I forgot to add in some maps you can't fly over 20km away from the combat zone without getting telported around back into the zone. I'm tired Boss. 3% off Gaijin Store store.gaijin.net/catalog.php?category=WarThunder&partner=IronArmenian&partner_val=u5g16ff2 and you get my decal too
The 20km range is kind of a gimmick most of the time people are only about 10 km out, but even then I only target specific aircraft that I know will be annoying to the team, like helicopters, or the F-16, F-14, Tornados, anything with GBUs, but if I see a prop I will let him reign terror.
And also the primary reason the Pantsir is the only one like that is other countries don't really make a whole lot of vehicle based spaa platforms anymore they're usually ground based turrets and stuff like the patriot missile system, but I'd love to see more anti air being added (especially for France, Italy and Japan).
Telling about "other nations Just dont built anythink like this" is cringe. Then dont add this May be? Why thor with 12 km range was not good for ussr? Also why dont give apaches their longbow then? Not usa problem that ussr/russia didnt make arh atgm smh
I think a good way to balance the Pantsir out would be to introduce ARMs. I'd imagine adding the AGM-88 and a F-4G would be a good start as well as adding them and the ALARM to the Tornado. Make them afraid to keep their radar on lest they eat a HARM or an ALARM.
Crotale according to french: 16km range. Crotale according to chinese: 15km range. Crotale according to Gaijin: 10km is best I can do, take it or leave it. France and PRC are the only two producers of the system, where else have Gaijin gotten their "secret documents"?
@@aenodarr7936 1)according to PRC range of their Crotale is 15km, since 1980's and they had no involvement in one of the french upgrades; 2)did you just mix up VT-1 and VT-3? 3)for Pantsir it's 2008.
What's hilarious is how the Ukraine war has also shown how modern Russian claimed capabilities of military equipment is very suspect. Yet Gaijin never fails to implement their equipment according to the specs. While they admittedly likely get access to that info easier and is more readily available than that of say the Challenger II and Abrams, it's amazing to me how they never add any negative modifiers to their country's tanks or take the specs with a grain of salt. German late war tanks had the armor debuff due to material shortages late in the war in the game, yet they never did that for the T-34 which is known to have been horrendously built in great numbers early on and even well into late war out of need. There are aspects of the bias which I think are 100% true. They seem to favor mechanics for their vehicles that help Russian and Soviet vehicles the most. The way that APHE performs in game, while Russian vehicles used it for so long is one example. APHE doesn't blow up like a hand grenade, it creates a wider cone of dispersion in most scenarios and often the fuse for the HE filler is destroyed as it tries to penetrate the tank, thus nullifying it. And their ridiculous modeling of angled performance, while I get how it could be hard to make it more realistic, is again a huge advantage to Russian vehicles since they all have great angled performance. But in reality at high angles, even with that great soft head performance, the shell would scoop the armor and not make it into the tank. But in WT the shell always goes in, totally against the laws of physics and reality, regardless of the angle just so long as it meets some arbitrary threshold. I have heard the T-34 used to have random riccochet modifiers but I know that's been added to all sloped armor or above certain angles or however it functions. So I don't think the game intentionally makes the T-34 stronger than it was. But the T-34 also benefits immensely from volumetric and how it's implemented. The driver hatch and the T-34/76 1942 and 1943 turrets have the most ridiculous gun mantlet which just doesn't care if it's penetrated at times. Like they forget that the gun is inside that mantlet. The fact that engines and components take no longer to repair even when they're shot 10 times, which is why assholes use the IS-1 and IS-2 in reverse. Those are things I don't think Gaijin intentionally does, they're just issues which can benefit other nations as well and do. But I will 100% say if they ever added the T-14 Armata, it'd be un-killable from the front by anything but a hydrogen bomb because they'd believe every thing the Russians sent them in terms of specs. Never mind that it's claimed capabilities are extremely dubious, it'd be the best tank ever. Maybe one day they can build more than 2 a year and have them properly function.
the thing makes me losing my mind is the fact that the Pantsir is the only AA that can track multiple targets when other older ingame radars can track more targets aswell, but it is not modeled in the game for them, makig evary change of target extremely painful!
@@zohaibtariq7351 ..."the only AA that can track multiple targets when other older ingame radars can track more targets aswell" and not to ruin on your parade but if f-14 get the multi target tracking it will break the arb
The problem is that in real life, Pantsir is, practically speaking, the only SPAA of that level and that kind, nothing even comes close to it. Crotale system is in game already and it's not as good (just like irl), USA's newest MML and Stryker Shorad programs were closed (and only MML would be semi comparable), british AA systems are ehhh and etc. Adding Patriot, MAMBA, IRIS-T and many other AA systems that are better than Pantsir in accuracy and range is probably impossible as those are not really designed to move around the battlefield at all. Even if you add those, it wouldn't solve the problem, but will only allow devs to add BUKs, C-300/400 and etc. and then everyone will cry about those. Strengh of nations playing against Russia lies in helicopters and planes with f&f missiles anyway, so you can kinda kill pantsir if you use terrain good, while it's SA missiles are still on the way.
so one nations gets an infinitely better vehicle than the others (while also having the best ground attackers you can buy with GE or Money), hmmm if there would be a phrase for that spacific situation...
See this is kinda why you want some goofball to bring a Sturm tiger out Because that fucker can range the enemy spawn in based off the cap point distance and just Overpressure anything over there
Don’t forget that the “reason” pansir was added was that the tunguska was “not good enough” as a top tier aa even though it was already one of the best aa systems in game before them
@@thatregularguythey did nerf the Tunguska to shit, the missile rework really did affect the Tunguska a lot. All they had to do was not do the missile rework
As a Japan main, top tier is literally impossible to play right now. I always get put with the US, and face not only Russia, but also China, meaning no air. Pantsirs, TY-90s, and more. Then the enemy team gets full air superiority, and I die a horrible death. I wish Japan just had something on the ground to counter that. My condolences to anyone not playing Russia. That 90% win rate they have is quite horrific. I wonder if new players know that the endgame they are grinding for is just die to Russia.
I main top tier US GRB. My win rate for all GRB I did during July 2023 was 32%(keeps going down). I have 65% team placement every battle and around 1.1 KD with 1100 score average.
Don't worry! I've come from the future and I am here to tell you Japan finally got a top tier SPAA. Now you get the tan-SAM, with bigger stingers on a bigger truck! "All problems solved Japan top tier fine now" -Gaijin probably-
Lets not forget when the Pantsir came out, almost every other top tier spaa was fucking nerfed, so the beam riding and reaction time was made more "realistic" TWICE.
oooohh.. it's fkn awful now... Hiting something with Roland 3 missiles was already pretty challenging because they were quite slow, but now it's fkn almost impossibile, slight course alteration and the missile goes fkn fubar.
@@jakubw.2779 First spawning the roland when playing france was one of my joys, blasting those pos soviet heli's was so...cathartic. Now its makes me hate playing my fave nations more.
@@The_RussianBias the missile changes wouldn't be as bad if not for couple of things. First is that many aircraft weapons system outranges AA, second they changed everything and then added Pantsir S1. Cas is bad. It really is. I lost count on how many times i've got spawnkilled by the same F14 in one match from god knows how far and i couldn't even lock on to it with aa.
That 20km missile range will make sure nothing will change, other than Pantsirs on roofs becoming easy pickings. Gaijin should just replace the pantsir with the tor (which they said they would give to the ussr tech tree eventually) and refund pantsir players the golden eagles they've used for the vehicle (camos, talismans... you know the deal)
@@AlreadyTakenTag Exactly, this is the type of shit that gets me with them. They'll happily remove vehicles for balance, then stamp their feet when a Russian vehicle is broken as fuck and needs pulled or it's stats changed for balancing. They take such a bullshit half-realistic half-whatever approach to the game. They'll put the EBR 1951 at 5.3 despite it being grossly high in BR compared to most anything else with it's capabilities. They'll remove the Maus and SAV.120 or whatever that cancer Swedish auto-120mm gun tank was called. But the Pantsir having 8km more range? Nah, it's fine. We'll just add in the same capability for the other nations in like 6 months or a couple years if it's a minor nation.
@@adamg7984as an Israeli main slowly working through the tree, what’s long range AA? All that tree has is a M3 half track with a couple 20mm, 2 M163s, and a Soviet thing (and then the ZSU-57-2 which is useless against anything but close stationary helis)
@@hoosierfarmkideh I beg to differ the twin 57 have great ballistics and can engage planes better than contemporary big cannon AA's like every other 40mm AA without Proxy Fused Shells
@@princessapplestrach6327 It’s trash as an AA due to no guidance or proxy so can’t imagine the 40mm ones. I’ve had more success with the TCM-20 or M16 MGMC that it (I have hit one plane and 2 hovering helicopters with it total) It’s a baby 2S38 as a TD though lol I love it for that, especially in PVE.
Spawned in a heli and just started to get off the ground, already had MAWS screaming at me and died under 20 seconds on Sinai, dude was parked at the edge of the map where he can see spawns directly and there's no cover out there. That was my first experience with this thing lmao
>get killed by soviet CAS from space >spawn in SPAA >out of range, missiles too bad to go up vertically for 14 km >gets killed by said satelite >spawn in jet >get shot down by pantshit >leave game that pantsir just enchances the strength of the soviet cas which is the worst factor of it all.
Russia has arguably the best top tier/end of the line vehicles~ Top tier MBT: BVM (may be beaten by other nations now) Top tier light light vehicles: 2s38, BMP-2m, Khrizantema (Khrizantema's ATGMs are basically the best in the game for ground vehicles) Top tier AA: Pantsir Top tier fighter: Mig-29 Top tier CAS aircraft: -MIG-27K- Top tier drone: Has a second missile that does 10km rather than 8 Top tier Helicopter: Ka-50/52, Mi-28nm Top tier bluewater: Kronshtadt Top tier coastal: SKR-1/7 No other nation really has an equivalent to those vehicles or anything as powerful, especially when it comes to helis and AA. And for anyone curious, the music in Iron's video is the "Night Train To Nebelsbad"
BVM's only real weakness is fighting on hilly terrain, where NATO tanks with their superior gun depression angles and turret armour will beat it. Your also forgot the best VTOL jet in the game, Yak-141. Pre top tier I would argue they arent all that powerful, other nations can compete at like 10.0 range but at top tier - nope.
I'd argue that the F-16 is the better CAS aircraft, 6 AGM's and much better flight performance than the Mig27. But yeah everything else is on point. and don't forget that the BMP-2M basically has the same missiles as the Khrisantema, only difference is that the khris' missiles have 0.5km more range.
@@bagofsunshine3916 a lot of aircraft are much better at cas than the mig 27 like the mirage 2000 tornado tomcat and so on, also the bmp2m has kornets not khrizentama missiles
AP shells also don't spall when they pen 6mm of armor or less and guess what tanks have less than 6mm of armor on the inside. Well of course it's the Russian T-80 tanks. It might be a coincidence but it seems a bit suspicious.
Another problem about this monstrosity AAA is that it makes Russian cas Unstoppable like you can't engage mig-27's in your jet anymore because this thing can just see you, you have to play peek-a-boo with these stupid trucks and have to engage them so far you can't even render them in. (Edit: another fun fact actually a few America and a lot of other countries have nothing that could be added to actually compared to this monstrosity unless it's a entire like Carriage cart of vehicles also they could have literally just given Russia the tor but no they went out of their way to add this thing
There is the hvsd/adams. Could be added to America and Israel. Then they could buff that French missile, and maybe bs something for Japan. And give Italy the ability to have more rounds on its otomatic, move it down in br, add the centuaro version. Fix the tracking and maybe find a prototype aspede spaa or something to add aswell.
@@casematecardinal that does sound like a good idea even though I don't really know about those vehicles I don't even play that much ground RB but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how disgusting this vehicle is
@@snek1557 thats for sure. The vehicles I mentioned are mostly prototypes except for the French one thats already in game. They just refuse to give it correct stats.
@@snek1557 its hard to believe I know but you're just going to have to believe the publicly available military documentation. Sadly gaijin doesn't have faith in it.
They should've stopped around systems with less than 15km if not 10km of range. Though i wonder now, how much is it's accuracy at above 10km, cause if it somehow still has extreme accuracy even after like 15km of range after maneuvers and still also hit against a multitude of countermeasures, it gets quite suspicious.
It’s also a double edged sword iron, because some content creator brought this up before but CAS can still marginally function even with the 10km SAMS thanks to guided munitions, but the Pantsir shuts the airspace down entirely meaning Russian aircraft are free to manoeuvre care free. It’s a buff to Russian CAS as well, because the Mig 27 wasn’t bad enough. What’s even uglier is the dynamic between CAS and SHORAD because there’s a really fine and hard line between CAS and SHORAD being that SHORAD either out ranges CAS guided munitions and cas becomes impossibly hard to play or CAS out ranges SHORAD and AAA becomes prey. If they added something like the AGM-45 Shrike we would have a cool dynamic where by there’s a fight and struggle between the two as the AAA turns their radar on and off while the attacker pursues closer.
@@The_RussianBias i cant take this comment seriously, you have TV and laser guided bombs and missiles that make you par competitive with other nations on top of a good airframe, its probably not the best yes but it is certainly by far not the worst, even if it was the worst its effectiveness cannot be understated
@@redundantstuff100 the mig27 can't dogfight and it's inferior to every other major nations top tier cas. Hell ever France has a better cas plane. Also the tv bombs only start tracking at less than 4km and if you want to use laser or tv bombs you have a max of 4 and when you do take all 4 you can't bring anything to defend yourself in the air
I would like to add that China has a lot of different options for AD systems yet to be added: Yitian (TY-90 launcher), early 1990s vehicle HQ-17 (which is effectively a better Tor M1 but mounted on a large wheeled 8x8 chassis with better radar), 2015 Yitian 2 (missiles are much larger, possibly medium range) was literally just unveiled SWS2 LD35 (gun and missile complex on a large wheeeled 8x8) also literally just unveiled And possibly one of the most cool looking AFVs: Type 625E (gun and missile complex, also on the very same 8x8 chassis as the HQ-17), 2022
Yea China has a shed load of stuff that could have been added but Gajin where lazy and wanted to put TOR in China and Russia together but one of the Devs on the forum admitted it wasn't performing well enough to be added to the Russian tree which was why pantsir was added lol. After PGZ-04A China could have: PGL-625, HQ-7, Yitian I & II, SWS 2, TianLong 12, FK-1000, 2000 & 3000, HQ-17/A, 625E, LY-70 & HQ-11. Also TY-20s are incoming for a Yitian upgrade.
considering how real life radar works, if you're within 100m of the ground the radar should barely pick you up anyways. Theres too much interference from ground supported radars. Its the same reason passenger planes cannot be seen by ATC's when they are low enough and have to rely on visuals and radio. But the pantsir will literally get radar blips on a heli that is below it (in elevation, behind a hill)
You can't even hit the deck, you have to spawn at the airfield and stay down to have a chance, i spawned in a G91 and dove, before i got to the ground i got taken out by a Pantsir, 20 seconds afte r spawning
And all the time i heard from RUclipsrs: "russian bias? Lmao, great joke!" No one actually showed the problem before pantsir. Anti spall things in tanks, driver hatch, absurd armor of ISes and etc. But there is no russian bias, obj 906, pt-76-57 and 2c38 at right places with right characteristics. If only you guys, talked about it earlier pantsir wouldn't be a thing.
There is *one* downside to the Pantsir - it's an unarmoured truck with armoured glass, making it much more susceptible to fragmentation and overpressure. But then again the FlaRakRad has the same problem, and it doesn't even get the reinforced cab glass. And there is a tracked version of the Pantsir ;)
As a china main meaning were paired with russia most of the time. The pantsir is also a big problem. It's killing every aircraft so far ahead that makes any tor player cry.
Anyone who denies the ultra-obvious Russian bias that has been dug up in the game files with T34s and KV1s is part of the problem. They’re getting the same slider treatment tigers got way back when that nerfed their armor. Remember when tiger armor was like.. 10% weaker because historically the Germans had lower quality armor late in the war. Except the Russians get buffs not nerfs. You can ignore these things if you want. But you then have to admit you are part of the problem. Also there are no problems at top tier because we don’t play top tier. The T on Top is for TRASH. 2.3-7.3 is where the fun lives. 7.7 is where it dies. Just play the correct BRs. Easy.
Russian-speaking person here, I remember when they bought ads from the separatists (from donbas) Edit: they have collab with "atomic heart", the game that was sponsored by gazprom and even had collab with "army of russia" cloth brend
It's not, honestly. It's how people play the game. If you're really good at AA, then the Panstir is OP. Irl the Panstir is a pretty effective system for short range defense.
To be fair its hard to add player aa for other nations at top tier since they just dont have one All the other countries use systems with command vehicle, radar, missile etc, for example the patriot is an example of this system
Then that's why you don't add the Pantsir at all. That's why you just leave that one in the garage of ideas. But Gaijin don't actually give a fuck about balance, they never have and never will. They just want whatever the fuck they want, and for some reason that often means bullshit advantages for Russian vehicles. Like straight up, it happens a lot and I don't even think it's intentional most of the time, if not all of the time. But they probably don't see it as a bad thing when they see Russian vehicles doing well in the game because they're Russian and, even if just subconsciously, would be more expecting that result. Frankly, there's 2 scenarios. They're accidentally giving many Russian vehicles advantages, many of which they never had in reality or if they have such capabilities is questionable, or they legitimately are a bunch of Z patriot douche bags who want Russia Stronk memes to be in War Thunder and going against reality. They're very selective about realism and balance, when it suits Russian vehicles especially. But when it doesn't, they're very hesitant to listen to people who know better.
Also Pantsir is the one of two top tier anti-air systems (if you include ADATS) that has no minimal engagement distance thanks to its guns, whereas all other top tier AAs are fucked if helicopter appears within 500m distance.
@@Sveta7 Pantsir is basically non existent in Ukraine now as it was so bad. Only Buk's and Tor's seem to be used by Russians now as they actually perform. There is even a video of a Pantsir misfiring and almost blowing up soldiers 50 meters from it.
This and the russian tanks at top teir that require you to aim at certain spots in order to kill where as they aim anywhere and your whole crew is killed. And those weak spots can be easily covered by bushes...
@@romanboi3115You mean the one hit zone in which ammo goes black and doesnt detonate or APFSDS wont spall or just gets eaten by ERA even though its a perfect 90 degree impact
@@nuklear7074 Yet in real life, you hit the ammo carrousel in a Russian tank and it fucking explodes or catches fire catastrophically. Gaijin totally pulls some horse shit for Russian tanks, I just wish I knew if it was intentional or not. Because I'd like to believe it's just not and is a culmination of all their spaghetti code and shitty implementations of many mechanics in the game.
i had a russian bias moment yesterday a it1 killed me by shooting the rock that was in front of me i had 2 crew members left and i was about 20 meters away from the rock, but i still died because of 1 fragment
Yep that is realistic I do that with my type 75 which is jaapanese it’s not Russian bias it over pressure or a rock fragment gong through your crew which is completely realistic keep crying “Russian bias”😢
ITA and JAPN has 10-12G missiles at 9.0 and 9.7 (Type 93 & Mistral) USSR got Strella at 9.0 with 20G missiles. They don’t have any better missiles, OTO is alright but if enemy plane is aware you Might as well J out. Ah YES tunguska got nerfed hard -> ads Phantsir BMP-2M got nerfed by raising BR, adds APFSDS belt for no reason. (It over performace = buff it more. Russian bias is real but not the way ppl think. (Also ammo carousel 6mm anti spall/black hole armor)
The salty thing about pantsir is not the pantsir itself... they nerfed every missile in the game and then added the pantsir. Meaning the pantsir is miles ahead of AA performance. The ITO can't hit a helicopter going horizontally 2km away. Every missile is super slow now.
When it comes to Pantsir as the kind of vehicle it is, NATO currently doesn't have any equivalent when it comes to capability. It's generally because of differences in doctrine of NATO & Russia. That's why NATO never invested that heavily in making mobile air-defense systems, which the Soviets/Russians(China also maybe) did. But in terms of capability of the radars, there must be bias more or less
Yes and no, the problem is that the Nato counterparts are on a complete other level. For example there would be the Iris-T SLS or SLM which has a range of 25-40km, a ceiling of 20km and the main counterargument is that its made in Germany so that the biggest no no for GJ and the community to add it.
@@venusflytrap2622Yeah believe its called Eldenhet 98,its been a long time on forums passed to developers but gaijin just said nah!! Gaijin could add only the SLS for start
@@M0LOCK the German Eldenhet 98 can't be compared with pantsir, but rather it's like an equivalent of the Russian S-350 medium range SAM system. If they decided to add that, then it will justify them to add the same kind of missile systems to Russian tech tree as well
Hey remember that one time spookston found in the files that Russian top tier tanks don’t create any spall when penetrated and said “it happens to Chinese copycat tanks so it’s not Russian Bias”
But yes, jokes aside , I quit regularly playing the game about the time the IT-1 or whatever that ATGM T-55 was released, and I couldn't care at that point really. Back then it was that, it was ZSU-57. their indestructible heavies...
@@aenodarr7936 are you really saying that back in the day it took skill to use zsu-57-2? if thats so please keep smoking what you have so the dream never ends
@@jussi8111 it was German bias back then. that's what made the 57 great, not lack of volumetric; it was a hard counter to leopard 1 spam at the ~7.0-8.0 bracket. don't assume they don't know what it was like if you don't either.
always thought russian bias was a meme, but when I think about it, Impenetrable T-34 hatches, sloped armor effectiveness increasing exponentially at 60 degrees (surprise only russian vehicles have those angles) IS-2 having ammo it never had in real life to make it just able to penetrate the frontal turret cheeks of the King Tiger, Mig-29 given a 90s missile outperforming all other missiles in the game, Mig-23MLD dominating the meta for years. Things are adding up by now.
They should've added the TOR-M2 instead of the Pansir S1. Though I am a Pansir Player I ABSOLOUTELY believe they shouldnt have added it and instead it shouldve been the TOR-M2.
@@eliasl332 id say let it be. Pvp may have been shit but atleast you could actually make something from it. Mean like i grinded nearly the whole german heli tree in pvp. It was a blast. Tho heli pvp in the russia and chinese tree is just ass. Its literally fly to point A and kill 30 vehicles for 2k rp then go to point B to kill 20 vehicles for 1k rp. Super dead and forgotten
According to 6 CAS mains that appear in every single steam discussion about ground only gamemode, ground players are not the target playerbase and its instead plane players.
It wouldnt be an issue if they gaave us arm missiles but gayjin out right said they where to difficult to implment also there gave russia a literally airbase defense system thats literaly what the pantsir was built to do aslo they jeed to give all planes that have missile warning systems there missile warning systems
Well... if Russia get the latest SAM Trucks in the arsenal in War Thunder... They should give UK their latest SAM trucks... Land Ceptor (Sky Sabre)... which now has all in one trucks alongside the modular trucks... They can take their pick of which version being the weakest is 25KM and the strongest is 100KM.
Sky sabre depends on a command vehicle and a seperate track vehicle to go such distances. So no they cant add it. However, there is a simple fix. Have such command vehicles and radars placed at the back of the map and allow the player in the launcher control those systems from their location. Which would allow for a lot of coverage.
@@11Tits You only need the 3 truck system for the 60KM or 100KM coverage. The launch trucks have a 25KM radar built in. They also have portable tracking and launch controls on that truck. The 3 truck system consists of the missile launch and 25KM radar truck, Control and operations truck and the 100KM+ Radar truck. So if they were to add the 60KM or 100KM range, they would have to implement a system like you have mentioned... However if they want to release a comparable system to the Pantsir Truck... they can by simple adding the launch truck... but of course that means introducing a system that is faster and longer range than the Russian one... which already means unlikely but throw in the fact it means maps having to be much larger as the Russian Pantsir has already revealed.
best part is, like all russian vehicules in this game, the IRL counterparts are an embarrassement to all modern militairy hardware, Pantsir even more so. we literally saw how terribly it did in this war
Um idk if you follow only the propaganda but western equipment is getting destroyed all over Ukraine, so just out of curiosity how is that not embarrassing??
"wow i didn't care about obvious bias gaijin has toward russia and after all these years, it just got worse!" who oculd've seen it, oh I wonder why this happens, it's almost like when you actively ignore a bully hitting you in the face until you have no energy to fight back cause it's too late to realize maybe you should have faced the reality of the situation
Maybe one day they could add radar jammers so that you could have a module on your plane that would do that but sacrificing like half of your ordanance for it to balance it out? Not sure what planes historically had radar jamming technology and if that even applies to the period of jets that we have in game now.
Most aircraft had internal jammers, besides stuff like flankers/early migs and the F16, the F16 would just sacrifice the center pylon which isnt that important. For the russians its a bit more punishing because they need two pods but they are only on the wingtips so just minusing some heat seekers Imo the real solution is adding harms, which makes AA players have to be smart with the radar and how long they have it up
@@ultrawing5637 when it comes to what payload it replaced I'd say it's worth being a bit unrealistic for balance and still limit the amount one could take but we'd obviously still need to test and see how it would work. But if they do end up adding HARMs I'd be totally down too
My Stormer can't hit any plane and can only sometimes hit helicopters. And even when they do hit a heli, sometimes a heli like the Gay Sharks (Ka-50 and Ka-52) will just shrug them off with no problem while I just helplessly as their missiles fly towards me. When it comes to planes I just literally watch as my missile just PHASE THROUGH THEM SOMEHOW LIKE WHAT.
They nerfed the Tunguska to make it look like we need the Pantsir.. Also, with update fire&ice they said Russia will get the Tor soon (devstream of the update where China got the Tor) so why did they not get that and instead the Pantsir... Tor at least has some downsides
I remember playing top tier sim, and I thought to myself, maybe I will try to do something with A-10. I spawned and my RWR started screaming at me but I started flying and when I was like 100m off the runway, friendly AV-8 died to pantsir, and minute later, after trying to do anything I died too. Like there was no chance for any of us to literally do ANYTHING, I'm not talking about doing CAS, not russian team coulding even get on the sky. And about russian bias, don't forget about infamous vikhr missile that used to have 14km of range and direct fire mode, when hellfire had 8km and wanky top attack and they nerfed it to have 10km.
Good, france C.A.S. ♫ Elaboration: In War Thunder you can currently kill a tank or get a couple of assist to spawn in a plane. Planes usually are able to kill at least 2 tanks per life if the pilot isn't an idiot because EVEN IF people have AA, EVEN MORE at Br-s below 7, planes are difficult to kill. There are HELICOPTERS that can be spawned as soon as the round begins! Bombers can drop a payload that can flatten half the map without any notice and with no problem at all. Most planes in higher Br move faster than light and have LITERAL cannons that can down your tank in one hit. So, yeah. france C.A.S. ♫ It needs to be COMPLETELY reworked in tank Br to make it ACTUALLY balanced because, up to now, there is NO WAY that a good plane player can get taken down by tanks at least as fairly as tanks can take down each other.
You didnt really think there was russian bias? Have you not played 9.7-10.7 lately? Literally every single russian Premium at that br is broken beyond comprehension. The Su-25k can eat SPAA missiles 3-4 times and not even be disabled, the S-25O rockets dont even need to be near a tank to kill it. The Ka-50 not only can be “destroyed” and still stay airborne for minutes and kill tanks, but the Vikhr missiles can literally be used to counter SPAA. Then you have the 2S38 which… well enough fucking said. And the T-72 Turms, the “most balanced” kekw vehicle in this list. Which unless youre shooting directly from the side, or hit an optics shot under the turret, will eat 400mm pen APFSDS like they are paintballs. because gaijin modeled the ERA panels (which are actually dogshit irl, watch Ukraine war footage, those panels dont do anything) as if they were 500mm of titanium. If there weren’t russian bias, and the tech/vehicles of this game were modeled accurately, Russia would be the WORST top tier nation in the game. And it wouldnt be close, they would be borderline unplayable in comparison to things like Leo 2s, Abrams A2s, and Challengers. Not to mention how much better the tech is on Apaches the US currently employs compared to something like a ka-52. As someone who fought in the GWOT (rotational deployments 2015-2017, 1st Ranger Battalion) and has gotten to witness first hand the cutting edge tech the US, Germans, and brits employ, and keeps in contact with dudes who are currently fighting in Ukraine who repeatedly say how bad russian tech is comparatively. This game is terribly biased toward russia.
Have you considered that the turms used a different era than that used in the current war, thry are using much more modern projectiles and you're getting selection bias as you dont see the tanks that survive and are able to retreat or destroy the attacker that may have recorded them? I will say the turms is annoying and id frustrating to think about when you compare it to say the American kv-t but I'd say that has less to do with modeling and it just not being in the best spot balancing wise.
@@casematecardinalso you're claiming that they're using worse era than the game? I mean it's literally all old soviet stock, that makes no sense. Or are you claiming that the ukrainians are using more modern equipment? Because again they aren't it's literally all old soviet stock... You got some handheld AT equipment but that is also in the game... And yes there is selection bias in a sense, but the thing is a lot of these tanks get destroyed while most if not all have the crap era on while fighting equipment from the cold war... The selection isn't the bias it's the amount that is the basis people use as proof
>The Su-25k can eat SPAA missiles 3-4 times All planes in WT are unrealistically survivable and Su-25 is a very well armored jet IRL >watch Ukraine war footage, those panels dont do anything What a great analysis. And Leo2A6 gets disabled by artillery. Does its armor not do anything?
It's funny how you somehow forgot to mention how all other nations have pretty good cas at top tier, especially when it comes to jets compared to Russia, now it's pretty clear when that "little" fact is mentioned why they should have the best AA. Imagine nerfed tunguska having to fight against all the f16s, i guess then everything would be fine and dandy right... 🤡
Literally every other nation has to do that. Only Russia has an absurd SPAA to counter that. Russian mains are a different breed, they’ll do anything to justify the 70% win rate.
Which is why you dont add a 3 fucking dacade newer system than something like adats. US actually could get the MMEV which is better than Pantsir with its IRIS-T missiles.
Doesn’t the MMEV only have Adats missiles and the possibility for Spike ER missiles and Slamramm would be better it’s ground launched aim-120s and aim-9xs launched from a Humvee
Stryker SHORAD. Chapparal, maybe the Rapier, but after that, it’s gg, gaijin NEEDS to add the pac-1 after that I think, balance is dead already at top tier, but it’ll be worse with no real aa for America
@@LewisB3217 It was way worse before. It was PvP simulator maps, with arcade-realism-mix where you had arcade flight model, but had to return to base for reloads. It was already pain and suffering, especialy with the starter choppers. Imagen flying for 15 minutes to scratch 10% of a Base, then fly 15 minutes back to reload. And if that wasn´t bad enough, gaijin added the Ka-50, with broken Vikhr Missels. It was the only combat chopper for years and even longer the only chopper with proper AA Missels. For years it was only Ka-50 Teams against Ka-50 Teams and everyone else was just a juice target. It was Russian Bias/Premium Bias in its purest form. Believe me when i say, the more obscure the gamemode is, the more gaijin exploites it. They show there disgusting greed and bias alot more. Cause they know, most of the playerbase won´t spot it.
My top tier simulator gameplay since Panthsir S1 added to the game: -Spawning first with AH MK 1: Patnhsir shoots me down. -Spawning with Challenger MBT KA52/MI28NM shoots me down. -"fun :,)"
@@M0LOCK Yes. And the best part of it, my team never has any anti-air. Sometimes someone spawns with a FlakRakRad or with an ADATS but usually they get instant killed by helicopters. And since the Hellifre rocket for the Apache got nerfed now it's nearly unusable, it's very inconsistent while the Pantsir has no problem shooting you down from twice your range. Balance...
The biggest issue is that it’s literally the best SPAA system currently in service or development (as far as the public knows). Other nations does have equal or better AA systems like NASAMS, but the issue is that they are not mobile self-contained systems like Pantsir, meaning that other nations will never get something equivalent to it unless Gaijin changes their rules about vehicles and makes fake Top-Tier AA systems, which at the moment appears unlikely. The closest system would be the Israeli SPYDER which carry Python 5 IR missiles and Derby Fox 3 missiles that could match or exceed the range of 95ya6 missiles. However it doesn’t have a radar (Wikipedia and ChatGPT claims that it can carry one but no image I could find confirms that). The only other potential solution to this problem is to give the US the Pantsir based on the excuse that they acquired a captured on back in 2017, and to give German SAMs something IRIS-T, but that still doesn’t solve the issue that everyone else doesn’t have an equal.
Ever since they added the Pantsir and the missile path update, my roland and Ito90m for the french tech tree have been useless to deal with fast targets. Roland 3 are no longer manouvreable I can't curb them to hit jets. Some even out run them. And the ito may have range and speed but if you change the direction just a bit too much, the missile loses track. Meaning, i can no longer support my team by dealing with ennemy air targets. While the ennemies have the pleasure of ruining ground rb with guided/tv bombs and rockets. And don't fear an air response cause their pantsir kill it 10 sec after it spawned!
@@tangohotel2599Now Im just more upset that it even functions properly. Wheres the gun jamming? Missiles not firing or not locking because the radar isnt maintained? Why does it not break down as a result of essential parts being scrapped? Gaijin really needs to be more accuarate in their modeling of russian equipment man...
@@blackop3765 You could pretty much say that to every tank. Everything is prone to breaking and some equipment in game have many notorious issues irl. That'd be unfun for everyone to have to experience the faults of their tanks without their control. Its a game after all and if it was realistic; barrels having hit boxes to objects, tanks experience all their problems irl and many other issues they have it would be a terrible time for gameplay.
@@tangohotel2599 you're thinkin of Kortik/Kashtan, Pantsir is also installed on warships but as a back-modification of the Pantsir turret into a naval mounting. Pantsir is an evolution of Tunguska, and Kortik/Kashtan was a combined CIWS/missile system that used the Tunguska's missiles. It's a defensive short range ground SAM that was versatile enough to be bolted onto a lot of things.
Soviet cas has max range of smar munitions 13 km and USA has 23 km ( agm-65 b which is a tv guided bomb and doesn't need the players constant lock like laser guided )
Meanwhile Hstv-l is casually without its: Xm885 Delta 3 and delta 6, HE-p, auto tracker, 0.8s reload and armor applique of ceramic and kevlar composite instead of the current rha.
I think the problem is there is a very limited selection of western medium-range air defense. you essentially have the stinger or the patriot and nothing in between.
its pretty ridiculous, russia gets the best spaa and it had the strongest cas ingame before f16 was added (still good though) so basically if you verse russia theres zero reason to spawn a plane or heli in unless you want to get killed, russia also has the best helicopters being the ka52 and mi28nm which have 8km range missiles, in the 10km range but still its hard to even get to them in time before they just get out of range PLUS the pantsir missiles are smokeless so they're basically invisible even to thermals and long with arguably the best tanks in game
The Swedish ASRAD can't even shoot at its 9km range because if you have to move your mouse more than 1 degree the missile just completely loses all sense of direction and flies in a random direction before "trying" to correct itself by overleading massively or sometimes not doing anything at all. Even DRONES can dodge the missile since it goes so haywire lol. You can either fire the missile with or without a radar lock, but if you ARE radar locked and LOSE the lock, the missile will cease all control even if you reacquire lock. If you AREN'T radar locked, the missile will respond the exact same way as if you were locked, but you don't have the problem of losing lock and the missile losing itself, but you don't get the auto turret rotation so your call there. It also can't aim up more than I think 35ish degrees? Every Russian AA EXCEPT for the very first 2 in the tree can aim up more than 80 degrees, so that's fun. I honestly ditched the ASRAD for the VEAK until I unlock the ItO, it's been very not fun to play.
Even worse is that they already had a fully modelled TOR for China, they could just slap that one into Soviet/Russian tech tree without any effort and they wouldn't have broken anything.
So imo as a CAS player, its not the missile itself that is so stupidly overpowered but the fact that you dont know if you are being fired at OR EVEN BEING LOCKED. You dont know anything, you cant do anything against it. If its an experienced SPAA player, you might just be dead 5 seconds after spawning. You have no SA because it has TWS so you dont get a warning.. And dont forget about targets rendering at max 14km.. So you have to take an insanely high risk to kill such thing with TV weapons. With Maverick for example, you could maybe kill a Pantsir at 10km range max if you are fast, high and lucky enough. And the SPAA can easily shoot down missiles like PARS or Maverick. Thats why I think we need MAW on modern jets!
the fact that pantsir's radar is really trash as it cannot even lock on targets steady. once the radar lock moves away from the target, the missile goes off the targets instantly
@number7red619 Just try it with your friends, Jets with 900+ m/s will mess Pansir track radar a lot. It's not playable but so frustrated to kill rank 8 jets
The problem is that, yes, there are still better AA for other nations but most other nations don't really do AA the same way as Russia, with tons of self-contained medium range systems like this. Patriot couldn't be added cause you'd need a train of like 3 different modules.
Not entirely, but sort of realistic. NATO countries rely on air superiority, air targets are countered with fighters. NATO air defense is plane heavy, eastern air defense is balanced between both air and ground assets. It is the reason, why the AA vehicles of western origin, aren't that good in the game. The doctrines are different, therefore, the vehicles and their capabilities are different.
Maybe its the oh so small difference between ADATS being from 1980 and pantsir being from 2010, oh such small difference. Only 3 fucking decades. Nato has systems equivelant if not better than Pantsir like MMEV that uses IRIS-T missiles.
The doctrines doesn't matter if you want to shoot down enemy planes. Western missiles were good, but all the "western" systems in the game are from 70's or 80's and Pantsir S1 was introduced in 2005 and put into service in 2012 after further upgrades, it also has pseudo AESA radar, which is multiple generations ahead of most radars in the game.
@@subjectc7505 doctrine matters in creating a strategy of use or planning, not in creating specific anti air system. I mean if the system was created it means the doctrine was assuming its existence but technical capabilities are separate from doctrine
@@jakubw.2779 Irl the Russian Air Force doctrine primarily focuses on securing their airspace, which is why they lack air superiority in Ukraine because they have little SEAD capabilities and lack of pilot training. The Flankers was built for air superiority, while having the coverage of SAMs. The Panstir was created to protect key infrastructure and provide short range defense, in combat you'll be attacking alot of military infrastructure. Pretty sure, all vehicles are created according to doctrine, not just created because someone said build this.
The German Roland rockets (and vehicle) have been compleatly nerved into beeing maybe good enough for 8.0 in my eyes. These rockets move like thrown rocks.
did you drink blue pill or something, Sergeant York is one of the worst AAs in game. Try surviving hit or kill a tank with it, its slow as hell, it does not have missiles and its HUGE.
The m247 is alright but it’s just worse that what basically every other nation gets at that battle rating, Israel, Russia, France, China and Japan all get missile aa at 9.0/9.3 and many of those get guns and missiles. At that battle rating few planes get flares and those that do still die because the missiles have anti countermeasures systems built in. All the m247 has is stealth proximity rounds which while good isn’t anywhere as effective as all those other aa. Plus Sweden gets a very similar aa with proxy rounds at 8.7
Mean while you wont know when other nations dont show a missile on the way or RwR ignores lock on like your crush ignores you. Also it cant look right up so fire and forget weapons can just spam spawncamping
I forgot to add in some maps you can't fly over 20km away from the combat zone without getting telported around back into the zone. I'm tired Boss.
3% off Gaijin Store store.gaijin.net/catalog.php?category=WarThunder&partner=IronArmenian&partner_val=u5g16ff2 and you get my decal too
Its missiles have such a big proxy fuse it cant actually kill scout drones with its missiles
The 20km range is kind of a gimmick most of the time people are only about 10 km out, but even then I only target specific aircraft that I know will be annoying to the team, like helicopters, or the F-16, F-14, Tornados, anything with GBUs, but if I see a prop I will let him reign terror.
And also the primary reason the Pantsir is the only one like that is other countries don't really make a whole lot of vehicle based spaa platforms anymore they're usually ground based turrets and stuff like the patriot missile system, but I'd love to see more anti air being added (especially for France, Italy and Japan).
Telling about "other nations Just dont built anythink like this" is cringe. Then dont add this May be? Why thor with 12 km range was not good for ussr? Also why dont give apaches their longbow then? Not usa problem that ussr/russia didnt make arh atgm smh
I think a good way to balance the Pantsir out would be to introduce ARMs. I'd imagine adding the AGM-88 and a F-4G would be a good start as well as adding them and the ALARM to the Tornado. Make them afraid to keep their radar on lest they eat a HARM or an ALARM.
Crotale according to french: 16km range.
Crotale according to chinese: 15km range.
Crotale according to Gaijin: 10km is best I can do, take it or leave it.
France and PRC are the only two producers of the system, where else have Gaijin gotten their "secret documents"?
Crotale according to it's introduction not 2007 upgrades for range, also 12 not 10
the VT-1's range is fine, if they added the later missiles it would be better
@@aenodarr7936
1)according to PRC range of their Crotale is 15km, since 1980's and they had no involvement in one of the french upgrades;
2)did you just mix up VT-1 and VT-3?
3)for Pantsir it's 2008.
Ingame it has the VT-1, which has only 12km range. the 16km is the VT-3...
What's hilarious is how the Ukraine war has also shown how modern Russian claimed capabilities of military equipment is very suspect. Yet Gaijin never fails to implement their equipment according to the specs. While they admittedly likely get access to that info easier and is more readily available than that of say the Challenger II and Abrams, it's amazing to me how they never add any negative modifiers to their country's tanks or take the specs with a grain of salt. German late war tanks had the armor debuff due to material shortages late in the war in the game, yet they never did that for the T-34 which is known to have been horrendously built in great numbers early on and even well into late war out of need.
There are aspects of the bias which I think are 100% true. They seem to favor mechanics for their vehicles that help Russian and Soviet vehicles the most. The way that APHE performs in game, while Russian vehicles used it for so long is one example. APHE doesn't blow up like a hand grenade, it creates a wider cone of dispersion in most scenarios and often the fuse for the HE filler is destroyed as it tries to penetrate the tank, thus nullifying it. And their ridiculous modeling of angled performance, while I get how it could be hard to make it more realistic, is again a huge advantage to Russian vehicles since they all have great angled performance. But in reality at high angles, even with that great soft head performance, the shell would scoop the armor and not make it into the tank. But in WT the shell always goes in, totally against the laws of physics and reality, regardless of the angle just so long as it meets some arbitrary threshold.
I have heard the T-34 used to have random riccochet modifiers but I know that's been added to all sloped armor or above certain angles or however it functions. So I don't think the game intentionally makes the T-34 stronger than it was. But the T-34 also benefits immensely from volumetric and how it's implemented. The driver hatch and the T-34/76 1942 and 1943 turrets have the most ridiculous gun mantlet which just doesn't care if it's penetrated at times. Like they forget that the gun is inside that mantlet. The fact that engines and components take no longer to repair even when they're shot 10 times, which is why assholes use the IS-1 and IS-2 in reverse. Those are things I don't think Gaijin intentionally does, they're just issues which can benefit other nations as well and do.
But I will 100% say if they ever added the T-14 Armata, it'd be un-killable from the front by anything but a hydrogen bomb because they'd believe every thing the Russians sent them in terms of specs. Never mind that it's claimed capabilities are extremely dubious, it'd be the best tank ever. Maybe one day they can build more than 2 a year and have them properly function.
the thing makes me losing my mind is the fact that the Pantsir is the only AA that can track multiple targets when other older ingame radars can track more targets aswell, but it is not modeled in the game for them, makig evary change of target extremely painful!
Thor just doesn't exist? Also which nato spaa's can target multiple planes?
@@aenodarr7936not an SPAA but F-14's radar
@@zohaibtariq7351 ..."the only AA that can track multiple targets when other older ingame radars can track more targets aswell" and not to ruin on your parade but if f-14 get the multi target tracking it will break the arb
@@aenodarr7936F-14 do have TWS mod on one day, lucky we only need to deal with Aim54…
@@aenodarr7936 same as pantsir
You proved mine and the OP's point
Just a reminder that they nerfed the other AA when the Pantsir was added
Very good point that I didn't even bring up
just a reminder that nerf also came to the pantsir
@@11Titsits not like that nerf ruined the pantsir
When was it added? I haven't played WT in years.
Yes, every other AA takes 3 missiles to shoot down an attack drone made of spit and tinfoil (no cap) while the pansir one-taps
the problem is not that the Pantsir is good, it's that it's the only nation that get something as good as it is
The TOR is really good but once a plane gets within the 2km dead zone. It's useless 😂
The problem is that in real life, Pantsir is, practically speaking, the only SPAA of that level and that kind, nothing even comes close to it.
Crotale system is in game already and it's not as good (just like irl), USA's newest MML and Stryker Shorad programs were closed (and only MML would be semi comparable), british AA systems are ehhh and etc. Adding Patriot, MAMBA, IRIS-T and many other AA systems that are better than Pantsir in accuracy and range is probably impossible as those are not really designed to move around the battlefield at all. Even if you add those, it wouldn't solve the problem, but will only allow devs to add BUKs, C-300/400 and etc. and then everyone will cry about those. Strengh of nations playing against Russia lies in helicopters and planes with f&f missiles anyway, so you can kinda kill pantsir if you use terrain good, while it's SA missiles are still on the way.
so one nations gets an infinitely better vehicle than the others (while also having the best ground attackers you can buy with GE or Money), hmmm if there would be a phrase for that spacific situation...
@@mortuen go argue with the west. Their fault for not investing in self contained sams
@@lovepeace9727 why add it at all in the game if nothing can rival it ?
See this is kinda why you want some goofball to bring a Sturm tiger out
Because that fucker can range the enemy spawn in based off the cap point distance and just
Overpressure anything over there
great comment, made me laugh
I feel like a big slow rocket would actually just get locked and shot doen
Now i need to try this
You get a buddy to recon drone him and you could be deadly accurate
Don’t forget that the “reason” pansir was added was that the tunguska was “not good enough” as a top tier aa even though it was already one of the best aa systems in game before them
I remember reading that post and being absolutely confused on how the Tunguska is underperforming
What's even more wild is they said they'd add the TOR to the soviets in a future patch, but now there is literally no reason to add the TOR
@@thatregularguythey did nerf the Tunguska to shit, the missile rework really did affect the Tunguska a lot. All they had to do was not do the missile rework
@@DigitalShaolin Sounds like an artificial nerf to justify brining in the Pantsir
@@YorkingtonMore like a justified addition since western CAS is not suffering by any stretch of the imagination...
As a Japan main, top tier is literally impossible to play right now. I always get put with the US, and face not only Russia, but also China, meaning no air. Pantsirs, TY-90s, and more. Then the enemy team gets full air superiority, and I die a horrible death. I wish Japan just had something on the ground to counter that. My condolences to anyone not playing Russia. That 90% win rate they have is quite horrific. I wonder if new players know that the endgame they are grinding for is just die to Russia.
I main top tier US GRB. My win rate for all GRB I did during July 2023 was 32%(keeps going down). I have 65% team placement every battle and around 1.1 KD with 1100 score average.
Don’t forget that even if you do get Russia on your team you’re still facing Russia on the enemy side
Imagine how much more fun the game would be if they just added a mode without aircraft.
Cry harder, you CAS players deserve worse
Don't worry! I've come from the future and I am here to tell you Japan finally got a top tier SPAA. Now you get the tan-SAM, with bigger stingers on a bigger truck!
"All problems solved Japan top tier fine now" -Gaijin probably-
Lets not forget when the Pantsir came out, almost every other top tier spaa was fucking nerfed, so the beam riding and reaction time was made more "realistic" TWICE.
oooohh.. it's fkn awful now... Hiting something with Roland 3 missiles was already pretty challenging because they were quite slow, but now it's fkn almost impossibile, slight course alteration and the missile goes fkn fubar.
@@jakubw.2779 First spawning the roland when playing france was one of my joys, blasting those pos soviet heli's was so...cathartic. Now its makes me hate playing my fave nations more.
the missile changes were applied to everything including every single other russian missile
@@The_RussianBias the missile changes wouldn't be as bad if not for couple of things. First is that many aircraft weapons system outranges AA, second they changed everything and then added Pantsir S1. Cas is bad. It really is. I lost count on how many times i've got spawnkilled by the same F14 in one match from god knows how far and i couldn't even lock on to it with aa.
It's like they're drunk now @@jakubw.2779
It should be restricted to rooftops like the on top of the Russian MOD
That 20km missile range will make sure nothing will change, other than Pantsirs on roofs becoming easy pickings.
Gaijin should just replace the pantsir with the tor (which they said they would give to the ussr tech tree eventually) and refund pantsir players the golden eagles they've used for the vehicle (camos, talismans... you know the deal)
@@AlreadyTakenTag Exactly, this is the type of shit that gets me with them. They'll happily remove vehicles for balance, then stamp their feet when a Russian vehicle is broken as fuck and needs pulled or it's stats changed for balancing. They take such a bullshit half-realistic half-whatever approach to the game. They'll put the EBR 1951 at 5.3 despite it being grossly high in BR compared to most anything else with it's capabilities. They'll remove the Maus and SAV.120 or whatever that cancer Swedish auto-120mm gun tank was called. But the Pantsir having 8km more range? Nah, it's fine. We'll just add in the same capability for the other nations in like 6 months or a couple years if it's a minor nation.
@@adamg7984as an Israeli main slowly working through the tree, what’s long range AA? All that tree has is a M3 half track with a couple 20mm, 2 M163s, and a Soviet thing (and then the ZSU-57-2 which is useless against anything but close stationary helis)
@@hoosierfarmkideh I beg to differ the twin 57 have great ballistics and can engage planes better than contemporary big cannon AA's like every other 40mm AA without Proxy Fused Shells
@@princessapplestrach6327 It’s trash as an AA due to no guidance or proxy so can’t imagine the 40mm ones. I’ve had more success with the TCM-20 or M16 MGMC that it (I have hit one plane and 2 hovering helicopters with it total)
It’s a baby 2S38 as a TD though lol I love it for that, especially in PVE.
Spawned in a heli and just started to get off the ground, already had MAWS screaming at me and died under 20 seconds on Sinai, dude was parked at the edge of the map where he can see spawns directly and there's no cover out there. That was my first experience with this thing lmao
Good, cry
Good, all heli players need to suffer
@@xeon39688 how dare someone have the gall to try to play the game in a way they want,
>get killed by soviet CAS from space
>spawn in SPAA
>out of range, missiles too bad to go up vertically for 14 km
>gets killed by said satelite
>spawn in jet
>get shot down by pantshit
>leave game
that pantsir just enchances the strength of the soviet cas which is the worst factor of it all.
Russia has arguably the best top tier/end of the line vehicles~
Top tier MBT: BVM (may be beaten by other nations now)
Top tier light light vehicles: 2s38, BMP-2m, Khrizantema (Khrizantema's ATGMs are basically the best in the game for ground vehicles)
Top tier AA: Pantsir
Top tier fighter: Mig-29
Top tier CAS aircraft: -MIG-27K-
Top tier drone: Has a second missile that does 10km rather than 8
Top tier Helicopter: Ka-50/52, Mi-28nm
Top tier bluewater: Kronshtadt
Top tier coastal: SKR-1/7
No other nation really has an equivalent to those vehicles or anything as powerful, especially when it comes to helis and AA.
And for anyone curious, the music in Iron's video is the "Night Train To Nebelsbad"
BVM's only real weakness is fighting on hilly terrain, where NATO tanks with their superior gun depression angles and turret armour will beat it.
Your also forgot the best VTOL jet in the game, Yak-141.
Pre top tier I would argue they arent all that powerful, other nations can compete at like 10.0 range but at top tier - nope.
arent the american jets better than the mig 29?
the mig 27k is far from being close to the best cas aircraft wtf are you on about
I'd argue that the F-16 is the better CAS aircraft, 6 AGM's and much better flight performance than the Mig27.
But yeah everything else is on point. and don't forget that the BMP-2M basically has the same missiles as the Khrisantema, only difference is that the khris' missiles have 0.5km more range.
@@bagofsunshine3916 a lot of aircraft are much better at cas than the mig 27 like the mirage 2000 tornado tomcat and so on, also the bmp2m has kornets not khrizentama missiles
AP shells also don't spall when they pen 6mm of armor or less and guess what tanks have less than 6mm of armor on the inside. Well of course it's the Russian T-80 tanks. It might be a coincidence but it seems a bit suspicious.
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡 russian bias doesnt exist
@Kashgari saint Petersburg office be like
Also Hungarian one got uhhh... 5? People sooo...
@Kashgari yea and wargaming is *totally* based in Cyprus
Another problem about this monstrosity AAA is that it makes Russian cas Unstoppable like you can't engage mig-27's in your jet anymore because this thing can just see you, you have to play peek-a-boo with these stupid trucks and have to engage them so far you can't even render them in.
(Edit: another fun fact actually a few America and a lot of other countries have nothing that could be added to actually compared to this monstrosity unless it's a entire like Carriage cart of vehicles also they could have literally just given Russia the tor but no they went out of their way to add this thing
There is the hvsd/adams. Could be added to America and Israel. Then they could buff that French missile, and maybe bs something for Japan. And give Italy the ability to have more rounds on its otomatic, move it down in br, add the centuaro version. Fix the tracking and maybe find a prototype aspede spaa or something to add aswell.
@@casematecardinal that does sound like a good idea even though I don't really know about those vehicles I don't even play that much ground RB but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how disgusting this vehicle is
@@snek1557 thats for sure. The vehicles I mentioned are mostly prototypes except for the French one thats already in game. They just refuse to give it correct stats.
@@casematecardinal wow they refuse they to give a vehicle it's actual stats and proper abilities I've never heard that before
@@snek1557 its hard to believe I know but you're just going to have to believe the publicly available military documentation. Sadly gaijin doesn't have faith in it.
They should've stopped around systems with less than 15km if not 10km of range.
Though i wonder now, how much is it's accuracy at above 10km, cause if it somehow still has extreme accuracy even after like 15km of range after maneuvers and still also hit against a multitude of countermeasures, it gets quite suspicious.
It’s also a double edged sword iron, because some content creator brought this up before but CAS can still marginally function even with the 10km SAMS thanks to guided munitions, but the Pantsir shuts the airspace down entirely meaning Russian aircraft are free to manoeuvre care free. It’s a buff to Russian CAS as well, because the Mig 27 wasn’t bad enough. What’s even uglier is the dynamic between CAS and SHORAD because there’s a really fine and hard line between CAS and SHORAD being that SHORAD either out ranges CAS guided munitions and cas becomes impossibly hard to play or CAS out ranges SHORAD and AAA becomes prey. If they added something like the AGM-45 Shrike we would have a cool dynamic where by there’s a fight and struggle between the two as the AAA turns their radar on and off while the attacker pursues closer.
so the plane that has become the worst cas out of the major nations got a buff
@@The_RussianBias i cant take this comment seriously, you have TV and laser guided bombs and missiles that make you par competitive with other nations on top of a good airframe, its probably not the best yes but it is certainly by far not the worst, even if it was the worst its effectiveness cannot be understated
@@redundantstuff100 the mig27 can't dogfight and it's inferior to every other major nations top tier cas. Hell ever France has a better cas plane. Also the tv bombs only start tracking at less than 4km and if you want to use laser or tv bombs you have a max of 4 and when you do take all 4 you can't bring anything to defend yourself in the air
I would like to add that China has a lot of different options for AD systems yet to be added:
Yitian (TY-90 launcher), early 1990s vehicle
HQ-17 (which is effectively a better Tor M1 but mounted on a large wheeled 8x8 chassis with better radar), 2015
Yitian 2 (missiles are much larger, possibly medium range) was literally just unveiled
SWS2 LD35 (gun and missile complex on a large wheeeled 8x8) also literally just unveiled
And possibly one of the most cool looking AFVs:
Type 625E (gun and missile complex, also on the very same 8x8 chassis as the HQ-17), 2022
Yea China has a shed load of stuff that could have been added but Gajin where lazy and wanted to put TOR in China and Russia together but one of the Devs on the forum admitted it wasn't performing well enough to be added to the Russian tree which was why pantsir was added lol.
After PGZ-04A China could have: PGL-625, HQ-7, Yitian I & II, SWS 2, TianLong 12, FK-1000, 2000 & 3000, HQ-17/A, 625E, LY-70 & HQ-11.
Also TY-20s are incoming for a Yitian upgrade.
Fuck the panstir. Sure I shouldn’t have taken my A-10 in an 11.0 but I shouldn’t be getting shot down from my air spawn next to the airfield.
considering how real life radar works, if you're within 100m of the ground the radar should barely pick you up anyways. Theres too much interference from ground supported radars. Its the same reason passenger planes cannot be seen by ATC's when they are low enough and have to rely on visuals and radio. But the pantsir will literally get radar blips on a heli that is below it (in elevation, behind a hill)
Achtung Pantsir!
"If America gets a 20k sam" LOL
You're already getting locked on to upon spawning your CAS plane 💀💀
People say Russian/Soviet Bias doesn’t exist. But surprisingly, it does.
You can't even hit the deck, you have to spawn at the airfield and stay down to have a chance, i spawned in a G91 and dove, before i got to the ground i got taken out by a Pantsir, 20 seconds afte r spawning
And all the time i heard from RUclipsrs: "russian bias? Lmao, great joke!"
No one actually showed the problem before pantsir. Anti spall things in tanks, driver hatch, absurd armor of ISes and etc. But there is no russian bias, obj 906, pt-76-57 and 2c38 at right places with right characteristics. If only you guys, talked about it earlier pantsir wouldn't be a thing.
Also to that, it also has 50% more missiles than most of the other SAMs. You know, just in case it wasn't better enough.
I swear they'll make the f-22 less stealthy than the su-57
maybe su57 has a really better adventage in real, who knows)
@@Ruby-tf8fm russia is too poor to afford to fly a single one so no they are not
There is *one* downside to the Pantsir - it's an unarmoured truck with armoured glass, making it much more susceptible to fragmentation and overpressure. But then again the FlaRakRad has the same problem, and it doesn't even get the reinforced cab glass.
And there is a tracked version of the Pantsir ;)
Tdll that to me hitting the cabin with he from my ztz99 and only damagong the driver
As a china main meaning were paired with russia most of the time. The pantsir is also a big problem. It's killing every aircraft so far ahead that makes any tor player cry.
drop arty on them
@@Loafed_Beans sadly, you can't drop arty at your own spawn :/
one important thing: ground rb map size and aircraft spawn altitude and distance
Anyone who denies the ultra-obvious Russian bias that has been dug up in the game files with T34s and KV1s is part of the problem. They’re getting the same slider treatment tigers got way back when that nerfed their armor. Remember when tiger armor was like.. 10% weaker because historically the Germans had lower quality armor late in the war. Except the Russians get buffs not nerfs.
You can ignore these things if you want. But you then have to admit you are part of the problem.
Also there are no problems at top tier because we don’t play top tier. The T on Top is for TRASH. 2.3-7.3 is where the fun lives. 7.7 is where it dies. Just play the correct BRs. Easy.
Anyone who claims this game isnt purely a propaganda machine for Russia is flat out lying
Russian-speaking person here, I remember when they bought ads from the separatists (from donbas)
Edit: they have collab with "atomic heart", the game that was sponsored by gazprom and even had collab with "army of russia" cloth brend
It's not, honestly. It's how people play the game. If you're really good at AA, then the Panstir is OP.
Irl the Panstir is a pretty effective system for short range defense.
It’s the same as saying that COD is USA propaganda
@@innelator6941which isnt untrue, for some of them
@@innelator6941 wdym, it is
To be fair its hard to add player aa for other nations at top tier since they just dont have one
All the other countries use systems with command vehicle, radar, missile etc, for example the patriot is an example of this system
MMEV with IRIS-T missiles:
They should of not added this thing since the other nation don't have similar systems.
Then that's why you don't add the Pantsir at all. That's why you just leave that one in the garage of ideas. But Gaijin don't actually give a fuck about balance, they never have and never will. They just want whatever the fuck they want, and for some reason that often means bullshit advantages for Russian vehicles. Like straight up, it happens a lot and I don't even think it's intentional most of the time, if not all of the time. But they probably don't see it as a bad thing when they see Russian vehicles doing well in the game because they're Russian and, even if just subconsciously, would be more expecting that result. Frankly, there's 2 scenarios. They're accidentally giving many Russian vehicles advantages, many of which they never had in reality or if they have such capabilities is questionable, or they legitimately are a bunch of Z patriot douche bags who want Russia Stronk memes to be in War Thunder and going against reality. They're very selective about realism and balance, when it suits Russian vehicles especially. But when it doesn't, they're very hesitant to listen to people who know better.
Also Pantsir is the one of two top tier anti-air systems (if you include ADATS) that has no minimal engagement distance thanks to its guns, whereas all other top tier AAs are fucked if helicopter appears within 500m distance.
Using imaginary supiority to cope with real-life losing is totally justified.
-Gaijin probably
What do you mean? Western equipment is being destroyed all over Ukraine as well??
@@Sveta7 Pantsir is basically non existent in Ukraine now as it was so bad. Only Buk's and Tor's seem to be used by Russians now as they actually perform.
There is even a video of a Pantsir misfiring and almost blowing up soldiers 50 meters from it.
@@Sveta7 Also they seem to be performing very bad in Moscow as well. A drone hit the same skyscraper twice. There is just something wrong with them.
@@rokasbarasa1 If you say so haha, nice of you as well to like your own comments 🤣🤡
We need anti radiation missiles
This and the russian tanks at top teir that require you to aim at certain spots in order to kill where as they aim anywhere and your whole crew is killed. And those weak spots can be easily covered by bushes...
Oh wow! Russian tanks have a 1-hit kill spot! So hard to aim!
@@romanboi3115 >hits flat side of a T-80
>zero damage to ammo
>he turns his turret and kills you in one shot
xd
@@romanboi3115 difference is I have to aim they just have to look at me. Seconds count
@@romanboi3115You mean the one hit zone in which ammo goes black and doesnt detonate or APFSDS wont spall or just gets eaten by ERA even though its a perfect 90 degree impact
@@nuklear7074 Yet in real life, you hit the ammo carrousel in a Russian tank and it fucking explodes or catches fire catastrophically. Gaijin totally pulls some horse shit for Russian tanks, I just wish I knew if it was intentional or not. Because I'd like to believe it's just not and is a culmination of all their spaghetti code and shitty implementations of many mechanics in the game.
i had a russian bias moment yesterday
a it1 killed me by shooting the rock that was in front of me
i had 2 crew members left and i was about 20 meters away from the rock, but i still died because of 1 fragment
Yep that is realistic I do that with my type 75 which is jaapanese it’s not Russian bias it over pressure or a rock fragment gong through your crew which is completely realistic keep crying “Russian bias”😢
ITA and JAPN has 10-12G missiles at 9.0 and 9.7 (Type 93 & Mistral)
USSR got Strella at 9.0 with 20G missiles.
They don’t have any better missiles, OTO is alright but if enemy plane is aware you Might as well J out.
Ah YES tunguska got nerfed hard -> ads Phantsir
BMP-2M got nerfed by raising BR, adds APFSDS belt for no reason. (It over performace = buff it more.
Russian bias is real but not the way ppl think.
(Also ammo carousel 6mm anti spall/black hole armor)
The salty thing about pantsir is not the pantsir itself... they nerfed every missile in the game and then added the pantsir.
Meaning the pantsir is miles ahead of AA performance. The ITO can't hit a helicopter going horizontally 2km away.
Every missile is super slow now.
When it comes to Pantsir as the kind of vehicle it is, NATO currently doesn't have any equivalent when it comes to capability. It's generally because of differences in doctrine of NATO & Russia. That's why NATO never invested that heavily in making mobile air-defense systems, which the Soviets/Russians(China also maybe) did. But in terms of capability of the radars, there must be bias more or less
Yes and no, the problem is that the Nato counterparts are on a complete other level. For example there would be the Iris-T SLS or SLM which has a range of 25-40km, a ceiling of 20km and the main counterargument is that its made in Germany so that the biggest no no for GJ and the community to add it.
so why add it? Just... don't add it...
@@venusflytrap2622Yeah believe its called Eldenhet 98,its been a long time on forums passed to developers but gaijin just said nah!! Gaijin could add only the SLS for start
@@M0LOCK the German Eldenhet 98 can't be compared with pantsir, but rather it's like an equivalent of the Russian S-350 medium range SAM system. If they decided to add that, then it will justify them to add the same kind of missile systems to Russian tech tree as well
@@jakubw.2779 they would've added it eventually, but yeah... maybe they could've added it later on
Just give us the AGM-88 HARM💁🏻♂️
Hey remember that one time spookston found in the files that Russian top tier tanks don’t create any spall when penetrated and said “it happens to Chinese copycat tanks so it’s not Russian Bias”
But yes, jokes aside , I quit regularly playing the game about the time the IT-1 or whatever that ATGM T-55 was released, and I couldn't care at that point really. Back then it was that, it was ZSU-57. their indestructible heavies...
You mean the times when you had to have skill to play against other tanks?
@@aenodarr7936 are you really saying that back in the day it took skill to use zsu-57-2? if thats so please keep smoking what you have so the dream never ends
@@jussi8111 I was talking about heavies, but if you show weakspots to a 157ish pen of a zsu-57 it's honestly your fault, also brownings can kill it
@@aenodarr7936 you do know that back then there werent volumeric armor and tanks had more easily pennable weak spots
@@jussi8111 it was German bias back then. that's what made the 57 great, not lack of volumetric; it was a hard counter to leopard 1 spam at the ~7.0-8.0 bracket. don't assume they don't know what it was like if you don't either.
always thought russian bias was a meme, but when I think about it, Impenetrable T-34 hatches, sloped armor effectiveness increasing exponentially at 60 degrees (surprise only russian vehicles have those angles) IS-2 having ammo it never had in real life to make it just able to penetrate the frontal turret cheeks of the King Tiger, Mig-29 given a 90s missile outperforming all other missiles in the game, Mig-23MLD dominating the meta for years.
Things are adding up by now.
They should've added the TOR-M2 instead of the Pansir S1. Though I am a Pansir Player I ABSOLOUTELY believe they shouldnt have added it and instead it shouldve been the TOR-M2.
Needs to be an option for aircraft to spawn further away or higher up
Honestly can we just get a ground and maybe heli only gamemode, that would be nice
We had heli pvp and it was horrible, helis belong to Ground RB.
@@eliasl332 heli pvp was much much better then heli pve. even with the economy changes you still dont make shit from it.
@@11Tits I agree, heli PvE is worse but I can’t think of a way to make PvP to not be broken.
@@eliasl332 id say let it be. Pvp may have been shit but atleast you could actually make something from it. Mean like i grinded nearly the whole german heli tree in pvp. It was a blast. Tho heli pvp in the russia and chinese tree is just ass. Its literally fly to point A and kill 30 vehicles for 2k rp then go to point B to kill 20 vehicles for 1k rp. Super dead and forgotten
According to 6 CAS mains that appear in every single steam discussion about ground only gamemode, ground players are not the target playerbase and its instead plane players.
I feel like the the Russian government makes Gaijin add the bias
It wouldnt be an issue if they gaave us arm missiles but gayjin out right said they where to difficult to implment also there gave russia a literally airbase defense system thats literaly what the pantsir was built to do aslo they jeed to give all planes that have missile warning systems there missile warning systems
the pantsir will be balenced in like a year or 2 at 15.7 when it only fights planes with SEAD capabilities
Sead wouldn't work in wt everyone will just only cut radar on to shoot or only use IRST.
They could make it realistic by making the missiles totally inert since actual Russian crews would have probably sold the explosives and propellant.
Well... if Russia get the latest SAM Trucks in the arsenal in War Thunder... They should give UK their latest SAM trucks... Land Ceptor (Sky Sabre)... which now has all in one trucks alongside the modular trucks... They can take their pick of which version being the weakest is 25KM and the strongest is 100KM.
Sky sabre depends on a command vehicle and a seperate track vehicle to go such distances. So no they cant add it. However, there is a simple fix. Have such command vehicles and radars placed at the back of the map and allow the player in the launcher control those systems from their location. Which would allow for a lot of coverage.
@@11Tits You only need the 3 truck system for the 60KM or 100KM coverage. The launch trucks have a 25KM radar built in. They also have portable tracking and launch controls on that truck. The 3 truck system consists of the missile launch and 25KM radar truck, Control and operations truck and the 100KM+ Radar truck.
So if they were to add the 60KM or 100KM range, they would have to implement a system like you have mentioned... However if they want to release a comparable system to the Pantsir Truck... they can by simple adding the launch truck... but of course that means introducing a system that is faster and longer range than the Russian one... which already means unlikely but throw in the fact it means maps having to be much larger as the Russian Pantsir has already revealed.
Also the Eldenhet 98 my guys its a TLAR and theres no excuse why it isnt on game yet since its been a long time since it was passed to developers...
best part is, like all russian vehicules in this game, the IRL counterparts are an embarrassement to all modern militairy hardware, Pantsir even more so. we literally saw how terribly it did in this war
Sadly it’s illegal for gaijin to criticize or show the Russian military in a bad light (against the law in Russia)
Um idk if you follow only the propaganda but western equipment is getting destroyed all over Ukraine, so just out of curiosity how is that not embarrassing??
"wow i didn't care about obvious bias gaijin has toward russia and after all these years, it just got worse!" who oculd've seen it, oh I wonder why this happens, it's almost like when you actively ignore a bully hitting you in the face until you have no energy to fight back cause it's too late to realize maybe you should have faced the reality of the situation
Maybe one day they could add radar jammers so that you could have a module on your plane that would do that but sacrificing like half of your ordanance for it to balance it out? Not sure what planes historically had radar jamming technology and if that even applies to the period of jets that we have in game now.
Most aircraft had internal jammers, besides stuff like flankers/early migs and the F16, the F16 would just sacrifice the center pylon which isnt that important. For the russians its a bit more punishing because they need two pods but they are only on the wingtips so just minusing some heat seekers
Imo the real solution is adding harms, which makes AA players have to be smart with the radar and how long they have it up
@@ultrawing5637mirage 2000 also had some jammer, the D and 5F variant having them whatever the payload
I don’t think they will, at least not soon, it’d buff NATO too hard
@@ultrawing5637 when it comes to what payload it replaced I'd say it's worth being a bit unrealistic for balance and still limit the amount one could take but we'd obviously still need to test and see how it would work. But if they do end up adding HARMs I'd be totally down too
@@ultrawing5637 Pantsir players realizing the 15 HARM's about to turn them into a white woman in a interracial gangbang.
My Stormer can't hit any plane and can only sometimes hit helicopters. And even when they do hit a heli, sometimes a heli like the Gay Sharks (Ka-50 and Ka-52) will just shrug them off with no problem while I just helplessly as their missiles fly towards me. When it comes to planes I just literally watch as my missile just PHASE THROUGH THEM SOMEHOW LIKE WHAT.
They nerfed the Tunguska to make it look like we need the Pantsir..
Also, with update fire&ice they said Russia will get the Tor soon (devstream of the update where China got the Tor) so why did they not get that and instead the Pantsir...
Tor at least has some downsides
SEAD is becoming more and more needed every update.
sure but that would only be reasonable once we got SAM sites like the SA2 or SA6, the first anti radiation missiles had like 50km range
Because the best way to balance top tier ground RB is to throw missles from 50 km away on a radar ground signature and then bomb the shit out of tanks
tfw when your top notch SPAA cant stop 100 USD drone from Ukraine
these are not the droids youre looking for...
Pantsir is also the only spaa that can radar guide missiles with no warning on the rwr (with tws)
Solution to most WT problems = Don't play above 6.3
I agree, players with lower skill should stay down there so that there is less crying about nonsense like this at the top.
Memes, just like folks lore have some truth in them. And the Bussian Rias meme have it too.
I remember playing top tier sim, and I thought to myself, maybe I will try to do something with A-10. I spawned and my RWR started screaming at me but I started flying and when I was like 100m off the runway, friendly AV-8 died to pantsir, and minute later, after trying to do anything I died too. Like there was no chance for any of us to literally do ANYTHING, I'm not talking about doing CAS, not russian team coulding even get on the sky.
And about russian bias, don't forget about infamous vikhr missile that used to have 14km of range and direct fire mode, when hellfire had 8km and wanky top attack and they nerfed it to have 10km.
worse thing is they nerf the ito and flackrad missiles but dont touch the pantisr
We need pantsir on the tracked/armored chassis
Ive had a bell end tell me the Pantsir was way worse than a FlaRakRad because it had a cannon for close combat and that could confuse people....
Gaijin may have left Russia, but Russian greed and corruption will still linger on inside them.
(Gaijin was founded in Russia in 2002)
With how russian missiles have been doing in Ukraine this thing should have a chance for the missile to just turn around and hit itself lmao
don't forget they nerfed the flakrad's (and Ito's) missile by giving the vt1 a 1 second guidance delay, making it useless at any range below 1 km
Every AA's missile is useless at that low of a range, when it comes to fast moving jets.
The famous sekrut docoonments really make this games like tanki online.
Good, france C.A.S. ♫
Elaboration:
In War Thunder you can currently kill a tank or get a couple of assist to spawn in a plane.
Planes usually are able to kill at least 2 tanks per life if the pilot isn't an idiot because EVEN IF people have AA, EVEN MORE at Br-s below 7, planes are difficult to kill.
There are HELICOPTERS that can be spawned as soon as the round begins!
Bombers can drop a payload that can flatten half the map without any notice and with no problem at all.
Most planes in higher Br move faster than light and have LITERAL cannons that can down your tank in one hit.
So, yeah. france C.A.S. ♫
It needs to be COMPLETELY reworked in tank Br to make it ACTUALLY balanced because, up to now, there is NO WAY that a good plane player can get taken down by tanks at least as fairly as tanks can take down each other.
You didnt really think there was russian bias? Have you not played 9.7-10.7 lately? Literally every single russian Premium at that br is broken beyond comprehension. The Su-25k can eat SPAA missiles 3-4 times and not even be disabled, the S-25O rockets dont even need to be near a tank to kill it. The Ka-50 not only can be “destroyed” and still stay airborne for minutes and kill tanks, but the Vikhr missiles can literally be used to counter SPAA. Then you have the 2S38 which… well enough fucking said. And the T-72 Turms, the “most balanced” kekw vehicle in this list. Which unless youre shooting directly from the side, or hit an optics shot under the turret, will eat 400mm pen APFSDS like they are paintballs. because gaijin modeled the ERA panels (which are actually dogshit irl, watch Ukraine war footage, those panels dont do anything) as if they were 500mm of titanium.
If there weren’t russian bias, and the tech/vehicles of this game were modeled accurately, Russia would be the WORST top tier nation in the game. And it wouldnt be close, they would be borderline unplayable in comparison to things like Leo 2s, Abrams A2s, and Challengers. Not to mention how much better the tech is on Apaches the US currently employs compared to something like a ka-52.
As someone who fought in the GWOT (rotational deployments 2015-2017, 1st Ranger Battalion) and has gotten to witness first hand the cutting edge tech the US, Germans, and brits employ, and keeps in contact with dudes who are currently fighting in Ukraine who repeatedly say how bad russian tech is comparatively. This game is terribly biased toward russia.
I'm sure that Ukraine has the most advanced weapon of Russia, so you can be trusted (no, you can't)
Dam, almost like its made by russians...
Have you considered that the turms used a different era than that used in the current war, thry are using much more modern projectiles and you're getting selection bias as you dont see the tanks that survive and are able to retreat or destroy the attacker that may have recorded them? I will say the turms is annoying and id frustrating to think about when you compare it to say the American kv-t but I'd say that has less to do with modeling and it just not being in the best spot balancing wise.
@@casematecardinalso you're claiming that they're using worse era than the game? I mean it's literally all old soviet stock, that makes no sense.
Or are you claiming that the ukrainians are using more modern equipment? Because again they aren't it's literally all old soviet stock... You got some handheld AT equipment but that is also in the game...
And yes there is selection bias in a sense, but the thing is a lot of these tanks get destroyed while most if not all have the crap era on while fighting equipment from the cold war...
The selection isn't the bias it's the amount that is the basis people use as proof
>The Su-25k can eat SPAA missiles 3-4 times
All planes in WT are unrealistically survivable and Su-25 is a very well armored jet IRL
>watch Ukraine war footage, those panels dont do anything
What a great analysis. And Leo2A6 gets disabled by artillery. Does its armor not do anything?
It's funny how you somehow forgot to mention how all other nations have pretty good cas at top tier, especially when it comes to jets compared to Russia, now it's pretty clear when that "little" fact is mentioned why they should have the best AA. Imagine nerfed tunguska having to fight against all the f16s, i guess then everything would be fine and dandy right... 🤡
Literally every other nation has to do that. Only Russia has an absurd SPAA to counter that. Russian mains are a different breed, they’ll do anything to justify the 70% win rate.
stop crying so much omfg
@@dhmhtrhs. it’s been 2 years of Russia stomping top tier. But I guess it’s crying to ask for that to maybe change.
There really isn’t anymore AA for the US except for a Cwis on a Hemett or the Slamramm system
And all that is short-range stuff to add to your point.
Which is why you dont add a 3 fucking dacade newer system than something like adats. US actually could get the MMEV which is better than Pantsir with its IRIS-T missiles.
Doesn’t the MMEV only have Adats missiles and the possibility for Spike ER missiles and Slamramm would be better it’s ground launched aim-120s and aim-9xs launched from a Humvee
Also the MMEV is Canadian it would more than likely go to the UK
Stryker SHORAD. Chapparal, maybe the Rapier, but after that, it’s gg, gaijin NEEDS to add the pac-1 after that I think, balance is dead already at top tier, but it’ll be worse with no real aa for America
As a helicopter and naval player i´m like: "Now you noticed" ?
I grinded one heli, feels impossible lmao, needs to be a real heli gamemode
@@LewisB3217 It was way worse before. It was PvP simulator maps, with arcade-realism-mix where you had arcade flight model, but had to return to base for reloads. It was already pain and suffering, especialy with the starter choppers. Imagen flying for 15 minutes to scratch 10% of a Base, then fly 15 minutes back to reload. And if that wasn´t bad enough, gaijin added the Ka-50, with broken Vikhr Missels. It was the only combat chopper for years and even longer the only chopper with proper AA Missels. For years it was only Ka-50 Teams against Ka-50 Teams and everyone else was just a juice target. It was Russian Bias/Premium Bias in its purest form.
Believe me when i say, the more obscure the gamemode is, the more gaijin exploites it. They show there disgusting greed and bias alot more. Cause they know, most of the playerbase won´t spot it.
@@MeowMeowMeowMeowMeowMeowMeowww Yeah I remember, both modes suck for grinding
My top tier simulator gameplay since Panthsir S1 added to the game:
-Spawning first with AH MK 1: Patnhsir shoots me down.
-Spawning with Challenger MBT KA52/MI28NM shoots me down.
-"fun :,)"
No wonder rus has 100% winrate in GSB...but other nations reaching 80% was extremely unbalanced for gaijin...
@@M0LOCK Yes. And the best part of it, my team never has any anti-air. Sometimes someone spawns with a FlakRakRad or with an ADATS but usually they get instant killed by helicopters. And since the Hellifre rocket for the Apache got nerfed now it's nearly unusable, it's very inconsistent while the Pantsir has no problem shooting you down from twice your range. Balance...
@@echo8828 But for gaijin unbalanced is the Hellfire 114 Lima lol its about time for gaijin to add our smart weapons
The biggest issue is that it’s literally the best SPAA system currently in service or development (as far as the public knows). Other nations does have equal or better AA systems like NASAMS, but the issue is that they are not mobile self-contained systems like Pantsir, meaning that other nations will never get something equivalent to it unless Gaijin changes their rules about vehicles and makes fake Top-Tier AA systems, which at the moment appears unlikely. The closest system would be the Israeli SPYDER which carry Python 5 IR missiles and Derby Fox 3 missiles that could match or exceed the range of 95ya6 missiles. However it doesn’t have a radar (Wikipedia and ChatGPT claims that it can carry one but no image I could find confirms that). The only other potential solution to this problem is to give the US the Pantsir based on the excuse that they acquired a captured on back in 2017, and to give German SAMs something IRIS-T, but that still doesn’t solve the issue that everyone else doesn’t have an equal.
I was watching having a good time then the ending happened and I was like “where gameplay”
Ever since they added the Pantsir and the missile path update, my roland and Ito90m for the french tech tree have been useless to deal with fast targets.
Roland 3 are no longer manouvreable I can't curb them to hit jets. Some even out run them. And the ito may have range and speed but if you change the direction just a bit too much, the missile loses track.
Meaning, i can no longer support my team by dealing with ennemy air targets.
While the ennemies have the pleasure of ruining ground rb with guided/tv bombs and rockets. And don't fear an air response cause their pantsir kill it 10 sec after it spawned!
Another thing about the Pantsir is that the turret is also in place on russian warships…it’s a ship AA system on a truck
If I’m not mistaken it is used on the Kirov class heavy missile cruisers, Moskva class missile destroyers and more
@@tangohotel2599Now Im just more upset that it even functions properly. Wheres the gun jamming? Missiles not firing or not locking because the radar isnt maintained? Why does it not break down as a result of essential parts being scrapped? Gaijin really needs to be more accuarate in their modeling of russian equipment man...
@@blackop3765 You could pretty much say that to every tank. Everything is prone to breaking and some equipment in game have many notorious issues irl. That'd be unfun for everyone to have to experience the faults of their tanks without their control. Its a game after all and if it was realistic; barrels having hit boxes to objects, tanks experience all their problems irl and many other issues they have it would be a terrible time for gameplay.
@@tangohotel2599 you're thinkin of Kortik/Kashtan, Pantsir is also installed on warships but as a back-modification of the Pantsir turret into a naval mounting. Pantsir is an evolution of Tunguska, and Kortik/Kashtan was a combined CIWS/missile system that used the Tunguska's missiles. It's a defensive short range ground SAM that was versatile enough to be bolted onto a lot of things.
@@Kwisss I was poking fun at the maintainance standards of the russian military, if you dont know, theyre not the best about maintaining equipment.
Wt getting their stats from RT
Yes
Soviet cas has max range of smar munitions 13 km and USA has 23 km ( agm-65 b which is a tv guided bomb and doesn't need the players constant lock like laser guided )
Meanwhile Hstv-l is casually without its: Xm885 Delta 3 and delta 6, HE-p, auto tracker, 0.8s reload and armor applique of ceramic and kevlar composite instead of the current rha.
Like that would do much? Hstvl's front plate is bouncing apfsds all the time.
I think the problem is there is a very limited selection of western medium-range air defense. you essentially have the stinger or the patriot and nothing in between.
the problem is that they shouldn't have added the pantsir if there's nothing to compete with it
Even I, Russian main, and pantsir enjoyer, questioning snail: WHY!!! It’s just not fair.
its pretty ridiculous, russia gets the best spaa and it had the strongest cas ingame before f16 was added (still good though) so basically if you verse russia theres zero reason to spawn a plane or heli in unless you want to get killed, russia also has the best helicopters being the ka52 and mi28nm which have 8km range missiles, in the 10km range but still its hard to even get to them in time before they just get out of range PLUS the pantsir missiles are smokeless so they're basically invisible even to thermals and long with arguably the best tanks in game
Not to mention RWRs cant even detect the pantsir radar band yet...
@@M0LOCK and it has quad 30mm guns to defend itself and deal with closer targets unlike other spaa like the vt1s or tor
@@shikikanaz4624 Can even pen the frontal armor of MBTs lol but they still insist that its fair lol
@@M0LOCK and Japan has a Toyota with stingers and Israel a m163 with stingers...
@@shikikanaz4624 I feel for those minor nation like japan, Israel or italy like the OTOMATIC is a 2S38 at 11.3...
The Swedish ASRAD can't even shoot at its 9km range because if you have to move your mouse more than 1 degree the missile just completely loses all sense of direction and flies in a random direction before "trying" to correct itself by overleading massively or sometimes not doing anything at all. Even DRONES can dodge the missile since it goes so haywire lol.
You can either fire the missile with or without a radar lock, but if you ARE radar locked and LOSE the lock, the missile will cease all control even if you reacquire lock. If you AREN'T radar locked, the missile will respond the exact same way as if you were locked, but you don't have the problem of losing lock and the missile losing itself, but you don't get the auto turret rotation so your call there.
It also can't aim up more than I think 35ish degrees? Every Russian AA EXCEPT for the very first 2 in the tree can aim up more than 80 degrees, so that's fun. I honestly ditched the ASRAD for the VEAK until I unlock the ItO, it's been very not fun to play.
Even worse is that they already had a fully modelled TOR for China, they could just slap that one into Soviet/Russian tech tree without any effort and they wouldn't have broken anything.
So imo as a CAS player, its not the missile itself that is so stupidly overpowered but the fact that you dont know if you are being fired at OR EVEN BEING LOCKED. You dont know anything, you cant do anything against it. If its an experienced SPAA player, you might just be dead 5 seconds after spawning. You have no SA because it has TWS so you dont get a warning.. And dont forget about targets rendering at max 14km.. So you have to take an insanely high risk to kill such thing with TV weapons. With Maverick for example, you could maybe kill a Pantsir at 10km range max if you are fast, high and lucky enough. And the SPAA can easily shoot down missiles like PARS or Maverick. Thats why I think we need MAW on modern jets!
the fact that pantsir's radar is really trash as it cannot even lock on targets steady. once the radar lock moves away from the target, the missile goes off the targets instantly
@number7red619 Just try it with your friends, Jets with 900+ m/s will mess Pansir track radar a lot. It's not playable but so frustrated to kill rank 8 jets
The problem is that, yes, there are still better AA for other nations but most other nations don't really do AA the same way as Russia, with tons of self-contained medium range systems like this. Patriot couldn't be added cause you'd need a train of like 3 different modules.
Not entirely, but sort of realistic.
NATO countries rely on air superiority, air targets are countered with fighters.
NATO air defense is plane heavy, eastern air defense is balanced between both air and ground assets.
It is the reason, why the AA vehicles of western origin, aren't that good in the game.
The doctrines are different, therefore, the vehicles and their capabilities are different.
Maybe its the oh so small difference between ADATS being from 1980 and pantsir being from 2010, oh such small difference. Only 3 fucking decades. Nato has systems equivelant if not better than Pantsir like MMEV that uses IRIS-T missiles.
The doctrines doesn't matter if you want to shoot down enemy planes. Western missiles were good, but all the "western" systems in the game are from 70's or 80's and Pantsir S1 was introduced in 2005 and put into service in 2012 after further upgrades, it also has pseudo AESA radar, which is multiple generations ahead of most radars in the game.
@@jakubw.2779Doctrine always matter lol.
@@subjectc7505 doctrine matters in creating a strategy of use or planning, not in creating specific anti air system. I mean if the system was created it means the doctrine was assuming its existence but technical capabilities are separate from doctrine
@@jakubw.2779 Irl the Russian Air Force doctrine primarily focuses on securing their airspace, which is why they lack air superiority in Ukraine because they have little SEAD capabilities and lack of pilot training. The Flankers was built for air superiority, while having the coverage of SAMs.
The Panstir was created to protect key infrastructure and provide short range defense, in combat you'll be attacking alot of military infrastructure.
Pretty sure, all vehicles are created according to doctrine, not just created because someone said build this.
I will have no problem with this thing so long as every other Nation gets a viable cancer remover
My guy actually just called the OTO competitive 🤣
fly higher
The German Roland rockets (and vehicle) have been compleatly nerved into beeing maybe good enough for 8.0 in my eyes.
These rockets move like thrown rocks.
M247 is pretty fun :) American bias there :) 200 grams of tnt in a 40mm Saphei
did you drink blue pill or something, Sergeant York is one of the worst AAs in game. Try surviving hit or kill a tank with it, its slow as hell, it does not have missiles and its HUGE.
@@madkoala2130 it still can kill tanks by hitting the very top edge of the cupola and engine vent and it over pressure kills it
The m247 is alright but it’s just worse that what basically every other nation gets at that battle rating, Israel, Russia, France, China and Japan all get missile aa at 9.0/9.3 and many of those get guns and missiles.
At that battle rating few planes get flares and those that do still die because the missiles have anti countermeasures systems built in.
All the m247 has is stealth proximity rounds which while good isn’t anywhere as effective as all those other aa. Plus Sweden gets a very similar aa with proxy rounds at 8.7
@@madkoala2130 it can overpressue MBTs with its HE by hitting the roof of the turret or drivers hatch.
@@cslpchr they change it Ap belt to Saphei which has 200 grams of tnt In which is the amount that’s in the t13
Mean while you wont know when other nations dont show a missile on the way or RwR ignores lock on like your crush ignores you.
Also it cant look right up so fire and forget weapons can just spam spawncamping
I have solution to pansir s1. just add pansir s2. And noone will complain about s1 because s2 is just 2 times better than s1.