Had GS and Step won that 3rd Chip Marcellus Wiley would be saying “But Kevin got them to the game 5 and clearly GS wouldn’t have won without KD”… Nah! Mr. Wiley you just love KD
Ty lue said they doubled Curry the entire series not kd. Kevin durant is godly when its 1 on 1. the warriors team was so good it allowed him to always play iso. When he has to be that guy and get doubled he cant get it done. everything chuck said was correct.
Ty Lue said it and I was a bit stunned because he was clear, so I went back to watch extended 20 minutes highlights of those series and boy was he Right.
Because winning a championship isn't about one player. The MVP is the bus driver. During those two championship year KD was absolutely the bus driver a the league recognized him as such by awarding him the MVP award.
@@rbyeah2263 clearly they can’t as they haven’t done so since their first title. They didn’t win the title in 2019 either. They needed Kevin and they said this themselves. You don’t get to argue with the players actually out there
And people forget, cough cough Skip and others, that Steph Curry without KD swept Portland in the conference finals before almost beating Toronto without KD.
Nah no one will convince me they win those titles without KD after they choked that 3-1 lead to the Cavs. I don’t know if the Warriors win in 2015 if kyrie is healthy.
Why do people try and forget the first 10 years of KD career in OKC. He lost a 3 -1 lead and then left to join a better team. That is a no brainer. When you are on the court with Steph and Klay, KD gets to play one on one basketball.
@@darnellwilliams8783 bro ur also forgetting that suspension in game 5 in 2016 if draymond didn't get suspension and they let him play do you honestly believe golden state wouldn't have won in game 5 back at oracle please tell me ur joking cuz draymond almost got finals mvp in game 7 if they won
@@darnellwilliams8783 kd wouldn't have any titles if he didn't go to Golden state and steph never got swept in his prime kd might end up doing it and we cnt bring Jordan cuz as soon as pippen made an all star team they made it further kd has another all star on his team and I believe Kylie is better than Kris Middleton and giannis won
@@jaybizzy31 and they forget the fact the thunder had all time horrendous spacing which is what played a role in Draymond and Iggy being able to defend Kevin one on one. Kevin was taking shots with his teammates standing 2 feet from him
No….Warriors beat OKC. Not Steph beating KD. At the same time Klay carried the warriors during those playoffs. Those are facts. My opinion, KD needed the warriors as much as warriors needed him.
@@thejaw15 OK and in 2016 Iguodala Bogut and Curry were hurt and there was a one game suspension that doesn’t take away from Cleveland’s 2016 championship does it?
Kyrie and Love were hurt another time...that's what it comes down to health sometimes. Part of the game is injuries and health. If's and buts, maybe and nuts. They needed or perhaps wanted each other at the time.
@@pandabear1576 dafuck are you talking about? they were in 2 finals WITHOUT KD that's your proof dumptruck. IN FACT make that 3 since 2019 KD wasn't there when they powered through Rockets and Portland to get to the finals
Not really.. Kyrie didn't have a choice in the matter. Lebron wanted to go back to Cleveland. Also Kyrie actually didn't want Lebron to come back either, so.. 😂
@Bigdaddy Longstroke84 No they don't..If he played for rings he would have stayed in G.S...They play for themselves and sh!t on the fans. Ratings will skyrocket now those two b!tches are gone
especially one that beat the brakes off his team in the same series. harden would have made the warriors unstoppable... lebron would have made them unstoppable. .. kyrie would have done the same... derrick rose at that time .. come to think of it, any player that joined the warriors at then would have made them unstoppable and they are forgetting that clay got hurt and was out for a year after that. the raptors beat a team that was exhausted and hurt and had lebron stayed in the east, that would have been his trophy
It's LeBron James they want you to forget they win 73 games but they needed KD to beat LeBron but if Draymond hadn't gotten thrown out that game it was over . Why don't talk about the warriors sweeping LeBron self made team but he is the goat but got swept People you are not paying attention the media is telling you what you seeing is not what you seeing but what they tell you what happening that what happenings. NBA is LeBron James and until he retires this league is gonna be mess up because he always gotta be int the mix because now they bringing his commercial back with him talking too his younger self why is that ?
@@bjvu9460 tbf I feel at that time KD was the best piece the warriors could’ve added. Not the best player, that’s LBJ for sure, but looking at that motion offense and how KD for a time invested in their defensive schemes, particularly in 2017, he was the best player they could’ve added to boost them into the convo of potentially greatest team of all time. LeBron would’ve been a great addition too but I feel wouldn’t have been quite as smooth on offense. That said, they would’ve 3 peated for sure with LBJ since he does such a great job staying healthy and him and Steph alone could’ve beat that raptors team. Assuming that Warriors team still had the injury bug they did while facing a LBJ cavs team yeah that would’ve been Lebrons to win
@@jefferyrogers1458 the one element to 2016 I hate no one mentions is how Bogut was out for GM 7 but people forget it or act like it was a non factor which is false. There were so many things that happened in 2015 and 2016 I just say Steph and LeBron won each other’s rings.
@@weatherboy0149 you think loosing bogut and Draymond for 1game is anything close to loosing Kyrie and Love for a whole series let's be real they went got kd to stack the deck because instead of playing each other in WCF they teamed up to beat the goat
Exactly idk why these dudes are not realizing this they can go watch GS vs Clippers 2019 Steph is getting tripled team while KD is wide open on the wing for 10 seconds
@@semionjohnson1351 no he should never be above Curry on the list of all-time greats and he should not be that high because he has not won a championship as the superstar he had to go to someone else’s team he doesn’t get that honor until he gets a championship
@@iamfreed86 iverson , no. He played with the least amount of talent in nba history as far as a superstar is concerned. Still was unstoppable. Could argue for pat Ewing as well. You smoking franks
they needed the consistency, he was basically the combine production of Barnes and Livingston. he's the best complimentary player in the world. he's not good when he has to handle the double team and make the right decision.
@@mariojimenez227 Kevin while on the warriors developed his passing out of double teams and that played a big part in why they won games where the defensive game plan was to double him over curry
Here's a thought. If Bron was on the Nets right now at the same age KD is which is 33 so a 33 year old Bron with the remaining of the roster the same they would demolish this celtics team. KD not that guy. Sorry KD fans
@@Imma_Gee OK question if role players on this team for the Nets with a 33 year old LeBron or averaging about 50+ points a game in this series just with Kyrie and KD passing let alone LeBron who is a better passer and this is his ideal team shooters everywhere do you really think that Kyrie even if he only average 16 points and LeBron with his 30 do you really think that wouldn’t be enough to beat this team? Let’s not forget I think he was 33 years old when he took that team that didn’t have Kyrie in Cleveland to the finals so let’s stop it with this LeBron couldn’t have done it yeah he could have he wouldn’t have one most likely but he would have beaten this series and probably made it to the finals
Gol D. Roger he was such a non factor they practice begged him to join they squad Draymond curry and Kerr. The warriors won against a injured Cavs team smh and Charles Barkley was avnin Factor thsts why he never won a championship
come on guys don't over reach one way or the other . Kd was a big reason no Cap But Kd will he the first to admit steph was the guy . the system was built around the gravity of steph wich gave Durant the most open looks of his career at the high level add to that Kd always strugled with getting rid of teams in the way to the big games so golden state system was perfect in wich he only cruised through the west and when it really mattered he was in the best position to perform wich was his best attribute 1vs1 no double teams and open floor with great scorers at the side going toe to toe with him in the scoring board so it was the perfect marriage . Kd has like 25% credit Steph has 40% because of the system and intangibles and 35% for coach Kerr for the defensive system in place .
@@juniordexter3214 Acho talked about the stats, They were WORSE when KD had to play without Steph. That team was built around Steph. KD was another tool given to Steph to secure a championship. Notice how KD's ONLY rings came when he joined an already established Championship contender.
Marcellus I love your takes but KD got hurt in game 5 against the Rockets and then came back game 5 and got injured right away on the first quarter. It was Curry who was the reason they won and closed the Rockets out in game 6 of the WCF when he dropped 23 in the 4th quarter.
Charles was right. 57-59 without Golden State that is KD playoff record. They were 73 and nine before him and already had a championship. He joined a two time MVP a defensive player of the year and the two greatest shooters in the history of the game. Kevin Durant choked against Golden State and now he’s choking again. People just don’t like how it feels to call Keven Durrant a bus rider which is exactly what he was the officers ran through curry and Kevin Durant did not have to worry about playing iso ball all the time and creating his own shot and everything because curry and the offense did it for him. Kevin Durant is one of the only superstars in history they never had his own team has the number one option and got a championship get to go to someone else’s team and bandwagon to get those championships and those finals MVPs. Golden State Lost in seven games because of injuries suspensions and Harrison Barnes not being able to hit the broadside of a barn. Kevin Durant was a free agent and had not said he was returning to the thunder what Golden State was doing was doing its due diligence to be the best team it could what team would not want to get a score at the level of Kevin Durant because they put them over the top where they couldn’t lose that’s just smart teambuilding and unselfishness by curry it doesn’t mean they needed him they had one before him and if they would’ve gotten healthy the next year without Kevin Durant they would have probably won again. The thing that Wiley is missing is that yes Golden State lost in the finals and seven games but who did they beat to come back from down 3 to 1 in the Western Conference finals oh Kevin Durant. I love how when it is with Golden State they couldn’t get it done and that’s why they need to go to Kevin Durant but when it comes to Kevin Durant the same logic is not OK in the reverse because he blew a 3 to 1 lead also with a extremely talented Team. So yes he is the ultimate bus rider. That 2016 finals also had a lot of stuff that led to them losing a healthy team the next year most likely would have won the title and they didn’t need a Kevin Durant they could’ve gotten a good shooter who was a small forward star they could shoot not the level of Kevin Durant and they would have won. The fact is and that finals in game 4 or 5 Bogut tore his ACL Curry had surgery on his hand or wrist after the finals Iguodala was hurt . The fact is also Harrison Barnes couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn I swear he missed like 30 open threes in that series. Draymond the missed a game and still it took even with that depleted team game seven last minute Kyrie hitting a shot to beat the injured team. I find it funny that Marcellus Wiley wants to act like it was the same team that year that Kevin Durant was injured that it was before he got there there’s a tragic flaw in the theory. First of all not only was Kevin Durant hurt Klay Thompson was hurt in that series so it wasn’t the same team also to afford to pay all of the four stars and superstars on the team they had to get rid of a lot of their depth so they were not as deep so when there was an injury there was not a bunch of shooters who could come in and pick up the slack so no it was not the same team because what they were missing and roll players Kevin Durant made up for and the rest of the team for what they were missing but when those two were injured it was not the same team and their depth was sorely lacking. The fact is any team has to if they’re going to have a bunch of stars sacrificed depth that’s why having one or two superstars and having a bunch of death is sometimes better than having three or four stars and super stars and no depth so it wasn’t the same team give me a break. people also forget the Tyronn Lue said after the fact that they doubled curry and gave Kevin Durant one on one. He was the mismatch because you couldn’t just let Curry cook Because he’s a two time MVP
@@dhruv_3o that's exactly what I'm saying...Steph may be the best player on the team, but he definitely isn't the most important player...that's Draymond easily!
@@dhruv_3o they need both, but Curry without Draymond is a Tesla with no charge...there are plenty of cars that can be driven with an electric charge, but a Tesla only drives with a charge.
Yup. But Golden state also was a rider. Because no team should go for kd when they went 73-9. They should’ve had the balls to run it back with Cleveland
If you put Paul George, Kawhi, Jimmy Butler on that warriors team they would’ve won also. That’s how good that team was. So now KD is getting double team because he doesn’t have Klay or especially Steph who get double team and therefore KD would be open or have one guy on him. I used to think KD was the second best SF after Lebron but I’m putting Bird over him now
@@alibowens12ab yes jimmy butler and Paul George he’s absolutely right. Did you see how kd played in 2015 and now compared to his gsw years. Their games would be elevated too playing next to those two shooters, can’t be double teamed etc. They probably wouldn’t average 35 but they both would be better defenders and would probably give you 28 and it would be more than enough for a chip those teams were stacked they literally lost the chip by 4 points the year before how can you lose adding any of them
Sorry KD thank you for the 2 Rings you gave Us in GSW but you left SC30 over Kyrie Irving i feel bad for you because SC30 is the most selfless Superstar player in NBA that i known but KI never been a SC30 caliber when he refuse for vaccination so i feel bad He fail you as the team
Yeah and Barkley's also a complete hypocrite. He demanded to get traded to Houston after Hakeem beat him in the playoffs twice in a row so he can get an easier path to the title with Hakeem and Drexler. But after a complete failure of a career outside of one MVP award and being known as the "Round Mound of rebounds" he wants to talk trash on player's today
sometimes people get too caught up in trying to figure out what happened rather than just seeing what happened what happened was KD choked a 3-1 to the warriors in the conference finals, then he said "we'll get them next year" then he did not get them next year, rather he joined them next year, then he left curry for kyrie and never made it back to the conference finals since while the warriors have won a ring without KD and look like they can at least make the conference finals again this year, something KD has not done since leaving the warriors skill wise Ill take KD over curry but leadership wise, KD vs curry is like tom brady vs baker mayfield
Yup. Curry is a leader. Durant isn’t. Simple as that. Curry inspires others, makes them better, and steers the culture of the team. Durant is just there to hoop.
@@_morgoth_ and theres nothing wrong like that, look at kawai similar personality who showed u can win a chip around him just like kd, but you can't count on building a franchise around either steph is what makes the warriors the warriors. Replace steph with any other pg and they ain't the same. Kd will prob be higher on the all time list but steph's leadership is a million times better than kd
It's honestly like Rodgers vs Brady. One is clearly better in terms of just physical skill set. But the other player has a leadership gene that even all time greats don't have.
@@Inf3rnoBlaze actually that’s a way better comparison for kyrie vs curry, since the anti vax stuff plus the 1 ring followed by playoff disappointment. I agree tho baker clearly isn’t a superstar but my point was KD is so bad of a leader that comparing him to baker in that department is fair despite his play
You guys are the best duo. You have so much more personality and make things sound more fun to listen to. I hate looking at skip's death face and slow talk. He pauses so much to gather his thoughts and Shannon is cool but nowhere as articulate as you both are. I really like what you both do and I hope you both continue to grow and keep things fresh and young in this industry. We need more people like you. It's time to change the narrative of the sport and you both do such an awesome job guys. I REALLY DIG your analogies and ways of making sense from each point of view you both bring to the table. THANK YOU BOTH!
I feel like this guy was just given a print out by the producer for the sake of putting out a differing opinion. He is reading nonsense off his paper. Curry did not need KD. He was a basket away from winning back to back championships.
Marcellus is always making excuses for KD, this's what happens when you take short cuts to win a championship, it's so sweet to see the Sport Networks taking heads anointed Nets team loose.
What else do you call joining a 73 win team with 3 other all stars? Even when they won, even the GM roasted him for joining a good thing already DURING their celebration ceremony.
One could argue the 2015 championship was similar to the raptors I'm 2019, beat a team down 2 of its top 3 players. So...downsize that value and the what did the warriors do other than beat a team with Westbrook leading the charge before Durant and none aince
Those Warriors were a 73-9 that couldn't close it out and win the championship without KD, that's what I would call it. Championships are won in the playoffs, not the regular season.
Cell ask yourself this what has kd done on his own as the leader of his own team…….. Nothing…. He is the bud driver of this bus and it’s looking for him right now…. Ocho hit it on the head with his opening segment
Two things can be true. Warriors and KD needed each other. If he stayed in OKC he has zero rings. And when you have Steph and Klay it’s easy to just score. KD can’t lead a team, Charles was absolutely right. In other words, without a heavily stacked team KD isn’t winning a championship
KD was close with Russ and Sam Presti, but the Bob Meyer and Steve Kerr combo is how KD got his chip. If KD were in Miami with Pat Rilst and Erick Spolestra KD would have another chip even minus Jimny Butler.
@@pandabear1576 it all makes since now that Kevin Durant and his buddy kyrie just got sweeped cause he's getting double and triple team to now that he don't have steph and klay to keep defenders off him
Question is would they have won it obviously they felt we rather have him than play against him and he felt like s🤬t I'm trying to get a chip he never cared about being a leader or the alpha at that point in his career he already said he just wanna hoop it was a win win on both sides me being older know that players back then would never join a team they lost to naw ima be at u again next year but for the record he was clearly the best player on the team when he was there but we know he don't win no chips without Steph and Draymond saying come join us dawg we gonna get u yo ring(s)
Yup, Charles described a player that Charles knows very well... Barkley himself LMFAO the hypocrite in his playing days after getting his bum beat by Hakeem back to back playoffs as Hakeem went on to win back to back finals with MJ retired, demanded Phoenix (a good team he was on) to get traded to Houston so he can join Hakeem and Drexler who didn't need him to win a ring and had beat him
alot of these guys lie about how the warriors were able to get KD. they had a lot of cap space and KD just happened to be a free agent. he actually could have went anywhere, but he chose the warriors. boston had brady meet with him. the clippers sent DOC. he CHOSE TO COME to golden state because he knew that's where his best chance to win. Curry's bus.
No he chose to come there because curry and the other 3 star players came to Hampton to recruit him. If not for that visit he still had a visit with the spurs which outside of the clippers were one of the teams with the best chance to sign him.
@@zevanshuster8441 doesn’t matter if it was 1, 2, or even 3 years they still got him or wanted him just to beat Lebron, cus even that year 2015 when warriors won the chip 4-2 it was Lebron by himself and he still managed to win 2 games and warriors knew they got lucky that kyrie and love ain’t play
If you watched those playoff games the other teams gameplan was to get the ball out of Steph's hands they were blitzing him as soon as he got past half court. KD never saw so much single coverage in his life. Not to take anything away from him KD he's an all time great and that dude but Steph was the most important Warrior on the floor. People also seemed to always forget that Steph came back on KD down 3-1 in the playoffs and won a chip without him while KD has won nothing without Steph
No, it's just Durant has always been "this guy" even all the way back to the Thunder. He was never dominated like this, but he's "that guy" he's never really been that clutch. Now he's "the guy" and he's sh!tt'n the bed
Wileys eyes cut across that table so quick when acho said he was going to put things in a way marcellus could understand, he clicked that ball point pen so slightly and immediately. Way to guys, your understanding of each other is wonderful it gives the show greater success
Wiley really has no argument here, until KD shows he can take double teams, elevate his squad, 'get his' and lead his team to a chip in the process he's not better than Steph Curry
The Pre-KD Warriors had a 3-driver rotation. Driving was done by committee. When KD came it went to a 4-man rotation. This year in Brooklyn no one drove.
2019 KD gets hurt in the rocket series (the team that previously took them to 7 games in 2018) and Steph and klay bring home that series in 6…. Proceed to sweep the blazers to make it back to the finals where if it wasn’t for injuries to klay in game 6, iggy being hurt most of the series etc etc… the warriors potentially could’ve won that series….
Chris Joseph I love how you put this! Just brilliantly said exactly this food ain't nothing without the Warriors giving him easy space why everyone else does the real work look at that finals game Steph Curry almost scored 40 you didn't steal they give Do Rant finals MVP trophy b*******!
Cell literally just has to watch those finals against the cavs to know why KD was winning the finals MVPs. Curry was the focus of the cavs defensively. That’s not me saying that, that’s literally what Ty Lue said, HC of the cavs. He said he’d rather let KD get his than Steph get his. Also, KD literally LOST to Steph and the warriors the season Wiley keeps trying to use against him. And KD was not the only injury in 2019. Klay got injured too. All of Cells arguments can be used against him.
just because you have great scoring dont mean your the driver he got on a loaded bus and the warriors gave him the keys to a loaded squad. this series vs the celtics exposed him as a player who cant lead unless its a loaded team period. and i will say again if jason tatum gave the nba the blueprint by bodying him up imagine him playing in the 80s and 90s with all the great defensive teams from those eras. kd wants to ball not lead period
I disagree with Wiley. They’ve been downplaying his time in GS since he signed with them. What is he talking about? 😂😂 This isn’t a new narrative just cuz they’re down 3-0 and he’s in a low point lol
I mean it’s true he needed them more than they needed him they still went to game seven of the finals and lost in the last minute in 2016 and there was injuries Harrison Barnes couldn’t hit a shot and a suspension all to win in seven games. People also forget that Kevin Durant had his own mess up and choke against the Warriors that same year. No it is not a new narrative and it’s always been a incomplete narrative because she came to their culture not the other way around and benefited the ultimate bus rider in history
Haha cmon Aldridge and griffin? They are below average roleplayers in this league at this point. They are more negative than positive. This Nets team is not a superteam like lakers weren’t one. Just a lot of has beens, unreliable guys and drama artists.
@CH the point is that they’re veteran role players.kyrie and Durant are obviously gonna do the heavy lifting, and as far as that goes, they also had dragic and Curry.
I salute you Sir Charles Barkley when you concluded that KD is a Bus rider in GSW. Clearly, Steph has always been the Bus driver in GSW. We should not be comparing KD and Steph as it only mocks the accomplishment of Steph.
That’s a false narrative. Not only KD went down during that third championship run. Klay also went down and missed the next two years. Iggy was also playing hurt. By the time they made it to the Finals, that team was a mess in terms of injuries. There was no way Steph was getting pass a healthy Toronto Raptors team.
I think KD didn't do as much as most superstars to win that ring in GS but I don't think Acho did a good job arguing. If we can't look at stats or awards, what criteria are we going by? lol
Steph Curry was in the best one-on-one player because he had to play against three people at a time and remember Steph Curry be every other good player on every team in the league more than once thank you
I disagree from Wiley's first sentence! No one's "lowering" what KD "achieved" in GS. Those FMVPs and rings BEEN worthless... nobody outside of KD stans EVER respected what he did in GS. GS only needed another scorer because they were going up against a top 3 player OF ALL TIME in Lebron.
I remember Steph pushed GS in the off season without KD. Steph went to god mode and won and brought the Warriors to the Finals. Onion-skinned KD forced himself to return for a couple of minutes to play and gets injured again just to prove that he is needed by the Golden State. Because people are starting to notice that Steph can do it without him. Calling out KD. Also, take into account Steph's broken finger. He played through it. If you like stats, checkout Steph's stats when KD was out. I believe that the reason KD scored more when he was in Golden State is simply because Steph was so unselfish and the Warriors as a team, let KD score more. Even that trey KD did in front of Lebron was just empty points and KD attempting to regain his "being the bus driver" since they are already winning and Steph played better than KD on that specific game.
Marcelus is obviously ignoring the fact that the reason the warriors couldn't close without KD against Toronto is that KD AND Klay where injured. You can be a bus driver but without gas or tires that bus ain't going anywhere.
3-1 suspended Draymond Green, we saw what happens when Draymond leaves the game with 6 fouls.. crazy how lost this is when people bring up losing in the Finals. Not to mention Lebron was cruising to the finals vs Demars Raptors for like 6 years.
Bro Draymond played in game 6 & 7. Don't downplay a 3-1 lead. Imagine Jordan 96 Bulls with a 3-1 lead. Bro there is no excuse. They got out played in Games 5&6. Game 7 was a WASH!!
@@johnscott2141 3-1 lead.. then they suspend Draymond.. ever heard of synergy, they got rolling in game 5, got their confidence and everything they needed. Crazy how you think that swing meant absolutely nothing.
KD achieved cheap superteam rings that don't count thanks to Steph Curry. Since leaving Warriors KD won nothing because he is not leader but only a scorer that need a superteam to win.
Kd fitted so well in that system that I always felt like he did the right thing…im from okc and when he left i was shocked but i knew he made a good choice.
KD has never been doubled or game plan against his entire career, he had a prime Westbrook, he had curry getting chased around all game and him playing 1-1, now he's the PG and responsible to set up, and KD choking in carrying this team, even last year harden wasn't scoring but he was the one setting up. the picture going around of curry having 5 guys on him and KD in the corner by himself shows KD whole time in golden state.
They could’ve have done it without him. They lost because they burned themselves out chasing the regular season record. They recruited KD because they could, he took that team from contender to unbeatable when healthy. He was the best player though, 2 FMVPs to prove it.
@@_morgoth_ i never saw KD better than steph as a player better scorer yes sur better player nope better leader ofc not and like said steph should've won the 2018 FMVP over KD he was robbed like in 2015 they don't want the skinny 6'3 guy wining the thing it's all about the media and what they want SHAME BUT LIKE LUKA SAID ONES THE NBA WAS AND WILL ALWAYS BE A BUSINESS
Marcus, the reason Steph’s numbers dipped was injury. If you remember he was injured twice and missed a couple weeks of games along the way. Sprained ankle vs Houston, then sprained the knee. You know how long it takes to fully recover from those injuries. Now onto why Warriors lost. NBA prolonged the series with Draymond suspension. Which lost them the home game 5. Then game 6, Cleveland took care of their home court. By game 7, Bogut was injured and Iggy back was injured. Injuries took effect after chasing that 73 wins. Also, don’t discount when KD got hurt in 2019, the warriors beat the rockets and swept Portland in conference finals. In the finals, had Klay not gone down in game 6, warriors take it to game 7. Then experience may or may not kick in. That could be argued.
KD can only be on a bus that leads to a finals, with at least 1 other top 75 NBA greatest player. One final in OKC with Harden and Westbrook (2 top 75 NBA great players). And GSW, with Steph Curry. Last year, he wasn't able to get to the finals with Harden and this year 🤔🤷🏽♂️
Imagine holding 2019 against steph. 4/5 starters hurt, and still went to 6 games one shot away from going 7. Now if you want to hold the fact that he missed that shot against him, it is what it is but don't act like he aint ball.
@@BlondeEmu Here's where you're wrong. It had nothing to do with Steph taking 11 3s a game. Its that he MAKES them. Are we going to forget that the raptors even played a box and 1 with Klay still on the floor? The fact that you called Iverson a "mediocre shooter w/ no offensive talent" says all I need to know about your opinion. Nah the guy balled during the series. Yeah they lost, but don't act like Curry didn't ball out.. I mean he did drop 47 points in an NBA finals. I don't know any player in NBA history that can drop 47 points while having no "offensive repertoire".
Anytime anybody starts talking about "what Kevin Durant did in Golden State," a team the previous season went for a record 73 wins and *beat* Kevin Durant in a ridiculous playoff series comeback, I immediately stop listening. He didn't do anything for GS except make them effectively unbeatable.
Very first thing said here is already wrong - that we are "retroactively" going back and bringing down KD's achievemnt with the Warriors. No. Many of us called it out THEN. We called it out before he joined the Warriors. We called it out the moment he announced he signed with them. We called it out when he won the title. And we're calling it out again now. KD has always played on stacked teams, and he underperformed every single year. For goodness sake, he was playign with Westbrook, Ibaka and James Harden when they were all in their early/mid 20s and they couldnt get anything done. Then he went over and joined the most dominant team in the NBA - a Warriors team that was so outrageously dominant that many people gave up on even watching the NBA, because they knew that a Warriors title was pretty much a given, and it just seemed pointless to even watch. Instead of trying to show his greatness by going AGAINST that team, he just jumped right on their wagon and said "yeah I'll come along for the ride". Signing there was a guaranteed championship and he knew it - it's like he saw the way guys like Barkley, Ewing and Malone get critiicsed in history for never wwinning a title and he was like "I just need to check this box". Then once he cheat-coded his way to a free championship he then decided he'll go his own way and try to prove he can do it himself, and once again he has fallen short time and time again. KD is soft, he's always been soft, and he probably always will be soft. It's obvious by the lack of success he's had as a leader, and its obvious by how easily and frequently he lets other peoples comments get to his head. He lacks mental toughness, and the only way he was able to win a title was to grab a free ride wiht a team that was already championship bound. He's an amazingly talented player and nobody will ever be able to take that away from him, but he's not a winner...plain and simple.
In that case, Charles Barkley is not the bus driver or rider. He has zero championship. He's jealous and full of envy. He's on a show with two others who has championships.
Listen to State of the Union: sprtspod.fox/Lalas
Had GS and Step won that 3rd Chip Marcellus Wiley would be saying “But Kevin got them to the game 5 and clearly GS wouldn’t have won without KD”… Nah! Mr. Wiley you just love KD
@Elizabeth Rose everyone just didn’t get better
Whoa - Acho, Scorpio
Thank you
Poor Kevin he's in what what can you call me lately what can you do for me lately
Joining a 73 win team is the definition of bus riding 🤷🏽♂️
This man kd is 57-59 bout to be 57-60 in the post season without gsw. Get him draymond's number asap
Same I was thinking.🤣🤣🤣
Big FACTS
Yep
Yeah pretty much.
the fact that he went to the Warriors makes him a bus rider. If he stayed in OKC he would be considered the 'bus driver'.
Facts idk it’s just hard to like KD and I’m a texas fan
A bus driver with no rings..jus sayin
You know they called him right?? He didnt call them
Russ was behind the wheel in OKC
@@CommonSense1714 don’t matter he didn’t have to go. The move made both of them look soft
Ty lue said they doubled Curry the entire series not kd. Kevin durant is godly when its 1 on 1. the warriors team was so good it allowed him to always play iso. When he has to be that guy and get doubled he cant get it done. everything chuck said was correct.
Yep and it's being proven in this series vs the Celtics.
Ty Lue said it and I was a bit stunned because he was clear, so I went back to watch extended 20 minutes highlights of those series and boy was he Right.
Wat did he do by himself against the bucks last year. Getting triple teamed
@@cv1368 lose
@@brettmesser961 same way steph lost wen he was hurt in thst finals… or wen bron lost wen his other 2 stars was hurt… go look wat he averaged
Why is marcelus ignoring the fact that the team that so happened “needed KD more than KD needed them” beat him when he was in OKC?
FACTS
Because winning a championship isn't about one player. The MVP is the bus driver. During those two championship year KD was absolutely the bus driver a the league recognized him as such by awarding him the MVP award.
It says that Steph had a greater impact on KD's career than Russ or Kyrie.
@@pmh1nic he's not. Lol they can win more championships without durant. Fool.
@@rbyeah2263 clearly they can’t as they haven’t done so since their first title. They didn’t win the title in 2019 either. They needed Kevin and they said this themselves. You don’t get to argue with the players actually out there
Even KD was injured in 2019 GSW won at a high clip and made it to the finals. They only lost in the finals because Klay got injured too. Let's be real
Stop it. If..if..if
And people forget, cough cough Skip and others, that Steph Curry without KD swept Portland in the conference finals before almost beating Toronto without KD.
No they was losing rather they was healthy or not!
Raptors was taking that no matter what!
@@jacobtan4229 they wasn’t even close to beating the raptors wtf are you on!
Nah no one will convince me they win those titles without KD after they choked that 3-1 lead to the Cavs. I don’t know if the Warriors win in 2015 if kyrie is healthy.
Why do people try and forget the first 10 years of KD career in OKC. He lost a 3 -1 lead and then left to join a better team. That is a no brainer. When you are on the court with Steph and Klay, KD gets to play one on one basketball.
even in OKC Westbrook was still super dynamic so he was the one that would get double.
Lol you're kinda of explaining what chuck meant by a bus rider
@@robfoster8356 great name 👍
That’s an easy answer….it’s because they’re loser scumbags!
It’s interesting how Jordan and KD get judged by their success and not their failures
KD was not CLEARLY the reason they won he was just the guarantee
Ahhhh
Noble Skywalker yes he was they flew out to New York to see him smh yall to downplay his success warriors won agsnist a injured Cavs team in 2015
@@darnellwilliams8783 what did the cavs face in the 2016 finals?
An injued watriors team
@@darnellwilliams8783 bro ur also forgetting that suspension in game 5 in 2016 if draymond didn't get suspension and they let him play do you honestly believe golden state wouldn't have won in game 5 back at oracle please tell me ur joking cuz draymond almost got finals mvp in game 7 if they won
@@darnellwilliams8783 kd wouldn't have any titles if he didn't go to Golden state and steph never got swept in his prime kd might end up doing it and we cnt bring Jordan cuz as soon as pippen made an all star team they made it further kd has another all star on his team and I believe Kylie is better than Kris Middleton and giannis won
Sometimes we act like we forget what happened in life. KD was beat by Steph
Kd and the thunder were beat by the warriors. Fans love trying to individualize a team sport.
@@pandabear1576 seriously they forget game 6 Klay
@@jaybizzy31 and they forget the fact the thunder had all time horrendous spacing which is what played a role in Draymond and Iggy being able to defend Kevin one on one. Kevin was taking shots with his teammates standing 2 feet from him
No….Warriors beat OKC. Not Steph beating KD. At the same time Klay carried the warriors during those playoffs. Those are facts.
My opinion, KD needed the warriors as much as warriors needed him.
Rod how did Klay carry the Dubs? How many points did he average in the series?
So is Mercellus just forgetting that klay was hurt that championship run?
Omitting, not forgetting.
@@thejaw15 OK and in 2016 Iguodala Bogut and Curry were hurt and there was a one game suspension that doesn’t take away from Cleveland’s 2016 championship does it?
And KD only played 11 minutes that finals. They were losing against Houston when KD got hurt.
& iggy
Kyrie and Love were hurt another time...that's what it comes down to health sometimes. Part of the game is injuries and health. If's and buts, maybe and nuts. They needed or perhaps wanted each other at the time.
Kd just made golden state unbeatable. without him they still would have gotten to finals without him
1000%
You have no proof of that.
@@pandabear1576 thats just my opinion barring injury
@@pandabear1576 they made it to the finals without having KD after the first round. The year Klay got injured.
@@pandabear1576 dafuck are you talking about? they were in 2 finals WITHOUT KD that's your proof dumptruck. IN FACT make that 3 since 2019 KD wasn't there when they powered through Rockets and Portland to get to the finals
Um, Chuck is right. Durant and Kyrie got a ring from superstars
Facts. Both of them bus riders.
Facts
I guess KD isn’t a superstar now and didn’t continue. Kyrie didn’t contribute at all huh?
@@pandabear1576
They CONTRIBUTED, they were not THE FRANCHISE PLAYERS FOR THOSE TEAMS; Curry and LEBRON WERE, stupid.
Not really.. Kyrie didn't have a choice in the matter. Lebron wanted to go back to Cleveland.
Also Kyrie actually didn't want Lebron to come back either, so.. 😂
He won 2 rings on a team that was won 73 games...Kevin's the definition of "The Bus Rider"
@Bigdaddy Longstroke84 KD wouldn’t have either unless he joined a 73 win team
@@fuarkk3611 Why you guys keep talking about a 73 win team who didn't win the championship. And lost when KD got hurt.
And you the definition of a hater lol
@Bigdaddy Longstroke84 No they don't..If he played for rings he would have stayed in G.S...They play for themselves and sh!t on the fans. Ratings will skyrocket now those two b!tches are gone
@@STell743 because they were 1 game away from winning the championship, but were stopped by a legend called Lebron
They were one basket away from winning back to back championships before KD joined the team. A team he COULDN'T beat! Steph beat him head to head!
Exactly
Preach!!!!
Steph didn't have Westbrook as a teammate 😂😂
@@Agingcowboy92 he still would have won
@@harveyworld2372 nobody wins with Westbrook at this point its becoming a fact
I legit still can’t believe a player as great as KD left for a team that BEAT him. A 73 win team.. It’s the definition of “bus rider”
If KD isn’t a bus rider, why did he get on a bus that was already rolling after just winning 73 games with a pre-established MVP Driver? 🤔
especially one that beat the brakes off his team in the same series. harden would have made the warriors unstoppable... lebron would have made them unstoppable. .. kyrie would have done the same... derrick rose at that time .. come to think of it, any player that joined the warriors at then would have made them unstoppable and they are forgetting that clay got hurt and was out for a year after that. the raptors beat a team that was exhausted and hurt and had lebron stayed in the east, that would have been his trophy
It's LeBron James they want you to forget they win 73 games but they needed KD to beat LeBron but if Draymond hadn't gotten thrown out that game it was over . Why don't talk about the warriors sweeping LeBron self made team but he is the goat but got swept People you are not paying attention the media is telling you what you seeing is not what you seeing but what they tell you what happening that what happenings. NBA is LeBron James and until he retires this league is gonna be mess up because he always gotta be int the mix because now they bringing his commercial back with him talking too his younger self why is that ?
@@bjvu9460 tbf I feel at that time KD was the best piece the warriors could’ve added. Not the best player, that’s LBJ for sure, but looking at that motion offense and how KD for a time invested in their defensive schemes, particularly in 2017, he was the best player they could’ve added to boost them into the convo of potentially greatest team of all time. LeBron would’ve been a great addition too but I feel wouldn’t have been quite as smooth on offense. That said, they would’ve 3 peated for sure with LBJ since he does such a great job staying healthy and him and Steph alone could’ve beat that raptors team. Assuming that Warriors team still had the injury bug they did while facing a LBJ cavs team yeah that would’ve been Lebrons to win
@@jefferyrogers1458 the one element to 2016 I hate no one mentions is how Bogut was out for GM 7 but people forget it or act like it was a non factor which is false. There were so many things that happened in 2015 and 2016 I just say Steph and LeBron won each other’s rings.
@@weatherboy0149 you think loosing bogut and Draymond for 1game is anything close to loosing Kyrie and Love for a whole series let's be real they went got kd to stack the deck because instead of playing each other in WCF they teamed up to beat the goat
KD wasn't getting doubled constantly during the playoffs when he was at GSW, Steph was constantly doubled
Exactly idk why these dudes are not realizing this they can go watch GS vs Clippers 2019 Steph is getting tripled team while KD is wide open on the wing for 10 seconds
KD is low-key one of the most overrated players ever tbh. I've never seen the media protect a player so much
Nah I think he is rated properly he is a top 15 player it’s as simple as that
KD, Kyrie, Iverson are all extremely overrated
@@iamfreed86 add westbrick and AD to that list.
@@semionjohnson1351 no he should never be above Curry on the list of all-time greats and he should not be that high because he has not won a championship as the superstar he had to go to someone else’s team he doesn’t get that honor until he gets a championship
@@iamfreed86 iverson , no. He played with the least amount of talent in nba history as far as a superstar is concerned. Still was unstoppable. Could argue for pat Ewing as well. You smoking franks
Finally someone said everything I've been saying. Warriors never needed KD.
they needed the consistency, he was basically the combine production of Barnes and Livingston.
he's the best complimentary player in the world. he's not good when he has to handle the double team and make the right decision.
Lol we said this in 2017
@@mariojimenez227 Kevin while on the warriors developed his passing out of double teams and that played a big part in why they won games where the defensive game plan was to double him over curry
Of course they needed, they can’t beat Bron
@@JoseOrtiz-gi4wn lol they already did without kd.
Here's a thought. If Bron was on the Nets right now at the same age KD is which is 33 so a 33 year old Bron with the remaining of the roster the same they would demolish this celtics team. KD not that guy. Sorry KD fans
EXACTLY!!!!
I said exactly this earlier. 100%
A lot of speculation there, isn't it? Don't forget we working with the same part time player in Kyrie uh
I don’t think Lebrpn winning this series 😂
@@Imma_Gee OK question if role players on this team for the Nets with a 33 year old LeBron or averaging about 50+ points a game in this series just with Kyrie and KD passing let alone LeBron who is a better passer and this is his ideal team shooters everywhere do you really think that Kyrie even if he only average 16 points and LeBron with his 30 do you really think that wouldn’t be enough to beat this team? Let’s not forget I think he was 33 years old when he took that team that didn’t have Kyrie in Cleveland to the finals so let’s stop it with this LeBron couldn’t have done it yeah he could have he wouldn’t have one most likely but he would have beaten this series and probably made it to the finals
He wasn't wrong Cell. KD was honestly a non factor
What happen 2019
Gol D. Roger he was such a non factor they practice begged him to join they squad Draymond curry and Kerr. The warriors won against a injured Cavs team smh and Charles Barkley was avnin Factor thsts why he never won a championship
come on guys don't over reach one way or the other . Kd was a big reason no Cap But Kd will he the first to admit steph was the guy . the system was built around the gravity of steph wich gave Durant the most open looks of his career at the high level add to that Kd always strugled with getting rid of teams in the way to the big games so golden state system was perfect in wich he only cruised through the west and when it really mattered he was in the best position to perform wich was his best attribute 1vs1 no double teams and open floor with great scorers at the side going toe to toe with him in the scoring board so it was the perfect marriage . Kd has like 25% credit Steph has 40% because of the system and intangibles and 35% for coach Kerr for the defensive system in place .
KD was their best player check them stats goofy. He took over the finals back 2 back.
@@juniordexter3214 Acho talked about the stats, They were WORSE when KD had to play without Steph. That team was built around Steph. KD was another tool given to Steph to secure a championship. Notice how KD's ONLY rings came when he joined an already established Championship contender.
Marcellus I love your takes but KD got hurt in game 5 against the Rockets and then came back game 5 and got injured right away on the first quarter. It was Curry who was the reason they won and closed the Rockets out in game 6 of the WCF when he dropped 23 in the 4th quarter.
Oooooooooh!!!
Them Facts!!!!
it was not WCF, it was the 2nd round vs. Houston. After that, Steph just destroyed the blazers in the WCF.
Charles was right. 57-59 without Golden State that is KD playoff record. They were 73 and nine before him and already had a championship. He joined a two time MVP a defensive player of the year and the two greatest shooters in the history of the game. Kevin Durant choked against Golden State and now he’s choking again. People just don’t like how it feels to call Keven Durrant a bus rider which is exactly what he was the officers ran through curry and Kevin Durant did not have to worry about playing iso ball all the time and creating his own shot and everything because curry and the offense did it for him. Kevin Durant is one of the only superstars in history they never had his own team has the number one option and got a championship get to go to someone else’s team and bandwagon to get those championships and those finals MVPs. Golden State Lost in seven games because of injuries suspensions and Harrison Barnes not being able to hit the broadside of a barn. Kevin Durant was a free agent and had not said he was returning to the thunder what Golden State was doing was doing its due diligence to be the best team it could what team would not want to get a score at the level of Kevin Durant because they put them over the top where they couldn’t lose that’s just smart teambuilding and unselfishness by curry it doesn’t mean they needed him they had one before him and if they would’ve gotten healthy the next year without Kevin Durant they would have probably won again. The thing that Wiley is missing is that yes Golden State lost in the finals and seven games but who did they beat to come back from down 3 to 1 in the Western Conference finals oh Kevin Durant. I love how when it is with Golden State they couldn’t get it done and that’s why they need to go to Kevin Durant but when it comes to Kevin Durant the same logic is not OK in the reverse because he blew a 3 to 1 lead also with a extremely talented Team. So yes he is the ultimate bus rider. That 2016 finals also had a lot of stuff that led to them losing a healthy team the next year most likely would have won the title and they didn’t need a Kevin Durant they could’ve gotten a good shooter who was a small forward star they could shoot not the level of Kevin Durant and they would have won. The fact is and that finals in game 4 or 5 Bogut tore his ACL Curry had surgery on his hand or wrist after the finals Iguodala was hurt . The fact is also Harrison Barnes couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn I swear he missed like 30 open threes in that series. Draymond the missed a game and still it took even with that depleted team game seven last minute Kyrie hitting a shot to beat the injured team. I find it funny that Marcellus Wiley wants to act like it was the same team that year that Kevin Durant was injured that it was before he got there there’s a tragic flaw in the theory. First of all not only was Kevin Durant hurt Klay Thompson was hurt in that series so it wasn’t the same team also to afford to pay all of the four stars and superstars on the team they had to get rid of a lot of their depth so they were not as deep so when there was an injury there was not a bunch of shooters who could come in and pick up the slack so no it was not the same team because what they were missing and roll players Kevin Durant made up for and the rest of the team for what they were missing but when those two were injured it was not the same team and their depth was sorely lacking. The fact is any team has to if they’re going to have a bunch of stars sacrificed depth that’s why having one or two superstars and having a bunch of death is sometimes better than having three or four stars and super stars and no depth so it wasn’t the same team give me a break. people also forget the Tyronn Lue said after the fact that they doubled curry and gave Kevin Durant one on one. He was the mismatch because you couldn’t just let Curry cook Because he’s a two time MVP
What is Steph's record without Draymond? Steph still ain't driving his own car...
@@Mr10before9 🤣 so u saying draymond was driving the car
@@dhruv_3o that's exactly what I'm saying...Steph may be the best player on the team, but he definitely isn't the most important player...that's Draymond easily!
@@Mr10before9 so u saying they would have won without curry but not without draymond
@@dhruv_3o they need both, but Curry without Draymond is a Tesla with no charge...there are plenty of cars that can be driven with an electric charge, but a Tesla only drives with a charge.
If he was the bus driver he would’ve never went to golden state after they blew a 3-1 lead to them
Yup. But Golden state also was a rider. Because no team should go for kd when they went 73-9. They should’ve had the balls to run it back with Cleveland
He was a rider, he never won anything significant except with GSW, look what has happened every where he has played
Tyron Lue said the blitz Steph even though Klay and Kevin Durant was on the floor.
If you put Paul George, Kawhi, Jimmy Butler on that warriors team they would’ve won also. That’s how good that team was. So now KD is getting double team because he doesn’t have Klay or especially Steph who get double team and therefore KD would be open or have one guy on him. I used to think KD was the second best SF after Lebron but I’m putting Bird over him now
Jimmy butler ? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 PAUL GEORGE ? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@alibowens12ab Jimmy Bulter is no joke, Playoff P on the other hand is so overrated its not funny
@@alibowens12ab yes jimmy butler and Paul George he’s absolutely right. Did you see how kd played in 2015 and now compared to his gsw years. Their games would be elevated too playing next to those two shooters, can’t be double teamed etc. They probably wouldn’t average 35 but they both would be better defenders and would probably give you 28 and it would be more than enough for a chip those teams were stacked they literally lost the chip by 4 points the year before how can you lose adding any of them
Jimmy Butler has been balling this playoff so far he also did in 2020
Agree with this Infact you didn't even need a butler or kawhi you can put any SF who was a soild spot up shooter and they still win them rings
Kd was the rich kid waiting on the chauffeur to give him directions. On foot he's lost
When you join the team that beat you (after being up 3 - 1 on them), the BUS ain’t the only thing you RIDING! 🤣🤣🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣
well said!!!
You ain’t right in no kind of way!!! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
@@myishacausey6199 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I dont know about those championship years and didnt watch them BUT Barkley speaks truth and I trust his judgement
except when he guarantees lol, just do the opposite.
Sorry KD thank you for the 2 Rings you gave Us in GSW but you left SC30 over Kyrie Irving i feel bad for you because SC30 is the most selfless Superstar player in NBA that i known but KI never been a SC30 caliber when he refuse for vaccination so i feel bad He fail you as the team
Yeah and Barkley's also a complete hypocrite. He demanded to get traded to Houston after Hakeem beat him in the playoffs twice in a row so he can get an easier path to the title with Hakeem and Drexler. But after a complete failure of a career outside of one MVP award and being known as the "Round Mound of rebounds" he wants to talk trash on player's today
@@joesanthosh5315 big difference from a 73w team
sometimes people get too caught up in trying to figure out what happened rather than just seeing what happened
what happened was KD choked a 3-1 to the warriors in the conference finals, then he said "we'll get them next year" then he did not get them next year, rather he joined them next year, then he left curry for kyrie and never made it back to the conference finals since
while the warriors have won a ring without KD and look like they can at least make the conference finals again this year, something KD has not done since leaving the warriors
skill wise Ill take KD over curry
but leadership wise, KD vs curry is like tom brady vs baker mayfield
My word, you could not have said it better! Respect to the MAX!!!
Yup. Curry is a leader. Durant isn’t. Simple as that. Curry inspires others, makes them better, and steers the culture of the team. Durant is just there to hoop.
@@_morgoth_ and theres nothing wrong like that, look at kawai similar personality who showed u can win a chip around him just like kd, but you can't count on building a franchise around either steph is what makes the warriors the warriors. Replace steph with any other pg and they ain't the same. Kd will prob be higher on the all time list but steph's leadership is a million times better than kd
It's honestly like Rodgers vs Brady. One is clearly better in terms of just physical skill set. But the other player has a leadership gene that even all time greats don't have.
@@Inf3rnoBlaze actually that’s a way better comparison for kyrie vs curry, since the anti vax stuff plus the 1 ring followed by playoff disappointment. I agree tho baker clearly isn’t a superstar but my point was KD is so bad of a leader that comparing him to baker in that department is fair despite his play
You guys are the best duo. You have so much more personality and make things sound more fun to listen to. I hate looking at skip's death face and slow talk. He pauses so much to gather his thoughts and Shannon is cool but nowhere as articulate as you both are. I really like what you both do and I hope you both continue to grow and keep things fresh and young in this industry. We need more people like you. It's time to change the narrative of the sport and you both do such an awesome job guys. I REALLY DIG your analogies and ways of making sense from each point of view you both bring to the table. THANK YOU BOTH!
I feel like this guy was just given a print out by the producer for the sake of putting out a differing opinion. He is reading nonsense off his paper. Curry did not need KD. He was a basket away from winning back to back championships.
For real😂
Marcellus is always making excuses for KD, this's what happens when you take short cuts to win a championship, it's so sweet to see the Sport Networks taking heads anointed Nets team loose.
What else do you call joining a 73 win team with 3 other all stars? Even when they won, even the GM roasted him for joining a good thing already DURING their celebration ceremony.
One could argue the 2015 championship was similar to the raptors I'm 2019, beat a team down 2 of its top 3 players. So...downsize that value and the what did the warriors do other than beat a team with Westbrook leading the charge before Durant and none aince
Those Warriors were a 73-9 that couldn't close it out and win the championship without KD, that's what I would call it. Championships are won in the playoffs, not the regular season.
@@rovingwarrior3710 i call it they hired Kevin Durant because they needed a bus driver
Cell ask yourself this what has kd done on his own as the leader of his own team…….. Nothing…. He is the bud driver of this bus and it’s looking for him right now…. Ocho hit it on the head with his opening segment
Yea and he won’t answer it because Acho said it 3 times and Cell couldn’t address it.
Two things can be true. Warriors and KD needed each other. If he stayed in OKC he has zero rings. And when you have Steph and Klay it’s easy to just score. KD can’t lead a team, Charles was absolutely right. In other words, without a heavily stacked team KD isn’t winning a championship
KD was close with Russ and Sam Presti, but the Bob Meyer and Steve Kerr combo is how KD got his chip. If KD were in Miami with Pat Rilst and Erick Spolestra KD would have another chip even minus Jimny Butler.
You can say the same for LeBron
@@8hype no you can’t. No team Lebron has ever had was so high above the league like the warriors were with KD.
@@orancoo no he wouldn’t. Not without Jimmy being there
@@jonathanjames-patterson5403 as stated 73-9 no title so not above the league
He was a bus rider. Come on. They literally went to 2 finals and won one without him lol smh
KD the all time bus rider and just happen to get a mvp of one series, when he wasn’t the mvp in the whole years. Acho graphic proves it👍🏾
steph got double and triple team the whole series that's why Kevin Durant shot better
Weird how his efficiency has been consistent since then lol
@@pandabear1576 it all makes since now that Kevin Durant and his buddy kyrie just got sweeped cause he's getting double and triple team to now that he don't have steph and klay to keep defenders off him
Assuming all passengers on this bus is responsible for the driver getting a speeding ticket is like assuming KD didn’t win back to back MVPS!!
I’m with Acho. KD needed gsw more than they needed him. They were in the finals already they would have went back with out him.
Question is would they have won it obviously they felt we rather have him than play against him and he felt like s🤬t I'm trying to get a chip he never cared about being a leader or the alpha at that point in his career he already said he just wanna hoop it was a win win on both sides me being older know that players back then would never join a team they lost to naw ima be at u again next year but for the record he was clearly the best player on the team when he was there but we know he don't win no chips without Steph and Draymond saying come join us dawg we gonna get u yo ring(s)
Charles is right KD won by ring chasing by joining warriors dynasty that beat him
Yup, Charles described a player that Charles knows very well... Barkley himself LMFAO the hypocrite in his playing days after getting his bum beat by Hakeem back to back playoffs as Hakeem went on to win back to back finals with MJ retired, demanded Phoenix (a good team he was on) to get traded to Houston so he can join Hakeem and Drexler who didn't need him to win a ring and had beat him
alot of these guys lie about how the warriors were able to get KD. they had a lot of cap space and KD just happened to be a free agent. he actually could have went anywhere, but he chose the warriors. boston had brady meet with him. the clippers sent DOC. he CHOSE TO COME to golden state because he knew that's where his best chance to win. Curry's bus.
No he chose to come there because curry and the other 3 star players came to Hampton to recruit him. If not for that visit he still had a visit with the spurs which outside of the clippers were one of the teams with the best chance to sign him.
They acquired KD for one reason only and that was to beat Lebron
Exactly they chocked the 3-1 lead draymond literally called him after game 7 so they knew they needed him to beat the cavs
Not true. They were going after KD two years in advance.
Still bus Rider,
@@zevanshuster8441 doesn’t matter if it was 1, 2, or even 3 years they still got him or wanted him just to beat Lebron, cus even that year 2015 when warriors won the chip 4-2 it was Lebron by himself and he still managed to win 2 games and warriors knew they got lucky that kyrie and love ain’t play
KD HAS NO RINGS
Bron>steph>giannis>kd
These two guys alone outclass entire espn..
Doesn't Emmanuel's brother Sam work at ESPN?
Joining a 73 win team is a desperado rider trying to get where he is going!!!!
If you watched those playoff games the other teams gameplan was to get the ball out of Steph's hands they were blitzing him as soon as he got past half court. KD never saw so much single coverage in his life. Not to take anything away from him KD he's an all time great and that dude but Steph was the most important Warrior on the floor. People also seemed to always forget that Steph came back on KD down 3-1 in the playoffs and won a chip without him while KD has won nothing without Steph
So what happened when KD wasn’t there when they played Toronto ?
No, it's just Durant has always been "this guy" even all the way back to the Thunder. He was never dominated like this, but he's "that guy" he's never really been that clutch. Now he's "the guy" and he's sh!tt'n the bed
Preach!!!
Wileys eyes cut across that table so quick when acho said he was going to put things in a way marcellus could understand, he clicked that ball point pen so slightly and immediately. Way to guys, your understanding of each other is wonderful it gives the show greater success
Wiley really has no argument here, until KD shows he can take double teams, elevate his squad, 'get his' and lead his team to a chip in the process he's not better than Steph Curry
I love this show. It doesn’t matter how you feel about a topic going into it, you’re going to get to hear every angle of it
This show actually sounds smart when they disagree
The Pre-KD Warriors had a 3-driver rotation. Driving was done by committee. When KD came it went to a 4-man rotation. This year in Brooklyn no one drove.
Lol tells that it was never a 4 men rotation to begin with... KD never lead shot in warriors he was a better version of a 3nD player is all
Acho and Wiley have the best discussions in all of sport. I literally could spend the whole day watching them go back and forth.
2019 KD gets hurt in the rocket series (the team that previously took them to 7 games in 2018) and Steph and klay bring home that series in 6…. Proceed to sweep the blazers to make it back to the finals where if it wasn’t for injuries to klay in game 6, iggy being hurt most of the series etc etc… the warriors potentially could’ve won that series….
Chris Joseph I love how you put this! Just brilliantly said exactly this food ain't nothing without the Warriors giving him easy space why everyone else does the real work look at that finals game Steph Curry almost scored 40 you didn't steal they give Do Rant finals MVP trophy b*******!
But we don't know that and they didn't win.
Charles is 100% spot on.
Cell literally just has to watch those finals against the cavs to know why KD was winning the finals MVPs. Curry was the focus of the cavs defensively. That’s not me saying that, that’s literally what Ty Lue said, HC of the cavs. He said he’d rather let KD get his than Steph get his.
Also, KD literally LOST to Steph and the warriors the season Wiley keeps trying to use against him. And KD was not the only injury in 2019. Klay got injured too. All of Cells arguments can be used against him.
Yes 100%. Steph literally created the easiest buckets ever for kd. Cavs d was more scared of curry than kd.
just because you have great scoring dont mean your the driver he got on a loaded bus and the warriors gave him the keys to a loaded squad. this series vs the celtics exposed him as a player who cant lead unless its a loaded team period. and i will say again if jason tatum gave the nba the blueprint by bodying him up imagine him playing in the 80s and 90s with all the great defensive teams from those eras. kd wants to ball not lead period
I disagree with Wiley. They’ve been downplaying his time in GS since he signed with them. What is he talking about? 😂😂 This isn’t a new narrative just cuz they’re down 3-0 and he’s in a low point lol
I mean it’s true he needed them more than they needed him they still went to game seven of the finals and lost in the last minute in 2016 and there was injuries Harrison Barnes couldn’t hit a shot and a suspension all to win in seven games. People also forget that Kevin Durant had his own mess up and choke against the Warriors that same year. No it is not a new narrative and it’s always been a incomplete narrative because she came to their culture not the other way around and benefited the ultimate bus rider in history
Kevin Ducant is not and will never be the best player in the NBA period. He's not on lebron's level.
Steph is doing the same to Poole as he did to KD giving the chance to shine instead of compete with them. That’s how you win championship
What’s KDs excuse? He’s on a team with Kyrie, Aldridge, and Blake griffin, there’s no excuse.
Haha cmon Aldridge and griffin? They are below average roleplayers in this league at this point. They are more negative than positive. This Nets team is not a superteam like lakers weren’t one. Just a lot of has beens, unreliable guys and drama artists.
@CH the point is that they’re veteran role players.kyrie and Durant are obviously gonna do the heavy lifting, and as far as that goes, they also had dragic and Curry.
Nash is Trash
KD knew it was a punk move and still made it.
All facts Acho
I salute you Sir Charles Barkley when you concluded that KD is a Bus rider in GSW. Clearly, Steph has always been the Bus driver in GSW. We should not be comparing KD and Steph as it only mocks the accomplishment of Steph.
This is why I never thought KD was the best player in the world.
Yup….he was never better than Steph.
@@ERoss338 stop it he is better Steph curry is not too 5
That’s a false narrative. Not only KD went down during that third championship run. Klay also went down and missed the next two years. Iggy was also playing hurt. By the time they made it to the Finals, that team was a mess in terms of injuries. There was no way Steph was getting pass a healthy Toronto Raptors team.
I think KD didn't do as much as most superstars to win that ring in GS but I don't think Acho did a good job arguing. If we can't look at stats or awards, what criteria are we going by? lol
You guys are the best, all great points, always, and always respectful with each other.
Was KD the best 1vs1 player on the GSW? Yes.
Was KD the best offensive player on the GSW? No. It was Curry
Steph Curry was in the best one-on-one player because he had to play against three people at a time and remember Steph Curry be every other good player on every team in the league more than once thank you
this is like the intellectual version of the undisputed debates
I disagree from Wiley's first sentence! No one's "lowering" what KD "achieved" in GS. Those FMVPs and rings BEEN worthless... nobody outside of KD stans EVER respected what he did in GS.
GS only needed another scorer because they were going up against a top 3 player OF ALL TIME in Lebron.
They would have won without kd
Lebron lost get over it
@@jamalevans1574 maybe after LeBron served them they went crying for KD so apparently they were scared
@@mikejones1765 get over what? I don't even fk wit lebron like that...you rabid Bron haters are delusional
Thank you Acho
I remember Steph pushed GS in the off season without KD. Steph went to god mode and won and brought the Warriors to the Finals. Onion-skinned KD forced himself to return for a couple of minutes to play and gets injured again just to prove that he is needed by the Golden State. Because people are starting to notice that Steph can do it without him. Calling out KD. Also, take into account Steph's broken finger. He played through it. If you like stats, checkout Steph's stats when KD was out. I believe that the reason KD scored more when he was in Golden State is simply because Steph was so unselfish and the Warriors as a team, let KD score more. Even that trey KD did in front of Lebron was just empty points and KD attempting to regain his "being the bus driver" since they are already winning and Steph played better than KD on that specific game.
Yep! Barkley is right Wiley needs to stop digging this hole. He is straight wrong!!!
The 73 win team coming up short, we're just down playing the Dray suspension?
Did he miss the last two games too🤔 you can make excuses but you know what happened. You're just in denial but it's ok if that helps you sleep better.
Still played in game 6 and game 7 at home.
NBA was letting dray kick people in the nuts all year, he messed up by doing it to Lebron in the finals for the world to see
Nobody wants to talk about that. Game 5 in golden state with draymond , that series is over
Marcelus is obviously ignoring the fact that the reason the warriors couldn't close without KD against Toronto is that KD AND Klay where injured. You can be a bus driver but without gas or tires that bus ain't going anywhere.
3-1 suspended Draymond Green, we saw what happens when Draymond leaves the game with 6 fouls.. crazy how lost this is when people bring up losing in the Finals. Not to mention Lebron was cruising to the finals vs Demars Raptors for like 6 years.
Bro Draymond played in game 6 & 7. Don't downplay a 3-1 lead. Imagine Jordan 96 Bulls with a 3-1 lead. Bro there is no excuse. They got out played in Games 5&6. Game 7 was a WASH!!
@@johnscott2141 3-1 lead.. then they suspend Draymond.. ever heard of synergy, they got rolling in game 5, got their confidence and everything they needed. Crazy how you think that swing meant absolutely nothing.
Why didn't he just win one in OKC Marcellus??????
KD achieved cheap superteam rings that don't count thanks to Steph Curry. Since leaving Warriors KD won nothing because he is not leader but only a scorer that need a superteam to win.
Kd fitted so well in that system that I always felt like he did the right thing…im from okc and when he left i was shocked but i knew he made a good choice.
KD has never been doubled or game plan against his entire career, he had a prime Westbrook, he had curry getting chased around all game and him playing 1-1,
now he's the PG and responsible to set up, and KD choking in carrying this team, even last year harden wasn't scoring but he was the one setting up.
the picture going around of curry having 5 guys on him and KD in the corner by himself shows KD whole time in golden state.
I just want to say thanks for the intelligent debates you guys bring to the table
They could’ve have done it without him. They lost because they burned themselves out chasing the regular season record. They recruited KD because they could, he took that team from contender to unbeatable when healthy. He was the best player though, 2 FMVPs to prove it.
Steph should had won that 2018 FMVP so pls man
Better player but not a leader. Hence he’s the rider and not the driver.
@@_morgoth_ i never saw KD better than steph as a player better scorer yes sur better player nope better leader ofc not and like said steph should've won the 2018 FMVP over KD he was robbed like in 2015 they don't want the skinny 6'3 guy wining the thing it's all about the media and what they want
SHAME BUT LIKE LUKA SAID ONES THE NBA WAS AND WILL ALWAYS BE A BUSINESS
@@samysahib8566 u sound dumb
Marcus, the reason Steph’s numbers dipped was injury. If you remember he was injured twice and missed a couple weeks of games along the way. Sprained ankle vs Houston, then sprained the knee. You know how long it takes to fully recover from those injuries.
Now onto why Warriors lost. NBA prolonged the series with Draymond suspension. Which lost them the home game 5. Then game 6, Cleveland took care of their home court. By game 7, Bogut was injured and Iggy back was injured. Injuries took effect after chasing that 73 wins.
Also, don’t discount when KD got hurt in 2019, the warriors beat the rockets and swept Portland in conference finals. In the finals, had Klay not gone down in game 6, warriors take it to game 7. Then experience may or may not kick in. That could be argued.
KD can only be on a bus that leads to a finals, with at least 1 other top 75 NBA greatest player. One final in OKC with Harden and Westbrook (2 top 75 NBA great players). And GSW, with Steph Curry. Last year, he wasn't able to get to the finals with Harden and this year 🤔🤷🏽♂️
KD forfeited any claim to being the driver when he lost head to head to Steph and then joined the warriors.
Imagine holding 2019 against steph. 4/5 starters hurt, and still went to 6 games one shot away from going 7. Now if you want to hold the fact that he missed that shot against him, it is what it is but don't act like he aint ball.
can we hold last year against him? LOL
@@alxfonso4924 for losing to Memphis yea. Though idk what that roster could have done in the playoffs.
@@BlondeEmu bro Klay only played better cause they only cared about curry, they left people wide open just so they can make sure curry didn’t score
@@BlondeEmu Here's where you're wrong. It had nothing to do with Steph taking 11 3s a game. Its that he MAKES them. Are we going to forget that the raptors even played a box and 1 with Klay still on the floor? The fact that you called Iverson a "mediocre shooter w/ no offensive talent" says all I need to know about your opinion. Nah the guy balled during the series. Yeah they lost, but don't act like Curry didn't ball out.. I mean he did drop 47 points in an NBA finals. I don't know any player in NBA history that can drop 47 points while having no "offensive repertoire".
Anytime anybody starts talking about "what Kevin Durant did in Golden State," a team the previous season went for a record 73 wins and *beat* Kevin Durant in a ridiculous playoff series comeback, I immediately stop listening. He didn't do anything for GS except make them effectively unbeatable.
And Curry would have won a title without KD had the refs not helped Bron git his city a chip by suspending Draymond in the finals.
Very first thing said here is already wrong - that we are "retroactively" going back and bringing down KD's achievemnt with the Warriors.
No.
Many of us called it out THEN. We called it out before he joined the Warriors. We called it out the moment he announced he signed with them. We called it out when he won the title. And we're calling it out again now.
KD has always played on stacked teams, and he underperformed every single year. For goodness sake, he was playign with Westbrook, Ibaka and James Harden when they were all in their early/mid 20s and they couldnt get anything done.
Then he went over and joined the most dominant team in the NBA - a Warriors team that was so outrageously dominant that many people gave up on even watching the NBA, because they knew that a Warriors title was pretty much a given, and it just seemed pointless to even watch. Instead of trying to show his greatness by going AGAINST that team, he just jumped right on their wagon and said "yeah I'll come along for the ride". Signing there was a guaranteed championship and he knew it - it's like he saw the way guys like Barkley, Ewing and Malone get critiicsed in history for never wwinning a title and he was like "I just need to check this box".
Then once he cheat-coded his way to a free championship he then decided he'll go his own way and try to prove he can do it himself, and once again he has fallen short time and time again.
KD is soft, he's always been soft, and he probably always will be soft. It's obvious by the lack of success he's had as a leader, and its obvious by how easily and frequently he lets other peoples comments get to his head. He lacks mental toughness, and the only way he was able to win a title was to grab a free ride wiht a team that was already championship bound. He's an amazingly talented player and nobody will ever be able to take that away from him, but he's not a winner...plain and simple.
Marcellus don't make sense to me...
KD don’t have a Driving License
Lebron has a Cdl class A 😂
Get off his sack boi
Chuck was talking about leadership. KD was the best player skills wise but we have seen you need more than skills to win chips.
Wiley is way off base on this one. Klay got hurt in 2019, KD has won nothing with out GSW
He knows that he was hurt he just protecting kd
In that case, Charles Barkley is not the bus driver or rider. He has zero championship. He's jealous and full of envy. He's on a show with two others who has championships.
Cell lost that debate big time
right now...today.....steph is even a better defensive player than mama's boy KD.
KD was the e-brake on the bus lol!!! 😂
Can’t believe how a lot of people are missing Chuck’s point. Acho is a smart guy and read between the lines.
it still blows my mind that people defend KD for his lay away rings and time spent in GS. burner bob is a chump
not only they defend kd, they attacking steph
@@maxiqums1549 facts
Curry beat durant! Durant couldnt drive his okc team past, Curry team. Then Durant decided to be a bus rider on Curry bus.
Lebron was by him self.. but the Compton analogy was amazing