There is another company in Europe that makes air cups. They recommend to not drive on them aired up because it can damage the seals. They say its only used to clear bumps and what not.
Rick! Yes! Been watching every one of your wrx videos since the first one when I suggested these cups. So pumped the install (and the ride) was so smooth! Keep up the great work on the videos man. They've come a long way
Oh man.. We have a nice one, but it takes so long to get setup, get the shot, and then switch back to a tripod or handheld. I really should use it but my laziness takes over when I'm trying to get the car done LOL. Thanks, Rick
It is bouncy because the cups wants to air up the full 2" when your coilovers "fully compress". Droop the springs an extra inch lower or use helper springs. It will eliminate the bounciness.
Actually it wouldve made more sense to have a specially designed strut simular to a McPherson strut to support the air ride system. If the air cup was dampened by the shocks that are in McPherson type struts, then he wouldnt have this "pogo" problem. If only they made a strut assembly like that, that had air lift integrated into it. The air lift system just being attached to the top hat makes it effectively an undampened spring in the suspension system.
@@dabag3161 Not exactly. Any strut WILL support the air cup system. Reason why it's bouncy is because it's trying to constantly compress the springs using the on/off solenoid valve so you have no preload..like at all. To eliminate this bounciness is to install a cut off, aka a paddle valve (aka manual management paddle) between the cup air hoses and air tank and eliminate the solenoid valve completely so that you can add a small amount of air but enough to lift you at your max height WITHOUT continuously adding air to the springs and compressing the spring too much that an electronic valve would do
I know this from at least Fortune Auto: you are supposed to drive aired out, with the cups fully compressed and *only* air up the cups when you need them for a driveway, trailer, speedbump, etc. My guess is that the pogo effect you mentioned happens because air ride is a compressible bag capable of oscillation since it's designed to replace a spring, but the air piston made from metal has no such ability, *essentially making your spring overly preloaded* and extremely stiff.
Agreed. If they just integrated the air cup into being the actual top hat. Then separate the cup from the coil spring. That would stop the affect on preload. Only then would you truly feel the benefits of having the best of both worlds “at the same time” 🤙
Great demo. I wonder if Fortune Auto's aircups can match up to these or probably better? RallySport D. you should get your hands on some Fortune Auto 500 or 510 coilovers and then do an install and demo video on their aircups too to see the comparisons.
I would think the cups would act like a second damper in series with the first damper once they are fully extended. This could cause them to be under damped in certain conditions. Perhaps you could tune the main damper to work well once the cups are extended, but most likely at the sacrifice of the performance you would see of a non extended cup.
Yeah and it's not recommended to drive with these in the raised position, it's mainly for clearing objects and getting out of tight spots :) Thanks, Rick
👌”Sta. Tic.”👌 I’ve always wanted air, but WOOOOO that’s expensive! Love that intro Rick! I’ll be rocking Fortune Autos on my 02 Subarute Build, hopefully I can afford bags for my WRX after that monsterpiece is done. Loved this video my dude! 🤘but not the kit imho. Not for me lol.
For the rear end “for example” my car, the strut and coil are separate. If ISC made a “strut like” two piece cylinder tube that operated like the air cups and install them down the center of the length of the rear coil spring. I would drain my whole savings account 🤪💳💸
would it be a crazy idea to use the original spring and just lower the perch by the height difference? Losing that much travel on the stroke is just as problematic as having airbags. You're effectively fixing one problem by introducing a different problem. I really wish there was a way to lift the nose without having to use compressors or air tanks. those are deal breakers for me because of all the extra weight
I was thinking the exact same thing and I don't see why it would not work, but I wanted to install these exactly as ISC sent them. The lack of stroke is always a concern for sure. And yeah the tank and pump and everything associated with that sucks for sure :( Thanks, Rick
maybe it's an idea for a future video to see if you would get the same ride quality as coilovers only but using the original spring with a lowered perch. I would like to know since I only lowered my car 1.25 inches so there is more than enough thread to lower the perch IF I ever get sick of destroying splitters on my driveway and buy these cups
You can set the static height of the coilover as high/low as you want, however the air cups themselves are designed to be driven fully decompressed, and are mainly as an aid to get you that little bit of extra height when needed. Hope this helps. Thanks, Rick
It might be possible but ISC designed these to seal up againts the shaft of the damper so I would not be able to guarantee comparability with any other coilover. Thanks, Rick
Fortune Auto has made these for awhile. Pretty sure they were the first to market with this type of deal in the US. They also boast 2" of lift and no change to performance
Great question, but the answer is no. I'm sure it would fit "some" other brand of coils, but you would need to measure carefully(as these seal on the shaft itself) and get the right bearings and hardware, and it still would not be guaranteed to work of course. Thanks, Rick
You bet :) www.rallysportdirect.com/part/coilovers/s011-s-isc-suspension-n1-street-sport-coilovers and www.rallysportdirect.com/part/air-suspension/isc-ac-20mm-8k-isc-suspension-air-piston-cups-w-8k-springs Thanks, Rick
Two things that bothered me about this video. 1 Using a impact on your lock nut looked like a shit ton more then the 30 lbs or so it should be torqued to, and not properly adjusting your preload on the springs. If the ride height is too high at the proper preload, buy a set of coilovers that give you the ride height you want instead of ruining your car and you shiny new suspension parts.
Charli’s Channel he's definitely too short to be sitting that low, he has to try and lift his head or climb up the seat every time when turning or see what's in front. Bet his race car ego won't ever raise the seat.
you have race car ego if you can't see and don't raise the seat, simple as that. I have that ego... not because of height, but because lack of leg space when all the way down (no leg room vs can't reach steering wheel), my hip hurts real bad, but I refuse to raise it.
This is something I think about too. I'm all about simplicity. However with that said, if this system does fail, it will fail at ride height and will be just like a set of normal coilovers, so that's a nice feature :) Thanks, Rick
No one has ever accused me of being too smart.. ;) But seriously though I had to try. I figure let us be the example on video and then people know for sure. Thanks! Rick
Wow you are dangerously short in that seat. Are your eyes higher than the steering wheel? Is that an extra large wheel? Also keep it simple. Scratch the cringe acting.
Towards the end of the video he could I think it was the way he was sitting in the seat once he stop slouching he we able to see clearly over it. Granted he is 5'5 maybe 5'4 and a half
These are definitely not meant to be driven on with it aired up. But I'm in the market for either going with these or the bag over coil systems
There is another company in Europe that makes air cups. They recommend to not drive on them aired up because it can damage the seals. They say its only used to clear bumps and what not.
Yup! Stance part gettin g those on my bc on my lexus IS
Yeah I would imagine it would damage the seals for sure. But you know I have to do it... for science :)
Thanks,
Rick
RallySport Direct All in the name of SCIENCE! Rick the Science Guy!
Rick! Yes! Been watching every one of your wrx videos since the first one when I suggested these cups. So pumped the install (and the ride) was so smooth! Keep up the great work on the videos man. They've come a long way
P.S. a gimbal would make a lot of your moving shots a lot smoother!
Thank for for the suggestion! And I really appreciate the support! :)
Rick
Oh man.. We have a nice one, but it takes so long to get setup, get the shot, and then switch back to a tripod or handheld. I really should use it but my laziness takes over when I'm trying to get the car done LOL.
Thanks,
Rick
It is bouncy because the cups wants to air up the full 2" when your coilovers "fully compress". Droop the springs an extra inch lower or use helper springs. It will eliminate the bounciness.
Actually it wouldve made more sense to have a specially designed strut simular to a McPherson strut to support the air ride system. If the air cup was dampened by the shocks that are in McPherson type struts, then he wouldnt have this "pogo" problem. If only they made a strut assembly like that, that had air lift integrated into it. The air lift system just being attached to the top hat makes it effectively an undampened spring in the suspension system.
@@dabag3161 Not exactly. Any strut WILL support the air cup system. Reason why it's bouncy is because it's trying to constantly compress the springs using the on/off solenoid valve so you have no preload..like at all. To eliminate this bounciness is to install a cut off, aka a paddle valve (aka manual management paddle) between the cup air hoses and air tank and eliminate the solenoid valve completely so that you can add a small amount of air but enough to lift you at your max height WITHOUT continuously adding air to the springs and compressing the spring too much that an electronic valve would do
why does he have the wheel tilted so high? lmao.. he looks like a little kid
That's mean mister! Imma tell my mom on you! ;)
Rick
@@rallysportdirect 🤣🤣🤣
I know this from at least Fortune Auto: you are supposed to drive aired out, with the cups fully compressed and *only* air up the cups when you need them for a driveway, trailer, speedbump, etc.
My guess is that the pogo effect you mentioned happens because air ride is a compressible bag capable of oscillation since it's designed to replace a spring, but the air piston made from metal has no such ability, *essentially making your spring overly preloaded* and extremely stiff.
Agreed. If they just integrated the air cup into being the actual top hat. Then separate the cup from the coil spring. That would stop the affect on preload. Only then would you truly feel the benefits of having the best of both worlds “at the same time” 🤙
The top of the steering wheel is at your eye level!! How on earth do you live like that?
I just memorize the roads and then really it's just all muscle memory ;)
Rick
@@rallysportdirect lul
Great demo. I wonder if Fortune Auto's aircups can match up to these or probably better? RallySport D. you should get your hands on some Fortune Auto 500 or 510 coilovers and then do an install and demo video on their aircups too to see the comparisons.
I would think the cups would act like a second damper in series with the first damper once they are fully extended. This could cause them to be under damped in certain conditions. Perhaps you could tune the main damper to work well once the cups are extended, but most likely at the sacrifice of the performance you would see of a non extended cup.
Yeah and it's not recommended to drive with these in the raised position, it's mainly for clearing objects and getting out of tight spots :)
Thanks,
Rick
👌”Sta. Tic.”👌 I’ve always wanted air, but WOOOOO that’s expensive! Love that intro Rick! I’ll be rocking Fortune Autos on my 02 Subarute Build, hopefully I can afford bags for my WRX after that monsterpiece is done. Loved this video my dude! 🤘but not the kit imho. Not for me lol.
HAHA thank you! I tried to mix it up a bit for this one :)
Rick
Good job !!
Wow I would have guessed it was pretty close to air-ride suspension. It’s great to know it still feels responsive considering the quirky design.
Yeah I was stoked to see it still retained the feeling of a true coilover!
Tanks,
Rick
For the rear end “for example” my car, the strut and coil are separate. If ISC made a “strut like” two piece cylinder tube that operated like the air cups and install them down the center of the length of the rear coil spring. I would drain my whole savings account 🤪💳💸
Doesn't the cup increase the overall length of the coil?
Is this car still kicking around? Very curious how the twin charge set up held up.
would it be a crazy idea to use the original spring and just lower the perch by the height difference? Losing that much travel on the stroke is just as problematic as having airbags. You're effectively fixing one problem by introducing a different problem. I really wish there was a way to lift the nose without having to use compressors or air tanks. those are deal breakers for me because of all the extra weight
I was thinking the exact same thing and I don't see why it would not work, but I wanted to install these exactly as ISC sent them. The lack of stroke is always a concern for sure. And yeah the tank and pump and everything associated with that sucks for sure :(
Thanks,
Rick
maybe it's an idea for a future video to see if you would get the same ride quality as coilovers only but using the original spring with a lowered perch. I would like to know since I only lowered my car 1.25 inches so there is more than enough thread to lower the perch IF I ever get sick of destroying splitters on my driveway and buy these cups
Wow I love them!!! I never thought you could have both?! Great video! Will those cups work on any aftermarket coilovers?
They might, but I assume ISC designed these specifically for their own coilovers as they seal up against the shaft.
Thanks,
Rick
What psi did you run them at in this review?
Is it bad to ride around on these at any height other than slammed?
You can set the static height of the coilover as high/low as you want, however the air cups themselves are designed to be driven fully decompressed, and are mainly as an aid to get you that little bit of extra height when needed.
Hope this helps.
Thanks,
Rick
Would this work on other brand of coil overs? Like BC-Racing?
It might be possible but ISC designed these to seal up againts the shaft of the damper so I would not be able to guarantee comparability with any other coilover.
Thanks,
Rick
Can you still lower the coilovers ?
Fortune Auto has made these for awhile. Pretty sure they were the first to market with this type of deal in the US. They also boast 2" of lift and no change to performance
A year later. But the first brand to offer these in the US was phantom in and around the mid 2000s. Before that kits where coming out of japan.
Perfect review for me ! Was wondering if we can drive air up lol thanks
LOL I guess you *can* but ISC does not recommend it and honestly neither do I. That is, unless you like some pogo action haha.
Thanks,
Rick
RallySport Direct lol yeah I'm not thanks for the review!
How do u see out the windshield
I have a spotter off camera that tells me where to go.
:)
Rick
Only 1” rise? Definitely not worth it. Fortune Auto says 2” for their air piston cups
Could I use cups highest setting as ride height then “air out” when parked?
I would strongly advise against it, the ride becomes bouncy and you could *potentially* damage the air springs.
Thanks,
Rick
flip the switch before anyone sees
Does it fit on every coils ?
Great question, but the answer is no. I'm sure it would fit "some" other brand of coils, but you would need to measure carefully(as these seal on the shaft itself) and get the right bearings and hardware, and it still would not be guaranteed to work of course.
Thanks,
Rick
Will this fit my 2014 Forester XT ( O.o)? Huuumm...
buy an 07 xt instead
You bet :)
www.rallysportdirect.com/part/coilovers/s011-s-isc-suspension-n1-street-sport-coilovers
and
www.rallysportdirect.com/part/air-suspension/isc-ac-20mm-8k-isc-suspension-air-piston-cups-w-8k-springs
Thanks,
Rick
Two things that bothered me about this video. 1 Using a impact on your lock nut looked like a shit ton more then the 30 lbs or so it should be torqued to, and not properly adjusting your preload on the springs. If the ride height is too high at the proper preload, buy a set of coilovers that give you the ride height you want instead of ruining your car and you shiny new suspension parts.
i am sure you flipped the orientation of the bearing !
How tall are you? Those seats make you look tiny.
Charli’s Channel he's definitely too short to be sitting that low, he has to try and lift his head or climb up the seat every time when turning or see what's in front. Bet his race car ego won't ever raise the seat.
5'5 on a good day? LOL.
Rick
No race car ego, but yes. I am too short. ;)
Rick
you have race car ego if you can't see and don't raise the seat, simple as that. I have that ego... not because of height, but because lack of leg space when all the way down (no leg room vs can't reach steering wheel), my hip hurts real bad, but I refuse to raise it.
I came for the car, I left because too much talking. still don't know how well this twin charge works
added complexity on a vital suspensionn component? Nah i'm good. i'll keep my raised king springs.
This is something I think about too. I'm all about simplicity. However with that said, if this system does fail, it will fail at ride height and will be just like a set of normal coilovers, so that's a nice feature :)
Thanks,
Rick
All that work for only 1"....what?
Bro not to be driven !!! Just over a bump BACK DOWN THATS IT
No one has ever accused me of being too smart.. ;) But seriously though I had to try. I figure let us be the example on video and then people know for sure.
Thanks!
Rick
Air can be driven on
You lose a ton of suspension travel, and add preload when lifted.
No
Wow you are dangerously short in that seat. Are your eyes higher than the steering wheel? Is that an extra large wheel? Also keep it simple. Scratch the cringe acting.
Towards the end of the video he could I think it was the way he was sitting in the seat once he stop slouching he we able to see clearly over it. Granted he is 5'5 maybe 5'4 and a half