The History of Narzissenkreuz & the Dragon Narcissus (Genshin Impact 4.0 Lore, Theory & Speculation)
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- Опубликовано: 14 июл 2024
- Spoilers for the 4.0 Genshin Impact Archon Quest Chapter IV "Prelude of Blancheur and Noirceur" and "As Light Rain Falls Without Reason," as well as the World Quests "Ancient Colors" and "Book of Esoteric Revelations and the "Narzissenkreuz Adventure Team."
What's the history of the Narzissenkreuz Institute? Who are Basil Elton and Emmanuel Guillotin? What was life like for Rene and Jakob Ingold, and Mary-Ann and Alain Guillotin at the Institute of Natural Philosophy? What is the Narzissenkreuz Ordo's plan? What research have they done on the Primordial Waters and the Primordial Sea? What's the meaning behind the Adventure Team?
And... who is Narcissus, the fell dragon?
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Introduction
02:24 Narzissenkreuz Institute
08:54 Adventure Time
12:59 Nymph's Dream
16:45 Narcissus
20:01 Closing Thoughts
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✨ The Prophecy of Fontaine and Rene's World Formula • The Prophecy of Fontai...
✨ Pneuma vs. Ousia Annihilation in Fontaine • Pneuma vs. Ousia: The ...
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#genshinlore #hoyocreators
#genshinimpact #genshin #原神 
Игры
Fontaine really stepped up the world quest narrative structure, creating multiple stories that fit into a larger narrative rather than one major world quest every new region that explores only one explores one aspect of a nation’s lore.
I agree, and I also love how the major story quests are so different in vibes, but seem to have a point of convergence at the end. Not to mention they seem to link with the archon quest (Act2) in some way. I love it!
It kinda reminds me of Yashiori island in Inazuma, but its like a huge step up. In Yashiori, the world quest can also be summed up to understand what happened there. I already found that interesting, so these kind of quests that slowly build up a whole narrative are soo cool (but also tedious to understand fully since you have to search EVERYTHING)
That whole quest describes the fate of becoming an Oceanid. Mary Ann is how Ann remembers herself as a little girl. The Oceanid form is not natural and therefore they will seek there "true" form this will matter later on. That whole area acted like a domain, lost in time. The dragon represents what keeps Ann from her memories mainly the place guarded which in this case represents her unconscious mind, note that the "dragon" is in fact Oceanid therefore it is Ann guarding her memories from herself this is because the realisation of what she has lost is to great. The traveller realises this halfway through the quest, and much like the childrentale is not fully written so to must Ann create her continued story. The quest ends with the memory of Narzissenkreuz being flooded. This might be some of the darkest storytelling In Genshin yet.
And after doing this quest I realised that there is a connection between Mary Anne and the melusines world quest as well, since at the end the abyss herald travelled to that location with Mary Anne before the calamity occurred, and she used to be guarded by that mecha dog, which after doing that quest is currently searching for her. I wonder how all of that is going to connect later down the line
Forbidden knowledge
The quest getting final part 2 in 4.2
And IT'S WAY MORE DARKER and the entire quest shows it's a back stroy of a fatui sandrone
@@justadragonnamemarcus1751which quest are u talking bout? Sorry the way u phrased it was kinda weird
It's really interesting how many things connected to Mondstadt appear in this quest, even though it probably doesn't mean anything... probably most of these are a stretch, but:
- Narzissenkreuz is German
- The name Lyris is similar to Lyre
- We are "knights" in this story, like we are Honorary Knights of Favonius
- Big blue dragon - we even mention Dvalin (along with the other dragons, though)
- We even mention visiting the temples of the Four Winds
- The importance of [Time] - Istaroth was worshipped alongside Barbatos, time and wind are connected somehow
- When we find the wooden sword, we are even reminded of the Sword of Brilliant Valor from Venti's story quest
- Dandelions. And if we're at it, it's a bit of a stretch, but the whole "tiny parts of a whole may leave and become their own entity" really reminded me of the Thousand Winds (Istaroth as a whole? Or she only made them?), like how wind spirits like Venti became separate entities.
- And last but not least, this story is an allegory. Mondstadt is the city of bards and stories. Not to mention books like The Boar Princess, Fox in the Dandelion Sea, The Pale Princess and the Six Pygmies etc., those which could very well be conceiling secrets or real life events.
The fact that there's that random dialogue about the Four Winds in the beginning, I'm inclined to think the connection is intentional. And with everything else you mentioned.... like I hardly touched on the "time" treasure, but it could, like you said, have connections to Mond and Istaroth and Venti. I don't think it's too much of a stretch!!!
I also noticed some connections with Mondstadt in this quest so im glad you pointed it out here! :D but I havent noticed there are that many soo thank you. Also i heard speculations about Ventis second story quest realesing in future Fontaine patches, soo maybe its also foreshadowing?(but that is just speculative) and I think when that quest finally arrives, itll be something direct about Istaroth and Celestia and we are gonna get a lore bomb.
It will always come back to Mondstadt no matter what nation we are exploring, no matter what side quest we are doing.....it's always somewhat gonna connect to Mondstadt....I have always believed our journey is gonna end where it all started...Mondstadt
@@ishuikaI mean, looking at all the factions of conflict in the game, there is:
- the harbingers
- celestia
- the archons
- the dragon sovereigns
- the traveller
- the abyss
- khaenrieah
- the unknown god, who is likely to be the sustainer of heavenly principles, who most likely is part of the celestia faction although still a big unknown
One common enemy that majority of these factions have is celestia. Inevitably, when the tsaritsa collects all the gnoses she’s going to wage war on celestia, I’m assuming that in the climax of the game, the traveller teams up with every other faction to fight celestia. And what is inscribed on ventis statue? “The gateway to celestia”. In the end we most likely will travel back to mondstadt to go to celestia
I like how Fontains lore is centered around those 4 kids, it helped me connect the dots easier this time (mainly cause I suck at remembering many names but 4 are easy to remember). Anyways thanks for the recap and theories, I'm surprised at how much I knew but still helpful to fill the gaps!
Rene mentioning “variables” in 1st Enigmatic Page and then “undefined factors” after the Mary-Ann’s story made me remember Svarog with his unexpected variable
this is something that I actually ended up having to cut from my scripts for both this video and my other recent Narzissenkreuz one! Just because I didn't want to assume people played HSR or explain what was going on... but yes, this this this.
SAME I also had to think of HSR
Carters’ transformation gives me Nina Tucker vibes from Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood. I love that you mention Full Metal cause all the lore reminded me of that.
That whole quest was an allegory for the entirety of Genshin’s story. With Mary-Ann playing the Primordial One.
oh wow, now Im really intrigued by your comment! Can you elaborate it?
@@CelticBotansDigitalArtI think it's like how the timeloop in the quest also look like the Samsara, we're trying to save the princess (sibling ?) meet friends along the way but kinda obvious, that's all I can think of
@@Wolf-vy7et Ahh yeah, that makes a lot of sense. The parallel with the Samsara and repeating rooms was huge.
If you played Honkai, you'll actually see many allegories and parallels between both
This implies that the one looking for our "mary ann" (either us or Dain) is actually an offspring or branch of the primordial one caused by her reminiscing of the past
Dwight is probably the director of the Institute of Natural philosophy. The Ancient notes document is written from the perspective of someone who was close with Basil, Karl, and Emanual, (i.e, Dwight) and is also a senior figure at that institute.
More importantly-Ann has a bunch of inherited memories that really could only come from the director of the Narzissenkreuz Institute-notably she remembers being brought to the Narzissenkreuz ordo when you take her their after finishing the Adventure team quest. Mary Ann wasn't part of or sympatheic to the ordo, but the Director was. To me, that means that Mary Ann the Oceanid is either the Director impersonating Mary Ann Guillotine or some fusion of the two after Guillotine was dissolved in primordial water.
Great points! I agree about Dwight, and also yes, something weird is going on with the Director's story, and an oceanid-mindmeld could do a really good job of explaining a lot of discrepancies. To be honest, I didn't think I could do the Director's story justice until I had a better grasp on it (or we got more info) ha. Maybe in the future!
you mean like how all of vacher's victims' consciousnesses manifested together in the form of an oceanid?
@@yasminothman842Something like that, but with an actual oceanid as part of the mix
Well, you were right. We finally had an ending to this narzissenkreuz quest.
@@melonsapphire aw yisssss I was right about at least one thing lmao
All the Oceanids in game are named after Oceanids from real Greek mythology, of which there is a Lyris
I think you missed this: Go back to Annapausis, and in front of that… water statue(?) of Princess Lyris there’s an interactable book called “A story” it clearly explains who the water animals represent (you were right btw) and it provides explanation for so much more about this whole mystery.
I did read "A Story" but my god it's like 9 million pages? So I think a lot of it got incorporated, but with ALL the collectibles and interactables it's hard to remember what comes from where and specific things (skill issue on my part). But yes you're right it does clarify a lot 🧐
The place where we met the dog?
@@spymadmax584yes the princess statue has some description
where is that statue? I can't find any water statue nor a book there
@@HmLysI think you need to do the world quest first
the whole world formula kinda reminds me of something from honkai. basically, in that game, civilizations rise and fall over and over due to herrschers, but they always come back, except for when one final catastrophe happens, which is the herrscher of finality. that herrscher was predicted to be impossible to defeat, unless humanity could evolve, which project: stigma attempted to do. the actual project also has lots of simularities with rene’s solution as well, what with the merging of human consciousness, so perhaps what rene saw in his world formula is something similar to finality
Boy, you beat me to it.
Wether is just recycling material from Honkai or it's really connected somehow, it fits pretty well into the lore.
@@Archetype_Angel I think is connected rather than recycled. We know both games coexist in the same realm (imo Genshin is within a branch of the world tree).
@@biazachaWhat made you decide that genshin is within a branch of imaginary tree? The developers said that Genshin is located next door to the honkai universe.
Carter probably had Eleazar. There is a note said that they tried to bring him to Sumeru to find a cure for his disease.
I read it as Sumeru just being more advanced in terms of healthcare than Fontaine. Also, isn't Eleazar restricted to Sumeru? I remember reading it somewhere, but I'm not completely sure about this. (he could also just be from Sumeru, but given he was also from NK Institute I find it less likely)
@@caiohl8135 Yep, Eleazar is restricted to Sumeru due to Sumeru's heavy involvement with forbidden knowledge and Irminsul due to the Dendro Archon and Dendro itself.
Sumeru also has very developed (and free) healthcare, which could be the more likely reason they wanted to bring Carter to Sumeru for treatment.
@@noahi.1381 Yup, and almost as importantly, they couldn't even identify what the disease was to my knowledge
I don’t think so, if you read the enigmatic pages they went to sumeru because there Jacob became basically an immortal being and they wanted to do the same thing with Carter that they did with Jacob but it didn’t work because he was just an ordinary human
I have read through every single side quest, and research note, and enigmatic page, and I still found out that I missed a lot of stuff from this video! Thank you!
I'm still missing things myself!!! There's so much lore!!! How do I hold all this lore in my brain!!!!
@@roozeveltfoxyou gotta do the hard work so that we don't need to waste that😂😂
Thank you so much 😭 i feel like we finally got almost complete story about everyone from the group.
Also poor carter, the part where they cut his vocal cords and they keep growing made me cry ngl. Imagine death like that holy feck-
On the other note- Rene’s formula will probably be very VERY important and I just remembered an old video of Ashikai’s. It was about domains and Rene’s scetch of world formula looks EXACTLY like the thing she spoke about, it was something about alchemy i think but i forgot 🤔
Also,also this just proves my suspicions about celestia having a restart button, and our dear nation from below (500y ago) probably tried to stop the cycle from happening (reread the tiara of frost again, it explains so much now that we actually have deep af lore in the game including sinner)
So far EVERY region had a previous civilisation on it, one or more and i think we can count the cycles up until this one right now, the only thing that is changed is that the Traveler is here now (their sibling also failed to stop the cycle since the world got fecked during cataclysm)
Based on the narrative, Genshin is an alternative version of their parent game Honkai narrative, though slightly more refined, with the problem needing to do lots of time wasting but important side stories/quests to get the bigger picture. The chosen traveller's existence is akin to Elysia, a bug/descender that isn't recorded in the cycles, giving it a chance to break the samsara. The abyss twin wanted the sibling to understand the truth of the world, in a way to give a definite answer to its future, either to preserve or destroy even if they discovered the true nature. The idea of ascending might be akin to Kiana's Finality, breaking the cycle while ensuring the current world still remains and allowing time/progress to move forward.
@@vanessachowjiaying4423 I don’t think they would just recycle the entire Honkai story tbh. I definitely understand that they are VERY similar in so many things, but as Honkai is more focused on one specific group of humans doing things for humanity i feel like Genshin has maybe a larger scale than that? Yes you could say that people with visions=valks but ultimately some people with visions just wanna live their life (Itto,Yoimiya etc) they dont wanna save the world and things like that.
Also I like the idea Traveler=Jesus 🤣 although, Ely was not kinda guided into that role, Traveler started off with just wanting to find the sibling, isn’t that the most important part of our journey? Saving nations and all other things are kinda side-quests for them
@@dreamday988 I understand. Initially in CN, Genshin was intended to be titled Honkai Chronicle, though fans give another name, Yuan Shen which means original god in Chinese language. The Devs accepted the change, though kept some Honkai elements to some extent, just different terms and methods, as seen in Captainverse stories/events.
At least all of Genshin's stories are compiled in the game, unlike Honkai, in which you need the game, manga, and visual novel to understand everything. APHO and Alien Space manga are a partial prelude to Star Rail, which eventually led Welt Yang to Star Rail universes/worlds.
Why should we go all the way to kharenrh'ia. Even snezhaya had that burning the old world thing 😂😂
@@vanessachowjiaying4423Source? This information about the name sounds like nonsense, and does not make any sense. It was the developers who came up with the name Genshin, and in lore it means the one who got Vision. The direct meaning of the name is Vision-wielder Impact.
This entire string of quests / mysteries really got me, I was able to tell the Adventure Team was an allegory and it represented real people and such, all the basic parts, but damn. So much is going on. Reading someone else's interpretation on Reddit, they named the dragon as a representation of the Narcissenkreuz / Ordo itself, but given what you said, Rene AND the Institute kinda go hand in hand anyway (also, you offered really compelling evidence from the artifacts). Really love your lore/theory vids, thanks for putting this together for us because there's SO MUCH to read to just start understanding what happened.
I'd also like to point out that there's been quite some Alice in Wonderland/beyond the Looking Glass going on, especially the latter. The "Hero Sword" in the fountain has a clear reference to the Jabberwocky, the dragon in Alice's story; going into the mirrors, the whole fairy tale vibe itself. And someone pointed out somewhere (I cant remember if it was you? Apologies if thats the case!), that Alice in Beyond the Looking Glass crosses the mirror and is received by Tweedledee and Tweedledum. It made me immediately think of Liney and Linnette talking to us the moment we set foot in Fontaine - the "silly magical cat"-themed twins; makes me think they are like a fusion of the Tweedle twins and the Cheshire cat. Then we have the crazy ass queen from Wonderland in Furina, the "needing more time" and pocket watch from Lyris and Ney/Rene with the white rabbit running around with his huge watch. These are the connections I was able to make, and I think it's a little too much to be only a coincidende, lol. But it also brings the question, what does Alice's world has to do with all of this? Is it only inspiration for Fontaine in general or is there something else going one - meaning, the whole Breaking The Cycle themes we've been having, dreams and memories, and how the Wonderland was "but a dream" / illusion. Hmmmmm
I know which reddit post you're talking about and tbh I think we may be talking about the same thing re: the Ordo, I'm just inclined to think Rene still has some sway over the collective. (Imagine Siraj but amazingly successful lol)
And omgsh thank you for the AiW/BtLG summary! I started to include that in the vid but... there's so much. It could/should literally be its own video. It's SO SO interesting!
@@roozeveltfox ahhh, I super agree with an Alice/genshin video in the near future, especially with more ideas and connections about it you might have thought!
I thought I was alone in thinking that furina was like the queen of hearts from alice in wonderland, I’m glad others have had the same thought
I totally missed that Narcissus = Rene, I was thinking they were referring to Elynas somehow. (Which is probably why I wasn’t getting anywhere lmao). Really cool how you connected all that with materials we got back in Sumeru- super appreciate this video, enjoy your break!
(Also, the whole “heroes who live too long become the dragon” is giving me Tsaritsa vibes as well.)
I think the whole “hero turns into fallen dragon” is an allegory for erosion and how it ruins previously kind souls. We’ve seeing the effects of it since pretty much 1.0 and the fact that the Traveller will be the one remaining with the truth of Teyvat is a constant plot point across the nations.
What happens when beings like the Archons or Apep lose their sense of self but their souls have yet to fade away? A world ending event seems pretty likely.
Amma be disappointed if the Narzissenkreuz plotline doesn't tie in with the main story. Majority of the Fontaine world quests tie back to the Narzissenkreuz plot, and we know Jakob has been active cuz of the Ancient Colors quest. Jakob has been name-dropped in one of Vacher's notes, so if Jakob were to appear in the Archon Quest it wouldn't be too much of a leap now that the Primordial Sea is public knowledge.
"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."
I'm half convinced that the prophecy would come about due to Rene trying to avoid it. I'm now curious as to whether all of this ties to the "Loom of Fate", and whether the Abyss Order is trying to prevent it or they're the one to cause it.
Never have I ever been immersed in Genshin lore until Fontaine. It was implemented so well because it leaves trails of breadcrumbs that you have to pick up and piece together yourself. It feels like a puzzle that you have to solve instead of the game force-feeding you the entire history of that region. It's rewarding once you understand who these people are and what happened to them. It's a much more engaging way to interact with the lore instead of whatever the hell they did with Sumeru.
Great video as always, and I can't wait to see more once new quests have been dropped!
At the very least iirc Deshret was mentioned in the first Sumeru quest, then important for a cutscene in like Act IV. SOOOooo.... At the very least Jakob and/or Narzissenkreuz could have SOMETHING akin to that. At the very least. Also, I feel like Fontaine has been a bit more immersive because we have 100x as many collectibles and interactable items (lol). But I feel like they love setting up things in advance so... fingers crossed!!!
Yeah, i was so excited when i see jakob in the flesh
I want more Jakob!
A abyys being that's not from the abyss Order? YES PLEASE
I love Sumeru, but they definitely took an interesting approach to Fontaine, in which there's only two or three major lore threads to follow in the entire region so far (Remuria, Narzissenkreuz Intitute, and you could maybe count the Siege of Poisson or Parsifal separately, though both of these are related to the oldest Narzissenkreuz generation we know of). And they're all somewhat related (Rene researched Remurian ruins and documents for his investigation). So it makes going through all the texts more engaging because everything could add a little piece to solve the puzzle. It's also a more personal journey because it's hard not to get invested in Alain, Mary-Ann, Jakob, Rene and Carter, so the story is huge but also contained and centered around a small group of people and their journey. Idk, they just did something new for these quests and it's really working for sure, even for people who weren't THAT invested into lore before.
@@mimik173 samee
Lyris is the director (the Oceanid). You'll get this once you piece up Enigmatic Page VIII to XI (8 to 11) and what happened to Rene, Jakob, Carter, and "the Director".
Yeah, it's not straight forward. Gotta think a bit.
I just spent a few hours trying to compile all the notes from Fontaine quests in (more or less) chronological order just to get this video a couple more hours later lol
I searched for this video since 2 days,😂 no one had uploaded on two new dragons- Narcissus and Elynas.
Dottore can divide himself, reabsorb and absorb his copies, has blue hair like some oceanids, and the dissolved girls by primordial Waters became a type of oceanid.....
Not saying he is an oceanid, but with these Powers after dissolving, he got similar Powers like in the notes talking about How oceanids can divide into other oceanids
Here is a “fun” thing to do…
Recall the weird purple “ritual circle” beneath the stand holding the Book of Revelation? Keep that image in mind.
Now go look for other similar permanent circles in Fontaine.
(Exclude the ones that are for Rift Hounds; they disappear after you kill the Hounds.)
Two are out in the wild, and 1 is at the Institute of Natural Philosophy.
Plot their points on the world map for each circle you find.
To be blunt, things are going to get ugly real fast in Fontaine.
Wait, so basically four circles: the Institute one with the oozing concretion, Vivianne and Nanianne, and the Book? so like a diamond around the Court of Fontaine????? interesting 🤔
@@roozeveltfox it gets “better”; doesn’t that diamond shape look like it could be a part of the transmutation diagram on Page 1?
Imagine if that transmutation symbol had been drawn under the entirety of Fontaine 400 years ago…
So sorry to resurrect this comment, but…
In 4.1, *another* permanent ritual circle has been added to the map as well…
something I find interesting is how the nymph's dream set seems tailor-made for childe kit wise, and childe has his mysterious past with awakening that giant whale in the abyss and his involvement in the current AQ. I wonder if the star-beast that will drink the fluid of the world dry mentioned in the monocle lore could be related to the giant whale that childe awoke, and this is hoyo's way of tying gameplay to lore via the nymph's dream set. I've always thought it was weird that they randomly released a set in 3.x seemingly made for a 1.x character, but maybe that was their way of hinting at childe's future involvement in the story.
I don't usually put much weight on meta aspects (as plenty of characters' BiS artis may not be the most "lore relevant") but it's hard for me to ignore the abyssal whale Elynas-Rene-Jakob-Vache-Primordial Waters-Childe guilty pipeline!!
Time Traveler
Excellent analysis, as always. Thanks for another great video!
love your in-depth content!! thank you for the video 💗
Thank you so much!! I had so many questions after digesting all the quests but now I have my answers thanks to your video.
What a great video! I'll keep smashing the thumbs up, u deserve it.
Keep up the good work!!
I've been waiting for this video!! A really enjoyable watch, i love your lore videos and i really needed that adventure team quest explained.. 😮
I've been waiting for this vid! Your last one clarified so much. Loved the art, really helps keeping track of all the names
New fav lore/theory/explain story channel ❤❤❤
Interesting. On reddit there's an interpretation that the adventure with the oceanid mimics represents the third loop of the quest which is an effort that the adventure team would still collaborate.
thank u so much for this video 💗 u deserve so much more subs !
Awesome video thank you! I did all these quests and didn't realize how they were all connected. It's so much cooler to me now and I hope we get some more quests with them next patch!
Narzissenkreuz is my favorite theme from this game. Thanks so much for making videos covering this topic! I hope that in the next patches we will have more lore about them
Yippieeeeeeee the Narzissenkreuz video is hereeeee :D
I love your videos Roozevelt, you are one of my favourite theory channels :D, keep up the good work ^^
Awesome video to prepare myself and refresh my memory for 4.1 lore!
Thanks for explaining this. I was so confused playing through it. x,D
I love these longer videos!
This is an amazing analysis and summary. Subscribed!
Aww yeah iv been waiting for this!!!
This was so helpful! Thanks
"Even if his vocal cords are removed"
Excuse me . How did they know this???? Wtf did they do?? For SCIENCE???
Thanks for the explanation. I am really busy and don't have time to read these story. During my time for eating or doing small works I watch explanations on these quest.
"The Sword" thats also a key is called out in the passage after the NI being built atop ancient ruins is brought up and is discussed along with the circle of four othants. Presumably its a relic from remurian civilization that is relevant to the ritual. It was recovered later on from the NI, seemingly at the oceanid directors expense.
The dissolving definitely seems to be related to the primordial water mixture with ichor. (In Sublimation of the Pure Dewdrop weapon mat). "Primordial water" from vacher's quest is also black under elemental sight.
Such perfect summary and analysis
I really like how there is so much depth into the story, but it´s very confusing and very hard to understand sometimes.
Especially when there‘s no real order regarding the plotline and many things are unclear and leave room for mindbreaking speculations.
This lore videos really are helpful understanding everything or at least something. Especially the Narzissenkreuz Adventure Quest was incredible confusing, but also very well written.
Thanks for the efforts put into this👍
hey love your videos, very accurate and lightning fast as always.
I stumbled over the Mitternachts Waltz again by accident and thought back to your analysis of "Flowers for Princess Fischl". To this day the only mention of Mitternachts Waltz i remember btw.
Maybe it is too soon now but after modified versions of both Remurian Empire and the Primordial Sea are mentioned in the Weapons description, assuming it is an excerpt from the book itself, i think there will be some good value in revisiting the book trying to find new stuff or making new connections to old lore.
Just wanted to leave this thought here. Keep up the great work, i appreciate it very much.
Thank you! I did remember that MW also has some references to Roman mythos, so I've definitely been meaning to revisit it. Whenever I revisit older things I always see new things that pop out...! Thank you again,
this was so very helpful in me understanding this tysm
First time coming across your channel, awesome lore explanation!
reallllllllllllllyyy gooood video here atleast it cleared up my confusion about the Narcissenkreuz
I was speculating since sumeru about jacob and his insanity but didn't know he was the villan all the time.
So jacob got cariberted, same thing he suggested and turned his friend carter into chasm gooey blob, and become responsible indirectly for turning ann into an ocenaid or dissolving her. Good job jacob, what did you gain after doing all that?
worst of all, he lied to and tried to scam innocent little melusine mamere😠🤬
@@yasminothman842 wait, mamere? What has he done?
Nvm I did the quest
amazing video thank you
omg thank you, I was reading all of the lore in the game and in artifacts but you put it all toghether and cleared a lot of misconceptions. I love how you put visuals of like drawings of characters, bc when a story has a lot of characters that are only talked about you can get easly lost in all of the names and stuff. I remember it was even worse when the names are in a language that you don't know and they all seem to blend like in Lyiue. Seriously very inofrmational video thanks
thank you! I've always wanted to experiment with fun ways of conveying info, while also being a lil ~creative~, so I'm happy to see it's at least somewhat effective. It's hard to follow just names, especially with how the notes are often written!!
@@roozeveltfox thats so true, literally mihoyo's backstories can be so elaborate, I remember I wrecked my brains around what the hell happened in the desert, that was literally a soap opera with all the drama, visual representation is a lot easier to follor then just trying to remember all of the information with no way of imagining it or associating
I just felt a honkai impact parallel here
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What if -- and I may be extrapolating here -- the Traveler is the vessel who will become the Herrscher of the end?
This thought just crossed my mind the moment you explained the world formula, and clicked with Canotila's description of the traveler, as she sees him/her as "a monster capable of swallowing the whole world in one bite" while Paimon is the terminal to monitor the traveler
That might be possible to some extent. Though the traveller's potential ascension might be more akin to Kiana's Finality.
you missed a part where it says(not quote by quote but some what similar) "in order to save this world for the finality you need to summon an outsider" and this is something nahida was also talking about that we "the traveler" were summoned....we still not sure by whom but it seems we now know Fontain was involved in this summoning.
Thank you so much for your chronological explanation and theories. I felt so stupid when I completed these quests all by day and was still so confused. I felt very validated when in a couple places you too were like idk wtf he’s talking about hahaha Please do Childe/Neuvillete whale/dragon symbolism soon!
Thank you! and yes, none of this is straightforward. I've been cooking about various Childe/Neuvi topics so stay tuned, maybe.... I'll just say that right now I'm a little worried that Childe will get a bit of that Moby Dick "Call Me Ishmael" obsession with defeating a leviathan 😳
@@roozeveltfox gosh that sounds interesting 😨
Essential lore content. Explanations were a bit rushed, making it hard to catch everything. Still the best explanation of key Fontaine lore available rn.
Thanks! I'm always trying to improve my videos, and I did feel like this was rushed (at least in comparison to some of my older videos which are slooow and overexplained, lol). I'll keep this is in mind for future videos!
My queen is back
Yeah it was a mistake to watch this video before bedtime. Now I´m looking at the ceiling trying to absorb everything I saw in the quest and your analysis.
normally i go through a vid first before commenting but the way you say poisson took me out for a few seconds i really couldnt breathe.
but also thank you for this video
_puaso_
Love these lore vids! My only feedback would be if you could add subtitles along the way? ( Not counting auto translate, that stuff barely works )
Thank you! That's something I've wanted to do because I know auto translate is usually garbage, and I also appreciate when people have subtitles myself because they're so helpful. I'll see if I can experiment with getting that done with this video later this week, but definitely a priority for future videos!
There is one line I keep thinking about: in Enigmatic Page (II), Rene writes "I broght the pocket watch [Alain] gave us, and we compared the time only to find there was already a significant discrepancy..." What could that mean? I wonder if it ties in to the princess' treasure being time itself.
IIRC that page was the one that hinted Rene and Jacob had “entered” the ??? realm from the book (implied to be the Abyss). This means time flows differently in the ??? location.
So, a lot of the fairy tales so far have been meaningful apparently. (alice and her witch friends have writing night apparently)
I kinda expect the dragon tale to be allegorical to something else going on in fontaine, SPECIFICIALLY something with the cataclysm 500 years ago.
we suspect neuvillette of dragon ness, and we still dont know how focalor succeeded the previous hydro archon.
Im expecting something trippy about focalors being parts of water dragon and dead hydro archon mixed or something, maybe neuvillette is like ann or the little furry people in that he is just a part of a dead hydro dragon. Neuvillette also seems to show some deference to furina, frankly by tolerating her, and im interested to know why.
also im seriously wondering if we and our sibling are one entity that got split.
AWooO and another one!
THANK YOU i needed this so much
The story kinda reminds me of Made in Abyss.
tbh I dont watch a lot of anime but if you'd like to explain I (and others) would enjoy it??
@@roozeveltfox I'm not good at explaining but I'll make it short.
Basically there is a massive hole called Abyss (a vertical hole) and people living around that hole (The Town of Orth) are retreiving mysterious artifacts/relics which believed dated from ancient civilization so people's primary job is Exploration. The Abyss was categorized in tiered levels based on it's depth, and each Layer increases it's difficulty to navigate because of so called Force Field (Strains of Ascent) which prevents surface dwellers to explore the depth, the creatures are also more dangerous (and deadly) the deeper you explore.
Further in the story the protagonist party reached a village (called Iruburu village in 6th layer) filled with various creatures in many shapes and forms but only few of em are capable to speak, this place was not affected by the curse of the Abyss because it doesn't had Force Field. They are also had this concept of trade called "Value" and "The Balancing".
Later on the story it was revealed that these creatures are related to former explorers called Ganja (The Three Sages) from Ganja Ships, so basically these creatures are decendants of these Humans who was trapped in this called Golden City. Because of the Artifact they discovered called Cradle of Desire and from that point Ganja Ship members turned into Narehate.
@@roozeveltfox Made in Abyss deals a lot with the themes of human evolution, grotesque inhumane experimentations, and a desperate push for humanity's potential as means to battle (or at least suppress) the unforgiving supernatural forces of the unknown that will inevitably swallow said humanity whole if not stopped. Said story also features very pure and naive child protagonists seeking adventure, only to discover the horrors and trials awaiting them, that not only mean to test their physical strength and will, but their very sanity and souls ready for the taking.
Basically Jakob, as well as his methods and ambitions, would remind a lot of people of a very special character in Made in Abyss.
This was a great video. I really liked it. I'm about to watch every other video lmao. Underrated channel for sure.
Great video, it helps to connect the dots for all the bits of different lore.
If I may offer a slight suggestion, Alain is kind of pronounced like Alan, rather than Elaine. I was a bit confused at first while listening to it.
thank you! do you mean like... Uh-lan? so the way I've said it but sintead of "lane" it's "lan" (unsure where emphasis should go)
Okay, one, I live for all the shots of Kaeya standing around, makes my little Kaeya main heart happy :3
Two, I sadly just spammed through most of this world quest bc I wanted primos, before I realized how interesting it is!
Also, just a little fun fact: I watched this while styling my Mary Ann wig, bc I may or may not be planning to cosplay here lol :3
there's actually another name in the greek mythology that goes by the name of "Narcissus" too.. and this narcissus is an oceanid and the other one is a human from Thespiae in boeotia.
oh, there's actually a Greek mythos Narcissus who is an oceanid? I touched on the name meaning back in my 3.6-3.7 video (now kiiinda outdated) but haven't had the space/time to include that sort of analysis for 4.0. but it's soooo interesting the directions they could have gone for the name inspiration. The human in love with his reflection (lol Rene comes across as a little self-aggrandizing at times, Narcissus the daffodil meaning rebirth and resurrection in Christiantity, but also blanketing the Elysian fields of the underworld in the Odyssey... this could be a video on its own tbh!!!
Just done this questline and currently doing Mamere's.
Oh my God.
the way my brain gave out halfway the quest 😭 genshin lore is so hard
Thanks for making this video. I was looking for an explanation of this quest.
Can you make a video about Elynas?
I covered Elynas in my video before this (about the prophecy and rene's formula) but there are a few things I'm still thinking about regarding Elynas....! so maybe!
THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!💕 I have been waiting for someone to do a video about this quest bc I was sooo confused! Also I have one question: are the voodoo purple magic circles scattered across Fontaine and the Book of Esoteric Revelations related to Renee or not??
I think they're definitely related to Rene! The Book itself is in a circle, so is the Oozing Concretion in his old lab at the Institute, and it seems he was the one who even termed "Beastly Rifts" (the void passages) and "Rifthounds." Rhinedottir = Gold, Rene Ingold... he got up to some _things_.
@@roozeveltfox ok Thank you so much!
The last part very specific
One more thing is that, idk how many people noticed this but.. Karl Engels is a mix of Karl Marx and Fredrick Engels. The two responsible for writing Maxism
Engels? In EN it's Ingold but is it different in CN? Or do do you think Ingold is a reference to Engels? I think we can all agree, though, that we love our Comrade Jak
@@roozeveltfox yes yes!! Sorry, English isn't my first language so I'm sorry if what I said is confusing. And I do think there's some references taken from Marxism since the whole Fontaine aspect is revolving around 'Justice" so if it turns out to be Karl Ingold or Engels, it could be linked to Fredrick and Karl as a single person.. though I need a better proof of this viability.
@@notraidenshogun8324 oh no worries, a lot of aspects of the game I think COULD be lost in the CN -> EN translation, and I'm basically solely EN. I think Hoyo would definitely name their characters with the slightest allusion. ALSO hoyo obviously loves Nietzsche so I wouldn't be at all surprised that they're trying to even subtly reference other Euro thinkers of the time (plus or minus 100 years lol).
Great video! I don’t usually comment much on RUclips, but this vid really does a great job at summarising one of the most intricate yet, in my opinion, interesting world quest and subplots in the entirety of the game. The quests and items and artefacts related to the Narzissenkreutz (Both institute and ordo) really got my theory crafting and tin foiled juices going, and I am inclined to agree with most of what you’ve said, except one little detail - Colonel Kate. I don’t believe it’s Carter, mostly because the personality really isn’t there and also, while Carter was Also part of the institute, the four kids didn’t know him until he became Alain's assistant.
In “A story” it says:
“Ah, yes, what was Lyris's other friend's name again? The little guy with flaxen hair.
"He's not my friend."
[...]
"Alright. Let's call him Kate."
Ah! Then Colonel Kate it is. I mean, he's always got that cool and aloof feel to him. Plus, he's always buried in books, so a rank like that really suits him.”
It doesn't sound like silly, clumsy, not-very-smart Carter at all! No, I think Kate might be a different character we still haven’t met!
The Lyris situation too is something I've pondered quite a bit. For the entire quest it almost looks like Lyris is supposed to be Mary-Ann, but I agree with you - I'm not fully convinced she's either Mary-Ann, or the Director.
In my mind, and I could be wrong, Mary-Ann can't be Lyris because 1) Lyris is mentioned in real life, as a separate (?) entity from Mary-Ann, in the book of revelations and 2) I think she is the narrator in "A Story" as she mentions having to tend to a "silly dog of hers", possibly Seymour.
Lyris, on the other hand, in "a Story" seems very reluctant to befriend Ney or Al, which is peculiar considering that Al would be her brother if Lyris was Mary-Ann (but this could very much be me splitting hairs here lmao)
I do think Lyris could be another different child. From "Heroes' Tea Party", in the Nymph Dream set:
"It was a gloomy afternoon... but that phrase seems to have little meaning.
For the new home she was going to was one that would not see the light of either sun or moon.
Here, the first person she met was the tall, pure Director.
And though she was even less sure of what to do than the little girl, she still greeted her with an embrace,
And got her clothes soaked for the trouble. The Vice Director was old enough to be the girl's mother.
Taking the girl by the hand, she brought her amongst the resting champions, knights, and evil dragons.
She thought that this was quite alright. In any case, the refreshments really were delicious."
Again, I am pretty sure Mary-Ann and Alain come as a set of two lil siblings, so this mysterious, lonely little girl could be an entirely different character we still haven't seen or met. I have no clue who this child might be (there is one unnamed infant held by "Rosa Reed" in Fleuve Chandre Ferryman, but honestly it could be either Lyris or Kate at this point) but my current tinfoil hat theory is that Lyris might be Arlecchino. What are my basis for this theory? None! Except that, if she is actually Lyris, she would probably be very aware of what the Ordo is planning to do, therefore here's why the Knave of all people would take the prophecy so seriously. Plus, of course, there is the returning theme of orphanages, and the fact that (hypothetically!) Arlecchino could be very high in the harbinger ranks, making her a quite powerful, probably not entirely human being that's been on this planet for more than 400-500 years.
Phew, that was quite a lot; I just love this subplot so much and I wanted to share my thoughts to someone like you who has, I think, a very good grasp on what happened and the timeline of it all. Either way I’m definitely gonna link this video to my clueless friends once they finish this quest, so that it can help them sort out their thoughts :D (and hey, I apologise if some phrasing ended up sounding weird, since english isn't my first language!)
Ps- also funny that you mentioned the Alain-Zandik crossover thing because, as a Dottore Enjoyer and avid theory crafter, the moment I read that the special ruin grader we find in the institute "almost kiIled someone" and they got "mechanical parts from sumeru" I was INSTANTLY like wait... could this machine be... nooooo... unless??? the timeline should even check out lmao
Thank you! so much! i'm chuffed to hear you enjoy it!
And honestly I can't disagree with any of your points - I do think the story is muddled enough that I think they intentionally want us to debate things lmao. With regards to Colonel Kate and Carter, it is entirely possible that they are different, but I didn't want to make an assumption based on personalities largely because we've seen two very different sides of Jakob. The canonically crybaby version, literally in every note, and the more "egalitarian" version. Adventure Team quest leans towards the latter for... reasons, I guess. TBH I was kinda going with a very basic and generous interpretation that some things could be uh... straightforward. I guess. At least in terms of matching names.
Speaking of confusion with names and characters, lmao. As for Lyris- I'm still torn. Ashikai just posted a video suggesting that Mary-Ann and Lyris were kinda mind-melded into dissolved oceanid forms, and that causes the confusion in the way the story manifests. I think this is a reasonable explanation. Buuuuut like you point out, there are still a lot of characters who haven't been explored. There's that new recruit mentioned in Nymph's Dream, the other two bestie of Carter, all the people mentioned in Karl Ingold's photo as Poisson.... so there are still a LOT of venues of lore-exploration there with future patches.
Gosh I'm so sorry if I didn't hit everything you commented on but SHEEEESH they went hard with including so many new things and names. But thanks again!! I love this discussion because I knew I'd probably get a few things wrong, or there would be a few things up for interpretation, because that what the story be doin lol
@@roozeveltfox No worries! And I hope my comment didn’t sound patronising or anything, again the only thing I’m really not sure about is the Kate-Carter thing. For a while I also only kinda based my assumption on names and, with what we have right now, Kate and Carter really sound the most similar, but then that passage from A Story… I don’t know, I almost feel like that the moment 4.1 drops I might do something unwise and do the world quests before the Archon Quest just to understand where this is trying to go 👁_👁
I keep going back and forth with Lyris and her identity, and honestly I have to say that the Dissolved Mary-Ann theory also makes a lot of sense. Just as René became someone different (Possibly “The Master”?) once he decided to dissolve himself into primordial waters, merging his consciousness with multiple individuals, “Lyris” too could very much be the result of a similar process…
Also on a side note, fun fact! A friend of mine noticed how in Japanese “Alice” (considering the whole Alice in Wonderland theme of this entire quest) and “Lyris” are spelled in a very similar way (A-ri-su and Ri-ri-su; and also in Chinese it’s the same - only the first character changes), but who knows if this is intentional, if it has a deeper meaning, or if it’s just the writers being like HMMM we need a protagonist for our Alice in wonderland-like story, let’s just swap the first character and call it a day (very plausible)
Lore wise.. this is my favorite world quest alongside enkanomiya
it’s quite sad that those places are being forgotten in fontaine
we're definitely going full End of Evangelion by the end of the story
I agree with everyone, theres definitely a boat load of foreshadowing for the endgame
Well thats answered most of my question about fontaine lore so far but one thing that I still confused about what exactly is an oceanid? from the book I found on the institute oceanid is kinda like aranara to rukha or jinnie to GOF but it also tells us about how oceanid exist predates the first hydro archon and from primodial water and the people who dissolved into water can turned to oceanid (the missing girls, rene possibly, and mary ann)
Thanks for the video been waiting for this since ur last video on narcissus
"what exactly is an oceanid" (laughs nervously) ... I'm cooking on this with high heat. And I'd bet other theorists are too with some other neat ideas! Sorry to keep you waiting on such a burning question, but thank you for enjoying the vid!!
I clicked on this video to escape the pain Evan just put me through, only to be jumpscared by the human instrumentality project
Thanks for this video, I was very confused during all the world quests. I have a feeling René and the rest of the Narzissenkreuz crew will come up in later regions, or at least the effects of their research will be seen in other regions.
Also did René become a sentient part of the primordial sea or is he just a separate entity? Either way, I thinks it’s possible we’ll encounter him like we encountered Jakob.
Also also idk where the put this but I think it’s a cool detail that René is the one that coined the term “Rift wolves”. He’s slowly becoming one of my favourite NPCs (in terms of lore), plus we have the same name lol
Thank you! I don't have a good answer about what Rene is now. He's definitely dissolved, buuuut I wonder if somehow his "will" or personality is still strong enough to maintain umm... Rene-ness. (I know he said he'd shed his personality, but I personally imagine his goals and motivations could have a strong effect on the collective? Not sure!)
I like how she pauses briefly whenever pronouncing poisson 😂
_puaso_
I actually thought Rene is genuinely gone at one point, replaced by a resurrected (?)Carter (??), that was returned because Rene did his thing.
Read the mysterious book again, in book 11 or 12. At one point whoever is writing mentions Rene in 3rd person, but leaves out the name of Carter…
I had a convo with a friend who thought the same thing, so I get where you're coming from. My interpretation was that 1) the last we heard of Carter was that he was still in a bad state and Rene had a plan to save him, and 2) before Rene dissolved, he did say he would shed "useless personality".... the way I read that was that he was fully ready and intent to go full hivemind. And to me, it didn't make sense that Carter would randomly take over, and it'd also make more sense for all the notes to be written by Rene (or "Rene"). Also the fact that they go to big lengths to make Carter out ot be way less clever than Rene (and eveyone else lol). but I could be wrong!
Whatever the case, it seems like Rene did something weird to Carter, and maybe something weirder happened even later...
I was thinking, what if this whole fairy tale is here to preserve a story that was deleted in irminsul, and hence Ann struggles so much to remember?
It seems like all the people involved ACTUALLY knew something about the true nature of this world, especially Rene
Hi, I am new to your videos. I noticed you have a lot of characters and names going on without anything on the screen like at 6:37. I watched another creator for other lore, Necrit, in his lore video he just put up an outline of a person and the name and pictures of things seen in the game (ie like when you mention an artifact set). I like the way you explain things but got lost kinda quickly. This would probably take more time for editing so i understand if you don’t do any of this. Thank you for the lore video.
I thought Mary-Ann was always an oceanid, since elynas mentions one of the people who entered his body was a water spirit or something
Mary-ann does say she used to be human... and I'm still not 1000% on this, but I imagine the primordial spirit is either (1) rene dissolved doing things or (2) the oceanid director. But It's convoluted so I'm still cookin!!!
So about the birthing water consumed by the star beast would meant about the Arvhon quest and the Narwhal no? Because it already consumed so much there will be none left in the future or maybe hinting on its demise later on because he is described as becoming the sea itself by Neuvilette? And how does the Narwhal consuming primordial water affect Rene? Will Rene possess the Narwhal or just be consumed? Man this things is ehat makes Genshin lore so much fun.
remember in 3.0 trailer or something dottore burning the tree? are we missing that event?
I know a lot of lorenerds think it was metaphorical, as it was Collei's dream.... BUT hoyo has shown they usually plot things WAY in advance so who know what could happen!!!
Wait, does this mean that the external variable that renee needed to bring change to the truth of his world formula is actually the traveller.. and the people who will bring the inevitable ruin is ironically renee and jakob themsleves?
To be fair, the external factor could also be the Abyss, given Rene’s later obsession with it.
@@InsaneInquis @raiboodie Raiboodie's interpretation is the one I've been leaning towards (especially with the note about Neohumans and Detoxifying characters), but it's also interesting to remember that in the Caribert quest Chlothar DID say that to Khaenri'ah, the sibling was the abyss....
@@roozeveltfox however some thing that threw me off was canotilla saying that the truth in her eyes is that the traveler is a creature that would engulf the world. So confusing but intriguing
Narzissenkreuz Ordo stuff felt like Bioshock. Much better than Aranara imo but way more confusing. Seems like the Nymphs Dream Artifact set was added purely for lore 😭
🍿
I think the best friend mary ann was refering to was Carter?
thank gawd someone else got dottore vibes from that shit
Colonel Kate cant be Carter, (at least the colonel Kate mentioned in A Story). The description doesnt match. Carter was noted to be dull in comparison. The timing of carter being at the institute doesnt line up as he is notably older than all the main cast of kids. The narrator of "A Story" addresses Kate as older than the person being told the story. CN Translations here also check out with this. Lyris is just a mess at this point theres too many possibilities. Mary Ann is the only owner of Seymour the robotic dog, but seymour the robotic one was only made after carters death. In any case if the narrator was mary ann then Kate couldnt be carter and lyris would be a mystery kid as ann was noted to be the youngest of the main 4 and carter was an adult while alain was a child. Theres a few other inconsistencies with kate= carter but its chaotic. Also the person hearing the story is not friends with any of the main 4, which makes it even more confusing, because they make it clear alain is older than them. So theres at minimum 2 mystery kids. Also carter had 2 unnamed female peers in his gen at the narzissenkreuz institute.
honestly, REALLY looking at any of the mimics and their personalities and story history, a lot of discrepancies surface imo. Even Ney matches only superficially with Rene tbh. So you're right and like you said it's even more complicated by the unknown characters. iirc Nymph's Dream also mentions an unknown girl who joined Narzissenkreuz. But to me, I went with a very simple explanation in my brain where I figured Colonel Kate was not a part of the Adventure Team in the same way Carter was not a part of the original 4, but still had gone to Narzissenkreuz Institute and later linked up with them. But I could be super wrong!
In the world quest in 4.1 we met Carter known as Carterpillar... is he the same Carter then coz I have a feeling it somehow connects?
Oh thank goodness someone can tell me what happened during this quest. I read exactly 0 lines of it.
Ah yes "poisson" a wonderful moment of french