Lamar Jackson says he needs a SB to remove bias against black QBs | NFL | SPEAK FOR YOURSELF
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
- Lamar Jackson is a former Heisman trophy winner and NFL MVP, who recently appeared on LeBron James' "The Shop" on the Uninterrupted RUclips channel. While on the show, the topic of bias against black QBs came up, saying quote: 'It's still there. That's why I need that championship.' Marcellus Wiley and Emmanuel Acho debate whether the Baltimore Ravens' QB needs to win a title to remove bias against black QBs.
#SFY #NFL #LamarJackson
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Lamar Jackson says he needs a SB to remove bias against black QBs | NFL | SPEAK FOR YOURSELF
• Lamar Jackson says he ...
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Shannon shape is best entertainment guy on tv now not Stephen a smith
@@dakingltroyproductofdade3579 Don't you mean Shannon Sharpe?
I love the show, they bring up every point clearly. They both have valid points points but the quarterback who broke the mode was Warren Moon, if nobody's ever seen Warren Moon play they need to go back and watch that dude play, broke my heart several times. He was incredible.
Big facts....I was a huge Warren Moon fan. I actually hated every time the HOUSTON OILERS played the Broncos, because you just knew that Elway was going to get 2 minutes at the end of the game to score the winning touchdown. Anyway, Moon was definitely not a runner. He was a gifted passer. Randal Cunningham was a runner, like a Randy Moss with a cannon for an arm. McNab was not a runner, but did well as a quarterback. We have a few examples of great passing black quarterbacks. However, your comment about Warren Moon was fantastic.
@@dakaraiINK yeah, I'm 59 yrs old, LUVED to watch Moon play 🤣✌🏼👍🏼💙
Perhaps you and Jackson forgot and do Great disservice to Doug Williams, Washington Redskins QB who won The Super bowl in 1988
Cant forget Air McNair one of the great qbs who made it to a super bowl even with Jeff Fisher
@@fmfsports1746 LUVED watching him play 👍🏼👍🏼✌🏼✌🏼🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾may he REST IN POWER 🙏🏾🙏🏾✌🏼✌🏼
I think he was talking about the bias against his style of play. If you be like us you good, but if you do it your own way then good luck with that. I go through this at my job so I get what he was saying lol.
Good way to put it...
I don’t think that has to do with race though, but I agree.
Here comes the race card. If you feel that way quit. Stop complaining about your employer putting cash in your pockets. If you don’t like your job then quit or leave.
Wiley always gets way too deep
@@itsascaryworld9788 If you read what I was saying I'm actually taking the focus off race. I feel like it's a "style of play" thing. You guilt tripping big dog lol.... Why would I quit my job.... I'm great at what I do lol.
The real important question is… what do his team mates believe because the media doesn’t play a single snap of football?
Media has to create these narratives. Trust me his teammates believe in him!
What u said..BIG FACTS !!!..I'm jus say'n 👍🏼
This man Acho gotta be a preacher’s kid lol. Repeating the main point over and over with increasing emphasis😂
I know exactly what you mean lmao
“Run-first” quarterbacks never get you to the promise land
Mahomes is a run first QB and just like Colin Kapernick has regressed every season into oblivion.
@@michaelbrooker7043 wrong
@@MCfact1827 I know your argument is compelling, but how is he wrong? Has he not performed worse in the playoffs since winning the one and only ring he will see in his career? Funny name you have given you can’t see the facts. 🤣
@@firnameweren5311 Since when is Mahomes a so called run first Qb?
Run 1st is just "code" for blk Qb.
He doesn't need a sb to remove color bias at the position. It aint 1985. He needs a sb to remove Lamar Jackson and scrambling qb bias. Even with a win tho. I still have bias that scramblers enter rise peak and fall and out the league typically within 10yrs while being injured a few times. No scrambler that doesnt learn to win in the pocket last very long. I thought 250lbs cam newton would
Seeing a 250 Cam crumble is enough evidence to show that primary running QBs is not sustainable. You can win games, but can't go deep in the playoffs.
@@YosemiteJ deep in the playoff’s? He went to the super bowl 🤔
@@shredacademy6170 6’5 250 lbs Cam went to the Superbowl and took one of the worst physical beatings of a QB in a superbowl that we have ever seen. Cam was never the same after that. Broncos lit him up almost every play to the point he was afraid to even go for a loose ball right next to him.
@@tacotacotington3638 cam shoulder injury trying to make a tackle after K Benjamin stopped early and let the ball get intercepted, is what killed his career. He ended up getting the foot injury and that’s what sealed the deal. He was then pretty much a backup
@@shredacademy6170 Deep in the playoffs consistently* it's not sustainable but I do think Lamar is different
These two are amazing and need to be on during prime viewing time on fs1. After undisputed!!
I think it’s hilarious how allll these undercover bigots would prefer a one dimensional QB over a QB that can escape for a first down or touchdown when nobody is open or the pocket crashes or even just a more creative play book with QB runs. Maybe it’s because historically black QBs are the fastest most dynamic and would basically put the statues out of work when they have the same weapons as Brady 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
@@420EnochAlien Seek help. 👀
@@420EnochAlien fighting bigotry with bigotry. .....well done. Thats how positive change occurs.
They’re black. Remember?
@@420EnochAlien But if that's the case you can make the argument Brady is even more of a monster, because he wasn't as athletic, and therefore that athleticism couldn't be counted on as a crutch.
You always know Wiley’s take before you watch the video
He’s a republican 😂😂 he made some fair points not going to lie
Whitlock student
Usually the truth which really stings creampuffs
Both of you had excellent takes and nuance. Thank you for your authenticity!
😂😂🤡🤡🤡
These are the two biggest idiots that ever lived.
@@420EnochAlien I think it was a good take about not assuming someone is a running QB just because they are athletic. I know it seems a bit backwards, but if a running QB won 90% of their games in college, then one might assume they won a third of those games because of their legs, not their arm. And running backs almost never make it to 30 in the NFL
LAMAR HAVEN'T WON ANY SUPERBOWLS.. BUT IF RODGERS GOT THAT MUCH FOR WINNING ONE SUPERBOW IN 17 YEARS.... HOW MUCH IS LAMAR WORTH ?🤔
Less because Lamar us no where near as good as Rodgers
Josh Allen takes big hits but doesn’t gets criticized for running
Yes he does! Where have you been? Everyone criticizes running QBs including Allen and Steve Young.
@@thebenc1537 not really it's mostly been Lamar and Lamar is better
@@nature-kv3xe of course Lamar got more attention, positive and negative. He was an MVP and went deep in the playoffs twice. He should get more scrutiny than Allen who really hasn't done much of anything.
@@thebenc1537 they shouldn't put this much pressure on Lamar he doesn't have the team like Allen and little with nothing also didn't have major injuries like Allen. Just imagine if Lamar had the team like Allen Lamar would have won a championship by now
@@thebenc1537 Allen has been to a conference title game and progressed as a QB, Lamar has done neither
Marcellus Wiley, I love you, man! You are a voice of reason! I’d vote for you for president.
Great conversation. Of course the solution to all of this is to judge folks as individuals not as a group. But every time someone says "this happened to me because I'm ______ (fill in the blank)" we perpetuate the group think and bias. Maybe what happened or didn't happen is because you didn't study or because you are lazy or because you treat others disrespectfully. Why do some black people still associate proper grammar with speaking white? When we do we perpetuate the group think and bias. When we identify ourselves as African-American we perpetuate the group think and bias. As Wiley said, we act as if no progress has been made ignoring the fact that two intelligent and very articulate black men are hosting their own show. I'm almost 70 years old. Tremendous progress has been made but some people talk as if it's still 1950.
Did you miss the 1930 riots after black revolutionaries were killed by police?
Did you miss the Rodney king riots?
Did times really change 2020 USA has more riots because black people were being killed by police?
Let's these articulate men ratings go down and we'll see how long they have their show.. give anyone time and they can come up with something to go along with their point but the problem doesn't lay with these two because they don't have the power to change the minds of those in power.. that's where the most dangerous biases are..
What bias? Doug Williams had the arm that Lamar lacks. That's no crime.
Lamar don’t got an arm lol ayo log off please 🤡
How about have a offensive Coordinator that actually knows how to use him and his WRs better
@@420EnochAlien that's what the OP said Williams had the arm Lamar LACKS
Lamar is a star. Doug was a backup QB that got lucky once. Like a lesser Nick Foles of his era. Got hot in that Superbowl agains the Broncos similar to how Foles got vs Patriots.
@@erikpuka2627 You really should watch the story on Doug Williams and you'll be educated on the fact he wasn't just a backup player that got lucky.
Also when you look at those QBs, look at their OLines and their OCs and see how successful the passing games are opposed to the run game because that matters as well. And don’t forget Lamar’s 2nd year, it wasn’t just running. He had a great offensive line AND he led the league in TD passes. Ijs but y’all go awf
I think there are multiple reasons he's criticized, and race is not the primary reason. Instead, I think it has to do with the style of play more than anything, with executives and coaches doubting the long-term viability of someone who plays as he does. It's even questioned with Josh Allen, too, for similar reasons. I also think dual-threat QBs often have problems with their read progressions and accurate pocket-passing because they often never develop those skills to the same degree as others - they rely on runs to get out of jams instead.
With that being said, I definitely think casual fans jump into these racial arguments (both pro and con) a lot more than NFL executives and coaches. It just doesn't make that much sense for those types because the league is about winning and, ultimately, money. The vast majority of them would hire whoever can make them look good.
@@scratchpenny Another good example of that play style in totality would be Andrew Luck at the beginning of his career. He was a more established passer but would get out and run whenever need be. After doing that for a couple of seasons he started to get wore down until eventually he just couldn’t stay healthy. Like, he ruptured his spleen on one of the plays he tried to run for a first down and get out the sideline before getting hit out.
The executives just know that when a player runs it opens up the possibility of them getting hit/hurt more than if they get a traditional QB that will stay behind the line, behind his blockers, and attempt to get the ball down the field to a receiver rather than running it himself.
@@scratchpenny what about the owners and GM’s who refuse to draft black quarterbacks to the point of detriment……cough cough the Detroit Lions….one of the most losing franchises in all of sports. Think how many top 10 picks they’ve had the past 25 years. It’s hard to not see the backwards thinking going on and ignoring results.
6:54 Talking about Stephen A smith....who clearly never watched college ball to say that. SAS could've easily looked up Haskins' stats to quickly disprove that. Even SAS went straight for the bias.
He gets paid to degrade and down play black Athletes
@@handymanwitthatool2787 and then he goes Black nationalist when he gets called out for it.
I saw that live and was cracking up 🤣. Dwayne Haskins couldn't beat Dwayne Johnson in a race. It just showed he doesn't have to know what he's talking about to try to speak like he does.
SAS makes 15M a year more than any analyst on FOX notetake that clowns.
@@barithekid why you think he makes SO much money what’s sports does he actually analyze ?
Wiley rebuttal skills are second to none!
Really 😂😂😂
I think it’s hilarious how allll these undercover bigots would prefer a one dimensional QB over a QB that can escape for a first down or touchdown when nobody is open or the pocket crashes or even just a more creative play book with QB runs. Maybe it’s because historically black QBs are the fastest most dynamic and would basically put the statues out of work when they have the same weapons as Brady 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
@@420EnochAlien facts I really wish Vick could’ve gotten to play with TO instead of mcnabb philly would’ve been champions
Waren moon
And Randel cuttinham
Had Randy Mosse
No super bowl
Tom Brady super bowl with Randy Mosse
Tom Brady always had complete teams around him an Randall didn’t.
I am a Black fan and just doesn't believe in the longevity of running QB's (at the NFL level). Nor do I believe they can consistently be franchise QB's for many years. So I agree with Acho, in that I even have the SAME bias as a black person myself about QB's that are considered "dual threat".
I would love to see more Black QB's who are "traditional", I think the intelligence racial bias would be alleviated if you had more Black QB's who aren't dual threats. But it seems like when Black QB's are drafted, their speed is always focused on being utilized instead of just an after thought. So just imagine this same mentality is applied to Black QBs at the college, high school etc lower levels. I'm a Bears fan and you saw that with Justin Fields, everyone wanted to see "QB designed runs" (which most of them failed, his agility in traffic is bad). The coaches, fans, and even the players themselves start buying into this idea that they all have to keep following that Michael Vick blueprint and to me this hinders passing development when its leaned on so much. So I believe you got Black QB's who are being molded to rely on athleticism more than pocket proficiency from when they first start playing the position....... I like QBs like Aaron Rodgers and Russell. They run every once in awhile when it make sense but they ain't running QB's.
Wiley is tapdancing around the real problem. He knows there is a bias.
I think he knows but just wants to show another angle of the take for the shows sake. They do that on these shows sometimes
He just said bias exists for all positions. How many white running backs do you know getting drafted first round?
@@PlayafromtheHimalayas Christian Mccaffrey? Was he not a first round pick or did I remember wrong?
No bias he just can't throw 😂
@@mrc1132 obviously he can
These guys are so articulate and eloquent it's insane. Well done
They’re horrible
@LetsBeHonest its called appreciation. It's not rocket science buddy 😂😂😂
He has to cut down on the running and improve on his passing that’s really it, every QB has to do that
@Charming Chowder I think that is the biggest part of the problem. When you are so incredibly athletically gifted in one aspect, it can actually weaken your overall game.
A QB that has a cannon of an arm and can throw off platform? They rely on that arm cannon to get them out of tough situations, that what they fall back on when the chips are down. They spend less time honing their touch passes, they spend less time working on timing routes with WR, and they spend less time thinking about their check-downs because they just aren't going there.
A QB that is incredibly fast and can run for 1,000 yards per season? They rely on their legs to buy time, and to create open WRs. They spend LESS time looking for hot reads, they spend less time thinking about how the route trees create the passing lanes against certain defenses. They spend less time working on passing accuracy and mechanics, because accuracy and mechanics are going to be broken when they throw on the run 70% of the time.
@Charming Chowder lol he’s not worse than Vick so idk what you’re talking about, y’all be thinking Vick had that good of stats 🤣 I love Vick but Lamar could easily be better
I think teams provide better weapons for pocket qbs than mobile qbs.
Y’all are the best show on the air rn, actually diving into the issue and having an intellectual conversation about every topic. Keep it up!!!!
Really good segment! 😂 they said LBJ don’t bring that mess over here to the NFL. Y’all keep that over in the NBA 😆
These 2 are on a different level, I don't really listen to to much that ain't Raven's but I can listen to these dudes talk about anything. They make things interesting even if they aren't.
He could Win 2 and it would still exist
It doesn’t exist lmao
NO Bias vs Black QBs... just Bias vs QBs who Can't THROW well.
Omg ppl gonna criticize QBs who can’t throw good consistently🤯🤯🤯 it can’t be ,it have to be about race there’s no way😡🤬
I’m so tired of hearing about race. The divide among people is discouraging.
Sounds about white
@@ramonmabry You see someone tired of seeing people divided and your first thought is to say something racist to them. You need help, or maybe a backbone.
@@tacotacotington3638 only white ppl are tired of hearing about racism because they don't have to deal with it. What are you doing to help change it?
Making everything about race is the current agenda and it will continue until that agenda has accomplished its mission. Not saying it doesn’t exist in certain capacities but it is not prevalent everywhere which is what the media wants you to think.
@@tacotacotington3638 yeah people like that are stupid and will make everything about race if they can. An intelligent person would understand the only way to stop making it about color is to stop defaulting to color for excuses or talking points. It’s funny how quickly ideas disappear as soon as people start talking about it. Out of sight out of mind.
Sometimes when marcel is talking, it’s like he misplaced his speech and is buying time ahah
Marcellus*
That's exactly what hes doing. He's trying to read his notes
No disrespect
@@SolidMikeP
This is You Tube. People love to show disrespect. No worries!
Man, this is a tough question! I remember when Donavan McNabb was drafted and his first year playing... kind of bias going on there! Also remember as a kid around 1990. We loved Warren Moon and Randall Cunningham.
Dont forget the first brother to win it all in the 80s in as a starter in Doug WIlliams!
I was a big fan of Randall and had much respect for Moon.
Oh wow at the tail end they bring up Matt Jones, glad they did.
Who is Matt Jones?
@@Speedyreedy1218 big white dude that was a qb with a stupid arsenal at Arkansas. They converted him to wr and then he went on a drug binge after like 2 years. I would've loved to see him at qb. Or guys like Bubba Starling. He quit to play baseball
@@Jslowbro Wow. I'll have to look him up.
@@Speedyreedy1218 he was a bad man for the jags. But yeah that coke... smh
This is easily smartest debate show on tv period. These two guys go layers deep even tho I can’t Wiley lol he is a shape dude ..
I would give anything to see these guys debate (and subsequently destroy) Screamin A Smith
Hahaha. I agree. People tend to raise their voice when they know they are losing a debate. These guys stay calm and give intelligent responses and do a much better job of being objective.
Jackson has broken 3,000 yards and 30 TDs passing once in this career. His MVP season that he added 1200 yards on the ground. Dude has 3 passing TDs and 5 INTS in three playoff games. Dude hasn't amassed 10k passing yards after four seasons. The bias is that the Ravens don't know if he's the answer after four years of play.
👏👏👏
Sooooooo…….Peyton going 0-6 not bad? And him leading the league in interceptions weren’t bad? He’s 1-3 in the playoffs which is ok because it’s a TEAM game! He wasn’t letting Derrick Henry rush for over 180 yards. He wasn’t the one who missed 3 field goals in the bills playoff game. Yo just turned 25 let him grow. Doing all this without a top 10 receiver.
McDowell you have no idea what the Ravens don’t know. Lamar is his own agent and he is the one refusing to discuss his contract. Why would Lamar sign a long term contract with a team who cant seem to put together a line to protect him? Lamar is about to get 23 million this up coming year. Trust me, he is waiting to see what the Ravens do in the draft to fix that O line!
@@dariusmoore654 its always hypercrits Lamar career best ever so far at 25
@@dariusmoore654 really trying to compare Manning and Jackson?? Not a Manning fan at all, but Jackson will never be half as good, it’s skill set, nothing more
Wiley laugh wen acho said "my syllables" had me dying laughing
As a kid my favorite player was Warren Moon and I could've cared less what color he was.. It's like race baiting has gotten worse in the past few years
Yes agreed now not a single day can go by with out media mentioning racism or equality. or something black or white....why do you think that is.
@@stevedibiase728 They think it sells I guess. That's what media is trying to do is make money. Also dividing the population to control us as well I would think
@@nfallow34 👍😁👍
FUNNY U SHOULD SAY MOON? Not sure IF u read up on his "history", but RACIAL BIAS is why that amazing College QB had to play in Canada? He wasnt a Runnin' QB, & he had an amazing arm=racial bias. NO ONE "plays" the race card, they play the cards that are dealt.
@@N.a.j.i. You do know this is 2022 not 1970s, and there were Qbs of Color in the NFL before Moon. Rome enslaved every race they came across back in the day. I guess We should all go over there and tear it down now...because of How it was. Doesn't make sense Does it?? If You can't get beyond...how do expect anyone else 2. We must move forward, and only look back 2 see the mistakes. 👍😁👍
Very thoughtful and nuanced discussion. Both made points I hadn't considered. Good stuff.
6:50 He's talking about stephen a . I couldn't believe he thought haskins was a running qb lol
Doug Williams and Russel Wilson - Black QB - won super bowl - used receivers and running backs that whole game
Every other black QB in the league since Cordel Stewart , Vick, etc are scramble QB’s who need to stop leaning on their feet and lean on their weapons.
Cunningham and others prior made it further by not using their feet but their receivers and backs
Right! It’s not like Lamar Jackson is the only offensive weapon they have.
DeShaun Watson threw for 4900 yards two years ago. Mahomes has thrown for 5k yards and 50 TDs in a season and has had several great seasons, as has Wilson. Jameis has thrown for 5k yards in a season. McNabb was the first QB in decades to throw for 30+ TDs and less than 10 INTs in their Super Bowl season. Jackson and Newton have both thrown for 35+ TDs in a season. Cunningham, whom you mentioned also, had what was at the time one of the greatest passing seasons ever in his first year w/ the Vikes.Your statement is demonstrably false.
Steve Young, Russell Wilson, Arron Rodgers, Kapernick, among others all use they legs and get praised when they do. 🤡
Steve young used Jerry Rice, Rogers used Jennings .....
@@420EnochAlien Because they do it as an escape when the pocket collapses and they keep the drive alive. That’s a lot different from running the ball right when the ball is snapped, or everytime the first option on a play fails.
I never understood the idea of having the most important position in your offense giving up their bodies by running it. College qbs can get away with it, because defenses are not nearly as quick as the nfl. The ones that do it, tend to rely on it, and tend to get injured. If a running qb does ever win a superbowl, it will be the exception not the rule. That is not bias, that is fact. Bringing race into this is entirely unjustified.
Denial is the key to having no change. There is and always has been a color bias at the quarterback position. Lamar Jackson is the poster child for it. Though I do believe it’s gotten better and black quarterbacks are getting more respect, there’s still a bias for sure. College defenses not being nearly as quick is a bias, I’d argue younger means quicker but I digress. Is Steve young the exception ? Aaron Rodgers ? Russel Wilson ? Patrick Mahomes ? These are not the exception but the minority, there’s a difference. If there’s 25 Statues and 7 mobile quarterbacks then of course there will be more Super Bowl winning statue QBs. So your comment proved there’s a bias and also supports a racial bias because MOST mobile quarterbacks are black.
@@3030stick good point. Its aboup2 who constantly gets the opportunity to play the Qb position.
These two are by far underrated. They need a prim time slot.
I hate when people jump the gun to play the race card more than anyone, but of course there's a racial bias for QBs in the NFL. It's literally the only thing that can explain Trubisky being picked #2 overall in 2017, eight spots ahead of Mahomes and ten spots ahead of Deshaun. People trying hard to do some revisionist history and say that was all Ryan Pace, but it absolutely wasn't. Lots of mock drafts had Trubisky as the top QB that year, and allegedly the Bears front office wasn't the only front office who thought that. Yes, no one could have predicted Mahomes would be as good as he is, but Trubisky had one DECENT year on a perennial also-ran team in a bad conference. Meanwhile Mahomes led college football in a bunch of passing stats and threw for 700+ yds against a Sooners team that finished the season in the Top 5 in both polls. And we all know Deshaun's college pedigree. Trubisky was mocked and drafted high based on "potential" and "gut feeling"... Funny how that always seems to help the White QBs. Meanwhile Black QBs had better be the cream of the crop lest they be asked to change positions. White QBs are almost always given the benefit of the doubt compared to Black QBs.
💯🎯
Two Black QBs were picked before Tom Brady. Racism?
I think the only bias against Jackson is his 1-3 playoff record.
He played half the season in his rookie year the first time…
Also Favre an manning along with other qbs had a sorry playoff record early on. There’s plenty of young qbs n the league now who haven’t even been n the playoffs but the media an fans aren’t hating on them.
The year he could of won it, the center purposely hikes the ball over Lamar’s head at least 3 times. The ultimate set up for failure!
Purposely? Purposely? Cmon bruh
Hahaha Hahahahahaha 🤣 🤣......Stop
The NFL is rigged
lol. Cause it's rigged, huh?
@@videoorgy It is, obviously, Dolphin's and there "incentives". But: Patriots, Rams, Broncos, Titans, Packers. Just too name a few have been caught trying to be "Sneaky" in the association. The NFL is rigged but in my opinion I believe Majority sports are rigged. I mean even Tyron Woodley and his "fight" with Jake. Nobody completely drops guard and braces full body. Anyhow, there's too much scheming for folks too care. Everyone gets paid & it's still entertaining.
No. Goalposts will still be moved with Lamar no matter what lol. That's what critics do. They'll always find ways to criticize, but it'll be to a new element
I mean, he won't be immune to criticism. No athlete is. But winning a Super Bowl would be a huge deal no one can take away.
One thing about Acho's "going to the board" argument, is that the number of QBs that have well over 6 passing yards for every 1 running yard and don't have a super bowl win probably far outnumbers the number of QBs that are over that ration and do have super bowl wins.
And for Wiley, Mahommes is black enough but Kaepernick wasn't?
Karpernick didn't win though
@@shadowrksstudiosandenterta4520 Showing you don't know why he said Kaepernick wasn't black enough.
Not percentage wise
His board had. 0% had a super bowl
The argument is at least qbs over the 6 pass yards per rush have all sb wins, no qb under that threshold has won or had consistent playoff runs. I’ll take the qb who’s style has lead to every sb win over the electric rushing qb who none have actually won the actual goal of a sb
@@tyler6843 And if the argument were truly valid as that being the reason, then you'd see see more QBs with super bowls, or you should have seen QBs that have never gotten close to where those examples have gotten do better. Or in other words, confirmation bias I believe is the term.
Because, once again this could be a chance for "what about Trent Folder?!!" fans to bring him having a super bowl and Dan Marino not having one. And Marino really didn't run at all. Neither did Dan Fours. Nor Jim Kelly. Nor Bernie Kosar. Nor Matt Ryan.
0:11 "The bias that does not exist"
0:34 "bias will always be in existence"
0:36-0:46 "every position, every player, no matter what you do it will have bias. And there will always be a level of bias"
Not even a minute into the clip and already he contradicting himself.
You are being really dishonest. In the first quote he talked about how there is no such thing as a bias against black qbs. In the second and 3rd quotes the point is bias, overall, will always exist for everyone and something like a sb ring will never change that. His point is that Lamar is wrong twice basically “there is no such bias and even if there was you getting a ring ain’t going to change that”
@@arturzinurov4781 Do you read what you write?
By saying bias will always exist >OVERALL
@@Dee-jd6ym don’t break your back with such nonsense mental gymnastics there buddy. Overall means generally or macro or high level it doesn’t mean every single thing nobody uses it like that. I get it tho that’s literally the only way you can complain about fictional bias that doesn’t exist anymore. Please continue thinking that bias against black qbs exists when Lamar won 1st unanimous mvp, and Russel and Patrick are ones of the best paid qbs in the league all the while countless black qbs were taken 1st over all.
Marcellus' argument is flawed because his approach is the same argument that some YT-peepo use that racism does exist because there are a few successful Black people.
You're only 13% of the population... so there's going to be fewer successful blacks...
Try harder next time.
@@brothergrimaldus3836 apparently my point leaped over you. Maybe you should take a nap, and when you wake up re-read it and you'll get it that time. SMH.
There will always be bias and stereotypes in sports , Shannon calls Luka Baby Bird, because he's white, he plays nothing like Bird..Shannon assumes most white qbs like Mac Jones are unathletic even though he ran the same 40 time as Mahomes. It goes both ways at this point..
Mac jones ran the same 40 as Mahomes I didn’t know that he looks so stiff 😂
Shannon calls him baby bird not just because he white, but because he white, you know he the focal point and he still gonna give it to you and you can’t stop it. That’s why when Luka play the clippers(he always goes off on them) he start smiling at skip trying to get under his skin. He don’t praise other white guys the same but gives them their credit. But Shannon says luka will be the next great white face of the NBA like Byrd. He talking impact not play style
Thank you Marcellus...👑
So much bias Lamar Jackson was the first unanimous MVP. Tim Tebow won the Heisman and everyone said he should switch positions but it's racist if anyone said Lamar should have.
The face of the nfl is mixed . Come on Marcellus wiley be more specific !!!!
1. The narrative exists because black QBs run more than throw
2. TB12 among others are proof that running isn't actually a necessary QB trait, but CAN be useful
3. Lamar winning an SB would validate the RUNNING QB. Not really about race.
Extra point, if Lamar were to win an SB by throwing and less rush yards he wouldn't even be proving anything new
People don't really think of Mahomes like that, but Wiley is disproving his own point. You shouldn't have to have seasons like ones Mahomes, Jackson, or LeBron have had to be seen the same
I'm afraid there is no real overall bias in terms of talent at QB with black QBs. Watson, Mahomes, Wilson, Prescott are top paid QBs and Watson aside, respected QBs.
Jackson himself won a unanimous MVP which is an opinion poll, essentially, of 50 NFL media people.
The bias is against running QBs, Allen, with standing he is primarily a passer who can run if need be.
Acho and Wiley right on this one.
Warren Moon must have been the best black quarterback to play the game. I know he never won superbowl, but he sure was
exciting. Moon remind me of Peyton Manning.
The BEST nfl and europe QB of our time but he gets slated from his accomplishments due to non SB appearance but he had to win 7 grey cups overseas before entering the NFL smh
@@vincentcoleman4764 Moon played in the CFL. Canada...Not "overseas". Moon won 5 straight Grey Cups, not 7.
@@MCfact1827 u said all that to say what? Lol smh he still had to prove himself before entering the NFL
@@vincentcoleman4764 I know Moon was discriminated against from a shot at being drafted so he was forced to go up to Canada. I was correcting you.
You were way off with your comments. If someone else saw them they'd say you don't know what you're about. They'd question your credibility about Moon.
So instead of coming at me, you should be saying ...thanks for the correction.
Marcellus Wiley is one of the most intelligent guys on TV period! Not just sports!
Number one Lamar didn't say that ,.watch LeBron undisputed somebody else said it and Lamar said that's why i need a championship
So he agreed to the statement… and said “that’s why I need a championship.”
@@MasonMcGowan95 It'd a difference between saying something and than.a person saying that's why I need a championship. AND IF HE DID SO WHAT like who are you he can say what he wanna say
@@tonjabowman7208 but you just made a comment saying he didn’t say that. Now that you know he agreed and answered to that question you’re upset at me? Lol you’re right, so what if he said it. But you’re the one claiming he didn’t? Tell me this, if he didn’t agree to that, why didn’t he say “I don’t think there’s a racial bias at quarterback in this league anymore?” Don’t try and get snippy online now just because your comment put you in a predicament.
Lmaoooo “SO WHAT IF HE SAID IT!” *also original comment* “HE DIDNT SAY THAT” 😂😂😂
@@MasonMcGowan95 Exactly he didn't but who cares he can say what he wants .If that was what he thinks that's his opinion .
It's crazy how the Ravens have 2 SB wins with 2 quarterbacks nobody cares to talk about or remember and they haven't lost a SB either (so far)
They are a new franchise still tbh thats why they weren't around to play the power house teams of the 70s 80s and early 90s
@@raiderss32ez26 yeah Ray Lewis and the defense gave them a personality
Great topic and that's what my favorite thing about these guys and show. The intelligence level of this bubble is noticably higher than any other of the same categorization. Love the show
Literally the only sports debate show that actually debates. These dudes go AT IT and I also appreciate the gems they drop constantly.
This show is horrible.
💯
@@Bambino_60 hater
@@Bambino_60 is what it is. Not everything for everyone. But if you spend enough time watching other "sports debate" i promise you'll quickly see the difference. First take is just who can get louder etc. These guys are just on another level. For sure but everyone will let it for various reasons
A lot of Columbus cadets mad in the comments 🤣
😂😂
Well I will say this, A white wide receiver just won the Superbowl MVP and a beast and had maybe the greatest season in history. Not too many white wide receivers. But I think that much like the black quarterback situation has changed. Also count the white cornerbacks. So there is a bias on multiple fronts in the NFL. But it's a lot of black "analyst" and "pundits" that don't like/respect Lamar Jackson's game.
I agree biase goes both way ways. I literally think white analyst are scared to say Lamar needs to work on accuracy. So like Stephen A and mabye Acho are the only ones who will say it and they constantly get ridiculed for it.
@@soda8736 I can tell ur not black😂
@@420EnochAlien but he's right tho
He wins games tho. And has had a perfect passer rating more than once. Every QB don’t have to play the same slow statue way lol if you got more athletic abilities then them then use em duh
@@soda8736 There are things Lamar can get better at but he is far from the only quarterback that are in that category. The has been a lot of bad quarterback play in the NFL. Lamar for the most part has played well, but at times in my opinion he gets over criticized. These days the "so called" good or great quarterbacks get undressed by good or great defenses. Brady once the 2013 hit decided he was gonna slant you to death and check it down. Drop back within three seconds have 4 dudes get open and just pick either one every play. Which was smart.
They don’t consider Patrick black
This has nothing to do with race. This has to do with running QBs. Running QBs don't win rings.
They win plenty of games. Just not SBs
Wilson won a ring. Kap got to the Super bowl. Steve young won a ring. ESPN did a documentary about how black QBs were looked at as not smart enough and didn’t want them to be the leaders. Do ur research guy. 🤡
@@420EnochAlien the top paid & successful qbs right now nd for the last decade has been blk qb's. U & LeBron Quit bitching like its still 1968
They can win it's just a ratio of more pocket to runners
@@Atlas365247 2000*
Doug Williams removed that bias. Lamar needs to win a SB to remove the bias against running QBs like Vick, Kaep, Cam, and Lamar.
Wiley is sounding like Larry Elder! That high paying job will do it to you!
People don't like truth, they would rather say we're victims and there nothing we can do about it. As if there something wrong with being self determined and not looking for excuses. Name won negative of that mindest?
@@soda8736 *one and you’re right.
😂😂😂😂😂
@@soda8736 Cause the weak blacks use the race card as a crutch, just like weak whites use daddy n mommy as a crutch.Strong blacks, whites,etc just take their licks n keep it moving..This generation is so soft
Let me guess,u think you're being oppressed n are being hunted ? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I feel you Acho because I've been told the same thing
The bias still exists. No where near what it has been historically. But there definitely is still racial bias.
Ofcourse it is
One of the better debates.
They will still use it to say he isn't a complete QB and he's a "athlete" that throws when he has to.
And that would be a factual statement, he isn't a complete qb
But thats a fact. Not racism. Hes a good rb that can run option plays and some simple concepts. He absolutely cannot live and win in the pocket. League adjusted to him. He has yet to counter by being a pocket qb.
Tell me the last 50 sb qb winners? All pocket passers who in the sb won it with pocket throws. Russ won in a blowout. Didnt need to play pocket qb that game. Tho he has developed into a great passer imo who run only when he has to
Mr. Ohio, newsflash. Lamar is not great at throwing a football. Get your eyes checked. Racism has nothing to do with it.
Lamar Jackson is 25 years old. He's probably been playing QB for 18 years of his life. Is that enough experience. NUFF SAID!!!!
The bias definitely still exists, cause it was expected that Lamar Jackson should change positions and couldn't succeed at QB. What is happening in the league right now is essentially tokenism. The only Black QB to win a SB in recent years and to be credited with it is Patrick Mahomes. Russell Wilson won on the back of the Legion of Boom!
Lmao be quiet Tim Tebow was asked about changing positions before the draft too and so have so many other players, there is no biased Patrick mahomes is literally black is literally the most beloved players in the league , deshaun Watson before the legal situation was one of the most beloved players in the league , lmao stop it
@@ryandennis8366 because Tim Tebow legit can't throw a football, which is kind of a necessary requirement to be a QB. FOH!!!
@@Mr10before9 lmao and some can say the same about Lamar, also it’s funny how u go past everything else I said too,
@@ryandennis8366 I didn't read anything else, got a notification and read as much as it said, clicked reply...
Overall three is bias at the Qb position.
Great segment Acho and Wiley! Thank you for always being REAL. 💯
“The greatest weapon in the hand of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.” ~Steve Biko I like Mr Wiley, but he is lost on this one... Only thing I would say, no matter where you are from or how high you rise, as long as you are Black skinned, you will never be viewed equally as your European counterparts. And the moment you think you are beyond that, as a Black person, you are lost. Acho did a great job carefully balancing his take; Respect
Lavar Jackson is playing the race car because he can't get the job done. Russell Wilson and Patrick Mahomes won Super bowls boulevard can I even win a playoff game. There is no oppressors because these black men athletes in the NFL are making far more than their white teammates and are multi-millionaires but they're oppressed????😂
The NFL and NBA has reduced more black millionaires than any business in America and they have generational wealth, that oppressor nonsense is nothing but an excuse for people to point the finger and blame someone else instead of being accountable for their own actions. And don't dare think that I'm a white person leaving this comment 👍🏿
@@itsintheword2818 One that’s false, most highest paid position is QB, and last I checked it was more White QBs than blacks QBs despite the NFL mainly being black. So statistically blacks have more players, but it’s more whites at the highest paid position. I don’t know what race you are but you definitely overlooked or omitted an obvious fact.
Lamar isn’t making excuses, he knows he has to get it done. He’s not a pocket passes, but despite leading the league in passing TDs, he still got called a runner and bad passer without anyone crediting him improving his 60% completion to 65%. He instead got criticized for running less and his rushing yards declining(most said it’s not sustainable run less and learn to throw) Lamar knows he has to win a chip because no matter what he does, he won’t get his praise so he has to win
This is one of the most clear, nuanced and intelligent debates about a racial issue I've ever seen on a network. I agree there is a lot of racial bias in society still, but not every bias is inherently coming from racism, and some stuff can also go the other direction. But also it's not crazy for Lamar to think that way, and things still need to improve in many areas. I haven't seen much of this show but I'm now a major fan, like this goes beyond sports, these guys are setting an example that major news networks need take notes from. Thank you
For god sake!
This is getting out of hand.
Never seen a QB get scrutinize and critiqued on everything he say and do.
There are 31other starting QB's in NFL you can create content from.
Lamar Jackson is talking about being asked to play a different position in the NFL after winning the Heisman trophy as a quarterback. Mick Vick was asked to play a different position in the NFL when he was drafted.
Julian Edelman and some white dude in 2018 draft were asked to change their positions too. So it’s not even a skin colour thing Lamar is trying to make it out to be.
I loved the conversation, but I don't get calling the 'ratio bias' a bias at all. If what you are defining as a true running QB has never won the Super Bowl, and if Lamar fits that definition, then to me it's perfectly reasonable to say we are not going to pay you that type of money. Especially when you consider 'running QB's' have statistically not lasted as long as your typical QB.
Now if a team is paying a white running QB top dollar, that would be entirely different. But then you cross over to being a racial bias. I just think calling it a ratio bias was trying to be a little too clever. And I say that very much liking Acho's take on most things.
Josh Allen. After they built him a super bowl team.😂🤣
@@43msd Allen could be considered a running QB for his rookie year, but they didn't pay him after his rookie year. Since then, he has not been a 'running QB', at least not by Acho's definition (passing yds/rushing yds), although he is certainly a QB who can run. As for the Ravens, they already are a SB caliber team.
@@joesebol1425 763 yards isn’t a running quarterback ?😂 The Ravens had 4 losing seasons before Lamar. The coach was going to be fired after the season. They were losing that year until Lamar took over and finished 6 out of 7. That team had more weapons than this team, so no they aren’t super bowl caliber team. They do however have a super bowl caliber quarterback. Acho is famous for making stats say what he wants. Everyone knows that the ravens doesn’t have top nfl players except for Lamar. If you put him on any top 10 team, and call real plays to win; he would have already won a super bowl.👍🏽😂🤣
@@43msd I'm not saying Lamar doesn't deserver to get paid. And I'm not saying Allen isn't a running quarterback. I'm saying according to Acho's definition, Allen isn't one. The cutoff he gave is certainly somewhat arbitrary, so if you want to adjust the definition such that Allen does fit into the running QB group, I have no problem with that. (But likewise, your definition will also be arbitrary.) And at that point, maybe there is an argument that a white running QB is getting paid but a black running QB is not. But at that point, it is a racial bias, not a ratio bias.
@@joesebol1425 that’s something he made up to fit his narrative. Even so Josh fits because his passing yards are 5.7 to 1 rushing yard. That’s less than 6 , but they both deserve to be paid.
Stop acting like it's been fair for black quarterbacks the whole time.
sometimes I wish Marcel would just get to his point. I generally agree with him, I just wish he didn't use so much nuance to make his point.
His show is in America. You may not need the nuance, but God help the rest of us.
The only way there won’t be biased is if all nfl players and coaches are black. That’s what they want
He needs a sb ring to remove the bias against himself lol . Pat mahomes & russle Wilson already proved that point for black Quarterbacks in the league.
Doug Williams won a SB.
How could u forget the first black QB to win a SB brother lol...Big Doug proved it way before them
He could win 10 Super Bowls and it wouldn't change a thing. They don't want one period.
Facts!!
I love Marcellus. Not willing or allowing himself to be joined in the victim hood narrative. Patrick Mahomes, Russell Wilson, Desean Watson (before his off the field issues) heck even Dak Prescott, are among the most highly paid QB’s in the NFL. Lamar and Kyler Murray are more than likely going to join that group. So that definitely supports the belief that the NFL is still biased against the black quarterback 🤔
preach!!
Wiley. Stop being a sellout. White OT and centers are drafted more because they are “ smarter”. Black RB and WR are drafted cause they are “ faster “. It’s a FACT.
Face of the NFL is black and he’s a SB winning QB?! What is Lamar talking about?
But he's also white,so Lamar has to make it about being " BLACK" ....its that woke bs
@@arkhamknight6371 lamar didn’t say that so he didn’t make it anything the media did
Aaron Rodgers is still the face of the nfl
Mixed , and I’m not saying Mahomes isn’t black but he isn’t perceived that way
@@doobie176 he is not
Marcellus Wiley thinks he is such an intellectual. Also, his just said Patrick Mahomes is black. Meanwhile a few years ago, Colin Kaepernick wasn't black enough when he was kneeling on behalf of black folks, according Marcellus Wiley.
So what about the biased in basketball
There’s no biases in basketball!
Who suffers from more racial bias today?
1) A Black quarterback
2) A White running back
I am going to Drop the Mic 🎤 right here, imagine if Burrow, Herbert, or Allen had Lamar's 2019 season. People still hate Lamar for no reason.
U do know its 2022 Jackson fans are stuck in 2019 but don't want to talk about the 2020 & 2021 season which he has gotten worse since 2019
@@alpharob6959 Herbert or Burrow don't have rings either so until they get 1 I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear about anything else. I give Burrow credit for getting to the Superbowl though but second place is still second place. What has Herbert done???
Cause Jackson falls apart In the playoffs..one season don't make your career. So pick the mic back up n hand it to your mom,she got better takes
@@raynmaker629 Herbert has been way more consistent than fragile, noodle arm lamar
@@raynmaker629 I'm Allen guy if the Bills didn't play prevent defense burrow wouldn't been in a SB and what they see in herbert he's getting better a bad coach decision cost him a playoff spot and the guy only played 2 seasons and a better passer than Jackson
“The bias does not exist” well said video is done for me.
Acho bringing up that he doesn’t know what Lamar meant ?… they were literally talking about race bias not “ratio”…and Dwayne Haskins example was “Stephen A” ironically….
Marcellus your wrong...they wanted him to be a wide receiver remember
Most of those black QBs never had a top 5 or a great Wideout! Steve Young had Jerry Rice and Russell Wilson had a all time great defense... oh and 49s has a top 5 defense as well with Deion Sanders
BAL had a top5 D in 2020 n up until this yr had a Great D and top Secondary and at times a Very good Oline when people were healthy. He had 2 Top Tackles before one asked to be traded has a top3 TE and prob will be a HOF TE. He just sucks throwing outside so WRs dont want to play with him
Randal Cunningham had two hall of fame wrs in Chris Carter n Randy Moss.Two of the top 10 wrs in history,n Randal lost..Do better research
You clearly do not know what you're talking about. Lavar had his chance and had great receivers and running backs but it's his style of play that is kept him out of the Super bowl. How many playoff games has he even won?
Arkham Knight yes but there defense was below 10th your not winning if you can’t stop anyone... Rams bucs before that...
Podcasts, MMA,Sports the 1st year I’ll give youths to but injuries started to pile up the next year and who was his AB or Hill...and his offensive coordinator hasn’t won anything... it’s a team game he’s had the most wins of any QB in his 1 3 seasons!
Exactly Marcellus
Y’all know dam well…. Just like the white corner back is looked at the Black QB is Serbs the same way
But nobody but pure old school racist think that. Its a sctsmbler bias not a black qb bias. And the white cb and black qb would get respect if they balled out .
Is everyone forgetting Mahomes is black....or is he not black enough. Mahomes is a pocket passer tho. Not a scramble first qb
It's Ratio. Good point. Speakin' the truth.
You guys are amazing together. And I hope this isn't taken the wrong way. Most of the time it's not 2 black hosts. SFY after Shay Shay and skip and the odd couple on radio. I think fox sports tries give the best man the job.
Wiley is playing the white man role. Don't get it confused
@@barrysmythe6941 because he is intelligent and can debate very objectively? That’s not nice. 🤣
Such a great conversation!!
Best sports show on TV; they always bring up great points and fun to watch