I realize this is an older video and is very helpful. I like to use a long tool for the master. That way, all TLO's are always - negative. This also helps in knowing beforehand if you're going to have any Z+ over travel issues. Keep up the good work.
we use this method as well, but instead of the mastertool being 0 it is the value between the spindlenose and the end of the tool. This way every tool is has a positive value.
I’m not all that familiar with centroid controls but if it’s anything like haas controls you can mic your tools for a D value and get tighter tolerances. For example, you’re 1/4 flat end mill actually mics out to .2485 the software should take the actual tool diameter into consideration and compensate for that. It also can be done in cam but it’s more convenient at the control to mic them at the time of making a part in case of tool wear.
To add to that, in an earlier video I didn’t like that you were using an end mill as a way to find for that reason. At the time I didn’t realize you weren’t using that tool for cutting. As tool wear and or pullout would have cause an issue with accuracy and repeatability.
Hi. The Centroid is very similar to Hass in many ways. Yes, you absolutely can enter the tool diameter into the offset table and use that in your cutter comp should you choose to do so.
Hi Franco, How does one use this method if they have only ER collets for tool holding? Like on a Taig mill or a CNC router. The tools need to be removed sometimes from the collets. Would collars on tools so they are a specific depth in a collet be a good way to get such a holding system to be more repeatable? Thanks!
Great video Franco. Quick question, I understand the concept of setting up a master tool and programing the tool heights of the other tools with respect to the master. My question is how consistent is the R8 taper with respect to Z height. I keep reading that you need to use a TTS system to get repeatable Z heights but I see you are using traditional R8 tooling. Have you done something special to ensure that each time you load a particular tool, the Z height is the same?
Great question. I have found the R8 style tapers to be extremely repeatable. In fact I have a hard time imagining how the tormach system could be any better than an R8 collet truck or an R8 end mill holder in terms of repeatability
@@FrancoCNC Thanks for getting back to me. I plan on converting a PM-728 to CNC and add a Priest Tools power draw bar. This TTS thing is puzzling to me. To me, it appears to add significant stick-out from the spindle nose. I also have hear that tools larger than 3/8" diameter can pull out with the TTS system. If the R8 tapers have repeatable Z height, what is the negative of using them. Am I missing something?
Franco, could you share where you got the enclosure that you put you electronics in on this video? I've been looking for one and that one looks perfect
Do you have a video about why you haven't gone the route of the Tormach TTS system? I'm just starting to get the itch to jump to CNC with my PM 727 mill and I'd like to hear the viewpoint of someone who stayed with R8 instead of TTS.
Hi. IMO, the only advantage of the TTS system is speed. You can change tools very fast. But, I believe using standard R8 tool holders is more rigid and more accurate. You can also have less projection out of the spindle - shorter is better. R8 holders are less expensive, as well. I use a small cordless driver to speed up the process of changing tools.
@@FrancoCNC Thanks for the explanation. I think R8 could work for me if I can find a way to get the taper to release when I unscrew the draw bar. I think the cordless driver is smart, but having to set it down and tap the draw bar makes it a 3 hand ordeal and is the main reason I'd consider other options. I think some draw bar setups are able to push the taper loose automatically so I've got some more research to do. Anyhow, thanks for the videos, you are always extremely informative and helpful. I'd like to see some more videos of you making parts w/ the acorn system if you're taking suggestions!
@@ficklecycler Thanks. I'll be making some parts soon and I'll be sure to get the camera out when I do. The draw bar on the PM25MV is just as you describe - it is captivated and "pushes" the R8 holders out of the spindle taper.
I dont use this method. I only have 5 inches of Z travel i dont have room for it, i have to get all my tools close to the same length. i only use drills in collets to control lenght. So i just use Z home its on optical home switch. it is a PIA.
1:53 I might be misunderstanding, but I think that the master tool method is really dumb on Centroids part. It may be friendly to beginners but generally what you should do is tram your spindle to the table or a height setter, again equipment that a beginner might not have, and then you set your tools based off of that. This method requires you to know what your longest tool is which is constantly changing especially for a beginner. Also I don't see the point when you might as well get the same result as your maximum tool size by just jogging your z-axis all the way up and saying that your master tool is in the spindle. I do understand why it would be good for hobbyists though with what you said about the home switches.
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Yeshua ישוע (Jesus) and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the YHVH יהוה (LORD) shall be saved.” Romans 10:1-13
Thanks Franco - I'm just setting up my Acorn and this is a huge help.
I realize this is an older video and is very helpful. I like to use a long tool for the master. That way, all TLO's are always - negative. This also helps in knowing beforehand if you're going to have any Z+ over travel issues. Keep up the good work.
Thanks a million Franco. That was one of the questions I had in my head!
Hey Franco. Well you got to be happy with that mate. Good to see the centroid is working out for. Cheers Aaron
Thank you so much Frankco!
Sorry, I meant Franco, not Frankco.
we use this method as well, but instead of the mastertool being 0 it is the value between the spindlenose and the end of the tool. This way every tool is has a positive value.
I prefer your method. But, for the video, I wanted to follow what was explained in the Centroid manual.
Great, thanks!
I’m not all that familiar with centroid controls but if it’s anything like haas controls you can mic your tools for a D value and get tighter tolerances. For example, you’re 1/4 flat end mill actually mics out to .2485 the software should take the actual tool diameter into consideration and compensate for that. It also can be done in cam but it’s more convenient at the control to mic them at the time of making a part in case of tool wear.
To add to that, in an earlier video I didn’t like that you were using an end mill as a way to find for that reason. At the time I didn’t realize you weren’t using that tool for cutting. As tool wear and or pullout would have cause an issue with accuracy and repeatability.
Hi. The Centroid is very similar to Hass in many ways. Yes, you absolutely can enter the tool diameter into the offset table and use that in your cutter comp should you choose to do so.
Great videos
What’s the most reliable affordable way to Get a CMC machine for my shop To Mill Pistol slides for red dot Optics
Can this be used with a touch plate or wired tool height setter and a probing routine or does it have to be done manually like this?
Hi Franco,
How does one use this method if they have only ER collets for tool holding? Like on a Taig mill or a CNC router. The tools need to be removed sometimes from the collets. Would collars on tools so they are a specific depth in a collet be a good way to get such a holding system to be more repeatable?
Thanks!
Hello Franco... I know this is an old video. I have been trying to use this process with a few issues. How did you set Parameter 3 on your macine?
Great video Franco. Quick question, I understand the concept of setting up a master tool and programing the tool heights of the other tools with respect to the master. My question is how consistent is the R8 taper with respect to Z height. I keep reading that you need to use a TTS system to get repeatable Z heights but I see you are using traditional R8 tooling. Have you done something special to ensure that each time you load a particular tool, the Z height is the same?
Great question. I have found the R8 style tapers to be extremely repeatable. In fact I have a hard time imagining how the tormach system could be any better than an R8 collet truck or an R8 end mill holder in terms of repeatability
@@FrancoCNC Thanks for getting back to me. I plan on converting a PM-728 to CNC and add a Priest Tools power draw bar. This TTS thing is puzzling to me. To me, it appears to add significant stick-out from the spindle nose. I also have hear that tools larger than 3/8" diameter can pull out with the TTS system. If the R8 tapers have repeatable Z height, what is the negative of using them. Am I missing something?
Franco,
could you share where you got the enclosure that you put you electronics in on this video? I've been looking for one and that one looks perfect
ruclips.net/video/fV6T3PGrIn0/видео.html
if you have a tool length sensor you could do the measurement during the middle of the program. Does acorn support that
Yes it does. They sell a sensor or you could build your own.
How is this possible using R8 collets whos position in the spindle is not likely to be repeatable?
Do you know anyone that sells the pm 25 in the uk?
Do you have a video about why you haven't gone the route of the Tormach TTS system? I'm just starting to get the itch to jump to CNC with my PM 727 mill and I'd like to hear the viewpoint of someone who stayed with R8 instead of TTS.
Hi. IMO, the only advantage of the TTS system is speed. You can change tools very fast. But, I believe using standard R8 tool holders is more rigid and more accurate. You can also have less projection out of the spindle - shorter is better. R8 holders are less expensive, as well. I use a small cordless driver to speed up the process of changing tools.
@@FrancoCNC Thanks for the explanation. I think R8 could work for me if I can find a way to get the taper to release when I unscrew the draw bar. I think the cordless driver is smart, but having to set it down and tap the draw bar makes it a 3 hand ordeal and is the main reason I'd consider other options. I think some draw bar setups are able to push the taper loose automatically so I've got some more research to do. Anyhow, thanks for the videos, you are always extremely informative and helpful. I'd like to see some more videos of you making parts w/ the acorn system if you're taking suggestions!
@@ficklecycler Thanks. I'll be making some parts soon and I'll be sure to get the camera out when I do. The draw bar on the PM25MV is just as you describe - it is captivated and "pushes" the R8 holders out of the spindle taper.
I use whatever tool is finishing the top z plane for my zero tool
Can I use my touch probe as my master tool right ? SO when I touch a part all will be set .
That should work.
@@FrancoCNC Thanks a lot. I'll be using tormach's passive probe wired on my brand new acorn
Franco are you selling CNC conversion kits? if so can you send me price sheet.
Where did you get the tool holders?
eBay. Shars is a good source.
I dont use this method. I only have 5 inches of Z travel i dont have room for it, i have to get all my tools close to the same length. i only use drills in collets to control lenght. So i just use Z home its on optical home switch. it is a PIA.
1:53 I might be misunderstanding, but I think that the master tool method is really dumb on Centroids part. It may be friendly to beginners but generally what you should do is tram your spindle to the table or a height setter, again equipment that a beginner might not have, and then you set your tools based off of that. This method requires you to know what your longest tool is which is constantly changing especially for a beginner. Also I don't see the point when you might as well get the same result as your maximum tool size by just jogging your z-axis all the way up and saying that your master tool is in the spindle.
I do understand why it would be good for hobbyists though with what you said about the home switches.
They like it because it's one method that works on any machine regardless of the configuration.
Hi Franco, any email to contact?
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Yeshua ישוע (Jesus) and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the YHVH יהוה (LORD) shall be saved.” Romans 10:1-13