In "Why do some CS grads look down on programming?" I answer a programming question. A podcast version of the channel can be found here: anchor.fm/fredrik-christenson
Fredrik answered the social component but not the question, why especially German CS students might look down on programming. I am a German CS student at RWTH Aachen University (one of the best (not to brag) CS unis in Germany) and I experience this phenomenon every day. My uni values theoretical computer science very highly. There is tons of math subjects and we're basically prooving stuff like the completeness and correctness of of the lambda calculus, that an automaton recognises the se language as a regex or that Knapsack can be reduced to SAT in polynomial time every day. There is not a lot of programming. In the first term we have one mandatory coding subject (Java, Prolog, Haskell) and later on, we have to implement basic components of an OS in C (stack, heap, memory allocation...) but that's it for mandatory subjects. Compared to the math stuff, all other programming modules are very, very easy to most people. Professors also rare use code examples and just put up pseudo code, as the language does not matter but the algorithm. I guess the key in understamding this is, that our degrees are "of Science" and not "of engineering". They want Turing's, not Torvald's.
I switched from FH Aachen, not RWTH but still more theoretical than others, to a university that has a more practical focus and my life got instantly better for it. More projects from early on and while you still got taught the theoretical backgrounds everything was more practice-oriented in general. I don't think it really matters if it's language specific code or pseudo-code. What is important is understanding the concepts and how to put them into practice. But you'll need to put them into practice at some point otherwise it's all just theoretical. I wouldn't say computer science is entirely science and not engineering, it's kind of a hybrid of both. It is applied math, logic and physics to a degree. It all depends on what aspect you personally focus on and what you do with it. I'm an engineer but I'm also a scientist and a researcher.
I have been working as a developer for almost 3 decades. At my jobs I found out that about 10% of the people did 90% of the work. What is more all the "project managers", "architects", etc. did not know how to program. And there is quite a simple explanation for this. Programming, especially being a good programmer is extremely difficult, and it pays relatively low for the effort needed. To the contrary many programmers see "project managers", etc. who obviously have no idea how to program, making a lot more money. Add to this, that now you have more team members who don't know how to program like scrum masters , etc..all making good money, it is no wonder people don't want to program.
There is a different between programming and coding. Programming involves more than just writing down code. It involves more of the engineering and planning process. As a German computer scientist I enjoy the practical aspects of programming and computer science. Understanding a problem, finding a solution and implementing it. I do rather specialized yet broad custom aspects of development. So while I'm very practical in my approach I'm not the classical code monkey that just chips away at databases or just repetitively using the same algorithms and solutions. I don't know a single person who looks down on "programming". I do poke fun at people that just "code" without a broader picture in mind. Web developers, backend-/frontend-/fullstack-developers it's all just the modern often web-based approach to doing the same stuff over and over. There is value to the more theoretical parts of computer science and it helps enormously to understand them. But in the end what counts is how you put it into practice. I can create tools and worlds out of nothing. It can be a really creative cathartic outlet. I also enjoy taking cutting edge technology or even old technology and using it in ways it wasn't meant to or just finding new ways of utilizing things.
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How can one possibly imagine becoming an "architect" without any programming experience?
Stupidity.
Fredrik answered the social component but not the question, why especially German CS students might look down on programming.
I am a German CS student at RWTH Aachen University (one of the best (not to brag) CS unis in Germany) and I experience this phenomenon every day.
My uni values theoretical computer science very highly. There is tons of math subjects and we're basically prooving stuff like the completeness and correctness of of the lambda calculus, that an automaton recognises the se language as a regex or that Knapsack can be reduced to SAT in polynomial time every day. There is not a lot of programming. In the first term we have one mandatory coding subject (Java, Prolog, Haskell) and later on, we have to implement basic components of an OS in C (stack, heap, memory allocation...) but that's it for mandatory subjects. Compared to the math stuff, all other programming modules are very, very easy to most people.
Professors also rare use code examples and just put up pseudo code, as the language does not matter but the algorithm. I guess the key in understamding this is, that our degrees are "of Science" and not "of engineering". They want Turing's, not Torvald's.
I switched from FH Aachen, not RWTH but still more theoretical than others, to a university that has a more practical focus and my life got instantly better for it. More projects from early on and while you still got taught the theoretical backgrounds everything was more practice-oriented in general.
I don't think it really matters if it's language specific code or pseudo-code. What is important is understanding the concepts and how to put them into practice. But you'll need to put them into practice at some point otherwise it's all just theoretical.
I wouldn't say computer science is entirely science and not engineering, it's kind of a hybrid of both. It is applied math, logic and physics to a degree. It all depends on what aspect you personally focus on and what you do with it. I'm an engineer but I'm also a scientist and a researcher.
I have been working as a developer for almost 3 decades. At my jobs I found out that about 10% of the people did 90% of the work. What is more all the "project managers", "architects", etc. did not know how to program. And there is quite a simple explanation for this. Programming, especially being a good programmer is extremely difficult, and it pays relatively low for the effort needed. To the contrary many programmers see "project managers", etc. who obviously have no idea how to program, making a lot more money. Add to this, that now you have more team members who don't know how to program like scrum masters , etc..all making good money, it is no wonder people don't want to program.
There is a different between programming and coding. Programming involves more than just writing down code. It involves more of the engineering and planning process.
As a German computer scientist I enjoy the practical aspects of programming and computer science. Understanding a problem, finding a solution and implementing it. I do rather specialized yet broad custom aspects of development. So while I'm very practical in my approach I'm not the classical code monkey that just chips away at databases or just repetitively using the same algorithms and solutions.
I don't know a single person who looks down on "programming". I do poke fun at people that just "code" without a broader picture in mind. Web developers, backend-/frontend-/fullstack-developers it's all just the modern often web-based approach to doing the same stuff over and over.
There is value to the more theoretical parts of computer science and it helps enormously to understand them. But in the end what counts is how you put it into practice.
I can create tools and worlds out of nothing. It can be a really creative cathartic outlet. I also enjoy taking cutting edge technology or even old technology and using it in ways it wasn't meant to or just finding new ways of utilizing things.