Holley Fuel Injection on a Classic Ferrari: Did the CarTrek 308GTB Reach Its Full Potential?
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
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Huge thank you to @KSRPerformanceFabrication For hosting Jared and the Ferrari for the dyno tune! Make sure you are subscribed to his channel, and watch his video on the dyno!
Next for the Ferrari is it goes home to @CarWizard to get the interior finished, and lots of miles put on it!
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In this action-packed video, Jared and Kevin dive headfirst into the complex world of tuning and calibrating a modern fuel injection system for a classic sports car. Armed with their expertise and passion for performance, they meticulously work through the challenges that arise during the calibration process. With every adjustment and tweak, the anticipation builds as they strive to unlock the true potential of the 308GTB's engine.
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Heeeey I recognize that guy….!! Thanks for bringing this fun project
Appreciate you taking the day to get the thing running great! It’s terrorized the roads of North Georgia in a way it never has ran like before!
nice job of the over dubs ;)
Kevin, that was awesome!
Still pissing excellence i see
People that look at a laptop and understand what they're looking at are very special. You are special, dude. You are the new version of the old dudes who adjust carbureted engines to the customer's preference by ear. They also blow my mind. Special.
Well done Jared! You can't hide horses that were never there to begin with. Ferrari always fudged their numbers especially in the early days of smog regulations. Great to see new life being breathed into a classic.
Come on, you really think they didn’t tell the truth!
@@TheQuestionableGarage say it ain't so!! haha
Cant wait to get it home John. Jared has knocked it out of the park with the old girl.
Well, you have tuner-friendly fuel injection, a relatively healthy engine and a useless "trunk" space behind the engine that needs to be filled with something - maybe a turbo?
Eh,, careful boys . You want to get a letter from Ferrari, a phone call, a horses head in your bed..??
Long term vintage Ferrari mechanic here. A bone stock carbureted 308 jetted correctly will make 190-200bhp at the wheels on a dynojet. These throttle bodies in question have been installed many a times in the past. A ‘good’ result with an otherwise stock engine is maybe another 10-15hp at the wheels, which is simply not worth it considering the 40-60 hours it takes to install and turn. A person will never spend that much time in their life working on Webers. Installing two MSD boxes on 308s or Daytona’s etc make the biggest most noticeable difference.
308 motors are very timing sensitive in that they love a ton of timing, and early. Dial in 34 degrees by 3000rpm and fill timing of 38-39 degrees by 4000-4500rpm or so.
We found that out during the runs! Brought timing in slowly and found where it was happy. It really is amazing how restrictive that air box is.
And this one has expensive aftermarket cams, too
It's amazing how much Holly is spending to get RUclipsrs to push these very expensive systems not to mention that you need a tuner on retainer if you want to make it work and you still gain 0 horse power
@@pontiac411but you gain reliability, better fuel consumption, better cold start, better at altitude, no need to spend 3 hours per week fiddling with adjustment screws, it won't flood, it will idle and it can be adjusted via computer or sometimes control panel.
Better than a wick in a box.
@@jochenstacker7448 I take it you don't know how to turn a carburetor.
It’s always a treat when Kevin shows up on the videos! Such a decent humble and talented guy!
180 Horsepower out of a reported Ferrari stated 222 Horsepower after several bottles of wine and a couple of shots is good.
I am sure Jenny will love the power and drivability. Nice work Jared & Kevin.
My favorite part of this is the fact that the more he tunes it, the BETTER it sounds. There's an audible feedback to the refinement process. 180 WHP for a 2400 lb car is not bad at all. It was never built to be a 10/10'ths car, more of a 7/10'ths. A good service and modern rubber and shocks would probably make this thing an absolute joy to drive.
Not sure most of the world would think holley is the best.
Jenvey bodies with a good aftermarket ecu would wipe the floor with this current setup
I thought those were jenvey tbs?
@reginaldbowls7180 no he said its a holley system
Well, when the filter cover was removed and the horns were exposed it's always going to sound better. Intake noise isn't restricted
@@th3b0untyhunter In all honesty I'd just go back to the Webers. Far cheaper (especially as Car Wizard already has them), and once they're set up properly (any old Ferrari mechanic could do it in his sleep) they will offer almost the same performance and be just as reliable. They're not nearly as unreliable as some would have you believe. I ran a set on my old hillclimb car and barely touched them for three years. All that was required was slight adjustment of the synchronisation of the throttles, which is something you have to do with ITBs anyway. Mechanical fatigue still happens with EFI just the same. Aftermarket EFI setups on old engines almost never make financial sense, far better to stick with the carbs if it's a good setup like Webers.
Well done brother. Kevin is a national treasure for sure.
Man, Kevin seems like a crazy tuning expert. You guys are awesome to watch!
He seems to be a if it's got wheels and a motor I can make it run kinda guy 😆
We agree!
He can build, tune and drive. His RUclips channel is outstanding!
@@michaelreynolds1904he two of them could car nerd out for months before catching a breath. Lol
With Holly? Definitely. He has worked on several of their sponsored builds. His fabrication skills and meticulous execution are even more outstanding. As Finnegan says "The man wakes up in the morning and sh*ts excellence."
Just imagine the car wizard calling you for help with a car problem.... Epic!
This is not just "a car problem", matey
to be honest, the results are
crazy good. not because it makes a ton of power, but because you can use it without it blowing up (which ferraris of this age were prone to do).
false
Rofl, what? The Dino v8 was wildly wildly reliable
@@RoverWatersfalse....... Yeah that's why they were so popular and yet they're so rare now. You still see tons of Mustangs, Firebirds, and even Bmw's from the era but these cars are extremely rare to see at shows let alone on the road. Be realistic.
The 308 sounds amazing. Wizard get rid of that air box and just install soke mesh filters and that's it.
If I remember correctly, Wizard paid around 2K for that air filter system.
Kevin is a gem to the tuning world, cars, boats, that man can tune it all.
NGL, had hoped for a little bit more hps, but as you said: Numbers are not important. Hope the 308 soon gets to it's owner- and by that I mean Ms Wizard- and perhaps see Jared getting a ride in the DS!
The 308 is getting to the point where it could be used as a practical daily driver.
Ms. Wizard will be happy to drive her new car!
These only made about 205 HP at the crank. FI will help with drivability and maybe you eek out a few hp and torque via tuning, but I'd be surprised to see much more than 180 HP peak at the wheels and that's pretty optimistic. Will watch the rest of the episode to see!
Watch engine masters, EFI actually makes less HP than a carb setup. Carbs offer better IATs as the direct contact with the fuel cools the air considerably versus EFI. That's probably where the other 25hp went. Also cam timing and exhaust. Big cams and 1980s smog technology probably aren't the best of friends.
9:21 Yeah, on your TPS adjustment report, you apparently didn't use the new cover sheet. You see, we're putting those new cover sheets on all the TPS reports before they go out. Did you see the memo?
Someone had to bring up the TPS topsheets. You can't just let it go. The old are just as good.
People who say "Why didn't you use X" have probably never had to put X on a car that wasn't made for it before. The Holley system is more generic, but that makes it easier to set up out of the box. It worked, and the amount of tuning it took to get it right was amazingly small. If the dragging brake was fixed, you'd gain a little, but this isn't going to be a hot rod. And I bet David and his wife will be happy with what you send back to Kansas
they're also sponsoring it so it's not like there's some choice.
I'd rather see a megasquirt or something more open like that, but whatever it is what it is.
There's many ways to do it, and most of them are correct, and even more are 'good enough'. I would personally go with a Haltech or a MaxxECU, Drive by wire throttles, COPs instead of the noise prone CNPs, and using a trigger wheel inside the distributor housing instead of that massive trigger on the crank. But hey it's not my car or my customer, what he has there is plenty for what he wants and it's what he is familiar with(sequential is kinda mandatory for ITBs imo, not over the top) so yeah...
the nice thing about the holley kit is the simplicity. you could put something really badass on it like a high end haltech or whatever, but the holley stuff is easy to tune, and in this case, FREE-FIDDY.
I'm excited about the Porsche also. I learned a lot about the block design when you all tore it apart. I mostly work on subarus so it was interesting to see the difference.
Great stuff!
The nice thing about choosing this system is, 10 years from now when you have a problem, Holley will still be there to help you out!
Very true!
A small technical correction, the Ferrari is Mrs. Car Wizards automobile. It is not the Car Wizards car.
Nice work gentlemen, Mrs. Wizard should be well pleased.
Right, Wizard just got a first gen Viper. The Ferrari is going to be her’s now.
A 30+ minute video on the most neglected Ferrari in all of You Tube? Can't ask for a better day!
Jared you have one of the best opening jingle music of all the channels I watch, and the content is equal to the jingle. Nothing too crazy, just a regular guy trying to make a living, showing others how things can be done, mistakes can happen, now make the best of it. Respect.
Dyno Pull #64 “We’ve taken the doors off.“
I don't see David or Jenny redlining the engine. They only need a good running engine and useable TQ and HP within the normal operating RPMs. Great job bringing this car back to life.
This episode was 🔥 so much knowledge in one place to get this GTB absolutely perfect!! Amazing work to both you and Kevin Jared! You guys keep up the excellent work!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I edited because I got autocorrected to Amazon instead of Amazing and lost my loved react! 😅
Appreciate your going for it and adapting the Holley fuel injection system for the Ferrari 308 GTB. Takes away a lot of anxiety knowing someone else was successful!
Awesome work Jared! Kevin is the man! The Ferrari seems very well sorted and sounds amazing. I’m sure Car Wizard will be very happy with the final result. Get rid of that air cleaner nonsense and release the hounds!!😂
Gotta find a new intake for that engine… it’s sounded glorious with out the air box
I like what you were able to get this to, but honestly for how cramped it is inside (tall person like you Jared) I would rather have the 07 Camry I used to own with the V6. Made more power and was comfortable to drive. I drove it from WI to Vegas to give it to my brother 4 years ago with 200k on the clock and it did it great. Can't say that for any Ferrai ever made. Plus it made more power, got good mileage and parts were at every O'Reilly in the country.
We usually use only "speed density" type of tuning, becouse the vacuum singnal is so weak with itb systems -> makes wery narrow runing window. Speed density uses only throttle position and rpm to calculate right amount of fuel. The map is used only as multiplayer (atmospheric pressure..)
26:42 That 73 dark blue caddy needs a hug...The 472 in it would make a wonderful project
Awesome job guys. You should be proud of your accomplishments on this Ferrari. That car is going to be a blast to drive.
I saw some of this on the KSR channel. This video fills in some interesting gaps. So happy you made the trip to Florida. Kevin is brilliant when it comes to tuning.
I do love that you actually broke down what in the world a dyno is. After so many years it almost seems hard for me to realize that many people have little to no idea what some of the stuff we take as second nature, and it gives me pause to see the barrier that your audience may have coming into the fold. Good on you Jared!
That was a long awaited episode ,I’m so stoked that the holly system worked so well!! Thanks for taking us along on this car’s journey Jared😁👍🏻
Great job on the Ferrari, both of you! And shout out to the editor for leveling out the sound in that noise shop!
This is awesome! I’m a Datsun Z fan and none of those cars wonderful little cars ever made big horsepower numbers. Hell, my 81 turbo only made 210 from the factory but it is an absolute blast to drive. You’ve got me interested in the Holley fuel injection system to replace my aging Bosch L jet Tronic. Thanks, as always, for all the wonderful info in your videos.
I've got a 76 and have put in a ton of effort for about 200hp hahaha
Great to see this. Again Holley efi has been done a few times before but I’ll admit, every time feels like the first with these cars. Congratulations and great work.
Car wizard must love this car to have restored it the way he did. We all know he HATES aftermarket stuff. And Kevin , great choice to bring it to him. KSR is great at everything.
I love this channel. Awesome to see CarWizard’s car formerly owned by Tavarish being worked on by Jared and tuned by KSR.
Hi Jared and guest love your day and days !!! Good luck on the Gallop
Great job finishing this project for David. You both work hard on these cars
This was really enjoyable. I love the tech stuff. You were taking us along the real tuning process. It's like fine wine. Love it. Many people will love love love this video.
Mrs. Wizard is going to be thrilled that Kevin got *her* Ferrari dialed in! And I think she should run: WIZARD 2 as her license plate.
Or MSWIZ
It was really cool seeing the differences in Kevin's and Jarad's videos. Same day, but very different feels. Glad y'all are working together!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Holy crap that thing sounds amazing.
I saw a advertisement for Holley EV conversion for old Chevy pickups. I'm relieved to see the aftermarket take on EVs. There's some extremely interesting hybrids coming. Toyota had the right idea with the Prius.
You’ll share the tune results with Holley, or just how you did the baseline? It would be nice for them to develop databases for more PIA carbureted classic mods.
Two of my favorite car guys in the You tube car world.. I put both of you in my top five both in knowledge and how you explain what it is you are doing. Some of these car content guys just don't get it. You two are professionals not actors doing some show. Your experiences prove that to be true. Nice seeing you guys collaborate in your vids.
great video I learnt a lot from both of you
Awesome! Thank you!
As far as the 'why didn't you use' stuff goes - it's very much a different tools for different jobs kind of thing. If you use something like a Haltech on an engine like this, you're not using like 90% of the Haltech. The Holley system is essentially tailor-made for old, simple engines, on the street, and can be tuned by prettymuch anybody with a dyno. A Haltech, on the other hand, is going to run all the more complicated systems of a modern engine and a modern car, or a full bore racecar, but you have a much more limited pool of tuners with experience on the system - which doesn't mean they can't do it, it just means it's going to cost more because it'll take longer. At the end of the day, this is a 200 horsepower classic Ferrari. Its just is to look cool and sound cool.
I llove this car, folllowed across multiple platforms.
the Bosch injected 308gtb was like 214 HP engine, old ferrari's are not known for having all the HP they said anyway^^
How many people thought the long lost old friend in Florida was going to be Freddy?
Now...will Earl Leeker show up on the KSR dyno? Find out on a future episode...
Hope the Wizard will find a way to put a better (and perhaps custom) intake system on there, the sounds are just oh so good! Now if only Holley is available where I am...do an FI conversion on my classic project ride!
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Great video. Edito Dwayne: you’re the Man!
Jared, i got a TRANS AM RACE FROM KEVIN AND A DYNO TEST WITH KSR, ALL IN ONE DAY.... GOD and Jared did provide! And we didnt have to question the tuning questions........THANK YOU
No way KSR is the best we love Kevin and the crew
Getting so close to giving the car back I can feel it!
Great video and Kevin is awesome at everything he does. Great choice on that bud..
im sure a 3d printed spacer and longer bolts would help a ton with the intake
Gotta Love Kev, As Finnegan is fond of saying ... Kevin wakes up and pisses excellence (even in a Holley Shirt) :-)
Love it! Cant wait to see the Wizards reaction! Now, on to the next questionable thing! 😂😂
Awesome as always.Thanks for sharing and taking us along
With utmost respect, is it me or does kevin give off A-Team's Matt Murdock vibe 😂. Lol sorry had to say it
Magnum P.I merch please !! 😂 nice touch brother !
Freeing up airflow and breathing is good. But there is a significant side issue and that is you want to compensate for leaning the mixture. This can create more power. It can also increase heat and burn pistons if mixture isn't set correctly...
Dwayne, awesome job on the montage transitions!!
Thanks Leo! I don’t get to use kaleidoscope transitions very often :). -Duane the Editor
Magnum Jared P.I.! I was so wrong in questioning the music choice in the last video lol. Great tuning. Looking forward to see if the Car Wizard modifies the air box 👍🏾
This guy rubbing elbows with some of the best RUclips car guys out there! VGG, KSR... Sheeeeew buddy!
Great work I flew to gainsville Florida picked up a MAC tool truck and drove it to fresno California
My dad had an 85 308 GTSi QV. those higher hp figures you found are for these later fuel injected 4 valve per cylinder car. The 202 number would be the earlier 2 valve (still four cams just 2 Val per) carbureted cars.
Love the nod to magnum p i with the robin 1 plate 😂 and of course the clip of magnum himself ❤
I didn't know Jim Breuer did Dyno testing
Yep. Had a 76 GTB with around 10,000 km for about a year, and your final tune sounded great, just abput how the GTS cars did. Butt dyno on my GTB was about 180whp and I think you brought a neglected tractor back to prime power and to see a 308 run free like this is perfection!
With the ECU choice. The easiest one to setup is the one you've used the most. In our shop we recommend customers get Holley or Haltech (depending on engine) as we have experience in both. We will do other ECU but tell customers it's going to take longer and cost more.
Welcome to Jarod! 🎉
To give you a target, when Moto Tehnique in London converted our Dino 246 to Bosch mechanical fuel injection, the power increased from 180 BHP on the dyno to 224 BHP.
This engine was equipped with Bosh L Jetronic in the factory ( Lancia Thema 8 32 that is a Ferrari engine 308 but with electronic injection (
We found when using EFI and ITB's on an old motor (aircooled porsche) that it was much easier to tune Alpha-N instead of manifold air pressure as the ITBS really dont give you much of range to work with.
Tom "Sea" leck would be proud. LMAO.
I’ve never heard such a thorough explanation of a dyno , excellent! Thanks!
You can try different horns with the wire filters and see how it likes those, or try a single row style air cleaner. Look forward to this car finally being a fully finished car. 😉
Stoked about this update!!
I hope it breaks 200HP
Mrs Wizard should be happy!
Just to let you know they do make shorter velocity stacks and you can get a 360 filtered airbox or individual low pro air filters on each stack.
I'd say it's doing good for a 3.0l 2V engine and right in line with similar 2v engines of the day like the Porsche 911SC 3.0 engine. The Holley solution here is awesome and since most tuning language is the same it's brought this gem into the 21st century. Great work.
If you're needing a tuner, Kevin is among the best. Congratulations on your good road trip
The variability in the power numbers you see depends upon the year of the car and whether it was a US or a Euro car. In 1976 and 1977 US and Euro cars were almost the same power as these were pre emissions cars 265 Euro and 255 US. In 1978 the US cars received an E at the end of their engine number. At this time they received cats and emissions spec cams dropping the power to 237. Then in 1981 the injected cars came out dropping the power to around 200. The final iteration was the QV cars that brought power back up to 240hp.
This car being a 78 or 79 would have originally had the US emissions cams and been 237 crank from the factory. The question is what cams are in it now.
Jared you are the best. It’s always a pleasure to follow your builds.
Not that they will ever push what's on there, but it's a shame that they've got Radial T/As installed. They're junk. Good tires that fit it are expensive, but worth the cost, IMO.
Great video, as always.
The most reviewed car of youtube!🤜🤛
22:13 as Marty and Moog of Mighty Car Mods loves to say when they are at Haltech's Dyno in Sydney tuning their turbocharged projects: PAGE UP PAGE UP PAGE UP PAGE UP PAGE UP PAGE UP!!
It would be cool if holley would start making 2 cylinder universal fuel injection for motorcycles as most bikes were carburetor till the 2000s
Car Wizard like this….😉
Great video
🇮🇹🚗💨💨💨🇮🇹
If Kevin S says it, let it be so. Very knowledgeable on a wide range of engines. Even more so now.
Love it. Scuderia Bandito Approved!
Hope you got one of those shirts for The Car Wizard too!
She sounds good Jerad! She sound VERY GOOD!!!
Hey Jared! Tell David he needs to put a Holley EFI on his Citroen DS to solve his carburetor problems.
No car runs like in our memories, It's awesome is working reliably.
I would keep it just like it is and enjoy it, but deep down I hope you get a more modern v8 engine from ferrari inside