@DaveCaresForYou not the eagle heads. 2009 and newer have less issues With seats coming out. I beat on mine pretty hard. Mine are a set of 2010 heads that I ported and put on my 2015 charger. No issues yet.
Look up dodge dart turbo; the guy only did the bottom end; boosted it w a manual… the 5.7 w just a 6.1 crank and pistons and rods; remove the mds… it can go to the moon… but now w the hellcat stuff you paying hemi tax.
Considering the cost, I would keep the stock ones and do some work on the chambers and some porting, not enough of a gain in horsepower with the Edelbrocks to justify the cost.
@@randallsemrau7845 As far as naturally aspirated engines go, that's pretty darn good. The looks of the intake and valve covers is old school, gen II Hemi, and a lot of people want that. I believe there is a market for this set up.
@@tonypoore440 The setup does look hot. But in terms of making a ton of power, I can never understand why people spend so much time and effort with ambient air pressure, when the options are so plentiful. It's akin to eating from your kitchen garbage can, while the dining room table overflows with a Thanksgiving banquet.
@@randallsemrau7845 In a way, yes there are ways to make more power, but I wouldn't say this engine is something from a garbage can compared to a supercharged engine. Some people prefer naturally aspirated set ups. If we are talking peak power, supercharging is the way to go, I get it. Now, will a supercharged engine cost more or less than this combo? Some people will have to deal with that question. It comes down to personal preferences and budget. Either way, there's a lot of power to be had with this engine.
@@tonypoore440 Radically improving the RPM and flow capabilities of an NA motor requires a lot of time, expertise and money. In this day and age there's a good selection of forced induction kits which, along with a few hours of tuning, often provide more streetable results. But hey, it's not for everyone, especially if a certain look sound and performance type are your priority. Cheers!
I did 605 over the summer with a SBE 5.7 and a set of the 04 heads that had some work 2.02/160 valves and .060 cut off the deck(yes the oil slot on the bottom deck side of the head was gone with that much decking) engine , it's gone 9.90@138 in a 2750 Fox body Mustang .
having been disabled for the last 20 years there are only 2 things that really piss me off about not being able to build engines anymore. one massive quantity's of hemi's in the wild and 2 turbos being so common now both were on our dream list's 20 years ago. but now that I'm at the golden age were I could finally do an all out build I have been stuck on my ass for the last 20 years and am so screwed I can't even hold a fishing rod without being in pain which for a Florida native is like a death sentence.. the last time a worked on a car it was a small block old school build still it was able to beat every new mustang in town tell the 500 GT's came out with the blown 5.2 predator engine
I'm running a 392 stoked to 430 and have the edelbrock heads, Comp cam 274, Edelbrock hemi intake, 90 mm TB, MSD coils, Kooks 2 inch primary and their green cats...Its AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!
@@snek9353 Eldelbrock heads flow a bit better than stock and have an extra 200 thousands for port work. Planning to boost this soon and the heads will be ported to gain more power.
@@martyrehfeld9732 just got it all together about 4 weeks ago....have appointment to get tuned on Tuesday....cant wait to see the numbers....I have done some tuning myself but I'm not a tuner. It runs pretty good, watching my afr's but having fun. Pulled 2 and a half car lengths in a mustang pretty quick
I want to see what happens when you add boost! I really think those Edelbrock Heads are Great Pieces but I would love to see a comparison once boost is added! Please consider it! Love this content from The Horsepower Monster!! Keep it coming! MORE PLEASE!!!
We built a stroker Gen III (426 cubes) with the Edelbrock heads, Bullet hyd roller cam, and a Magnasun 2.9L intercooled blower. 1100+ HP with about 14 PSI on C-12 fuel and a Holley HP EFI management. Overall a solid engine, but far from cheap to build.
I like the cheaper option... stock block, stock home ported heads, forged stroker crank, rods & pistons, cheapo ebay turbos... But would love to see what this more expensive build would do!
I was thinking the same thing watching this. Twin charge this bad boy for low end torque and high end hp and I think you'll have something pretty deadly on your hands.🤯
I'm looking to build a 6.2 supercharged on my channel and using those edelbrock heads and here you are making a video of the heads. Awesome!! That's just the kinda info I need. Almost 60hp from just bolting on new heads is pretty good.
Would like to see ported stock heads to the edelbrock heads just to see how much of a gain you are getting; because if you spend that much on bottom end you’d be crazy not to at least port the stock heads and save a chunk of change by not getting the aftermarket heads
Hello sir from The Philippines 🇵🇭. Im learning a lot about engine builds, builder&engine build techniques.and also picking up a lot of American engine building lingo's and jargons. My father(Deceased) is also an engine builder mostly diesel engines. Sadly i've never had a chance to learn any of his (secret) techniques. You know engine building in the Philippines is like Taboo. B'cos parts and labor is Not cheap. A good 4cyclinder diesel engine rebuild will cost around 30k pesos. And doesn't have a proper shop and proper tools. Thank you sir, im glad i stumbled upon your channel and picking up many nice videos about engines. Mabuhay!
I think some folks get lost on the shape of the combustion chamber. The reason Hemi heads flow so well is the valve arrangement. Cross flow heads or Hemi heads have their valves directly accross from each other.
I bet those Edelbrock heads would react really well to nitrous. The port volume and shape might lend well to that application. Everyone's already talking about boost, and that's a given, but since this is R&D maybe that's worth the try? Love these videos man!
Great video. I always love watching builds. As far as numbers go, it's a nice street build that isn't radical and would be reliable. I hear a nice lope which is always fun on a street rod. If it were me, and the engine was blown, or just plain worn out, I would definitely do the bore, and only stroke if the $s work, a new rotating assembly, and bump the compression as able. That cam sounds nice. We all know that a lopey idle on a NA engine means a loss on the low-end, but so what, it sounds great and is fun when you come into the power. I love that he pointed out for us, that compromise on valvespring rates vs cam wear. I learned that the hard way many years ago. It's always a balancing act. With cleaned up valve seats and a lighter valvetrain, it would be a nice improvement over stock rpms. Headers, updated ignition and efi, and call it done! The owner should have a blast for years to come!
A great vid, thanks for the info..I bought 2 Hemis....one the early 5.7 with the smaller port heads and a late 5.7 with the bigger Eagle heads.....both were dirt cheap...but the 6.1 block I wanted was forever to find....finally got one...4.05 stroker crank....4.09 bore....going to use a sheet metal cross ram with carbs....cam is huge...282/288 degrees at .050..a solid roller, all old school....could be REAL interesting. I used the Eagle big port heads..The problem was with the valve springs...I needed a spring with 220 #'s at 1.9 and 700 at full lift....things got stinky, had to make a LOT of the components and tooling to allow for the big 1.65 diameter beehive springs...but it's coming around..
@@TheHorsepowerMonster Yeah, it is a challenge, but I had to make my own moly retainers, out of 4340 (no one makes a moly or titanium retainer to fit those huge Comp springs with a .3125 hemi stem),moly spring seats, rocker bridges, to fit my Harlan Sharp roller rockers, a sheet metal cross ram..and some other parts. It is a BIG learning curve, especially since VERY few guys have gone this means of old school route, although that may come. The biggest challenge was the grinding of the big solid roller...any bigger (lift and a quicker lobe..)than what I have and I would have to have Bullet grind it from round lobe stock...that's over a grand!!
Thank you guys for using Holley sniper intake I’ve been going back-and-forth. I put one on a hemi. It’s nice to see one real world with the terminator X make a good low end torque.
Yep, exactly... Or a turbo... And you could make the stock heads flow as good or better than out of the box eddys with a die grinder, and a couple carbide burrs on a Saturday afternoon...
Would need taller domed pistons, and even then, if you look at them side by side, the only differences is the little squish shells they added, otherwise identical
Looks like the OEM heads are doing exactly what they were designed to do up to 5.5k RPM which most all street cars & trucks run up to before the shift point in the OEM auto transmissions upshift. Cost V. Performance... don't get wrapped around the axle with raw numbers from a dyno unless you're straight up drag racing and if you are, it's tough to beat a supercharger or turbo when it comes to $/HP ratio.
The Eagle heads have a much smaller chamber, 65cc vs 85 stock and 83 Edelbrock, so you would either have higher compression, or need to swap to lower compression pistons
It's academic for me cause I'm never gonna do a hemi anyway, but I dunno, seems lot of money for only improving the last 1000rpm. Seems like stock heads are just too good these days. With how tough and well flowing gen 3 hemi's and ls engines are from stock, boost/n2o probably a better option? Just my thoughts. Also great video as always.
The Hemi design already allows for bigger valve sizes compared to other cam in block designs of the same bore size, and it seems that the stock Gen III design is good enough that the aftermarket heads just mostly shifted the powerband upwards in this video. As per the host, upgraded valve springs and rocker arms might allow the aftermarket heads to rev even higher for more HP, widening the powerband. Forced induction will always be better bang for the buck, but when you already have that turbo/supercharger and want more out of the motor then these new heads come into the equation.
@@sepg5084 All of these comments are true, but the cold hard facts are you can not beat the Gen III Hemi heads from the factory. A simple port blend, and valve swap, will make the stock heads out perform those Eddy's for far less $ being spent. Those of us building these engines for ourselves have learnt this already. This is a great video, but the host is late to the party. Eagle heads are a dime a dozen. He wouldn't been better off saying 6.1 heads are difficult to find.
This should have been compared to the Apache heads that come on a 392.. the gains aren't there like they are against Pre-Eagle heads. Spend your money on porting even an eagle head and you'll bust the edelbrock numbers by far. Fact. Done it.
Was thinking the same, the factory 392 heads are fantastic and in some ways superior due to the D-port exhaust. Same for the VVT and factory active intake. Both allow for a more driveable engine that makes power up top.
Ahhhh....392 a magic number for me. I learned to drive in our family’s 1957 Chrysler New Yorker which had a 392 cu in Gen 1 Hemi. My real question is if you can’t find the Eagle heads in the junkyard, can you get them from Mopar and what’s the comparable cost versus the Holley part?
@@datasailor8132 The Apache heads, most likely won't be found in a junk yard. But, can find them on eBay or similar sites. If you want a new set, lookup Eastcoastmoparts, much cheaper than stealership.
@@datasailor8132 Eagle = 345/5.7 2009 - current Apache = 392/6.4 2011 - current Eagle heads are easy to come by, they're all over. Apache heads not so much as the entire engine is desirable. However Apache heads can really only go on an Apache engine, they won't fit on anything with a bore of less than 4.06". Apache heads wouldn't fit on the engine build in this video.
@@datasailor8132 any 2009 or newer 5.7 has eagle heads. They are available from salvage yards and MOPAR. Also this video is Edelbrock and not Holley. Im.not aware of Holley produced HEMI heads. The 392/Hellcat has Apache Heads, with the hellcat being drilled for the SC and the 392 for the NA Intake. Eagle heads were improved in 2009 for the VVT engines and are available to this day on the 5.7s...
I have snipers race intake works from 2500 to 8k but it's best used with boost. The street intake(in this video) is best for n/a and there only 5.7 vvt in 09 was only offered in the trucks. The cars didn't get them till 2011 09 and 10 was the srt 6.1 only
to prevent cam-scuffing on Gen 3 Hemis, you'd BETTER make SURE the cams get oil dripped on them via modified drain shapes, as the old gen 1 & 2 cams used to get oil dripped on them, and didn't have scuffing "issues".
The Hemis break the oil down faster. They make too much to run on 20 weight. Those problems don't exist but with early and often quality full syn oil changes.
Thank you for sharing Gen III Hemi engine parts, spec and information. I really like the video. I wonder what a set of CNC 6.1 be in the same ball park on the CFM.
Probably the intake limit at the high rpm since its rated to 6400. BTW the stock chambers are larger than the Edelbrock chambers so compression isn't the same
I never bolt on aftermarket heads out of the box. Best do your own valve job if you're adept. It's a flame 'Font', not a 'Front'. Nice to see the Gen III get some support.
Stock compression for a 5.7 gen 3 hemi is 9.6:1 from Dodge service specs, so that 10.9:1 this motor was changed to got a decent bump for a street motor.
WOW!!!! TOTAL POWER UPGRADE!!!! I CAN"T WAIT FOR THE AFTERMARKET TO COMPLETELY EMBRACE THE NEW HEMI!!!! Great video and education. I learned so much. Thanks for sharing!!!!
How much was the junkyard engine? How much are the Edelbrock heads? How much was the boring in line honing job? How much was the engine control module? How much was the MSG coils? How much would it cost to duplicate?
The junkyards I've been to in Southern California never leave the 6.1/6.4 Hemi's, 6.0/6.2 LS, and 6.2 Tritons in the vehicles. They're always sitting on a shelf and want a premium price.
One way to get rid of the Valve Spring Clearance is to go with a semi-Flat round spring. You may have to go with Higher Valve covers since you're already going down that Road... 🤔
@@bobsgunk1871 Actually one of my kids did skip college and I actually put Edelbrock heads on my last hot rod. That wasn't the reason he skipped college though haha
Not to split hairs but I thought this was a street engine build. Unless this engine is going to see some weekend track time, those gains in the higher rpm range seem like a waste of money. Why would you want to give up some power in the lower rpm range on a daily driver?
With that extra money you also get thicker decks, which become more crucial if boost is added. And the edlebrocks can also be ported and gee starting with a 40 cc larger port then a 5.7 head I'm pretty sure even the best ported 5.7 head is going to lag far behind the edlebrock if it is ported as well.
Personally I think a 230/240 cam IS pretty big , then again I own an 03 RAM stock was 196/196 , and the biggest you can Easily run on a stock 03 PCM is about 208/214 , comp cams 260h
Not seeing these as a street driver improvement like the goal of the test was stated to be. Actually a smidge less power where daily driver rpm is done. Great for the track though, well worth it there!
That's the first I've seen a dyno run with the holley sniper intake. "What if" you swapped out for the speedmaster downdraft efi? I'm curious what the numbers would look like then.
Those Edelbrock intakes are fantastic looking. If I was building a motor, I'd certainly upgrade the heads; that's where all the flow is. Nice work, fun vid.
I wonder if cleaning up the as-cast intake runners on the Edelbrock heads with a little polishing would bring the low-end flow numbers up enough to be on par with the stock heads. I’d love to see what just that basic port job would result in.
The polish might harm the flow numbers compared to a relatively smooth bead blast finish according to some. It has to do with friction and laminar flow.
awesome build....can the throttle body be mounted on any angle ..?..im thinking of mounting mine on the top like a carb and modifing a air cleaner to fit...for an old school look...
Need help figuring out a parts list to build a forged internal gen 3 5.7L hemi ( late model with VVT and yes deleting mds ) without boring out the block or putting in a stroker crank. My plan is to keep the same bore and stroke, but put in a forged crank, stage 1 cam, forged pistons and H beam rods. I don't want to make too much NA power because I plan on putting on a hellcat supercharger and mating it to a nag1 in my 2011 300. If I can do this it should only produce around 575 to wheels which I think is safe for the nag1. I see a lot of 6.1L supercharged and those were mated to a nag1.
Shame they didn't use an intake that matched the port shape and angle of the old school 5.7s.. that intake mismatch is huge.. id also like to see those heads vs any other gen3 head.. the old 5.7 is litterally the worst of the bunch lol
I’d save the money and keep the stock head and dimple the chamber around the valves to prevent a dropped seat. I’d like to see manufacturers create and inverse OD tapered valve seat for aluminum heads. This would allow them to stay seated instead just relying on tight tolerance and friction…add inverse taper OD and it’d be golden. Spend some time porting and polishing a stock head and I bet you would beat that Overpriced edelbrock setup.
Hello, I know that in this type of preparation it is the least important, but I am curious, does the fuel consumption increase a lot, compared to how the stock engine was?
I'd like to see a set of Eagle heads in this comparo. I have a 2014, with Eagles, and am contemplating a stroker kit for 397ci. Published numbers on the Eagle heads are 331cfm, but not sure on the valve lift at that airflow. I'm assuming around .600"? Anyhow, seems that a stock set of Eagles, touched up with a sanding roller, a superb valve job, plus Comps recommended springs....and a 397 should be bumping up around the 550 mark, too, with a custom grind in the same ballpark as Prestiges. I've actually had Comp quote me one, and have those numbers somewhere that I need to find. Not to mention, the stock Eagles *may* have better low-end torque numbers, due to the stock runner volume. I'm still looking for port volume info on those heads, though.
One of the Dyno test I did last year was a set of Eagles both stock and Big valve VS 65 CC Eddy's, as delivered ( lightly polished to clean up casting irregulars) ..06 block, 394CI (3.947X4.05) Hughes SER3438 234/236@50 585/594lift 110 CL, compression was just under10.5 to 1 .. used Prefix single plane Intake MSD Hemi 6 and 950CFM holley .. Eddys made roughly 15more HP stock Vs "stock". average of tens pulls was 590 vs 575 hp , TQ was roughly the same till 5k RPMs , then the Eddys pulled away , the larger valves of the Eddys is why , it's also why the 03-08 heads had a a better TQ curve in their Dyno test. Modified Eagles with 2.165 Intake and 1.625 Exhaust in the eagles, proper bowl enlargement on both In and Ex , but rest of the port was not enlarged just a 60 grit finish on intake surfaces and mirror polish on exhaust vs 67cc Eddys , Modified Eagles KILLED hp wise 610 vs 590 . same short block , and .635/645 lift . with Highly Modified Eddy's with 2.20intake valve both with 8 mm stem and 6 mm stem Intake system was Holley High ram with 2 Wilson 4bbl TB and Holly terminator system(no carb on this test) made 689 with 2.20 valve and 8 mm stem and 701 with the 6 mm stem .
Actually just narrow up the lobe separation angle when you run the bigger heads, that should bring back the bottom end loss with just a small loss on top, no ?
I don't think this is really worth it? The OS valves might be super nice for larger displacements/high lift, maybe do well with IRTBs, but even those alone pick up 40hp when setup right. Really just shows how dam good the factory heads are. Good bottom end and a decent cam, 450whp is NP, sure you can break 500 with a 6.1 but eh. Keeping nice reasonable valve sizes and overlap also makes for a nice driveable car on the street, that loves boost. So... As a 6.1 owner I keep trying to find a reason to stay N/A and build it but it just isn't worth it. It'd be a different story if I needed to stay within a class or some such restrictions. Or in a vintage car. But for a mild 6.1? Refresh, cam, boost. Everything in the rear end lets go in a 6.1 about the same time as the motor too if you're launching them, so a 550whp cruiser on low boost sounds perfect to me
Need to leave those 04 to 08 pre-eagle 5.7s in the junk yard. Try doing this test with a 2011 up eagle with eagle heads. Meaning those Edelbrock heads don't help. Also the mds shuts down 4 cylinders not 2.
The reason why the new Hemis haven't caught on is because they had gained a reputation for block failure when they pushed more than stock horsepower. Their parts are expensive. Compared to the Chevy LS and the horsepower they make it's a no-brainer.
so between buying the heads, valvesprings, head gaskets, oil... a person would be looking to spend at least $4000 for 59 HP... or you could buy a pair of JY eagle heads and be all done for about $1000 and probably make very close to the same HP.
Do they have heads for the 6.1 or is it the same stuff? Not much of a mechanic but looking to stroke the 06 charger srt8 and was also told I'd need a custom ground cam.
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Y'all really have something going here I love these videos! Keep it up!
Thanks a lot! And thanks for watching!
MOPAR Means MORE HOURSEpOWER
AGREED!
@@steveshoemaker6347 always has , and they really are tough old engines.
@@TheHorsepowerMonster ...will the Edelbrock Gen3 Hemi heads fit on 2004 5.7 truck block???
Even with stock HEMI head, that engine still outstanding.
My 3rd gen is doing great
I Agree
To bad dodge can’t build the rest of the car better mine was a pile
2009 and up are better.
the 395 HP 410 torque.
@@jakey20022 the truck 5.7's yeah, but not the car 5.7's.
I’m a Chevy guy and fell in love with the modern Hemi. I have a forged 5.7 that I spray the heck out of. I’m having a good time.
@DaveCaresForYou not the eagle heads. 2009 and newer have less issues With seats coming out. I beat on mine pretty hard. Mine are a set of 2010 heads that I ported and put on my 2015 charger. No issues yet.
Look up dodge dart turbo; the guy only did the bottom end; boosted it w a manual… the 5.7 w just a 6.1 crank and pistons and rods; remove the mds… it can go to the moon… but now w the hellcat stuff you paying hemi tax.
@@Fishi413 I did over 1000 wheel and 1100 torque with my 5.7 block
6.4 is even better by quite alot
@@RICHIE_RICH89hahaha no
Considering the cost, I would keep the stock ones and do some work on the chambers and some porting, not enough of a gain in horsepower with the Edelbrocks to justify the cost.
Exactly. But iIf you truly want more power, just force the air in and be done with it.
@@randallsemrau7845 As far as naturally aspirated engines go, that's pretty darn good. The looks of the intake and valve covers is old school, gen II Hemi, and a lot of people want that. I believe there is a market for this set up.
@@tonypoore440 The setup does look hot. But in terms of making a ton of power, I can never understand why people spend so much time and effort with ambient air pressure, when the options are so plentiful.
It's akin to eating from your kitchen garbage can, while the dining room table overflows with a Thanksgiving banquet.
@@randallsemrau7845 In a way, yes there are ways to make more power, but I wouldn't say this engine is something from a garbage can compared to a supercharged engine. Some people prefer naturally aspirated set ups. If we are talking peak power, supercharging is the way to go, I get it. Now, will a supercharged engine cost more or less than this combo? Some people will have to deal with that question. It comes down to personal preferences and budget. Either way, there's a lot of power to be had with this engine.
@@tonypoore440 Radically improving the RPM and flow capabilities of an NA motor requires a lot of time, expertise and money. In this day and age there's a good selection of forced induction kits which, along with a few hours of tuning, often provide more streetable results. But hey, it's not for everyone, especially if a certain look sound and performance type are your priority. Cheers!
You do an excellent job of presenting here. Thank you all for your time and efforts in creating and sharing this video.
Thanks!
About 8 years ago a 5.7 hemi made 500 hp in the engine masters series with stock displacement and untouched factory heads .
That's pretty crazy
I did 605 over the summer with a SBE 5.7 and a set of the 04 heads that had some work 2.02/160 valves and .060 cut off the deck(yes the oil slot on the bottom deck side of the head was gone with that much decking) engine , it's gone 9.90@138 in a 2750 Fox body Mustang .
Was that whp?or to the crank?
Man that Hemi turned out looking beautiful!!! I'm watching this because I'm researching a Hemi swap
having been disabled for the last 20 years there are only 2 things that really piss me off about not being able to build engines anymore. one massive quantity's of hemi's in the wild and 2 turbos being so common now both were on our dream list's 20 years ago. but now that I'm at the golden age were I could finally do an all out build I have been stuck on my ass for the last 20 years and am so screwed I can't even hold a fishing rod without being in pain which for a Florida native is like a death sentence.. the last time a worked on a car it was a small block old school build still it was able to beat every new mustang in town tell the 500 GT's came out with the blown 5.2 predator engine
I'm running a 392 stoked to 430 and have the edelbrock heads, Comp cam 274, Edelbrock hemi intake, 90 mm TB, MSD coils, Kooks 2 inch primary and their green cats...Its AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!
Curious, why the Edelbrock heads when the stock 6.4 heads are so good already?
@@snek9353 Eldelbrock heads flow a bit better than stock and have an extra 200 thousands for port work. Planning to boost this soon and the heads will be ported to gain more power.
U have any time slips?? And what year is your 392? Us 6.4 guys are really trying to figure out what works best N/A.
@@martyrehfeld9732 just got it all together about 4 weeks ago....have appointment to get tuned on Tuesday....cant wait to see the numbers....I have done some tuning myself but I'm not a tuner. It runs pretty good, watching my afr's but having fun. Pulled 2 and a half car lengths in a mustang pretty quick
@@TxHammer757 update ?
Also don't forget big heads on a bigger bore stroker are gonna really shine, pretty sure that's where the E-brocks are gonna come into their own !
#unshroudthevalves
I want to see what happens when you add boost! I really think those Edelbrock Heads are Great Pieces but I would love to see a comparison once boost is added! Please consider it! Love this content from The Horsepower Monster!! Keep it coming! MORE PLEASE!!!
We built a stroker Gen III (426 cubes) with the Edelbrock heads, Bullet hyd roller cam, and a Magnasun 2.9L intercooled blower. 1100+ HP with about 14 PSI on C-12 fuel and a Holley HP EFI management. Overall a solid engine, but far from cheap to build.
I like the cheaper option... stock block, stock home ported heads, forged stroker crank, rods & pistons, cheapo ebay turbos... But would love to see what this more expensive build would do!
I was thinking the same thing watching this. Twin charge this bad boy for low end torque and high end hp and I think you'll have something pretty deadly on your hands.🤯
This was 3 years ago things have changed a lot in 3 years
Perfect motor for the Durango or 1500. That low end is fantastic and it ramps in so softly but there is a lot of it.
I don't know jack about Mopar engines but what about in something say a 2500 or 3500?
@@SOU6900 the 6.4 for a 2500. Don't bother if it's bigger. Your fuel consumption would be too high to want it
I'm looking to build a 6.2 supercharged on my channel and using those edelbrock heads and here you are making a video of the heads. Awesome!! That's just the kinda info I need. Almost 60hp from just bolting on new heads is pretty good.
Would like to see ported stock heads to the edelbrock heads just to see how much of a gain you are getting; because if you spend that much on bottom end you’d be crazy not to at least port the stock heads and save a chunk of change by not getting the aftermarket heads
I'd like to see the same test with factory Apache heads, to compare.
Ported 03-08 heads are junk. Barely outflow STOCK 09+ 5.7 heads.
@@alanm7312 apache heads won't fit a 5.7 block
@@brycebjerke3408 ruclips.net/video/ZqRGUXbp4ls/видео.html Yes they will, been doing it since 2014.....
@@rickgehring7507 you have to notch the cylinder for the valves to not hit the block. Been doing hemis since 06 😉
Hello sir from The Philippines 🇵🇭.
Im learning a lot about engine builds, builder&engine build techniques.and also picking up a lot of American engine building lingo's and jargons. My father(Deceased) is also an engine builder mostly diesel engines. Sadly i've never had a chance to learn any of his (secret) techniques. You know engine building in the Philippines is like Taboo. B'cos parts and labor is Not cheap. A good 4cyclinder diesel engine rebuild will cost around 30k pesos. And doesn't have a proper shop and proper tools. Thank you sir, im glad i stumbled upon your channel and picking up many nice videos about engines.
Mabuhay!
I think some folks get lost on the shape of the combustion chamber. The reason Hemi heads flow so well is the valve arrangement. Cross flow heads or Hemi heads have their valves directly accross from each other.
I bet those Edelbrock heads would react really well to nitrous. The port volume and shape might lend well to that application. Everyone's already talking about boost, and that's a given, but since this is R&D maybe that's worth the try?
Love these videos man!
Thanks a lot!
Great video. I always love watching builds.
As far as numbers go, it's a nice street build that isn't radical and would be reliable. I hear a nice lope which is always fun on a street rod.
If it were me, and the engine was blown, or just plain worn out, I would definitely do the bore, and only stroke if the $s work, a new rotating assembly, and bump the compression as able. That cam sounds nice. We all know that a lopey idle on a NA engine means a loss on the low-end, but so what, it sounds great and is fun when you come into the power. I love that he pointed out for us, that compromise on valvespring rates vs cam wear. I learned that the hard way many years ago. It's always a balancing act.
With cleaned up valve seats and a lighter valvetrain, it would be a nice improvement over stock rpms.
Headers, updated ignition and efi, and call it done! The owner should have a blast for years to come!
Thanks!
A great vid, thanks for the info..I bought 2 Hemis....one the early 5.7 with the smaller port heads and a late 5.7 with the bigger Eagle heads.....both were dirt cheap...but the 6.1 block
I wanted was forever to find....finally got one...4.05 stroker crank....4.09 bore....going to use a sheet metal cross ram with carbs....cam is huge...282/288 degrees at .050..a solid roller, all old school....could be REAL interesting.
I used the Eagle big port heads..The problem was with the valve springs...I needed a spring with 220 #'s at 1.9 and 700 at full lift....things got stinky, had to make a LOT of the components and tooling to allow for the big 1.65 diameter beehive springs...but it's coming around..
That sounds like a fun build!
@@TheHorsepowerMonster Yeah, it is a challenge, but I had to make my own moly retainers, out of 4340 (no one makes a moly or titanium retainer to fit those huge Comp springs with a .3125 hemi stem),moly spring seats, rocker bridges, to fit my Harlan Sharp roller rockers, a sheet metal cross ram..and some other parts. It is a BIG learning curve, especially since VERY few guys have gone this means of old school route, although that may come. The biggest challenge was the grinding of the big solid roller...any bigger (lift and a quicker lobe..)than what I have and I would have to have Bullet grind it from round lobe stock...that's over a grand!!
Great Video! Thanks for the support!
Thank you guys for using Holley sniper intake I’ve been going back-and-forth. I put one on a hemi. It’s nice to see one real world with the terminator X make a good low end torque.
Given the stock heads flow that well I'd spend the money on a super charger and leave the stock heads in place
Yep, exactly... Or a turbo... And you could make the stock heads flow as good or better than out of the box eddys with a die grinder, and a couple carbide burrs on a Saturday afternoon...
Raw horse power n torque , what a tune !!!
I love to see some true hemisphere heads for the gen 3 hemi
Would need taller domed pistons, and even then, if you look at them side by side, the only differences is the little squish shells they added, otherwise identical
You really need to note that in any Hemi, pushrod length is super critical and will change with different heads, gaskets or milling.
Looks like the OEM heads are doing exactly what they were designed to do up to 5.5k RPM which most all street cars & trucks run up to before the shift point in the OEM auto transmissions upshift.
Cost V. Performance... don't get wrapped around the axle with raw numbers from a dyno unless you're straight up drag racing and if you are, it's tough to beat a supercharger or turbo when it comes to $/HP ratio.
It appears that the eagle factory heads are as good as the edelbrock heads. I'd love to see that comparison!
The Eagle heads have a much smaller chamber, 65cc vs 85 stock and 83 Edelbrock, so you would either have higher compression, or need to swap to lower compression pistons
Would have been nice seeing what the gains are on an otherwise stock engine
Class! Again better explained and in-depth Information than power nation!
Love it!!
Thanks a lot!
It's academic for me cause I'm never gonna do a hemi anyway, but I dunno, seems lot of money for only improving the last 1000rpm. Seems like stock heads are just too good these days. With how tough and well flowing gen 3 hemi's and ls engines are from stock, boost/n2o probably a better option? Just my thoughts.
Also great video as always.
The Hemi design already allows for bigger valve sizes compared to other cam in block designs of the same bore size, and it seems that the stock Gen III design is good enough that the aftermarket heads just mostly shifted the powerband upwards in this video. As per the host, upgraded valve springs and rocker arms might allow the aftermarket heads to rev even higher for more HP, widening the powerband.
Forced induction will always be better bang for the buck, but when you already have that turbo/supercharger and want more out of the motor then these new heads come into the equation.
@@sepg5084 yeah for sure
I'd see it as a reliability thing, last thing you want is to brick a motor because of Chrysler's horrible valve seat design.
The intake used is also known to hurt power in thee lower rpm's.
@@sepg5084 All of these comments are true, but the cold hard facts are you can not beat the Gen III Hemi heads from the factory. A simple port blend, and valve swap, will make the stock heads out perform those Eddy's for far less $ being spent. Those of us building these engines for ourselves have learnt this already. This is a great video, but the host is late to the party. Eagle heads are a dime a dozen. He wouldn't been better off saying 6.1 heads are difficult to find.
This should have been compared to the Apache heads that come on a 392.. the gains aren't there like they are against Pre-Eagle heads. Spend your money on porting even an eagle head and you'll bust the edelbrock numbers by far. Fact. Done it.
Was thinking the same, the factory 392 heads are fantastic and in some ways superior due to the D-port exhaust. Same for the VVT and factory active intake. Both allow for a more driveable engine that makes power up top.
Ahhhh....392 a magic number for me. I learned to drive in our family’s 1957 Chrysler New Yorker which had a 392 cu in Gen 1 Hemi. My real question is if you can’t find the Eagle heads in the junkyard, can you get them from Mopar and what’s the comparable cost versus the Holley part?
@@datasailor8132 The Apache heads, most likely won't be found in a junk yard. But, can find them on eBay or similar sites. If you want a new set, lookup Eastcoastmoparts, much cheaper than stealership.
@@datasailor8132
Eagle = 345/5.7 2009 - current
Apache = 392/6.4 2011 - current
Eagle heads are easy to come by, they're all over. Apache heads not so much as the entire engine is desirable. However Apache heads can really only go on an Apache engine, they won't fit on anything with a bore of less than 4.06". Apache heads wouldn't fit on the engine build in this video.
@@datasailor8132 any 2009 or newer 5.7 has eagle heads. They are available from salvage yards and MOPAR. Also this video is Edelbrock and not Holley. Im.not aware of Holley produced HEMI heads.
The 392/Hellcat has Apache Heads, with the hellcat being drilled for the SC and the 392 for the NA Intake.
Eagle heads were improved in 2009 for the VVT engines and are available to this day on the 5.7s...
I have snipers race intake works from 2500 to 8k but it's best used with boost. The street intake(in this video) is best for n/a and there only 5.7 vvt in 09 was only offered in the trucks. The cars didn't get them till 2011 09 and 10 was the srt 6.1 only
to prevent cam-scuffing on Gen 3 Hemis, you'd BETTER make SURE the cams get oil dripped on them via modified drain shapes, as the old gen 1 & 2 cams used to get oil dripped on them, and didn't have scuffing "issues".
The Hemis break the oil down faster. They make too much to run on 20 weight. Those problems don't exist but with early and often quality full syn oil changes.
I would love to get one of those to put in my 91 Jeep Grand Wagoneer!!!
Another great video, the variety is astounding.
Glad you like them!
Thank you for sharing Gen III Hemi engine parts, spec and information. I really like the video.
I wonder what a set of CNC 6.1 be in the same ball park on the CFM.
Probably the intake limit at the high rpm since its rated to 6400. BTW the stock chambers are larger than the Edelbrock chambers so compression isn't the same
Need to do a comparison on the 6.4 with apache heads and then the Edelbrock heads and see if the Edelbrock heads make more power
I never bolt on aftermarket heads out of the box. Best do your own valve job if you're adept. It's a flame 'Font', not a 'Front'. Nice to see the Gen III get some support.
MDS shuts down 4 cylinders. Not 2. Regardless, better to disable that junk.
That's a ton of power to add without changing the compression!
I think the compression has been changed slightly
10.9:1 he said I believe. This was a stroker
@LF X No. The combination chamber volume is the same.
@@rollinwitbigc the stock head test also used the same stroker crank, so the compression ratio is the same for both tests.
Stock compression for a 5.7 gen 3 hemi is 9.6:1 from Dodge service specs, so that 10.9:1 this motor was changed to got a decent bump for a street motor.
WOW!!!! TOTAL POWER UPGRADE!!!! I CAN"T WAIT FOR THE AFTERMARKET TO COMPLETELY EMBRACE THE NEW HEMI!!!! Great video and education. I learned so much. Thanks for sharing!!!!
Great video! I'm trying to figure out what direction to go with a 4th gen 5.7 and grabbing great ideas from everywhere.
How much was the junkyard engine? How much are the Edelbrock heads? How much was the boring in line honing job? How much was the engine control module? How much was the MSG coils? How much would it cost to duplicate?
Would have liked to see you advance the cam a couple of degrees see if picked bottom end slight drop back up then would have equal a win win deal
The junkyards I've been to in Southern California never leave the 6.1/6.4 Hemi's, 6.0/6.2 LS, and 6.2 Tritons in the vehicles. They're always sitting on a shelf and want a premium price.
One way to get rid of the Valve Spring Clearance is to go with a semi-Flat round spring. You may have to go with Higher Valve covers since you're already going down that Road... 🤔
For a street engine, I'd keep the stock heads. Spend a fraction of that $ on a fogger system for track days.
Yeah, no kidding. I'd skip those high dollar rods too. Then this build wouldn't require one of my kids to skip collage
@@edjackson4389 Let your kids skip college. They'll just learn it's not fair everyone can't afford Edelbrock heads.
@@bobsgunk1871 Actually one of my kids did skip college and I actually put Edelbrock heads on my last hot rod. That wasn't the reason he skipped college though haha
@@bobsgunk1871 Holy crap I was thinking exactly that.
@@edjackson4389 clearly, no one should skip 'collage'! :)
Not to split hairs but I thought this was a street engine build. Unless this engine is going to see some weekend track time, those gains in the higher rpm range seem like a waste of money. Why would you want to give up some power in the lower rpm range on a daily driver?
Excellent. Already looking forward to the next test.
Cheers
This channel has some great stuff going on! Just subscribed!
Thanks for the kind words! And thanks for the subscription!
Can't wait to see more on the hemi builds
Its a true hemi its just smarter with bigger quench zone for w better designed lighter piston with better smaller domes
Port the factory heads they should have been able to keep the bottom end not worth the money
Ding ding ding....correctomundo at $1250 a head I'd rather port the factory heads and spend that money on a turbo 🐌
With that extra money you also get thicker decks, which become more crucial if boost is added. And the edlebrocks can also be ported and gee starting with a 40 cc larger port then a 5.7 head I'm pretty sure even the best ported 5.7 head is going to lag far behind the edlebrock if it is ported as well.
@@ramirodiaz4545 that’s why I went with thitek. Way better option over the RPM head
Personally I think a 230/240 cam IS pretty big , then again I own an 03 RAM stock was 196/196 , and the biggest you can Easily run on a stock 03 PCM is about 208/214 , comp cams 260h
Just found your channel. Have a newer durango rt. Will be following your page closely. Subbed
Great video. I love seeing these side by side comparisons with aftermarket parts. I'm subscribing to this channel. Priceless information
Hey thanks a lot! And thanks for the sub!
Excellent work . Thanks for that awesome review.
I was hoping that the test would include a set of Eagle heads from the 2009 up 5.7 VVT engine
That Commander with the heads removed had a 4.7, not 5.7. You can clearly see the area where the cam chains for the OHC run through the deck surface.
Yeah, you are right. I got ahead of myself at the junkyard. Thanks for watching.
airflow line on power chart got you a subscription.
Not seeing these as a street driver improvement like the goal of the test was stated to be. Actually a smidge less power where daily driver rpm is done. Great for the track though, well worth it there!
That's the first I've seen a dyno run with the holley sniper intake. "What if" you swapped out for the speedmaster downdraft efi? I'm curious what the numbers would look like then.
Add 15-30hp depending on cam and Tuning.
Those Edelbrock intakes are fantastic looking. If I was building a motor, I'd certainly upgrade the heads; that's where all the flow is. Nice work, fun vid.
Thanks a lot, and thanks for watching!
Sounds meaty in a classic way
Superb as always guys Great info
Thanks!
I wonder if cleaning up the as-cast intake runners on the Edelbrock heads with a little polishing would bring the low-end flow numbers up enough to be on par with the stock heads. I’d love to see what just that basic port job would result in.
The polish might harm the flow numbers compared to a relatively smooth bead blast finish according to some. It has to do with friction and laminar flow.
awesome build....can the throttle body be mounted on any angle ..?..im thinking of mounting mine on the top like a carb and modifing a air cleaner to fit...for an old school look...
Need help figuring out a parts list to build a forged internal gen 3 5.7L hemi ( late model with VVT and yes deleting mds ) without boring out the block or putting in a stroker crank. My plan is to keep the same bore and stroke, but put in a forged crank, stage 1 cam, forged pistons and H beam rods. I don't want to make too much NA power because I plan on putting on a hellcat supercharger and mating it to a nag1 in my 2011 300. If I can do this it should only produce around 575 to wheels which I think is safe for the nag1. I see a lot of 6.1L supercharged and those were mated to a nag1.
There are tons of "Hemi" engine dyno runs. But what about manual transmission options that won't break?
Junkerup #chrise has a shell booth....?!
Shame they didn't use an intake that matched the port shape and angle of the old school 5.7s.. that intake mismatch is huge.. id also like to see those heads vs any other gen3 head.. the old 5.7 is litterally the worst of the bunch lol
oh shit lmao the goat mackbuilt 👀👀👀
I’d save the money and keep the stock head and dimple the chamber around the valves to prevent a dropped seat. I’d like to see manufacturers create and inverse OD tapered valve seat for aluminum heads. This would allow them to stay seated instead just relying on tight tolerance and friction…add inverse taper OD and it’d be golden. Spend some time porting and polishing a stock head and I bet you would beat that Overpriced edelbrock setup.
Hello, I know that in this type of preparation it is the least important, but I am curious, does the fuel consumption increase a lot, compared to how the stock engine was?
That's an aweful Expensive 60 HP !!!!
So what you’re telling me is I get a LS and a Chinese turbo I can make 700 hp.
And a lil Hemi with no turbo can make 700hp lol.
A budget build 347 can make over 500 hp n/a.. this much $ for under 500 is a joke
🤔...or a LS with Hemi heads...best of Both Worlds
I'd like to see a set of Eagle heads in this comparo. I have a 2014, with Eagles, and am contemplating a stroker kit for 397ci. Published numbers on the Eagle heads are 331cfm, but not sure on the valve lift at that airflow. I'm assuming around .600"? Anyhow, seems that a stock set of Eagles, touched up with a sanding roller, a superb valve job, plus Comps recommended springs....and a 397 should be bumping up around the 550 mark, too, with a custom grind in the same ballpark as Prestiges. I've actually had Comp quote me one, and have those numbers somewhere that I need to find. Not to mention, the stock Eagles *may* have better low-end torque numbers, due to the stock runner volume. I'm still looking for port volume info on those heads, though.
One of the Dyno test I did last year was a set of Eagles both stock and Big valve VS 65 CC Eddy's, as delivered ( lightly polished to clean up casting irregulars) ..06 block, 394CI (3.947X4.05) Hughes SER3438 234/236@50 585/594lift 110 CL, compression was just under10.5 to 1 .. used Prefix single plane Intake MSD Hemi 6 and 950CFM holley .. Eddys made roughly 15more HP stock Vs "stock". average of tens pulls was 590 vs 575 hp , TQ was roughly the same till 5k RPMs , then the Eddys pulled away , the larger valves of the Eddys is why , it's also why the 03-08 heads had a a better TQ curve in their Dyno test. Modified Eagles with 2.165 Intake and 1.625 Exhaust in the eagles, proper bowl enlargement on both In and Ex , but rest of the port was not enlarged just a 60 grit finish on intake surfaces and mirror polish on exhaust vs 67cc Eddys , Modified Eagles KILLED hp wise 610 vs 590 . same short block , and .635/645 lift . with Highly Modified Eddy's with 2.20intake valve both with 8 mm stem and 6 mm stem Intake system was Holley High ram with 2 Wilson 4bbl TB and Holly terminator system(no carb on this test) made 689 with 2.20 valve and 8 mm stem and 701 with the 6 mm stem .
so a turbo fitted on that motor ! would be a smasher.
Stock eagle vs ported eagle vs edlebrock would be really interesting
I got the elderbrcok heads i wish I would have got them porter and polished as long as the engine been sitting. I'm upset with myself.
Pity it ran out of spring.
What springs were those?
Look like a PAC 1.3". 450 lb/in rate? Or softer?
Can probably shim them.
That Jeep Commander shown with a head taken off looks like that was a 4.7 ohc v8 motor not a Hemi version
I think you're right, I see the sohc timing chains behind the one in front
Actually just narrow up the lobe separation angle when you run the bigger heads, that should bring back the bottom end loss with just a small loss on top, no ?
I'd like to see the cam specs on the cam the ran myself. They said mild street cam but with 600" lift. It must no have much over lap or duration.
Can you please do a stock bottle 5.7 hemi with a cam and a bored Edelbrock gen3 cylinder heads on E85 with the sniper intake manifold..
You should try a Wipple supercharger on those heads to see what it would do.
That would be fun!
I don't think this is really worth it? The OS valves might be super nice for larger displacements/high lift, maybe do well with IRTBs, but even those alone pick up 40hp when setup right. Really just shows how dam good the factory heads are. Good bottom end and a decent cam, 450whp is NP, sure you can break 500 with a 6.1 but eh. Keeping nice reasonable valve sizes and overlap also makes for a nice driveable car on the street, that loves boost. So... As a 6.1 owner I keep trying to find a reason to stay N/A and build it but it just isn't worth it. It'd be a different story if I needed to stay within a class or some such restrictions. Or in a vintage car. But for a mild 6.1? Refresh, cam, boost. Everything in the rear end lets go in a 6.1 about the same time as the motor too if you're launching them, so a 550whp cruiser on low boost sounds perfect to me
Great comparison 👍🏻
Great video
Hey, thanks a lot! And thanks for watching!
Dang, that is Almost LS power!
aye nice, id like to see more content for hemis from youtubers, all i see is mustang n chevy
Need to leave those 04 to 08 pre-eagle 5.7s in the junk yard. Try doing this test with a 2011 up eagle with eagle heads. Meaning those Edelbrock heads don't help. Also the mds shuts down 4 cylinders not 2.
Great builds every show. More HP, Is always better..
dude..g3 hemis are being put in everything from old mopar metal to mustangs and camaros and buicks dominating some small tire racing.
What? That's simply not true man.
The reason why the new Hemis haven't caught on is because they had gained a reputation for block failure when they pushed more than stock horsepower. Their parts are expensive. Compared to the Chevy LS and the horsepower they make it's a no-brainer.
Looking forward for a bigger cam, bigger throttle body and higher CR test
That exhaust runner seems small an 75cc..lol.
"202cc intake port volume flows 345 CFM @ .600" lift" So what are the mid lift numbers ;)
Did you have to get new push rods with the change in camshaft and heads?
so between buying the heads, valvesprings, head gaskets, oil... a person would be looking to spend at least $4000 for 59 HP... or you could buy a pair of JY eagle heads and be all done for about $1000 and probably make very close to the same HP.
Do they have heads for the 6.1 or is it the same stuff? Not much of a mechanic but looking to stroke the 06 charger srt8 and was also told I'd need a custom ground cam.