Not as good as the original video, but with cool action sequences. Next up: a shitty third video about Hard Drive Revolutions See the original video: • A Terrifying Investiga...
phillip, you've always been a bit crazy and that's why i love watching you, but recently you've been even more manic, what with the caboosing jumpscares and anime benchmark programs. i don't know what changed, but god do i love it
Honestly the CrystalDiskMark thing isn't even entirely his doing, the anime girl versions are presented as equal options on the official site and for CrystalDiskInfo you have to scroll further down the page to _not_ have anime girls lmao
You're missing out on a tiny bit of speed by not having the "M.2 NVMe SSD" (this is the correct naming) installed in the top slot of your motherboard. The top slot or "M.2_1 slot" is directly connected to your CPU with 4 PCIe lanes entirely dedicated for that slot only. "M.2_2 slot" and "M.2_3 slot" (the lower 2 slots on your motherboard) both connect to your chipset with 4 PCIe lanes each, but your chipset handles also a lot of other stuff like most I/O ports (SATA ports, USB, audio, ethernet, thunderbolt). Installing your M.2 NVMe SSD in the top slot is always the optimal solution. (outruling non-comptaible CPUs, for example 10th Gen Intel + Z590 Chipset) For the ones who are still confused about M.2 and NVMe and SSD: - M.2 is a Form Factor, the physical connector is what matters. - NVMe is a Logical-Device Interface, this interface enables the high speeds compared to other drives. NVMe is not restricted to just the M.2 form factor, it can also be found on the HHHL form factor, for example Samsung PM1735. - SSD is the storage type. SSDs typically uses "flash memory", when in comparison HDDs use "circular magnetic disks". Great content as always!
If I had to guess, his OS drive is probably in the M.2_1 slot, but putting the PCIE4 drive in the M.2_1 slot would probably make the PCIE3 and PCIE4 results equal
nvcp>3d settings>shader cache to unlimited, say hello to good old cs go loading speed. it can be problematic for other games, so u can set it to cs2 exclusive
Shader Cache is not only good for loading times, it's good to remove random stutters too, in general it should not cause any issue in a game unless it don't get correct invalidated when the shaders have changed
@@Syping yep good for stutters too. some games like bdo, hogwarts legacy with sh1tty engine could have issues with cache, so that can increase stutter instead of remove, but worth to try.
Personally I think the whole NVMe M.2 thing does actually benefit people. A Like 6 years ago or so, I bought an M.2 SSD, assuming it was NVMe. Only 2 or so years ago when I went to reuse it for my new PC and when I found it wasn't being detected, did I eventually deduce that it was in fact, a SATA M.2 and not an NVMe M.2 drive, because it only worked in the SATA M.2 port. Just because they both use the M.2 slot doesn't mean they're fungible. But yeah, people are stupid.
Yeah I hate that. I would never call my NVMe M.2 that's just the specification. And it's a mess with the M-key stuff. We're dealing with an NVMe memory controller on the M.2 form factor. They're just tiny PCIe devices (Not the M key stuiff). And bloody fast. The underlying storage technology could be Single, Triple or Quad layer memory. Or even flash like cheap SD cards and USB sticks use (Please god no). I found it more interesting that the NVMe you tested plus the DDR5 ramdisk scored about the same - which indicates we've reached an IO bottleneck where either the game unpacking its own content is the bottleneck, or the CPU its doing that on. Very fun tests and I love your videos.
when i build my pc a year ago i actually didnt bought a nvme. they were kinda under my radar. once i realized that they were quite cheap and my motherboard supported them i got one. after cloning my drive to the nvme i didnt notice much of a difference tbh. the system was slightly snappier, but that was about it. as long directstorage doesnt get more widespread there wont be much use for those nvme speeds. i would say its like the difference between 60 and 120 fps. if you really look for it, you can see it, but its not as noticeable as 30 to 60 fps (harddrive vs ssd).
he misrepresented the comments tho. Maybe some people were actually saying that he should call them m.2 drives and not nvme, which is ofc stupid, but many comments that he literally showed on screen said completely different things
@@TheCatOfWarCSGOyeah, midwits trying to look smart are so annoying. A forum i have see a guy saying x64, to refer to modern x86 cpus, and a pedantic midwit says that it does not exist, when everyone knew that it is refering to x86-64. The midwit doubled down and did more 10 replies.
We've reached a point where the limiting factor is legacy Windows I/O handling and how software is still shaped around it. Even DirectStorage isn't completely solving this issue. It's unlike consoles where they can just stream data to specific destination address in the VRAM and skipping all the hoops.
This assumes that loading / parsing the data isn't the greater bottleneck of the two. Zero-copy I/O exists in Linux, I think that's what you are referring to, but add real constraints, compression, encryption, and so on and you end up needing to do something the old way, ruining the beautiful sand castle.
They've also been implementing bypassIO and iorings outside of directstorage games, former reduces CPU use and latter is like multithreading but for your SSD! of course it'll still run like shit but I really enjoyed reading the little devlogs and stuff for them
Apparently it is supposed to be possible to do direct memory addressing (DMA) transfers on windows, and microsoft mentions it even… unfortunately for us developers, they don’t document it anywhere - and more unfortunately for the consumers of products, I doubt many developers would be capable of implementing DMA properly anyway.
what we've learnt today: 1. 3klilksphilip viewers are pretentious 2. the number at the end of the model name doesnt always mean better load times in cs!
We already knew all of those. Philip is constantly struggling with rubbish comments and GPUs are a great showcase of why some smaller numbers are faster than the bigger ones.
3:24 is AI generated, here is how you can tell: - air fryer has two time dials - clothes washer in kitchen (no clothes dryer though) - bag on left counter says "fnis" instead of "finish" - philip is too devilishly handsome and tall - the stove is too long and has way too many doors on it - out of place shoes on top of trash pile - philip is way too handsome - cat is facing the wrong direction while playing - items on counter where there should be a hole for the sink
It's funny that people were correcting you for saying NVME. When I recommend PC components to my friends I specifically tell them to get an NVME drive because I'm afraid if I just say M.2 they are going to buy a Sata speed drive or even worse, an M.2 adapter for something like a Laptop Wifi card.
I very much like how Phillip is one of "my people", in that, "It's my house, i wear a dressing gown because its comfy. Not because its the evening or the morning".
Doesn't matter, Random 4K read is shit even on pcie 5.0 drives..only ramdisk and intel optane dc drives are faster (now discontinued) edit: btw you are getting even worst 4K read than normal, something is keeping your ssd busy; also you probably put the ssd in wrong m.2 slot, that one usually goes through the chipset instead directly to the cpu (you need to check mobo manual block diagram)
why are people pandering about faster ssd u done a fucking ram disk there is a cleare sign faster ss wont have batter results people need to learn how to use theyr fucking brain LMAO
i used m.2 and nvme words interchangably and did wonder if there was a difference. never cared enough to google but i am now a knower thanks to this video
I always been sexually attracted to 3kliksphillip but not in a homosexual way but more like he just seems like a nice guy that u can put ur head on his chest and just talk about life. He seems so humble and down to earth and i feel he eats his vegetables. I really want 3kliksphillip to get some tattoos so he can have that thug appeal because women and men alike love that. It will bring another element to his content.
Yeh, kids these days don't know much about computers. Gaming workloads were not the driving force behind faster and faster hardware; scientific and high end computing are. Like how PCIe 7.0 is planned for next year, yet a 4090 just barely saturates a PCIe 3.0 interface lol. Measurable differences are not noticeable differences. Add overclocking to the list of things that people don't need today, the need for overclocking died some 10 years ago.
Lol at people going berserk about m.2 and NVMe. Anyone who refers to the drives as m.2 are weird, they're NVMe drives. Computer nerds can be so sad sometimes. Keep at it Phil. EDIT: actually, if you had a ton of Ram, seeing what a RAMDISK could do would be interesting, since the speeds of DDR4/5 memory is ballistically quick.
You didnt install it on the primary M.2 slot (M.2_1) of your motherboard... so its going through the chipset and not directly to the cpu... so thats why its probably slower Also why did you put your GPU in the PCIe 3.0x16 slot and not the one closer to the cpu which is PCIe 5.0/4.0x16?
Yeah I still put games on my SATA SSD drive. I feel like the jump from HDD -> SATA SSD was the biggest leap and the rest is like negligible improvements. If anything I believe upgrading your CPU would make loading times faster rather than upgrading an SSD.
I'd like to confrim that the M.2 port that you used is connected directly to the CPU and is not going through the chipset? I'm sure it is given that you know your stuff. IMO, the most important measure of an SSD's performance is its random read and writes, especially with small files. IOPs and latency are also very important. This may not always improve loading times but will make the system feel snappier overall. This is due to CPU not having to wait as often for the SSD (similar to lag when the CPU is waiting for the GPU's render queue to free up). Intel's now dead Optane SSDs were/are the some of the best in this regard. Sadly they are very expensive :( Great content as always. Thank you
I own an ultra fast NVMe M.2 SSD. It's not a brand you would recognize it's a new Brand that was made to specifically make insane SSDs and such mynSSD is so so fast... But I put it in my Laptops I don't even think the port can handle that speed lol. My PC has the slowest m.2 ssd tho from a brand that doesn't even make them anymore. :(
HDD wins anyway... why? the faster your pc gets, the more confuse your CPU gets... so its better loading slowly and steady than faster and sloppy (─‿‿─)
The RAMdisk from the last video kind of represents the lowest possible loading time. Since loading is moving data from storage to RAM, loading from RAM to RAM would be the theoretical limit.
I wonder if that Gen4 drive was throttling its performance because of heat - thus slowing it down dramatically. its definitely a thing - they make some heat, fur sure (cat puns ftw). as wih most things, the faster it is, the more waste-heat it creates they absolutely need some sort of heatsink ***at minimum***
1:46 You clearly put this way louder voluntarily xD also would you happen to be the one making it so every video has Sponsorblock saying this is the highlight of the video xD, ifnot, the person doing tihs xD it's quite fun
I always love when you correct pedants who say things that are blatantly wrong, or even make fun of pedants who are just being nitpicky about things that don't matter, though I concede it's probably soul-crushing to deal with. Also, this might be your best thumbnail.😁
The nvme vs. m.2 sata corrections is pure bikeshedding. Obviously they were NVMEs, you can tell by the fact that they aren't B+M keyed and that they were actually faster than the sata ssds. But the 50 people who learned the difference the hard way feel the need to share their newfound wisdom.
Tech videos attract that kind of viewer. Do a tutorial on something and they'll think it's a display of all your knowledge and will tell you how you should have gone into more depth about something that is completely pointless for anybody looking to learn about it
For games that support re-sizable bar a faster SSD (PCIE Gen4/5) can make a difference, especially when loading large assets. For CS2 though, I don't think we're going to need more than the Gen3 any time soon
That seems unlikely. A standard BAR is 256MB aperture. To max out a fast SSD which is about 7GB/s, the BAR is moved less than 30 times a second. This is ridiculous, you can move it several hundred times a second before it starts really hurting you.
@@SianaGearz That's why I said re-sizable BAR, not regular BAR. Normally, without re-sizable BAR the CPU can only process data in 256MB chunks. With re-sizable BAR the CPU can access the entire frame buffer, not just 256MB
@@xXfzmusicXx I'm saying moving the standard BAR 30 times a second to a new base address isn't that much of an overhead. With reBAR you would have zero moves of course, after a short warm up prime it's going to span effective occupied VRAM for the life of the software, but 30 is still effectively very close to zero, when it can be moved a thousand times a second (but will choke you if you move it this often) and can be moved a few hundred before you see a substantial performance drop. There are very very particular usage patterns which become slow with standard PCI BAR such as scatter writes, which can apply to CPU-generated data under some circumstances but do not match straight up data loading from disk. Large buffer transfers are particularly benign, less risky than many smaller ones.
is there a video's worth of content about keeping computers cat-proof? mostly hair stuff, though if you've ever dealt with cats that steal mechanical keyboard keys you know how deep it can get
Thanks Philippian, I was always confused by the nvme vs m.2 discussion but you cleared it up. The PCIE3 PCIE4 comparison was also very helpful, now I know my upgrade path.
Idk what all those people are on about. Calling it NVMe is much clearer than calling it an M.2. Unless we're talking enterprise (which obviously we're not, it's about loading CS2 for goodness sake), then when you say NVMe, you assume it's in the M.2 form factor. The form factor doesn't even matter, what matters is the actual hardware on the thing, aka NVMe or SATA.
Well, some SSDs are faster if they have more storage because there's more storage chips on them, I can prove for that as I've expirienced that with my old AData SX6000, the 128GB model was way slower than the 512GB model. Another important factor is IOPS (input/output operations per second), fast, large numbers of small file operations make SSDs faster than HDDs.
Preface: I know I've fallen into exactly the same trap by whining about something inconsequential, but thought I might as well add a comment anyway. Love your videos
I love your cat! He's hilarious and sad. By the way, thanks for teaching us the difference between NVME and M.2 SSDs. I'll remember that. It's great that we don't need to spend so much money for fast game storage these days.
Phillip i think you are missing the point of all of the correcting comments. It was confusing that you called your SATA SSD -> SSD but then you called your NVMe SSD -> NVMe. The analogy to your volvo comparison would having a Volvo Car and a Toyota Car. One of them you call a Car and the other you call a Toyota. It is quite confusing in my opinion...
im not 100% sure you are using the nvme in the correct slot. depending on the slot, the drive will either connect directly to the cpu or the chipset. you should be using slot M2_1 for best speeds. it looked like in the video you used slot m2_2. rereloaded incoming?
even if he wasnt, the results would be the same. PCIE4/5 barely, or sometimes doesnt, improve loading speeds in any meaningful way. plus, thats only with cheaper motherboards which share lanes. most newer mobos can use multiple m2 slots without throttling bandwidth.
@@beboid it’s not shared lanes. The cpu has 20 pcie lanes. 16 for the gpu and 4 for the primary nvme drive. If your aren’t in the primary nvme slot, your nvme drive will run over dmi lanes. The dmi lane are running everything on your chipset. So your nvme is sharing bandwidth with usb, etc.
I stop using NVME, and just go with PCIE SSD vs SATA SSD. People doesn't realised that NVME stands for Non-Volatile Memory Express. Heck, SATA SSD can be called NVM, because it's Non-Volatile Memory, but not using PCIE protocol. Yes, it's true, M.2 is just the connector type, we have the internet, yet, people doesn't bother doing research, etc.
Here's another detail nobody cares about: PCI-E 4 and 5 drives have much higher read/write speeds, when it comes to big files, but sometimes WORSE performance when it comes to a bunch of small ones. This metric is referred to as IOPS (input/output operations per second). You can see this during your very fancy waifu side-by-side comparison if you check the bottom two rows. Those show the performance of a bunch of random tiny files. And those are the kinds of operations games do. They have to look for and read a bunch of different assets like models and textures that will not all be nicely served as a big lump. You could potentially see a measurable improvement with a big, expensive drive like an Intel Optane 900P, one of those big chonky boys that plugs into the same kind of PCI-E slot as a GPU does, because those were specifically designed to have higher IOPS for datacenter implementation. Another detail nobody cares about: NVME is just a different implementation of PCI-E, you can literally just get a dumb adapter card to plug an NVME m.2 drive into a PCI-E slot if you don't have any regular m.2 slots free.
M2 screws don't come with drives, they do come with MB. Just as LFF and SFF drives don't come with screws. And wdym its hard to find them online, literally any shop that sells small metric screws have packs with 100pcs of them. Judging by you needing a new screw, you might actually used the drive that goes through PCH, rather than directly to the CPU, which does impact the performance. You might as well connect gen5 m2 nvme via some kind of USB adapter over the network, and wonder why the performance is so bad.
Drive performance is greatly impacted by the software controlling it. Benchmark programs squeeze every little bit out while games have to be specifically designed to leverage faster storage. Reality is often disappointing. Generally speaking, good Gen 3 drives are fast enough to run into software bottlenecks, Gen 4 drives are faster but in limited scenarios, and Gen 5 drives are just kind of silly... Unless you're trying to cram more drives into the same number of lanes, because Gen 5 lanes have double the bandwidth of gen 4 and double AGAIN of Gen 3. This effectively means a Gen 5 system can deliver Gen 3 speeds to 4x the drives of a Gen 3 system, 8 SSDs anyone?
RamDisk RamDisk RamDisk... It is possible with your 64 Gigabytes of ram. This is only intended for the hardcore'ste of players. Something that would not be carried out on 3kliksphilip, as he is only a mediocre content creator for the people.
Keep in mind that CS2 doesn't really need fast read times on a drive, it doesn't utilize streaming very much. In modern games, streaming is becoming a much more regularly practiced technique and that could seriously affect the performance and visuals of a game on a slower drive. In the case of call of duty, having the game on a hard drive can make the game unplayable in certain situations. Not every game is shit though, results vary wildly between games. I'd personally recommend getting a good sized SATA SSD as it's probably the biggest upgrade you can make for your PC (if you're still on an HDD)
WDYM it was impossible to find extra m.2 screws? They are m2x2.5mm screws and have been used on laptops and other electronics for decades. Some devices use m2x3mm or m2x5mm to have a stronger hold on the drive (the second number is the screw length, how far it screws into the standoff) but you can get m2x2.5mm at any hobby store.
I wonder how it would look like in rust since loading time is way longer... I have the same NVME you have in the video and every time a wipe starts we get with my friends instantly, and even though all my friends have SSDs I always get in faster, but not faster by a bit but a lot around 30s-1m, I'm not sure if this is because I format my pc often and they don't or my NVME is just that much better 😎
The only reason why faster NVMe SSDs aren't that impactful is just the lack of two words, "Direct Storage". And yes, it is very awkward that Microsoft didn't do much than just give the devs an option to implement it. And that's it, the same with Auto HDR which they didn't do much to reinforce their ideas to make it a reality. Like they are hoping that someone is going to implement it or something.
Will there be a sequel to this video, rightfully named "CS2 Load Times Revolutions"? (pun intended) Maybe an even faster NVMe that *maybe* surpasses the ones tested before.
one of the possible explanations ive seen online for gen4 nvme drives performing worse than gen3 drives is that often the "gaming" and consumer drives are targeted towards getting the biggest number for the sequential write in crystaldiskmark, and are rushed to market with a much worse *latency* than the, by this point, very high performing & mature gen3 SSDs.
Um, why didn't you test using floppy disks????
most underrated comment
uhhh, how about usb flash drive, casette, cd?
fr
"Please insert disk 2 out of disk 12154" 🤣🤣
Even CS 1.* exceeded floppy disk capacities... But my middle school project Counter-Stick fit on a floppy!
Caboosing must be the best running gag on any RUclips channel ever
Philip once again proving his haters wrong by brute forcing Caboosing on us
I didn't notice it before the "controversy," thought it was just another background song, but I now welcome it as a vital part of Klik canon
My favorite part is how it's always the SponsorBlock highlight
@@UberPanzerhund Same and now I just know something silly will come up when Caboosing starts playing
so it IS getting louder!
phillip, you've always been a bit crazy and that's why i love watching you, but recently you've been even more manic, what with the caboosing jumpscares and anime benchmark programs. i don't know what changed, but god do i love it
Honestly the CrystalDiskMark thing isn't even entirely his doing, the anime girl versions are presented as equal options on the official site and for CrystalDiskInfo you have to scroll further down the page to _not_ have anime girls lmao
@@MadmanEpicSpeaking from experience? Haha
Anime is overrated 🤯
But damn anime chicks hot asf
You're missing out on a tiny bit of speed by not having the "M.2 NVMe SSD" (this is the correct naming) installed in the top slot of your motherboard. The top slot or "M.2_1 slot" is directly connected to your CPU with 4 PCIe lanes entirely dedicated for that slot only. "M.2_2 slot" and "M.2_3 slot" (the lower 2 slots on your motherboard) both connect to your chipset with 4 PCIe lanes each, but your chipset handles also a lot of other stuff like most I/O ports (SATA ports, USB, audio, ethernet, thunderbolt).
Installing your M.2 NVMe SSD in the top slot is always the optimal solution. (outruling non-comptaible CPUs, for example 10th Gen Intel + Z590 Chipset)
For the ones who are still confused about M.2 and NVMe and SSD:
- M.2 is a Form Factor, the physical connector is what matters.
- NVMe is a Logical-Device Interface, this interface enables the high speeds compared to other drives. NVMe is not restricted to just the M.2 form factor, it can also be found on the HHHL form factor, for example Samsung PM1735.
- SSD is the storage type. SSDs typically uses "flash memory", when in comparison HDDs use "circular magnetic disks".
Great content as always!
If I had to guess, his OS drive is probably in the M.2_1 slot, but putting the PCIE4 drive in the M.2_1 slot would probably make the PCIE3 and PCIE4 results equal
@@Zullfix looking at 1:35, the top slot is completely unpopulated
Absolute madlad putting in computer parts wearing a robe, on a carpet, with gloves on. This is why I watch the Klik empire.
nvcp>3d settings>shader cache to unlimited, say hello to good old cs go loading speed.
it can be problematic for other games, so u can set it to cs2 exclusive
Shader Cache is not only good for loading times, it's good to remove random stutters too, in general it should not cause any issue in a game unless it don't get correct invalidated when the shaders have changed
@@Syping yep good for stutters too. some games like bdo, hogwarts legacy with sh1tty engine could have issues with cache, so that can increase stutter instead of remove, but worth to try.
Phillip standing on business at the beginning of the vid 😂
Personally I think the whole NVMe M.2 thing does actually benefit people. A Like 6 years ago or so, I bought an M.2 SSD, assuming it was NVMe. Only 2 or so years ago when I went to reuse it for my new PC and when I found it wasn't being detected, did I eventually deduce that it was in fact, a SATA M.2 and not an NVMe M.2 drive, because it only worked in the SATA M.2 port. Just because they both use the M.2 slot doesn't mean they're fungible.
But yeah, people are stupid.
Yeah I hate that. I would never call my NVMe M.2 that's just the specification. And it's a mess with the M-key stuff. We're dealing with an NVMe memory controller on the M.2 form factor. They're just tiny PCIe devices (Not the M key stuiff). And bloody fast. The underlying storage technology could be Single, Triple or Quad layer memory. Or even flash like cheap SD cards and USB sticks use (Please god no). I found it more interesting that the NVMe you tested plus the DDR5 ramdisk scored about the same - which indicates we've reached an IO bottleneck where either the game unpacking its own content is the bottleneck, or the CPU its doing that on. Very fun tests and I love your videos.
Something rotten going hard in the background 🔥
when i build my pc a year ago i actually didnt bought a nvme. they were kinda under my radar.
once i realized that they were quite cheap and my motherboard supported them i got one.
after cloning my drive to the nvme i didnt notice much of a difference tbh. the system was slightly snappier, but that was about it.
as long directstorage doesnt get more widespread there wont be much use for those nvme speeds.
i would say its like the difference between 60 and 120 fps. if you really look for it, you can see it, but its not as noticeable as 30 to 60 fps (harddrive vs ssd).
I like the anime girls you used in the testing :D
You done Cabossed the GPU holder.
Im from Sweden. and VOLVO IS A GOD DAMN CAR(!!!)
Congratulations on the 1234th video.
caboosed all over us smh
great humor keep it up philip
nVMEs not having screws is so annoying. I recently got a 4TB 990Pro, guess what? No screw.
I feel like the music in your videos have been getting louder recently, even to the point of being uncomfortably loud
he's right, the little detail is not important for normie like me
It's either SSD or HDD
This is by far the coolest thumbnail I have ever seen 🔥
It's not cool at all... it's hot 🥵
@@qwfpgae
"RELOADED".. Tec-9s.. Matrix reference!
1:48 that is truly getting flashbanged on an hdr monitor in a dimly lit room levels of caboosing
i started laughing so hard lmao i love the caboosy
@@ImAltair1cabussy
@@ImAltair1the cabussy
Best thumbnail ever
Thanks, my artistic talents are wasted on shitposts and callbacks to the 00's
@@3kliksphilip they're not "wasted", they're put into good use :)
pls never delete this thumbnail
Imagine not using a clickbait remover that removes custom thumbnails.
i swear caboosing gets more funnier and louder each and every time
I appreciate the double-down on the NVMe/M.2 point. You're completely right.
I know right, its so infuriating when people are pedantic and they're NOT EVEN CORRECT
he misrepresented the comments tho. Maybe some people were actually saying that he should call them m.2 drives and not nvme, which is ofc stupid, but many comments that he literally showed on screen said completely different things
@@TheCatOfWarCSGOyeah, midwits trying to look smart are so annoying.
A forum i have see a guy saying x64, to refer to modern x86 cpus, and a pedantic midwit says that it does not exist, when everyone knew that it is refering to x86-64. The midwit doubled down and did more 10 replies.
Yeah, and yes, it is confusing to people new to ssd's
@@Mic_Glow You know what's not confusing for new people?
"Box SSD" VS fast "Flat SSD"
okay that caboose was absolutely hilarious lmao
osuyuuuuu commentsectionnnnnnn lolawllllllllllll
2:17 Getting Caboosed from head to toe
We've reached a point where the limiting factor is legacy Windows I/O handling and how software is still shaped around it. Even DirectStorage isn't completely solving this issue. It's unlike consoles where they can just stream data to specific destination address in the VRAM and skipping all the hoops.
This assumes that loading / parsing the data isn't the greater bottleneck of the two.
Zero-copy I/O exists in Linux, I think that's what you are referring to, but add real constraints, compression, encryption, and so on and you end up needing to do something the old way, ruining the beautiful sand castle.
They've also been implementing bypassIO and iorings outside of directstorage games, former reduces CPU use and latter is like multithreading but for your SSD! of course it'll still run like shit but I really enjoyed reading the little devlogs and stuff for them
Apparently it is supposed to be possible to do direct memory addressing (DMA) transfers on windows, and microsoft mentions it even… unfortunately for us developers, they don’t document it anywhere - and more unfortunately for the consumers of products, I doubt many developers would be capable of implementing DMA properly anyway.
10 years ago I had CS:GO on a Hard Drive to save space on my SSD because no matter how slowly it loaded, someone elses game loaded even slower.
One time my HDD got slow af and one day it happened: Loading the map took more than 5 minutes and I received a ban :(
wait, what, you didnt test loading CS2 through an old android phone via bluetooth?? how dare you ignore that!!!1
what we've learnt today: 1. 3klilksphilip viewers are pretentious 2. the number at the end of the model name doesnt always mean better load times in cs!
We already knew all of those. Philip is constantly struggling with rubbish comments and GPUs are a great showcase of why some smaller numbers are faster than the bigger ones.
3:24 is AI generated, here is how you can tell:
- air fryer has two time dials
- clothes washer in kitchen (no clothes dryer though)
- bag on left counter says "fnis" instead of "finish"
- philip is too devilishly handsome and tall
- the stove is too long and has way too many doors on it
- out of place shoes on top of trash pile
- philip is way too handsome
- cat is facing the wrong direction while playing
- items on counter where there should be a hole for the sink
Philipgate?! This cat's unreality may shock you.
you knob. one knob is for the time and other knob is for the temperature
Please valve confirm if its ai or not
Valve pls fix
Your Comment is AI generated, here is how you can tell:
- yes
That increase in volume when carboosing hit on the graphs ooof never did I feel more pain xD
It's funny that people were correcting you for saying NVME. When I recommend PC components to my friends I specifically tell them to get an NVME drive because I'm afraid if I just say M.2 they are going to buy a Sata speed drive or even worse, an M.2 adapter for something like a Laptop Wifi card.
I very much like how Phillip is one of "my people", in that, "It's my house, i wear a dressing gown because its comfy. Not because its the evening or the morning".
Doesn't matter, Random 4K read is shit even on pcie 5.0 drives..only ramdisk and intel optane dc drives are faster (now discontinued)
edit: btw you are getting even worst 4K read than normal, something is keeping your ssd busy; also you probably put the ssd in wrong m.2 slot, that one usually goes through the chipset instead directly to the cpu (you need to check mobo manual block diagram)
Add in the fact the SN850/850x is absolutely cooked when it comes to 4K read latency, you've got a drive that actually performs worse than Gen3 nvme!
Looking at the results from storagereviews, the "better" PCIe gen4 drive have 4x the latency at low iops than the p3..
@@GentoliI stopped recommending the SN850x due to this.....
why are people pandering about faster ssd u done a fucking ram disk there is a cleare sign faster ss wont have batter results people need to learn how to use theyr fucking brain LMAO
1:56 I will never stop getting a stroke from that god-forsaken out of tune organ(???) that someone falls asleep on.
‘twould be a synth
@@orthodynamicstereonails Mine thanks, good sir!
The chance for an ESD is high for him tho.. 😂
Im disappointed you haven't tested optane storage. Now, this needs a part 3...
Didn't he test from RAM last time?
i used m.2 and nvme words interchangably and did wonder if there was a difference. never cared enough to google but i am now a knower thanks to this video
congrats to video number 1234 on this channel :)
I have one new fancy ssd and didn't even realize slow loading was thing for cs2
I always been sexually attracted to 3kliksphillip but not in a homosexual way but more like he just seems like a nice guy that u can put ur head on his chest and just talk about life. He seems so humble and down to earth and i feel he eats his vegetables. I really want 3kliksphillip to get some tattoos so he can have that thug appeal because women and men alike love that. It will bring another element to his content.
What in your right mind went ive never attempted talking to this person who somewhat regulary reads comments. Lets comment this
Yeh, kids these days don't know much about computers.
Gaming workloads were not the driving force behind faster and faster hardware; scientific and high end computing are.
Like how PCIe 7.0 is planned for next year, yet a 4090 just barely saturates a PCIe 3.0 interface lol.
Measurable differences are not noticeable differences.
Add overclocking to the list of things that people don't need today, the need for overclocking died some 10 years ago.
Lol at people going berserk about m.2 and NVMe. Anyone who refers to the drives as m.2 are weird, they're NVMe drives. Computer nerds can be so sad sometimes. Keep at it Phil.
EDIT: actually, if you had a ton of Ram, seeing what a RAMDISK could do would be interesting, since the speeds of DDR4/5 memory is ballistically quick.
You didnt install it on the primary M.2 slot (M.2_1) of your motherboard... so its going through the chipset and not directly to the cpu... so thats why its probably slower
Also why did you put your GPU in the PCIe 3.0x16 slot and not the one closer to the cpu which is PCIe 5.0/4.0x16?
Yeah I still put games on my SATA SSD drive. I feel like the jump from HDD -> SATA SSD was the biggest leap and the rest is like negligible improvements. If anything I believe upgrading your CPU would make loading times faster rather than upgrading an SSD.
I'd like to confrim that the M.2 port that you used is connected directly to the CPU and is not going through the chipset? I'm sure it is given that you know your stuff.
IMO, the most important measure of an SSD's performance is its random read and writes, especially with small files. IOPs and latency are also very important. This may not always improve loading times but will make the system feel snappier overall. This is due to CPU not having to wait as often for the SSD (similar to lag when the CPU is waiting for the GPU's render queue to free up). Intel's now dead Optane SSDs were/are the some of the best in this regard. Sadly they are very expensive :(
Great content as always. Thank you
cats always tryna get the cereal damn
I own an ultra fast NVMe M.2 SSD. It's not a brand you would recognize it's a new Brand that was made to specifically make insane SSDs and such mynSSD is so so fast... But I put it in my Laptops I don't even think the port can handle that speed lol. My PC has the slowest m.2 ssd tho from a brand that doesn't even make them anymore. :(
HDD wins anyway... why? the faster your pc gets, the more confuse your CPU gets... so its better loading slowly and steady than faster and sloppy (─‿‿─)
The RAMdisk from the last video kind of represents the lowest possible loading time. Since loading is moving data from storage to RAM, loading from RAM to RAM would be the theoretical limit.
When are we getting the 3catsphillip channel?
WaifuDiskMark 🤩
Edit: Do you need anyone to do that tiling Phil?
I wonder if that Gen4 drive was throttling its performance because of heat - thus slowing it down dramatically.
its definitely a thing - they make some heat, fur sure (cat puns ftw). as wih most things, the faster it is, the more waste-heat it creates
they absolutely need some sort of heatsink ***at minimum***
1:46 You clearly put this way louder voluntarily xD also would you happen to be the one making it so every video has Sponsorblock saying this is the highlight of the video xD, ifnot, the person doing tihs xD it's quite fun
I just want to point out that the "volvo pls fix" frame appears at 0:46.920s. So close, but in the wrong order!
CPU *can* also play a big part in loading times as the game's data is stored in compressed containers and they have to be decompressed while loading.
Enjoyed the video however my biscuit broke into my coffee. This may seem unrelated and you are correct but i needed to vent
Did you just do the voiceover in an advert for airup, or have they used your voice via AI?
tile ur kitchen
I always love when you correct pedants who say things that are blatantly wrong, or even make fun of pedants who are just being nitpicky about things that don't matter, though I concede it's probably soul-crushing to deal with. Also, this might be your best thumbnail.😁
it's not about raw badwidth, it's about the IOPS that truly define the speed of the SSD
The real answer is: it depends on the workload. Even a drive with high IOPS could be outperformed by a drive with lower latency.
The nvme vs. m.2 sata corrections is pure bikeshedding. Obviously they were NVMEs, you can tell by the fact that they aren't B+M keyed and that they were actually faster than the sata ssds. But the 50 people who learned the difference the hard way feel the need to share their newfound wisdom.
Tech videos attract that kind of viewer. Do a tutorial on something and they'll think it's a display of all your knowledge and will tell you how you should have gone into more depth about something that is completely pointless for anybody looking to learn about it
Why does your benchmarking program have an anime girl
For games that support re-sizable bar a faster SSD (PCIE Gen4/5) can make a difference, especially when loading large assets. For CS2 though, I don't think we're going to need more than the Gen3 any time soon
That seems unlikely. A standard BAR is 256MB aperture. To max out a fast SSD which is about 7GB/s, the BAR is moved less than 30 times a second. This is ridiculous, you can move it several hundred times a second before it starts really hurting you.
@@SianaGearz That's why I said re-sizable BAR, not regular BAR. Normally, without re-sizable BAR the CPU can only process data in 256MB chunks. With re-sizable BAR the CPU can access the entire frame buffer, not just 256MB
@@xXfzmusicXx I'm saying moving the standard BAR 30 times a second to a new base address isn't that much of an overhead. With reBAR you would have zero moves of course, after a short warm up prime it's going to span effective occupied VRAM for the life of the software, but 30 is still effectively very close to zero, when it can be moved a thousand times a second (but will choke you if you move it this often) and can be moved a few hundred before you see a substantial performance drop.
There are very very particular usage patterns which become slow with standard PCI BAR such as scatter writes, which can apply to CPU-generated data under some circumstances but do not match straight up data loading from disk.
Large buffer transfers are particularly benign, less risky than many smaller ones.
is there a video's worth of content about keeping computers cat-proof? mostly hair stuff, though if you've ever dealt with cats that steal mechanical keyboard keys you know how deep it can get
Funny you say that. This week her fur has been getting into my mouse and ruining my aiming about 20 times a day. Nightmare
awww whys the kitty half shaved? operation?
it has some kind of disease (forgot which), he made a video about fluffykins that you might be able to find
My M.2 is permanently screwed in with a screw slightly too small gave me flashbacks of installing it in this video
Why do you have washing machine in kitchen???
Thanks Philippian, I was always confused by the nvme vs m.2 discussion but you cleared it up. The PCIE3 PCIE4 comparison was also very helpful, now I know my upgrade path.
Idk what all those people are on about. Calling it NVMe is much clearer than calling it an M.2. Unless we're talking enterprise (which obviously we're not, it's about loading CS2 for goodness sake), then when you say NVMe, you assume it's in the M.2 form factor. The form factor doesn't even matter, what matters is the actual hardware on the thing, aka NVMe or SATA.
Well, some SSDs are faster if they have more storage because there's more storage chips on them, I can prove for that as I've expirienced that with my old AData SX6000, the 128GB model was way slower than the 512GB model. Another important factor is IOPS (input/output operations per second), fast, large numbers of small file operations make SSDs faster than HDDs.
Can you test it with vhs tapes? (Impossible)
imagine the outcry had you called the NVM.e drive PCI.e instead
Or M.2! 'No it's not the M.2 that makes it faster, it's the NVMe interface!!!!'
@@3kliksphilip Technically the USB drives are SSDs! haha
Preface: I know I've fallen into exactly the same trap by whining about something inconsequential, but thought I might as well add a comment anyway. Love your videos
Imagine running cs2 from vram. Sadly its bit problematic as cs2 requires 33.6 GB space.
I love your cat! He's hilarious and sad. By the way, thanks for teaching us the difference between NVME and M.2 SSDs. I'll remember that. It's great that we don't need to spend so much money for fast game storage these days.
Philip has the best thumbnails hands down. (Nothing to do with the quality of his manicure)
Phillip i think you are missing the point of all of the correcting comments. It was confusing that you called your SATA SSD -> SSD but then you called your NVMe SSD -> NVMe. The analogy to your volvo comparison would having a Volvo Car and a Toyota Car. One of them you call a Car and the other you call a Toyota. It is quite confusing in my opinion...
im not 100% sure you are using the nvme in the correct slot. depending on the slot, the drive will either connect directly to the cpu or the chipset. you should be using slot M2_1 for best speeds. it looked like in the video you used slot m2_2. rereloaded incoming?
ok just watched again. i think you also put the gpu in the wrong slot too. it should be in the top x16 slot.
even if he wasnt, the results would be the same. PCIE4/5 barely, or sometimes doesnt, improve loading speeds in any meaningful way.
plus, thats only with cheaper motherboards which share lanes. most newer mobos can use multiple m2 slots without throttling bandwidth.
@@beboid it’s not shared lanes. The cpu has 20 pcie lanes. 16 for the gpu and 4 for the primary nvme drive. If your aren’t in the primary nvme slot, your nvme drive will run over dmi lanes. The dmi lane are running everything on your chipset. So your nvme is sharing bandwidth with usb, etc.
I stop using NVME, and just go with PCIE SSD vs SATA SSD. People doesn't realised that NVME stands for Non-Volatile Memory Express. Heck, SATA SSD can be called NVM, because it's Non-Volatile Memory, but not using PCIE protocol.
Yes, it's true, M.2 is just the connector type, we have the internet, yet, people doesn't bother doing research, etc.
1:48 Jumpscare music, but in all honesty, its like a prayer
Install windows into the RAM and try that. This way it will be even faster than gen5 ssd :)
Here's another detail nobody cares about: PCI-E 4 and 5 drives have much higher read/write speeds, when it comes to big files, but sometimes WORSE performance when it comes to a bunch of small ones. This metric is referred to as IOPS (input/output operations per second). You can see this during your very fancy waifu side-by-side comparison if you check the bottom two rows. Those show the performance of a bunch of random tiny files.
And those are the kinds of operations games do. They have to look for and read a bunch of different assets like models and textures that will not all be nicely served as a big lump.
You could potentially see a measurable improvement with a big, expensive drive like an Intel Optane 900P, one of those big chonky boys that plugs into the same kind of PCI-E slot as a GPU does, because those were specifically designed to have higher IOPS for datacenter implementation.
Another detail nobody cares about: NVME is just a different implementation of PCI-E, you can literally just get a dumb adapter card to plug an NVME m.2 drive into a PCI-E slot if you don't have any regular m.2 slots free.
M2 screws don't come with drives, they do come with MB. Just as LFF and SFF drives don't come with screws.
And wdym its hard to find them online, literally any shop that sells small metric screws have packs with 100pcs of them.
Judging by you needing a new screw, you might actually used the drive that goes through PCH, rather than directly to the CPU, which does impact the performance. You might as well connect gen5 m2 nvme via some kind of USB adapter over the network, and wonder why the performance is so bad.
Why didn't you test tape drives or DVDs? they are a type of storage too don't discriminate please
Drive performance is greatly impacted by the software controlling it. Benchmark programs squeeze every little bit out while games have to be specifically designed to leverage faster storage. Reality is often disappointing.
Generally speaking, good Gen 3 drives are fast enough to run into software bottlenecks, Gen 4 drives are faster but in limited scenarios, and Gen 5 drives are just kind of silly... Unless you're trying to cram more drives into the same number of lanes, because Gen 5 lanes have double the bandwidth of gen 4 and double AGAIN of Gen 3. This effectively means a Gen 5 system can deliver Gen 3 speeds to 4x the drives of a Gen 3 system, 8 SSDs anyone?
Thumbnail goes hard
RamDisk RamDisk RamDisk... It is possible with your 64 Gigabytes of ram. This is only intended for the hardcore'ste of players. Something that would not be carried out on 3kliksphilip, as he is only a mediocre content creator for the people.
What about putting SSD's or NVME's in RAID ? having cheaper slower drives in raid in comparison to faster drives perhaps.
Keep in mind that CS2 doesn't really need fast read times on a drive, it doesn't utilize streaming very much. In modern games, streaming is becoming a much more regularly practiced technique and that could seriously affect the performance and visuals of a game on a slower drive. In the case of call of duty, having the game on a hard drive can make the game unplayable in certain situations. Not every game is shit though, results vary wildly between games. I'd personally recommend getting a good sized SATA SSD as it's probably the biggest upgrade you can make for your PC (if you're still on an HDD)
Which maps loads the fastest?
Ah, once again, a perfect timing with the caboosing
WDYM it was impossible to find extra m.2 screws? They are m2x2.5mm screws and have been used on laptops and other electronics for decades. Some devices use m2x3mm or m2x5mm to have a stronger hold on the drive (the second number is the screw length, how far it screws into the standoff) but you can get m2x2.5mm at any hobby store.
I wonder how it would look like in rust since loading time is way longer... I have the same NVME you have in the video and every time a wipe starts we get with my friends instantly, and even though all my friends have SSDs I always get in faster, but not faster by a bit but a lot around 30s-1m, I'm not sure if this is because I format my pc often and they don't or my NVME is just that much better 😎
The only reason why faster NVMe SSDs aren't that impactful is just the lack of two words, "Direct Storage".
And yes, it is very awkward that Microsoft didn't do much than just give the devs an option to implement it. And that's it, the same with Auto HDR which they didn't do much to reinforce their ideas to make it a reality. Like they are hoping that someone is going to implement it or something.
Will there be a sequel to this video, rightfully named "CS2 Load Times Revolutions"? (pun intended) Maybe an even faster NVMe that *maybe* surpasses the ones tested before.
one of the possible explanations ive seen online for gen4 nvme drives performing worse than gen3 drives is that often the "gaming" and consumer drives are targeted towards getting the biggest number for the sequential write in crystaldiskmark, and are rushed to market with a much worse *latency* than the, by this point, very high performing & mature gen3 SSDs.