The biggest issue is that there is a hardcoded 8 knot speed limit for all boats on the river which means that if a ferry from Applecross to Elizabeth Quay existed, the distance covered would be significantly shorter than catching a bus to Canning Bridge train station and then the train to Elizabeth Quay, but the time taken to complete the journey would be significantly longer because the ferry can't go faster than 8 knots. This limit is in place to stop the wake from boats from eroding the riverbanks.
Ferries linked to good bus routes would be more useful outside the CBD, where PT options are limited. Applecross to EQ will surely always be faster by bus + train.
@@sebastiandavies-slate5255 Not really. You have Canning bridge train station basically in Applecross. The next stop is the city. Only benefit in the proximity would be to travel from Canning bridge to UWA and hospital. People would then get off the train line or buses in the area and travel to UWA/hospital. Melville should be thought of too I reckon. Or East Freo. But UWA/hospital with a shuttle service is the best option I can see. Canning into the city or UWA into the city wouldn't work.
@@YewanHolmes It will relieve some pressure on the 950. But there is an easier way to solve that problem. Put an extra bus on. 950 is Morley to UWA/hosp through the city. Other routes down Alexander Dr go to Curtin. Maybe they can a run bus service direct from Curtin to UWA (the infamous knowledge arc). Or Wanneroo Rd to UWA/hosp avoiding the city. These are all easier to do than putting a ferry in. But I do think that people south of the river may find it really timely to avoid the commute into the city from Canning bridge and then the journey out. People would save 10-15 min on the journey. Is that enough though?
Canning Bridge *Station* to UWA would be an incredible shortcut in the PT network if the connection could be made. It's currently about 45 minutes from Canning Bridge to the southern part of UWA campus by PT. A ferry would take 15-20 minutes, based on the speed of the current line. Huge time saving. Plus there are a lot of buses that travel down there. With a good connection it could be a very useful new link.
Yeah, I'd say that's one of the few actual good connections on the map that was shared. As an aside, for connections that aren't faster, or at least as quick as, what it currently takes, no one will ride them apart from enthusiasts like me.
Or Melville to UWA/hospital... Crossing the river is the main feasible route. You could have shuttle service from Nedlands to hospital so patients visitors and workers would use it. Agreed. But you don't need service from Canning Bridge to city or. Nedlands to the city. Fact is that UWA and hospital is very well serviced by bus services currently. On a transport note I see issues from Mandurah line to Fremantle. Quickest journey is to get off at Canning Bridge or Murdoch and catch a bus which is really slow. Another issue is how the area south of Fremantle is serviced and then how it connects to Cockburn Central. Then obviously north through to Cockburn central.
@@BDub2024Would the Melville end leave from Point Walter or Attadale or somewhere? I don't think there's a bus to Point Walter at the moment, so introducing the two together would be very useful. Maybe to Dalkeith rather than UWA though?
@@BDub2024 Mandurah line to Fremantle will be improved with Metronet Stage 2, which includes using the old freight rail right of way to connect Cockburn to Fremantle. Because there's nothing WA Labor likes more than reactivating old rights of way for heavy rail. That of course is assuming Labor stays in power, Liberals will probably have their own plans.
Great video - few cities have bodies of water to utilise, and even fewer take full advantage of them. Was in Sydney last summer and took it more than a few times :)
Good comment - an example is Hobart, which has awful traffic for its size and has only 3 bridge crossings of the river yet until recently had no public ferries since the 1960s-70s. They brought in a trial ferry in the last few years and were so pleased with the results they are now planning to build 6 new ferry terminals. Hobart is lucky they have so many low-hanging fruit to pick, they also have a former railway easement running through a good portion of the city which could very cheaply and effectively be turned into a light rail line, and they once had a very popular and extensive tram system for a city of its size.
In some ways it is more similar to here in Brisbane. Brisbane’s meandering river means ferry trips are commonly as far or even longer than road travel. Ferries become the most picturesque mode, but it has limited utility to commuter travel prioritising time, as boats are also typically slower moving. Home and work destinations have to both be in good locations to really make it viable. That said ridership is still high because it’s a lot nicer and stress free than bus travel. Perth might be the same where you’d get a dedicated but niche rider group.
Perth has low density and a lot of parkland near river. Also going west to Fremantle are the wealthier suburbs (in particular north of river Nedlands to Mosman Park) and they drive and don't take buses or trains much. Also low density and actually serviced. I wonder if ocean ferry could go from Hillarys and Rockingham to Fremantle. But probably too far and rocky. Fremantle would need to become a bigger business centre.
going east from Perth to Maylands and Bayswater (if you have map). It snakes around a lot. But Maylands is only high density near train station. Riverton has a number of units and there is a lot of congestion on Great eastern hwy into the city that would make it slower. Now a new train line at Redcliffe station, in which buses can be directed too. Bayswater and Ashfield have trains.
@@kingcoong you have to think of the route. City to UWA is quick via Mounts Bay road near the foot of Kings Park. Its non stop at 60km to UWA from Mounts Hospital basically. A bit of a build up in peak hour but thats it. You're referring to Thomas St which goes past Perth Mod, over the rail line and freeway exchange to Leederville. That road is congested. But building a ferry from the city to UWA will have no impact. People build up that road as they're mainly driving into the city and West Perth from the northern suburbs. City to UWA/hospital is already very well serviced by buses and they've considered trams and trackless trams in the past too. What is needed possibly is UWA/hospital precinct to south of the river. Be it Melville and Canning Bridge. But that's it. Basically shuttle between UWA and Canning Bridge. You then need a shuttle service from the river to the hospital due to distance. Also need an express lane for buses going down Canning hwy in peak time as traffic now builds up and the congestion is getting worse due to multiple high rise towers being built. Same is going to happen on the Como side too within walking distance. But you don't need Canning bridge into the city as there is already a train station there.
@@kingcoong as my other message says. different people go from city to UWA/hospital. Compared to those that drive down Thomas St (the busy road). So both routes don't impact each other. UWA to city is a waste of money and time. Bus much quicker. Remembering buses leave from Bus Port esplanade, Bus station and St George's Tce. To go by ferry you'd need to walk big distance to the ferry jetty in elizabeth quay. so people would just grab the closer bus.
I think the main issue is that there is no density around the potential tourist nodes. And if there’s density there needs to be more amenities/reasons to use it. For example, a university, hospitals, businesses etc
Density is gradually coming. UWA is already a major precinct with a short bus connection to the large medical precinct just north of it. Applecross near Canning Bridge has emerged with several apartment towers and more to come. Burswood’s northern peninsula is slated for massive residential development including dozens of apartment towers. Burswood is also potentially getting its own quay precinct as well. It’s a matter of when rather than if at this point of ferry expansions, though one issue would be the speed limits.
We don't want density along the river though. Perth is known for beautiful parkland along the river. I think UWA and hospital precinct is very well serviced by buses. Knowledge arc and light rail won't happen now. But what is the only positive would be from UWA/hospitals to the southern foreshore at Canning Bridge (where there is a train station) or Melville. It would need extensive parking too. It would be a one way journey as people in Melville may want to go to city and UWA/hospital. But no one is wanting to go south of the river, except in the afternoon from UWA/hospital and city.
There is high density around Riverton that is a possible. Long term at Optus Stadium/Belmont Park. But that has train station. Coode St jetty is a possibility. OR Como jetty but you have the long walk and low density living. Canning Bridge maybe but there is the train line already. Matilda bay for UWA and hospital is a possibility, but would need shuttle service to hospital. Melville? maybe? but you'll need lots of carparks along the river which isn't exactly ideal is it. Wealthy people through Mosman park to nedlands just don't take public transport much - fact.
@@BDub2024 You mean YOU, don't want density. The reason Perth urban culture sucks is its lack of density around the river, too much unused grass everywhere.
@@jarrad347 People don't want density around Perth. No one wants public open space removed and replaced with tall buildings right up the river. Is that progress? I don't think so. We can have high density in some areas, but there is no reason for along the river or beach. In the end it mainly benefits property developers. Instead higher development needs to be based around major stations and shopping centres. Unfortunately, the major shopping centres in Perth are not near transport with exception of Carousel. Still Karrinyup is building lots of units. Morley has been planning for it. But both major hubs are serviced by buses, as are Whitfords, Booragoon and Innaloo... even Belmont etc. Fact is that river and beach areas are not usually near major transport routes with exception of Canning Bridge, Perth CBD... The western suburbs won't tolerate major highrise and it won't happen. Scarborough is heavily packed in increasingly, but that is causing major congestion with no train line nearby and a slow bus route on crowded scarborough beach road. So things are more complex than ripping up parkland and sticking in high rise. What an exciting way of thinking about things. Lets all get rid of dullsville by allowing property developers make millions and we lose a public asset too. Wow.
I think it was a mistake to dismiss Brisbane as a point of comparison, the CityCat successfully changed the way Brisbane viewed the river, I gather this is the exact goal Perth is looking to achieve. The CityCat had the same issue as Perth where a comparable trip by car isn’t that much slower than a trip by CityCat. Brisbane also did some water based transit oriented development that was used in the 90s to revitalise the riverfront after the port moved down to the mouth of the river that had some successes and drawbacks that are worth exploring. Namely, because the 80s and 90s weren’t a high point for public transit and walkable planning the units were largely not mixed use and focused towards the luxury market which was a mistake, newer developments at Bretts Wharf have improved greatly on this. On the positive side the CityCat resulted in heaps of Brisbane’s riverfront being reclaimed for walking and cycle paths, it really has changed how residents of Brisbane view the river, as somewhere to meet and gather rather than to ignore.
Interesting video - I wish Perth all the best! I live in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. We've got a two-line ferry service (both serving the same downtown terminal, and different ones across the Harbour). Our government plans on adding two new line(s) that will serve the downtown dock and three new ones. I wish I could get behind it... But the first line will go from a spot beside a freight railway that already heads downtown... Surely a train would have more capacity, better frequency, a faster speed, and the possibility for intermediary stops at key destinations... I don't think Perth has the same issue, though, so I can see new ferry lines as a good solution there.
Perth is a hot climate based around wide river and ocean. Its also a city where large amounts of people drive to work. Outside peak there isn't much congestion and its much quicker and easier to travel by car. That said the buses are good, but the density is low and you're talking about long distances and waiting for buses (which are often empty) outside peak hour. But a very good bus and train network in Perth. I don't think ferry will eventuate in any details. Obvious would be crossing the river from south to north (in the area from melville to nedlands where there is the university and hospital precinct). In Perth there isn't much density along river at all and lots of parkland. Also where the obvious places are there is already a train line. But as I said crossing the river in the part of the river west of the city is appealing as there aren't many bridges. But the people in that area are largely wealthy and they just don't take public transport.
UWA/hospital to Canning Bridge may ultimately make the most sense. I reckon they may need to develop some bus lanes and keep the traffic flowing in Canning Hwy, Stirling Hwy and Great Eastern Hwy. If the congestion can be reduced and the bus gets priority then that takes away incentives from having ferries.
I actually took that ferry from Elizabeth Quay to South Perth last month for maybe the first time in 20+ years. It was a really nice way of getting to the zoo. I believe there is space reserved for a South Perth station on the Mandurah line but I'm not sure why it hasn't been built. A lot of apartments are in that area, and many new apartment buildings are under construction.
You missed when speaking about Applecross is that it is one of the fastest densifying parts of Perth currently, with apartment towers popping up or being proposed yearly.
I'm interested in how Perth better deal with transport to the northern corridor. Serviced by rail past Joondalup, I see a massive gap through to East Wanneroo... from Mirrabooka Kingsway Darch Gnangara Banksia Grove. There has been talk of spurs from the proposed Malaga station (on Ellenbrook line) but that would be an indirect route into the city via Bayswater. Or could there be extensive tunnelling from Mirrabooka Ballajura area to the north. Use Reid Hwy corridor for rail connecting the lines from Joondalup to Midland.
Perth has never been properly planned out. Just endless population growth through endless mass migration for no reason. Bunbury, Geraldton, Albany, Karratha etc could've been large regional cities, rather than endlessly growing Perth. We see both Mandurah & Rockingham are failures because they're essentially just outer suburbs of Perth now.
@@mikespearwood3914 Didn't they following the Stephenson plan (corridors). There has been improvements with the growth of Herdsman-Osborne Park and Innaloo for example. But govts still want to save money no matter what with transport planning that impacts development. Years ago the train line didn't go through Innaloo due to cost and environmental reasons (Herdsman lake). Morley should have got the underground rail as the previous Lib govt proposed (but may have been a long wait!). Instead the Morley station is 2km from the Galleria. A huge missed opportunity as this was a major chance for a big centre of shopping, offices and apartments, with employment. Instead the train to Ellenbrook branches off at Bayswater, which can never develop into a hub. Basically, that choice has contributed into further centralisation into Perth, instead of mini CBDs. Karrinyup and Garden City are missed opportunities.
I lived in San Francisco where there is an extensive ferry network and the transit connections at both ends are essential to feed the ferries, particularly from the North Bay where there is no train access into San Francisco and the Golden Gate Bridge is both crowded and expensive to cross. In fact, the North Bay's commuter rail line terminates at the ferry pier which completes the journey into San Francisco. The San Francisco Bay can be a tempestuous body of water which can affect ferry service but which doesn't appear to be the case in Perth. I do like the idea of an expanded ferry network for Perth. Looking at the geography, I think the better routes are those that cross from one shore to the other where there are relatively few bridges, rather than routes connecting two points on the same side of the river, to your point about smooth shores. Canning Bridge, Applecross, East Fremantle, and Mend's St to UWA are good examples. It's a big school with 30,000 students and staff. Ferries to Optus Stadium and Belmont Park from most points would be good options to avoid event day traffic and parking. East Fremantle to Elizabeth Quay could be good especially if a fast ferry is used and faster than the train. Canning Bridge may not be a great option to Elizabeth Quay as a train station is also there and the distance is short. Crown Casino to Elizabeth Quay could be good if there are a lot of people staying in those hotels and apartments. Crown Casino could also benefit the surrounding neighborhoods if good bus connections are made to also serve UWA. I do see significant potential. Bus connectivity is essential because the shores around Perth are populated almost entirely by detached homes and most of the shores do not seem to have direct bus access today. I was surprised how difficult it was to find a Perth bus map. If there is one, it's pretty well hidden. The Transperth system map was just a rail map.
I'd love to respond and will. But heading to beach. That's life in perth. Beach, river, parkland... hot summer days and beautiful weather in spring and autumn. Rains basically 3 months a year in winter.
The Swan river at that section is more a tidal estuary, it even reverses flow during the day. The level changes, often dramatically. Parts of the routes (especially matilda bay) would require dredging.
I'm sure some extension of the ferry routes would do us good, but personally I think more rail developments beyond Metronet would be a better investment, at least in the short-term
Going east... river snakes and there is some rail support. Optus Stadium has rail station. Claisebrook already has rail though it is mid-high density. Maylands peninsula is kms from Mayland train station, but a lot of it is parkland and low density. Riverton/Belmont is high density and actually a reasonable option. But could better bus lanes on Gt eastern hwy get job done? Best options Riverton to city. South of river to UWA/hospitals and through to Perth. But I think any routes have to be niche. Any ocean options probably not.
I am currently getting free public transit in Perth (I was on the Armadale line = closed for renovation). Perth's network is improving continually - Free transit on Sundays for everyone and over last xmas period it was free too. Ferries here would be popular as people are used to getting ferries to Rottnest and from South Perth to the City. Our problem would be the ferry stations/ports and building them as the current ones are busy.
I love the romance of ferry travel. Just not sure of practicalities. I think if govt are smart they can create bus express lanes and creative means of transporting people. But there is an obvious opportunity at UWA and nearby hospital precinct. That is very well serviced by bus currently (plan was tram but that scrapped). It is difficult for people in Applecross to Bicton to make the river cross in a quick and efficient way. E.g. Bicton involves bus to Canning Bridge (which now has train line) then train into city. Then bus out to UWA. Long trip for just across the river. Not sure if hospital precinct could be serviced by ferry as too far and would still need shuttle service.
the only reason for large numbers of regular travellers to take a ferry across water is to save time eg by reducing total journey length. without taking possible river speed restrictions into account, an obviously useful route (to me at least) could run as follows: claremont jetty [connecting bus to train station] > point walter [connecting bus serving murdoch U & train] > Applecross Jetty [buses feeding from City of Melville] > Nedlands jetty [connection to UWA & CG Hospital] > Canning Bridge [bus and rail connections incl Curtin U]. Common ticketing (eg SmartRider) would help multi modal use. If small hovercraft were available/existed the speed may not need to be restricted. PS. do you really consider that the Perth (pop < 2.5m) rail network is "not particularly extensive" ? Compared with where ? (Europe and Japan are not comparable). I would disagree, and considering that a significant length of it is designed to connect with buses I would disagree strongly.
issue with perth is low density on river, snaky river going east. lots of parkland and no parking near river places. so people just wouldn't use it unfortunately. possible through melville to UWA/hospital.
Only if the areas surrounding the river are built up enough then maybe yes, but if it isn't then it's a waste of time...especially upriver where it meanders more. Sydney has it's harbour but it kinda has a direct way through up and downstream for ferries plus it's built up and has a fast route to Manley and pretty easy route to Parramatta. Does Perth have another centre up river or just suburban sprawl?
@@thevannmann But I doubt it's built up enough for proper ferries. It's still just too sprawled and low density. It may happen but I think in fifty years time when and if the density increases much more in many areas other than the cbd.
Let's do Mandurah to Rockingham or Mandurah to Wannanup or further as well, maybe Rottnest Island Ferry could expand its ships? Soubds great let's have those new Resturants etc along those areas.
Perth was consider trams from late 1990s to 2015. Routes were drawn up from Curtin Uni through city to University WA (UWA)/hospital sector. Called the Knowledge Arc. Then well advanced plans and drawings to build light rail up Fitzgerald St and Alexander Dr to Mirrabooka. A mining bust (low royalties) coincided with GST signficantly dropping. Public infrastructure plans were delayed. Then eventually light rail was dumped. Since then we've seen trackless trams proposed as new technology by Prof Newman and other academics. Being trialled on Glendalough Scarborough busy route (Scarb beach rd) but this is pushed by local govt not state govt. Other routes being examined. For me, routes up Alexander dr to East Wanneroo areas are still needed by rail or trackless tram.
@@thevannmann Light rail had its chance with multiple feasibility studies from 1995 to 2015. In the end it got cancelled before the North link to Mirrabooka got built. Everyone moved on now. Even Prof Newman now says trackless trams are preferable to trams.
@@thevannmann The north link to Mirrabooka was going to be built and they'd already worked out stations. Got cancelled due to mining bust and GST royalties bottoming out. So got delayed initially and then got cancelled. Since then Labor got in govt and they prioritised other forms of transport. Light rail is now unlikely ever to occur. But if any route is required, it needs to be north to Mirrabooka, Kingsway and beyond, in the absence of a rail line going north of Mirrabooka. Also, I would have done light rail to the airport, with an express lane on Great Eastern Hwy, Would have serviced airport and the Belmont Riverton crowd.
@@thevannmann Trackless trams is being talked about Glendalough to Scarborough by local govt. I think there is a clear issue where you need to connect Mandurah line with Fremantle. Obvious spot is expressway or track or trackless trams on Canning Hwy. Fact is that people south of the river on that line just don't want to go to Fremantle to work or play by public transport because it takes too long. I'd go Curtin to Canning Bridge to Fremantle. I wouldn't worry about UWA, as that is really well serviced by buses. When the proposal was discussed about Perth to UWA via Subiaco there were 2 routes. One up Thomas St and one via Subiaco and Rokeby Road. It was going to lead to a very significant number of trees to be removed which would have made it difficult to occur without huge criticism.
@@thevannmann How about cable car to Kings Park then.. Ever thought of a form of light rail into Kings Park and main location and then onto hospital and UWA. It would service the tourism, uni, medical and hospital workers. But wouldn't service West Perth or Subi workers. Is it possible for light rail to ever go through Kings park? Would it be allowed?
Better to build heavy rail lines along the southern shoreline, and inner southern suburbs of Perth. The train network beats out any potential positives that the ferries have. But you are right, boating along the Swan River is such a picturesque journey.
Also interested in how the area south of Fremantle can be connected to Cockburn train station on the mandurah line. It is so difficult and time consuming for people relatively close to Fremantle to actually get to Fremantle by public transport. Buses from Harrisdale to Fremantle would be slow. You need to get off at Canning Br and take bus up Canning Hwy to Fremantle. That's a weakness. Then people need to see if Belmont areas and beyond are serviced sufficiently well by transport.
One part of Perth's several planning failures: the failure to plan those whole southern suburbs region. Canning Highway never transformed into a proper freeway/rail system. Stock Road never utilised as a train/tram route. Leach Highway & South St never transformed into proper train/tram routes.
@@mikespearwood3914 i don't live south so not as familiar. but i do know that people don't want to work in Freo but they're in suburbs like willeton and further south. its too time consuming. I'm not sure if extending the railway south of fremantle is feasible. single track. through areas not well populated. used by freight. but really freo needs to connect to the mandurah line somehow. either heavy rail or express light rail or express buses on dedicated lane (in order).
With Perth there isn't the population density near obvious places for a ferry jetty. There would need to be extensive carparks built. A lot of good spots are already serviced by rail. Or are in wealthy areas where people drive. Plus Perth roads are not as congested as other cities. Bus routes and roads are good. Obviously going west there aren't the means to cross the river by bridge (from narrows to frem). Then going east to bayswater the river is particularly snaky and in low density areas near rail. Exception is Ascot/Rivervale with their flats and Vic Park maybe. But in Perth there is a lot of parkland near river and its not population dense. So carparks needed.
The ferries can connect to bus and train stops. For example, it's easy to imagine two or three very useful bus routes running to Coode Street jetty. it would be a faster way into the city than going over the causeway like the current Coode Street bus route does. No car parks needed, or crazy high density on land currently mostly reserved for parks (for better or worse).
@@sebastiandavies-slate5255 Coode St is being talked about. I'm not sure whether it will have sufficient people or not. People in the area instead of making their way to the river for the ferry, would surely hop on a bus and go via the Causeway or Freeway. Mind you the Freeway may be congested. Is it better to work on bus express ways on the Causeway rather than building a ferry infrastructure to Coode St? By all means tell me I'm wrong and why. I don't live in South Perth.
@@sebastiandavies-slate5255 I reckon you would need carparks near the Coode St for passengers driving to the jetty. So that would be a blight on the landscape there. I still think you may as well stay on the bus driving through South perth and take express lane journey straight into the city.
@@BDub2024There is actually a fairly big (non-Transperth) car park there already, as it's a popular spot on weekends. The 32 goes right down Coode Street but turns rather than going all the way to the river. A minor detour in this route would allow for a connection, and I'm pretty sure would be faster than staying on the bus for people going to the CBD (East Perth not so much). Lining up the timetables, or running at high frequency would be the key. Another connecting bus could head down Douglas Ave and be very useful. www.transperth.wa.gov.au/Timetables/Details/Bus/32
Just loom at how we do our ferry's here in Sydney, all you need is to connect them near other modes of transporta and points of interest to garner interest.
Brisbane city cats have been a major attraction since 1996 and has grown dramatically. The route is great with important stops at USQ Saint Lucia to North Quay in the city over to South Bank and Eagle Street Pier under the Story Bridge to New Farm all the way to Hamilton Northshore. Also not only we have the city cats we have the tiny Kittycats that operate smaller services like a small shuttle from South Bank to North Quay plus a few other services Ours is very exstensive probablydo better research next time
Jetties and weaknesses. Canning Bridge now has train station. Applecross is reasonably close to Canning Br station. Low density. Point Walter has jetty but extensive parkland. Melville is more possible. East Fremantle maybe. Going on other side of river. Mosman Pk has rail. Mosman to Nedlands low density and wealthy so won't happen. UWA/hospital precinct would be worthwhile if its for south of the river to the university/hosp. Save time. Crossing the river to UWA/hosp south to north is important. But where on south shore.
But do we really want high rise built right up to the riverfront? taking up parkland? unlike Sydney most of the riverfront is public open space with parkland, bush or freeway reserve. He is right saying the distance is a major factor. The areas west of Perth to Fremantle are expensive and its going to be very difficult to lift the density of housing there. At the moment density is being lifted through the western suburbs along Stirling Hwy and that's getting a huge amount of push back. Can you imagine how people would respond to riverfront.
@@mitchelloh6926 how about we make it that all of the river bank and coast line ia accessible. This sort of development only helps the wealthy property developers and property owners. Its quite bizarre why anyone would want highrise along a river front blocking river front, creating shadows and an ugly montrosity in a public open space.
@@mitchelloh6926 I know we have a lot of open space and that is why we must fight harder to preserve what we have. Elizabeth Quay was poorly done and is really just building highrise and expensive hotels on parkland right up to the river. They're extending Convention Centre to the shore (mind you it will be over existing roads). The freeway interchange was originally part of the river and a beautiful walk along Mounts Bay Road. Como to Mount Henry Bridge is pure freeway reserve making the river largely inaccessible. In front of the Concert Hall there will be an Aboriginal museum built on the river front. Eventually all of Langley park will be built on up to the river edge. Point Fraser is already there and will continue ... Scarborough for many years prevented high rise, yet now developers through govt support is building towers... Cottesloe already pushing up to 10 floors... it will keep going up until 20 stories plus there. Where there are profits to be earned and elections to be won you'll get our open space being built on.
With South Perth there are long term plans to put in a station in South Perth along the freeway near Richardson Park. Council is pushing for it and density in S Perth is increasing. There has also been talk of another route that could go to the Coode St jetty. I'm not convinced of that. Council very keen on S Perth station but WA govt and metronet don't have plans that I'm aware of.
A problem we have in Perth is all the whinging that goes on whenever there is something planned. We see it time and time again. The Bell Tower’s original design was much better than the one we got and also the original design of Elizabeth Quay was better than what was built and all because the moaners were wrong.
I wonder if that is why the government is considering trackless "trams" rather than the real thing - with steel wheels on rails, being capable of coupling and without steering controls, with sections of truly reserved track - such as open ballast track and grassed track.
Cable car? Talk of cable car to Kings Park previously for tourists. But it would be expensive. Plans have had it extending through the park to hospital precinct. But could light rail also work. Bring the tourists into the park and then extend through to the hospital and university. It would avoid west perth and subiaco, so not link to a major line. But would satisfy tourism, hospital care, students and workforce. But would the Kings park board and environmentalists tolerate a track through the park even if hidden. What do you think? Going back to cable car, could that work across the river. I think far too expensive considering the usage and would be ugly.
Ferries suffer from a critical problem - speed. If they could achieve train speeds, they'd be in with a chance. As it is, they're slow to accelerate, have low top speeds and are slow to moor.
I've recently become interested in Public transport systems and viable alterative to car driving, as well as wanting a car-free city and walkability places throughout Perth as a whole. I really would like if there was a good ferry systems in place. As would provide the public people's with another form of transport rather than driving. Let me previse this, I'm not against people driving cars to get around, but have the option of other alternatives to choose from. This will also decrease the amount of traffic on roads and bring about neighborhoods that are walkable
Expansion has been tried before…and failed. Even ferry operators to Rottnest used to regularly go broke, couldn’t get the patronage. Ferries in Perth would only be busy in rush hour (Sydney has many more tourists travelling offpeak), most of that part of the Swan river is VERY shallow with soft banks and so low speed limits, and punters would expect extensive parking at their port
Perth has the opportunity to adopt the technology of the 2020s, rather than model on the systems of the 1970s-2000s as other cities have. They should consider leasing regular 'rivercat / citycat' style boats to establish the service, and then as technologies mature they can adopt electric hydrofoiling boats, which are much faster, energy efficient, and comfortable (see video below). I truly believe that we're just ahead of a renaissance in ferries, and that we'll see them as a much more important part of our transport mix. ruclips.net/video/XSkjdfaHxhw/видео.htmlsi=2F-lLO6x7LuVzfyO
its good if you want to go to the city or freo. if you want to go to suburb to suburb is terrible . Perth has really good roads and low traffic so easy to drive.
This is exactly why everyone wants and has cars. if you have a life outside of going out and partying or eating out and working in the city a car is 100% required. public transport lovers just dont seem to understand this. @@JQNick
Sydney: We use ferries to commute by goddam it we make a fortune in tourist dollars. Brisbane: Yeah we hear ya. What a great idea! Perth: …. Wait, what?
To be fair, Melbourne has a very small, narrow river compared to all the other cities' bodies of water. If you put an extensive ferry network on the Yarra it'd get congested pretty quick.
@@mikespearwood3914 not to my knowledge, no. And I lived there for five years. And in any case definitely not as extensive as Moreton Bay ferries to the islands off Brisbane, for example. After all, who's really going to want to holiday on Port Phillip Bay? Lol
THERE SAYING BUILT HERE LIKE THE TRAINS 😂😂 THE TRAINS ARNT MADE HERE 🤷♂️ THERE ONLY FITTED OUT HERE THERE ALL READY BUILT AND DELIVERED TO AUSTRALIA TO FITOUT SO NO THERE NOT MADE HERE !! WA GOVERNMENT
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
The biggest issue is that there is a hardcoded 8 knot speed limit for all boats on the river which means that if a ferry from Applecross to Elizabeth Quay existed, the distance covered would be significantly shorter than catching a bus to Canning Bridge train station and then the train to Elizabeth Quay, but the time taken to complete the journey would be significantly longer because the ferry can't go faster than 8 knots. This limit is in place to stop the wake from boats from eroding the riverbanks.
Ferries linked to good bus routes would be more useful outside the CBD, where PT options are limited. Applecross to EQ will surely always be faster by bus + train.
@@sebastiandavies-slate5255 Not really. You have Canning bridge train station basically in Applecross. The next stop is the city. Only benefit in the proximity would be to travel from Canning bridge to UWA and hospital. People would then get off the train line or buses in the area and travel to UWA/hospital. Melville should be thought of too I reckon. Or East Freo. But UWA/hospital with a shuttle service is the best option I can see. Canning into the city or UWA into the city wouldn't work.
Canning bridge to UWA would be the one route I could see being feasible-relieving a lot of pressure on the 950 from EQ to campus
@@YewanHolmesDefinitely. It would take a little pressure off the Mandurah Line too.
@@YewanHolmes It will relieve some pressure on the 950. But there is an easier way to solve that problem. Put an extra bus on. 950 is Morley to UWA/hosp through the city. Other routes down Alexander Dr go to Curtin. Maybe they can a run bus service direct from Curtin to UWA (the infamous knowledge arc). Or Wanneroo Rd to UWA/hosp avoiding the city. These are all easier to do than putting a ferry in. But I do think that people south of the river may find it really timely to avoid the commute into the city from Canning bridge and then the journey out. People would save 10-15 min on the journey. Is that enough though?
Canning Bridge *Station* to UWA would be an incredible shortcut in the PT network if the connection could be made. It's currently about 45 minutes from Canning Bridge to the southern part of UWA campus by PT. A ferry would take 15-20 minutes, based on the speed of the current line. Huge time saving. Plus there are a lot of buses that travel down there. With a good connection it could be a very useful new link.
Yeah, I'd say that's one of the few actual good connections on the map that was shared.
As an aside, for connections that aren't faster, or at least as quick as, what it currently takes, no one will ride them apart from enthusiasts like me.
Or Melville to UWA/hospital... Crossing the river is the main feasible route. You could have shuttle service from Nedlands to hospital so patients visitors and workers would use it. Agreed. But you don't need service from Canning Bridge to city or. Nedlands to the city. Fact is that UWA and hospital is very well serviced by bus services currently. On a transport note I see issues from Mandurah line to Fremantle. Quickest journey is to get off at Canning Bridge or Murdoch and catch a bus which is really slow. Another issue is how the area south of Fremantle is serviced and then how it connects to Cockburn Central. Then obviously north through to Cockburn central.
@@BDub2024Would the Melville end leave from Point Walter or Attadale or somewhere? I don't think there's a bus to Point Walter at the moment, so introducing the two together would be very useful. Maybe to Dalkeith rather than UWA though?
Yes please, let's just start a pirate service for now
@@BDub2024 Mandurah line to Fremantle will be improved with Metronet Stage 2, which includes using the old freight rail right of way to connect Cockburn to Fremantle. Because there's nothing WA Labor likes more than reactivating old rights of way for heavy rail.
That of course is assuming Labor stays in power, Liberals will probably have their own plans.
I used to live along the Swan river, right up in Woodridge (near Guildford). I always was annoyed I couldn't just take a ferry up the river.
Are you also annoyed there is not enough density along the Melville waters? Annoyed the the development was not ferry oriented at that time?
Great video - few cities have bodies of water to utilise, and even fewer take full advantage of them. Was in Sydney last summer and took it more than a few times :)
Good comment - an example is Hobart, which has awful traffic for its size and has only 3 bridge crossings of the river yet until recently had no public ferries since the 1960s-70s. They brought in a trial ferry in the last few years and were so pleased with the results they are now planning to build 6 new ferry terminals. Hobart is lucky they have so many low-hanging fruit to pick, they also have a former railway easement running through a good portion of the city which could very cheaply and effectively be turned into a light rail line, and they once had a very popular and extensive tram system for a city of its size.
In some ways it is more similar to here in Brisbane.
Brisbane’s meandering river means ferry trips are commonly as far or even longer than road travel. Ferries become the most picturesque mode, but it has limited utility to commuter travel prioritising time, as boats are also typically slower moving. Home and work destinations have to both be in good locations to really make it viable.
That said ridership is still high because it’s a lot nicer and stress free than bus travel.
Perth might be the same where you’d get a dedicated but niche rider group.
Perth has low density and a lot of parkland near river. Also going west to Fremantle are the wealthier suburbs (in particular north of river Nedlands to Mosman Park) and they drive and don't take buses or trains much. Also low density and actually serviced. I wonder if ocean ferry could go from Hillarys and Rockingham to Fremantle. But probably too far and rocky. Fremantle would need to become a bigger business centre.
going east from Perth to Maylands and Bayswater (if you have map). It snakes around a lot. But Maylands is only high density near train station. Riverton has a number of units and there is a lot of congestion on Great eastern hwy into the city that would make it slower. Now a new train line at Redcliffe station, in which buses can be directed too. Bayswater and Ashfield have trains.
There's a road that leads to the University of WA that's always congested during peak and no bus lane/rail line. It'd be faster to go there by ferry.
@@kingcoong you have to think of the route. City to UWA is quick via Mounts Bay road near the foot of Kings Park. Its non stop at 60km to UWA from Mounts Hospital basically. A bit of a build up in peak hour but thats it. You're referring to Thomas St which goes past Perth Mod, over the rail line and freeway exchange to Leederville. That road is congested. But building a ferry from the city to UWA will have no impact. People build up that road as they're mainly driving into the city and West Perth from the northern suburbs. City to UWA/hospital is already very well serviced by buses and they've considered trams and trackless trams in the past too. What is needed possibly is UWA/hospital precinct to south of the river. Be it Melville and Canning Bridge. But that's it. Basically shuttle between UWA and Canning Bridge. You then need a shuttle service from the river to the hospital due to distance. Also need an express lane for buses going down Canning hwy in peak time as traffic now builds up and the congestion is getting worse due to multiple high rise towers being built. Same is going to happen on the Como side too within walking distance. But you don't need Canning bridge into the city as there is already a train station there.
@@kingcoong as my other message says. different people go from city to UWA/hospital. Compared to those that drive down Thomas St (the busy road). So both routes don't impact each other. UWA to city is a waste of money and time. Bus much quicker. Remembering buses leave from Bus Port esplanade, Bus station and St George's Tce. To go by ferry you'd need to walk big distance to the ferry jetty in elizabeth quay. so people would just grab the closer bus.
I think the main issue is that there is no density around the potential tourist nodes. And if there’s density there needs to be more amenities/reasons to use it. For example, a university, hospitals, businesses etc
Density is gradually coming. UWA is already a major precinct with a short bus connection to the large medical precinct just north of it. Applecross near Canning Bridge has emerged with several apartment towers and more to come. Burswood’s northern peninsula is slated for massive residential development including dozens of apartment towers. Burswood is also potentially getting its own quay precinct as well. It’s a matter of when rather than if at this point of ferry expansions, though one issue would be the speed limits.
We don't want density along the river though. Perth is known for beautiful parkland along the river. I think UWA and hospital precinct is very well serviced by buses. Knowledge arc and light rail won't happen now. But what is the only positive would be from UWA/hospitals to the southern foreshore at Canning Bridge (where there is a train station) or Melville. It would need extensive parking too. It would be a one way journey as people in Melville may want to go to city and UWA/hospital. But no one is wanting to go south of the river, except in the afternoon from UWA/hospital and city.
There is high density around Riverton that is a possible. Long term at Optus Stadium/Belmont Park. But that has train station. Coode St jetty is a possibility. OR Como jetty but you have the long walk and low density living. Canning Bridge maybe but there is the train line already. Matilda bay for UWA and hospital is a possibility, but would need shuttle service to hospital. Melville? maybe? but you'll need lots of carparks along the river which isn't exactly ideal is it. Wealthy people through Mosman park to nedlands just don't take public transport much - fact.
@@BDub2024 You mean YOU, don't want density. The reason Perth urban culture sucks is its lack of density around the river, too much unused grass everywhere.
@@jarrad347 People don't want density around Perth. No one wants public open space removed and replaced with tall buildings right up the river. Is that progress? I don't think so. We can have high density in some areas, but there is no reason for along the river or beach. In the end it mainly benefits property developers. Instead higher development needs to be based around major stations and shopping centres. Unfortunately, the major shopping centres in Perth are not near transport with exception of Carousel. Still Karrinyup is building lots of units. Morley has been planning for it. But both major hubs are serviced by buses, as are Whitfords, Booragoon and Innaloo... even Belmont etc. Fact is that river and beach areas are not usually near major transport routes with exception of Canning Bridge, Perth CBD... The western suburbs won't tolerate major highrise and it won't happen. Scarborough is heavily packed in increasingly, but that is causing major congestion with no train line nearby and a slow bus route on crowded scarborough beach road. So things are more complex than ripping up parkland and sticking in high rise. What an exciting way of thinking about things. Lets all get rid of dullsville by allowing property developers make millions and we lose a public asset too. Wow.
I think it was a mistake to dismiss Brisbane as a point of comparison, the CityCat successfully changed the way Brisbane viewed the river, I gather this is the exact goal Perth is looking to achieve. The CityCat had the same issue as Perth where a comparable trip by car isn’t that much slower than a trip by CityCat. Brisbane also did some water based transit oriented development that was used in the 90s to revitalise the riverfront after the port moved down to the mouth of the river that had some successes and drawbacks that are worth exploring. Namely, because the 80s and 90s weren’t a high point for public transit and walkable planning the units were largely not mixed use and focused towards the luxury market which was a mistake, newer developments at Bretts Wharf have improved greatly on this. On the positive side the CityCat resulted in heaps of Brisbane’s riverfront being reclaimed for walking and cycle paths, it really has changed how residents of Brisbane view the river, as somewhere to meet and gather rather than to ignore.
Interesting video - I wish Perth all the best!
I live in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. We've got a two-line ferry service (both serving the same downtown terminal, and different ones across the Harbour). Our government plans on adding two new line(s) that will serve the downtown dock and three new ones. I wish I could get behind it... But the first line will go from a spot beside a freight railway that already heads downtown... Surely a train would have more capacity, better frequency, a faster speed, and the possibility for intermediary stops at key destinations...
I don't think Perth has the same issue, though, so I can see new ferry lines as a good solution there.
Perth is a hot climate based around wide river and ocean. Its also a city where large amounts of people drive to work. Outside peak there isn't much congestion and its much quicker and easier to travel by car. That said the buses are good, but the density is low and you're talking about long distances and waiting for buses (which are often empty) outside peak hour. But a very good bus and train network in Perth. I don't think ferry will eventuate in any details. Obvious would be crossing the river from south to north (in the area from melville to nedlands where there is the university and hospital precinct). In Perth there isn't much density along river at all and lots of parkland. Also where the obvious places are there is already a train line. But as I said crossing the river in the part of the river west of the city is appealing as there aren't many bridges. But the people in that area are largely wealthy and they just don't take public transport.
UWA/hospital to Canning Bridge may ultimately make the most sense. I reckon they may need to develop some bus lanes and keep the traffic flowing in Canning Hwy, Stirling Hwy and Great Eastern Hwy. If the congestion can be reduced and the bus gets priority then that takes away incentives from having ferries.
I actually took that ferry from Elizabeth Quay to South Perth last month for maybe the first time in 20+ years. It was a really nice way of getting to the zoo. I believe there is space reserved for a South Perth station on the Mandurah line but I'm not sure why it hasn't been built. A lot of apartments are in that area, and many new apartment buildings are under construction.
You missed when speaking about Applecross is that it is one of the fastest densifying parts of Perth currently, with apartment towers popping up or being proposed yearly.
I'm interested in how Perth better deal with transport to the northern corridor. Serviced by rail past Joondalup, I see a massive gap through to East Wanneroo... from Mirrabooka Kingsway Darch Gnangara Banksia Grove. There has been talk of spurs from the proposed Malaga station (on Ellenbrook line) but that would be an indirect route into the city via Bayswater. Or could there be extensive tunnelling from Mirrabooka Ballajura area to the north. Use Reid Hwy corridor for rail connecting the lines from Joondalup to Midland.
Perth has never been properly planned out. Just endless population growth through endless mass migration for no reason. Bunbury, Geraldton, Albany, Karratha etc could've been large regional cities, rather than endlessly growing Perth. We see both Mandurah & Rockingham are failures because they're essentially just outer suburbs of Perth now.
@@mikespearwood3914 Didn't they following the Stephenson plan (corridors). There has been improvements with the growth of Herdsman-Osborne Park and Innaloo for example. But govts still want to save money no matter what with transport planning that impacts development. Years ago the train line didn't go through Innaloo due to cost and environmental reasons (Herdsman lake). Morley should have got the underground rail as the previous Lib govt proposed (but may have been a long wait!). Instead the Morley station is 2km from the Galleria. A huge missed opportunity as this was a major chance for a big centre of shopping, offices and apartments, with employment. Instead the train to Ellenbrook branches off at Bayswater, which can never develop into a hub. Basically, that choice has contributed into further centralisation into Perth, instead of mini CBDs. Karrinyup and Garden City are missed opportunities.
Gotta love ferries. Nice video! Out of interest, where did you get the drone footage from?
I lived in San Francisco where there is an extensive ferry network and the transit connections at both ends are essential to feed the ferries, particularly from the North Bay where there is no train access into San Francisco and the Golden Gate Bridge is both crowded and expensive to cross. In fact, the North Bay's commuter rail line terminates at the ferry pier which completes the journey into San Francisco. The San Francisco Bay can be a tempestuous body of water which can affect ferry service but which doesn't appear to be the case in Perth.
I do like the idea of an expanded ferry network for Perth. Looking at the geography, I think the better routes are those that cross from one shore to the other where there are relatively few bridges, rather than routes connecting two points on the same side of the river, to your point about smooth shores.
Canning Bridge, Applecross, East Fremantle, and Mend's St to UWA are good examples. It's a big school with 30,000 students and staff.
Ferries to Optus Stadium and Belmont Park from most points would be good options to avoid event day traffic and parking.
East Fremantle to Elizabeth Quay could be good especially if a fast ferry is used and faster than the train. Canning Bridge may not be a great option to Elizabeth Quay as a train station is also there and the distance is short.
Crown Casino to Elizabeth Quay could be good if there are a lot of people staying in those hotels and apartments. Crown Casino could also benefit the surrounding neighborhoods if good bus connections are made to also serve UWA.
I do see significant potential. Bus connectivity is essential because the shores around Perth are populated almost entirely by detached homes and most of the shores do not seem to have direct bus access today. I was surprised how difficult it was to find a Perth bus map. If there is one, it's pretty well hidden. The Transperth system map was just a rail map.
I'd love to respond and will. But heading to beach. That's life in perth. Beach, river, parkland... hot summer days and beautiful weather in spring and autumn. Rains basically 3 months a year in winter.
Do you also like the idea of ferry oriented development?
The Swan river at that section is more a tidal estuary, it even reverses flow during the day.
The level changes, often dramatically. Parts of the routes (especially matilda bay) would require dredging.
I'm sure some extension of the ferry routes would do us good, but personally I think more rail developments beyond Metronet would be a better investment, at least in the short-term
The ferries should be going where there's no trains like Applecross, Attadale, Point Walter, Bicton, and UWA
Spot on. But do you really think the residents of those suburbs would leave their cars? Nyet, non, no!!
Going east... river snakes and there is some rail support. Optus Stadium has rail station. Claisebrook already has rail though it is mid-high density. Maylands peninsula is kms from Mayland train station, but a lot of it is parkland and low density. Riverton/Belmont is high density and actually a reasonable option. But could better bus lanes on Gt eastern hwy get job done? Best options Riverton to city. South of river to UWA/hospitals and through to Perth. But I think any routes have to be niche. Any ocean options probably not.
I am currently getting free public transit in Perth (I was on the Armadale line = closed for renovation). Perth's network is improving continually - Free transit on Sundays for everyone and over last xmas period it was free too. Ferries here would be popular as people are used to getting ferries to Rottnest and from South Perth to the City. Our problem would be the ferry stations/ports and building them as the current ones are busy.
I love the romance of ferry travel. Just not sure of practicalities. I think if govt are smart they can create bus express lanes and creative means of transporting people. But there is an obvious opportunity at UWA and nearby hospital precinct. That is very well serviced by bus currently (plan was tram but that scrapped). It is difficult for people in Applecross to Bicton to make the river cross in a quick and efficient way. E.g. Bicton involves bus to Canning Bridge (which now has train line) then train into city. Then bus out to UWA. Long trip for just across the river. Not sure if hospital precinct could be serviced by ferry as too far and would still need shuttle service.
the only reason for large numbers of regular travellers to take a ferry across water is to save time eg by reducing total journey length. without taking possible river speed restrictions into account, an obviously useful route (to me at least) could run as follows: claremont jetty [connecting bus to train station] > point walter [connecting bus serving murdoch U & train] > Applecross Jetty [buses feeding from City of Melville] > Nedlands jetty [connection to UWA & CG Hospital] > Canning Bridge [bus and rail connections incl Curtin U]. Common ticketing (eg SmartRider) would help multi modal use. If small hovercraft were available/existed the speed may not need to be restricted.
PS. do you really consider that the Perth (pop < 2.5m) rail network is "not particularly extensive" ? Compared with where ? (Europe and Japan are not comparable). I would disagree, and considering that a significant length of it is designed to connect with buses I would disagree strongly.
It would be so great if this came to life. The swan could be better than sydney harbour.
issue with perth is low density on river, snaky river going east. lots of parkland and no parking near river places. so people just wouldn't use it unfortunately. possible through melville to UWA/hospital.
Only if the areas surrounding the river are built up enough then maybe yes, but if it isn't then it's a waste of time...especially upriver where it meanders more.
Sydney has it's harbour but it kinda has a direct way through up and downstream for ferries plus it's built up and has a fast route to Manley and pretty easy route to Parramatta.
Does Perth have another centre up river or just suburban sprawl?
Burswood Point is being developed with high density towers. Applecross is also densifying rapidly which CityMoose failed to mention
@@thevannmann
But I doubt it's built up enough for proper ferries. It's still just too sprawled and low density.
It may happen but I think in fifty years time when and if the density increases much more in many areas other than the cbd.
Let's do Mandurah to Rockingham or Mandurah to Wannanup or further as well, maybe Rottnest Island Ferry could expand its ships? Soubds great let's have those new Resturants etc along those areas.
Perth was consider trams from late 1990s to 2015. Routes were drawn up from Curtin Uni through city to University WA (UWA)/hospital sector. Called the Knowledge Arc. Then well advanced plans and drawings to build light rail up Fitzgerald St and Alexander Dr to Mirrabooka. A mining bust (low royalties) coincided with GST signficantly dropping. Public infrastructure plans were delayed. Then eventually light rail was dumped. Since then we've seen trackless trams proposed as new technology by Prof Newman and other academics. Being trialled on Glendalough Scarborough busy route (Scarb beach rd) but this is pushed by local govt not state govt. Other routes being examined. For me, routes up Alexander dr to East Wanneroo areas are still needed by rail or trackless tram.
Light rail will be the future of Perth's east-west connections.
@@thevannmann Light rail had its chance with multiple feasibility studies from 1995 to 2015. In the end it got cancelled before the North link to Mirrabooka got built. Everyone moved on now. Even Prof Newman now says trackless trams are preferable to trams.
@@thevannmann The north link to Mirrabooka was going to be built and they'd already worked out stations. Got cancelled due to mining bust and GST royalties bottoming out. So got delayed initially and then got cancelled. Since then Labor got in govt and they prioritised other forms of transport. Light rail is now unlikely ever to occur. But if any route is required, it needs to be north to Mirrabooka, Kingsway and beyond, in the absence of a rail line going north of Mirrabooka. Also, I would have done light rail to the airport, with an express lane on Great Eastern Hwy, Would have serviced airport and the Belmont Riverton crowd.
@@thevannmann Trackless trams is being talked about Glendalough to Scarborough by local govt. I think there is a clear issue where you need to connect Mandurah line with Fremantle. Obvious spot is expressway or track or trackless trams on Canning Hwy. Fact is that people south of the river on that line just don't want to go to Fremantle to work or play by public transport because it takes too long. I'd go Curtin to Canning Bridge to Fremantle. I wouldn't worry about UWA, as that is really well serviced by buses. When the proposal was discussed about Perth to UWA via Subiaco there were 2 routes. One up Thomas St and one via Subiaco and Rokeby Road. It was going to lead to a very significant number of trees to be removed which would have made it difficult to occur without huge criticism.
@@thevannmann How about cable car to Kings Park then.. Ever thought of a form of light rail into Kings Park and main location and then onto hospital and UWA. It would service the tourism, uni, medical and hospital workers. But wouldn't service West Perth or Subi workers. Is it possible for light rail to ever go through Kings park? Would it be allowed?
Better to build heavy rail lines along the southern shoreline, and inner southern suburbs of Perth. The train network beats out any potential positives that the ferries have. But you are right, boating along the Swan River is such a picturesque journey.
You can pronounce Claisebrook as Clais-Brook
Clazybrook was kind of cute though. 😀
Clays + brook = Claisebrook lol. Not as bad as RMTransit's Joon-DA-lup.
Rolled through the comments to find this. Love Moose's videos so didn't want to call him out but I am glad you did so i wouldn't have to. ;)
Also interested in how the area south of Fremantle can be connected to Cockburn train station on the mandurah line. It is so difficult and time consuming for people relatively close to Fremantle to actually get to Fremantle by public transport. Buses from Harrisdale to Fremantle would be slow. You need to get off at Canning Br and take bus up Canning Hwy to Fremantle. That's a weakness. Then people need to see if Belmont areas and beyond are serviced sufficiently well by transport.
One part of Perth's several planning failures: the failure to plan those whole southern suburbs region. Canning Highway never transformed into a proper freeway/rail system. Stock Road never utilised as a train/tram route. Leach Highway & South St never transformed into proper train/tram routes.
@@mikespearwood3914 i don't live south so not as familiar. but i do know that people don't want to work in Freo but they're in suburbs like willeton and further south. its too time consuming. I'm not sure if extending the railway south of fremantle is feasible. single track. through areas not well populated. used by freight. but really freo needs to connect to the mandurah line somehow. either heavy rail or express light rail or express buses on dedicated lane (in order).
@@mikespearwood3914 I do think there has been improvement.
With Perth there isn't the population density near obvious places for a ferry jetty. There would need to be extensive carparks built. A lot of good spots are already serviced by rail. Or are in wealthy areas where people drive. Plus Perth roads are not as congested as other cities. Bus routes and roads are good. Obviously going west there aren't the means to cross the river by bridge (from narrows to frem). Then going east to bayswater the river is particularly snaky and in low density areas near rail. Exception is Ascot/Rivervale with their flats and Vic Park maybe. But in Perth there is a lot of parkland near river and its not population dense. So carparks needed.
The ferries can connect to bus and train stops. For example, it's easy to imagine two or three very useful bus routes running to Coode Street jetty. it would be a faster way into the city than going over the causeway like the current Coode Street bus route does. No car parks needed, or crazy high density on land currently mostly reserved for parks (for better or worse).
@@sebastiandavies-slate5255 Coode St is being talked about. I'm not sure whether it will have sufficient people or not. People in the area instead of making their way to the river for the ferry, would surely hop on a bus and go via the Causeway or Freeway. Mind you the Freeway may be congested. Is it better to work on bus express ways on the Causeway rather than building a ferry infrastructure to Coode St? By all means tell me I'm wrong and why. I don't live in South Perth.
@@sebastiandavies-slate5255 I reckon you would need carparks near the Coode St for passengers driving to the jetty. So that would be a blight on the landscape there. I still think you may as well stay on the bus driving through South perth and take express lane journey straight into the city.
@@BDub2024There is actually a fairly big (non-Transperth) car park there already, as it's a popular spot on weekends. The 32 goes right down Coode Street but turns rather than going all the way to the river. A minor detour in this route would allow for a connection, and I'm pretty sure would be faster than staying on the bus for people going to the CBD (East Perth not so much). Lining up the timetables, or running at high frequency would be the key. Another connecting bus could head down Douglas Ave and be very useful.
www.transperth.wa.gov.au/Timetables/Details/Bus/32
Just loom at how we do our ferry's here in Sydney, all you need is to connect them near other modes of transporta and points of interest to garner interest.
Brisbane city cats have been a major attraction since 1996 and has grown dramatically.
The route is great with important stops at USQ Saint Lucia to North Quay in the city over to South Bank and Eagle Street Pier under the Story Bridge to New Farm all the way to Hamilton Northshore.
Also not only we have the city cats we have the tiny Kittycats that operate smaller services like a small shuttle from South Bank to North Quay plus a few other services
Ours is very exstensive probablydo better research next time
Jetties and weaknesses. Canning Bridge now has train station. Applecross is reasonably close to Canning Br station. Low density. Point Walter has jetty but extensive parkland. Melville is more possible. East Fremantle maybe. Going on other side of river. Mosman Pk has rail. Mosman to Nedlands low density and wealthy so won't happen. UWA/hospital precinct would be worthwhile if its for south of the river to the university/hosp. Save time. Crossing the river to UWA/hosp south to north is important. But where on south shore.
But do we really want high rise built right up to the riverfront? taking up parkland? unlike Sydney most of the riverfront is public open space with parkland, bush or freeway reserve. He is right saying the distance is a major factor. The areas west of Perth to Fremantle are expensive and its going to be very difficult to lift the density of housing there. At the moment density is being lifted through the western suburbs along Stirling Hwy and that's getting a huge amount of push back. Can you imagine how people would respond to riverfront.
There is actually very old rules that state that the majority of the river bank must be accessible by the public.
@@mitchelloh6926 how about we make it that all of the river bank and coast line ia accessible. This sort of development only helps the wealthy property developers and property owners. Its quite bizarre why anyone would want highrise along a river front blocking river front, creating shadows and an ugly montrosity in a public open space.
@@BDub2024 You definitely should take a walk or cycle around the swan, i think you will be pleasantly surprised.
@@mitchelloh6926 I know we have a lot of open space and that is why we must fight harder to preserve what we have. Elizabeth Quay was poorly done and is really just building highrise and expensive hotels on parkland right up to the river. They're extending Convention Centre to the shore (mind you it will be over existing roads). The freeway interchange was originally part of the river and a beautiful walk along Mounts Bay Road. Como to Mount Henry Bridge is pure freeway reserve making the river largely inaccessible. In front of the Concert Hall there will be an Aboriginal museum built on the river front. Eventually all of Langley park will be built on up to the river edge. Point Fraser is already there and will continue ... Scarborough for many years prevented high rise, yet now developers through govt support is building towers... Cottesloe already pushing up to 10 floors... it will keep going up until 20 stories plus there. Where there are profits to be earned and elections to be won you'll get our open space being built on.
What steps do you recommend taking to push for meaningful change?
With South Perth there are long term plans to put in a station in South Perth along the freeway near Richardson Park. Council is pushing for it and density in S Perth is increasing. There has also been talk of another route that could go to the Coode St jetty. I'm not convinced of that. Council very keen on S Perth station but WA govt and metronet don't have plans that I'm aware of.
I heard there was a plan to build the South Perth station long time ago, but the nimbys were against it.
Coode St jetty would've been brilliant.
@@mikespearwood3914 enough density there?
A problem we have in Perth is all the whinging that goes on whenever there is something planned. We see it time and time again. The Bell Tower’s original design was much better than the one we got and also the original design of Elizabeth Quay was better than what was built and all because the moaners were wrong.
The original EQ design was rainbow farts and unicorns.
I wonder if that is why the government is considering trackless "trams" rather than the real thing - with steel wheels on rails, being capable of coupling and without steering controls, with sections of truly reserved track - such as open ballast track and grassed track.
Cable car? Talk of cable car to Kings Park previously for tourists. But it would be expensive. Plans have had it extending through the park to hospital precinct. But could light rail also work. Bring the tourists into the park and then extend through to the hospital and university. It would avoid west perth and subiaco, so not link to a major line. But would satisfy tourism, hospital care, students and workforce. But would the Kings park board and environmentalists tolerate a track through the park even if hidden. What do you think?
Going back to cable car, could that work across the river. I think far too expensive considering the usage and would be ugly.
New Moose video? Yes please!😊
Ferries suffer from a critical problem - speed. If they could achieve train speeds, they'd be in with a chance. As it is, they're slow to accelerate, have low top speeds and are slow to moor.
I've recently become interested in Public transport systems and viable alterative to car driving, as well as wanting a car-free city and walkability places throughout Perth as a whole. I really would like if there was a good ferry systems in place. As would provide the public people's with another form of transport rather than driving. Let me previse this, I'm not against people driving cars to get around, but have the option of other alternatives to choose from. This will also decrease the amount of traffic on roads and bring about neighborhoods that are walkable
Expansion has been tried before…and failed. Even ferry operators to Rottnest used to regularly go broke, couldn’t get the patronage.
Ferries in Perth would only be busy in rush hour (Sydney has many more tourists travelling offpeak), most of that part of the Swan river is VERY shallow with soft banks and so low speed limits, and punters would expect extensive parking at their port
If the time and cost is the same, I would choose the ferry because buses are not comfortable.
Great video, entirely logical for Perth to go with.
Perth has the opportunity to adopt the technology of the 2020s, rather than model on the systems of the 1970s-2000s as other cities have. They should consider leasing regular 'rivercat / citycat' style boats to establish the service, and then as technologies mature they can adopt electric hydrofoiling boats, which are much faster, energy efficient, and comfortable (see video below). I truly believe that we're just ahead of a renaissance in ferries, and that we'll see them as a much more important part of our transport mix.
ruclips.net/video/XSkjdfaHxhw/видео.htmlsi=2F-lLO6x7LuVzfyO
its good if you want to go to the city or freo. if you want to go to suburb to suburb is terrible . Perth has really good roads and low traffic so easy to drive.
That’s 90% the point of most public transport systems. They are nearly all CBD centric
This is exactly why everyone wants and has cars. if you have a life outside of going out and partying or eating out and working in the city a car is 100% required. public transport lovers just dont seem to understand this. @@JQNick
Should have been done years ago.
Sydney:
We use ferries to commute by goddam it we make a fortune in tourist dollars.
Brisbane:
Yeah we hear ya. What a great idea!
Perth: …. Wait, what?
Lol... Claiseybrooke
thanks for the laffs
Sydney and Brisbane and perths ferry network 😃
Melbourne’s ferry network 💀
We'll just have to settle for superior train, tram and road networks.
To be fair, Melbourne has a very small, narrow river compared to all the other cities' bodies of water. If you put an extensive ferry network on the Yarra it'd get congested pretty quick.
@@mushy111 Does Port Phillip Bay have various ferries across it though?
@@mikespearwood3914 not to my knowledge, no. And I lived there for five years. And in any case definitely not as extensive as Moreton Bay ferries to the islands off Brisbane, for example. After all, who's really going to want to holiday on Port Phillip Bay? Lol
@@mushy111 Melbourne wraps around the bay and it includes Geelong as well. I'm surprised if the bay isn't utilized for public transport.
Isn't perth a car city?
Yes, it is. The Public transit is decent enough. Not great, but decent.
Election?
Australian public transportation is WAY better than north American but still WAY behind European/Japanese.. Still very good though
Will the ferry travel as fast and frequently as those eyebrows?
THERE SAYING BUILT HERE LIKE THE TRAINS 😂😂 THE TRAINS ARNT MADE HERE 🤷♂️ THERE ONLY FITTED OUT HERE THERE ALL READY BUILT AND DELIVERED TO AUSTRALIA TO FITOUT SO NO THERE
NOT MADE HERE !! WA GOVERNMENT
First