I am 85 and will be baptized into SDA in a couple weeks. It must be wonderful have spent your life, all of your lives as Adventists and lived for Jesus.
That is beautiful, Jean! 🎉Congratulations on your baptism and decision for Jesus! We feel incredibly grateful to have grown up in the church and met Jesus at a young age. Thanks for listening 💛
Congratulations Jean. It is not by our works that we are saved and not how long we've been Adventists. I've been Adventist all my life too..but it is our acceptance of Christ and being a living sacrifice to God daily. Remember the parable Jesus told of the workers. Those who worked for 12 hours, those who worked 9 hours, those who worked even for an hour, they all got the same wage. The thief on the cross didn't have time to be a Christian, but Christ saved him when he gave his heart to Jesus. Praise God, by His Grace, we have eternal life 🙏🏽❤️
too bad you are not baptized into Christ and Christ alone. 85 years and deceived by this organization a cult. Ask Holy Spirit to open your eyes. and heart
What millions members of the General Conference Seventh Day Adventist don't know is that, they thoughts that this current GC SDA church is in it true condition when it was established in 1863. The truth is that this current General Conference SDA church is in gross apostasy with its leadership. That is why the pastors and the members are using the News King James Version bible NKJV: the book of Satan, and the new logo and the new hymnbook that belonged to Satan. The GC SDA church had cross the gulf and grasp the hands of popes, the right hand of Satan. More can be add... Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. 1SM 204.2, Selected Messages Boook 1.
@@alray1261 Revelation 22:14-15 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
I really enjoy listening to the honesty reflected in the sharing of thoughts at the end of the interview with Elder Wilson. I grew up as an Adventist in Montego Bay, Jamaica. I wanted to a pastor but ended up as a police officer and later a US Marine. I am retired now; in and out of the church. I love the program. I also believe that your culture impacts how you relate to or understand the Scripture. I hasten to add that culture is not a determinant of salvation. I believe the mission of the Holy Spirit is to prepare us for salvation. In my mind, The HS will imbue us with the culture of heaven. Great podcast.
Really value your thoughts, Owen! Thank you for sharing your story. Love your thoughts about culture not being where our salvation comes from. So glad you enjoyed the episode, and thanks for listening!💛
Came across your video by accident. I'm not Adventist and, to be honest, there is much about your denomination that I simply have no knowledge of. It's interesting, though, that I see in your church the same struggles that are going on in just about every denomination. One of you expressed concern that you are becoming more polarized over the last 10 or 15 years. Isn't that true for the church in general? I'm not your age. I'm a Boomer. And to be frank, I have been quite dismayed at the way our current culture is progressing. Mr. Wilson seemed to have a clearer belief in Truth than the four of you. I think the confusion that our current generation is experiencing on so many levels is the result of either not clearly being taught the truth of the Christian faith, or simply abandoning it. I tend to think it is both/and. I think you're right when you say that culture will influence our interpretation of scripture. However, I believe it is irresponsible for us to swim in the sea of indecision when it comes to cultural issues. What I heard Mr.. Wilson saying is that scripture, being divinely inspired and authoritative, should be our guide when addressing these issues. I hear too many people begging for dialogue when the scriptures and the tradition of the church over the last two thousand years are pretty clear about certain things. I know you don't want to alienate people in your churches, but let's face it, that's a reality of the world we live in. We can't be all things to all people. There will be those who get their feelings hurt. We will either live in accordance with the truth of scripture, or we will not. I think many of us today across all generational lines need to learn this lesson. If we do not the church will continue down the path of growing irrelevance in relation to a world that desperately needs clear direction. Thanks guys, I enjoyed the video.
Really appreciate your perspective on the discussion. Its more important to constantly seek the Holy Spirit as He guides us to understand and live out the Truth of Gods word in our lives. As a Gen Xer, I have seen a shift in the Christian Community from living and teaching Biblical truths, toward a pivot to fit the current culture. That's truly where the confusion has come from. Growing up as a Christian Adventist, there was very little confusion as to who we are and what we believe. Now it seems with the world connecting more through the means of social media, there is growing shift to fit more popular narratives. But weren't we warned by Jesus Himself that broad is the way that leads to destruction and many will be that find it? And weren't we also reminded to hold fast to what we have been taught because there will be seducing spirits in the last days? Let us hold fast to the Word of God and the Truth contained within. Knowing that Truth does not pivot to fit the culture. Pastor Ted was on point to remind us that if we are share the truth in earnestness as led by The Holy Spirit, He brings about the spirit of unity and growth. The evidence of this is shown in Pastor Teds example, comparing the growth in Africa and North America. In North America, we do a lot of debating and a lot of pivoting to the culture. Hence, the work is hindered, division is revealed and growth is stagnant. In contrast, the church in Africa continues to explode because their focus is evangelism on the grass roots level. The field is ripe in North America, the harvest is ready, but the laborers are few. Lets refocus on the mission and put away the debate. Thanks for the video brothers.
Hello and MAY JESUS BLESS YOU.➡️➡️Please if you have any bible questions please tell me I can send you my WhatsApp and I can show prophecy of Daniel and Revelation, the CROSS and the 10 commandments/ grace , Dress/ fashion in the church, Evangelism/ sharing the word etc
I loved what Elder Wilson said to you guys about leading your wife and children as the priest. Good for him. When I was an Adventist there was little to no talk about a father being the priest of the family. That just wasn't a thing. So it's fabulous to hear that this concept has swept into Adventism. I felt like there was some real uncomfortableness as you spoke to him. I think Elder Wilson is so old school that he simply cannot understand your view of a progressive Adventism. It's probably unthinkable in his mind.
I gotta say, after listenting to the entire episode I truly enjoyed it. I'm curious though, as to what it is that you guys believe that is fueling the entire conversation. Like, what is your stance on the truth? because it comes up so much but it is nos directly talked about. Being an SDA my entire life, I've definitely questioned A LOT growing up so I can't help but feel identified with the discussion and the need to remain open. I don't know if anyone needs to hear this, but in my experience, after questioning and somewhat practicing a more open view on religion and faith and Bible truth, in the recent years the spirit has led me right back to the "traditional" view on the truth that I resisted before. When I say the Spirit led me back, it's like Pastor Wilson says, if you're seeking him with a humble heart he will lead you to it and where there was once confusion, skepticism, lack of understanding, now there is clarity.
Man!! So good. A friend led me to this podcast. Thank you guys for what you are doing. We need more of this! Theres so much I want to say, but Ill say this, for me, the best thing and "worst" thing from our church is our differences in culture. I say the best thing, cause how awesome it is that we have the same message all over the world. And the worst thing, because we are so divided by it as well. (Im all for the different cultures. I was born in Central America, and have influence from the hispanics, caribbean and USA, etc). Also its so interesting that conservatives and liberals all agree that they have heard from the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit speaks different to each people, or we are not even listening right? I believe we will know this until we reach Heaven (or maybe in the end end end times). I have seen so many injustices in the SDA church, my dad retired from working in the church, my mom and I are working for the church, and here we are still loving our church, cause we believe in the message, and we believe that our message needs to reach others. Keep it up, new subscriber here, I will definitely try to catch up on the other episodes as well. God bless you. Greetings from Miami.
If he knew his bible he would apologise for leading the sheep astray with his unbiblical investigative judgement reinforced by the false prophet and plagiarist Ellen white
@@tronley77Our concept of plagiarism did not exist in the ancient world. However it was in Ellen White’s day which is why William Conybeare & John Howson planned on filing a lawsuit against her for plagiarizing their book, “Life and Epistles of Saint Paul” with her copycat, “Sketches From the Life of Paul”. The SDA Church withdrew the book from print until after the copyright expired to avoid any legal action. This was admitted by church leaders in the files on the 1919 Bible Conference. The Bible writers did not make a profit from other’s words and ideas and pass off as their own directly from God, nor did they have others go out and sell their books door-to-door like EGW did.
(37:00) When I left Adventism, I went and spoke to every mainstream denomination's pastor I could. I spoke with dozens from Pentecostals to Orthodox. ALL of them said EXACTLY what President Wilson said here. All of them said if I just prayed with the Holy Spirit and studied my Bible that I would become ______ (whatever denomination that pastor was). Because the scriptures CLEARLY teach what they taught. After about ten, I began to ask the pastors why other denominational pastors say the exact same thing. And they then went into the whole talk about "unity on essentials, charity on non-essentials." So, not an answer. None of them. Not one single pastor could answer the question of WHY does the Holy Spirit lead sincere, dedicated, seeking Christians to differing interpretations of scripture. Is God really truly leading people to different truths? Can some people divorce and remarry because they interpret Jesus words in a more liberal way than others? Is homosexuality wrong or is it just a matter of how one sincerely interprets the scriptures? Infant/adult baptism was at one time something Christians killed each other over. Does God want people to be THAT dependent upon their own interpretation of scripture that we will separate from each other, even with hostility, because we read its truths differently? How is it possible for Pastor Wilson to suggest that ALL other Christians who lived for 1800 years after Christ's death just never interpreted the Bible correctly until the Adventist Founding Fathers/Mother did? Were they the ONLY ones who were sincere enough and who read scriptures enough to get it, finally? Not picking on Adventists, because the assumption of all these other denominational pastors is the same. Everyone else but "us" is not REALLY sincere or does not REALLY have the Holy Spirit. In the past the SDA church has at least had Ellen's angel to as authoritative and not sola scriptura. Now they have joined the rank and file of those promoting the idea that everyone will come to THEIR truth if they just sincerely, really utterly sincerely pray and study.
My heart goes out to you Arthur and Teresa. I've had a very similar search and very similar discussions with many pastors. There is an answer to your question. There are 40,000 plus Christian denominations... why? Prayerfully ask you to look at Dr Tim Jennings come and reason. He actually did another broadcast on this channel just a few days ago. God bless you as you both search for God his true character and where he is leading you both. In his love, David
the emphasis of the Sabbath day in the name "Seventh-Day Adventist" is not merely an emphasis on the keeping of the fourth commandment but the keeping of the whole 10 commandments as well. when we say that we should keep the seventh day holy, we actually mean that we should keep the whole 10 commandments as written in the Bible through love.
Great uplifting from the GC president. Yes the key for unity is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit unites all Adventists across the world and yes I believe one will feel at home walking into any Adventist church anywhere in the world by the same Spirit we share. If anything is different, that is due to the lack of the Holy Spirit. Also I agree with the comment of praise and worship. Praising God in spirit and in truth is not the same as the type of music at the rock bands. Remember, God is calling His people to come out of Babylon. That means we are a peculiar people different to the world and the practices of the world. We cannot compromise and be comforted with the world norm only to feel belong. I'm sorry but you have to be a soldier of Christ and leave this world behind. I am from Papua New Guinea and I have no trouble at all agreeing to both Pastor Doug Batchelor and Elder Wilson's view as Adventists. May the Holy Spirit continue to lead His people and may Christ be the centre always 🙏🏽 ❤️
I’m watching this out of sequence. This is my second episode. This is fascinating and interesting and eye opening. I’m subscribing to this and will ‘Box Set’ this now. Watching from England in the United Kingdom. Thank you for this. I appreciate you all. God bless you.
I cherish the spirit of Adventists. I am an African Adventist Baha’i. The Adventist Christianity in me is that Ellen White’s health counsels are part of my daily living. The Baha’i in me constitutes of my participation in building Christ’s Kingdom on earth. I am caught up in speeding up the process of Christ’s coming so that “all eyes” can see Him in clouds.
In your video description the question is posed: "Is there room at the table of Adventism to disagree while pursuing the same mission?" Jesus taught that there would be "one fold and one Shepherd". The apostle wrote to the church at Corinth: "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment". I believe the answer to your question is addressed in these and other passages of scripture.
The little flock will go astray because the parents itself are not well rooted on the truth and no opening and real reading and studying of the bible. Go and read what the Waldenses were like at the time of the reformers. It is amazing how they were schooled on the bible and were so firm in their foundation that even when they went to university nothing could change their mind. They were leaders and not followers. Way to go elder Wilson! The word of God is our guide and the Spirit of prophecy is for our days. If every member of the church read Testimonies for the Church with an open heart to really learn and practice the Seventh Day Adventist Church would come into unity. God bless you elder Wilson as you lead God’s people.🙏🏼
As a 7th Day Adventist I believe that the gospel should be easy to understand very straightforward and to the point there is only one way to Jesus other roads. Are all going toward satan's realm and if we do not understand it. Then we can pray about it for wisdom, guidance and direction. But we also have to realize God is so massive big, he is so complex, just the thought of trying to comprehend god's power is unimaginable so we just surrender to his will and let him be in charge take over because he. Knows what's right and he knows what's best for humanity so trust in Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior.
As Christians we should never go by our 5 senses and are emotions and feelings because they can affect the way you think and act. We always should put our feelings aside because it's not about our feelings. It's not about us it's about the Lord and what he asks us to do. Sometimes we got to go into an area that we are not comfortable with, but that is the thing we'd have to stick to the word and the word only.
It is not so that Elder Wilson said that what he said was the truth. He said the Bible has the truth and the Holy Spirit will guide us all into truth. Don’t put your feelings into what he said. It is not fair.
In her letter to her son, W. C. White on December 4, 1905, Ellen White warned about the apostasy that would enter the church and implored the members to “hold fast to the first principles of our denominated faith.” “One thing it is certain is soon to be realized-the great apostasy, which is developing and increasing and waxing stronger and will continue to do so until the Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout. WE ARE TO HOLD FAST TO THE FIRST PRINCIPLES OF OUR DENOMINATED FAITH and go forward from strength to increased faith. Ever we are to keep the faith that HAS BEEN SUBSTANTIATED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD from the earlier events of our experience UNTIL THE PRESENT TIME. We need now larger breadth and deeper, more earnest, unwavering faith in the leadings of the Holy Spirit. If we needed the manifest proof of the Holy Spirit’s power to confirm truth in the beginning, after the passing of the time, we need today all the evidence in the confirmation of the truth, when souls are departing from the faith and giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. There must not be any languishing of soul now. If ever there was a period of time when we needed the Holy Spirit’s power in our discourses, in our prayers, in every action proposed, it is now. We are not to stop at the first experience, but while we bear the SAME MESSAGE to the people, this message is to be strengthened and enlarged. We are to see and realize the importance of the message made certain by its divine origin. We are to follow on to know the Lord, that we may know that His going forth is prepared as the morning. Our souls need the quickening from the Source of all power. We may be strengthened and confirmed in the past experience that holds us to the essential points of truth which have made us what we are-Seventh-day Adventists. {Lt326-1905.2} Principles of our faith needs to be preserved But although the long line of events extends through so many centuries, and new and important truths are from time to time developed, that which was truth in the beginning is the truth still. THE INCREASED LIGHT OF THE PRESENT DAY DOES NOT CONTRADICT OR MAKE OF NONE EFFECT THE DIMMER LIGHT OF THE PAST. {ST June 3, 1886, par. 13} THE PAST FIFTY YEARS HAVE NOT DIMMED ONE JOT OR PRINCIPLE OF OUR FAITH as we received the great and wonderful evidences that were made certain to us in 1844, after the passing of the time. The languishing souls are to be confirmed and quickened according to His Word. And many of the ministers of the gospel and the Lord’s physicians will have their languishing souls quickened according to the Word. NOT A WORD IS CHANGED OR DENIED. THAT WHICH THE HOLY SPIRIT TESTIFIED TO AS TRUTH after the passing of the time, in our great disappointment, is the solid foundation of truth. Pillars of truth were revealed, and we accepted the foundation principles that have made us what we are-Seventh-day Adventists, keeping the commandments of God and having the faith of Jesus. {Lt326-1905.3} “We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God’s word, and are to be respected, the application of them, IF SUCH APPLICATION MOVES ONE PILLAR FROM THE FOUNDATION THAT GOD HAS SUSTAINED THESE FIFTY YEARS, IS A GREAT MISTAKE. HE WHO MAKES SUCH AN APPLICATION KNOWS NOT THE WONDERFUL DEMONSTRATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT GAVE POWER AND FORCE TO THE PAST MESSAGES THAT HAVE COME TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD. (Preach the Word, p. 5 -1905). {CW 32.2} “What influence is it that would lead men at this stage of our history to work in an underhanded, powerful way to tear down the foundation of our faith,-the foundation that was laid at the beginning of our work by prayerful study of the word and by revelation? Upon this foundation we have been building for the past FIFTY YEARS. Do you wonder that when I see the beginning of a work that would remove some of the PILLARS OF OUR FAITH, I have something to say? I must obey the command, ‘Meet it!’” {EGW, SpTB02 58.1; 1904}
@@alongcamejones309I am very intrigued by her story starting from that incident where she was hit in the head with a rock as a child and based on the description of her symptoms she most likely sustained a brain injury. I am very curious how that injury could have been the origin of her visions.
I suggest on your next podcast to use scripture and base your opinion base on that, because our opinion doesnt matter, what matter is what God said, because i can see specialy on the post interview that, i can hear is your opinion and no scripture, sorry to say that it can lead to misunderstanding, we seventh-Day adventist believe on sola scriptura. And the Bible said that the spirit will lead us into ALL TRUTH.
I think i know where the divide is, and Pastor Wilson has driven the point, never diverted, it is the fact that you think/call yourselves Liberal. You should only be cbristian is all that the Pastor said. The Holy Spirit would tell you. And HE always tell me. Maybe, you need more years and more experience to know GOD fully amd truthfully!
I think as Christians we need to always pray for guidance and direction from the Holy Spirit before. We start on any topics over the internet in church wherever pray first that the Lord will guide and direct you. When and before you speak?
Very balanced answers. The balance is seeking the Lord Jesus Christ through His Word and be willing to follow His instruction and His voice. As He told Joshua, in so many words…I will be with you and never forsake you…only read My Words and be obedient to them. And everything you do, you will be successful. Just two simple principles. Read and meditate on My Words everyday and obey them. So easy. Can be done through the power of the HS.
I’ll be at Loma Linda this weekend! Be great to hang with you guys! Great show. Well done. You remind me of me when I was 30 something. I wasted the next 25 years following the false hope that the church would change. I promise you it will not. Run! lol. 🎉🎉🎉
My fear with having certain conversations is that we talk ourselves into certain positions as opposed to following the Bible as God directs us. For example, God told us directly that women were a helpmeet, not the head. This is not a put down to woman. It is what God said. The man is the head as Christ is the head of the church. There have been multiple occasions when God used women in positions of leadership when it is called for. Can a women preach. Yes she can. However, a woman must follow the direction God gave and it was not one of leadership in the pulpit. When we walk in our own way, it always lead to trouble. We are too close to the end now not to get it right.
Hey there friend, appreciate your thoughts! To your concern about having certain conversations and then talking ourselves into certain positions; that’s fair! Sometimes we can convince ourselves of almost anything right? However we believe in the power of honest, genuine conversations to lead us back to the Bible and following Jesus better. That’s our goal here. Also, sometimes we simply “assume” things are in the Bible, because they have been tradition or part of church doctrine or language for so long, when, in reality if we took a closer look we’d see we’re the ones not being faithful to the text! Or, that the scripture in the original language isn’t as simple or black and white as we previously thought. Sometimes things (like the women in ministry issue you brought up) are way more complex than we were originally taught. So it’s important to us to have open dialogue. As the text goes, “If we walk in the light as He is in the light, and have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Christ Jesus will cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:7💛
You mention having a different view than Elder Wilson when it come to the writings of Ellen White...what is your opinion of her writings? Also have you read The Conflict Series, Steps to Christ? I ask the second question because I feel like many people say, Ellen White was not inspired...and then I ask, "which of her books have you read." Then I hear crickets. And so I am interested to hear what the four of you think concerning Ellen Whites writings and also to hear how much of her writings have each of you read? I realize obviously the answer to these questions will vary.
Hey Stephen! Just circling around to comments and appreciate your thoughts and questions brother. In response first off we did an episode on Ellen White awhile back that contained a lot of our thoughts at the time. I know perhaps all of us have shifted a bit since then but that’s a good starting point. Second off we all have read her writings (Great Controversy, Desire of the Ages, Steps to Christ, Patriarchs and Prophets, Christ Object Lessons, Education, are the main ones I’ve read) and we all believe she had a prophetic gift from the Holy Spirit. I think what we meant about having a different view is the way in which someone views her prophetic gift, right? You went to seminary just as I, so you know we do not teach or believe in verbal inspiration. And yet many Adventists treat EGW with a verbal inspiration hermeneutic. Also, what does it mean to be prophetic or have the gift of prophecy? Not every Adventist agrees on what this looks like, and there are intellectually and theologically valid approaches that differ from Elder Wilson’s. That was the sort of thing we meant. Not everyone agrees with how EGW ought to be used in the church, so what do we do? Who decides (and enforces) which view is more true? Even if we agree that “a prophet shall be tested by their fruits,” different people emphasize different fruits. These are the questions we’re wrestling with! Anyway much love brother always, appreciate your thoughts! - Anthony 💛
The general conference had an opportunity to share the health message with the world during covid but didn’t. We had the opportunity to share our faith with the world during those times. Now we are going to have to work in a harder time. The general conference needs to separate from Babylon.
What millions members of the General Conference Seventh Day Adventist don't know is that, they thoughts that this current GC SDA church is in it true condition when it was established in 1863. The truth is that this current General Conference SDA church is in gross apostasy with its leadership. That is why the pastors and the members are using the News King James Version bible NKJV: the book of Satan, and the new logo and the new hymnbook that belonged to Satan. The GC SDA church had cross the gulf and grasp the hands of popes, the right hand of Satan. More can be add... Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. 1SM 204.2, Selected Messages Boook 1.
Ellen White Has Warned that Changes Would Take Place: “The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error.”- Ellen White, {1SM 204.2} THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE WAS WRITTEN IN 1903 FOLLOWED BY THE 25 FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES WHICH SHE SAID WOULD BE ACCOUNTED AS “ERROR”. “The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES THAT HAVE SUSTAINED THE WORK FOR THE LAST FIFTY YEARS WOULD BE ACCOUNTED AS ERROR. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. {1SM 204.2} Letter 242, October 19, 1903 “Who has authority to begin such a movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? {1SM 205.1} “I hesitated and delayed about the sending out of that which the Spirit of the Lord impelled me to write. I did not want to be compelled to present the misleading influence of these sophistries. But in the providence of God, the errors that have been coming in must be met.” {1SM 205.2} What did she say would happen? 1. The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists. 2. This reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. 3. The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. 4. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. 5. A “new organization” would be established. Books of a new order would be written. 6. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. 7. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed (original concept of One God is removed and was replaced with One God means trinity), they would place their dependence on human power. 8. It’s worth noting that of all the “fundamental principles” Seventh-day Adventist church has held when Ellen White wrote those words, the only notable doctrine that the modern SDA church counts it as being an error is the very doctrine that the church pioneers have held that deals with the personality of God. “The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith.- Ellen White {1SM 204.2} “I have been instructed to warn our people; for MANY ARE IN DANGER of receiving theories and sophistries that undermine the FOUNDATION PILLARS OF THE FAITH.” {Selected Messages bk. 1 p.196, 1904} “The Lord has declared that the history of the past shall be rehearsed as we enter upon the closing work. Every truth that He has given for these last days is to be proclaimed to the world. Every pillar that He has established is to be strengthened. We cannot now step off the foundation that God has established. We cannot now enter into any NEW ORGANIZATION; for this would mean apostasy from the truth.”-Manuscript 129, 1905. {2SM 390.1} “What influence is it would lead men at this stage of our history to work in an underhand, powerful way to tear down the foundation of our faith-the foundation that was laid at the beginning of our work by prayerful study of the Word and by revelation? Upon this foundation we have been building for the past fifty years. Do you wonder that when I see the beginning of a work that would remove some of the pillars of our faith, I have something to say? I must obey the command, “MEET IT!”… “I must bear the messages of warning that God gives me to bear, and then leave with the Lord the results. I must now present the matter in all its bearings; for the people of God must not be despoiled. “We are God’s commandment-keeping people. For the past fifty years every phase of heresy has been brought to bear upon us, to becloud our minds regarding the teaching of the Word-especially concerning the ministration of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary, and the message of Heaven for these last days, as given by the angels of the fourteenth chapter of Revelation. Messages of every order and kind have been urged upon Seventh-day Adventists, to take the place of the truth which, point by point, has been sought out by prayerful study, and testified to by the miracle-working power of the Lord. But the waymarks which have made us what we are, are to be preserved, and they will be preserved, as God has signified through His Word and the testimony of His Spirit. He calls upon us to hold firmly, with the grip of faith, to the fundamental principles that are based upon unquestionable authority.” 1SM 207.3-208.2 Note: When she wrote all of these warnings, Seventh-day Adventist Church was a non-trinitarian denomination and the Fundamental Principles (Specifically # 1 and #2 dealing with the personality of God) of the church were published in the church’s yearbook from 1889 until it was changed and was published again in 1931 and later officially voted in 1980.
Adventists have a righteousness that relys on obedience to the covenant ten commandments. The investigative judgement can remove the poor sevy at any time for unconfessed sin Grace is conditional as the sevy is on probation.
Thank God l was thought by the Sweet Holy Spirit that we are Christians even before we are an Adventist. We accept Christ first then we join the Chuch.
Just another denomination that has its own interpretation of the Bible . Everybody knows that he Bible is not for private interpretation and if ever there is any contradiction in that interpretation from Genesis to Revelation it is wrong .
Part 1 of 2 - As I started watching this interview I thought ‘here we go. A group of soy boys about to bow and scrape to the president’ but as I persisted and then continued and began to enjoy the interview I noticed that I had mischaracterised these hosts. The questions - even after constant deflecting and diverting from Ted Wilson - kept coming and the hosts kept bringing the side stepping back into line. Reiterating and gently pressuring their guest. I appreciated that. And the reality is, in answer to their questions about if their was ‘wriggle room’ for more diverse interpretations of truth, that their is not wriggle room. Ted Wilson has lead exactly as his father did. And anyone who presents a dissenting view is cleverly ‘axed’ in one way or another. Look at recent history (I’m sure you young bucks know all about the WO vote and the Compliance Document! But go back to Glacier View and the kangaroo trial of Dr Des Ford. You’ll see how the church treats people who hold a different perspective on church theology etc. The fact is, and you four I’m sure won’t agree with me but I’ll say it for your subconscious minds to absorb, the adventist church is in great error with regards to the gospel. And there was a time when things could have fallen in line with the Bible (glacier view - very the majority voted in favour of Des. But Neale Wilson brought in a last minute statement that wasn’t even brought to the group let alone voted on). And then history is re written with leadership literally saying - no, the majority voted against Des Ford. This was a blatant lie! And that’s how the church treats people who want some ‘wriggle room’. This is a shiny but dangerous religion. More dangerous than most. Beware my fine young hosts. And thank you for being brave enough to prove me wrong! You sent soy boys and you held the line. Well done. I’d advise you watch my Season 2, Episode 1 with Dr William G. Johnsson. You’ll be astounded with what you learn. If you have ears to learn and eyes to see. It’s on RUclips. I’m sure you won’t write back. But I hope you get to read this. And I hope deep down you see the never to be resolved flaws of adventism. If it simply didn’t have the gospel I’d say no worries. But adventism is anti-gospel. And destroys young lives like yours.
There are so many Adventists that move throughout the many circles of Christendom, welcomed as fellow believers and followers of Christ. Christians like NT Wright, Greg Boyd, Michael Card, and others actually hold to some non-traditional beliefs similar to Adventists. If people don't agree that Adventist doctrine is all valid, I totally understand. But I don't buy this notion that somehow Adventists are clueless about the gospel, to a greater extent than other Christian denominations. I've gone to many different church services in and out of Adventism and the essence of what's being preached in terms of the central gospel is the same. We're all learning and growing, finding the ever sweeter and purer good news that comes from an all-loving God. It feels like anti-Adventists of this vein are trying to leverage the gospel to narrow who can qualify as Christian. It makes me wonder how many other denominations and other flavors of Christianity also don't measure up as orthodox Christianity by these standards.
It has been said that “what we do is more important than what we say or what we say we believe.” Therefore, doctrines, prophecies & beliefs are of minor significance. “The essence of faith is fewness of words & abundance of deeds.” Christ seems to give more importance to actions like visiting the sick than uttering the doctrine “Lord, Lord.” Adventists do that & I have affection for them!!
What SDA historians say about our own church history: “Some Adventists today think, that our beliefs have remained unchanged over the years, or they seek to turn back the clock to some point when we had everything just right. But all attempts to recover such “historic Adventism” fail in view of the facts of our heritage.” (Adventist Review Jan 6, 1994 p. 10, written by William G. Johnsson, Editor of the Adventist Review, Article “Present Truth - Walking in God’s Light”.) “Adventist beliefs have changed over the years under the impact of ‘present truth’. Most startling is the teaching regarding Jesus Christ, our Saviour and Lord. Many of the pioneers, including James White, J. N. Andrews, Uriah Smith and J. H. Waggoner, held to an Arian or semi-Arian view-that is the Son at some point in time before the creation of our world was generated by the Father… Likewise, the Trinitarian understanding of God, now part of our fundamental beliefs was not generally held by the early Adventists. Even a few today do not subscribe to it.” (ibid)
After 70yrs of being raised/educated within the Adventist system I can see that unity is not achievable. I do appreciate ur attempt to ask a “soft” question of Elder Wilson…it is “a” relevant question still. However it is not “the” question. Let’s go to scripture “who do u say that I am?”…is still the relevant question of our time to the final days. “Having the form of godliness but denying the power there of. True Godliness isn’t about being a “seventh-day Catholic” nor following our own spiritual biases thinking there is anything holy/righteous within ourselves. Humanities salvation is found in The Holy One…Christ Our Righteousness. “While we were yet sinners Christ died for us” (the ungodly) Rom 5. Please allow me to state what’s obvious to me… When Christ died He died as all mankind/humanity. He died as me and u. All humanity was wrapping up in Him. This truth does NOT require me to like/accept/believe. Once saved always saved” is an objective truth that can not be added to nor subtracted from based on my interpretation of scripture. This is justification by faith. “The fires of hell were intended for Satan and his angels only.” “Humanity was predestined to be saved.”) If I elect to NOT reject The Holy Spirit of God my salvation is assured in Christ. The HS is constantly attempting to bring me/us back into this covenantal relationship. This is sanctification…the work of a lifetime. The Adventist crime began back in our history 1888 and another opportunity was granted to correct the errors in the 1950’s with the Barnhouse Martin charade. We failed that opportunity again. We’re told by EGW that if Christ stood before the leadership at that time they would crucify Him a fresh. Let’s not deceive ourselves into thinking that we’re not part of the bank robbery (crime scene) just because we’re driving the get-away car. The HS was commissioned by our risen Savior for a significant reason…to see Christ as He really is fully as the Son of God (God in carnal humanity) in order to become our High Priest etc There’s a finale approaching that is found within the sanctuary-service teaching biblically…the day of atonement. When Christ died He took our guilt shame condemnation and our 2nd death. Sin - the remission of sins it’s power and presents was defeated. (I realize we haven’t experienced sin’s presents to be removed yet but it will come also. Now that the curtain has been torn from top to bottom (as Bro Wilson alluded) let us enter in to the MH Place with boldness where the purification process can be completed in each of us vs. “ they would not enter in because of their unbelief.” As Paul stated…present Jesus Christ and Him crucified or it’s not The Gospel all. Who do u say that I am.
Just very interesting that hw said he is from Egypt cause thats exactly where the church is heading..Just wondering why he is sitting at the head if he has no impact on the confusion among Gods people. That position should be for Christ alone, afterall he himself have to seek Christ for the answer.
What? Wait... Elder Wilson said (21:00 aprox) that if the Sabbath wasn't directly related to a literal 7-day creation then what would be the point of the Sabbath. Well.... the 4th commandment... The Sabbath commandment would be the point of the Sabbath. I'm sure he just misspoke.
IMHO Wilson was saying “ if one is an evolutionist and thus not a creation … 7 day creation then the seventh day doesn’t fit Thus don’t be an evolutionist and try to keep the Sabbath!
Merlin Burt (Professor of Church History, Director, Center for Adventist Research, Andrews Theological Seminary) wrote about the history of trinitarianism in SDA: “One of the remarkable aspects of the history of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the development of the position of the trinity and the deity of Christ. These doctrines did not become normative in the church until the middle of the twentieth century”. (Merlin Burt, ‘Demise of Semi-Arianism and anti-trinitarianism in Adventist theology, 1888-1957 page iv ‘Preface’) He further explains, “The church gradually shifted during from the 1930s to 1950s to the ‘orthodox’ Christian view on the trinity and deity of Christ. . . . During the 1940s an ever increasing majority of the church was believing in the eternal underived deity of Christ and the trinity, yet there were some who held back even actively resisted the change.” (Ibid, pages 47-48) A Brief Summary of Trinity in Adventism 1) The church did not have an official directly voted upon trinity doctrine for the first 117 years of its existence (from 1863 to 1980). There was no corporate study ever done upon the subject by the general conference and it was only in the year 1980 that the church actually directly voted on the subject. The 1931 statement was adopted by default at the 1946 conference. Even to this day the church, at large, is in great confusion about this doctrine and it needs to be studied out officially. 2) Though Ellen White came out of Methodist church (which was a trinitarian denomination), in her approximately 25 million words she carefully avoided the word, “trinity” to describe God even though she had plenty of opportunity to do so and clearly knew the word. She did however used the word just once to denote three fleshly desires mentioned in 1 John 2:15-17: “This warning now comes to you, and what will you do with it? Will you say, “Have no fear of me?” But beware of that which the old writers called the world’s trinity-the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. If you trifle and tamper with these, they will prove your ruin. Unless you are born again, unless your objectionable hereditary tendencies are changed, unless purity and sanctification work a transformation in your lives, your barque will be shipwrecked, your souls lost. {Lt43-1898.25} Furthermore, we know that she has read trinitarian authors (i.e. W. E. Boardman, John Harris) and even used their wording at times but she never once described God as a “trinity” or spoke of a “triune God” or used the term, “God” to mean “a unity of 3 persons” nor any other expression that alluded to a God of plurality. What would you call someone who never did that? Non-trinitarian seems like a reasonable expression. Instead, she said “God is a [numerically singular] person”: “I have often seen the lovely Jesus, that He is a person. I asked Him if His Father was a person and had a form like Himself. Said Jesus, “I am in the express image of My Father’s person.” {EW 77.1} -1850s Ellen White said Christ and His Father are personal beings with Tangible forms (This counters the Methodist’s creedal articles of faith, as well as Catholic’s creed) which made God formless: “There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body or parts,”) -1869, She said Christ was equal with God; here, she forged ahead of her contemporaries in this assertion. -1872 She said, Christ was not a created being like the angels. -1890s Coinciding with the publishing of the book, The Desire of Ages, Testimonies bore more clearly concerning the divinity of Christ and the personhood of the Holy Spirit.
Great podcast guys you should go check out another adventist podcast too. Its called answering adventism and its about apolagetics. Make sure to go check it out
The reasons for lethargy in sharing SDA / biblical beliefs are many- but primarily because the church is locked into the idea of once a week preaching. Teaching is relegated to sabbath school classes (which many miss in a number of ways). What is needed is to let go of total reliance on sermonizing alone. Rather- a focus on learning should be the means of understanding biblical & SOP truths. Why isn’t our format more like college classrooms? Desks should replace pews. Engagement should replace a weekend sermon & song entertainment system. Imagine a church where you actually learned & had the opportunity to ‘test’ yourself on what you had learned. Weekly sabbath sermons are obviously not achieving the goals of the church to spread the gospel. This is the only way to get past the idea of thinking you know the doctrines- when in reality you do not
The church as a classroom! Help us Lord. This sounds like discipleship to me. what would happen if we as a church were discipled and were then sent to make disciples of men?
What Ellen White has said about the church pioneers and the pillars of our faith: “As a people, we are to stand firm on the platform of eternal truth that has withstood test and trial. WE ARE TO HOLD TO THE SURE PILLARS OF OUR FAITH. The principles of truth that God has revealed to us are our only true foundation. They have made us what we are. THE LAPSE OF TIME HAS NOT LESSENED THEIR VALUE. . .” (Ellen G. White, Selected Messages Vol 1 pg. 201) {1SM p. 201} “Let Pioneers Identify Truth.-When the power of God testifies as to what is truth, that truth is to stand forever as the truth. No aftersuppositions, contrary to the light God has given are to be entertained. Men will arise with interpretations of Scripture which are to them truth, but which are not truth. The truth for this time, God has given us as a foundation for our faith. He Himself has taught us what is truth. One will arise, and still another, with new light which contradicts the light that God has GIVEN UNDER THE DEMONSTRATION OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT.” (Counsels to Writers and Editors, 1905, p. 31) “We are NOT to receive the words of those who come with a message THAT CONTRADICTS THE SPECIAL POINTS OF OUR FAITH. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again DURING THE PAST FIFTY YEARS. And while the Scriptures are God’s word, and are to be respected, the application of them, IF SUCH APPLICATION MOVES ONE PILLAR FROM THE FOUNDATION THAT GOD HAS SUSTAINED THESE FIFTY YEARS, IS A GREAT MISTAKE. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the HOLY SPIRIT THAT GAVE POWER AND FORCE TO THE PAST MESSAGES THAT HAVE COME TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD.”-Preach the Word, p. 5 (1905). {CW 32.2} “I do not wish to ignore or drop one link in the chain of evidence that was formed as, after the passing of the time in 1844, little companies of seekers after truth met together to study the Bible and to ask God for light and guidance. . . . The truth, point by point, was fastened in our minds so firmly that we could not doubt. . . .The evidence given in our early experience has the same force that it had then. The TRUTH IS THE SAME AS IT EVER HAS BEEN, AND NOT A PIN OR A PILLAR CAN BE MOVED from the structure of truth. That which was sought for out of the Word in 1844, 1845, and 1846 remains the truth in every particular.” (Letter 38, 1906, pp. 1,2 [MS]) “The truths given us after the passing of the time in 1844 are just as certain and unchangeable as when the Lord gave them to us in answer to our urgent prayers. The visions that the Lord has given me are so remarkable that we know that what we have accepted is the truth. THIS WAS DEMONSTRATED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. Light, precious light from God, established the main points of our faith AS WE HOLD THEM TODAY.” (Letter 50, p. 3, par. 4 [1906 MS]) “At this time many efforts will be made to unsettle our faith in the sanctuary question; but we must not waver. Not a pin is to be moved from the foundations of our faith. Truth is still truth. Those who become uncertain will drift into erroneous theories, and will finally find themselves infidel in regard to the past evidence we have had of what is truth. The OLD WAYMARKS MUST BE PRESERVED, that we lose not our bearings.” (Letters 395, 1906, p. 4 [1906MS]) “MANY OF OUR PEOPLE DO NOT REALIZE HOW FIRMLY THE FOUNDATIONS OF OUR FAITH HAS BEEN LAID. My husband, Elder Joseph Bates, Father Pierce, [Older brethren among the pioneers are here thus reminiscently referred to. “Father Pierce” was Stephen Pierce, who served in ministerial and administrative work in the early days.] Elder [Hiram] Edson, and others who were keen, noble, and true, were among those who, after the passing of the time in 1844, searched for the truth as for hidden treasure. I met with them, and we studied and prayed earnestly. Often we remained together until late at night, and sometimes through the entire night, praying for light and studying the Word. Again and again these brethren came together to study the Bible, in order that they might know its meaning, and be prepared to teach it with power. When they came to the point in their study where they said, “we can do nothing more,’ the Spirit of the Lord would come upon me, I would be taken off in vision, and a clear explanation of the passages we had been studying would be given me, with instruction as to how we were to labor and teach effectively. Thus light was given that helped us to understand the scriptures IN REGARD TO CHRIST, HIS MISSION, AND HIS PRIESTHOOD. A LINE OF TRUTH EXTENDING FROM THAT TIME TO THE TIME WHEN WE SHALL ENTER THE CITY OF GOD, WAS MADE PLAIN TO ME, and I gave to others the instruction that the Lord had given me. {EW xxii.4} (RH, May 25, 1905 par. 24) “. . . The truths that we have been proclaiming for more than half a century have been contested again and again. Again and again the facts of faith have been disputed; but every time the Lord has established the truth BY THE WORKING OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT. Those who have arisen to question and overthrow the principles of 7 present truth, have been sternly rebuked.” (Letter 95, 1905) Note: this is after Desire of Ages was published.” {10MR 45.2} The time has come when things must be called by their right names. The truth is to triumph gloriously, and those who have long been halting between two opinions must take their stand decidedly for or against the law of God. Some will take up with theories that misinterpret the Word of God and undermine the foundation of the truth that has been firmly established, point by point, AND SEALED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. The old truths are to be revived, in order that the false theories that have been brought in by the enemy may be intelligently met. There can be no unity between truth and error. We can unite with those who have been led into deception only when they are converted. {Lt121-1905.10} “What influence is it would lead men at this stage of our history to work in an underhand, powerful way to tear down the foundation of our faith - the foundation that was laid at the beginning of our work by prayerful study of the Word and by revelation? UPON THIS FOUNDATION WE HAVE BEEN BUILDING FOR THE PAST FIFTY YEARS. Do you wonder that when I see the beginning of a work that would remove some of the pillars of our faith, I have something to say? I must obey the command, “Meet it!”…” 1SM 207.3 “We are God’s commandment-keeping people. FOR THE PAST FIFTY YEARS every phase of heresy has been brought to bear upon us, to becloud our minds regarding the teaching of the Word - especially concerning the ministration of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary, and the message of Heaven for these last days, as given by the angels of the fourteenth chapter of Revelation. Messages of every order and kind have been urged upon Seventh-day Adventists, to take the place of THE TRUTH WHICH, POINT BY POINT, HAS BEEN SOUGHT OUT BY PRAYERFUL STUDY, AND TESTIFIED TO BY THE MIRACLE-WORKING POWER OF THE LORD. But the waymarks which have made us what we are, are to be preserved, and they will be preserved, as God has signified through His Word and the testimony of His Spirit. He calls upon us to hold firmly, with the grip of faith, to the FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES THAT ARE BASED UPON UNQUESTIONABLE AUTHORITY.” {1SM 208.2-1903}
Truth is progressive and we continue to learn throughout eternity. These quotes do not negate clarity and a deeper understanding. Many misuse passages and are taken out of context.
The Lord’s servant has said, “WE ARE TO HOLD FAST TO THE FIRST PRINCIPLES OF OUR DENOMINATED FAITH.” These principles of faith, she said, were “SOUGHT OUT BY PRAYERFUL STUDY, AND TESTIFIED TO BY THE MIRACLE-WORKING POWER OF THE LORD” and that they were “BASED UPON UNQUESTIONABLE AUTHORITY” and ”THAT WHICH THE HOLY SPIRIT TESTIFIED TO AS TRUTH…” We would say that these are pretty strong endorsements coming from the Messenger of the Lord. Again and again Ellen White implored the believers to hold fast to the “foundation of our faith,” which the church pioneers have so firmly laid. She recalls that “A line of truth extending from that time [1844] to the time when we shall enter the city of God, was made plain to me”. This shows that God had given to Ellen White all the necessary pillars of truth which our church needed from the time she was writing forward until “we shall enter the city of God.” It is also worth noting that these statements were written between 1903 and 1905. The latest fundamental principles extant at that time were the 1889, and they wouldn’t be amended again until 1931. This is significant because many within the church believe that the SDA Church’s non-trinitarian position has already shifted toward trinitarianism in the year which coincided with the publishing of Ellen White’s book, The Desire of Age in 1898. She added, “WHEN MEN WHO COME IN WHO WOULD MOVE ONE PIN OR PILLAR FROM THE FOUNDATION WHICH GOD HAS ESTABLISHED BY HIS HOLY SPIRIT, LET THE AGED MEN WHO WERE PIONEERS IN OUR WORK SPEAK PLAINLY, AND LET THOSE WHO ARE DEAD SPEAK ALSO, BY THE REPRINTING OF THEIR ARTICLES IN OUR PERIODICALS. Gather up the rays of divine light that God has given as He has led His people on step by step in the way of truth. This truth will stand the test of time and trial. - Manuscript 62, 1905, 6.” (“A Warning against False Theories,” May 24, 1905.) {1MR 55.1} The truths that have been substantiated by the manifest working of God are to stand fast. Let no one presume to move a pin or a foundation stone from the structure. THOSE WHO ATTEMPT TO UNDERMINE THE PILLARS OF OUR FAITH ARE AMONG THOSE OF WHO THE BIBLE SAYS THAT ‘IN THE LATTER TIMES SOME SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH, GIVING HEED TO SEDUCING SPIRITS, AND DOCTRINES OF DEVILS.’” Letter 87, 1905, pp. 2, 3. (To Elder and Mrs. S. N. Haskell, February 25, 1905.) {1MR 55.2} “Those who seek to remove the old landmarks are not holding fast; they are not remembering how they have received and heard. Those who try to bring in theories that would remove the pillars of our faith concerning the sanctuary or concerning the personality of God or of Christ are working as blind men. They are seeking to bring in uncertainties and to set the people of God adrift without an anchor. {YRP 235.3}. “A Warning Against False Theories,” May 24, 1905.) {MR760 12.2} “A liar is one that presents false theories and doctrines. He who denies the personality of God and of His Son Jesus Christ is denying God and Christ. ‘If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son and in the Father.’ If you continue to believe and obey the truths you first embraced regarding the personality of the Father and the Son, you will be joined together with them in love.” [Ms 23-1906.20] Please note that “the sanctuary or concerning the personality of God or of Christ” are referred as “the pillars of our faith” and that they are also regarded as part of the “old landmarks” which Ellen White warned would change. Significantly, it is the very Fundamental Principles that has to do with the “personality of God or of Christ” is what did change from what the Pioneers previously believed to what the modern SDA church believes now
The second guy really seems like he has issues with what the church teaches. I have no idea who he is, but as a person who came into the faith at 22, and having studied the teachings of the church; our beliefs are Biblically Sound. I appreciate that there are questions, but hopefully, it's not coming with the idea that basic truths need to change. The Rock is where we should be standing. Praying for the young man.
I tend to understand the way you guys debating the issues on the the table specially as it relates to issues of truth. The question is how you understand truth.do you understand in a intellectual point of view or do you understand in a biblical perspective. As you as adventists as a biblical understanding of truth. John 17v 17. Sanctify them by the truth thy word is the truth
What could you NOT agree with what Ted Wilson said?? From a viewers perspective. It sounded like you guys all asked basically the same question in a way that sounded like you wanted Wilson to talk about some controversial things. Ask bold questions and you'll get to the truth.
Hi Emily! Appreciate your thoughts. As Jesse mentioned in our reaction portion of the episode, Elder Wilson did not allow us to ask certain questions, specifically about the women in ministry issue. Therefore, we weren’t able to ask all the “bold questions” we had hoped because he did not allow us to touch certain topics. That may have been why it felt like we were harping on the unity issue. (And we wanted to be respectful). That issue is a bit of a microcosm and related to basically any of the other issues. Also, we were pretty up front at the end with the things we disagreed with! Asking those bold questions you mentioned is why we started this series and we hope you stick with us! Thank you for listening! 💛
Says it all! What sort of culture or leader doesn’t allow certain questions? I don’t see God saying to Abraham, Moses, Job etc ‘you are not allowed to ask me certain difficult questions.’ @@seekingwhattheysought8247
Pretentious people think they know. The KJV Holy Bible says, they are fools. Do not do surgical reading but study it. Ask the Holy Spirit to guide and give you wisdom. Surrender and cleanse your heart. Do fasting, let the Lord Jesus Christ give you understanding to learn his words for you. Do not just listen to other experts, open the KJV Holy Bible by yourself.,.,.
This is a nice Ted Talk. Question. If we have a personal relationship with Jesus and receive the Spirit when reading the bible. Should we not then understand everything of the bible? John 16:13 it sounds a bit of a cop out to me when we claim God will give us understanding but it looks like our own collective "acceptable" knowledge on bible interpretation.
@unmistakablymelissa but if the bible tells us to rely on God for all truth. But then we up hold a book we only know 60% of what it is saying as the word of God. Does this not seem counter productive and part of the reason for so much confusion and misinterpretation of the bible?
@@ThatLee4 one should not expect to know all the truths contained in God's word, especially at the beginning of their walk with Him. the promise of our Lord and Savior is that He, the Spirit of Truth, will guide you into all truth. guide or lead is the same meaning, a process, a revealing, just as when a young man and woman become interested in each other, neither knows all about the other at first, and sometimes even after many years. but i will use two biblical examples. Paul in 1 Corinthians 3:1-10 tells the church there that he has had to speak to them not as in to spiritual terms but carnal(meaning earthly terms) because they were not able to bear it and where not even still. many times spiritual truths come to us when we are able to not only understand it but grasp it, eat it, take it into ourselves to make it real and living in our lives. Jesus Himself told the 12 in John 16:12, "there are many things i have to tell you, but you cannot bear them now." the 2nd is the case of the visions of Daniel in chapters 8-12. in chapter 8 Daniel tells of the vision of the ram and he-goat, and the sanctuary being cleansed after 2300 prophetic days, literal years. Daniel, becomes ill for days, not eating good for weeks and in chapter 9 continues the story. in 9 he starts with him understanding the 70 years of captivity prophesied by Jeremiah 29:10-14. the time is then and he wonders why it hasn't come about. to get to point i want to make, Gabriel comes to him to explain some of the vision from chapter 8, and that vision did not pertain to the 70 year captivity but to a future event that was to come at the time of the end, and gave him the starting time which was also the beginning of the countdown of the 70 weeks of years, the 490 years for the Jews, the coming of the Messiah and His death. and in following chapters Gabriel comes back to further explain future events. i know this speaks of Daniel and his visions, but the principle is the same. Daniel, who Gabriel says is a man greatly beloved in heaven and by God, with all his wisdom did not understand all the vision. i can only tell you from my experience that there have been scriptures i thought i knew because i've read them several times before and then, God reveals something else in that same scripture i've never seen. so it is with truth, sometimes it's bit by bit, something you never saw before, just as times when you may not understand why something happens the way it did, or understand something in the bible and take it to God asking of Him, and the answer doesn't come then, the next day, week, month even years. God promises us answers, but not on our time, but His. i can tell you even when He gives you the answer, even years later, decades later, He lets you know He's answered that prayer because He will remind you of that prayer, He brings it to you remembrance. at least that's how it has been with me.
What millions members of the General Conference Seventh Day Adventist don't know is that, they thoughts that this current GC SDA church is in it true condition when it was established in 1863. The truth is that this current General Conference SDA church is in gross apostasy with its leadership. That is why the pastors and the members are using the News King James Version bible NKJV: the book of Satan, and the new logo and the new hymnbook that belonged to Satan. The GC SDA church had cross the gulf and grasp the hands of popes, the right hand of Satan. More can be add... Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. 1SM 204.2, Selected Messages Boook 1.
A wonderful program. Somehow I feel a bit of cynicism about your conclusion about Pastor Ted Wilson. He’s reply to what is truth. Truth is absolute. It’s not dependent upon anyone’s interpretation. Jesus is Truth. Every word He spoke is Truth. That why I believe , Pastor Wilson , kept showing the gospel method of Truth , which is the basic principle of our salvation………… speaking of interpretations is another story , there’s also no private interpretation. So where do we go , Again only to the bible, which interprets itself……………… where are we now….. stock between a rock and a hard place . Where’s the wiggle. ?? None . The scripture will alo be unchangable. I am 86 years old. Now you might say, On now I see; she is just one of the old stock in there ways SDA.. Well , I don’t feel that way. I am all for Chang, traditions that are not biblically based, but makes the church look sanctimonious , can go. Some music besides the hymnal can be accessible, And perhaps other things can be discussed. However to allow everyone to say “ I have new light, probably because I am more educated and have a Dr degree. Can’t work , only education sanctified by the power of the HolySpirit is real. Many of the ones wanting change needs to go to God in earnest. Denying all self interest and preconceived ideas. Speak confess surrender . Then ask God for wisdom. I believe you probably would arise , not wanting nothing else but closer walk with God. We to close to heaven now. To be consumed w change . When the change we mostly need is a converted heart. Young people , I sincerely 🥰 love you all. There is to much pressure on you at this time…. Church members are so critical and judgmental that it sometimes make you feel like running. We don’t; Jesus loves you as you are, stay with Him, He will do the adjustments. Give everything to Him …………….. much love 💕 JK Winning Canada 🇨🇦
Really appreciate your thoughts Jean! You mentioned, “truth is absolute,” and while we agree truth (Jesus said He was the Truth) is absolute, our perspectives on truth are not. That was something we mentioned in our discussion after. That no matter how hard we try to simply “pursue the truth,” we will inevitably be subject to personal and (especially) cultural bias as to how to interpret and practice truth. It is inescapable. We all make assumptions and have ideas “beneath” our theology that are difficult to escape, even someone claiming to “simply be following the truth.” Not trying to be combative at all, but these are the things we are wrestling with! It’s tough right! Anyway much gratitude for your thoughts, thank you for listening!😊💛
Never does the Wilson family talk about Don Wilson Td’s Uncle and Neal’s brother.. Having a non-SDA family member and all that brought to their family dynamic might be an interesting topic. It might show the rest of us how to work and deal with a situation like that and humanize Ted a bit.
There are 2 Advents connected with the 7th Day/Millennium. The 2nd Advent is near, and the 3rd Advent will be at the end of the 7th Millennium. shalom.
God did not make Robots we are given a choice choose you this day whom you will serve if God be God serve him. The just shall live by faith Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. (Rom 10:17) Without Faith it is impossible to please God Heb 11:6 We can not please God doing what we think or feel like doing. We please God doing what God says. Jesus said you are my friends if you do whatsoever I command you. (John 15:14) And why do you call me Lord Lord and do not the things I say. (Luke 6:46) Help us this day Holy Father to listen to voice of Jesus and follow him is my prayer in Jesus name Amen.
Even though the Adventist church on the surface has great disagreement with the Catholics the gospel of the Catholic church with it's pergitory and the Adventist Investigative Judgement both teach the same and that is the atonement of Jesus is not enough and both of these doctrines is not found in scripture Pergitory teaches more is required by the believer to purge sins before entry into heaven. The Investigative Judgement is to judge if the christian is fit for heaven by being perfect Both doctrines are salvation by works and I have heard an Adventist evangelist say the investigative judgement is Adventists purgitory
What is an Adventist? Very good question. Is an Adventist shaped by 27, no, 28 fundamental creeds? Or is an Adventist one who believes like the original Pioneers from 1844-1863, before the birth of the Conference, and who were not "Trinitarians"? Or Is an Adventist some one reads and quotes re-edited books not really written by Ellen G White, but by a committee of 5 Conference members, and the White Estate? Is an Adventist some one who does not do their own homework, but lets clergy shape their opinions instead? Is an Adventist some one who identifies with Revelation 3 and the church of Laodicea? And what is a "Conference Adventist,"? Are they an organization that has been performing abortions in their own hospitals for over 50 years and did not tell the the members who pay tithe, about it? Is a conference Adventist some one who sends their own prophet far away to another continent against her will, when widowed and old, because they did not like what she wrote in her original books? Is an Adventist some one, that now connects with Rome, because times have changed, even though Bible prophesy has not changed regarding the first beast of Revelation 13? Neal C Wilson, father of president Ted Wilson, had some famous words sworn under oath, about how much the SDA organization mirrored the Roman Catholic Church. The SDA now, do look very much Catholic, Shall I say, an Adventist is now Catholic?
The closest thing you’ll ever read from her pen is the phrase, “three living persons of the heavenly trio.” Mrs. White seems to have gotten as close as you can to the trinity without crossing over. She appears to have remained neutral. She never rebuked the anti-trinitarian pioneers and wrote some things in harmony with them. She also never rebuked her post 1890 contemporaries who used trinitarian terminology and wrote some things (on eternality of Christ and of the personhood of the Holy Spirit) that appears to be in harmony with them including her endorsement of the Doxology. At least, in appearance, the inspiration takes a position between the two camps, supporting some aspects of each view but never embracing either holistically. 3) From 1844 till at least late 1890s the nearly unanimous position of the SDA people was non-trinitarian. This is what the church’s fundamental principles (1872-1914) indicate. Ellen White gave strong endorsements of these principles and so there must be an aspect of truth in them that should not be abandoned. But towards the late 1890s to the early 1900s, various influences from both within (Kellogg Crisis-See below) and from without the denomination (Dudley Canright being one of the principal culprit), forced the church to react and shift its position to accept the trinitarian terminologies in the more positive sense while still maintaining their non-trinitarian beliefs as far as the ontological pre-incarnate begotten Sonship and the Holy Spirit being the Spirit of the Father and the Son. In addition, while it is accurate to say that from 1844 up until the 1930s, the consensus view was that the Son of God was begotten before incarnation; there was a shift in terms of when that occurred, with some even adopting an orthodox view (i.e. eternal generation). Moreover, even with the Ellen White’s description of the Holy Spirit as a “person” notwithstanding, the Holy Spirit was consistently viewed as the Spirit of God and Spirit of Christ within this period. It is also between the 1950s -1970s that SDA theology started to decidedly shift toward unbegottenism (Jesus is not a begotten but a “unique” Son prior to incarnation), which is now the dominant view. “Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. BUT THEY SAID, WE WILL NOT WALK THEREIN.” -Jeremiah 6:16
“Most of the founders of Seventh-day Adventism would not be able to join the church today if they had to subscribe to the denomination’s Fundamental Beliefs. More specifically, most would not be able to agree to belief number 2, which deals with the doctrine of the trinity.” (George R. Knight-professor of church history at the Theological Seminary, Andrews University, Berrien Springs, Michigan; Ministry, October, 1993, p. 10) “In like manner, most of the founders of Seventh-day Adventism would have trouble with fundamental belief number 4, which holds that Jesus is both eternal and truly God. For J. N. Andrews “the Son of God … had God for His Father, and did, at some point in the eternity of the past, have beginning of days.” And E. J. Waggoner, of Minneapolis 1888 fame, penned in 1890 that “there was a time when Christ proceeded forth and came from God,… but that time was so far back in the days of eternity that to finite comprehension it is practically without beginning.” (ibid) Read the entire article from Ministry Magazine, October, 1993 issue HERE. “The Development of the Trinity doctrine demonstrates that sometimes doctrinal changes require the passing of a previous generation. For Seventh-day Adventists, it took over 50 years for the doctrine of the Trinity to become normative.” Burt, Merlin D. (2006) “History of Seventh-day Adventist Views on the Trinity, ” Journal of the Adventist Theological Society: Vol. 17 : Iss. 1, Article 9. (P. 139) A well-known Adventist Trinitarian Jerry Moon who was a co-author of the book The Trinity wrote: “That most of the leading SDA pioneers were non-Trinitarian in their theology has become accepted Adventist history” {Jerry Moon “The Trinity” p. 190} He then goes on to say, “either the pioneers were wrong and the present church is right, or the pioneers were right and the present Seventh-day Adventist Church has apostatized from biblical truth.” - Jerry Moon, The Trinity, Chapter, Trinity and antitrinitarianism in Seventh-day Adventist history, p. 190
Adventists have a righteousness that relies on obedience to the covenant ten commandments. The investigative judgement can remove the poor sevy at any time for unconfessed sin. Grace is conditional as the sevy is on probation never knowing for sure if saved or not!
What is the purpose of this interview? Is it to criticize TW's answers among yourselves in the public? To the person who said that you do not see the path to unity, I would say that God will make it happen in His own time as He did with the desciples. While it is true that many young Aventists are leaving the church for the reasons you have mentioned in your conversation, I belive that God is bringing many who are(from outside the church) searching sincerely for truth into the church.
Good day to all of you . Pastor Ted what can you say about these Independent Ministries all over the world. Can they still be called members of the SDA Church? Some Independent Ministries are funded by General Conference but some are not ! Are they classified as no longer members of the world church of SDA's?
LOve the Ellen. Adventists say their is no fault in her writings. Ellen G. White, , wrote extensively about the topic of masturbation or "self-abuse" in her books and articles. In her view, masturbation was a sin that could lead to physical and mental harm. For example, in her book "The Healthful Living," she wrote: "The practice of self-abuse [masturbation] is a terrible sin, and one that will surely be punished, unless it is most thoroughly repented of and forsaken." She also believed that the habit of masturbation could lead to a weakened willpower, moral degradation, and a lack of self-control. Maybe that explains the frustrated look i see in SDA`s?
Though we are now having a few drops here and there from the latter rain no big outpouring will not happen in the wheat and tare church as it is now. It will only fall on the whole wheat church after the National Sunday Law to give power to the Loud Cry to finish up the work. The 144,000 will experience the full out pouring to finish the work similar to the Apostles at the begining of the work.
I truly agree 100% of what the Bible teaches, “Train up a child in the way he should . . . .” When the child goes astray, I think the parents did not properly trained the child. Yes, they would say, we did our best, but he turned out this way. Only God knows if you really done it right. The Bible is inspired, “when God (the Word) said it, I believe it”.
God is so gracious, understanding and forgiving. This is the promise to parents who they think they’ve done their best to lead their child to the Lord and yet went astray. Don’t give up to pray for your children. I fully believe that God’s word is true, because it happened in our family, my brother was restored to Christ. Jeremiah 31:15This is what the Lord says: “A cry is heard in Ramah- deep anguish and bitter weeping. Rachel weeps for her children, refusing to be comforted- for her children are gone.” 16But now this is what the Lord says: “Do not weep any longer, for I will reward you,” says the Lord. “Your children will come back to you from the distant land of the enemy. 17There is hope for your future,” says the Lord. “Your children will come again to their own land 🙏
I am 85 and will be baptized into SDA in a couple weeks. It must be wonderful have spent your life, all of your lives as Adventists and lived for Jesus.
That is beautiful, Jean! 🎉Congratulations on your baptism and decision for Jesus! We feel incredibly grateful to have grown up in the church and met Jesus at a young age. Thanks for listening 💛
Congratulations Jean. It is not by our works that we are saved and not how long we've been Adventists. I've been Adventist all my life too..but it is our acceptance of Christ and being a living sacrifice to God daily. Remember the parable Jesus told of the workers. Those who worked for 12 hours, those who worked 9 hours, those who worked even for an hour, they all got the same wage. The thief on the cross didn't have time to be a Christian, but Christ saved him when he gave his heart to Jesus. Praise God, by His Grace, we have eternal life 🙏🏽❤️
❤
too bad you are not baptized into Christ and Christ alone. 85 years and deceived by this organization a cult. Ask Holy Spirit to open your eyes. and heart
Jesus is constantly looking for those who will worship Him in (The Holy) Spirit and in (The Law of ) Truth. Welcome home.
Im proud of being a part of Adventist denomination.❤
What millions members of the General Conference Seventh Day Adventist don't know is that, they thoughts that this current GC SDA church is in it true condition when it was established in 1863. The truth is that this current General Conference SDA church is in gross apostasy with its leadership. That is why the pastors and the members are using the News King James Version bible NKJV: the book of Satan, and the new logo and the new hymnbook that belonged to Satan. The GC SDA church had cross the gulf and grasp the hands of popes, the right hand of Satan. More can be add...
Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. 1SM 204.2, Selected Messages Boook 1.
You should be proud that your name is written in the book of Life
@@alray1261
Revelation 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Loved the interview with Dr Tim Jennings, please bring Dr Tim Jennings back for another round!
God bless you with the mighty power of the Holy Spirit, Elder Ted Wilson 🙏
😢
I really enjoy listening to the honesty reflected in the sharing of thoughts at the end of the interview with Elder Wilson. I grew up as an Adventist in Montego Bay, Jamaica. I wanted to a pastor but ended up as a police officer and later a US Marine. I am retired now; in and out of the church. I love the program.
I also believe that your culture impacts how you relate to or understand the Scripture. I hasten to add that culture is not a determinant of salvation. I believe the mission of the Holy Spirit is to prepare us for salvation. In my mind, The HS will imbue us with the culture of heaven.
Great podcast.
Really value your thoughts, Owen! Thank you for sharing your story. Love your thoughts about culture not being where our salvation comes from. So glad you enjoyed the episode, and thanks for listening!💛
Came across your video by accident. I'm not Adventist and, to be honest, there is much about your denomination that I simply have no knowledge of. It's interesting, though, that I see in your church the same struggles that are going on in just about every denomination. One of you expressed concern that you are becoming more polarized over the last 10 or 15 years. Isn't that true for the church in general? I'm not your age. I'm a Boomer. And to be frank, I have been quite dismayed at the way our current culture is progressing. Mr. Wilson seemed to have a clearer belief in Truth than the four of you. I think the confusion that our current generation is experiencing on so many levels is the result of either not clearly being taught the truth of the Christian faith, or simply abandoning it. I tend to think it is both/and. I think you're right when you say that culture will influence our interpretation of scripture. However, I believe it is irresponsible for us to swim in the sea of indecision when it comes to cultural issues. What I heard Mr.. Wilson saying is that scripture, being divinely inspired and authoritative, should be our guide when addressing these issues. I hear too many people begging for dialogue when the scriptures and the tradition of the church over the last two thousand years are pretty clear about certain things. I know you don't want to alienate people in your churches, but let's face it, that's a reality of the world we live in. We can't be all things to all people. There will be those who get their feelings hurt. We will either live in accordance with the truth of scripture, or we will not. I think many of us today across all generational lines need to learn this lesson. If we do not the church will continue down the path of growing irrelevance in relation to a world that desperately needs clear direction. Thanks guys, I enjoyed the video.
Well said.
Really appreciate your perspective on the discussion. Its more important to constantly seek the Holy Spirit as He guides us to understand and live out the Truth of Gods word in our lives. As a Gen Xer, I have seen a shift in the Christian Community from living and teaching Biblical truths, toward a pivot to fit the current culture. That's truly where the confusion has come from. Growing up as a Christian Adventist, there was very little confusion as to who we are and what we believe. Now it seems with the world connecting more through the means of social media, there is growing shift to fit more popular narratives. But weren't we warned by Jesus Himself that broad is the way that leads to destruction and many will be that find it? And weren't we also reminded to hold fast to what we have been taught because there will be seducing spirits in the last days?
Let us hold fast to the Word of God and the Truth contained within. Knowing that Truth does not pivot to fit the culture. Pastor Ted was on point to remind us that if we are share the truth in earnestness as led by The Holy Spirit, He brings about the spirit of unity and growth. The evidence of this is shown in Pastor Teds example, comparing the growth in Africa and North America. In North America, we do a lot of debating and a lot of pivoting to the culture. Hence, the work is hindered, division is revealed and growth is stagnant. In contrast, the church in Africa continues to explode because their focus is evangelism on the grass roots level. The field is ripe in North America, the harvest is ready, but the laborers are few. Lets refocus on the mission and put away the debate.
Thanks for the video brothers.
It is a cult. Even worse than Jehovah's witness
Amen.. that’s the truth..scripture is the foundation of Christianity..not culture not what mother did etc.. we must stand on the Word of God..
Hello and MAY JESUS BLESS YOU.➡️➡️Please if you have any bible questions please tell me I can send you my WhatsApp and I can show prophecy of Daniel and Revelation, the CROSS and the 10 commandments/ grace , Dress/ fashion in the church, Evangelism/ sharing the word etc
"To the Torah, and to the Testimony, if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Blessings and shalom.
Please read Revelation 22 which speaks about adding to God’s word.
Where in the Bible does it say ",THE TORAH??...be careful so as not to lead anyone astray. God WILL hold you guilty.
@@angelabucknor4981dang you savage
@@jessechurchill7027 .... to speak the TRUTH????....😳😳😳😳
Isaiah 8:20 To the Law and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Truth will triumph in the end. God is still in control. May God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
I loved what Elder Wilson said to you guys about leading your wife and children as the priest. Good for him. When I was an Adventist there was little to no talk about a father being the priest of the family. That just wasn't a thing. So it's fabulous to hear that this concept has swept into Adventism. I felt like there was some real uncomfortableness as you spoke to him. I think Elder Wilson is so old school that he simply cannot understand your view of a progressive Adventism. It's probably unthinkable in his mind.
I gotta say, after listenting to the entire episode I truly enjoyed it. I'm curious though, as to what it is that you guys believe that is fueling the entire conversation. Like, what is your stance on the truth? because it comes up so much but it is nos directly talked about. Being an SDA my entire life, I've definitely questioned A LOT growing up so I can't help but feel identified with the discussion and the need to remain open. I don't know if anyone needs to hear this, but in my experience, after questioning and somewhat practicing a more open view on religion and faith and Bible truth, in the recent years the spirit has led me right back to the "traditional" view on the truth that I resisted before. When I say the Spirit led me back, it's like Pastor Wilson says, if you're seeking him with a humble heart he will lead you to it and where there was once confusion, skepticism, lack of understanding, now there is clarity.
Man!! So good. A friend led me to this podcast. Thank you guys for what you are doing. We need more of this!
Theres so much I want to say, but Ill say this, for me, the best thing and "worst" thing from our church is our differences in culture. I say the best thing, cause how awesome it is that we have the same message all over the world. And the worst thing, because we are so divided by it as well. (Im all for the different cultures. I was born in Central America, and have influence from the hispanics, caribbean and USA, etc).
Also its so interesting that conservatives and liberals all agree that they have heard from the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit speaks different to each people, or we are not even listening right? I believe we will know this until we reach Heaven (or maybe in the end end end times).
I have seen so many injustices in the SDA church, my dad retired from working in the church, my mom and I are working for the church, and here we are still loving our church, cause we believe in the message, and we believe that our message needs to reach others.
Keep it up, new subscriber here, I will definitely try to catch up on the other episodes as well. God bless you. Greetings from Miami.
Happy to see this ministry come over on youtube!
Thanks for following us Baffour! And for listening! 💛
Thank You, Brother! May the Peace and Wisdom of our Lord Jesus Christ, (whom is SOON to return), be forever in your Hearts and Minds, Amen
😢I thank God for the tenet if the discussion. I summarize it by saying united in truth biblically. Pastor Wilson, may God keep you firm and sound.
Awesome program and awesome GC President. One of the best in the world 🌎 👍🙏🙏🙏🇺🇸
It reassuring that the president of the SDA church knows his bible, SOP and believes in all the pillars of our faith
If he knew his bible he would apologise for leading the sheep astray with his unbiblical investigative judgement reinforced by the false prophet and plagiarist Ellen white
If he knows Bible that much, he would stick to it, not Ellen White's writings
Right! Because its not like bibical writers under inspiration ever borrowed literature from other sources including pagan sources right.
@@tronley77Our concept of plagiarism did not exist in the ancient world. However it was in Ellen White’s day which is why William Conybeare & John Howson planned on filing a lawsuit against her for plagiarizing their book, “Life and Epistles of Saint Paul” with her copycat, “Sketches From the Life of Paul”. The SDA Church withdrew the book from print until after the copyright expired to avoid any legal action. This was admitted by church leaders in the files on the 1919 Bible Conference.
The Bible writers did not make a profit from other’s words and ideas and pass off as their own directly from God, nor did they have others go out and sell their books door-to-door like EGW did.
@@tronley77
Jeremiah 23:30
“Therefore,” declares the Lord, “I am against the prophets who steal from one another words supposedly from me.
(37:00) When I left Adventism, I went and spoke to every mainstream denomination's pastor I could. I spoke with dozens from Pentecostals to Orthodox. ALL of them said EXACTLY what President Wilson said here. All of them said if I just prayed with the Holy Spirit and studied my Bible that I would become ______ (whatever denomination that pastor was). Because the scriptures CLEARLY teach what they taught. After about ten, I began to ask the pastors why other denominational pastors say the exact same thing. And they then went into the whole talk about "unity on essentials, charity on non-essentials." So, not an answer. None of them. Not one single pastor could answer the question of WHY does the Holy Spirit lead sincere, dedicated, seeking Christians to differing interpretations of scripture.
Is God really truly leading people to different truths? Can some people divorce and remarry because they interpret Jesus words in a more liberal way than others? Is homosexuality wrong or is it just a matter of how one sincerely interprets the scriptures? Infant/adult baptism was at one time something Christians killed each other over. Does God want people to be THAT dependent upon their own interpretation of scripture that we will separate from each other, even with hostility, because we read its truths differently?
How is it possible for Pastor Wilson to suggest that ALL other Christians who lived for 1800 years after Christ's death just never interpreted the Bible correctly until the Adventist Founding Fathers/Mother did? Were they the ONLY ones who were sincere enough and who read scriptures enough to get it, finally? Not picking on Adventists, because the assumption of all these other denominational pastors is the same. Everyone else but "us" is not REALLY sincere or does not REALLY have the Holy Spirit.
In the past the SDA church has at least had Ellen's angel to as authoritative and not sola scriptura. Now they have joined the rank and file of those promoting the idea that everyone will come to THEIR truth if they just sincerely, really utterly sincerely pray and study.
My heart goes out to you Arthur and Teresa. I've had a very similar search and very similar discussions with many pastors. There is an answer to your question. There are 40,000 plus Christian denominations... why?
Prayerfully ask you to look at Dr Tim Jennings come and reason. He actually did another broadcast on this channel just a few days ago. God bless you as you both search for God his true character and where he is leading you both. In his love, David
"Spiritual things are spiritually discerned." Physical things are intellectually understood. Thank you Elder Wilson.
the emphasis of the Sabbath day in the name "Seventh-Day Adventist" is not merely an emphasis on the keeping of the fourth commandment but the keeping of the whole 10 commandments as well. when we say that we should keep the seventh day holy, we actually mean that we should keep the whole 10 commandments as written in the Bible through love.
Sounds like something an Adventist would say…
@@segheglol what does that even mean
Very informative program.
Thanks so much. God bless you all. God words should and must be shared 🙏
💛!!
You are God's wonderful people🙏thank you for sharing🥰🙏
That’s so nice!🤩 Thanks for listening Eve!💛
Great uplifting from the GC president. Yes the key for unity is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit unites all Adventists across the world and yes I believe one will feel at home walking into any Adventist church anywhere in the world by the same Spirit we share. If anything is different, that is due to the lack of the Holy Spirit. Also I agree with the comment of praise and worship. Praising God in spirit and in truth is not the same as the type of music at the rock bands. Remember, God is calling His people to come out of Babylon. That means we are a peculiar people different to the world and the practices of the world. We cannot compromise and be comforted with the world norm only to feel belong. I'm sorry but you have to be a soldier of Christ and leave this world behind. I am from Papua New Guinea and I have no trouble at all agreeing to both Pastor Doug Batchelor and Elder Wilson's view as Adventists. May the Holy Spirit continue to lead His people and may Christ be the centre always 🙏🏽 ❤️
❤ this is an excellent program, and I am enjoying it.
There will be more soon! Thanks for watching!
So glad you’re enjoying, Girma! Thanks for listening friend!💛
Great invaluable Leadership advice. Thank you 🙏
I’m watching this out of sequence. This is my second episode. This is fascinating and interesting and eye opening. I’m subscribing to this and will ‘Box Set’ this now. Watching from England in the United Kingdom.
Thank you for this. I appreciate you all. God bless you.
Amen pastor Wilson.
I cherish the spirit of Adventists. I am an African Adventist Baha’i. The Adventist Christianity in me is that Ellen White’s health counsels are part of my daily living. The Baha’i in me constitutes of my participation in building Christ’s Kingdom on earth. I am caught up in speeding up the process of Christ’s coming so that “all eyes” can see Him in clouds.
In your video description the question is posed: "Is there room at the table of Adventism to disagree while pursuing the same mission?" Jesus taught that there would be "one fold and one Shepherd". The apostle wrote to the church at Corinth: "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment". I believe the answer to your question is addressed in these and other passages of scripture.
The little flock will go astray because the parents itself are not well rooted on the truth and no opening and real reading and studying of the bible. Go and read what the Waldenses were like at the time of the reformers. It is amazing how they were schooled on the bible and were so firm in their foundation that even when they went to university nothing could change their mind. They were leaders and not followers. Way to go elder Wilson! The word of God is our guide and the Spirit of prophecy is for our days. If every member of the church read Testimonies for the Church with an open heart to really learn and practice the Seventh Day Adventist Church would come into unity. God bless you elder Wilson as you lead God’s people.🙏🏼
Amen, Thanks for sharing ❤
As a 7th Day Adventist I believe that the gospel should be easy to understand very straightforward and to the point there is only one way to Jesus other roads. Are all going toward satan's realm and if we do not understand it. Then we can pray about it for wisdom, guidance and direction. But we also have to realize God is so massive big, he is so complex, just the thought of trying to comprehend god's power is unimaginable so we just surrender to his will and let him be in charge take over because he. Knows what's right and he knows what's best for humanity so trust in Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior.
As Christians we should never go by our 5 senses and are emotions and feelings because they can affect the way you think and act. We always should put our feelings aside because it's not about our feelings. It's not about us it's about the Lord and what he asks us to do. Sometimes we got to go into an area that we are not comfortable with, but that is the thing we'd have to stick to the word and the word only.
It is not so that Elder Wilson said that what he said was the truth. He said the Bible has the truth and the Holy Spirit will guide us all into truth. Don’t put your feelings into what he said. It is not fair.
In her letter to her son, W. C. White on December 4, 1905, Ellen White warned about the apostasy that would enter the church and implored the members to “hold fast to the first principles of our denominated faith.”
“One thing it is certain is soon to be realized-the great apostasy, which is developing and increasing and waxing stronger and will continue to do so until the Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout. WE ARE TO HOLD FAST TO THE FIRST PRINCIPLES OF OUR DENOMINATED FAITH and go forward from strength to increased faith. Ever we are to keep the faith that HAS BEEN SUBSTANTIATED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD from the earlier events of our experience UNTIL THE PRESENT TIME. We need now larger breadth and deeper, more earnest, unwavering faith in the leadings of the Holy Spirit. If we needed the manifest proof of the Holy Spirit’s power to confirm truth in the beginning, after the passing of the time, we need today all the evidence in the confirmation of the truth, when souls are departing from the faith and giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. There must not be any languishing of soul now. If ever there was a period of time when we needed the Holy Spirit’s power in our discourses, in our prayers, in every action proposed, it is now. We are not to stop at the first experience, but while we bear the SAME MESSAGE to the people, this message is to be strengthened and enlarged. We are to see and realize the importance of the message made certain by its divine origin. We are to follow on to know the Lord, that we may know that His going forth is prepared as the morning. Our souls need the quickening from the Source of all power. We may be strengthened and confirmed in the past experience that holds us to the essential points of truth which have made us what we are-Seventh-day Adventists. {Lt326-1905.2}
Principles of our faith needs to be preserved
But although the long line of events extends through so many centuries, and new and important truths are from time to time developed, that which was truth in the beginning is the truth still. THE INCREASED LIGHT OF THE PRESENT DAY DOES NOT CONTRADICT OR MAKE OF NONE EFFECT THE DIMMER LIGHT OF THE PAST. {ST June 3, 1886, par. 13}
THE PAST FIFTY YEARS HAVE NOT DIMMED ONE JOT OR PRINCIPLE OF OUR FAITH as we received the great and wonderful evidences that were made certain to us in 1844, after the passing of the time. The languishing souls are to be confirmed and quickened according to His Word. And many of the ministers of the gospel and the Lord’s physicians will have their languishing souls quickened according to the Word. NOT A WORD IS CHANGED OR DENIED. THAT WHICH THE HOLY SPIRIT TESTIFIED TO AS TRUTH after the passing of the time, in our great disappointment, is the solid foundation of truth. Pillars of truth were revealed, and we accepted the foundation principles that have made us what we are-Seventh-day Adventists, keeping the commandments of God and having the faith of Jesus. {Lt326-1905.3}
“We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God’s word, and are to be respected, the application of them, IF SUCH APPLICATION MOVES ONE PILLAR FROM THE FOUNDATION THAT GOD HAS SUSTAINED THESE FIFTY YEARS, IS A GREAT MISTAKE. HE WHO MAKES SUCH AN APPLICATION KNOWS NOT THE WONDERFUL DEMONSTRATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT GAVE POWER AND FORCE TO THE PAST MESSAGES THAT HAVE COME TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD. (Preach the Word, p. 5 -1905). {CW 32.2}
“What influence is it that would lead men at this stage of our history to work in an underhanded, powerful way to tear down the foundation of our faith,-the foundation that was laid at the beginning of our work by prayerful study of the word and by revelation? Upon this foundation we have been building for the past FIFTY YEARS. Do you wonder that when I see the beginning of a work that would remove some of the PILLARS OF OUR FAITH, I have something to say? I must obey the command, ‘Meet it!’” {EGW, SpTB02 58.1; 1904}
But EGW became an Apostate in 1844
How ironic because the SDA has been an apostasy since day one.
@@alongcamejones309I am very intrigued by her story starting from that incident where she was hit in the head with a rock as a child and based on the description of her symptoms she most likely sustained a brain injury. I am very curious how that injury could have been the origin of her visions.
Sad that not one Bible verse is quoted here....
That last question was the best question. Not too long at all.
I suggest on your next podcast to use scripture and base your opinion base on that, because our opinion doesnt matter, what matter is what God said, because i can see specialy on the post interview that, i can hear is your opinion and no scripture, sorry to say that it can lead to misunderstanding, we seventh-Day adventist believe on sola scriptura. And the Bible said that the spirit will lead us into ALL TRUTH.
Man I feel like this comment should be based on scripture
I think i know where the divide is, and Pastor Wilson has driven the point, never diverted, it is the fact that you think/call yourselves Liberal. You should only be cbristian is all that the Pastor said. The Holy Spirit would tell you. And HE always tell me. Maybe, you need more years and more experience to know GOD fully amd truthfully!
Dang, well first I identify as a cbristian, so that’s good. Second, glad you got that special connection to the Spirit that no liberals have!
I think as Christians we need to always pray for guidance and direction from the Holy Spirit before. We start on any topics over the internet in church wherever pray first that the Lord will guide and direct you.
When and before you speak?
Very balanced answers. The balance is seeking the Lord Jesus Christ through His Word and be willing to follow His instruction and His voice. As He told Joshua, in so many words…I will be with you and never forsake you…only read My Words and be obedient to them. And everything you do, you will be successful. Just two simple principles. Read and meditate on My Words everyday and obey them. So easy. Can be done through the power of the HS.
Iam thankful that God saved me by the finished and completed work of the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. He saves FOREVER
I’ll be at Loma Linda this weekend! Be great to hang with you guys! Great show. Well done. You remind me of me when I was 30 something. I wasted the next 25 years following the false hope that the church would change. I promise you it will not. Run! lol. 🎉🎉🎉
Talk with Walter Vieth of Clash of Minds.
He has a strong view about SDA leaderships.
My fear with having certain conversations is that we talk ourselves into certain positions as opposed to following the Bible as God directs us. For example, God told us directly that women were a helpmeet, not the head. This is not a put down to woman. It is what God said. The man is the head as Christ is the head of the church. There have been multiple occasions when God used women in positions of leadership when it is called for. Can a women preach. Yes she can. However, a woman must follow the direction God gave and it was not one of leadership in the pulpit. When we walk in our own way, it always lead to trouble. We are too close to the end now not to get it right.
Yes, the preaching pulpit that God created for all times and peoples should never have a woman in it!
Hey there friend, appreciate your thoughts! To your concern about having certain conversations and then talking ourselves into certain positions; that’s fair! Sometimes we can convince ourselves of almost anything right? However we believe in the power of honest, genuine conversations to lead us back to the Bible and following Jesus better. That’s our goal here.
Also, sometimes we simply “assume” things are in the Bible, because they have been tradition or part of church doctrine or language for so long, when, in reality if we took a closer look we’d see we’re the ones not being faithful to the text! Or, that the scripture in the original language isn’t as simple or black and white as we previously thought. Sometimes things (like the women in ministry issue you brought up) are way more complex than we were originally taught. So it’s important to us to have open dialogue.
As the text goes, “If we walk in the light as He is in the light, and have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Christ Jesus will cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:7💛
Ellen White prophesied everything you’re talking about! Narrow is the way folks!
You mention having a different view than Elder Wilson when it come to the writings of Ellen White...what is your opinion of her writings? Also have you read The Conflict Series, Steps to Christ? I ask the second question because I feel like many people say, Ellen White was not inspired...and then I ask, "which of her books have you read." Then I hear crickets. And so I am interested to hear what the four of you think concerning Ellen Whites writings and also to hear how much of her writings have each of you read? I realize obviously the answer to these questions will vary.
She was indeed not inspired
Hey Stephen! Just circling around to comments and appreciate your thoughts and questions brother. In response first off we did an episode on Ellen White awhile back that contained a lot of our thoughts at the time. I know perhaps all of us have shifted a bit since then but that’s a good starting point.
Second off we all have read her writings (Great Controversy, Desire of the Ages, Steps to Christ, Patriarchs and Prophets, Christ Object Lessons, Education, are the main ones I’ve read) and we all believe she had a prophetic gift from the Holy Spirit. I think what we meant about having a different view is the way in which someone views her prophetic gift, right? You went to seminary just as I, so you know we do not teach or believe in verbal inspiration. And yet many Adventists treat EGW with a verbal inspiration hermeneutic. Also, what does it mean to be prophetic or have the gift of prophecy?
Not every Adventist agrees on what this looks like, and there are intellectually and theologically valid approaches that differ from Elder Wilson’s. That was the sort of thing we meant. Not everyone agrees with how EGW ought to be used in the church, so what do we do? Who decides (and enforces) which view is more true? Even if we agree that “a prophet shall be tested by their fruits,” different people emphasize different fruits. These are the questions we’re wrestling with! Anyway much love brother always, appreciate your thoughts! - Anthony 💛
Romans 14:5
Let each one be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Can you interview also David Gates please.
Yes, Scripture must be allowed to interpret Scripture. example; Revelation interprets Daniel. shalom.
The general conference had an opportunity to share the health message with the world during covid but didn’t. We had the opportunity to share our faith with the world during those times. Now we are going to have to work in a harder time. The general conference needs to separate from Babylon.
Thank goodness they’re based in Maryland and not ancient Mesopotamia
@@jessechurchill7027 if you say so
What millions members of the General Conference Seventh Day Adventist don't know is that, they thoughts that this current GC SDA church is in it true condition when it was established in 1863. The truth is that this current General Conference SDA church is in gross apostasy with its leadership. That is why the pastors and the members are using the News King James Version bible NKJV: the book of Satan, and the new logo and the new hymnbook that belonged to Satan. The GC SDA church had cross the gulf and grasp the hands of popes, the right hand of Satan. More can be add...
Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. 1SM 204.2, Selected Messages Boook 1.
Ellen White Has Warned that Changes Would Take Place:
“The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error.”- Ellen White, {1SM 204.2}
THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE WAS WRITTEN IN 1903 FOLLOWED BY THE 25 FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES WHICH SHE SAID WOULD BE ACCOUNTED AS “ERROR”.
“The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES THAT HAVE SUSTAINED THE WORK FOR THE LAST FIFTY YEARS WOULD BE ACCOUNTED AS ERROR. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. {1SM 204.2} Letter 242, October 19, 1903
“Who has authority to begin such a movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? {1SM 205.1}
“I hesitated and delayed about the sending out of that which the Spirit of the Lord impelled me to write. I did not want to be compelled to present the misleading influence of these sophistries. But in the providence of God, the errors that have been coming in must be met.” {1SM 205.2}
What did she say would happen?
1. The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists.
2. This reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization.
3. The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded.
4. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error.
5. A “new organization” would be established. Books of a new order would be written.
6. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced.
7. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed (original concept of One God is removed and was replaced with One God means trinity), they would place their dependence on human power.
8. It’s worth noting that of all the “fundamental principles” Seventh-day Adventist church has held when Ellen White wrote those words, the only notable doctrine that the modern SDA church counts it as being an error is the very doctrine that the church pioneers have held that deals with the personality of God.
“The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith.- Ellen White {1SM 204.2}
“I have been instructed to warn our people; for MANY ARE IN DANGER of receiving theories and sophistries that undermine the FOUNDATION PILLARS OF THE FAITH.” {Selected Messages bk. 1 p.196, 1904}
“The Lord has declared that the history of the past shall be rehearsed as we enter upon the closing work. Every truth that He has given for these last days is to be proclaimed to the world. Every pillar that He has established is to be strengthened. We cannot now step off the foundation that God has established. We cannot now enter into any NEW ORGANIZATION; for this would mean apostasy from the truth.”-Manuscript 129, 1905. {2SM 390.1}
“What influence is it would lead men at this stage of our history to work in an underhand, powerful way to tear down the foundation of our faith-the foundation that was laid at the beginning of our work by prayerful study of the Word and by revelation? Upon this foundation we have been building for the past fifty years. Do you wonder that when I see the beginning of a work that would remove some of the pillars of our faith, I have something to say? I must obey the command, “MEET IT!”…
“I must bear the messages of warning that God gives me to bear, and then leave with the Lord the results. I must now present the matter in all its bearings; for the people of God must not be despoiled.
“We are God’s commandment-keeping people. For the past fifty years every phase of heresy has been brought to bear upon us, to becloud our minds regarding the teaching of the Word-especially concerning the ministration of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary, and the message of Heaven for these last days, as given by the angels of the fourteenth chapter of Revelation. Messages of every order and kind have been urged upon Seventh-day Adventists, to take the place of the truth which, point by point, has been sought out by prayerful study, and testified to by the miracle-working power of the Lord. But the waymarks which have made us what we are, are to be preserved, and they will be preserved, as God has signified through His Word and the testimony of His Spirit. He calls upon us to hold firmly, with the grip of faith, to the fundamental principles that are based upon unquestionable authority.” 1SM 207.3-208.2
Note: When she wrote all of these warnings, Seventh-day Adventist Church was a non-trinitarian denomination and the Fundamental Principles (Specifically # 1 and #2 dealing with the personality of God) of the church were published in the church’s yearbook from 1889 until it was changed and was published again in 1931 and later officially voted in 1980.
Thank you very much....
God bless you
Adventists have a righteousness that relys on obedience to the covenant ten commandments.
The investigative judgement can remove the poor sevy at any time for unconfessed sin
Grace is conditional as the sevy is on probation.
Thank God l was thought by the Sweet Holy Spirit that we are Christians even before we are an Adventist. We accept Christ first then we join the Chuch.
Just another denomination that has its own interpretation of the Bible .
Everybody knows that he Bible is not for private interpretation and if ever there is any contradiction in that interpretation from Genesis to Revelation it is wrong .
Part 1 of 2 - As I started watching this interview I thought ‘here we go. A group of soy boys about to bow and scrape to the president’ but as I persisted and then continued and began to enjoy the interview I noticed that I had mischaracterised these hosts. The questions - even after constant deflecting and diverting from Ted Wilson - kept coming and the hosts kept bringing the side stepping back into line. Reiterating and gently pressuring their guest. I appreciated that. And the reality is, in answer to their questions about if their was ‘wriggle room’ for more diverse interpretations of truth, that their is not wriggle room. Ted Wilson has lead exactly as his father did. And anyone who presents a dissenting view is cleverly ‘axed’ in one way or another. Look at recent history (I’m sure you young bucks know all about the WO vote and the Compliance Document! But go back to Glacier View and the kangaroo trial of Dr Des Ford. You’ll see how the church treats people who hold a different perspective on church theology etc. The fact is, and you four I’m sure won’t agree with me but I’ll say it for your subconscious minds to absorb, the adventist church is in great error with regards to the gospel. And there was a time when things could have fallen in line with the Bible (glacier view - very the majority voted in favour of Des. But Neale Wilson brought in a last minute statement that wasn’t even brought to the group let alone voted on). And then history is re written with leadership literally saying - no, the majority voted against Des Ford. This was a blatant lie! And that’s how the church treats people who want some ‘wriggle room’. This is a shiny but dangerous religion. More dangerous than most. Beware my fine young hosts. And thank you for being brave enough to prove me wrong! You sent soy boys and you held the line. Well done. I’d advise you watch my Season 2, Episode 1 with Dr William G. Johnsson. You’ll be astounded with what you learn. If you have ears to learn and eyes to see. It’s on RUclips. I’m sure you won’t write back. But I hope you get to read this. And I hope deep down you see the never to be resolved flaws of adventism. If it simply didn’t have the gospel I’d say no worries. But adventism is anti-gospel. And destroys young lives like yours.
There are so many Adventists that move throughout the many circles of Christendom, welcomed as fellow believers and followers of Christ. Christians like NT Wright, Greg Boyd, Michael Card, and others actually hold to some non-traditional beliefs similar to Adventists. If people don't agree that Adventist doctrine is all valid, I totally understand. But I don't buy this notion that somehow Adventists are clueless about the gospel, to a greater extent than other Christian denominations. I've gone to many different church services in and out of Adventism and the essence of what's being preached in terms of the central gospel is the same. We're all learning and growing, finding the ever sweeter and purer good news that comes from an all-loving God. It feels like anti-Adventists of this vein are trying to leverage the gospel to narrow who can qualify as Christian. It makes me wonder how many other denominations and other flavors of Christianity also don't measure up as orthodox Christianity by these standards.
We have been told, that the organization will collapse before there is the final unity of God's people. shalom.
Who says that? Ellen White doesn’t, neither does the Bible
It has been said that “what we do is more important than what we say or what we say we believe.” Therefore, doctrines, prophecies & beliefs are of minor significance. “The essence of faith is fewness of words & abundance of deeds.” Christ seems to give more importance to actions like visiting the sick than uttering the doctrine “Lord, Lord.” Adventists do that & I have affection for them!!
What SDA historians say about our own church history:
“Some Adventists today think, that our beliefs have remained unchanged over the years, or they seek to turn back the clock to some point when we had everything just right. But all attempts to recover such “historic Adventism” fail in view of the facts of our heritage.” (Adventist Review Jan 6, 1994 p. 10, written by William G. Johnsson, Editor of the Adventist Review, Article “Present Truth - Walking in God’s Light”.)
“Adventist beliefs have changed over the years under the impact of ‘present truth’. Most startling is the teaching regarding Jesus Christ, our Saviour and Lord. Many of the pioneers, including James White, J. N. Andrews, Uriah Smith and J. H. Waggoner, held to an Arian or semi-Arian view-that is the Son at some point in time before the creation of our world was generated by the Father… Likewise, the Trinitarian understanding of God, now part of our fundamental beliefs was not generally held by the early Adventists. Even a few today do not subscribe to it.” (ibid)
After 70yrs of being raised/educated within the Adventist system I can see that unity is not achievable. I do appreciate ur attempt to ask a “soft” question of Elder Wilson…it is “a” relevant question still. However it is not “the” question. Let’s go to scripture “who do u say that I am?”…is still the relevant question of our time to the final days. “Having the form of godliness but denying the power there of.
True Godliness isn’t about being a “seventh-day Catholic” nor following our own spiritual biases thinking there is anything holy/righteous within ourselves.
Humanities salvation is found in The Holy One…Christ Our Righteousness. “While we were yet sinners Christ died for us” (the ungodly) Rom 5.
Please allow me to state what’s obvious to me… When Christ died He died as all mankind/humanity. He died as me and u. All humanity was wrapping up in Him. This truth does NOT require me to like/accept/believe. Once saved always saved” is an objective truth that can not be added to nor subtracted from based on my interpretation of scripture. This is justification by faith. “The fires of hell were intended for Satan and his angels only.” “Humanity was predestined to be saved.”)
If I elect to NOT reject The Holy Spirit of God my salvation is assured in Christ. The HS is constantly attempting to bring me/us back into this covenantal relationship. This is sanctification…the work of a lifetime.
The Adventist crime began back in our history 1888 and another opportunity was granted to correct the errors in the 1950’s with the Barnhouse Martin charade. We failed that opportunity again. We’re told by EGW that if Christ stood before the leadership at that time they would crucify Him a fresh. Let’s not deceive ourselves into thinking that we’re not part of the bank robbery (crime scene) just because we’re driving the get-away car.
The HS was commissioned by our risen Savior for a significant reason…to see Christ as He really is fully as the Son of God (God in carnal humanity) in order to become our High Priest etc
There’s a finale approaching that is found within the sanctuary-service teaching biblically…the day of atonement. When Christ died He took our guilt shame condemnation and our 2nd death. Sin - the remission of sins it’s power and presents was defeated. (I realize we haven’t experienced sin’s presents to be removed yet but it will come also.
Now that the curtain has been torn from top to bottom (as Bro Wilson alluded) let us enter in to the MH Place with boldness where the purification process can be completed in each of us vs. “ they would not enter in because of their unbelief.”
As Paul stated…present Jesus Christ and Him crucified or it’s not The Gospel all.
Who do u say that I am.
Salvation is not of Works... by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight'
Just very interesting that hw said he is from Egypt cause thats exactly where the church is heading..Just wondering why he is sitting at the head if he has no impact on the confusion among Gods people. That position should be for Christ alone, afterall he himself have to seek Christ for the answer.
What? Wait... Elder Wilson said (21:00 aprox) that if the Sabbath wasn't directly related to a literal 7-day creation then what would be the point of the Sabbath. Well.... the 4th commandment... The Sabbath commandment would be the point of the Sabbath. I'm sure he just misspoke.
IMHO Wilson was saying “ if one is an evolutionist and thus not a creation … 7 day creation then the seventh day doesn’t fit Thus don’t be an evolutionist and try to keep the Sabbath!
Merlin Burt (Professor of Church History, Director, Center for Adventist Research, Andrews Theological Seminary) wrote about the history of trinitarianism in SDA:
“One of the remarkable aspects of the history of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the development of the position of the trinity and the deity of Christ. These doctrines did not become normative in the church until the middle of the twentieth century”. (Merlin Burt, ‘Demise of Semi-Arianism and anti-trinitarianism in Adventist theology, 1888-1957 page iv ‘Preface’)
He further explains,
“The church gradually shifted during from the 1930s to 1950s to the ‘orthodox’ Christian view on the trinity and deity of Christ. . . . During the 1940s an ever increasing majority of the church was believing in the eternal underived deity of Christ and the trinity, yet there were some who held back even actively resisted the change.” (Ibid, pages 47-48)
A Brief Summary of Trinity in Adventism
1) The church did not have an official directly voted upon trinity doctrine for the first 117 years of its existence (from 1863 to 1980). There was no corporate study ever done upon the subject by the general conference and it was only in the year 1980 that the church actually directly voted on the subject. The 1931 statement was adopted by default at the 1946 conference. Even to this day the church, at large, is in great confusion about this doctrine and it needs to be studied out officially.
2) Though Ellen White came out of Methodist church (which was a trinitarian denomination), in her approximately 25 million words she carefully avoided the word, “trinity” to describe God even though she had plenty of opportunity to do so and clearly knew the word. She did however used the word just once to denote three fleshly desires mentioned in 1 John 2:15-17:
“This warning now comes to you, and what will you do with it? Will you say, “Have no fear of me?” But beware of that which the old writers called the world’s trinity-the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. If you trifle and tamper with these, they will prove your ruin. Unless you are born again, unless your objectionable hereditary tendencies are changed, unless purity and sanctification work a transformation in your lives, your barque will be shipwrecked, your souls lost. {Lt43-1898.25}
Furthermore, we know that she has read trinitarian authors (i.e. W. E. Boardman, John Harris) and even used their wording at times but she never once described God as a “trinity” or spoke of a “triune God” or used the term, “God” to mean “a unity of 3 persons” nor any other expression that alluded to a God of plurality. What would you call someone who never did that? Non-trinitarian seems like a reasonable expression. Instead, she said “God is a [numerically singular] person”:
“I have often seen the lovely Jesus, that He is a person. I asked Him if His Father was a person and had a form like Himself. Said Jesus, “I am in the express image of My Father’s person.” {EW 77.1}
-1850s Ellen White said Christ and His Father are personal beings with Tangible forms (This counters the Methodist’s creedal articles of faith, as well as Catholic’s creed) which made God formless: “There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body or parts,”)
-1869, She said Christ was equal with God; here, she forged ahead of her contemporaries in this assertion.
-1872 She said, Christ was not a created being like the angels.
-1890s Coinciding with the publishing of the book, The Desire of Ages, Testimonies bore more clearly concerning the divinity of Christ and the personhood of the Holy Spirit.
The truth is the Bible and what leads to our salvation. If the wiggle room is to stray from the Bible teachings, then we room into trouble.
Great podcast guys you should go check out another adventist podcast too. Its called answering adventism and its about apolagetics. Make sure to go check it out
The reasons for lethargy in sharing SDA / biblical beliefs are many- but primarily because the church is locked into the idea of once a week preaching.
Teaching is relegated to sabbath school classes (which many miss in a number of ways).
What is needed is to let go of total reliance on sermonizing alone. Rather- a focus on learning should be the means of understanding biblical & SOP truths.
Why isn’t our format more like college classrooms?
Desks should replace pews.
Engagement should replace a weekend sermon & song entertainment system.
Imagine a church where you actually learned & had the opportunity to ‘test’ yourself on what you had learned.
Weekly sabbath sermons are obviously not achieving the goals of the church to spread the gospel.
This is the only way to get past the idea of thinking you know the doctrines- when in reality you do not
The church as a classroom! Help us Lord. This sounds like discipleship to me. what would happen if we as a church were discipled and were then sent to make disciples of men?
Thank you
We should not practice ourselves to say or separate these two words : Anathema Maranatha
If we really love ourselves and others
& we must not compromise
Really liked the commentary at the end. So totally agree with a more inclusive tone would be unifying.
What Ellen White has said about the church pioneers and the pillars of our faith:
“As a people, we are to stand firm on the platform of eternal truth that has withstood test and trial. WE ARE TO HOLD TO THE SURE PILLARS OF OUR FAITH. The principles of truth that God has revealed to us are our only true foundation. They have made us what we are. THE LAPSE OF TIME HAS NOT LESSENED THEIR VALUE. . .” (Ellen G. White, Selected Messages Vol 1 pg. 201) {1SM p. 201}
“Let Pioneers Identify Truth.-When the power of God testifies as to what is truth, that truth is to stand forever as the truth. No aftersuppositions, contrary to the light God has given are to be entertained. Men will arise with interpretations of Scripture which are to them truth, but which are not truth. The truth for this time, God has given us as a foundation for our faith. He Himself has taught us what is truth. One will arise, and still another, with new light which contradicts the light that God has GIVEN UNDER THE DEMONSTRATION OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT.” (Counsels to Writers and Editors, 1905, p. 31)
“We are NOT to receive the words of those who come with a message THAT CONTRADICTS THE SPECIAL POINTS OF OUR FAITH. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again DURING THE PAST FIFTY YEARS. And while the Scriptures are God’s word, and are to be respected, the application of them, IF SUCH APPLICATION MOVES ONE PILLAR FROM THE FOUNDATION THAT GOD HAS SUSTAINED THESE FIFTY YEARS, IS A GREAT MISTAKE. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the HOLY SPIRIT THAT GAVE POWER AND FORCE TO THE PAST MESSAGES THAT HAVE COME TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD.”-Preach the Word, p. 5 (1905). {CW 32.2}
“I do not wish to ignore or drop one link in the chain of evidence that was formed as, after the passing of the time in 1844, little companies of seekers after truth met together to study the Bible and to ask God for light and guidance. . . . The truth, point by point, was fastened in our minds so firmly that we could not doubt. . . .The evidence given in our early experience has the same force that it had then. The TRUTH IS THE SAME AS IT EVER HAS BEEN, AND NOT A PIN OR A PILLAR CAN BE MOVED from the structure of truth. That which was sought for out of the Word in 1844, 1845, and 1846 remains the truth in every particular.” (Letter 38, 1906, pp. 1,2 [MS])
“The truths given us after the passing of the time in 1844 are just as certain and unchangeable as when the Lord gave them to us in answer to our urgent prayers. The visions that the Lord has given me are so remarkable that we know that what we have accepted is the truth. THIS WAS DEMONSTRATED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. Light, precious light from God, established the main points of our faith AS WE HOLD THEM TODAY.” (Letter 50, p. 3, par. 4 [1906 MS])
“At this time many efforts will be made to unsettle our faith in the sanctuary question; but we must not waver. Not a pin is to be moved from the foundations of our faith. Truth is still truth. Those who become uncertain will drift into erroneous theories, and will finally find themselves infidel in regard to the past evidence we have had of what is truth. The OLD WAYMARKS MUST BE PRESERVED, that we lose not our bearings.” (Letters 395, 1906, p. 4 [1906MS])
“MANY OF OUR PEOPLE DO NOT REALIZE HOW FIRMLY THE FOUNDATIONS OF OUR FAITH HAS BEEN LAID. My husband, Elder Joseph Bates, Father Pierce, [Older brethren among the pioneers are here thus reminiscently referred to. “Father Pierce” was Stephen Pierce, who served in ministerial and administrative work in the early days.] Elder [Hiram] Edson, and others who were keen, noble, and true, were among those who, after the passing of the time in 1844, searched for the truth as for hidden treasure. I met with them, and we studied and prayed earnestly. Often we remained together until late at night, and sometimes through the entire night, praying for light and studying the Word. Again and again these brethren came together to study the Bible, in order that they might know its meaning, and be prepared to teach it with power. When they came to the point in their study where they said, “we can do nothing more,’ the Spirit of the Lord would come upon me, I would be taken off in vision, and a clear explanation of the passages we had been studying would be given me, with instruction as to how we were to labor and teach effectively. Thus light was given that helped us to understand the scriptures IN REGARD TO CHRIST, HIS MISSION, AND HIS PRIESTHOOD. A LINE OF TRUTH EXTENDING FROM THAT TIME TO THE TIME WHEN WE SHALL ENTER THE CITY OF GOD, WAS MADE PLAIN TO ME, and I gave to others the instruction that the Lord had given me. {EW xxii.4} (RH, May 25, 1905 par. 24)
“. . . The truths that we have been proclaiming for more than half a century have been contested again and again. Again and again the facts of faith have been disputed; but every time the Lord has established the truth BY THE WORKING OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT. Those who have arisen to question and overthrow the principles of 7 present truth, have been sternly rebuked.” (Letter 95, 1905) Note: this is after Desire of Ages was published.” {10MR 45.2}
The time has come when things must be called by their right names. The truth is to triumph gloriously, and those who have long been halting between two opinions must take their stand decidedly for or against the law of God. Some will take up with theories that misinterpret the Word of God and undermine the foundation of the truth that has been firmly established, point by point, AND SEALED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. The old truths are to be revived, in order that the false theories that have been brought in by the enemy may be intelligently met. There can be no unity between truth and error. We can unite with those who have been led into deception only when they are converted. {Lt121-1905.10}
“What influence is it would lead men at this stage of our history to work in an underhand, powerful way to tear down the foundation of our faith - the foundation that was laid at the beginning of our work by prayerful study of the Word and by revelation? UPON THIS FOUNDATION WE HAVE BEEN BUILDING FOR THE PAST FIFTY YEARS. Do you wonder that when I see the beginning of a work that would remove some of the pillars of our faith, I have something to say? I must obey the command, “Meet it!”…” 1SM 207.3
“We are God’s commandment-keeping people. FOR THE PAST FIFTY YEARS every phase of heresy has been brought to bear upon us, to becloud our minds regarding the teaching of the Word - especially concerning the ministration of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary, and the message of Heaven for these last days, as given by the angels of the fourteenth chapter of Revelation. Messages of every order and kind have been urged upon Seventh-day Adventists, to take the place of THE TRUTH WHICH, POINT BY POINT, HAS BEEN SOUGHT OUT BY PRAYERFUL STUDY, AND TESTIFIED TO BY THE MIRACLE-WORKING POWER OF THE LORD. But the waymarks which have made us what we are, are to be preserved, and they will be preserved, as God has signified through His Word and the testimony of His Spirit. He calls upon us to hold firmly, with the grip of faith, to the FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES THAT ARE BASED UPON UNQUESTIONABLE AUTHORITY.” {1SM 208.2-1903}
Truth is progressive and we continue to learn throughout eternity. These quotes do not negate clarity and a deeper understanding. Many misuse passages and are taken out of context.
The Lord’s servant has said, “WE ARE TO HOLD FAST TO THE FIRST PRINCIPLES OF OUR DENOMINATED FAITH.” These principles of faith, she said, were “SOUGHT OUT BY PRAYERFUL STUDY, AND TESTIFIED TO BY THE MIRACLE-WORKING POWER OF THE LORD” and that they were “BASED UPON UNQUESTIONABLE AUTHORITY” and ”THAT WHICH THE HOLY SPIRIT TESTIFIED TO AS TRUTH…”
We would say that these are pretty strong endorsements coming from the Messenger of the Lord. Again and again Ellen White implored the believers to hold fast to the “foundation of our faith,” which the church pioneers have so firmly laid. She recalls that “A line of truth extending from that time [1844] to the time when we shall enter the city of God, was made plain to me”. This shows that God had given to Ellen White all the necessary pillars of truth which our church needed from the time she was writing forward until “we shall enter the city of God.”
It is also worth noting that these statements were written between 1903 and 1905. The latest fundamental principles extant at that time were the 1889, and they wouldn’t be amended again until 1931. This is significant because many within the church believe that the SDA Church’s non-trinitarian position has already shifted toward trinitarianism in the year which coincided with the publishing of Ellen White’s book, The Desire of Age in 1898.
She added,
“WHEN MEN WHO COME IN WHO WOULD MOVE ONE PIN OR PILLAR FROM THE FOUNDATION WHICH GOD HAS ESTABLISHED BY HIS HOLY SPIRIT, LET THE AGED MEN WHO WERE PIONEERS IN OUR WORK SPEAK PLAINLY, AND LET THOSE WHO ARE DEAD SPEAK ALSO, BY THE REPRINTING OF THEIR ARTICLES IN OUR PERIODICALS. Gather up the rays of divine light that God has given as He has led His people on step by step in the way of truth. This truth will stand the test of time and trial. - Manuscript 62, 1905, 6.” (“A Warning against False Theories,” May 24, 1905.) {1MR 55.1}
The truths that have been substantiated by the manifest working of God are to stand fast. Let no one presume to move a pin or a foundation stone from the structure. THOSE WHO ATTEMPT TO UNDERMINE THE PILLARS OF OUR FAITH ARE AMONG THOSE OF WHO THE BIBLE SAYS THAT ‘IN THE LATTER TIMES SOME SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH, GIVING HEED TO SEDUCING SPIRITS, AND DOCTRINES OF DEVILS.’” Letter 87, 1905, pp. 2, 3. (To Elder and Mrs. S. N. Haskell, February 25, 1905.) {1MR 55.2}
“Those who seek to remove the old landmarks are not holding fast; they are not remembering how they have received and heard. Those who try to bring in theories that would remove the pillars of our faith concerning the sanctuary or concerning the personality of God or of Christ are working as blind men. They are seeking to bring in uncertainties and to set the people of God adrift without an anchor. {YRP 235.3}. “A Warning Against False Theories,” May 24, 1905.) {MR760 12.2}
“A liar is one that presents false theories and doctrines. He who denies the personality of God and of His Son Jesus Christ is denying God and Christ. ‘If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son and in the Father.’ If you continue to believe and obey the truths you first embraced regarding the personality of the Father and the Son, you will be joined together with them in love.”
[Ms 23-1906.20]
Please note that “the sanctuary or concerning the personality of God or of Christ” are referred as “the pillars of our faith” and that they are also regarded as part of the “old landmarks” which Ellen White warned would change. Significantly, it is the very Fundamental Principles that has to do with the “personality of God or of Christ” is what did change from what the Pioneers previously believed to what the modern SDA church believes now
your denomination will not save you. please repent and turn to Jesus alone, be set free in Jesus name
The second guy really seems like he has issues with what the church teaches. I have no idea who he is, but as a person who came into the faith at 22, and having studied the teachings of the church; our beliefs are Biblically Sound. I appreciate that there are questions, but hopefully, it's not coming with the idea that basic truths need to change. The Rock is where we should be standing. Praying for the young man.
Aww thanks so sweet
I tend to understand the way you guys debating the issues on the the table specially as it relates to issues of truth. The question is how you understand truth.do you understand in a intellectual point of view or do you understand in a biblical perspective. As you as adventists as a biblical understanding of truth. John 17v 17. Sanctify them by the truth thy word is the truth
What could you NOT agree with what Ted Wilson said??
From a viewers perspective. It sounded like you guys all asked basically the same question in a way that sounded like you wanted Wilson to talk about some controversial things. Ask bold questions and you'll get to the truth.
Hi Emily! Appreciate your thoughts. As Jesse mentioned in our reaction portion of the episode, Elder Wilson did not allow us to ask certain questions, specifically about the women in ministry issue. Therefore, we weren’t able to ask all the “bold questions” we had hoped because he did not allow us to touch certain topics. That may have been why it felt like we were harping on the unity issue. (And we wanted to be respectful). That issue is a bit of a microcosm and related to basically any of the other issues.
Also, we were pretty up front at the end with the things we disagreed with! Asking those bold questions you mentioned is why we started this series and we hope you stick with us! Thank you for listening! 💛
Says it all! What sort of culture or leader doesn’t allow certain questions?
I don’t see God saying to Abraham, Moses, Job etc ‘you are not allowed to ask me certain difficult questions.’ @@seekingwhattheysought8247
Pretentious people think they know.
The KJV Holy Bible says, they are fools. Do not do surgical reading but study it. Ask the Holy Spirit to guide and give you wisdom. Surrender and cleanse your heart. Do fasting, let the Lord Jesus Christ give you understanding to learn his words for you. Do not just listen to other experts, open the KJV Holy Bible by yourself.,.,.
This is a nice Ted Talk.
Question. If we have a personal relationship with Jesus and receive the Spirit when reading the bible. Should we not then understand everything of the bible? John 16:13 it sounds a bit of a cop out to me when we claim God will give us understanding but it looks like our own collective "acceptable" knowledge on bible interpretation.
@unmistakablymelissa but if the bible tells us to rely on God for all truth. But then we up hold a book we only know 60% of what it is saying as the word of God. Does this not seem counter productive and part of the reason for so much confusion and misinterpretation of the bible?
@@ThatLee4 one should not expect to know all the truths contained in God's word, especially at the beginning of their walk with Him. the promise of our Lord and Savior is that He, the Spirit of Truth, will guide you into all truth. guide or lead is the same meaning, a process, a revealing, just as when a young man and woman become interested in each other, neither knows all about the other at first, and sometimes even after many years. but i will use two biblical examples. Paul in 1 Corinthians 3:1-10 tells the church there that he has had to speak to them not as in to spiritual terms but carnal(meaning earthly terms) because they were not able to bear it and where not even still. many times spiritual truths come to us when we are able to not only understand it but grasp it, eat it, take it into ourselves to make it real and living in our lives. Jesus Himself told the 12 in John 16:12, "there are many things i have to tell you, but you cannot bear them now." the 2nd is the case of the visions of Daniel in chapters 8-12. in chapter 8 Daniel tells of the vision of the ram and he-goat, and the sanctuary being cleansed after 2300 prophetic days, literal years. Daniel, becomes ill for days, not eating good for weeks and in chapter 9 continues the story. in 9 he starts with him understanding the 70 years of captivity prophesied by Jeremiah 29:10-14. the time is then and he wonders why it hasn't come about. to get to point i want to make, Gabriel comes to him to explain some of the vision from chapter 8, and that vision did not pertain to the 70 year captivity but to a future event that was to come at the time of the end, and gave him the starting time which was also the beginning of the countdown of the 70 weeks of years, the 490 years for the Jews, the coming of the Messiah and His death. and in following chapters Gabriel comes back to further explain future events. i know this speaks of Daniel and his visions, but the principle is the same. Daniel, who Gabriel says is a man greatly beloved in heaven and by God, with all his wisdom did not understand all the vision. i can only tell you from my experience that there have been scriptures i thought i knew because i've read them several times before and then, God reveals something else in that same scripture i've never seen. so it is with truth, sometimes it's bit by bit, something you never saw before, just as times when you may not understand why something happens the way it did, or understand something in the bible and take it to God asking of Him, and the answer doesn't come then, the next day, week, month even years. God promises us answers, but not on our time, but His. i can tell you even when He gives you the answer, even years later, decades later, He lets you know He's answered that prayer because He will remind you of that prayer, He brings it to you remembrance. at least that's how it has been with me.
What millions members of the General Conference Seventh Day Adventist don't know is that, they thoughts that this current GC SDA church is in it true condition when it was established in 1863. The truth is that this current General Conference SDA church is in gross apostasy with its leadership. That is why the pastors and the members are using the News King James Version bible NKJV: the book of Satan, and the new logo and the new hymnbook that belonged to Satan. The GC SDA church had cross the gulf and grasp the hands of popes, the right hand of Satan. More can be add...
Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. 1SM 204.2, Selected Messages Boook 1.
A wonderful program. Somehow I feel a bit of cynicism about your conclusion about Pastor Ted Wilson. He’s reply to what is truth. Truth is absolute. It’s not dependent upon anyone’s interpretation. Jesus is Truth. Every word He spoke is Truth. That why I believe , Pastor Wilson , kept showing the gospel method of Truth , which is the basic principle of our salvation………… speaking of interpretations is another story , there’s also no private interpretation. So where do we go , Again only to the bible, which interprets itself……………… where are we now….. stock between a rock and a hard place . Where’s the wiggle. ?? None . The scripture will alo be unchangable. I am 86 years old. Now you might say, On now I see; she is just one of the old stock in there ways SDA.. Well , I don’t feel that way. I am all for Chang, traditions that are not biblically based, but makes the church look sanctimonious , can go. Some music besides the hymnal can be accessible, And perhaps other things can be discussed. However to allow everyone to say “ I have new light, probably because I am more educated and have a Dr degree. Can’t work , only education sanctified by the power of the HolySpirit is real. Many of the ones wanting change needs to go to God in earnest. Denying all self interest and preconceived ideas. Speak confess surrender . Then ask God for wisdom. I believe you probably would arise , not wanting nothing else but closer walk with God. We to close to heaven now. To be consumed w change . When the change we mostly need is a converted heart. Young people , I sincerely 🥰 love you all. There is to much pressure on you at this time…. Church members are so critical and judgmental that it sometimes make you feel like running. We don’t; Jesus loves you as you are, stay with Him, He will do the adjustments. Give everything to Him …………….. much love 💕 JK Winning Canada 🇨🇦
What a nice comment. Thanks for your thoughts
Really appreciate your thoughts Jean! You mentioned, “truth is absolute,” and while we agree truth (Jesus said He was the Truth) is absolute, our perspectives on truth are not. That was something we mentioned in our discussion after. That no matter how hard we try to simply “pursue the truth,” we will inevitably be subject to personal and (especially) cultural bias as to how to interpret and practice truth. It is inescapable. We all make assumptions and have ideas “beneath” our theology that are difficult to escape, even someone claiming to “simply be following the truth.” Not trying to be combative at all, but these are the things we are wrestling with! It’s tough right!
Anyway much gratitude for your thoughts, thank you for listening!😊💛
Truth is progressive... we will learn throughout eternity. When you think you've arrived...think again :)
Good afternoon brethren, is it possible I could get one of the great controversy .please
Never does the Wilson family talk about Don Wilson Td’s Uncle and Neal’s brother.. Having a non-SDA family member and all that brought to their family dynamic might be an interesting topic. It might show the rest of us how to work and deal with a situation like that and humanize Ted a bit.
There are 2 Advents connected with the 7th Day/Millennium. The 2nd Advent is near, and the 3rd Advent will be at the end of the 7th Millennium. shalom.
Thanks
God did not make Robots we are given a choice choose you this day whom you will serve if God be God serve him.
The just shall live by faith
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. (Rom 10:17)
Without Faith it is impossible to please God Heb 11:6
We can not please God doing what we think or feel like doing.
We please God doing what God says.
Jesus said you are my friends if you do whatsoever I command you. (John 15:14)
And why do you call me Lord Lord and do not the things I say. (Luke 6:46)
Help us this day Holy Father to listen to voice of Jesus and follow him is my prayer in Jesus name Amen.
Even though the Adventist church on the surface has great disagreement with the Catholics the gospel of the Catholic church with it's pergitory and the Adventist Investigative Judgement both teach the same and that is the atonement of Jesus is not enough and both of these doctrines is not found in scripture
Pergitory teaches more is required by the believer to purge sins before entry into heaven.
The Investigative Judgement is to judge if the christian is fit for heaven by being perfect
Both doctrines are salvation by works and I have heard an Adventist evangelist say the investigative judgement is Adventists purgitory
LORD have mercy!
What is an Adventist? Very good question. Is an Adventist shaped by 27, no, 28 fundamental creeds? Or is an Adventist one who believes like the original Pioneers from 1844-1863, before the birth of the Conference, and who were not "Trinitarians"? Or Is an Adventist some one reads and quotes re-edited books not really written by Ellen G White, but by a committee of 5 Conference members, and the White Estate? Is an Adventist some one who does not do their own homework, but lets clergy shape their opinions instead? Is an Adventist some one who identifies with Revelation 3 and the church of Laodicea?
And what is a "Conference Adventist,"? Are they an organization that has been performing abortions in their own hospitals for over 50 years and did not tell the the members who pay tithe, about it? Is a conference Adventist some one who sends their own prophet far away to another continent against her will, when widowed and old, because they did not like what she wrote in her original books?
Is an Adventist some one, that now connects with Rome, because times have changed, even though Bible prophesy has not changed regarding the first beast of Revelation 13? Neal C Wilson, father of president Ted Wilson, had some famous words sworn under oath, about how much the SDA organization mirrored the Roman Catholic Church. The SDA now, do look very much Catholic, Shall I say, an Adventist is now Catholic?
Thanks for the Strike on my Channel! RJS
The closest thing you’ll ever read from her pen is the phrase, “three living persons of the heavenly trio.” Mrs. White seems to have gotten as close as you can to the trinity without crossing over. She appears to have remained neutral. She never rebuked the anti-trinitarian pioneers and wrote some things in harmony with them. She also never rebuked her post 1890 contemporaries who used trinitarian terminology and wrote some things (on eternality of Christ and of the personhood of the Holy Spirit) that appears to be in harmony with them including her endorsement of the Doxology. At least, in appearance, the inspiration takes a position between the two camps, supporting some aspects of each view but never embracing either holistically.
3) From 1844 till at least late 1890s the nearly unanimous position of the SDA people was non-trinitarian. This is what the church’s fundamental principles (1872-1914) indicate. Ellen White gave strong endorsements of these principles and so there must be an aspect of truth in them that should not be abandoned. But towards the late 1890s to the early 1900s, various influences from both within (Kellogg Crisis-See below) and from without the denomination (Dudley Canright being one of the principal culprit), forced the church to react and shift its position to accept the trinitarian terminologies in the more positive sense while still maintaining their non-trinitarian beliefs as far as the ontological pre-incarnate begotten Sonship and the Holy Spirit being the Spirit of the Father and the Son.
In addition, while it is accurate to say that from 1844 up until the 1930s, the consensus view was that the Son of God was begotten before incarnation; there was a shift in terms of when that occurred, with some even adopting an orthodox view (i.e. eternal generation). Moreover, even with the Ellen White’s description of the Holy Spirit as a “person” notwithstanding, the Holy Spirit was consistently viewed as the Spirit of God and Spirit of Christ within this period.
It is also between the 1950s -1970s that SDA theology started to decidedly shift toward unbegottenism (Jesus is not a begotten but a “unique” Son prior to incarnation), which is now the dominant view.
“Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. BUT THEY SAID, WE WILL NOT WALK THEREIN.” -Jeremiah 6:16
But the last verses of Ecclesiastes is an important reminder also.
🙏
“Most of the founders of Seventh-day Adventism would not be able to join the church today if they had to subscribe to the denomination’s Fundamental Beliefs. More specifically, most would not be able to agree to belief number 2, which deals with the doctrine of the trinity.” (George R. Knight-professor of church history at the Theological Seminary, Andrews University, Berrien Springs, Michigan; Ministry, October, 1993, p. 10)
“In like manner, most of the founders of Seventh-day Adventism would have trouble with fundamental belief number 4, which holds that Jesus is both eternal and truly God. For J. N. Andrews “the Son of God … had God for His Father, and did, at some point in the eternity of the past, have beginning of days.” And E. J. Waggoner, of Minneapolis 1888 fame, penned in 1890 that “there was a time when Christ proceeded forth and came from God,… but that time was so far back in the days of eternity that to finite comprehension it is practically without beginning.” (ibid)
Read the entire article from Ministry Magazine, October, 1993 issue HERE.
“The Development of the Trinity doctrine demonstrates that sometimes doctrinal changes require the passing of a previous generation. For Seventh-day Adventists, it took over 50 years for the doctrine of the Trinity to become normative.” Burt, Merlin D. (2006) “History of Seventh-day Adventist Views on the Trinity, ” Journal of the Adventist Theological Society: Vol. 17 : Iss. 1, Article 9. (P. 139)
A well-known Adventist Trinitarian Jerry Moon who was a co-author of the book The Trinity wrote:
“That most of the leading SDA pioneers were non-Trinitarian in their theology has become accepted Adventist history” {Jerry Moon “The Trinity” p. 190}
He then goes on to say,
“either the pioneers were wrong and the present church is right, or the pioneers were right and the present Seventh-day Adventist Church has apostatized from biblical truth.” - Jerry Moon, The Trinity, Chapter, Trinity and antitrinitarianism in Seventh-day Adventist history, p. 190
Adventists have a righteousness that relies on obedience to the covenant ten commandments.
The investigative judgement can remove the poor sevy at any time for unconfessed sin.
Grace is conditional as the sevy is on probation never knowing for sure if saved or not!
What is the purpose of this interview? Is it to criticize TW's answers among yourselves in the public?
To the person who said that you do not see the path to unity, I would say that God will make it happen in His own time as He did with the desciples.
While it is true that many young Aventists are leaving the church for the reasons you have mentioned in your conversation, I belive that God is bringing many who are(from outside the church) searching sincerely for truth into the church.
Why we have white and black conference. We should have one conference
Good day to all of you . Pastor Ted what can you say about these Independent Ministries all over the world. Can they still be called members of the SDA Church? Some Independent Ministries are funded by General Conference but some are not ! Are they classified as no longer members of the world church of SDA's?
Ted will personally answer this question in a youtube comment I'm sure
Seal of God is the Holy Spirit, not the keeping of the Sabbath. Read your Bible without the EGW lens folks.
God’s church went astray when the pagans came in with paganism. God wants us to be transformed into the image of Christ.
God's Sabbath is the 7thDay/Millennium. All will keep God's Sabbath, alive or dead. shalom.
Those dead people do be working six days a week
LOve the Ellen. Adventists say their is no fault in her writings.
Ellen G. White, , wrote extensively about the topic of masturbation or "self-abuse" in her books and articles. In her view, masturbation was a sin that could lead to physical and mental harm.
For example, in her book "The Healthful Living," she wrote: "The practice of self-abuse [masturbation] is a terrible sin, and one that will surely be punished, unless it is most thoroughly repented of and forsaken." She also believed that the habit of masturbation could lead to a weakened willpower, moral degradation, and a lack of self-control.
Maybe that explains the frustrated look i see in SDA`s?
How can pastor Ted pray for Latterain believe in the sop yet don't talk of the importance of 1888??
Being a hypocrite..thats what that is.
Though we are now having a few drops here and there from the latter rain no big outpouring will not happen in the wheat and tare church as it is now. It will only fall on the whole wheat church after the National Sunday Law to give power to the Loud Cry to finish up the work. The 144,000 will experience the full out pouring to finish the work similar to the Apostles at the begining of the work.
this leader already bow down to the beast. Do not depend to man in this last day. you will be deceived.
Ok endtimeslips4660
I truly agree 100% of what the Bible teaches, “Train up a child in the way he should . . . .” When the child goes astray, I think the parents did not properly trained the child. Yes, they would say, we did our best, but he turned out this way. Only God knows if you really done it right. The Bible is inspired, “when God (the Word) said it, I believe it”.
Lol, good luck with that
God is so gracious, understanding and forgiving. This is the promise to parents who they think they’ve done their best to lead their child to the Lord and yet went astray. Don’t give up to pray for your children. I fully believe that God’s word is true, because it happened in our family, my brother was restored to Christ.
Jeremiah 31:15This is what the Lord says:
“A cry is heard in Ramah-
deep anguish and bitter weeping.
Rachel weeps for her children,
refusing to be comforted-
for her children are gone.”
16But now this is what the Lord says:
“Do not weep any longer,
for I will reward you,” says the Lord.
“Your children will come back to you
from the distant land of the enemy.
17There is hope for your future,” says the Lord.
“Your children will come again to their own land 🙏
Revelation 22: 18-19