@@FreddieHg37 it's also sad that the Dark knight would never exist if his parents survived...DC Comics, bruh. The only reason he can suppress fear is because of that moment. He's fueled by trauma.
I used to have a mindset that my life thus far was a form of sadness, you could say a tragedy! However due to recent events that have transpired since the incident at the train station I have had an epiphany or a realization if you will, that my life has become a form of laughter; a comedy!
Agreed. Surpringsly, despite being different to the comic book, it respect the spirit of the joker. Despite having an "origin" in this movie, we never really know which info to trust. We cant trust thomas wayne, penny fleck or even arthur himself. And somehow despite all that, this movie still feel satisfying enough to give us the idea of what a joker is
I didnt like the fact that the movie was designed for us to sympathize with Joker.. I wud have loved that if all these events happened but Arthur interpreted it differently.. Like the kids in the beginning didnt beat him up.. They were just running, fooling around and crashed into Arthur and his sign fell and got run over by a car or something and broke.. The guys in the train were laughing at something random and he thought they were laughing at him.. His mother used to work with Thomas Wayne and TW did compliment her and he found that photo.. Went to see Wayne Manor and met Bruce and cooked up a story that his mother and thomas had an affair and he was the love child and never got his due.. The game show host actually wanted to make him famous like so many wierd RUclips sensations like "hide yr wife, hide yr kids" guy.. But Arthur interpreted that he was being made fun of
On a side-note about the sign, the scene with his boss is brilliant: "What would those kids want with a sign?" Then Arthur explains he doesn't know and asks why would he want to steal a sign for himself? "Why does anyone do anything?" It was just such a moment of frustrating hypocrisy. Instantly. You can sympathize with him going crazy after that.
He also has a nasty bruise around his shoulder that isn't there for nothing. But considering the beat he took, I think there would be more than just one nasty bruise to show.
Wolfy damn same here. I would be having some quality time with family and then suddenly I would remember how scared he was and then I just feel broken and like crap for no reason. Then I would be like “what’s wrong with me” it’s not like it happened in real life.
I just realized that the movie having an important message about healthcare, mental illness, social classes etc... And somehow so many people accusing it of the opposite IS ITSELF a perfect joke. How's that for meta?
@@sephelutis yeah. I haven't seen that but I get what you mean. Most people who have such strong negative opinions on the movie refuse to see it, so they're basing themselves on nothing. Plus as some people have said I feel what people hate about this movie is that it forces people to be more socially responsible. People like easy blame all answers. They love building jails and just filling them and feeling like that solves everything. Plus these same people couldn't care less about the daily gun violence in poor neighborhoods. They only care about this because even though it is by comparison extremely rare it happens in areas were they live. It's hypocrisy.
Everytime Arthur was touching something, it was reassurance that what he was living was real. Similar to the totem in inception. When he gets the call to be on Murray he touches his stomach then his chest. When he enters Zazie Beetz’s apartment he starts feeling the drawings, backpack, and couch to assure it wasn’t one of his delusions.
It's true that some people suffering from schizophrenia use for example stuffed animals or other things to help them differentiate between reality and their delusions or hallucinations. They kind of stay grounded this way, it's like a tool to connect to reality and see through the hallucination, they know it's not real. But that's just a thing I have read, I am not an expert.
Probably won't happen. The academy hates comic book movies. Y'know the Ironic thing bout that though? If the movie was completely divorced from anything Batman related there would be no question as to whether it would get nominated or not. But it also wouldn't get as much attention (or money) if it were called "Pagliacci" or something instead of "Joker" since the majority of comics fans wouldn't be interested. Double edged sword there.
Small fact: according to the director, Joker’s last laugh was a real laugh. The other laughs were either fake (to be part of the people) or part of his affliction.
@@redhood2394 an interview with ET I think? Im not completely sure, but it was a pretty popular interview, if you search for Todd Phillips Joker interview Im sure you'll find it
Joker's last laugh didn't seem real. It seemed like part of his condition and the only time I felt like he was genuinely laughing was during his conversation with Murray.
In his real appearance on the Murray show, Joker says "this is exactly how I imagined it, " to which Murray replies, "well that makes one of us." It wasn't for comedic effect. The Joker's line had to be put in the movie to make it clear to the audience that this wasn't Arthur's imagination. This was real. Throughout the movie, every one of Arthur's imaginations are pure wish fulfillment whereas real life sucked. Without that line near the end, it would be too easy to interpret that scene as wish fulfillment. Murray and the audience laughing at him rather than with him is also evidence that it was real. The alley bit at the end was likely just Arthur thinking about Bruce after having learned about it and finding it funny (or sad).
elheber That part where he’s thinking about Bruce is the only part that makes me question what’s real and what’s not real. I say that because he didn’t actually see Bruce’s parents get murdered, so how could he have a memory of an event that he didn’t witness? On the other hand, you could argue that he was simply thinking about Bruce’s parents getting killed, and the clip shown was just a visual representation of that, rather than an actual memory.
Dom Philbrick I can honestly see it as they told him what happened and he just saw how it went down in his own head and found it funny that the kid who had everything he didn’t got fucked over as much as he did.
But what if his imagination also made people look bad? Feeling persecuted is common for people with certain mental illnesses. Like, Arthur's imagination did make him look good (funny, charismatic, ladies man etc) but what if it also made people and/or the situation look bad (or worse than they really were) so he could have enough reason to remove that threat?
he wrote “the funny thing about mental illness” with his dominant right hand and switched to his left and to write “people expect you to behave as if you don’t” which he thought was funny
After he leaves the scene of the train shooting when he’s chasing down the last guy, he holds the gun with his left hand. That’s the only time I paid attention to his hand dominance, but I don’t know why else he’d use his left hand.
Jack Nicholson: “Do I look like I’m joking?” Heath Ledger: “Do I look like a guy with a plan?” Joaquin Phoenix: “Do I look like the kind of clown that could start a movement?” Jared Leto: “HONKA HONKA!” Edit: Wow, guys! Thanks for the likes!
I think I was the only one in the theatre that found that funny. **awkward only one laughing Arthur moment** But seriously, if I heard him say that I'd be wishing him a good day and getting the hell out of there.
@@Syklonus no I definitely do not. But I definitely thought this movie was a masterpiece, movie of the decade, there's before Joker and after Joker Etc. I could go on and on.
I'll be honest, while I love complex stories like this and think that everyone is allowed to interpret it however they want, I think the whole "it was a dream", trope just really undermines the message if the movie. The story is so powerful because of how plausible it all is. There are people today with mental issues that are neglected, as well as children who are abused by their caretaker. Thinking it is all fake or that there is a conspiracy plot just sucks out all the tension for me.
Paola Elizabeth Morales I mean, there’s nothing in the movie that necessarily confirms it did that trope. It certainly shows that Arthur is an unreliable narrator, but it never outright stated that none of the experiences were real
Some of it did happen, some didn’t, but Arthur is telling this story and possibly TRYING to make the shrink lady/us feel sympathetic by exaggerating some parts.
I think the “it was a dream” trope was actually Arthur’s coping mechanism! It was perfect for his character who suffers from mental illness and later finds that a major part of his world was a lie! His “mother” being the root cause of his condition, his poor well being! His reality was crashing down on him! That’s also why he was smoking more as the movie progressed.
@@UR_Right24 I respectfully disagree. I think that one of this movies strong points is that it makes you think, even though we don't have all the answers. I think it would actually be more disappointing if they did give us a straight answer. I like that it keeps us guessing and invested
@@UR_Right24 mmm... someone had said that this is Arthurs perspective of events.. however since he hallucinates and cant tell whats fantasy n reality that leaves us to see that everything in the movie isn't real but some of the things are.. some of the violence might even be exaggerated since all of this is his point of view
Layzie _65 at times he is crying, in the very intro of the movie it shows his makeup running, also when he gets his moms medical file he has a complete breakdown where due to his condition he isn’t even able to vocally cry but you can his nose running and the pain in his eyes
@@layzie_6546 Every time he cried he had a laughing fit too. Believably laughing and crying at the same time- how did Phoenix do it? Pure genius! What's sad is while being beaten, starved and chained to a radiator his crying was laughing. It's makes her "he was always a happy child" comment even sadder.
I interpreted the movie exactly how it’s shown. That’s it. His mother was insane. He’s not Thomas Wayne’s son. He went on the show. He killed Murray. He survived the crash and is Luke Skywalker’s son. It’s pretty straight forward.
Arthur: My mother always tells me to smile and put on a happy face. I like to imagine that penny only said this to Arthur to not make it look like Arthur was abused. Similar to when you accidentally made your younger sibling cried, but tried your best to cheer them up before mom comes home and sees her kid crying. In this scenario penny doesn't want the public to know that Arthur was sad and abuse, so she told Arthur to simply smile.
To add to this; “She told me I had a purpose. To bring laughter and joy to the world” Maybe, in her delusional mind, adopting Arthur in hopes of having a “family” with Thomas Wayne, would bring laughter and joy to HER world.
@Tamer Ciftci The MCU is a different kettle of fish to this film. It was/is an ongoing cinematic universe. Joker is a one shot film, made with no intention to build a franchise off of it. I completely disagree that the MCU films are inherently childish, yes they're definitely aimed at children as part of their audience demographic, but to say that it's "childish" is quite frankly baseless. Let's just focus on the subject of this video which is Joker. Not the MCU, not it's demographic, nor a need to be "woke" about films. Simply, Joker.
"I thought of a joke.... you wouldn't get it" Then he kills the therapist (running down the corridor with blood on his feet). That's the joke she wouldn't get. It's funny to him, it isn't funny for her.
Considering, Arthur is nice to those people who are nice to him like Sophia and that midget so he left them alive but when it comes to the therapist, she also didn't do him any harm, I think so can anyone tell me why exactly he killed the therapist?
This is open to interpretation dude, remember the picture Thomas wayne sends the joker's mom saying "I love your smile"?... What if Thomas Wayne forged all of the adoption papers??
*Joker:* "Come on, Murray... Do I look like the kind of clown that could start a movement? I killed those guys because they were awful. Everybody is awful these days... it's enough to make anyone crazy."
@@kp1x with all due respect, Thanos also has a dark origin story compable to this joker. Thanos i think is only villian that can actual philosophicaly debate with joker.
@@aleksikulmala6397 You: woosh Me: *Looks up woosh in urban dictionary* Urban dictionary: woosh (definition): A joke that goes over someone's head. Me: *dead*
When Thomas Wayne is speaking on TV he mentions that all Wayne employees are “family” and Penny picks up on it. So I can imagine somebody that suffers from delusions like Penny taking that seriously and fuelling her delusional belief that her adopted child is the son of Thomas as they’re his ‘family’
Small moment in the movie, but I love the part where his boss is yelling at him, and he's slowly making a huge grin and then it cuts to him kicking a pile of garbage.
It has a 70 percent on Rotten Tomatoes and for a movie thats been bashed by critics, thats actually a really great score. 70 percent critic score with a 91 audience score
A perfect example of Arthur’s inconsistency is when he shoots the yuppies in the train. The gun holds 6 bullets, but he shot the gun 7 times. He also put pills in his mother oatmeal, but told the EMS worker (in the ambulance) that his mother doesn’t take medication, and didn’t remember that last time he spoke to her.
More like he shot them 8 times 1 bullet for the 1st guy 2 bullets for the 2nd and he shoots the third guy on the foot then on the back then shoots him 3 more times when he is crawling in the stairs
Yooo I thought I was the only one!! He totally fired the gun 8 fucking times I was wtf? I think it was his mind getting carried away with the power and control
I was also counting during that scene and he REALLY SHOT 8 TIMES! I actually talked inside the cinema asking "Wait what? That was eight (shots)!" There are two scenarios which may explain it 1) He reloaded (off screen) while inside the train 2) Part of his imagination the additional 2 bullets from that jolt of anger. This movie does really put the audience into thinking state
Most heartbreaking thing was when he was laughing uncontrollably and people said why you laughing and he tried explaining he has a condition but he can't find his explainer card and then gets beat up for being weird. But then we all cheer when he gets a triple kill and fills the last guy with bullets.
It was heartbreaking until he filled them with lead, then it became very satisfying. Also he did not get beat up for being weird, he got beat up because the guys were pieces of shit that thought they are better than others.
I love when the camera zooms out from the show and its shows all the monitors and on one of them you see him get tackled by cops while talking into the camera
Which makes me think the car accident part was all a delusion. He believed people would worship and save him but still nobody knew who he was behind the clown make up. The punchline was that he was a symbol, just like the bat
I’m not sure his encounter with Murray on his show the first time was real either. The way Murray facial expression was when Arthur later told him he felt like he known him for years or something seemed off.
I thought the scene of him dancing down the stairs represented his descent into madness and his embrace of it in contrast to slowly walking up earlier in the movie. I’m gonna have to watch this one again and I never do that.
@@stankboxers imagination can still involve real events he would have just projected himself into the fantasy (if the dream theory was real which I doubt honestly)
It really did. The more you think on the movie, the more you legit wonder "was that even real?" Like, the Zazie Beats character was, to me, obviously a delusion, but I think it was less a "6th Sense" reveal and more a "if this wasn't real, are you confident any of it was?" Ex. Where did the woman that was harassed on the train go?
Are you sure? When we see him in Franklin show for the first time we are back into his apartment, when he is meeting with Sophie Dumond they are show what really happened same with his young mother. So I personally don't see any "mastering of multiple choice idea".
I thought of the whole “father” thing as Arthur feels like a nobody. He doesn’t feel special and feels like no one pays him and anyone walks over him. Then he find out Thomas Wayne is his father. The biggest, most important/famous man in the city is his dad. He finally has a purpose. He is important. He goes to Wayne then gets put down and told his mum is crazy and when he find out it’s true then that’s the last straw. He has nothing He is lost. It’s the final piece in the puzzle into making him the joker
What sucks is that it doesn’t really matter if Penny really is crazy or Thomas Wayne is really his dad because he’d still be left to die on the streets. He knew this, which is why he crumpled up that picture of Penny.
Here is my theory: The whole movie is Joker remembering his past while he is at Arkham. The scene at Arkham takes place several years after the scene where he stands on top of the police car. Batman exists at that point and Joker knows his identity, hence why he is laughing at the irony that he is responsible for Batman's existence. Edit: Thanks for the likes guys!
Interesting that's pretty much what I thought about it too. Because the guy doesn't look like he is 30years old only. Must be that he is remembering his past with his present body.
@@Jebu911 That's actually a very interesting theory. Remembering the past with his present body. As great as Joaquin is, I don't like the idea that he will pretty much be a senior citizen by the time Batman becomes a thing. This is a cool way of looking at it!
Prior to him accepting the Joker persona, whenever he's imagining things he's always extremely confident and doesn't have the inappropriate laugh. But as I recall the bathroom scene with Thomas he doesn't execute the perfect responses and does have the unfortunate laugh. So it's plausible to me that it went down the way we saw it.
I remember that but I actually just got back home from watching it for a second time and I noticed that there was nothing wrong with his face like after that encounter with Thomas he was bleeding from his nose but then there’s no bruise.
I think you're right.. The best way to differentiate between his fantasies and realities is by watching the behaviour of the people around him.. Even his relationship with his neighbor shows to be fake. The fact that she isn't creeped out by him following her and why would she leave her daughter alone to go on a date
I think it's true that Thomas Wayne is the one who wrote "I'll always love your smile" on the back of the picture with his initials. Maybe it was just his way of thanking her upon leaving work. Or as part of a get-better-soon card. It would add another reason Arthur was always told by his mother to always smile. She did it because that's the one thing Thomas Wayne took noticed of at work. She's clearly obsessive when it comes to TW.
The only thing that Arthur imagined was the relationship with that girl and his first appearance in the talk show. The movie deliberately shows us that he imagined it. It didn't show us anything else. So, we have to assume that everything else happened. If they weren't so deliberate on those occasions, then we could've talked about these other theories.
Maybe, but what was the point of showing us he imagined that relationship? The relationship didn't really add anything to the story other than to show us he is believing things that aren't real. So why did the movie go so far out of its way to show us this?
@@sarahpfeuffer1396 I believe, the director didn't trust the audience to understand that Arthur was imagining his relationship with the girl. So, he deliberately showed those flashbacks.
He also imagined being on stage with Murray in the beginning so I would think that some things arent the way they seem plus its in arthurs/ jokers point of view and we can't trust what he says or sees. I think its up to the audience to try and figure out what was real and what wasnt
I'm going to believe that "height of anarchy" scene at the end was real because this is the Joker we're talking about. He has a well established history of setting the town on fire.
If we'd seen Joker actively organise and lead the movement, I'd have thought that it was a delusion of grandeur, but because he only sparks the movement accidentally and has nothing to do with it until the very end, I'm inclined to believe that it's real.
@Michael Anderson exactly! I think that the death of Bruce's parents scene is in the movie because we know that that is real. We're already familiar with that scene.
@ThejollyFrenchman The guy killing the Wayne parents had a joker mask though; which he doesn't have in other accounts. That was clearly the joker thinking back and inserting himself into the story (I just thought of a joke) - so we don't know how reliable the connection is: it could be that there was a connection but that the guy didn't have a mask IRL, or it could be all wishfull thinking on Jokers part
I'm not buying this whole theory that everything we saw was in Arthur's mind. For one thing every time we saw him hallucinate, he would envision something BETTER than his actual life. When he was bombing on stage in reality, he would envision himself getting laughter and applause. When he was sitting in his apartment watching Murray on TV, he would envision himself in the audience being singled out and praised by Murray. And when he would barely be given the time of day by an attractive woman, he would envision himself having a full relationship with her. So if this whole movie was just in his head, why the hell would he envision himself getting jumped, getting fired, getting his meds shut off, getting lied to by his mom, and getting humiliated on live TV by someone that he respected more than anyone?
because as you said, he envision something BETTER; "You wouldn't get the joke don't you?" when he was sitting on Arkam Hospital, he envision his life contribute for creating Batman, someone who will complete him and be his counterpart. While Arthur's actual life might not contribute to that at all. It's just on his mind. That's why he obsessed with Batman, because that's how he imagine his life.
@@wqi09 But he would not have been imagining a better life if everything was in his mind. He would have been imagining himself IMAGINING HIMSELF having a better (and much worse) life, and that makes no sense. However, you did make a good point. I do believe most of the last part of the movie was another dulusion, mainly the part where he is freed and stands on top of the police car being cheered. Perhaps even the death of Bruce Wayne's parents were part of it as well 🤔
@@KoolKeithProductions I'm not convinced the part where he stands on the police car was a delusion. I think it's contrast to his complaint that he it were him on the street, they'd walk right over him. Now that he's Joker, and is learning to embrace the waves of chaos, he finds himself surrounded by chaotic people who would also happen to not step over him when they saw him dead or dying.
Makes sense, but that's all in theory, right? It's not like they check background when you want to buy a gun in America. Also, it was the 80's, and business was bad for everyone. Wouldn't surprise me if they sold guns so they wouldn't go bankrupt.
in the phone call, its stated the guy who gave him the gun said arthur was trying to buy one off of him for a while, so maybe his coworker didn't actually give it to him for free and just had it bought off him, it would be in arthurs wish fulfillment mind that people would treat him with that amount of respect and kindness, even the coworker saying "you're my boy" sounds vaguely familiar to when he imagined himself on the Murray franklin show
On These Theories: - Just because he may be back in Arkham imagining those events does not mean the whole movie was fake. It could mean he thought of it and was about to go do it. Just a flashback to the moment where he started planning a bit. Even if he did indeed kill the therapist, maybe the other scenes after that event he was just imagining her there? Therapists are guides in a sense to some - reasonable person for him to cling to in that way. - He was clearly abused by a crazy mother. That was verified by paperwork. She suggestively admitted to it when he mentioned it. She never said that was forged - only said the adopted part was. So I don’t think that particular one was a mystery. In fact I think it was intentionally verified in a few different scenes because it explains exactly why he is so fucked up. - The “he died and is in purgatory” theory is completely absurd, defeats the purpose of the movie and should hold no credence lol.
WorthySire I mean if we say he died after being hit by the ambulance then the spirt of the Joker lives on and maybe inspires another person out there to follow in his footsteps, he truly becomes a symbol
that purgatory theory is kinda interesting because when they pulled him out and put him on the car Arthur was in a cross pose and woke up to a crowd worshiping him. In his mind he died and resurrected as the Joker. Then again this could also work if he didn't die
Adaptable {Mr. NerdyGamer} filmmakers use themes all the time. Him in a cross pose was clearly to indicate that in his mind and the city’s mind he was their savior. Not that he died. If he was supposed to have died then it would have been more clear. Not to mention there is absolutely no basis or suggestion in the movie for any spiritual element that would lead to a mental asylum “purgatory” scene. The idea just has no foundation. If you want it to be that, then sure think its that. But lets not pretend like the film at all communicated it. Honestly probably an idea a theorist just put out there to stretch their youtube length out to 10 mins.
Space Penguins okay. No one said that wouldn’t happen if the Joker died. The point is there is not any basis for saying the movie communicated that. Like even if we were to stretch it and say he didnt really stand up in a crowd of people - there is stilll no suggestion that he died in the movie. If he wasnt really there then he as in an asylum. Either way saying he died is just....really forced.
I made this comment on the "Film Theory" channel: "Joker" can be seen as a kind of mirror to "Batman Begins" -in "Batman Begins" we see the world of Thomas Wayne from the perspective of Bruce Wayne but in "Joker" we see the world of Thomas Wayne from the perspective of The Joker. In the view of Bruce, Thomas Wayne is a good man and the savior of the city -in the view of The Joker, Thomas Wayne is an a-hole and a part of the problem."
I had a broken theory about it being a PTSD memory of his interactions with Fleck and his parents murder, and cobbled together information from the news and rv. It would show that Batman has been obsessed with the Joker all his life. But it doesnt play out as a viable theory.
I think that Arthur is 30. Remember, he had a traumatic childhood, he smokes a lot and takes lots and lots of medicine. That can make your face age significantly faster. Also some people just age worse than others.
I think for Arthur to have imagined that he was imagining Sophie to be with him that whole time, only for him to imagine the fact that it was all in his head the whole time, makes that whole “the movie didn’t actually happen” theory kinda fall flat.
Quinton Vonesh ya the doesn’t the therapist as “why did you do it?” Or something to that extent. Meaning he did something to be there, I think he did do all of it. Just the escape part at the end was all just a delusion
The more time he is without his meds his reality becomes less and less. The first murray show scene you see its made up relatively quick. Then the neighbors fantasy takes way longer . so who knows if he is just in a state of permanent fantasy.
That's because the scene was nearly identical. Shot from the same angle, same time of day and a Joker delighted in the aftermath of a chaotic event. The only thing missing was him sticking his head out of the window.
I like that! "The movie, Joker, itself is multiple choice." Amidst all the different interpretations I think the important thing to hold onto is the connection between audience and protagonist. Our confusion is Arthur's confusion. We are stuck in logic hell because he is too. He isn't trying to confuse us or himself, the truth is just doing its best to hide itself from his mind. But the protagonist's accomplishment in this story is that he learns to live without the desire to know the truth about himself.
I've only seen the film once, but this was my (possible) interpretation: everything at the beginning of the film happens exactly as we see it... until Arthur runs out of his medication. Everything after that could have been hallucinations, Arthur going crazy because he has no medication keeping him relatively sane. Or the whole movie actually did happen the way we see it happen. 🤷♂️
Yeah, but the scene where he made out with his neighbor was before his last meeting with his psychiatrist. So he started imagining things before he ran out of his medicines.
what i've realised that this movie is not about the origin story of joker batman arch nemisis like all the other movies still the origin of the JOker is unknown i belive the whole movie is in his head till the last scene of psychiatrist talking to him i think she was asking him questions about him his life story and in his head he made this whole story till the last scene at asylum then he kills her....audiences still doesnt know what his origin is .... THATS Y JOKES TELLS AUDIENCE U WOULDN'T GET IT :)
I love how the movie stayed true to the Joker. The movie might’ve happened. Might’ve not. It’s genius. The banging on the wall keeps me thinking about this
Mmhm, yep! I noticed that too. Why keep it a secret? Thomas Wayne were running for Mayor & wanna cover up any mishaps, so that no one would dig it up.. 🤔🤔
I hope Wayne is Arthur's dad because until this movie came out, nobody ever wrote that Joker and Batman could be half brothers. It's an original take on a rivalry that has been written in so many different ways over the years. Props to Todd Philips and Scott Silver for coming up with something that hasn't been done before.
I agree. I also think Wayne in the bathroom acted funny when he mentioned it. I only seen his records once but didn't it say that Arthur's parents are unknown? That seems like the perfect story for a cover up.
TheJRMproductions it was just alright for me. Didn’t love it but I didn’t hate it either. It just... exist... to me. Idk maybe I need to see it again but I don’t understand the hype it’s getting. Honestly, this is probably the best example of a decent film: not great but not shit lol
it actually reminded me of the plot in the telltale batman games where thomas wayne is indeed apart of all the mob mess and has a heavy hand in arkham. he would send people there if he (or falcone) wanted something from them, using drugs to make them crazy. kinda like eleven’s mom’s plot as well.
Joker: “I prefer my past to be multiple choice” And that’s exactly what Todd Phillips did! He wanted the audience to have their own interpretations on how the joker came to be and what the audience wants to believe what’s true and what’s not true. The movie itself can be multiple choice for you.
That's so fucking meta, right? This movie is about 3 dimensions more meta than Deadpool was. And Deadpool was meta as fuck. If the story was created by the Joker, just to fuck with the audience, that would be some next level fourth wall breaking.
I understand some events were real and some were imaginary. Scenes like the girlfriend were imaginary, or being on the show in the beginning. I think there is a split between real and imaginary because of the medications he was on. He seems to go in and out of imaginary and real while on medication. My theory is: after he stopped taking his medication, everything was real... from finding his father/killing his mother/ killing ex coworker/killing the show host/ crowd cheering him as an inspiration and etc. up until he’s back in asylum with the social worker at the end. At this point, we aren’t sure what part is real or not since he’s back in hospital and on meds again. The reason i think this is, this keeps the core joker’s story in tact. How he becomes a joker makes sense. If we assume everything was imaginary, how does he ever become a leader as a joker? When he says that he was more clear than ever before after not taking his medications. I believe it. This is his true self. The medications only suppressed it and made him internalize it with hallucinations and etc. Idk I could be way off lol
When he talked to the guy he was trying to get the file from he asks “what do you have to do to get in here” but if he was once committed in the past he know, so why does he even ask?
I heard the line as if he were asking how his mother could possibly have been admitted to a place so severe as that. It adds to none of the stories lining up and him being completely unable to trust anyone's account of anything.
@@Chase.Letizia It was real, there is no question about that. The question is, how reliable is it? Is it being remembered by an unreliable point of view or were those the events as they actually happened?
@@Chase.Letizia It's only upfront with Sophie's character. That was the movie letting you know you can't trust everything you're seeing and was probably leaving the rest to the viewer to figure it out. There are some American Psycho type scenes that seem too crazy to be real, but with Joker, they're even more likely to be in his head.
My other issue with the picture signed “TW” , the “T”s could’ve been different because if she really is delusional about her relationship with Wayne, she could’ve made the note at the back of the picture different than how she would write it adding to the level of her delusions and illness. I feel like the joke at the end of the movie was something fairly meta like “I’ve created my greatest enemy”. This movie plays with your mind so much.. I feel like at 80% of it happened how we saw and the rest was how his mind saw the world.
I like the "I've created my greatest enemy" because it could be said that Gotham through there actions "Created there greatest enemy" and through his actions he did also!
Yeah, but you forgot that the entire movie is narrated through his point of view! There isn't a single scene where you get the point of view of someone that is not Arthur! You experience what he believes he has experiencing. So, knowing that he just "sees" things happen, how can you trust what you're seeing in the movie? And the scenes when it is made clear that Arthur imagines things that never happened, might be the way that the director used to warn the viewers to not trust what they are seeing. Things might have gone as shown in the movie, or might have not or something happened as we've seen them and some other things not. You cannot be sure. You cannot say that the 80% happened as it's shown.
The thing of the picture was the hint that Arthur was indeed Thomas Wayne 's son . That the evidence at Arkham's was falsified . Basically what happens was that after Thomas learning he would have a son . He planned to make Penny looks as a crazed woman . The adoption plot was all false . The last joke was : Arthur was fucked up because he was raised without a father . Now let's see how fucked Bruce Wayne will be because he also lost his father . ( Because both are really half brothers . )
He is mocking him and making fun of him the same way Murray made fun of arthur by playing his video and making jokes about him tables turned and joker got the upper hand
My first reading is that the whole time he was sitting in the mental hospital from the end not remember the movie, but imagining it as if it's what he wants his life to be. Then he proceeds to kill the psychiatrist and escape. Either way, I'm certain the last scene is real and the Joker was born, completing the Origin. And that's my favourite part
That scene where Thomas Wayne punched Arthur, there was a scene that was cut from the movie where Arthur was thrown out of the theater and he was rolling down the stairs. Watch the trailer for this movie And you'll see it.🤙
@@rhodriwilliams2599 I mean you can say that about anything with that theory. Im pretty sure it's a straight forward movie. I mean why would he imagine that he dated a woman who didn't even exsit. Y'all think the crazy man imagined himself to be crazy? Crazy people don't think they're crazy when they're having episodes. that's what makes them crazy. The former is a paradox 😂
@Alviona Hermayanti Hence the except part. The only things I thought didn't happen were the relationship and the fantasy about his first appearance on the Murray show.
NOPE. This movie is NOT even about "the Joker". They just played all the comic book, high school minded folks in order to get their money. Go look up BERNARD GOETZ, If you wanna know the super sub plot...there's your lead.
baba duke man gtfo, I’m not even a comic book movie guy or in high school and I was able to enjoy the shit out of this movie, stop being a whiny bitch to try be different and shit on a great movie, btw, that guy shot some people in self defence in a subway, so what. It’s not that amazing, you’re acting like he was mentally ill, abused as a kid and turned into a homicidal maniac LIKE ARTHUR. That’s like saying The Godfather isn’t even original cos some cop got shot in a restaurant by an Italian guy some time ago. You’ve gotta get your inspirations somewhere, nothing is truly original when you look at things the way you are. They made a story about how someone like the joker maybe came to be, they didn’t promise to be religiously faithful to the comics, it’s got a young Batman and his parents and it’s got a guy who becomes a maniacale Clown so yeah it’s about the Joker man
The only parts I think are not are: - The first time him going to the Murray show (it was confirmed imagination) - His first stand up where everyone in the crowd was laughing - His time with Zazie Beetz - and yes, Thomas is not his dad And that’s about it
Arthur (Joker) conversation with Thomas Wayne in the bathroom happen because in the trailer they showed security throwing Arthur down the stairs in front of the protest riot. That scene didn't make the movie
He says the therapist wouldn’t get it because at the Murray show, he got shut down for the knock knock “your child is dead” joke. He knows the therapist won’t understand why he finds Bruce being dead funny.
Is more of : I become broken because I didn't have a father . Let's see how broken Bruce Wayne will be because he lost also his father . ( Because they are really half brothers . )
@@andrewjennings7306 there is a distict leap in time. we dont know how long it was until he was caught. it might have been that night, it might have been weeks.
@@a.d8509 tbh I don't understand why in batman vol 3 he never actually cut their faces off. It would be more brutal. Then again, it was to show that it never happened so If batman released them of their pain (killing them) , it wasnt real
I think that line from him is literally arthur coming to terms with the fact that he is the only one who understands his jokes. The whole movie he knew he was misunderstood EXCEPT for comedy..he thought he was funny but at the end he realized that no only he gets it. Just further acceptance to who he has become
The director clearly revealed the girlfriend scenes to be imaginary, if any other scene was supposed to be from his imagination it would've been obvious,/revealed
Or the director did that reveal deliberately to show us that Arthur imagines alot. Hence it will bring forth the conversations of what's real, whats partially real and what never happened
Phillips came out and said he doesn’t view the film as celebrating the Joker ever. When the Joker stands on top of the cop car he literary gets celebrated, so I took that to be him imagining a crowd cheering him on.
@@ArhamQazi easily my favourite scene. So unsettling. Had no idea if the midget was actually gonna Die or not. Thats what I like about the joker. Hes unpredictable
The Killing Joke: “All it takes is one bad day.”
Joker (2019): “I had a bad day”
Nostalgia 101 The whole point of the Killing Joke was that his philosophy didn’t work
Ivanperez 128 for sure. Just something I thought was an interesting Easter Egg
@@magicman3163 unless batman did kill joker in the end.
Bro he had a bad LIFE lol
Joker 2019 had more than one bad day. All he has is bad days.
"I forgot to punch out"
**literally punches the clock off the wall**
"I forgot to punch out" which refers to him clocking out. Close m8
That ain’t no clock
Yeah, this Arthur guy comes off a bit crazy!
@@DravicPL I KNOOOW RIGHT? He is showcasing some violent behavior in the form of an easily understood pun!
That was a moment of psuedo-levity that I love.
Just imagine Aurthur tied to the radiator and laughing because of his condition meanwhile his mom thought he was happy! It is so sad!
siddhant raizada , people sometimes laugh when someone causes their pain as a defense mechanism. Maybe that’s the origin of his mental condition.
I literally cried at that part of the movie, I cried a lot…
What I got from the film is the reason for his condition is because of the head injury he suffered from his abuser
I'm gonna go cry for a few hours now
@@FreddieHg37 it's also sad that the Dark knight would never exist if his parents survived...DC Comics, bruh. The only reason he can suppress fear is because of that moment. He's fueled by trauma.
"i used to think my life was a cringe compilation. now i know it's a try not to laugh challenge."
So philosophical
General
Damn bro my life is like “Try not to Cringe compilation”
My life is a “try not to get satisfied challenge”
Bro, you just posted cringe.
"In a world of oversaturated 'funny' comic book movies, the only serious one is about a clown."
Logan
Where the hell were you when Logan came out
Civil War got pretty heavy in the end.
@@katsasgeorge he is just trying to show the irony of a clown movie bein serious.
@@creativecookbook
Is that the reason he pointed at this as the ONLY serious one ?
"It was all a dream" and "It was all the protagonist's imagination" theories are so boring
Logan I agree
Ya, I'm over that shit. It's such a poor attempt at being interesting.
It renders a lot of the reveal and development rather pointless. I tend to think a mix of both is the way to go.
My problems with them are that they can't be proven or disproven as well as that whether or not they're true, nothing is added to the story.
I actually think it’s more along the lines of parts of it being real and being in his head.
"I used to think my life was a tragedy, now I realize it's a supervillain origin story."
ITS A FUCKING COMEDY
I used to have a mindset that my life thus far was a form of sadness, you could say a tragedy!
However due to recent events that have transpired since the incident at the train station I have had an epiphany or a realization if you will, that my life has become a form of laughter; a comedy!
@@excitedcat9517 what a longer version from what Joker said. X,D
Sifat Shams nah that’s split
Or is it
“I prefer my past to be multiple choice”
This movie is the definition of that
Agreed. Surpringsly, despite being different to the comic book, it respect the spirit of the joker. Despite having an "origin" in this movie, we never really know which info to trust. We cant trust thomas wayne, penny fleck or even arthur himself. And somehow despite all that, this movie still feel satisfying enough to give us the idea of what a joker is
I didnt like the fact that the movie was designed for us to sympathize with Joker.. I wud have loved that if all these events happened but Arthur interpreted it differently.. Like the kids in the beginning didnt beat him up.. They were just running, fooling around and crashed into Arthur and his sign fell and got run over by a car or something and broke.. The guys in the train were laughing at something random and he thought they were laughing at him.. His mother used to work with Thomas Wayne and TW did compliment her and he found that photo.. Went to see Wayne Manor and met Bruce and cooked up a story that his mother and thomas had an affair and he was the love child and never got his due.. The game show host actually wanted to make him famous like so many wierd RUclips sensations like "hide yr wife, hide yr kids" guy.. But Arthur interpreted that he was being made fun of
*epitome
@Studio Autio "10/10, it really makes you FEEL like you're Batman."
"Multipass" -leeloo
On a side-note about the sign, the scene with his boss is brilliant:
"What would those kids want with a sign?"
Then Arthur explains he doesn't know and asks why would he want to steal a sign for himself?
"Why does anyone do anything?"
It was just such a moment of frustrating hypocrisy. Instantly. You can sympathize with him going crazy after that.
TheAwesomeDarkNinja didn’t the kids rob him too? I don’t remember.
@@jayzeus1843 I think he lost it. When the kids ran away and he was lying on the street we can see the signs shattered around him.
.
“Why would I steal the sign” the delivery on that line is brilliant, you can feel it instantly
He also has a nasty bruise around his shoulder that isn't there for nothing. But considering the beat he took, I think there would be more than just one nasty bruise to show.
‘Hey Arthur, can you get the door for me’... most tense scene
Ben Featherstone Man I felt so bad for that little guy, he was terrified
Wolfy damn same here. I would be having some quality time with family and then suddenly I would remember how scared he was and then I just feel broken and like crap for no reason. Then I would be like “what’s wrong with me” it’s not like it happened in real life.
cobra888 yeah I found it funny too, it’s only natural, but I couldn’t vocalise the laughter I was just so worried for him lol
@@wolfy9549 The 'mental illness' is average people feign empathy for fictional characters more than actual people in the world.
@@babaduke3298 Like you right now, assuming bad about the other people, for.... what reason? Polish your own ego?
I just realized that the movie having an important message about healthcare, mental illness, social classes etc... And somehow so many people accusing it of the opposite IS ITSELF a perfect joke. How's that for meta?
@@sephelutis yeah. I haven't seen that but I get what you mean. Most people who have such strong negative opinions on the movie refuse to see it, so they're basing themselves on nothing. Plus as some people have said I feel what people hate about this movie is that it forces people to be more socially responsible. People like easy blame all answers. They love building jails and just filling them and feeling like that solves everything.
Plus these same people couldn't care less about the daily gun violence in poor neighborhoods. They only care about this because even though it is by comparison extremely rare it happens in areas were they live. It's hypocrisy.
Nah.
Everytime Arthur was touching something, it was reassurance that what he was living was real. Similar to the totem in inception. When he gets the call to be on Murray he touches his stomach then his chest. When he enters Zazie Beetz’s apartment he starts feeling the drawings, backpack, and couch to assure it wasn’t one of his delusions.
wow thats such an interesting idea/fact :o
thanks for writing it :)
He touches the girl numerous times (even kissing her) so that theory doesn’t work
@@croesuslydias6488 good rebuttal thanks for writing too haha
It's true that some people suffering from schizophrenia use for example stuffed animals or other things to help them differentiate between reality and their delusions or hallucinations. They kind of stay grounded this way, it's like a tool to connect to reality and see through the hallucination, they know it's not real. But that's just a thing I have read, I am not an expert.
.
This movie is totally going to be in Jeremy's top ten.
Ya think?
I say it’s going to be his number one favorite of the year.
@@JoeTufanoTheMovieGuy This or Endgame
@@Betta66 Endgame is complete shit compared to Joker.
@@Betta66 Better than endgame as a standalone film
“Let’s put an Oscar on that face”
Please... make this happen, Oscars!
Agree 100% on that.👍😎😎😎
And... Why so Oscar?
@@blnkfce It's actually solid bronze with gold plating.
Probably won't happen. The academy hates comic book movies.
Y'know the Ironic thing bout that though? If the movie was completely divorced from anything Batman related there would be no question as to whether it would get nominated or not. But it also wouldn't get as much attention (or money) if it were called "Pagliacci" or something instead of "Joker" since the majority of comics fans wouldn't be interested. Double edged sword there.
Small fact: according to the director, Joker’s last laugh was a real laugh. The other laughs were either fake (to be part of the people) or part of his affliction.
I noticed in the scene where he’s taking notes for his stand-up act that his laugh seemed fake, as if he was trying to fit in with the audience.
Hope I don’t sound rude but what’s the source ?
@@redhood2394 an interview with ET I think? Im not completely sure, but it was a pretty popular interview, if you search for Todd Phillips Joker interview Im sure you'll find it
Joker's last laugh didn't seem real. It seemed like part of his condition and the only time I felt like he was genuinely laughing was during his conversation with Murray.
@@tomnorton4277 well, you're free to think what you want, but that's what the director said
"The worst part of having a mental illness is people expect you to *BEHAVE* as if you don't." - Arthur Fleck
Hunter mental illness is no joke ahah
@@nustyiv616 i wasnt making fun of it. i actually related to alot of what Arthur/Joker said in this movie
There was a whole other part before that line that made it make a little more sense. I forgot it tho lol gotta wait for that blu ray
And I'm growing so tired of it.
@@TonTon.2142 go watch MCU
In his real appearance on the Murray show, Joker says "this is exactly how I imagined it, " to which Murray replies, "well that makes one of us." It wasn't for comedic effect. The Joker's line had to be put in the movie to make it clear to the audience that this wasn't Arthur's imagination. This was real.
Throughout the movie, every one of Arthur's imaginations are pure wish fulfillment whereas real life sucked. Without that line near the end, it would be too easy to interpret that scene as wish fulfillment. Murray and the audience laughing at him rather than with him is also evidence that it was real. The alley bit at the end was likely just Arthur thinking about Bruce after having learned about it and finding it funny (or sad).
elheber That part where he’s thinking about Bruce is the only part that makes me question what’s real and what’s not real. I say that because he didn’t actually see Bruce’s parents get murdered, so how could he have a memory of an event that he didn’t witness? On the other hand, you could argue that he was simply thinking about Bruce’s parents getting killed, and the clip shown was just a visual representation of that, rather than an actual memory.
Dom Philbrick I think it’s probably the ladder.
Dom Philbrick I can honestly see it as they told him what happened and he just saw how it went down in his own head and found it funny that the kid who had everything he didn’t got fucked over as much as he did.
But what if his imagination also made people look bad? Feeling persecuted is common for people with certain mental illnesses.
Like, Arthur's imagination did make him look good (funny, charismatic, ladies man etc) but what if it also made people and/or the situation look bad (or worse than they really were) so he could have enough reason to remove that threat?
@@calamorta Well, that is possible too. Mental illness is horrible. :(
he wrote “the funny thing about mental illness” with his dominant right hand and switched to his left and to write “people expect you to behave as if you don’t” which he thought was funny
yup, the scene behind the veil at Murray's show he was holding the cigarette in his left hand, another one when he starts dancing..
Interesting, how do you know that? .. did it show that?
At least you caught that
jeaangulo i work at a movie theatre. i’ve seen the movie multiple times on my own and i walk in on the movie and notice something new every time
After he leaves the scene of the train shooting when he’s chasing down the last guy, he holds the gun with his left hand. That’s the only time I paid attention to his hand dominance, but I don’t know why else he’d use his left hand.
Jack Nicholson: “Do I look like I’m joking?”
Heath Ledger: “Do I look like a guy with a plan?”
Joaquin Phoenix: “Do I look like the kind of clown that could start a movement?”
Jared Leto: “HONKA HONKA!”
Edit: Wow, guys! Thanks for the likes!
Lololol fuck leto trash lol
Mark Hamill: I AM THE GUY TO PRESENT THIS SICK SHOW CALLED LIFE
Animated Joker should be on the list
Jared Leto: "I am not someone who is loved. I’m an idea. State of mind. I execute my will according to my plan and you, are not part of my plan."
Tim curry: WAHA WAHA WAHA
"My mother died...
I'm celebrating."
I think I was the only one in the theatre that found that funny.
**awkward only one laughing Arthur moment**
But seriously, if I heard him say that I'd be wishing him a good day and getting the hell out of there.
@Tamer Ciftci DC was always darker in tone than Marvel even back in the comics in the 60's when Marvel was on the uprise and DC was struggling
@Tamer Ciftci you can like both things. Let's stop these unnecessary comparisons whenever a DC or Marvel movie gets released
@Tamer Ciftci you don't listen do you .
Martha??
Best part of the movie is when his gun falls out at the children's hospital
Best part of the movie is that long one between the opening credits and the ending credits.
The part when the midget couldn’t reach the door latch.
That's the only time I laughed.
When he walked into the glass door I lmfao
@@Jalex_Owns That was the best part of the movie!
You know the Joker is a masterpiece when Jeremy is already on his second spoiler talk video.
Prepare for the third
So you judge what is a masterpiece by how many videos someone else does?
@@Syklonus he rarely make 2 spoiler talk about a movie
@@Syklonus no I definitely do not. But I definitely thought this movie was a masterpiece, movie of the decade, there's before Joker and after Joker Etc. I could go on and on.
@@412JFury nah
I'll be honest, while I love complex stories like this and think that everyone is allowed to interpret it however they want, I think the whole "it was a dream", trope just really undermines the message if the movie. The story is so powerful because of how plausible it all is. There are people today with mental issues that are neglected, as well as children who are abused by their caretaker. Thinking it is all fake or that there is a conspiracy plot just sucks out all the tension for me.
Kango234 Can’t say I agree my friend. This movie is one of those rare gems that gets the “It was all a dream” trope RIGHT
Paola Elizabeth Morales I mean, there’s nothing in the movie that necessarily confirms it did that trope. It certainly shows that Arthur is an unreliable narrator, but it never outright stated that none of the experiences were real
It might be a dream for now, maybe a plan for later. A mix perhaps.
Some of it did happen, some didn’t, but Arthur is telling this story and possibly TRYING to make the shrink lady/us feel sympathetic by exaggerating some parts.
I think the “it was a dream” trope was actually Arthur’s coping mechanism! It was perfect for his character who suffers from mental illness and later finds that a major part of his world was a lie! His “mother” being the root cause of his condition, his poor well being! His reality was crashing down on him! That’s also why he was smoking more as the movie progressed.
That whole 'It's all imagined" shit doesn't fly with me - it obviously isn't.
Damo Agreed. That’s just bad writing; I think the people in charge of this movie are smarter than that.
@@UR_Right24 I respectfully disagree. I think that one of this movies strong points is that it makes you think, even though we don't have all the answers. I think it would actually be more disappointing if they did give us a straight answer. I like that it keeps us guessing and invested
@@UR_Right24 some of the best prices of art are ones that start a conversation with guessing, not end conversations with answers.
Pieces*
@@UR_Right24 mmm... someone had said that this is Arthurs perspective of events.. however since he hallucinates and cant tell whats fantasy n reality that leaves us to see that everything in the movie isn't real but some of the things are.. some of the violence might even be exaggerated since all of this is his point of view
I never heard him cry, *He was always such a happy boy*
Arthur is always laughing, he’s never actually crying
You can just imagine his forced laughter instead of crying driving his step father crazy and him getting beat even more for it.
Layzie _65 at times he is crying, in the very intro of the movie it shows his makeup running, also when he gets his moms medical file he has a complete breakdown where due to his condition he isn’t even able to vocally cry but you can his nose running and the pain in his eyes
desolation exactly, that’s my point, she never *Heard* him crying
@@layzie_6546 Every time he cried he had a laughing fit too. Believably laughing and crying at the same time- how did Phoenix do it? Pure genius!
What's sad is while being beaten, starved and chained to a radiator his crying was laughing. It's makes her "he was always a happy child" comment even sadder.
DefLepRadar this movie is just so great in how it gets so many people to discuss it and come up with theories and come together to find the meanings
I’m still thinking about this movie 3 days later, it’s incredible
Same
I’ve been binge watching joker videos on RUclips
I forgot everything Marvel did.
me too,damn this movie fucked me up,now I'm thinking what was real and what's not
I'm still thinkin' of the John Wick franchise years or months later
I interpreted the movie exactly how it’s shown. That’s it. His mother was insane. He’s not Thomas Wayne’s son. He went on the show. He killed Murray. He survived the crash and is Luke Skywalker’s son. It’s pretty straight forward.
@Miguel Pires woooooooshhhhh
@Miguel Pires ...You wouldn't get it.
No, dude; he's not Luke Skywalker's son. Joker is a Palpatine.
I think this joker could be a backstory for many jokers, including dark knight and Arkham series
Arthur: My mother always tells me to smile and put on a happy face.
I like to imagine that penny only said this to Arthur to not make it look like Arthur was abused. Similar to when you accidentally made your younger sibling cried, but tried your best to cheer them up before mom comes home and sees her kid crying. In this scenario penny doesn't want the public to know that Arthur was sad and abuse, so she told Arthur to simply smile.
That's a good metaphor
To add to this;
“She told me I had a purpose. To bring laughter and joy to the world”
Maybe, in her delusional mind, adopting Arthur in hopes of having a “family” with Thomas Wayne, would bring laughter and joy to HER world.
@Tamer Ciftci Was there really any need to bring the MCU into this discussion?
@Tamer Ciftci Cmon dude, this is the one good DC movie...
@Tamer Ciftci The MCU is a different kettle of fish to this film. It was/is an ongoing cinematic universe. Joker is a one shot film, made with no intention to build a franchise off of it.
I completely disagree that the MCU films are inherently childish, yes they're definitely aimed at children as part of their audience demographic, but to say that it's "childish" is quite frankly baseless.
Let's just focus on the subject of this video which is Joker. Not the MCU, not it's demographic, nor a need to be "woke" about films.
Simply, Joker.
This movie has kept me thinking days after it’s actually nuts
hHerb- Same here! I’ve seen it twice, and I’m still thinking about it! A film that makes you think is an excellent film in my book.
hHerb- what are you thinking about?
"I thought of a joke.... you wouldn't get it" Then he kills the therapist (running down the corridor with blood on his feet). That's the joke she wouldn't get. It's funny to him, it isn't funny for her.
he says "you wouldn't get it" as That's Life starts playing. She doesn't get it. She doesn't get life as he's about to kill her.
exactly what I got from the scene
Considering, Arthur is nice to those people who are nice to him like Sophia and that midget so he left them alive but when it comes to the therapist, she also didn't do him any harm, I think so can anyone tell me why exactly he killed the therapist?
@@everythingisawesome2903 you wouldn’t get it
I do love how even of Arthur and Bruce aren’t biologically related, the Joker and Batman were born on the same night, so they’re still brothers...
This is open to interpretation dude, remember the picture Thomas wayne sends the joker's mom saying "I love your smile"?... What if Thomas Wayne forged all of the adoption papers??
@@DiegoGonzalez-ic3si exactly, he had the power to do something like that
@@DiegoGonzalez-ic3si that's what I was thinking too
Either way born on the same night
@@DiegoGonzalez-ic3si isnt that why he says "even if". Come on man, calm down
"If I'm going to interpret this movie, I prefer it to be multiple choice."
*Joker:* "Come on, Murray... Do I look like the kind of clown that could
start a movement? I killed those guys because they were awful. Everybody
is awful these days... it's enough to make anyone crazy."
👌
You're awful Murray..
@@experienceanimation217 Yeah, Muh-RAY.
Okay so that's it you're crazy, that's your defence for killing three young men?
@@xrphoenix7194 No.... They couldn't carry a tune to save they're lives
“Reality is whatever I want it to be.”
-Arthur Fleck, probably
Haha
"Seize the means of production"
-Arthur Fleck, probably
Tamer Ciftci I mean you are putting out straight facts though
@@kp1x with all due respect, Thanos also has a dark origin story compable to this joker. Thanos i think is only villian that can actual philosophicaly debate with joker.
Spoiler Alert:
Bruce Wayne's parents got murdered in an alley
No shit?
@@ardavaztterterian1211 r/woosh
😧
@@aleksikulmala6397
You: woosh
Me: *Looks up woosh in urban dictionary*
Urban dictionary: woosh (definition): A joke that goes over someone's head.
Me: *dead*
@Gmail com what the FOOOOCK really?
When Thomas Wayne is speaking on TV he mentions that all Wayne employees are “family” and Penny picks up on it. So I can imagine somebody that suffers from delusions like Penny taking that seriously and fuelling her delusional belief that her adopted child is the son of Thomas as they’re his ‘family’
But in her old photo that joker looks into after she dies, theres a writing behind it that says i love your smile T.W.
Small moment in the movie, but I love the part where his boss is yelling at him, and he's slowly making a huge grin and then it cuts to him kicking a pile of garbage.
Yeetimus Prime yes absolutely amazing
Hey, you are right! I liked that scene too. I really thought he was gonna attack his boss.
I saw this movie twice and I looked closely the second time. I really think it was just garbage he was kicking 🤷♀️ I didnt make out a body
@@Angelwearsblack89 nobody said he was kicking a body
Stannis the mannis MatPat did
“News Sites” like Buzzfeed and Vice are saying the movie is awful. That should tell you that the movie is great.
i can literally smell the oozing soy from their articles
I reckon they are uncomfortable with it showing the reality behind why people like Joker could and do possibly exit, without demonising them.
It has a 70 percent on Rotten Tomatoes and for a movie thats been bashed by critics, thats actually a really great score. 70 percent critic score with a 91 audience score
Vice isn't saying the movie is bad, they just used it as a jumping off point to talk about incel violence
Those bimbos are just made for twilight.
Most underrated line in the movie:
"You're a good dancer. You know who's not? Him! *BANG!*"
People never seem to give love to the bit where Arthur speaks in the British accent "Fackin' crazy innit? Me on the telly".
Daniel Clark wait where was that?
@@shouryaxalxo6182 The scene after he gets a gun and accidentally shoots a wall.
Shashank7170 Ahhh, thanks.
@@shouryaxalxo6182 honestly had a hard time remembering it myself, googled the line and found results.
A perfect example of Arthur’s inconsistency is when he shoots the yuppies in the train. The gun holds 6 bullets, but he shot the gun 7 times.
He also put pills in his mother oatmeal, but told the EMS worker (in the ambulance) that his mother doesn’t take medication, and didn’t remember that last time he spoke to her.
More like he shot them 8 times
1 bullet for the 1st guy 2 bullets for the 2nd and he shoots the third guy on the foot then on the back then shoots him 3 more times when he is crawling in the stairs
Yooo I thought I was the only one!! He totally fired the gun 8 fucking times I was wtf? I think it was his mind getting carried away with the power and control
I was also counting during that scene and he REALLY SHOT 8 TIMES!
I actually talked inside the cinema asking "Wait what? That was eight (shots)!"
There are two scenarios which may explain it
1) He reloaded (off screen) while inside the train
2) Part of his imagination the additional 2 bullets from that jolt of anger.
This movie does really put the audience into thinking state
Does anybody remember if the bag he got the gun in had any extra bullets in it?
@@javirios3107 yeah it did
Most heartbreaking thing was when he was laughing uncontrollably and people said why you laughing and he tried explaining he has a condition but he can't find his explainer card and then gets beat up for being weird.
But then we all cheer when he gets a triple kill and fills the last guy with bullets.
Saddest part is that even if he had given them his explainer card they would have probably beaten him up even more
But then it brings the best scene on the train.
It was heartbreaking until he filled them with lead, then it became very satisfying.
Also he did not get beat up for being weird, he got beat up because the guys were pieces of shit that thought they are better than others.
Bruh 😂😂😂 this is gold stg nobody gets it
Hamza Malik I didn’t cheer
"Why did you have a gun at a childrens hospital?"
"Its a prop"
And after this he convinces himself of his lie and starts adding it to his 'act'
accidental inspiration is just another tool in an artists toolbox ;)
I love when the camera zooms out from the show and its shows all the monitors and on one of them you see him get tackled by cops while talking into the camera
Which makes me think the car accident part was all a delusion. He believed people would worship and save him but still nobody knew who he was behind the clown make up. The punchline was that he was a symbol, just like the bat
@@dudemanbroguy3464 I like to believe everything was real and it happened in that order
Oh my missed that!
@Jared Devan well yeah the relationship was all in his head but everything else I like to think it's true
I’m not sure his encounter with Murray on his show the first time was real either. The way Murray facial expression was when Arthur later told him he felt like he known him for years or something seemed off.
I thought the scene of him dancing down the stairs represented his descent into madness and his embrace of it in contrast to slowly walking up earlier in the movie. I’m gonna have to watch this one again and I never do that.
I totally thought that too. He was always trying to rise (going up stairs) and then when he embrace himself he knew that he had to finally descend.
brilliant
totally thought that as well
do confirm it after watching it again
How do u get that representation from a scene that just shows him walking down stairs?
If the whole movie was in his head then his girlfriend wouldnt be fake in his fake imagination
Wooooooooooooooooow mind blown.
but not if hes fantasizing about his own mental illness. Like if he wants her to be fake to make his condition seem worse, it develops more self pity.
not to mention if it’s his imagination why would tom wayne and his wife die? it actually happened
@@stankboxers imagination can still involve real events he would have just projected himself into the fantasy (if the dream theory was real which I doubt honestly)
Could be like the movie Inception, a madness within his madness.
This movie mastered the multiple choice idea and the hallucinations that Arthur Fleck has in this movie. What an amazing movie.
It also gave you a sense to what is funny for Joker even if it is too dark to laugh at. Made me laugh on things I shouldn't have. :(
It really did. The more you think on the movie, the more you legit wonder "was that even real?" Like, the Zazie Beats character was, to me, obviously a delusion, but I think it was less a "6th Sense" reveal and more a "if this wasn't real, are you confident any of it was?"
Ex. Where did the woman that was harassed on the train go?
Are you sure? When we see him in Franklin show for the first time we are back into his apartment, when he is meeting with Sophie Dumond they are show what really happened same with his young mother. So I personally don't see any "mastering of multiple choice idea".
I thought of the whole “father” thing as Arthur feels like a nobody. He doesn’t feel special and feels like no one pays him and anyone walks over him. Then he find out Thomas Wayne is his father. The biggest, most important/famous man in the city is his dad. He finally has a purpose. He is important. He goes to Wayne then gets put down and told his mum is crazy and when he find out it’s true then that’s the last straw. He has nothing He is lost. It’s the final piece in the puzzle into making him the joker
What sucks is that it doesn’t really matter if Penny really is crazy or Thomas Wayne is really his dad because he’d still be left to die on the streets. He knew this, which is why he crumpled up that picture of Penny.
Here is my theory:
The whole movie is Joker remembering his past while he is at Arkham. The scene at Arkham takes place several years after the scene where he stands on top of the police car. Batman exists at that point and Joker knows his identity, hence why he is laughing at the irony that he is responsible for Batman's existence.
Edit: Thanks for the likes guys!
This is pretty good
Interesting that's pretty much what I thought about it too. Because the guy doesn't look like he is 30years old only. Must be that he is remembering his past with his present body.
@@Jebu911 That's actually a very interesting theory. Remembering the past with his present body. As great as Joaquin is, I don't like the idea that he will pretty much be a senior citizen by the time Batman becomes a thing. This is a cool way of looking at it!
@Keyser Soeze If Joker ever knew Batman's identity, he wouldn't really care unless it was something like this where he "created" him.
@@parkerboy795 how could he possibly know batman's true identity??
Prior to him accepting the Joker persona, whenever he's imagining things he's always extremely confident and doesn't have the inappropriate laugh. But as I recall the bathroom scene with Thomas he doesn't execute the perfect responses and does have the unfortunate laugh. So it's plausible to me that it went down the way we saw it.
I remember that but I actually just got back home from watching it for a second time and I noticed that there was nothing wrong with his face like after that encounter with Thomas he was bleeding from his nose but then there’s no bruise.
I think you're right.. The best way to differentiate between his fantasies and realities is by watching the behaviour of the people around him..
Even his relationship with his neighbor shows to be fake. The fact that she isn't creeped out by him following her and why would she leave her daughter alone to go on a date
Nah, at the beginning of the move, when he is at the Murray Franklin show as public, he is got the laugh, but he was dreaming it.
good observation.
This movie is going to need several views to pick apart the layers and analyze...
Good point.
Ima bet you all this movie will be number 1 on Jeremy’s top 10 movies of 2019
If I know Jeremy (and I should I've been watching for 5+years) then it's happening.
Ima bet its gonna be Rise of Skywalker.
Coz, he loves JJ.
I think I'm one of the only people who didn't enjoy the film.
Noe Hernandez either 1 or in the top 3
I mean if I remember correctly it’s currently his only awesometacular of the year so far
I choose to take everything in this movie literally. The whole "it was a dream bro" thing would just destroy this film for me.
Same but I do appreciate this extra layer that calls back to how the Joker will always be a mystery and have an undefined past.
I think it's true that Thomas Wayne is the one who wrote "I'll always love your smile" on the back of the picture with his initials. Maybe it was just his way of thanking her upon leaving work. Or as part of a get-better-soon card. It would add another reason Arthur was always told by his mother to always smile. She did it because that's the one thing Thomas Wayne took noticed of at work. She's clearly obsessive when it comes to TW.
Blind faith and no continued therapy. Scary stuff
I think Todd Philips designed this movie so everyone can be right
Beautiful work
I still cant believe that this movie was made by the guy who directed road trip and the hangover trilogy
ablurt_55 yeah man it’s actually nuts! Who would have thought
@@ARBLACKx War Dogs had some strong moments but yeah, it was quite a jump to Joker
@@ARBLACKx remind me of the writer of chernobyl is the same writer as hangover
The "joke you wouldn't understand" is that everyone looking for his true his backstory and taking it so seriously, but he himself doesn't care at all
Chase H. He even says that he likes to see his backstory as multiple choice
The only thing that Arthur imagined was the relationship with that girl and his first appearance in the talk show. The movie deliberately shows us that he imagined it. It didn't show us anything else. So, we have to assume that everything else happened. If they weren't so deliberate on those occasions, then we could've talked about these other theories.
Maybe, but what was the point of showing us he imagined that relationship? The relationship didn't really add anything to the story other than to show us he is believing things that aren't real. So why did the movie go so far out of its way to show us this?
@@sarahpfeuffer1396 I believe, the director didn't trust the audience to understand that Arthur was imagining his relationship with the girl. So, he deliberately showed those flashbacks.
The flashbacks is my only problem with this film. We didn't need them. But the film is really excellent in my opinion.
Dave Bautista wait he imagined going out with that girl? I thought he actually did that. I guess it was too good to be true
He also imagined being on stage with Murray in the beginning so I would think that some things arent the way they seem plus its in arthurs/ jokers point of view and we can't trust what he says or sees. I think its up to the audience to try and figure out what was real and what wasnt
I'm going to believe that "height of anarchy" scene at the end was real because this is the Joker we're talking about. He has a well established history of setting the town on fire.
If we'd seen Joker actively organise and lead the movement, I'd have thought that it was a delusion of grandeur, but because he only sparks the movement accidentally and has nothing to do with it until the very end, I'm inclined to believe that it's real.
@Michael Anderson exactly! I think that the death of Bruce's parents scene is in the movie because we know that that is real. We're already familiar with that scene.
@ThejollyFrenchman The guy killing the Wayne parents had a joker mask though; which he doesn't have in other accounts. That was clearly the joker thinking back and inserting himself into the story (I just thought of a joke) - so we don't know how reliable the connection is: it could be that there was a connection but that the guy didn't have a mask IRL, or it could be all wishfull thinking on Jokers part
I'm not buying this whole theory that everything we
saw was in Arthur's mind. For one thing every time we saw him
hallucinate, he would envision something BETTER than his actual life.
When he was bombing on stage in reality, he would envision himself
getting laughter and applause. When he was sitting in his apartment
watching Murray on TV, he would envision himself in the audience being
singled out and praised by Murray. And when he would barely be given the
time of day by an attractive woman, he would envision himself having a
full relationship with her. So if this whole movie was just in his head,
why the hell would he envision himself getting jumped, getting fired,
getting his meds shut off, getting lied to by his mom, and getting
humiliated on live TV by someone that he respected more than anyone?
because as you said, he envision something BETTER;
"You wouldn't get the joke don't you?" when he was sitting on Arkam Hospital, he envision his life contribute for creating Batman, someone who will complete him and be his counterpart.
While Arthur's actual life might not contribute to that at all. It's just on his mind. That's why he obsessed with Batman, because that's how he imagine his life.
@@wqi09 But he would not have been imagining a better life if everything was in his mind. He would have been imagining himself IMAGINING HIMSELF having a better (and much worse) life, and that makes no sense. However, you did make a good point. I do believe most of the last part of the movie was another dulusion, mainly the part where he is freed and stands on top of the police car being cheered. Perhaps even the death of Bruce Wayne's parents were part of it as well 🤔
@@KoolKeithProductions I'm not convinced the part where he stands on the police car was a delusion. I think it's contrast to his complaint that he it were him on the street, they'd walk right over him. Now that he's Joker, and is learning to embrace the waves of chaos, he finds himself surrounded by chaotic people who would also happen to not step over him when they saw him dead or dying.
Shut up you know nothing about films your probably depressed
He couldn’t buy a gun. He even says that when the dude hands him one. He can’t legally buy a gun because of his prior psychiatric imprisonment.
Makes sense, but that's all in theory, right? It's not like they check background when you want to buy a gun in America. Also, it was the 80's, and business was bad for everyone. Wouldn't surprise me if they sold guns so they wouldn't go bankrupt.
He never says that to the guy that gave him the gun... He just says they're not allowed to have guns...
I think I'm one of the only people who didn't enjoy the film.
in the phone call, its stated the guy who gave him the gun said arthur was trying to buy one off of him for a while, so maybe his coworker didn't actually give it to him for free and just had it bought off him, it would be in arthurs wish fulfillment mind that people would treat him with that amount of respect and kindness, even the coworker saying "you're my boy" sounds vaguely familiar to when he imagined himself on the Murray franklin show
Nice to know Gotham has somewhat capable gun restrictions lmao
On These Theories:
- Just because he may be back in Arkham imagining those events does not mean the whole movie was fake. It could mean he thought of it and was about to go do it. Just a flashback to the moment where he started planning a bit.
Even if he did indeed kill the therapist, maybe the other scenes after that event he was just imagining her there? Therapists are guides in a sense to some - reasonable person for him to cling to in that way.
- He was clearly abused by a crazy mother. That was verified by paperwork. She suggestively admitted to it when he mentioned it. She never said that was forged - only said the adopted part was.
So I don’t think that particular one was a mystery. In fact I think it was intentionally verified in a few different scenes because it explains exactly why he is so fucked up.
- The “he died and is in purgatory” theory is completely absurd, defeats the purpose of the movie and should hold no credence lol.
WorthySire
I mean if we say he died after being hit by the ambulance then the spirt of the Joker lives on and maybe inspires another person out there to follow in his footsteps, he truly becomes a symbol
that purgatory theory is kinda interesting because when they pulled him out and put him on the car Arthur was in a cross pose and woke up to a crowd worshiping him. In his mind he died and resurrected as the Joker. Then again this could also work if he didn't die
WorthySire
Completelly agree.
Purgatory BS is crazy talk. No reason whatsoever even to consider that.
Adaptable {Mr. NerdyGamer} filmmakers use themes all the time. Him in a cross pose was clearly to indicate that in his mind and the city’s mind he was their savior. Not that he died. If he was supposed to have died then it would have been more clear. Not to mention there is absolutely no basis or suggestion in the movie for any spiritual element that would lead to a mental asylum “purgatory” scene.
The idea just has no foundation. If you want it to be that, then sure think its that. But lets not pretend like the film at all communicated it.
Honestly probably an idea a theorist just put out there to stretch their youtube length out to 10 mins.
Space Penguins okay. No one said that wouldn’t happen if the Joker died. The point is there is not any basis for saying the movie communicated that.
Like even if we were to stretch it and say he didnt really stand up in a crowd of people - there is stilll no suggestion that he died in the movie.
If he wasnt really there then he as in an asylum. Either way saying he died is just....really forced.
If he imagined the whole movie than the relationship with his neighbour was a imagination in an imagination? Nah man, the movie really happened
cody bolo lol right
That's what I've been thinking
Best line in the movie happened in his Apartment... “Don’t Look”. 😂
Was it the gunshot part? I honestly forget now. Gotta see it again.
@@dootslayer3907 little dude walking past the guy he just bashed the skull of
Very calmy and almost with a bit of care Joker says "don't look"
Do you people call it mini golf or just golf? lol 😂
@@Cronicrisis Oh derp that was pretty funny. Thanks for answering.
I made this comment on the "Film Theory" channel:
"Joker" can be seen as a kind of mirror to "Batman Begins" -in "Batman Begins" we see the world of Thomas Wayne from the perspective of Bruce Wayne but in "Joker" we see the world of Thomas Wayne from the perspective of The Joker. In the view of Bruce, Thomas Wayne is a good man and the savior of the city -in the view of The Joker, Thomas Wayne is an a-hole and a part of the problem."
Rickard Zingmark And I think somewhere in the middle of those two perspectives is the reality
I had a broken theory about it being a PTSD memory of his interactions with Fleck and his parents murder, and cobbled together information from the news and rv. It would show that Batman has been obsessed with the Joker all his life. But it doesnt play out as a viable theory.
Awesome idea!
Rickard Zingmark Wow, you thought of that all by yourself? Amazing, wow.
They are very two very different Thomas Waynes
I think that Arthur is 30. Remember, he had a traumatic childhood, he smokes a lot and takes lots and lots of medicine. That can make your face age significantly faster. Also some people just age worse than others.
Also, if I remember correctly, Murray calls him 'kid' in his imagination
@@drdramatik 30 is hardly a kid, maybe 20 is OK.
@@antoniettabombardelli8868 I'd imagine Arthur likes to think that way
@@drdramatik true.
I like to think that he's 30, and the movie is a memory where he is projecting himself as he is years later.
I think for Arthur to have imagined that he was imagining Sophie to be with him that whole time, only for him to imagine the fact that it was all in his head the whole time, makes that whole “the movie didn’t actually happen” theory kinda fall flat.
Quinton Vonesh ya the doesn’t the therapist as “why did you do it?” Or something to that extent. Meaning he did something to be there, I think he did do all of it. Just the escape part at the end was all just a delusion
The more time he is without his meds his reality becomes less and less. The first murray show scene you see its made up relatively quick. Then the neighbors fantasy takes way longer . so who knows if he is just in a state of permanent fantasy.
The scene at the end in the cop car when he had his head pressed against the glass gave me serious Heath Ledger vibes.
That's because the scene was nearly identical. Shot from the same angle, same time of day and a Joker delighted in the aftermath of a chaotic event. The only thing missing was him sticking his head out of the window.
A great homage to Heath Ledger
I like that! "The movie, Joker, itself is multiple choice."
Amidst all the different interpretations I think the important thing to hold onto is the connection between audience and protagonist. Our confusion is Arthur's confusion. We are stuck in logic hell because he is too. He isn't trying to confuse us or himself, the truth is just doing its best to hide itself from his mind. But the protagonist's accomplishment in this story is that he learns to live without the desire to know the truth about himself.
"Do you guys call it mimiture golf, or just regular golf?"
tleeg74
I was the only person in the theatre who laughed at that part - was so awkward
@@rorylennon4043 haha....my theatre laughed.
@@rorylennon4043 People prob scared or ashamed to laugh at that one. A lot of things in this movie makes you question your morality. I love it.
*miniature
@@rorylennon4043 Me too!
Me : oh Jeremy has theories on joker..yay!
Jeremy : I donno what's real
Joker didn’t have one bad day, he had one bad day everyday🥺
Maybe he had to just imagine good days
Todd Phillips said in an interview in a couple years he's open to talk about what was real and what wasn't
I think he should just leave it to the viewer to decide... Who needs a "Canon" explanation, especially in a standalone character movie.
@@StephenIC me
And then the media tried to crucify him
He shouldn't. We'll speculate forever if he doesn't explain.
He should do what David Lynch does... not explaining any shit at all.
😅😅
I've only seen the film once, but this was my (possible) interpretation: everything at the beginning of the film happens exactly as we see it... until Arthur runs out of his medication. Everything after that could have been hallucinations, Arthur going crazy because he has no medication keeping him relatively sane.
Or the whole movie actually did happen the way we see it happen. 🤷♂️
I agree Kaden. I got the same impression.
Yeah, but the scene where he made out with his neighbor was before his last meeting with his psychiatrist. So he started imagining things before he ran out of his medicines.
I love how we have been introduced into Joker's world where we are not sure what his past is. Because neither is Joker
what i've realised that this movie is not about the origin story of joker batman arch nemisis like all the other movies still the origin of the JOker is unknown i belive the whole movie is in his head till the last scene of psychiatrist talking to him i think she was asking him questions about him his life story and in his head he made this whole story till the last scene at asylum then he kills her....audiences still doesnt know what his origin is .... THATS Y JOKES TELLS AUDIENCE U WOULDN'T GET IT :)
That's a good theory man :)
I love how the movie stayed true to the Joker. The movie might’ve happened. Might’ve not. It’s genius.
The banging on the wall keeps me thinking about this
Hoping we get an extended cut. Just heard there's about 30 minutes of deleted scenes.
Hope it's better
A lot of those scenes don't fit with the movie. I think they filmed them so the twist wouldn't be leaked.
@@tadsta I think they could find a way to make those few scenes work. Make it some kind of Alternate Version.
@@tadsta which twist do you mean bro?
@@DiegoGonzalez-ic3si the sophie relationship not being real
I think he is his father. Alfreds reaction was very telling. Not like “oh this shit again”. But like “nope. Nothing happened. Nothing to tell.”
Mmhm, yep! I noticed that too. Why keep it a secret? Thomas Wayne were running for Mayor & wanna cover up any mishaps, so that no one would dig it up.. 🤔🤔
I hope Wayne is Arthur's dad because until this movie came out, nobody ever wrote that Joker and Batman could be half brothers. It's an original take on a rivalry that has been written in so many different ways over the years. Props to Todd Philips and Scott Silver for coming up with something that hasn't been done before.
@Voido I agree on your theory, as well. Who knows, it is Arthur's story anyway & that's the gag! 😂
I agree. I also think Wayne in the bathroom acted funny when he mentioned it. I only seen his records once but didn't it say that Arthur's parents are unknown? That seems like the perfect story for a cover up.
Half brothers would explain why they never kill each other
I love how much you’re loving this movie
dont we all ?
No, it wasn't dark enough.
@@harshchoudhary9623 yes we do
TheJRMproductions it was just alright for me. Didn’t love it but I didn’t hate it either. It just... exist... to me. Idk maybe I need to see it again but I don’t understand the hype it’s getting. Honestly, this is probably the best example of a decent film: not great but not shit lol
@@Stud03Muffin Agreed.
Brett Cullen, the actor who plays Wayne:
"in my mind, Thomas Wayne put her there."
yes, but maybe he paid for her treatment?
@@nieznajomy4398 definitely a possibility
Also Thomas Wayne was very obviously a scumbag in this movie.
@@412JFury yeah but it could be the way Joker sees him, not the way he actually is.
it actually reminded me of the plot in the telltale batman games where thomas wayne is indeed apart of all the mob mess and has a heavy hand in arkham. he would send people there if he (or falcone) wanted something from them, using drugs to make them crazy.
kinda like eleven’s mom’s plot as well.
Joker: “I prefer my past to be multiple choice”
And that’s exactly what Todd Phillips did! He wanted the audience to have their own interpretations on how the joker came to be and what the audience wants to believe what’s true and what’s not true. The movie itself can be multiple choice for you.
• Siccdad • Nice profile pic
Myles appreciate it brotha!
That's so fucking meta, right? This movie is about 3 dimensions more meta than Deadpool was. And Deadpool was meta as fuck.
If the story was created by the Joker, just to fuck with the audience, that would be some next level fourth wall breaking.
• Siccdad • you get it!!
I understand some events were real and some were imaginary.
Scenes like the girlfriend were imaginary, or being on the show in the beginning.
I think there is a split between real and imaginary because of the medications he was on. He seems to go in and out of imaginary and real while on medication.
My theory is: after he stopped taking his medication, everything was real... from finding his father/killing his mother/ killing ex coworker/killing the show host/ crowd cheering him as an inspiration and etc. up until he’s back in asylum with the social worker at the end. At this point, we aren’t sure what part is real or not since he’s back in hospital and on meds again.
The reason i think this is, this keeps the core joker’s story in tact. How he becomes a joker makes sense. If we assume everything was imaginary, how does he ever become a leader as a joker?
When he says that he was more clear than ever before after not taking his medications. I believe it. This is his true self. The medications only suppressed it and made him internalize it with hallucinations and etc.
Idk I could be way off lol
99keltin You’re completely right. I think the medication were the cause of the hallucinations.
"Joker weekend, everyday Joker video." Lol, and I'm here for it!
Iam an mcu fan and i support this statement
When he talked to the guy he was trying to get the file from he asks “what do you have to do to get in here” but if he was once committed in the past he know, so why does he even ask?
I heard the line as if he were asking how his mother could possibly have been admitted to a place so severe as that. It adds to none of the stories lining up and him being completely unable to trust anyone's account of anything.
Last time I was this early Arthur wasn't adopted.
spoiler maybe ?
Derick S then you shouldn’t even be watching this video??
Oh shit
I feel like I'm the only one that believes it was all real in the end
Victor Kuhn it was real. I think people are trying to create ideas that have no purpose. It’s pretty upfront on what’s real and what’s not..
Yeah, I think it was all real at the end. He's in Arkham and murders the lady.
@@Chase.Letizia It was real, there is no question about that. The question is, how reliable is it? Is it being remembered by an unreliable point of view or were those the events as they actually happened?
@@Chase.Letizia It's only upfront with Sophie's character. That was the movie letting you know you can't trust everything you're seeing and was probably leaving the rest to the viewer to figure it out. There are some American Psycho type scenes that seem too crazy to be real, but with Joker, they're even more likely to be in his head.
Yeah like him imagining being on the show and his relationship with the girl are definitely fake, but I'm fairly confident everything else was real.
I love the ending when he’s singing along to “That’s Life” as it plays over the shot
My other issue with the picture signed “TW” , the “T”s could’ve been different because if she really is delusional about her relationship with Wayne, she could’ve made the note at the back of the picture different than how she would write it adding to the level of her delusions and illness. I feel like the joke at the end of the movie was something fairly meta like “I’ve created my greatest enemy”. This movie plays with your mind so much.. I feel like at 80% of it happened how we saw and the rest was how his mind saw the world.
I like the "I've created my greatest enemy" because it could be said that Gotham through there actions "Created there greatest enemy" and through his actions he did also!
Could have written it with her left hand instead of right one...just like Author did 🤔
Yeah, but you forgot that the entire movie is narrated through his point of view! There isn't a single scene where you get the point of view of someone that is not Arthur! You experience what he believes he has experiencing. So, knowing that he just "sees" things happen, how can you trust what you're seeing in the movie? And the scenes when it is made clear that Arthur imagines things that never happened, might be the way that the director used to warn the viewers to not trust what they are seeing. Things might have gone as shown in the movie, or might have not or something happened as we've seen them and some other things not. You cannot be sure. You cannot say that the 80% happened as it's shown.
The thing of the picture was the hint that Arthur was indeed Thomas Wayne 's son . That the evidence at Arkham's was falsified . Basically what happens was that after Thomas learning he would have a son . He planned to make Penny looks as a crazed woman . The adoption plot was all false . The last joke was : Arthur was fucked up because he was raised without a father . Now let's see how fucked Bruce Wayne will be because he also lost his father . ( Because both are really half brothers . )
@@AlessioAlessi That is the reason I believe that this movies captures fully the line "I prefer my past to be multiple choice"!
I thought it was creepy how he kept saying Murray’s name while on the talk show at the end, “Hey, Murraaayy”
I love the way he says his name
It honestly felt like a classic joker thing to do. It heavily reminded me of Mark Hamill's version for some reason.
Xmenspy Yeah that’s why I loved it haha
He is mocking him and making fun of him the same way Murray made fun of arthur by playing his video and making jokes about him tables turned and joker got the upper hand
So happy that even though this movie doesn’t follow the comics, it still carries the iconic joker elements
My first reading is that the whole time he was sitting in the mental hospital from the end not remember the movie, but imagining it as if it's what he wants his life to be. Then he proceeds to kill the psychiatrist and escape. Either way, I'm certain the last scene is real and the Joker was born, completing the Origin. And that's my favourite part
That scene where Thomas Wayne punched Arthur, there was a scene that was cut from the movie where Arthur was thrown out of the theater and he was rolling down the stairs. Watch the trailer for this movie And you'll see it.🤙
But because it’s not in the final film you could argue it didnt
@@rhodriwilliams2599 you're right. Intentions change. Now I'm thinking they cut that out last minute to make it more ambiguous.
@@rhodriwilliams2599 I mean you can say that about anything with that theory. Im pretty sure it's a straight forward movie. I mean why would he imagine that he dated a woman who didn't even exsit. Y'all think the crazy man imagined himself to be crazy? Crazy people don't think they're crazy when they're having episodes. that's what makes them crazy. The former is a paradox 😂
Quas FM seriously I just thought of that the other day! I wanted to see that soo bad!!! It was such a cool shot in the trailer!
Another scene- joker walking with the flowers in slow motion wasn't there too. The one from the trailer. I think they cut that out too.
My thoughts are everything happend exept his romantic relationship
@Alviona Hermayanti Hence the except part. The only things I thought didn't happen were the relationship and the fantasy about his first appearance on the Murray show.
Why would everything happen except the relationship? It's obvious it all happened in his head.
@@Sleep_jaywalking What is your logic
For me, the killings happened but the relationship and the worshipping by the public didn't happen
Shit we all probably wrong and the director just did a good job of leaving it up to questions
Odds are that Todd Phillips is the only one who “would get it”
NOPE. This movie is NOT even about "the Joker". They just played all the comic book, high school minded folks in order to get their money.
Go look up BERNARD GOETZ, If you wanna know the super sub plot...there's your lead.
baba duke man gtfo, I’m not even a comic book movie guy or in high school and I was able to enjoy the shit out of this movie, stop being a whiny bitch to try be different and shit on a great movie,
btw, that guy shot some people in self defence in a subway, so what. It’s not that amazing, you’re acting like he was mentally ill, abused as a kid and turned into a homicidal maniac LIKE ARTHUR.
That’s like saying The Godfather isn’t even original cos some cop got shot in a restaurant by an Italian guy some time ago. You’ve gotta get your inspirations somewhere, nothing is truly original when you look at things the way you are.
They made a story about how someone like the joker maybe came to be, they didn’t promise to be religiously faithful to the comics, it’s got a young Batman and his parents and it’s got a guy who becomes a maniacale Clown so yeah it’s about the Joker man
This movie makes a lot more sense, ironically, when you remember who's telling it.
I honestly think that 90% of the movie is real. And no, I don’t think Thomas Wayne is his father.
The only parts I think are not are:
- The first time him going to the Murray show (it was confirmed imagination)
- His first stand up where everyone in the crowd was laughing
- His time with Zazie Beetz
- and yes, Thomas is not his dad
And that’s about it
Agent Chaos Agreed.
Arthur (Joker) conversation with Thomas Wayne in the bathroom happen because in the trailer they showed security throwing Arthur down the stairs in front of the protest riot. That scene didn't make the movie
The part where you imagined him being any age and he’s just imagining himself at that age just opened up a whole slew of doors for this movie.
Surely the "joke" that he is referring to at the end of the film is that through his actions Bruce Wayne became an orphan just as he is
Dom Unknown That actually makes sense!
He says the therapist wouldn’t get it because at the Murray show, he got shut down for the knock knock “your child is dead” joke. He knows the therapist won’t understand why he finds Bruce being dead funny.
Is more of : I become broken because I didn't have a father . Let's see how broken Bruce Wayne will be because he lost also his father . ( Because they are really half brothers . )
How did he know that Bruce's parents were killed though?
@@andrewjennings7306 there is a distict leap in time. we dont know how long it was until he was caught. it might have been that night, it might have been weeks.
Seriously the best movie I’ve seen in a long time. Everything I want from a film.
Daniel Butler I agree 100000% there’s something special about this film
when locked in the bathroom, his mom says: "I signed some papers..."
Pretty sure that was supposed to be a NDA.
The Joker has never been more crazy than in this movie.
Then you've never read scott Snyder's batman run . Trust me that joker is peak joker .
@@a.d8509 tbh I don't understand why in batman vol 3 he never actually cut their faces off. It would be more brutal. Then again, it was to show that it never happened so If batman released them of their pain (killing them) , it wasnt real
@@Ok-eg8dg do you refer to Endgame?
@@flightofthebumblebee9529 no volume 3. Death of the family (even tho there was no death)
Oh, there have been crazier Jokers.
But this is the most *_human_* Joker we've ever gotten, which is even scarier.
Greatest joker line for me from this movie is hands down:
I was just thinking of a joke
-you want to tell me it?
You wouldn’t get it.
Chilling
Bill Goff dude yes! That line got me too!
I think that line from him is literally arthur coming to terms with the fact that he is the only one who understands his jokes. The whole movie he knew he was misunderstood EXCEPT for comedy..he thought he was funny but at the end he realized that no only he gets it. Just further acceptance to who he has become
@@DylanAlexander93 I like to think that he senses that one person would understand the joke. Thomas Wayne's kid. And he is saving it for him :-)
I think the joke was him imagining killing her. He decides to tell her, then you see him step out of the room with blood on his shoes, dancing.
The director clearly revealed the girlfriend scenes to be imaginary, if any other scene was supposed to be from his imagination it would've been obvious,/revealed
Yea, I think people are going deep but in the wrong direction
Or the director did that reveal deliberately to show us that Arthur imagines alot.
Hence it will bring forth the conversations of what's real, whats partially real and what never happened
Phillips came out and said he doesn’t view the film as celebrating the Joker ever. When the Joker stands on top of the cop car he literary gets celebrated, so I took that to be him imagining a crowd cheering him on.
@@PartyAnimalsFTWin there's a difference between the film celebrating him and a crowd in the film celebrating him
That’s how I feel about it too.
“Kisses a midget on the head”
that was a great scene too....
@@ArhamQazi easily my favourite scene. So unsettling. Had no idea if the midget was actually gonna Die or not.
Thats what I like about the joker. Hes unpredictable
Yes, " little person" though
Favorite scene.
@@beverlystraus9300 no midget