Hi Andreas, you videos have completely changed my life. I started watching your original channel over 3 years ago when i was still a wildlife photographer with an interest in electronics. Today, i run a small start up that makes wildlife tracking devices using Lora for wildlife in Peru, and the foundation for all of devices was built using your tutorials. I honestly wouldn't be where i am today if it wasn't for your videos. I just wanted to say thank you. As you can imagine, with collars, device size and battery life is our primary concern. I cant wait to get a chance to try this APRS tutorial to see if it is a better system over sticking to Lora. Cheers.
Glad to read that you found a new "profession"! I do not think that APRS is different to other LoRa networks because it uses the same methods. Plus: You have to have a callsign to use it.
I had an iGate built within a couple hours of this video going live, but it took a few weeks until I was ready to mount it permanently - which I have now done! Surprisingly, I think mine might be the first in San Francisco...
I just made the connection as I've been watching your (excellent!) embedded systems videos and did not realize you were a ham unless I started playing with LoRa. I just discovered TinyGS today and I cannot wait to play with LoRa ESP32 (my new fav play toy!). Keep up the great work 73, N6SO
Interesting! I found that a lot of the TTN based tracker projects have become unmaintained with the move to the new TTN platform (at least, I've not been able to get any working reliably), this might be a more interesting use for the TBeams I have laying around!
07:08 - WIDE2-1 doesn't mean two hops, it means 1 hop on "WIDE2" (as in very wide area coverage) digipeaters. WIDE1-2 would be 2 hops on fill-in digipeaters.
Thank you for this very informative video. The DARC LoraWan group around Jürgen, dl8ma starts on Wednesday a lecture series about Lora APRS. And I am sure that also from your video many important impulses flow in. Looking at your outstations (12:10) I have a question: What do you use as "holder" for your GP antennas? Is that RG402/U? 73, Martin dg6ms
Oh wow this map looks too fimiliar it's actually the place where I grew up. If I want to try out some things I just have to visit my parents 😆. Currently I'm not a ham yet. After the 2nd Dec I hope this changes 😄. APRS is where I want to start my journey. Edit: Works, but you will need a good Antenna (in rural areas). After upgrading to a diamond NR 770 everything works perfectly. 73 Tobias, DD2ST
Hi Andreas, and thank you for your work and dedication! I have been following you for a few years now and I think that I saw every single episode from your main channel. As fascinating as I find this technology, and even impressive (i.e. reaching a satellite so far away), I am not sure that I understand when/how/why this technology would be used, other than just "for fun" or "because we can". It might be my memory, but I do not remember if you have made any videos about "What is this used for in real life". Could you maybe make, even if a shorter, video, that explains this in more detail? Thank you, keep up the great work!
This is a hobby project and has not a lot of use other than knowing where your colleagues are. Which also could be done using a smartphone. The main purpose is to learn about how to use this technology and to see where it works and where not. Remember: This is the "nerds channel" ;-)
Amateur radio is about the journey, not the destination. You learn electronics skills and tools and you get inspired and then one day you go "hey, why hasn't anyone built X" and you go and build it. That's the dream :)
If everyone in your family had a LoRa device and you lived within range of each other, you would have your own comms system for simple messaging.. that's one example of a real-life use. Great for emergency comms. I can imagine many uses in outdoor activities where people are not within talking range of each other.
Lots of great replies to your question. One other thing to consider is that by someone doing this just "for fun" they may come up with a creative end use for it. If you never knew about this technology and did not try it you may not be able to come up with those creative solutions. As one poster mentioned above they use it for wildlife tracking.
Excellent video, Andreas. I had an unused 433MHz esp32 LoRa board so I flashed the ARPS firmware and now have an igate running. I think it's the first one in Utah, and several surrounding States. LoRa + APRS seems a good match. I'm interested to see where this idea goes.
Hi Andreas, i like the 3D box for the Tbeam. i use these Tbeam for Beehive scales. I would like to have a link for this box. The Tbeam is then better protected on top off the beehive. Your Beehive scale was my guide, learned a lot from your examples. Thanks, greetings from the Netherlands.
I got my igate(s) and tracker(s) going on 70cm and 33cm. They work great! I do have a question/problem. In the igate config I enabled GPS (true) but the igate doesn't use it. It won't display the igate/digi on APRS FI. I'm using TBeams v1.0.
Hi Andreas, just on air with Tracker and iGate ... Going to compare with ft3D on 2m. I like to understand if we can use it for low cost mid range tracking system. My T-Beam seems have poor GPS precision. May be GPS antenna ...., 72 iu2omt
@@HB9BLA it's the VS component of platformio that gave the issue. I use platform IO for all my projects since I watched your video some time ago! Thank you for all you do. 73 de G7GQA
@@HB9BLA To be fair though, the LoS requirement is more of an operating frequency attribute then a modulation one. You could use LoRA techniques down on HF and not have LoS issues. I'm not meaning to be picky, I just think it's important to differentiate the two (lots of people don't understand what things can affect or attenuate different types of radio signal)
Would it be possible to run the lora protocol on 2 meters directly? Has anyone tried this? I guess Lora is proprietary, so that might be a problem, also any form of encryption is verboten in amateur radio so that's another. Might be interesting...
is there a way to display the packets received by the iGate locally without internet? thinking of using this remotely out of data/cellular service and would like a way to see the data locally. Further, is there a way to interface the tracker with an application like APRSDroid to see information as well?
APRSdroid is connected to the APRS backend. So you need internet on the iGate. I would go with other projects for a point to point connections. Like FDRS. Or you use RadioLib to program your own.
any chance of putting internet through the lora? set it up as a wifi hotspot .. or what about wire it into a smartphone so the smartphone itself has a wired network connection to the lora...
@@HB9BLA i will get a tracker next month but if i set tx power to 10mw, its license free. I will get my license with darc i think but i have to better in german👌
on regular APRS I send my weather station info . Is there any option for this on LoRa - or is that just too much data ? I may have to make one of these digipeater igate stations sometime to help the cause .
Should be possible. The iGate just feeds APRS IS servers with the received data, so if tx string from your weather station stays the same I see no reason why it shouldn't work.
I don't know if you've heard about Harald Naumann. He claims that lorawan,sigfox and nbiot are dead and that MIOTY should be used. What's your view on this opinion?
Another commercial system locked in to his business model, sorry i will skip as open standards make many vendors build and develop on robust and long term support. Who knows how long his company will last!!!
sir help me to find how to connect lora ai ra-02 with raspberry pi pico ....... I can't find any video's or any documents about that ... please any one help me
Why hasn't anyone made a dual mode APRS (AX25 and LoRA) digipeater on 2 metres? In the UK the 70cm frequency is right in the middle of the licence-free ISM band, and most people who are raving about LoRA/Meshtastic are using the non Amateur allocation around 800 MHz, to be honest, Meshtastic is just a craze, as soon as people realise that it is only SMS they will rapidly get bored with it, it is reinventing the wheel a bit because you can doing everything already using standard APRS. So why not a dual-band AX25 and LoRA digipeater iGate on 144MHz?
I would just place two different igates at the same place. Then, you can use available technology. 868MHz is used because LoRaWAN is also on this frequency in Europe, BTW.
@@HB9BLA sorry my Questsion was not precize. Software to send/receive Lora signals with e.g. an Raspberry Pi/Linux/mac/win and an Ft-8x7. How far would you get with 20 watts Lora TX?
@@unoxunox4086 The range will mainly depend on line of sight. Maybe the 20 watts help a little with reflected signals. LoRa signals cannot be transmitted by ordinary HAM equipment. They need a special module as shown in the video.
Ok, thank you for the Information. Make sens, lora uses a different modulation as FM/AM/cw. I remember you said this with the hint to AFSK. I will enjoy the viedeo again, to learn more. Sorry for this unnecessary question. Have a nice day with hopefully chocolate, cheese soldering and Rivella.
@@HB9BLA L1 GPS uses over 1Mhz bandwidth to transmit data at around 50hz baud rate using very little power and a small antenna, hidden in your phone. You can by a receiver on ebay for about $5 because the manufacturer does not have to license it from another company.
Excellent video, Andreas. I had an unused 433MHz esp32 LoRa board so I flashed the ARPS firmware and now have an igate running. I think it's the first one in Utah, and several surrounding States. LoRa + APRS seems a good match. I'm interested to see where this idea goes.
Hi Andreas, you videos have completely changed my life. I started watching your original channel over 3 years ago when i was still a wildlife photographer with an interest in electronics. Today, i run a small start up that makes wildlife tracking devices using Lora for wildlife in Peru, and the foundation for all of devices was built using your tutorials. I honestly wouldn't be where i am today if it wasn't for your videos. I just wanted to say thank you. As you can imagine, with collars, device size and battery life is our primary concern. I cant wait to get a chance to try this APRS tutorial to see if it is a better system over sticking to Lora. Cheers.
Glad to read that you found a new "profession"! I do not think that APRS is different to other LoRa networks because it uses the same methods. Plus: You have to have a callsign to use it.
I had an iGate built within a couple hours of this video going live, but it took a few weeks until I was ready to mount it permanently - which I have now done! Surprisingly, I think mine might be the first in San Francisco...
Cool! This is well possible. Most of them are currently deployed in Europe...
Even when you don't say it, I still hear it in my head! BYYY-EEE :)
:-))
I just made the connection as I've been watching your (excellent!) embedded systems videos and did not realize you were a ham unless I started playing with LoRa. I just discovered TinyGS today and I cannot wait to play with LoRa ESP32 (my new fav play toy!). Keep up the great work
73, N6SO
I am sure you will like the combination of ESP32s and LoRa ;-) 73
Great video. I have been wanting to get into LoRa for a while and I have been playing APRS for a while. Nice to see these come together.
And it is a good fit if you ask me...
1:23 70cm APRS works here in Berlin/Germany quite well
Good to know. Thanks!
Excellent video. I'm going to have to come back to this one several times after I start my LORA projects. :-)
Have fun!
Interesting! I found that a lot of the TTN based tracker projects have become unmaintained with the move to the new TTN platform (at least, I've not been able to get any working reliably), this might be a more interesting use for the TBeams I have laying around!
My T-Beam LoRa Tracker works in V3 of TTN (and it is cross-posted to aprs.fi). So everybody should be able to update it if needed.
I wish this could interoperate with meshtastic... That would be so cool.
A gateway would be possible, I think.
Well explained, Andreas. Thanks a lot. 73
You are welcome!
Nice overview video, God bless.
Very interesting and impressive !
Indeed a good cross fertilization…
07:08 - WIDE2-1 doesn't mean two hops, it means 1 hop on "WIDE2" (as in very wide area coverage) digipeaters. WIDE1-2 would be 2 hops on fill-in digipeaters.
Thank you for clarification!
Thank you for this very informative video. The DARC LoraWan group around Jürgen, dl8ma starts on Wednesday a lecture series about Lora APRS. And I am sure that also from your video many important impulses flow in. Looking at your outstations (12:10) I have a question: What do you use as "holder" for your GP antennas? Is that RG402/U? 73, Martin dg6ms
Yes, I use prefabricated RG-402. I added a link to the video description. And I know the DARC Hamgroup, I participate sometimes...
Thank you very much for the vide! I will add a Link into my Github repositories! 👍 73 Peter, OE5BPA
Thank you for your help! The video got a lot of interest and there are already US implementations…
Let’s see where this will go…
Oh wow this map looks too fimiliar it's actually the place where I grew up. If I want to try out some things I just have to visit my parents 😆.
Currently I'm not a ham yet. After the 2nd Dec I hope this changes 😄. APRS is where I want to start my journey.
Edit: Works, but you will need a good Antenna (in rural areas). After upgrading to a diamond NR 770 everything works perfectly. 73 Tobias, DD2ST
Cool. Welcome in the HAM community!
Excellent video, Mr. Spiers! It excited me to get back to working with APRS.
73 PU5GEO
Have fun! 73 de HB9BLA
Hi Andreas, and thank you for your work and dedication! I have been following you for a few years now and I think that I saw every single episode from your main channel. As fascinating as I find this technology, and even impressive (i.e. reaching a satellite so far away), I am not sure that I understand when/how/why this technology would be used, other than just "for fun" or "because we can". It might be my memory, but I do not remember if you have made any videos about "What is this used for in real life". Could you maybe make, even if a shorter, video, that explains this in more detail? Thank you, keep up the great work!
This is a hobby project and has not a lot of use other than knowing where your colleagues are. Which also could be done using a smartphone. The main purpose is to learn about how to use this technology and to see where it works and where not. Remember: This is the "nerds channel" ;-)
Amateur radio is about the journey, not the destination. You learn electronics skills and tools and you get inspired and then one day you go "hey, why hasn't anyone built X" and you go and build it. That's the dream :)
If everyone in your family had a LoRa device and you lived within range of each other, you would have your own comms system for simple messaging.. that's one example of a real-life use. Great for emergency comms. I can imagine many uses in outdoor activities where people are not within talking range of each other.
Lots of great replies to your question. One other thing to consider is that by someone doing this just "for fun" they may come up with a creative end use for it. If you never knew about this technology and did not try it you may not be able to come up with those creative solutions. As one poster mentioned above they use it for wildlife tracking.
Excellent video, Andreas. I had an unused 433MHz esp32 LoRa board so I flashed the ARPS firmware and now have an igate running. I think it's the first one in Utah, and several surrounding States. LoRa + APRS seems a good match. I'm interested to see where this idea goes.
Indeed, it has good properties like low power and long range. And it is cheap. Congratulations for one of the first LoRa iGate in the US
Same here Kris. I have one in Tennessee!
@@RichardMontgomery67 Great! The video is quite successful. So I assume we will see some more in the States...
Have you compared the range of 433 vs 868/915 modules, all else being equal (apart from the antennas, of course)?
No, I did not test it. They should be similar in most cases.
Hi Andreas, i like the 3D box for the Tbeam. i use these Tbeam for Beehive scales. I would like to have a link for this box. The Tbeam is then better protected on top off the beehive. Your Beehive scale was my guide, learned a lot from your examples. Thanks, greetings from the Netherlands.
I added the link to the description (here most links will be deleted). 73
- In general, what is the current consumption of the t-beam in deep sleep ?
- Does the t-beam go into deep sleep in this setup in particular ?
AFAIK it does not go to deepsleep. The OLED is always on.
which is the frequency for lora aprs in europe? i am in greece
I got my igate(s) and tracker(s) going on 70cm and 33cm. They work great! I do have a question/problem. In the igate config I enabled GPS (true) but the igate doesn't use it. It won't display the igate/digi on APRS FI. I'm using TBeams v1.0.
I never tried that. Maybe you open an issue on GitHub?
Just order some to setup trackers and an iGate. Will be fun to play with de VK2DU
Now we cover for sure the whole world ;-) Thank you!
I'd like to see AGPS using ESPnow, for tracking of the robotic mower. So not to "pollute" the LoRa network with frequent updates.
I made a video about the "Farm Relay System" that uses ESPnow...
@@HB9BLA What I meant was DGPS, centimeter accuracy for the robotic mower.
Hi Andreas, just on air with Tracker and iGate ...
Going to compare with ft3D on 2m. I like to understand if we can use it for low cost mid range tracking system.
My T-Beam seems have poor GPS precision. May be GPS antenna ...., 72 iu2omt
The GPS antenna indeed is not very big...
Great Video Andreas, thanks!... Question, any special configuration when I want to use the board as a Digipeater instead an iGate?
You have to enable the digipeater in the config file (where you entered the SSID etc.)
I guess I need to dig out my half completed LoRa gateway.
Here my TTN gateway works now for many years and gets messages from my sensors and others I do not know who they are.
Ordered at Ali. Waiting for both unit to start in the Wynetal. 73 de HB9DOD Tom
Cool! I come from time-to-time to Reinach to the HB9EAS "Hock" (the guys who built the iGates in the Basel region)
@@HB9BLA Works both, although had to reset the gps by special programm. Its Reinach AG hi
Works well. Trouble with visual studio though, could not update the config file. Downgraded to 1.7.0, and works OK
Very good! Most people use PlatformIO for this project...
@@HB9BLA it's the VS component of platformio that gave the issue. I use platform IO for all my projects since I watched your video some time ago! Thank you for all you do. 73 de G7GQA
Also, I seem to be able to achieve a range of about 17 km, with modest antennas. I plan another igate at my home QTH
@@AndyDoz My world record 5 years ago on 868MHz was 201km. So you still have some "headroom"
I have to revisit my failed Lora Project (only exchanged messages at 6-9 Inches apart! Not miles!)
Definitively. But keep an eye on "line of sight" ;-)
@@HB9BLA To be fair though, the LoS requirement is more of an operating frequency attribute then a modulation one. You could use LoRA techniques down on HF and not have LoS issues. I'm not meaning to be picky, I just think it's important to differentiate the two (lots of people don't understand what things can affect or attenuate different types of radio signal)
Great video. Thanks Andreas! 73 de M1GEO.
You are welcome! 73 de HB9BLA
For a moment I though that this was the Guy with the Swiss Accent ! XD
:-))
Where can I get an off the shelf one or get someone to put one together for me?
Maybe you have a fellow ham who can help you out? That is how we do it here.
Would it be possible to run the lora protocol on 2 meters directly? Has anyone tried this? I guess Lora is proprietary, so that might be a problem, also any form of encryption is verboten in amateur radio so that's another. Might be interesting...
I do not know if anybody tried. The LoRa chips start at 137MHz. So you only would have to adapt the matching/filter to the antenna.
Thanks!! - question?, what tech are vessels and airplanes using to track?
I assume they use satellites.
is there a way to display the packets received by the iGate locally without internet? thinking of using this remotely out of data/cellular service and would like a way to see the data locally. Further, is there a way to interface the tracker with an application like APRSDroid to see information as well?
APRSdroid is connected to the APRS backend. So you need internet on the iGate.
I would go with other projects for a point to point connections. Like FDRS. Or you use RadioLib to program your own.
@@HB9BLA do you have a link to FDRS?
@@jphillips260 No links allowed here. Just google "timmbogner"
Hi Andreas, could you also link the 3d printed mount for the iGate?
I added a link to the video description
any chance of putting internet through the lora? set it up as a wifi hotspot .. or what about wire it into a smartphone so the smartphone itself has a wired network connection to the lora...
LoRa is a very slow protocol
i have a question, can i use lora aprs without a license? and are there igates nearby nordhausen - thuringen?
IGates are receive only. No problem without license. Trackers are transmitters. Here you need one. But it is not too complicated to get one.
@@HB9BLA i will get a tracker next month but if i set tx power to 10mw, its license free. I will get my license with darc i think but i have to better in german👌
Very interesting
:-)
on regular APRS I send my weather station info . Is there any option for this on LoRa - or is that just too much data ? I may have to make one of these digipeater igate stations sometime to help the cause .
I am not sure if it is part of their future plan. I think it should be possible to add weather data if they are not sent too often.
Should be possible. The iGate just feeds APRS IS servers with the received data, so if tx string from your weather station stays the same I see no reason why it shouldn't work.
@@joostluyten_ON2OT Just keep airtime in mind (on SF12)
frequency matching, 4:04 !!
I do not understand :-(
So this LORA Tracker transmits speading mode instead of AX.25 1200bps?
Yes.
I don't know if you've heard about Harald Naumann. He claims that lorawan,sigfox and nbiot are dead and that MIOTY should be used. What's your view on this opinion?
Another commercial system locked in to his business model, sorry i will skip as open standards make many vendors build and develop on robust and long term support. Who knows how long his company will last!!!
Maybe you google both names. Then you get an indication if he is right. I got a 10:1 ratio…
Is there a way to extend the signal with a powered antenna
Antennas always matter. For my purpose it was not needed.
sir help me to find how to connect lora ai ra-02 with raspberry pi pico ....... I can't find any video's or any documents about that ... please any one help me
just Google "ra-02 lora arduino"
Rather see a cheap long range low power system. Is there an open source competitor?
What is cheap in your world?
Why hasn't anyone made a dual mode APRS (AX25 and LoRA) digipeater on 2 metres? In the UK the 70cm frequency is right in the middle of the licence-free ISM band, and most people who are raving about LoRA/Meshtastic are using the non Amateur allocation around 800 MHz, to be honest, Meshtastic is just a craze, as soon as people realise that it is only SMS they will rapidly get bored with it, it is reinventing the wheel a bit because you can doing everything already using standard APRS. So why not a dual-band AX25 and LoRA digipeater iGate on 144MHz?
I would just place two different igates at the same place. Then, you can use available technology. 868MHz is used because LoRaWAN is also on this frequency in Europe, BTW.
is software available, to TRX Lora signals out of an usual Ham radio?
Yes. There are a lot of such videos on my main channel.
@@HB9BLA sorry my Questsion was not precize. Software to send/receive Lora signals with e.g. an Raspberry Pi/Linux/mac/win and an Ft-8x7.
How far would you get with 20 watts Lora TX?
@@unoxunox4086 The range will mainly depend on line of sight. Maybe the 20 watts help a little with reflected signals.
LoRa signals cannot be transmitted by ordinary HAM equipment. They need a special module as shown in the video.
Ok, thank you for the Information. Make sens, lora uses a different modulation as FM/AM/cw. I remember you said this with the hint to AFSK. I will enjoy the viedeo again, to learn more. Sorry for this unnecessary question. Have a nice day with hopefully chocolate, cheese soldering and Rivella.
@@unoxunox4086 No problem!
Hi Andreas, this project really sounds fascinating, but I do not have a call sign. Do I need one to use Lora APRS, or can I participate without one?
as it requires a HAM license, you'd need one (the callsign should come with the license)
The test are not too complicated if you are interested in electronics, I think. And the hobby has many more facets...
No distortion in the signal...just hi Q video content 😉
Thank you!
GPS is a high bandwidth low power and low bit rate system. Has anyone tried to move its technology to other data systems? Would be cheaper.
I thought that GPS comes from satellites?
@@HB9BLA L1 GPS uses over 1Mhz bandwidth to transmit data at around 50hz baud rate using very little power and a small antenna, hidden in your phone. You can by a receiver on ebay for about $5 because the manufacturer does not have to license it from another company.
I was referring to the modulation/ transmission method not the application or use
73 N5ODB
73 de HB9BLA
Excellent video, Andreas. I had an unused 433MHz esp32 LoRa board so I flashed the ARPS firmware and now have an igate running. I think it's the first one in Utah, and several surrounding States. LoRa + APRS seems a good match. I'm interested to see where this idea goes.
Reading the comments there are a few more in the States. Very good!