I think your math is a bit flawed. The main driver for expensive monorails is land purchases and legal work for the expansion. Neither of which Disney would have an issue with in the Walt Disney world park. I get what you're going for but if your math is only inflating public work projects you miss the true costs and benefits of a private monorail system. This is not to say it makes financial sense to expand the current Disney system but using your method doesn't really give us an idea of the true cost of ownership.
Not to mention that Disney wouldn't necessarily have to put out the project and all of its various construction aspects out for bid (although I wouldn't be surprised if they did anyway just to drive prices down). Concrete is cheap, especially for large projects like these, and it's likely they could pre-fab most of the track components off-site and ship them in to be craned into place (which reduces labor costs and construction time). I'd say a more reasonable estimate would be about $5-10 million per mile, since land acquisition, zoning, and design aren't involved. It's also worth noting that pads for track to MGM/HS were laid during the park's initial construction, but the line was cancelled before they built the towers and track.
@@factorone Do you have a source or anywhere to find information about the pads they laid out for the monorail that was supposed to go to MGM/HS? I'm curious.
Here's the one thing about your second argument. Yes, I agree the monorail isn't the best form of transportation in a practical sense. However, there's something about stepping foot on the monorail, smelling the faint plastic interior and foreign tourists and riding high on the track with the impeccable views. Part of the awe of monorails is that it is an exciting experience in itself.
I'll counter this with the condition the monorails are in. In a word, poor. They are run down, they often smell bad, and that's if they're working. They stall relatively frequently and sometimes run with a door open. It's an outdated form of transportation from a generation or so ago. While I personally like the monorail, they need to fix what's wrong before they decide to expand
@@averytatavitto9333 the current rail cars are from 1989 using the Mark VI trains. They are outdated but with an upgrade to newer trains would make a huge difference. There were talks about possible upgrading to newer trains. Still think the monorail is a great form of transportation.
This comes up on various "Build more Monorails" debates I have read over the years. Enclosed pods carrying 6 to 8 people running on a network of tracks with stations where you pullover so things don't get backed up. Heathrow has a system like this. West Virginia University has even an older system. ruclips.net/video/iaSaWfw07Sw/видео.html
Why not a elevated roadway for Autonomous electric vehicles? cdn0.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2018/05/Boring-Company-Loop-hed-2-796x419.jpg
Why not extend the Big Thunder Mountain track a bit? Longest rollercoaster ride in the world _and_ an efficient way to get from one park to another... Genius! :)
My wife and I regularly take the Walt Disney bus as we stay on Disney grounds. It's not that bad; just remember that it takes an hour via bus to get from one point to another and you will be fine. BTW: If you venture off Disney grounds and use the Orlando LYNX bus the difference is a major jolt.
An hour! Yes, an hour! This is what frustrated me the most about the buses. If we had to change plans or directions, it often meant a 2 hour round trip. On our last trip, I had to run back to the room to get something for the kids and it took me over an hour to get from Disney Springs to Riverside. I got in the car and drove back in 5 minutes (less than 2 miles)! An hour on the bus was an hour less that I was spending money in the parks/stores.
I find that a car is just as frustrating, is expensive and can be time consuming since you have to park then walk to ride to your final destination via the transit lines. A long time ago I learned that I am on vacation. That means that I should vacate and shun prior activities, including worries. It is what it is. Might as well slow down and enjoy the view along the way. I have also learned to enjoy where I am at. Disney has a lot of beauty and "eye candy" to see wherever you are.
Here's the thing though: people don't like buses. They're thought of as dirty, slow, unreliable, and the opposite of "futuristic". While there's technically nothing ecologically wrong with electric automated buses of the future, it seems like it goes against the grain for Disney. We are after all talking about a set of theme parks that do a lot of unnecessary and seemingly impractical things all for the aesthetic guest experience. So I think the counter-argument would be that it's a step away from the sense of Disney magic and attention to detail. The gondolas do seem like a good compromise though.
"They're thought of as dirty, slow, unreliable, and the opposite of "futuristic"." And not without reason either, at least with the buses they currently use. Dirty: There are bus manufacturers that build BEV buses and they're already in use in some networks (Asheville's ART is one of them), but your typical Disney buses are older diesel-powered models. To really be able to shake this they'd have to completely rework their fleet and supporting infrastructure. Slow: While buses aren't necessarily actually any slower than the monorail in terms of actual performance, they still have to interact with traffic and that can hold them up. Additionally, they generally have to stick to public roads, which means they can't always take the most direct route. Unreliable: I mean, they're not necessarily more unreliable than any other IC powered vehicles, but they're far more prone to mechanical failure than an electric powered monorail.
uncriticalsimon Well if you had a low ball shady contractor & not accounting for an ocean rail... you’d be looking at about 1/2 a trillion dollars 😂🙌 I’m saying there’s a chance!
Built over undeveloped land which is already owned, a concrete monorail shouldn't cost even 1/10th that price. $15152 per linear foot when steel rail siding runs $375? Are you kidding me? Materials for a pair of tracks is about $70, which is much less than the cost of steel rail.
I agree. I posted a comment that the costs couldnt be nearly that high, considering Disney doesnt have to worry about right of way, real estate, or impact fees.
In addition, it would be easy for them to build a pre-stressed concrete factory of their own, on site, and construct the spans and columns. Really only leaves the reinforcing steel that would have to be supplied by outside sources.
They already offer a six-park hopper pass. It is called the Disney Premier Passport and, as of December 2018, it costs $1439 plus sales tax. The Premier Passport is the ultimate 'golden ticket' to Disney magic. You'll enjoy unlimited admission to everything the Disneyland and Walt Disney World Resorts have to offer, including the Theme Parks, Water Parks, etc.
If the WDW monorail were an automobile, most stares, if not all, would classify them as classic, or even antiques. They’re THAT old. And the “new” monorail trains still qualify, since they are still the same model, and built from salvaged models. Anyone who has any experience with classic, or even vintage vehicles knows that they are not reliable and require a lot more maintenance.
Financially wise or not, the Monorail is one of the icons of WDW. It’d be a total win for them to extend the line. Perhaps once the high speed rail line is built between Tampa and Orlando they could extend the Monorail to a “Disney” stop for the rail line. Rumored years ago when high speed rail was first considered was a stop in Celebration I believe.
Monorail is sure an icon of Disney. I would love to be able to take it to all the main parks, it would be so much more convenient. It runs wary more frequently than the buses and holds way more people too.
It has ALWAYS bothered me that they didn't keep the resort area more centralized. Why did they insist on expanding each park and hotel into random corners of the property. I think that reflects a lack of master-planning of the Resort as a whole, something which Walt would have wanted. Had they kept everything more centralized they would have maximized the use of space and been able to run monorails to more places.
i don't understand why they don't have internal roads to get from parks to resorts and instead you have to go on public streets (and traffic) to get places within DW. (I suppose that way, the cost of the roads is shared with the city/county?). What if there were more boats from Parks to resorts? But here I am at Pop Century, or Coronado Springs, or Yacht Club headed to the MK and suddenly I am waiting in traffic. Sort of breaks the magic.
Central Florida is also somewhat treacherous territory: not all of WDW's land can be built on. There are bodies of water, legally protected wetlands, and sinkholes everywhere. That might limit where they can put the parks and resorts.
I get the numbers. I understand the economics behind the business decisions. But ever since I was a little kid (going to Walt Disney World practically EVERY summer) I have always felt there is just something special and magically visionary about the monorail. I have ALWAYS loved riding on it. I can’t explain why. But it has always felt special. A real world, functional departure from today’s world. I always felt like i wasn’t on an attraction depicting the future, but I was actually IN the future. There’s just something incredible about it.
Are you sure the monorail costs you shared didn’t also include the cost of real estate? I think those costs include the price of easements and purchases of land. If the monorail expansion is kept on property, the cost would be much lower per mile.
That’s what I was thinking. All the comparisons were in cities, not on private property so there’s no doubt they would include costs you wouldn’t incur building on land you already own.
A road also needs easements and a two lane road costs an average of $30 million/mile. Most of the cost is in the grading/surveying/planning/building not land (albeit its still a good chunk of course). It's also far, far, far cheaper to maintain and you can outsource both the buses and road maintenance to outside companies (although don't know if disney does that). It really is clear why they haven't expanded it, they in essence probably consider it more of an attraction then a transportation method at this point.
Can't fathom how a system that is little more than concrete pillars and small concrete tracks would cost $100M/mile, you'd think all of that is easily prefabricated then a relatively easy install process. Oh well, that's why I'm not a civil engineer :D Also in addition to the cost to build, I wonder how that would impact parking revenue, granted in an ideal world you'd not want such a huge amount of land dedicated to parking but it's not like they're going to fill that space with theme parks or resorts (plenty of space elsewhere). I'm guessing the relatively recent decision to charge for parking at resorts was a direct result of "that's a lot of revenue we're leaving on the table"
It wouldn't cost quite that much, those figures are all based on public works in urban areas. Disney building it on their own land would be much cheaper, they basically only need to pay for the actual construction.
Mike B A Chinese car maker named BYD (build your dreams) has there own monorail system and they say it’s only like one-fifth of the cost of a subway. ruclips.net/video/sjRSmgwWMAo/видео.html
Concrete is just expensive to transport and install due to the weight and nature of the material. It's also shit for the environment due to the process of producing lime by literally burning limestone.
Hey Rob, I just wanted to say thank you for your videos! Your style of enthusiasm without the played out “everything is Magic” that most Disney you-tubers have is great to watch!
Great video, well done. Just a thought, they'd have plenty of space for a ground rail and stations and I'm sure that would be a fraction of the cost of laying concrete monorails in the sky. Ground rail Transportation could be Electric / solar or maybe even magnetic propelled in this day and age
But you then have the problem of at grade road crossings with traffic signals. At that point just use a bus. You also have to figure in breakdowns. Without some sort of weird layout, a train breaks down you shut down the system. A bus breaks down other buses go around it.
MrShugarcube Peoplemover systems aren’t really meant for longer transits - hence why in Walt’s plans for EPCOT (the city), they fed into the monorail system. Now they could do Peoplemover or even automated trams from the resorts to the big stops, using the monorail stations as transit points (a la the TTC). But again, Disney could probably double or triple the number of busses and Minnie vans for what all that would cost, and have plenty of money to spare. I’m betting Disney wishes they could charge for resort transportation, like they do in Tokyo...
I don’t buy their cost estimates. These are government installs and we all know that a toilet cost $4,000 if a government puts in a new bathroom. I agree buses are cheaper. I think they chose not to expand the monorail because it does not generate money.
His examples were monorails built in cities packed with people and infrastructure that had to be worked around. It likely would’ve cost a fraction of what he estimated. I’m pretty disappointed in this video. Really should’ve talked to someone with knowledge in this field.
Yes it would generate money cause It would get people to the theme parks faster and what do people do at theme parks? Spend money on food and drinks and souvenirs and crap that they don't need. Also don't forget park tickets that people need to buy to get into these theme parks. So the more people in the parks the more money Disney is making form all these guest spending money in the parks. Waiting around for buses is a lose in revenue cause those people aren't at the parks spending money. Instead they are waiting an hour or more at bus stops for buses to pick them up and take them to their destinations.
Again let me start by saying you are a breath of fresh air! I love Disney. We don't have cable, just an antenna so RUclips is our #1 entertainment source. I watch a lot of Disney videos but yours are different them most others I see out there. So, two thought about the monorails. First, from the perspective of a 56 year old (born in 1962) from Canada ... a long way from California. I grew up watching Disney every Sunday night on TV. I honestly don't think people could imagine how much I loved that show ... how much it took me to places I would never visit, how it made me dream and truly influenced my thinking for the rest of my life. I dreamed of going to Disneyland ... but there was no way we could a trip like that. When Disney opened in FL, my parents planned a trip for our family. It was the first real family trip we had gone on as my father owned a small family shoe store on Main Street in our small northern town. He just could not shut down the store and leave it for a week. In the spring of 74, we flew out for a week (I left a comment after watching your oil crisis video). I remember the very first thing I saw was the monorail. I had seen it on TV almost every week but now it was right in front of me. Sleek,futuristic ... truly a dream come true. I have tried to visit Disney in FL (still never made it west of the Mississippi) every 5 -10 years. The first thing I look for is still the monorail. All those feelings I felt as a child watching tv (in back and white till we got our first color TV in 1967) come running back. To people from my generation, the monorail is iconic. It represents Disney. When you say Disneyworld (or land), I don't think of buses or gondolas or any other form of transportation ... I think monorail! The value of the monorail can not be just thought of just in dollars. The monorail is part of the magic of Disney. Now second ..... are buses better???? Not if you are in a wheelchair!!!!!! My partner is paralyzed form the shoulders down as the result of a diving accident when she was 12. She had never traveled as she needs care every 4 - 6 hours in a hospital bed. When we met 10 years ago, I retrofitted an old RV so that it has a wheelchair lift on it, a lift inside to transfer her from the wheelchair into a bed and a hospital bed. We took a trip to Disney about 3 years ago. We stayed in the campground (my first time staying there). Going back and forth to the parks and doing her care takes a lot of time so we got the 10 day hopper pass. The first few days we took the boat to Magic Kingdom. We took the monorail around the park. Super easy to get on and off with and electric wheelchair ... always room ... loved it. We then tried the buses ..... terrible!!!!! Every time we tired it we had to wait for several buses. This is because there are only a few spots for wheelchairs on each bus (they must lock them in). On the average we waited for 5 buses before one came by with an empty wheelchair spot. Then the time it took to get the lift out ... tie in the wheelchair .... and then the reverse when we arrived. With the monorail, no tie downs ... small ramp is pulled out ... drive in ... done! We ended up driving between parks with our wheelchair van. The monorail and for that matter the small boat between the campground and the Magic Kingdom (she just fit on it ... and I mean just ... tight turn getting on), was by far the best way for us to travel. Final thought ... you could do a video about handicapped accessibility and Disney. I would give it a C ... well maybe a B with some the understanding that it was built in the 70's. She can to not transfer out of her chair without a lift so many (if not most) rides are out. Pirates, Haunted Mansion, People Mover (and I am not even thinking of the obvious ones like Space Mountain, Test Track, Rock and Roll, Tower of Terror, .....) .... all out. Still it is better then Universal. Though we did not go, we were told none of the rides are accessible and they still wanted us to pay full price to visit! Anyway .... just some thoughts. I love Disney! It will always hold a special place in my heart. We are thinking in the next couple years it will be time to visit again! Keep up the awesome videos! Mike
All of this was going to happen 4 to 5 years ago. Siemens who's sponsored spaceship earth was going to sponsor the monorail for it all. They were gonna buy new monorails as well. Last minute disney backed out only because Siemens wanted to have on the side of each car disney world monorail by Siemens. 100% truth Got my start at disney co. Thru monorail transportation. Great work on this video all of the information was spot on. Nicely done.
@@dolfan29 yea disney just got cold feet. They didn't want something as iconic as the monorail having an association with another company. Literally after that its been nothing but problem after problem. Failing trains and pieces just falling off. The monorail fails everyday it just depends on which train and which track but it goes down everyday.
Haha someone at Disney should have got fired for that decision. What was going to be practically free for them for just some simple advertising is now going to them over a hundred million dollars to build a new Fleet of monorail trains.
@@dolfan29 The problem is there is no such thing as a free lunch. Think of all the sponsored projects that currently are sponsor-less due to companies that have down-sized or failed. How many attractions in Epcot are in jeopardy because the basic funding for upkeep isn't there anymore? Now putting a prime asset on someone else's back may be fine in the short-term but if Siemens suddenly pulled out; Disney is in trouble. Better to manage what you have (even poorly) with known variables than plan around those you don't. In this way Disney is actually running their affairs better than most world governments.
@@thunderfoot11 I'd have to respectfully disagree. The OP above stated themselves (as an insider) that the current monorails breakdown on a daily basis due to their age. It's not even a matter of if or when, it's pretty much an accepted daily occurrence for the park cast members who operate them. If the promoter company goes belly-up and abandons said up keep, in reality does it even matter? After delivering contracted trains in exchange for free promotion, and this said company disappears, Disney would have to pay the upkeep anyway in the long run especially for a 20 or 30 years stretch. At least they don't have to pay the initial layout of a 100 to 110 million dollars for a new Fleet of trains.
Idk if I agree that the buses a “better method of transportation” compared to the monorails. Yeah they’re cheaper and more convenient depending on where you’re staying, but for someone who stays in the Epcot Resort area every year, it would be a lot more convenient to have a monorail to Animal Kingdom (I can live without the one to Hollywood Studios, it’s essentially walking distance from Epcot and where I stay). Having to take the bus if I don’t rent a car is awful because our bus stops at all the resorts around the area and it adds so much time to get there. Plus, the buses are often full so we have to stand going there and back, and after a long day of a lot of walking, that’s pretty much the last thing I want to do.
I feel that the monorail should have another loop (route) that connects various hotels, Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom, Disney Springs, Wide World of Sports and water parks. This would make those hotels more enticing and of course provide more options for late night/early morning visits by these hotel guests. The Epcot line should run down to the Hollywood Studios, future Brightline Station and Disney Springs. This line needs at least 2 hotels built along its path from the TTC going to Epcot.
Atmblack03 Disney is looking to cut a lot of costs right now especially with the new raise promised and all of the projects on property, galaxy’s edge, gondola, Coronado springs to name a few.
There is a lot more to a monerail then just the track which factors into the cost per mile (like the trains and stations) since there is already some sort of system, it probably wouldn't be that expensive.
When I was small I remember being at a Disney World monorail station and a bird flew inside the track. Then the monorail came in while the bird was still down there. I always wondered what happened to it.
Despite buses being more efficient, I do think that Disney should try to move forward with more unique modes of transportation to keep the place feeling more magical. Monorails may be too expensive, but I’m glad that the Skyliner is becoming a thing and boats are plentiful. Buses should certainly NOT go away as they are the most practical, but it’s nice having the option to travel through multiple means
Love ya Rob. However, on this one I gotta say: Nope. And I enjoy reading all the comments that start out with, "I love the monorail as much as anybody but.....". Nope on all them, too. Clearly y'all DON'T "love it as much as everybody" 'cos if you DID there wouldn't be a "but" which would go on to dismantle what you just claimed. And insofar as cost, Reedy Creek is its own taxing district, correct? So every single postcard, plush doll, or resort stay COULD have a "Monorail Tax" applied to it to fund the entire thing 100%, couldn't it? And if there is to be a lateral (east-west) line, wouldn't it make sense to send it all the way from DAK & HS to Lake Buena Vista, Hotel Plaza, Downtown Disney? Just create a new "TTC II" at Epcot's station? Or better still, run the east-west line along/around/over World Showcase and the World Gateway entrance. And wouldn't creating all that extra beamway (not track, folks) create development opportunities for more Deluxe Level Resorts and the premium they command BECAUSE it's on a monorail? ^^^^THAT^^^, Ladies & Gentlemen, is what "someone who loves the monorails as much as the next guy" says. Without a "but".
I disagree that we somehow don't love the monorail as much just because we're willing to accept some realistic logistical road blocks, but each their own. RCID can tax the district land owners (Disney), but the monorail isn't built or operated by the RCID, so they wouldn't be the ones using money to build a new line. Disney could always just raise the prices of everything at Disney as a "monorail tax", but that doesn't change that it would face scrutiny for being a poor use of the revenue. It's not just a matter of the monorail being expensive. It's a matter of it being especially expensive when compared to other efficient forms of transportation. An East-West line with a transfer at Epcot's station means a monorail guest going to the Magic Kingdom needs to take three monorails to get there. Compared to one bus that can go direct from A to B, for far cheaper, it's just not a worthy use of the money. After all, part of what creates that demand for resort rooms on the monorail loop isn't just that there's a monorail attached, but that it's a short single 5 minute ride to the park. If Disney felt that the revenue from additional further monorail resorts would be enough to justify the cost, we would have seen a resort or two along the Epcot line. Ultimately, I love the monorail. However loving it doesn't mean ignoring it's fault or ignoring better forms of transport just for the sake of getting more of it. It serves a specific, but limited, purpose. Disney would be better off putting some TLC into what's there, and looking to newer better forms of transport into other regions of the resort, which is what we're seeing with the gondolas.
One way of making this more reasonable is building new Monorail resorts. The amount people would pay to be in a new Monorail resort would be astronomical.
Some of the existing resorts could be monorail resorts, which would bring in a premium. Animal Kingdom Lodge has always been the one Deluxe resort that's been hardest to get to and from; making it the terminus of an east-west line would make it all the more attractive. Coronado Springs would be another logical one for that route.
@@MattMcIrvin There's quite a few others as well. The Disney Frontier Lodge _just_ missed out on it, since it's right across the street from the Transportation and Ticket Center. And a line extension to Hollywood Studios would pass right by the Dolphin and Swan concept resorts. Coronado Springs would work as well, though you'd have to choose between it or Blizzard Beach. It makes more sense to connect to Coronado Springs anyway, since then it's a straight shot to the entrance to Animal Kingdom and the Animal Kingdom Lodge, whereas if the line connected to Blizzard Beach it would have to run past the Animal Kingdom parking lot. Unfortunately though Port Orleans, Saratoga, Fort Wilderness, Caribbean Beach, Art of Animation and Pop Century are just too out of the way to be worth connecting. But the Yacht Club and Boardwalk share a lot with the Dolphin and Swan and would thus essentially gain access by default.
I've also thought that it would be cool to connect the Skyliner at the south end of Epcot to the main entrance of Epcot with the monorail station by an indoor peoplemover to completely connect the entire Disney transportation system.
Excellent video, but I think you missed an opportunity when talking about the original Epcot monorail. Logistically, expanding the monorail to HWS and AK doesn't really make sense, as the hub is the TTC all the way in the north. The idea of having central theme park parking at a location other than the TTC and having monorail lines go to all the parks would be pretty cool, but it would be an overhaul of the system already in place which clearly was built on the original Epcot model.
From the original Epcot model the land immediately to the east of the MK parking lot and World Dr was reserved for building an additional theme park. More or less some of the ideas for a theme park to build on that land morphed into the larger park of Animal Kingdom that was built elsewhere on Disney property that we have today where there was more land available to build on (not to mention the fact that the MK parking lot really can't handle the parking for an additional theme park). Some fans have proposed elsewhere on the internet moving the MK parking lot to the land to the west of MK closer to the park and use moving walkways and a mini Downtown Disney (Disney Springs) shopping area [e.g. like Universal City Walk] from a parking lot there to the entry plaza at MK to alleviate stress on the monorail system and make it quicker for guests who drive to get into the MK. Presently that would not make much sense for Disney because it would only push the parking further to the north on land that is VERY swampy and would be very expensive to shore up even for a massive parking lot. It will be interesting to see what comes of Brightline (now to be renamed Virgin Trains USA with Sr. Richard Branson's recent minority ownership acquisition). They have submitted a proposal to FDOT to build a higher speed rail line between Orlando and Tampa along the I-4 corridor and some of those plans have a proposed stop for Disney World. If that comes to fruition it will be interesting to see where they put the Disney World stop. My guess would be they come up with an agreement with Disney to build a train station on some of the land in Osceola county south of US 192 that Walt had on his plans in 1966 for an "airport of the future". Another likely spot for a station would be on the land east of the ESPN Wild World of sports complex between I-4 and south of Osceola Pkwy. If that does happen Disney would likely need to think about creating a southern hub for their transportation network (and Walt's original plan for Disney World shown briefly in Rob's video above was to have a welcome center -- a transportation hub -- for guests on the south end of the property).
Thanks for the elaboration, I wasn't aware of a lot of this information. As someone who is really interested in the logistics of how Disney runs its property, I find the history and speculation interesting. I wasn't aware of any rumors regarding the I-4 route stopping at Disney, but as a Tampa local, I have to admit, you're getting me excited. I absolutely hate I-4.
Me and my whole family went to disney world when I was ten. I was more than excited and getting on the monorail to get to the magic kingdom is sealed in my brain. Right after we got on, someone from the monorail asked me, my brother and cousins if we wanted to ride in the front car. It was so exciting seeing the park for the first time from the front of the monorail.
I talked with people at Disney World and they also said that when a Monorail train breaks down the entire system is down and cannot move people. If a bus breaks down they just radio for anther bus and keep moving people, that does not stop other busses from transporting guests. With the bus system at the end of a night the Magic Kingdom can move 20,000 people away from the park in about 10 minutes, no way you are doing that with a Monorail.
They would not be able to move 20,000 people away from park in 10 minutes on buses. Just one bus alone takes 20- 30 minutes to arrive to pick people up. Monorails are faster.
I got a question: Will Disney ever make another ride without being based on an ip? Those are the best Haunted Mansion Pirates of the Caribbean Space Mountain etc.
I'm a little disappointed with the comparisons in this video. Mumbai is one of the densest cities in the whole world. Surely, the open spaces in Walt Disney world would allow a much cheaper price per mile per mile than the other systems that you're comparing. Also, I would assume that there's far less regulations for Disney world to deal with considering they own the whole place.
The end credits video in the bus brings back such good memories. When you’re on the bus arriving at one of the parks, such joy! Also wow, your research is very good.
Hi rob. I like your videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and information about Walt Disney World, and all the other Disney parks and properties. Keep up the good work.
Nothing says innovative and cutting edge like a cable car system and buses.... Sarcasm aside, the only way I ever see Disney adding a monorail to another park would be if the new line had a “monorail hotel” at every mile marker to make their money back.
They don't have to build it all in one year. Wonder if they'll build new roads for the automated vehicles? Imagine if Disney had built the airport. That's what he was looking for. No rental car needed, people to stay onsite without leaving.
I think lots of people would like to rent a bike instead of driving to connect theme park and ride around the resort ... it’s cheap to make and with scenery it could be an activity itself !
I disagree on your thought. Not sure if you've been to Disney World before but the road system between most of the resorts [minus the Epcot resorts] and the parks is not designed for pedestrians or bikes -- it's not safe for that. Also in many cases it is just too darn far for the liking of most guests to even bike between their destinations (especially in the HOT and very sticky humidity of the summer months in FL. Oh and did anyone mention the plentiful gully washer afternoon T-storms in FL... it's bad enough if you get stuck outside waiting for the monorail [I have before]. I can't imagine getting stuck in weather like that while trying to bike somewhere with millions of tourists everywhere driving around in unfamiliar roads. It sounds like such a fun activity! But to each their own. )
I feel like tram would be a perfect public transportation method for disney world. It's built on mostly flat ground so you could put lines pretty much anywhere you wanted. Tram tracks and power lines are much cheaper than monorails and of course, unlike buses and cars trams don't use fossil fuels which would both give disney some good publicity and save them money because electricity is cheaper than diesel. Also, and this is just my personal opinion, to me trams just look much cleaner and neater than a giant fleet of buses.
Except Trams are not used much in the US due to the unrestricted electrical lines that are used to run them (that's a big no-no here) . Also anything on ground level means installing guarded crossings which increase the local traffic and the possibility of accidents. And graded crossings and trains are just bad, trains (including trams) don't climb very efficiently and graded crossings are expensive to build and maintain (just like monorail track).
@@thunderfoot11 I literally live in a city with insanely dense tram network and I can tell you it doesn't really worsen the traffic that much. Also if you had trams between the parks they could just go on empty land or parallel to roads and not interfere with cars at all. Also not to mention tram lines are like 6 meters in the air, killing yourself on one of them is pretty much impossible and I would argue that it's safer to have electrical lines several meters in the air in unpopulated area of a theme park than it is to have guns at every single walmart, but than again America has never been the most sensible of countries
@@Laurabeck329 And in Europe, it works. The problem is what percentage of the population in that city regularly uses auto transportation on a daily basis. In the US it's above 75%. With the exception of New York City, the percentage of citizens that own and operate motor vehicles is very high, mostly because people that work in the city live elsewhere; it's why mass transportation systems in the US do very little to alleviate traffic flow. The tram lines in the air aren't the problem, it's when the violent weather we have puts those same lines on the ground. Hurricanes are a regular occurrence in Florida, not so much in Europe. Likewise while not as likely in Florida, tornadoes are also a thing, again, not so much in Europe. Also the amount of electrical storms in the US is higher than in Europe. Quite literally you would be more likely to get killed by an electrical storm if we had a European style electrical system than by firearm fatality. As for the unpopulated area of the theme park, we are discussing getting from one are to another, the are in between isn't populated but there are several major county and state highways that you would have to contend with. It really is a case of apples and oranges, I've lived in Europe, the mass transit system works there, in the US, not so much (sure larger cities like NYC, Chicago and LA) but Orlando is built upon the concept of urban sprawl. The amount of people that live in the Orlando area is large, but the space occupied is much larger than a comparable European city. If your only concept of life in the US is from news and Hollyweird, I can understand your confusion, but honestly, it just isn't gonna fly.
Good vid. Logical assumptions and analysis, though it doesn't address the "show" aspects of the transportation system. Would love a vid on the reason for no "in-park" transportation in any of the post-MK parks (of course EPCOT has/had limited transpo around World Showcase). Would also love to hear why the Peoplemover system was never used as an actual transportation system, as the Walt-era EPCOT plans clearly show the intent to use them as such.
Hollywood Studios, when it was "Disney/MGM", was designed originally with the idea that the back section would be working studios with a tram tour like Universal Hollywood's. I imagine they thought that was all the in-park transit they needed there, since it's a small park. Animal Kingdom actually did have the little steam train going back to Rafiki's Planet Watch (though I guess that's closed down, at least for the time being). There also used to be a water taxi of sorts going around the central Discovery Island, but it stopped running because of low ridership and the general expectation that it would be an attraction with something to see (there wasn't much).
Probably because it's the kind of thing you have to factor into the initial plans for a park, it'd be just too much of a hassle for Disney to demolish entire sections of park just to make some kind of train loop in an existing park.
More recent aerial photography shows Disney demolished all of the guest buildings for the Rafiki's Planet watch area that the train tracks go to. They didn't demolish the train station and they still list the area on the park's website but it is presently closed to guests. Disney obviously has something else in mind for developing on that area where the train goes to. I knew someone who drove the water taxi boats at AK when they were operating. They closed them down like you said because there wasn't much to see and Disney at the time didn't want to pay to keep dredging the waterways to keep the boats from getting stuck in the mud for the low ridership.
I still miss the Mark IV monorail trains, with the pneumatic door poppers, and the rhythmic slamming of doors indicating you were about to depart for the next stop!!!! Good times back then . . . . good times!
Could you cover the reason why a lot of Disney merchandise doesn't have a trademark/copywrite year ? I've come up with the conclusion that Disney doesn't want to date themselves (make themselves old) but that's just me
Merchandise can have a trademark without listing a year. Copyrights do have dates, but you don’t copyright merchandise. Merchandise can have a design patent, and characters like Mickey Mouse are also protected, but they do not have dates on every item either.
@@BradHouser Gold star for you Brad. :) @Alana W If you check your videos or books you'll see copyright dates; Trademarks and Registered trademarks have never carried dates as far as I can tell. As an aside that's one reason many collectables have started putting a date mark on them - to make them collectable. :/ (redundant see redundant).
other reasons they aren't gonna add it one the gondola will be going to hollywood studios and for the animal kingdom they said it disturbs the animals and makes to much noise for a monorail to be there
Indianapolis had 1.5 miles of monorail that cost $44 million to build in the early 2000’s. It was a private build but the long term plans were for downtown Indy to add to it and run out to the airport. It shut down in February.
One thing that is not mentioned is that in Los Angeles and Dubai, the land has to be purchased. That is surely included in the cost per mile. If Disney already owns the land, that save a lot of money. I think the price analysis is therefore incomplete. How much is the cost of construction itself?
@@BradHouser I was going to point out the same thing; in addition, Disney would have the opportunity to connect the monorail with additional resorts, or at another "TTC" equivalent central to many other resorts, allowing Disney to get a higher per-room, per-night price for some of those other resorts.
All good points for something I've often wondered about. Those costs are insane! Whatever the reasons for the monorail issues, I know the buses are as magic-killing as transportation gets. Crowded, suffocating and slow, going through offstage areas and past McDonald's. Starting or ending your frightfully expensive vacation day with all the magic of going to work. I hope that the gondola system is the alternative they need. One advantage of the monorail is that everyone of all abilities can easily board, but with buses, each individual chair or scooter requires attention by the driver to secure in place. That seems as little as any corporation could do to get away with the definition of accessibility. Gondolas will presumably be designed for freedom and accessibility for all, and bring back some of the Disney charm in the process. Great info. Thanks!
Yes DAK closes when it does to allow the animals to sleep. Hollywood Studios early closing times are in part more so the nighttime shows with fireworks at Epcot don't interfere with Fantasmic at DHS. (The viewing area for Fantasmic at DHS faces where fireworks at World Showcase Lagoon in EPCOT during the nighttime spectacular would be visible). However the bigger issue is traffic management. If DHS and Epcot were to close at the same time it would have created MASSIVE gridlock on Buena Vista Drive and to some extent Epcot Ctr. Drive. The previous main exit for the DHS parking lot on Buena Vista Dr. (and the road systems around DHS park in general) was not well thought out for expansion in the immediate area. Disney just very recently opened a new main entrance and exit to the DHS parking with an interchange at Osecola Pwky and Victory Way to try to redirect the traffic away from Buena Vista Dr instead to Osecola Pwky (which is built like a highway to handle much more traffic) and to allow for construction of their Star Wars hotel and new cast member parking for DHS.
AK Closes at the time it does cause the cast members need daylight to be able to clean the animals enclosures and not every part closes necessarily at the same time. I know this cause this is what a cast member told me when I asked why Rafiki's was closed when the park was still open for another 2 hours.
What a about a train/monorail Hybrid. A train would be cheaper to build and run than a monorail, but it could be built to look like a monorail, and be called a monorail. Technically it would still be a train, but to most people, they would consider it a monorail. It wouldn’t be as cool as an actual monorail, but it would still be a better way to transport people than busses. Another thing to consider is that the monorail and transportation at WDW in general isn’t just park for park hopping, its also largely about getting people from the hotels to the parks
Nice old footage of the Seattle Monorail at the 1962 Worlds Fair! That monorail also has some growth problems - in the 50+ years since it was built, it's seen a massive addition of... zero stops to its track! That's a far cry from the original plan which was to have it go all the way down to the airport. It's always funny (and kind of sad) to hear the little announcement though - "last stop!" it says when pulling into... either of its two stops.
It is my understanding that Disney employed a real urban transportation consultant from San Francisco and gave him a blue sky opportunity to plan out the transportation in Walt Disney World for the next several decades. Both the Minnie Vans and the Skyliner came out of the planning, and both seem like much better and more cost effective ways to meet the current and future needs of Walt Disney World than extending the monorail. I love the monorail as much as anyone, but I’m glad to see that Disney is continuing to invest in a mass transit network that is innovative, entertaining, effective, and cost-effective.
Scott Atwood yes, it is most cost-effective however does not capture the spirit of Disney where you enter a world that is ideal and not the one you left.
It'll be interesting to see if the Skyliner actually works as a transportation system. If the capacity isn't high enough to keep long lines from forming, it might be enervating to take a trip that involves multiple transfers. And that's before even considering the lack of real A/C, which has a lot of people nervous. As a big fan of gondola skyways, though, I hope it is viable and doesn't just get torn down in a few years.
Austin Bounce House Rentals I do think the Skyliner does capture some of the spirit of Disney. After all, the Skyway was an iconic part of both Disneyland and Magic Kingdom for many years. And anything that provides a viable alternative to buses, which are distinctly not magical, is good from my perspective.
Matt McIrvin My biggest concern is that the International Gateway at Epcot was only designed to accommodate the Epcot area resorts, and not all of the resorts served by the Skyliner. I’m not sure how they’ll manage it without adding additional turnstiles, either by demolishing part of the restroom/gift shop building or by routing people through and new route to the west of the building.
While monorails are impractical I don't believe trains are. While visiting Japan I was impressed on how efficient and pedestrian friendly the public transport was. Of course Disney could have been more innovative with transportation like current fed waterways, etc yet then they wouldn't profit as much off of associated auto fees.
In the first mini models of Disney World, not the original plan of Walt Disney for Epcot, there was a monorail line linking TTC to the then called Buena Vista Village, now Disney Springs.
Another way in which the biz model of the park changed was WDW was initially a drive to destination. Pack up the family station wagon & off you go. Now you can fly there with vacation packages. As they say...getting there is half the fun. Yes! That gentle curve of the original line would have been ideal. Like a point to point railroad. Wherever you put turns & switches in a layout, it drives up the cost.
Hi Rob, I believe that the monorail works more like a mega Disney attraction than just a connecting vehicle between parks and resorts. The monorail itself works as an immense attraction to Disney fans. The investment would be the same as the construction of a new and fantastic attraction. The approach to the monorail theme was excellent and the theme even better.
They are building some form of suspension gondola system in stead of adding monorails. I believe they have already started some construction of the pillars for it in Orlando
There is something to say around attaching a circular line between Disney springs, epcot, boardwalk, hollywood studios, animal kingdom lodge and animal kingdom. You would continue to make epcot a hub which linked to magic kingdom. This would reduce traffic which is already heavy at Disney springs whilst also increasing the value of two deluxe resorts. I think this would of been better than the planned cable car
One other purpose for the monorail not mentioned is when they tell day guests to park at EPCOT because MK parking is full. It still never seems like they run enough buses at the right time. I've missed out on many morning EMH because only one bus comes and then 30 minutes later another comes. We then see buses for other places in between (who the hell goes to DTD at 8am?)
The cost would likely be less than the average due to the fact that Disney already owns all the land. A big, big cost factor in public works is getting the right way. Though the rest is correct since park hopping isn't exactly a thing and since most of the inpark hotels aren't connected to the monorail the system would have less benefit than would be desired. Maybe if they committed to building an in park airport/with accommodations it would make sense to include a major expansion in the monorail system.
I know they’re at least adding a new transportation system for the Epcot/Hollywood studio area! They’re putting in a gondola system that’ll connect all the all-star resorts, the boardwalk, and Epcot/Hollywood Studios
I think you made a good point with the budget for monorails only able to go to the other parks. With the new transportation (gondolas), that opens up more opportunity to reach the other parks as well as connecting Parks. The sad thing is that the company added yet another transportation to Epcot and DHS when we already have three other options. Maybe one day DAK will get more love. Great video as always!
I agree it's probably not plausible now, but with how close the Studios is to Epcot, I feel like they could have extended the line at least to there back when they were building the park. Also, I think they desperately need to replace the fleet. I'll be honest, I do everything I can to try to avoid riding the buses, so at least they're giving us more options there
Disney had plans to expand the monorail to the Studios when they were planning to build it along with an extension to then phase 1 of Disney Village / later renamed Downtown Disney / and now named Disney Springs. They also were trying to get a monorail/ train direct from Orlando International airport to the Walt Disney World property but plans for that fell through with pushback from voters on a ballot initiative in the Orlando area at the time [fed by anti Disney train propaganda from I-Drive business owners and Universal who was building their Universial Studios Florida park to the north.] Disney didn't fight the pushback much and refocused their efforts heavily on making sure to open their Studios park before Universal opened theirs and went with building the huge fleet of the cheaper buses rather than expanding the monorail. I'm glad with the Skyliner system they are finally trying alternative transportation between parks and the resorts again rather than just buying more buses.
During the “Backstage Magic Tour” our guide mentioned that the swamp land and costs associated with building on that type of land would just be too great.
I don't know when I first rode the monorail at Disney, but it was from Disney Hotel to the main entrance of Disneyland. I first visited Disneyland in the summer of !955. The parking lot was in front of the main entrance and extended to Katella Avenue.
I stumbled upon this video almost 2 and a half years later in 2021, and as an undergrad studying economics, I understand the cost argument. I understand too that along with the construction costs, there's also maintenance for the tracks which is definitely a factor when considering an expansion. However, Disney did just spend $2 billion building 2 Galaxy Edges and undisclosed amounts (probably $100-$600 million on each for the Avengers Campus, the Tron Rollercoaster at Magic Kingdom, their expansion at DisneySea, and more they have planned, so I feel the cost argument should be tossed to the side. The monorail tracks currently have 3 lines: the resort monorails, the TTC straight to Magic Kingdom and back, and the TTC to EPCOT and back. The last expansion of the tracks was almost 40 years ago in 1982 with the opening of EPCOT, so I think they are due for one. Along with this, the monorails are more efficient at transporting guests and carry (on average) roughly 50,000 more passengers daily than other WDW transportation (buses, ferries, etc.). I personally don't think a possible expansion to the monorail system would go only to Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom as shown in the video, but instead, go to Disney Springs. Disney Springs is arguably the largest bus hub on the property, is close to many of the resort's hotels, lots of parking that non-resort guests could park at, as well as shopping and food for possible park-hoppers or people at WDW for a day trip. Along with that, Disney would only need to have a loop from EPCOT to Disney Springs which would be roughly 5-9 miles (depending on the station's location) instead of the 12 miles proposed in the video. By doing this, Disney could add at least another 2 monorails to their lineup and could probably decrease the number of buses that go from Disney Springs to either EPCOT, the TTC, the Magic Kingdom, or the resorts along the Magic Kingdom Monorail Loop and instead allocate them towards Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios and their respective resorts. This would decrease travel time all around WDW, and it also allows for an alternative way for the Magic Kingdom Resort guests to get to Disney Springs for the new railroad that is being constructed to go to Orlando International Airport allowing for quicker travel to and from the airport. The Disney Gondola has also had rumored expansion to go to Animal Kingdom and Disney Springs too and having a monorail station at Disney Springs would connect the north to south and the east to west of the park with the buses connecting everything else for even better transportation around the property. The only issue with this that I could see at the moment for Disney about what I proposed is that pre-COVID, the Magic Kingdom typically had extended hours till 12am, and guests could stay in the park until 1am, which is 2-3 hours longer than most of Disney Springs and EPCOT are open for. This means that Disney would have to keep the Magic Kingdom-EPCOT and EPCOT-Disney Springs monorail tracks open and running until 2am (1 hour after Magic Hours end per Disney guidelines) even though EPCOT and Disney Springs would've been closed for a couple of hours at that point, which is not very efficient as monorails after 12am are typically sparsely populated. This means it is likely not cost-effective for Disney to operate those monorail lines with the amount of power they use. The simple workaround to this would be to extend Disney Springs and EPCOT's operational hours which does allow for more late-night income, but it does mean more expenses for Disney with wages, power, trash, water, etc which would add up pretty quickly. Sorry for the long spiel, but as you can see, I'm pretty passionate about Disney and WDW and just want them to be successful and keep their guests happy for the long run. Disney has definitely focused more on its infrastructure in recent years with their expansion of Avatar, Star Wars, Toy Story, Disney Springs, and upcoming EPCOT overhaul, and I think its monorails could definitely use an expansion to alleviate the massive fleet of buses the WDW property has and diminish travel times around the parks and think Disney Springs is probably the best spot for this expansion.
I think your math is a bit flawed. The main driver for expensive monorails is land purchases and legal work for the expansion. Neither of which Disney would have an issue with in the Walt Disney world park. I get what you're going for but if your math is only inflating public work projects you miss the true costs and benefits of a private monorail system. This is not to say it makes financial sense to expand the current Disney system but using your method doesn't really give us an idea of the true cost of ownership.
I agree. I said the same thing before I even read your comment.
I like your icon
Not to mention that Disney wouldn't necessarily have to put out the project and all of its various construction aspects out for bid (although I wouldn't be surprised if they did anyway just to drive prices down). Concrete is cheap, especially for large projects like these, and it's likely they could pre-fab most of the track components off-site and ship them in to be craned into place (which reduces labor costs and construction time).
I'd say a more reasonable estimate would be about $5-10 million per mile, since land acquisition, zoning, and design aren't involved.
It's also worth noting that pads for track to MGM/HS were laid during the park's initial construction, but the line was cancelled before they built the towers and track.
@@factorone Do you have a source or anywhere to find information about the pads they laid out for the monorail that was supposed to go to MGM/HS? I'm curious.
@@matt8235 I bet the new gondola is utilizing those pads.
Here's the one thing about your second argument. Yes, I agree the monorail isn't the best form of transportation in a practical sense. However, there's something about stepping foot on the monorail, smelling the faint plastic interior and foreign tourists and riding high on the track with the impeccable views. Part of the awe of monorails is that it is an exciting experience in itself.
I'll counter this with the condition the monorails are in. In a word, poor. They are run down, they often smell bad, and that's if they're working. They stall relatively frequently and sometimes run with a door open. It's an outdated form of transportation from a generation or so ago. While I personally like the monorail, they need to fix what's wrong before they decide to expand
@@averytatavitto9333 I don't think the entire mode of transportation is outdated, just the model and the age of the vehicles.
@@averytatavitto9333 the current rail cars are from 1989 using the Mark VI trains. They are outdated but with an upgrade to newer trains would make a huge difference. There were talks about possible upgrading to newer trains. Still think the monorail is a great form of transportation.
I vote "people mover track between all parks"!.
This comes up on various "Build more Monorails" debates I have read over the years. Enclosed pods carrying 6 to 8 people running on a network of tracks with stations where you pullover so things don't get backed up. Heathrow has a system like this. West Virginia University has even an older system.
ruclips.net/video/iaSaWfw07Sw/видео.html
Ooooooooh
i'm with you on that one...the WEDway was a part of the original planning and way cheaper than a monorail....the dream is just the start.
Why not a elevated roadway for Autonomous electric vehicles?
cdn0.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2018/05/Boring-Company-Loop-hed-2-796x419.jpg
Why not extend the Big Thunder Mountain track a bit? Longest rollercoaster ride in the world _and_ an efficient way to get from one park to another... Genius! :)
The buses are less than magical. I don't think Walt would approve of the bus experience.
They move less people and pollute.
compared to my bus experience here in NYC, they are very magical ha!
My wife and I regularly take the Walt Disney bus as we stay on Disney grounds. It's not that bad; just remember that it takes an hour via bus to get from one point to another and you will be fine. BTW: If you venture off Disney grounds and use the Orlando LYNX bus the difference is a major jolt.
An hour! Yes, an hour! This is what frustrated me the most about the buses. If we had to change plans or directions, it often meant a 2 hour round trip. On our last trip, I had to run back to the room to get something for the kids and it took me over an hour to get from Disney Springs to Riverside. I got in the car and drove back in 5 minutes (less than 2 miles)! An hour on the bus was an hour less that I was spending money in the parks/stores.
I find that a car is just as frustrating, is expensive and can be time consuming since you have to park then walk to ride to your final destination via the transit lines. A long time ago I learned that I am on vacation. That means that I should vacate and shun prior activities, including worries. It is what it is. Might as well slow down and enjoy the view along the way. I have also learned to enjoy where I am at. Disney has a lot of beauty and "eye candy" to see wherever you are.
Here's the thing though: people don't like buses. They're thought of as dirty, slow, unreliable, and the opposite of "futuristic". While there's technically nothing ecologically wrong with electric automated buses of the future, it seems like it goes against the grain for Disney. We are after all talking about a set of theme parks that do a lot of unnecessary and seemingly impractical things all for the aesthetic guest experience. So I think the counter-argument would be that it's a step away from the sense of Disney magic and attention to detail. The gondolas do seem like a good compromise though.
"They're thought of as dirty, slow, unreliable, and the opposite of "futuristic"."
And not without reason either, at least with the buses they currently use.
Dirty: There are bus manufacturers that build BEV buses and they're already in use in some networks (Asheville's ART is one of them), but your typical Disney buses are older diesel-powered models. To really be able to shake this they'd have to completely rework their fleet and supporting infrastructure.
Slow: While buses aren't necessarily actually any slower than the monorail in terms of actual performance, they still have to interact with traffic and that can hold them up. Additionally, they generally have to stick to public roads, which means they can't always take the most direct route.
Unreliable: I mean, they're not necessarily more unreliable than any other IC powered vehicles, but they're far more prone to mechanical failure than an electric powered monorail.
For $70 Billion dollars they could run a monorail from my house directly to the Magic Kingdom 😂
How much would a monorail cost from the Magic Kingdom to Caerdydd Canolog?
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uncriticalsimon Well if you had a low ball shady contractor & not accounting for an ocean rail... you’d be looking at about 1/2 a trillion dollars 😂🙌 I’m saying there’s a chance!
Charlie :/ :/ haha could you imagine getting ready that morning? Hurry up the monorail will be here in 20 minutes! 😄
@@Sdanwolf There'll be another in half an hour though if you miss it.
Built over undeveloped land which is already owned, a concrete monorail shouldn't cost even 1/10th that price. $15152 per linear foot when steel rail siding runs $375? Are you kidding me? Materials for a pair of tracks is about $70, which is much less than the cost of steel rail.
I agree. I posted a comment that the costs couldnt be nearly that high, considering Disney doesnt have to worry about right of way, real estate, or impact fees.
In addition, it would be easy for them to build a pre-stressed concrete factory of their own, on site, and construct the spans and columns. Really only leaves the reinforcing steel that would have to be supplied by outside sources.
Concrete is generally reinforced with steel, but rebar is for sure cheaper than a steel beam
They should build a hyper loop train from Disneyland CA to Disney World FL that would take about 3 hrs. Then offer a 6 park ticket hopper.
Wasn't a WDW ticket technically a six-park hopper until recently?
I didn’t figure in the water parks. Just the 4 theme parks at WDW and the 2 theme parks in CA.
@@wolfsonryan I was referring to how you used to be able to use WDW tickets at DL.
Oh I didn’t know you used to be able to used same park tickets in FL or CA.
They already offer a six-park hopper pass. It is called the Disney Premier Passport and, as of December 2018, it costs $1439 plus sales tax. The Premier Passport is the ultimate 'golden ticket' to Disney magic. You'll enjoy unlimited admission to everything the Disneyland and Walt Disney World Resorts have to offer, including the Theme Parks, Water Parks, etc.
They need to give proper maintenance to the ones they have now!
WZTwiggs not really at least not the last time I was there. They are constantly breaking down and some are quite dirty. They need to be redone.
If the WDW monorail were an automobile, most stares, if not all, would classify them as classic, or even antiques. They’re THAT old. And the “new” monorail trains still qualify, since they are still the same model, and built from salvaged models. Anyone who has any experience with classic, or even vintage vehicles knows that they are not reliable and require a lot more maintenance.
New trains are on order with Bombardier. Track repair is scheduled too.
Some of them are 30 years old
Holly Whalen , I agree
Financially wise or not, the Monorail is one of the icons of WDW. It’d be a total win for them to extend the line. Perhaps once the high speed rail line is built between Tampa and Orlando they could extend the Monorail to a “Disney” stop for the rail line. Rumored years ago when high speed rail was first considered was a stop in Celebration I believe.
Monorail is sure an icon of Disney. I would love to be able to take it to all the main parks, it would be so much more convenient. It runs wary more frequently than the buses and holds way more people too.
They could also make a line to Animal Kingdom & Hollywood Studios if they take down the gondola in the future.
It has ALWAYS bothered me that they didn't keep the resort area more centralized. Why did they insist on expanding each park and hotel into random corners of the property. I think that reflects a lack of master-planning of the Resort as a whole, something which Walt would have wanted. Had they kept everything more centralized they would have maximized the use of space and been able to run monorails to more places.
Only guess is traffic problems
Well without Walt everything is tic-tac additions one piece at a time
Sight lines maybe? They obviously don't care about those anymore though
i don't understand why they don't have internal roads to get from parks to resorts and instead you have to go on public streets (and traffic) to get places within DW. (I suppose that way, the cost of the roads is shared with the city/county?). What if there were more boats from Parks to resorts? But here I am at Pop Century, or Coronado Springs, or Yacht Club headed to the MK and suddenly I am waiting in traffic. Sort of breaks the magic.
Central Florida is also somewhat treacherous territory: not all of WDW's land can be built on. There are bodies of water, legally protected wetlands, and sinkholes everywhere. That might limit where they can put the parks and resorts.
I get the numbers. I understand the economics behind the business decisions. But ever since I was a little kid (going to Walt Disney World practically EVERY summer) I have always felt there is just something special and magically visionary about the monorail. I have ALWAYS loved riding on it. I can’t explain why. But it has always felt special. A real world, functional departure from today’s world. I always felt like i wasn’t on an attraction depicting the future, but I was actually IN the future. There’s just something incredible about it.
The remarkable thing is that the monorails that do exist were built at all. Especially the Epcot spur.
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Larry Bundy Jr not on your life, my Hindu friend!
that's a good one...it took me a sec
@Juan Alvarado iiiii8iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiî8iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Not on your life my british friend
thats like asking if u could break concrete
Are you sure the monorail costs you shared didn’t also include the cost of real estate? I think those costs include the price of easements and purchases of land. If the monorail expansion is kept on property, the cost would be much lower per mile.
That’s what I was thinking. All the comparisons were in cities, not on private property so there’s no doubt they would include costs you wouldn’t incur building on land you already own.
True, but at the same time, is it a double line, or a single one? I'm not sure how that would change anything.
A road also needs easements and a two lane road costs an average of $30 million/mile. Most of the cost is in the grading/surveying/planning/building not land (albeit its still a good chunk of course). It's also far, far, far cheaper to maintain and you can outsource both the buses and road maintenance to outside companies (although don't know if disney does that). It really is clear why they haven't expanded it, they in essence probably consider it more of an attraction then a transportation method at this point.
Love riding the monorail after a long day....another awesome job, thanks Rob!
Can't fathom how a system that is little more than concrete pillars and small concrete tracks would cost $100M/mile, you'd think all of that is easily prefabricated then a relatively easy install process. Oh well, that's why I'm not a civil engineer :D
Also in addition to the cost to build, I wonder how that would impact parking revenue, granted in an ideal world you'd not want such a huge amount of land dedicated to parking but it's not like they're going to fill that space with theme parks or resorts (plenty of space elsewhere). I'm guessing the relatively recent decision to charge for parking at resorts was a direct result of "that's a lot of revenue we're leaving on the table"
You still have to pay to park at your original location. I think the monorail is for the benefit of Park Hoppers. I know I would Park Hop with it.
It wouldn't cost quite that much, those figures are all based on public works in urban areas. Disney building it on their own land would be much cheaper, they basically only need to pay for the actual construction.
Mike B A Chinese car maker named BYD (build your dreams) has there own monorail system and they say it’s only like one-fifth of the cost of a subway. ruclips.net/video/sjRSmgwWMAo/видео.html
Concrete is just expensive to transport and install due to the weight and nature of the material. It's also shit for the environment due to the process of producing lime by literally burning limestone.
Hey Rob, I just wanted to say thank you for your videos! Your style of enthusiasm without the played out “everything is Magic” that most Disney you-tubers have is great to watch!
Thanks for the kind words!
Great video, well done. Just a thought, they'd have plenty of space for a ground rail and stations and I'm sure that would be a fraction of the cost of laying concrete monorails in the sky. Ground rail Transportation could be Electric / solar or maybe even magnetic propelled in this day and age
But you then have the problem of at grade road crossings with traffic signals. At that point just use a bus.
You also have to figure in breakdowns. Without some sort of weird layout, a train breaks down you shut down the system. A bus breaks down other buses go around it.
WEDway Peoplemover
@@MrShugarcube the only way to travel....love it
MrShugarcube Peoplemover systems aren’t really meant for longer transits - hence why in Walt’s plans for EPCOT (the city), they fed into the monorail system.
Now they could do Peoplemover or even automated trams from the resorts to the big stops, using the monorail stations as transit points (a la the TTC). But again, Disney could probably double or triple the number of busses and Minnie vans for what all that would cost, and have plenty of money to spare.
I’m betting Disney wishes they could charge for resort transportation, like they do in Tokyo...
I don’t buy their cost estimates. These are government installs and we all know that a toilet cost $4,000 if a government puts in a new bathroom. I agree buses are cheaper. I think they chose not to expand the monorail because it does not generate money.
His examples were monorails built in cities packed with people and infrastructure that had to be worked around. It likely would’ve cost a fraction of what he estimated. I’m pretty disappointed in this video. Really should’ve talked to someone with knowledge in this field.
Yes it would generate money cause It would get people to the theme parks faster and what do people do at theme parks? Spend money on food and drinks and souvenirs and crap that they don't need. Also don't forget park tickets that people need to buy to get into these theme parks. So the more people in the parks the more money Disney is making form all these guest spending money in the parks. Waiting around for buses is a lose in revenue cause those people aren't at the parks spending money. Instead they are waiting an hour or more at bus stops for buses to pick them up and take them to their destinations.
Gaby Delcristo, plus the extra money from the people staying off property now not sitting in traffic.
Those monorails are always breaking down, they need to fix them first and actually take care of them if they ever want to build more.
I think one of the biggest things that makes Disney Disney is seeing those cool-looking monorails soaring overhead.
The advantage of Monorail is it loads faster and has no stops except where you are headed - Disney put the money into the tracks!
Again let me start by saying you are a breath of fresh air! I love Disney. We don't have cable, just an antenna so RUclips is our #1 entertainment source. I watch a lot of Disney videos but yours are different them most others I see out there. So, two thought about the monorails. First, from the perspective of a 56 year old (born in 1962) from Canada ... a long way from California. I grew up watching Disney every Sunday night on TV. I honestly don't think people could imagine how much I loved that show ... how much it took me to places I would never visit, how it made me dream and truly influenced my thinking for the rest of my life. I dreamed of going to Disneyland ... but there was no way we could a trip like that. When Disney opened in FL, my parents planned a trip for our family. It was the first real family trip we had gone on as my father owned a small family shoe store on Main Street in our small northern town. He just could not shut down the store and leave it for a week. In the spring of 74, we flew out for a week (I left a comment after watching your oil crisis video). I remember the very first thing I saw was the monorail. I had seen it on TV almost every week but now it was right in front of me. Sleek,futuristic ... truly a dream come true. I have tried to visit Disney in FL (still never made it west of the Mississippi) every 5 -10 years. The first thing I look for is still the monorail. All those feelings I felt as a child watching tv (in back and white till we got our first color TV in 1967) come running back. To people from my generation, the monorail is iconic. It represents Disney. When you say Disneyworld (or land), I don't think of buses or gondolas or any other form of transportation ... I think monorail! The value of the monorail can not be just thought of just in dollars. The monorail is part of the magic of Disney.
Now second ..... are buses better???? Not if you are in a wheelchair!!!!!! My partner is paralyzed form the shoulders down as the result of a diving accident when she was 12. She had never traveled as she needs care every 4 - 6 hours in a hospital bed. When we met 10 years ago, I retrofitted an old RV so that it has a wheelchair lift on it, a lift inside to transfer her from the wheelchair into a bed and a hospital bed. We took a trip to Disney about 3 years ago. We stayed in the campground (my first time staying there). Going back and forth to the parks and doing her care takes a lot of time so we got the 10 day hopper pass. The first few days we took the boat to Magic Kingdom. We took the monorail around the park. Super easy to get on and off with and electric wheelchair ... always room ... loved it. We then tried the buses ..... terrible!!!!! Every time we tired it we had to wait for several buses. This is because there are only a few spots for wheelchairs on each bus (they must lock them in). On the average we waited for 5 buses before one came by with an empty wheelchair spot. Then the time it took to get the lift out ... tie in the wheelchair .... and then the reverse when we arrived. With the monorail, no tie downs ... small ramp is pulled out ... drive in ... done! We ended up driving between parks with our wheelchair van. The monorail and for that matter the small boat between the campground and the Magic Kingdom (she just fit on it ... and I mean just ... tight turn getting on), was by far the best way for us to travel.
Final thought ... you could do a video about handicapped accessibility and Disney. I would give it a C ... well maybe a B with some the understanding that it was built in the 70's. She can to not transfer out of her chair without a lift so many (if not most) rides are out. Pirates, Haunted Mansion, People Mover (and I am not even thinking of the obvious ones like Space Mountain, Test Track, Rock and Roll, Tower of Terror, .....) .... all out. Still it is better then Universal. Though we did not go, we were told none of the rides are accessible and they still wanted us to pay full price to visit!
Anyway .... just some thoughts. I love Disney! It will always hold a special place in my heart. We are thinking in the next couple years it will be time to visit again!
Keep up the awesome videos!
Mike
All of this was going to happen 4 to 5 years ago. Siemens who's sponsored spaceship earth was going to sponsor the monorail for it all. They were gonna buy new monorails as well. Last minute disney backed out only because Siemens wanted to have on the side of each car disney world monorail by Siemens. 100% truth Got my start at disney co. Thru monorail transportation. Great work on this video all of the information was spot on. Nicely done.
I heard that too. Which is so strange because all of Disneys rides have sponsors who help pay for the rides upkeep.
@@dolfan29 yea disney just got cold feet. They didn't want something as iconic as the monorail having an association with another company. Literally after that its been nothing but problem after problem. Failing trains and pieces just falling off. The monorail fails everyday it just depends on which train and which track but it goes down everyday.
Haha someone at Disney should have got fired for that decision. What was going to be practically free for them for just some simple advertising is now going to them over a hundred million dollars to build a new Fleet of monorail trains.
@@dolfan29 The problem is there is no such thing as a free lunch. Think of all the sponsored projects that currently are sponsor-less due to companies that have down-sized or failed. How many attractions in Epcot are in jeopardy because the basic funding for upkeep isn't there anymore? Now putting a prime asset on someone else's back may be fine in the short-term but if Siemens suddenly pulled out; Disney is in trouble. Better to manage what you have (even poorly) with known variables than plan around those you don't. In this way Disney is actually running their affairs better than most world governments.
@@thunderfoot11 I'd have to respectfully disagree. The OP above stated themselves (as an insider) that the current monorails breakdown on a daily basis due to their age. It's not even a matter of if or when, it's pretty much an accepted daily occurrence for the park cast members who operate them.
If the promoter company goes belly-up and abandons said up keep, in reality does it even matter? After delivering contracted trains in exchange for free promotion, and this said company disappears, Disney would have to pay the upkeep anyway in the long run especially for a 20 or 30 years stretch. At least they don't have to pay the initial layout of a 100 to 110 million dollars for a new Fleet of trains.
straight up nothing more calming than after a long day at the park getting on a near empty bus back to your resort
Idk if I agree that the buses a “better method of transportation” compared to the monorails. Yeah they’re cheaper and more convenient depending on where you’re staying, but for someone who stays in the Epcot Resort area every year, it would be a lot more convenient to have a monorail to Animal Kingdom (I can live without the one to Hollywood Studios, it’s essentially walking distance from Epcot and where I stay). Having to take the bus if I don’t rent a car is awful because our bus stops at all the resorts around the area and it adds so much time to get there. Plus, the buses are often full so we have to stand going there and back, and after a long day of a lot of walking, that’s pretty much the last thing I want to do.
I feel that the monorail should have another loop (route) that connects various hotels, Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom, Disney Springs, Wide World of Sports and water parks. This would make those hotels more enticing and of course provide more options for late night/early morning visits by these hotel guests.
The Epcot line should run down to the Hollywood Studios, future Brightline Station and Disney Springs. This line needs at least 2 hotels built along its path from the TTC going to Epcot.
A few years back a monorail worker explained a large reason was the funds went towards security and have since been left off the table.
Atmblack03 Disney is looking to cut a lot of costs right now especially with the new raise promised and all of the projects on property, galaxy’s edge, gondola, Coronado springs to name a few.
There is a lot more to a monerail then just the track which factors into the cost per mile (like the trains and stations) since there is already some sort of system, it probably wouldn't be that expensive.
I wish monorails were everywhere!
When I was small I remember being at a Disney World monorail station and a bird flew inside the track. Then the monorail came in while the bird was still down there. I always wondered what happened to it.
I think my favorite part of this was the little jab at Defunctland, since you guys agree so often on the podcast (heavy sarcasm implied)
Despite buses being more efficient, I do think that Disney should try to move forward with more unique modes of transportation to keep the place feeling more magical. Monorails may be too expensive, but I’m glad that the Skyliner is becoming a thing and boats are plentiful. Buses should certainly NOT go away as they are the most practical, but it’s nice having the option to travel through multiple means
Love ya Rob. However, on this one I gotta say: Nope. And I enjoy reading all the comments that start out with, "I love the monorail as much as anybody but.....". Nope on all them, too. Clearly y'all DON'T "love it as much as everybody" 'cos if you DID there wouldn't be a "but" which would go on to dismantle what you just claimed.
And insofar as cost, Reedy Creek is its own taxing district, correct? So every single postcard, plush doll, or resort stay COULD have a "Monorail Tax" applied to it to fund the entire thing 100%, couldn't it?
And if there is to be a lateral (east-west) line, wouldn't it make sense to send it all the way from DAK & HS to Lake Buena Vista, Hotel Plaza, Downtown Disney? Just create a new "TTC II" at Epcot's station? Or better still, run the east-west line along/around/over World Showcase and the World Gateway entrance.
And wouldn't creating all that extra beamway (not track, folks) create development opportunities for more Deluxe Level Resorts and the premium they command BECAUSE it's on a monorail?
^^^^THAT^^^, Ladies & Gentlemen, is what "someone who loves the monorails as much as the next guy" says. Without a "but".
I disagree that we somehow don't love the monorail as much just because we're willing to accept some realistic logistical road blocks, but each their own. RCID can tax the district land owners (Disney), but the monorail isn't built or operated by the RCID, so they wouldn't be the ones using money to build a new line. Disney could always just raise the prices of everything at Disney as a "monorail tax", but that doesn't change that it would face scrutiny for being a poor use of the revenue. It's not just a matter of the monorail being expensive. It's a matter of it being especially expensive when compared to other efficient forms of transportation.
An East-West line with a transfer at Epcot's station means a monorail guest going to the Magic Kingdom needs to take three monorails to get there. Compared to one bus that can go direct from A to B, for far cheaper, it's just not a worthy use of the money. After all, part of what creates that demand for resort rooms on the monorail loop isn't just that there's a monorail attached, but that it's a short single 5 minute ride to the park. If Disney felt that the revenue from additional further monorail resorts would be enough to justify the cost, we would have seen a resort or two along the Epcot line.
Ultimately, I love the monorail. However loving it doesn't mean ignoring it's fault or ignoring better forms of transport just for the sake of getting more of it. It serves a specific, but limited, purpose. Disney would be better off putting some TLC into what's there, and looking to newer better forms of transport into other regions of the resort, which is what we're seeing with the gondolas.
But what if I say "I don't like the monorail"
I love how his videos sounds like high school essays 💖 So eloquent!
One way of making this more reasonable is building new Monorail resorts. The amount people would pay to be in a new Monorail resort would be astronomical.
Some of the existing resorts could be monorail resorts, which would bring in a premium. Animal Kingdom Lodge has always been the one Deluxe resort that's been hardest to get to and from; making it the terminus of an east-west line would make it all the more attractive. Coronado Springs would be another logical one for that route.
@@MattMcIrvin absolutely
@@MattMcIrvin
There's quite a few others as well. The Disney Frontier Lodge _just_ missed out on it, since it's right across the street from the Transportation and Ticket Center. And a line extension to Hollywood Studios would pass right by the Dolphin and Swan concept resorts. Coronado Springs would work as well, though you'd have to choose between it or Blizzard Beach. It makes more sense to connect to Coronado Springs anyway, since then it's a straight shot to the entrance to Animal Kingdom and the Animal Kingdom Lodge, whereas if the line connected to Blizzard Beach it would have to run past the Animal Kingdom parking lot.
Unfortunately though Port Orleans, Saratoga, Fort Wilderness, Caribbean Beach, Art of Animation and Pop Century are just too out of the way to be worth connecting. But the Yacht Club and Boardwalk share a lot with the Dolphin and Swan and would thus essentially gain access by default.
99k!! We're so close! Keep up the good work man!
The monorail in Springfield was only three million dollars, Simpsons reference
But main streets still all cracked and broken
@@bobapjok4241 Sorry mom the mob has spoken
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide electrified, six-car monorail!
Is there a chance those tracks could bend?
Not on your life my Hindu friend🎵
Monorail, from the Latin "mono", meaning one, and "rail", meaning...rail.
I've also thought that it would be cool to connect the Skyliner at the south end of Epcot to the main entrance of Epcot with the monorail station by an indoor peoplemover to completely connect the entire Disney transportation system.
Congrats on 100k Rob. Been a fan since the Minecraft days and fellow 100k club member :)
Thanks! Still got a little ways to go (~350). RUclips likes to tease me by rounding up!
They could still eventually make a circular track around the parks
Excellent video, but I think you missed an opportunity when talking about the original Epcot monorail. Logistically, expanding the monorail to HWS and AK doesn't really make sense, as the hub is the TTC all the way in the north. The idea of having central theme park parking at a location other than the TTC and having monorail lines go to all the parks would be pretty cool, but it would be an overhaul of the system already in place which clearly was built on the original Epcot model.
From the original Epcot model the land immediately to the east of the MK parking lot and World Dr was reserved for building an additional theme park. More or less some of the ideas for a theme park to build on that land morphed into the larger park of Animal Kingdom that was built elsewhere on Disney property that we have today where there was more land available to build on (not to mention the fact that the MK parking lot really can't handle the parking for an additional theme park). Some fans have proposed elsewhere on the internet moving the MK parking lot to the land to the west of MK closer to the park and use moving walkways and a mini Downtown Disney (Disney Springs) shopping area [e.g. like Universal City Walk] from a parking lot there to the entry plaza at MK to alleviate stress on the monorail system and make it quicker for guests who drive to get into the MK. Presently that would not make much sense for Disney because it would only push the parking further to the north on land that is VERY swampy and would be very expensive to shore up even for a massive parking lot.
It will be interesting to see what comes of Brightline (now to be renamed Virgin Trains USA with Sr. Richard Branson's recent minority ownership acquisition). They have submitted a proposal to FDOT to build a higher speed rail line between Orlando and Tampa along the I-4 corridor and some of those plans have a proposed stop for Disney World. If that comes to fruition it will be interesting to see where they put the Disney World stop. My guess would be they come up with an agreement with Disney to build a train station on some of the land in Osceola county south of US 192 that Walt had on his plans in 1966 for an "airport of the future". Another likely spot for a station would be on the land east of the ESPN Wild World of sports complex between I-4 and south of Osceola Pkwy. If that does happen Disney would likely need to think about creating a southern hub for their transportation network (and Walt's original plan for Disney World shown briefly in Rob's video above was to have a welcome center -- a transportation hub -- for guests on the south end of the property).
Thanks for the elaboration, I wasn't aware of a lot of this information. As someone who is really interested in the logistics of how Disney runs its property, I find the history and speculation interesting. I wasn't aware of any rumors regarding the I-4 route stopping at Disney, but as a Tampa local, I have to admit, you're getting me excited. I absolutely hate I-4.
Me and my whole family went to disney world when I was ten. I was more than excited and getting on the monorail to get to the magic kingdom is sealed in my brain. Right after we got on, someone from the monorail asked me, my brother and cousins if we wanted to ride in the front car. It was so exciting seeing the park for the first time from the front of the monorail.
MORE MONORAILS NOW
I talked with people at Disney World and they also said that when a Monorail train breaks down the entire system is down and cannot move people. If a bus breaks down they just radio for anther bus and keep moving people, that does not stop other busses from transporting guests. With the bus system at the end of a night the Magic Kingdom can move 20,000 people away from the park in about 10 minutes, no way you are doing that with a Monorail.
They would not be able to move 20,000 people away from park in 10 minutes on buses. Just one bus alone takes 20- 30 minutes to arrive to pick people up. Monorails are faster.
I got a question: Will Disney ever make another ride without being based on an ip? Those are the best
Haunted Mansion
Pirates of the Caribbean
Space Mountain
etc.
My theory: Yes, but not until after Iger steps down as CEO, and even then it might be a while.
@@MidwaytoMainStreet omg, I didn't think you would answer
Good thing we have the sky liner now!
I'm a little disappointed with the comparisons in this video. Mumbai is one of the densest cities in the whole world. Surely, the open spaces in Walt Disney world would allow a much cheaper price per mile per mile than the other systems that you're comparing. Also, I would assume that there's far less regulations for Disney world to deal with considering they own the whole place.
True. They need to suck it up and just run monorail to all the parks. That's what most people want, and they can afford it.
The end credits video in the bus brings back such good memories. When you’re on the bus arriving at one of the parks, such joy! Also wow, your research is very good.
Do you happen to know why the parks are so spread out? Seems like the monorail idea would make way more sense if they were closer together.
Hi rob. I like your videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and information about Walt Disney World, and all the other Disney parks and properties. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Bob!
Nothing says innovative and cutting edge like a cable car system and buses....
Sarcasm aside, the only way I ever see Disney adding a monorail to another park would be if the new line had a “monorail hotel” at every mile marker to make their money back.
Fantastic video man! Very well thought out. Keep up the great work.
They don't have to build it all in one year. Wonder if they'll build new roads for the automated vehicles? Imagine if Disney had built the airport. That's what he was looking for. No rental car needed, people to stay onsite without leaving.
They could add a monorail stop to wilderness Lodge tbh
I think lots of people would like to rent a bike instead of driving to connect theme park and ride around the resort ... it’s cheap to make and with scenery it could be an activity itself !
I disagree on your thought. Not sure if you've been to Disney World before but the road system between most of the resorts [minus the Epcot resorts] and the parks is not designed for pedestrians or bikes -- it's not safe for that. Also in many cases it is just too darn far for the liking of most guests to even bike between their destinations (especially in the HOT and very sticky humidity of the summer months in FL. Oh and did anyone mention the plentiful gully washer afternoon T-storms in FL... it's bad enough if you get stuck outside waiting for the monorail [I have before]. I can't imagine getting stuck in weather like that while trying to bike somewhere with millions of tourists everywhere driving around in unfamiliar roads. It sounds like such a fun activity! But to each their own. )
@@skidude02Good points, also bikes are a very European solution to the problem, unfortunately by DW being in America, it just isn't gonna happen.
To whoever decided to expand transport with "Minnie" Vans....I salute you sir O__O
I feel like tram would be a perfect public transportation method for disney world. It's built on mostly flat ground so you could put lines pretty much anywhere you wanted. Tram tracks and power lines are much cheaper than monorails and of course, unlike buses and cars trams don't use fossil fuels which would both give disney some good publicity and save them money because electricity is cheaper than diesel. Also, and this is just my personal opinion, to me trams just look much cleaner and neater than a giant fleet of buses.
Except Trams are not used much in the US due to the unrestricted electrical lines that are used to run them (that's a big no-no here) . Also anything on ground level means installing guarded crossings which increase the local traffic and the possibility of accidents. And graded crossings and trains are just bad, trains (including trams) don't climb very efficiently and graded crossings are expensive to build and maintain (just like monorail track).
@@thunderfoot11 I literally live in a city with insanely dense tram network and I can tell you it doesn't really worsen the traffic that much. Also if you had trams between the parks they could just go on empty land or parallel to roads and not interfere with cars at all. Also not to mention tram lines are like 6 meters in the air, killing yourself on one of them is pretty much impossible and I would argue that it's safer to have electrical lines several meters in the air in unpopulated area of a theme park than it is to have guns at every single walmart, but than again America has never been the most sensible of countries
@@Laurabeck329 And in Europe, it works. The problem is what percentage of the population in that city regularly uses auto transportation on a daily basis. In the US it's above 75%. With the exception of New York City, the percentage of citizens that own and operate motor vehicles is very high, mostly because people that work in the city live elsewhere; it's why mass transportation systems in the US do very little to alleviate traffic flow. The tram lines in the air aren't the problem, it's when the violent weather we have puts those same lines on the ground. Hurricanes are a regular occurrence in Florida, not so much in Europe. Likewise while not as likely in Florida, tornadoes are also a thing, again, not so much in Europe. Also the amount of electrical storms in the US is higher than in Europe. Quite literally you would be more likely to get killed by an electrical storm if we had a European style electrical system than by firearm fatality. As for the unpopulated area of the theme park, we are discussing getting from one are to another, the are in between isn't populated but there are several major county and state highways that you would have to contend with.
It really is a case of apples and oranges, I've lived in Europe, the mass transit system works there, in the US, not so much (sure larger cities like NYC, Chicago and LA) but Orlando is built upon the concept of urban sprawl. The amount of people that live in the Orlando area is large, but the space occupied is much larger than a comparable European city. If your only concept of life in the US is from news and Hollyweird, I can understand your confusion, but honestly, it just isn't gonna fly.
Also, this would be a good segue to talking about the proposed Brightline Station at WDW in the future. Let’s talk about that!
Good vid. Logical assumptions and analysis, though it doesn't address the "show" aspects of the transportation system.
Would love a vid on the reason for no "in-park" transportation in any of the post-MK parks (of course EPCOT has/had limited transpo around World Showcase).
Would also love to hear why the Peoplemover system was never used as an actual transportation system, as the Walt-era EPCOT plans clearly show the intent to use them as such.
Hollywood Studios, when it was "Disney/MGM", was designed originally with the idea that the back section would be working studios with a tram tour like Universal Hollywood's. I imagine they thought that was all the in-park transit they needed there, since it's a small park.
Animal Kingdom actually did have the little steam train going back to Rafiki's Planet Watch (though I guess that's closed down, at least for the time being). There also used to be a water taxi of sorts going around the central Discovery Island, but it stopped running because of low ridership and the general expectation that it would be an attraction with something to see (there wasn't much).
Probably because it's the kind of thing you have to factor into the initial plans for a park, it'd be just too much of a hassle for Disney to demolish entire sections of park just to make some kind of train loop in an existing park.
More recent aerial photography shows Disney demolished all of the guest buildings for the Rafiki's Planet watch area that the train tracks go to. They didn't demolish the train station and they still list the area on the park's website but it is presently closed to guests. Disney obviously has something else in mind for developing on that area where the train goes to.
I knew someone who drove the water taxi boats at AK when they were operating. They closed them down like you said because there wasn't much to see and Disney at the time didn't want to pay to keep dredging the waterways to keep the boats from getting stuck in the mud for the low ridership.
ahhh so close to 100K rob!!
so happy for you and this channel!
Thanks!
Quick follow up, my notifications for you are working now!
I still miss the Mark IV monorail trains, with the pneumatic door poppers, and the rhythmic slamming of doors indicating you were about to depart for the next stop!!!!
Good times back then . . . . good times!
Could you cover the reason why a lot of Disney merchandise doesn't have a trademark/copywrite year ?
I've come up with the conclusion that Disney doesn't want to date themselves (make themselves old) but that's just me
Merchandise can have a trademark without listing a year. Copyrights do have dates, but you don’t copyright merchandise. Merchandise can have a design patent, and characters like Mickey Mouse are also protected, but they do not have dates on every item either.
@@BradHouser Gold star for you Brad. :) @Alana W If you check your videos or books you'll see copyright dates; Trademarks and Registered trademarks have never carried dates as far as I can tell. As an aside that's one reason many collectables have started putting a date mark on them - to make them collectable. :/ (redundant see redundant).
TBF, the Friendship boats do offer connection from EPCOT to Hollywood Studios. Although Animal Kingdom is still left out.
If you combine boat, skyliner, and monorail, you can access probably 2/3 of the resorts, 3/4 theme parks, and much more.
other reasons they aren't gonna add it one the gondola will be going to hollywood studios and for the animal kingdom they said it disturbs the animals and makes to much noise for a monorail to be there
DynamicPython monorail makes too much noise at animal kingdom? As opposed to the 638 diesel busses rolling in and out?
Indianapolis had 1.5 miles of monorail that cost $44 million to build in the early 2000’s. It was a private build but the long term plans were for downtown Indy to add to it and run out to the airport. It shut down in February.
Rob, gotta say, this is BY FAR the best price analysis of the what the new monorails would cost that I have ever seen. Truly awesome work 👏
Thanks Michael! Also have a fantastic cruise!
Thank you! 🎄🚢❄️
One thing that is not mentioned is that in Los Angeles and Dubai, the land has to be purchased. That is surely included in the cost per mile. If Disney already owns the land, that save a lot of money. I think the price analysis is therefore incomplete. How much is the cost of construction itself?
@@BradHouser I was going to point out the same thing; in addition, Disney would have the opportunity to connect the monorail with additional resorts, or at another "TTC" equivalent central to many other resorts, allowing Disney to get a higher per-room, per-night price for some of those other resorts.
All good points for something I've often wondered about. Those costs are insane!
Whatever the reasons for the monorail issues, I know the buses are as magic-killing as transportation gets. Crowded, suffocating and slow, going through offstage areas and past McDonald's. Starting or ending your frightfully expensive vacation day with all the magic of going to work.
I hope that the gondola system is the alternative they need. One advantage of the monorail is that everyone of all abilities can easily board, but with buses, each individual chair or scooter requires attention by the driver to secure in place. That seems as little as any corporation could do to get away with the definition of accessibility. Gondolas will presumably be designed for freedom and accessibility for all, and bring back some of the Disney charm in the process.
Great info. Thanks!
Rob, Why does Disney Hollywood studios and Animal Kingdom close so much earlier than Magic Kingdom or Epcot?
Presumably DAK closes so they can take the animals to their pens and put them to sleep, no idea why Hollywood studios closes early.
Yes DAK closes when it does to allow the animals to sleep.
Hollywood Studios early closing times are in part more so the nighttime shows with fireworks at Epcot don't interfere with Fantasmic at DHS. (The viewing area for Fantasmic at DHS faces where fireworks at World Showcase Lagoon in EPCOT during the nighttime spectacular would be visible). However the bigger issue is traffic management. If DHS and Epcot were to close at the same time it would have created MASSIVE gridlock on Buena Vista Drive and to some extent Epcot Ctr. Drive. The previous main exit for the DHS parking lot on Buena Vista Dr. (and the road systems around DHS park in general) was not well thought out for expansion in the immediate area. Disney just very recently opened a new main entrance and exit to the DHS parking with an interchange at Osecola Pwky and Victory Way to try to redirect the traffic away from Buena Vista Dr instead to Osecola Pwky (which is built like a highway to handle much more traffic) and to allow for construction of their Star Wars hotel and new cast member parking for DHS.
AK Closes at the time it does cause the cast members need daylight to be able to clean the animals enclosures and not every part closes necessarily at the same time. I know this cause this is what a cast member told me when I asked why Rafiki's was closed when the park was still open for another 2 hours.
Well analyzed. Great video as always
Why aren't there more monorail tracks??? We need more tracks we need them now.
Walt didn't build a bus depot in his backyard, he built a miniature train system.
I want a fully autonomous car with oversized mouse ears on top to take me from my hotel straight to the magic kingdom!
Probably closer to fruition than more monorails.
Omg! call them Mouseabiles!
They should make a second monorail resort loop around bay lake
Who in the he’ll wants to pay for all that track lmao??
What a about a train/monorail Hybrid. A train would be cheaper to build and run than a monorail, but it could be built to look like a monorail, and be called a monorail. Technically it would still be a train, but to most people, they would consider it a monorail. It wouldn’t be as cool as an actual monorail, but it would still be a better way to transport people than busses. Another thing to consider is that the monorail and transportation at WDW in general isn’t just park for park hopping, its also largely about getting people from the hotels to the parks
I disagree.....monorails are a good idea unless the busses and cabs are electric
Nice old footage of the Seattle Monorail at the 1962 Worlds Fair!
That monorail also has some growth problems - in the 50+ years since it was built, it's seen a massive addition of... zero stops to its track! That's a far cry from the original plan which was to have it go all the way down to the airport.
It's always funny (and kind of sad) to hear the little announcement though - "last stop!" it says when pulling into... either of its two stops.
It is my understanding that Disney employed a real urban transportation consultant from San Francisco and gave him a blue sky opportunity to plan out the transportation in Walt Disney World for the next several decades. Both the Minnie Vans and the Skyliner came out of the planning, and both seem like much better and more cost effective ways to meet the current and future needs of Walt Disney World than extending the monorail. I love the monorail as much as anyone, but I’m glad to see that Disney is continuing to invest in a mass transit network that is innovative, entertaining, effective, and cost-effective.
Scott Atwood yes, it is most cost-effective however does not capture the spirit of Disney where you enter a world that is ideal and not the one you left.
It'll be interesting to see if the Skyliner actually works as a transportation system. If the capacity isn't high enough to keep long lines from forming, it might be enervating to take a trip that involves multiple transfers. And that's before even considering the lack of real A/C, which has a lot of people nervous.
As a big fan of gondola skyways, though, I hope it is viable and doesn't just get torn down in a few years.
Austin Bounce House Rentals I do think the Skyliner does capture some of the spirit of Disney. After all, the Skyway was an iconic part of both Disneyland and Magic Kingdom for many years. And anything that provides a viable alternative to buses, which are distinctly not magical, is good from my perspective.
Matt McIrvin My biggest concern is that the International Gateway at Epcot was only designed to accommodate the Epcot area resorts, and not all of the resorts served by the Skyliner. I’m not sure how they’ll manage it without adding additional turnstiles, either by demolishing part of the restroom/gift shop building or by routing people through and new route to the west of the building.
While monorails are impractical I don't believe trains are. While visiting Japan I was impressed on how efficient and pedestrian friendly the public transport was. Of course Disney could have been more innovative with transportation like current fed waterways, etc yet then they wouldn't profit as much off of associated auto fees.
I've always been excited to ride the Disney buses. Only thing I would like them to change is to lower the AC, it can be very chilly in there!
The skyliner cable cars will be doing basically the same amount of transport at a cost of only a couple hundred million
But monorails won't hurtle you to your death
Marc Colten Well technically they can....
Marc Colten Give them time...
No AC on any transport in Florida means "no way in hell"
i mean with how high in the air it is i don't really think you'll need ac
In the first mini models of Disney World, not the original plan of Walt Disney for Epcot, there was a monorail line linking TTC to the then called Buena Vista Village, now Disney Springs.
You forgot Bobby Igey's personal monorail, piloted by Keanu Reeves. Really Rob, I'm disappointed ;)
And that’s why bob won’t hire you guys....
Another way in which the biz model of the park changed was WDW was initially a drive to destination. Pack up the family station wagon & off you go. Now you can fly there with vacation packages. As they say...getting there is half the fun. Yes! That gentle curve of the original line would have been ideal. Like a point to point railroad. Wherever you put turns & switches in a layout, it drives up the cost.
Hi Rob,
I believe that the monorail works more like a mega Disney attraction than just a connecting vehicle between parks and resorts. The monorail itself works as an immense attraction to Disney fans. The investment would be the same as the construction of a new and fantastic attraction.
The approach to the monorail theme was excellent and the theme even better.
They are building some form of suspension gondola system in stead of adding monorails. I believe they have already started some construction of the pillars for it in Orlando
There is something to say around attaching a circular line between Disney springs, epcot, boardwalk, hollywood studios, animal kingdom lodge and animal kingdom. You would continue to make epcot a hub which linked to magic kingdom. This would reduce traffic which is already heavy at Disney springs whilst also increasing the value of two deluxe resorts. I think this would of been better than the planned cable car
One other purpose for the monorail not mentioned is when they tell day guests to park at EPCOT because MK parking is full.
It still never seems like they run enough buses at the right time. I've missed out on many morning EMH because only one bus comes and then 30 minutes later another comes. We then see buses for other places in between (who the hell goes to DTD at 8am?)
Great video! All your footage of transportation vehicles really came in handy for this one.
That defuctland jab LUL
The cost would likely be less than the average due to the fact that Disney already owns all the land. A big, big cost factor in public works is getting the right way. Though the rest is correct since park hopping isn't exactly a thing and since most of the inpark hotels aren't connected to the monorail the system would have less benefit than would be desired. Maybe if they committed to building an in park airport/with accommodations it would make sense to include a major expansion in the monorail system.
I know they’re at least adding a new transportation system for the Epcot/Hollywood studio area! They’re putting in a gondola system that’ll connect all the all-star resorts, the boardwalk, and Epcot/Hollywood Studios
I think you made a good point with the budget for monorails only able to go to the other parks. With the new transportation (gondolas), that opens up more opportunity to reach the other parks as well as connecting Parks. The sad thing is that the company added yet another transportation to Epcot and DHS when we already have three other options. Maybe one day DAK will get more love. Great video as always!
I agree it's probably not plausible now, but with how close the Studios is to Epcot, I feel like they could have extended the line at least to there back when they were building the park. Also, I think they desperately need to replace the fleet. I'll be honest, I do everything I can to try to avoid riding the buses, so at least they're giving us more options there
Disney had plans to expand the monorail to the Studios when they were planning to build it along with an extension to then phase 1 of Disney Village / later renamed Downtown Disney / and now named Disney Springs. They also were trying to get a monorail/ train direct from Orlando International airport to the Walt Disney World property but plans for that fell through with pushback from voters on a ballot initiative in the Orlando area at the time [fed by anti Disney train propaganda from I-Drive business owners and Universal who was building their Universial Studios Florida park to the north.] Disney didn't fight the pushback much and refocused their efforts heavily on making sure to open their Studios park before Universal opened theirs and went with building the huge fleet of the cheaper buses rather than expanding the monorail. I'm glad with the Skyliner system they are finally trying alternative transportation between parks and the resorts again rather than just buying more buses.
What you gain with a monorail is a great view of the park use of land under the track reliability and low running costs. 👍🏴🇬🇧🤠
During the “Backstage Magic Tour” our guide mentioned that the swamp land and costs associated with building on that type of land would just be too great.
I don't know when I first rode the monorail at Disney, but it was from Disney Hotel to the main entrance of Disneyland. I first visited Disneyland in the summer of !955. The parking lot was in front of the main entrance and extended to Katella Avenue.
I stumbled upon this video almost 2 and a half years later in 2021, and as an undergrad studying economics, I understand the cost argument. I understand too that along with the construction costs, there's also maintenance for the tracks which is definitely a factor when considering an expansion.
However, Disney did just spend $2 billion building 2 Galaxy Edges and undisclosed amounts (probably $100-$600 million on each for the Avengers Campus, the Tron Rollercoaster at Magic Kingdom, their expansion at DisneySea, and more they have planned, so I feel the cost argument should be tossed to the side. The monorail tracks currently have 3 lines: the resort monorails, the TTC straight to Magic Kingdom and back, and the TTC to EPCOT and back. The last expansion of the tracks was almost 40 years ago in 1982 with the opening of EPCOT, so I think they are due for one. Along with this, the monorails are more efficient at transporting guests and carry (on average) roughly 50,000 more passengers daily than other WDW transportation (buses, ferries, etc.).
I personally don't think a possible expansion to the monorail system would go only to Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom as shown in the video, but instead, go to Disney Springs. Disney Springs is arguably the largest bus hub on the property, is close to many of the resort's hotels, lots of parking that non-resort guests could park at, as well as shopping and food for possible park-hoppers or people at WDW for a day trip. Along with that, Disney would only need to have a loop from EPCOT to Disney Springs which would be roughly 5-9 miles (depending on the station's location) instead of the 12 miles proposed in the video.
By doing this, Disney could add at least another 2 monorails to their lineup and could probably decrease the number of buses that go from Disney Springs to either EPCOT, the TTC, the Magic Kingdom, or the resorts along the Magic Kingdom Monorail Loop and instead allocate them towards Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios and their respective resorts. This would decrease travel time all around WDW, and it also allows for an alternative way for the Magic Kingdom Resort guests to get to Disney Springs for the new railroad that is being constructed to go to Orlando International Airport allowing for quicker travel to and from the airport. The Disney Gondola has also had rumored expansion to go to Animal Kingdom and Disney Springs too and having a monorail station at Disney Springs would connect the north to south and the east to west of the park with the buses connecting everything else for even better transportation around the property.
The only issue with this that I could see at the moment for Disney about what I proposed is that pre-COVID, the Magic Kingdom typically had extended hours till 12am, and guests could stay in the park until 1am, which is 2-3 hours longer than most of Disney Springs and EPCOT are open for. This means that Disney would have to keep the Magic Kingdom-EPCOT and EPCOT-Disney Springs monorail tracks open and running until 2am (1 hour after Magic Hours end per Disney guidelines) even though EPCOT and Disney Springs would've been closed for a couple of hours at that point, which is not very efficient as monorails after 12am are typically sparsely populated. This means it is likely not cost-effective for Disney to operate those monorail lines with the amount of power they use. The simple workaround to this would be to extend Disney Springs and EPCOT's operational hours which does allow for more late-night income, but it does mean more expenses for Disney with wages, power, trash, water, etc which would add up pretty quickly.
Sorry for the long spiel, but as you can see, I'm pretty passionate about Disney and WDW and just want them to be successful and keep their guests happy for the long run. Disney has definitely focused more on its infrastructure in recent years with their expansion of Avatar, Star Wars, Toy Story, Disney Springs, and upcoming EPCOT overhaul, and I think its monorails could definitely use an expansion to alleviate the massive fleet of buses the WDW property has and diminish travel times around the parks and think Disney Springs is probably the best spot for this expansion.