Paul Pierce says he'd win five rings with James Harden's former teammates | NBA | SPEAK FOR YOURSELF
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- The Philadelphia 76ers started off 5-0 after the blockbuster trade for James Harden, but have since dropped two out of three while in the lineup. Harden is a former MVP, but still has zero rings and Paul Pierce noticed the lack of hardware, saying quote: 'If I had the chance to play with the talent Harden that played with, I'd probably walk out of here with five championships. He played with Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant, Dwight Howard, Kyrie Irving and now Joel Embiid..' Marcellus Wiley, Emmanuel Acho and Ric Bucher debate whether Harden has underachieved or not.
#SFY #NBA #PaulPierce
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Paul Pierce says he'd win five rings with James Harden's former teammates | NBA | SPEAK FOR YOURSELF
• Paul Pierce says he'd ...
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Harden is playing ball to ball. While KD, LeBron, Kyrie are playing to win rings.
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Love how they reference 2018 but never once mentioned 2019 when KD and Iggy were out with injury and Houston was fully healthy and still loss in 6. That was a choke job
Facts how they forget that
@@tcminyc they don’t want to
They never mention it lol
Chris Paul was hurt
💯 💯 💯 💯 💯
You know why this show is the best? Because they don't rehash the same 5 arguments every show like Skip and Shannon. They have fresh interesting discussions while keeping great chemistry and respect every show. Love it!
Knock it off.... this show doesn't even measure up to Skip and Shannon. Not even in the same ballpark. I don't even need to know the ratings of each to know Undisputed mops the floor with this show.
Rofl, so true, these guys go in-depth
@@TheSnappyNappyDugout imagine thinking ratings is the measure of a great show 🤣 that would mean Jersey shore one of the greatest shows ever
This is correct. Skip and Unc spend more time on a team that won't even make the playoffs then they do about the potential 2022 champions. Love them tho! But theres more going on in the NBA than the Lakers...🤷🏾♂️
@King Nell yeah, someone please explain that to him. He seems to think otherwise. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.
Nash example was tragic… we all know one of those MVPs wasn’t deserved. But to say.. he played with Kobe and Dwight as an argument… he was 40 and had different injuries every other week…
Right bro played a total of 90 min with the lakers 😂
@@Rodricktyrone can I get an amen 🙏🏻
Don’t Disrespect Nash like that he deserved 1 at least
@@traecraig5473 gotta re-read it.. one of them wasn’t. The first one was. Suns won 60+ plus games and number 1 team in league. But 2nd one should’ve been kobe, Duncan or shaq/Wade
@@bradleywashle6286 the MVP with the suns was well deserved they literally lost every game he didn’t play!
Wow, that was a doozy of a discussion, those three went at it. Love this show!
Ah ya no for sure bud, what a doozy 🇨🇦
The only intellectual debate of sport out there no comparison period
The best sports debate show on television.
Raw real substance. They don’t have gimmicks like the Bozo on first take Stephen A. Or Skip Bayless.
Acho, Wiley, and Ric aren’t trying to be animated and turn their show into a clown show.
paul pierce is one of the most clutch players in NBA history. he spent his entire career carrying the celtics and then because he had a few years when he was past his prime with the big 3 (him, KG, ray allen) who were all past their prime, people think he played with HOFers. people need to actual learn basketball history before they talk. there's a reason he's on the all-75 team.
Yessir! My hometown hero
True story
And I also think that was more to pierce’s point James harden has played with far better talent at a younger age and has not achieved
Paul Pierce was that dude.
@@videoorgy I agree. Ric seems like a newb on this topic. Paul Pierce's career did not begin in 2007. At the start of his career, he did play with Antoine Walker who was a great scorer for the Celtics but Pierce quickly took over as the number 1 guy. In fact now that I think about Harden reminds me a little of Antoine Walker. A great scorer but had trouble getting in shape. I wouldn't put Harden on Pierce's level. Antoine Walker was also on the cover of my N64 NBA game which is as good as an MVP in my opinion because it is a popularity contest.
Marcellus finally made the point I make when comparing teams, when you go player for player by counterparts, number 1 v number 1 number 2 v number 2 that’s how you really should compare the outcomes. Brilliant take, absolutely won the segment with that point alone.
Exactly!!! Thank-you!!!
You have to go deeper than that
#1 vs #1, #2 vs #2 is not a reliable measure.. The sum of the whole being greater than the parts is a much better measure aka Dirk's chip or Chancey's chip. The fit has to be right
This debate dead cause the mavs beat the suns and everyone would take the suns line up besides Luka but some people would most def pick Chris Paul over Luka. This isn’t even a debate if you play against a legit team ball type of style they can make stars look avg too.
@@ndn4203 Thank-you. You saw what happened to the Mavs against the Warriors the next Round too.
The problem is James doesn’t play to his expectations regardless if they win or lose. If you play like the regular season James and you still lose fine. But that’s never been the case
Can't remember if it was 3 or 4 years ago but Kobe said his style of playing would never lead him to a championship. Way too ball dominant.
Well with the Money he's made, he can find a Jewelry Store to forge a Ring, and that is the ONLY he'll get 1, Nevertheless....
That was like 20 years ago🤦
@@Coldskin1 Harden wasn't even in high school 20 years ago???
Kobe also said if he wanted to start a team Harden would be his guy so do with that information what you will. Or will this not suffice because he’s saying something positive about Harden lol
@@not_da2159 find me the source for that.
With Paul, Ray, and Kg in prime, they would have won probably 3.. Those dudes made me love the NBA again
They actually sparked the new era that would send lebron to Miami solidified Kobe career and brewed fuel in Kd and steph who was playing during the years they was ruling the nba that celtics big 3 made this modern era.
@@RALPHLAURENISTHEBEST facts people don't realize that. Imagine them in their prime together. Egos probably would have got in way but
they were allstars when they played together.
I'm sorry but Paul was not a super Star! He was a star player that needed other great players around him! KG and Ray Allen are super stars and are better players then Paul Pierce!!!!!
@@bjrnthebootybandit bro they were at the tail end of career
Paul Pierce is a closer. At the end of the Game he would close it out and get the win. All Paul Pierce was saying he replace him in those big games he would had made sure took those games.
Paul Pierce won only one more conference final than harden and pierce had 4 hall of famers rondo Allen kg rivers. so they are overrated except for Allen in my opinion.
Thank you Paul pierce for pointing out the obvious whether ppl want to admit it or not ✌🏾✌🏾
How he gone win with those teams harden had and he not even better than harden
@@colbyryans1018 Yes He is.
Ohh ya Paul proved it. The Celtics won THE FIRST year. And KG was injured in 09 when the Celtics had the BEST record in the league (obv would have went back to back if KG stayed healthy. They went to a game 7 the NEXT year with a less then KG then before) I LOVE how Nash. Kobe. Howard FAILED Harden. KD, Kylie FAILED LMAO they are TRASH players. P AND KG won FIRST YEAR. People slept on pierce . He even went toe to toe with LBJ. Pierce is way MORE CLUTCH and a winner then Harden
What did Pierce and the Celtics ever do after that 08' title though? You know besides winning that one title they were supposed to win.....
Dude you just made a bunch of excuses for Harden talking about the teams he ran into please stop it
Best sports show, best debate… thank you Paul Pierce!!!
Indeed The “Undisputed” best of all sports shows with the best “Takes”!!!
Durant and Kyrie won championships with players who previously won one so I agree with Boucher
That instantly falls flat because he played with both, also Nash's mvps were always questioned
Yeah but Durant got to a finals as the alpha with OKC and averaged over 30 points a game in that series on better then 50% shooting. As a matter of fact, that was the second act of the Disappearing Harden Broadway Show. In that Finals here are the numbers. Durant 30.6/6/2.2/1.4/1 on shooting splits of: 54/39/83. Lebron James: 28.2/10.6/7.4/1.6/0.4 on 47/18/82 splits. KD went toe to toe with Lebron in that series. James Harden in that series. 12/4/3/1/0 on 37/31/79 splits. Westbrook was 27/6/6/1 on 43/18/82 splits and actually outplayed D. Wade. The issue in that series is that OKC got nothing from Harden and Ibaka and started relying more on Derek Fisher then Harden. Also we never looked at Kyrie as a championship #1 or MVP level player. Forget the chip, Harden has never even lead a team to the finals and that`s the issue. To say he`s played with CP3 who just lead his team to a finals. KD, Dwight Howard who lead the Magic to a finals as an alpha, KD again, Westbrook, and hasn`t been able to get one conference championship. That`s a problem.
@@trainerrob1622 bruh, james harden was a baby and not even a starter back then
Come back 2yr from what u going to say because they will win 2 or 1 ring together
Exactly!!! Thank-you!
Paul Pierce acting like he didn't play with 3 other HOFers, 4 in total, and only got 1 chip.
Acho got animated when they started talking about The Dream.
James Harden has put more pressure on himself, I remember Giannas calling him out during the all star selection. Now he is not in the same glass as Giannas
Maybe because of age…?
@@Johenz bruh he 32 that's still prime. You fall off at like 34/35
Paul pierce was more clutch and reliable during the playoffs and played way better defense than harden
It’s not that James Harden lost the series, it’s how he’s been losing these series. Why are these guys not bringing that point up. He’s had horrible performances in big games. Paul Pierce wasn’t losing lik that.
Paul pierce literally blew a 3-2 lead to Miami
@@whois8910 and Harden shot 2-11 in a close out game against the Spurs in 2017.
@@natereynolds2255 that’s the only time you can say harden choked tbh
@@StayTru101 lol okay
The Boston big three underachievers ... Lol that's what they are. That's why they talk about it.
Kobe told us this a longtime ago
right
What did Kobe do when he didn't have Hall of Fame Big Man and D-Fish?
@@UnexpectedWonder you must not know what I’m talking about carry on
@@ponteriomade4454 Oh, I do, and Kobe literally struggled to win without those. You want me to bring up the Black Mamba's Playoff Resume without Shaq and Pau?
He said if he were to start a team with any player it would be Harden and what you’re referring to is Houston’s playstyle not Harden as an individual like you’re implying😂😂
He has greatly underachieved on the Championship level. Honestly he has overachieved as far as what we thought he would be in the NBA. He doesn’t come off as if he is all in on winning though.
How?!
@@UnexpectedWonder He set a personal standard of excellence then doesn't live up to it in the biggest moments. We've seen him play elite but when the lights are brightest he usually plays less than his normal excellence. That is the underachievement
@@damienaiden4302 When was he favored, and who did he play against?! 😡😡 Who was on his Roster?!
I think from 6 man to mvp is overachieving in my books. Disappointing in the playoffs, yes! Definitely, however, let’s stop nitpicking when James has exceeded expectations of when he first entered the league.
@@UnexpectedWonder lmao ignore that I thought it was a different thread 😂 it's not that he loses it's how he loses. He plays nowhere near his MVP self. Its partly the physicality. Refs don't allow him to be a ft merchant. He hunts for fouls instead of just hooping
It's simple: James is afraid of being the lead guy to carry his team home in the playoffs because he'll get CRUSHED. he's being crushed now because as of 3 or 4 years ago people are finally starting to open their eyes and see that he doesn't want to be the reason his team loses games
Kawhi wouldn’t have won the 2019 title without Lowry, without Ibaka, without Gasol, without Siakam, without Green
Crazy how good of a defensive team they were.
KD and Klay were hurt as well
@@trollinthedungeon5255 vanvleet was also a key player and the closer
Kawhi wouldn’t have won if KD got injured in Game 5 and Klay in Game 6 and it took a missed triple teamed Steph 3 for them to win. We all know KD fully healthy and even having a healthy Boogie to take away Marc Gasoline would have easily won that title in 5
They wouldn't of won without him either
Ric Bucher be on here lying for his argument. Yeah CP3 went don’t in 18… but KD went down in 19 early in game 5 with the series tied and the Steph smoked the fools. Nobody ever. Mentions that. It’s like 19 never happened 😂
Steph balled out in those finals without Kd and Klay.
So if 2018 rockets was expected to beat GSW with KD on it and KD lost to GSW after being up 3-1 just the year before then are they saying harden is better than KD??
yeah he was at the time.
@@youngerudit2524 so harden better than KD and curry at that time? Wow!
No it's based off the team, but necessarily an individual player
@@str8duval so individually is harden better than curry or KD?
@@Indifference2000 imo no
Durrant only won when he played with Curry, Westbrook has never won anything besides individual awards. He and Paul was just an odd mix, 2 point guards.....I give you this, James needs to win a chip to establish his all status.
Kevin Durant only won 2 final mvps.
@@sageinthecage yeah that’s a lot
@@sageinthecage yeah, playing with Steph Curry
@@sageinthecage but he joined a 72 win team, who won a Chip without him. add Durant to any team he's the best player, so he won the Finals MVP.
James and Westbrook can’t win with other great players lol that’s a knock on THEM
Those 2 guys are trying real hard for some reason to make us believe Harden has not underachieved. It doesn't matter who he had to go against because other guys had to go up against similar talent with less help than Harden and still pulled it off. So yeah he has underachieved. He's not the only one that has underachieved. But its still a fact that he has.
It's amazing how Media can form opinions in certain ways. Like, I was more of a Lebron *detractor* in his early career, but watching countless ESPN, TNT, FS1, etc. hosts BURY Lebron year over year and then to SHOVE Michael Jordan down our collective throats (Last Dance anyone?), it wasn't long until I found myself ROOTING for Lebron which I never thought I'd do lol. That's the exact same reason I'm pulling for a 76ers v. Warriors Finals this year. This whole Steph vs. KD debate, and the James Harden spotlighting is annoying. Win a chip so we can finally put this discussion to bed. (I'm from WA, they took my team, so I don't have a hometown team to pull for anymore lol)
This is by far the hardest topic to pick a side for me because that conversation could go to multiple players if it applies to James Harden
Best sports debate show hands down. Just 3 men talking sports, no rude interruptions, no unnecessary moderator. The remnants of when sports debate shows were all good
You can't say Harden only falls short because he ran into "it." Running into "it" isn't Harden losing to LeBron, KD, Kawai, Giannis, etc. Running into "it" was the Raptors being gatekept by LeBron for half a decade. And when he left the east, they snuck one chip in (with Kawai, but still).
Harden's supposed to be one of those "its." But he's shown time and again, that he just doesn't measure up to them.
That`s where Rick and Wiley`s point falls short. Its not only that he doesn`t have a chip but he hasn`t gotten to a finals his prime. He made one finals as a young bench player in OKC. When we look at all the guys those Bulls teams prevented from getting chips, all those guys at some point still lead their team to an NBA finals. Ewing got to a finals, Charles got to a finals, Stockton and Malone got to a finals, Reggie Miller got to a finals. Clyde Drexler and Dirk are also good examples. Dirk had go head to head with those Duncan lead Spurs teams and Kobe lead Laker teams just to get to the finals and he still managed to get to two and win one. Drexler had to deal with those Showtime Laker teams just to get out of the west and he still managed to get to multiple Finals in his prime and then win one with Hakeem on the back end.
KD takes GSW to 3 championship appearances? GSW took KD to 3 straight championship appearances. KD has the same amount of finals appearances as harden if KD wasn't carried to the finals by GSW
Stupid take
And if Grandma had balls, she'd be Grandpa ...
Do you guys see what is happening with the Seahawks? That would be Golden State without KD.
Saying "James Harden should've done a little more in the playoffs" is a major understatement
Yea, if Harden doesn’t go ice cold from 3 in 2018 they literally go to the Finals with a great chance to win. That’s called underachievement.
@@skillethead15 so you're saying going in to the series, you expected the rockets to beat the warriors? You bet money on that? Oh and throw in cp3 hamstring injury for the last 2 games? You bet on that too?
Nah
@@skillethead15 so did LeBron underachieve by getting swept in 2018 by that very same Warriors team that Harden took 3 games from ?
@@jctslice Idk. But what I do know is that Rockets team would have beaten that Cavs team. The only reason Harden doesn’t have a ring is because he choked in this series.
If James Harden was as clutch as Paul Pierce he would have a ring. And how many times did James Harden quit on his team?
How many Teams did he drag there?
@@UnexpectedWonder None
I’m sorry! I loved Harden’s game and thought he was dat dude! But.. there’s no denying that he has totally fizzled out in the biggest moments of his career and his character is highly questionable. Ain’t no way that I’m at the club a few hours after blowing a major playoff game at home. Then he’s forcing his way out of multiple organizations when he’s been given the keys to those castles. Harden is soft and weak minded. Be clear.. Philadelphia will turn on him in two minutes flat if he continues to come up short in the big moments. If he thinks he can just go turn up at the club after major losses he’s going get crucified. Paul Pierce was a killer scorer in crunch time and Harden totally disappears in the clutch. All James had to do is get his numbers in the playoffs but he doesn’t get it. He performs worse in money time. Ric & Wiley are crazy to suggest otherwise! Facts 💯
Such a killer that in 5 seasons with two hofers he won 1 chip
Paul Pierce went to the FINALS with a 35 year old Ray Allen who doesn't play defense and a 34 years old KG - 6 years removed from his Prime .. impressive
This discussion is very entertaining but at the end of the day, Harden has to either rise to the occasion and get his ring or settle for the Top 75 and wealthiest players to play the game. All in all, it's not bad just a battle for how "GREAT" he wants to be. It's up to him - all we will do is boo or cheer him for what's done come his retirement.
Marcel at the end 😂😂😂🤣🤣 had me dying 🤣
He’s underachieved but Paul Pierce of all people shouldn’t be the one to point it out
How has he underachieved?!
@@UnexpectedWonderhe’s had great opportunities to win and couldn’t get it done
@@KingKCA Who did he play against?! 😡😡😡 Was he favored to win a Ring?!
He’s literally set turnover records in close out games.
A finals MVP can’t point something out?
Bro that was a good breakdown . Keep them coming 👍
No yall need to go look at all the All-Stars that James Harden played with aside from MVPs and that list is hella long. Paul Pierce can talk because he does have a ring
can we stop the 2018 excuse of Chris Paul got injured, 2019 KD got hurt, Chris Paul is playing and they still cannot beat the Warriors
Ocho: "I love yalls take, but here’s the problem.... I have no idea how to admit when im wrong....
Harden has underachieved.
He’d have to be wrong first
Ocho killing it bringing up that it was Slick that voted for Harden for MVP
This was the best and fairest discussion on one of these shows I’ve seen in a very long time … great panel
I mean Paul Pierce can't really talk, but theres no doubt Harden has underachieved in his career. Thats not even a debate. Acho is right on with his take
Paul Pierce actin like he never played with amazing talent himself 👀👀
Oh he did but that one ring is more thn MJ’s 6 lol 😂
He didn't in their primes.
@@dewanewelch1744 Paul had 5 seasons to do something and they was still good enough to take the Heat to 7 games for two years straight so 🤗
@@dariuspaker7960 clearly wasn’t prime KG or Allen 🙄 not even a comparison
@@delonniejohnson1165 oh so KG making 5 all stars and ray making 3 went they were in Boston is not a comparison?? Hmm 🤔 ok
Using Hakeem is the silliest most disrespectful worst argument ever. JORDAN WAS PLAYING AND LOST TO THE TEAM HAKEEM BEAT IN 95
Not even gonna lie this was one of the best segments I’ve ever seen in any show in recent memory. They all was going crazy. However, in 2018 even with CP3 being hurt no excuse they missed like 26 straight 3s and lost by like 7 points I put that on him. Other than that he’s come up against better teams…simple.
It's not about who Harden played WITH its who he played AGAINST
Great show. But to answer the question...underachieve.. No more easy foul calls and poor 3 point %. Giannis went and got a 50 peice to take his team over the top. K. Lenard top Raptors over the top. Great players seize the moment
As great as K. Leonard was for the Raptors, It was a combination of Fred Van Fleet playing out of this world and Klay getting hurt that put Raptors over the top for that championship.
Kawhi got them there.
Fred van fleet took them home....not Kawhi.
@@peterguidry6084 kawhi even without the finals, had one of the grestest playoff runs by any measurable metric.
@@youraverage90sguys7
That is part of my debate.
While Harden had good playoff games, he also had a bunch of bad playoff games and moments especially that Spurs series.
The only viable team Harden had to win a title was the 2017-2018 Rockets team that took the warriors to 7.
When the Rockets had 2 key players injured (including CP3) and they went on to game 7 and missed 27 straight 3s and still lost by single digits....you can blame Harden, but where was Harden's Fred Van Fleet when he needed him?
How can all 10 or 11 players in the Rockets rotation be cold all at the same time?....Ariza missed about 12 3s, Green? Capela? Tucker? Eric Gordon? Anyone
You telling me no one else could step up and hit a couple of shots.
In history all championship teams had a couple of non star players come up big here and there.
Best ender in any sports convo in a good while...
Acho definitely shut them down with this argument. Harden has been top 5 for the last 5 years at least. Everybody else in that time span we said they underachieved if they didn't win
Y’all are back on it. 👑👐🏻
That white dude really said James harden never had a team they were literally going to beat that warriors team if they woulda just went to the rim 3 or 4, times instead of missing 20 three pointers in that last five minutes smh
They still did not have the better team
That doesn’t mean he had the better team
Remember when the author wrote the book Acho. There weren’t any super teams in the league when Paul Pierce one a title other than his team
I’m not a harden fan by any stretch of the imagination but what I will say is this ppl alway bring up his losses in the playoffs but they never acknowledge who he lost to he’s been bad in big moments but majority of his playoff losses were to teams that won the chip the years he lost to them
It's not about losing its about how you lose for instance LeBron lost to the Warriors but he went out with a fight same with MJ vs the Celtics & Pistons
Or KD last year vs the Bucks
Harden has too many performances in big games where he just disappear that can't be overlooked
@@Stonecoldalston smh you casuals and your stupid takes..
@@realamerican8069 When you have no argument.
Bro he running out of excuses he got embiid now so if he still don’t win no chip then what?
@@Inf3rnoBlaze the take is still stupid!
Acho too proud to bow out! Slick Ric dropped knowledge on Dem Boyz!!
If it doesn't work out in philly. Harden will have killed his own legacy.
He was too impatient. Nets were wayy stronger than anyone with the healthy big 3. This year they would have made it to the finals imo.
I mean it’s laughable that they pretend that Golden State is the only team Harden has choked against in the playoffs 😄
Did rick just say he played with KD for just one season yikes. I guess he forgot their time together in OKC
@One shot deal thats 3 whole seasons and 1 final appearance where he went missing, why wouldn't you.
@One shot deal he was part of the big 3, a star in his role coming off the bench. Yes he underachieved do you not remember that heat finals he was bad. He was not the harden we know of today thats a given but since then he hasnt done anthing in the playoffs
@One shot deal If you are talking Paul Pierce vs Harden I'm going to definitely take Paul Pierce. However when you are talking about Westbrook I feel like OKC should have started Harden over Westbrook.
You're right Ric Bucher, " James Hardhead hasn't Underachieved", because Nobody expected him to Win Squat with his Style of Play. Plus, He's a Choke Artist...
And If Harden had PRIME Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen and Rondo all health?
Also, are we blaming Harden for OFC never won a chip when he's coming off the bench?
Looking at Houston, Let's just put Westbook aside for while. Rockets lost CP3- the other max player(or close to max) on the team and they lost. Name one team who had win a chip with one of their max not playing in the pass 10 years?
No one…. Lebron lost when kyrie n love weren’t playing won when they played
Kg&Ray allen was not in their prime on celtics...they got traded in their 30s. Meanwhile harden lost with prime dwight,cp3 and kd
If he had those players it wouldn't work because of Hardens style of play. He has the same problem as Westbrook. They both are great but their style of play doesn't compliment other great players.
@@trey7446 Dwight wasn’t in his prime.. kg an ray an the whole bench mob were better than what Houston ever had….okc harden is different than bk(now 76ers) harden.. Kd got his rings joining a super team..an Russ was better than harden in the beginning n Kd lost with him so….curry didn’t win until klay an draymond came along an the bench mob.. Jordan didn’t win until pippen etc came…the best chance harden had to win was when cp3 got hurt.. other than that he’s never had a team(where he was #1) until then
@@schoolboy1984 dwight was 28 years old in his prime on rockets stop lying. He lost with Kd last year&he choked with cp3 vs warriors when they had injuries
Acho is the only person to say " went to a chip". You don't go to a chip, you win a chip.
We gotta stop calling everybody “great”. James Harden is not Great. He’s good. He’s excellent at times. But he’s far from Great.
He's great
@@JCollex No.
Wish these shows’ producers didn’t convince/demand these guys to disagree so much.
Heres the thing , curry was never “handled “ a team and KD new there were winners , kd was given a team with harden and westbrick but they could not overcome there iso ball , while in GS they play team ball ..lebron always chase teams were he can be on the top of the league with 2 or 3 superstars , harden keeps moving from superstar team led players and still loses....
Awesome Awesome debate between 3 broadcasters. They each have valid points, plus allowing there component to be heard. “Steven A” take notes 📝
KD & LeBron couldn’t win a title with Westbrook. Maybe MJ needs to come out retirement to see if he could master this feat?
Yall see what lebron and kd look like with Westbrook and yall expect harden to win with him
Cel thats cause his playstlye isnt conducive to playing with other stars. He has no offball game I mean like no offball game. He just floats around the half court or wings (just to move to the top of the key).
Also Harden gets his numbers and accolades but when it matters most he can't score.
Cel Kawhi got hurt and they were w/o TP9 11-13 to's
Clippers vs Houston Clippers were blowing out the Rockets till Harden sat and Josh Smith brought em back
Great takes from all gentleman. Everyone made compelling arguments. Y’all are all wrong and right at same time. Great work guys.
Slick decided to defeat Paul Pierce today.
It's so strange to see my favourites nba players getting old
James had chances to capitalize, yet alone he definitely had his battles. Opportunities mos def presented itself for “The Beard”. He just choked.🤷🏾♂️
I like the PERIOD. Harden entertains, those other guys entertain & collect the big Chip.
Paul pierce had that many all star teammates lmao and still only 1 championship
Which was passed their prime if those 3 got together early in the career's he would have more
Pierce was also never an MVP himself, and Harden has played with MVP players. Pierce had a healthy KG for 3 years basically. Stop it.
Not really he only played 2 or 3 years with Ray Allen and KG at the end of their primes.
Who are you thinking of? Old man Shaq? Baby Rondo? Antoine Walker?
@@BaithNa he played 5 years with those guys in Boston (5-KG, 4-Allen, 4-Rondo). Antione Walker was during his earlier days and even Walker won a chip as the 2nd leading scorer in the 06 finals with D Wade.
@@jamalwilliams005 kg was hurt 2 if those years, and Allen was out after 3. So he really only played with them for 3 years in their primes.
Paul Pierce was a tough player, and a level below great. He is disappointed with his career and or the respect he isn’t given for his career. The “truth” is the best way to address this, is when you played, if you fall short, whatever the viewpoint, that’s your “lot” in life! Better yet, you are amongst a long list of HOF’s in that category Barkley, Dr. J, Karl Malone and many more. When we comment on another’s career, it’s really a comment on our own! Respect
so we just gunna act like the role players and stars Harden played with were bums? Or ignore Harden choking series after series?
I’m a rockets fan and I can honestly say they were besides cp3 and Eric Gordon. Rockets ownership is so cheap they wouldn’t go into the luxury tax to surround him with better talent
Can you name the role players he played with vs the role players he lost
oh and thats just in Houston obviously
@@jetblkm3112 please name the players because apart from houston in the playoffs they were never gonna beat the heat in the finals and brooklyn he got injured as well so please name the Houston rockets role players or team that was favored to win the championship
Paul Pierce isn't lying 🤷🏼♂️
Sounds like something Paul Pierce would say 😂 James Harden's only good teamates for playoff basketball have been his 2 years with Chris Paul and his 1 year with KD and Kyrie. Other than that the other "star" teammates were washed
Dwight Howard performed better than he did in the playoffs. So I'd say Howard wasn't washed.
@@ralx225b Dwight Howard averaged 16 points per game and 11 rebounds per game over 3 years with James Harden. He refused to do pick and rolls during that time and demanded to only do issolation post ups down low. In Houston Dwight was a less efficient and less coachable Rudy Gobert, he was a good role player in his Houston days.
@@MalikFrost12 None of what you said addressed what I just said. When they were in the playoffs Dwight Howard performed better. You just described something that had nothing to do with what I said.
During the 2014 playoffs, Howard averaged 26 points and 13.7 rebounds per game, but the Rockets were eliminated by the Portland Trail Blazers in the first round, losing the series 4-2.
James Harden in those same playoffs averaged 26 pts shooting 37% from the field and 29% from 3. So yeah Howard performed better in the playoffs than Harden did on the same team.
@@ralx225b I addressed what needed to be addressed, I stated why Dwight Howard wasn't a star, and that he was washed. You brought up irrelevant info.
You were and still are wrong anyways, James Harden performed great in the playoffs for his 2nd, 3rd and 4th years with the Rockets. 2013-2015 are all with Dwight Howard.
James Harden Playoff Averages:
2013: 26.3ppg 4.5apg
2014: 26.8ppg 5.8apg
2015: 27.1ppg 7.5apg
Dwight Howard Playoff Averages
2013: 17ppg 10.7rpg
2014: 26ppg 14rpg
2015: 14.9ppg 14rpg
Dwight Howard stats aren't impressive outside of the one playoff series in 2014. Dwight stats tanked in the playoffs 2015, golden state got to him but not James Harden.
James Hardens only elite teammates were Chris Paul and/or KD and Kyrie.
@@MalikFrost12 No you didn't and the fact you can't see that is frightening. I discussed his performance in the playoffs which is what the entire discussion about James Harden is about. All you gave was your own personal opinion. Now you are saying he wasn't a star?
1. Dwight Howard actually led a team to the Finals.
2. Dwight Howard has performed in the playoffs at an elite level MORE times than James Harden.
3. In series I just showed you he also performed better.
4. If Dwight Howard was not a star and performed BETTER than Harden who as supposed to be a star then what does that say about Harden and what does it say about YOU?
Again your blindness is troubling. Learn to stay on topic, instead of being so close-minded that you think your right when you are not even on topic.
Since when did MVP more important than championships?!!
MVPs are a regular season thing and Pierce did most his damage in the playoffs. Ric's trying to act like the regular season matters more than the playoffs.
Has Harden underachieved..? For sure no… But Pierce would definitely have more than 1 championship if he played with KD..
No he wouldn't. He played with a great team for 5 years with KG allen and Rondo. Lost to Dwight and Kobe and the Lakers, not the Celtics went back to back. Only won once . Having KD wouldn't change that
Just had Joel
Embiid and some dudes.. him as a individual underachieved .. only 2 shots in the second half ain’t gonna cut it no matter who you have on your team
When kg and Allen came to Boston they really only had 2 seasons to win it because of all three of their primes running out and then kg getting hurt the second year really handicapped them
Hakeem never even made the finals when Jordan was in the finals.. And since Hakeem was in the West Jordan is not the reason Hakeem does not have more rings.. What a fairy tale..
He’s timid , not the alpha basketball Player. He need a alpha player with him to win against a alpha basketball . If he’s the best player he’s gets bullied
The fact he got bullied by KYRIE in a meaningful-meaningless game speaks volumes. This guy cannot be trusted when it's crunch time
Don't forget Kawhi Leonard has a couple also
Paul Pierce really can't talk down on Harden. Harden is way better and if he underachieved, then Pierce 1000% underachieved if he was good as he thinks he was.
What…? Pierce won a championship the FIRST year playing with competent teammates.. Harden has played with multiple former MVP’s and has still never even MADE it to the championship without an MVP on his team… I love Harden but he isn’t on Pierce’s level. Harden is more skilled for sure, but Paul Pierce is one of the clutchest players in NBA history… With a championship and a finals MVP to prove it..
@@ramonnewell9312 people better stop blowing off what TheTruth says just cause they don’t like him..he was a hooper and he has every right to critique and voice his opinion
Also went to the ECF when he had Antoine Walker.
@@ramonnewell9312 key word former! Ik you ain’t gonna count Westbrick. And last year he and kyrie got hurt. Paul is irrelevant and just tryna get his name talked about and sadly it worked
@@cep3608 Westbrook.. The dude who won an MVP 2 years before going to Houston to play with Harden? Yeah I’m going to count the guy averaging 27, 8R, 7A..? Nobody is talking about last year… KD, Harden, and Westbrook played in OkC for 3 years. 1 of those years KD was the MVP and they have 0 championships to show for that 3 years..
Slick nailed it in the end
If Harden played his best when it matters and they still lost, then Slick and Wiley's point stand. But since he's choked going back to OKC, that can't be overlooked.
Splendid take
This is a terrible take.
Huh?
Dude didn’t do much with his early career and won 1 ring with 2 of the greatest player. You can’t even last on ESPN.
Him KG & Allen only really had like 3 prime years together and one of the years KG got hurt and the other 2 they was in the finals I hate the Celtics as a Laker Fan but if that team was put together 3 years sooner they win atleast 3 rings in that stretch
@@Stonecoldalston exactly people want to overlook PP first 10 years and act like he was playing with Allstars and superstars and underachieve. Atleast if he had another Allstar and was flaming out in the playoffs than I would see he point . But that’s not the case.
Peirce wasn't even close to sniffing a chip until they got two stars , Garnett and Allen along with a rising star in Rondo on his team and was the first super team.
Paul Pierce is a clown. Anyone can win an NBA championship with Harden's former teammates. The issue is: Harden didn't play with KD, CP3, Embiid, Wesbrook, Kyrie at the same time.
Westbrook would have ruined that team. 43 wins max
He’s a top 75 player you just a hater!
He 100% has underachieved!!! And don’t put Chris Paul in the argument because he hasn’t played with the level of talent that Harden has.
That Boston Big three under achieved too though. So I guess Pierce would know.
KG WAS HURT AND THE BIG 3 WEREN'T IN THEIR PRIME
Nah, they were a bunch of old guys at that point. I'd argue they overachieved. If they all came together in the early late 90's it would have been unfair.
@@zeaferjones1404 Man they was all in they're early 30s when they first won, like 30 to 32 years old, the whole big three. Far from old.
@@normanparson3941 Jordan won his first at 28, Pierce and the whole Big 3 was from 30-32, how young you want them 🤣🤣.
@@Nedo_ao Yeah but all of those guys were superstars from their rookie years. You are talking about each of those guys carrying their teams for 10+ years. Harden's first year as a starter was in Houston so it's a little different.
just a couple of days ago, ppl were saying Harden "is back" when he dropped 30. now, he sucks, underachieved, should retire wtf loll. Harden is one of the best scorers ever and hes more accomplished than 80% of the league.
Paul Pierce always talking crazy. Let’s name the teammates that Pierce played with to get his ONE championship: Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Joe Johnson, Antoine Walker, Rajon Rondo, Chris Paul, Jamal Crawford to name a few.
Acho’s suit and tie were extra crispy today