5.7 HEMI Lifter Failure Could this FIX the lifter issue FOREVER?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 3 янв 2021
- Hey guys, revisiting the 5.7 HEMI lifter failure video I made a couple months ago. I wanted to address many off the comments that I got from the last video, and I really wanted to show you an idea I had after investigating the issue further. I hope you watch the whole video and more importantly, I hope you learn something you didn't know beforehand! This lifter failure issue is a big talking point among Mopar fans and the more information we all have about it the better off we are. People are talking about this being a Fatal Flaw, and I just don't believe that to be the case due to the relatively small number of cases overall.
Thanks so much for watching and I appreciate all your comments! Keep them coming!
Get your T-shirts to support Reignited here:
www.reignitedtx.com/
My Instagram: @reignited.tx
Email: Sales@reignitedtx.com
Here is a list of the most commonly used tools on my channel, I'm only listing actual tools that I have been using for years and that I have a proven track record with. I've been a certified dealer tech for over a decade, and I use these tools day in and day out. The camera and microphone you can see and hear their quality in every video. Obviously if you purchase a tool using one of these affiliate links I'll get a small commission on it and every little bit helps me to continue generating more content! Thank you guys so much for watching and interacting!
Amazon Affiliate links:
My absolutely amazing gloves I've been wearing for 7 years now: amzn.to/3oOMMqy
Canon M50 camera bundle: amzn.to/2HclRUD
Saramonic Blink 500 mic bundle: amzn.to/3m00fcC
Milwaukee 1/2" Fuel impact kit with case, battery and charger: amzn.to/2H973FT
Milwaukee 1/4" impact with battery and charger: amzn.to/3dzvGb3
Ingersoll Rand 3/8" impact :amzn.to/2HjJx92
My favorite wrenches! Gear wrench double box end set 8-19mm: amzn.to/2FDKxEN
Gear wrench stubby wrenches 10-19mm: amzn.to/3k9zm5K
Gear wrench reversible ratcheting wrench set Metric 8-25mm: amzn.to/3462zsA
Milwaukee 3/8 ratchet, tool only: amzn.to/348j1J6
Milwaukee 1/4 ratchet, tool only: amzn.to/31dewej
Gearwrench 1/4 swivel sockets 5-15mm: amzn.to/2T3MmOn
Autel professional scan tool: amzn.to/35abxVa
Gear wrench 21-25mm wrenches: amzn.to/2FHvBWe
U.S. general tool cart 5 drawer: amzn.to/3j4emvH
Double flex head ATD offset wrenches 8-19mm: amzn.to/348rewB
Vacuum coolant bleed machine- amzn.to/2TvUO98 
Авто/Мото
Please watch my NEWEST video to get the very latest info on this issue!
ruclips.net/video/1gpEwkTVCmE/видео.htmlsi=Zh-s2MnZE5fdGmmM
Love your videos man!! I have a 2014 grand cherokee with 5.7, what's your opinion on the idea that running a thicker oil (instead of the 5w-20) will help prevent the lifter failure tick?
You've got quite a few excellent observations, and as a powertrain engineer that daily drives a high mileage Hemi ('08 300 6.1L with 110k), I've been looking into prolonging its life. As some people have stated, vehicles with VVT and lots of idle hours (police Chargers, fleet Rams, etc) are the most commonly afflicted with lifter problems, but no Hemi is immune. Looking at the factory PCM tunes for the common Hemis, they tend to target a 500-550 RPM hot idle speed with 5W-20 oil. This is done to ensure the lowest emissions in these bread-and-butter engines. Meanwhile in non-MDS Hemis, they target a 700-725 RPM idle and mandate a 0W-40 Synthetic oil, and SRT engineers put out a TSB saying 15W-50 Synthetic was okay in warmer climates (TSB 09-011-06). As you can imagine, low emissions are not as much of a priority for these low production SRT and manual trans vehicles, so the engineers can recommend what the engine actually needs.
So if you wanted to improve longevity, I'd start with the easiest thing: tuning in a higher idle speed for more oil pressure, and using thicker synthetic oil. And for more in-depth hardware changes, ditching the solenoids like you said and possibly switching to the high-volume SRT or even Melling oil pumps.
I'm not sure if it's wise to use non-MDS lifters on an MDS cam. Typically, a deactivating lifter collapses faster/further than a non-deactivating lifter. To compensate for this, a deac cam lobe will have an additional 4-7° duration at 0.050" tappet lift, sometimes 60° or more additional duration at 0.006" tappet lift, and an additional 0.25 mm of valve lift. I'd imagine using the same style lifters on all cylinders with an MDS cam would put the engine out of balance with half the cylinders making more power than the other half. But it may not be a big deal.
Sorry to put an essay in your youtube video lol
Wow, fantastic info on this one, hope you don't mind I'm going to pin this comment 👍
@@ReignitedAuto Absolutely, go right ahead. The idle speeds I posted are sourced from factory stock PCM calibrations read with HP Tuners, and the MDS camshaft numbers are based on GM Gen III - V small blocks with DoD. I haven't seen any cam doctor results from Hemi cams, but I'd be surprised if they're super different.
Fun fact about GM's cylinder deac: every version of it turns off cylinders 1, 4, 6, & 7 except the new Corvette's LT2. The LT2 deactivates cylinders 2, 3, 5, & 8. Makes you wonder if there's some NVH from DoD that changes when the engine moves from in front of the cabin to behind.
@@mikezobl9602 I love weird stuff like that, appreciate the info 👍
I have the 6.4 in my 16 power wagon. At idle 550rpm my oil pressure is over 40psi hot. And it doesn’tt vary much. It goes up to 55psi at high rpm. I use the Penzoil 0-40 synthetic. So pressure isn’t an issue and at $9 a quart it better protect
What happens if instead of ditching the solenoids, you deactivate the solenoids by limiting the gear shift to the 7th gear instead of lettung it go all the way to the 8th? Any negative effect on the engine itself or the transmission?
THANK YOU! You are the FIRST person I've come across who ACTUALLY explains HOW mds FUNCTIONS. Most explanations just say, "Oh, 4 cylinders are deactivated by the computer using solenoids." That doesn't tell me squat! I want(ed) to know HOW the cylinders are shut off (mechanically) and you showed me that. Kudos to you sir, thank you so much!
I appreciate you watching! 👍
My guy here just spitting out business decision facts that nobody wants to hear ha. Most people that complain about the lifter issue (the 5% of you) all think they are so super special and because they are complaining about, Chrysler should then spend tens of millions of dollars to fix it for that 5% lmao
@@nexpro6118 honestly feel like if people didnt baby their trucks/cars keeping it under 3000 rpm, they wouldn't have problems LMAOO
@@DylanPorto45 lol.
Can I get rid of the MDS system on my 08 charger 5.7? I have a po300 code . everything is working new plugs coil injectors O2 sensors.i don't think it's the cam .I'm thinking computer or fuel pump ?
I have my 05 ram hemi with almost 400,000 miles for 16 years and it's still running strong! Only things replaced have been water pump and fuel pump. Love my hemi!
Those first gen 3 Hemis were pretty good!
214,000 on my '06 in my WK. Great engine, just thirsty!
What oil you using?
what oil you you using*
My 2012 lifters destroyed the shaft. 8,100 dollars for the new engine
Great video man! I really enjoyed learning how all this works. You did a excellent job explaining as well. Good on you!
I appreciate you watching!
Excellent explanation, without yelling or bragging how much more you know than the other guy. Love this kind of content. Subbed.
Thanks man I appreciate that, hope I can continue to deliver for you! 👍
@@ReignitedAuto hi I was wondering I posted up a video on my channel I don’t know if it’s a bad lifter or exhaust manifold bolt that broke can you check out the video and let me know thank you
@@ReignitedAuto
So with block off plate instead, which bores will be pressured? I'm guessing only once with mds? Is there oil passeges for non mds liftes too?
@@nikoz4841 the oil passages go to each pair of cylinders, so one with MDS and one without. 👍
@@ReignitedAuto
I'm assuming solinoids are not on / off type, it's more like slow flow for lubrication wnen mds not active and high flow when mds activated. If you look at Honda's vtec system, it passes some oil for lubrication when vtec isn't active and opens fill oil flow to activate vtec pins. Thanks for your response
Thank you for this, as many others have said, you did a better job going through this subject than all the other videos I have watched. A lot of the others almost seem like they are trying to freak us out, like the evening news with scare tactics. I am a long time ACVW guy but recently bought a high mileage 06 Charger R/T. All the Hemi chatter on this subject really freaked me out to a point that I was considering doing a major teardown just to eliminate the MDF lifters and solenoids and doing a tuner delete on the system. I really can't afford to replace or rebuild an engine, so I thought this was a good option. But you have eased my mind quite a bit, especially with your number that you threw out that less than 5% of them have an issue, most of them being fleet vehicles or people that sit in NYC traffic. I do not sit in traffic, I drive 55 mph for 40 minutes to and from work every day and I run good oil and change it on time. Thanks again.
Especially since the pre 2009 model years don't really seem to suffer this issue you're in good shape! I actually really like the '06 models.. Thanks for watching!
I have never saw such a wonderful explanation. Thank you so much for your wonderful one by one parts of lifter and failure of it. I love it . Thank you so much.
Thank you for doing a video on this. I always enjoy hearing different input/opinions.
Thanks man, appreciate you watching! 👍
Dude I’m a beginner in the mechanic world ive been doing it about 2 yrs and I love watching your videos man so honest and informative instead of just hating or loving certain things. Really can learn some stuff from ppl like you man it’s so cool.
Really appreciate the kind comments Tyler thank you 👊
Awesome video! I always wondered how they actually deactivate a moving piston! Looking at what all you explained, you can definitely see how viscosity would play a roll in such a complex valvetrain.
When I mean the way you take your time to explain things detailed are amazing!!! I love my 2018 RT Hemi… my uncle is a old war vet and he talks about when the Hemi came out and he knows the 5.7 & 6.4 like the back of his hand… he spoke about the lifters but to be honest it’s the driver as well…if you got a heavy foot make sure u got a heavy wallet to pay for repairs…much appreciated for all your videos I feel like a certified mechanic and I do body work! It’s all about the way a person teaching another person to help them gain knowledge…very detailed and very easy to follow along…never thought the Hemi was this easy to work on!!!
Appreciate you watching Carlos 👍
the heavy foot brings up revs and lubricates properly, low revs is the problem. 5.7 hemi engines stand up very well to being driven hard, in my 170,000km driving 2 of them the only costly things so far are the octane and rubber that it burns and I have a very heavy foot in my rt challenger($1500 full set of rubber burned since spring I need new tires after 8,000km), also has a manual transmission and no MDS so the stick is the way to go yet again
This was really good. Even if this wasn’t the case, this is still a really good observation.
Great video.
Thanks! Yea, could be right or wrong, but I thought it was at least interesting. Thanks for watching! 👍
@@ReignitedAuto Heh you were wrong at the end :) just put the non mds plugs in like recommended by tuners.
Hi. I thank you for your time in researching this potential issue! We have a 2006 300c SRT-8. The 6.1 has almost 130.000 miles on it!. At 67,000 miles, we had a oil pump failure! It always have mobile 1. 0-40w in it. We Put a melling pump 10432 select. With stock pressure rated spring in it. Up to the pump starting to fail. This 6.1 was a little noisy on cold start from day one, for my taste. Being a Dodge Cummins fantastic. That started in 1990.
I changed from the mobile1 0-w40, To Rotella T-6 0-40w.WOW!
No!! Lifter tick! And no main bearing knock or gargel is what we call it here in TEXAS, don't let your local part store tell you that Rotella T-6 is not made in 0-40w! Put a vacuum oil canister on your gen3 or gen4 HEMI too. I was shocked how much oil was in it after one thousand miles! There was 5-6 oz's in it. Reminder! If you're Hemi has piston oil squirters! Check your vacuum oil canister about every 500. Miles or so. I know people are going to say, That's a Diesel oil!! All the chemicals or additives that are needed for flat tappet Cam in a Cummins to live. And only need adjusted every 100,000-150,000 miles!! By the way. My daily drivers is a 2004.5 DODGE 3/4 4x4. A 5.9 Cummins triple compound Bullseye 366/71mm turbocharged, twin Cp3 12mm pumps.For a very short list. Runs 10.20's @ 132.59. And the Rotella T-6 0-40w. Is all this truck has ever seen! O Yeah? Just over 210,200 MILES ON IT!! Still no blow by !! Knock on wood !!
ALSO THANK YOU FOR NOT USING FOUL LANGUAGE!! Real men are gentlemen and puts the LORD first in our life's! Then our Family! And 3 is supposed to be our jobs! ? Or is it our love of our hotrod? GEAR HEAD FOR LIFE. AND A HEMI, no matter what generation it is! #1
Thanks for the feedback Randy!
@@ReignitedAuto diesel oil though? Whats your take?
Interesting
You are a Wise man putting the Lord first in all things. God bless you.
You're info and how you're helping all of us is doing a tremendous service sharing your wisdom and hard earned experience. Thank You!!
Excellent video and explanations for this situation. Many thx! Hope to see more of your videos!
Thank You for all great HEMI Videos! Keep up the nice work.
i recently got a ram 1500 5.7 and now I'm watching all of your videos. it has 52k on it, but I plan to keep that truck for a very LONG time. I really appreciate all of the knowledge you're willing to share with us. Thank you!
Thank you for watching I appreciate it! Check out my latest video on this issue, it's the link in the pinned comment at the top.
Thanks for the fast response yes I agree with you
I thoroughly enjoyed this video. I also love the comments from your viewers. Great stuff.
Thank you for watching I appreciate it! 👍
Dude your amazing all the way around, about time someone done this video, thanks for posting, helped me out so much!!
Appreciate you watching!
Got to be the best video explaining this issue I've found yet.
Thanks for watching!
Good video, as I've said on other similar videos the GMs and other brands with similar lifters have the same problem. I've replace these on more 5.3s than I can count. A major take away I liked is the need to install the replacement caps after turning off MDS. That extra oiling seems useful for sure.
Thanks for watching! 👍
Thanks for taking the time to make and share this well done video. 👍
Appreciate you watching it!
I love your show, and have learned a lot about the Hemi "tick" that all the others don't address. I especially liked your new video about the "MELLING" oil pump upgrade. Tahnkx Jon
Uncle tony made me aware of the cam/lifter issues and when you gave subtle nod to him i gave a smirk. Respect to you sir
Thanks for watching! 👍
I hear Uncle Tony has been invited to join the engineering team at Fiat/Chrysler....psst, I heard it from Santa
Uncle Tony has been at this game a lot long than most people posting here have been alive. I trust what he has to say on this issue.
I have a 2003 5.7 in TX that I bought used around 98k. They changed the lifter kits and springs as they where broken and gas Mileage sucked. But the thing is a beast now. I wasn’t mechanically inclined then, but this is the most informative video I have found. Bravo señor, look forward for more videos.
Appreciate you watching!
Your videos are good dude. Super fair assessments. To the point in general. Rock n roll doggy dog. Keep er up. You’re in your flow and helping people out. Bomb bomb good stuff.
This video absolutely destroyed the two other videos I watched of those two dudes going back and forth lol. Really informative! Thanks man!
I appreciate you watching!
I thank you for your hard work and information!
Thank you for watching!
Very thoughtful analysis and tear down. Thank you.
Thank you for watching I appreciate it!
Man oh man….what a GREAT detailed explanation of this issue! Thanks for posting this. I was riveted the whole 26 mins. I just bought a 1200 mile 2010 Chally auto and have been told if I drive it in Autostick the MDS won’t activate…therefore NOT jolting the timing chain and not having to worry about breaking the plastic factory tensioner. But now u have me re-thinking this because with the MDS off I’m not ever getting the better lubrication to the lifters and bores. Hmmmmm…. There is a recall available on my car for the timing chain tensioner upgrade (to aluminum) but I’m hesitant to open up the front of the motor for this and create leaks, as this car is basically brand new and SUPER CLEAN under there! Any thoughts on this would be VERY APPRECIATED from an old MOPAR tech!!!! 👍🏻😎💪🏻 Thanks a million ahead of time!
Your explanations are clear and well in depth, much appreciated. You’re the Chrisfix Hemi edition for some of us!
I think you've done it . You've removed the to low seat pressure simulation by weaker than valve spring springs , kept constant oil pressure to keep contact I roller on cam and mist importantly put as much lube s possible on that roller and associated needle bearings. You got a big thumbs up and an old mechanics subscription.Thanks for not letting go of this issue.
Appreciate you watching!
That was a great video! Explaining a possible reason for the failure of the lifters and cam. Makes a lot of sense. Keep up the great work. I personally find it very interesting as well.
Thanks man I appreciate you watching! 👍
Good out of the box thinking. Been following this issue since Uncle Tony's Garage initially diagnosed under-lubricated roller needle bearings at low rpm due to new Gen 3 hemi architecture. Thanks.
Thank you for watching! 👍
Wow, you sure know what you are talking about. I'm grateful to this video after hours of confusion from forums and groups.
Appreciate the kind words, and thank you for watching!
Was planning to buy a Ram now that you convinced me to get a tundra and forget all the ram and the problems it’s going through:)
You literally addressed the comments from the former video!! That's awesome, I feel like you directly made this video in reply to my long winded comment as I'm sure others do as well , you have a great personality to pull that off my friend , thanks for the video il be looking forward to more from this channel.
Thanks man I appreciate that! Honestly the feedback from viewers has been really enjoyable, lots more actual discussion than I expected. Thank you again for watching! 👍
@@ReignitedAuto I have to say I'm impressed with your analysis here, in my former comment I stated the issues I have dealt with were from construction trucks that idle ALOT and I as well mental pictured the high cam and wide lifters with the drains located as they are as being a big ticket problem but your idea really takes it that much further with the MDS explanation....great detective work to all😉 I see this channel bring forth a great deal of good information in the future with folks consolidating experience and ideas.
Good analysis. Decades ago, I sort-of MDS'ed one cylinder of my 1969 slant-six to disable a worn cylinder until I could swap in a long-block. First, I just removed the solid lifters and pushrods, but a co-worker said that would cause loss of oil pressure (untrue). Fearing that, I put the lifters back, but added weak springs w/ copper tube "pushrods" so they ran against the camshaft lobes but didn't open the valves. Turns out the slant's lifter bores have no oil ports, rather the lifters are just oiled by splash and drip.
Great discussion with the lifter issues. It's crazy that I have an issue that I suspect is a lifter failure with my 17 ram 1500 5.7 with 120,000 miles yet have had no problems with my 05 magnum rt with 260,000 miles on it
Great video. I am ADHD, and it's hard to watch a long vid before I lose interest.. loved all the info, great job
Thank you for watching! 👍
I have the same problem. Even on my FAVORITE channels, I won't watch anything over 30-35 minutes.
Awesome in depth review of this issue 💪
Hope I didn't put you to sleep! 😂
Love your detailed explanations thank you 🙏🏽
Omgggggggg!!! This is amazing 🤩 need these u are a lifesaver I’ve always worked on my own cars well as much as I felt comfortable doing! After watching your videos I’ve taken parts off that I swore only the shop could do or a licensed professional! Man no bro I’m a beast and u are as well!!! It’s about confidence and let your minds and your hands do the rest! Much appreciated for all of your videos! I’m making a channel soon with my 18 RT Hemi!!! Let’s Gooooo!!! Dodge Gang!!!
Love this explanation. First time Ram owner but lifelong car enthusiast. So I obviously research the crap out of things like this. What I couldn't wrap my head around is the only 5% failure. Mostly due to me following a ton of fb pages for the 4th gen Ram, and it seemed like every other member has had a lifter failure. So it seems like 5% is pretty low compared to what I see just on fb enthusiasts pages, where we generally overmaintain our vehicles.
But if your theory is correct, this would make sense . I would say that 80-90% of members turn off the mds manually with the gear selector, myself included because we hate the sound and are under the assumption that it doesn't harm, or helps with the lifter issue. So this whole time, while trying to prevent the issue, we have been doing the opposite and starving the lifter. This would actually make a lot of sense
So actually it’s worse to use the gear selector?
Hmmm ? Failure rate of 5% ? I say due to people I know the failure rate is much higher ! Most failures happen at 110,000 miles and above. One fellow I know had his cam fail at 40,000 miles on his Scat Pack !
I would really be curious to know how many owners continue to properly maintain their vehicles after the warranty expires. Newer vehicles are plagued by problems related to poor maintenance. Theses newer vehicles especially rely on a minimum oil pressure or they self destruct; meaning as they age oil changes become much more important. These 5.7 l msd engines must run on synthetic oil with a maximum of 5000 miles between oil changes Chrysler says maximum of 10,000 which I would not trust (the change oil light will usually come on much sooner than that).
5% failure rate is probably only under warranty period. These lifter cam failures are extremely high just over 100k miles. Engines today with synthetic oil, fuel injection, computerized engine monitoring and regulating should get a minimum of 300k miles before catastrophic engine failure occurs. The 5.7 hemi engine will not do that and I know because I am about to have my second lifter/camshaft failure on my 2014 Ram 1500 5.7 hemi engine with 255K miles. First failure was at 154K and you couldn't get lifters because they had backorders of more than 20,000 sets. That's when you know there is a problem. I believe it is an oiling problem as well as a camshaft and lifter specification problem.
I’ll estimate maybe 10% of HEMI owners are “enthusiasts” enough to regular FB communities, with no data other than the people I’ve encountered over the years. So if half of them have lifter issues then the 5% is pretty accurate. Also, it’s estimated only half of vehicles produced are still on the road beyond 120k miles, so there is that variable as well.
As a tech who owns a 05 300c awd 5.7 without mds i don't worry too much as ill repair the engine. But this is very informative. And thank you, when I cam my engine soon ill for sure be upgrading to the hellcat lifters
I just found your channel and I have a 2011 challenger rt , I think your very great and explain things a lot in great detail
Awesome! Thank you for watching I appreciate it 👍
Super interesting video. I used to have an 05 Grand Cherokee with the 5.7. I drove it for about 110k miles without any lifter issue. Just did regular oil changes and used 5w30 all the time.
Great video, I just got done watching the uncle Tony one also. I've got a 5.7 in the shop it's a repeat from one of my customers. She had the original cam go out due to lifter failure at 160k, I put in a low mileage engine that had 25k on it. It lasted to the 170k mile mark and is starting to have the same failure. I think this is where Tony hit it on the head with the lack of oil over a long period of wear. Unlike other engines that the lifters/cam ran forever. I went to a tech school in the 80's so I spent a lot of time on how things are built. I get lost on the forums with people talking about oil and you mentioned also about the engineers. The funny part on the oil between 5/20 and 5/30 is we start talking about CAFE and CARB standards. We all talk about going down rabbit holes and I see people talking about only 5/20 but when you read every single owners manual under what oil they will all show using 5/30 under severe heat conditions and when I used to work on fleet vehicles. All fleets used to only run 5/30 including all of the rental car fleets in America. I hear all the stories about dealerships saying wrong viscosity, but i've never seen one in 30 years, but i'm a single mechanic and dealerships are seeing a much larger volume than my little shop does. keep putting up videos it was very informative. Thanks.
I've seen the incorrect oil viscosity code a few different times, but hilariously all of them were actually running the correct viscosity and the code was inaccurate. 😄
This is definitely a design problem....dont see chevys or fords or anyone else's engines eating lifters and cams. Uncle tony hit the nail on the head ......roller lifter should be pressure feed and these are not. the oiling system is from an antiquated slant 6 for crying out loud. I just bought a 2011 hemi 1500 at an auction....mistake. haven't owned a Dodge in awhile and probably will never own one again. dodge should be fixing these things and either change the design or scrap this engine.
As for the oil: I run 5w30 redline. I have no ticks and I have no CEL, though the main reason I choose to run 5w30 is because of the pcv design. Before switching to 5w30, I had to dump my catch can every 500-750 miles, after switching to 5w30 I'm at 2000 miles and the bottom of my catch can is filled. So like 1/8th of my catch can at the most. That alone was a huge benefit. Another thing i did while cleaning out my intake manifold was unplugging the solenoids for cylinder deactivation, that did throw a cel, but a tune got rid of that cel for me and it makes me more comfortable as I believe cylinder deactivation is the direct cause of the lifter problem in these hemis.
Even your comment section is full of information. I'm liking your channel😊
Great video sir. MOST videos don't go into depth on HOW a system works. You have and that's super valuable. I have a Hemi on a RAM 1500 and #7 is deactivated. I'm trying to figure out what's causing this. The system keeps burning up the coil on #7 and the time it takes keeps getting shorter and shorter. I'm also getting an overvoltage code. I'm trying to figure out what sends the voltage to the coil to see if that part has failed, etc.
This most important fact about all "engine stuff" was left out. That is that the US government and the EPA work endlessly to make sure Americans have the most INEFFICIENT engines the world has ever seen. They devise mechanical systems like the one in this video to give consumers the illusion that they will get better fuel economy, when in fact the system doesn't even need to exist. We have had the technology for DECADES to make an engine equal size to this Hemi get 100 mph no problem. But, they like our money... and nothing else.
Love the video. Had a 2014 hemi with lifter failure. Cost me $3800. Was told by a couple other mechanics afterwards to run it in 8cyl constantly to avoid the issue. That it’s the mds system that causes the issue. After watching your video now I’m afraid I’m damaging it by not letting it go into mds mode. You make a lot of sense for sure.
Appreciate you watching! 👍
How would it damage it? Long as the oil pump good you should be ok
Random suggestions brought me here, turbo yoda got me to subscribe lol.
Great content!
Normally things are designed by engineers, tested, sent back for cost cutting, then production starts...
Always listen to Turbo Yoda 😄
You're absolutely right about the process there. The accountants can very quickly take what was a solid design, and reduce it to a failure prone mess. Thanks for watching and subscribing! 👍
@@ReignitedAuto as an automotive engineer and Mopar nut, I really like your content after looking thru the older videos. Hopefully you can get some more subscribers and grow 😎
@@evil_me I appreciate that, thank you 👍
To me best explanation, thank you for sharing your knowledge .
This is the best explanation I have seen ..... Thank You
I like the theory gives you full v8 power at all times, no horrible sounding aftermarket exhaust from dropping into 4cylinder mode and all the while giving better oiling, someone needs to make this happen!
Interesting idea you presented. I was told by people that race new Gen Hemis (1 guy worked for SRT for several yrs) that the fix on ALL 5.7s, and 6.1s that DO NOT have MDS, is to use the updated HellCat ( also used in 392s) lifter. They are stronger and have been redesigned where the roller does not fail. They say to continue to use a top quality synthetic oil, changed at about 4k. For those with MDS, there is no update at this time.
Block out plates sounds really great the way you explained it pressurize all the time
Your opinion are brilliant brother keeping doing what you doing
Appreciate it man!
I have a 2012 Ram 1500, 5.7l hemi; I'm on my third engine due to lifter failure. The fail rate of 5% for those lifters I feel like is recorded within the 100,000 mile warranty period. I think its much higher between 100k and 200k. If that weren't true this video wouldn't have 100s of thousands of views and 2500 comments. I have no idea if this helps your theory but I will offer this information on my situation-
Engine 1- I bought the truck used with 111k miles, how it was treated prior I have no clue.( In my possession I take good care and maintain the vehicle as it should be, 3500-5000 miles between oil changes keep a good eye on all fluids and temperatures frequently etc..) at 148k the roller lifter "shell/wheel" broke and the needle bearings escaped to the oil pan. The noise was something between a lifter tap and a rod knock. Little louder than a tap not quite a knock, very apparent mechanical contact. The specific lifter was a non-mds type (no holes) it was the very first one from the front of the engine on the passenger side.
Engine 2- came out of a totaled/salvage 2015 ram 1500 with 54k on the dash. The non mds type lifer on the driver side , 4th from the front failed when my odometer was at 266,500 (266,500-148,000=118,500 I put on it + the 54k it had already= 172,500 total miles on the engine) the noise was the same in this instance, but when examined the shell/wheel hadn't broke or released any needle bearings but instead kind of crammed down into itself and jammed up.
In both instances I did not get a misfire, I pulled them both out and tore them apart to find a badly gouged cam lobe though. The first one I gave in for a core fee refund. on the most recent one I learned my lesson and am rebuilding #2 for the inevitable failure of #3 ( pulled from a 2013 with 115k miles on it already) . Here's the thing, an American V8 Truck engine should last until 300k if maintained properly, that's not a question. they did it in the past, I had an 01 silverado 4.8l 5 speed that I dogged the $h!+ out of for years it was my first truck and I raced it at every light and was known to pull thousands of pounds more than it was rated for on a regular basis (so heavy the problem was stopping ) I parted that thing out at 350k with the original engine and transmission STILL working in it not an issue in the world with it ( I didn't have the title and needed to get rid of it for a back seat after my daughter arrived) people calling for a recall is ignorance because it's not a safety issue but it is flat out despicable and complete horse $h!+
Nice explanation! I'm an old, out of practice A&P mech and this system is definitely genius! I also believe the problem lies in your lack of lubrication theory. I hope someone will test this out further or at least compile a ratio of mds to non-mds lifter/cam damage to compare. Thanks for the video! 👍
Thanks for watching!👍
Don't both the MDS in the solid lifter get the same lubrication in MDS because the pins deadhead in and they have the same pressure as the non MDS one so they would be getting oil pressure the same
If not that lack of oil, what else would cause the excessive wear on the mds roller bearings and the mds cam lobes only? Perhaps it's a simple as the mds lifter being allowed to collapse and not function as a solid, sliding lifter throwing oil around? Or maybe my thinking is off. Wouldn't be the first time...
Awesome content. Curious to know if you have been able to continue the inquiry into the constant on MDS concept. I like the way you think.
Subscribed and watching.
Appreciate you watching Kevin! If you feel like it, check out my latest video on this topic, it's in the pinned comment at the top 👍
My car does this to save fuel, I find this fascinating, great video... A big fan!!!
When that system shuts down and turns back on I really don't notice a power change going over grades on the roads on the highway...
I am a over three year mechanic professionally, walked away and became a truck driver. Bought a 2020 Ford truck, had no problems with this 3.3 V6 so far. Then bought my 2014 Dodge Challenger 5.7 Hemi from a dealer used of course, first thing I had to fix was a $1600 upgrade for new stock alternator, reworked for power wire off alternator and a new battery from a Dodge dealer. Now it works fine. But after buying from a dealership that wasn't a Dodge dealer I was very discouraged. But I love my car. Also the coolant tank was really low, and I was very concerned, but after filling it I haven't had any problems so far!!!
Man I've tried to explain that recall thing to sooooooo many people. From dealership experience tsb's are your best friend. I worked for Chevy for 6yrs and you learn alot about the sideways stuff that happens in the manufacturer world!
Another thing to check when the cam/lifter is replaced is to change the VVT solenoid. There are screens in there that catch the stuff from the cam/lifter destruction and will make their own ticking noise. The screens also get brittle and come apart on their own.
Good point! I forgot to put that in there. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ReignitedAuto So there is a Tech bulletin out on that and the VVT solenoid has been redesigned with perforated stainless steel instead of the wire mesh.
I know this comment is a year old at this point.....but wouldnt the vvt solenoid come BEFORE the lifter? And in saying that wouldnt it come AFTER the main engine oil filter? I assumed that any material wiped off the cam would fall into the oil pan and be filtered by the oil filter before being sent back around and into the vvt solenoid?
Great video. Very interesting and thought provoking. Thanks 👍
Great video. I'm going to have to watch it again a few more times.
I've been driving my 2012 Ram with the MDS shut off for about 200,000 miles. I haven't had any lifter issues. I disable the MDS simply by pressing the gear limit button on the shift lever. I've been doing this for years because when the truck goes into MDS the rattling/ticking noise the engine makes drives me up the wall, and I'm too cheap to delete the MDS.... lol. I even noticed an improvement in gas mileage after I started doing this by a couple miles per gallon. I also have only ran Mobile one full synthetic oil since the day I bought the truck new in 2012. 240,000+ miles and runs like a champ.
You folliwed the trail of clues in true professional form, and seem to have found the issue, or at least a few contributing factors, although I personally think there's another cause of lifter roller failure if I am correct here.
Here goes:
I've always had the impression that the lifters were the part of the lubrication system that was similar to the weight on a purge valve in a steam boiler system, and is designed to trap oil and keep it until it reaches a speciffic pressure before the oil pressure exceeds the limit of the lifters mechanical restriction and it escapes up the puhemup tube rods, and spits on the rockers and valve stems, and is left to gravity drain back to the sump, but never actually looked into this in detail, since it seems logical.
If what I've been led to believe for all these years, is true, then I think there's a chance that this holds a possible clue to the issue as well. It's a 50/50 shot, but since you've directed the lifters, and have an intimate understanding, maybe you can answer my question, but I'll probably look into it like right now.
Super interesting! Thanks for posting this video
Great info & right on the money with all of your points. People should watch how a car manufacturing assembly line is made. That will open a lot of peoples eyes on what the cost of changing production lines is.
Interesting video. I’ve had my 03 hemi ram since new. I noticed a ticking just after a few thousand miles. The dealership shop said it was normal and it persisted until just after 200,000 miles. It now has 215,000 miles and it’s completely gone. It runs as good as ever and the ticking is gone. I have always used mobile1 full synthetic and a K&N oil filter from its first oil change till now. Always 5w-30 I don’t know how or why it went away, but it did. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣. 18 years down and I hope many more to come.
Those first gen Hemi's were pretty solid! 👍
My 2010 manual trans is fine in the lifter dept. (Knock on wood). It did, at 79k miles, break an exhaust valve spring. I got the snap-on hemi spring compressor and changed all springs. Hopefully i am finished with engine woes.
Thank you for your explanation, very good. Just for everyone knows I have a 2018 lifter issue with 56000 miles and it happened a few miles after a late replacement, I read a metallurgist analysis in the roller and they couldn’t find any pitting on it was mean it have good lubrication but the oil was not sticking to it so the added properties to the oil were lost so I do really recommend not to wait until your car tell you to replace the oil, oil should be replaced earlier than every 10000 miles. Just giving my opinion and experience with this issue.
I'm with you on your idea, and another to consider, is replace the MDS activated lifters with regular ones, but creat a MDS solenoid eliminator. Basically a block plate, and forego the lifter plates.
I've read people have unplugged solenoid 7
That's an interesting angle on the issue, thanks!
Appreciate you watching! 👍
As a FCA parts manager, and former tech this is an exemplary explanation of the lifter management system. He is absolutely correct about idle management. It seems key to livelihood of the lifters. The only commentary I may add if that the roller bearings in the lifters them selves seem to be the weak point if any. Usually that is due to poor maintenance. General Motors has the same issue. Oil changes and quality of of oil can prolong the the use of the engine significantly.
Thanks for the feedback Carl! 👍
Agreed. Using the best possible oil from the start is your best insurance policy. Amsoil Signature Series 5w20 in my 2020 Ram 1500 Classic 5.7 from mile 0. Oil is cheap, engine repairs are expensive
Police departments have big issues with the lifters because they idle so much. Out of a 12 hour shift, the patrol unit is prolly running/idling for around 7 hours at least and for a K-9 patrol unit, per policy, the patrol unit must stay running for the entire shift because of the dog. So it's running/idling for 10 to 12 hours a day, at least 4 days a week for at minimum 5 years. Lol so yeah, lifter issues ha. 7k idle hour
@@Fitness195 ANY API certified 5W-20 oil will do any regular 5.7 just fine. Too much misguided belief that all forms of boutique oil will outperform all the rest. If it helps you sleep at night........
@@joeblowe7545 but the manual on the 2015+ 5.7 hemi chargers says that the oil must meet their standard and listed a specific code.
I really enjoy the video and learned a great deal how the valve deactivation system works. It’s a very ingenious idea and it really saves a lot of gas. I have a 6.4 on my car and one day for no reason the valve deactivation system stopped working. It was working on 8 cylinders only. I could not believe how fast that gas needle went from full to empty. At that moment I realized how important that system was for the fuel economy on these engines. I enjoy the performance but if I did anything to the engine performance wise I would try to keep the valve deactivation system.
I often tell people that in 95% of cases the MDS works just fine, if it's not bothering you don't do anything about it. 👍
@@ReignitedAuto
Unfortunately it bothered me and have the tick 😅💔
I have couple of paths and will take your advice definitely:
1) replace with oem everything (cam+lifter+solenoid)
2)replace with aftermarket or manual hemi cam and non mds lifters along with plugs.
3)your valuable advice
Grand Cherokee 2014
Thanks a million for your video
Very good info ! I always wondered if there was any resistance on the valve train while deactivated
Thanks for watching David!
I was waiting to see what you had. You literally hit what we came up with at our dealership.
Appreciate you watching! 👍
Good points. A couple items to consider: Did you notice that the connecting rods don't have traditional squirters to oil the opposite bore and reciprocating assembly? Maybe this also contributes to a loss of cam and lifter lube. Some of the engines have fixed block squirters, but not all of them; and those are just for the bores. The old way slings and squirts the oil in all directions. Also, you have to use the thin oil because the new engines are close bearing tolerance engines. Finally I noticed Jasper has videos where they are fixing the valve seat issue and other issues. I think the factory could make a few changes without re-tooling. Also, a video by MMX shows how defectively designed aftermarket lifters can dump the oil pressure as they move up and down. It's pretty interesting. Observations of an Engineer. Shalom
I'll take a look at that MMX video, thanks! 👍
Also the raised cam bore, and the cast in oil galley tube blocks oil sling to help lube the roller camshaft/lifters.
Absolutely awesome assessment!
Good shooting Tex! I like your idea and now I’m curious
Hi, I have been a FCA mechanic and shop foreman for 26 years , seen and done DOZENS of lifter/cam repairs ....your video is very informative . I currently have a 2013 ram with msd with no issues at 170000 k. I also have a 5.7l with stand alone fuel injection in a 1946 international truck , with the mds disabled and holes plugged . I would like to add my 2 cents worth.... out of the DOZENS of cam /lifters i have done , probably at least 90 % were on left bank cyl 1,3,5,7. ????? of course there were some on right side , very few . in fact just today I picked up a core 6.4L (292 ) BGE out of a 3500 that I am going to build for my International, and it also have # 7 cyl cam issue. Thanks Eric
Appreciate you chiming in Eric, always nice to hear from another Chrysler tech! Also, I just put out a brand new video yesterday on a new potential solution, check it out if you've got the time! 👍
What oil do you use? I use 5W-30 Full synthetic Mobil 1. I have 255 idle hours and 64,000 miles on it. I have a manifold tick but unsure of what the correct fix would be. Grade 8 bolts, new manifold?
Awesome, hope my 20’ Durango RT won’t have this issue. I decided to do my own oil/filter changes more frequently to hopefully make the 5.7 last longer.
Keep up the great work 🤘🤘
Thanks man I appreciate you watching! 👍 That Durango R/T is a sweet vehicle!
@@ReignitedAuto I’m going back and watching your Street fighter vids, etc.
I was thinking of getting a old ZRX1200 and doing the same. I’m a Kawi guy too (mx) and my mx number is 13!!! Lol (birthday)
Rock on dude!! 🤘🤘
@@monsterkxf Sweet! I hope there are more motorcycle guys like you because Thursdays video is a motorcycle one 😎
No, a 20 will have the AD lifters.
Don’t worry, if you have it long enough, they will fail! Probably on #5 or #7!
Man my 2005 hemi cherokee through 3 valve seats 2 weeks ago. She was driving it and had to of overheated it the intake melted a bit, when i got to it it smelled burnt like no smell ive every smelled in 25 years of wrenching. Your videos have cleared up so much and pointed me with knowledgeable info and in the right directions. Everyone thinks they know things and i almost listened. After 210k of abuse and 20k miles between oil changes just top off i only need to replace pistons. All bearings are perfect, im obviously still replacing everything i have some upgrades but i am basically building it like your 300. Im keeping the mds i had a solenoid go a year ago and turned off the mds and now replacing the solenoids. I have so much gunk in my intake and cai, so bought a better catch can and will have it on a fresh build instead of installation at 140k. These motors are great i beat this thing, beat charger rts, srt8 can pull away after 40mph and it goes through anything. Thank you for all these videos, i pulled my block apart and wating on parts to arrive. I did paint everywhere and made it very pretty as now i see this jeep going 300k more miles easy, while it was down my i fabbed new inner rockers welded them in and used dominator bedliner everywhere. Its a super clean jeep i get compliments everywhere and now ill get even more.
I lost my beloved 14 300c to mds failure I loved tht car so much couldn't afford it at the time but I'm much more mechanically inclined I wished u were here while I was researching this as it was happining to me but seeing these vids make me want a 300 5.7 again
Just want to share my experience of owning a 5.7 hemi. I own a 2013 Ram 1500 with 101k miles - bought it new. 4,400 engine hours with 23% idling. Average oil change interval is 6,680 miles. Conventional 5w-20 for first 76k miles with OEM oil filter. Full synthetic high mileage oil since. Have not had any problems with cams or lifters (fingers crossed). However, I did have the dealer replace broken exhaust manifold bolts at 64k miles, and taking it to the local muffler shop tomorrow to replace the OEM manifold with new shorty headers (broken rear bolts again!).
I have same truck and near same k/m and exact same problems were the manifold bolts nothing else so far.
I've owned a 1998 Ram Hemi, 2005 Ram Hemi and a 2008 Ram Hemi and never had issues with ANY parts from the hemi. Now, with that said, most mileage on the 3 was the 1998 when I traded it for the 2nd one, had 98k miles on it when I traded it. 2nd Ram which i got brand new, I put 55k miles on it and the 3rd Ram which I also got brand new, I put 60k miles on it lol never had transmission issues either with any of them
@@nexpro6118hemi wasn't in a 1998 ram
@@Jd0gIsMe my 98 had the 5.9L. HEMI came back out in, 2003. My other RAM trucks all had the HEMI. It's only a, 1800 dollar add when buying new. That's only about an extra, 25 to 30 bucks a month in payment with above average credit. With bad credit, its like another, 76 bucks a month ha.
Thanks for taking the time out and explaining why my lifters are ticking like a bomb. I did not know the full function of the MDS but now I have a bit of knowledge. My question is on the actual replacement of the lifters. I am very novice but I am mechanically inclined and have worked on minor motor repairs. Needless to say, I don’t own a Cherry Picker. Ha. So I don’t have a ton of money in the line of work my career path has taken me, so I have to try and do repairs myself. My Police Tahoe has something similar I noticed when patrolling, it drops from 8 to 4 cylinders to save fuel. Give your opinion on a scale 1-10 10 hardest, the difficulty on replacing the lifters. Can one be changed or do all or just the set of 4? I don’t have a garage to work in and I have limited tools. I believe I have the Haynes book on the car as well. Tell me if this is strictly a service mechanic job due to all the electronics or will it be as simple as me working on my old ‘87 Mustang Coupe with the 302? Thanks.
Any luck?
You're going to get into the engine you might have to replace all the lifters, but make sure that you submerge them in oil for at least 24 hours prior than doing it
you hit on some excellent points,i am lucky enough to have the hemi in 4 of my vehicles,the one in my 07 and 09 chargers have the minimal tick,my 2012 and 2017 are quiet as can be,that being said the mileage is vastly different between them all,and just like my harleys using differnet oils affect engine wear and noise,and if it gets bad enough ill take action,great channel bro really from one mechanic to another 🙌
Man I have a hemi tick I don't know what to do I don't know what it is but you video it's helpful I've been watching your videos try to find out what it is in my truck thank you for your help
Awesome video! Thanks for making it. I just bought my first RAM 1500, I've always been a Ford fan, but when it comes to trucks not so much anymore. My Grandfather lived and died by Ford, and is most likely rolling over in his grave right about now. I found your video very informative, this whole MDS is new to me, and your video went a long way to explain how it worked. Now, I'm going to cross my fingers and hope that my truck isn't in that 5%.
I find brand loyalty to be a very annoying thing. All manufacturers get it right, and all of them get it wrong too. No need to restrict yourself, so good on you for branching out! I hope the Hemi treats you well, I still think the ram truck with a Hemi is one of the best options right now. 👍
Great video explaining the oiling of the Hemi! I have been running Red Line 5w30 in my 2013 Ram 1500 5.7 since it had 22000 miles. It has 69600 on it now and have never had a check engine light for the wrong viscosity. I initially started because I got a hot idle tick using Pennzoil Platinum. So far my hot idle tick has stayed away and it runs smooth as silk. MDS works perfectly running the 5w30 as well. I have several UOAs showing wear numbers decreased running a 5w30.
Nice! Thanks for the feedback about running the heavier weight oil. I'm going to start compiling more information like that to do a possible update video later on. Thanks for watching! 👍
@@ReignitedAuto no problem, and thank YOU for making this video explaining the oiling of a modern Hemi!
Thanks for this video< very technical and informative, two thumbs up
Thank you for watching!
Thank you for your discussion and thoughts on an issue of never known on the hemi engine of specific years. Hopefully but highly unlikely I'd like to acquire an original pre 2000 426 hemi and I've even saw a rebuildable original hemi of the 300 cid version that was pre dated 1970 model. Of course not the power of today's hemi's but still a hemi original. Just so for knowledge saw it in Clovis NM. If you want to know where and if still available, do the research. That is how I found it but it was foot research one day back around twenty years ago.
There's actually more than just safety recalls. Back in the 90's, when I was a Chrysler tech (20+ years), we had to change radio knobs under a customer satisfaction recall. We also had to change vent valves on fuel tanks due to emissions. I JUST got done replacing my cam and lifters. The MDS lifters were the bum ones and ate the cam. I deleted the MDS and used non MDS lifters with a regular cam. No more problems! The cam manufacturer that I discussed this with stated that GM and Chrysler were having a problem was the needle bearings seizing. Good video
You might have answered my question. I made a comment too and I have a GM engine with AFM. I've decided its better to run without it. I keep my transmission in 5th gear manual mode which locks out the AFM. It still uses 1-5th gears as needed. My rpm is 2,100 at 65 mph which is as fast as I normally run. It will go faster! Trust me. I don't like four cylinders flopping around doing nothing and I still get 26mpg on the highway! I'm old and a ex drag racer. Mopar 340 SuperStocks!
With regards to the needle bearings seizing, could that possibly be due to not frequent enough oil changes and contamination getting in there destroying them?
@@TeknoVkng I teach automotive at a local high school and my truck is used to show oil chamges. Every 3000 miles, more than enough!
@ Dale Ezzell, I remember Chrysler honoring a recall of the early (Late 70's) Dodge Omnis & Plymouth Horizons because of some faulty final drive components in the trans-axle assy. Those cars also had recalls because of poor alternator case grounding... Both of those recalls were done, free of charge... Things have changed drastically between Now and back then... It is one of the many reasons WHY I'm not interested in buying a new car anymore... Over-engineered, over-complicated, and over-priced...
Thanks for the info
Good review/tutorial! Interesting finding on the lifter issue.
I now have 122,100 miles on my '12 5.7 hemi Challenger w/manual trans(no MDS), runs like a watch and always has.
Thanks man I appreciate it! 👍
I have an 09 also with the stick. Runs like a top. That cylinder deactivation is bad news! I'm also in Arizona, FWIW.
Yep, had a 14 challenger 6 SPD with the Tremec TR-6060. Always hated that weird forced shift from 1st to 3rd if I recall, so would normally just gas it hard enough to avoid it. Never had the tick.
Now I have a RAM with the hemi since I have kids now, run 89 octane though and so far no tick either, but I drive like an old man these days and change oil at 3k
I'd be interested to find out of pre-detonation from 87 and lower octane has any relevance to the lifter tick.
I just watched a video on using the Hellas oil pump on these motors, it is supposed to supply higher volume of oil thus more pressure. This could be a good solution in addition to the MDS block off plates.
Thank you for discussing this issue.