Every time someone brings up the guard players having to play with their old codex I shed a tear for my fellow Brettonian players whose 2004 army book lasted them a whole decade and into the end of the world.
Yeah i get that. Bretonnia was really something. I am very exited for their return in the old world. As a chaos dwarf player I always dreamed of a proper codex
While true and painful, it is also the odd example of a book that provided a playable army through three editions. Brets might not have been S tier, but they did okay all those years. And yeah, they fully deserve any and all attention they get with TOW.
(Brad) I'm half way through reading them with the patrons right now on discord and I'm EXTREMELY pleased with the new Cabal of Sorcerers. Single handedly saves the faction's hero-hammer/flexible caster identity with the new psychic system.
@@thepoorhammerpodcast As someone profoundly disappointed by the Death Guard previews and who also just read the Thousand Sons one, I cannot say how immensely envious I am. My smelly boys might be going on the shelf this edition unless there's some hidden gem in the full index version or the codex release changes things.
I'm an Imperial Guard player. The lack of time to use my codex while also buying the collector's edition isn't what gets to me as much. It's being told that it's completely obsolete for 10th. I figured it wouldn't have a long life, but for it to not even be valid for the new edition and being told by other players, "Dude, you just got a codex. Stop complaining about it. My faction hasn't had one in years." Is really what irks me most.
The fact the guard got neglected is so lore accurate though, almost as good as when genesteelers had an objective so bad, you could only make it work if you lied to your opponent in real life
GSC was clearly the best codex, as it was on the one hand powerful, but not overpowered, and on the other hand, it was very good internally balanced, though maybe Aberrants were slightly on the weak side.
Of all the armies I play, which is 3-4, GSC was the Codex I enjoyed the most... I just wish it wasn't so convoluted. I'm hoping in 10e they make the army easier to manage.
@@TrippyTheShroomit’s a tough balance to strike as the army is defined by being tricky - but we do want to simplify the game so they have to retain that identity but have less complexity at the same time.
Me (A Black Templar player) curious what you guys thought of their codex and was hoping to get some insight on what works and doesn't. Poorhammer: 19:33💀
The book is like 90% done. It's literally almost finished. So why GW didn't include actual subfaction rules for 9th is beyond me. The contagion system would work fine if it was army wide and not just your warlord trait
I really liked the Codex as well as a Death Guard main. My only gripe was making the specific contagions WLTs. This was a great codex but it wound up just getting power creeped by all the batshit crazy broken codices that launched in 9th. Drukhari and Admech being completely broken for months really overshadowed this book.
I agree. Our friend was the raid boss & basically ran the mini-meta of our playgroup. nobody could ever deal with Mortarion. Maybe my DW Termies could, but -1 dmg, 4+ invul with 5+ fnp & no rerolls against him was brutal. That's before you even get to drones, PBCs, or Deathshroud
As a deathwatch player: this edition was fucking painful. We basically lost special issue ammo, with it being worse, and limited to tactical marine boltguns. All our unit abilities were turned into stratagems(fall back and shoot/charge) or removed (terminators giving fearless, aggressors giving move/advance and shoot without heavy/assault penalty) We lost our +1 to wound stratagems as well, on top of all that. In return, we got access to.... The stuff all other chapters already had. Lost most of our flavor, and the army of renown that was the one thing that gave us a little flavor and competitive viability was PATCHED OUT OF THE GAME AND NOT REPLACED, FOR NO DISCERNABLE REASON. It was hell.
Despite being a tierlist video it was really good to listen to. You explained each point well and stuck to your plan for the most part. Explaining your reasons for not liking the guard codex was a great thing
I was told that feedback is required this week, so I liked the tier list it was fun. I would definitely enjoy more of this as long as you guys have things you feel strongly enough about to rank them.
When we get access to the full indexes we'll certainly be doing videos about them and our opinions on them. The previews should end sometime next week, so I assume indexes will be available in 2-3 weeks. I debated doing a First Impressions episode after these articles all wrap up, but I fear they're going to wrap up and indexes will drop during the week between recording that and posting the edited version, leading us to repeat ourselves immediately.
This was a fun episode to listen to while painting. As a player that hates taking named characters how about which books/factions let you do the best "build a bear" characters with the generic profiles?
Really love that you guys did a tier list not based on power, but based on what these codeces actually are: a variety of interesting and (usually) engaging rule sets for a game that people play overwhelmingly casually. Great video and interesting slant.
While the wait for the 9e CSM dex was long and tough, it's always been incredibly fun to put on the table. Even in the current season where we just dont have enough points to play with, all the units are super fun to push around the table, and army theorycrafting is super fun.
I loved this episode and would love to see more. The thing that makes this tier lost better than others is that you actually explain and give reasons for why put a codex in a tier and not some quick answer. Also your guys thought process is always interesting to hear.
Kudos to the editor, as that soundwork is superb. Also, as someone who's experience with the Warhammer IP is primarily limited to youtube videos, I'll listen to whatever you put out there!
May feel clickbaity to you guys but it’s fun. I like your take on things biases and all - you’re up front about it and have decent reasons. You make Warhammer more accessible being the type of players I’d like to see if I ever played the tabletop and would want to see show up at the FLGS week to week. Share some beers or beverages of choice.
You have no idea how scuffed the original audio we recorded was, I don't know how he salvaged it into something that didn't make ears bleed. Plus side, we just tested our new setups and it's going to be much better next episode.
tier list, random topics, crazy idea, weird lists, i like them all cause i just like listening to you two, either in background during gaming or building/painting or even actively watching the video
This was a great episode, I really liked it. Tierlists are neat, but in general I like hearing yall's opinions on various different things in an episodes (the 3 ways to play is my favorite thing so far, but this was also really fun!)
Honestly. I liked this “Speed Analysis” format you used for the tier list. And then if you guys in another episode went into the deep dive for the faction, I feel would work wonders. A+ on this experiment guys.
Love your guys takes, great vid !! As a blood angels player I really enjoyed having to wait to turn 3. All the lore of battleline blood angels is them fighting the red thirst and having the willpower to keep up codex compliant firing patterns, but each marine (like the player) is fighting the urge to throw down your bolter and and charge headfirst into a bloodbath. My biggest problem with Blood Angels codex was them removing essential abilities (like redeploy jumpacks) and giving them to other factions. And the Other codex divergent chapters like Dark Angels and space wolves got a huge amount of special rules and cool terminators. Dark angels got more special units, more unique loadouts for units, 3 super doctrines, mega awesome characters, a handful of janky strats, and super powerful special rules. Blood angels got gold bois and angry bois and 2 good strats. Why is Mephiston trash in game, but is one of the most powerful psychics in the imperium who can 1v1 a bloodthirster. Why is Dante +1cp and free fight on death when he is the oldest most experienced space marine alive who is the commander of half the imperium
Really liked this episode, tier lists aren't bad by themselves, they are a tool, they serve to organize thoughts and opinions, and you've used that tool in an entertaining way.
I liked the episode. It gave me a nice summary of the things I've noticed, and some insight as to why I react to different armies the way I do. I apprecaite that. Perhaps a tier list in a year or so, after 10th settles out and most of the armies are still using the index? In any case, I like the informative and mildly humorous ways you folks talk about the game. Thanks!
Yeah, fair enough. Your inevitable ragging (every episode) on the just and true Eldar does grate a bit. Yet you were right about our codex, you could even have mentioned the super vague Ynarri rules. No Corsairs! Because no reason, even though it is super lore friendly. Keep up the good work :)
This was a fun episode - I don't want too many tier lists episodes, but sprinkled in here and there is really nice. See you back here in three years for the end of 10th ed codex tierlist!
I'd love to see meme classifications (disappointed not to see a literal "demon codex" tier), but I also understand you have to balance that with your non-eyeball audience.
Yeah the thumbnail was more appropriate placement for the meme names of tiers. I think we could have gotten away with S-Daemon though, one joke tier especially as a final bottom one is easy to get across in audio.
You always talk about your local warhammer group, but I think this is the first I've heard you mention the different armies and such your group plays. I'd love to see an episode where you talk about the players and armies in your group. Maybe what they like to bring, where they all rank on the Spike/Johnny/Timmy spectrum. I'm mainly a Necron player so I kinda live vicariously through the stories of small things in battles to have enjoyment, rather then the you know, winning way, of enjoyment.
As someone very new, who is waiting for 10E to get into the game, I really liked this episode. It was nice to just hear you guys talk about each faction and go over the good and bad of them.
I really liked this video. It was a tierlist video, yes, but the multi-angle criteria on how the "overall vibe of well-written-ness" of the different codices compares makes for a way better video to watch/listen too than the more usual pure powerscale or pure personal preference ranking that comes with tierlists
As a Death Guard player I have to grudgingly agree that all of your criticisms of the codex are spot-on. In all my list brewing I have not found a real use for any subfaction other than Mortarion's Anvil, for the aura of deny re-rolls WT and the strat that lets you heroically intervene with anything. Sadly it looks like the issue might continue or be even worsen in 10th, the new Blightlord Terminator datasheet just looks sad and uninspiring. Having nothing but +1 Toughness over a SM Terminator is insulting for the faction whose entire identity is being slow and unkillable.
@@wolfstormminatures1504 That was kind of my point. +1 Toughness compared to their loyalist counterparts is simply not enough to reinforce that faction identity. I wouldn't care how many points they cost. I'd happily pay 60pts/model for Blightlord Terminators with T6, 4W, 2+/4++ and FNP 5+. I just want my fat men in bulky armor to feel like the lumbering unkillable blobs that the fluff paints them as. It already bothered me enough that between 8th and 9th they lost their resistance to mortal wounds that was partly what drew me to the faction in the first place.
What made the 10th preview more infuriating is that GW plainly knew that being durable was central to Death Guard's identity. They dedicated at least one paragraph to reiterating that fluff. But the material on offer in the preview flatly did not support it. It would be so easy to implement, too. Just slap "Feel No Pain X" on most of the datasheets, and bump up the price per model. They did it for Custodes, yet not Death Guard?
Really enjoyed this video. As someone who's building world eaters as his first army, I appreciate you guys actually talking about them and their problems. I've seen way to many channels that just hand wave away the problems with the codex by saying "it's world eaters, they're supposed to be brain dead simple", which is really frustrating.
I think tier lists are a commonly used format because they work very well. I enjoyed this episode, moving through each faction and talking about the major points without spending too much time on each one.
Definitely roll with the tier lists guys if you are ever stook for content or need an "easy" week. This was a good episode and a broad over view/trip down memory lane can be fun and informative still 👍
I don't know why... But I really like tier lists. I would love for you guys to do more. Side note, Im glad I discovered this podcast. I listen to you at work
I'm new to this channel but i would like to see more ranking videos like this from you guys this was pretty informative to the current state of the tabletop and was presented in a pretty entertaining way just from hearing you guys talk about this so I say more of this for 10th as we go forward from here.
Me, a BT collector/painter (I havent played in like 10 years so im not gonna say im a player lol) 'Yeah thats fair' But overall enjoyed the tier list idea!!!!! Its not like too different from some of your other videos/formats, just a like different delivery system a lil bit?? Just overall like helps us see it all in context against each other rather than just going faction by faction, and then towards the end having like the overall best and worst if that makes sense??? It works lol
I quite enjoyed this episode. It was interesting to hear ya'll breakdown the codexies. I'd love to hear what ya'll will think of 10th editions codexies when they are all out.
I appreciate this content, and enjoy engaging with it. Here's hoping tenth edition marks a move towards a more... brisk codex release schedule. (Note: this is actually possible due to the monetization of codices vs starting faction rules)
loved this. after today's TS reveal i`m soooo salty and i`m glad there is someone who i can share my opinions with... i play GK, TS and tzeentch daemons so that's tripple reason to love your content, guys. keep up good work
Changeups are good for content variety - tier lists are always popular, so this works. Good thing the channel is more than tier lists though, thankfully.
Just to maybe add something to the talk of AdMech complexity, I've had a theory for a loooong time re: complex game rules. Basically, complexity /by itself/ is a negative. No one wants to take more steps to get to the same result. But complexity almost always adds depth, meaning skill expression or choice or just fun stuff to delve into. Depth is good. Depth is basically always good, but it's hard to add without adding complexity. In essence, complexity becomes the price you pay for depth. But X amount of complexity does not always buy you Y amount of depth. If you're good, or just lucky, you can add a lot of depth for very little complexity (leading to an elegant rule). And if you're not as good, you can end up paying a lot of complexity for very little depth (leading to an inelegant one). On top of that, players have different tolerance for complexity and preference for depth. I generally prefer more complex games, so I probably have a higher complexity tolerance and/or more depth preference than a lot of people. But that doesn't mean my complexity tolerance can never be exceeded. And it doesn't mean that I'll enjoy a complex game that isn't that deep. I suspect the problems with AdMech complexity lie somewhere in there.
IMO the Guard Codex should be right in D tier. It cuts a bunch of units, and completely removed the unique regimental doctrines. It killed a lot of flavor for the Guard. It was basically Codex Cadia.
I disagree. I think removing named Regiments as distinct rules was the best thing to happen to the army. You SHOULD just be able to pick rules from a list. That's more healthy long-term for an army. It's why 10th ed seems to be doubling down on it, by making "subfaction" rules be built around playstyles rather than specific in-universe groups (certain specialist Space Marine chapters excepted). The loss of units is a blow, though. They could have continued having Conscripts by just taking the old push-fit Cadian sprue, and sold those in sets of 20 models.
I'd personally love to see a Unit tier list of y'all's factions! Grey Knights/Orks and Thousand Sons/Druki! Since y'all are passionate about them. That would also be fun an relaxing for y'all to talk about and rank them :)
Dark Elves are actually Drukhari, not Druki, in the 40k context. I'm not trying to be an "actually" guy though, but I figured if you cared enough to use their lore name, you'd want to get it right. Have a nice day.
tbh I'm subscribed to you guys for the grounded content, so when I saw a tieirlist vid I clicked extra hard because I knew I wouldn't be disappointed by YOUR opinions on it and yeah, it was good.
I loved hearing y’all talk about how the GK codex was designed against the army ideal, and then the 10th ed GK preview dropped this morning and seemed to fix none of the problems lmao Just started that army for fun psychic stuff, guess I get teleport shenanigans instead
Yeah, we're just teleport marines now that psychic isn't a thing anymore because it's too hard I guess. I bought the boarding patrol and CP of GK looking forward to playing them for 10'th, probably going to focus on Custodes now instead since I have a lot of them from the Christmas box, plus with the forge world announcement they may move over some of their units to plastic. I'll still piece the GK army together, but it's not going to be a priority anymore, even if lore wise they are my favorite faction, gutting of psychic sucked since it was what drew me in.
I liked this content. Kicked back and learned some fun stuff about each faction. One of which is - the only fun thing about playing against 9th edition admech is getting drunk.
I wondered, for a moment, what you'd say about my Iron Hands. Then I remembered. The episode was fun, but yeah probably not for every episode. I would like to hear a breakdown of every index when 10th comes out, either as a tierlist or a .. well, more thorough tierlist!
I personally would put Custodes in 'E' because I can't stand playing against the army. I wish they didn't exist as an army option to begin with. It probably doesn't help that my sole experience against them comprises of playing Necrons and Orks, but when your only strategy is to play Ob Sec and delay before you inevitably get tabled, just so you have a chance to win, gets old *fast*. Trying to play with any other mindset rarely worked out and was heavily punished more often than not.
I would enjoy any style of content that yall do 😂 I'm looking forward to you guys talking about the new edition. Cheers and hopefully the day jobs don't suck too hard!
Feedback: This was great! I know you guys do warhammer, but you could try a mtg card/deck/archetype teir list, and I'd watch the hell outta that. Or you could do a tier list for the 10th edition faction focus once they come out. I'd also love to hear your thoughts in general on the faction focus's.
As a Custodes player, I definitely agree that the codex is excellent. Yes, Emperors Chosen is a little too good relative to other subfactions, but thats ok. Other shield hosts also have their strengths and are used competitively all the time.
So I am not a competitive player, but I collect Tau and Eldar and from what I can tell people were mostly happy with those codexes, with only some balancing messing with internal balance. For Tau, I thought it was one of the only codexes that tried to sensibly give out core. Fire Warriors, Crisis, Stealth, and Broadsides(Though the have had to lose and regain it). I think it actually was a kind of book where you could think about doing weird lists for fun, like a Dalyth Stealth list. Indirect fire was oppressive, however it was for my first time in warhammer seeing the iconic unit, the Crisis Suit, be the center of the army. For Eldar, I follow a youtube channel "Craftworld Eldar" and he has seemingly been really excited for the 9th codex. From what I can tell, the only real losers were Storm Guardians(which are kinda weird in craftworld in general) and Saim Hann as a faction not being as fleshed out as the others. The subfactions in craftworld are very defined however and you can make very thematic lists for each of the, Even though Ynnari is still in limbo, I still continued to see it played by competitive players. I think in this video it just was more a case that both of you are pretty apathetic to Craftworlds, which is no problem but interesting in itself!
That Drukhari managed to just stay winning, despite everything going on, is just a solid flavor win. My horrible knife-eared children just keep on keeping on.
As a long time Dark Eldar player, I agree the codex sort of hit all the check boxes for what I wanted. While it very much over performed, I believe a large portion of that is we had an army that was built for the mission system of 9th. You want to do silly little things with lots of guys, or kill specific things, and be everywhere on the table. It's like the tag line for the army. It's funny how you made the comment about Blood Angels having to play cagey, because I ran into that exact problem when I started playing a straight Wych Cult army, I felt like I spent too much time throttling my army for objectives and powerups.
thank god, you saved me from some listening to some podcast complaining about politics or movies or politics in movies. Truly, you guys are the heros of our time. That time specifically, the next hour or so.
![Jack Harlow - Hello Miss Johnson [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q86_nlRoIGw/mqdefault.jpg)
Every time someone brings up the guard players having to play with their old codex I shed a tear for my fellow Brettonian players whose 2004 army book lasted them a whole decade and into the end of the world.
Yeah i get that. Bretonnia was really something. I am very exited for their return in the old world.
As a chaos dwarf player I always dreamed of a proper codex
For ZE LADY!!!!
If you ever feel bad about your codex just remember fantasy players have it worse. At least you still have your game.
While true and painful, it is also the odd example of a book that provided a playable army through three editions. Brets might not have been S tier, but they did okay all those years.
And yeah, they fully deserve any and all attention they get with TOW.
@@darnokx9277 they were very strong for a time in 6th but then got powercreeped hard
I loved the Thousand sons section given the rules that just dropped for thousand sons within an hour of this video being posted.
I just looked at that!
(Brad) I'm half way through reading them with the patrons right now on discord and I'm EXTREMELY pleased with the new Cabal of Sorcerers. Single handedly saves the faction's hero-hammer/flexible caster identity with the new psychic system.
@@thepoorhammerpodcast yeah I was feeling depressed for my dusty boys until that article dropped and now I’m so happy
It gives me hope for my grey knights, please don’t suck!
@@thepoorhammerpodcast As someone profoundly disappointed by the Death Guard previews and who also just read the Thousand Sons one, I cannot say how immensely envious I am. My smelly boys might be going on the shelf this edition unless there's some hidden gem in the full index version or the codex release changes things.
Guard Dex deserved E tier. Killed the unique subfaction regiments entirely, removed conscripts, removed special weapon squads, removed veteran squads, removed Creed, removed Yarrick etc etc
I'm an Imperial Guard player. The lack of time to use my codex while also buying the collector's edition isn't what gets to me as much. It's being told that it's completely obsolete for 10th. I figured it wouldn't have a long life, but for it to not even be valid for the new edition and being told by other players, "Dude, you just got a codex. Stop complaining about it. My faction hasn't had one in years." Is really what irks me most.
they are right tho
@@SamueL-td7fbthey got years to play with new rules, they are wrong to be the ones to complain.
The fact the guard got neglected is so lore accurate though, almost as good as when genesteelers had an objective so bad, you could only make it work if you lied to your opponent in real life
GSC was clearly the best codex, as it was on the one hand powerful, but not overpowered, and on the other hand, it was very good internally balanced, though maybe Aberrants were slightly on the weak side.
Agreed, I don't recall this codex skewing the meta, making competitive players salty or being FAQed to any great degree.
@@ropable Honestly, these are all great arguments and I'm all for moving GSC up in ranking.
Of all the armies I play, which is 3-4, GSC was the Codex I enjoyed the most... I just wish it wasn't so convoluted. I'm hoping in 10e they make the army easier to manage.
@@TrippyTheShroomit’s a tough balance to strike as the army is defined by being tricky - but we do want to simplify the game so they have to retain that identity but have less complexity at the same time.
As a Templar player I'm lurking and coming when you least expect it.
Abhor the witch, destroy the witch!
Me (A Black Templar player) curious what you guys thought of their codex and was hoping to get some insight on what works and doesn't.
Poorhammer: 19:33💀
I thought this was really curious as well. They should at least say what it is that they don't like so we can laugh at it.
Yeah they did us dirty. Wtf
only the worst SM takes in this podcast, and I'm all for it
they stay mad
@@gridwreckgamer6254 haha it's in keeping with the lore
Idk man as a die hard death guard player I really liked the codex, it didn't take down tourneys but it was fun and shredded in my playgroup
The book is like 90% done. It's literally almost finished. So why GW didn't include actual subfaction rules for 9th is beyond me. The contagion system would work fine if it was army wide and not just your warlord trait
I really liked the Codex as well as a Death Guard main. My only gripe was making the specific contagions WLTs. This was a great codex but it wound up just getting power creeped by all the batshit crazy broken codices that launched in 9th. Drukhari and Admech being completely broken for months really overshadowed this book.
I agree. Our friend was the raid boss & basically ran the mini-meta of our playgroup. nobody could ever deal with Mortarion. Maybe my DW Termies could, but -1 dmg, 4+ invul with 5+ fnp & no rerolls against him was brutal. That's before you even get to drones, PBCs, or Deathshroud
As a deathwatch player: this edition was fucking painful.
We basically lost special issue ammo, with it being worse, and limited to tactical marine boltguns. All our unit abilities were turned into stratagems(fall back and shoot/charge) or removed (terminators giving fearless, aggressors giving move/advance and shoot without heavy/assault penalty)
We lost our +1 to wound stratagems as well, on top of all that.
In return, we got access to.... The stuff all other chapters already had.
Lost most of our flavor, and the army of renown that was the one thing that gave us a little flavor and competitive viability was PATCHED OUT OF THE GAME AND NOT REPLACED, FOR NO DISCERNABLE REASON.
It was hell.
Looking back at this from the future is….certainly something….
Despite being a tierlist video it was really good to listen to. You explained each point well and stuck to your plan for the most part. Explaining your reasons for not liking the guard codex was a great thing
Man i was JUST poking around for this!! Hits the spot every time!
This is my favorite podcast right now, love your audio and video versions!
I was told that feedback is required this week, so I liked the tier list it was fun. I would definitely enjoy more of this as long as you guys have things you feel strongly enough about to rank them.
Loved this episode!!! Could I suggest a 10th edition faction focus predictions/tier list? I would love to hear your opinions on the new rules!
When we get access to the full indexes we'll certainly be doing videos about them and our opinions on them. The previews should end sometime next week, so I assume indexes will be available in 2-3 weeks. I debated doing a First Impressions episode after these articles all wrap up, but I fear they're going to wrap up and indexes will drop during the week between recording that and posting the edited version, leading us to repeat ourselves immediately.
This was a fun episode to listen to while painting. As a player that hates taking named characters how about which books/factions let you do the best "build a bear" characters with the generic profiles?
This idea I love. I'm adding it to the episode idea list right now.
I also like this idea! I always prefer making my own Little Guy rather than just taking a named character any chance I can.
Really love that you guys did a tier list not based on power, but based on what these codeces actually are: a variety of interesting and (usually) engaging rule sets for a game that people play overwhelmingly casually.
Great video and interesting slant.
While the wait for the 9e CSM dex was long and tough, it's always been incredibly fun to put on the table. Even in the current season where we just dont have enough points to play with, all the units are super fun to push around the table, and army theorycrafting is super fun.
Very much enjoyed this tierlist format especially because of the way you guys go very in depth into why things are where they are.
I loved this episode and would love to see more. The thing that makes this tier lost better than others is that you actually explain and give reasons for why put a codex in a tier and not some quick answer. Also your guys thought process is always interesting to hear.
Kudos to the editor, as that soundwork is superb. Also, as someone who's experience with the Warhammer IP is primarily limited to youtube videos, I'll listen to whatever you put out there!
This was great chill video, I'd love to see more like it!
I was thinking something exactly like this, but for 10th edition. Reviewing all the indexes and ranking their rules
When I saw this in my feed I almost sent my mouse flying off my desk trying to click it.
I may have misread the word desk slightly
I love tier lists, and this episode was great! I'd be all for more lists in the future.
I'm good with this sort of thing once in a while. You have a nice, laid back way of reviewing stuff that is pleasant to listen to.
I really enjoy this style as you guys use this format to springboard into a deeper coverage that is very informative 👍
May feel clickbaity to you guys but it’s fun. I like your take on things biases and all - you’re up front about it and have decent reasons. You make Warhammer more accessible being the type of players I’d like to see if I ever played the tabletop and would want to see show up at the FLGS week to week. Share some beers or beverages of choice.
Damn y’all got some editor they be changing shit to pure gold
You have no idea how scuffed the original audio we recorded was, I don't know how he salvaged it into something that didn't make ears bleed. Plus side, we just tested our new setups and it's going to be much better next episode.
Love the content, as always! So when are we going to get a Black Templars deep-dive?
Definitely enjoyed the episode and the tier list format! I'd like to see your tier list for the 10th indexes when they come out!
tier list, random topics, crazy idea, weird lists, i like them all cause i just like listening to you two, either in background during gaming or building/painting or even actively watching the video
Being space marine players yourselves, you guys are surprisingly negative towards other space marine factions you don’t play 😅
Love your podcast ❤️
@@gallopingoctopus1364bro what.
Teir icons and armies are TS and GK, space marines
People that play special marines don't think they are marines, it's wierd.
Its always nice to watch the video after listening to the episode.
This was a great episode, I really liked it. Tierlists are neat, but in general I like hearing yall's opinions on various different things in an episodes (the 3 ways to play is my favorite thing so far, but this was also really fun!)
Honestly. I liked this “Speed Analysis” format you used for the tier list. And then if you guys in another episode went into the deep dive for the faction, I feel would work wonders. A+ on this experiment guys.
Love your guys takes, great vid !!
As a blood angels player I really enjoyed having to wait to turn 3. All the lore of battleline blood angels is them fighting the red thirst and having the willpower to keep up codex compliant firing patterns, but each marine (like the player) is fighting the urge to throw down your bolter and and charge headfirst into a bloodbath.
My biggest problem with Blood Angels codex was them removing essential abilities (like redeploy jumpacks) and giving them to other factions. And the Other codex divergent chapters like Dark Angels and space wolves got a huge amount of special rules and cool terminators. Dark angels got more special units, more unique loadouts for units, 3 super doctrines, mega awesome characters, a handful of janky strats, and super powerful special rules. Blood angels got gold bois and angry bois and 2 good strats.
Why is Mephiston trash in game, but is one of the most powerful psychics in the imperium who can 1v1 a bloodthirster. Why is Dante +1cp and free fight on death when he is the oldest most experienced space marine alive who is the commander of half the imperium
This was a very well put together video, I would love to see more of it.
Really liked this episode, tier lists aren't bad by themselves, they are a tool, they serve to organize thoughts and opinions, and you've used that tool in an entertaining way.
Really liked this video. First time watcher and it came across as both chill and informative
I liked the episode. It gave me a nice summary of the things I've noticed, and some insight as to why I react to different armies the way I do. I apprecaite that. Perhaps a tier list in a year or so, after 10th settles out and most of the armies are still using the index? In any case, I like the informative and mildly humorous ways you folks talk about the game. Thanks!
Yeah, fair enough. Your inevitable ragging (every episode) on the just and true Eldar does grate a bit. Yet you were right about our codex, you could even have mentioned the super vague Ynarri rules. No Corsairs! Because no reason, even though it is super lore friendly. Keep up the good work :)
I like hearing you guys take on anything so to me all the content is great. Keep it coming
I'm late, but loved this video. Very relaxing and nice overview of all of 9th. Would love to see more of this.
This was a fun episode - I don't want too many tier lists episodes, but sprinkled in here and there is really nice. See you back here in three years for the end of 10th ed codex tierlist!
I'd love to see meme classifications (disappointed not to see a literal "demon codex" tier), but I also understand you have to balance that with your non-eyeball audience.
Yeah the thumbnail was more appropriate placement for the meme names of tiers. I think we could have gotten away with S-Daemon though, one joke tier especially as a final bottom one is easy to get across in audio.
You always talk about your local warhammer group, but I think this is the first I've heard you mention the different armies and such your group plays. I'd love to see an episode where you talk about the players and armies in your group. Maybe what they like to bring, where they all rank on the Spike/Johnny/Timmy spectrum.
I'm mainly a Necron player so I kinda live vicariously through the stories of small things in battles to have enjoyment, rather then the you know, winning way, of enjoyment.
As someone very new, who is waiting for 10E to get into the game, I really liked this episode. It was nice to just hear you guys talk about each faction and go over the good and bad of them.
I really liked this video. It was a tierlist video, yes, but the multi-angle criteria on how the "overall vibe of well-written-ness" of the different codices compares makes for a way better video to watch/listen too than the more usual pure powerscale or pure personal preference ranking that comes with tierlists
As a Death Guard player I have to grudgingly agree that all of your criticisms of the codex are spot-on. In all my list brewing I have not found a real use for any subfaction other than Mortarion's Anvil, for the aura of deny re-rolls WT and the strat that lets you heroically intervene with anything. Sadly it looks like the issue might continue or be even worsen in 10th, the new Blightlord Terminator datasheet just looks sad and uninspiring. Having nothing but +1 Toughness over a SM Terminator is insulting for the faction whose entire identity is being slow and unkillable.
not to mention no -1 damage. The dg are gonna be bad in 10th again
Don’t worry blightlords are now M4 so they’re even slower than before
@@wolfstormminatures1504 That was kind of my point. +1 Toughness compared to their loyalist counterparts is simply not enough to reinforce that faction identity. I wouldn't care how many points they cost. I'd happily pay 60pts/model for Blightlord Terminators with T6, 4W, 2+/4++ and FNP 5+. I just want my fat men in bulky armor to feel like the lumbering unkillable blobs that the fluff paints them as. It already bothered me enough that between 8th and 9th they lost their resistance to mortal wounds that was partly what drew me to the faction in the first place.
What made the 10th preview more infuriating is that GW plainly knew that being durable was central to Death Guard's identity. They dedicated at least one paragraph to reiterating that fluff. But the material on offer in the preview flatly did not support it.
It would be so easy to implement, too. Just slap "Feel No Pain X" on most of the datasheets, and bump up the price per model. They did it for Custodes, yet not Death Guard?
@@Bluecho4 I agree, I mean why do knights get it and we don't
Really enjoyed this video. As someone who's building world eaters as his first army, I appreciate you guys actually talking about them and their problems. I've seen way to many channels that just hand wave away the problems with the codex by saying "it's world eaters, they're supposed to be brain dead simple", which is really frustrating.
Love it, just put it on and cooked dinner so all I had to do was listen, keep up the great work guys
I think tier lists are a commonly used format because they work very well. I enjoyed this episode, moving through each faction and talking about the major points without spending too much time on each one.
Always happy to do the pleasantries for you boys.
I loved the codex talk. I’m getting into the hobby so hearing about what all the armies are doing is cool
I have to say, these episodes are all fun to listen to at work, this one in particular
Definitely roll with the tier lists guys if you are ever stook for content or need an "easy" week. This was a good episode and a broad over view/trip down memory lane can be fun and informative still 👍
First full video I've listened through because I'm a sucker for tier lists.
I don't know why... But I really like tier lists. I would love for you guys to do more. Side note, Im glad I discovered this podcast. I listen to you at work
Yeah, Chaos Knights Harbringer table was tiring to keep track off. Index has me hopeful tho!
I'm new to this channel but i would like to see more ranking videos like this from you guys this was pretty informative to the current state of the tabletop and was presented in a pretty entertaining way just from hearing you guys talk about this so I say more of this for 10th as we go forward from here.
Me, a BT collector/painter (I havent played in like 10 years so im not gonna say im a player lol) 'Yeah thats fair'
But overall enjoyed the tier list idea!!!!! Its not like too different from some of your other videos/formats, just a like different delivery system a lil bit?? Just overall like helps us see it all in context against each other rather than just going faction by faction, and then towards the end having like the overall best and worst if that makes sense??? It works lol
I quite enjoyed this episode. It was interesting to hear ya'll breakdown the codexies. I'd love to hear what ya'll will think of 10th editions codexies when they are all out.
I appreciate this content, and enjoy engaging with it. Here's hoping tenth edition marks a move towards a more... brisk codex release schedule. (Note: this is actually possible due to the monetization of codices vs starting faction rules)
Loved the episodes lads! thanks :)
loved this.
after today's TS reveal i`m soooo salty and i`m glad there is someone who i can share my opinions with...
i play GK, TS and tzeentch daemons so that's tripple reason to love your content, guys. keep up good work
Fair and great points. Would love to see a tier list for Editions or Lore books. Could be cool.
Since i don't actively play I do usually enjoy you guys talking about how the armies play as a window into the state of the game currently
Changeups are good for content variety - tier lists are always popular, so this works. Good thing the channel is more than tier lists though, thankfully.
This was a fantastic episode. Also, I’d love to hear the drukhari podcast you’ve threatened
Just to maybe add something to the talk of AdMech complexity, I've had a theory for a loooong time re: complex game rules. Basically, complexity /by itself/ is a negative. No one wants to take more steps to get to the same result. But complexity almost always adds depth, meaning skill expression or choice or just fun stuff to delve into. Depth is good. Depth is basically always good, but it's hard to add without adding complexity. In essence, complexity becomes the price you pay for depth. But X amount of complexity does not always buy you Y amount of depth. If you're good, or just lucky, you can add a lot of depth for very little complexity (leading to an elegant rule). And if you're not as good, you can end up paying a lot of complexity for very little depth (leading to an inelegant one).
On top of that, players have different tolerance for complexity and preference for depth. I generally prefer more complex games, so I probably have a higher complexity tolerance and/or more depth preference than a lot of people. But that doesn't mean my complexity tolerance can never be exceeded. And it doesn't mean that I'll enjoy a complex game that isn't that deep. I suspect the problems with AdMech complexity lie somewhere in there.
IMO the Guard Codex should be right in D tier. It cuts a bunch of units, and completely removed the unique regimental doctrines. It killed a lot of flavor for the Guard. It was basically Codex Cadia.
The fact my catachans cant take plasma guns killed it for me.
Savage
I disagree. I think removing named Regiments as distinct rules was the best thing to happen to the army. You SHOULD just be able to pick rules from a list. That's more healthy long-term for an army. It's why 10th ed seems to be doubling down on it, by making "subfaction" rules be built around playstyles rather than specific in-universe groups (certain specialist Space Marine chapters excepted).
The loss of units is a blow, though. They could have continued having Conscripts by just taking the old push-fit Cadian sprue, and sold those in sets of 20 models.
Love it! As a new player, i love the banter
I'd personally love to see a Unit tier list of y'all's factions! Grey Knights/Orks and Thousand Sons/Druki! Since y'all are passionate about them. That would also be fun an relaxing for y'all to talk about and rank them :)
Dark Elves are actually Drukhari, not Druki, in the 40k context.
I'm not trying to be an "actually" guy though, but I figured if you cared enough to use their lore name, you'd want to get it right.
Have a nice day.
Now this is a good size podcast to wait a week for 🙏
tbh I'm subscribed to you guys for the grounded content, so when I saw a tieirlist vid I clicked extra hard because I knew I wouldn't be disappointed by YOUR opinions on it and yeah, it was good.
I loved hearing y’all talk about how the GK codex was designed against the army ideal, and then the 10th ed GK preview dropped this morning and seemed to fix none of the problems lmao
Just started that army for fun psychic stuff, guess I get teleport shenanigans instead
Yeah, we're just teleport marines now that psychic isn't a thing anymore because it's too hard I guess. I bought the boarding patrol and CP of GK looking forward to playing them for 10'th, probably going to focus on Custodes now instead since I have a lot of them from the Christmas box, plus with the forge world announcement they may move over some of their units to plastic. I'll still piece the GK army together, but it's not going to be a priority anymore, even if lore wise they are my favorite faction, gutting of psychic sucked since it was what drew me in.
Role-playing hate against thousands sons.
Proceeds to fill my bases full of dead thousand sons.
Somehow paints them better than my army.
Also me:huh
I liked the ep. As someone who doesn't know much about tabletop, this was a good listen.
Thank you editors for making Brad not sound like he is being smothered
Quite enjoyed the podcast. Would definitely like to hear more about the Drukari.
The comparison of the necron codex to weekend at Bernie's was hilarious.
I liked this content. Kicked back and learned some fun stuff about each faction. One of which is - the only fun thing about playing against 9th edition admech is getting drunk.
1:24 props if that's really what the raw audio sounded like for this video
I wondered, for a moment, what you'd say about my Iron Hands. Then I remembered.
The episode was fun, but yeah probably not for every episode. I would like to hear a breakdown of every index when 10th comes out, either as a tierlist or a .. well, more thorough tierlist!
I personally would put Custodes in 'E' because I can't stand playing against the army. I wish they didn't exist as an army option to begin with.
It probably doesn't help that my sole experience against them comprises of playing Necrons and Orks, but when your only strategy is to play Ob Sec and delay before you inevitably get tabled, just so you have a chance to win, gets old *fast*. Trying to play with any other mindset rarely worked out and was heavily punished more often than not.
I would enjoy any style of content that yall do 😂 I'm looking forward to you guys talking about the new edition. Cheers and hopefully the day jobs don't suck too hard!
"Complexity through tons of tiny insignificant interactions"
Seems on brand for the adeptus mechanicus
Feedback: This was great! I know you guys do warhammer, but you could try a mtg card/deck/archetype teir list, and I'd watch the hell outta that. Or you could do a tier list for the 10th edition faction focus once they come out. I'd also love to hear your thoughts in general on the faction focus's.
I like the occasional laid-back video for laid back watching.
it's not what I want all the time, but sometimes it's the only thing I want.
As a Custodes player, I definitely agree that the codex is excellent. Yes, Emperors Chosen is a little too good relative to other subfactions, but thats ok. Other shield hosts also have their strengths and are used competitively all the time.
Thank the editors!
Fun videos. I like the concept but only insofar as we dont lose the more meaty and in depth episode. Also book review when :p ?
So I am not a competitive player, but I collect Tau and Eldar and from what I can tell people were mostly happy with those codexes, with only some balancing messing with internal balance.
For Tau, I thought it was one of the only codexes that tried to sensibly give out core. Fire Warriors, Crisis, Stealth, and Broadsides(Though the have had to lose and regain it). I think it actually was a kind of book where you could think about doing weird lists for fun, like a Dalyth Stealth list. Indirect fire was oppressive, however it was for my first time in warhammer seeing the iconic unit, the Crisis Suit, be the center of the army.
For Eldar, I follow a youtube channel "Craftworld Eldar" and he has seemingly been really excited for the 9th codex. From what I can tell, the only real losers were Storm Guardians(which are kinda weird in craftworld in general) and Saim Hann as a faction not being as fleshed out as the others. The subfactions in craftworld are very defined however and you can make very thematic lists for each of the, Even though Ynnari is still in limbo, I still continued to see it played by competitive players. I think in this video it just was more a case that both of you are pretty apathetic to Craftworlds, which is no problem but interesting in itself!
That Drukhari managed to just stay winning, despite everything going on, is just a solid flavor win. My horrible knife-eared children just keep on keeping on.
My Knight Despoiler has never caused a Dread Test one time in its entire life.
It's also only ever been played, souped into my CSM army.
As a long time Dark Eldar player, I agree the codex sort of hit all the check boxes for what I wanted. While it very much over performed, I believe a large portion of that is we had an army that was built for the mission system of 9th. You want to do silly little things with lots of guys, or kill specific things, and be everywhere on the table. It's like the tag line for the army.
It's funny how you made the comment about Blood Angels having to play cagey, because I ran into that exact problem when I started playing a straight Wych Cult army, I felt like I spent too much time throttling my army for objectives and powerups.
ad mech is what happens when someone has rhystic study and smothering tithe and no one ever pays the 1 or 2
thank god, you saved me from some listening to some podcast complaining about politics or movies or politics in movies.
Truly, you guys are the heros of our time. That time specifically, the next hour or so.
This was great. You should do every factions terminator equivalent.