In the episode Chain of Command, the first thing Edward Jellico does when he takes command of the Enterprise is to switch to a 4 shift watch rotation, so safe to say that Picard used a 3 shift system.
@@andrewholdaway813 If it's anything like modern military shifts they're most likely something like day shift 8AM-5PM, night shift 4PM-1AM, swing shift 12AM-9AM. That way each shift overlaps the next and previous by an hour so the personnel ending their shift have time to brief the personnel coming on shift. 4 shifts would probably be 5 hours long instead of 9.
@ Most likely some of the crew pulled two opposing shifts with downtime in between to make sure as many people were rested and ready for emergency action as possible.
Regading the idea of a pool table, I think my new head canon is that Ten Forward was to be fitted with a Dom-Jot table, but this was cancelled by Picard, citing previous negative experiences with the game.
The most fascinating thing about Ten-Forward to me is how the official Enterprise-D blueprints show no public heads anywhere near it. I imagine the turbo lift near the exit gets peed in a lot.
@@chrissmith7669 synthehol does canonically have an intoxicant effect, it’s just less intense than alcohol and can be easily shaken off. Honestly it sounds better than alcohol.
Lowering the main seating area makes some amount of sense, as it'd also let the patrons at the bar look over the heads of those seated at tables to see out the window. IRL, the Ten Forward set was built to connect to the existing short hallway set outside of the senior officers' quarters, built during season 1, so they were locked into the floor height by the doors. They can go up from there by building a platform, but they can't go down without digging into the sound stage's floor.
1:43 I don’t think it was mentioned in terms of Starfleet as a whole, but I think the Enterprise-D was on a three shift rotation until Jellico wanted it changed to a four shift. Kira also mentioned her support for a four shift rotation in “Starship Down”, so DS9 was on a three at that point too.
I was about to post about this. I assume that shift rotations are down to the individual captain's and the ship. But at least, yes, we do know that the Enterprise was a three shift rota until after Best of Both Worlds.. Considering how by the book Jelico was; I expect that the default recommend from Starfleet was a four shift, but Picard had a three to probably better match the civilian passengers/families.
An interesting thing about three shift vs four shift on DS9 is that DS9 operates on a Bajoran day....which is 26 hours. A four shift is evenly divided in 6.5 hours vs 8.6 hours on a three shift rotation.
Always interesting! Elaborating on your point about the saucer rim thickness, I've read that Andrew Probert, the original designer of the D, intended it to be one deck tall at the rim, with small lounges featuring both the upper and lower windows split by the phaser array strip. It'd be interesting to see what the originally envisioned lounges would look like, if you ever felt like rendering it.
Apparently part of the original conception of the Enterprise D is that there would be all sorts of lounge type spaces scattered throughout the ship, and you do catch glimpses of this here and there, especially in season 1. But obviously nothing as elaborate as 10 Forward. Incidentally, I think it's reasonable to assume that not all the shifts are equal. As seen in Data's Day, there is a "Night watch" where lights get dimmed, and one assumes that a lot of the science labs, etc would go unstaffed during this time.
Plus I am sure they didn't have counselors in the TOS era remember when Troi told Riker in ENT how the ship's galley chef was the closest they had to a counselor back then.
10-forward is also used as the president's office in Star Trek 6. They even left on the door windows with the 24th century Starfleet symbol on them too
It would make sense that there would several lounges that the crew could use. With most of the senior staff preferring this one in 9 aft where they play D&D all night.
Technically it also appeared in a dream sequence Picard had in Star Trek Picard. I can't remember the source for this but there might be another bar near the main shuttle bay. The same in Deep Space Nine there are replicators in rooms & the promenade has Replimat, Quark's Bar and food places. You have the choice to have replicated food or real food in your quarters or other places as mentioned. Which can include not being alone or socialising Or if you're not near your quarters.
In the episode with Captain Jellico, LaForge mentions the stress of shifting from a 3-shift structure under Picard to the 4-shift rotation as ordered by Jellico.
I love your videos on the TOS tv and later movie studio shooting sets. I'm looking forward to video showing how the movie sets were changed and evolved for TNG, and later on, VOY. It looks like you are on your way. Fantastic Video!!
I've always thought that an "Enterprise Experience" meaning a recreation of the Enterprise D as an enclosed hotel with a recreated ten-forward as its main restaurant would make tons of money.
Everyone mentions this immediately, Chains of Command, jellimould switch to a four shift whatsit from an eight shift whatsit, so a shift in TNG is three hours. Also, in my HC there's a non-com bar called the Warp Core Beach.
Btw Ten Forward came back in the first episode of Picard, and calling Ten Forward a bar is just an understatement. Its more of a Pub in the traditional sense, a Bar is just too much of a sleezy or upscale place. Whereas a Pub is more of a community hub for PUBLIC space. As its also a formal reception area for the ship.
Stellar (LOL) animations of the D! ...One thing I've wondered....was there a 'Nine-Forward' above Ten-Forward? Seems like there would be a 'mirror' of 10-F in 9-F based on the windows above the center line of the dish. Or could that have been an officer's club? (Starfleet never seemed to divide officer and enlisted social situations the way real-world militaries do).
The blueprints do show a lounge on deck 9 at the front, a large centralised room with tables and chairs. What it might be called is anyone's guess. 9-Forward is as good a name as any.
Squeezing a similar room into the space above TenForward would be tricky due to the latter's high ceiling height. A cramped observation suite might just be possible I suppose...
It was never said to be that. But it is not a stretch to imagine that 10-Forward was the agreed upon place for the senior crew to hang out at. Much like in real life in some cities, certain bars are frequented by certain groups of people. Police, Firefighters, Jocks, Pilots, etc, etc.
Hee. Always an important set to have, some kind of bar. I think the 'use of a bartender' apart from obvious social functions, could well be that those replicators behind he bar are set so they produce real alcohol as well as synth and therefore it's good to have a real person supervising how much people are getting and on what occasions, since navies tend to have rules about such things.
It's also good to mention how a handful of TNG Episodes mimic old Episodes of "The Love Boat" whenever they needed to produce a one off Episode on a smaller budget with guest stars to save money overall during any given season. The poolside bar was always a central set piece for "The Love Boat".
Although as others have commented, the bar does have real alcohol, I see two other reasons for having servers. First, for the atmosphere, and second, it also ensures an individual does not over serve themselves.
I am mystified by the side-walls of the window bays. How does the room end there? I know they sometimes used mirrors on set somehow but I never understood why or how.
I too have always wondered why there would be bar staff when all you need to do is tell a replicator what you want. Of course, the real world reason was that Whoopi Goldberg REALLY wanted a part in the show as she is a big Trek fan. According to the blueprints, and the Stage9 Enterprise D walkaround before it got short sightedly C&Ded by CBS bullies the rim of the saucer section is pretty much populate by lounges and conference suites.
The windows on Starfleet ships and shuttles is Transparent Aluminium and yes they break, in Star Trek: Lower Decks a shuttle that was seen crashed into a Cave showed its windows broken, who knows maybe starship Windows are double glazed or strengthened further. Interestingly there is Transparent Aluminium in real life, it’s called aluminium but I don’t think it is the metal Aluminium, maybe some properties of it?
Not sure if it's official but I gather that the Enterprise D had other bars/open lounges with replicators. I'd speculate that Ten-forward was meant for senior staff and their family and VIP guests, not every Tom, Dick and Harry.
I like your videos but the music is still a bit loud. It's not good music so would probably be best just not having music if balancing music versus speech is an issue.
I don't know how you record this, but your videos always are so hard to hear. Your voice is VERY muddled. I have to turn the volume up high, and it's still hard to understand you!
Would've we, the audience, really cared if the model of the Enterprise didn't have ten-forward windows? I for one cared a lot more about the fact that the, already disproportionately large, saucer was made even thicker. I hate that 4' model, especially when shown in that 3/4 profile, ventral saucer shot. Look at all those raised hull plates 🤮. The saucer looks like something out of star wars.
Well I certainly didn't hate it. I always enjoy your stuff. This is one of the weaker vids you have produced however. You can't be running out of ideas already? Right? 😊
In the episode Chain of Command, the first thing Edward Jellico does when he takes command of the Enterprise is to switch to a 4 shift watch rotation, so safe to say that Picard used a 3 shift system.
Wonder how that worked
@@andrewholdaway813 If it's anything like modern military shifts they're most likely something like day shift 8AM-5PM, night shift 4PM-1AM, swing shift 12AM-9AM. That way each shift overlaps the next and previous by an hour so the personnel ending their shift have time to brief the personnel coming on shift. 4 shifts would probably be 5 hours long instead of 9.
@@r.l.royalljr.3905
333 crew per watch being cut to 250 though?
@ Most likely some of the crew pulled two opposing shifts with downtime in between to make sure as many people were rested and ready for emergency action as possible.
Also DS9 mentions moving to a 4 shift permanently after a trial.
There was "real" booze behind the counter. In "Relics" Data gives Scotty a bottle of Aldebran Whiskey "It is... it is green".
But that bottle was there because Picard put it there. Something in how Picard said it made me think it was not standard
Picard said to Scotty "Who do you think gave it to Guinan?"
Aldebaran whiskey.
Regading the idea of a pool table, I think my new head canon is that Ten Forward was to be fitted with a Dom-Jot table, but this was cancelled by Picard, citing previous negative experiences with the game.
The most fascinating thing about Ten-Forward to me is how the official Enterprise-D blueprints show no public heads anywhere near it. I imagine the turbo lift near the exit gets peed in a lot.
You just comms up O'Brien, tell him to add the pee filter and beam out the contents of your bladder. Where he sends it is a source of great concern...
Lol lol
Surely people in the 23rd century would have more decency being "evolved" human beings, also synthAle, all the taste, none of the stupor
@ that’s how imagine purgatory. It tastes like the real thing but has absolutely no effect.
@@chrissmith7669 synthehol does canonically have an intoxicant effect, it’s just less intense than alcohol and can be easily shaken off. Honestly it sounds better than alcohol.
Lowering the main seating area makes some amount of sense, as it'd also let the patrons at the bar look over the heads of those seated at tables to see out the window.
IRL, the Ten Forward set was built to connect to the existing short hallway set outside of the senior officers' quarters, built during season 1, so they were locked into the floor height by the doors. They can go up from there by building a platform, but they can't go down without digging into the sound stage's floor.
1:43 I don’t think it was mentioned in terms of Starfleet as a whole, but I think the Enterprise-D was on a three shift rotation until Jellico wanted it changed to a four shift. Kira also mentioned her support for a four shift rotation in “Starship Down”, so DS9 was on a three at that point too.
I was about to post about this. I assume that shift rotations are down to the individual captain's and the ship. But at least, yes, we do know that the Enterprise was a three shift rota until after Best of Both Worlds.. Considering how by the book Jelico was; I expect that the default recommend from Starfleet was a four shift, but Picard had a three to probably better match the civilian passengers/families.
An interesting thing about three shift vs four shift on DS9 is that DS9 operates on a Bajoran day....which is 26 hours. A four shift is evenly divided in 6.5 hours vs 8.6 hours on a three shift rotation.
@3Rayfire 6.5 hrs. Figure 1hr lunch, two 15min breaks. Some overlap on shift changes, that exactly an 8hr workday.
Always interesting! Elaborating on your point about the saucer rim thickness, I've read that Andrew Probert, the original designer of the D, intended it to be one deck tall at the rim, with small lounges featuring both the upper and lower windows split by the phaser array strip. It'd be interesting to see what the originally envisioned lounges would look like, if you ever felt like rendering it.
Apparently part of the original conception of the Enterprise D is that there would be all sorts of lounge type spaces scattered throughout the ship, and you do catch glimpses of this here and there, especially in season 1. But obviously nothing as elaborate as 10 Forward. Incidentally, I think it's reasonable to assume that not all the shifts are equal. As seen in Data's Day, there is a "Night watch" where lights get dimmed, and one assumes that a lot of the science labs, etc would go unstaffed during this time.
Why have a bartender? Look to the pilot of TOS for the answer: 'There are some things a man will tell his bartender which he won't tell his doctor.'
And some a bartender will tell a man - "I think you've had enough mate"
Plus I am sure they didn't have counselors in the TOS era remember when Troi told Riker in ENT how the ship's galley chef was the closest they had to a counselor back then.
@@Tallacus Also Troi is a godawful counselor and Guinan was better at advising the crew in basically every way.
Anyone given the Chance to See a Bartender or a counselour would prefer the Bartender.
Maybe Starfleet should rework its counselour branch
@Tallacus Indeed. If you consider ST: Continues canon, they were first beginning to be introduced close to the end of the five year mission.
In many ways it is such a simple yet ingenious bit of lore that allows stories to be told in a different way.
10-forward is also used as the president's office in Star Trek 6. They even left on the door windows with the 24th century Starfleet symbol on them too
@@dougc190 I saw somewhere that in the movie you can see something on a door that is a TNG set
They used the TNG engineering too for ST6. Didn't even change the core or the LCARS panels.
It would make sense that there would several lounges that the crew could use. With most of the senior staff preferring this one in 9 aft where they play D&D all night.
Imagine they janitor cleaning the coffee replicator in 10 forward as they crashed in generations
Stage 9 has shown there are more bars and lounges for crew on Enterprise-D. I'm glad to have a copy of Stage 9 before it was stopped by Viacom CBS.
I meant to download it, and it was taken down the following day :(
Technically it also appeared in a dream sequence Picard had in Star Trek Picard.
I can't remember the source for this but there might be another bar near the main shuttle bay.
The same in Deep Space Nine there are replicators in rooms & the promenade has Replimat,
Quark's Bar and food places. You have the choice to have replicated food or real food in your quarters or other places as mentioned. Which can include not being alone or socialising Or if you're not near your quarters.
In the episode with Captain Jellico, LaForge mentions the stress of shifting from a 3-shift structure under Picard to the 4-shift rotation as ordered by Jellico.
Steps in pubs and bars often produce spills.
I never noticed that change to the saucer before!
I love your videos on the TOS tv and later movie studio shooting sets. I'm looking forward to video showing how the movie sets were changed and evolved for TNG, and later on, VOY. It looks like you are on your way. Fantastic Video!!
The audio is 5,000% better on this video compared to the last one.
Well done!
New subscriber. These are AMAZING!!
I've always thought that an "Enterprise Experience" meaning a recreation of the Enterprise D as an enclosed hotel with a recreated ten-forward as its main restaurant would make tons of money.
Everyone mentions this immediately, Chains of Command, jellimould switch to a four shift whatsit from an eight shift whatsit, so a shift in TNG is three hours.
Also, in my HC there's a non-com bar called the Warp Core Beach.
Btw Ten Forward came back in the first episode of Picard, and calling Ten Forward a bar is just an understatement. Its more of a Pub in the traditional sense, a Bar is just too much of a sleezy or upscale place. Whereas a Pub is more of a community hub for PUBLIC space. As its also a formal reception area for the ship.
If I recall, Voyager had a bunch of windows on the stern underneath the shuttle bay that could also have been a lounge
Stellar (LOL) animations of the D! ...One thing I've wondered....was there a 'Nine-Forward' above Ten-Forward? Seems like there would be a 'mirror' of 10-F in 9-F based on the windows above the center line of the dish. Or could that have been an officer's club? (Starfleet never seemed to divide officer and enlisted social situations the way real-world militaries do).
The blueprints do show a lounge on deck 9 at the front, a large centralised room with tables and chairs. What it might be called is anyone's guess. 9-Forward is as good a name as any.
Obviously people made a beeline for Ten Forward because of Guinan!
Nine Forward's bartender is just some redshirt, not a 600 year old El Aurian.
Was a surprisingly tiny space when you really look at it.
Yep! Loved the video!
According to the blueprints there are several other lounges on deck ten to either side of ten forward.
Awesome cool to see the ten foward of the Sutherland
Squeezing a similar room into the space above TenForward would be tricky due to the latter's high ceiling height.
A cramped observation suite might just be possible I suppose...
Another Fantastic entry! Any interest in doing a Blake7 video ? would love to seem some similar breakdowns of their ship
I thought 10 forward was the officers lounge but open to all, by invitation
It was never said to be that. But it is not a stretch to imagine that 10-Forward was the agreed upon place for the senior crew to hang out at. Much like in real life in some cities, certain bars are frequented by certain groups of people. Police, Firefighters, Jocks, Pilots, etc, etc.
Hee. Always an important set to have, some kind of bar. I think the 'use of a bartender' apart from obvious social functions, could well be that those replicators behind he bar are set so they produce real alcohol as well as synth and therefore it's good to have a real person supervising how much people are getting and on what occasions, since navies tend to have rules about such things.
It's also good to mention how a handful of TNG Episodes mimic old Episodes of "The Love Boat" whenever they needed to produce a one off Episode on a smaller budget with guest stars to save money overall during any given season. The poolside bar was always a central set piece for "The Love Boat".
What about the infamous Pan galactic gargle blaster?
I assume people would go to the bars on a starship for the same reason we go to pubs and bars rather than drinking at home.
The place reminds me of thw space needle
Although as others have commented, the bar does have real alcohol, I see two other reasons for having servers. First, for the atmosphere, and second, it also ensures an individual does not over serve themselves.
I am mystified by the side-walls of the window bays. How does the room end there? I know they sometimes used mirrors on set somehow but I never understood why or how.
Ten Dorsal might be a little tough lol
I too have always wondered why there would be bar staff when all you need to do is tell a replicator what you want.
Of course, the real world reason was that Whoopi Goldberg REALLY wanted a part in the show as she is a big Trek fan.
According to the blueprints, and the Stage9 Enterprise D walkaround before it got short sightedly C&Ded by CBS bullies the rim of the saucer section is pretty much populate by lounges and conference suites.
The windows on Starfleet ships and shuttles is Transparent Aluminium and yes they break, in Star Trek: Lower Decks a shuttle that was seen crashed into a Cave showed its windows broken, who knows maybe starship Windows are double glazed or strengthened further. Interestingly there is Transparent Aluminium in real life, it’s called aluminium but I don’t think it is the metal Aluminium, maybe some properties of it?
We also see windows shatter as the saucer is sliding its way through the Veridian III countryside in Generations.
Not sure if it's official but I gather that the Enterprise D had other bars/open lounges with replicators. I'd speculate that Ten-forward was meant for senior staff and their family and VIP guests, not every Tom, Dick and Harry.
4:12 What did you do to my bar????
It seems so small for a crew of 1000
I like your videos but the music is still a bit loud. It's not good music so would probably be best just not having music if balancing music versus speech is an issue.
In real world terms, this set was built to give Whoopi Goldberg a place for her character
0:40 well, technically wrong, it was last seen in Star Trek Picard.
I don't know how you record this, but your videos always are so hard to hear. Your voice is VERY muddled. I have to turn the volume up high, and it's still hard to understand you!
Would it also check ID?
💪🙂👍
Pretty sure it was in Picard Season 1…
By the looks of it, it seats about ...........50?
“Ten Dorsal” doesn’t make sense with a hull of that shape.
Would've we, the audience, really cared if the model of the Enterprise didn't have ten-forward windows? I for one cared a lot more about the fact that the, already disproportionately large, saucer was made even thicker. I hate that 4' model, especially when shown in that 3/4 profile, ventral saucer shot. Look at all those raised hull plates 🤮. The saucer looks like something out of star wars.
Well I certainly didn't hate it. I always enjoy your stuff. This is one of the weaker vids you have produced however. You can't be running out of ideas already? Right? 😊
Fire Guinan and get someone else.
Imagine they janitor cleaning the coffee replicator in 10 forward as they crashed in generations