didn't because shes still at the level she was in esb which is just force telepathy/empathy. Even if Luke did train her she'd be about 30 years out of practice. She was a popsicle. If you wanna get really sciency her blood would have boiled from the vacuum and then she'd freeze. Also her lungs would explode. Stop making excuses for shitty writing. We were meant to think she was dead so Ruin Roundhead could have his little Gotcha! moment. She never uses her powers for the rest of the movie and no one even mentions it. No more excuses. It's a shitty star wars movie
@Joshua Stoughton Quick correction my dude. It took a fully focused Luke to move rocks after one or two weeks of training with Yoda. Rey was moving *BOULDERS* in episode 8 after a 2 minute meditation session and 5 minutes of unsupervised random lightsaber swinging.
Other than that, you're on point.
It isn't "Russian bots" "Angry men with tantrums" or any other scapegoat. The new Disney star wars stuff is plain shit.
Yes. I am Russian and I can assure you 90% of Russians hated how Disney ruined Luke and movie in general. 99% of fans. I gave it 1 star not because I am programmed bot or shit like that!
yeah, it is.
And that's your opinion, not fact.
@@JamesLawner no, it's actually objectively correct
Hello angry man throwing a tantrum! How's the weather under your bridge?
The prequels done by Gorge Lucas Episode 1-3 were 100000X better then The last Jedi. Jar Jar included
totally, at least George tried expanding the universe and introducing new concepts. that is something worth the respect of the fans.
Dude you are completely insane. Of course the last Jedi had its major flaws but to honestly genuinely claim it was worse exponentially than those ridiculous fuckin prequels is delusionally nostalgic and I think you’re being way too subjective if it’s tit for tat as films
@@christopherbarber5283 Don't try to argue with a dumb sheep
Absolutely true. There are still some dumb sheep who like to eat pc agenda driven tripe.
Yoshi Prime Rose, Rey and purple hair lady can't hold a candle to Jar Jar! All the new characters are so badly written, it's just not worth watching anymore
DAVE FILONI, YOUR OUR ONLY HOPE!
The Ancient WUN: KEKtic Mystic *You're not your*
He would be better yes, but don't forget he introduced a number of weird and odd things. Sabercopters.
Yeeaaah... looked pretty neat though! WRR WRR WRR WRR
@@ArchAnjell he also gave us weird cool shit like darth maul caming back. it balances out.
No. Please no. Thrawn and fucking space whales sealed his fate. The dumspter fire he made shoild be forgotten.
There's a difference between subverting expectations and betraying the core ideals of a character and rendering them (their behavior at least) unrecognizable to the fans. The idea that Luke created Kylo Ren by coming seriously close to murdering his own nephew and student in his sleep clearly falls into the latter category. Luke was so idealistic and full of hope that he insisted that Vader could be redeemed. Vader. The guy who destroyed entire inhabited worlds without blinking, and who murdered countless of his formerly fellow Jedi..including the little kids who were in training. Even after all of that, Luke never gave up hope, and he successfully helped Vader redeem himself. So, it's hard as hell to believe that this same character would act the way Johnson has him in Last Jedi to begin with, but the problem is horrifically compounded by the fact that Johnson never gives a reason for this extreme shift. He thought he felt a bit of the dark side in the kid? Seriously, that's all it supposedly took? If you're going to try and pull off such a dramatic change of character, there needs to be an ongoing process involved. You need to detail a long string of events that over time sapped Luke's hope and faith in people. You need to get Luke to a place where such a thing is even possible for someone like him. It can still be shocking as hell, but you at least need to be able to look back and see how that might have happened. Johnson, however, spends a seeming eternity on a side plot in which the "heroes" act stupidly and accomplish nothing, while spending not one moment to explain what happened to Luke to get him to the point where he came so close to doing something so against his own nature. Hell, Last Jedi isn't just inconsistent with the two previous core trilogies, it's inconsistent with the prior movie in the current trilogy. Thing is, I'd have had no problem with Johnson if this were his own movie with his own characters within the Star Wars universe. I probably wouldn't have liked the movie, but I wouldn't have had a problem with it. That's not the case with Last Jedi, however. Last Jedi is a continuation of an ongoing series of movies based around certain core themes and values. If you agree to make a movie like that, then there are certain conditions your movie needs to meet. If you're not willing to do that, simply say "I don't think that's for me, but I'd love to play in your universe with my own characters so I can do something new with them. Is that something you'd be interested in?"
Luke even sacrificed his own life in refusing to kill Vader, throwing away his lightsaber (which would have helped him fend off the lightning) Not the type to consider killing his nephew for having bad thoughts.
Luke would hand Ben Solo the light saber, and tell Ben "I will always see the good in you" but that wouldn't fit their poorly thought out story lines.
There's that, but there's also the issue that their movies simply suck. Well, Episode 7 was pretty harmless, rehashing ep 4 while establishing some new characters that worked fairly well - although the constant involvement of the older ones broke the whole thing up a bit much. But Episode 8 was an absolute clusterfuck. There were some good ideas behind it as you explained in your other videos, but they ruined it all by missing the tone and not being consistent with it, leaving a conflicting muddle that is neither fun nor smart nor anything really.
T33K3SS3LCH3N agreed
TFA was terrible even though TLJ was a dumpster fire as well I still found some enjoyment out it.
TFA is only "not that bad" in retrospective. The reality is that it sucked. The most important part is that it "forgot" to explain the rise of the first order and the fall of the republic and trivialized and rendered meaningless the effort of the heroes of the previous movies. Plus had a boring Mary Sue as main character, wasted a huge opportunity with Finn's arc (while destroying the immersion nonetheless) , wasted time with the ridiculous Phasma's arc (that you could remove without changing anything in the movie), killed Han for no reason and without any effect in the story and a long etc.
As you say, both episodes 9 and 8 are bankrupt in the creativity department and when you peek behind the special effects... there is nothing. Literally.
Lost that Shakespearean - greek tragedy feel that inspired the first two trilogys.
Russian bots ate my homework
In Mother Russia, homework eats you
Imma use that one, thanks! 😁
You spelled "Rusian" wrong on your homework; that insult gave me indigestion.
@@scottmialltablet It's spelled Ruusian you fucking imbecile
@@riparoo9675 You are joking right??
One trick to make this clearer is to say "customers" instead of "fans".
As in, "we don't want to cater to our older customers".
As in, business 101: "do not attack your own customers" and "do not attack your existing product".
I do not recognize Disney's canon fork. I do not accept that they can declare previously canon material is no longer canon. It's my money. I was a customer.
Finally, in my opinion, disney attacked the 20% of the customers who were providing 80% of the gross profits in an attempt to expand the market to customers who were providing 20% of the gross profits. That's just bad business.
Mac Mcleod You cant do buissness with people who want to fuck up your product. Even if they pretend to be customers. No store would let you act like the fans behave and still buy their shit. Not a single store. Were talking about being banned from wallmart kinda shit.
Mac Mcleod
What? So harassing two actors off Instagram and Twitter.
And sending death threats is okay because muh “customer”.
I would have reacted the same way. People need to learn that such behavior is not okay. Customers and fans aren’t immune from criticism just because they buy your product.
@@HopelessXzavier the customers were not a problem for 40 years. They lined up and handed over billions of dollars.
The problem is not the customers but the new management. Its the new management that is changing the product from tasty and optimistic that fulfilled customer expectations to bitter and dystopic that subverted customer expectations.
@Say What? I agree, if true, that harassing actors for the roles they portray is wrong. Actors have no control once they sign the contract.
However... Daisy Ridley has since said, it wasn't harassment but sudden fame. And Ms. Tran didn't give a reason why she left. It was asserted that it was harassment but she has pointedly not confirmed or denied that. I.e. it might simply be the NDA for episode 3. Chris Pratt has also been harassed over Star Lord's actions as if Mr. Pratt had any control over them.
In any case, when an employee (who has no responsibility either) deals with an angry customer over a misleading, bad, or broken product.. bad treatment of the employee and even lowest level managers is equally wrong.
But angry customers say angry things over I'll cooked food and broken washing machines to employees and managers all the time.
And you know what employees and managers don't do if they want to keep their jobs and the customers business?
*They don't attack their customers.*
It's the first rule of business:
Do not attack your customers.
Indeed, the customer isn't always right- but even if they're clearly wrong, you don't attack your customers. That has been the reaction of the directors and franchise owners.
People compare TLJ to KOTOR 2.
One's a beloved reconstruction of star wars, the other failed to prove anything.
yeah...KOTOR had a ending that "subverted expectations" seriously there are some legit fair complains about the eu
what does TLJ need to prove though? It doesn't have prove shit. While I'll agree that TLJ wasn't a good movie, the reaction its getting is kinda ridiculous. Y'all need to just get the fuck over it. If you don't like new star wars, don't watch new star wars...focus on the canon you like.
@@roboky101 well the boycotts explain the don't like don't buy statement.
@@barrybend7189 The boycott didnt do anything. Solo's marketing was just bad and also people were kinda not interested in it
True facts. I loved TLJ but Solo was a PASS for me because it was a movie I never wanted and they had no business making. Han Solo isn't supposed to be the focal point of a whole damn story, he is a foil to Luke.
I'm not a star wars fan but let me tell you... It was a bad movie
I thought I was not a SW fan, until I watched TLJ. My hate for this move proved me the contrary.
@G Ren I was going to make an argument about the structural and storytelling flaws of this piece of shit, but then I realised you actually used the phrase "arrogance of commoners" seriously. I honestly didn't realise anyone like you really existed.
@G Ren arrogance of commoners? you must be a big pile of shit congrats.
@G Ren Dear supreme being, I would like to argue that TLJ has many flaws. For example, plotholes. There is also a huge problem with the structure. And I have to mention the obvious issue that is character development which is poorly executed or doesn't exist at all. If you'd be kind enough to listen to a commoner like me I can write you a whole essay on this subject.
If my English doesn't please you, I must mention that it's not my first language.
Dear Angry Crusader, a essay is not enough for the super being called G Ren. A film celestial like him does not want to be told by a commoner what a good movie is. He will not react to your comment, because your English is inappropriate. Sincerely Fabian Stobbe.
I think there is a much simpler explanation, the last Jedi is just a bad movie.
Matt Deyell That doesn't provide any new info. Also, this is an explanation nation on Star Wars crisis itself, not what started it.
incorrect
Very Bad
Correct.
Worst movie actually, you ever notice how marvel builds itself up step by step and tlj just smashed all the stepping stones in front of them and behind them, but hey it subverts your expectations
The Russian bot thing is total BS. The guy found a total of 16 accounts in his tiny study.
And they were probably planted by Disney if the guy himself wasn't lying about it.
ashadowskull I wouldn't go that far, but yeah, this constant choice to blame Russians is starting to get out of hand.
#ambeingnotrussianbot
16 accounts that were merely appear to be being russian trolls.
it's possible. that's a lot of zombies, but either way, i applaud their alleged efforts: a worthy cause. ;)
Disney wiil end up putting the SW franchise in it's film vault and reboot the series in 15-20 years from now....that is what is going to end up happening.
They won't. Star Wars is a cash cow. They'll keep milking it until its boobs fall off.
Star Wars and the DCEU are treating their properties like cash cows. But if you don't look after your cows, and you milk them too hard, their boobs fall off. Everyone knows this.
Look after your cows, and their boobs, or suffer your father's fate, you will.
Muslims are not allowed to watch movies... So 20 years from now that issue will be moot.
lol
Last Jedi made fucking billions
Disney won't shelf Star Wars. They will probably slow down with the spinoffs, but the main series will probably go on forever.
The Last Jedi made $1.333 billion dollars world wide on a production budget of 317 million. While that might sound like a good deal at first since on paper it would be a quadrupling of the investet money its actually not. Because Marketing for Blockbusters like these usually doubles the cost of the movie bringing it up to 634 million, so we have cut down the profit to about 699 million (excluding any other deals actors may have made etc). Now from a purely mathematical standpoint thats still great, but now comes the part where you have to compare some movies. The force awakens made over 2 billion dollars, on a budget 100 million dollars smaller and actually quadrupled the 490 million investment to slightly above 2 billion dollars.
Such a massive dropoff between 2 star wars movies, a massive name that should basically sell itself does not promise anything good. Especially if you factor in a movie like deadpool that almost sevenfolded their investment. Deadpool actually made only slightly less profit than The Last Jedi at 667 million, and thats not even mentioning marvels ever growing box office intakes. And with all the backlash promising future dropoffs because of pissed off fans Disney does not appear to have such a massive cash cow on their hands afterall.
@@Thatslifebro_ That's only box office numbers. Don't forgot the amount of merchandise Disney will be pumping out in other areas, every Disney Store has a Star Wars section with toys, clothes, tableware, etc.
Now that Disney owns Star Wars, and they've proven they don't have a plan and can't follow the canon, I'm pretty much out. l'll continue enjoying the pre-Disney Star Wars universe, but anything post-Disney is dead to me. It's just a hollow shell of what it once was, a pale imitation.
What happened to the bashing of the prequels? And you'll be there to see EP 9 ,who you kidding.
@@thomasvinelli l never bashed the prequels and l have no plans to see episode 9. Might wanna put a little more effort into your arguments next time, instead of spouting random jibberish and burping up talking points you heard somewhere else.
Yep I just consider it all non canon, a messed up alternative universe. To be honest I have not watched the new films and I don’t think I ever will so it’s easier to ignore.
@@tobisan9631 I don't think you're missing much. These review videos are all you need, and they take up a lot less of your time.
The only way they could really fix this is to briefly recap the events of episodes 7 and 8, and reveal that it was all a force vision seen by Luke or something, then go ahead with an actual star wars storyline that isn't shit.
I think this is the reverse of your crisis of faith analogy. Lucas had control over the original material, but he was not only cool with, but encouraged people to add to his work. SW under Lucas was inclusive. Disney brought out the chains. All of the various interpretations fans have had and explored with EU material have been burned. There is but one interpretation of the holy SW, and it's what Disney says it is. Have a problem with it? Tough. Follow the party line or be excommunicated. No discussion, no attempt to understand criticism, just fiat rule.
Don't forget that the PR department for Disney told their other employees that SW Fans favorite activity among things Star Wars is to agrue canon. It's funny, it is almost lieke someone massivley upset canon and then took the study, called it god, and then said everyone is an idiot.
On another note, I find one of the main things of SW is that Disney's employee's, specifically higher up in the food chain among LucasFilms, openly told the fan base to go fuck themselves and expected their movie to be well watched. All the twitter photos of people with anti-fan mugs and other merchandse, as if it was all one big joke to them. You know what people say back to being told to go fuck themselves? "Yeah, fuck you too." The majority of the fan base is currently telling Disney, or more exactly, certain key figures, to go to hell. Doesn't help that figures in EA, the current holder of SW video games,another medium for story telling in SW is also facing similiar crisis. Hell, I feel like the only reason EA got the stuff is becuase someone is best buds behind the scenes with the same group of peopel, and they all decided to run SW their way. Yeah, thewir way or the highway. Highway is looking pretty good right about now... (Head canon and ignoring most of the new content from Disney is my personal saving grace.)
Sigi Stardust And like the Protestants breaking off from the Catholics, the Star Wars community had their own Schism.
Johnathan Goodwin Exactly. For example, one thing that I actually liked about The Force Awakens - showing how powerful Kylo Ren was in the Force by holding a blaster bolt for effectively 15 minutes. An example from the comics - the Darth Vader run, with special mention of Lord Momin (thought that he would just be bland, but quickly became a personal favorite among the Sith echelons). I also liked Rogue One - personal favorite of the Disney Wars.
Everything else just kind of sucks now though. They destroyed Legends just to pilfer from it, and made cheap knockoffs of what they ripped.
agree, that's exactly what i got from all the dissatisfied fans too. they had a (perhaps political) story they wanted to tell and forced star wars into it, rather than taking the universe for what it was and finding stories within.
reminded me a lot of what stone and parker said about why they refused so many south park game ideas, because people came to them with a money-making plan that they'd add south park characters into, rather than presenting a great south park game that they could then figure out how to profit from.
The best option for Episode IX would be for Finn to wake up in a bacta tank and Episode VIII to have all been a bad dream.
Haha I've said the same thing! Like if it was a coma dream it would actually make sense. I mean I don't like force awakens either but at least the franchise was salvageable with that movie. Now it's just done.
Best Idea yet, you don't have to erase the whole movie, I won't even care you were stealing it from Dallas, or any other that did it before Dallas.
Exactly
Or just end the next movie with Jar Jar waking up from a terrible dream - he stumbles into Boss Nass's room - knocks something on his head - and gets banished.
Or the Whills rewind time and eradicate Mary Sue from existence, and a new champion is chosen to bring balance to the force. Bonus points if the new champion beheads Kathleen Kennedy and plays kickball with her severed head.
In all seriousness, what I don't appreciate is that Lucasfilm labels dissenters as "misogynists, sexists, racists, bigots" and whatnot and groups them up with the people who actually have criticisms of the current state of Star Wars. It's as if I or anybody else is not allowed to criticize their content or else they will accuse me of being a racist or something. When I have never, ever criticized art from such a bigoted standpoint.
I can present to you my critical thoughts and support them with evidence. And I won't criticize you if you disagree with me.
We all should be able to share our criticisms without having anyone call us names. I get that Lucasfilm doesn't want to promote the negative reviews on their content. But to label the haters of their content as so many things that they're not is wrong.
Chris Blaze Unfortunately it feels like a lot of people are sabotaging any attempts to have a legitimate discussion over the pros and cons of the new Star Wars lore. I’d love to have a fandom that can come together and be respectful of each other while also being vocal about their concerns, but every comment sections seems to dissolve into harassment and anger whenever somebody disagrees. And unfortunately, this is the one thing you can’t blame Disney for.
These are just pejoratives used in place of what they really want to call us: "Heretics".
Well said, Chris ✨✨✨
There is a lot of overlap in those Venn Diagrams especially when so many of the complaints were about the roles of female characters.
Chris Blaze
1. No one labeled the fandom as misogynistic, sexists, racists or bigots. If they did they were talking about the trolls. You know the ones who were being sexist and harassing Daisy off Instagram. And being racist and bigots towards John Boyega, and who also were harassing and being sexist and racist towards Tram until she got off Instagram as well.
Like can you provide proof? That they said those things.
2. I’m looking through Rian Johnson tweets right now and here they are:
*What we talk about when we talk about manbabies*
*On social media a few unhealthy people can cast a big shadow on the wall, but over the past 4 years I’ve met lots of real fellow SW fans. We like & dislike stuff but we do it with humor, love & respect. We’re the VAST majority, we’re having fun & doing just fine.*
boundingintocomics.com/2018/06/13/rian-johnson-and-john-boyega-attack-star-wars-fans-and-consumers-at-their-own-risk/
So the only ones who should be offended are those who were harassing the actors and actresses. So if you weren’t harassing people then why are you getting offended?
Rian Johnson clearly tweeted and stated again again that they are open to criticisms. But guess what; complaining about SJWs and feminists all day and calling Rey a Mary Sue isn’t criticism.
They are clearly open to criticisms but to act like the harassment that they received online is “criticism”. Is dumb.
Star Wars is dead to me.
it ended with Return Of The Jedi.
Star Wars will be sooooo sad to hear this.
It's not just dead to you. It's dead, plain and simple.
Some people don't have a taste of their own and think they must be safe if they just stick to something that always used to be big, but they are not that many. Most people already left and they are going to follow once they realise that. TLJ is a gaping wound in the body of Star Wars - it's still standing, but only because it didn't have time to bleed out.
With Solo, blood pumped out of that wound but it won't be until Episode 9 that the whole extent of the damage will be visible. I guess it will be a fountain of gore and that'll make it collapse.
Not for me. Because the rest of the franchise still exists. And because one single stupid film isn't gonna destroy the greatest space opera franchise of all time.
lol you guys are so dramatic. Like okay I agree, the last jedi sucks. But c'mon, the entire franchise isn't dead because of 1 (ONE) bad movie
I literally just thought (during the midichlorian count clip)
If midichlorians decide force power... couldn't people just use blood transfusions to steal/gain force power?
We use transfusions today for all sorts of reasons, so couldn't someone like palpatine with all his power and resources have farms of people like Anakin with high counts, just draining them for their power?
I mean, I'm not saying that's what I'd do... but that's totally what I'd do.
danteelite if i could upvote this a hundred times i would. I like the cut of your jib
In old EU, they used blood of Sifo Dyas, during Grievous transformation to cyborg, in hopes he will become force sensitive, but it didn't work. Sorry for my bad grammar.
this had been tried but it was found that in a new body the midiclorians react negatively and essentially die off i believe, which is why you cant really clone a force user successfully. basically the body rejects the midiclorians.
In a single paragraph you've written a much more interesting plot than TLJ. Such an idea could have even brought legitimacy to the idea that 'the Force' is just bacteria.
+Kombat Wombat matter of fact, in the book darth sidious, darth plagieus discovers that EVERYONE has at least SOME midicloroans in thier body and if you remove them then that person dies, essentially stating that midicloroans are like the physical aspect of your soul and the life force of everything.
I will never watch a Star Wars movie as long as RJ is around. Now I know why Mark was hurting so much during interviews. They SPAT on Luke!!
I don't even consider myself a huge Star Wars fan, and I don't know if I'm interested in ever seeing a SW movie in theaters again after TLJ. The Force Awakens wasn't very good either, but MAN TLJ is like one of the more terrible movies I've ever seen in my life...
It really brings it into perspective if you take the time to watch the Mr plinkett review of it. He proposed an alternate direction they could have gone that sounded so much more interesting.
Already guaranteed to make oodles of money no matter what movie they put out, yet they still decided to sheep out on TFA.
The film didn't feel unique or incredible to me. In every other star wars film there were points were I was like 'Whoa!' or just 'weird!' But there was nothing incredible or original in these. Beyond that, Disney made several rookie character mistkaes - not so much with Solo, but with 7 and 8. Kylo Ren is most scary the first time you see him, and then gets progressively lamer. Rey doesn't have any heroic flaws - or at least none hat get in her way. Somehow, the dark side doesn't seem to work the same way. And lightspeed ramming breaks the clone wars.
I'm not a huge Star Wars either, I actually liked TFA well enough. But TLJ is not a good movie. My girlfriend, who's a much bigger fan than I am, I think put it best: TLJ felt like was just desperately telling you it was STAR WARS every so often rather than actually telling a story that matters literally at all. The entire movie was a zero sum, but hey... have you seen the laser swords cause it's STAR WARS!?!?!?! We added a bunch of people who don't add anything to plot or matter in the slightest but did you see our big space ship in the STAR WARS?!?!
I've certainly seen worse movies. I have a burning fucking hatred for Jonah Hex for example. But TLJ? The entire movie frankly would be completely forgotten inside of a year if the name "Star Wars" wasn't on it.
I thought TFA was OK, but TLJ was an absolute pile of garbage.
The thing that seriously sucks is that both of the new movies had some brilliant moments, completely ruined by lazy, corporate think-tank writing. Really, if you cut out about half of TLJ's run time (pointless sub-plots, inexplicable decisions etc.), there actually might be a decent movie in there, aside from Rey being a total Mary Sue of course.
something tells me that disney and the fans parting ways wont go so well for their bottom line...
It's gone poorly for Disney so far - each new Star Wars movie flops even worse than the one before, box office runs are weak, home media sales are awful, toy/merchandise sales are dismal, vendors and retailers are returning unsold (unsellable) inventories while refusing to order any more.
I'm guessing Disney is not as villainous as the fans assert (even though Disney's people have been stupidly dismissive, insulting, hostile, and petulant). But Disney's stuff also isn't good enough to attract much interest from new fans. It's a money hole and they're desperately digging themselves deeper while trying to find a way out.
@@pwnmeisterage Disney: 'Tis merely a fleshwound!
@@NigelNquande *Proceeds to lose all money.*
Except that they aren't parting ways.
I love your argument, but the main issue that's pushing this over the edge (beyond the prequels at least) is that the new directors are actively insulting the fans. Lucus may have expressed his frustrations, but he didn't try to insult us in an attempt to mask his mistakes.
I couldn't agree more.
Badmunky64
Okay....how are they insulting the fans?
SAY WHAT? The directors and other people high in that organization call the fans either basements dwellers, stupid or that they hate women.
dude.... they have ACTUALLY gone on record DIRECTLY insulting fans who didn't like their movies.
Well the fan base has become kinda whiney children.....so....
Its not a good story and the people in charge are insulting people online so yeah of course fans are understandably upset
THANK YOU!
Sounds like you hate women.... also Rian Jonhson did nothing wrong, everyone is a Russian bot.
@@tanimal3964 lol
It's a good but decisive story and the people in charge are responding to grown children verbally attacking people because they don't like what happened to a movie franchise.
For me the issue is that Tlj breaks the lore and old and new characters with little to no explanation. In addition the story didn't move foward and the characters didnt grow. It forcefully unplugged me from the franchise. They cut the value of a 4 billion dollar franchise by disconnecting a significant amount of the fanbase de. I want to love it again. But if feels empty to me.
TY YOU FINALLY SOMEBODY WITH A BRAIN IN HERE.
Sorry mate Star Wars has always been diverse White, Black, Yellow, multi coloured.
Male, female humans and aliens so diversity was never an issue.
My favourite Star Wars Character of all time is Asoka perfect character development and just amazing writing brought her to life.
I absolutely hated TLJ, to the point of where I have decided I’m done with this trilogy I won’t be seeing episode 9 in the cinema or paying a penny to see it.
The issues I had with TLJ had absolutely nothing to do with race or gender.
I absolutely hated TLJ because of the following.
:The most boring chase sequence in cinema history, the most pointless side arc missions ever as they story went no where, the horrific humour forced into the movie, the hard left wing political correctness garbage that’s not needed in Star Wars or any other SCFI movie, the zero character development, the character assassination of Luke Skywalker, a beloved character as Ackbar was to be tossed aside for a purple haired clone of Queen Kennedy, the list goes on and on.
I love strong well writing characters, TFA gave us the start of that and TLJ just smashed it and the fandom to bits.
I have nothing against those who enjoyed this movie, but honestly racist and sexist I am not, Lucas film and tonnes of critics have labels those who didn’t like this diverse breakthrough as Racist, Sexist, White men, manbabies, living in mums basement.
If Lucas film just accepted a lot of people didn’t like the direction TLJ went that would of been that.
But they and certain supporters have attacked us and labelled us all the same as less than 1% of the fandom who are racist and sexist and if you took Star Wars away they would still be racist and sexist.
I seriously hope you and others enjoy episode 9 and that it brings the fandom together but I’m done.
No one will enjoy it. And very few will bother to see it.
I've heard many anti-Disney people bring up the fact that they like Ashoka but I've never heard anyone who is pro-Disney ever acknowledge that
*Claims Star Wars has always been diverse.
*Appeals to aliens 😂
Scott K ...It’s a a space Opera, what did you expect.
Also, she’s brown, so...?
There is no "hard left". At most it's a "moderate right"
a "Crisis" would imply that something can be saved. yes Disney can do a complete 180, restore Legends and call their movies a mistake. who are we kidding... Star Wars is dead and all that is left is a body in a pine box where people can view the corpse for 10 cents a head. George Lucas selling Lucas Films to Disney was his big FU to fans that hated JarJar.
Or he realized he fucked up, made his ip worthless, and decided to make off with a few billion for his troubles.
Eric Martin u say that now but if episode 9 is a major hit or even as successful as TFA, theyre gunna pump out another trilogy.
Tony H - the *ONLY* reason The Farce Awakens was a "success" at the box office is because fans went to go see the first installment of Disney Star Wars, myself included. as far as Episode 9 goes... the same people are in charge at Lucas Films and as the saying goes "You cant fix stupid"
Seriously true. I saw the Darth jar jar theory vid that had him stating that jar jar was his favourite around the time he sold. Episode 2 wouldvé been amazing had he gone through with his vision and not bend to fans.. so sad actually
"Russia" had nothing to do with the movie being total garbage.
Of course, they did!
Don't you know that they put DRUMPF in the White House!?
No but they were retweeting people talking about hating it because it was an issue that Americans seemed passionate about and divided on.
No, just as they had nothing to do with a lot of things that they still fan the flames.. They just want the US to be on the brink of a cultural war, so they are trying to make this debacle fit into the cultural war and make it a left-right thing, when it is not.
the study this "russian bots" theory came from was based on 200 tweets, sent to Rrian Johnson's Twitter from December 2017 to July 2018. I'd say the idea of such a small amount of tweets being responsible for "50% of the Backlash against TLJ" is simply laughable.
And our precious bodily fluids?
I personally see the Star Wars crisis as being a perfect parallel to the in-universe history of the franchise. The period of time when the Original Trilogy came out is like the time of peace between the Ruusan Reformation and The Phantom Menace, in which everything was good and pure, while the Prequel Trilogy is parallel to it's very own Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones in which fans started questioning some of the creative choices, much like how the Jedi Order and the Republic both grew more corrupt and disillusioned and one Jedi (being Anakin Skywalker) began questioning the authority of the Jedi Council, but the Jedi were still there to protect the galaxy, and the time when the Clone Wars series aired is, well, the Clone Wars.
The Disney buyout is, of course, the moment when Palpatine declared himself Emperor and formed the Galactic Empire, and the purging of the Legends canon is Order 66. Suddenly things begin to come in line with each other, with Star Wars Rebels being Star Wars Rebels and Rouge One being the Battle of Scarif. The release of The Last Jedi is pretty much when Alderaan was destroyed and people throughout the galaxy began to question the legitimacy of the Empire and the Rebellion was now in full force. Right now, the very fandom has become the Rebellion, and we're closely approaching our Empire Strikes Back, so things aren't over yet.
You know what they say after all, life imitates art.
Goddamn that is good!
+Masterge77
A very apt comparison.
'The Last Jedi is blasphemy.'
Can't find a real argument against that.
Can you please tell me why everybody HATES it ? I disliked the movie but it seems everybody is overreacting.
And thus did his holiness George lucas the 1st say "Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum Fuck Disney et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen."
If it brings back the SWEU... then call me M. Luther.
"Let DIsney's 'Star Wars' die, kill it if you must"
The movie is bad, and i am not even a SW fan. Is just bad.
ClandestineOstrich Hollywood sucks 95% of the time. If you wanna see a cult film done right check out blade runner 2049. Everything Star Wars should’ve been
Simply put...great and simple way to explain this crisis, intelligently presented. Thanks for such an outstanding job...kudos!
A structured and objective presentation. Not the usual ranting, trollbait, clickbait sort of criticism.
The lesson here is, if you want to continue the ongoing story, respect what has gone before. If you want to branch out in a new direction, start that new direction in a new story. DON'T try to do both at once (i.e. branch out in a new direction right slap-bang in the middle of an ongoing story and ignore all that's gone before) because your audience already knows their lore far better than you and they WILL call you out on it. Yes, Star Wars needs to tell new stories, but it needs to finish the existing ones first - not shout "BORED NOW!" right in the middle of the story and just make up random shit.
This is pretty idiotic. There's no problem with the "legitimacy" of Disney over Star Wars. The problem is quality. There's nothing to do with listening to Lucas, there were tons of people who rightfully pointed out what he did wrong in the prequel trilogy. The removal of most/if not all of the Expanded Universe, and even changing parts of the force, would have been perfectly fine if they didn't just fail at writing.
Even GoT has the same issue. No one gives a shit who writes it, it's just that the TV series has ran its plot head-long into fan service.
*"The removal of most/if not all of the Expanded Universe, and even changing parts of the force, would have been perfectly fine if they didn't just fail at writing."*
This. They replaced the EU with current Hollywood conventions, and those suck.
I think the video is right, and legitimacy is a major factor. If you make a mistake, but have legitimacy, (e.g. Lucas's Jar Jar) people can get past it. But it's the double whammy of making mistakes before your legitimacy is established, (e.g. Rian's Luke) that gets you in real trouble.
Right on the money with Got as well. I have zero interest in watching the last season but feel like I'm in too deep to miss it.
It's been over a year or so and the defenders of the Last Jedi are still holding out hope that The Last Jedi will mature like a fine wine. Guess what, that dead horse is starting to rot away. And people are still making hate videos about that turd of a movie. I don't see that changing any time soon.
It's been over a year and people are still talking about it like it was released yesterday. Get over it and move Jesus you fucking nerds are something else
juan241996, you are talking about a fanbase that kept Star Wars alive for years before the prequels. They are the reason that KK even have a job now. They do not just "get over it". That is Disney's big mistake. They treated the SW franchise like it was a quickie money cashgrab.
@@PungiFungi what about all the other times star wars was treated as such? Didn't see everyone getting their panties all twisted up then.
juan241996 - When did Lucas make a cheap grab that ruined fans love of the story or universe? (Other than continually F'king with Ep 3, 4 and 5)
@@DR-oy4hv many times actually. The fans just didn't decide to get all fussy about it.
Milk your cash cows, don't beat them and just expect milk to come out.
Disney these days like beating cash cows and milking dead horses. For some reason people went to see live action Lion King though so I don't see this getting better in the future. Brand recognition is all that matters when people will consume garbage regardless.
Star Wars episode NEIN
ACHTUNG!
Klug. Sehr schlau!
Die Westfront muss geschützt werden
seit 5:45 wird zurueckgeschossen
@@Elenrai Gesundheit.
I am a Russian BOT!!!!! thanks for representing me!!!
The main problem with the new SW movies is not necessarily change in canon. It is because, with the possible exception of Rogue1, they were poor or mediocre movies. There were a few things that I really liked about the movies, some of which other fans really hate (I actually loved how Snoke was unceremoniously dispatched). But this is all outweighed by the really poor story telling in TLJ. I am not a SW fanatic, but even as a casual consumer, I am not overly enthusiastic by Disney's productions.
One person, I fell sympathy for is Kelly Marie Tran, I did not like her character, but Disney should be blamed for that, not her. The actress was offered a role and did her job. All the hateful abuse she received was shameful and not justified.
With KMT, I wonder how much hate she actually got vs how much of it was the media trying to convince us that was going on.
LucasFilm is openly hostile to the fanbase and are doing a great job at manipulating the media for their own ends. They're literally blaming Russian bots on all the poor user reviews of TLJ.
Lifelong Star Wars fan.
Just watched Avengers Endgame.
Man, Disney Star Wars is terrible.
Total incompetence.
Complete disappointment.
I don't get the point of this comment.
@@switchplayer1016 The point is that he's a paying customer who won't pay anymore.
Endgame will be my last movie that I will be giving money to Di$ney
@@MontChevalier I get that. It's just that the statement itself seems poorly worded.
And Marvel is now freakin owned by Disney. So, What was with Endgame part ?
That clip where he said Rian ignored the fans gave me chills
I disagree. A lot of the hate towards Star Wars came after Last Jedi, the second movie. If there was this crisis due to power change as stated why wasn't the outrage after Force Awakens? Sure, there were the purists that bitched and moaned about Force Awakens but the majority view seemed to be pretty positive, it's only in Last Jedi that masses of angry people came out. I don't think the "crisis" is because new people are in control, again, Force Awakens was received pretty well, but it's because the new people in power desecrated Star Wars in a lot of people's minds with Last Jedi; it's not a new or different interpretation (to use the Catholic Church metaphor) but straight blasphemy. Add to that the response from Disney and the new powers, telling people they were dumb because they didn't "get" the film, or were sexist and misogynist because they didn't like parts or characters. Insulting the fans (people buying your product) is a sign that the product you're selling is shit; when people complained that Rey's parentage and Snoke's origin story lines were just thrown into the Sarlacc Pit after being built up in Force Awakens the new people in power responded with a fuckin' hostile pushback! I'd also add that Star Wars is a religion to a lot of people (literal and figurative) and much like how the Catholic Church abused it's position for material gain which angered the faithful, Disney has no respect for Star Wars and instead *ONLY* views it as a cash cow to be milked-that pissed people off. The "crisis" isn't fan originated in this case, the "crisis" originates from the top-down.
*"If there was this crisis due to power change as stated why wasn't the outrage after Force Awakens?"*
Because people were so hyped-up on the sugar rush of a new installment, that they didn't notice how bad it was. There were a lot of excuses made for the movie's flaws, because the expectation/hope was that the next episode (TLJ) would clear up the ambiguity and justify their faith. Then, when TLJ dropped and those same fans realized just how much they'd been duped by a hype machine, the shit hit the fan HARD.
Ultimately, if all those fans had listened to the 'purists' the first time, they would not have had their illusions shattered so harshly by the middle-finger which was unveiled to them, and the reaction would not have been as intense.
That's pretty much how every legitimation crisis in history works if there is a peaceful transition of power. The population is often hesitant but willing to give the new government a chance. The legitimacy isn't called into question until the new regime seriously deviates from the old in some way.
As long as the new leadership is only doing things that everyone agrees the old leadership would have done, nobody challenges them. It's once they try to make their own mark that causes the crisis.
Add to that, the abomination that is EA's hold on Star Wars games. Lucasfilm and Disney made it happen
there was a crisis over TFA: the "Mary Sue" and the "remake" arguments are an example, but the the hype for having a new movie quickly covered it. Than it risen again with Rogue One, and than again with TLJ. The "Franchise fatigue" quickly build up if you release a new movie each year, and with it criticism become louder and louder.
@Lodatz I guess that's a fair view. For me, i take a lighter approach to Force Awakens because 1) It was part of a trilogy so if stuff isn't explained, there's 2 other movies to do it...sadly the makers churned out a turd with TLJ...but i still maintain that for the first movie in a new trilogy it had potential. 2) Star Wars fans are zealots and Disney was under extraordinary pressure because they had to: a) make a movie that didn't suck [hard for any movie] b) not make a Jar Jar 2 c) connect the new movies to the old ones d) prove themselves as capable as George Lucas.
The first three stories were about Luke becoming a hero, and joining a fight to save the galaxy from evil.
The second three films were about the fall of an old, just world, and the rise of an evil empire, and Anakin's descent into darkness.
The third two films were about a Mary Sue jedi, a Mary Sue General (who kamikaze lightspeeded all the bad guys to death), and how the boys are just kind of there. Oh yeah, and kill all the grandpas.
Wow! This is the most thoughtful analysis of the Star Wars "situation." Thank you!