023 Overview for the Modern, Digital HAM Radio Operator (Hamnet, AREDN, Lora, etc.)
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2022
- Modern HAM radio is digital. In this video, I will show you the architecture of a modern network consisting of state-of-the-art technology used by HAM radio operators. It should act as a teaser and an overview of our possibilities. All network parts are wireless, independent of the internet, and primarily TCP/IP based. A goal should be to make them also independent of the power grid.
The backbone is extremely high-speed compared with older technologies like packet radio. It can include satellite communication as well as smaller devices like DMR radios and even LoRa boards.
Parts of this network can be used stand-alone for your projects. And most of the technologies shown are available and used right now. Just not integrated into one network. This is what we try to build here in Switzerland.
Links:
Hamnet Map: hamnetdb.net/map.cgi
AREDN: www.arednmesh.org/
Pi-Star hotspot: www.pistar.uk/
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Oh, I feel old. I remember how exciting it was running piccolo (MFSK) on HF at about the time that TCP/IP was being developed. It always amazes me how extraordinary that development was and I wonder where we would be if it had not been so elegant.
Interesting what ham radio has become. After years as a professional radio engineer, I never really took to it.
I do enjoy your videos.
Indeed, we got a lot of new possibilities. Of course most HAMs still use HF. I wanted to show to the „younger“ crowd that it is worth looking at these possibilities.
I definitely want to see more videos on the topic of integrating things with AREDN. Thank you for your content!
73 DE S50EV
Thank you for your feedback. 73 de HB9BLA
Andreas, thanks for this great overview that is very interesting!
Glad you liked it!
Brilliant video. the graphics help understand solutions! :)
Thank you!
Great video, regards from Bahia Blanca, the first Aredn net in Argentina, thanks LU4EOU
Cool! I hope you enjoy it.
Not sure how I missed this channel, guy with the Swiss accent.
Content will come over time...
This is great stuff! I heard about packet radio years ago, but when I see things like HamNet and LoRa, it starts itching. Really interesting developments.
Eventhough I'm not a radio amateur, I enjoy your videos (also your other channel). I might even start a project I'm thinking about for years now: a weather station with LoRa connection powered by solar. I live in a 23 story building and I'd like to put a decent self-sustained weather station on the roof. I'm a bit too far away (20th) for Wifi, so I think LoRa is a good idea. And a small solar panel to charge a battery to operate the station on.
My LoRa mailbox notifier works very well. It is placed in a "faraday cage" steel mailbox 50m away from my home. So your wether station should also work.
I can remember trying to get into ham radio in the early to mid '90s. I was more than qualified in theory (PhD in physics, heavily into SWL) and good at hardware but I couldn't remotely pass the CW code requirements due to dispraxia. I suspect the hobby would have been much stronger in the US if they hadn't done that gatekeeping.
I do still love SDR.
The morse test is long gone. So you have no excuses ;-)
I love this Andreas, have problems with my vlog tonight. Lucky for Linux, nearly lost my videos.
The videos are still on RUclips if I lose the originals ;-)
1200 baud packet (shared bandwidth) on 2 meter...
Yeah, I don't miss those 'good old days' :ø)
Now it is much faster. But packet radio was modern before the smartphone…
For a second there you sounded like the backwards voice on twin peaks. Great content though. Thanks
i finally made so good soft. thanks ❤
??
We need more hams thinking this way!
I try to bring us together. Maybe we are more than we think.
Great video. In Australia, transporting third party communications over the ISM/HAM bands is a grey area (so Internet packets over Hamnet/AREDN). Do other countries have this issue?
I do not know if ISM has limitations, but HAM bands definitively have. So the area is probably not grey, but nobody seems to care ;-)
Moin, isn't it wonderful how many possibilities our hobby offers? If you want Morse code: no problem. The friends of FT8 don't have to wait long for an answer. SSB, Repeater, Transmitter hunting and much more. And if you want to be creative yourself, you have the option of using simple setups to operate amateur radio at high frequencies - ideally with digital modes.
Micha
Indeed. This hobby has many facets! And Morse is also a digital mode ;-)
Thanks, 73
You are welcome!
Try Halow combined 802.11ah for long distance and 802.11s for additional distance using mesh. Halow on lower frequencies and higher output power with mimo would be even beter like 64mbps oker 7kms. Give it an HT formfactor with two mimo antenas and internal normal wifi and ethernet port for your small devices to connect to then you could have your tacticool civilian manet. Use zello or briar over large areas with no cellular coverage
I feel teased 100%
Why?
@@HB9BLA Because in the video you are saying something like "teasing Modern HAM radio." So I feel teased :) the video is working.
I used packet on 70 Mhz to get the DX cluster. Fun times before ADSL and now HF unusable here for me. Have to go on the mountain to get rid of the noise.
Same here. We just began a remote station project because of noise…
I'm a cyber security guy and the thing about all this that just rubs me the wrong way is that the FCC won't make a ruling that encryption for security is ok. This would just seem to be a huge vulnerability for CERT teams trying to use AREDN networks for comms and data during an emergency. I just got my ticket a year ago and have a node up on our local AREDN, but without any security I just can't see a good use-case for it. Regular old wifi is better and has almost the same ranges, and every consumer device just talks that language. You couldn't even bridge wifi networks with MitM all ssh/tls/https/etc connects. IMO all this energy and brainpower would be better spent standing up technologies that can actually be used. I understand the hobbiest angle, I make things that has a user base of 1 all the time. But tech such as AREDN could/should really move to the next level. Anyway, my opinion is free and worth every penny.
I can understand why you see the problem as you do, since you're probably used to commercial tech and the goals of keeping personal data from hackers. That does not apply to the amateur service. We are a public service operating on bands granted by the public. Our traffic must be able to be understood by the public. There are ways to control access to our networks, and that is the real challenge. I hope as you continue to gain experience and knowledge in our service you'll understand why encryption is not necessary. 73 KG5RKP
@@RechargeableLithium You miss his point though - that network won't pass any usable data. It's a waste of time building cool toys that can't pass data - a reminder of the old 1200bd digi days, with loads of gear that wouldn't do anything whatsoever after three digi links. You're far better served to listen to the commercial guys and build a useful network, than stick to your broken toys and waste your time and everyone elses' money.
@@SteveWrightNZ are you a licensed operator? If you are, you've clearly not used these links. I use winlink regularly, with and without VARA. I've also set up 9600 baud links used for an internet replacement backbone. Listen to commercial guys? We use the amateur tools to set up communications when the 'commercial guys' are knocked off the air - like in Puerto Rico after hurricanes. And like Florida right now. Learn before you post, youngling. 73
@@RechargeableLithium you have no idea who you're speaking to, and I don't care.
@@SteveWrightNZ You are right - I don't know who you are. That's why I'm talking about facts and not about you. I actually use these tools you say are useless. I participate in hurricane nets and emergency response comms. I KNOW (not 'think' or 'guess') they work. Have YOU actually used any of the modes out host introduced us to? From what you say, I expect not. What class license do you hold?
What we need is a killer app, that is aware of different transport methods and has some use.
We use Emergency Comms as an important application.
I didn't think having over 50 nodes was an issue with aredn with the new updates.... Sure your info is the latest?
I have it from the Germans. But I can imagine that you block a single channel with many stations.
I'm still using packet and own a packet node at VHF (1200) and UHF (9600), running my own python apps.
Cool! We hope that packet gets a younger sister with more modern modulation and protocol...
Very nice video. Thank you.
Does anyone know if any groups/clubs in the Salt Lake City area doing this stuff? I'd sure like to get involved.
You can look at the different maps if some installations are in your area.
I follow our local Hamnet group. Sadly I'm too far from the closest node.
I also live on the other side of the hill. This is why I started with a tunnel. Now we can start to build our own network and maybe one day replace the tunnel with links…
@@HB9BLA I will look into that further. I think I need only one or two hops to connect to the main network. Perhaps I can use my node to entice others if I build it.
@@jmr with AREDN i am now connected to a router far away (tunnel) and colleagues connect now to me. All I needed was this Mikrotik hAP router… Now e start our network using wireless links.
Any suggestions for R-pi, zero w, or pico, zero 2. Can these work for the mesh?
We try to use a Pi4 as a server for dHAMstack.com. I do hardly use the Pi zero and the Pi Pico is not very popular in the Maker community. There most people use the ESP32.
I feel like I am drinking from a fire hose. Already a controversy re encryption appears in the comments to this video. (See also the just-published New Yorker article: The Thorny Problem of Keeping the Internet’s Time | The New Yorker.) There's a lot to digest!
Interesting article about ntp. Thank you for the link! Encryption in these networks is more a political than a technical issue as it could be switched on with minor effort…
@@HB9BLA You should know that Dr. Mills is a ham, W3HCF. I was a student of his in early 1980's and credit him for sending me and my career down the path of the early Internet. My class project for his "special topics in Networking" course was building a TCP/IP implementation for your UNIVAC 1108 mainframe computer. (Good thing I worked at the computer center!)
Dave did some very early experiments with (amateur) packet radio. In the research space at that time, there was quite a bit of work being done on IP-based packet radio and digital voice for tactical military networks. I did quite a bit of work on UNIX NTP, building the first reference design for NTPv1 as an exercise to test the protocol spec to see if it was complete enough to build an interoperable implementation. It was quite a lot of fun, and precision timekeeping can turn into a sickness.. I had some of Mills' "fuzzball" research platforms (LSI-11/23, LSI-11/73 minicomputers) and a WWVB radio clock as a stratum 1 clock on the Internet back in those days.
Thanks for the great video! de WA3YMH
@@lmamakos It is always amazing what kind of viewers I have on my channel (I am very proud of that fact), and I love to read such comments/stories. Thank you!
BTW: I had to deal with timekeeping when I built my QO-100 base station and saw that this can be a rathole or even lead to an obsession ;-)
:-)
:-)
But most of the hams, and new hams and ham youtubers are stuck in the past, and dont use proper terminology and insist on calling an HT a handy talking instead of a hand held transceiver. I was licensed in the 70's and last couple years got relicensed and dont really see much change with the majority - dont get me wrong, I love the digitial stuff, designed some digi gear myself, but sadly I am so disappointed to the majority of the ham stuff out there. most dont even know what a real vco is let alone make their own reciver, and omg they had no idea receiver and transmitter were once separate units.... all their tech talk is make an antenna... and they still say "antenna tuner" is a matching circuit not a tuner! - K6WTG
I do not care about the others. They love what they do and this is ok for me. I do projects I enjoy.
@@HB9BLA I owe you an apology sir. I do most enjoy your videos. I guess I was just ranting on what most hams are these days. I do not see you that way. It was wrong for me to vent on your channel, and for that I am sorry.
@@portblock No problem! I did not read it against me. I have had the same discussions over and over. Therefore, I decided to distinguish between the guys who are on the same way I chose and others that are happy with other stuff. This is, BTW, the reason this channel exists.
Otherwise, it drags me down ;-)
But should you be able to make your own radio in order to operate one? I can't fix my own car if it breaks down, should I not be allowed to drive it? I'm an IT guy, and I can do a lot on a computer, but I know that 85% of the people owning and operating computers can't program or even know how it works. Who cares?
I'd like to experiment with this stuff, but then I see what exams I must take just to be able to buy such a device and connect it to my computer and play with it. Why do I have to know all these things? It's ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. These rules were made in a time when you had to make your own stuff. Now I can order stuff from Ali and start playing with it.
They should change the rules. I understand you have to learn about the regulations and about interference, but I'm not an electronics engineer.
@@PhilippensTube I actualy agree with you, yes I had to make my own radio, and yes I am licensed and the fcc says I can make one now, but if I buy one it has to be fcc aproved, makes no sense, I also think the rules need to change. If i came across snarky, well, I should not have, my issues was really with some you tubers come come across as they know 100% of ham radio and portray them selfs as experts and only talk about oooh a new antenna and never actualy answer real questions. Ok you are in IT, its like watching some some PC channel thats all famous as from your IT point of view you realize they dont know poop - but all in all, I agree with you 100% sorry if my original post sounded otherwise
I've been trying to build up some interest in this sort of thing, especially since I live at the base of the Rocky Mountains. But so far there hasn't been much interest.
As you write, this is a project for a team. As a single person it does not make a lot of sense. I hope you will find a few people in your region
Mesh 5.8GHz will never be as useful or powerful as PtMP 5GHz. Mesh signal levels are vastly inferior, and channel management is much more difficult. Make friends with the local Wireless ISPs - they're radio enthusiasts just like you, ask for their help.
I agree with the „not so powerful“, but I think it is very useful for the last mile where flexibility and speed of deployment is important. For experimenters like HAMs it is also important that they have some freedom and do not have to ask an administrator for changes.
@@HB9BLA A good sized ubiq dish with standard firmware could easily provide 20-50mbit throughput to an AP 25km away, even heavily loaded.. A mesh system might give you 2-5mbit on a heavily loaded network. Hams can trivially use such gear on the general license anyway, there is no need to put callsigns and license conditions on links except for vanity.
@@SteveWrightNZ For me, HAMradio is a hobby. And hobbies should create fun. I see that many people have fun with those AREDN networks, particularly younger people (meshes seem to be "magic", see also Meshtastic or Zigbee). This is why I support such projects. As we all know, we have an issue attracting younger people to our hobby.
I compare it with our other "disciplines like DXing, contesting, fox hunting, SOTA/POTA. All are not very "useful" other than having fun (and maybe learning something).
And, if your point is valid, they will learn a lot, BTW ;-)
@@HB9BLA Agree. Ham Radio is inherently fun, like scuba diving and aviation, and does not need our help - it is only us who feels dissatisfied about it. If we would improve anything it should be the leadership, in my opinion.
Fun fact: RJ45 as we name it is not a correct name; it's actually 8P8C
commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:8P8C_vs_RJ45_female_connectors.png
So RJ45 is a "household" name...
@@HB9BLA as is DB-9, which is actually DE-9