Samsung bdie will be remembered fondly in the distant future. People will tell their grandkids stories of how well these memory kits clocked. Or they wont. But its good memories with good memory.
Just getting into the RAM overclocks. I had until recently an Evga Z390 Dark with 9900k Running 16gb Team group pro dark 16-16-16-38? 3600 at 4800+! Can't remember the timings I achieved. Now got the sticks In a Gigabyte Designare 10G / 10980xe and added 2x G skill Royal 3600 16-16-16-38. Managed to get all four sticks up to 4000mhz on this board so far, still tinkering with It. Really enjoying the 10980xe overclocks. Glad I went with it instead of going 12900k because I also find myself In bios more than windows nowadays.
My OG 3200 c14 B die tridentZ has been running from c. 2017... It's now on 3900 c16, without issues. Goes up to 4200, if I'm just goofing around. When I first got it for gen1 Ryzen, it was a pita to get to 3200 on b350. Best investment in computers parts ever made, back before anyone cared about b die and it was cheap. edit. I literally had to check what's it on... It's been sitting happily for so many years... 3cpus, 3mobos and 2GPUs - same sticks of RAM. I'm going to frame these good bois when it's ddr5 time.
People like Nanya and CXMT will probably keep making DDR4, and honestly you'd be surprised - Micron for example still has DDR3 in production even down to 1gbit (they've got to revision J). Regarding availability of b-die, the used market has really taken a turn lately. Lots of very cheap older b-die (and some dual rank samsung e-die) coming up on ebay as people move to new platforms.
Regarding Ripjaws heat spreader, BZ is spot on with his comment on those. I've got a kit with CJR and some of the chips are barely 2/3 covered by the thermal strip, leaving the rest of the chip just bare. Yes, I get that if you want a better spreader you have to go with a Trident, but it appears that the only reason the Ripjaws provides such poor coverage is for no other reason than looks.
Oh good I thought I was the only one. I ordered two kits and the spreaders were in contact with very little. At least getting them off and replacing them was easy.
When 9900K came out I have built my current PC. Got Samsung B-die 16GB G.Skill Trident Z 2x8 GB 3600 CL15 kit. Made sure it was the B-die. Was on the list and that program you could run told me same. Anyhow last month it died. Thinking well it is 3 years in I have no more warranty I've ordered Patriot 4400 CL19 16 GB kit. Went in bios entered XMP value that was 4400 and fired up PC. Instead of 19 21 21 it runs all 19's with 39. That on MSI MEG Z390 Ace with latest BIOS from 11.16.2021. Aida reads chips as Samsung. Anyhow I like them. Still have my MSI RTX2080Ti EK X one that came with EK big waterblock. System is just fine. Runs on water and brings joy and happiness.
I have the same Trident-Z 4x8 GB 3600 CL15 kit but I'm happily running it at 3733 CL13 (but in geardown mode so technically CL14) at 1.48 V in my daily system. They are as stable as rock.
@@daghtus was running easy 4133 cl 17 as stock voltage. Was and is good DDR4 RAM. I have never pushed high voltage into it but it seems I was not that lucky. Man it was expensive to. Same money now gets you 32 GB B-die kit.
@@dudebroguymate Thanks man I now. In local shop, where I got them, I've got an invoice that states 240 months or 20 years warranty hence avoiding life time warranty. Also they require original box to. I have to find it's original box. I should have it and then they will accept RMA.
Corsair Vengeance LPX 4000mhz c16-16-16-36 CMK16GX4M2Z4000C16 on Amazon for $159.99. I have these and they are expensive but good quality. I needed lpx to fit in my old case at the time.
Part of me wants a high bin Viper Steel kit. I used Patriot memory all the way back in the DDR days and loved the stuff. My only problem is that I couldn't even use XMP based on Buildzoids experience with his Intel 12th gen stuff. I'd be shooting for 64GB capacity and he's struggling to get strong results out of any 4 DIMM setup.
I've bought so many of those Patriot Viper Steel 4400mhz kits since you first showed them on your channel and they're AMAZING. The kit I have right now is running with my 5600G at 14-14-14-32 3933mhz 1:1 with the FCLK on a B550-F Strix TOTALLY stable, and I've had it up to 4600mhz at 18-19-19-something before, but didn't really try for that. If you can overclock ram, there is no better value on the market as far as I'm concerned.
Got a 4400 kit on sale a few years back, and used it to learn how timings scale with frequency. I had no clue what I was doing beyond playing with the memory from mb QVL. It was a lot of fun playing around with memtest!
6:42 Patriot VIper 4400 has identical PCB as Team Xtreem 4500. i had them they made in same factory, only difference is heatsink and SPD dump And they are worse than Corsair 3600c14 bin, plus they are inconsistent even stick to stick
Just pulled the trigger on the G.Skill RipjawsV 4000CL16 and on a RipjawsV 3600Cl14, i wonder if the 4000CL16 kit wil run XMP with my Ryzen5 3600 on the X570Ace......
The end of Ballistix will probably mean that Micron will not be making any non-JEDEC DDR5 sticks. Of course other brands will probably make XMP kits with Micron ICs.
Patriot viper steel higher frequency kits are almost definitely always b-die. Just ordered some on a sale, now im just working to get a stable oc on my 3600x
And I cant get my TridentZ RGB 3600 16-16-16-36 to anything like 3800 16 or 3600 14... Tried all kinds of viltages and timings - errors or BSOD with 5 mins of memtest...
I'm curious about Corsair's CMT32GX4M2Z3600C14 SKU. It's 3600/C14, which I was under the impression HAS to be B-die, but there's a review on Newegg from somebody who claims to have taken the heatspreaders off and found C-die instead. There seems to be very little information around on this exact kit and it's suspiciously cheap. Way cheaper than any other 32GB would-be B-die kit, even direct from Corsair.
Rumor I've heard is modern B-Die production is more consistent in clock speed and timing support, hence why there's so many high-spec bins. My understanding is Samsung isn't using it because it is significantly more expensive than C- and D-die, not to mention the 16Gb chips.
Gskill told me in 2020 they didn't make a0 kits anymore since I wanted to get some to match one of my older kits, ended up buying some off ebay instead.
Hynix M is currently the best DDR5 (Hynix use M for 1st revision, A for 2nd, B for 3rd etc). Samsung B-die DDR5 (no relation to the famous DDR4, just the same letter) is second best. Micron A is rubbish, but future Micron DDR5 revisions might (hopefully will) be better. OEM Dell sticks are a great source of Hynix DDR5, otherwise you need to find really high clock kits to be sure of hynix rather than samsung (eg 6400c32 g.skill is supposedly hynix only) The best DDR5 is probably yet to be made though.
@@mickocstreamarchive Hey, thanks for the very detailed input! And yes I agree, we have still a lot to see from new ddr5 dies, just wanted to know where we at
I still managed to get cucked by Teamgroup, one of their “exclusively b-die” kits has a second revision with the EXACT SAME serial number. This bs should be illegal.
Just started overclocking ram (probably very bad at it atm) picked up a 16GTZN 2x16 Trident Z Neo 4000 16-19-19-39 CR2 1.4 b-die kit, so far ive got 4400 16-16-16-32 CR21.5v running Geekbench 3 10900kf with the xii formula
I have not had trouble getting patriot viper steel 4400, i just wish they had 16GB dual rank sticks, even if it can only hit 4200MT/s, i've pushed my kit to 4933CL17 with improved sub timings on my 5700G and i only had to add 0.05v to the memory worked well on both B450 ITX and B550 ITX Edit, i just really wish there was dual rank good B die I dont care if it can only hit 4200CL19-19-19-19-39, dual rank 32GB for an ITX board would be amazing for APUs, 16GB is for the most part too smal of a pool to be sharing between the CPU and GPU
I have a whacky B-die kit (rated 3200-14 1.35) that I maxed stable performance and optimizing it was weird. The best I got it to do with a Zen 3 SoC was 14-13-13-13 3800. I remember tightening the hell out of the subtimings and it wasn't doing much, and then I randomly was like "what if I tried leaving this at 1T and just try to post with meme timings." The kit won't do Cl13 for any reasonable speed no matter what I do. But for some reason it runs 14-13-13-13 and the difference between that and 14-14... was actually quite noticeable in benchmarks. Whaaaaaacky
well b-die cl jump from cl14 to 13 requires more voltage & better cooling(try a fan at it) that the cl jump is kinda pointless, the other timings will make a difference of course. what's your dram volts?
@@emini6 i have plenty of airflow and cooling. More volts can get it lower, but the performance wasn't optimal in real applications. In some benchmarks I can do ridiculously tight and technically get good scores. But those numbers were the best I got for actual performance in the programs I use
My TForce Xtreem (B die) is running a flat 15 @ 3666 Mhz. Never a problem with this 32 GB set except it took a fair amount of dialing to get it to finally take. Has been running this way now for nearly two years.
Gskill trident royal elite gold, 4000Mhz at CL14!!! Wow, imagine giving it slightly more juice and running it at 3800 or 3866 at Cl13 or lucky CL12!!! Insane!!!
I can attest to this. I got 4000 cl16 2x8gb sticks for $150 Cad. not even sure how it was at that price and there was only 1 at the shop but they really are swell.
Yo here in Canada is pretty tough to find some b-die kits even at the big city around classifieds like "Craig's mom's list" for 2yrs checking & looking at vancity CL, I've found myself & got two good deals of gskill tZ neo b-die kits in 3600Mbps 16-16-16-36 1.35v both in 16gb SR(140cad) & 32gb DR(245cad). New'chicken'egg is sadly the only way to get new available b-die kits here, 'meme'express & 'Can'computers had some b-die kits available back then, but recently I think they don't want to restock them or get more..
you have a Twitter, I'm sorry, lol. There are some things that can not be unseen and some things no one should ever be subjected to, and a lot of that resides over there, lol.
B-die in mass production and now even with better quality Best option is Corsair 2x16 3600c14 240$, top quality ic's that can do 4000c14 at 1.56v For comparsion: Royal 4266c17 2021 cant do that, but 2020 Royal 4000c16/4000c17 can. I guess its G.skill scam, top quallity goes to 4000c14/4000c15 now
If anyone sees my comment in the future and is looking for good B-die, do not get the 4400 MT/s from patriot get the 4000 MT/s one (->PVS416G400C6K), it's a better bin and has a good XMP2 profile to start playing with them, 3600-14-16 with some loose secondaries and so on but it's a great starting point. They've even sold the darn thing for 79 USD, just nutty all around and screw GSKILL.
I don't really understand why people are sad about Micron Rev E ending production, especially people on AM4. I mean, yeah, Rev E at some point was hands down the best bang for the buck, but Hynix CJR can achieve lower latency at the frequencies that actually matter on AM4, and it's usually priced very similarly. Your average Hynix DJR kit will usually out-clock your average Rev E kit as well.
sorry if i might be off-topic but i need answers; i recently upgraded to Z690 (asus rog strix Z690-A D4) and i'm using my old TridentZ 3600/CL16 OC'd to 4000/CL15 but i'm getting higher Latency times on Z690 (57-59ns) - and on my old Z390 (ROG XI Apex) same OC settings i'm getting 44-47ns Latency; i wonder why is there such difference in latency ? [tests were made in Aida64extreme]
The only difference between "good enough" b-die sticks like the Flare X 3200 14-14-14 and "high-end" b-die sticks, is that the high-end b-die sticks - particularly the dual-rank ones - will do better RRD_L and WTR_s/L at higher frequencies. As an example then "good enough" dual-rank b-die sticks start requiring WTR_L: 10 or 12 above 3600 MT/s, but high-end dual-rank sticks will do WTR_L: 8 even at 4200 MT/s The high-end sticks also do much lower RDWR/WRRD. Conclusion? The difference between "good enough" and "high-end" is about a 100% increase in price, for lower voltage requirements, VERY mildly (if your memory controller can handle it) better memory latency, and about +5-10% throughput/bandwidth at the same frequency. i.e. +100% price, +4% performance p.s. don't get the ripjaws 2x16 4266 17-18-18 1.5v kit, it's cursed and requires some undisclosed secret sauce to run stable 🤡
Hi, do you have any advice for a DDR5 mobo with i7-12700k on which I will upgrade the RAM in the future using DDR5 that are no longer "immature"? So as optimized as possible for the future.
For those new to Bdie 3600 MHz CL16 is the best the Asus Strix boards z690 can do. I have a 4400 MHzCL16 19 19 19 kit with 4 dimms (boards run fast speeds with 2 sticks) has to do with signal quality, but 4 dims high clocked Bdie are not possible if you manually go buy a Bdie kit
I have the 4400 CL19 Patriot kit, two sets of 2x8Gb and I'm running 1100% MemTest stable at 4000 MHz CL17, all 4 sticks. G1, 2T. On my Strix Z690 + 12900k.
That doesn't sound right, Z690 Strix boards should be able to do much better than that. Have you tried changing ODT settings or SA voltage, or running in Gear 2? Have you tried updating the BIOS?
@@Multimeter1 Not a Z690 problem. It's the same on all platforms, mate. 4x8 and 4x16 configs are really hard to run. Especially if you're using B-die, which puts the most stress on IMCs out of all chips out there. 4x8/4x16 over 4000 MHz B-die is basically impossible to get stable.
I waited for DDR4 price to drop, but I didn't want to wait too long so it becomes scarce (and expensive again) and I just bought a "farewell B-die" kit. A DR 32GB Ripjaws 4000C16 kit. I always settled for jank kits (
3800 14-14-14 is the best you can hope for. It's probably easily achievable with that kit. tRCDRD will definitely go down if you push some voltage through the memory.
@@dudebroguymate 3800 14-15-14 at the moment @ 1.5v. It errors at 1.48v so I'm going to need some extra voltage to take that trcd down, if that's possible. Not going to bother with it with a 3600.. but it's a good kit that I'll keep regardless of it's OCing capabilities :)
I bought a similar kind of Ripjaws kit for $265 (dumbass decision I know) and I'm currently stable on my Z690 Prime-P WIFI D4 with XMP (albeit I need to crank up the SA Voltage to 1.35v and run the DRAM Voltage up to 1.42v). I'll bother with tweaking timings at some point, but I'll wait until I get a decent 140mm fan and replace whatever the hell are the Ripjaws V heat spreaders. Sadly the kit seems to throw post errors past 1.42v for some weird ass reason which I hope is fixed by the aforementioned.
@@GeneralSouthParkFan The heat spreaders don't seem to be contacting the ICs. At least not on my kit. I'd remove them if I didn't care to lose the warranty, so I guess I'll stick a tiny Noctua fan in between them to keep them cool. Mine run at 1.5v and don't throw errors, the only errors I get are due to IMC (can boot with tighter timings but it errors mid-test). They made me realize how great my DJR kit was, lol. 3800cl16 with 65ns latency and 55k read speeds with a R3600.
@@SaarN1337 In that case, I'm really confused as to what the fuck is causing my Ripkjaws kit to through a tantrum when using any VDIMM that's higher or lower than 1.42v. Because it'll suck massive dick if I have basically no wiggle room to increase voltages to increase voltages higher (especially with proper cooling).
i am currently confused on which samsung chip that are good. could somebody explains why samsung B dies are the best for overclockers? like i do use Hynix CJR and DJR, but cant do cl 16 flat, is there a good explanation why does it do really good? Also would ask what fabrication nm is Hynix CJR and DJR?
B-die can both clock high and slam down timings extremely well and it scales well with voltage when you can cool it. CJR/DJR are great budget options for great performance but they won't be up to par with good b-die or micron e-die. Also with CJR/DJR you can't get flat primaries it usually does +2 or +3 from tcl on the other primaries.
@@mikex4941 yeah, both B Dies from samsung and micron (16gbit ones) are pretty much a beast. i do have a patriot viper blackout 3600 c17 xmp, didnt use it yet since still saving to migrate to ddr4, i hope i could do 3800 16-19-19-36 😂
I have that patriot kit and run it at 4200mhz cl17-18-18-32. Got some gskill 4400mhz cl16 16gb on the way. Super long wait for that to get dispatched Tho. Gonna keep myself busy though
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking I have seen the video now. These are too expensive for me. I will keep my current trash kit and buy ddr5 in two years or so.
Aren't you the one that thinks all boards should only have 2 memory slots? Why look at 8GB memory modules in that case? 32GB is the minimum I would install in a system today that isn't for my parents to check email.
I think it was Gskill that teased ddr5 at over 10000 so no, JEDEC is still made to be widely achieved and applicable for bog standard pre built computers, which most are pre made.
i belived that 3200C14 was as good as they get for good bins combined with like 4000/C16 and 4400C17. ohh well, in this country the 4000 and above at good CL´s cost even more than what i payed for my ripjaws 3200/C14´s. And so far i am not directly enoyed with the 3733 @ 15-14-14-32 2T @1,43v. and they are super stable at this speed too. I think they cant go much higher tho, or my aldorlake mem controller may be the issue.
"Samsung B-die getting rarer by the day" Patriot recently released 4000C16 HP released the cheapest 2x16GB 3200C14 kit on the market All the usual G.Skill/Corsair/TeamGroup suspects still readily available Where are these folks looking?
The good ones are going to disappear. The good brands will focus on DDR5 and discontinue the fine kits, and we'll be left with the shittier ones because sure, there are plenty of people \ companies that are still going to rely on ddr4 as replacement parts, but they're not the target of high performance kits. Same thing with ddr3, it's still around, but nothing fancy. Good kit makers make good pcbs, B-die on a mediocre no-name pcb wouldn't be the same
@@nathangamble125 so, fairly good but not the best would you say? I'm running 2x8gb single rank CJR kit - 3700 15-18-20 Thinking about upgrading to 32gb Should I add another CJR kit for 4x8gb Or better get a 2x16gb dual rank B-die kit or something? CJR kits are fairly cheap though Would they be hard to run in 4x8gb?
@@whitemoses7913 CJR is the second best out of the worst memory pile. Ditch that trash and get B-die. The 4400C19 Viper Steel kit is still around $100. You'd be fine with two of those as long as you don't go above 3800 and assuming you have a decent motherboard.
@@whitemoses7913 I would advise against 4x8 if possible. 2x16 is much easier to work with. You’re looking at 3800 14-14-14 w/ 1.5V if you get a good kit or 3800 16-16-16 w/ 1.45V to 1.5V if you get something like 3200 14-14-14.
Personally I would be if I got out of my way to get b-die just to get worse performance than CJR/DJR or Micron E-Die when tightened. Unless you're running bad bins and IC's, 3200 cl16 is relatively slow. But anyways you won't notice much in real usage anyways so I guess that's fair enough.
Z390 boards from Asus were by far worst I have seen with B die. I have a z390 asus hero board and I can't run 3600mhz with Samsung B die memory. With same memory I have people with msi z390 can take them above 4000mhz.
lmao about the Patriot Vipers 4400 not being good if you don't know how to memory OC. haha Also, YES. Inconsistent. Some good kits, some mediocre in my opinion.
Since you are the RAM and motherboard guru, can you make a video each week on specific RAM and motherboard recommendations and their links. A list of the top 10 recommended items for performance, value, and budget categories. That way even if one is sold out, there are successive options. And you can explain why you are recommending these items. Do put time stamps so it would be easier to research what to buy. Since price and stock varies, doing a video every week and including 10 choices in each category should be plenty for availability.
for 180$ you can get G Skill 4000mhz 15-16-16. not a lot of people know the difference between low quality bin vs high. and for those that do, even a smaller percentage will have the know-how to alter timings. good B die is going to be around for a hot minute.
@@jake20479 Depends on your luck. The 4400C19 GTZKK is a better bin and should perform better but there’s a lot of inconsistency unit to unit for B-die.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Samsung bdie will be remembered fondly in the distant future. People will tell their grandkids stories of how well these memory kits clocked. Or they wont. But its good memories with good memory.
I'm definitely telling my grandkids about B-die, whether they want to hear it or not.
DDR4 (4Gb!) is also still in use on m.2 SSDs for caching purposes, including things like Micron D9XFJ and SK Hynix BJR
Just getting into the RAM overclocks. I had until recently an Evga Z390 Dark with 9900k Running 16gb Team group pro dark 16-16-16-38? 3600 at 4800+! Can't remember the timings I achieved. Now got the sticks In a Gigabyte Designare 10G / 10980xe and added 2x G skill Royal 3600 16-16-16-38. Managed to get all four sticks up to 4000mhz on this board so far, still tinkering with It. Really enjoying the 10980xe overclocks. Glad I went with it instead of going 12900k because I also find myself In bios more than windows nowadays.
My OG 3200 c14 B die tridentZ has been running from c. 2017... It's now on 3900 c16, without issues. Goes up to 4200, if I'm just goofing around. When I first got it for gen1 Ryzen, it was a pita to get to 3200 on b350. Best investment in computers parts ever made, back before anyone cared about b die and it was cheap.
edit. I literally had to check what's it on... It's been sitting happily for so many years... 3cpus, 3mobos and 2GPUs - same sticks of RAM. I'm going to frame these good bois when it's ddr5 time.
Your voice is so soothing, I could fall asleep listening to you talk about the length of every individual piece of silicon in a cpu.
Thanks a ton for what you do for the community.
People like Nanya and CXMT will probably keep making DDR4, and honestly you'd be surprised - Micron for example still has DDR3 in production even down to 1gbit (they've got to revision J).
Regarding availability of b-die, the used market has really taken a turn lately. Lots of very cheap older b-die (and some dual rank samsung e-die) coming up on ebay as people move to new platforms.
Regarding Ripjaws heat spreader, BZ is spot on with his comment on those. I've got a kit with CJR and some of the chips are barely 2/3 covered by the thermal strip, leaving the rest of the chip just bare. Yes, I get that if you want a better spreader you have to go with a Trident, but it appears that the only reason the Ripjaws provides such poor coverage is for no other reason than looks.
Oh good I thought I was the only one. I ordered two kits and the spreaders were in contact with very little. At least getting them off and replacing them was easy.
Just upgraded to Patriot 4400 19-19-19-39 kit. It was 150 usd in russia, manufactured w5 2021
When 9900K came out I have built my current PC. Got Samsung B-die 16GB G.Skill Trident Z 2x8 GB 3600 CL15 kit. Made sure it was the B-die. Was on the list and that program you could run told me same. Anyhow last month it died. Thinking well it is 3 years in I have no more warranty I've ordered Patriot 4400 CL19 16 GB kit. Went in bios entered XMP value that was 4400 and fired up PC. Instead of 19 21 21 it runs all 19's with 39. That on MSI MEG Z390 Ace with latest BIOS from 11.16.2021. Aida reads chips as Samsung. Anyhow I like them. Still have my MSI RTX2080Ti EK X one that came with EK big waterblock. System is just fine. Runs on water and brings joy and happiness.
I have the same Trident-Z 4x8 GB 3600 CL15 kit but I'm happily running it at 3733 CL13 (but in geardown mode so technically CL14) at 1.48 V in my daily system. They are as stable as rock.
RAM has lifetime warranty.
@@daghtus was running easy 4133 cl 17 as stock voltage. Was and is good DDR4 RAM. I have never pushed high voltage into it but it seems I was not that lucky. Man it was expensive to. Same money now gets you 32 GB B-die kit.
@@dudebroguymate Thanks man I now. In local shop, where I got them, I've got an invoice that states 240 months or 20 years warranty hence avoiding life time warranty. Also they require original box to. I have to find it's original box. I should have it and then they will accept RMA.
Hmm maybe you pushed beyond 1.5v which only makes sense if you have a fan on top of the sticks that's why they died relatively quickly.
DDR4000 16-16-16-36 is everywhere these days. That's Bdie folks.
Corsair Vengeance LPX 4000mhz c16-16-16-36 CMK16GX4M2Z4000C16 on Amazon for $159.99. I have these and they are expensive but good quality. I needed lpx to fit in my old case at the time.
B-dies are the unicorn of Samsung. It will be last one to go out of production.
My 4133 viper steel b-die is pretty good IMO, got it second hand for 63.37, does better then my flare X kit i got for 93.28
Part of me wants a high bin Viper Steel kit. I used Patriot memory all the way back in the DDR days and loved the stuff. My only problem is that I couldn't even use XMP based on Buildzoids experience with his Intel 12th gen stuff. I'd be shooting for 64GB capacity and he's struggling to get strong results out of any 4 DIMM setup.
I've bought so many of those Patriot Viper Steel 4400mhz kits since you first showed them on your channel and they're AMAZING. The kit I have right now is running with my 5600G at 14-14-14-32 3933mhz 1:1 with the FCLK on a B550-F Strix TOTALLY stable, and I've had it up to 4600mhz at 18-19-19-something before, but didn't really try for that. If you can overclock ram, there is no better value on the market as far as I'm concerned.
Got a 4400 kit on sale a few years back, and used it to learn how timings scale with frequency. I had no clue what I was doing beyond playing with the memory from mb QVL. It was a lot of fun playing around with memtest!
6:42 Patriot VIper 4400 has identical PCB as Team Xtreem 4500. i had them
they made in same factory, only difference is heatsink and SPD dump
And they are worse than Corsair 3600c14 bin, plus they are inconsistent even stick to stick
Just pulled the trigger on the G.Skill RipjawsV 4000CL16 and on a RipjawsV 3600Cl14, i wonder if the 4000CL16 kit wil run XMP with my Ryzen5 3600 on the X570Ace......
The end of Ballistix will probably mean that Micron will not be making any non-JEDEC DDR5 sticks. Of course other brands will probably make XMP kits with Micron ICs.
thats sad to see since cruical could sell their kits with their own micron chips and make it much cheaper than others
Patriot viper steel higher frequency kits are almost definitely always b-die. Just ordered some on a sale, now im just working to get a stable oc on my 3600x
This stuff is just gold. Yesterday my new G-Skill Trident Z Neo 16-16-16-36 3600mhz kit reached 14-14-14-28 stable with 43.6 procODT and 1.45V.
And I cant get my TridentZ RGB 3600 16-16-16-36 to anything like 3800 16 or 3600 14... Tried all kinds of viltages and timings - errors or BSOD with 5 mins of memtest...
I do think B-die is getting used less, which is sad, but as long as it's available in multiple bins, it's not the end of an era.
I'm curious about Corsair's CMT32GX4M2Z3600C14 SKU. It's 3600/C14, which I was under the impression HAS to be B-die, but there's a review on Newegg from somebody who claims to have taken the heatspreaders off and found C-die instead. There seems to be very little information around on this exact kit and it's suspiciously cheap. Way cheaper than any other 32GB would-be B-die kit, even direct from Corsair.
I got the 16gb version of this kit, two of them actually. I overclocked it from 3600 14-16-16-36 to 3800 14-14-14-34, b die I believe. Running 4x8gb
Rumor I've heard is modern B-Die production is more consistent in clock speed and timing support, hence why there's so many high-spec bins. My understanding is Samsung isn't using it because it is significantly more expensive than C- and D-die, not to mention the 16Gb chips.
Gskill told me in 2020 they didn't make a0 kits anymore since I wanted to get some to match one of my older kits, ended up buying some off ebay instead.
So thats why a lot of the micron higher end 32 and 64GB kits were on like 40% sale recently, didnt know that they stopped the production
3600 cl14 I just oced thanks to your videos, was only running xmp till now
Strongly need your professional help🙌🏻 What memory settings help achieve CR1 except voltages?
There was only news about end of production crucial ballistix memory, i don't saw any news about end of production any ddr4 chips
For ddr4 samsung b-dies are considered best. Similarly, what is the best die for ddr5?
Hynix M is currently the best DDR5 (Hynix use M for 1st revision, A for 2nd, B for 3rd etc). Samsung B-die DDR5 (no relation to the famous DDR4, just the same letter) is second best. Micron A is rubbish, but future Micron DDR5 revisions might (hopefully will) be better.
OEM Dell sticks are a great source of Hynix DDR5, otherwise you need to find really high clock kits to be sure of hynix rather than samsung (eg 6400c32 g.skill is supposedly hynix only)
The best DDR5 is probably yet to be made though.
@@mickocstreamarchive Hey, thanks for the very detailed input! And yes I agree, we have still a lot to see from new ddr5 dies, just wanted to know where we at
Most interesting part of this video for me was your comment about Aida being a garbage benchmark, any details on that?
Trying to decide between 4x 8gb patriot 4400 or some 2x 16gb b-die atm
I still managed to get cucked by Teamgroup, one of their “exclusively b-die” kits has a second revision with the EXACT SAME serial number. This bs should be illegal.
Just started overclocking ram (probably very bad at it atm) picked up a 16GTZN 2x16 Trident Z Neo 4000 16-19-19-39 CR2 1.4 b-die kit, so far ive got 4400 16-16-16-32 CR21.5v running Geekbench 3
10900kf with the xii formula
Micron had a 2x16 kit for $95 is I got 2 of them. Got them to do 16-19-19-19-38 at 3800. Perfect for ryzen
That's decent.
@@dudebroguymate not bad for me8
I have not had trouble getting patriot viper steel 4400, i just wish they had 16GB dual rank sticks, even if it can only hit 4200MT/s, i've pushed my kit to 4933CL17 with improved sub timings on my 5700G and i only had to add 0.05v to the memory worked well on both B450 ITX and B550 ITX
Edit, i just really wish there was dual rank good B die I dont care if it can only hit 4200CL19-19-19-19-39, dual rank 32GB for an ITX board would be amazing for APUs, 16GB is for the most part too smal of a pool to be sharing between the CPU and GPU
I have a whacky B-die kit (rated 3200-14 1.35) that I maxed stable performance and optimizing it was weird. The best I got it to do with a Zen 3 SoC was 14-13-13-13 3800. I remember tightening the hell out of the subtimings and it wasn't doing much, and then I randomly was like "what if I tried leaving this at 1T and just try to post with meme timings." The kit won't do Cl13 for any reasonable speed no matter what I do. But for some reason it runs 14-13-13-13 and the difference between that and 14-14... was actually quite noticeable in benchmarks.
Whaaaaaacky
well b-die cl jump from cl14 to 13 requires more voltage & better cooling(try a fan at it) that the cl jump is kinda pointless, the other timings will make a difference of course.
what's your dram volts?
@@emini6 i have plenty of airflow and cooling. More volts can get it lower, but the performance wasn't optimal in real applications. In some benchmarks I can do ridiculously tight and technically get good scores. But those numbers were the best I got for actual performance in the programs I use
My TForce Xtreem (B die) is running a flat 15 @ 3666 Mhz. Never a problem with this 32 GB set except it took a fair amount of dialing to get it to finally take. Has been running this way now for nearly two years.
Patriot on samsung b-die is cheaper than hynix djr?
I got 2 kits of GSkill 3200Mhz CL14 (4 dimms -- 64 GB total). I managed to overclock them stable @3600Mhz CL14.
vDIMM?
Gskill trident royal elite gold, 4000Mhz at CL14!!! Wow, imagine giving it slightly more juice and running it at 3800 or 3866 at Cl13 or lucky CL12!!! Insane!!!
I can attest to this. I got 4000 cl16 2x8gb sticks for $150 Cad. not even sure how it was at that price and there was only 1 at the shop but they really are swell.
Yo here in Canada is pretty tough to find some b-die kits even at the big city around classifieds like "Craig's mom's list" for 2yrs checking & looking at vancity CL, I've found myself & got two good deals of gskill tZ neo b-die kits in 3600Mbps 16-16-16-36 1.35v both in 16gb SR(140cad) & 32gb DR(245cad). New'chicken'egg is sadly the only way to get new available b-die kits here, 'meme'express & 'Can'computers had some b-die kits available back then, but recently I think they don't want to restock them or get more..
@@emini6 amazon still has Patriot steels and some other ones.
Do you think it's worthwhile to try to get a 4000c16 b-die kit (2x16gb DR) over say 3600c14?
c14 corsair vengeance bdie anygood? still a little confused about the diff between ram with higher mhz and lower timings
you have a Twitter, I'm sorry, lol. There are some things that can not be unseen and some things no one should ever be subjected to, and a lot of that resides over there, lol.
I have a oloy B-die 3600 MHz 14 14 14 34 I want to overclock it , what is the right speed and time I should overclock them?
B-die in mass production and now even with better quality
Best option is Corsair 2x16 3600c14 240$, top quality ic's that can do 4000c14 at 1.56v
For comparsion: Royal 4266c17 2021 cant do that, but 2020 Royal 4000c16/4000c17 can. I guess its G.skill scam, top quallity goes to 4000c14/4000c15 now
If anyone sees my comment in the future and is looking for good B-die, do not get the 4400 MT/s from patriot get the 4000 MT/s one (->PVS416G400C6K), it's a better bin and has a good XMP2 profile to start playing with them, 3600-14-16 with some loose secondaries and so on but it's a great starting point. They've even sold the darn thing for 79 USD, just nutty all around and screw GSKILL.
I have the flare-x 4x8 at 3600 cl14. I'm happy with it.
I bought two 16gb 4000c15 kits to run on my x299. Opinion ?
I don't really understand why people are sad about Micron Rev E ending production, especially people on AM4. I mean, yeah, Rev E at some point was hands down the best bang for the buck, but Hynix CJR can achieve lower latency at the frequencies that actually matter on AM4, and it's usually priced very similarly. Your average Hynix DJR kit will usually out-clock your average Rev E kit as well.
sorry if i might be off-topic but i need answers;
i recently upgraded to Z690 (asus rog strix Z690-A D4)
and i'm using my old TridentZ 3600/CL16 OC'd to 4000/CL15 but i'm getting higher Latency times on Z690 (57-59ns) - and on my old Z390 (ROG XI Apex) same OC settings i'm getting 44-47ns Latency;
i wonder why is there such difference in latency ?
[tests were made in Aida64extreme]
the new memory controller has more latency.
do you recommend some settings for low latency or is this just the way it works?
3200 14-14-14 is based and B-die pilled
The only difference between "good enough" b-die sticks like the Flare X 3200 14-14-14 and "high-end" b-die sticks, is that the high-end b-die sticks - particularly the dual-rank ones - will do better RRD_L and WTR_s/L at higher frequencies.
As an example then "good enough" dual-rank b-die sticks start requiring WTR_L: 10 or 12 above 3600 MT/s, but high-end dual-rank sticks will do WTR_L: 8 even at 4200 MT/s
The high-end sticks also do much lower RDWR/WRRD.
Conclusion?
The difference between "good enough" and "high-end" is about a 100% increase in price, for lower voltage requirements, VERY mildly (if your memory controller can handle it) better memory latency, and about +5-10% throughput/bandwidth at the same frequency.
i.e. +100% price, +4% performance
p.s. don't get the ripjaws 2x16 4266 17-18-18 1.5v kit, it's cursed and requires some undisclosed secret sauce to run stable 🤡
Ot
Hi, do you have any advice for a DDR5 mobo with i7-12700k on which I will upgrade the RAM in the future using DDR5 that are no longer "immature"? So as optimized as possible for the future.
Nice video. Good to hear that sammy is still making 8Gbit BDie. Also I'm first
For those new to Bdie 3600 MHz CL16 is the best the Asus Strix boards z690 can do. I have a 4400 MHzCL16 19 19 19 kit with 4 dimms (boards run fast speeds with 2 sticks) has to do with signal quality, but 4 dims high clocked Bdie are not possible if you manually go buy a Bdie kit
I have the 4400 CL19 Patriot kit, two sets of 2x8Gb and I'm running 1100% MemTest stable at 4000 MHz CL17, all 4 sticks. G1, 2T. On my Strix Z690 + 12900k.
That doesn't sound right, Z690 Strix boards should be able to do much better than that. Have you tried changing ODT settings or SA voltage, or running in Gear 2? Have you tried updating the BIOS?
@@MrSamuelspark exactly *2 sticks* go buy two more and watch what happens
@@nathangamble125 Nope. 4 sticks cannot run at 4266 MHz on z690 for example or 4400 MHz
@@Multimeter1 Not a Z690 problem. It's the same on all platforms, mate. 4x8 and 4x16 configs are really hard to run. Especially if you're using B-die, which puts the most stress on IMCs out of all chips out there. 4x8/4x16 over 4000 MHz B-die is basically impossible to get stable.
2x16gb 4400c17-18-18 Is my go to DR B-Die, 4000c14 was overpriced and is now OOS in the US
Buildzoid and I ARE best friends :)
I waited for DDR4 price to drop, but I didn't want to wait too long so it becomes scarce (and expensive again) and I just bought a "farewell B-die" kit. A DR 32GB Ripjaws 4000C16 kit.
I always settled for jank kits (
3800 14-14-14 is the best you can hope for. It's probably easily achievable with that kit. tRCDRD will definitely go down if you push some voltage through the memory.
@@dudebroguymate 3800 14-15-14 at the moment @ 1.5v. It errors at 1.48v so I'm going to need some extra voltage to take that trcd down, if that's possible.
Not going to bother with it with a 3600.. but it's a good kit that I'll keep regardless of it's OCing capabilities :)
I bought a similar kind of Ripjaws kit for $265 (dumbass decision I know) and I'm currently stable on my Z690 Prime-P WIFI D4 with XMP (albeit I need to crank up the SA Voltage to 1.35v and run the DRAM Voltage up to 1.42v). I'll bother with tweaking timings at some point, but I'll wait until I get a decent 140mm fan and replace whatever the hell are the Ripjaws V heat spreaders.
Sadly the kit seems to throw post errors past 1.42v for some weird ass reason which I hope is fixed by the aforementioned.
@@GeneralSouthParkFan The heat spreaders don't seem to be contacting the ICs. At least not on my kit.
I'd remove them if I didn't care to lose the warranty, so I guess I'll stick a tiny Noctua fan in between them to keep them cool.
Mine run at 1.5v and don't throw errors, the only errors I get are due to IMC (can boot with tighter timings but it errors mid-test).
They made me realize how great my DJR kit was, lol. 3800cl16 with 65ns latency and 55k read speeds with a R3600.
@@SaarN1337 In that case, I'm really confused as to what the fuck is causing my Ripkjaws kit to through a tantrum when using any VDIMM that's higher or lower than 1.42v. Because it'll suck massive dick if I have basically no wiggle room to increase voltages to increase voltages higher (especially with proper cooling).
legends never die ....
it is said that intel 13th cpu still contain ddr4 memory controller , so i think ddr4 will keep alive in future 2 years.
i am currently confused on which samsung chip that are good. could somebody explains why samsung B dies are the best for overclockers? like i do use Hynix CJR and DJR, but cant do cl 16 flat, is there a good explanation why does it do really good? Also would ask what fabrication nm is Hynix CJR and DJR?
B-die can both clock high and slam down timings extremely well and it scales well with voltage when you can cool it. CJR/DJR are great budget options for great performance but they won't be up to par with good b-die or micron e-die. Also with CJR/DJR you can't get flat primaries it usually does +2 or +3 from tcl on the other primaries.
@@mikex4941 yeah, both B Dies from samsung and micron (16gbit ones) are pretty much a beast. i do have a patriot viper blackout 3600 c17 xmp, didnt use it yet since still saving to migrate to ddr4, i hope i could do 3800 16-19-19-36 😂
I have that patriot kit and run it at 4200mhz cl17-18-18-32. Got some gskill 4400mhz cl16 16gb on the way. Super long wait for that to get dispatched Tho. Gonna keep myself busy though
Aliexpress has some 4000 CL16 B-die chips VERY CHEAP, check for ASGARD 4000 Cl16.
What would you recommend for out of the box performance. not crazy manual oc. Using 5600x
Hes got a ram to buy list video, just get a pair of crucial ballistix 3600 cl16 and be done w it
YUP, i just picked up a bunch of 3200CL14 GS stuff. At $80 a kit at that.
Is there 16gb per stick bdie? I maen they could have 16 chips per stick but I can't find any. I have an itx system and need the higher memory density.
watch the rest of the video
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking Okay, I will do that.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking I have seen the video now. These are too expensive for me. I will keep my current trash kit and buy ddr5 in two years or so.
Can someone tell my what 2400 MT/s cl15 4gb from which memory chip company is ?
Can be anything.
Who makes the best DDR5 chips right now?
Hynix
currently ddr4 highend kits beat ddr5 anyways. specially in mode 1 if u have a 5067 cl20 kit
Aren't you the one that thinks all boards should only have 2 memory slots? Why look at 8GB memory modules in that case? 32GB is the minimum I would install in a system today that isn't for my parents to check email.
My apologies, I hadn't gotten to the point where you look at 16GB sticks yet.
i am in a moment of panic, is 3600 c14-16-16-36 guaranteed bdie? thanks
yes it is
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking thank you! it was a life or death situation
Bdie, Bdie everywhere!
JEDEC DDR5 up to 8400? I'd be happy to see XMP go away completely if future JEDEC specs are actually decent.
I think it was Gskill that teased ddr5 at over 10000 so no, JEDEC is still made to be widely achieved and applicable for bog standard pre built computers, which most are pre made.
@@alexmills1329 I'd still prefer to have higher performance standard specs than to have an easy way to apply out of spec profiles
I like buying 3200 cl14 and cranking 1.38v and running 3600 and amd loves it
i belived that 3200C14 was as good as they get for good bins combined with like 4000/C16 and 4400C17.
ohh well, in this country the 4000 and above at good CL´s cost even more than what i payed for my ripjaws 3200/C14´s. And so far i am not directly enoyed with the 3733 @ 15-14-14-32 2T @1,43v.
and they are super stable at this speed too. I think they cant go much higher tho, or my aldorlake mem controller may be the issue.
nah 3200 CL14 is a total lottery bin.
You should promote your Twitter more often
"Samsung B-die getting rarer by the day"
Patriot recently released 4000C16
HP released the cheapest 2x16GB 3200C14 kit on the market
All the usual G.Skill/Corsair/TeamGroup suspects still readily available
Where are these folks looking?
Some think that the second DDR5 got used by a CPU, every major producer just switched from DDR4 to DDR5 on every fab
@@Tomart0 🤣🤣🤣
The good ones are going to disappear. The good brands will focus on DDR5 and discontinue the fine kits, and we'll be left with the shittier ones because sure, there are plenty of people \ companies that are still going to rely on ddr4 as replacement parts, but they're not the target of high performance kits. Same thing with ddr3, it's still around, but nothing fancy.
Good kit makers make good pcbs, B-die on a mediocre no-name pcb wouldn't be the same
A bunch of reviewers were pronouncing ballistix as "ball sticks".
Also maybe Micron simply no longer likes the idea of "ballistics" as a brand name.
Is Hynix CJR any good?
It's probably the next best thing after B-die, E-die, 16Gb Rev B, and 8Gb Rev E.
@@nathangamble125 so, fairly good but not the best would you say?
I'm running 2x8gb single rank CJR kit - 3700 15-18-20
Thinking about upgrading to 32gb
Should I add another CJR kit for 4x8gb
Or better get a 2x16gb dual rank B-die kit or something?
CJR kits are fairly cheap though
Would they be hard to run in 4x8gb?
@@whitemoses7913 CJR is the second best out of the worst memory pile. Ditch that trash and get B-die. The 4400C19 Viper Steel kit is still around $100. You'd be fine with two of those as long as you don't go above 3800 and assuming you have a decent motherboard.
@@dudebroguymate Samsung B-Die in 4*8gb, would that be hard to run? Not gonna above 3800. What kind of timings / voltage are we talking about here?
@@whitemoses7913 I would advise against 4x8 if possible. 2x16 is much easier to work with.
You’re looking at 3800 14-14-14 w/ 1.5V if you get a good kit or 3800 16-16-16 w/ 1.45V to 1.5V if you get something like 3200 14-14-14.
So are micron e-dies any good? I got a kit of 2x16gb micron dual rank e-die rated at 3600 C16 for 150$ 😅
16gb of Viper 4000 16-16-16-36 is $93 on Amazon. Definitely not rare.
Oh my god people are still going around spreading this BS about b-die being eol???
I just bought 2x16GB of OEM B-die for 85 shipped :D, I'm not gonna be disapointed even if it can only reach 3200c16
Personally I would be if I got out of my way to get b-die just to get worse performance than CJR/DJR or Micron E-Die when tightened. Unless you're running bad bins and IC's, 3200 cl16 is relatively slow. But anyways you won't notice much in real usage anyways so I guess that's fair enough.
ADATA XPG V1/2 DDR3-800-2400Mhz
b-die samsung
rock as a58m
5600k 4,4.45Ghz
500w bs
1tblue
What's the best automated oc utility asus or intel?
long live Samsung B Die
Most of this is over $200 now it seems.
It's just a guy trolling so that he can sell bdie to the plebs at a higher price.
Z390 boards from Asus were by far worst I have seen with B die. I have a z390 asus hero board and I can't run 3600mhz with Samsung B die memory. With same memory I have people with msi z390 can take them above 4000mhz.
Samsung stuck on DDR4? No wonder Hynix is kicking their heinie 😆
lmao about the Patriot Vipers 4400 not being good if you don't know how to memory OC. haha
Also, YES. Inconsistent. Some good kits, some mediocre in my opinion.
Weird that people think it matters what name is on it...
Since you are the RAM and motherboard guru, can you make a video each week on specific RAM and motherboard recommendations and their links. A list of the top 10 recommended items for performance, value, and budget categories. That way even if one is sold out, there are successive options. And you can explain why you are recommending these items. Do put time stamps so it would be easier to research what to buy. Since price and stock varies, doing a video every week and including 10 choices in each category should be plenty for availability.
for 180$ you can get G Skill 4000mhz 15-16-16.
not a lot of people know the difference between low quality bin vs high. and for those that do, even a smaller percentage will have the know-how to alter timings. good B die is going to be around for a hot minute.
Aren't those 1.5V kits? Not that great if you ask me. You can get the 4400 19-19-19 1.4V kits from G.Skill at around that price.
@@dudebroguymate i believe the 15-16-16 kit will do 4400 with tighter timings.
@@jake20479 Depends on your luck. The 4400C19 GTZKK is a better bin and should perform better but there’s a lot of inconsistency unit to unit for B-die.
Well, this aged poorly
i think all other 8Gb ICs short cease production, b-die is just better, simples. spend the e waste ICs on DDR5
Third.