Will Tory culture wars actually help Labour?
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
- Are Labour and the Conservatives already prepping for the election? Both Keir Starmer and Rishi Sunak are certainly behaving like they are.
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The Labour leader launched his first steps to change Britain, but will that help the party on the doorstep? And this week saw more culture war issues being flagged by Conservatives. Rishi Sunak wrote about his horror at disturbing gender ideology being taught in schools, as the government brought in new guidance and rules banning classroom teaching about contested gender identity issues.
To talk about this, on The Political Fourcast we're joined by Caroline Nokes, the Conservative Chair of Parliament's Women and Equalities Committee, and from Labour, the Former Culture Secretary, Ben Bradshaw, who is stepping down at the next election.
Produced by Silvia Maresca, Annie La Vespa, Rob Thompson and Nick Jackson.
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Sick of this adoption of US policy…. It’s depressing.
UK adopted islams sharia policy not the US don't be fooled
Muslims slavery policy not the US
Luckily, it doesn't work here. We're a much more live and let live society. Long may it remain so. And may those who seek to divide us be voted out soon.
Different culture; we're more influenced by our direct neighbours thsn we care to admit
Yes our politicians are complicit in war criminality.
Stumbled into this and how refreshing to hear sane and sensible non-frontline MP's engaging as adults without the insults and hyperbole.
Indeed Russell. I also enjoyed the last one Gary and Matt did with Mhairi Black and Justine Greening- really excellent conversations, informative, respectful, honest....just so refreshing, I especially admire Mhari..but will also have time for Justine's generation of Tory MPs who were booted out by the despicable Johnson (with Dominic Grieve the pick of the bunch for me). I can't quite believe I express that about actual Tories!!!!!
@@starmersbarber Nothing wrong with respecting Conservatives who are rational and moderate, it’s how they should be. I probably still wouldn’t vote for them, but I can respect them.
WANT LGBT FOR ENDANGERED SPECIES?
@@user-wy6mo1vr8t is that a sentence?
They are woke idiots not sane at all
I don't care who's laid a log in the crapper, before me.
I care that the Tories gave water companies the green light, to dump millions of those logs into our rivers.
Millions more due to huge overpopulation after Blair opened the borders.
I do. If MPs don't know the difference between men and women and can't define them, how can they protect them, write policies or even do more complex thinking, like balancing the budget?
I can never understand why Caroline Noakes remains a Conservative. She's articulate and thoughtful. She's the polar opposite of a Mark Francois or Jonathan Gullis, who are inarticulate oafs.
Lol, if shes too articulate to be a conservative, she would struggle to be understood by Labours Neanderthals.
Francois & Gullis are two oddities, not a fair comparison.
@VincentRE79 not oddities any more
@@robinj6137 Gullis is a strange one, also he was a former school teacher.
She’s not a proper conservative you can have her lol
We should all care about the sick and disabled because that may happen to
Anyone
Sounds more like how Americans treat their own than how Britian has always treated the sick & disabled with respect doesn't it?
A sign of a healthy society is how it treats its most vulnerable members.
Wait for the wealth transfer all will be poor, they are open about it.
It’s so depressing that we can’t get more political discourse like this.
ruclips.net/video/HsR27yHAB-M/видео.html
You're just not tuning into the right stations. Try gbeebies - they have some really talented and completely impartial presenters there, and everyone discusses the issues of the day in a fair and reasonable way, without any voices being raised or performative obnoxiousness on display. /s
If you dont want proper debates or criticism then just listen to political podcasts
Slowly but surely, my dude.
Have to say that culture wars ? Have made an electoral impact in Scotland. Trans and hate crime legislation by the SNP certainly impacted on their support
See I would argue that's not a "Culture War". Those are legitimate and complex debates about our approach to medical ethics, safety, freedom of expression, and justice.
Announcing a "Minister for Common Sense" or renaming train-lines after progressive causes. Those are stupid "Culture War" tactics. In that they don't actually solve any real problems. They're just cheap political point-scoring designed to wind up your opponents, as if that's a good thing.
Self ID was implemented in Germany fine and has produced zero issues. Sure maybe it made an impact in the UK but that's because we are so behind others on treating trans people with the most basic respect.
@@calumlambert They make it awfully hard to respect them; always expect to be treated differently outside of basic human kindness and are always on the hard left of politics. If a type of person is almost certainly linked to a political ideology then they are a political movement and we shall not be forced to accept it.
@@jamieeddolls5605 I'm actually from the left. Marched for gay rights in the late 70's early 80's I'm very Liberal but when you build a case that denies science, I'm sorry but they lost me. There are people on the right and left who come out with the biggest load of garbage and are given airtime
@jamieeddolls5605 interesting take. So you are saying they are both weak but also strong? Did you know this is a point of fascism you are repeating? 'They' just say transgender people and have the courage to do it. That brings us to a second point of fascism; attacking marginalised groups to defend the nation. What else you got in there?
6:15 _...because somebody might ask them how its funded._
That's a fair point, because nobody ever seems to ask the Tories how they're going to fund their gimmicks.
🎉🎉🎉
By your response of not.
"There's a constituency in the press, but is there a constituency in the country?"
That's the ultimate point, isn't it. Our politics has been dictated largely by the papers for as long as I've been alive. Now the message is getting through that the papers are not only on the way out, but they don't represent the views of the real people on the ground, and they arguably never have. Time for change. If you want to know what we think and want, you can actually find out.
Really! I never read newspapers. Rubbish Rags for fools to while away their time.
Thank goodness to have a Party speech FOCUSED on the People of the Country, rather than blaming Russia and China. Looking for trouble against two of the most powerful Nations in the World, like Sunak did a few days ago.
Starmer's speech GAVE ME MORE HOPE FOR THE FUTURE than Sunak's FEAR RANT!!!
unfortunately UK have not a longer the freedom of speech
This is section 28.20 Welcome back to 1980s Tory Britain. We don’t like you, we’re going to ban talking about you.
Yep- that's exactly what's happening in Education.
The way things are now I'm beginning to think clause 28 was a good idea. In the US drag queens parade in schools. Whatever adults do in the privacy of their own home fair enough but children are children and should not be taught about what adults get up to in the bedroom
I’m just surprised that Gillian Keegan can actually write. She certainly hasnt managed to perfect the art of the political interview, she’s a proper MUPPET
I personally think Labour need to stop choosing candidates from well-off backgrounds or with a university education and pick people with a working resonance and understanding of the area they'll represent, similar to Dennis Skinner and the late Ronnie Campbell.
Both of those (despite their sterling service) ended up men out of time on Brexit. Someone like Angela Rayner is a decent heir to that tradition, but we could do with more, I agree. In Labour's defence though, lots of people who would have left school at 15 or 16 in the past and become Labour MPs via the unions nowadays stay on at school and go to university. So it's understandable, I suppose.
What is depressing is that Tories are run by people who are completely unlike Caroline Nokes
Caroline Nokes thinks acid attacks are caused by micro agression
I have no idea why Caroline Noakes is remaining in this dreadful Tory set-up. She has seemed so much more reasonable, thoughtful and respectful than most of her colleagues....and is a fine contributor to a forum like this. I presume she's very committed to loyally serving her constituents at the 'coalface' and and she's a proper local in her area....which is probably her main driver. I actually have a lot of time for her...which totally goes against my fundamental anti-Tory stance! I wonder what's going to happen to Caroline if the Tories swing even more to the right. Thanks for this channel 4...I'm enjoying this series.
More extreme than Natalie Elphicke of the ERG ? Lol
Hopefully the LDs will gain her Romsey & Southampton N seat 😁
Waiting for her to be the next defector to Labour.
She's my constituency mp,she's done a good job locally but I've never voted for her because she's a tory
@@tidtidy4159 Interesting. I was trying to project myself into your constituency after watching the 'fourcast' and wondering how I'd feel. Your own lived experience echoes exactly what was in my mind...quiet respect...buy no way Jose vote Tory!
As a centre lefty. I could absolutely see myself voting for a Tory party lead by Noakes and the likes of Rory Stewart brought back in. Depending on where Labour go in the next couple parliamentary terms of course.
I wish more citizens were more like Rory Stewart.
I wonder how Boris missed Ms Noakes' values and allowed her to stay in the party.
I vote Labour, but we need a functional centre-right alternarive. Our system is designed to keep the extremes out.
I remember the French police checking the boot of my car for illegral migrants on the French side of the ferry crossing. How did brexit help the situation?
That's the problem they are not conservative they should join labour
HOUSING IS NUMBER ONE ! But none of you would know that because you all own your own homes, out of touch and not representative of London and the UKS biggest issue iin fact you dont even know what it is ! Ive been evicted twice in 3 years via section 21, Im a working 52 year old self employed English man with my own dig training business which is now at risk because no one wants to rent to self employed people ? And do you think I can get a council flat ? No ? Why not ? Im BRITISH but at the bottom of the queue ? WHY ? YOU DO NOT CARE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EFFECT YOU ! AS I’M A MAN IT LOOKS LIKE IM HEADING FOR THE STREETS….. thanks
Housing does get discussed though- Labour's main policy is to reform planning and get a lot more of it built. Believe it when I see it, but no party has spoken as much about it in recent times.
How about stopping immigration.
The numbers are ridiculous.
Ordinary Brits don't stand a chance.
Since Blair 10 + million added to population.
Never has housing been so serious.
All down to immigration!!!!
Poor Tory representative and failure to mention the elephant in the room, the catastrophic leaving the EU and the failure to get relationships with European allies back on a pragmatic basis, and breakdown of trade and immigration issues
EU was a tyranny, thank dear God we are out! 😁😁😁😁
I don't agree with the lady for the gender neutral toilets. For a very simple reason. There are some in my workplaces and they are always dirty whereas the toilets for women are clean. I don't care if some men feel offended but I guarantee that some are unable to aim.
I don't think that'll offend men haha
Wow! Politicians agreeing and disagreeing and sharing experiences in a perfectly sane and respectful manner. Magnificent. Rees Mogg thinks joining up with Reform, and removing MP's like Caroline Noakes is the way to retain power, when in reality Conservatives like her (and I'm sure she's not the only one) are the way to rebuild trust in the party. I'd still encourage her to join with us though.....
Won’t be voting for any of these lot 😂
you are not taking personal aspirations (yours ... ) for the collective ones, are you ??? Keep me posted on how it goes ...
I bet they'll be gutted.
Vote SDP
@@Da1Dezdo the SDP have a candidate in every Constitutiancy?
This is a proper political conversation. Thoroughly excellent coverage, BBC QT take note - less guests, more time.
kind of shutting the debate down there if you don't read carefully what you said, although I agree, certain guests shouldn't be given time on BBC QT.
@@alice1374what guests would you not invite onto QT?
Fewer guests. A guest is a guest. One cannot be less of a guest than another, just like one cannot be less of a person than another.
The Tories were trying to make return agreements with who? The countries who people came from or the countries who are already taking a lot more asylum seekers than us?
Make the point to France that they could easy take in twenty MILLION extra people and still be less crowded than England.
@@barnbersonol so you want immigration to be based on the physical size of a country and divide refugees amongst countries in that way? Interesting idea, but means we'd have to take more than we do now.
@@jackkaraquazian obv we'd take none at all on my basis while sparsely populated countries catch up. No doubt they want preserve their vast, unspoilt forests while England, mugs that we are, concrete over the little remaining countryside we have left.
Not if I was in charge!
@@barnbersonol Unfortunately capitalism depends on an endless supply of cheap labour to sustain growth. So we'll depend on immigration for a good while yet. An ageing, shrinking population is not good for growth. Maybe we all need to go work in the care sector.
@@jackkaraquazian Nine million economically inactive,,,,get them working.
The problem with our politicians is they are to soft on other countries and wanting to keep everyone happy all of the time
Ok a political dicussion that didnt decend into mud slinging.
That was a nice change !
Caroline Nokes: "What you want is something that says what we stand for THIS WEEK" because in the conservative party the MPs need a card to tell them what they stand for week to week 🤣and yet she also seems strangely complimentary about it... Theres a reason she's on defection watch list
I miss sane sensible, rational debates like this between all parties in Parliament, politics should never be about personalities it should be about rational policies that actually improve lives & living standards for everyone in the UK & yes I know to some that seems boring but politics affect lives & real life is not a soap opera
One example is who actually uses the tips of justice and jurisdiction to be correct.
Finally, proper grown-up adult politicians with some modicum of common sense! And why on earth is the Tory party so hung up about the woke agenda? Seriously?
They have nothing else, so Tufton Street probably advised they need distraction strategies.
Because the ‘woke agenda’ is authoritarian and unhinged.
Divide and rule
The real moderate Conservatives like Caroline Nokes need to work on building up their party again with real centre right politicians & getting rid of all the far right loons who have destroyed the Conservatives with division & culture wars
You British?
@@mikeanderson7549 Yes I'm British born in Liverpool & always been centre politically, but why do you ask ?
Listening to the Tory party is like watching Fox News, is this really what people in the UK are concerned about. Not thinking about fuel , food or health. Grow up you guys
Yes, following the cass review. Updating these policies especially when it comes to puberty blockers for under 18s are overwhelmingly supported by the majority of the public according to polling. It wouldn't have to be talked about if the NHS weren't doing it
No, not the majority. You will see this when our PM loses heavily in September.
@@stephenhill545 Baha, the tories being weak have nothing to do with people accepting the mutilation of children. Absolute muppet
What about Inflation and Food Prices and the Housing Crisis???
For the people telling Nokes to leave the Tories, how has having JRM and Lee Anderson as the face of the Tory Party gone so far?
The Tories have lost their professional class base, less than Labour actually have their working class base (though Brexit made Labour's position look worse than it was). They're now having to compete for young graduates like never before. Sounding more like Nokes and less like Gullis is the way to go.
We need to draw a distinction between "Culture Wars" and legitimate debate about cultural issues. Most people do care about cultural issues. But they don't want to see politicians wasting time on cheap political point-scoring and deliberately trying to wind up the opposition. That may play well on Twitter. But it leaves everyone more divided and demoralised.
This will result in a future war on the last words of the decision of deceit.
This video shows the reason why I now only ever watch Channel 4 news and ignore the BBC. Properly conducted news and discussion. Just about the only source of sane reporting these days.
Hurry up and join Labour Nokes, it's your natural home
Why should she? Do you think having Rees-Mogg and Gullis as the face of the Tory party is going to do them any favours?
"We've got all these radical and sensible policies Honest, you just can't hear them!"
We're not a culture wars kind of place, thank lord.
Odds on Nokes defecting to Labour????
I wouldn't be completely surprised; it would also feel natural. More natural than Elphicke
Seeing and hearing a decent and empathetic Tory is quite a shock. I thought the Oaf(Johnson) had purged most of them.
They are welcome to her.....get a real Tory in....not these hand-wringing liberals.
Romsey is either tory or Lib dem. No chance of Labour winning there so I doubt it
Our first past the post voting system does not represent what the general public wants but it will never be changed because it’s not in the interest of the only two parties that we ever see talked about on main stream media. Neither tories or labour will ever get my vote because neither listen to the people that they claim to represent.
The question in the video's title is brought to you by Time Tunnel: bringing the past to the present so things stay the same! I wonder if they have ever watched a little known TV series called "The Thick of It" ...
Always remember substance use can either end your honor or devote our honor ask the issue and someone will gain the righteousness of being neutral til the time is correct.
Thanks for posting
The both seem to agree on everything else including foreign policy. Nothing to help the people standard of living. (Winston Marshall: Populism is Democracy)
War is needed is to contain the structure of moral codes of intelligence.
But let's not force anyone into that unless we have votes.
Paused @ 10:01 my anger hasn't subsided and that is dangerous.
So the Tory attitude is that no other party can do anything. That's rich!
Remember the reminder that if their is nothing to prove it then you will have a replacement of beliefs for not seeing it happen such as Thomas. Elder to Bartholomew.
Noakes and the tories had it difficult in the home office with immigration because Johnson pulled us out of Europol. Starmer wants go back in. Making gangs terrorist gets MI5 involved with the other forces. She is pretty thick
It Should do but Labour are so limp and useless it's pathetic. All they have to do is hit the fish on the head, it's already jumped out of the water into the boat but Labour still too scared to kill the food and eat it. Sad. Woeful.
Simple solution to the immigration problem:
Employ 20,000 people at £50k a year - working from home (to save cost) - to process immigration claims. It will be cheaper than Rwanda + hotels + boats in the channel.
Caroline Nikes always seems so sensible. Pity more Tories weren’t like that.
It's not impossible to stop the boats, just stop the boats!!
Told you I am of age to accept the mistake of reporting a request i saw human and animal behaviors fallws.
Each should find a way of saying that yes we will help but first teach us to help so they don't miss the meaning of the message of repeating the problem of handling an issue that becomes a misjudged guidance of rules. Or just words on paper.
I am your sister from Yemen, and by Allah I only spoke out of hunger and distress. My mother, my brothers, and I lessons and tears. We are in a situation that only God knows about. God is sufficient for us, and He is the best disposer of affairs for those who brought us to this situation. By Allah Almighty, I did not write this appeal out of distress and distress. Poverty, O world, they have felt it So, I hope for you. By Allah Almighty, Lord of the Great Throne, he ate what I had in the house. By Allah, my brothers, he is my brothers by sitting in the house. Who has no food? By God, we are in a very difficult situation. We have 4 people entering the house, and my father has died, and there is no one who can depend on us and who lives in it.We live in a rented house because we cannot pay the rent we owe. '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''' My brother, my first words are: I swear to God that I will not lie to you or deceive you. I am a Yemeni girl displaced from the war. My family and I live in a rented house in Al-Shahrab 20,000 Yemenis among us, and now we owe 60,000 for 3 months. The owner of the house is one of the people who does not have mercy, by God, my brother. He comes every day, insulting us, talking about us, and moving from the house to the street because we were unable to pay him the rent. The neighbors saw us crying and came back.They came back to talk to the neighbors and we were given the weekend. So we made him swear by God. He will take us out into the street. Have mercy on him and us. Our country is due to this war and we do not find food for our day, and my brothers and I live in a difficult life. Our father died, may God have mercy on him, and we have no one in this world who was with us in these harsh circumstances. My younger brothers went out into the street and saw...The neighbors eat and stand at their door in order to give them bread even if they break it. By God, to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, they closed the door and expelled them and came back crying. They are dying of hunger. No one has mercy on them and a holiday is returned. I have made a living, and now if one of us helps us with a kilo of flour, I swear to God, I am dying of hunger. My brother, I am an alien to God. Then, I ask you to help me for the sake of God. I ask you, by God, to love goodness and to help me, even if you can, by messaging me on WhatsApp.On this number 00967716649494 and ask for the name of my card and send it and do not be late and may God reward you with all the best, my brothers Sagar, see how they are and help us and save us before they throw us out in the street, you will be lost or we will die of hunger. My family and I ask you, by God, if you are able to help us, do not be late and may God reward you well..`/--~«««~~♡~♡~♡~~•~•~♡~♡~~♡~♡~♡~♡♡♡~~~~: ~:~¡~¡~¡~;I.i.i.i.i.i. i.I.|-◖︻︻︻≫──═≫──═≫
Labour's 6 'indications of direction' are very clearly not the publics priorities, housing, cost of living, transport and energy pricing, fairness, protection of employment rights, benefits, pensions. It terms of toilets, on trains they don't have separate toilets for males and females - it is not practical to have segregated toilets.
Not a peep from Starmer after spouting ''cost of living crisis'' for fully two years. What exactly does he propose to help us?
@@user-yi6ui6pn4i If they get far more houses built, as they say they will, then that will make a lot of difference. Otherwise, I think they're hemmed in by nobody wanting to pay any more tax than they do now- we're a long way from the Thatcher-Major small state. Even so, Labour not having any social housing budget to speak of and keeping the two child cap is very poor.
I've never heard of Caroline Nokes , but she seems like a decent Tory. #WhoNew
sure, all the normal pre election bs, scrap all career politicians
Policy can have a negative impact on existence along with life don't dare get me angry.
Honestly, the more i see starmer the less i like him
Im just tired of this two party system, we need proper change, tories, labour, reform and lib dems wont do that
@@edfreak93 Reform on the right and the SDP on the left are the parties of change.
Matthew and Andrew remember the Psyche of each mind and person and people believe their own beliefs that leaves words to become forgotten allowing history to become historical and respect its repeated states.
Dreams and visions are a different type of paper.
Caroline Nokes is excellent
no we want decent policy not a tory light Kier who promises no change
This is hilarious to watch one week later 😅
Its not a pledge card, it's pledges on a card thats not a pledge card.....
But what will NVIDIA say next time to IBM
Protect the vulnerable & disabled and you'll get my vote. #simple
I give up. I'm outnumbered by my own family
I have a lot of respect for Caroline Noakes, trans and non binary people exist, all we want is to be left alone, the tories will lose the election on this
Finally someone saying this. I've been asked what the hardest part of being trans is and in my opinion it's being a living debate. I just want to live my life. It people don't like me for being me, I'll associate with people who care about me. All I want is safety and healthcare
I couldn't give a toss about transgender men, but transgender women are a direct threat to actual women. The people's opinion will never change on this. Outside of that, you say you only want to be left alone yet your sort never fail to support the most left wing parties & movements there are and often support the mutilation of children and the forcing of your ideology on them. I've also never met a transgender person who actually acted like a normal average person before. The only thing I can afford is sympathy and basic human kindness.
Remember John Went to prison James Died on the temple courts.
Caroline Noakes is exactly what is wrong with the current (un)Conservative party. To argue that populism isn’t popular shows how utterly out of touch and out of her depth this women is.
"Antisocial behaviour"...😐
Fine im thinking of flipping the script on where i get to be of use instead of Alexa taking over my jurisdiction.
Didn't i want to smoke on television hahaha 🤣
If the labour party get in and add vat to fees a lot of families will struggle. Parents work very hard to send their children to private schools, not everyone is rich. They want their children to have a good education with good behaviour and values
Sadly so many children disrupt lessons in state schools and there is little discipline..
Literally only 7% of kids attend private school. So that's not a "lot of families" even if all of them struggle. Most likely result is that the schools reduce costs to counteract the VAT. I went to private school in 80s, and the school was perfectly disciplined. But it cost far less in real terms, because parents didn't insist on all the extras that they do now. If you have competent teachers, like we had, class sizes make relatively little difference. They could easily rise to reduce costs. State schools have had to do that for years.
No he just dont know what action made his family ao angry
Why is she in the Tory party?
She sneaked in from the Lib dumbs.
Education is a need so respect can be known by experience of example in the time of transaction and transportation issues.
MP could mean my family Answer or Backwards PM meaning daylight night nightlight. How does one create what is already created?
The “culture wars” are just society issues that need to be talked about and addressed - just ask the SNP and sturgeon if you think that these issue don’t matter
They're not wars. Our basic lack of religiosity has served us well down south. Enlghtenment; rational economic development.
Caroline , 6 is actually an 'even' number
1 / The Labour guy said "as far as the public is concerned" to explain the choice of topics by Labour ... therefore recognizing that politicians follow .. they don't lead .. .Their lead is just optical illusion by the fact they put themselves in front of the crowd, and then claiming ... lead ... Nice try pal ... ...
2 / The Tory lady said re: immigration, for the need to go upstream ... yep, definitely and what are you going to find out when you reach the headwaters ??? Colonization by YOU the UK ... The migrants come from YOUR former colonies, not the French ones. People from the French ones mass-migrate to ... France ...Surprise ???
Therefore UK or French people should NOT complain about the thing THEY created and triggered, unless you want YOUR victims to be it again ...
No worries just words on collects of files and rules that i know it's a mess. I blame the animals they get lazy.
Enough.
But not all humans are of my family.
For example Bartholomew and Judas Iscariot and Peter had the hardest choices of turning their backs on Jesus of Nazareth and the laws against his teachings.
Every laugh 😁 is some ones problem.
As for the imagination of thinking immigration should be valid by the planet basis. And have a statement of ues or no not maybe or perhaps.
They do actually
Awe its IBM
Sorry.
Elon Musk come on tell em that material doesn't exist yet.
Thank you. I ao sorry IBM updated to E.L.F.
Great podcast. I really enjoyed that. Why can't all politicians be like these two?
Caroline Nokes really is a genuinely thoughtful, incisive and decent individual. If only all politicians were made in her mould
No your uaing my hands!