Yakuza's Biggest Unintentional Hypocrite
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- Опубликовано: 31 мар 2024
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In today's video we discuss a character that all of us love much about. We all have our reasons for liking Kiryu as a character, but there are definitely things regarding him that warrant some discussion. He has a side to him that I feel doesn't get acknowledged as much, and I wanted to highlight it with this video. This is the kind of video that I'm fully aware may get hate before someone even gives it a chance, but it is something I'm willing to do because I think there's a lot of merit to it. I welcome any and all discussions so bring on the comments!
Special thanks to Jhrino for the freecam tool that contributed to making some shots for this video. A special thanks to some community members shown in the video, and a special thanks to Subcio for the amazing thumbnail, check them out if you want to commission cool Yakuza backgrounds and/or thumbnails: / subcio_
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Considering the choice of thumbnail, it's really interesting how many parallels you can draw from Max Payne and Kiryu
Both are peak characters from peak games who've lost so much yet keep living against their own wishes at times
I'm sorry but Max Payne is in a whole other level fm
@@Ryan70009 Thank god Rockstar left Max and let him live happily
good morning 2ve
Knew i recognised that from somewhere!
I can imagine Max and Kiryu drinking together, well maybe Max would just have a soda. He did go sober at the end of 3 after all.
Kiryu: "I'm tired of running away."
Also Kiryu: "The Tojo is in trouble? Not my problem."
"Helps Tojo anyway"
@@rogovninYes. Even had to fake his own death and still helps😂
Yakuza 5 kinda ruined Kiryu.
@@mattmark94 yakuza 3 ruined him. In Yakuza 2 his story arc was ended.
@@user-hq2zz6ng6c agreed.
"just to deal with some random poop face from the Poopy Fart Clan."
Man... poetry.
any time i hear characters refer to kiryu as "fourth chairman" in a very reverent tone it makes me laugh. Dude was chairman for like a day and he hand picked his replacement who turned out to be a literal traitor.
To be fair, Kazama trusted him so Kiryu thought it was a solid choice.
Honestly, I feel the same way
But think about it: Kiryu has always acted in favor of the Tojo Clan, even though he is no longer a Yakuza or even its leader. The truth is that he has done much more for the clan than anyone else, including Daigo.
@@cerver6765 Kazama also trusted Kashiwagi and Kiryu knew him to be a loyal captain for like 15 years. He knew Terada for like a couple days at most. Granted, since this was the first game made, its understandable that Kashi isn't given the respect he deserved(Since he didn't have much development at the beginning), but it still makes Kiryu choosing Terada instead amusing.
@@Cecilff2 ...Wait, yeah...why wasn't Kashiwagi chosen as Chairman? Makes a lot more sense now that ya' mention it.
As someone who has had to deal with personal people like this, Kiryu’s hypocrisy of constantly running away is unfortunately a realistic depiction of depression induced self hatred. People will see them selves as burdens to everyone (mostly caused by trauma, which in Kiryu’s case would be the event of 1), and try to push everyone away so they can rot alone, and in their eyes “make up for ruining everything”. They’ll stop at nothing to justify this mindset and push everyone away, to the point of being delusional and hypocritical. In Kiryu’s case, his “I need to make sure no one can get hurt” mixed with his “I’m ruining everything” is creating this pushing everyone away mentality, not realizing he’s only hurting more people with it.
Him shitting on others while proceeding to also run away? 100% self aware. People know their self hatred isn’t just, but are too hard wired to not let go, so they criticize others to “not become like them”. (Although the 3jima scene felt like him purposefully getting them mad)
Still running away after promising to stop? Relapse. Self hatred can be so hard wired that even when it seems good, the self hatred can still be there, and cause easy relapse. Multiple times does it seem like Kiryu’s gotten over it only for some shit to make him relapse (Rikiya’s death, Park telling him to go fuck off, Iwami).
This is why I feel like IW is the end for Kiryu. Ichiban was Kiryu’s hard wake up call that he needs to cut the shit, with him actually realizing how much good he’s done, and how many people cherish him that’s he been taken for granted. Hell the Ebina fight is him confronting his self hatred and hypocrisy, by openly saying this is his fault, and battling his sin not only with fists, but by also begging for forgiveness. After so many games, running away, Nd sacrificing his happiness, Kiryu finally breaks his cycle thanks to the ichi gang and SEEKS to get his happiness back this time.
While the handling of this wasn’t the best, I don’t think these flaws ever detracted how great Kiryu is as a character. But that’s just my interpretation, sorry for the yap sesh. Great video, can’t wait for more!
Damn I didn't even think of it that way. I suppose that's why Kiryu doesn't get treatment for his cancer until post-finale. He didn't want it cuz he just wanted to die
Yeah, that's why IW's finale was so powerful imo. Man finally regained his will to live, and with that, his name.
Thought that forgiveness thing was weird, Ebina really doesn’t give a shit.
@@MadDogSolo Kiryu probably said it more to get it off his chest at first rather than to convince Ebina but in the end he tried to convince Ebina too
@@Suiiiivlaki Probably
Receive You being Kiryu's theme is kinda ironic. The lyrics say "To live is to not run away", but Kiryu does nothing BUT run away from his responsibilities starting with Yakuza 1 all the way until the end of Yakuza 6. His treatment of Daigo is basically the epitome of his hypocrisy, particularly in Yakuza 4. At least Daigo's trying his best with the mess left behind by his peers.
There's also a sense of entitlement that he tends to carry, especially in the newer games. He disappears for years at a time, comes out of nowhere and goes, "I need you to do X and Y for me" without saying even a decent hello. Like dude, at least try to be warm to your best friends and the guy whom you consider a son, maybe?
I love Kiryu for all his qualities and flaws, but the games tend to skirt around the gaps in his morality a little too much for my tastes. That's why I genuinely love the pushback he got from the Jimas in LAD 8, as minor as it was. It should have ended with Kiryu at least admitting some fault, but hey, I'll take the baby steps.
Edit: Commenting this before watching the video, just to get my views out in case I change my mind after watching.
I think you can kinda miss one important point : Kiryu does all this for the Tojo clan because it's Kazama's legacy. It's the one thing he left out and he is attached to it, the way of the old Yakuza which was more "noble" (+ seems to genuinely care about giving a life to rejects, which the Yakuza does) but at the same time hates being Yakuza because of all the crimes and horrible things happening in it. That's where the conflict comes from and where other problems spawn. He isn't just asking people to do stuff to go away, he thinks he isn't that good at handling it either and wants the Yakuza, the Old way of the Yakuza, to thrive and live on like Kazama would have done. That's why he finds other people to do this stuff, they'll handle it better in his mind.
Of course it has consequences and he knows about it later on. That's where all of the Dojima stuff is about. But just to point out one thing, Dojima was a fucking aimless junky before Kiryu beats some senses into him, doing this job gave him a purpose and most likely made him better on top of handling more than thousands of life to try to get them to a better place. Kiryu didn't just throw into the mud to get away, he gave a purpose to the kid like Old Yakuza were doing with orphans and delinquants. Again, it's all about the "Ideal Yakuza" in Kiryu's head.
Kiryu is "good" at handling the clan only in time of crisis where battle is needed, when the ones he chose fail to do their job (which tbf, managing the Tojo clan is near impossible) he feels like he has to step in to correct everything and make it into the Yakuza that follows those "golden ideas" (which Someya points out as old fashioned and lame). That's why he feels like he always needs to come back to handle things, it's a duty not something he WANTS to do. He is angry at the 3Jimas because he sees it as them not handling the situation right when they were clearly made capable. The one flaw of Kiryu in this is getting too attached to something that has to go, letting people handle the curse that Kazama left him. That's the "hypocrisy" but it's within him, not against other people.
The point at the end of Infinite wealth is all about that, he is telling to let go of curses like these. Just live your life at your fullest and cherish the moment you have with others. It's this "double life" that hinders everything he does, not comitting to the one thing he loves full on.
As other pointed out, there's also this mix of him feeling the need to bear the burden of everyone and coming back to solve the problems he made.
Wow you explained it perfectly
Well said, this is exactly why Kiryu always went back to fix things in Tojo clan despite he clearly wants to step out, he believed he has responsibility because he forced guys like Dojima to do the work for him and make the clan operates in the "right" way he wanted.
It is also why Kazuma strongly against Kiryu joining the yakuza world. He already predicted Kiryu will be facing all these dilemmas and it will only makes Kiryu and the people around him suffer.
"Giri". Cannot be said better.
So fun fact about the VTuber thing
The fcking month after IW release Nijisanji (well known VTuber agency) was shown to pull the things that Eiji did to Chitose
Like bar for bar word for word exactly like that
please don’t remind me 💀
RGG really knew a lot of dodgy stuff
WAIT NO WAY⁉️
Honestly a daigo gaiden would be cool,seeing his struggles over the years or a specific time frame
a Daigo gaiden that takes place primarily between 2 & 3 would be amazing, seeing how he goes through accepting the scale of his newly found position and how he has to come to terms of doing the dirty work for the sake of preserving his clan; it would have gotten lesser shit thrown onto him
@zealous404 REALLY close to what I meant!
Exactly! Current Daigo is in a bad place. Even telling Kiryu even death felt tempting. A Gaiden game after 8 could be him having a journey of having a new career path. Daigo could try and do what Kiryu never has. Daigo is the closest to Kiryu's personality, I'll say
A Gaiden game between 2 - 3 also sounds great
Leave it to Kiryu to forget that the selfish deed is no freedom
cant justifeeeeee
Kiryu is one of those few video game heroes of mine. It felt like when Kiryu cried in Gaiden, it was seeing my late old man crying and that scene broke me. To see this big, strong person finally ending up breaking down is downright soul crushing.
Leon dropping another fire video.
Kiryu is the embodiment of a perfect, virtuous Japanese man and a total genius at literally everything he tries *except* his actual job as a yakuza.
Okay, but, this might be a little much, but allow me to explain how I see it, I never saw as Kiryu stagnating, a he is definitely being a hypocrite, but for good reasons. The biggest thing about Kiryu is that he is the most hard headed person in the entire series, for better or worse. The reason why it may feels like Kiryu is constantly making it so he’s making things harder for himself while also talking others out of doing exactly what he’s doing, is because he’s the Tentoumushi. The lady bug, a bug that is meant to absorb all the sorrows of others and carry them himself so that they may be happy. Kiryu isn’t just a hypocrite, he’s a firm believer in shouldering all the burden on himself, and while he is eventually willing to let others help him. At the end of the day, he believes the best case for everyone to be safe and happy, is to make sure that he keeps all the suffering and problems for himself. Let others be happy, and when they’re happy, that’s enough for him. Yakuza 8 emphasizes this perfectly and why I personally believe Kiryu is a hypocrite for all the good reasons.
I believe so as well
I always thought that Kiryu was the absolute peak of their universe, he is so strong, but others are not and when they stick with him they inevitably get hurt
I think that's the reason for his self-destructive mindset. Kiryu thinks of it as his duty to take the hit as much as possible, because HE can handle it and others can't.
In terms of moral inconsistencies, he gets a pass for leaving the clan in my book because he had to take care of Haruka. And everytime he knew it was in trouble he would come to help, because he would feel personal responsibility to do so.
What he said to Daigo in 4 i can't justify in any way, however. But the way i reason with it, is that Kiryu could see that Daigo would fall down a very dark path if he went through with that deal, so he wanted to stop him. In a way, he was doing Daigo a favor because otherwise he would be crossing the lines he can't turn back from.
Besides, you may have noticed but Kiryu, Saejima and Majima hold true yakuza to a completely different standard than normal people.
Daigo shot people in cold blood, he did time for attempting to storm Go Ryu alone, even after getting out became a regular punk, he was a yakuza to his very core. Civvy life was not for him.
Pretty sure Kiryu realized that as well. We may think he was stupid for leaving the kids the first moment Park told him to, but if you think about it, it may have been okay now but eventually the fact that those kids were raised by a former damn patriarch would get to them and prevent them from growing beyond that little orphanage, which is something that Kiryu could not allow to happen.
If they're gonna take a good care of those kids, then sure, why not. They may be unhappy with it, Kiryu may be unhappy with it, but eventually it would have all been for the better.
Kiryu sacrificed his life both as a yakuza and a civillian for that purpose. And i think that it kind of stung when it turned out to be true. They really were better off without him in the end, even if he did leave his mark, he taught them a lot of things but he had no place in their lives.
@@imjustlikedenji5954 it’s the most tragic part when you realize, for as much as the kids miss Kiryu, they all ended up in better places because he wasn’t in their life anymore, and that’s what he is to the end. The Tentomushi. The ladybug meant to hold the seven sorrows of those around him so that they may live better lives
@@imjustlikedenji5954 I desagree. Look, the way orphans are treated by the Japanese society only can be called nasty (that is actually this way in reality, not only in the game, and I just don't understand why). The bulling and the lack of oportunities and more important, the lack of loving care were a real and not a potential problem to this kids and Kiryu was really helping them. If the Society is shitty you don't change the status quo by doing what shitty society demands. You face this bullshit by sticking to those kids and by giving them the love they deserve. This is what real responsability means. But Kiryu is a really stupid and stubborn person. Stupid becouse is easily scammed and stuborn becouse is unable to communicate even with Haruka. I agree about the self hatred part too, but not about the depression at this point of the story.
When he met the REAL VILLAIN of Y5, Mirei Park she takes advantige and directly lies to him. The Yakuza has been running showbiz in Japan since the 50s and becoming an (underground) idol - industry again run by the yakuza - is one of the most disgusting career plans a young lady can take, maybe only above been a hooker. But he is ready to believe Park's bullshit and even auto-convince himself AGAIN that this is a dream or something good for Haruka. WTF Kiryu, youve been there before in Yakuza 2, didn't learn the lesson? And Haruka herself is been influenced by him at this point couse monkey does what monkey sees, and she learns the running away "responsably" path as a pro.
In conclusion: Kiryu was really helping these kids but becouse he is a log leaves them behind only to be the pawn of a rotten society. Hell if this is not a good motive to feel hate against yourself, boy!
This is the origin of the depression and from this point the snowball can only grow bigger and bigger
Part 2: Yeah, I agree that Daigo's probably the most competent example of a Tojo chairman we have: Sera always had his own thing going on, Terada was a Jingweon survivor always looking to his own revenge, and so on. It kinda sucks that Daigo was forced into the role without much preperation time - plus the fact he has to manage 30,000 Yakuza who are inclined to fight amongst themselves and betray and manipulate to climb the ranks - but he's doing his best, as he says. And he's had the longest reign of all the other Tojo chairmen. The fight with him in Yakuza 4 was one of the most painful for me, because as he says, he's just trying to keep the Tojo going and can't think of another way to do it without going for the massive pile of cash that's drawn out every other villain.
And that scene where Kiryu's saying the three Jimas should take responsiblity and see the Second Great Dissolution through, and their initial response is just stony silence...oof. It's funny in a way, but you get the impression they're all like 'Are you serious?' in that moment.
Plus also, Kiryu spent years worshipping the ground Shintaro Kazama walked on, but that man started his career as the most successful hitman in the Tojo Clan. The Sunflower Orphanage was full of the orphans he made, Kiryu among them. Yet Kiryu still considered that man the only father he had.
Kuze: "You best know this much, Kiryu... You're about to step into the... deepest, darkest shit pit of the yakuza world."
Awano: "The longer... this yakuza shit... goes... Ya start to see it a little to clear. Where you stand in it."
Shibusawa: "We write in other's people's blood. That's the yakuza way."
Kazama: "You're the children of the people I killed."
Mine: "Well, I suppose all of this is that hypocrite Kiryu-san's fault. In a way, you're all his victims."
Arai: "You're always too late. That's why these things keep happening."
Hamazaki: "The Tojo Clan is the only living proof left that guys like us even walked this earth."
Watase: "I don't give a single fuck where Daigo Dojima is. The real problem is you not bein' here not solvin' it for yourself."
I know this take is gonna be REALLY controversial, but I think Kiryu's arc of finally owning to his shit whether he wants it or not was in Y5. Dude was always torn between two things: The Tojo and Haruka. In other words, the **burden** ("Giri" (義理) - something that must be done in order to avoid eternal dishonor) Kazama gave to him and raising the child of his loved one. He wants to handle both, to honor both promises, but as stated, is fucking impossible. If he stands with Haruka, the Tojo is in trouble. If he goes back to the Tojo (like he did in Y4) Orphanage management goes... bad.
In Y5, Kiryu, for once, listened to someone as stubborn as he is. That one is Taiga Saejima. Kiryu felt empty and depressed, even more so than when he was behind bars, thing Kiryu was unable to understand. Saejima pointed it out: "you had family you cared about". That family had Kazama AND Yumi. These are the people for who ultimately is fighting for. Kiryu doesn't give a fuck about himself, if he can't protect the people he loves, he is as good as dead. He needs a reason to live. (Reminder of Y1 ending, the very first ending we saw) People worth - in Kiryu's mindset- sacrificing oneself for, no matter the consequences. We all already know how shit and giggles Y5 plot is in terms of cohesive writing. But despite that, the man finally managed to protect both. Haruka was unharmed, and he beat Aizawa, alone, as the only person who could save the clan. Unlike Y2, most patriarchs were dead. Majima and Saejima were fucked up as Kurosawa's hostages trying to save HIS daughter. Daigo was shot. He's seeing the full result of his mistakes. Who to give the Tojo burden to without endangering Haruka? He couldn't just ask these people anymore and easily walk away - He, as a Fourth Chairman is supposed to do, had to risk his life. And so he did literally kicking out Aizawa outta his realm. The clan he will always belong to stood still. Bleeding, dying, he sees his daughter safe in his arms when he's passing. His mind is at ease because he fulfilled both promises, and thus he can finally rest in peace. He might not "die" physically, but I'm pretty sure that his arc as a character dies here. From Y6 onwards, we witness the same conflict all over again. I'm not saying I dislike these games, I love them because they manage to still make us care when we are not even supposed to. But I feel that there is where he, as a character, went stale imo. Time for other characters, for other people, to step up and tell their story. Kiryu's story is long over, dead or alive.
This is only my subjective opinion. Any point of view or valid criticism is as good, if not better, than mine. It's just how I feel about the subject.
this is exactly why seeing the 3jimas not be on the helicopter after kiryu's final battle in IW was kinda infuriating to me. after everyyyything they've been through, everything they sacrificed for him, they dont even get to be with him when he falls ill. they just get to watch him leave again.
(also great vid, i love those slow zoom stills!)
Maybe they don't want to attract the media because they are still in hiding. After vtuber shenanigans, maybe if people saw kiryu with them it could cause some story. For example ex tojo head gang up to beat ebina who right now is a babyface to the media since the yakuza "works" for the government
I said this over at Twitter: This is why I love Kiryu so much as a character- as much as I love and adore the impregnable ideals, positive masculinity/influence, and unbreakable will Kiryu has; it's his flaws that puts the nail in the coffin for me- the ever present hypocrisy in his ideals, actions, wants, and the consequences that come forth of said flaws yet with 100% effort he always tries to rectify these mistakes in anyway possible- the only way he knows how: Punching it square in the face if possible. (Kiryu will forever be my favorite protagonist in media bar none)
the next LaD Gaiden should be called "The man who never dies"
the man who won't f*cking die
TBH, I always wanted a Yakuza game that takes place between Yakuza 0 and the start of Kiwami 1, with a mid 20's Kiryu in his prime.
The Undying Dragon
@@TheChosenMoose01 Same here man, we could also get a Majima side story explaining how he met Katsuya and Park
@@TheChosenMoose01 that would be nice, they did talk about a Yakuza 0.5 before but unfortunately voice actors for Shintaro Kazuma and Reina, and there's one other who have sadly passed away over the last 4 or 5 years
"You think Majima wants to leave behind his newfound ownership of purgatory just to deal with some random guy from the whatever clan" might be one of the realest things someone ever said about this franchise
"Dont sacrifice your self Yuta, thats dumb and reckless!"
Later
"I erased my name to keep my family safe im such a good person, man, why do all of these bad things keep happening to me?"
Crazy how those things are the same things when u completely forget the context for them, but now with context:
Kiryu tried multiple time to stay with his family, never worked. Yuta was young and before trying literally anything else he was going to sacrifice himself.
Kiryu's identity alone was bringing problem to his whole family, the only problem with yuta's identity was his father, who found another way than putting yuta as the head of the Chinese mafia.
You know this is actually reality. People are always changing and being hypocritical. It’s rare anyone just stays the same and keeps the same ideas and beliefs. Also. No one is perfect lol
@@jean-gustavehendrix-bloods1746
Which is still problematic because we've had that too.
Kiryu tried distancing himself from everyone in Y5 and that didn't work either. He did it at the start of the game, for the sake of Haruka's idol dream, it didn't work out. He did it at the end of the game and the start of Y6. It didn't work out.
Haruka didn't even get hurt because of her identity as Kiryu's daughter. It was because she was with Yuuta. Would that have even HAPPENED if he was still there? NO, because he would have been there to support her and shield her from the harassment she was getting from everyone.
This has been going on since YAKUZA ZERO. Kiryu tries to distance himself from everyone and do everything on his own. He fails. Look what happens.
He would've died without all the help from Nishiki and everyone else.
He took the fall for Nishiki, which ended up leading to the poor man's inferiority complex and his insanity.
He ran away from the Yakuza, and it ended up falling apart without him. And he had everyone else pick up the slack in his place, including basically forcing Daigo into the position.
And in the game where he sees that everyone sacrificing themselves and distancing themselves from the people they love DID NOT WORK OUT, what does he do?
He sacrifices his happiness. Again.
And distances himself from everyone. AGAIN.
It was just bad. Kiryu's shortsighted recklessness has done so much damage and he has not learned from it, at all.
@@ES21007Essentially what I posted earlier. He wants no one but himself to suffer, but it actually causes suffering for everyone without his foresight.
@@ES21007i like how you said “I didn’t work out” yeah, if you cut out everything that happens in the game; ofcurse it will look bad and help your narrative lol
It's almost kind of a shame that it took until what will likely be his last playable appearance to finally learn to accept help from others. Like Nanba and Co. were not having ANY of Kiryu's "one-man show" shit that he always tries to pull.
This definitely won’t be his last playable appearance. I kinda wish it would be, but they can’t help themselves.
@@somethingthatisntcringe757 what else can Kiryu do tho? He's sickly and confined to a wheelchair. Unless they're going to do more prequels.
@@hyperdim8457 They’ll find a way
I think a lot of it has to do with how Yakuza's "no story follow-up with a sequel" plot/storywriting is, which just doesn't work for longtime character development. It's kinda like one of those episodic Tokusatsu shows where the episode resets everything but "still a plot at the end, btw" at the end of the day. It's kinda strange. It's almost like they want the games to be interconnected after each installment's events, but don't for some reason. The fact that I also heard the main writer for the series apparently just also makes shit up on the fly(?) and it leads to major character inconsistencies
And it honestly puts a LOT of characters very much in "forever doing the bullshit I swore off from" storyline. That's why characters like Shinada and Tanimura stopped coming back or disappeared, those characters were pretty much done character-arc wise.
You can even see it with Saejima & Majima, just 2 guys in the background kinda just being told/suggested what to do by Kiryu instead of making their own path. 2 Characters, that for all intensive purposes, have pretty much gone through their character arcs in multiple games, not only by themselves, but as well as their relationship to each other.
Interesting video.
I think I would say in summary of Kiryu is that he's a person who's torn between his responsibility to Haruka and the Kids and his responsibility to the Tojo. Thats because to some extent he considers Tojo to be a representation of his life and a home to him. They're both his family. However they represent different aspects of his psyche.
The Tojo clan, by its nature of being a criminal organization, is source of stigma and self loathing for Kiryu. However, Kiryu himself keeps repeatedly showing that in his mind the Yakuza could be something better. He loves the Yakuza for what it could be, but hates what it is and how he must atone for what he could've made it.
Fundamentally, Kiryu has always lived for someone else. He's always tried to support everyone's burdens, everyone's dreams. This is the form of Yakuza ideal he aspires to, and he feels the other legends aspire to this as well as they are cut from the same cloth. Be it him supporting the Tojo clan itself, or supporting the orphanage, its what gives him purpose.
The extent to which he doesn't center himself is represented in Y8 where he had to think really hard about even his favorite food in his bucket list.
In that sense he's less of a hypocrite, and more someone who's spread too thin.
Yakuza 4 is an important game to show this in the conversation between Kiryu and Hamazaki and Munakata and Daigo, and later Kiryu and Saejima. Munakata points out to Daigo that the Yakuza helped rebuild japan in the post war period working with the police in the shadows and they served as another side of the same coin. Hamazaki points out to Kiryu that the Tojo clan is the only proof of life they have.
And Kiryu to Saejima: "It took me 40 years to realize this.... but for guys like us, our lives aren't really our own. Always someone new to help and protect [.....] Too many people and their dreams depend on us"
Thing is, Kiryu is also repeatedly pulled in by someone or the other into the Yakuza life. Terada, Yayoi, Hamazaki, Aizawa/Morinaga and he answers the call to come help and is torn between his new responsibility and his old.
But I think there's one crucial difference between what is asked of Kiryu and what Kiryu asks of others. Kiryu outside of the Tojo has a lot of lives already depending on him, like Haruka or the Orphanage kids which is important. In his own way, he's functioning as a Yakuza ideal, trying to protect people.
However, when Kiryu approaches others to pull them back into the Yakuza "responsibility".... they're aimless and pretty dead inside before he shows up.
Daigo in Yakuza 2 was aimless, picking fights, just moving around. Daigo didn't have much going on for him in life, having felt he lost everything. Daigo had tried picking a fight with Ryuji and got set up and sent to prison. When he came out, he had no purpose, so he'd go around cabaret clubs drinking himself to death.
Majima in Yakuza 3, if you see him on the rooftop before Kiryu makes his request, he says how he feels completely chained keeping afloat Majima Construction. He really felt trapped and done for and wasn't really living his life the way he wanted. When Kiryu asked him to take care of Daigo, he actually intended for Majima to be free and kick ass the way he wanted to and protect the clan because it'd be worth protecting. In a way Majima was still aimless in Majima construction and wasn't living his life's purpose, which also extends to Y2.
And in Y2's Majima saga, they added the retcon that the only reason Majima left the Tojo wasn't to move on, but to prevent it from being Dragged into an all out war with the Omi. So while he was out of the Tojo, the only reason he was out of it was to protect it, so Kiryu asking him to come back to protect it when it needed him more than ever should've just been more of what he was doing.
The 3jimas in Y8 were absolutely at the lowest point of their lives. They had nothing going on for them, and the only reason they didn't kill themselves is that they'd become martyrs and symbols to stir up the Yakuza again. Kiryu going there actually reinvigorates them. They had nothing to live for in that situation, but when they come back, you see they cleaned up and felt reinvigorated.
His fight with Daigo in Yakuza 4 and his dialogue has to be considered within the context of what Daigo told him.
Daigo: "If it were you, you'd probably try to rebuild the clan without all this money"
Kiryu: "Hard to say what I would do if I were in your shoes"
Daigo: "I'd leave the clan to you if could.... but I have too much pride for that. I want to lead by example, the way you did for me"
Kiryu: "Leading the Tojo clan is a heavy cross to bear. Its time you learnt how heavy"
In this dialogue, Daigo wants to lead the way Kiryu does to some extent. Kiryu through this fight wants to show Daigo how he would bear the clan's burden with his own ideals and strength. The dialogue shouldn't really be taken out of this context where Daigo wants to lead like Kiryu does, so Kiryu showing him how he would.
I sorta just chalk this up to Nagoshi being like “yo let’s put everyone in goofy-ahh situations” and then years after the fact we’re all starting to notice the issues with the stories. Personally I don’t let it hinder my enjoyment of the games… unless we’re talking about Park from Yakuza 5, in which case she belongs in a wood chipper
At least he's honest at trying his darndest to beat children in pocket racer
characters having bad traits doesnt make them badly written, it makes them human
Yeah, that’s the reason a lot of people still prefer kiryu over ichiban
@@andresashura5550 Tbf, Ichiban has bad traits too
@@andresashura5550 Ichiban has a lot of bad traits too. In fact, he started as unlucky loser that was at rock bottom. This is what make him so relatable
I think the point isn't bad traits, it's likely the character is done for, and imo I think it should ended with Y6.
I disagree with what you said near the end.
Each time Kiryu left, he did so after a conflict was over, and when everyone assumes things will be ok. And each time he comes back to the Tojo, is when he gets wind of trouble brewing, in which case he runs to Tokyo as quickly as he can.
The one outlier to this is Y5, but that is because he realized that bring involved with the yakuza will hurt his family, but even then he still gets involved. He even helps them out in 7/Gaiden, too, and again here feels like he has a personal responsibility in 8, while the jimas are just sitting there, having given up, not protecting or fighting for anything. Kiryu's negligence at least was done to help out his family. The jimas can be tired all they want, but it's understandable for Kiryu to be frustrated at that, when he feels like all 4 of them are responsible to fix the situation. Which is something the jimas are also proven to think by the end, judging from how they showed up in the final.
I don’t know if this was your intention, but now I love kiryu more than ever lmao, and I think he is the perfect yakuza protagonist.
Using Blue Jacket Redux during Y6 footage is insanely based
I always thought of Kiryu as some sort of japanese Batman, who is so entangled in his own moral code that his enemies use it against him all the time.
Also just as Bruce Wayne used his close ones (Alfred basically lives to serve him, Barbara Gordon got severely injured for life and kept serving him, Jason Todd payed with his life for being Robin and Batman never got rid of Joker despite how batshit insane and hopeless this guy is. Dick, Tim and his own fucking son are always kept in the dark if his own goals are in line with that) Kiryu used Majima and Daigo in the same way and they ended up paying the price for it. Instead of being a man and actually taking responsibility like Kazama was doing his entire life, Kiryu wanted the hard stuff to be done for him by others so he could live the good and happy side of the yakuza life without any downsides. But he was always living on borrowed time and instead of actually fucking being there where Tojo Clan and his friends needed him he distanced himself for as long as possible until it was too late, so when he was there to save the day everyone was fucking dead already or they end up dead anyway because he didn't have balls to finish the job himself (like Jingu killing Yumi in part 1). That's what moral contradictions with his wishes do to the man.
There's actually A LOT you could do with character like that in the future, but we'll see if someone in RGG writing room have balls to do that x)
Cancer was a step in the right direction, that's for sure.
Give Ichiban a couple more games and he will be here.
Infinite wealth confirmed that he didn't do anything during Lost Judgement. You now, the game where ex-yakuza got together and started to terrorize Kamurocho and Ijincho while bodies showed up in abandoned locations, in Ijincho.
Kiryu being a flawed and hypocritical person doesn’t make it bad writing, he’s written like that on purpose. In fact, This is what makes Kiryu so likeable and easy to connect/relate with. Kiryu is written realistically and RGG isn’t afraid to show the hero being weak or making wrong decisions just like everyone else in the real world. In 5 Kiryu exclaims that every time he gets involved everyone else gets hurt or in danger. In 6 Kiryu even tells Akiyama that he knows he does things without thinking and that it’s a bad habit. At the end he states that him being around only brings trouble to people important to him.
Kiryu also constantly ran away after stating he would stay. In 8 Kiryu knows the consequences of running away and forcing others to do things alone, I feel like this is why he was so aggressive to Daigo, Majima and Saejima.
A flawed and/or hypocritical character in a story being bad is definitely not what I meant to convey, it's the fact that we get the same pattern with him repeated for so long now, and yet people out there overlook Kiryu's actions and the constant recurrence of the same kind of problem, and trash on other characters somehow as if he's much better than them.
I dont know who is trashing who other than light jabs. Id like to pount out that Kiryu isn't alone in this.
He has pointed multiple times to leave him alone, but they keep dragging him along with their problems. I think they shouldve respected his desicion, just like Kiryu tries to do by not being involved.
But its a never ending cycle. Even if they never ask Kiryu for help, he would still be involved because the people he cares are in trouble. He's just a caring emotional meathead. And being hypocritical is part of being human.
Just like our favorite Golden Dragon says. "A man is allowed to be stupid sometimes."@@devilleon7
I doubt it on purpose.
well, atleast until post yakuza 5 where shit actually happened with him instead of "oh no! Tojo clan is in danger!" and kiryu goes "im going to teach you the weight of leadership (via beating the shit out of you)" while being forth chairman for 4 second
That Max Payne inspired thumbnail goes hard
"Sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a man in the process of changing." - Dalinar Kholin
Except Kiryu, bro rarely learns lol
That's basically why I made this video I enjoy having displays of hypocrisy from characters as long as it leads somewhere, I just feel like it leads nowhere with Kiryu and there is no lesson learned. And that still would be fine to an extent, but I'm not so sure when it extends to 8 games.
The highlight being that he never takes away the effing gun from the enemy.
@@devilleon7 i think that by the time 6 happened, Kiryu actually started to learn, he's way less hypocritical after that game and in gaiden and 8 I think he's finally got his shit together
@@devilleon7 I agree it is rather unfortunate how after so long they have wasted Kiryu as a character. He is almost always in the same role throughout the series but I feel it got worse post Y0 and to an extent Y6 not committing to his ending. It always reverts to the norm like some sitcom
It's so weird how in 2 and especially 3, they make it like Majima wants nothing to do with the Tojo Clan 2. And then for 4 and 0, surprise, turns out he wanted to be in it all along so Saejima could find him.
The obvious answer of course is that they were making it up as they went along, which makes it look weird looking back on it all as a whole.
Would love for you to make more analysis videos like this on more characters including side characters
THIS is why I love Kiryu. He's an incredible and admirable person, he's a great role model, but man's not perfect; he has commited BIG fuck ups through his life and RGG noticed that and used it to develop him in such a great way post 5, and EVEN THEN he still makes mistakes and cuestionabke things.
Humans are not black and white, we are not perfect and Kiryu is one of the most human characters out there.
20:10 thats the shitty thing about Yakuza 4's ending. That IS what happens. Kiryu leaves the orphanage for a while and stays with the Tojo, helping Saejima set up his own family and coaching Daigo on running the clan. By the time of 5, he's apparently got things mostly under control, given his apparently successful attempts at allying the Tojo with various regional clans around Japan. If they had dropped Kiryu as a protagonist there, like was the plan with Yakuza 4 in the first place, that would've been it. Kiryu stays on deck to help the Tojo when they need, and we get to explore the world through other eyes now that the dragon gets to rest. But then the actual plot of 5 happens, and suddenly Kiryu needs to abandon everything again and leaves Daigo out to dry right before he needs Kiryu's help the most. Then Kiryu keeps dying and coming back over and over again, and he can't seem to decide whether he actually wants to help the Tojo but can't, or whether he's fully capable of just doing whatever he wants and chooses not to help anybody because he doesn't feel like it anymore.
They've lost the plot, is what I'm saying. Kiryu as a character may as well have ended in 4, because as of now, he's just a shell of his former self. There was at least a chance of giving him a real ending in 6, but then they fucked that up too. At this point, I think the best thing he can do is just stay dead, because as long as he's alive, he's just going to keep bouncing around making things better and worse at random, and continuously failing to commit to any one path in life.
That part in Yakuza 3 was what made me love Majima. Seeing him blazing through in that pink truck without any hesitation to save Kiryu.
Having very recently played through 2 and 3, I definitely felt for Majima. Like damn, he seemingly just existed in those games to be a yes man if Kiryu could beat him in a fight. I love Kiryu, but you very eloquently explained his biggest flaws and how his self awareness still never seemed to fully extend to the people he put through the most (aside from Haruka, that is).
I can already imagine the amount of dislikes you probably get for daring to criticize Kiryu's character.
Anyway, long rambly ass comment incoming.
Kiryu's hypocrisy or wishy washy tendencies is something I noticed since way back when Y4 was the latest game and it kept escalating since then. This is partly the result of writing by the seat of your pants for each game (and getting rid of a crime novelist as a consultant) and partly the result of continuing a series after the second one pretty much finished Kiryu's development, so you kind of have a character keep "relearning" the same lesson. Or forgetting the lesson and failing to relearn it.
To a degree it makes sense though. When he was a Yakuza, he was nothing more than a debt collector. Even by the time he was about to establish his own family, the first thing we see him do is help Shinji with debt collecting. We never saw him do anything else. His problems and the solution to those problems 99% of the time involved fists.
So now he's thrust into the 4th chairman position. What does he know about running a clan of less than noble criminals. Or how to raise a girl properly with his background. Its no wonder that at the back of his mind he constantly thinks that other people are more suited to those responsibilities than some guy who gets into street brawls on the regular. Yakuza 2 shows many hints that he's practically a death seeker at that point because of how little he thinks of himself, or at least his role in other people's lives. In his mind the people closest to him would get over it and be better off in the end if he were to disappear.
And I don't think that mentality ever really leaves him. Whenever there's a crisis in the Tojo, he comes back to help partly because it's usually a result of him decimating clan families and because he knows he can only help with his fists, which is usually what they need at that time. Coupled with people close to him getting roped into those messes before he gets involved, fueling this feeling that their lives are getting messed up because of him.
And then Mirei Park shows up and tells him his very presence and existence is a burden and danger to his kids and that he should fuck off and die (paraphrased). She all but confirmed to him that his feelings of being better off gone were on the money.
Its both funny and sad to me that after all the sacrifices by Kiryu, Majima, Saejima, Daigo, Nishiki, Kazama, Sera, Yumi, etc. and all the bloodshed and death in all those years, both the Tojo and Omi end up disbanding. Making all of that effort to save those clans a waste.
With regards to him forcing Majima and Daigo back into the Tojo, I've got nothing on that. Not even a whisper of thanks for everything THEY sacrificed for him. Kiryu is self righteous, not unlike Kazama I imagine. He holds on to this ideal image of a man and a Yakuza and that's what compels him to act like a dick (possibly unintentionally) to Daigo, Majima and Saejima in IW. In his mind, they were there at the beginning and they should be there at the end, same as him. It likely only makes sense to him and nobody else.
Side note: Never understood why Daigo was considered a poor leader by the community. He was always in a lose-lose position mostly due to circumstances outside of his control and also because of Kiryu constantly crippling the clan more and more with each game. Doesn't help that the series tends to portray guys like Majima, Daigo, Saejima and plenty of other characters who are yakuza almost as saints even when they're part of a criminal organization that engages in gambling, racketeering, debt collecting, prostitution, bribery etc. and the yakuza who behave like, you know, YAKUZA, as unruly children in need of punishment.
SPOILER WARNING FOR IW ENDING AND OTHER GAMES
(I haven't finished the video yet so maybe you talked about it but I thought about bringing it up anyway beforehand)
Kiryu, especially in the later games like 6, Gaiden and Infinite Wealth seems to know that he's made heaps of mistakes in life and that he is far from a good person (he is but he doesn't believe so)
I guess thats why in 6 thats why he easily comes to the decision to fake his death for the safety of others around him and why in Gaiden he endures being in the Daidoji Faction for so long.
That's why he keeps on coming out of retirement, because he feels like he has to atone for all the mistakes and wrongdoings of his past and why he just wants to die from his cancer at first in Infinite Wealth without going through treatment
But through the events of Infinite Wealth, him successfully passing the torch to Ichiban in a post-yakuza world and him begging Ebina for forgiveness at the end was him successfully atoning for his past. After all, one of the themes for Infinite Wealth is second chances. Look at Eiji, Chitose, hell even most of the party get second chances of a normal life at the beginning of the game.
The biggest example of this second chance theme however, is Kiryu. That's the reason why I think making him survive at the end of IW was the correct choice. He has another chance at life, without the conflicts of the yakuza coming in and Ichiban and gang are there to help so now Kiryu can spend time with Haruka and the kids at Morning Glory. So yeah, while Kiryu is very hypocritical at times with the whole killing thing, chucking everything on Daigo and Majima and idolising Shintaro Kazama, I think overall Kiryu managed to redeem himself at the end.
Sorry for this long ass speech lol. And sorry again if it makes zero sense or I'm yapping about a whole lot of nothing, I rushed this while on like 5 hours of sleep. Anyway, time to watch this peak video, I'm sure it'll be a great one Leon!
🙏
Great video! I think it was Yakuza 3 that first made me see this hypocrisy in Kiryu's decision-making. There's a dialogue between Kiryu and Mine in Purgatory, where the latter tries to persuade Kiryu into helping the Tojo Clan once more. Of course, Kiryu refuses due to the fact that Mine's ways of going about controlling the entire situation are way too brutal. He takes the moral high ground, of sorts. Once Mine understands that, he literally calls Kiryu a hypocrite, who doesn't understand the position he's in.
All Mine knows about Kiryu at that point in time he learned from Daigo, and I think that outsider perspective is what allowed Mine to see how unbelievably ridiculous Kiryu's stance is towards the Tojo Clan, even before he himself realizes that. The man regarded as a living legend of the organization will continuously assist the yakuza and then will run away to try and turn a new leaf, rejecting every future help request until his conscience or sense of honor wouldn't allow him to anymore. And after confirming the fact that Kiryu's life is stuck in this seemingly unbreakable cycle, Mine stops trying to see the guy as his ally, despite Daigo's approval, and escalates his entire Yakuza 3 plan. A very telling illustration of the video topic, I think, despite it being encountered relatively early in the franchise.
When Mine was having his dialogue in purgatory, I found myself agreeing with him a lot about Kiryu. And, I see why he was distasteful about him since he is seeing this from an outsider's perspective. He can't understand why Daigo idolizes him so much even after what Kiryu did to him
the biggest problem for Kiryu is probably that all his life he almost didn't know anything but the Yakuza life. As Protegé of Kazama it's the life he wanted until he realized that it might not be the good life he thought it was. He feels responsible for the Yakuza in some way but he also doesn't want to. Almost like being on a long Leash.
It feels like he's some kind of Mythical being and not a real person, almost like a story you tell someone that want's a life of Crime, that if you are in, you can't get out no matter what. He's Hypocritical af but that's the point i think, the Ghost of Yakuza past shows you why it's so bad to have this kind of life, why it can be lonely even if you are never alone type of thing
This is before watching the video, take it with a pinch of salt:
I believe that his hypocrisy stems from the unwillingness to let anyone else other than himself to suffer. What he did not see is that his way of doing it, from the consistent push to still represent the Tojo for the sake of the Jimas, to signing a pact with the Daidoji, ended up accomplishing the opposite to some degree.
I like how you use some kind of mod to show the moment from a cutscene, with stopped animation. It's pretty cool. And then I notice characters blink :D
yakuza negative -1
playable makoto tojo
YAKUZA 1920 (AMON FROM DEAD SOULS)
I feel like 4 was a great place to end Kiryu's story: He's finally acknowledged that he should have been more present to help Daigo, oversees the formation of the Saejima family, and suggests that while he needs to go back to Okinawa he'll always be a phone call away. It's also a game where he plays a relatively minor role and the other three protagonists (especially Akiyama) seem to have enough charisma to carry on the series.
And then 5 goes out of its way to ruin all that so he can relearn his lesson in 6 (and then unlearn it for the finale), which means Kiryu running away from the clan turns from an arc into a cycle, which then makes 8 necessary.
At the end of 4 he was more involved with the yakuza. In 5 he realizes that this involvment screws with committing to his family, so he leaves for them. They're slightly different lessons
I honestly wouldn't mind way more of these types of videos. There's so much opportunity for character analysis and deep dives into the themes of the series. If this video was any indication I think you could do a great job with doing that. Cause this video was amazing to watch
You know, I'm glad these days the fandom can take the "Incompetent Daigo" jokes as just jokes and will defend the guy and his 1-2 only trustworthy allies trying to keep a sinking ship afloat for years as being leaders of a volatile Yakuza organization frankly just sucks.
I mostly kinda see Kiryu putting Daigo in a very high position without much guidance to be similar to Kazama giving Nishiki the resources to become a patriarch. The only difference is that Daigo at least has a backbone compared to Pre-Losing his marbles Nishiki and Kiryu actually stepped in for once in 4 before Daigo on desperation went over the edge despite the rather hypocritical speech he gave. It's admittedly better than Kazama...Not doing much for Nishiki whose really giving that look that screamed I need help despite not asking for it in comparison.
But yes, the hypocrisy is glaring but it does really paint the complicated nature Kiryu has and his struggles about it. Nobody really hates the guy but admit this aspect is quite a flaw that does get pointed out and Kiryu really tries to truly owe up to it though it's much recently it feels like it'll stick since life unfortunately likes to kick Kiryu in the balls given how much happened in his life.
Since the iceberg video, I've been a big fan of your longer analysis videos! I enjoyed watching this video, THANK YOU!
one of my breaking points with yak was how even in 8 kiryu still won't give majima the slightest of courtesy about his situation, meanwhile every new face gets to call him by his first name. I'd have that dead eyed stare too 17:00
Absolutely loved this video, would love more in this style, thanks!
This is what happens when you have too many writers. There is no clear vision for the overall series. Also I don't think Sega knew that this would be a recurring series at first.
It would be really cool though if he stayed as chairman and we still played as that.
I've not watched this yet, but I will put my initial views here for the moment, so...
I agree. Kiryu IS a hypocrite. He held the highest position in the Tojo Clan at one point, and if he had stayed on then he could have done a lot more good for the Yakuza, steered them on a better path. But he didn't. He left, after a single day. In Yakuza 4, right before he fights Daigo he tells him 'The Tojo Clan is a heavy cross to bear. I'll show you just how heavy.' And inevitably it's followed by 'How would you know Kiryu? You dipped out as chairman after a day!'
He did, but the fact he kept coming back to help fix whatever mess the clan got into shows he still held onto that responsibility to some extent. You can argue it's not his fault the Tojo Clan is full of people who can't keep it together for more than a year or two before betraying it or trying to tear it down to fulfill their ambitions. But then Kiryu is also the most stubborn person on the planet and insists on taking everything on himself: even right before fighting Ebina, he says the sins of the Yakuza are his to bear, even though there's at least 3 others in that building who could claim to do the same.
And it's only in the Twilight stages of his life, shackled to the Daidoji - and then later terminal cancer - that he seems to finally take that responsibility fully, helping to push the Great Dissolution through so all those Yakuza can perhaps make new lives for themselves, and then taking on Ebina, who is the personification of the damage the Yakuza have caused to regular people over the last decades. Him breaking down in tears as he begs for the Yakuza to get a second chance feels like something he's held back for decades, and the floodgates are finally opened.
Yeah, I get that the video subject and title is bound to get some negativity, but all the best characters are not perfect: Kiryu is a hypocrite, but he's also the kind of guy who would go above and beyond for the people he cares about, and would shoulder any burden to make it happen, and also has few qualms about helping out complete strangers he runs into on the streets. But we've all gotten to know this guy over the last 19 years, and you get to know a person's flaws and ideals in that time.
Keep up the good work on thee vids, Leon. Been enjoying your Yakuza content for a while now.
Something that snowiestangstman brought up kinda hit me recently. One big issue with the yakuza games is that each game pretends the last game never happened. The perfect example is yakuza 5. The whole kiryu goes into huding for haruka to become an idol is literally pointless bc the entire country would know who kiryu is. He's the guy that helped expose police corruption, stop a Korean mafia invasion, stopped a politician in 1, and the list goes on. Everyone would look at kiryu, at least the general public, as a hero. Him being a yakuza wouldn't hurt harukas image bc he's a literal hero yet this talent agency pretends that he's a villain and the public would shame haruka when in reality, her being associated with kiryu would literally boost her career like crazy.
In non Japanese society you would be correct. But even with the good he's done he'd still be looked at as a criminal and murderer to the Japanese especially considering the truth about who really killed Dojima senior never came to light. In Japan once you have a criminal record that's it you're an outcast whether you're innocent or not.
wasn't even known his names was in the papers for those?
Except nobody knew about him. Yakuza isn't a super hero game series.
@@Drums_of_Liberation ya, in Japan they even ban cartoons like Bob the Builder, because he had 4 fingers (can’t portray people with 4 fingers because Yubitsume in children media).
I'm not sure about the superhero part but I'm absolutely certain about Park's bullshit. Yakuza has been controlling the Idol Showbiz since its creation. So... you can destroy an Idol's career by been a retired Yakuza taking care of an Orphanage but not been an active Omi Captain that is the president of the biggest talents company in Osaka. Sure! Why not?
And she totally knew that, this Omi guy was her best friend. In Yakuza 5 Kiryu was framed but not by this sad sack of shit Kurosawa, but by a real villain capable of exploding all Kiryu's falls.
And then, she gets killed by her own karma. XD
Amazing video on a topic that i feel it never been talked about.( on YT ) Great work!
In the Kiwami 1 flashbacks everyone told Nishiki that Kiryu would have done his job better, now i am sure he wouldn't, if anything seeing how Kiryu screwed up everything he was in charge of makes me think Nishiki 100% deserved to be the Tojo Clan 4th chairman
No, he wouldn't. Trading a man who's genuinely way too good willed for a shitty business for a power hungry, obsessed psychopath would actually just be worse.
If Nishiki had gotten the support that Kiryu had, he probably would have been a good chairman. Despite only showing it when he snapped, the Nishiki family was successful and powerful. Its members were intensely loyal to him. So much so that Shindo, his successor, tried to emulate him in 2. He had all the traits to be a good leader except confidence in himself until he broke completely and started lashing out. But by then his moral compass was gone. Maybe Kashi and Kazama thought it would be improper to give advice or show any favoritism once he started his family, but I think it would've probably been all he needed to not give up on the world. Or maybe if Kiryu hadn't covered for him and he'd been allowed to atone in his own way. I don't know if he would've survived prison(He's strong enough to fight off the assassination attempts, but his mental state still wasn't good at the time), but I think it would've been a better result on his mental state than knowing Kiryu took the fall for him, and having to listen to everyone wishing it was him in prison instead.
51:19
"..and there's no real.. Moving forward with him."
Personally, it feels like because his arc peaked and he basically was meant to have his ending in 3, 5, or 6, but instead due to meta and in universe reasons, he had to lose it in order to fulfill the grander story which I don't believe is bad in itself, not all characters can get what they want in the end, but I think it's fair to ultimately say that if he feels 'stuck' as a character, it's down to the fact he's being stretched thin in terms of writing that it can even be acknowledged his more critical flaws that have come up due to writing his character for so long.
Ultimately, I perfectly see this perspective you've presented, even as someone that did see what the game wanted me to see of Kiryu, that scene with Daigo in his taxi cab in 5 never sat right with me even though I never really thought about the 'Hypocritical Kiryu' angle and mostly because not just 5, but plenty of games highlight how much Kiryu absolutely cares about Daigo, his feelings, life, and the Tojo Clan deep down due to the history and legacies all tied to it, so just the absolute callousness he has to Daigo to potentially keep up this facade he wants for himself to keep running away even from what should be his happiest days just really rubs me the wrong way even as someone that up to that point of personally seeing the moment for myself, was not entirely disliking where Kiryu went.
But yeah, at some point, whether it's at that same moment as I, earlier, or later on, you start to realize Kiryu while noble in his intentions to do what's right, has a side to him that is a sort of double negative, because he absolutely would dissociate with his criminal past if at all possible if it meant his family could be safe, yet at the same time, it's a deeper problem of him having always ran from what was also always his responsibility since Yakuza/LaD 1/Kiwami.
He traded the responsibility of 30k men, a whole hierarchy, and legacies entrusted to him from Tojo Clan legends for the responsibility that was more personal to him, Yumi's child Haruka. There's a sort of argument you could have about this alone that regardless of if he chose to instead stand by the Tojo Clan, it would be 'right' by the context it's presented in.
It's a really interesting dilemma Kiryu has honestly, there are two kind of lifestyles that Kiryu is justifiably responsible for yet he's got the impossible task of needing to fight the fact he cannot actually juggle both of them because they're so fundamentally opposed from one another, if anything is ever impressive about his struggle is that he even manages to find balance at the end of most games when ultimately giving up the responsibility of one lifestyle would have made the responsibility of another far more attainable for him, but he never does due to his conviction and determination to do what he felt is right by *everyone*. But the series presents the very real result that even the most noble and well meaning intentions can still have bad consequences.
Way I see it is Kiryu is kinda like Majima's new Sagawa, at least in spirit. Keeps him in Kamurocho to work for an organization he wants absolutely nothing to do with and surrounded by its members, the type of people he disdains for several years, which almost got him killed, arrested two times, and even kidnapped.
Yet his strong loyalty to Kiryu is able to make him endure everything and risk his own neck for him. It's commendable, but at the same time also very tragic it gets in the way of his very own life.
thank you for a wonderful long form vid!! excited to dig into this. please don't overdo it while you cook up these bangers bro, make sure to rest up and pace yourself :))
Really appreciate the kind words, thank you!
Pretty sure his business for the Daidoji has broke him to the point he doesn't know what to do. The "unintentional" part makes sense the more you think about it.
One moment he is chill, the other he goes apeshit even against his own allies.
Awesome video Leon👌you gave an interesting perspective on kiryu's character that i hadnt quite noticed before.
AND you not only did that for Daigo but more importantly Majima. I hadnt realized just how much he did for Kiryu
I am only just getting back in after finishing 8 and finding your channel so I’m enjoying the backlog
While I understand the reason Kiryu is so attached to the Tojo /as a concept/ is because he associates it with Kazama, it doesn't make him any less of a hypocrite in denial, because he learns the same time as us that Kazama wasn't this good father figure he remembers him to be, he was a skilled assassin and probably commited more henious crimes during the post-war times, because thats what he (and everyone) needed to do to substain their way of living. Kiryu prides himself in not justifying murder, but conveniently forgets that the one he most admires is a murderer himself. This delusion of his is what causes to push his burden on others, afraid that he is not capable of keeping the image of the institution his surrogate father worked so hard for, yet forgetting that he is not the only person to have suffered a great deal by just being in the yakuza. Has he ever truly cared about his comrades? Asked about their sufferings? Does he even know what they had to sacrifice to be where they are? The 3jimas respect him for his strenght and his poise, but if it wasn't for him being good at looking pityful they would too be tired of his charade.
Hell, the whole plot of Y5 kind of worsened by him leaving Haruka in charge of a random because he thought having her work was better than to ask any of his "friends" to help with financing the orphanage, even though we know for a fact that they would do it in a heartbeat and idk, maybe have a chance on working at a serious institution there and move on from their criminal life style???? Haruka didn't even want to become an idol in the first place, she did it to win money for her home, which goes directly against what Kiryu wanted about the kids having to work to keep the place afloat, he put a huge pressure on her too! And she was only 16!
I remember loving 7 a lot precisely because they changed protagonists, I wanted to see someone tackles issues differently, and Ichiban being an open book with his emotions was a welcoming change after years of looking at a moody old man that really needs therapy. I haven't finishes IW, but I hope Ichiban and his gangs influences Kiryu to wake the fuck up and get a grip on himself, start treatment and actually works his ass off to make ammends with the people he left behind, help the 3jimas that definently don't deserve to live in a shack, and ask Haruka to forgive him for being such a shitty dad.
You are my favorite channel bro a lot of your streams and videos got me through a tough time. I do not comment much or anything but I sincerely appreciate these vids and please keep making them.
A masterful essay on this topic, Leon!
Ohhh man an hour long Leon video?, always a good time !
I'm happy you're proud of me man. People rarely praise me for going against the grain. I used to criticize Daigo, but a combination of more time with him, plus seeing reviews from different review RUclipsrs and their own perspectives, has influenced my perception of Daigo and for the positive.
"Oh my GOD Devilleon7, how could you call my favourite character Kazuma Kiryu a hypocrite?!"
Jokes aside, congratulations on releasing the project! Looking forward to finally watching it
Yes!
Yep, it's always baffled me how Kiryu would ask ridiculous favor and he does get away from returning favor pretty scot free for some reason.
But then again maybe they kept doing it for him because Majima does stated in Kiwami 1 that he want to see Kiryu's ideals to the end, more evidently in IW when Kiryu tried to convinced the help of 3Jima but end up fighting and informing them of his cancer, Majima express genuine concern that a disease will take Kiryu before Majima see the end of his ideals, which is a stark contrast to what Majima has done to get his place back in the Yakuza ( Kiryu stay true to his kind nature and get reinstated back into the Yakuza, Majima has to slog through dirty jobs and being used, has to donned a crazed persona to even get back to the Yakuza ).
As for Daigo, i think even if he doesn't want to be a chairman after 2, he can't just up and leave his position. Even worse for Daigo, i can't even think of anyone that would fit the criteria for Daigo to trust as the next chairman. Majima is an ideal candidate, extremely good with human management, beastly strong and the crazed persona can instill fear and respect even the most hardened Yakuza, also has a natural abilities to run businesses as we see him run a cabaret, a construction company and revitalize Purgatory. Problem is Daigo probably respect Majima too much to ask him ( knowing he's one of the few Kiryu entrust and Majima doesn't want anything to do with the Yakuza when he start his own construction company).
But then i guess the flaws in writing Kiryu from 2 to 5 is partly because RGG just kinda want to end Kiryu's saga early than most people expect, as early as Y3. Why? Because if you know the ending cutscene of 3 and 5, they always made it like Kiryu about to die for real. I guess they try to experiment with different character like in 4 where Kiryu kinda take a backseat role.
Overall, at least i appreciated they write Kiryu this way, or else he would just be a mainstream goody two-shoes, which would have been very boring IMO
Majima post Yakuza 2 needs to be studied.
Blue jacket for Y6? Unfathomably based
22 mins in and I'm loving the video, super insightful as I honestly never thought about the story in that kind of way
i just replayed kiwami 2 and it truly feels like kiryu is in the yakuza in that game for the entire time, it's kinda funny
Thumbnail won my heart
It reminds me of the Fact, that the Decisions considered the least, can screw us the most.
Many Memories of Things i screwed up on, when is was younger.
The most important Lessons are the hardest to learn and the easiest to fail on.
BANGER VID LEON, will definitely be replaying this in the bg while i draw
About the Ebina speech (spoilers):
I'm so glad I wasn't the only one who felt it was most effective as metanarrative reflection... Imho Ebina wasn't so much a well-written character as he was a vehicle for repeated motif and thematics, so as a look back on the history of the series it feels appropriate for Kiryu to confront him (I still like Shishido better but what can u do lol). I do wish he and Eiji were given more time to be characters outside of Tatara Channel/Seiryu hijinks; I know I'm not alone in that haha
I also think I'm still in the camp of "gee I wish Ichi were the one fighting Ebina" not so much bc of the whole "sons of Arakawa" thing but moreso bc Sawashiro is there + the parallels btwn how Ichi + Ebina view their mothers could have been cool to explore... The former cares less about Akane as a mother figure but will honor her wishes + the man she loved regardless, the latter regards Yuriko a fool for believing he could live free of revenge.
Sort of another thing entirely but Ebina's "angry and desperate victim" shtick paired against Kiryu's... cowardice/disdain for yakuza leadership? felt almost cathartic lmao. Like I highly doubt Kiryu would've let the overnight destruction of the Hikawa Family pass unanswered were he fourth chairman at that time. Maybe Ebina blamed him too, despite their timelines not really lining up...
I feel a little relieved that this video and comments agree with me on the fact that most of the time, kiryu tends to run away from immediate consequences to only to return to try to make up for them when in fact it is too late to make up for thm. I feel a little light now that this point of view about kiryu has been explored. Kudos to you
This was an amazing video that puts Alot of stuff into a new light for me. i honestly think kIryu himself doesn't know how his brain works. Guess that's Kazama brainwashing working it's magic.
Having the 3-5 scenes with Daigo and Majima explained like this made my jaw drop because I could tell they were tired then, but in my mind they just did it because they had nowhere else to go.
So happy someone's actually stating this, imo I think the thing to blame here is the writing, something happens in tojo, people somehow can't figure it out so john yakuza has to step up and make everything better while being conflicted about it ad nauseum. When I first started I found it interesting of how Kiryu's character's conflicted with this desire of living a normal life but also kinda craving the violence and glory the yakuza life brings him. The way Kiryu's an outsider in normal and yakuza society and how there’s this narrative of “you will never know if you made the good decision but you need to push through and live by what you think is right” but it feels like it all falls apart game after game. This thing with "responsibility", where everything is always due and given and how you have to make up for everything even when it’s not your fault is everywhere in the game, but it feels like in making Kiryu this samurai-esque character who can only do good cuz he’s the dragon or some shit makes it so he can never really act of his own or have his hands dirty in anyway. Kiryu’s not responsible for anything and everybody else around him takes the blame and I think it has to do with the way he is written to fit a certain box. This makes him really dislikable to me, we see almost all characters do disgusting shit (cuz they’re yakuzas and troubled people) but no Kiryu has to come out clean each time and needs to be this shonen hero in a crime thriller story. Kiryu’s trying to make his life meaningful and also wants to be a blameless hero and that really makes him turn into a bully imo. Yakuza tackles a lot of hard subjects, have really complex, morally gray characters and Kiryu always coming out clean of whatever plot he’s in just makes him a lukewarm hero and an accidental “complex” character, it’s very much a shame.
Also : On Majima helping Kiryu, I think this was explained by 0 and also a bit in Kiwami 1. I think Kiryu’s philosophy and Majima’s in 0 are very similar, the difference being that nobody really got to help Majima and that his beliefs lead him to ruin his life, and seeing that Kiryu keeps this kind of philosophy and morality besides everything happening to him in “doing what's right” leads him to him being his loyal allie, as if it was a way for Majima to not let somebody go through the same things as he did and prove himself that maybe this kind of thinking didn’t serve him but can serve someone else. And in that I feel Kiryu abuses Majima’s sensitivity (and it makes me mad a little bit lol).
Doing the math sera's and daigo's reigns are actually of similar length so i assume sera's was stable up until 2005
To think Seonhee looks up on Kiryu so much that she went along with Kiryu even with all his flaws where the Geomijul possibly have intel on him including his mistakes in the past like Seonhee mentioned the patricide case back in Yakuza 1/Kiwami 1 on the drink link. Also the song Baka Darou adds the feeling of Kiryu's loneliness and realizes how important his friends are like why the 3Jimas are on it besides Nishiki, Date and even some of Ichiban's party members.
Great watch!
Id love to see like a restart of the story with their current knowledge
Cause a lot of kiryus dumbassness and poor writing comes from the old games and the fact the devs werent as good at writing
For me it is the embodiment of living a life of crime and at the same time trying to honour the dream of someone who was dear to you (same thing of why Ichiban decides to accept the mission in IW) becoming a criminal always leaves this on you a past that won't be errased and will always chase you a good example of that would be mafia 1 where Tommy dies in the end because of his past; that's why he tries to get out of it but at the same time wants to honour Kazama's memory by handling the yakuza like he should've done.
As for how he behaves well some other comment said that it is a trait of depression combined with a lack of self confidence and it makes sense, despite him trying to be happy or move away people who he spent good time with and shared bonds end up being killed, it makes sense on why those things take a toll on him and why he behaves like that, partially is a way of trying to distance himself from people that he cares and IW showed that, there were some exceptions like civilians who bareley know him but to the people who were involved in the yaukuza stuff he didn't want them to become part of it and lose their lives.
This is why his suit is grey for me it represents the kind of morality that he has combined with the things you said in his video; also this is why IW closes his arc where he finally relizes the bad things he did but also realizes that despite all that he had a positive impact on people who bareley know him and that he can also give hope, this is why at the end he rejects his fake name and regains his name, he won't hide anymore and he will be happy.
Interesting character analysis Leon.
PS 1: Despite how much I like the character I don't want another game with him; please RGG just let him be a cameo and pass the torch to Ichiban
This thumbnail is so fire ohmygod/////////
28:25 I love saejima’s back shoots
the goat uploads another hour long video, thank you treating us
I hope you enjoy it!
Great video
While I can't take a big part of the discussion because it's been a while since I played the older tiltes and I'm forgetting a lot of details,I still believe that kiryu's actions aren't just pure hypocrisy and selfishness but rather stems from stupidity and lack of thinking ahead(with good intentions of course).I still remember his fight with akiyama in 6, and I was completely against kiryu for the first time.but again 0 showed us how kiryu is definitely not the type of man who gives things more thought before resorting to his fists.
His internal conflict between honoring kazama's legacy and moving on with his life is what makes him very true to life and believable.
I get your point that we didn't need to see this for as long as we did, but I think we should remember that the stories aren't 100% just about kiryu but other as well.
Also, we should keep in mind real-world reasons where RGG wanted to end his story in 6, but due to the surge of popularity of the series in recent years, we decided not to.
Plus,in regard to majima, I always thought he was gonna get back to the clan at some point for saijima's sake, as seen in 0 and 4.
I'm not trying to justify kiryus actions but we should look at all the facets of his character not just one.
these flaws are what makes kiryu one of my favorite characters in media, if not my favorite ever.
This is just me rambling, so I appreciate your time if you read this.
Again, it's a great video as always, and I can't wait to see more.
I like leon timing to put ads before yakuza 5. Anyway thank you for your wonderful video
I thought it's pretty obvious Kiryu IS a bit of an Hypocritical Selfish character ? and i actually somewhat like him for that very fact because it makes him Human ?
Like him being this extremely flawed actually makes him feel like a real human character instead of your typical good guy only does good things with zero flaws whatsoever.
and Kiryu isn't that character, in every games Karma CONSTANTLY catches up to him because of his past selfish mistakes and the key point is how he tries his best to move on from them all and i think in Gaiden is when it finally reach a point where it nearly broke him mentally, Man almost looked Suicidal :/
I feel like people often only insert his good moments and especially from sub stories and then completely misunderstood him as a good saint which he ain't..
If you simply compile all of the stuff he has done in the past..He's kinda of a selfish hypocrite with an heart to help others in need but also finds a way to constantly escape from his mistakes because he can't handle constant pressure, at least when it comes to not involving fists 24/7.
Kiryu is my favorite video game protagonist not because he's a Good Guy but because he's a very flawed human character while also written to be just as likable and I got a good reason why i put him next to my other favorite video game protagonists like Arthur Morgan,Max Payne, Martin Walker (Spec-ops the line) etc...These are all characters who are in no way "good guys" as they are all incredibly flawed and i like them for that.
The sentence before the last is basically exactly why I made this video. More often than not, I'll just see discussions about the good/hype moments but not so much about the bad, and it gets to a point where people pretend like there is no bad. The point of the video is to show that he's not a perfect character and to also state (in my own personal opinion) that RGG should really move on from having a major focus on Kiryu again because it'll likely just be the same thing as the past 8 games.
@@devilleon7 And I am happy you made this video and opened up this discussion because it may open up peoples eyes and might start to fully understand and appreciate Kiryu with a different lens and not misunderstand him with only the good things he has done.
I still haven't played 8 yet but i do agree with you on RGG really need to move on from Kiryu because he's story is pretty much over .
@@devilleon7 i don’t look at Kiryu’s story as a thing that needs to be ended asap or should have ended years ago. I completely agree with your points about him being a severely flawed character and most of the time not learning from his mistakes, but for me, despite all the emotional endings and the “perfect farewell” of yakuza 6, life goes on DESPITE those decisions.
I look at Yakuza’s world as a representation of real life in the sense that i don’t expect Kiryu to be left alone just because he “died” to protect his kids. There’s always consequences to our choices, there is not a finite ending to life except death, especially if you’re a guy like Kiryu who spent his life involved with several criminal groups and governmental organizations. Someone will always try to exploit him until the day he dies, it’s the life he unintentionally chose.
The main takeaway i have with all of these games is that Kiryu is a guy that is trying his hardest to have a life he can be content with and constantly failing at it because of his past life and his choices, but somehow always pushing through them with his unmatched resolve, until the day he finally dies.
His struggle never ends, and ours doesn’t aswell. That’s why i absolutely LOVE everything about him and what RGG is doing with him. Of course this might be me coping and overthinking about it but accidental or not, Kiryu is my favorite representation of life and i have no problems with him still being the focus of the series
@@mcpires21 really agree on this. I think ending his story with a perfectly happy ever after type of ending will actually diminish his arc throughout the games. It'll be as if after his story ends, he will face no consequences after that. As you said, life goes on and RGG games are always heavily rooted in a similar timeline as our real world. For a person like Kiryu who has so much legacy he left on so many people and organizations he met, life will be unending for him. There's always be hurdles and challenges for him and that, for me, what makes him so human. He has to live to constantly be haunted by his past and be challenged by things over and over again.
Him always struggling to bear the burden of everybody's sin, be a protector while wishing for a peaceful life is what makes a dragon feel human.
@@samuel.jpg.1080p the thing Kiryu values the most are his morals and his definition of justice, and that sometimes means he makes a lot of mistakes as well because of that. This major flaw is one of the several things that makes him human.
On the other hand, it’s also inspirational to see someone so true to himself and what he believes in. We could all aspire to have that same kind of dedication to see justice in this world, but we all know that has it’s consequences not only on others but on ourselves.
Now, Kiryu doesn’t care about what comes next, either good or bad. He always lives in the moment and does what he feels is right at the time because he knows he has the strength to push through it all: that’s the unhealthy part.
He is aware of this aswell, but he can’t help it. He might not have set the right priorities in his mind, but no one can deny that he’s a GREAT man, even those who have been affected by his questionable choices.
Ultimately I believe it’s because they know that no one else would risk their necks like he does for others. So the benefit of being his companion outweighs the danger it brings.
I don’t know, I see it as Kiryu genuinely wanting to move on, but at the same time acknowledging his duty as a friend and as a legendary Yakuza, and always coming back to help. That’s the problem: many fans, and probably RGG, want Kiryu to retire, but they just can’t because of how much of a bad writing it would be to do so, especially now after countless attempts to do so, and because of how great of a protagonist he is. The latter is why they couldn’t even let the cancer kill him.
Hey man if there's no problem can you please give a link to the thumbnail? I wanna use it as a wallpaper. Also great video!
Great video Leon. This is super helpful for people that forget moments throughout the series. Daigo is one of the better characters if you play every game, and did what he could while inheriting a terrible situation. I hope the 'Big 3' crew from IW take back the Yakuza themselves or start their own thing completely, without the depression and excessive fishing.
Unintentional from his perspective, or the writing perspective? Because he is absolutely written to be a hypocrite on purpose, and it isn't even close to bad writing. Since yakuza 3, when the orphanage gets destroyed, his actions have been negatively affecting him and others close to him. In universe, he is never treated as a golden boy by those who have any knowledge of him, only by the characters only familiar with his "legend", but not the guy himself. Him making the same mistakes again and again isn't solely to keep making games about him. Being able to keep putting him in future games is as a consequence of his established character traits, it isn't that they changed who he is to keep putting him in games, unlike what some people seem to think still.
The purpose of your video was to show that kiryu is not a perfect person, and that using him to shit on other characters as if he isn't just as, or even more, flawed than them isn't fair, right? I'm grateful for that; because honestly, even though rgg keeps shoving his flaws in your face every single game, in the most obvious way, there's still people that unironically believe he's perfect, incapable of making mistakes, while people like daigo are shat on for being flawed.
I haven't watched the video in it's entirety, but from the title alone, I feel like this descibes how I feel when starting Kiwami 2.
I mean Daigo LITERALLY calls him out for it.
Greeting's from us Devillion7..!!! We love your stuff..!!! 👌👍🤙
I think all of these is basically Yokoyama not being able to make the characters consistent throughout different games. He just kinda changes them on the whim to fit the narrative and forgets about the things they said in earlier games.
And to hell with Infinite Wealth - this is the culmination of his inability to write consistent stories and willingness to prioritise style over substance as much as possible.
to be honest, this is hardly something that hasn’t been discussed. On Twitter, I see this regurgitated all the time. We get it. It’s a character flaw, but also a product of bad writing. They just refuse to let him be happy, and the only way they know on how to bring him back iso for him to make some self-sacrificing behavior.