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I think this was probably the only way they could have brought RDJ back without me being interested in the slightest. Grats to him for the paycheck, but I'm passing.
Not only is it embarrassing, it is desperate and just going to spoil RDJ's legacy when he leaves the MCU on a low, awkward note. He should have left things as they were.
One way I feel this could go well is if we discover the Doom Variant of Iron Man is a version of Tony stark who survived the snap at the end of Endgame, who didn’t die a hero and instead lived long enough to see himself become the villain. It would give a good reason why he wears the mask- to cover his scars from using the stones. It could also give meta commentary about how iron man and some things- like the MCU- should have been allowed to end instead of carrying on, ultimately accepting vision’s quote “A thing isn’t beautiful just because it lasts”.
It may be a desperate move, I mean yeah they are getting desperate at this point...but honestly if they do it right I think it could work. I don't think RDJ will return as THE doctor doom, but a doctor doom version of stark probably.
@memegazer the problem is three fold in my opinion when bringing in RDJ. Firsr it absolutely still takes some bite out of Iron Man's death, as his face is iconically associated with Iron Man. It's a marketing ploy, to be able to say they have RDJ again but try to act like they aren't bringing back an actor who will always be associated witht the main character they killed. Second, if you think about it, it would actually be far weirder if nobody ever mentions it's a Stark variant. Like you're sayin Thor or whoever sees that face and doesn't comment on it? That'd make no sense. I bring this up because i constantly see the argument that its a different character, but on a story telling level they have to make the Iron Man connection at least once. And lastly, I love RDJ but he has only one note. He plays the same character in most movies with slight variations. I don't think he'll pull off doom well on an acting level for that reason.
@@Ihelpertricks I agree with all your points except that RDJ has no range. I would agree if you say he gets typecast a lot. But I have seen him in roles that demonstrate he has range. Like his come back role in a scaner darkly. Or heck his comedic performance in tropic thunder. RDJ can act imo, I am confident he could do a stand alone compelling performance of victor von doom if they gave him a chance...I just don't think that is very likely bc of the reason you have pointed out.
@@Lance-ro5tidude go watch Agatha then 😅 they cast one of the best actor available in the industry who literally build the MCU and you’re complaining 🤣 it’s hilarious how you guys are never happy it’s an actor they play different roles every year but coming back in the MCU is too much ?!??!?
@@Paulin-pw5jxdude having iron man play Dr doom in he same universe is WEIRD. That’s why people are confused and complaining. This literally feels like a troll by marvel.
People were saying that Mads Mikkelsen was wasted as the villain in Dr Strange because it meant he wouldn't get to play Doom, because the MCU would kever use an actor twice...
I never considered Mads Mikkelsen for the role, because Marvel didn't own Dr. Doom when Doctor Strange was released. But apparently they met with Mads when casting Doom.
They fucking waste a lot of actors talent. Christian Bale, Michael Douglas, Idris Elba, etc. They just throw $20,000,000 paychecks at them & they say yes. They’ve been trying to get Keanu Reeves for years but he’s made it 100% clear he’s not in showbusiness just for the money.
I don't think we needed RDJ back. Partially because i wish RDJ would do more drama work like "The Judge." but mostly because i think the biggest issue with the MCU has become the scale. After Endgame, they sould gave scaled back again and built back up to another peak, not trying to keep building on the same mountain.
Hmm. The RDJ carrot has been dangling for some time. I think they waited too long to bring back RDJ. He was always going to come back. He's an actor. At this point...he's an "old school" actor. To stay relevant, why not come back into the zeitgeist with another Marvel project as another character?. My absolute favorite RDJ movie is an obscure crime drama 80s movie with James Woods called True Believer. Take a look. Let the man cook. Marvel knows and I know that curiosity will bring butts in theater seat.
Really wish they hadn't announced the actor at all and just kept the mask on with Downey doing a voice behind the mask. Would have made the eventual RDJ reveal have serious surprise factor to it.
They would never hire RDJ for 100m dollars to have his casting be a suprise voice role. He is only worth casting if they can bring in casual viewers. That won't haooen without massive marketing.
100% in agreement they really ruined the surprised, but I also don't blame them considering they understand that people are viewing the MCU going in a downward spiral, and so they elected to reveal RDJ to get the normies to go "WE ARE SO BACK BOYS!" and garner more interest in Marvel's future MCU works.
@@CaptainEffort did someone tell you if you do PR for RDJ that he and kevin Feige will give you a blowie or a walk on role? Not sure what kind of lead paint you were ingesting along with the toys you shoved up your nose as a child, but I can tell you this; these guys don't need you simping for them lmao they don't care about you, or what you want or believe. They just want your money.
Julian McMahon has the chops, it was in an early stage of Comic Book movies that were catered to teenagers, he could be a variant od the Fox one. Or Jeffrey Dean Morgan, or a left field one, Ioan Gruffudd. Jared Padalecki comes to mind, Anthony Starr, Tom Hardy, Henry Cavill, Damien Lewis. Just my 2 cents.
@@user-bk3cp7kk1c We’re getting bullshit rather than the real established characters all the time. I’m tired of modern comics with low ratings being used as a scapegoat
@@user-bk3cp7kk1cthe comics argument never fails. It's the same story as when Marvel was going to release other movies and TV shows where fans were unsure about Marvel's decisions. And guess what, we were right every time.
As I've been saying, it's a hail Mary. They've cancelled so many shows and films, going back to 2-3 projects a year. With DP3 doing so well they had to make sure ComicCon was a success. Love it or hate it, people are talking abt the MCU again
Remember when people joked that the perfect replacement for Majors as Kang would be RDJ’s character in Tropic Thunder? I think Disney took it seriously.
Mark Hamill does play Darth Bane though. 🤪 Although I consider voice acting very different here, and Hamill is a great voice actor. So I don't see his Darth Bane as "Luke Skywalker but Evil."
@@forestskilbred9461it’s not about his acting ability. It’s about him already playing a pivotal role in a movie in the same universe as a different character
You know in your heart that he's just going to be some Tony Stark multiverse variant. There is zero chance they hire RDJ to play a completely different character. He's just going to be evil Iron Man from another dimension.
Honestly that wouls not be a bad idea, imagine the new avengers have to deal with evil tonis double and that, which would be great to have "avengers united" . But WTF dr doom, dr doom should never be iron man as character. even that time he filled ifn for dead tony i guess, but that was dr doom, not tony
Kevin Feige probably wanted Cillian Murphy, but he couldn't remember his name and asked for the guy who won an oscar for Oppenheimer. The trouble was that that applied to Robert Downey Jr too!
It seems like everyone who does want it only gets their comic book knowledge from other RUclips channels. I keep seeing people bashing others for not liking the idea solely because of one story where doom becomes iron man. This in reality is just a bad choice for the introduction of who is basically marvels biggest bad guy
@@clarkmichaels822 Cosmic Wonder is the worse How can that shill say he's a Dr Doom fan and is fixated on seeing MCU Peter's reaction to see a Tony Stark Doom and only brings up 2016 Tony Stark as Doom comic? Not even bring up that Victor was not only a colleague of Reed's but a best friend of his ? That Victor is not only a technology savant, he's a powerful sorcerer, a master martial artist, great military mind , Romani, and is a monarch leader of Lavataria? I am convinced him and other channels are on the MCU payroll and you don't get passes to their premieres unless you're being paid by them
@@lildominator2953you seem like some comic book dork zealot. 😂 RDJ brought about the MCU. He now ends the MCU for the soft reboot. It’s poetic. You haven’t any damn clue as to how this Doom will play out. And let’s be honest, dr doom is the most famous marvel baddie. He’s also the absolute dumbest in terms of personality. He’s literally Tony stark with magical powers and a hyper vain personality (thus the mask). Who else can play such an arrogant malignant narcissist?? RDJ.
Dr.Doom is a genius scientist, the dictator of his own country, and has a pretty good grasp on sorcery. Now I’m nervous that they’re just gonna relegate him to being an evil ironman.
But also… does that not literally just sound like a more extreme version of Tony Stark? Minus the sorcery. A genius scientist, and one that was more than okay with putting a suit of armor around the world, sacrificing people’s freedoms for their protections. Now… who does that sound like? Someone who would do something terrible, but with good intentions… oh yes ofc, it sounds like Dr Doom! I don’t mean to come across like an ass but c’mon guys, can you really not see it? A Tony Stark that went off the deep end, that is the embodiment of that side of him we started seeing in his last couple of movies? How interesting that would be to play off of the existing characters in the mcu? I mean hell, think of how Spider-man’s going to handle having to face a warped version of Tony, someone who was effectively a father figure to him. Plus it would immediately give emotional stakes to everyone involved. Fantastic Four, ofc, if they’ve been dealing with him until now, but now our main cast isn’t pitted up against some rando who just appeared out of nowhere. Edit: Not to mention, if you’re worried about not getting a more traditional Dr Doom, this doesn’t even mean that necessarily. With the multiverse they could just as easily pull an Iron Man 3, where we get this version of the character now, but later down the line we get a more traditional version.
@@CaptainEffort can you not see how boring that is? The "evil clone" is a tired stereotype for a reason. Because it's unoriginal, lacking in substance, and takes up space that could be utilized by an actual character, rather than just a relief drawing or carbon copy.
It's neither. It's a cynical move by Disney to try to cash on RDJ nostalgia to try to save the struggling brand of MCU. It's like bringing Jackman back to play Wolverine: safe and uninspired way to make money.
If it flops, the 'not a great plan' thing is soooooo predictable. I was trying to think of a comparison. If a batter in baseball had two strikes and then decided to put on a blindfold and just swing, they best hope they hit the ball to the fence. If they miss, they're complete morons. If they connect and hit a homerun, it's not necessarily a triumph of anything other than luck. Unless you were going to get fired anyway and didn't have a clue how to fix things, there's no reason to take on this level of risk. If Downey is onboard for multiple films, then the risk isn't contained.
@@victorcates9330 lol, that's a really pool comparison. They are not closing thheir eyes and wish for luck. A better comparison would be putting your best batter with a bat he bortowed from someone. He might be unfamiliar with that bat but he still has the heighest average of homeruns. Moreover, they brought back Russos so they are juat banking on the people that delivered. Is it a lack of fresh ideas? You betcha. But it hives them the heighest chance of success. Disney, as any big corp, is risk averse so you can be sure thwy are not gambling with that move.
A main issue I have with RDJ as straight up Victor Von Doom and not some Tony Stark variant is that I don't think he's here for the longhaul. I just kinda doubt he gonna play Doom for 10 years like he did Iron Man and instead will simply be killed in Secret Wars. This would be a total waste of Doom who could really shine as a long term recurring villain similar to Loki.
That's gossip, not fact. A Variety report, "someone whom we can't name said...". Total BS. Most of Downey's paychecks have always come from a percentage of gross profits.
@dasupertramp5855 They do both an advance and a residuals. It depends on how an agent negotiates. After the Black Widow fiasco with direct to streaming, I'd imagine more Disney actors will try to negotiate for a guaranteed sum. The MCU isn't the slam dunk it used to be.
@@dasupertramp5855. Bro it’s already been stated is income will be far more then the 80 million from two films that the russo brothers are getting. Which mean he is probably getting 100-120 million
It’s a catch 22. Have him be a normal Doom with no face time for Downey and the stunt-casting becomes worthless. Do him as a Tony variant and we miss out on a real Dr Doom.
I dislike the decision to cast RDJ as Doom, but it's not like he won't bring anything to the performance if we can't see his face. He's a terrific actor, and we still get his vocal emotion and physicality. Odds are he'll spend most of the movie with his mask on, maybe there will be a scene or 2 where we see his scar when he's alone and takes it off, then he'll have a big reveal moment in the climax. It's weird to say that RDJ will have no impact if we don't see his face.
Honestly him as evil iron man, that is not dr doom, would be way better recieved. But yeah, he only should ever play tony or stark variants in it. but an evil tony variant , and doom should notr be the same
You know it’s a move made more out of desperation because they could’ve easily his this until the movie came out. Instead, they obviously used this to get people excited and talking again before the new Avenger movies.
it's easy to say "they could have..." when they didn't, because if they had, everyone would be up in arms over Marvel taking too long to announce the actor, perhaps implying their ignorance or lack of film production ability as they do when things remain obfuscated. It's calculation, not desperation. And no, not all calculations are precise or accurate...clearly.
I think this is a sign of 2 things. Marvel been trying to recreate the endgame hype and don't know the right way to go about it. 2nd, they don't have much faith in the current roster of heroes so they bring back old actors to generate hype. RDJ is no one's first idea of doom casting and it obvious that this is a decision made to get people to talk about mcu again, aka this the red button for disney
Honestly. The writing and constantly allowing these fucking shitty people come in and demand it their way or high way “she hulk team can all fuck themselves”. Iron man was a B rated character in the comics for a long time…. Guardians of the galaxy wasn’t a large name compared to to X-men and fantastic four, captain America and Thor. So I mean.. they just had to faithfully write characters without agendas.
@@Dave102693 wouldn't know I don't have Disney+ which is another thing you can't go creating your multiverse of interconnected confusion across multiple medias and then expect people to consume it all, we are not bottomless pits of cash unlike them with their bright ideas, we don't all have streaming accounts, we don't go and watch all the films in the cinema its expensive, cinema is an occasional treat and theres plenty of other films competing for our money, theres an old saying keep it simple, stupid. people are going to check out if half the content/context is hidden behind a paywalls and they are being told they have to watch a load of films just to keep up with the story, this is why films used to stick to being trilogies and could all stand alone as a individually contained story line.
Wish we lived in a world where marvel would do a Darth Vader with Doom and have an intimidating body actor paired with a top tier voice actor play the role together.
There are only two options: either Doom is now variant Tony Stark, or he isn't and is just played by the same actor. Option one suggests Doom is reduced to Iron Man in green, and option two means this is all a bait and switch. Put another way: there are people who want to see a remotely comic accurate Dr. Doom, the sorcerer and technical genius, and there are people who want to see Tom Holland's face when he meets 'dark Mr. Stark'. The chance that both groups get what they want is now basically nil. This is Marvel jumping the Stark.
I wouldn’t say basically nil, if you know anything about variants you’d know that they, well, vary. Assuming that Marvel would make Dr Doom a green iron man is silly to say the least, obviously he’d be more Dr Doom than Iron Man, even as a Stark variant. After all, they’re honestly not that different as characters.
@@CaptainEffort "Assuming that Marvel would make Dr Doom a green iron man is silly to say the least" "After all, they’re honestly not that different as characters." 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 make it make sense. Do you actually stop to think about the things you say?
@@CaptainEffort ohhh you're ACTUALLY 14 years old, suddenly all your opinions make so much more sense. DW buddy, if you learn to expand your viewing selection, one day you'll see that there are better directors and better studios than the slop being churned out by marvel. Though I don't feel so bad for you now, it's obvious just a lack of experience and chances to expand your knowledge, rather than complete ignorance and misguided attempts to create this vapid, myopic worldview of film that you have.
Nah, it's more like Marvel is desperately trying to grasp at any straw including paying loads to veterans in hopes they save their MCU profit margins. RDJ can get work in pretty much anything after his cinema redemption through Iron Man and getting an Oscar for Oppenheimer, he didn't need to come back to Marvel for the money, he likely just enjoyed it enough and Disney made it worth his while. Bros got everything he needs, a wife, kids, a big ol house. And he's not spending it frivolously these days like he used to when he fell from acting grace a while back.
And I would bet that this Tony variant will die in Secret Wars (because there's nowhere to go but down from there as far as villainous acheivments go), and then they'll introduce a proper Doom who's native to the main MCU in the new status quo that follows. It could very well still blow up in their face, but I don't think it's an inherently had idea with no creative merit whatsoever. It's just going to come down to execution. A proper Doom is someone they'll want to make a Thanos level presence longterm, and I guarantee they won't be bringing Tony Doom back for anything past Secret Wars because the multiverse will have been wrapped by then, and they won't want to keep paying him a cool hundred mill and giving him control over the directors he works with for another decade of appearances. This is just a two or three movie thing, then we'll get a proper Doom moving forward. I'd bet on those odds. It's not the ideal scenario, but if it plays out like I think it will, I think it could be good depending on how well it's handled.
Oh yeah... still reeks of desperation though. Could work artistically. But also it smacks of trying to reassure investors. And honestly I'm bored of seeing the guy in the MCU. I want Kamala Kahn without the deadweight that is Capt Marvel.
@@Tyler_WI think that most people are looking at this from an emotional point instead of a possibilities one. Imagine what the likes of thor will go through seeing the face of their greatest ally as their new villain... Ultimately, as you said, the writing will make or break this (as it always does) Also one last thing, if we look at what we DO know about the announcement, we have Feige, The Russos, McFeely and RDJ all working together. The last time we got that, we got The winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity war and endgame.... So that a strong track record imo
Instead of a multiverse explanation, would it make sense for Doom to somehow take over MCU Tony Stark's dead body, essentially using his corpse as his 'mask' to toy with the Avengers? It ends with them beating Stark Doom, but the real Doom still accomplishes his goal which leads on to Secret Wars.
Oh, love this alternative! I don't know enough about the character to judge if that would make sense as a characteristic Dr. Doom plot, but regardless, super cool idea!
@@Brickbrickbrickinthewall I am not a reader of the comics, but apparently there is such a storyline where Doom dons the Iron Man suit. So its' not implausible that they are thinking of this.
imagine if they didnt even announce RDJ was playing doom, just keep it secret, then during the film the mask breaks or something and people can be like "i swear thats RDJ", that would have been a pretty good surprise. Kind of like they have blown their load already
That would have been a far better decision. If it was going to be RDJ, it would've been better to leave who plays Doom anonymous and leave the internet guessing until the reveal or until someone finally figures it out. Make the internet work for you instead of literally begging the internet to pay attention to you.
The reason they picked RDJ is to market tf out of him, using him for a "oh, that's him" would be a total waste. Makes much more money to be like "OMG RDJ IS BACK, BUY OUR NEXT MOVIE, WE SWEAR IT'S GOOD THIS TIME"
I can just picture RDJ showing up to the Audition as a joke. The Casting Directors all have a good laugh, and then some Disney Exec steps out from beneath the curtain shadows and starts to slow clap... Cartman asks RDJ to "Put a wig on, make it lamer!!... and we'll give you 80 Million dollars.."... RDJ scratches his head before his manager grabs his hand and signs on the dotted line.
I can’t imagine Disney paying 100+ million to have him wear a mask for most of the film, which is unfortunate. Not to undersell what Pedro pascal did in the Mandalorian but there are times in that show where it might as well not be him wearing the mask because there’s only so much emotion at times that you can convey through body language alone.
Lets be honest, Pedro wasn't in that suit 90% of the time, and wasn't that big of a star when they were making it. RDJ is, so for the amount of money they're paying him to even return they're going to milk his recognisability for all its worth.
Deadpool did a decent job of it, and I get really sick of seeing the actor's face 99% of the time when they are known for a mask/helmet as their classic look, just because movie folks think face time is so important in getting their money's worth.
Pedro wasn’t on set at all for season 3 of mando cause he was filming the last of us. He literally wasn’t even there he just did voice lines. I read an interview he did where he said exactly what you said, there’s only so much you can emote behind a mask.
Literally the only thing that works is "it's multiverse-Tony" and that would be awful... You can't just have the same guy, and no one going "hold on, wait a minute, isn't that..."
I mean it woulsnt be a bad concept to have evil tony, but whhy the heck bring dr doom in. I know why they wannted RDJ back for a mocvie and get fans back, but why the heck as dr doom, evil tony should be that , evil tony.
I agree with what you said about RDJ having the chops to pull off Doom, especially in a situation where he keeps the mask on the whole time, but, putting aside that as you also said Disney probably won't even do that, the issue is that introducing a masked character in a film almost necessitates that character being unmasked at the end. And if that were the case, it would have been way better to keep the whole thing a surprise, which again would defeat the purpose as you can't both bank on RDJ and not reveal he's playing the titular villain. I just don't see this working, but I'd love to be wrong.
Everything you said is exactly the conversations I’ve had on the feelings my group of friends and myself have about the casting. Even down to the keeping the mask on point. Great video as always
I feel that RDJ would've been better re-casted as Ultron: his character created Ultron, Ultron is an AI and could reconstruct his form to his liking, and RDJ as Ultron would've better integrated a new "big bad Thanos" replacement for Kang in Ultron having an established history with the Avengers, being the "progeny" of Stark and giving MCU Ultron a familial elements like he has in the comics with Hank Pym, and being easier to rationalize a sudden replacement with a plot like Ultron's base code still lingering unto the future, infecting Kang's systems and ultimately conquering the conqueror via his own technology. Plus it was RDJ Iron Man who saved the Marvel Universe and it would be narratively fitting to have an RDJ related thing be a threat not just to one, but all universes.
@@SW23252in a way they did, by removing every movie except D&W off the 2024 slate. They have tv shows coming up but they poisoned their own well and made them ignorable.
You do realize that Marvel invented that whole Nanotech helmet bullshit just so that they could keep showing their actors faces as much as possible in between action scenes, and often during them.
Guarantee he's gonna be a Tony Stark who didn't get kidnapped in Afghanistan and never grew as a person. Getting to explore a side of Tony he mever got to do before is the only reason why I can think he'd come back from a story perspective (he's a bit of a thespian, so you know that sort of thing matters to him). He'll probably die at the end of Secret Wars because there's nowhere to go but down for a villain who accomplishes something like he does in that story. This is why I think they weren't going to introduce a proper Doom so last minute and throw him into a story with nowhere for the character to go when it's over. They'll probably save a proper MCU Doom for afterwards so he can be an ongoing presence. You start start a character at their peak and go down from there, and that's exactly what you'd be doing by introducing a proper Doom so last minute right before the big finale of this (admittedly mediocre) multiverse saga.
@@Tyler_W Tony is an insanely scientific guy though. I don't think he'll want to dabble in sorcery and instead build on stuff that could serve as alternatives.
This reminds me so much of RTD and David Tennant's return to Doctor Who. Someone definitely decided they had reached the "break glass in case of emergency" point.
To make your most loved character into a villain in hopes that it will revitalize interest just makes enemies of people who loved that character in the first place
@@gulorful8488 That's actually the best description I've seen of my feelings towards the MCU. Endgame felt like the perfect sign-off for me, and I haven't really paid attention to it since. This announcement got a resounding "Meh" out of me. While I'm not hyped, I will watch the trailer for the movie, whenever that comes out. But I don't know if this is because RDJ is going to be in it, or because I'm curious to see the MCU's take on Dr. Doom, who was one of my favourite villains from the '90's Fantastic Four show, and a pretty interesting character in the 90's Spider-Man show, which my absolute favourite rendition of the character.
@@gulorful8488 Oh, and one more thing: the business logic behind this is actually quite sound, in theory. See, in marketing, you always want to target your existing customers first, because attracting new customers is much more difficult and expensive. With a new customer, you first need to grab their attention by buying ads they might see, you need to research and test out what kind of message would capture their attention effectively, you need to earn their trust... Meanwhile, past customers are much easier to convert. They already know you, they've trusted you enough to give you their money once, and some of them are already following your new product releases. All that to say, that signing RDJ does make some kind of business sense.
@@LinoWalker In my opinion, if you want another good sign-off, the Loki series is a good one. It locks the entire multiverse thing with a really neat bow tie.
RDJ coming out with his arms wide open is sooo weird to see from someone wearing a DOOM suit. I can’t think of a time I’ve ever seen DOOM stand like that.
The reason why the RDJ casting doesn't work for me is that I've never seen him exude the kind of imposing, domineering physical presence that Doom should. In the comic books Doom can walk into a room and immediately take command of the scene through his sheer presence alone. He's 6'2 out of his armor, 6'7 in it, and his body language radiates self-confidence and purposefulness. I can get behind the idea of RDJ's face being hidden behind the mask, and I can certainly see him be able to pull off Doom's dialogue, which often consists of sharp comments and intellectual browbeating, but I just don't buy a 5'8, relatively slender guy as the ruler of Latveria. There are other actors who I think are better suited to pull off Doom's physicality in addition to his superior intellect. Jon Hamm is a wonderful actor with great range as well, and Henry Cavill basically embodied the kind of aura Doom exudes when he played Geralt in the Witcher show.
RDJ is so talented I fully believe he could masterfully pull off The Latvarian King. But that’s just the thing, is that really what they’re gonna let him do. He’s literally played not just a one off Marvel character like some others, but THE MCU icon. But regardless it really just seems like they should’ve brought some new talent into the MCU. Josh Brolin was amazing as Thanos, I would’ve loved to see a new actor bringing in a performance of that caliber.
One thing I've seen no one point out, Is that we just got the return of chris evans as johnny storm, and they don't try and explain why him and steve rogers look the same. He's not a steve rogers variant or anything. They just look the same. I have a feeling that's what they will do. But hey none of us know anything.
That was only for the laughs (getting Evans for Johnny Storm) and it wasn't consequential. It was only because the old movies that OTHER studio (at that time) made, not even in the same universe. This thing with RDJ is completely different and... not so good, IMHO
instead of taking a chance like they did originally with RDJ they decided to desperately hold onto their golden goose not understanding it WILL tarnish
I'm absolutely with you there, as long as: - He keeps the mask on the whole time. - There's no Multiverse, it's really Tony Stark rubbish. Then I don't have a problem with the casting. But it definitely has a lot of potential to cause issues though.
There’s no way in Hell that RDJ is keeping the mask on the entire time. If he was, then they wouldn’t have revealed he’s back so early for a movie that’s not coming out till 2026! We know the biggest potential twist already…. That’s too deliberate for him not to show his face. Marvel can’t introduce their own versions of the X-men until the Fox era actors’ contracts expire, which is supposed to be after secret wars is released. Secret wars is rumored to be the swan song for the Fox era X-men, which is why they gave us so much nostalgia within that “ universe “ in Deadpool and Wolverine. It’s the preparation for the goodbye
I still think that this is the Tony Stark variant. Yes, it is a desperate move, yes, it is lazy, but unfortunately it will work. But there is one thing that can fix this situation with the wrong perception of the character played by RDJ if he is completely different from the Tony Stark we know from Earth-616. We have a precedent with Cable and Thanos. Both characters are from different universes, but are perceived completely differently with the same actor. If he's not like him at all and isn't just a "Broken Tony Stark" type of character then it would make sense.
It doesn’t work tho … RDJ isn’t Eastern European (something integral to doom and his character) and while you can say “but the multiverse” it just isn’t a good enough excuse for what will likely be a 90% maskless doom making shitty rdj quips which we’re getting a bit old during Ironman. But yeah maybe I’m judging too early but I don’t think it’s without merit very happy to be proven wrong
@@mrfilmreviewcriticman4110 Unfortunately I too believe you're right on the money. I'd love it if we were wrong, but given marvel's track record, it seems incredibly unlikely they WON'T do this.
But the Cable/Thanos thing is different. Unless they do some kind of Penguin thing DC did with Collin Farell, looking at the same face will feel odd, to say the least. Thanos physical appearance was completely different from Cable's. Yes, same actor, but for Thanos (besides motion capture) Brollin basically did voice acting
Thanos/Cable is not the same at all lol. Ignoring the Cable never appears in MCU since Deadpool is basically a self contained series, Thanos was a giant CGi purple guy. RDJ will def be showing his face and confuse everyone since any covering him up would be a waste of money
@anieltavares7991 Yeah I went and saw it the day after I commented. When I saw him I was like "Oh hey Johnny Storm." And then when it turned out to actually be him, I laughed way harder than I should have.
I don’t know how you manage to put your planned video aside for something completely unexpected so quickly, but you do it well. Great breakdown for something so bizarre!
5:20 "Dr Doom doesn't take his mask off" Oh come the fuck on, you know they aren't casting RDJ and paying him a fortune to hide his face. Even as Iron Man they pade it a gimmick for him to remove his helmet as often as possible
Exactly, “nanotech” has been Disneys excuse to nullify masks and give the most possible face time for years now, he will be showing his face as much as possible
Dude, him just being evil Tony Stark has nothing to do with his acting. His voice will still be the same. Even if he is masked the whole time and they change his voice, it's still going to be evil Tony Stark. YOU and I and EVERYONE will be cognizant that it is RDJ under the mask. It's a weird, desperate choice.
If Marvel learned anything this weekend with Deadpool is that people love nostalgia and seeing familiar faces, it's what brings in the money. So they can say it's serving the "multiverse concept" or whatever at the end of the day, modern audiences love a good throwback no matter how weird it is.
Lol, I don't think that company that started with making cartoon versions of classic fairy tales and now churns 9ne live action remake of said cartoon needed to learn that.
Wild that this whole universe and superhero renaissance came about because Marvel Studios took a risk with this guy on a property without a big following that most people hadn’t heard of it but gave it their all anyway, and it paid off as a huge success. Absolutely wild how they will probably never follow in their own footsteps again because they’re too big to let shareholders down by the idea of a risk possibly not paying off and so they’ll just keep making so-so at best content until somebody goes over there and burns the Disney/Marvel lot down.
In a way, it's probably a reference to the comics where Iron Lad is supposed to become a Kang variant. Also there was a comic where Doom and Tony switch bodies.
Agreed. It would've been a missed opportunity not to at least get Evans and Downey back for Secret Wars at least, but RDJ coming back this way was definitely... interesting.... I wouldn't be surprised if he also played an alternate Iron-Man as well, though.
@@ZachBobBob No, but at this point in time, I think Marvel should just stick with their decision. They’ve moved away from Kang being the big bad, and chickening out of their decision with RDJ wouldn't be a good look for them.
In my casting for doom will always be Cillian murphy. He has crazy acting range and just looks the part even without the mask. He’s got star power as well known actor that would have made the surprise just as fulfilling as RDJ
Karl Urban did not remove the helmet in Dredd and if they cast a stage actor with accent of a latvirian that would work. But sadly Disney Marvel is Desperate
Also not too many ppl are talking about it, but this is just a replacement for kang. This leaves a very strange spot narratively. The first half of multiverse saga is spent building up kang just for him to disappear and bring in doctor doom. So ant man post credit scene and loki lost a lot of weight in the overall story because now we know it's not going to go anywhere, at least for the near future. Also this means they will develop doom within this timeframe because secret wars is HIS story, which i dont know how well they can pull it off.
The only problem with him keeping the mask on would be how everyone would be waiting for him to reveal his identity but if he isn’t a stark variant then everyone will have bated breath for the whole movie
What did you think of the news??
Use link gift.nebula.tv/captainmidnight to give a year of Nebula to a friend for just $30. Or sign up yourself at nebula.tv/captainmidnight
I think it's complete desperation damn near the Mandarin all over again to me but worst
The first time i saw a post about it i did not believe it and was Just an fanpost lol
I think this was probably the only way they could have brought RDJ back without me being interested in the slightest. Grats to him for the paycheck, but I'm passing.
Not only is it embarrassing, it is desperate and just going to spoil RDJ's legacy when he leaves the MCU on a low, awkward note. He should have left things as they were.
One way I feel this could go well is if we discover the Doom Variant of Iron Man is a version of Tony stark who survived the snap at the end of Endgame, who didn’t die a hero and instead lived long enough to see himself become the villain. It would give a good reason why he wears the mask- to cover his scars from using the stones. It could also give meta commentary about how iron man and some things- like the MCU- should have been allowed to end instead of carrying on, ultimately accepting vision’s quote “A thing isn’t beautiful just because it lasts”.
when i first saw RDJ as Doom i thought it was a shitpost
same
Same
Same.
Same
Technically, it is.
I almost admire how this casting choice manages to feel “safe” and like a bizarre, left-field big swing at the same time.
It's like they said "RDJ, we need you back!" and he said "I'm not doing Iron Man, give me something else." and this is what they agreed on.
It may be a desperate move, I mean yeah they are getting desperate at this point...but honestly if they do it right I think it could work.
I don't think RDJ will return as THE doctor doom, but a doctor doom version of stark probably.
🎯
@memegazer the problem is three fold in my opinion when bringing in RDJ. Firsr it absolutely still takes some bite out of Iron Man's death, as his face is iconically associated with Iron Man. It's a marketing ploy, to be able to say they have RDJ again but try to act like they aren't bringing back an actor who will always be associated witht the main character they killed. Second, if you think about it, it would actually be far weirder if nobody ever mentions it's a Stark variant. Like you're sayin Thor or whoever sees that face and doesn't comment on it? That'd make no sense. I bring this up because i constantly see the argument that its a different character, but on a story telling level they have to make the Iron Man connection at least once. And lastly, I love RDJ but he has only one note. He plays the same character in most movies with slight variations. I don't think he'll pull off doom well on an acting level for that reason.
@@Ihelpertricks
I agree with all your points except that RDJ has no range.
I would agree if you say he gets typecast a lot.
But I have seen him in roles that demonstrate he has range.
Like his come back role in a scaner darkly.
Or heck his comedic performance in tropic thunder.
RDJ can act imo, I am confident he could do a stand alone compelling performance of victor von doom if they gave him a chance...I just don't think that is very likely bc of the reason you have pointed out.
Somehow Robert Downey Jr returned.
Sick profile picture haha!
Wait do we believe this?
“What did it cost?”
Everything.
Wait - does he fly now?
If doctor strange comes back recognizes him, and calls him Tony; just for him to say, “my name is victor Vaughn doom ”. I would pay to see that
I remember years ago people were afraid Doom would just be another scientist who was pissed off at Tony. Nobody expected he would literally be Tony.
Wich is even worst
@@Lance-ro5tidude go watch Agatha then 😅 they cast one of the best actor available in the industry who literally build the MCU and you’re complaining 🤣 it’s hilarious how you guys are never happy it’s an actor they play different roles every year but coming back in the MCU is too much ?!??!?
@@Paulin-pw5jx how much did Bob Iger pay you
@@Paulin-pw5jxdude having iron man play Dr doom in he same universe is WEIRD. That’s why people are confused and complaining. This literally feels like a troll by marvel.
@@Paulin-pw5jx🥴🤒💩🧠
People were saying that Mads Mikkelsen was wasted as the villain in Dr Strange because it meant he wouldn't get to play Doom, because the MCU would kever use an actor twice...
I never considered Mads Mikkelsen for the role, because Marvel didn't own Dr. Doom when Doctor Strange was released.
But apparently they met with Mads when casting Doom.
@@stevesteiner7220no one asked u
@@finbigger8505, nobody asked for you to speak
@@finbigger8505it’s a public comment section. Your permission isn’t required
They fucking waste a lot of actors talent. Christian Bale, Michael Douglas, Idris Elba, etc. They just throw $20,000,000 paychecks at them & they say yes. They’ve been trying to get Keanu Reeves for years but he’s made it 100% clear he’s not in showbusiness just for the money.
I don't think we needed RDJ back. Partially because i wish RDJ would do more drama work like "The Judge." but mostly because i think the biggest issue with the MCU has become the scale. After Endgame, they sould gave scaled back again and built back up to another peak, not trying to keep building on the same mountain.
Hmm. The RDJ carrot has been dangling for some time. I think they waited too long to bring back RDJ. He was always going to come back.
He's an actor. At this point...he's an "old school" actor. To stay relevant, why not come back into the zeitgeist with another Marvel project as another character?.
My absolute favorite RDJ movie is an obscure crime drama 80s movie with James Woods called True Believer. Take a look.
Let the man cook. Marvel knows and I know that curiosity will bring butts in theater seat.
@@Cheezpopcornmost of the mcu fanbase is super toxic. I can’t wait to see RDJ as dr doom!
@@SpaceGhost2733 Toxic just means "stop disliking what I like!" nowadays, huh?
@@SpaceGhost2733but literally everyone meeting him would be like "Tony you are Doomsday ?" 😮 In the movie
Totally forgot fury had a tv show
Really wish they hadn't announced the actor at all and just kept the mask on with Downey doing a voice behind the mask. Would have made the eventual RDJ reveal have serious surprise factor to it.
Now I'm pissed.. that would've been special....
Exactly. Like they did for Toby Maguire. It's the announcement that makes it seem desperate
They would never hire RDJ for 100m dollars to have his casting be a suprise voice role. He is only worth casting if they can bring in casual viewers. That won't haooen without massive marketing.
you dont pay $80 million dollars for that secret.
100% in agreement they really ruined the surprised, but I also don't blame them considering they understand that people are viewing the MCU going in a downward spiral, and so they elected to reveal RDJ to get the normies to go "WE ARE SO BACK BOYS!" and garner more interest in Marvel's future MCU works.
There are so many actors out there, and yet we cast RDJ as Doctor Doom.
Right and the paycheck he’s receiving is probably crazy
If he’s a variant then yeah, I would hope so
@@CaptainEffort did someone tell you if you do PR for RDJ that he and kevin Feige will give you a blowie or a walk on role? Not sure what kind of lead paint you were ingesting along with the toys you shoved up your nose as a child, but I can tell you this; these guys don't need you simping for them lmao they don't care about you, or what you want or believe. They just want your money.
Julian McMahon has the chops, it was in an early stage of Comic Book movies that were catered to teenagers, he could be a variant od the Fox one. Or Jeffrey Dean Morgan, or a left field one, Ioan Gruffudd. Jared Padalecki comes to mind, Anthony Starr, Tom Hardy, Henry Cavill, Damien Lewis. Just my 2 cents.
@@theboy1625report from today stated he’s getting $100 mil for EACH MOVIE! 😲
I find it so hard to believe that people at Marvel genuinely think this is a good idea.
Not surprised. If they made she hulk they'd give anything a try.
Lol @@metalheadblues
This has happened in the comics multiple times. If we can get the audience to believe in a talking raccoon and tree they can believe in anything
@@user-bk3cp7kk1c We’re getting bullshit rather than the real established characters all the time. I’m tired of modern comics with low ratings being used as a scapegoat
@@user-bk3cp7kk1cthe comics argument never fails. It's the same story as when Marvel was going to release other movies and TV shows where fans were unsure about Marvel's decisions. And guess what, we were right every time.
Feige had 2 ‘in case of emergency, break glass’ options in Doom and RDJ, and he used both
And they will fail again if they continue to pander to identity politics and wokeness
As I've been saying, it's a hail Mary. They've cancelled so many shows and films, going back to 2-3 projects a year. With DP3 doing so well they had to make sure ComicCon was a success. Love it or hate it, people are talking abt the MCU again
Forgot what other videos I saw this comment on
@@benallen9796
Unfortunately... you're right. That's what I fear for the future.
Remember when people joked that the perfect replacement for Majors as Kang would be RDJ’s character in Tropic Thunder?
I think Disney took it seriously.
100%
RDJ and Howling Monkey Film Festival recipient Kirk Lazarus are two different people, bro
@@jojijoestar7233 Sorry, my bad.
"Wait, what do you mean you people? 🧐"
@@jojijoestar7233so what you’re saying is, there’s still a chance?
RDJ Doctor Doom be like: “I hate you 3000”
*Kills his kid*
Seen this comment like fifty times already
That’s so funny
Cringe
Ha ha heard that joke before 😒
Would be like casting Harrison Ford to play Emperor Palpatine
More like Luke skywalker. He can be transformative in roles and is the main character
Mark Hamill does play Darth Bane though. 🤪
Although I consider voice acting very different here, and Hamill is a great voice actor. So I don't see his Darth Bane as "Luke Skywalker but Evil."
Y’all are ignorant as fuck
I think he's a more flexible actor than ford, to his credit.
@@forestskilbred9461it’s not about his acting ability. It’s about him already playing a pivotal role in a movie in the same universe as a different character
You know in your heart that he's just going to be some Tony Stark multiverse variant. There is zero chance they hire RDJ to play a completely different character. He's just going to be evil Iron Man from another dimension.
Honestly that wouls not be a bad idea, imagine the new avengers have to deal with evil tonis double and that, which would be great to have "avengers united" .
But WTF dr doom, dr doom should never be iron man as character. even that time he filled ifn for dead tony i guess, but that was dr doom, not tony
RDJ is a great actor we can’t just assume he’s playing”iron man but evil” he’s playing doom and he’ll obviously put a different spin on that
@@dictatormom7784 he might be capable of that but will Disney allow it?
Good question, I agree with what this vid was saying, I have hope it’ll work
I would have it being the Superior Iron Man
Kevin Feige probably wanted Cillian Murphy, but he couldn't remember his name and asked for the guy who won an oscar for Oppenheimer. The trouble was that that applied to Robert Downey Jr too!
Cillian would’ve killed it as Doom!
@@CollegeBallYouknow I FUCKING KNOW RIGHT!!!
Oh this makes sense
I appreciate that A LOT of the internet is not really as on board with this news as Disney thought everybody would be
It seems like everyone who does want it only gets their comic book knowledge from other RUclips channels. I keep seeing people bashing others for not liking the idea solely because of one story where doom becomes iron man. This in reality is just a bad choice for the introduction of who is basically marvels biggest bad guy
That's partially because the internet is a herd of sheep where people just follow the main opinion.
@@clarkmichaels822 Cosmic Wonder is the worse
How can that shill say he's a Dr Doom fan and is fixated on seeing MCU Peter's reaction to see a Tony Stark Doom and only brings up 2016 Tony Stark as Doom comic?
Not even bring up that Victor was not only a colleague of Reed's but a best friend of his ?
That Victor is not only a technology savant, he's a powerful sorcerer, a master martial artist, great military mind , Romani, and is a monarch leader of Lavataria?
I am convinced him and other channels are on the MCU payroll and you don't get passes to their premieres unless you're being paid by them
@@lildominator2953you seem like some comic book dork zealot. 😂 RDJ brought about the MCU. He now ends the MCU for the soft reboot. It’s poetic. You haven’t any damn clue as to how this Doom will play out. And let’s be honest, dr doom is the most famous marvel baddie. He’s also the absolute dumbest in terms of personality. He’s literally Tony stark with magical powers and a hyper vain personality (thus the mask). Who else can play such an arrogant malignant narcissist?? RDJ.
@@lildominator2953wrong
Dr.Doom is a genius scientist, the dictator of his own country, and has a pretty good grasp on sorcery. Now I’m nervous that they’re just gonna relegate him to being an evil ironman.
Same with me.
But also… does that not literally just sound like a more extreme version of Tony Stark? Minus the sorcery.
A genius scientist, and one that was more than okay with putting a suit of armor around the world, sacrificing people’s freedoms for their protections.
Now… who does that sound like? Someone who would do something terrible, but with good intentions… oh yes ofc, it sounds like Dr Doom!
I don’t mean to come across like an ass but c’mon guys, can you really not see it? A Tony Stark that went off the deep end, that is the embodiment of that side of him we started seeing in his last couple of movies? How interesting that would be to play off of the existing characters in the mcu? I mean hell, think of how Spider-man’s going to handle having to face a warped version of Tony, someone who was effectively a father figure to him.
Plus it would immediately give emotional stakes to everyone involved. Fantastic Four, ofc, if they’ve been dealing with him until now, but now our main cast isn’t pitted up against some rando who just appeared out of nowhere.
Edit: Not to mention, if you’re worried about not getting a more traditional Dr Doom, this doesn’t even mean that necessarily. With the multiverse they could just as easily pull an Iron Man 3, where we get this version of the character now, but later down the line we get a more traditional version.
@@CaptainEffort
I ain’t reading all that yap, bud
@@CaptainEffort can you not see how boring that is? The "evil clone" is a tired stereotype for a reason. Because it's unoriginal, lacking in substance, and takes up space that could be utilized by an actual character, rather than just a relief drawing or carbon copy.
@@anubusxpoor
I saw someone describe this as "either the most genius or most stupid decision they've ever made with no in-between" and I think I agree with that
It's neither. It's a cynical move by Disney to try to cash on RDJ nostalgia to try to save the struggling brand of MCU. It's like bringing Jackman back to play Wolverine: safe and uninspired way to make money.
If it flops, the 'not a great plan' thing is soooooo predictable. I was trying to think of a comparison. If a batter in baseball had two strikes and then decided to put on a blindfold and just swing, they best hope they hit the ball to the fence. If they miss, they're complete morons. If they connect and hit a homerun, it's not necessarily a triumph of anything other than luck.
Unless you were going to get fired anyway and didn't have a clue how to fix things, there's no reason to take on this level of risk. If Downey is onboard for multiple films, then the risk isn't contained.
@@sathrielsatanson666it’s more like bringing Hugh jackman back to play doomsday
@@victorcates9330 lol, that's a really pool comparison. They are not closing thheir eyes and wish for luck. A better comparison would be putting your best batter with a bat he bortowed from someone. He might be unfamiliar with that bat but he still has the heighest average of homeruns.
Moreover, they brought back Russos so they are juat banking on the people that delivered. Is it a lack of fresh ideas? You betcha. But it hives them the heighest chance of success. Disney, as any big corp, is risk averse so you can be sure thwy are not gambling with that move.
The question isn’t whether the acting will be good but rather will the writing be good
Like finding a way to revive Tony Stark but he doesn’t regain his memory of who he is but is just smart and rich and decided to be a bad guy?
@@SRT_DRE somehow Tony stark returned 😂😂
@@SRT_DREor they can get back to the comics where they switched their minds
A main issue I have with RDJ as straight up Victor Von Doom and not some Tony Stark variant is that I don't think he's here for the longhaul. I just kinda doubt he gonna play Doom for 10 years like he did Iron Man and instead will simply be killed in Secret Wars. This would be a total waste of Doom who could really shine as a long term recurring villain similar to Loki.
RDJ alone is making $100 Million off this role, which is more than the budget of most entire movies.
That's gossip, not fact. A Variety report, "someone whom we can't name said...". Total BS. Most of Downey's paychecks have always come from a percentage of gross profits.
@@dasupertramp5855 definitely more than endgame paycheck, which was 75 mil
That's the budget of Oppenheimer
@dasupertramp5855 They do both an advance and a residuals. It depends on how an agent negotiates. After the Black Widow fiasco with direct to streaming, I'd imagine more Disney actors will try to negotiate for a guaranteed sum. The MCU isn't the slam dunk it used to be.
@@dasupertramp5855. Bro it’s already been stated is income will be far more then the 80 million from two films that the russo brothers are getting. Which mean he is probably getting 100-120 million
Deadpool better grab his shovel…..cause he’s got another grave to dig up
Now, with figurative dessacration!
@@Martcapt knowing him, he’d try the literal option too😂
It’s a catch 22. Have him be a normal Doom with no face time for Downey and the stunt-casting becomes worthless. Do him as a Tony variant and we miss out on a real Dr Doom.
Or more aptly, a lose-lose
But have you considered that RDJ needs a new swimming pool?
@@maxburrill6192 a new private island at this point hahaha
Thats no22
I dislike the decision to cast RDJ as Doom, but it's not like he won't bring anything to the performance if we can't see his face. He's a terrific actor, and we still get his vocal emotion and physicality. Odds are he'll spend most of the movie with his mask on, maybe there will be a scene or 2 where we see his scar when he's alone and takes it off, then he'll have a big reveal moment in the climax. It's weird to say that RDJ will have no impact if we don't see his face.
My immersion would drop dead if his face appeared in the Marvel universe as anyone other than Iron Man.
Honestly him as evil iron man, that is not dr doom, would be way better recieved. But yeah, he only should ever play tony or stark variants in it. but an evil tony variant , and doom should notr be the same
You know it’s a move made more out of desperation because they could’ve easily his this until the movie came out. Instead, they obviously used this to get people excited and talking again before the new Avenger movies.
it's easy to say "they could have..." when they didn't, because if they had, everyone would be up in arms over Marvel taking too long to announce the actor, perhaps implying their ignorance or lack of film production ability as they do when things remain obfuscated. It's calculation, not desperation. And no, not all calculations are precise or accurate...clearly.
I think this is a sign of 2 things. Marvel been trying to recreate the endgame hype and don't know the right way to go about it. 2nd, they don't have much faith in the current roster of heroes so they bring back old actors to generate hype. RDJ is no one's first idea of doom casting and it obvious that this is a decision made to get people to talk about mcu again, aka this the red button for disney
I think it shows a 3rd thing, they clearly have no idea why it got so popular in the first place.
Honestly. The writing and constantly allowing these fucking shitty people come in and demand it their way or high way “she hulk team can all fuck themselves”. Iron man was a B rated character in the comics for a long time…. Guardians of the galaxy wasn’t a large name compared to to X-men and fantastic four, captain America and Thor. So I mean.. they just had to faithfully write characters without agendas.
@@GreatSageSunWukongit’s obvious with the Disney+ shows
No Marvel castig choice has ever been anyone's first idea.
@@Dave102693 wouldn't know I don't have Disney+ which is another thing you can't go creating your multiverse of interconnected confusion across multiple medias and then expect people to consume it all, we are not bottomless pits of cash unlike them with their bright ideas, we don't all have streaming accounts, we don't go and watch all the films in the cinema its expensive, cinema is an occasional treat and theres plenty of other films competing for our money, theres an old saying keep it simple, stupid. people are going to check out if half the content/context is hidden behind a paywalls and they are being told they have to watch a load of films just to keep up with the story, this is why films used to stick to being trilogies and could all stand alone as a individually contained story line.
It feels like more of a “what if” than a normal avenger movie
Palpatine in Rise Of Skywalker levels of desperation.
*Thanos:* "...Somehow Stark has returned."
At least still has the possibility of being good. That shit was just ass.
I personally think he should stay retired from it but I would rather this than him returning as some bullshit "alternate" Tony Stark lol
@@rgoodwynthis is an alternative Tony
they can get away with it if RDJ outperforms his iron man and they recast a good iron man that at least can get reintroduced to the avengers.
they shouldve done the Vader route, I want a big muscle-y imposing doom with a hard semi modulated voice
Ironically George Lucas based Darth Vader on Dr Doom even the origins of Doom
Henry Cavill was right there and they blew it
FR. Not to be rude, but are there enough shoe lifts in the world to make RDJ big enough to play Doom?
Fr I literally wanted a daddy doom but it's gone now 😡
Wish we lived in a world where marvel would do a Darth Vader with Doom and have an intimidating body actor paired with a top tier voice actor play the role together.
There are only two options: either Doom is now variant Tony Stark, or he isn't and is just played by the same actor. Option one suggests Doom is reduced to Iron Man in green, and option two means this is all a bait and switch. Put another way: there are people who want to see a remotely comic accurate Dr. Doom, the sorcerer and technical genius, and there are people who want to see Tom Holland's face when he meets 'dark Mr. Stark'. The chance that both groups get what they want is now basically nil.
This is Marvel jumping the Stark.
I wouldn’t say basically nil, if you know anything about variants you’d know that they, well, vary. Assuming that Marvel would make Dr Doom a green iron man is silly to say the least, obviously he’d be more Dr Doom than Iron Man, even as a Stark variant.
After all, they’re honestly not that different as characters.
@@CaptainEffort
"Assuming that Marvel would make Dr Doom a green iron man is silly to say the least"
"After all, they’re honestly not that different as characters."
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 make it make sense. Do you actually stop to think about the things you say?
@@kezia8027 Ah ofc, because two characters having similar personalities means they must use the same suit. Flawless logic.
@@CaptainEffort ohhh you're ACTUALLY 14 years old, suddenly all your opinions make so much more sense. DW buddy, if you learn to expand your viewing selection, one day you'll see that there are better directors and better studios than the slop being churned out by marvel. Though I don't feel so bad for you now, it's obvious just a lack of experience and chances to expand your knowledge, rather than complete ignorance and misguided attempts to create this vapid, myopic worldview of film that you have.
@kezia8027 Holy shit, please touch some grass my dude.
Seems like RDJ has expended his endgame paycheck
They always do.
Nah, it's more like Marvel is desperately trying to grasp at any straw including paying loads to veterans in hopes they save their MCU profit margins.
RDJ can get work in pretty much anything after his cinema redemption through Iron Man and getting an Oscar for Oppenheimer, he didn't need to come back to Marvel for the money, he likely just enjoyed it enough and Disney made it worth his while.
Bros got everything he needs, a wife, kids, a big ol house. And he's not spending it frivolously these days like he used to when he fell from acting grace a while back.
80 million
At this point he probably owns the studio.
They literally said: "as proof of the unimaginable possibilities of the multiverse" before introducing him. HE IS A VARIANT.
And I would bet that this Tony variant will die in Secret Wars (because there's nowhere to go but down from there as far as villainous acheivments go), and then they'll introduce a proper Doom who's native to the main MCU in the new status quo that follows. It could very well still blow up in their face, but I don't think it's an inherently had idea with no creative merit whatsoever. It's just going to come down to execution. A proper Doom is someone they'll want to make a Thanos level presence longterm, and I guarantee they won't be bringing Tony Doom back for anything past Secret Wars because the multiverse will have been wrapped by then, and they won't want to keep paying him a cool hundred mill and giving him control over the directors he works with for another decade of appearances. This is just a two or three movie thing, then we'll get a proper Doom moving forward. I'd bet on those odds. It's not the ideal scenario, but if it plays out like I think it will, I think it could be good depending on how well it's handled.
Which leads to another issue: Why are we getting a variant Doom instead of mainline Doom?
Why would you want your introduction to marvels biggest villain to be a variant. Especially with ff right around the corner
Oh yeah... still reeks of desperation though.
Could work artistically. But also it smacks of trying to reassure investors. And honestly I'm bored of seeing the guy in the MCU. I want Kamala Kahn without the deadweight that is Capt Marvel.
@@Tyler_WI think that most people are looking at this from an emotional point instead of a possibilities one. Imagine what the likes of thor will go through seeing the face of their greatest ally as their new villain...
Ultimately, as you said, the writing will make or break this (as it always does)
Also one last thing, if we look at what we DO know about the announcement, we have Feige, The Russos, McFeely and RDJ all working together. The last time we got that, we got The winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity war and endgame.... So that a strong track record imo
Instead of a multiverse explanation, would it make sense for Doom to somehow take over MCU Tony Stark's dead body, essentially using his corpse as his 'mask' to toy with the Avengers? It ends with them beating Stark Doom, but the real Doom still accomplishes his goal which leads on to Secret Wars.
Oh, love this alternative! I don't know enough about the character to judge if that would make sense as a characteristic Dr. Doom plot, but regardless, super cool idea!
That sounds dumb af lol
@@Brickbrickbrickinthewall I am not a reader of the comics, but apparently there is such a storyline where Doom dons the Iron Man suit. So its' not implausible that they are thinking of this.
Dr. Doom is supposed to look butt ugly under the mask. They can get RDJ with makeup to do this without making him a varient.
@@Incalorstill dumb
Next up: ScarlettJohansson returns as Galactus.
If its voice work, and she can pull it off, why not, way better than this here.
RDJ to Kevin Feige: You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me.
imagine if they didnt even announce RDJ was playing doom, just keep it secret, then during the film the mask breaks or something and people can be like "i swear thats RDJ", that would have been a pretty good surprise. Kind of like they have blown their load already
That would have been a far better decision. If it was going to be RDJ, it would've been better to leave who plays Doom anonymous and leave the internet guessing until the reveal or until someone finally figures it out. Make the internet work for you instead of literally begging the internet to pay attention to you.
The reason they picked RDJ is to market tf out of him, using him for a "oh, that's him" would be a total waste. Makes much more money to be like "OMG RDJ IS BACK, BUY OUR NEXT MOVIE, WE SWEAR IT'S GOOD THIS TIME"
No, in that case I couldn't fix my eyes after 270 degree eyeroll. And now I know just to stay away from this movie.
Kevin Feige pulled up with comically large burlap sacks with dollar signs on them
Sir Patrick Stewart is now Magneto
And ian mckellen wolverine
Tom Holland as Thanos.
Jessica Alba as Mole Man
I can just picture RDJ showing up to the Audition as a joke. The Casting Directors all have a good laugh, and then some Disney Exec steps out from beneath the curtain shadows and starts to slow clap... Cartman asks RDJ to "Put a wig on, make it lamer!!... and we'll give you 80 Million dollars.."... RDJ scratches his head before his manager grabs his hand and signs on the dotted line.
"I'm a dude playing a Doom disguised as another dude."
More like "I'm a Doom playing a Doom disguised as another Doom".
I can’t imagine Disney paying 100+ million to have him wear a mask for most of the film, which is unfortunate. Not to undersell what Pedro pascal did in the Mandalorian but there are times in that show where it might as well not be him wearing the mask because there’s only so much emotion at times that you can convey through body language alone.
Exactly … the paid for RDJ I’m sure they’re gonna use RDJ
Lets be honest, Pedro wasn't in that suit 90% of the time, and wasn't that big of a star when they were making it. RDJ is, so for the amount of money they're paying him to even return they're going to milk his recognisability for all its worth.
Deadpool did a decent job of it, and I get really sick of seeing the actor's face 99% of the time when they are known for a mask/helmet as their classic look, just because movie folks think face time is so important in getting their money's worth.
one difference is that you can actually see dr dooms eyes in the mask. a small difference but there is more potential there than a full head helmet
Pedro wasn’t on set at all for season 3 of mando cause he was filming the last of us. He literally wasn’t even there he just did voice lines. I read an interview he did where he said exactly what you said, there’s only so much you can emote behind a mask.
Literally the only thing that works is "it's multiverse-Tony" and that would be awful... You can't just have the same guy, and no one going "hold on, wait a minute, isn't that..."
I mean it woulsnt be a bad concept to have evil tony, but whhy the heck bring dr doom in. I know why they wannted RDJ back for a mocvie and get fans back, but why the heck as dr doom, evil tony should be that , evil tony.
I agree with what you said about RDJ having the chops to pull off Doom, especially in a situation where he keeps the mask on the whole time, but, putting aside that as you also said Disney probably won't even do that, the issue is that introducing a masked character in a film almost necessitates that character being unmasked at the end.
And if that were the case, it would have been way better to keep the whole thing a surprise, which again would defeat the purpose as you can't both bank on RDJ and not reveal he's playing the titular villain.
I just don't see this working, but I'd love to be wrong.
As long as he’s a completely different character and not just a Tony variant, I’m fine with it. I actually like it tbh.
Everything you said is exactly the conversations I’ve had on the feelings my group of friends and myself have about the casting. Even down to the keeping the mask on point. Great video as always
If he puts on the mask, and then there’s an inside-the-mask cam like for Iron Man, I’m gonna roll my eyes so hard.
I feel that RDJ would've been better re-casted as Ultron: his character created Ultron, Ultron is an AI and could reconstruct his form to his liking, and RDJ as Ultron would've better integrated a new "big bad Thanos" replacement for Kang in Ultron having an established history with the Avengers, being the "progeny" of Stark and giving MCU Ultron a familial elements like he has in the comics with Hank Pym, and being easier to rationalize a sudden replacement with a plot like Ultron's base code still lingering unto the future, infecting Kang's systems and ultimately conquering the conqueror via his own technology. Plus it was RDJ Iron Man who saved the Marvel Universe and it would be narratively fitting to have an RDJ related thing be a threat not just to one, but all universes.
Ultron sucks and avengers 2 is the worst one
@@supremetaco5 thats your opinion i actually really like 2
@@supremetaco5Ultron is super cool but Avengers 2 did them dirty
@@supremetaco5 Ultron was the moment I stopped watching the MCU as then I realised they were selling me the same movie 20x.
@@supremetaco5I agree Avengers 2 sucked. But with the way Ultron is, it could work to bring him back
Marvel is just baffling me at this point
Doctor Doomlitte.
It is.
They seriously need to take a hiatus.
@@SW23252in a way they did, by removing every movie except D&W off the 2024 slate. They have tv shows coming up but they poisoned their own well and made them ignorable.
Desperate people can go to any measures.
how? its comic accurate
You do realize that Marvel invented that whole Nanotech helmet bullshit just so that they could keep showing their actors faces as much as possible in between action scenes, and often during them.
Use characters that don’t have masks. Give the masked characters to actors that aren’t attention hogs. Problem solved.
Personally, I think this decision is absolutely bizarre and it's nothing if the destruction of RDJ's legacy as Iron Man itself.
Robert Downey Jr isn't gonna stop breathing Marvel until he's 90.
“Until you’re 90!!!”
"I understood that reference."
Captain America
@@ricardozkI don’t 😅
What is it about?
@@daniellins4114 Deadpool movie
Cute! You think Marvel is going to survive that long...
The thumbnail should have been "MARVEL gets Desperate"
MCU Doom after the explosion that scars his face: well that just happened
"You're probably wondering how I got in this situation"
@@BlokHeadAnim MCU Reed when reuniting with Doom after years: um....awkward!
Need mainline Doom, played by Cillian Murphy, to kill Stark-Doom at the end of Doomsday, setting up Murphy for Secret Wars... (half joking)
When you let the chat GPT to make decisions - this shit happens
Chat-GPT please make Disney license MF DOOM, for the literal DOOMSDAY 🙏🏿
Can you tell me how much time does it take for an MCU movie to come to Disney plus after its release
All caps when you spell his name
WORD
I was waiting for an MF DOOM reference
They gotta play at least one song right?
Hell no. After they cast RDJ id give him all lower case. Fawk this guy. I wanted Brian Cranston as Doom
Facts.
Spider-Man: "Tony?!"
Doctor Doom: "Who the hell is Tony?"
Who is Tony? My name is Guy Incognito
Guarantee he's gonna be a Tony Stark who didn't get kidnapped in Afghanistan and never grew as a person. Getting to explore a side of Tony he mever got to do before is the only reason why I can think he'd come back from a story perspective (he's a bit of a thespian, so you know that sort of thing matters to him). He'll probably die at the end of Secret Wars because there's nowhere to go but down for a villain who accomplishes something like he does in that story. This is why I think they weren't going to introduce a proper Doom so last minute and throw him into a story with nowhere for the character to go when it's over. They'll probably save a proper MCU Doom for afterwards so he can be an ongoing presence. You start start a character at their peak and go down from there, and that's exactly what you'd be doing by introducing a proper Doom so last minute right before the big finale of this (admittedly mediocre) multiverse saga.
I keep seeing this, and I get why people would think of that reaction but please don't have SpiderMan be able get Doom's mask off.
@@Tyler_W Tony is an insanely scientific guy though. I don't think he'll want to dabble in sorcery and instead build on stuff that could serve as alternatives.
@@Geheimnis-c2e do you comprehend Victor Von Doom is a sorcerer and even has been compared to Steve Strange as the best sorcerer on earth?
With the shades on and green suit, he looks like an awesome Mole Man.
You either die as a hero or live long enough to become the villain
Literally..
Yup!
This reminds me so much of RTD and David Tennant's return to Doctor Who. Someone definitely decided they had reached the "break glass in case of emergency" point.
Good point. In my case I learned to be careful what I wish for, because Tennant coming back wasn't what I'd hoped.
To make your most loved character into a villain in hopes that it will revitalize interest just makes enemies of people who loved that character in the first place
I would totally be down with a wrestling style heel turn of Ironman becoming the villain. But that shouldn't be him becoming Dr. Doom
The MCU has the potential to attract new Marvel fans but instead they’re trying to attract the fandom that has already left after Endgame.
@@gulorful8488 That's actually the best description I've seen of my feelings towards the MCU. Endgame felt like the perfect sign-off for me, and I haven't really paid attention to it since. This announcement got a resounding "Meh" out of me. While I'm not hyped, I will watch the trailer for the movie, whenever that comes out. But I don't know if this is because RDJ is going to be in it, or because I'm curious to see the MCU's take on Dr. Doom, who was one of my favourite villains from the '90's Fantastic Four show, and a pretty interesting character in the 90's Spider-Man show, which my absolute favourite rendition of the character.
@@gulorful8488 Oh, and one more thing: the business logic behind this is actually quite sound, in theory. See, in marketing, you always want to target your existing customers first, because attracting new customers is much more difficult and expensive. With a new customer, you first need to grab their attention by buying ads they might see, you need to research and test out what kind of message would capture their attention effectively, you need to earn their trust... Meanwhile, past customers are much easier to convert. They already know you, they've trusted you enough to give you their money once, and some of them are already following your new product releases.
All that to say, that signing RDJ does make some kind of business sense.
@@LinoWalker In my opinion, if you want another good sign-off, the Loki series is a good one. It locks the entire multiverse thing with a really neat bow tie.
RDJ coming out with his arms wide open is sooo weird to see from someone wearing a DOOM suit. I can’t think of a time I’ve ever seen DOOM stand like that.
I’m glad you pointed that out. It was too ‘iron man’ like. Doesn’t really give the doom vibe
The reason why the RDJ casting doesn't work for me is that I've never seen him exude the kind of imposing, domineering physical presence that Doom should. In the comic books Doom can walk into a room and immediately take command of the scene through his sheer presence alone. He's 6'2 out of his armor, 6'7 in it, and his body language radiates self-confidence and purposefulness.
I can get behind the idea of RDJ's face being hidden behind the mask, and I can certainly see him be able to pull off Doom's dialogue, which often consists of sharp comments and intellectual browbeating, but I just don't buy a 5'8, relatively slender guy as the ruler of Latveria. There are other actors who I think are better suited to pull off Doom's physicality in addition to his superior intellect. Jon Hamm is a wonderful actor with great range as well, and Henry Cavill basically embodied the kind of aura Doom exudes when he played Geralt in the Witcher show.
Exactly! Victor is a big dude lol. Muscular and tall. This casting is flat out horrible.
Avengers end game was basically the end game for marvel.
RDJ is so talented I fully believe he could masterfully pull off The Latvarian King.
But that’s just the thing, is that really what they’re gonna let him do. He’s literally played not just a one off Marvel character like some others, but THE MCU icon.
But regardless it really just seems like they should’ve brought some new talent into the MCU. Josh Brolin was amazing as Thanos, I would’ve loved to see a new actor bringing in a performance of that caliber.
One thing I've seen no one point out, Is that we just got the return of chris evans as johnny storm, and they don't try and explain why him and steve rogers look the same. He's not a steve rogers variant or anything. They just look the same. I have a feeling that's what they will do. But hey none of us know anything.
Michael B Jordan was also Johnny Storm before being Killmonger.
Bit different but I’m sure canonically you can make that argument
Downey's physical presence gives zero Dr. Doom vibes.
That was only for the laughs (getting Evans for Johnny Storm) and it wasn't consequential. It was only because the old movies that OTHER studio (at that time) made, not even in the same universe. This thing with RDJ is completely different and... not so good, IMHO
We know Marvel sucks now...
"There's only one beer left." - Robert Downey Jr.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
instead of taking a chance like they did originally with RDJ they decided to desperately hold onto their golden goose not understanding it WILL tarnish
One of the movie posters for Avengers Doomsday better look like MF DOOM's Doomsday album cover
I'm absolutely with you there, as long as:
- He keeps the mask on the whole time.
- There's no Multiverse, it's really Tony Stark rubbish.
Then I don't have a problem with the casting. But it definitely has a lot of potential to cause issues though.
There’s no way in Hell that RDJ is keeping the mask on the entire time. If he was, then they wouldn’t have revealed he’s back so early for a movie that’s not coming out till 2026! We know the biggest potential twist already…. That’s too deliberate for him not to show his face.
Marvel can’t introduce their own versions of the X-men until the Fox era actors’ contracts expire, which is supposed to be after secret wars is released. Secret wars is rumored to be the swan song for the Fox era X-men, which is why they gave us so much nostalgia within that “ universe “ in Deadpool and Wolverine. It’s the preparation for the goodbye
I still think that this is the Tony Stark variant. Yes, it is a desperate move, yes, it is lazy, but unfortunately it will work. But there is one thing that can fix this situation with the wrong perception of the character played by RDJ if he is completely different from the Tony Stark we know from Earth-616. We have a precedent with Cable and Thanos. Both characters are from different universes, but are perceived completely differently with the same actor. If he's not like him at all and isn't just a "Broken Tony Stark" type of character then it would make sense.
It doesn’t work tho … RDJ isn’t Eastern European (something integral to doom and his character) and while you can say “but the multiverse” it just isn’t a good enough excuse for what will likely be a 90% maskless doom making shitty rdj quips which we’re getting a bit old during Ironman. But yeah maybe I’m judging too early but I don’t think it’s without merit very happy to be proven wrong
@@mrfilmreviewcriticman4110 Unfortunately I too believe you're right on the money. I'd love it if we were wrong, but given marvel's track record, it seems incredibly unlikely they WON'T do this.
what if this variant is going to succeed then the real doom comes in and stops him all because he is using his name.
But the Cable/Thanos thing is different. Unless they do some kind of Penguin thing DC did with Collin Farell, looking at the same face will feel odd, to say the least. Thanos physical appearance was completely different from Cable's. Yes, same actor, but for Thanos (besides motion capture) Brollin basically did voice acting
Thanos/Cable is not the same at all lol. Ignoring the Cable never appears in MCU since Deadpool is basically a self contained series, Thanos was a giant CGi purple guy. RDJ will def be showing his face and confuse everyone since any covering him up would be a waste of money
I completely forgot Chris Evans was Johnny Storm until now. I wonder if they'll bring him back.
Dies in deadpool 3
@anieltavares7991 Yeah I went and saw it the day after I commented. When I saw him I was like "Oh hey Johnny Storm." And then when it turned out to actually be him, I laughed way harder than I should have.
When the news hit I immediately thought of the first Judge Dredd movie and how Sly Stallone didn’t want to wear the helmet all the time…
Jonny Storm wasn't a cap variant. I think they could possibly treat him the same way, but it's such a bizarre decision either way.
I don’t know how you manage to put your planned video aside for something completely unexpected so quickly, but you do it well. Great breakdown for something so bizarre!
5:20 "Dr Doom doesn't take his mask off"
Oh come the fuck on, you know they aren't casting RDJ and paying him a fortune to hide his face.
Even as Iron Man they pade it a gimmick for him to remove his helmet as often as possible
Exactly, “nanotech” has been Disneys excuse to nullify masks and give the most possible face time for years now, he will be showing his face as much as possible
pretty funny that chris evans jumped from the fantastic four to the avengers, and downey is jumping from the avengers to the fantastic four.
Dude, him just being evil Tony Stark has nothing to do with his acting. His voice will still be the same. Even if he is masked the whole time and they change his voice, it's still going to be evil Tony Stark. YOU and I and EVERYONE will be cognizant that it is RDJ under the mask. It's a weird, desperate choice.
He'll probably have a latverian accent.
If Marvel learned anything this weekend with Deadpool is that people love nostalgia and seeing familiar faces, it's what brings in the money. So they can say it's serving the "multiverse concept" or whatever at the end of the day, modern audiences love a good throwback no matter how weird it is.
Lol, I don't think that company that started with making cartoon versions of classic fairy tales and now churns 9ne live action remake of said cartoon needed to learn that.
Can't wait for the Dr. Doom nanotech mask come off every 13 seconds so he can quip.
Wild that this whole universe and superhero renaissance came about because Marvel Studios took a risk with this guy on a property without a big following that most people hadn’t heard of it but gave it their all anyway, and it paid off as a huge success.
Absolutely wild how they will probably never follow in their own footsteps again because they’re too big to let shareholders down by the idea of a risk possibly not paying off and so they’ll just keep making so-so at best content until somebody goes over there and burns the Disney/Marvel lot down.
2:44 Yep, feels like another one of Shane Black's The Mandarin switcheroo, which Downey also cosigned with.
In a way, it's probably a reference to the comics where Iron Lad is supposed to become a Kang variant.
Also there was a comic where Doom and Tony switch bodies.
evil rdj doctor doom be like: “get me a hot dog”
Iron Man: I love you 3000
Dr. Doom: I hate you 3000
RDJ be like: uhm, so, how much money?
I just can't unsee him Iron-man. Its just going to be weird if Spider-man doesn't even recognise him.
The bottom line is, if they have a scene with Doom removing his mask, they fucked up. Downey included.
Doom's mask is going to be nano-tech like everyone's helmet in the MCU and will disappear and reappear whenever he wants
MCU doom is gonna suck big time
It works well enough for Iron-Man, but I hate how every character has this now. Things need more of a sense of physicality again.
I hate nanotech
It looks cheap and uninspired.
This is why I love the costumes in The Boys
I just hope RDJ added a lot of Ham to his diet in preparation for the role.
Yea doom is a big dude lol
I mean, RDJ coming back was honestly inevitable the moment the Multiverse Saga was realized. I saw it coming from a mile away.
Agreed. It would've been a missed opportunity not to at least get Evans and Downey back for Secret Wars at least, but RDJ coming back this way was definitely... interesting.... I wouldn't be surprised if he also played an alternate Iron-Man as well, though.
As Doom though?
@@ZachBobBob No, but at this point in time, I think Marvel should just stick with their decision. They’ve moved away from Kang being the big bad, and chickening out of their decision with RDJ wouldn't be a good look for them.
In my casting for doom will always be Cillian murphy. He has crazy acting range and just looks the part even without the mask. He’s got star power as well known actor that would have made the surprise just as fulfilling as RDJ
Karl Urban did not remove the helmet in Dredd and if they cast a stage actor with accent of a latvirian that would work. But sadly Disney Marvel is Desperate
I feel there will be future videos titled "They Have Learned Nothing".
I still think it’s some kinda ruse, a trick, a bamboozle of some sort.
Also not too many ppl are talking about it, but this is just a replacement for kang. This leaves a very strange spot narratively. The first half of multiverse saga is spent building up kang just for him to disappear and bring in doctor doom. So ant man post credit scene and loki lost a lot of weight in the overall story because now we know it's not going to go anywhere, at least for the near future. Also this means they will develop doom within this timeframe because secret wars is HIS story, which i dont know how well they can pull it off.
Have Kang die off screen like The Black Panthe did lol
@@Dave102693He died in real life genious.
@@ninjadanoite1560Yes, but the character died off screen, is what they're saying.
The only problem with him keeping the mask on would be how everyone would be waiting for him to reveal his identity but if he isn’t a stark variant then everyone will have bated breath for the whole movie
When Dr.Doom take off his mask and reveal it was RDJ, I wait for everyone laughing because it does look like a joke