The Moto Industry’s Biggest Blunders: Euro Edition! | HSLS S6E9
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
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The team is back together again to chat about some more blunders in the motorcycle industry. This time, the gang is looking across the pond at some of the biggest gaffs on the European continent. Do you agree with our assessments? Can you think of some other big goofs we may have missed? Let us know!
0:00 Intro
0:31 Our Sponsor, Motul!
1:36 Not the News!
7:20 Europe’s Biggest Moto Blunders with Ari Henning
1:27:58 The Engine Sound Guessing Game
1:35:23 Listener Comments & T-Shirt Giveaway! 
Авто/Мото
Don’t forget to check out our sponsor, Motul! rvz.la/3uVRCXm
I've been an auto mechanic for over 20 years, most of which have been spent on european and asian import vehicles. When people ask me if a certain car is reliable, I make a distinction between what is "high maintenance" and "unreliable". A lot european cars are "high maintenance". They drive and feel great but are not as forgiving to a lack of maintenance and or making repairs on time. Then there are some that no matter how well you take care of it, they'll break down and leave you stranded. Those are the "unreliable" ones to me. Even a stereotypical reliable japanese product can become unreliable through lack of maintenance and just assuming it's not going to break. And all manufacturers suffer from 1st and 2nd year model blues. Even Honda and Toyota have some notoriously badly designed or executed engine and transmissions.
Exactly, had a 2005 Toyota 4Runner that because of that "closed" transmission turned out to suck beyond 75000 miles. Even on an otherwise bullet proof line, there are issues.
Well Articulated Sir!!!
I've Owned Both & Our BS Vehicles in Our Country.
I would like to add that as an OG(ole guy) myself, I'm Surprised that ppl Don't Do their Due diligence!
I came from The Pre Intertweb Days where you had to Physically Go to the Library, Mechanics and Personal Owners to research the Item I was Interested in....it's SoOo Easy to Find Anything on ANYTHING About any Goods you're Wanting to Buy b4 getting it🥴
I remember when I served, we called it prevental maintenance.
My apology, preventive maintenance.
One of the biggest European blunders ever has to be when KTM refused to sponsor Ewan McGreggor and Charlie Boorman on the Long Way Round. They seem to be doing fine now, but the visibility of that series had a huge impact on BMW and the adventure segment. It's like they had no understanding of sponsorship or advertising.
The ktms would have been so unreliable, oil across the whole globe !
Thanks for the help. I'm a 40 yo guy who recently sold his sports car and bought a motorcycle, 2022 Yamaha XSR700. Watching HSLS, Daily Rider, and the Revzilla website have been not only entertaining but super informative and helpful. Making the switch seemed so daunting for years, always been a motorcycle racing fan, even though Formula 1 is still the tops, but discovering these shows gave me the motivation and confidence to take that last step. Thanks again for the guidance, I know I'm not alone with the gratefulness I feel towards y'all and everything you do.
56:50 *Ari repeats to himself with a confused look on his face what Spurgeon just said* "11 o'clock in the afternoon 🤔" I had the same reaction 😂
"antiquated parallel twin." I'm sure glad no one makes those anymore.
Not so that it's their only answer, also in the big bike categories.
Indeed! The key word is "antiquated" (NOT parallel twin). Modern parallel twins have 180 or 270 degree cranks, overhead cams, fluid-film bearings, counter-balancers and liquid cooling. By contrast the British parallel twins had 360 degree cranks, pushrod valve actuation, rolling-element bearings, no counter-balancers and air cooling.
@@pistonburner6448 I dunno. I'm pretty sweet on that new 750 Transalp. By today's standard of displacement, that's practically a moped!
@@saddle8bag Sure, modern parallel twins can in fact cover a huge amount of segments in a satisfactory way.
I doubt if any brand could build a good enough image only making parallel twins at maximum...possibly.
@@pistonburner6448 They'd just have to make a line of different bikes with that engine. Consider the big 4 Jap brands all have them, BMW, Royal Enfield, and of course Triumph. They are cheap to make, good on gas, easy to maintain, fast enough for the street, & sound good. Triumph was ahead of their time!
What a great way to start Friday.
You guys should make Ari a permanent fixture. As someone who is learning how to work on my own bike, his videos have been invaluable.
"It was a bright cold afternoon in April, and the clocks were striking eleven..."
“Every bike is an adventure bike if you are dumb enough” Awesome quote. One of my buddies for going to far places, often trough tricky unpaved roads, rides a Ducati Scrambler, and while he bottoms up the suspension quite often and sometimes thinks on a bike he can stand up, it has never been a limitation to have fun. He installed crash bars after a couple of incidents and have had to replace a few parts, yet he loves his bike and makes the best out of it every ride.
Desert Sled?
You should see what CBoysTV do with an old R6 🤣
Here in Florida I am amazed at the number of Can Am Spyders I see with wheelchair mounts attached to them. I fully support anyone who is out there riding regardless of what they are on.
The Moto Guzzi V7 got the new (V85) engine a couple of years ago, now it's a happy rolling anachronism that works pretty well, like an R100 airhead... right down to the agricultural gearbox.
More Ari and Zach adventures please !
RE: BMW R18
I went to a BMW demo day last year and the feature was the launch of the R18. And like mentioned at 34:45 the lean angles in relation to hard parts is ridiculous. First ride of the day someone “dropped” it leaving the fairgrounds lot. The worst part? I just thought it had a second kickstand on the right because it was nearly fully upright laying on the exhaust and right cylinder head
I remember during my time as a mechanic at an old Britbike shop, working on a 78 Bonneville with rear discs and having to thread a 3/8" Whitworth nut from the master cylinder side and 3/8" SAE nut from the caliper side onto a mounting bracket and realizing just how ridiculous those bikes were.
Thanks for putting up photos of the bikes discussed. I’m not a cruiser guy so I’m unfamiliar with a lot of these bikes. Interesting topic, but let’s get back to the KTM’s, modern streetfighters and road racing machines. Maybe do an episode about motogp’s new sprint races?
I wish you guys would leave the screenshots up a little longer when you’re talking about a specific bike. Love the show as usual 👍
I lived through that time. The basic problem is that people tend to have blinders on. They think things will continue the way they've always been. There was plenty of warning. By 1963 the Honda 305 super hawk was oil tight, reliable, with excellent brakes and it would hang with 650 brit bikes. Nobody took it seriously, when the British still had the sales and the capacity to upgrade and adapt strongly. The BSA Rocket 3 actually came out first and it was fast, but it was old technology and not reliable. " How can we do this as cheaply as possible". When the Honda 750 came out, they knew they were screwed, but it was too late. People no longer wanted the old fashioned clunkers.
The Triumph Rocket 3 is all on it's own, nothing compares to it anywhere. I tore through the North Maine country side in one and it was like an out of body experience.
To add to the "gotta pull the clutch in to start the bike no matter what" - and also to add to Spurgeon's ammo against Vstroms - my 2005 Vstrom requires me to pull the clutch no matter if I'm in neutral with the stand down or not. Additionally, I had a similar issue where the sensing mechanism in the clutch went out and the bike wouldn't start. I eventually solved it by taking a piece of a paperclip, inserting the ends into the sensor to complete the loop, and taping it in with electrical tape. Now I don't have to pull the clutch! Anyways, thanks for the great content guys and I always look forward to the next episode!
Suzukis generally require the clutch to be in to start, even in neutral. It's Suzuki and Triumph.
@@stevemillerecon I had a suzuki GS500E had to always pull the clutch to start. Back in 1997
I tested the Bonnie Speedmaster 1200 and I fell in love with it, the ergonomics is so perfect as if I was in Triumph factory and they mold the bike around me lol I haven't tested a Harley or Indian that suits me so perfectly like the Speedmaster 1200. But who knows, maybe, someday, they'll come up with something that matches the Bonnie's ergonomics.
Quick disclaimer, I'm not saying the Bonnie is a perfect bike, it just so happens that it fits perfectly to my height and my seam line. :)
As an owner of a 2020 Bonnie and 4 other Japanese street bikes of various displacements, I find the Bonnie the most pleasurable to ride ‘locally’. My Honda ST1100 is still the best long distance bike I have ever owned, and honestly, I’ve owned most of the popular tourers.
Yamaha TW200 has an 18" front wheel and no one would claim that it's not dirt worthy.
It would also be nice to hear the engine sound more than once
Or at least a timestamp in the description
click on left arrow key or if you are on phone, doubble tap left side of the video - you are welcome :P
Always wave to the open three wheelers. Some people have handicaps and that's the only way they can ride now.
The present Royal Enfield 650 engine was designed in England by engineers recruited from Triumph and Ducati. The manufacturing is done in a modern factory in India. The 650 is thoroughly modern bike. Their 500 was a carryover from the ‘50’s Royal Enfield work horse.
MV Agusta will be positioned by Pierer at the pinnacle of their product lines, I am sure - above Ducati in the mind of the buyers and priced at nose bleed levels for "aficionados" with more money than they can spend. I am sure the dealerships will benefit from a higher spec of foot traffic with MV's on the sales floor.
The new Guzzis are so much better nowadays. Truly better. And Lucas Electronics are as bad as you say.
I was shouting in my car with the podcast playing: SUZUKI. Suzukis also require the clutch to be held in to start, even in neutral. There may be some exceptions, but every Suzuki I've owned or ridden has been that way.
The bmw "r18" is an absolute head-scratcher. What a hunk of ???
I was born in ‘54. My dad was a motorcycle messenger during WWII.
My first bike was a 200cc Benelli Sprite. With the exception of it’s electrical system this was a great bike!
In my bedroom, I had a BSA poster showing all their models in 1970.
I lusted for a 441 Victor (or Victim)!
More than twice the displacement of my Benelli ? How could I use all that power?
Back in Hawaii, during the Vietnam War, I owned a Honda CL125.
Anyway, by the time I could afford a new bike, the Japanese were growing like gangbusters!
I remember lying to my mom, saying that the new H1 500cc Kawasaki was a “touring bike”. She swallowed my bullshit hook, line, and sinker!
Now, in my 68th year, I’ve owned a Meriden Triumph (T140 V), Spanish Ducati 250 (springer head), Yamaha XS 850 w/ Velorex sidecar (I had little twin sons at the time), an Italian H-D Sprint, Suzuki GT 750, Yamaha 920 Virago, Husqvarna 250 motocrosser, Bultaco 350 Alpina (a friggin’ great motorcycle), BMW R1150 GSA that I rode to South America, a Honda XR 650 R that I also rode to South America w/ a street legal kit. And a KLR 650 with an off- road sidecar that I rode in Michigan winters in single digit temps.
Now, a Moto Guzzi Stelvio
1200 (P. O. Shit).
Now, I realize that a 650 twin is all I ever needed.
My next bike?????? I’m
I thought straight away that it was a Rotax v-twin from a Mille or a Tuono but was quickly trown off by how light it sounded.
Very interesting show, thanks for the good work
Really interesting vid guys. Also nothing wrong with the latest Moto Guzzi V7 , but agreed it's different & you need to recalibrate your bike brain when riding it as it's definitely an acquired taste. As for clutch in starting, older Suzuki's do it too. Pending euro mistakes will be excessive legislation & forcing electric too early before the infrastructure is in place.
I wouldn't trade my Bonneville for any Honda, Yamaha Kawasaki or other Japanese bike. No guy ever gets misty eyed over Japanese aluminum, on the other hand, thousands of riders love they're Triumphs and Norton. They are icons, with history. BTW how's Triumph doing today? Exactly
Triumph today is completely unrelated to the old Triumph. They only share a name. Triumph today operates similarly to a Japanese company.
19 inch wheel ADV bike is a real thing. Tim at FTA adventures is now on a triumph tiger 850 sport, Amanda had the magpie flies has been on a CB 500 X for years, Her brother rides a V Strom with a 19 inch cast wheel.And personally I had a triumph tiger 800 With cast wheels. If you’re not rally racing and acting like a fool, you can ride anywhere you want with a 19 inch cast front wheel. Just at a slower pace
We had loads of small capacity bikes eg the BSA bantam and everything by Francis Barnett. In my hometown of Ashford we had the Norman brand.
Ok you preks! I had a 2018 Himalayan and upgraded to 2020 V7 III. My first bike was a 2004 Buel Blast. 😂
I know it’ll never be on daily rider or CTXP, but as a Suzuki Boulevard owner, it’s nice to hear it mentioned
"Gatekeepy" - Gate keeping! It is when people kind of try to exclude new people. Not always something they do on purpose, but sometimes it probably are.
So not being gatekeepy is a compliment on that you are exclusive, and make even newbies feel welcome and comfortable!
NEW DRINKING GAME !!!
Everyone does a shot when Zac says “pivot”….😂😂😂 No one makes past first 20 minutes!!! Just kidding…great show guys !!!
You were spot on Zack, calling Honda's SL350 a joke. I owned a '71 back in the mid 70s. Too light for serious street riding and too heavy for serious off road riding. And as for Aprilia parts, some can still take a while. I had the fuel pump on my '08 Tuono fail around 5 year ago and waited two months for a replacement. Fortunately I had (and still have) an '07 Yamaha FZ6 to ride during that time. That bike has had zero issues. (Here's hoping I haven't just jinxed myself) But I have a burning question for Zack. Did you get that insect you were dealing with?
Sludge trap is the term for the cavity in the crankshaft of a vintage British twin which acted as an oil filter.
I hope you will review and talk about the lowly Cushman Husky and the Cushman Eagle, as a kid I had the most fun on these old scooters. There was also a Cushman Allstate. I've seen restored Cushman scooters for over $5,000 and more.
I was surprised when I read Honda's story and he was benchmarking with MG for speed and reliability. Benchmarking on manufacturing and design has really come to statistical data.
Do manufacturers have better supply chains than ordering aftermarket and delivery through a FedEx or DHL? Would depend on distributor?
The R1200C was so slow it was dangerous. I went on a demo ride when it first came out and was stunned by its lack of highway passing power.
Ayyy!!! The exhaust game guy is from my neighborhood lol
Really, where do you live?
@@theprodigalstranger5259 I’m in Rutherford now, but I grew up in Wayne
Sorry guys but you got it wrong on the XL350 Honda the XL250 was sold a couple years before the 350 and was a lot lighter and had fenders and gauges you could remove easily to lighten it and it had almost equal power to the 350 also and the 2 stroke Elsinore in 73 or 74 were sold to replace them
Is this why my ktm has been in the shop literally for half the year?
Trying to compete against Harley is like trying to compete against the baseball cap, t-shirt, jeans and sneakers. It's just American cool and it's 'right' because it just is 'right'. Anything not authentic can't compete. It's not based on attributes, it's based on culture.
For example that strange 90's BMW R1200C cruiser was moderately successful in Germany because some Germans accepted it (those who weren't real fans of the authentic Harley style and Americana), no-one else did. Well, maybe a handful Americans who normally would drive new BMW & Mercedes cars did.
Triumph Rocket didn't replace Harley's baseball cap and (comfortable/fashion) sneakers, it was the one that gave you 'fast' as well as its own type of cool. It was sort of like the arrival of Under Armor, blade sunglasses and fannypack: people didn't buy it because it was cooler but because it was new muscle. It wasn't beer-belly leather vest tough, but a new thing: it was gym-tough.
What about a Honda Goldwing? They could sleep 6 people and had a small kitchenette as well....
Catching this one early! Personal best. Thanks for the new episode! Taking liberty of adding “pivot” to the HSLS 🍻 game. Loaded 🥴 already.
More engine sound guessing please!!
The Benelli 300 are they going to put Harley Davidson badges in that one?
Thanks for the great chat!
If I can make a suggestion, can you guys maybe get into the bike industry take over by the Chinese? I followed Itchy Boots' trip through South America, and it appeared that almost all of the many bikes there are Chinese knock offs. Will they become a threat to the existing bike manufacturers, and, if so, how fast and how pervasive will that become?
I wave at the can-am peeps. I don’t wave at slingshots though. No way Jose.
i love my harley i wouldnt own anything else but for some reason i like hereing what you 3 have to say its a good combonation of people keep up the good work
So is MV going to release a new ADV bike that’s a 890 in a different color? And a 690 in a different color?
MotoGuzzi, I had a 07 Vintage California. For a cruiser it was awesome
My 2001 Suzuki gsx600-f Katana won't start without pulling in the clutch.
Can't think of any other bike in history that requires a clutch-pull when neutral on a sidestand? I can't believe you've entirely forgotten about the SV650, has maybe the wiring loom changed from Europe/Japan to the US? Mine (1st gen faired variant) certainly asks me to.
This is how we do it. No Whitworth fittings. I've had BSAs a 59 basket, a 69 and a 71 triumph. They require constant going over and still will eventually blow holes in pistons even when tuned and maintained by British specializing motorcycle shops. If I could own a Norton Commando that I could reasonably trust I'd be all over it. I dont know how many times the Zener diode would fail on the Triumphs killing the electrical system forcing me to drive home with no lights if the bike would start at all.
Surprised you didn't touch on KTM not giving bikes to Ewan and Charlie
Those BMW C1's are very popular in certain parts of South Africa because in summer it's constantly pissing with rain and in winter it's basically too cold to ride anything open so a lot of older riders choose the covered scooter to commute on. I always just thought they had bad taste and should suck it up, to be perfectly honest.
Now I want to go slam some logs this weekend!
I was in the middle of the woods with my grom trying to find out why it wouldn’t start. Stand was down 🤦🏻♂️
I know a guy that has both a Speed Triple and a Tiger and he has 100K on the Speed Triple and 70K on the Tiger. He used to commute 85 miles each way to work so they both got a good workout since the only car that he had was a Jeep play toy that wasn't even street legal.
Did you catch that fly, Zack?
You didn't mention the MV FLYING FORTRESS Touring cruiser. Both in the failed cruiser section & dishonorable mentions
I wish I would have understood the value of take, trail and wheelbase out of the gate so I would have been more informed during early purchases.
All things aside, those were some beautiful looking motorcycles 👌🏻
Royal Enfield never went out of Production ..they never slowed down in Indian .. One of the oldest continuous Motorcycle manufactures in the World ..
I'm glad the Triumph clutch interlock annoys the HSLS guys as much as it annoys me.
I rode a 1200C. BMW de-tuned the 1200. That was the biggest disappointment. The Triumph Bobber rides more like a retro-standard with a low seat height than a cruiser.
I bought a brand-new 1996 Triumph Daytona 1200, 4 cylinder, when Triumph came back to the States. Just a beautiful bike. I believe Kawasaki helped or gave came influence to the new Triumph company. John Bloor, at the time, said he did not want to have anything to do with the "old" Triumph. Turns out, things were going bad for the new company. Somehow Bloor redirected to pick back up on the classics, like the Bonneville and saved the company.
Good show!
Hey guys! First I wanted to say I love the show and couldn’t get through work without the podcast. Y’all are doing such an amazing job and keep up the amazing work. I wanted to get your thoughts on how I should go about getting my girlfriend to understand she can’t or shouldn’t try to learn to ride on my motorcycle. I currently own a 2000 Zx12r. It is stretched, lowered, -2 front sprocket, +2 rear sprocket, dyno tuned, and full exhaust. She keeps telling me she can handle this motorcycle but I keep trying to tell her that first I don’t want my bike dropped, and second this bike is the Kawasaki/Suzuki speed war 200mph bike and it is “kill yourself” fast. Stock is a 9 second bike and I just think she will hurt herself once the power kicks in. She only has truly felt half throttle while she is on the back and I can’t get her to understand that she has not felt the actual power of the bike. Sorry I am rambling on but I would love some tips to get her to understand this bike is just not a beginner bike. Also I am looking at a ninja 400 for her but she doesn’t want to wait to learn on hers so she’s trying to ride mine. Again thank you guys for the amazing job you do and keep it up for season 7!!
The next engine sound should be on a unibike.
As far as your comments on Guzzi's V85TT, compared to older one's , and as a long time Guzzi rider it feels down right Japanese, okay my newest Guzzi is a 98 EV . And as a owner of a 2010 VStrom I would say ithe TT a better bike, it has a drive shaft, longer suspension travel more HP and much easier valve checks. I'll likely pick up a 2nd hand one in a couple of years.
I was waiting for the Royal Enfield to be mentioned. I want a few of them.
What about Fantic? that looks like an amazing comeback.
The GS series BMWs were being ridden I the 50s and 60s in the ISDE and then Dakar too but look up the old pictures and there's 50cc and 750cc being ridden by the tough Europeans
I believe that Triumph actually never went out of production , huge change and different ownership yes but the way I heard it was that after Triumphs troubles in the 70’s Bloor bought the brand and had someone building a limited number of the machines from stock that came with his purchase of the brand, he kept this going until his new facility and models were ready so that he could claim that production had been continuous since 1902, I could be wrong here so would welcome any comments!
PS it says “Triumph motorcycles since 1902” on the fake carb bodies on my Thruxton 1200, so the above must be true! 😉😉
My 2019 Suzuki c50 would not start without pulling in the clutch. And I think that is true for some but not all Suzuki's.
Love the vrod mention
Is Spurge Brisco County Jr's son?😄😄 Everybody has owned MV Agusta and Ducati. KTM sales wise globally hasn't been the greatest through the first three quarters of 2022 at -5.6%.
Norton finally getting out a very premium priced 961, again over promised and under delivered...same with the new BSA. Honda distribution started out of Gardena California .
Today most if not all popular Honda street bikes are now place a deposit and wait a few months and so far the sales in the U.S. is down 13.2% so far in 2022....can't buy a bike that isn't available. Waiting list even for a CT125 in my area is 45 deep and they are getting two per year.
Norton just came out with their new Commando a month or two ago. The cafe racer version of it is beautiful. Two reasons why I would not buy one:
1) There isn’t going to be a Norton dealer within 3 hours (or more) from where I live.
2) It’s $1K more than a Thruxton RS with less performance.
That being said, I’m a Norton fan, competition between brands is good, and I wish them well.
3) Thruxton Chrome Edition
My 2020 Triumph T120 will start in Neutral if the side stand is down.
Should have mentioned the Aprilia Cube… too ahead of its time.
These guys need to look up a BSA B50MX of 1973 or1974 awesome looking bikes and way ahead of the BSA 441 Victor
Whitworth, what else was built in that standard = spitfires. To still be using that on bikes in the 80's (as Ari said) points to how they were still using and buying nos parts from the war era.
Lets not forget rationing only ended in 1954.
John Bloor is a recluse, he only rarely travels outside his house let alone going to Japan. As proof find a recent picture of him. It was the engineering team that went to Japan.
Producing endless versions of the same old bikes, that's describing modern Suzuki.
You guys can't call Europe a "Nation" 🤔😅
Re British Bike post war- the UK post war went back to how things were done pre-war AKA the status quo, which meant no real investment, and tugging a forelock to 'your betters'. Now the people who came through the war didn't want to go back to how things were done, they certainly didn't want a continuation of the Upper Class\ Working Class (this is how the Middle Class started). Hence you had a slow revolution of working class striking for better pay\ conditions. And yea, British Engineering workers had zero problems assembling bikes poorly (I worked in the Car industry- another PoS output of vehicles). Alas this co-coincided with the introduction of the Japanese 4 Cylinder (AKA UJM), leading to the perfect storm of dwindling home sales due to poor manufacturing, against a better imported Japanese product. Some tried to counter the trend i.e. Norton Commando III or the much later Hesketh, but lack of investment claimed them all. My generation saw the end of the British Bike industry and the dominance of the UJM- we did not miss those old, unreliable, leaky bikes at all.
It was the cafe racers they wanted here in the US. Harley Davidson was well known because people chopped them up but had a bad look associated with that because of motorcycle gangs... and then Honda which they where told they where crazy and told Honda theyd fail... and they didn't at all they did Awesome.
So is 122,000 miles on a Hayabusa alot?
What about Royal Enfield Meteor 650?
That about a ham sandwich? Context in your question would be help.
Ah Lucas, they made refrigerators for the UK market, and are the reason why the English drink warm beer.
1:16:06
Suzuki boulevard line🎉
Talk about American distribution, why has it been such a problem for Moto Guzzi to find a reliable importer/distributor?
Basic economics- they can't sell enough bikes at a high enough margin to continue business profitably.
I continue to believe, no matter how fair it is, that a KTM or an Aprilia would be a great second bike because it's going to be in the shop waiting for parts.
I agree with what your saying about the collapse of the British Motorcycle industry but you need to add Britain was absolutely broke after WW2. Our huge financial debt to America wasn't repaid till approx. 10 years ago. We were having to rely on old manufacturing tools, in the mean time Japan & West Germany infrastructure was given a big leg up by America & others, which I believe was good & necessary. But as a biker its sad we suffered.
Spurgeon "Logslammer" Dunbar could be the funniest thing on HS/LS this season! Can't speak as to MV or Ducati but Triumph worked very hard to make quality bikes and leave that poor reliability rep in the past. I think Ducati did themselves a favor when they ditched the desmo valves. Even if they didn't have reliability issues the cost for the service was astronomical. I think greater than - less than twin ( < > )would be more apt than L-twin. I know that one that's my 2011 Can Am Spyder RT-S featuring a 990 Rotax v-twin! So glad I've stumped all of you! Zack its a motorcycle, its registered, insured, and requires a motorcycle license here in N.J., so it's a motorcycle! And thanks Zack for interrupting Spurge before he could give the funny story about my motorcycles name. BTW Spurge I sent the stages of motorcycle relationship t-shirt, don't know who sent the turkey and gravy one. Happy holidays and all the best for 2023!