The creative plan to get rid of Sydney’s most hated road
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- Опубликовано: 22 фев 2024
- For decades, Sydney's spectaculor waterfront has been blocked off by an ugly elevated motorway - but some have plans to change this!
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At Circular Quay, an elevated train station and freeway were built in the 1950s. These structures have been controversial from the start, and there have been plans to tear them down ever since they were built. In this video I investigate these plans to rejuvenate the precinct, and potentially turn the Cahill Expressway into a New York style High Line park.
Thumbnail image sources: NSW government (right) & City of Sydney Archives & History Resources (left) 
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The view from the station is iconic. And I would rather have money spent on new rail infrastructure
Absolutely. It is a great view... and the masonry facade of the station is a lot nicer than the glass skyscrapers bebind that it hides.
Right. Watching everyone on the train turn their heads in unison to watch the view in awe is always such a good feeling. And these are people that often take the same train every day. It never gets old.
@@mgp1203yeah, I remember that view vividly on my second (first as an adult) trip to Sydney. Quite possibly one of the highlights of the trip.
One of my great memories of Sydney is the first time my family visited from Perth and we got the train from the airport to Wynyard… I was blown away when the train pulled into Circular Quay
@@City-Moose Always thought you were originally from the UK. You've got a slightly British sounding accent but maybe that's just how they speak over in Perth😆
I reckon the rail and road are fine. To emerge from the underground to the views of circular quay is epic.
I agree. A lot of money has already been wasted on various studies. Just let it be and put the money towards building more metro and light rail lines across Greater Sydney.
That's the train. We want to get rid of the road
Everyone always focuses on the Cahill Expressway, but why does nobody talk about removing the Western Distributor after the Western Harbour Tunnel opens? The Western Distributor / Harbour St totally cut off the CBD from Darling Harbour & King Street Wharf which is a much larger waterside frontage than at Circular Quay. The only east-west street that manages to (almost) meet the water is Erskine St!
I’d say the Cahill Expressway project would be quicker and easier than those, and as such would be a good first step, but for sure those should be dealt with as well
You want to remove a major road? i cant find anyone complaining they cant see the same old mundane water except you
The western distributor is a vital link. The new western harbour tunnel would get very congested if the western distributor is removed. It also provides a vital link from the bridge to darling harbour and the inner western areas of Glebe, balmain, newtown, camperdown, ultimo, etc. The tunnel won’t.
@@asimo-sl9pb a lot of people complained about the George Street closure as well, and now anyone who walks along it thinks it's great. I suspect the same would apply for the Western Distributor if part of it was removed.
@@josephj6521 My first comment was brief, but when I say 'removed' I really mean the at-grade section between Erskine Street and Druitt Street which cuts off street level access from the core of the city to the waterfront. The elevated sections are not really an issue in this regard. The new tunnel will still provide access to all of the destinations you listed via the Anzac Bridge. Western Distributor was a sensible project when first opened, with the road being entirely adjacent to the working port and industrial lands around Darling Harbour. But over time this area has become mainly an entertainment and leisure precinct and the road now restricts walking access.
it doesn't block access to the harbour though, you easily walk right under it. Circular Quay Station has great views, and elevate those compared to the ground level. It blocks views from a few levels of real estate in the office blocks behind it, that is all. The road level could be prioritised differently though, Gladys had it as a potential site for the Northern CBD Transport Interchange, with ferry, heavy rail and light rail connecting easily to a bus interchange on the road level. Or, it could be a pedestrian high line. But it does not block access to the harbour.
I agree. This idea that everyone hates it is totally contrived and bogus. I’m not a fan of it, but the area is awash with ugly architecture, you can walk across it currently anyway, and not a lot of people live close near circular quay anymore anyway, most of the people who have to look at it are office workers. Boohoo poor them.
Seriously; there are far more important things that Sydney should invest its money in.
It absolutely does. It would be a lot easier to reach the water with it gone
@@strikerbowls791 How does that work when there are massive spaces under the station that are never crowded?
And why would you especially want to reach the water anyway?
The removal of the Sydney Cahill Expressway primarily focuses on enhancing the urban landscape and improving the quality of life for residents and visitors. While proponents argue that its removal aims to address social issues such as urban congestion and community disconnect, a closer examination reveals that these issues could be mitigated through alternative means such as improved public transportation infrastructure and community engagement initiatives. The decision to remove the expressway aligns more with urban renewal and beautification efforts rather than directly targeting pressing social issues. Thus, it's reasonable to assert that aesthetics play a significant role in the motivation behind the expressway's removal and not any relevant value to Sydney residents
chatGPT?
As someone who hates roads but loves infrastructure, especially with how many layers this one has, with trains emerging from underground immediately onto a viaduct, I say: do it. Fund it. Build it (well, plant it). This is as 'prime real estate for a linear park' as it gets in Australia.
Hardly anyone lives near there anymore. It’s mostly offices and government buildings.
The city already has plenty of green spaces. The last thing we need is another green space where people want to sit and have coffee.
@@gbsailing9436 If they can even get out to the green space and back within their 30 minute lunch break….
@@danieleyre8913 Too true!
The toaster buildings are far more offensive than the Cahill Expressway. They cut off the view between the Botanical Gardens and the quay. There is absolutely no comparison.
As a Sydneysider my whole life, I'd rather see the funds that would have otherwise be used for the Cahill Expressway highline be used towards tackling the current housing crisis. Once that's been ameliorated at least somewhat, then we can look at the Expressway again
Unlike removing or burying the Cahill (and the station) taking out the cars and replacing with landscaping and/or busway would cost very little and would not even show up in transport budgets.
@@jack2453”Bury the station”?!
No apology offered; if you imagine that putting the circular quay underground would be anything other than tens of billions in cost and years of construction then you must have no remote clue.
FYI: Such a hypothetical project would require rebuilding the entire city loop further underground, be the current loop. All the other 4 underground stations; town call, Wynyard, Museum and St James would also need to be rebuilt further underground (making them much less attractive to use). There would also need to be extensive works on the harbour bridge and approaching central station. Because St James station and Wynyard station both have too high an elevation, and there simply is not enough distance between those stations and circular quay, the descent between them and a station under circular quay would be a grade far too high for a mainline railway. Would the end result be anywhere near worth the massive cost in money and time and disruption? Somehow I think not and that most sensible people would agree.
To even imagine such a Tung suggests a serious deficiency in physical intuition and ignorance of railways.
I’m not exactly in love with circular quay myself. But there are far far more hideous carbuncles of buildings and constructed infrastructure blighting Sydney all over and far far bigger problems than a not very slightly expressway across the ferry terminal waterfront,
@@danieleyre8913 It might help if you actually read or watched the posts you are commenting on. Alll the comments here agree that 'burying the station' is too expensive to pursue.
@@jack2453 There are about 5 people seriously proposing it.
It would be incredible enough if there was only one person who seriously imagined it’s a good idea…
Agree. Plus improving our hospitals and awful emergency wards.
As someone who uses Cahill Expressway every day , I can tell you its a Godsend as the Harbour Tunnel is a Jam Packed crawl going north and south and if an EV Catches on fire as they are prone to do, the city would come to a gridlocked holt. For safety you would have to build a second seperate Harbour Tunnel going north to south to give 4 lanes going both ways even before contemplating its removal. Besides there is already a rarely used walkway there overlooking the Quay.
It would be cheap and easy to convert the Cahill to a highline style park plus a 2-lane busway leading onto the 2 easternmost lanes of the harbour bridge - one of which is already a bus lane. It would get rid if the scar of the Cahill and improve bus flow across the bridge and into the CBD.
Totally agree
💯 agree. And then have an elevated walkway from Pitt street and perhaps Phillip Street that levels straight from higher ground and connects up to it - bring the city pedestrians directly to a spectacular waterfront parkway walk.
You may think that "its cheap' just do it. You are placing soil and trees on a structure that was never designed for it. Just the structural waterproofing would cost many times more than you will earn in your entire lifetime. The residents of the towers will object to the trees as it will impede there views of the harbour, The winds the whip through the city will blow the trees over potentially injuring pedestrians below. Remember your adding minimal soil to a structure. The roots can't anchor into the ground to prevent fall. And in 10 to 15 years when the waterproofing has reached end of life service, you rip the whole thing out and replace it all at immense cost. It was ditched by a government for a reason. There are plenty more in the against camp than the for camp. Enjoy the grandeur of a structure that will never be built with such class and elegance, enjoy the views from station platforms that no other station platform offers on this planet. The more history you remove, the more you forget your past and where you come from.
@@GMCShazamataz Yeah right. All these people will complain because the view of a freeway out of their window is much nicer than trees - and of course it's more difficult to manage trees and soil than thousands of cars and trucks.
@@GMCShazamataz Yep. Let's appreciate the history of trams on the Eastern 2 lanes of the bridge!
Maybe I’m wrong. But I can’t imagine this hypothetical “Sydney copy of New York high line” attracting many more pedestrians than the current pathway does.
There are so many problems that Sydney should fix first before even considering this. Such as the atrocious drainage system, the city’s poor resilience to heavy rainfall, etc.
Hard disagree, building what is essentially a new park with harbourfront views would generate huge foot traffic and become an icon of the city. It would also reduce journey times for people travelling around the CBD and on the bridge, as every freeway removal I know of, from Seoul to Seattle, has reduced congestion
@@liam6nugget No it won't. These other cities you mentioned didn't have what Sydney already has which is parklands and pedestrian areas already available in this area. New york highline works because it is in a dingy area and the parkland brings something to the area. Then also lets look at the actual new highline type we have built in this city along the old goods line and you will see that it didn't really achieve what it was purported to do.
@@carisi2k11 Yes I agree.
The other thing about the high line in NYC is that it is in an area with a large residential population. But how many folk live near circular quay anymore?
Not sure it needs to have a huge residential population. It is easily accessible via Ferry, Train, Bus, etc etc. it would get a tonne of foot traffic from city workers, sydneysiders looking to go out on a weekend, and of course tourists@@danieleyre8913
This is a tourism project. We need it to stay ahead. That brings in billions that pay for the other things.
Love your take on this ongoing discussion.
Honestly, whoever built the road on top of a train station is uhh kinda clever. Because while roads aren't great, removing it won't remove the "eyesore" of a train station which would defeat the point wouldn't it? And removing both means removing a train station.
And this might be me, I work near CQ and go to CQ train station a lot. I had no idea there was a damn road on top of it. I thought the train station was it. And i've driven in the CBD before, granted not there, but to cross the harbour bridge and go south, I still never realised there was a road on top of CQ station.
Keep as is, but definitely needs a modernisation/ futurisation. Remove Cahill make more cars use the tunnel. until the tunnel is 4 lanes each way its pointless. Either govt rakes in more in tolls, or creates a huge jam through the city up Bridge St and onto a small onramp via Wynyard.
The reason to leave two lanes is because it provides acces to North Sydney, Milsons point, Kirribilli etc.
People live there because of the proximity to city, and they'll have to go up to Military Rd to join or leave the freeway.
With Military Rd being as congested as it is, having all this new traffic joining the freeway from the West would slow the already crawling paced traffic from the East.
It's already there, so I'd recommend just leaving it, and spend the funds for better public transport, or even fast tracking the cycle way access upgrade for the bridge.
(Pushing bikes up those stairs are dangerous and a huge pain)
Turning the old Cahill Expressway into green space would be a great asset to the city. Instead of roadways, why not include light rail and use the old tram lines (that were covered by the Cahill Expressway) across the Bridge to North Sydney. Perhaps even the old tram tunnel to Wynyard could be reopenned?
Great idea.
I would love to see the Eastern two lanes of the bridge returned to trams!
Hmm okay.
So what shortcoming would this provide for that isn’t currently covered by the mainline railways?
@danieleyre8913 I'm old enough to remember travelling across the Bridge on trams. But to your point - unless things have changed to go from Circular Quay to North Sydney, you would have to travel back to Wynyard and change trains. Trams from Macquarie Street via the Quay and onto North Sydney would open up the area for workers and tourists.
@@aussiebloke51 The biggest focus should always be commuters, they make up the bulk of patronage (and fund the services).
I was hoping you might come up with something on the eastern side of the expressway and something on the shore that might justify bringing up the trams. Like a tram to Cremorne and/or northbridge and a tram at the other end down Macquarie street and/or down into Wooloomooloo.
It might be easier to build a roof over the Cahill Expressway and put a park on top of it. It would make the whole thing a bit higher but you don't lose the road or affect the station and you get a new park in an excellent location.
I’d support removing the road, but I think it would be very difficult to put the station underground. The gradients from Wynyard and St James would probably be too steep for double deck trains. You’d probably have to build an entirely new city circle which would be ruinously expensive.
Simple. Convert it to metro, then it can handle the gradients easily. Will also provide higher capacity on the City Circle and better smoothing of pax at constrained sites like Town Hall.
The station can then be under-grounded, opening up the Quay to the city. The road can either be scrapped, massively opening up the whole area or converted to a linear park, providing much-needed east-west connectivity in the CBD.
I agree with a walkway with the remaining vehicle lanes for emergency and service vehicles and bus lanes and on-demand riding share services (taxis, Uber, etc) with the walk way harbour facing.
My thoughts exactly. Im all for new pedestrian spaces but as someone who works in the emergency services, let me tell you, it absolutely destroys our response times when roads are pedestrianised and blocked off with bollards.
Great video! They should remove the roadway deck off the top (come on, it would just lift off 😂), and add the green walkway on both sides of the train line level - Much more appealing, beautifies the train level, lower cost, minimal interruptions.
I love the Cahil Expressway! It’s the best piece of road in the whole place!
It’s actually got some pretty views from the outside lanes of the overpass. I know a lot of people will snarl at me for saying that, but it’s the truth.
Great video! Wow! A "High Line" type walking path would be incredibly popular and generate quite a bit of tourist revenue. A green walkway all the way from Liverpool St to the Cathedral, the Botanic Gardens, Sydney Opera House, onto the walkway over the bridge, and the Observatory, as you mentioned would be incredibly popular. Transforming it into such a green walkway would be far cheaper than tearing it down and generate much more income.
The High Line in NYC has generated over $US 2 billion in private investment and an avg of an add'l $US 70 million in tax revenues, for a huge return on the $115 million to build it. Given the stunning views, nearby attractions, and excellent transit infrastructure, Sydney would reap the same harvest, if not greater ones (the Sydney views are far more beautiful than the Manhattan High Line views).
Even though I don’t live in the CBD I still love catching the BLine from Mona vale almost every weekend just to go walk around and look at the cool views 🤩
Maybe some people don't know but there is already a walkway up there that connects to the Harbour bridge and botanical gardens. Converting that into a highline won't achieve anything other then certain peoples obsessions with having something that other cities have. The train line and the trams are right underneath as well as buses. It's just an crazy idea put out by certain crazy elements out there. What view is it blocking. All the buildings around it are higher and can easily see to the harbour. Comparing to San francisco and there freeway is ridiculous as that was a double decker freeway of 4-5 lanes each atleast. The Cahill is a rail line with a small 4 lane road and a walkway already built in.
Look I hate The Cahill Expressway as well, but I can't imagine the benefits of this project ever outweighing the costs. There's a lot of other projects where the money would be better spent
Lib's idea would have paid itself back.
@@Brendos74 No it wouldn't have. It's one of there artsy projects like the powerhouse that is such a disaster.
Yeah there are more pressing things that need funding. I believe at least one proposal looked at adding shops on top of the ferry wharves. I could see that helping to cover the cost.
At the same time though, spending money on making your city a nicer place to be is still money well spent - if done right - and in this case, because it’s not building anything majorly new and just repurposing existing infrastructure, the price shouldn’t be too high.
The cost could be incorporated as a condition of approval for a nearby commercial development. 🤷🏼♂️
Strong agree there are better projects to spend time and resources on
It is quite sensational arriving by train at Circular Quay on a sunny day and taking in the spectacular views so the railway line should be retained but perhaps the road could be into a park and the station beautified with greenery etc
Ah, the great Australian dream of making cities pretty. Meanwhile many regional towns and cities struggle with increasing crime and lack of infrastructure and facilities. NSW stands for 'Newcastle - Sydney -- Wollongong (and mostly just Sydney, or at least 'Harbourside Sydney', so the people in 'old-money' suburbs can have a 'nice' view, and are not bothered by any hint of real life 'ugly'). OMG we have become so, so shallow.
Similar issue for the riverside expressway in Brisbane.
Keating was also keen to redesign Berlin. It is called megalomania. The engineering issues with taking Circular Quay station underground are monumental. The historic Tank Stream still flows under it. It used to exit into mudflats that were walled off and filled to put more depth of water under the wharves. That is when the circular became became square. Under that station is running water and mud. So to get below that, the station would need to be deep and sealed like Barangaroo. Problem then is the gradients to the rest of the City Circle. The nearest, Wynyard, would need new stations deep below Platforms 5 and 6. On the eastern side it is navigating past the Eastern Suburbs line tunnel get to St James. Connecting into the existing tunnels would see City Circle services disrupted for years. The NSW government wisely rejected Keating's plan to improve his view from Kirribilli House at the expense of the hundreds of thousands of rail and ferry commuters.
There is virtue in the elevated park. But it won't happen so long as Labor is in power because it is a Coalition idea. Modern politics is about personal glory
Leaving it alone will cost nothing!
It does seem quite different to the other cases you presented. It doesn't block access to the harbour.
I always found it amusing that one of the best views of one of the most famous buildings in the world is from a highway. And even with the lookout point added in the middle with benches and all it's such an unpleasant place to be as a pedestrian, it's a long walk into what feels like is the void, with cars behind... I was a proponent of the demolition but I do really like the highline idea.
The Cahill Expressway and railway allows millions of people to share this view.
I love that station and expressway. I used it everyday when I did backpacking there.
The Cahill Expressway is extremely useful. I would hate to see it get removed
Getting rid of the Cahill expressway is the most stupidest idea I’ve ever heard. The expressway acts as a fail safe if the harbour tunnel is closed. By diverting traffic from the Eastern Distributor to the harbour bridge.
Or wait for the western harbour tunnel to open before getting rid of it
The cross city tunnel would be the fail safe?
@@aobboiit needs to be upgraded so it links to the western distributor northbound or a new tunnel into the bridge. It also needs to be toll free. Paying $11.00 on a return journey for such a tiny tunnel is hugely problematic for many people.
Not only is it a fail safe, but it’s an essential road for when there’s a big incident. Take the 2014 Lindt Cafe with the terrorist. The amount of people evacuated in the city that day would be really high. And in that case, you need to ensure there’s plenty of ways to get out to ensure people can leave quickly.
This “issue” has been made more popular when one of the politicians about a year ago proposed removing the expressway. A politician will say something they know certain people want because it helps get them more support, and chance of winning some election. Why people say it’s an issue is beyond me. These are the same types of people complaining about trees taking up the view at the beach. Speaking of, some moron at Balmoral beach poisoned 9 trees last week. Point is, the expressway, like trees on a beach, is hardly noticeable, especially from the other side of the harbour. Their argument is as strong as a 12 year old arguing why they should never have to work.
@@aobboi , sorry, it certainly would not. Completely different part of the city.
Not really. If you got rid of the Cahill, you'd only increase views for some people on a few floors of the buildings that front the Quay. Anyone further back than that is not going to have any more views without the Cahill unless you demolished multiple blocks of high rise towers. Moreover the overpass provides a shaded and weather-covered structure for pedestrians, as well as creating a structure for eateries and shops (which would also block views if you demolished the cahill) and the rail gives direct access to the quay, making the shift from train to ferry seamless.
Sydney has far more serious planning and transport issues to worry about.
If Sydney built this, this would be at the top of my list of reasons to visit the city - over and above some opera house, etc.
it would be a landmark, and would offer so many benefits to residents and the City, in terms of decreased maintenance costs for the roadway, increased revenue (e.g. vendors, spurring tourism and development), and decreased traffic downtown.
With the new Metro you have built - that provides far more capacity than a highway ever could, meaning that even if it is closed today there is still a net benefit in capacity in being able to move people into the CBD from the north.
There is nothing stopping Circular Quay Station from being put underground however yes, it would cause some disruptions for a couple of years as each end of the new tunnels were interfaced with the rest of the City Circle Line. We've emerged from such periods of disruption before with little problem and if people want to go to Circular Quay (and they still will) they can get on the tram from Wynyard. I do this as an alternative from simply changing trains at Wynard.
The Sydney Harbour Tunnel would easily accomodate the traffic from the Cahill Expressway and the Cahill Expressway viaducts should be demolished and replaced with tree-lined open space between the ferry wharves and the tran terminus. Rossinis and City Extra could be accomodated in purpose built, low profile buildings to keep the alfresco atmosphere alive.
This activity would also end the curse on Sydney where a road is farcically named after a Labor Premier who destroyed a key part of Sydney's transport system.
The grades are wrong for putting the rail underground - the Quay is lower than the Rocks area or the Domain area. You'd have to re-tunnel most of the city loop - it would be much more expensive and disruptive than just removing the Expressway.
Erm actually there is something stopping moving circular quay underground; stations at Wynyard and St James are far, far too elevated. There’s no way a mainline railway could descend such height in such a short distance, the grades would be impossible.
And how did J.J. Cahill destroy anything? He got circular quay station built and the inner city loop finished. And before the harbour tunnel was built; the Cahill expressway was vital infrastructure, which removed a lot of traffic from gridlocking the city streets. If you’re talking about the trams; that began under his predecessor McGirr, and Cahill did a lot to prolong the tram network in his premiership.
@@danieleyre8913 Not correct, Dan. The tunnels leading out of St James and Wynyard go up to where they arrive at the viaduct and the run to St James in particular is quite long. There would absolutely be no issue with making the change, even if the station had to shift a bit towards the Royal Botanic Gardens to accomodate the change in grade.
This was discussed years ago when Paul Keating first commented on it and even the railways said the change is possible.
@@vintageradio3404 Where can an article be found online where the railways have said it is possible or Paul Keating? I can find sources galore for Keating wanting to remove the road but nothing about Keating wanting to remove the elevated station.
All I can find online are a bunch of dopey lightweight news articles from dopey Australian journalists (who sound like they should stick to Rugby League). Yes you are correct that Circular Quay station is at a higher elevation than both Wynyard and St James and that the track inclines on both approaches.
However; Circular Quay is 6m above sea level and Wynyard is roughly 4m above sea level, so that’s ~2m incline over ~0.9 km of connecting track. So an average of 1 in 45 gradient. I know that the maximum gradient near circular quay is a stretch of 1 in 33 on the approach to circular quay from St James, and that would be among the steepest allowed in the NSW mainline.
Now let’s say generously that this hypothetical underground circular quay station was 4m underground (it would probably need to be deeper); then it would need to descend 8m in that ~0.9km from Wynyard. This would mean about a 1 in 12 gradient, which would far far too steep for the NSW mainline standards. I frankly don’t think that one of those big double decker 8 car Sydney EMU’s could hope to handle such a gradient.
@@danieleyre8913 There is nothing that says an underground Circular Quay Station has to be any further underground than any of the other city stations are, which means it need only be below the surface. The grade of the tunnels is not an issue - the only issue is keeping the ocean as the land the station box would sit in is partly reclaimed. The Tank Stream would also have to be diverted somehow.
Paul Keating did say he wanted the "Cahill Expressway" gone but he didn't just mean the road. He meant the whole structure and the Keating Government even offered up most of the money (80/20) to fund the whole job.
Who cares, leave it there, as it’s function outweighs any aesthetic change. Furthermore, the view from the walkway along the Cahill Expressway is worth the lift trip from Circular Quay promenade to the foot path.
Yes
It’s those apartments that got built around the mid 90s that kind of blocked the view of the Opera house and the botanical Gardens from the circular Quay vantage point. It has really spoilt the landscape.
I catch the train for the airport and I always give overseas travellers the heads-up to be ready for an amazing view. They are never disappointed. Agree it's the best view from a train station. The view from the other side not great, but you can't have everything. A shame the highline has been shelved. It would be so popular.
Thanks for the video handsome man ❤
The simple fact is the Cahill expressway will never be torn down. Unless the train line and station can be also be removed, there’s no point getting rid of the expressway. The inconvenience caused by such a project would far outweigh the luxury of being able to walk from the nearby maccas to the waterfront with unobstructed views. Additionally, the barrier of the ESCLR further blockages pedestrians. Love it or hate it, the express way forms a vital part of the Sydney’s Road infrastructure, not just for cars but the multiple public transport lines that require it and remove them from the CBD by providing a bypass. I would rather see any money set aside for such a project, re allocated to the upcoming Circular Quay redevelopment
Awesome video thank you for making videos about Sydney the world's most beautiful city
Sydney is replacing Parramatta road with Light Rail?!?!?! no... ok this is pretty good too
Back on the Cahill Expressway plans - happens every few years. You talk about the damage to views as though that's something we should worry about. The only recipients of the improved views resulting in the destruction of the Cahill would be expensive office buildings, and I don't see why taxpayers should fork out cash to improve their harbour sightlines. The High Line may have merit but it would take a working integration to enable traffic from the lower north shore to enter the tunnel for both directions - northwards and southwards. After all the tunnel entry/exit is further from the bridge which feeds North Sydney and Milsons Point areas. Then there's the impact on vehicle flows that will come with the Western Harbour Tunnel to be considered.
Where the Opera House is used to be a tram terminal.
The ferry wharves and light rail would “block” the city meeting the harbour in a large piazza irrespective of whether the Cahill Expressway was demolished.
That being said, I’d be in favour of sending the trains underground; removing the roadway, and replacing it a nice modern design ‘floating’ transparent pedestrian walkway to allow sunlight and better views of the harbour l; provide some shelter against those occasional Sydney downpours that trap people, allow the Bridge to Botanical Gardens pedestrian walk to remain, and allow tourists that amazing view from up top.
Keep the cafes, restaurants, ice cream shops etc; in nice little village store setups. Freestanding little shops. Lotsa trees. More grass and gardens and seats. Close George Street to traffic from Bridge Street to the bridge altogether and make the Rocks Market permanent and week-long.
“Sending the trains underground” would require having to also make St James station, Wynyard station, and Museum & Town Hall stations further underground.
Because Wynyard station and St James station are too elevated. There simply is not enough distance between those stations and circular quay for a mainline railway to get underground, the grade would be far too steep.
And beyond the cost of essentially rebuilding the entire city loop underneath the current on being completely prohibitive: It would be to the detriment of those other stations, sending them further underground. And just to current station circular quay station underground, something that isn’t even needed, it’s just as all a hypothetical aesthetic improvement.
I don’t mean to be rude or anything; but I am noticing a lack of physical intuition and ignorance of anything technical or engineering related among millennials and zoomers and a propensity to support completely unrealistic and badly considered ideas. And I have to wonder about the education system you’ve been through.
Knowing Sydney this will result in the Eastern Distributor having a toll both ways and the Anzac Bridge also adding a toll
And we'll give it all to private operators to print money
And all signage will be in Arabic and Chinese
People were against it when it was built.
The promise was how wonderful the pink granite would look.
i will never understand how people thought: we should build freeways on the pretty waterfront everyone likes to look at and visit.
its like thinking: hey you know our balcony with a view of the beach? what if we park our car there?!
Ultimately, it's just not important enough of a project. Sure, I'd love for the roadway to be either turned into a park or removed, but it's not going to make much difference to the actual living conditions of NSW residents. The current government had to review a lot of the previous government's promised infrastructure projects. They didn't remove any funding, they just removed projects that weren't funded. This was probably never going to go ahead.
I thought the highline idea was great as it definitely would have created an amazing elevated space for residents and tourists to enjoy the views of the harbour. Agree the train station has amazing views and it would be a shame to lose that. Underneath the expressway definitely needs an upgrade, the station area and the open spaces either side did feel quite dirty and uniniviting the last time i visited.
They’re not dirty at all, no tourists ever find it in inviting, more are most likely impressed with the infrastructure.
With the railway below the Cahill Expressway, demolioshing the road is not going to be an easy task and I dare say the city circle will have to be closed for a time, which will cause chaos for the rail network. It would, however, be great to see both removed.
Most of sydney lives many kilometres west of this and would bitterly resent billions of public money being spent on it
Important to include cycle lanea
They should extend it all the way across the bridge. Probably not ready for that yet, lots of people still drive in Sydney
I feel that making a 'High Line' will disconnect that area from the ground level of the CBD similar to the underground walkways of Toronto that left the main streets barren.
I'd still rather the 'High Line' over the freeway but i see the complete demolition of the car part as the best option.
Does anyone else see it the same way or am I just over thinking it?
As a Sydneysider I can tell you that this topic is never discuss in Sydney and its importance to the average Sydney resident is non existent! It seems the only people who are actually interested in this topic are the occasional politician with no policies and as content for you tubers based in Europe or North America who have never been to Sydney.
One incorrect point about this analysis..
The Harbour Tunnel does not provide access to CBD East directly. Its primary purpose is sending traffic East on William St, or into the Eastern Diatributor to the Airport, and Beaches, South Eastern suburba.
There is a way to access the city via Woolloomooloo but it design have much calacity and is generally very slow.
Changing this would be pretty difficult without removing a large chunk of Domain parkland near the Governor Phillip Fountainz and make accessing the Domain more difficult from the CBD (ie. Just shifting an issue).
It also wasnt particularly well explained that the rail line itself is on a viadact so it doesnt inpede pedestrian access other than for station entry and a few shops and food outlets.
Anything that makes it more difficult to take cars into the cbd isa good thing.
@@jack2453 The Cahill expressway actually removed traffic from the cbd, prior to its completion; all cars for the eastern suburbs trying to get to the north shore had to drive through the cbd and that traffic caused gridlock. The Cahill expressway is segregated from the cbd and pedestrians.
Removing the Cahill expressway would just return traffic between the eastern suburbs and the north shore to the cbd. Because a lot of the eastern suburbs cannot conveniently get to the harbour tunnel, and to make it convenient for them would require more expensive and destructive works.
So hate it as much as you want; it is best to just keep it. The alternative is much worse.
@@danieleyre8913 The alternative is that a much higher proportion of trips between the eastern suburbs and the north shore are made by public transport (or not made at all). But even if you take the defeatist argument that we can't actua7lly get rid of traffic but just shuffle it around, there is nowhere in the Eastern Suburbs that needs to enter the CBD to access the tunnel. You are making stuff up.
@@jack2453 The eastern suburbs are not well served by public transport. You might be lucky and live near the train line, but otherwise you have to take crummy buses and then interchange. And most of the north shore has even worse public transport. And there’s no plans to improve their public transport any time soon.
People will just drive. I’m not being defeatist, I’m being realistic. I don’t like the Cahill expressway but it’s a lesser of two evils.
@@danieleyre8913 The entitled silvertails in the north shore and the eastern suburbs need to wake up and get on the bus.
As many have mentioned in the comments, the road above the CQ station is ok. It's barely noticeable to most people and doesn't block the views except for the expensive water front office buildings. It also has a walk path. The station might just need a refurbishment. There are also other roads that are being hated more, like Parramatta Road. Also under the pressure of inflation and high interest rate, the government should spend less on unnecessary projects.
A high line would be great, but what if, in addition to the green space, there were a light rail that goes from Barangaroo Metro station to Circular quay up there as well through the green space? Just an idea, probably a bit of a vanity project, but if it went on to the art gallery, over towards Pots Point, down Victoria Road to Kings Cross station and on to the SCG linking up with the other light rail lines there, that may be a possibility. Again, just a thought. Probably not a great one because it's a transport link that just links with other transport link and doesn't really go anywhere other than Circular Quay, Potts point and the SCG. On the other hand, it would give an alternate location for people from the SCG to leave rather than everyone trying to get from the SCG to central by foot or by the single light rail link. I'm hot and cold on my own idea to be honest.
Maybe clad the whole thing in giant mirrors, reflecting something more pleasant.
As a recent visitor to Sydney and someone who has visited and supported the Highline, I think this proposal is a great idea. It doesn't seem like that many car use or need that road way so why not repurpose it and improve the area at the same time. That's a statement and not a question.
That is an incorrect statement. Many cars use and need the road. It's an integral piece of infrastructure to Sydney's network.
Getting rid of the viaduct would be the dumbest and stupidest decision Sydney would make.
It has its uses and is vital to Sydney. All they need to do is clean it up and make it look pretty
Get rid of the Toast Rack buildings I say, they block more views than the expressway.
when i was in Sydney the harbor bridge was closed because of a crash and the entirety of Sydney including the western suburbs came to a halt it was insane so getting rid of that lane will be a disaster . Traffic is Sydney is insanely bad.
If you get rid of the Cahill express instead of paying around $7 a day tolls using the tunnel costs $26 a day
Will never happen. The Cahill Expressway is a critical alternative route for when the harbour tunnel is closed - which happens regularly - sometimes several times a week.
well said.
They keep rolling out plans to remove and nothing happens
I shot some amazing timelapse shots up there next to the road at Vivid last year. A high line space there would be really nice.
Whatever Sydney City Council touches, breaks. We can’t even find rubbish bins anymore on Pitt st north of Pitt st mall - the government needs to stop wasting money on feel good fairy tale projects. The current setup is super functional and iconic
Well said.
Surely you can’t argue that it blocks and cuts off the city from the quay, but then the alternative plan is to leave it
Anyone who promotes getting rid of the expressway has clearly never been driving in or out of the city when a overheight truck shuts down the tunnel. The harbour tunnel is insufficient to funnel all north and southbound traffic daily.
🚅 don't you all enjoy railroad
🚈 trams, trains etc are just so cool
🚞 take a ride in my ''transportation'' folder, (folder 4) :)
The road doesn't block anyone's view...well, anyone of importance, only a few lower floor office workers. At the same time it provides a great walkway view; one of the best in the world and a great view from the northern platform of the station.
The park idea would be an expensive under-used vanity project by a desperate government and the rabid issue clutching greenists.
Or better yet turn the roadway into more platforms for the station and expand it to Wynyard station
What's so beautiful about circular quay? Apart from the Opera House and the bridge, the rest of it is greatly overvalued IMHO
I think simply adding allot of greenery could make it look allot better...
Very short sighted idea. Not everyone coming from the east needs to go through the tunnel, and not everyone going over the harbour bridge wants to go into the city or our west. Removing this would force tens of thousands of cars through km's of road right into the centre of the city, and/or through North Syd unnecessarily.
It would be too expensive to demolish.
Maybe the road could go - I'm ambivalent on that one.
BUT:
The railway remains absolutely essential to the network. I cannot see how to re-route it other than by putting it under the ground. But the there would be impossibly steep grades, particularly on the Wynyard side. Undergrounding? Not realistic!
"Sydney's first settlers" come on man
The state government should have taken up the offer from Paul Keating.
Who said that this is Sydney's most hated road where are the surveys that show that this is Sydney's most hated road. Where is the evidence? Show me the evidence. I recently took tourists from the UK around Sydney on a number of roads including this one and one that heads west from the north side to the ANZAC bridge and they both remarked on how wonderful it is to see roads diving down through the city between the buildings - not at ground level but raised so that you can see into the buildings. They thought it fascinating and wonderful. One of the things that they remarked was that it shows the city is a bustling, contemporary city, and it clearly shows that people live work play and move about within its limits. This iconic road (and others like it) show exactly that. Why do we try and remove all evidence that people live and work within the city. Or that it's always just an area for play and relaxation. This is the most ridiculous idea. Clearly the road was built to carry out a purpose as is the railway line trying to move or get rid of both is ridiculous in the extreme. I suppose you can always hide the railway line but you still gonna have the noise every time a train comes through. And what do you propose to do about the traffic that does not want to go through a tunnel, and wants to drive across the bridge because they enjoy the view and the fresh air which people should be allowed to do.
How would all the comuters and travellers use circular quay without a rail transfer option? There would be chaos. The light rail couldnt cope.
I thought this was going to be about Parramatta Road
Isn’t harbour tunnel toll unlike harbour bridge so people avoid it?
No toll to exit the city either through the tunnel or bridge northbound. Both the bridge and tunnel have tolls southbound to enter the city. The ED has a northbound toll, toward the city. ED has no southbound toll to exit the city. Domain tunnel has no tolls either way.
im for getting rid of the road and station completely. sure a green walkway would be better than a road but it still blocks off the traditional gateway to not only the city but the country. removing the road itslef won't make much difference unless you want to go from the city to north sydney or kirrabilly because the tunnel comes out past those roads but people can deal with that
It would be good if the State government focused more on the areas of New South Wales beyond the Newcastle - Sydney - Wollongong area for a while rather than anymore useless grandstanding money pit projects.
The Riverside Expressway in Brisbane should but honestly could never be removed. Brisbane City was put in the right place at the time but the wrong place for the future.
Turning the hated road into an elevated walkway bespeaks of an intelligence and vision sadly lacking in govt!
Closing the expressway is one of the stupidest ideas I have heard, only someone who doesn't use this or the tunnel on a daily basis would think it's a good idea, the tunnel is at capacity most days during peak, closing the expressway will force more traffic through the tunnel causing even more delays, plus when the tunnel gets closed for whatever reason the expressway is the backup to get across the harbour, I wouldn't call this Sydney's most hated road, there a plenty of other roads such as Parramatta road, crossing the Spit and many more that are far worse than the expressway.
How often is the tunnel closed in the average year?
@@jack2453 Unexpected full or partial closures happen randomly due to an accident inside the tunnel, or usually an over height truck ends up setting off a major traffic incident (over height truck normally happens in the south bound tunnel), when traffic is at a snails pace most days northbound, the cahill is the backup option as it allows the traffic to bypass the tunnel and get to the bridge.
I am all for getting rid of the eyesore and making something nice, but simply closing it with no alternate route such as a third harbour crossing is not an option, and will make the trip via the tunnel even worse.
@@jack2453 I would say instances amount to over 100 times a year, planned + unplanned, partial + total closures. It's significant, and the Cahill is a godsend in those instances.
Idk anyone who hates that road, it has an elevated path way to get a better view to walk accross, what do u mean
Ok making the road into a park would be an alright idea
I THOUGHT THERE WERE PLANS OF TURNING THE CAHILL EXPRESSWAY INTO A PARK, YOU COULD ALSO HAVE BIKE PATHS
OR IF THEY CAN MOVE CIRCULAR QUAY STATION UNDERGROUND, THEN REMOVE THE CAHILL EXPRESSWAY AND CONVERT THE CURRENT STATION TO A PARK
*underwater (not underground). Would be the most expensive train station build in the history of Australia by a long shot. With government shutting down all the potential future tunnelling projects moving forward, Syd in the coming years may not have the expertise to undertake this.
@@mozzavans YET THE STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS WANT TO TUNNEL NEW HIGH SPEED RAIL TUNNELS THROUGH SYDNEY TOWARDS BRISBANE AND MELBOURNE
This is the most historically significant site in the country, and we put a railway station and freeway over it!
Just tear the f#$%&er down! Don't stop to think about it, just do it. We don't need a "highline" walk on top of and spoiling an existing "lowline" walk i.e. the street level walk along the waterfront. That should be pretty enough on its own. Put the station underground. The freeway can go where everything car-related from the 50s belongs.
What's this 'Carl' expressway you speak of?
He kind of has a posh accent, doesn't he? 😆 'Cultivated' accent. An accent that doesn't really exist much anymore.
Not knocking any of his well-produced vids or anything. But just saying.
@@eddielong8663 and that's saying something, as I'm from Adelaide! 😅
Always has been pronounced that way. After Joe Cahill.
Not a good plan. That train station and roadway is like the checkpoint charlie of 'this bit of sydney is amazing and truly great when you get to the harbour' and 'the rest of sydney is utter garbage'. look out for those cheeky seagulls there they will swipe your Big Mac out of your hand in a second
No one use the cahil expressway. Why dont people use the harbour tunnel?
🙄 Why don't you read a map? Not hard to determine closing this would gridlock the city CBD & North Syd.