Tesla and EVs Have a HUGE Problem.
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- Опубликовано: 5 апр 2024
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I worked at Tesla starting in July of 2017 as an Operations Analyst out of the Bethlehem, PA distribution center facility and left as a Program Manager based out of Austin, TX as of September 2021. I spent most of my time in the distribution and supply chain organizations.
Before Tesla, I was a Director of Business Intelligence and Pricing at the largest Pet Food & Supply distributor in the US, Phillips Pet Food & Supplies based out of Easton, PA. My wife and I also owned a small business in Bethlehem, PA between 2016 and 2019.
I have been a shareholder of Tesla since 2012 and currently own Tesla stock. Nothing I say constitutes as investment or financial advice.
My thoughts are my own and are not representative of everyone who currently works, or has worked at Tesla.
If you like this content I would greatly appreciate your likes and shares!
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I am a Tesla employee and Brandon makes a good point. Charging in the US is behind Europe and China, but catching up. I’d never rent a ICE vehicle in Europe ever again. I did a 10 day work trip last fall and drove across The Netherlands, Belgium and Germany in a Tesla Model 3. Every hotel and restaurant I stopped at had charging, I traveled well over 2500 kms and only stopped at one public charger. People in the US simply don’t get it yet, because they haven’t experienced it.
Not true. I live in the US but am German, with a business in Spain and spend considerable time in Europe with plenty friends on both sides of the pond. Charging in the US is easy. Spain, for example ia far, and I mean FAR behind the US in charging (well, kinda everything). Just last week there were headlines in Spain and other parts of Europe with over 2 houra of waiting at suoerchargera. Just look at the map! There are far more superchargers in the US than in Europe. Sure, maybe in Norway you have more density, but in general the consensus from what I see and all my friends from both sides if the pond is unanimous.
Biden got millions to add charging stations and last I heard he added 6, six, stations.
@@BasementTracks yes, but every public charger is on the same standard. Just bring the cord and plug in. No guess work like the US with NACS, CCS and ChadMo.
The NA charging standard was just agreed to last year. Also, Spain has plenty of level 2 charging at hotels and restaurants.
@@mt2nv1 we also don't need as many superchargers across Europe despite having a larger population. Because we have things called railways and a surprising number of people use them. That really is not a thing in the US. The US has 908 cars per person and the EU has about 560. That's not because we're all poor, it's because so many people laugh at the very notion of bothering owning one already. Why would you in 80% of London streets when the Tube and buses are cheaper and just as easy or most likely, vastly easier, than sitting in a car?
However, you're both trying to argue over a largely pointless hair splitting exercise - chargers are being deployed rapidly everywhere, you'd have to be somewhere remote to not have them and even that's unlikely because the remote places we visit are all things like national parks with car parks where they're putting in chargers. Almost everyone on the planet lives in a city, and while we definitely need charging in more parking spots in most countries, it is coming along very well. Could it be better? Sure, but there's a point where we'd be deploying it too fast for the number of vehicles getting built too.
By the time the long term ICE holdouts see the writing on the wall, there'll be so many chargers there won't be a problem for them to worry about.
Oh and those two hour supercharger queue stories are absolute nonsense since that's not how it works. They had that in Chicago and it was all made up rubbish from the press (as if in major blackouts petrol pumps mysteriously have a hand operated pump handle anyway).
@@BasementTracks The Netherlands are also great. I live in Amsterdam there are 12+ chargers around my block within 100 yards.
I ran to an 80-year-old couple at Aldi's driving a model y they said if it wasn't for this vehicle they wouldn't be mobile they said it's the easiest car to drive and it helps them feel safe not for just them but for others and they said it was the easiest car to get in and out of I thought that was pretty cool
And if you add in what FSD is bringing us, self-driving cars will allow many of us to stay independent and in our own homes for several extra years.
FSD Version 12 looks incredible.
Yeah, baby boomers can help revive US economy one more time.
I'm a Tesla fan as well, but pretending you couldnt be mobile with so many other cars out there seems a bit dishonest. Teslas are very comfortable, especially the MY. That being said any other EV wouldnt work for them likely given how you seemingly have to be a bodybuilder to get some of those charging cables plugges into your car at non Tesla chargers lol. Cant wait for NACS to be everywhere
@@LunnarisLP Yes, you say it, other EVs are currently not a option in the US. In Europe they work just fine but still the Model Y stays the easiest simplest vehicle with the least learning curve - As long as you are not afraid of having no Speedometer before your nose. And we do not even get FSD for the foreseeable future.
@@bobwallace9753 fsd version 12 is worse than a 16 year old new driver. its bad.
Brandon, please have Farzad on your channel for a discussion on EV's to educate your followers. Better yet have Farzad take you for a ride and show your followers how it works and charges.
He doesn't get views when talking EVs.
Brandon has already done a video driving a Model 3
Interesting to hear the American view. As a European most of those charging issues have been solved here with street charging everywhere. In the Netherlands we now crossed 30% of new sales to be full EV and Norway is already past 80%. The discussion is not will i Buy a EV in the future but why would you still buy a ICE car.
I liked crossing the border into Enschede cause there I only payed 27 cents per Kilowatt currently. :D
Europe is more than Netherlands. As I replied to another comment, huge parts of Europe are far behind the US in charging, and let's not forget the obvious, which is that the US is far larger.
In two years the US will be up to 20-25% IMO.
@@BasementTracks all true except for the fact that Europe is larger than the USA, and has a substantially larger population. But aside from those two things, you're correct. Makes no difference though because all human beings live in settlements, and even though the US calls practically every village a 'city' the fact is, it's not hard to install chargers. Everywhere will catch up eventually and you can see what it will look like by examining Norway.
Much respect to Brandon for having this conversation. I've watched some of his videos to keep my ear to what the general automotive consumer is thinking, feeling, etc. EV or otherwise. Hats off to you Brandon and Farzad for this. We need more of this to bridge the gap.
Bro makes a good point about less affluent ppl that dont have home charging option being less likely to buy an EV
Viewers have to realize that Brandon is not anti EV or anti Tesla. He's providing an objective and realistic overview of the car market.
Even if all the math makes sense and EVs are clearly the better opinion (I believe in EVs), consumers will not be rational in most cases. Many consumers are being influenced away from EVs. Many are ignorant to EV benefits because of several reasons.
Brandon is providing the EV proponents the key points of a transition change plan for the consumer. Address the concerns he sees and hears and EV adoption gets greatly expedited.
EggZactly
I drive a Chevy Bolt in rural Tennessee My neighbor didn't realize how far they have come till I started giving him a ride to work I totally changed his mind butts and seats flip the script every time😅
Chevy bolt cmon man
Tennessee now I understand
I see people charging their Tesla’s with an ordinary outlet. Takes longer but the car’s just sitting there anyway.
That’s what I do at home, max I’ll deplete is 20 - 25% in a normal day and the 120V is sufficient to bring it back to 100% over night.
I have a plaid S and my wife an M3 and we both charge with a normal outlet. Forgot last time I went to a supercharger. Maybe last winter.
I charge my Model X Plaid via a standard outlet in our garage. Our daily driving is less than 50 miles and it's easy to top up 50 miles of charge overnight using 120V. And even when I drive more than usual, it tops back up to the 80% target after a couple days of over-night charging. Only sustained above-average driving over several days necessitates a Supercharger visit.
@@Hammertime86
Really, w the 120V!? Its like 3 miles of range/hr?
@@BasementTracks
Good for you, supercharging shortens batt life
Brandon was so practical. I liked all his points and agree with him 100%
Even if things like range anxiety is irrational for anyone who owns a home.
If the Robotaxi is fully implemented the cost of cars will not be important. I don't own a car in the US or Mexico for the first time since i was 16 yo - I am 80 now and get along fine with Uber, rentals, and taxis. I am looking forward to Robotaxi! I did drive a Model 3 from Hertz for a few days in Florida and was very impressed, but I don't need my own - I prefer to walk when possible.
I had a Prius for the last 15 years and loved it. Had been thinking about going to EV, but had a lot of the concerns mentioned here (range anxiety, concerns about fire hazards, concerns about fragility of electric grid especially during hurricanes, etc...). I had put money down on a new Prius Prime, but they were trying to mark it up $5K and were estimating a 6-8 month wait for delivery, so decided to go look at Tesla and ultimately ended up buying a Model 3 performance for less than what I would have paid for the Prius Prime. Now that I have an EV, I recognize that many of my concerns were overblown and can't imagine going back now. Love not having to go to gas stations or get oil changes. The charging takes less time and is less hassle than I expected - until someone fixes my short-range bladder, the range of the current EVs is fine because I have to stop more frequently than need to charge anyway.... :P Although it's dissappointing that there are so many misconceptions about EVs, I do think that the increase in hybrid sales is good, because I feel like hybrids are basically a gateway to EVs. As the charging network improves and charging times improve, I think range anxiety will lessen. I do think EVs are less appealing if you live in an apartment though. It will be interesting to see how the emergence of robotaxis changes the equation as well....
Lol. I thought I was reading my own post... I did exactly the same thing last June. Was looking heavy at the Prius Prime...ended up with a Model 3, and I love it for all the same reasons as you.
"Apartment charging"
Graze charge
"Now that I have an EV, I recognize that many of my concerns were overblown and can't imagine going back now."
Ah, the Tesla buying experience. It is painful how many folks have that experience yet YT comments on so many videos on EVs or clean energy outside the Tesla bubble are filled with people who don't know jack peddling the same points. EVs are simply better for well over 50% of Americans' normal driving habits and so few just believe they aren't from what the media funded by ads from fossil fuels and legacy autos say with a vested interest in burying EVs.
"I do think EVs are less appealing if you live in an apartment though."
Definitely if you can't charge--but increasingly apartments do offer charging. I checked with my apartment management prior to getting an EV and they installed an outlet for me for free (and 5 others for 6 total on the property). Heck, they don't even charge me more than the normal parking garage stall rate so I've been driving with basically free fuel for the last 2.5 years!
@@tHebUm18 - that’s awesome that your apartment complex installed chargers. I would think more and more apartments would start doing this, as it would definitely be a good selling point for them.
@@eftinga Yup! Many apartments around here do advertise some EV charging stalls, especially newer buildings. It may be higher here though as I'm in Minnesota and it's very common for apartments to have heated parking garages anyway due to winter and it's much cheaper/easier to run wiring in a parking garage compared to an outdoor lot.
Seems like a no brainer for any new construction--I imagine it doesn't even add much to the cost when the building is planned to have it from the outset where mileage may vary on retrofits. For my apartment doing 6 stalls was cheap because they already had 3 unused circuits on one of the garage panels; when talking with the maintenance guy running a new panel from the electric company would've been $7000 or so (granted that'd also probably add capacity for another 20+ stalls).
Brandon is a great speaker, with real car market experience and background unusual for EV channels. Thank you for getting Brandon on.
Isn't Brandon in the used $ 5,000 max. car market?
Agree 100%, good to get outta bubble
Brandon is a good YT channel to sub to for anyone interested in EVs/Tesla--to get outside the bubble a bit without an irrational fear/hatred of EVs.
@@nicholasmuni7995 For his used car dealership, yeah. For the content he covers on his YT channels, nope--covers the auto market generally.
FUD is more prevalent than hype but neither last. Value sells itself.
Conversation with Brandon really adds a different voice to the conversation and we need this insight to grow the community
As per Tony Seba, for the majority, it will be an 'economic' decision.
The apartment complex here in Jacksonville, Florida has available chargers and they’re free to the residence of the apartment complex. I spent two years charging free.
How long did it take to fully charge, or add 150 miles, also did anyone ever sabotage or screw with your car charging in your apt complex?
Nice
It is good to get the perspective of the other consumers. The comments of the man with the hat is what I hear from my friends and family.
I agree with Brandon that a lot of one car families will hedge their bets. Imho they'll go hybrid or stay with ice. Toyota ravs are priced really well
I am a 74-year-old male I bought a 23 model three performance in June and I recently subscribed to version 12 now I have 12.3 and I love it. I bought the car for the technological advances as the best car ever pass it on. Thank you.
at 76 years of age and living totally on social security 30 minutes from a town I am looking forward to the model 2 and to take advantage of major shopping charging centers of which some are free. A little ride sharing would really eat into any expenses too.
Used model 3s are very affordable already
@@khuo0219 I doubt they are for people living on social security though, nor is any car.
Every Starbucks should have a charging station.
Ahh - no. I do not even know where there is a starbuck in Austria. I know where a McDonalds is. 30 kilometers to the south. And the petrol station next to it even has EV charging available.
And parking spots, and apartment buildings, and Home Depot’s…etc.
Every parking spot at a Starbucks should have an EV charger (not all Starbucks have parking).
@@altosack Greetings from Texas, plenty of parking here. But I can imagine in some areas this could be an issue, but so are gas stations.
Canada already has outlets for all apartment building parking because they have to plug in the engine heaters all winter 🥶🥶
Re: EV Adoption: while current ICE owners [the vast majority] might have some resistance to going EV, one tipping point that they cannot control is the mass economics of dropping ICE car and gasoline sales. When it costs the OEM's MORE than they're selling for to build "fewer" ICE cars, the price has to rise. Then as the lower gasoline sales make it unprofitable to run a gasoline station, those convert to either EV charging stations or "some other use", especially in urban settings. I have memories of a "gas station on every corner", literally there being 3 or 4 gas stations at an intersection. That just isn't something you see anymore. Those stations "went away". And then mechanics become harder to find who'll work on ICE, because the PARTS have gotten more and more expensive and so fewer and fewer cars are fixed rather than scrapped and the MECHANIC stops working on ICE or even just retires. And younger people will go into that work to start with. Oh, and INSURANCE! Once it costs MORE to drive yourself or to drive an ICE car w/o the additional safety a Tesla provides [and others might too], then EVERYTHING except maybe TIRES are falling out of mass market an into niche market and niche market is way more expensive. It is economic forces that will drive the adoption curve in this case. It is already at parity. Soon, it will be obviously cheaper to go EV. And people vote with their pocketbook. Sadly, the ones who hang on the longest will start to find that their used ICE car is basically worthless as nobody will buy it because expensive to maintain, expensive to fuel, expensive to insure. Sure, the lowest income people will drive ICE the longest and be buying those used ICE cars, and "save" $$ "today", but those are exactly the people who Robotaxies will serve exactly and then they'll decide to use them instead of having a car [especially ICE] or taking transit. Young urban people use Uber and electric scooters. There are far more young urban people than there are young rural people. Cars will migrate to the country for awhile because it is always MORE expensive to live in the country because it is far less efficient. It is nearly the last stand of horses because they need land and feed. And "buggies" are only seen in Amish country. And not even all Amish use horse and buggy for transport. That's what it will look like in a very few years: it will become more and more unusual to SEE an ICE vehicle, much less to OWN one. Like seeing someone riding a horse in LA [it amazes me that there is still LAPD Equestrian unit!] unless you're in the very few edge of suburbia "horse districts" and even then, it isn't like they're everywhere and they might only get ridden once a day or even once/twice a week. They're a very expensive hobby. Jay Leno will have ICE. You can see old cars at the Nethercutt Museum but no one could afford to operate them on a regular basis [unless they're renting them to the film/tv industry].
Tesla are agile.
Haha!!
Wait what....Hans doesn't drive a Tesla, but rather owns 2 ICE vehicles. Gonna be hittin that right arrow key a few times.
Love seeing Brandon on the stream! What’s up guys!
Brandon was amazing! Thx for bringing him on your show!
Every time someone at work here’s I have a Tesla. I get 1. Wow must be nice to have that kind of money! (They think they are expensive)
2. Don’t they catch fire a lot (crazy but this is really common, my neighbor told me no to park it in my garage because of the fire hazard)
3. Good luck when you have to replace the battery, they cost almost as much as the car. (Yep this is common)
Those are the top 3 all the time, expensive, fire hazard, battery replacement.
I always explain those are not concerns, I’ve only had mine 8 months and have referred 4 who bought one. There are another 5-6 people I work with who will buy one as their next car. If appropriate I always offer them a ride in mine and they are amazed.
Why sell a $19,500 car for $25k and make a $5.5k profit when you can rent it out for 3 years at $0.25/mile and collect as much as $100k profit for the same car?
My guess is that Tesla will quickly move to producing only robotaxis and leave the low priced EV market to Chinese manufacturers. I don't see a reason for Tesla to sell cars to individuals in the future. Perhaps ten years from now, not next year.
That 100K is just stupid. Does anybody do real calculations before they open their mouth?
Tesla will do both. They have so much optionality on the way they can extract value
The taxi business is notoriously low margin. I think your hopes for robotaxis are way too high. Not to mention they will compete with mass transit, regular taxis, and Uber and the likes. That is of course assuming we will have them in a reasonable timeframe.
@@dangrecu4034 I think robotaxis will eventually replace regular taxis and Uber and that's it. The notion that I heard that robotaxis will fully or partly replace public transport or private car ownership is childish. Don't get me wrong robotaxis will be a good earner for Tesla but in my opinion, the real huge benefits of FSD will be in freight transport.
Would love to hear why Hans hasn’t purchased a Tesla when he obviously believes a lot in the company. Would be cool to hear his reasons if he feels comfortable sharing.
58:50 Brandon! You're right about waiting on an EV until your charging situation is solved. In Texas superchargers are 3x more expensive than home charging...essentially the same you'd pay per mile for gas at $2.70 a gallon. (Nearly) all the cost with WAY less convenience if you're relying on superchargers for routine charging.
Unless you're an EV zealot or have access to 220v cheap charging at home or at a REGULAR job, EVs are not your best solution.
Why rely on Superchargers for "routine charging"?
.
The sensible way will be to "graze charge".
You don't "Drive somewhere to charge"
You Drive somewhere and leave the car charging while you do what you went there to do.
Wtf, Tesla?! Why is super charging so expensive?
@@johnanon658 I don’t know, but in TX it’s $.32 to $.36 a KWh. At home…charging at night it’s $.09 on my plan. I have to hit superchargers several times a month, and I buy the minimum required to get home.
Don't forget that 66.1% of US people have a home with the possibility of charging. EV sales now represent 8.6% of new cars sold in the US. A lot short of 2/3rds of the population.
Farzad, I really appreciate you bringing your guest. I learnt a ton from him. I forget sometimes how much of a bubble I am in. Thanks for the education.
Very very reasonable debate to listen to. Thanks Brandon for stating and well articulating your points which make a lot of sense (even for a EV fanboy like me). Not to downplay Hans or Farzad's arguments at all, but as someone in the Tesla bubble this is probably the first discussion where I enjoyed hearing the "opposite" side of the argument without cringing.
just from meeting people that owned ev,s. the biggest problem I encounter is that the competition is so bad its giving the whole ev space a bad name. competitor cars are so bad that if you buy one, you will regret it for a whole host of reasons and you can't wait to get back into an ice car while Tesla cars are so good that once you buy one, then you don't want to go back to ice
8:29 I think hans hits the nail on the head here. The EV story always gets lumped in with the climate and environment discussion. Many people feel patronized by the talk about climate change and how they are asked (in Europe its forced already) to change their lifestyle. EVs become one with "patronizing environmental activist's" and "somebody is trying to change my way of life by force ".
This is one of the problems. However the biggest in my mind is price. If EVs become cheaper (upfront) than ICE cars, people will switch. Battery costs have to come down. Btw where is Tony Seba these days? We could use some of that "gravity" now!
Thanks for your message it was informative for me.
Growing up, I went everywhere cycling and I really had a hard time with all the pollution from gas/diesel cars (and trucks).. doing sport while breathing pollution is not ideal.
When EVs became a thing I was immediately all in because I thought this was a great solution. But I was all in because I personally had suffered from the pollution of gas cars.
In a similar fashion, because I live up north, in the last 30 years we've seen winters shortening and summer become so hot and humid, that it sometimes feels as though we can see climate change with our own eyes (here in Canada).
But if it wasn't for my cycling in traffic experience for over a decade, and for loving up north, perhaps I would have a really different perspective.
@@f0ca94 Glad I could provide some value for you! And Thanks for sharing your story. It was an interesting perspective to hear. To me as well cars without all of the air pollution and without all the noise were super attractive right from the start. But alot of people seem to hate them fiercely. Though Alot of them are I'll informed I believe.
@@Ample17 there's also something to be said about trying an EV for the first time, and having it for a few days to make one own opinion. Personally I have not driven one EV that's not smooth and fun. When reading online or the news about that, I'm sure some people develop their own thoughts about EVs without ever trying one. 🥲
This is so interesting that you are having the conversation with someone who is not "in the bubble", more of that please. It is so much more interesting, and educational, to why the transition is not happening so much faster, and why so many people is not all in on EV. Thank you!!
There needs to be a push to company charging while at work, while eating also needs to be linked to charging, same as going shopping, daily life situations in which people have their car stationary, not just at home.
Dealerships need to disappear
The OPEC oil embargo of '73 created a huge change in the auto market. That made Americans look at their giant V8 powered barges and realize that the small and sensible Japanese cars better fit their needs. We could have another moment like that with EVs if there is a significant battery breakthrough. The costs of filling up on gas along with the added maintenance costs of ICE vehicles really make the value proposition for EVs a better deal in the long run.
Nice to hear from someone outside our bubble. People who don’t have garages cannot get reliable access to chargers. They don’t want to have to worry about this new thing to worry about in your life. There is almost no incentives to add chargers to buildings or gas station style corner charging stations.
A driveway is all that needed to have access to a plug. 110v is all most people need.
The problem is that in the city, people need to park on the street or underground garages. Access to a plug is not available. It discourages half the population in areas like the greater Toronto area from considering it. It should be regulated in zoning bylaws to have accessible chargers
Tesla will be doing well with both Robotaxi and model 2, which share the same platform, therefore save production cost
I (probably to an annoying extent) point out all the Teslas on the road to my friends and it has really raised their awareness as to how mainstream Teslas have become.
In Holland 90% of homecharging is on driveways with outdoor wallcharger. Why do you think a garage is needed for charging @home?
It is not simply people changing and accepting new technologies. It is also new generations adopting latest tech as older people die out.
Relatives from upstate NY visited this week and had never heard of the cybertruck. Couldn't believe it!
In Norway 90% buy EV's. Last 10% coming. Key is infrastructure....
I was thinking about Norway's 90% adoption this past winter when Chicago was unusually cold and all the news media ran stories about how no one could charge EVs due to freezing temperatures. I find it hard to believe that the entire country of Norway comes to a complete halt every winter. Is there something in the Norwegian charging infrastructure to mitigate that or were the Chicago stories possibly just more media anti-EV hype?
Not only that on Norway fossilcars are heavily taxed and that’s a big part of it. The same in Denmark.
@@brianp8384
Watch Bjørn Nyland.
Drives from Oslo to the Arctic Circle, camps in the EV overnight.
Drives home.
No trouble.
it also helps when you are one of the richest countires in the world.
@@brianp8384 Agree, I took my Tesla model Y to Lofoten in February from Denmark and across Sweden the temperatures were down to -23 degrees celcius and the car did extremely well. It charged fast and good consumption numbers. No issues at all.
This was a fantastic conversation. Brandon brought up some great real world point many of my non fixated Tesla friends and relatives. The apartment dwelling issue is huge for many. I really appreciate the openness of both Brandon and Farzad.
I don't give two s**** about the climate change issue All I care about is affordability this way I try to tell people it's how a lot easier to produce electricity than it is to refine oil I'm self-sufficient with my electric vehicle with some solar panels
I want a Tesla so bad…. Insurance for us is almost $1000 more per year
@@Brian-dt4hw Even through Tesla's insurance
@@kurtzxcvb3481 I would want a policy That doesn’t change every breath I take. 2 people I know who had Tesla insurance changed because it was only a good deal for a week. As soon as you go take a drive past 10 boom it increases
Same 😂
Brandon makes a great contribution to the channel.
This was a great conversation guys, love the different points of view.
My apartment building still doesn’t have chargers, but it’s packed with Teslas anyway
Where is that what state ?
Brandon's perspective was very well informed and gave great food for thought, particularly his understanding of delays relative to the different companies financial and timeline structures. Great interview for all of you!
The only thing that's certain with Tesla is that nothing is certain. The are master of adaptation 🎉
And mainly deception
@@bobbob-gx1iq it’s in the eye of the beholder … I’m a ‘hodler’. It’s like a religion, it’s a believe. No proof, no guarantees. You see it when you believe it. Not the other way.
With respect to the dude with the hat, judging adoption on YT views is specious at best…. We all understand the charging question, but the minute charging reaches a certain level of availability it’s going to switch fast. Apartments and townhouses are not that difficult to add charging to in reality. ICE vehicles peaked in 2017, and decline since YOY while EVs grow YOY.
Yes, it can be added and be a source of revenue for the building owner.
“buy the thing you don’t trust and give control”
Love this 😂
I’m onboard with this completely but my lady is the exact opposite. She won’t relinquish control for sh*t. I barely even get to drive when we’re going anywhere together (not complaining though) 😅
A fool and his money soon go separate ways
Legislation will never protect companies from bankruptcy
Great discussion, guys!
Thank you all, Brandon, Hans, Farzad for this insightful conversation. I especially appreciate Brandon's thinking and ability to articulate the consumer's approach to EVs. It will take a lot of time and familiarity to reach that transition point where the economics of EVs outweighs that of gas cars.
100% the problem with EV adoption for lower income buyers is the inability to charge at home. This is especially true for those living in places where it gets cold. If you can't plug in your EV overnight during winter months you are going to have to go to a charger way more often than you want. My Model 3 loses 20km of range every night in the winter, and the range of the vehicle is maybe a little over half of its normal range. Charging every 3rd day or so all winter long is brutal, even at a supercharger. If you don't have one nearby, like was the case for me before Tesla finally built a couple more locations here in Calgary, then you're stuck with a Level 2 charger. That is totally non-viable.
A really clever, insightful and all encompassing debate gents. Thank you 👍
Ironically those who say people won’t buy cars anymore and only use robotaxi are the same who own at least one car and will after robotaxi
Robotaxi may be interesting for the US which does not have public transport. Everywhere else on the world they are just one type of transportation in competition with all others. No biggie.
@@wolfgangpreier9160Correct, but robotaxi could bring train or bus level prices to more convenient and premium transportation. Imagine paying the cheap price of a train ticket and getting a robotaxi to pick you up anywhere at any time.
@@user-py7or7zi5k This will not happen.
Robotaxi is no public transport. If and when Robotaxi is operated by the community it becomes a public transport and does not belong to Tesla anymore.
THEN it can be as cheap as public transport.
We pay 1095,-- Euros per year and can use any public transport service anytime as long as we want in the whole country.
Or 1205,-- Euros for the whole family.
Brandon is right. If Tesla could put 50% of their energy on what Brandon said they would get somewhere. The hype and hot air around Tesla is hiding the majority of people who will not switch
People are led by media and by their peers; as soon as it reaches critical mass in some proportion of those two, the vast majority will want an EV.
If social media had been as efficient during the horse/car transition, you would have seen even much stronger reluctance, but here we are.
@@altosack Disagree. I have spoken about Tesla to everyone I know and they are still convinced it's a pipe dream
He hit the nail on the head...it's an education budget and focus on people who are not in the X Tesla bubble. Good show. Someone post Elon about this.
I agree that to own an ev and get max value you really need home charging for it to make sense. That is where my wife and I get much of the value from our EVs.
I’ll tell you what tesla needs, they need to get people in the seats of the car. Once I drove a model Y, there is just no comparison to any ICE vehicle. It’s just better in every way. I finally drove one last week, dual motor long range, and I was blown away by how good of a car it was. I really had no idea it could be that good. I own an Audi A4, and it is now for sale. I haven’t even tried the FSD yet, but next time I will. Tesla needs marketing and more free tests across the country and it will sell itself. By the way, I’m 59 y.o., not super tech savvy but found this as easy to use and get used to as my Apple phone. It truly is a remarkable vehicle.
I watch Brandon. I'm an investor. Random is very talented
Aptera solar electric vehicle will be available, hopefully next year. Most people will rarely need to charge if they can park in the sun. Aptera supports right to repair which will lower repair and maintenance costs. Aptera is so efficient that the battery packs are much smaller and therefore charge faster cheaper and, if the fail, cheaper to replace. Aptera is a two seat autocycle which will be cheap to insure! Aptera should be very low cost of ownership! Also, the fracking boom will be played out soon. The oil industry will probably be peaking oil production worldwide within several years. After that, the price of fuel will be going up as demand will continue to rise. The total cost of ownership for EVs will be less than ICE cars after that, if not sooner. Also, chargers will become much more available.
If you want a cheap and reliable vehicle, you buy one from Brandon !!!
First part, sorry. but this really is just a cost/money problem. Here in Denmark we are 3 years in front of you in the US, it was the exact same situation. Nobody wanted to have anything with EVs to do. They hated everything. Then the cost came down after some government incentives. Today we are at ~50% newly sold EVs, and even our poorer paid citizens are now buying EVs!
At these level only very few people dare to say anything negative about EVs in public. On RUclips, Facebook, X etc. some people are still hating for course 😀
Only real thing different between US and EU is charging infrastructure is non-existent in US. This need to change soon for this transition to work.
While Brandon made some good points I disagree with his belief that legacy auto will all be around 10 years from now. I believe they are only one serious recession away from bankruptcy. Their profit margins are razor thin, ice demand is declining, they are incapable of shifting into modern technology like FSD or EVs unless they partner with Tesla. However, with the dealership model and unions there is no way they survive without going through another bailout and possibly bankruptcy.
What a great guest!
Always liked Hans but Brandon is very dialed in! Really intelligent conversation Gentleman!
I think I’m going with Tony Seba’s view on EV adoption instead of this guy.
Okay and? In the present the trajectory clearly shows Tony Seba is likely to be wrong about EV adoption. It isn’t going the way we would expect thus far if he had been right.
It doesn’t mean with certainty that he was wrong. The future will play itself out. We get to see it if we’re alive. Predictions are just that.
@@singed8853
Globally, EVs are ramping up very rapidly. China is close to 50% and that's the world's largest market. Here, in the US, we're being bombarded by FUD from legacy companies that have failed to produce affordable, desirable EVs and fear going out of business.
@@singed8853 Q1 numbers tell a different story lol. We had a huge EV hype that is currently slowing down. It might increase again once the economy looks good again, but its hard to tell when that will be. I agree that EVs are going to be the future, but it seems rather unclear when we will have them.
Not to mention that the more EVs are sold the harder it is to keep up those subsidies. If you want to encourage 10% of bought cars to be EVs with subsidies thats maybe possible, but who is going to pay that if its meant to push past 50%? Tax payers?
@@LunnarisLP That's a good point about the subsidy. I haven't really considered how much it could add up to eventually. But then again national budgets in the modern day are apparently fake and we just operate off huge amounts of debt as if that has no impact on anything.
@@bobwallace9753100%
Farzad I work for a Nissan dealer, it was actually 5000 of rebates on the leftover 23 Murano’s in March.
Low maintenance is slept on.
I would pay a good amount to see/hear X spaces with Elon and Brandon specifically talking about the points Brandon has made up to at least 20 minutes into this video!
It is a combination of few factors. Price, range, charging availability, charging speed, ideology and knowledge. Each has a certain percentage for, neutral and against. There will also be overlap of each factor. Great if a study can be done to get a full picture so that each factor can be tackled according to priority.
32:24 scared the shit out of me haha
Guys, Great video. We're Tesla owners since 2016 and have had five Tesla's to this point (currently 2023 MS Plaid and 2023 MY LR). I agree with most of your points and some of them were really interesting. I think you missed one big issue regarding sales. I agree there are hardcore EV people and hardcore ICE people. What you missed is the makeup of that huge group in the middle. Of course they are probably all ICE owners but what's important is brand loyalty. A huge amount of those people are going to buy whatever brand they drive now, most without even looking at anything else. I have an example. I live in Sun City, TX where everybody has a garage and most people can afford to drive anything they want. One of the guys I golf with said he was going to buy a new car. I asked what and he said a Nissan SUV because it's what he currently has and he's been happy with it. I offered a drive in my wife's MY and he refused. He just wants to buy another Nissan. I asked him what he would do if he had a Calloway driver and wanted a new one. The answer was try a few out and buy the one that worked the best. I again offered a drive in the Tesla and the answer was "No, I'm buying a Nissan". I think it's going to take Ford, GM, etc. coming out with their "next gen" EV's to start the next wave of adoption.
Specs of Robotaxi.
- No separate windscreen, one glass front to back (best part is no part)
- 3 seater Robotaxi and 4 seater 25k version. In Robotaxi one front seat in the middle as in Semi. Spacious legroom at back on both sides.
- Sliding side door for automatic opening and easy access.
- Trunk door opening on side. Vertical opening (or rolling door as in Cybertruck)
- Back axle narrower than in front, two low rolling resistance tyres
- Back wheel arches covered for better efficiency
- Cybertruckish design with wide light in front
- No frunk. Space used for legroom.
No windscreen, no rear window, small, fixed side windows.
Single large gull wing door.
4-seater (face to face), each with own 21” screen that mirrors phone.
High roof / low floor for ease of ingress.
Air suspension settles to ground for pickup.
For quick trips around CBD, could be standing room only! That’d be fun.
Since you’re talking about pies, remember the pie is changing. Talk to the kids, they want EVs. Many older adults like to use the Charlton Heston quote “From my cold dead hands!” How’s that working out for him? Many of the prognosticators say “It’ll never happen.” Never is a long time.
Easily one of the best debates I've heard in a long time on this topic, although I prefer not to wait for the EV adoption to happen if it happens 5 to 10 years later in the US then it happens 5 to 10 years later❤
Although I still bet still bet on greater than 51% of new cars sold by the end of 2033 in the US;)
For people who rely on SC, the savings from ICE to EV is pretty much gone, after charging KW price increases in 2022-2023.
So many states, communities have no charging stations, and most still get confused re: Hybrid car vs EV car. Also, part if the attractiveness of owning an EV in California is being able to drive in the commuter express lane. And this benefit is soon gone.
Every supermarket, crowed mall, and movie parking lot should have superchargers. Install lower watt chargers integrated with parking meters in cities.
level 2 for sure
@@rctezluh42069 I'm thinking supercharger (with a smaller footprint if possible) for the supermarket and movie theaters because of the relatively short time patrons will visit those locations.
I am a long time Tesla investor, have a garage , 2 vehicles, and still no EV. My wife replaced her car last year, but I could not talk her into an EV. She is not for/against, totally not on her radar or price range. I won't get one because a) want a Tesla and no other EV. b) need a full size, 3-row SUV or large pickup (a normal one) that doesn't cost $100k and take 2 years to get c) much better chargers in rural areas where I take probably 20 trips or so a year d) better charging.
I have watched a ton of road trip videos, and even the "successful"ones look very time consuming, tedious and fraught. This BS where you may or may not get high speed charging, if you do, it is only for a small % of the range, and you can only charge to 80%. So you are losing 30-40% of range before you start driving, and then anything you do- go fast, heat/cooling, cold weather, load it or tow- range goes down even more. So, those are my reasons Farzad.
@Christine_perkins13 I have test driven. I LIKE Tesla's- but I listed 4 issues that are keeping me from owning one. "Tesla innovation shares"? That will be paying dividends? Sounds like a scam.
Listening to Brandon is like listening to rural Indiana, it's hard. Upvoted!
Great perspectives, I was agreeing and disagreeing with all of you the entire time.
Thank you - ALL three - for a lively, richly intellectual conversation.
Ford may make a 25000 dollar truck, but the latest is a usd 8,000 truck Chinise, can be sold for usd 15,000 in the USA ❤
I'm a bit surprised people are so hyped about the robotaxi now. Like did they all not think it was coming? Especially the stock market was pumping like 4% after hours even though 8/8 will just be the announcement and god knows how long till we get the actual thing (I mean we still waiting for the Semi and CT not really at volume production yet either)
Not to mention that taxi business is very low margin. Do people really think this is a big profit opportunity for Tesla to become a taxi company?
My wife drives 75 miles to work...she pretty much has to go to the supercharger every other day. Before she bought the Tesla, she fills up the ice vehicle once a week. She pretty much trading inconvenient for saving.
That was an interesting conversation. Good point about being in a bubble. I see this a lot with other people. They start seeing things that aren't there and others continue to confirm them in their own beliefs. Is Tesla the future, ya probably. But that doesn't mean Toyota or Honda are going away anytime soon. Not in the next 10-15 years.
At my apartment I can just plug my charger in a outlet outside.
My mom uses this same little dinky charger at her house in the garage and hasn’t needed to supercharge since she got her vehicle back in early October 2023.
She was originally was terrified about range and finding places to charge
Drove a leaf for 8yrs got a LRMY in 22 daily driver can’t wait to get in it everyday 😀
I guess off road parking for overnight charging is much easier in the US as opposed to the UK where 40% of cars such as mine has no off road parking. Therefore a plug in hybrid is as good as I could comfortably do.
This was sooooo gooooddd!!! Please do this again soon!!!
What tax credits on model 3. Are you talking about the lease options. In which case why would msrp matter?
Maybe I should make a reaction video to opinions and facts here. 👀
We've already passed peak oil, shale/frack reserves dry up quickly due to expensive extraction. Brandon didn't mention as of cost of oil rises due to contracting usage, 🔋 cost is going the opposite way, getting cheaper & better each year.
fundamentally disagree on the oil-based fuel issue. gas/diesel prices are based on supply & demand. if demand goes down, price will drop - not vice versa. more EVs means lower demand but, because so many other things are also derived from oil (jet fuel, plastics, etc) there will continue to be a supply, it will still be extracted from the ground. it' just that the supply at the pump should be less limited.
Canada already has outlets for all apartment building parking because they have to plug in the engine heaters all winter 🥶🥶