Leaning into nostalgia, when done correctly like in Cobra Kai, is amazing. In that show, the writers found ways to let the legacy characters positively (or negatively, such as Terry Silver) impact the new characters and the plot in a thoughtful way. Leaning into nostalgia just for the sake of nostalgia and not introducing something more to the characters actually backfires more often than not, especially if it messes up the plot or doesn't move the plot or characters along. I think Marvel trying to rely almost exclusively on nostalgia is a huge mistake. Most of the time at Disney, it's just not done in a constructive manner.
No. To answer your question. Neither MoM or NWH were good movies The Illuminati were wasted in that movie and the Sinister 5 just didn’t work as enemies because of how forgettable most of them were
@@homielander5924 Sorry to burst your bubble man, but the Mcu isn't going anywhere anytime soon especially after the huge box office sucess of Deadpool and Wolverine.
@@Xzcvr Doesn't matter you don't need any justification, just ignore all of the weird shit they were doing in phase 4/5 and start building a narrative for a new saga
Dealers only exist because there is demand for it. So really we the fans are to blame for all this nostalgia lately. The studios are just following the demand we create.
You do realize Disney's been selling nostalgia for a literal century? Their biggest movies came out between the 40s-60s and the 90s. We only buy because they make a damn good drug.
you think youre saying something deep but its just sounds nice. this movie was excellent and handled its nostalgic callbacks in funny ways while also giving nearly every character an arc to go through. you dont gotta agree just because your youtuber has this opinion.
And it should. Disney is struggling financially in all business units. Parks attendance is down. Cable and linear tv are still at a crossroads as to the future. Theatrical has 2 hits (in about a month of each other) the last 2 years. Just wait until this weekend at D23. Everything will be IP that is proven for the rest of this decade.
I think it was a good last hurrah for the Fox movies. It represented all the movies that audiences loved and hated, and even the ones that never got off the ground with Gambit.
Problem is it won't be the last hurrah. Their plan is to just keep bringing back Hugh Jackman Wolverine for as long as possible, rather than recasting and doing a clean reboot
Imo nah. Said characters get less than 15 minutes of screen time with nearly less than ten lines of dialogue each. In Blade's case, mainly just repeating catchphrases from the Blade trilogy. Fantastic Four is especially given zero last hurrah. Human Torch eliminated very unceremoniously very quickly. Same with Sabertooth both for jokes that weren't even that funny. Compare this to No Way Home in how that treats its other universe characters, and it's no competition. I respect your opinion, but I felt the cameos were hollow. Still, at least RR got what he wanted
The reason Blade was in the movie is because the Blade film played a crucial role in the development of the MCU. It was released at a time when Hollywood had lost faith in comic book movies due to the disappointment of "Batman and Robin" and "Spawn". However, "Blade" was a tremendous success and rejuvenated Hollywood's interest in comic book adaptations. Ryan Reynolds including Blade in "Deadpool 3" is a tribute to the film that sparked a new era for Marvel movies.
Not to mention Reynolds co starred with Snipes in Blade Trinity. So the appearance of Wesley Snipes returing as Blade is another reunion as well for Ryan Reynolds apart from Hugh Jackman’s second billing as the main selling point.
The MCU was developed off the Marvel Comics series "The Ultimates"...that Blade movie had nothing to do with it. Ryan Reynolds put Blade in the movie because Ryan Reynolds was in Blade 3. That's it.
@@marshallartsentertainment3741not necessarily the MCU, but marvel at the time was broke, and the financial success of blade was able to save the company iirc. People get it mixed up, it didnt “save” the mcu or whatever, it saved marvel to a degree. Most people probably never realized it was a comic book movie to begin with
@@theorbitalone7283 Nope. Marvel would've survived without the release of that movie. It didn't "save" anything. To any degree. The MCU is here because of the success of the comics and is based off of the comics. That's it.
@marshallartsentertainment3741 If Marvel didn't sell the movie rights of it's most popular characters back the 90s they would have went under, THAT IS A FACT!!! And do you know why??? Because no one was buying comics back then dingleberry.
I think it's definitely a desperate move, but not because of Deadpool & Wolverine. They're too fresh to be the reason. I think it's a desperate move, because they have been losing money for the past years. No Way Home already proved Fans would go absolutely BERSERK for Nostalgia, and they're learning of people's thoughts after Endgame but getting the wrong reasons. RDJr as the Face of the MCU is essentially their best safe move, alongside how this Multiverse Saga can help bring stuff back. The Multiverse isn't a Mistake, but if the Multiverse was a Gun, Disney is the Toddler holding that Gun
Let's not beat around the bush, here. It's not necessarily that Disney and Marvel have a nostalgia addiction, they just have a money addiction (I think that's called greed?). It's the audiences that are addicted to nostalgia. Whether we like to admit it or not, the only reason studios keep pumping out nostalgia-bait and things like that is because WE KEEP WATCHING IT. Because people get hyped to see the actor from their childhood returning in a new movie, then go pay to see it, but then proceed to rag on the studio for being obsessed with nostalgia. My theory is that people get excited and pay money to see these things because they're excited to recapture their childhood experience, and then when it obviously doesn't hit the same, then they think the issue is that the studio is just relying on nostalgia. Disney doesn't have a nostalgia addiction, they're just the dealer, and as long as audiences continue to pay for nostalgia, the studios will keep selling them.
Between the over reliance on nostalgia combined with the return of RDJ and the Russo Bros, it feels like the writing’s on the wall: the MCU just CANNOT escape from getting caught in the shadow of Infinity War and Endgame. Now that they’re over, the franchise is turning towards nostalgia as a way to cover up the fact that they’ve run out of fresh ideas (not that this is always bad; the only movies post-Endgame that I liked were Far From Home, No Way Home, and GOTG Vol. 3) but overall it’s perfectly clear that the MCU since Endgame has been making more misses than hits and nostalgia is being used out of desperation for hits.
@@Meldrick-jv7sydude there is no “speak for yourself” here. The bottom line is that these companies are going to do what makes them the most money, and the fact that Disney keeps doing this with all of its major franchises should show you that clearly nostalgia is what is bringing in the money. It’s still not a good thing, but this is on the general audience for eating this shit up because at the end of the day these mega corporations are always gonna do what is the most profitable
I think that’s a broad simplification. When the MCU first started they began from scratch, created a rather obscure character into a multi-billion dollar movie franchise that has relied on before endgame on obscure or less fleshed out characters. It’s only recently that they’ve been betting on Nostalgi because every new character they bring in they treat as if they have to be at the same calibre of the avengers at the point of Endgame. Ironheart and The Eternals are prime examples of this. They can mask mediocre stories and failed character arch’s to be like “hey remember this guy!” As a distraction. So of course we’ll still eat it up but to say most of the onus is on us is false. We’re hungry for great takes and original stories. Look at the success of Fallout and House of the Dragon. It’s Disney’s inability to take risk and relying on the Nostalgia drug that’s causing this feedback loop. Not vice versa.
If you look back even in the past of Hollywood isn't the first time they did that. I had to remember you Return to Oz (1985) or the Psycho remake of the 90s ?
Hollywood doesn't have a nostalgia addiction, your typical movie-goer does. If people weren't into pointless reboots, uncalled-for-sequels they wouldn't lean into nostalgia bait as much as they do.
sucks dude. i actaully really enjoyed shang chi. i wasnt the biggest fan of the "big final battle" but i loved the smaller kung flu movie flavored scenes
There's usually a 20-year rule regarding nostalgia due to young people becoming adult consumers (ex: the 70s were nostalgic towards the 50s, the 80s towards the 60s, 90s towards 70s, and so on). Yet for the past 24+ years, the 80s has objectively taken hold of pop culture w/ no signs of slowing down. It was expected in the 2000s w/ the likes of GTA Vice City, VH1's "I Love the 80s" trilogy, Rock of Ages musical, Michael Bay's Transformers, Turtles Forever, Angry Video Game Nerd, etc... giving people their nostalgic fix. But while 90s & early 2000s nostalgia still existed in the 2010s & early 2020s respectively, the 80s has overtaken them completely: Stranger Things, Cobra Kai, GLOW, The Goldbergs, Bumblebee, Wonder Woman 1984, It Chapters 1 & 2, Ghostbusters: Afterlife, Top Gun: Maverick, etc...
@@Disconnect350 Agreed. Very typical MCU plot, just this time the plot tells you how typical it is, as if that makes it better. Bullseye did show up btw, I saw the costume. But he doesn't even remotely look like Collin. Those who see the cameo will know what i mean
Give it a couple of weeks and people will see this movie in another light. There is nothing in this movie other than "look characters you know and like".
@@Disconnect350AWESOME cheap cash grap! Not every movie has to be smart or move the universe somewhere. It was a simple popcorn flick with dirty jokes and fan service - exactly what it is supposed to be.
My problem with this nostalgia frenzy fans. This negative affects new takes/adaption or change to superhero movies. There is so much hate with negative hate for the new superman cos hes not henry cavil. It stops creativity and the audiences are constantly asking for EVERYONE to come back. I want new future takes for all heroes. We should respect the past and look for the future.
Marvel and DC fans have always been like this. It's an obsession with continuity and timelines which leads to characters never evolving or changing into something new and interesting.
Surprisingly james bond is the one franchise that seems to understand this. Unless they are secretly planning a movie where danile Craig, pierce brosnan and timothy Dalton all team up.
There’s nothing wrong with giving the fans what they want (nostalgia and all) as long as it serves a purpose. That’s why Tobey and Andrew’s returns were received incredibly well (other than the initial shock and awe nostalgia factor). They helped MCU Spider-Man mature, and truly learn what it means that with great power, comes great responsibility. It served as a necessary and important character arc, so Tom’s Spider-Man could fully become the beloved Spider-Man we know and love. Same thing’s happened with Deadpool and Wolverine. While they haven’t necessarily met any key players from the MCU just yet, they both served each other and allowed both characters to grow stronger through their bond. Wolverine taught Deadpool how to be a selfless hero. Deadpool helped Wolverine regain his confidence, and embrace the legacy (of his old friends) that’s signified by his suit. They all had a purpose of returning. Not only for the fans, but for the story and characters to grow. Blade and Elektra were kinda given endings, and we got to officially say goodbye to them. Laura is now a member of the MCU. Gambit made a name for himself, and with any luck he’ll also become a permanent resident in the MCU. Even Johnny Storm got an ending, as morbid as it was. They all served a purpose. That’s why they work, and the fans are embracing the nostalgia train.
For this movie i think deadpool worked bec he is a fourth wall breaking character. He wants to see those moments/cameo as much as everyone else. He IS the hype man. It make the most sense DP is the one give the fans what they wanted.
No Way Home and Deadpool vs Wolverine do a great job of respecting the past without ruining the things we loved about them which is what the fans want,the bigger problem is the lack of care they put into everything else, I think that can be explained since Fox and Sony produced No Way Home and DAW and not the in house Marvel studios by Kevin Feige.
Ironically I think that's what is going to be the undoing of secret wars. They are teaching audiences "keep watching because characters from those older movies might come back in surprise roles!" Its no longer "keep watching because we are building up to a bigger story." They are selling these movies on nostalgia alone. And now everyone expects secret wars to have EVERYONE in it and there is NO WAY they can do that. They can't pay everyone that much money. And the people who do come back might get 5 seconds of action in a big fight sequence and nothing else. Just like in comic crossovers your favorite characters will get sidelined. If they make the focus on all 3 spider-men and introduce Mile's morales then that is gonna have to come at the expense of time spent with old x-men cast and old avengers cast. They have bitten off more than they can chew. They are gonna try to please everyone and it's gonna collapse because it's impossible to do that.
@@galactic85 Maybe, but I feel it's still possible. Avengers 1 didn't seem possible way back when, but it happened. Same with Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame. Characters that showed up in Endgame barely had any screen time and didn't even have any dialogue at all, but the movie still did incredibly well. I think what this means is that if new viewers want to have context on these cameo characters, they'll just need to add the non-MCU films to the list of "MCU homework" that I feel some people are already used to doing. But I guess it also depends if the Disney feels it's worth dumping all that money depending on the state of the MCU when they get to Secret Wars. I don't feel confident as of right now, but it's still possible.
@@galactic85yea but infinity war and end game showed big team movies can work and having cameos in secretcwars can be a good thing. You also have to remember this is most likely only going to be a phase 5 thing with the multiverse its msrvels only real chance of doing any of these cameos. Once secret wars is over we are probably not seeing any more cameos or stleast not to the scale of spiderman no way home or deadpool 3.
@@galactic85 Secret Wars makes Infinity War and End Game look like child's play, the problem is Secret Wars is the quintessential multiverse story, and it's arguably the best story Marvel has ever written. It will have probably over 80 characters in it, and it will end the multiverse, but the problem is people are tired of the multiverse now, but Dr. Doom is the biggest part of the multiverse saga so basically we're going to just have to watch 2 more Avenger's multiverse movies that will be insanely bloated, but then after Secret Wars there's a soft reboot where there's only 1 universe now and no more multiverses. Secret Wars has to happen though it was always inevitable, especially since we're in the multiverse saga right now.
The thing i hate the most about Disney’s nostalgia hit is like when they’re their stupid cameos, there’s like a pause for the audience to cheer. It makes it so annoying watching it alone and just awkward. Just because “its the thing you like” doesn’t make it good.
It’s even funnier when you’re in a showing that’s barely packed because there’s five of them going on at roughly the same time at your local multiplex and so nobody is really clapping. Happened to me with Doctor Strange
@@YOGI-kb9tg Yeah in the 90's Marvel was going bankrupt people stopped buying comics and they had to start selling their IP's like Spiderman, and making Blade and X-Men basically saved the entire company.
@@2120musicloverthe Blade film wasn’t made by marvel; blade was just a marvel character. Same way tobey maguires and Andrew Garfield’s spider man were both apart of Sony
well people love crossovers and cameos etc galore hence fanboys screaming about avengers vs xmen when there is barely an avengers and that is to say nothing of mutants or xmen or even being invested in them whatsoever or respecting the franchise for what it is and could be then just viewing them as a worthwhile crossover with the avengers.
people in the comments really just proving what op said to be true lmao, this movie made over a billion dollars and haters keep making up excuses for why giving the fans what they want suddenly means "gutless fanservice". Every past marvel movie did something similar and it bombed yet D&W succeeds, stop pretending like there isn't a reason for that
I know its unrelated but with this nostalgia thing, I just want a Batman Beyond movie with Michael Keaton as old Bruce, he deserved better than that flash final fight
I would love that, I just don't know if WB will ever do it because unlike Marvel Studios (for the most part) they seem to do the opposite of what some fans want.
From Marvel's perspective, "moving forward" has been a series of harsh reminders that newer characters don't have the cachet of the old ones. I don't disagree that there's a vast reservoir of comic content much-beloved by comics fans the MCU has left un-touched, but I can't help but wonder if, presently, the MCU possesses talent capable of transitioning it to the big screen, let alone the courage to bring new projects into being that aren't covered in "sure bet" stickers, so to speak.
The problem for me feels more that the new characters are introduced so fast that they feel underdeveloped. People liked Shang chi because it focused on his character and developed who he was. Cramming Monica rambeaus origin into wandavision was just super awkward. Also a lot if their new characters are being Introduced on Disney plus. People have limited money for streaming services and at least when marcek was only making movies you just had to go to the theater to see the next chapter. Introducing characters like Ms marvel and moon knight on Disney plus automatically shrunk the audience and gave fewer people the chance to become fans.
@@galactic85Yes, not to mention the overproduction of movies and tv shows, overworking vfx artists and rushing projects out with terrible writing and underdeveloped characters. Which is why moving forward from Secret Wars, they should hammer down and focus on quality above quantity. With Deadpool & Wolverine they should make a lot of profit and offset the debts from previous projects. That way, when making their next movies or shows, they should really be mindful of budgets and properly set production schedules so they don’t end up wasting money on 100s of reshoots in post production.
@@Renoistic Not impossible, but it's a hard sell. The Guardians taking off gave them the mistaken impression they could sell any C List character as big star but it turns out they just got lucky with them and their attempts to make Carol, or Kamala, or Echo or She Hulk big things are falling flat.
I just think it was them letting the fox universe get some closure. We all grew up with them and if im being honest this is the most comic book styled movie the MCU produced since endgame and thats because of the cameos. This is comic book stuff so it making sense was never something i cared about because at the end of the day, comic books NEVER make sense and thats okay.
The title should be “Disney has a nostalgia addiction”, because every IP that’s not doing great, they use nostalgia bait with (Star wars, every single remake from them, etc). I never thought I’d see Marvel fall so far that it has to resort to doing this so early, and it’s why I’m not excited for the mcu currently. It’s sad that the universe that once gave us great characters and stories to resonate with and be invested in, now has to use cameos and legacy characters to carry since they’ve spent the last 3 years making garbage. RDJ coming back is dumb, also. Doom deserves his own saga.
The post-Endgame phase(s) have been such a dud that they're already resorting to nostalgia. Ditto for the Star Wars sequels. Wish that Disney would try to use nostalgia in a novel way. Like if you valorize the Disney Renaissance of the '90s, instead of making crummy live-action remakes of the films, Disney should go back to its roots and try to bring back hand-drawn animation or animation that at least looks hand-drawn.
@@ShadowSonic2 What was entirely hand drawn recently that Disney did with animation? I must’ve missed it, cause hands drawn art seems to be lost in modern Hollywood, unless it’s Studio Ghibli.
Why Civil War, Endgame, and No Way home worked at using fan service right: - Civil war’s worked because it highlighted Tony and Steve’s inner conflict, as well as paying homage to the source material beautifully - Endgame’s portals scene, Iron Man’s sacrifice, and Mjolnir cap worked because the portals scene took 11 years of buildup and it had tons of emotional weight for the heroes. And it pays homage to the comics, particularly the Avengers Assemble scene. Iron Man’s sacrifice worked because it made sense for the character as he was willing to sacrifice himself to save the universe. Cap wielding Mjolnir worked because it highlighted that he was more than just a laboratory experiment. He had heart. He had determination. He wielded it in the comics and they were faithfully adapting it beautifully. - No way home’s three spider scene worked because they were characters we knew and loved, as they played a huge role in the story. It even paid homage to the spider verse event in comics. The point is those three movies worked at using fan service because they gave us emotional connections to the characters and it made sense for each movie’s narrative. Many subsequent stuff didn’t work at fan service because of how poorly utilized they were. - Multiverse of madness didn’t work because they didn’t give any emotional connections, as they used characters like professor X and Reed richards as punching bags. - The Marvels’ beast scene felt out of place because for the overall narrative of the movie, it didn’t fit. Plus, Marvel became so desperate for the Marvels from what I heard, that they had to shoehorn Beast in. I just hope Marvel learns their lesson. Those two are just a few examples of poor use of fan service. Aside from that, I thought Deadpool & Wolverine was pretty good. I’d rate the movie a 9/10.
I agree with most your comment but Deadpool and wolverine made all the same mistakes as MoM and others. Just look at Human Torch and Sabertooth. The other cameo characters get only 15 minutes of screen time AT MOST and nearly less than 10 lines of dialogue each. In Blade's case, just repeating old catchphrases from the Blade trilogy. Makes No Way Home look amazing by comparison. I respect your opinion but I feel this movie won't age well at all given a year, like what happened to Avatar
@@ManiacMayhem7256 that’s why I put it at 9/10. It was fun, but I didn’t like what they did with some of the cameos, which explains why I didn’t give it a 10.
@@ManiacMayhem7256why do you need old characters development? It was a great moment for audience to hype Blade and to see Gambit live. It’s a movie about D fighting W and hanging up with him later. We as audience got a hype moment and it’s enough for me.
@@nizmei8052 Tobey Spiderman got no development in No Way Home yet he was great there, far better than any of the cameos here. If you think asking for better use of characters equals to them needing an hour long arc dedicated to them, then I don't know what to tell you. We saw Blade for roughly 15 minutes before he gets eaten by a giant CGI cloud monster. In that time he had less than 10 lines of dialogue as I said, mostly repeats of old catchphrases.
One of the main problems why they couldn't do something new after Avengers: Endgame is they didn't know what to do next after that. With the Infinity Saga, they somehow managed to steer in the right direction by creating a great cinematic theatrical experience that fans experienced in 2018 and 2019. After that, they didn't have any plan and they decided to try quantity, but it didn't work out. So they decided to focus on the old formula for success, to bet on what works. They called the Russos back, the old screenwriter, RDJ. Also, Deadpool and Wolverine also look like an attempt to evoke nostalgia and pleasant feelings with fan service. And you know... I think it will work in Doomsday and Secret Wars. I think we can get the same experience as Infinity War and Endgame, but only on a larger scale and with more emphasis on fan service and cameos with big nostalgia bait. Will they get a good story? Let's see, it all depends on how ready they are to go to such a lawsuit by bringing back RDJ and the old guys so that they can fix what didn't work with Kang and phases 4-5.
Going for quantity was such a terrible idea. It was squandering their strength and putting themselves on a level with their weakest competitors. And they believed their own propaganda on girlbosses. Now I think the female superheroes could have worked way better than they turned out, but not with the entitled attitude they took, they needed to earn it like the male superheroes did. And no, "realizing you were brilliant all along and just have to believe in yourself" isn't earning it.
@@Treblaine Those male leads did the same stuff the women did, the audience simply could tolerate they more because they're not told to hate them the way they're told to hate women.
@@ShadowSonic2 You again. I recognize your non-stop bad takes. People were not told to hate women. People were told to hate men. We were told by the entire mainstream media we have no choice, we had to like them and if we didn't we were the scum of the earth. No one cares about your smears any more. You've been falsely accusing people of being sexist any time they don't like anything with a woman in it since 2016 and it's not even working as shaming people into silence and it NEVER worked at shaming people into watching this mediocre tripe.
Majors’ legal troubles gave Feige his excuse to wipe the slate and go running back to the Russos, his beloved suck-ups. He was getting cold feet about a new direction.
A cameo showcase like No Way Home or Deadpool and Wolverine is fine once every two or three years. It becomes a problem when regular releases like Multiverse of Madness or Quantumania are hijacked for cameos and Multiverse setup.
Marvel tried leaning into the "All New All Different" run with the last 5 years of movies. It's been an unmitigated disaster. Nostalgia is all they have.
@ShadowSonic2 I am a woman you plank. ANAD was a disaster in print, and it was a disaster on film. Nothing to do with women or minorities, these are just bad, politically driven stories that never had an audience.
The problem with that is that they dont execute it fully like What if? was a good idea but it became Capt Carter show, the only exception is Loki which had a solid conclusion.
@@ShadowSonic2 Phase 4 is in no way better than Phase 1 (Phase 2 is a bit more debatable). Phase 1 was very tight with each film feeling different but still working towards the same goal, the Avengers. I'm not even really blaming Phase 4 for this, Phase 1 had 6 movies, 1 which is a sequel and final one basically being a sequel to the previous 5, over 4 years, while Phase 4 had 7 movies and 8 shows over 2 years. Its just impossible to maintain quality like that.
If a song can be considered good just for being catchy or danceable, then I don't see why a movie can't be considered good just for being a fun romp. I don't think nostalgia is a problem unless it's hollow. When there's actual love and care put into the celebration of nostalgia, then I consider it good and worthwhile, even if it's not really saying something really new.
It's a fair enough mentality to have, but don't forget that there is a larger issue at play here, where nostalgia and recognizability is being used as a tool for profit. The actual quality of the media itself isn't as important to the studios as the profitability of it, and if there ends up being such a heavy focus on nostalgia and recognizability (which there currently is), then projects which don't meet that criteria suffer. Whether it be poor marketing because the nostalgia-bait gets more attention and funding, or whether projects just get brushed off altogether because it doesn't have those "profitable" elements that the studio is looking for. Nostalgia is a problem not just when it's hollow, but when it overshadows everything else, both within the media itself and when compared to other media
@@averythesuperhero I hear you, and I don't disagree that nostalgia is often utilized by corporations cynically. But there is a difference, as I said. Nostalgia is fine if it's coming from a place of genuine respect and admiration, and a desire to do something fun for the fans of that material. It doesn't have to be just member berries all the way down. I just don't want people to think Deadpool & Wolverine is the same as those kinds of cash grab nostalgia bait flicks because it isn't. There's a big difference between D&W vs. something like the Star Wars sequels, or Space Jam 2, or the Hobbit movies. If there's passion and respect, then I see no problem with nostalgia being the main ingredient in a fun movie. Nostalgia can be a really strong social bonding experience, which is what makes seeing movies like this in the theater so much fun. I think it's a good thing when done right. It's just when it's done in a soulless cynical manner by corporate committees that it becomes onerous to deal with. Not because there's anything wrong with nostalgia, but because we don't like people who don't understand us trying to connect with us superficially.
Because people don't rate it as such and also a catchy tune will most likely be catchy in 50 years. This movie will age worse than milk and will be absolute garbage in 5-10 years.
@@jknetwork6211alright let's be real here nwh isn't that great of a movie but the parts that have held up and will continue to hold up are because of good writing and understanding of its characters, evolving tom's spidey while showing what makes the character interesting in the first place, putting him in horrible situations and seeing how he overcomes those odds, his sacrifice at the end as a price to pay for his immaturity at the start of the movie, etc, and the great ending which sets up a good starting point for a low stakes spidey story (which mind you they might still fuck up in the 4th one and make that part of the movie age really badly) the cameos while giving solid performances only serve to parrot old lines and references people liked, they felt awkward when it came out, feel more awkward now, and will feel even more awkard in 15+ years for a generation with no attachment to tobey or andrew, meanwhile, the cameos and references ARE dp&w, it's all it has, it's a movie with an expiration date, with a ticking clock and it will eventually become worthless and nonsensical for anyone not living in the current cultural zeitgeist
I can't watch Force Awakens anymore because it comes off as a shallow recreation of a New Hope. That's the big thing I'm afraid that Marvel will turn to if this keeps up.
Not with bloated budgets. 🤷♀️ If you spend 400 million to make it and 200 million to advertise, you aren't turning enough of a profit for the companies. They need to scale back production and look to how they market 🤷♀️ ads for movies are increasingly confusing and terrible-- targeted and concise ads would serve them better
@@SilvLocs By MCU standards, "Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3" was only a moderate success. If you factor in the advertising budget, it was *barely* profitable!
It's a hit but it's a movie with the quality and buildup that should have easily cracked a billion $ and didn't. Accounting for ticket price inflation, fewer people went and saw it than GotG 1 in 2014
Not to Disney it isn't, not anymore. Endgame made almost 3 billion dollars at the box office. No Way Home made almost 2 billion. And DP&W is on its way to make a solid billion dollars. 850 million isn't the kind of the numbers the studio is looking for anymore. If they can make billions of dollars on something, that's what they're gonna aim for, and if that means nostalgia (NWH and DP&W) or doing what worked before (RDJ and the Russos returning), then that's what we're going to get.
Deadpool: Guys, can we stop with the multiverse thing? with all the variants? we tried, it didn't work out, let's just... take the L and move on. Marvel 5 minutes later: SO ANYWAY A TONY STARK VARIANT IS DR DOOM!!!
@@Renoistic I mean it was kinda the only way to bring deadpool back unless they just did it completely separate from the mcu like James Gunn's else world projects for DC. I do understand your point though.
"Marvel has a nostalgia problem and leans too much on the old" "Crossing over with the Andrew Garfield spider-man would be an inspired choice" How is that inspired exactly? It's just the same nostalgia pandering you were claiming to dislike
This isn’t the new MCU. Ryan and his team had pretty much full creative control. They wanted to send off the Fox universe as DP was created in it, ofc they're going to adress it and have fun with cameos.
@shadowsonic2 @xxxdestroyer in an interview the director and Ryan said they sent scripts to get approved and nothing they sent in got rejected. They said they were waiting for them to say no to jokes and ideas they had, but they never did. When the fox deal went down a few years ago, everyone was worried about Deadpool. The president of Disney said they will not touch Deadpool and let them do their thing.
@@awsome14619 Yes that's what I said, they had to get the ok (aka approval) for everything being done. The better term to use is "creative lead", not control. Because control suggest authority of the final product, but that's Marvel's decision.
What I find most fascinating is how short-sighted this nostalgia-fest is. It means that everything is curated to one generation who grew up with these characters/actors. And after that generation loses interest or the actors can no longer do their job, what's left? The generations after that will have no nostalgia for anything, because there was nothing new targeted at them coming out. And about the movie - "show don't tell" is a rule that was clearly completely lost. This is what I imagine the writers' room like: "The timeline is dissolving? Better tell us, don't show us. Wolverine let his whole world down? Tell us, don't show us. Vanessa and Wade broke up? For the love of god, DON'T SHOW US!"
I understand where you were coming from, I don't think we're there yet. If they keep this up after secret Wars then it goes too far. Definitely starting to get on that borderline nostalgia dependency
I’ve come to accept that this phase of the MCU is the nostalgia phase until Secret Wars. It continues past then, then it’ll be a significant issue for me when watching a movie. But idk, I feel the MCU just looking back for a bit and exploring dreams the fans have wanted for years which result in crowd pleasing moments is not a bad idea as a one off.
It clear the suits no longer care about "the art" and only want safe bets that will get them their second yacht (the current one is dusty). They want zero risks and have no vision for the future. When Stan Lee and Steve Ditko were creating these characters do you think they were worried about being safe? Current exes are accountants with no passion or vision and it's causing them to not build anything for future generations to be nostalgic about. My kids looks back to old Vines or RUclips videos, not to movies because everything is sequels. Even my Gen X ass is watching RUclips and TicTok because that's were the creativity is. Maybe when my memory starts to fail I can enjoy the retreading of old stuff, but not yet. RDJ coming back as Doom is a HUGE mistake. They will taint his legacy and miss the opportunity to do justice to one of the great Marvel villains. Yes, I am confident they will fuck him up.
Hollywood is having a nostalgia addiction, it’s not just Marvel and Disney didn’t even start the trend. Paramount was probably the rock that started the avalanche with Kingdom of the Crystal Skull in 2008.
Its funny how Marvel sold their biggest characters, X-Men, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, had other studios use them to revitalize interest in superhero films (Original X-Men trilogy & Sam Raimi's Spider-Man), then when they were loosing steam, used their lesser known characters to build a cinematic universe, and later buy back most of their properties.
I think that's actually easier, it's more difficult getting these huge A list characters right who come with such high expectations. So the future will be a huge test for them, luckily F4 actually looks promising so far but we'll see.
Is it REALLY an “nostalgia addiction” when the fox X-men actors have contracts until 2025 so their lowkey OBLIGATED to come back if needed and that DP&W was a LOVE LETTER AND FINALLY GOODBYE to the Fox era?
I'm concerned with how Deadpool's gonna be integrated into rest of the MCU. Is he just now gonne swear or dismember people? It'd be funny if he gets censored anytime he does and annoyed by it.
Marvel isn’t relying on nostalgia. We are literally in the multiverse saga and everything is leading up to secret wars,it makes perfect sense to bring back all the legacy characters. There not just cameos, they serve a purpose in the story. I don’t get why people are so upset with bringing back old characters, they literally asked for this. People wanted to see Tobey and Andrew in the mcu, people wanted Deadpool and Wolverine team up, people wanted the Russo brothers to come back. They gave us all of that but Nobody in the marvel fandom can be satisfied and it sucks.
Had the Marvels post credits scene not happened, I would have called this the curtain call for the Fox universe, outside of Wolverine and Deadpool. Now it feels like we are building towards a giant soft reboot post Avengers 5. So I feel like we will be leaning into the FoXmen for a bit longer.
I think another big problem Disney has created for themselves is that they've kind of given all their existing franchises a fitting farewell with Endgame, No Way Home and now Deadpool 3, they can keep trying to milk nostalgia but we've all had our cathartic goodbye to all the heros we loved so unless they can create something genuinely amazing bringing back an old actor or character will only work a few more times at best
I liked No Way Home partly because of how well they handled the nostalgia while still letting Tom shine. The other two Spider-Men don’t distract from the fact that the movie is 100% Tom’s. Plus, Tom gives his best performance yet in it. My only big issue is the fact that it basically made it so Tom can’t get his own version of some of Spider-Man’s most iconic villains. Tom has already faced off against Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Electro, Sandman, and the Lizard, but not his own versions of them. We don’t get to see what those characters would have been like in the MCU. Even if he got his own takes on any of those villains, the impact would be completely absent. Even the post-credits scene ruins the prospect of Venom by shoving a piece of the Tom Hardy symbiote into the mix.
*Deadpool just felt like one two and a half hour appeal for Fox Marvel movies to be justifiably folded into the Disney family but it honestly had little to say or add on its own. And maybe it is a necessary prerequisite before X-men movies can be rolled out.* It’s one of those movies I probably will not watch ever again since it had no real story or message. Though I must say I rather prefer the way Spider-man was added to the mix in Civil War instead.
This movie is awesome but it’s true I can see how it gets stuck with the Nostalgia from time to time like when the battle with Sabertooth was over so quickly, I choked on my soda while watching it. Sabertooth is supposed to be a vicious fighter and he needs more screen time than that. I certainly don’t want to see only Hugh as Wolverine for thirty more years. I strongly look forward to a day when we can have a new Wolverine with a different actor and story arc. Doing different X-men stuff also sounds good. This is exactly why I respect your channel. I definitely hope for Marvel to be open to more new ideas and movies as time goes on. Hopefully they will make something really different when they get around to a new X-men film. I also agree that Andrew Garfield needs more attention like a new solo film where he’s not just a guest star. The dude is still is very young and I want to see his Spider-man go places. He would also a great candidate for a Black cat or Sliver Sable team-up in my opinion.
Man I really loved the first Deadpool but have had no desire to keep going. "Memba this?" is the worst concept for modern media. It is very much like the comics industry.
People love nostalgia so they will be sold nostalgia. It's how it goes. Look at music, books, video games. They tend to pull people by the member berries.
to be fair MCU is mimicking the same route of comic books when the stories becomes very big and interconneceted that start to cater only to people who consumes all of them and not someone of them casually. Every big story is almost incomplete without having multiple issue from different characters
AVI ARAD ruined a lot of Marvel movies in the early 2000s Mainly... * Daredevil (2003) * The Punisher (2004) * Elektra (2005) * Fantastic Four (2005) * X-Men: The Last Stand And now he's gonna ruin... * Borderlands * Kraven the Hunter * Venom: The Last Dance * The Legend of Zelda * Naruto As long Arad lives, there's no hope
@@icetray2727 Despite the production's issues, Spider-Man 3 is farm from being bad, especially compared to all the other failed super-hero movies of the 2000s.
You make fantastic points, and great video 👍🏼 As an avid fan of these films and in keeping up with most production updates and any info that comes along, when it comes to the repurposing of the Fox universe I personally see them using all of it as a Trojan horse to keep us engaged and make an easy profit while they figure out how to introduce a completely new cast to play the X-men in the MCU, while still incorporating elements from the original universes (Mcavoy/Stewart) One example in DP&W that really stood out to me as a tease is the near end scene where DP tells Wolverine that he is the best Wolverine, yes he is speaking about the character being the worst Wolverine variant, but I personally saw it as Ryans way of saying that no matter who they put under that mask in the future, if ever, he will always be the best version of that character in his heart. You make an excellent point however that the more they use elements from the Fox universe, the harder they make it for audiences to care for a new cast and the further they stray from the need or care to create X-men that are native to the MCU. If done correctly though, I can see this being a very successful soft reboot for the MCU building up to Secret Wars, by which point we will have hopefully been given a new version of the X-men.
Really fun video! I had a lot of fun with Deadpool & Wolverine, but I'm pretty easy to please. I like listening to more nuanced discussions like this! Also, side note-- do you have a letterboxd people can follow? I love that app so much haha
The numbers show that people just want nostalgia, they’re just giving the people what they want. It’s a shame they don’t give us new things to get attached to that they need to rely on this.
For years I was desperate for Disney to get the rights to X-Men and FF so they could appear in the MCU. But by 2021 I dreaded it. Now I think Spider-man NWH and Deadpool & Wolverine have set a bad precedent. We'll never get a new MCU Norman Osbourne and maybe not even an MCU Doctor Doom. Just cameo rehashes of old actors we liked 20 years ago.
Stop right there Captain Midnight. Wolverine and Deadpool is NOT "Nostagia Addiction'. More like they made a lot of Marvel related Sony pictures or from other studios other than Marvel Studios and we saw No Way Home Spiderman so they thought 'why not do something similar to those prior Marvel related characters whom we now re-own the rights too. It is not some Addiction to Nostalgia. I think most people who watched like the fact they did that and brought back cameos for the originals. I liked how the added Punisher, but yes it would have been great to see one or more of those Punishers. Dolf, Tomas Jane, etc. I get why they didn't. Ben Affleck too, can he fit in those Daredevil Tights? Probably not or needs an expanding Spandex suit who then says 'Why can't I get a large coat like Gambit' answer: cuz Daredevil don't wear coats says Punisher who does wear coats occasionally. Just like for the new Captain America movie they will be bringing in prior Hulk movie cast members. I know they would have used William Hurt for Thunderbolt Ross had he not passed away and Hurt would have become Red Hulk. I like how they did that.
I always appreciate your candor in these in videos. I saw it with a friend who loved it to bits. Not that I didn’t enjoy it, but the joy I initially felt went away pretty quickly. The only two people I know who have seen it are obsessed, so I don’t feel I can speak critically about the film with them I really really want the MCU to focus on new characters, I need something fresh that stays with me a long time after the initial excitement goes away. I really enjoy MoonKnight, Shang Chi, and Ms. Marvel; I feel those characters were very overshadowed by the disappointment of the projects that came out around them.
True they do although it does make sense to do with the whole Multiverse Saga going on. Besides that it may be cause in something like J.K Simmons Far From Home appearance that they truely think the actor is perfect almost too perfect for the role and HAVE to bring him back with J.K as Jameson likely being the only exception of that
You seem to be forgetting that this is called The Multiverse Saga. Because of that we are going to see many more nostalgic characters returning to the big screen. Once secret wars is over, I believe we will get a full reboot of the mcu.
I rewatched the orginal x men movies and was reminded of how original those films were. Not in story and characters, but in tone. It wasn’t about cameos or big action set pieces every 5 minutes. It was really focusing on our main characters, hints of their back stories and how it affects them now, the interactions these characters had with eachother. Similar to phase 1 and 2 MCU movies. They really displayed the duality of magneto and Charles perfectly and how morally complex it was for each side. MCU needs to get back to those types of grounded storylines. Not every movie needs to be a massive universe ending event
This is exactly what I’ve been thinking about after seeing Deadpool Wolverine. Where are the new stories (good stories) that move the pieces forward and make me excited for new sci-fi/Action entertainment not just with in the MCU. You could say this about a lot of other brands out there today.
This is the multiverse saga so nostalgia is going to be a big part of it, the new mutant saga they are aiming for will definitely start rebooting thing. I think you’ll get your wish after this saga is done.
@@kiratwo4u Got it so you hate this movie for being successful like I said. A “lazily made” film with “no original concept whatsoever” wouldn’t make over a billion dollars in less than two weeks
Tbh I don't mind the Multiverse idea. It's a great way to connect all the Marvel movies. The problems I had is with the disney+ shows. They should just focus on the movies
Some of you seem to fail to notice that the entirety of Marvel’s comics is heavily dipped in nostalgia. How many times heroes have died and been brought back? How many times have they moved forward the birth date/origin date of heroes just to justify keeping them around and kicking? Marvel has a problem with letting go and evolving, it has a problem with creating new stuff and use it for the next 50 years before going at it again. As much as I love the classic mutants or Tony Stark, they’re characters born in the 50s/60s and are still around looking 40 yo. And they keep coming back. At least with Krakoa, the mutants had reason to be around seemingly forever. But how is it that Tony dies and comes back constantly,or even never ages really? And as some people said, the main issue lies in the audience that keeps asking for that.
Yes, they do, and it’s extremely early for them to be nostalgia-baiting. I’d love for them to do “A Spider-Island” or Wolverines' “Secret Daughter,” both of which write amazing stories.
Anybody notice that Spider-Man: Far From Home is the only MCU film that crossed over a billion since Captain Marvel, which itself promoted itself as required viewing, that didn’t pay heavy homage & cameos to films prior
@@Zooted504 I never even said that I’m just pointing out that except for FFH and Joker the only superhero films that made over a billion since Captain Marvel released have had heavy nostalgic elements associated with them
@@Grimmaculate Captain Marvel released 5 years ago And since then the only superhero films to cross a billion have been Avengers: Endgame - nostalgia laden Spider-Man: Far From Home Joker Spider-Man: No Way Home - Nostalgia laden Deadpool & Wolverine - Nostalgia laden Dr Strange and the Multiverse of Madness got the closest to a billion since Captain Marvel and it too had nostalgia laden casting with Prof X. Come to think of it even FFH had nostalgia casting via JJ Jameson even though that was post credits. My point should be very clear. There’s a trend where superhero movies can’t cross over a billion nowadays without having to resort to nostalgia laden casting and paying homage to previous films. In the five years since Captain Marvel only Joker and Far From Home(JJ cameo notwithstanding) have been able to do so, which hasn’t been the case before Captain Marvel released.
I'm pretty sure they're still rebooting the X-Men in the mcu. They just want to use the old versions of Deadpool and Wolverine for Secret Wars because they're popular
Not gonna lie, I went into this movie really really wanting that to be the case, and I just hated it - and that’s fine. Don’t assume people have hidden agendas sometimes they just don’t like something that you love
At a certain point, it's just overload. Sure, I enjoy it when movies reference older stuff I like, but the fact remains, I HAVE ACCESS TO THAT OLDER STUFF. What I am watching a new movie for is NEW things, or at least fresh takes on old concepts. If all you do is stuff your movies full of nostalgic references to older films, at a certain point, I'll just watch the originals and revisit why THEY were good, as opposed to your new ones, which suck.
X-Men ‘97 hit the sweet spot for me. It felt nostalgic (brought me right back to watching it on the couch as a kid), while moving forward. Just give them the money to make a feature length animated X-Men.
Do you think Marvel should lean into nostalgia?
Read my comic BINARY SEA on Amazon Kindle: a.co/d/9JfoZC0
you should review rick and morty season 7
Yes❤let's fuckkking gooo
Leaning into nostalgia, when done correctly like in Cobra Kai, is amazing. In that show, the writers found ways to let the legacy characters positively (or negatively, such as Terry Silver) impact the new characters and the plot in a thoughtful way.
Leaning into nostalgia just for the sake of nostalgia and not introducing something more to the characters actually backfires more often than not, especially if it messes up the plot or doesn't move the plot or characters along.
I think Marvel trying to rely almost exclusively on nostalgia is a huge mistake. Most of the time at Disney, it's just not done in a constructive manner.
No.
To answer your question.
Neither MoM or NWH were good movies
The Illuminati were wasted in that movie
and the Sinister 5 just didn’t work as enemies because of how forgettable most of them were
I feel the same about blade being in cesspool and wolverine
This is why I believe the faster they get to Secret Wars and hit the big reset button for everything, the better.
Why is secret wars even needed for this
It’s over man, just let the mcu go
@@ROI684that’s what secret wars is
@@homielander5924 Sorry to burst your bubble man, but the Mcu isn't going anywhere anytime soon especially after the huge box office sucess of Deadpool and Wolverine.
@@Xzcvr
Doesn't matter you don't need any justification, just ignore all of the weird shit they were doing in phase 4/5 and start building a narrative for a new saga
Nostalgia is a strong drug
And Disney became the biggest dealer of all
Dealers only exist because there is demand for it. So really we the fans are to blame for all this nostalgia lately. The studios are just following the demand we create.
You do realize Disney's been selling nostalgia for a literal century? Their biggest movies came out between the 40s-60s and the 90s. We only buy because they make a damn good drug.
I believe they are, in fact, the addict
you think youre saying something deep but its just sounds nice. this movie was excellent and handled its nostalgic callbacks in funny ways while also giving nearly every character an arc to go through. you dont gotta agree just because your youtuber has this opinion.
And it should. Disney is struggling financially in all business units. Parks attendance is down. Cable and linear tv are still at a crossroads as to the future. Theatrical has 2 hits (in about a month of each other) the last 2 years.
Just wait until this weekend at D23. Everything will be IP that is proven for the rest of this decade.
I think it was a good last hurrah for the Fox movies. It represented all the movies that audiences loved and hated, and even the ones that never got off the ground with Gambit.
Sooooo....nostalgia
Problem is it won't be the last hurrah. Their plan is to just keep bringing back Hugh Jackman Wolverine for as long as possible, rather than recasting and doing a clean reboot
@@yrulaughing418hes gonna keep doing it till hes 90
@@yrulaughing418 Deadpool even said it, you'll be doing this til you're 90
Imo nah. Said characters get less than 15 minutes of screen time with nearly less than ten lines of dialogue each. In Blade's case, mainly just repeating catchphrases from the Blade trilogy. Fantastic Four is especially given zero last hurrah. Human Torch eliminated very unceremoniously very quickly. Same with Sabertooth both for jokes that weren't even that funny. Compare this to No Way Home in how that treats its other universe characters, and it's no competition. I respect your opinion, but I felt the cameos were hollow. Still, at least RR got what he wanted
The reason Blade was in the movie is because the Blade film played a crucial role in the development of the MCU. It was released at a time when Hollywood had lost faith in comic book movies due to the disappointment of "Batman and Robin" and "Spawn". However, "Blade" was a tremendous success and rejuvenated Hollywood's interest in comic book adaptations. Ryan Reynolds including Blade in "Deadpool 3" is a tribute to the film that sparked a new era for Marvel movies.
Not to mention Reynolds co starred with Snipes in Blade Trinity. So the appearance of Wesley Snipes returing as Blade is another reunion as well for Ryan Reynolds apart from Hugh Jackman’s second billing as the main selling point.
The MCU was developed off the Marvel Comics series "The Ultimates"...that Blade movie had nothing to do with it. Ryan Reynolds put Blade in the movie because Ryan Reynolds was in Blade 3. That's it.
@@marshallartsentertainment3741not necessarily the MCU, but marvel at the time was broke, and the financial success of blade was able to save the company iirc. People get it mixed up, it didnt “save” the mcu or whatever, it saved marvel to a degree. Most people probably never realized it was a comic book movie to begin with
@@theorbitalone7283 Nope. Marvel would've survived without the release of that movie. It didn't "save" anything. To any degree. The MCU is here because of the success of the comics and is based off of the comics. That's it.
@marshallartsentertainment3741 If Marvel didn't sell the movie rights of it's most popular characters back the 90s they would have went under, THAT IS A FACT!!! And do you know why??? Because no one was buying comics back then dingleberry.
The Doctor Doom casting felt like it was a desperate MCU move, especially with seeing how Deadpool & Wolverine is killing it in the box office
It’s to get rid of Kang
Feige is sh**ing his pants
@@LuisSierra42I doubt it
well said
I think it's definitely a desperate move, but not because of Deadpool & Wolverine. They're too fresh to be the reason.
I think it's a desperate move, because they have been losing money for the past years. No Way Home already proved Fans would go absolutely BERSERK for Nostalgia, and they're learning of people's thoughts after Endgame but getting the wrong reasons.
RDJr as the Face of the MCU is essentially their best safe move, alongside how this Multiverse Saga can help bring stuff back.
The Multiverse isn't a Mistake, but if the Multiverse was a Gun, Disney is the Toddler holding that Gun
Let's not beat around the bush, here. It's not necessarily that Disney and Marvel have a nostalgia addiction, they just have a money addiction (I think that's called greed?). It's the audiences that are addicted to nostalgia. Whether we like to admit it or not, the only reason studios keep pumping out nostalgia-bait and things like that is because WE KEEP WATCHING IT. Because people get hyped to see the actor from their childhood returning in a new movie, then go pay to see it, but then proceed to rag on the studio for being obsessed with nostalgia. My theory is that people get excited and pay money to see these things because they're excited to recapture their childhood experience, and then when it obviously doesn't hit the same, then they think the issue is that the studio is just relying on nostalgia. Disney doesn't have a nostalgia addiction, they're just the dealer, and as long as audiences continue to pay for nostalgia, the studios will keep selling them.
Yep. Very true.
Between the over reliance on nostalgia combined with the return of RDJ and the Russo Bros, it feels like the writing’s on the wall: the MCU just CANNOT escape from getting caught in the shadow of Infinity War and Endgame. Now that they’re over, the franchise is turning towards nostalgia as a way to cover up the fact that they’ve run out of fresh ideas (not that this is always bad; the only movies post-Endgame that I liked were Far From Home, No Way Home, and GOTG Vol. 3) but overall it’s perfectly clear that the MCU since Endgame has been making more misses than hits and nostalgia is being used out of desperation for hits.
Speak for yourself.
@@Meldrick-jv7sydude there is no “speak for yourself” here. The bottom line is that these companies are going to do what makes them the most money, and the fact that Disney keeps doing this with all of its major franchises should show you that clearly nostalgia is what is bringing in the money. It’s still not a good thing, but this is on the general audience for eating this shit up because at the end of the day these mega corporations are always gonna do what is the most profitable
I think that’s a broad simplification. When the MCU first started they began from scratch, created a rather obscure character into a multi-billion dollar movie franchise that has relied on before endgame on obscure or less fleshed out characters. It’s only recently that they’ve been betting on Nostalgi because every new character they bring in they treat as if they have to be at the same calibre of the avengers at the point of Endgame. Ironheart and The Eternals are prime examples of this.
They can mask mediocre stories and failed character arch’s to be like “hey remember this guy!” As a distraction. So of course we’ll still eat it up but to say most of the onus is on us is false. We’re hungry for great takes and original stories. Look at the success of Fallout and House of the Dragon. It’s Disney’s inability to take risk and relying on the Nostalgia drug that’s causing this feedback loop. Not vice versa.
All of Hollywood has nostalgia addiction in today's age whether we like it or not.
If you look back even in the past of Hollywood isn't the first time they did that. I had to remember you Return to Oz (1985) or the Psycho remake of the 90s ?
@@francescozenocchini4428 This should be explored more! Remakes and reboots are nothing new or wrong, yet people bitch these days like it is.
Hollywood doesn't have a nostalgia addiction, your typical movie-goer does. If people weren't into pointless reboots, uncalled-for-sequels they wouldn't lean into nostalgia bait as much as they do.
@@francescozenocchini4428 Return to Oz slapped though.
And Disney are by far the worst offenders
I can't believe we were denied Cillian Murphy as Doctor Doom. Or even Mads Mikkelsen, who was already an MCU villian in Doctor Strange.
Instead we got a guy who's gonna eat 100+ million of the budget.
Are we though
@@iziah2161 marval probably need to give him 50million extra if the movie hit 1 billion$+
Hoping one of those kills this universe’s RDJ Doom.
Well it is a multiverse saga so perhaps he wont be the only one
Shang-Chi "hello? marvel? i'm still here"
Yeah umm Shang-Chi 2? The post credit scene? They must’ve forgot
He was a diversity hire he ain’t that important
sucks dude. i actaully really enjoyed shang chi. i wasnt the biggest fan of the "big final battle" but i loved the smaller kung flu movie flavored scenes
@@Yeahhhhthisisgoodsucks to you, we’re done with woke “diverse” movies like woke shi
I'm still waiting for that guy and his awesome Kung Fu fight scenes to come back.
And Moon Knight.
There's usually a 20-year rule regarding nostalgia due to young people becoming adult consumers (ex: the 70s were nostalgic towards the 50s, the 80s towards the 60s, 90s towards 70s, and so on). Yet for the past 24+ years, the 80s has objectively taken hold of pop culture w/ no signs of slowing down. It was expected in the 2000s w/ the likes of GTA Vice City, VH1's "I Love the 80s" trilogy, Rock of Ages musical, Michael Bay's Transformers, Turtles Forever, Angry Video Game Nerd, etc... giving people their nostalgic fix. But while 90s & early 2000s nostalgia still existed in the 2010s & early 2020s respectively, the 80s has overtaken them completely: Stranger Things, Cobra Kai, GLOW, The Goldbergs, Bumblebee, Wonder Woman 1984, It Chapters 1 & 2, Ghostbusters: Afterlife, Top Gun: Maverick, etc...
doesnt hollywood have a nostalgia problem in general?
A dead culture can only look at the past for value
@@Bojoschannel But they are the most progressive people
Yes, and it's hard to blame them. Just look at the money it makes them.
@@LuisSierra42 progressive if you believe progress only means making money
yes
Deadpool & Wolverine was basically a passion project not for just comic fans but also for Ryan and Hugh as well.
It was cheap nostalgia bait for cash. Even had the overdone trendy multiverse plot. I'm surprised Colin Farrell's Bullseye didn't show up too.
@@Disconnect350
Agreed. Very typical MCU plot, just this time the plot tells you how typical it is, as if that makes it better.
Bullseye did show up btw, I saw the costume. But he doesn't even remotely look like Collin. Those who see the cameo will know what i mean
Get the fuck out of here! This was not a passion project, they wanted to make money, a lot of money.
Give it a couple of weeks and people will see this movie in another light.
There is nothing in this movie other than "look characters you know and like".
@@Disconnect350AWESOME cheap cash grap! Not every movie has to be smart or move the universe somewhere.
It was a simple popcorn flick with dirty jokes and fan service - exactly what it is supposed to be.
My problem with this nostalgia frenzy fans. This negative affects new takes/adaption or change to superhero movies. There is so much hate with negative hate for the new superman cos hes not henry cavil. It stops creativity and the audiences are constantly asking for EVERYONE to come back. I want new future takes for all heroes. We should respect the past and look for the future.
Exactly. Marvel isn't the only one stuck in the past, it's the audience as well
Marvel and DC fans have always been like this. It's an obsession with continuity and timelines which leads to characters never evolving or changing into something new and interesting.
Surprisingly james bond is the one franchise that seems to understand this. Unless they are secretly planning a movie where danile Craig, pierce brosnan and timothy Dalton all team up.
Alot of people didn’t even like Cavill’s superman
The people screaming for Cavill Superman are a *very* vocal minority
Most profitable addiction in human history
Idk I think the guys running drug cartels would disagree on that.
Not sugar? Cocaine? caffeine? heroin?
@@olleselinboth are owned by Disney 😊
Nostalgia is going to destroy Disney, and also, the superhero genre is a mistake!
@@kaminsod4077lol apparently u can’t explicitly type the words cocayne or heron bc I mentioned those and sugar and caffeine same time as u
There’s nothing wrong with giving the fans what they want (nostalgia and all) as long as it serves a purpose. That’s why Tobey and Andrew’s returns were received incredibly well (other than the initial shock and awe nostalgia factor). They helped MCU Spider-Man mature, and truly learn what it means that with great power, comes great responsibility. It served as a necessary and important character arc, so Tom’s Spider-Man could fully become the beloved Spider-Man we know and love.
Same thing’s happened with Deadpool and Wolverine. While they haven’t necessarily met any key players from the MCU just yet, they both served each other and allowed both characters to grow stronger through their bond. Wolverine taught Deadpool how to be a selfless hero. Deadpool helped Wolverine regain his confidence, and embrace the legacy (of his old friends) that’s signified by his suit. They all had a purpose of returning. Not only for the fans, but for the story and characters to grow.
Blade and Elektra were kinda given endings, and we got to officially say goodbye to them. Laura is now a member of the MCU. Gambit made a name for himself, and with any luck he’ll also become a permanent resident in the MCU. Even Johnny Storm got an ending, as morbid as it was. They all served a purpose. That’s why they work, and the fans are embracing the nostalgia train.
I agree with everything except I don't think the cameos in D&W worked at all.
I agree with this whole piece 👏
@@Renoistic Why not?
For this movie i think deadpool worked bec he is a fourth wall breaking character. He wants to see those moments/cameo as much as everyone else. He IS the hype man. It make the most sense DP is the one give the fans what they wanted.
No Way Home and Deadpool vs Wolverine do a great job of respecting the past without ruining the things we loved about them which is what the fans want,the bigger problem is the lack of care they put into everything else, I think that can be explained since Fox and Sony produced No Way Home and DAW and not the in house Marvel studios by Kevin Feige.
Well get used to Nostalgia because I have a feeling there will be lots of it in Avengers: Secret Wars
Ironically I think that's what is going to be the undoing of secret wars. They are teaching audiences "keep watching because characters from those older movies might come back in surprise roles!" Its no longer "keep watching because we are building up to a bigger story." They are selling these movies on nostalgia alone. And now everyone expects secret wars to have EVERYONE in it and there is NO WAY they can do that. They can't pay everyone that much money. And the people who do come back might get 5 seconds of action in a big fight sequence and nothing else. Just like in comic crossovers your favorite characters will get sidelined. If they make the focus on all 3 spider-men and introduce Mile's morales then that is gonna have to come at the expense of time spent with old x-men cast and old avengers cast. They have bitten off more than they can chew. They are gonna try to please everyone and it's gonna collapse because it's impossible to do that.
@@galactic85 Maybe, but I feel it's still possible. Avengers 1 didn't seem possible way back when, but it happened. Same with Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame. Characters that showed up in Endgame barely had any screen time and didn't even have any dialogue at all, but the movie still did incredibly well. I think what this means is that if new viewers want to have context on these cameo characters, they'll just need to add the non-MCU films to the list of "MCU homework" that I feel some people are already used to doing. But I guess it also depends if the Disney feels it's worth dumping all that money depending on the state of the MCU when they get to Secret Wars. I don't feel confident as of right now, but it's still possible.
@@galactic85yea but infinity war and end game showed big team movies can work and having cameos in secretcwars can be a good thing. You also have to remember this is most likely only going to be a phase 5 thing with the multiverse its msrvels only real chance of doing any of these cameos. Once secret wars is over we are probably not seeing any more cameos or stleast not to the scale of spiderman no way home or deadpool 3.
@@galactic85 Secret Wars makes Infinity War and End Game look like child's play, the problem is Secret Wars is the quintessential multiverse story, and it's arguably the best story Marvel has ever written. It will have probably over 80 characters in it, and it will end the multiverse, but the problem is people are tired of the multiverse now, but Dr. Doom is the biggest part of the multiverse saga so basically we're going to just have to watch 2 more Avenger's multiverse movies that will be insanely bloated, but then after Secret Wars there's a soft reboot where there's only 1 universe now and no more multiverses. Secret Wars has to happen though it was always inevitable, especially since we're in the multiverse saga right now.
The thing i hate the most about Disney’s nostalgia hit is like when they’re their stupid cameos, there’s like a pause for the audience to cheer. It makes it so annoying watching it alone and just awkward. Just because “its the thing you like” doesn’t make it good.
It’s even funnier when you’re in a showing that’s barely packed because there’s five of them going on at roughly the same time at your local multiplex and so nobody is really clapping. Happened to me with Doctor Strange
@@mg6945 i started the clapping in my first screening of no way home, watched it at home and it’s so weird.
Honestly would be a perfectly fine editing choice if they just removed the pause in the home version.
Nostalgia is great for the initial hype, but the rewatch value diminishes every time you watch them because that's the big draw over the plot.
@@TinyLordCthulhu that is so true.
Snipes' Blade SAVED Marvel. Without Blade, there would be no MCU. He IS the biggest get for a homage/ nostalgia movie.
Nah
@@suzygirl1843 Box office disagrees with you 😊
@@suzygirl1843you do know that the blade movies saved marvel from going bankrupt right?
@@backto-il9ne Not really. Women prefer to watch movies at home nowadays. Box office says nothing.
@@YOGI-kb9tg Yeah in the 90's Marvel was going bankrupt people stopped buying comics and they had to start selling their IP's like Spiderman, and making Blade and X-Men basically saved the entire company.
It was the first R rated MCU film and was the final sendoff for the Fox universe, D&W was just a damn good time.
The first R rated Marvel film was Blade
@@2120musiclover not MCU. it started with Iron Man.
@@2120musicloverthe Blade film wasn’t made by marvel; blade was just a marvel character. Same way tobey maguires and Andrew Garfield’s spider man were both apart of Sony
I think the amount of criticism this movie is getting for just giving marvel fans what they want is insane. You can never win.
What they want is gutless fanservice?
@@ShadowSonic2 well apparently, people want cheap movie using recycle fanservice with no story
well people love crossovers and cameos etc galore hence fanboys screaming about avengers vs xmen when there is barely an avengers and that is to say nothing of mutants or xmen or even being invested in them whatsoever or respecting the franchise for what it is and could be then just viewing them as a worthwhile crossover with the avengers.
people in the comments really just proving what op said to be true lmao, this movie made over a billion dollars and haters keep making up excuses for why giving the fans what they want suddenly means "gutless fanservice". Every past marvel movie did something similar and it bombed yet D&W succeeds, stop pretending like there isn't a reason for that
@@LegendXD00Yes, because this one brought Jackman back and put him in tye costume
I know its unrelated but with this nostalgia thing, I just want a Batman Beyond movie with Michael Keaton as old Bruce, he deserved better than that flash final fight
I would love that, I just don't know if WB will ever do it because unlike Marvel Studios (for the most part) they seem to do the opposite of what some fans want.
I think Robert Patterson should have been Terry Mcgenis instead of Bruce. Definitely agree with you with Keaton being Old Bruce.
From Marvel's perspective, "moving forward" has been a series of harsh reminders that newer characters don't have the cachet of the old ones. I don't disagree that there's a vast reservoir of comic content much-beloved by comics fans the MCU has left un-touched, but I can't help but wonder if, presently, the MCU possesses talent capable of transitioning it to the big screen, let alone the courage to bring new projects into being that aren't covered in "sure bet" stickers, so to speak.
Iron Man was a B-level character at best before the movies. The Guardians C-level. It's not impossible to introduce new characters.
The problem for me feels more that the new characters are introduced so fast that they feel underdeveloped. People liked Shang chi because it focused on his character and developed who he was. Cramming Monica rambeaus origin into wandavision was just super awkward. Also a lot if their new characters are being Introduced on Disney plus. People have limited money for streaming services and at least when marcek was only making movies you just had to go to the theater to see the next chapter. Introducing characters like Ms marvel and moon knight on Disney plus automatically shrunk the audience and gave fewer people the chance to become fans.
@@galactic85Yes, not to mention the overproduction of movies and tv shows, overworking vfx artists and rushing projects out with terrible writing and underdeveloped characters. Which is why moving forward from Secret Wars, they should hammer down and focus on quality above quantity.
With Deadpool & Wolverine they should make a lot of profit and offset the debts from previous projects. That way, when making their next movies or shows, they should really be mindful of budgets and properly set production schedules so they don’t end up wasting money on 100s of reshoots in post production.
@@Renoistic Not impossible, but it's a hard sell. The Guardians taking off gave them the mistaken impression they could sell any C List character as big star but it turns out they just got lucky with them and their attempts to make Carol, or Kamala, or Echo or She Hulk big things are falling flat.
They needed to hard reset with X-Men and FF but didn't have the guts
I’ve got a nostalgia addiction.
Marvel has a nostalgia market and sells it like merchandise.
Man enough to admit it, mad respec my fellow nostalgiaddict
correct there would never be a market of it if will have a small customer
I just think it was them letting the fox universe get some closure. We all grew up with them and if im being honest this is the most comic book styled movie the MCU produced since endgame and thats because of the cameos. This is comic book stuff so it making sense was never something i cared about because at the end of the day, comic books NEVER make sense and thats okay.
The title should be “Disney has a nostalgia addiction”, because every IP that’s not doing great, they use nostalgia bait with (Star wars, every single remake from them, etc). I never thought I’d see Marvel fall so far that it has to resort to doing this so early, and it’s why I’m not excited for the mcu currently. It’s sad that the universe that once gave us great characters and stories to resonate with and be invested in, now has to use cameos and legacy characters to carry since they’ve spent the last 3 years making garbage. RDJ coming back is dumb, also. Doom deserves his own saga.
The post-Endgame phase(s) have been such a dud that they're already resorting to nostalgia. Ditto for the Star Wars sequels. Wish that Disney would try to use nostalgia in a novel way. Like if you valorize the Disney Renaissance of the '90s, instead of making crummy live-action remakes of the films, Disney should go back to its roots and try to bring back hand-drawn animation or animation that at least looks hand-drawn.
@HonestObserver They tried that and audiences didn't want hand drawn stuff
They need to unfreeze Walt Disney and put him back in charge.
@@ShadowSonic2 What was entirely hand drawn recently that Disney did with animation? I must’ve missed it, cause hands drawn art seems to be lost in modern Hollywood, unless it’s Studio Ghibli.
@NoirNameless Princess and the Frog, 2009. The audiences complained it was "Forced Diversity"
Why Civil War, Endgame, and No Way home worked at using fan service right:
- Civil war’s worked because it highlighted Tony and Steve’s inner conflict, as well as paying homage to the source material beautifully
- Endgame’s portals scene, Iron Man’s sacrifice, and Mjolnir cap worked because the portals scene took 11 years of buildup and it had tons of emotional weight for the heroes. And it pays homage to the comics, particularly the Avengers Assemble scene. Iron Man’s sacrifice worked because it made sense for the character as he was willing to sacrifice himself to save the universe. Cap wielding Mjolnir worked because it highlighted that he was more than just a laboratory experiment. He had heart. He had determination. He wielded it in the comics and they were faithfully adapting it beautifully.
- No way home’s three spider scene worked because they were characters we knew and loved, as they played a huge role in the story. It even paid homage to the spider verse event in comics.
The point is those three movies worked at using fan service because they gave us emotional connections to the characters and it made sense for each movie’s narrative.
Many subsequent stuff didn’t work at fan service because of how poorly utilized they were.
- Multiverse of madness didn’t work because they didn’t give any emotional connections, as they used characters like professor X and Reed richards as punching bags.
- The Marvels’ beast scene felt out of place because for the overall narrative of the movie, it didn’t fit. Plus, Marvel became so desperate for the Marvels from what I heard, that they had to shoehorn Beast in.
I just hope Marvel learns their lesson. Those two are just a few examples of poor use of fan service.
Aside from that, I thought Deadpool & Wolverine was pretty good. I’d rate the movie a 9/10.
I agree with most your comment but Deadpool and wolverine made all the same mistakes as MoM and others. Just look at Human Torch and Sabertooth. The other cameo characters get only 15 minutes of screen time AT MOST and nearly less than 10 lines of dialogue each. In Blade's case, just repeating old catchphrases from the Blade trilogy. Makes No Way Home look amazing by comparison. I respect your opinion but I feel this movie won't age well at all given a year, like what happened to Avatar
@@ManiacMayhem7256 that’s why I put it at 9/10. It was fun, but I didn’t like what they did with some of the cameos, which explains why I didn’t give it a 10.
@@noobmaster69426
Fair enough. Guess I misunderstood
@@ManiacMayhem7256why do you need old characters development? It was a great moment for audience to hype Blade and to see Gambit live. It’s a movie about D fighting W and hanging up with him later. We as audience got a hype moment and it’s enough for me.
@@nizmei8052
Tobey Spiderman got no development in No Way Home yet he was great there, far better than any of the cameos here. If you think asking for better use of characters equals to them needing an hour long arc dedicated to them, then I don't know what to tell you.
We saw Blade for roughly 15 minutes before he gets eaten by a giant CGI cloud monster. In that time he had less than 10 lines of dialogue as I said, mostly repeats of old catchphrases.
Damn. I think this the first time I’ve watched a video from CM where I fundamentally disagree about a film.
One of the main problems why they couldn't do something new after Avengers: Endgame is they didn't know what to do next after that. With the Infinity Saga, they somehow managed to steer in the right direction by creating a great cinematic theatrical experience that fans experienced in 2018 and 2019. After that, they didn't have any plan and they decided to try quantity, but it didn't work out. So they decided to focus on the old formula for success, to bet on what works. They called the Russos back, the old screenwriter, RDJ. Also, Deadpool and Wolverine also look like an attempt to evoke nostalgia and pleasant feelings with fan service. And you know... I think it will work in Doomsday and Secret Wars. I think we can get the same experience as Infinity War and Endgame, but only on a larger scale and with more emphasis on fan service and cameos with big nostalgia bait. Will they get a good story? Let's see, it all depends on how ready they are to go to such a lawsuit by bringing back RDJ and the old guys so that they can fix what didn't work with Kang and phases 4-5.
Going for quantity was such a terrible idea. It was squandering their strength and putting themselves on a level with their weakest competitors.
And they believed their own propaganda on girlbosses. Now I think the female superheroes could have worked way better than they turned out, but not with the entitled attitude they took, they needed to earn it like the male superheroes did. And no, "realizing you were brilliant all along and just have to believe in yourself" isn't earning it.
@@Treblaine Those male leads did the same stuff the women did, the audience simply could tolerate they more because they're not told to hate them the way they're told to hate women.
@@ShadowSonic2 You again. I recognize your non-stop bad takes.
People were not told to hate women.
People were told to hate men.
We were told by the entire mainstream media we have no choice, we had to like them and if we didn't we were the scum of the earth.
No one cares about your smears any more.
You've been falsely accusing people of being sexist any time they don't like anything with a woman in it since 2016 and it's not even working as shaming people into silence and it NEVER worked at shaming people into watching this mediocre tripe.
Majors’ legal troubles gave Feige his excuse to wipe the slate and go running back to the Russos, his beloved suck-ups. He was getting cold feet about a new direction.
A cameo showcase like No Way Home or Deadpool and Wolverine is fine once every two or three years. It becomes a problem when regular releases like Multiverse of Madness or Quantumania are hijacked for cameos and Multiverse setup.
Deadpool & Wolverine comes out the year after Quantumania yet you give it a pass. More like you just chose which ones entertained you better.
Marvel tried leaning into the "All New All Different" run with the last 5 years of movies. It's been an unmitigated disaster. Nostalgia is all they have.
Not really, Phase 4 was better than most of Phases 1 and 2.
I love how you single out women and nonwhites for abuse though
@ShadowSonic2 I am a woman you plank. ANAD was a disaster in print, and it was a disaster on film. Nothing to do with women or minorities, these are just bad, politically driven stories that never had an audience.
@ItDaBiz It actually wasn't, a lot of those titles sold great. And worked on screen too.
You need to stop listening to Grifters
The problem with that is that they dont execute it fully like What if? was a good idea but it became Capt Carter show, the only exception is Loki which had a solid conclusion.
@@ShadowSonic2 Phase 4 is in no way better than Phase 1 (Phase 2 is a bit more debatable). Phase 1 was very tight with each film feeling different but still working towards the same goal, the Avengers.
I'm not even really blaming Phase 4 for this, Phase 1 had 6 movies, 1 which is a sequel and final one basically being a sequel to the previous 5, over 4 years, while Phase 4 had 7 movies and 8 shows over 2 years. Its just impossible to maintain quality like that.
If a song can be considered good just for being catchy or danceable, then I don't see why a movie can't be considered good just for being a fun romp.
I don't think nostalgia is a problem unless it's hollow. When there's actual love and care put into the celebration of nostalgia, then I consider it good and worthwhile, even if it's not really saying something really new.
It's a fair enough mentality to have, but don't forget that there is a larger issue at play here, where nostalgia and recognizability is being used as a tool for profit. The actual quality of the media itself isn't as important to the studios as the profitability of it, and if there ends up being such a heavy focus on nostalgia and recognizability (which there currently is), then projects which don't meet that criteria suffer. Whether it be poor marketing because the nostalgia-bait gets more attention and funding, or whether projects just get brushed off altogether because it doesn't have those "profitable" elements that the studio is looking for. Nostalgia is a problem not just when it's hollow, but when it overshadows everything else, both within the media itself and when compared to other media
@@averythesuperhero I hear you, and I don't disagree that nostalgia is often utilized by corporations cynically. But there is a difference, as I said. Nostalgia is fine if it's coming from a place of genuine respect and admiration, and a desire to do something fun for the fans of that material. It doesn't have to be just member berries all the way down. I just don't want people to think Deadpool & Wolverine is the same as those kinds of cash grab nostalgia bait flicks because it isn't. There's a big difference between D&W vs. something like the Star Wars sequels, or Space Jam 2, or the Hobbit movies. If there's passion and respect, then I see no problem with nostalgia being the main ingredient in a fun movie. Nostalgia can be a really strong social bonding experience, which is what makes seeing movies like this in the theater so much fun. I think it's a good thing when done right. It's just when it's done in a soulless cynical manner by corporate committees that it becomes onerous to deal with. Not because there's anything wrong with nostalgia, but because we don't like people who don't understand us trying to connect with us superficially.
Because people don't rate it as such and also a catchy tune will most likely be catchy in 50 years. This movie will age worse than milk and will be absolute garbage in 5-10 years.
@@augustfreij9162 Uh people said the same thing about no way home years ago and that hasn't come true so now what?
@@jknetwork6211alright let's be real here nwh isn't that great of a movie but the parts that have held up and will continue to hold up are because of good writing and understanding of its characters, evolving tom's spidey while showing what makes the character interesting in the first place, putting him in horrible situations and seeing how he overcomes those odds, his sacrifice at the end as a price to pay for his immaturity at the start of the movie, etc, and the great ending which sets up a good starting point for a low stakes spidey story (which mind you they might still fuck up in the 4th one and make that part of the movie age really badly) the cameos while giving solid performances only serve to parrot old lines and references people liked, they felt awkward when it came out, feel more awkward now, and will feel even more awkard in 15+ years for a generation with no attachment to tobey or andrew, meanwhile, the cameos and references ARE dp&w, it's all it has, it's a movie with an expiration date, with a ticking clock and it will eventually become worthless and nonsensical for anyone not living in the current cultural zeitgeist
I mean if it makes them a billion dollars why wouldnt they
I don’t think it’s that deep, they wanted to celebrate the Fox movies and actors wanted to come back and play
Wasn't a particularly good celebration. Just ask Human Torch and Sabertooth 😅
I can't watch Force Awakens anymore because it comes off as a shallow recreation of a New Hope. That's the big thing I'm afraid that Marvel will turn to if this keeps up.
Guardians 3 made 850 million is that not a hit anymore
Not with bloated budgets. 🤷♀️
If you spend 400 million to make it and 200 million to advertise, you aren't turning enough of a profit for the companies.
They need to scale back production and look to how they market 🤷♀️ ads for movies are increasingly confusing and terrible-- targeted and concise ads would serve them better
@@christinazyck2910 well it says the budget was 250mil but I hear you
@@SilvLocs By MCU standards, "Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3" was only a moderate success. If you factor in the advertising budget, it was *barely* profitable!
It's a hit but it's a movie with the quality and buildup that should have easily cracked a billion $ and didn't.
Accounting for ticket price inflation, fewer people went and saw it than GotG 1 in 2014
Not to Disney it isn't, not anymore. Endgame made almost 3 billion dollars at the box office. No Way Home made almost 2 billion. And DP&W is on its way to make a solid billion dollars. 850 million isn't the kind of the numbers the studio is looking for anymore. If they can make billions of dollars on something, that's what they're gonna aim for, and if that means nostalgia (NWH and DP&W) or doing what worked before (RDJ and the Russos returning), then that's what we're going to get.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
Nostalgic for nostalgia 😢
Best comment I've seen all week
Deadpool: Guys, can we stop with the multiverse thing? with all the variants? we tried, it didn't work out, let's just... take the L and move on.
Marvel 5 minutes later: SO ANYWAY A TONY STARK VARIANT IS DR DOOM!!!
The movie did the same thing though. It doesn't get better just because you make fun of it at the same time.
@@Renoistic I mean it was kinda the only way to bring deadpool back unless they just did it completely separate from the mcu like James Gunn's else world projects for DC. I do understand your point though.
"Marvel has a nostalgia problem and leans too much on the old"
"Crossing over with the Andrew Garfield spider-man would be an inspired choice"
How is that inspired exactly? It's just the same nostalgia pandering you were claiming to dislike
This isn’t the new MCU. Ryan and his team had pretty much full creative control. They wanted to send off the Fox universe as DP was created in it, ofc they're going to adress it and have fun with cameos.
No they didn't, everything they did had to be oked by Disney. This idea that Reynolds could defy them is nonsense
Not really. I mean Disney and specifically Fiege still have to give every bit of it the "OK", which they do for all of them.
@shadowsonic2 @xxxdestroyer in an interview the director and Ryan said they sent scripts to get approved and nothing they sent in got rejected. They said they were waiting for them to say no to jokes and ideas they had, but they never did. When the fox deal went down a few years ago, everyone was worried about Deadpool. The president of Disney said they will not touch Deadpool and let them do their thing.
@@awsome14619 Yes that's what I said, they had to get the ok (aka approval) for everything being done.
The better term to use is "creative lead", not control. Because control suggest authority of the final product, but that's Marvel's decision.
He doesn't get that. He's wrong about a lot of stuff.
What I find most fascinating is how short-sighted this nostalgia-fest is. It means that everything is curated to one generation who grew up with these characters/actors. And after that generation loses interest or the actors can no longer do their job, what's left? The generations after that will have no nostalgia for anything, because there was nothing new targeted at them coming out.
And about the movie - "show don't tell" is a rule that was clearly completely lost. This is what I imagine the writers' room like: "The timeline is dissolving? Better tell us, don't show us. Wolverine let his whole world down? Tell us, don't show us. Vanessa and Wade broke up? For the love of god, DON'T SHOW US!"
I understand where you were coming from, I don't think we're there yet. If they keep this up after secret Wars then it goes too far. Definitely starting to get on that borderline nostalgia dependency
I bet we will have the 90's team as the prime X-Men team.
Boring, the 80s team was better
@@ShadowSonic2more boring, 70s Team was better
@@ShadowSonic2 80's is iconic.
@@IceSkateUpHilll Imagine in a perfect world giant sized plus the original (7).
The 90's animated cartoon are the real X-Men, same with the 90's animated Batman, Spiderman, and Superman, those are the quintessential portrayals.
I’ve come to accept that this phase of the MCU is the nostalgia phase until Secret Wars.
It continues past then, then it’ll be a significant issue for me when watching a movie. But idk, I feel the MCU just looking back for a bit and exploring dreams the fans have wanted for years which result in crowd pleasing moments is not a bad idea as a one off.
It clear the suits no longer care about "the art" and only want safe bets that will get them their second yacht (the current one is dusty). They want zero risks and have no vision for the future. When Stan Lee and Steve Ditko were creating these characters do you think they were worried about being safe? Current exes are accountants with no passion or vision and it's causing them to not build anything for future generations to be nostalgic about. My kids looks back to old Vines or RUclips videos, not to movies because everything is sequels. Even my Gen X ass is watching RUclips and TicTok because that's were the creativity is. Maybe when my memory starts to fail I can enjoy the retreading of old stuff, but not yet.
RDJ coming back as Doom is a HUGE mistake. They will taint his legacy and miss the opportunity to do justice to one of the great Marvel villains. Yes, I am confident they will fuck him up.
Hollywood is having a nostalgia addiction, it’s not just Marvel and Disney didn’t even start the trend. Paramount was probably the rock that started the avalanche with Kingdom of the Crystal Skull in 2008.
Hollywood doubles down on what makes them money. People have a nostalgia problem.
And it took 2 weeks for mfs to switch up on Deadpool and Wolverine
Ikr I was thinking when I first saw it "wonder how long its guna take for everyone to say its terrible"
Its funny because its kinda the oposite of how it used to be with the MCU being able to build up new characters and make it look easy
Its funny how Marvel sold their biggest characters, X-Men, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, had other studios use them to revitalize interest in superhero films (Original X-Men trilogy & Sam Raimi's Spider-Man), then when they were loosing steam, used their lesser known characters to build a cinematic universe, and later buy back most of their properties.
I think that's actually easier, it's more difficult getting these huge A list characters right who come with such high expectations. So the future will be a huge test for them, luckily F4 actually looks promising so far but we'll see.
@@XxXDestroyer It helps that the FF were never done well by others to begin with, so the mentality is "Disney can't do worse than FOX ever did".
@@ShadowSonic2 Yeah definitely helps, especially with how much fans despise that last attempt in 2015 lol.
Is it REALLY an “nostalgia addiction” when the fox X-men actors have contracts until 2025 so their lowkey OBLIGATED to come back if needed and that DP&W was a LOVE LETTER AND FINALLY GOODBYE to the Fox era?
I'm concerned with how Deadpool's gonna be integrated into rest of the MCU. Is he just now gonne swear or dismember people? It'd be funny if he gets censored anytime he does and annoyed by it.
That is a really funny way to go with it, but really only works for one movie. I doubt he'll ever be a main member. He'll be cameo fodder himself.
Marvel isn’t relying on nostalgia. We are literally in the multiverse saga and everything is leading up to secret wars,it makes perfect sense to bring back all the legacy characters. There not just cameos, they serve a purpose in the story. I don’t get why people are so upset with bringing back old characters, they literally asked for this. People wanted to see Tobey and Andrew in the mcu, people wanted Deadpool and Wolverine team up, people wanted the Russo brothers to come back. They gave us all of that but Nobody in the marvel fandom can be satisfied and it sucks.
Had the Marvels post credits scene not happened, I would have called this the curtain call for the Fox universe, outside of Wolverine and Deadpool.
Now it feels like we are building towards a giant soft reboot post Avengers 5. So I feel like we will be leaning into the FoXmen for a bit longer.
I think another big problem Disney has created for themselves is that they've kind of given all their existing franchises a fitting farewell with Endgame, No Way Home and now Deadpool 3, they can keep trying to milk nostalgia but we've all had our cathartic goodbye to all the heros we loved so unless they can create something genuinely amazing bringing back an old actor or character will only work a few more times at best
Every superhero movie ever uses nostalgia as a driving force
The MCU's first movie, Iron Man, was literally about a character nobody cared about and was a huge success.
Not true. Like at all
I liked No Way Home partly because of how well they handled the nostalgia while still letting Tom shine. The other two Spider-Men don’t distract from the fact that the movie is 100% Tom’s. Plus, Tom gives his best performance yet in it. My only big issue is the fact that it basically made it so Tom can’t get his own version of some of Spider-Man’s most iconic villains. Tom has already faced off against Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Electro, Sandman, and the Lizard, but not his own versions of them. We don’t get to see what those characters would have been like in the MCU. Even if he got his own takes on any of those villains, the impact would be completely absent. Even the post-credits scene ruins the prospect of Venom by shoving a piece of the Tom Hardy symbiote into the mix.
*Deadpool just felt like one two and a half hour appeal for Fox Marvel movies to be justifiably folded into the Disney family but it honestly had little to say or add on its own. And maybe it is a necessary prerequisite before X-men movies can be rolled out.*
It’s one of those movies I probably will not watch ever again since it had no real story or message.
Though I must say I rather prefer the way Spider-man was added to the mix in Civil War instead.
This movie is awesome but it’s true I can see how it gets stuck with the Nostalgia from time to time like when the battle with Sabertooth was over so quickly, I choked on my soda while watching it. Sabertooth is supposed to be a vicious fighter and he needs more screen time than that. I certainly don’t want to see only Hugh as Wolverine for thirty more years. I strongly look forward to a day when we can have a new Wolverine with a different actor and story arc. Doing different X-men stuff also sounds good. This is exactly why I respect your channel. I definitely hope for Marvel to be open to more new ideas and movies as time goes on. Hopefully they will make something really different when they get around to a new X-men film. I also agree that Andrew Garfield needs more attention like a new solo film where he’s not just a guest star. The dude is still is very young and I want to see his Spider-man go places. He would also a great candidate for a Black cat or Sliver Sable team-up in my opinion.
Man I really loved the first Deadpool but have had no desire to keep going. "Memba this?" is the worst concept for modern media.
It is very much like the comics industry.
People love nostalgia so they will be sold nostalgia. It's how it goes. Look at music, books, video games. They tend to pull people by the member berries.
to be fair MCU is mimicking the same route of comic books when the stories becomes very big and interconneceted that start to cater only to people who consumes all of them and not someone of them casually. Every big story is almost incomplete without having multiple issue from different characters
the more bloated its becomes the easier to mess it all up sooner or later
Hey!! Ms Marvel was the high point of The Marvels, she's charming, funny and relatable!
AVI ARAD ruined a lot of Marvel movies in the early 2000s
Mainly...
* Daredevil (2003)
* The Punisher (2004)
* Elektra (2005)
* Fantastic Four (2005)
* X-Men: The Last Stand
And now he's gonna ruin...
* Borderlands
* Kraven the Hunter
* Venom: The Last Dance
* The Legend of Zelda
* Naruto
As long Arad lives, there's no hope
He even ruined Spider-Man 3
@@icetray2727
#IBlameAviArad
Oh no not legend of Zelda😢
@@icetray2727 Despite the production's issues, Spider-Man 3 is farm from being bad, especially compared to all the other failed super-hero movies of the 2000s.
You make fantastic points, and great video 👍🏼 As an avid fan of these films and in keeping up with most production updates and any info that comes along, when it comes to the repurposing of the Fox universe I personally see them using all of it as a Trojan horse to keep us engaged and make an easy profit while they figure out how to introduce a completely new cast to play the X-men in the MCU, while still incorporating elements from the original universes (Mcavoy/Stewart) One example in DP&W that really stood out to me as a tease is the near end scene where DP tells Wolverine that he is the best Wolverine, yes he is speaking about the character being the worst Wolverine variant, but I personally saw it as Ryans way of saying that no matter who they put under that mask in the future, if ever, he will always be the best version of that character in his heart. You make an excellent point however that the more they use elements from the Fox universe, the harder they make it for audiences to care for a new cast and the further they stray from the need or care to create X-men that are native to the MCU. If done correctly though, I can see this being a very successful soft reboot for the MCU building up to Secret Wars, by which point we will have hopefully been given a new version of the X-men.
Really fun video! I had a lot of fun with Deadpool & Wolverine, but I'm pretty easy to please. I like listening to more nuanced discussions like this!
Also, side note-- do you have a letterboxd people can follow? I love that app so much haha
Nostalgia = No new ideas
I heard that Wesley Snipes' cameo sparked a petition to cancel the Blade reboot in favor of a proper Blade 4.
Never happen
I doubt it's going to get off the ground in any case.
I'd watch that over a new Blade.
I don’t think the reboot blade movie will ever leave development hell
The numbers show that people just want nostalgia, they’re just giving the people what they want. It’s a shame they don’t give us new things to get attached to that they need to rely on this.
1:03 what about Guardians of the Galaxy 3
That's great to hear about the reception to your comic!
For years I was desperate for Disney to get the rights to X-Men and FF so they could appear in the MCU. But by 2021 I dreaded it. Now I think Spider-man NWH and Deadpool & Wolverine have set a bad precedent. We'll never get a new MCU Norman Osbourne and maybe not even an MCU Doctor Doom. Just cameo rehashes of old actors we liked 20 years ago.
Fr. I just wanted a new X-men cast. I love Hugh jackman but I want to see someone else play him. I’m glad they chose a new fantastic 4 cast at least.
Stop right there Captain Midnight. Wolverine and Deadpool is NOT "Nostagia Addiction'. More like they made a lot of Marvel related Sony pictures or from other studios other than Marvel Studios and we saw No Way Home Spiderman so they thought 'why not do something similar to those prior Marvel related characters whom we now re-own the rights too. It is not some Addiction to Nostalgia. I think most people who watched like the fact they did that and brought back cameos for the originals.
I liked how the added Punisher, but yes it would have been great to see one or more of those Punishers. Dolf, Tomas Jane, etc. I get why they didn't. Ben Affleck too, can he fit in those Daredevil Tights? Probably not or needs an expanding Spandex suit who then says 'Why can't I get a large coat like Gambit' answer: cuz Daredevil don't wear coats says Punisher who does wear coats occasionally.
Just like for the new Captain America movie they will be bringing in prior Hulk movie cast members. I know they would have used William Hurt for Thunderbolt Ross had he not passed away and Hurt would have become Red Hulk. I like how they did that.
"Wolverine and Deadpool is NOT "Nostagia Addiction'."
You're right, it's gutless fanservice
The main issue is that nostalgia has its limits. You can't rely on it for too long.
I loved Deadpool and wolverine and plus the movie made a billion dollars baby.
It had Hugh Jackman in the costume, any movie doing that would make money
@@ShadowSonic2 not any movie could do that
@@TevyaSmolka If he'd been in "The Marvels", it would have made a billion
@@ShadowSonic2 lol 😂 maybe but i doubt that.
I always appreciate your candor in these in videos. I saw it with a friend who loved it to bits. Not that I didn’t enjoy it, but the joy I initially felt went away pretty quickly. The only two people I know who have seen it are obsessed, so I don’t feel I can speak critically about the film with them I really really want the MCU to focus on new characters, I need something fresh that stays with me a long time after the initial excitement goes away. I really enjoy MoonKnight, Shang Chi, and Ms. Marvel; I feel those characters were very overshadowed by the disappointment of the projects that came out around them.
True they do although it does make sense to do with the whole Multiverse Saga going on. Besides that it may be cause in something like J.K Simmons Far From Home appearance that they truely think the actor is perfect almost too perfect for the role and HAVE to bring him back with J.K as Jameson likely being the only exception of that
You seem to be forgetting that this is called The Multiverse Saga. Because of that we are going to see many more nostalgic characters returning to the big screen. Once secret wars is over, I believe we will get a full reboot of the mcu.
Lol if i knew that blade wasn't made by fox I would be annoyed as well
I honestly thought he was from Fox as well.
I rewatched the orginal x men movies and was reminded of how original those films were. Not in story and characters, but in tone. It wasn’t about cameos or big action set pieces every 5 minutes. It was really focusing on our main characters, hints of their back stories and how it affects them now, the interactions these characters had with eachother. Similar to phase 1 and 2 MCU movies. They really displayed the duality of magneto and Charles perfectly and how morally complex it was for each side. MCU needs to get back to those types of grounded storylines. Not every movie needs to be a massive universe ending event
It's because of Disney that we live in this era of ARTISTIC BANKRUPTCY
This is exactly what I’ve been thinking about after seeing Deadpool Wolverine. Where are the new stories (good stories) that move the pieces forward and make me excited for new sci-fi/Action entertainment not just with in the MCU. You could say this about a lot of other brands out there today.
Memba when Deadpool and Wolverine did that thing? I memba
Mamba chewbacca again??
Member iron man????
I CLAPPED I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW IT!!!!
This is the multiverse saga so nostalgia is going to be a big part of it, the new mutant saga they are aiming for will definitely start rebooting thing. I think you’ll get your wish after this saga is done.
Andrew Garfield Spidey and Ryan Reynolds Deadpool would be fuckin wild lmao
I'd be all for it.
Won’t happen though because Spider-Man will never co-star in an R-rated movie
sony don't likey
I love your 🎶 Captaaaain Midddnight! 🎵 intro and I always say it out loud when your videos start 😂 Great video!
The film was funny and yeah it was totally nostalgic but I had a grin on my face, It was a love letter to the old school comic book films.
Old school comic book movies usually had stakes, and maybe even some heart, that didn't require you to care about 20+ year old stories.
facts, people really just want to hate this movie for being successful
@@LegendXD00 We hate it for being obviously lazily made and no original concept whatsoever
@@kiratwo4u Got it so you hate this movie for being successful like I said. A “lazily made” film with “no original concept whatsoever” wouldn’t make over a billion dollars in less than two weeks
@@LegendXD00 original
Tbh I don't mind the Multiverse idea. It's a great way to connect all the Marvel movies. The problems I had is with the disney+ shows. They should just focus on the movies
To be real, Disney has a nostalgia addiction
Some of you seem to fail to notice that the entirety of Marvel’s comics is heavily dipped in nostalgia. How many times heroes have died and been brought back? How many times have they moved forward the birth date/origin date of heroes just to justify keeping them around and kicking?
Marvel has a problem with letting go and evolving, it has a problem with creating new stuff and use it for the next 50 years before going at it again. As much as I love the classic mutants or Tony Stark, they’re characters born in the 50s/60s and are still around looking 40 yo. And they keep coming back. At least with Krakoa, the mutants had reason to be around seemingly forever. But how is it that Tony dies and comes back constantly,or even never ages really?
And as some people said, the main issue lies in the audience that keeps asking for that.
We needed this win. D&W doing good. It's just going to fuel the MCU moving forward.
The MCU was never in danger
@GerrardBonittono way home
@GerrardBonittoGotg3
@GerrardBonitto It never was. And Disney wasn't losing billions either. It was all fake propaganda
While I enjoyed the movie, I disagree. I think its success is only going make Disney take the wrong ideas and double down on the unnecessary cameos
Id watch DP3 again just for the opening scene. Chef's Kiss
Yes, they do, and it’s extremely early for them to be nostalgia-baiting.
I’d love for them to do “A Spider-Island” or Wolverines' “Secret Daughter,” both of which write amazing stories.
Just like how the did Secret War and such? I don’t want them to touch those stories until they show they can handle it
@@Werewolf.with.Internet.Accessi don’t want any more diverse “legacy” character
Reading reviews at 2am is a great way to ruin your day before it even starts...
Anybody notice that Spider-Man: Far From Home is the only MCU film that crossed over a billion since Captain Marvel, which itself promoted itself as required viewing, that didn’t pay heavy homage & cameos to films prior
Why does a movie have to make a billion dollars to be a success?
@@Zooted504
I never even said that
I’m just pointing out that except for FFH and Joker the only superhero films that made over a billion since Captain Marvel released have had heavy nostalgic elements associated with them
And nobody likes that movie cuz it ruined Spider-Man until NWH
@@Sjono captain marvel was decently recent... I'm not sure your point is very strong.
@@Grimmaculate
Captain Marvel released 5 years ago
And since then the only superhero films to cross a billion have been
Avengers: Endgame - nostalgia laden
Spider-Man: Far From Home
Joker
Spider-Man: No Way Home - Nostalgia laden
Deadpool & Wolverine - Nostalgia laden
Dr Strange and the Multiverse of Madness got the closest to a billion since Captain Marvel and it too had nostalgia laden casting with Prof X. Come to think of it even FFH had nostalgia casting via JJ Jameson even though that was post credits.
My point should be very clear. There’s a trend where superhero movies can’t cross over a billion nowadays without having to resort to nostalgia laden casting and paying homage to previous films.
In the five years since Captain Marvel only Joker and Far From Home(JJ cameo notwithstanding) have been able to do so, which hasn’t been the case before Captain Marvel released.
I have the physical version of Binary sea and i love it
I'm pretty sure they're still rebooting the X-Men in the mcu. They just want to use the old versions of Deadpool and Wolverine for Secret Wars because they're popular
I think the fox xmen will have their own universe from the end credits of marvels. It will be a plot device that gets forgotten of destroyed 😅
Channing Tatums Gambit deserves his own solo X-Men movie
I feel like most RUclipsrs say this movie wasn’t funny just to sound cool. It was a really easy movie to enjoy.
Not gonna lie, I went into this movie really really wanting that to be the case, and I just hated it - and that’s fine. Don’t assume people have hidden agendas sometimes they just don’t like something that you love
I think people missed the point of your comment lol
At a certain point, it's just overload. Sure, I enjoy it when movies reference older stuff I like, but the fact remains, I HAVE ACCESS TO THAT OLDER STUFF. What I am watching a new movie for is NEW things, or at least fresh takes on old concepts. If all you do is stuff your movies full of nostalgic references to older films, at a certain point, I'll just watch the originals and revisit why THEY were good, as opposed to your new ones, which suck.
Member berry media is the name of the game of late.
X-Men ‘97 hit the sweet spot for me. It felt nostalgic (brought me right back to watching it on the couch as a kid), while moving forward. Just give them the money to make a feature length animated X-Men.