Matt: I think the Cayman is the best "sports car" for the $ anywhere. S, GTS, GT4, GT4-RS Your will go down, but when Porsche goes hybrid or EV. Then, everyone will want what they can't have. As you said, "I am keeping the car and tracking it." Enjoy every time you drive it. The downturn is just the buyers that got the allocation and never wanted to keep it anyway.
Its such a rough pick. I think its because for the same money you can get a GT3... I know its not as special but the 911 body is just THAT famous. I cant talk from experience because I havent driven a GT4RS but coming from a GT4 into a GT3, its definitely a good different experience. Which might just explain why the "demand" is so low when it comes to the 4RS second hand. Either way, I think when it hits the right price, people might start jumping into them.
Agreed. It's important to remember all the things you enjoy about the gt4, mid engine and size...is now complimented by one of the best NA power plants Porsche has ever offered. That is the only reason why i would argue its a near perfect car.
It is a good day! Chiming in from Park City, Utah. My GT4RS was delivered at the end of September. I couldn't agree with you more about holding on to the 4RS. It is a special car, never one before and probably never another. If you remember on the Carrera GT it went down in value around '09-'12 and has since skyrocketed in value. I know the 4RS is not a Carrera GT, but it will be a legend in Porsche Lore down the road 10 to 15 years when everything is a quite, sedate, EV. I think the 4RS drop in price is just a sentiment or a barometer of the overall economy and a little too much speculation on the initial ADM to get into one of these cars...
I’ve been saying the exact same thing. Not just Carrera GT, but in every financial downturn the cars not being sold and appreciated as on should’ve expected, they come back with a vengeance. Look at the -84 Carrera CS, the 87-88 959, the -92-93 964 RS and the Carrera GT. All these cars were not selling like hotcakes at the time, sitting at dealer lots somewhat misunderstood, but now selling for crazy overs. Not saying the GT4RS isn’t understood, but I think people haven’t really understood how insanely special it is. I’ve drive the 992GT3RS and no way would I trade my GT4RS for one. It’s far from as entertaining as the 4RS, which is just a hooligan grade car. There’s nothing like it out there, and there never will be again. I call double MSRP in 5-10 yrs time and triple in 15 yrs.
Its been 7 months and still not dropping........all over atleast $50k above msrp. It will continue to stay up there. 2025 is last year of ICE cayman and boxster series. I went in and asked to purchase spyder rs at msrp(190k with options). They asked 40k over. Ended up getting 718 spyder 6spd for 120k.
Bought my GT4RS PTS Riviera Blue, Weissach package, PCCB and mag wheels at MSRP. One of the best Porsche purchases in my life. GT4RS is a sheer great car.
I have a GTS 4.0. I love it. But the 4RS is awesome. I do 75% street/daily and 25% track. How is it for cruising around the city? Would I be dumb trading my GTS 4.0 for one as it might be too hardcore for daily?
@@glucia2223I have mine in Germany, track it %90 of the time. Did 4 roadtrips to Netherlands, its very loud at 7th gear after 130 km, not ideal for daily imo
Wow ! Liked and subscribed … total gear head and started going to the track at 23..currently 52..have several things in common with you… but I’m in Canada! Grew up in a restaurant but didn’t have a dad so my love for cars started with matchbox… have currently have 4 Porsche cars ..and others like you have had and owned but in my case haven’t sold .. started at track in my first Porsche with 911 1970 the bought another 911 1977 ..then wrx sti that I turned into a race car …then bought first generation corvette C6 zr1 ..then like you because dream car poster on my wall growing up was 911 turbo .. bought 1997 Porsche turbo (and agree with you although not the same year as yours wasn’t a good track car) then like you bought Nissan GT-R 2014 black edition..in my case never did launch control only track… then believe it or not bought a 2018 GT2RS yes a Porsche GT2RS…incredible track car and even better when you run Hoosiers on it ..changed mags for 19 inch all around..current track tool..then or now better said my local track has a 92 decibels limit grrrr! The GT2RS in going to pick up my kid at school mode fails and black flag ! Sucks balls! So just bought another Nisan GTR this one is a 2017 track edition.. and bless me no decibel black flag last summer…never got into golf lol … spent my time making money to buy farm…why? For the barns!!! Not a farmer I rent the land… but have a big enough garage for all cars mentioned above.. still have all of them and also store my sister’s 2 Porsche gt4’s …when I got the chance to buy GT2RS was looking at the mclaren 720s ..but chose the Porsche…glad I did ! See other track members with mclarens and reliability seems like an issue… thanks for your videos and you have great taste in cars!! Currently a cook so moved up from dishwasher in my beginnings.. joke aside being a cook was the way I made enough money to buy first 911 …then got into IT ..before RUclips existed most people didn’t believe in IT …how wrong they were… Thanks again!
As usual bought mine at MSRP. Absolutely love it, one of my favorite Porsches ever. Highly recommend anyone getting one if price is right, it’s a crazy good car that makes you laugh every time you drive it. In the bigger picture, Porsche needs to do a better job of weeding some of these serial flippers from getting allocations.
I am actually shocked that GT4RS prices are so soft, for years cayman fans were crying rivers for a good engine and cars are available. Epic engine, short PDK , unique sound , what else?
The marketing that it has always been inferior to 911. Plus the aesthetic of the 911 is better...my guess is the 4rs will be one to keep for all the reasons mentioned above.
Is winter affecting purchasing decisions resulting in cars remaining stagnant at dealer lots? Will that change as better seasons for driving approaches ?
Of course you will lose money if you pay over msrp. Andreas, the chief of Porsche GT keeps saying these are NOT limited production cars. Most are selling at MSRP to their preferred customers. If you couldn't wait and had to be one of the first owners, you paid over msrp. In Europe, Porsche GT car prices are already plummeting.
Hmmm.. 4RS's dropping? It's all relative. What was the sticker price on these cars? Base price is about 145K plus options. So these cars are probably 175-180K sticker cars you are looking at. So at 230K these cars are still being sold way above retail even after they have miles on them. And you can bet they are getting their ADM's back. So yes, not a 100K over but a very nice return. They will continue drop until production stops which is about now. Then they will stay flat for a year or so. They should start the slow increase again 5-8 years later. I am using the 997.2 RS's as a rough guide. By the time they were 10 years old they were 100k over. Whether this is that car or not remains to be seen.
One viewer did a carrera t, lowered it and did an exhaust. - i thought that was a clever way to get mostly there. Im a fan of anything manual at the moment...
My local dealer has that one guy who they sell to for MSRP cause he get the latest GT car and as soon as the next one comes out he trades it back in for his next order. Sure they have a loyal customer, but he takes up every first allocation and no one else can even get one unless you want to buy his used spec. On his GT3 RS that hes going to trade back is us Python Green with Red decals so I hope the next buyer likes Christmas all year.
do you happen to know how much percentage wise he gets back in on trade in and what is the sales tax situation is in your state regarding whether or not the sales tax takes the trade in value off the purchase price of the new GT car?
@@carlfrederick8433 the state charges full value on alll sells. Dealer. Always sells for market on the used but not sure what they give on trade I know he only pays MSRP.
Still seems like they can get it assuming you are able to spec the car and not buy someone else's. Id push back and show them the "adjusted market pricing" needs to be adjusted...
40-50k ADM is never reasonable. This is what happens when people buy by speculation or worse just to flip. The fact that porsche allows this practice is rediculous. As soon as people with more money than sense stop paying these ADM's the sooner the dealers will have to sell at MSRP. Prices are continuing to fall.
226,000 dollars for a Cayman ! Albeit very special but to also learn prices are going down but it’s not surprising given they were selling for 100,000 above sticker price and I lost my car to a guy who paid 250,000 euros for technically my car !! He gazumped me or outbid me but I was not paying a quarter of a million for a Cayman plain and simple .
Black Leather race tex w/arctic gray Weissach Front axle lift Fire extinguisher Luggage net for passenger footwell Smoking package Light design package Deletion of SiriusXM antenna Bose surround Door trim package in leather/race tex Window triangle trim in carbon. (Dont do) Chrono package Leipzig European delivery (actually on window sticker) Door pulls in black Brake calipers in high gloss black Wheels painted in satin black Instrument dials in white Sun visors in race-tex Preparation for porsche dash-cam Door sill guards in carbon, illuminated in yellow $176,870 + $50,000adm
Thank you for sharing! I have been watching your channel and decided to pull the trigger on a used GT4RS! I just watched your track set up video. I have been a PCA instructor for 20+ yrs but this will be my first time owning a Cayman platform. Very excited! @@ignitionontheleft
@@Alex-dz6xw Sam A reckons it’s a track car and I would likely never track it! It would be a lot of money for me to spend, assuming I’ll be able to? If it’s worth more in years to come it will be a bonus for my kids rather than me, decisions, decisions🫣
@@connect4558 yes. Its more like a future investment...and you can have some fun on the road in the meanwhile..just make sure to keep the miles down haha
At the end of the day it’s still a cayman and like it or not the GT3 still has a prestige over them so they will drop hard especially for the flippers who financed 80% and need to fire sale it to get out
@@ignitionontheleft definitely aesthetics and just where it falls in the pecking order. Don’t get me wrong. I appreciate the car and its abilities. However, when it first came out, it was awesome when we saw one. About 4 months later I saw 8 or 9 of them at a local cars and coffee. They just don’t do it for me.
@@SF_Nativeso misunderstood about the pecking order. The GT4RS throws such considerations out the window and the GT4RS is so much more entertaining to drive than the 992GT3RS. Especially on public roads, where you’re at for the most part, but even on the track it’s a more lively, acoustic and thrilling drive due to it’s lack of clever trickery which the 992GT3RS has in spades and which makes it kinda boring because it’s so clinical to drive. Also the 3RS is just one in a long line of cars and soon it’s “bettered” by the 992.2GT3RS. Bettered meaning faster. These cars are so fast anyway that faster to many isn’t a valid point no more. We want to be entertained, and no car does that better than the GT4RS
@@Nord_Mann How is the pecking order misunderstood? The numbers alone tell you where it falls. GT2> GT3 > GT4. The Cayman was a middle step between the Boxster and the 911. Slightly better than the Boxster, but not quite a 911. Whether for street or track, if the 992 RS is in capable hands, there's not much comparison. Personally, I like the older generation 997 RS and even the 996 RS. In my opinion those were the last true enthusiast GT cars.
Matt: I think the Cayman is the best "sports car" for the $ anywhere. S, GTS, GT4, GT4-RS Your will go down, but when Porsche goes hybrid or EV. Then, everyone will want what they can't have. As you said, "I am keeping the car and tracking it." Enjoy every time you drive it. The downturn is just the buyers that got the allocation and never wanted to keep it anyway.
Its an easy car to keep
Its such a rough pick. I think its because for the same money you can get a GT3... I know its not as special but the 911 body is just THAT famous. I cant talk from experience because I havent driven a GT4RS but coming from a GT4 into a GT3, its definitely a good different experience. Which might just explain why the "demand" is so low when it comes to the 4RS second hand. Either way, I think when it hits the right price, people might start jumping into them.
Agreed. It's important to remember all the things you enjoy about the gt4, mid engine and size...is now complimented by one of the best NA power plants Porsche has ever offered. That is the only reason why i would argue its a near perfect car.
It is a good day! Chiming in from Park City, Utah. My GT4RS was delivered at the end of September. I couldn't agree with you more about holding on to the 4RS. It is a special car, never one before and probably never another. If you remember on the Carrera GT it went down in value around '09-'12 and has since skyrocketed in value. I know the 4RS is not a Carrera GT, but it will be a legend in Porsche Lore down the road 10 to 15 years when everything is a quite, sedate, EV. I think the 4RS drop in price is just a sentiment or a barometer of the overall economy and a little too much speculation on the initial ADM to get into one of these cars...
I think you are right. I also love PC, you live in a good spot for sure
I’ve been saying the exact same thing. Not just Carrera GT, but in every financial downturn the cars not being sold and appreciated as on should’ve expected, they come back with a vengeance. Look at the -84 Carrera CS, the 87-88 959, the -92-93 964 RS and the Carrera GT. All these cars were not selling like hotcakes at the time, sitting at dealer lots somewhat misunderstood, but now selling for crazy overs. Not saying the GT4RS isn’t understood, but I think people haven’t really understood how insanely special it is. I’ve drive the 992GT3RS and no way would I trade my GT4RS for one. It’s far from as entertaining as the 4RS, which is just a hooligan grade car. There’s nothing like it out there, and there never will be again. I call double MSRP in 5-10 yrs time and triple in 15 yrs.
Its been 7 months and still not dropping........all over atleast $50k above msrp. It will continue to stay up there. 2025 is last year of ICE cayman and boxster series.
I went in and asked to purchase spyder rs at msrp(190k with options). They asked 40k over. Ended up getting 718 spyder 6spd for 120k.
i have my money ready love to see them at 200
Thats a good number
Bought my GT4RS PTS Riviera Blue, Weissach package, PCCB and mag wheels at MSRP. One of the best Porsche purchases in my life. GT4RS is a sheer great car.
Sweet jesus, congrats. You spent your over on extras and options. Seems like a clever way we all win.🥇 🤔
I have a GTS 4.0. I love it. But the 4RS is awesome. I do 75% street/daily and 25% track. How is it for cruising around the city? Would I be dumb trading my GTS 4.0 for one as it might be too hardcore for daily?
@@glucia2223I have mine in Germany, track it %90 of the time. Did 4 roadtrips to Netherlands, its very loud at 7th gear after 130 km, not ideal for daily imo
Wow ! Liked and subscribed … total gear head and started going to the track at 23..currently 52..have several things in common with you… but I’m in Canada! Grew up in a restaurant but didn’t have a dad so my love for cars started with matchbox… have currently have 4 Porsche cars ..and others like you have had and owned but in my case haven’t sold .. started at track in my first Porsche with 911 1970 the bought another 911 1977 ..then wrx sti that I turned into a race car …then bought first generation corvette C6 zr1 ..then like you because dream car poster on my wall growing up was 911 turbo .. bought 1997 Porsche turbo (and agree with you although not the same year as yours wasn’t a good track car) then like you bought Nissan GT-R 2014 black edition..in my case never did launch control only track… then believe it or not bought a 2018 GT2RS yes a Porsche GT2RS…incredible track car and even better when you run Hoosiers on it ..changed mags for 19 inch all around..current track tool..then or now better said my local track has a 92 decibels limit grrrr! The GT2RS in going to pick up my kid at school mode fails and black flag ! Sucks balls! So just bought another Nisan GTR this one is a 2017 track edition.. and bless me no decibel black flag last summer…never got into golf lol … spent my time making money to buy farm…why? For the barns!!! Not a farmer I rent the land… but have a big enough garage for all cars mentioned above.. still have all of them and also store my sister’s 2 Porsche gt4’s …when I got the chance to buy GT2RS was looking at the mclaren 720s ..but chose the Porsche…glad I did ! See other track members with mclarens and reliability seems like an issue… thanks for your videos and you have great taste in cars!! Currently a cook so moved up from dishwasher in my beginnings.. joke aside being a cook was the way I made enough money to buy first 911 …then got into IT ..before RUclips existed most people didn’t believe in IT …how wrong they were…
Thanks again!
Wow what a story! Love the effort and hustle. Cheers!
As usual bought mine at MSRP. Absolutely love it, one of my favorite Porsches ever. Highly recommend anyone getting one if price is right, it’s a crazy good car that makes you laugh every time you drive it. In the bigger picture, Porsche needs to do a better job of weeding some of these serial flippers from getting allocations.
Agreed on all fronts and congrats on msrp!
I ordered my 2022 Cayman GTS at the peak market. And I don’t ever intend to sell and that right there is a huge value.
Same, 2022 GTS as well.
I am actually shocked that GT4RS prices are so soft, for years cayman fans were crying rivers for a good engine and cars are available. Epic engine, short PDK , unique sound , what else?
The marketing that it has always been inferior to 911. Plus the aesthetic of the 911 is better...my guess is the 4rs will be one to keep for all the reasons mentioned above.
Is winter affecting purchasing decisions resulting in cars remaining stagnant at dealer lots? Will that change as better seasons for driving approaches ?
With all this, it is cyclical. The prices ebb and flow as weather improves prices will stabilize and sales volume should increase.
Of course you will lose money if you pay over msrp. Andreas, the chief of Porsche GT keeps saying these are NOT limited production cars. Most are selling at MSRP to their preferred customers. If you couldn't wait and had to be one of the first owners, you paid over msrp. In Europe, Porsche GT car prices are already plummeting.
In EU they didnt sell over msrp so their baseline was already lower
@@ignitionontheleftyes no ADM here, but our MSRP is like U.S. MSRP + 50-70k USD ADM
Wonderful car, worth whatever you put into it. All cars are faltering
Cars are mostly a depreciating asset and until very recently that wasn't the case - so my guess it will return to what it once was.
Hmmm.. 4RS's dropping? It's all relative. What was the sticker price on these cars? Base price is about 145K plus options. So these cars are probably 175-180K sticker cars you are looking at. So at 230K these cars are still being sold way above retail even after they have miles on them. And you can bet they are getting their ADM's back. So yes, not a 100K over but a very nice return. They will continue drop until production stops which is about now. Then they will stay flat for a year or so. They should start the slow increase again 5-8 years later. I am using the 997.2 RS's as a rough guide. By the time they were 10 years old they were 100k over. Whether this is that car or not remains to be seen.
Tough decision.m on a fantastic car. Great video
Gracias
Thinking about buying a Carrera T or GTS. Any rumors on price drops or removing ADM's?
Both should be available at dealers for no ADM, just ask. I was told today i can order any non GT car right now for zero adm
Got a commission number for my 911 GTS at MSRP. Locks end of month, April delivery. No ADM.
One viewer did a carrera t, lowered it and did an exhaust. - i thought that was a clever way to get mostly there. Im a fan of anything manual at the moment...
My local dealer has that one guy who they sell to for MSRP cause he get the latest GT car and as soon as the next one comes out he trades it back in for his next order. Sure they have a loyal customer, but he takes up every first allocation and no one else can even get one unless you want to buy his used spec. On his GT3 RS that hes going to trade back is us Python Green with Red decals so I hope the next buyer likes Christmas all year.
Ha. My favorite holiday is Halloween🎃 so i guess im out.
do you happen to know how much percentage wise he gets back in on trade in and what is the sales tax situation is in your state regarding whether or not the sales tax takes the trade in value off the purchase price of the new GT car?
@@carlfrederick8433 the state charges full value on alll sells. Dealer. Always sells for market on the used but not sure what they give on trade I know he only pays MSRP.
Hi Matt,
I am going to pick up my gt4 rs next month. Is 40-50k above msrp reasonable nowaday?
Still seems like they can get it assuming you are able to spec the car and not buy someone else's. Id push back and show them the "adjusted market pricing" needs to be adjusted...
40-50k ADM is never reasonable. This is what happens when people buy by speculation or worse just to flip. The fact that porsche allows this practice is rediculous. As soon as people with more money than sense stop paying these ADM's the sooner the dealers will have to sell at MSRP. Prices are continuing to fall.
@@danandrews2650 I hear you but sadly it’s impossible. flippers are uncontrollable in today market.
226,000 dollars for a Cayman ! Albeit very special but to also learn prices are going down but it’s not surprising given they were selling for 100,000 above sticker price and I lost my car to a guy who paid 250,000 euros for technically my car !! He gazumped me or outbid me but I was not paying a quarter of a million for a Cayman plain and simple .
It is a cayman indeed
And dropping every week... Hopefully they get below MSRP
I still think this car's best value years are ahead, not behind.
What were the specs on your car when you bought it?
Black
Leather race tex w/arctic gray
Weissach
Front axle lift
Fire extinguisher
Luggage net for passenger footwell
Smoking package
Light design package
Deletion of SiriusXM antenna
Bose surround
Door trim package in leather/race tex
Window triangle trim in carbon. (Dont do)
Chrono package
Leipzig European delivery (actually on window sticker)
Door pulls in black
Brake calipers in high gloss black
Wheels painted in satin black
Instrument dials in white
Sun visors in race-tex
Preparation for porsche dash-cam
Door sill guards in carbon, illuminated in yellow
$176,870 + $50,000adm
Also from the window sticker "you spend $9000 more in fuel costs over five years compared to the average new vehicle."
Thank you for sharing! I have been watching your channel and decided to pull the trigger on a used GT4RS! I just watched your track set up video. I have been a PCA instructor for 20+ yrs but this will be my first time owning a Cayman platform. Very excited! @@ignitionontheleft
Demuro is nutz ...
In what way? I've met him, seems of sound mind
In 10 years they will worth at least half a million
Agreed.
I hope so, I’m thinking of getting one🤔
@@connect4558 get one....in 3-4 years time it will be double the money at least...especially when the new cayman will be 90% fully electric
@@Alex-dz6xw Sam A reckons it’s a track car and I would likely never track it! It would be a lot of money for me to spend, assuming I’ll be able to? If it’s worth more in years to come it will be a bonus for my kids rather than me, decisions, decisions🫣
@@connect4558 yes. Its more like a future investment...and you can have some fun on the road in the meanwhile..just make sure to keep the miles down haha
At the end of the day it’s still a cayman and like it or not the GT3 still has a prestige over them so they will drop hard especially for the flippers who financed 80% and need to fire sale it to get out
I still think the 4rs is a fantastic long term hold
4:51 statement of the year! 👍
Ha!
Meh. It's still a Cayman. 911 GT3 RS over this ANY day of the week.
Why? Aesthetic only or other reasons?
@@ignitionontheleft definitely aesthetics and just where it falls in the pecking order. Don’t get me wrong. I appreciate the car and its abilities. However, when it first came out, it was awesome when we saw one. About 4 months later I saw 8 or 9 of them at a local cars and coffee. They just don’t do it for me.
@@SF_Nativeso misunderstood about the pecking order. The GT4RS throws such considerations out the window and the GT4RS is so much more entertaining to drive than the 992GT3RS. Especially on public roads, where you’re at for the most part, but even on the track it’s a more lively, acoustic and thrilling drive due to it’s lack of clever trickery which the 992GT3RS has in spades and which makes it kinda boring because it’s so clinical to drive. Also the 3RS is just one in a long line of cars and soon it’s “bettered” by the 992.2GT3RS. Bettered meaning faster. These cars are so fast anyway that faster to many isn’t a valid point no more. We want to be entertained, and no car does that better than the GT4RS
@@Nord_Mann How is the pecking order misunderstood? The numbers alone tell you where it falls. GT2> GT3 > GT4. The Cayman was a middle step between the Boxster and the 911. Slightly better than the Boxster, but not quite a 911. Whether for street or track, if the 992 RS is in capable hands, there's not much comparison.
Personally, I like the older generation 997 RS and even the 996 RS. In my opinion those were the last true enthusiast GT cars.
Then go “any day” and buy one. 😂