Love your videos man!! I have a 2014 grand cherokee with 5.7, what's your opinion on the idea that running a thicker oil (instead of the 5w-20) will help prevent the lifter failure tick?
You've got quite a few excellent observations, and as a powertrain engineer that daily drives a high mileage Hemi ('08 300 6.1L with 110k), I've been looking into prolonging its life. As some people have stated, vehicles with VVT and lots of idle hours (police Chargers, fleet Rams, etc) are the most commonly afflicted with lifter problems, but no Hemi is immune. Looking at the factory PCM tunes for the common Hemis, they tend to target a 500-550 RPM hot idle speed with 5W-20 oil. This is done to ensure the lowest emissions in these bread-and-butter engines. Meanwhile in non-MDS Hemis, they target a 700-725 RPM idle and mandate a 0W-40 Synthetic oil, and SRT engineers put out a TSB saying 15W-50 Synthetic was okay in warmer climates (TSB 09-011-06). As you can imagine, low emissions are not as much of a priority for these low production SRT and manual trans vehicles, so the engineers can recommend what the engine actually needs. So if you wanted to improve longevity, I'd start with the easiest thing: tuning in a higher idle speed for more oil pressure, and using thicker synthetic oil. And for more in-depth hardware changes, ditching the solenoids like you said and possibly switching to the high-volume SRT or even Melling oil pumps. I'm not sure if it's wise to use non-MDS lifters on an MDS cam. Typically, a deactivating lifter collapses faster/further than a non-deactivating lifter. To compensate for this, a deac cam lobe will have an additional 4-7° duration at 0.050" tappet lift, sometimes 60° or more additional duration at 0.006" tappet lift, and an additional 0.25 mm of valve lift. I'd imagine using the same style lifters on all cylinders with an MDS cam would put the engine out of balance with half the cylinders making more power than the other half. But it may not be a big deal. Sorry to put an essay in your youtube video lol
@@ReignitedAuto Absolutely, go right ahead. The idle speeds I posted are sourced from factory stock PCM calibrations read with HP Tuners, and the MDS camshaft numbers are based on GM Gen III - V small blocks with DoD. I haven't seen any cam doctor results from Hemi cams, but I'd be surprised if they're super different. Fun fact about GM's cylinder deac: every version of it turns off cylinders 1, 4, 6, & 7 except the new Corvette's LT2. The LT2 deactivates cylinders 2, 3, 5, & 8. Makes you wonder if there's some NVH from DoD that changes when the engine moves from in front of the cabin to behind.
I have the 6.4 in my 16 power wagon. At idle 550rpm my oil pressure is over 40psi hot. And it doesn’tt vary much. It goes up to 55psi at high rpm. I use the Penzoil 0-40 synthetic. So pressure isn’t an issue and at $9 a quart it better protect
What happens if instead of ditching the solenoids, you deactivate the solenoids by limiting the gear shift to the 7th gear instead of lettung it go all the way to the 8th? Any negative effect on the engine itself or the transmission?
I have my 05 ram hemi with almost 400,000 miles for 16 years and it's still running strong! Only things replaced have been water pump and fuel pump. Love my hemi!
I have a 2012 Ram 1500, 5.7l hemi; I'm on my third engine due to lifter failure. The fail rate of 5% for those lifters I feel like is recorded within the 100,000 mile warranty period. I think its much higher between 100k and 200k. If that weren't true this video wouldn't have 100s of thousands of views and 2500 comments. I have no idea if this helps your theory but I will offer this information on my situation- Engine 1- I bought the truck used with 111k miles, how it was treated prior I have no clue.( In my possession I take good care and maintain the vehicle as it should be, 3500-5000 miles between oil changes keep a good eye on all fluids and temperatures frequently etc..) at 148k the roller lifter "shell/wheel" broke and the needle bearings escaped to the oil pan. The noise was something between a lifter tap and a rod knock. Little louder than a tap not quite a knock, very apparent mechanical contact. The specific lifter was a non-mds type (no holes) it was the very first one from the front of the engine on the passenger side. Engine 2- came out of a totaled/salvage 2015 ram 1500 with 54k on the dash. The non mds type lifer on the driver side , 4th from the front failed when my odometer was at 266,500 (266,500-148,000=118,500 I put on it + the 54k it had already= 172,500 total miles on the engine) the noise was the same in this instance, but when examined the shell/wheel hadn't broke or released any needle bearings but instead kind of crammed down into itself and jammed up. In both instances I did not get a misfire, I pulled them both out and tore them apart to find a badly gouged cam lobe though. The first one I gave in for a core fee refund. on the most recent one I learned my lesson and am rebuilding #2 for the inevitable failure of #3 ( pulled from a 2013 with 115k miles on it already) . Here's the thing, an American V8 Truck engine should last until 300k if maintained properly, that's not a question. they did it in the past, I had an 01 silverado 4.8l 5 speed that I dogged the $h!+ out of for years it was my first truck and I raced it at every light and was known to pull thousands of pounds more than it was rated for on a regular basis (so heavy the problem was stopping ) I parted that thing out at 350k with the original engine and transmission STILL working in it not an issue in the world with it ( I didn't have the title and needed to get rid of it for a back seat after my daughter arrived) people calling for a recall is ignorance because it's not a safety issue but it is flat out despicable and complete horse $h!+
2012 5.7 Big Horn 4x4 with 205k miles. I've replaced 2 batteries, starter & windshield washer pump. Great trucks if you maintain & don't beat on them....
Same here. My 2015 started ticking at 20K miles and was getting worse when i sold it. 5% fail but 100% start ticking and get sold before failure which is unacceptable!
THANK YOU! You are the FIRST person I've come across who ACTUALLY explains HOW mds FUNCTIONS. Most explanations just say, "Oh, 4 cylinders are deactivated by the computer using solenoids." That doesn't tell me squat! I want(ed) to know HOW the cylinders are shut off (mechanically) and you showed me that. Kudos to you sir, thank you so much!
My guy here just spitting out business decision facts that nobody wants to hear ha. Most people that complain about the lifter issue (the 5% of you) all think they are so super special and because they are complaining about, Chrysler should then spend tens of millions of dollars to fix it for that 5% lmao
Can I get rid of the MDS system on my 08 charger 5.7? I have a po300 code . everything is working new plugs coil injectors O2 sensors.i don't think it's the cam .I'm thinking computer or fuel pump ?
Hi. I thank you for your time in researching this potential issue! We have a 2006 300c SRT-8. The 6.1 has almost 130.000 miles on it!. At 67,000 miles, we had a oil pump failure! It always have mobile 1. 0-40w in it. We Put a melling pump 10432 select. With stock pressure rated spring in it. Up to the pump starting to fail. This 6.1 was a little noisy on cold start from day one, for my taste. Being a Dodge Cummins fantastic. That started in 1990. I changed from the mobile1 0-w40, To Rotella T-6 0-40w.WOW! No!! Lifter tick! And no main bearing knock or gargel is what we call it here in TEXAS, don't let your local part store tell you that Rotella T-6 is not made in 0-40w! Put a vacuum oil canister on your gen3 or gen4 HEMI too. I was shocked how much oil was in it after one thousand miles! There was 5-6 oz's in it. Reminder! If you're Hemi has piston oil squirters! Check your vacuum oil canister about every 500. Miles or so. I know people are going to say, That's a Diesel oil!! All the chemicals or additives that are needed for flat tappet Cam in a Cummins to live. And only need adjusted every 100,000-150,000 miles!! By the way. My daily drivers is a 2004.5 DODGE 3/4 4x4. A 5.9 Cummins triple compound Bullseye 366/71mm turbocharged, twin Cp3 12mm pumps.For a very short list. Runs 10.20's @ 132.59. And the Rotella T-6 0-40w. Is all this truck has ever seen! O Yeah? Just over 210,200 MILES ON IT!! Still no blow by !! Knock on wood !! ALSO THANK YOU FOR NOT USING FOUL LANGUAGE!! Real men are gentlemen and puts the LORD first in our life's! Then our Family! And 3 is supposed to be our jobs! ? Or is it our love of our hotrod? GEAR HEAD FOR LIFE. AND A HEMI, no matter what generation it is! #1
Hi, I have been a FCA mechanic and shop foreman for 26 years , seen and done DOZENS of lifter/cam repairs ....your video is very informative . I currently have a 2013 ram with msd with no issues at 170000 k. I also have a 5.7l with stand alone fuel injection in a 1946 international truck , with the mds disabled and holes plugged . I would like to add my 2 cents worth.... out of the DOZENS of cam /lifters i have done , probably at least 90 % were on left bank cyl 1,3,5,7. ????? of course there were some on right side , very few . in fact just today I picked up a core 6.4L (292 ) BGE out of a 3500 that I am going to build for my International, and it also have # 7 cyl cam issue. Thanks Eric
Appreciate you chiming in Eric, always nice to hear from another Chrysler tech! Also, I just put out a brand new video yesterday on a new potential solution, check it out if you've got the time! 👍
What oil do you use? I use 5W-30 Full synthetic Mobil 1. I have 255 idle hours and 64,000 miles on it. I have a manifold tick but unsure of what the correct fix would be. Grade 8 bolts, new manifold?
@@ReignitedAuto hi I was wondering I posted up a video on my channel I don’t know if it’s a bad lifter or exhaust manifold bolt that broke can you check out the video and let me know thank you
@@ReignitedAuto So with block off plate instead, which bores will be pressured? I'm guessing only once with mds? Is there oil passeges for non mds liftes too?
@@ReignitedAuto I'm assuming solinoids are not on / off type, it's more like slow flow for lubrication wnen mds not active and high flow when mds activated. If you look at Honda's vtec system, it passes some oil for lubrication when vtec isn't active and opens fill oil flow to activate vtec pins. Thanks for your response
As a FCA parts manager, and former tech this is an exemplary explanation of the lifter management system. He is absolutely correct about idle management. It seems key to livelihood of the lifters. The only commentary I may add if that the roller bearings in the lifters them selves seem to be the weak point if any. Usually that is due to poor maintenance. General Motors has the same issue. Oil changes and quality of of oil can prolong the the use of the engine significantly.
Agreed. Using the best possible oil from the start is your best insurance policy. Amsoil Signature Series 5w20 in my 2020 Ram 1500 Classic 5.7 from mile 0. Oil is cheap, engine repairs are expensive
Police departments have big issues with the lifters because they idle so much. Out of a 12 hour shift, the patrol unit is prolly running/idling for around 7 hours at least and for a K-9 patrol unit, per policy, the patrol unit must stay running for the entire shift because of the dog. So it's running/idling for 10 to 12 hours a day, at least 4 days a week for at minimum 5 years. Lol so yeah, lifter issues ha. 7k idle hour
@@Fitness195 ANY API certified 5W-20 oil will do any regular 5.7 just fine. Too much misguided belief that all forms of boutique oil will outperform all the rest. If it helps you sleep at night........
My car does this to save fuel, I find this fascinating, great video... A big fan!!! When that system shuts down and turns back on I really don't notice a power change going over grades on the roads on the highway... I am a over three year mechanic professionally, walked away and became a truck driver. Bought a 2020 Ford truck, had no problems with this 3.3 V6 so far. Then bought my 2014 Dodge Challenger 5.7 Hemi from a dealer used of course, first thing I had to fix was a $1600 upgrade for new stock alternator, reworked for power wire off alternator and a new battery from a Dodge dealer. Now it works fine. But after buying from a dealership that wasn't a Dodge dealer I was very discouraged. But I love my car. Also the coolant tank was really low, and I was very concerned, but after filling it I haven't had any problems so far!!!
Dude I’m a beginner in the mechanic world ive been doing it about 2 yrs and I love watching your videos man so honest and informative instead of just hating or loving certain things. Really can learn some stuff from ppl like you man it’s so cool.
I have a 2003 5.7 in TX that I bought used around 98k. They changed the lifter kits and springs as they where broken and gas Mileage sucked. But the thing is a beast now. I wasn’t mechanically inclined then, but this is the most informative video I have found. Bravo señor, look forward for more videos.
When I mean the way you take your time to explain things detailed are amazing!!! I love my 2018 RT Hemi… my uncle is a old war vet and he talks about when the Hemi came out and he knows the 5.7 & 6.4 like the back of his hand… he spoke about the lifters but to be honest it’s the driver as well…if you got a heavy foot make sure u got a heavy wallet to pay for repairs…much appreciated for all your videos I feel like a certified mechanic and I do body work! It’s all about the way a person teaching another person to help them gain knowledge…very detailed and very easy to follow along…never thought the Hemi was this easy to work on!!!
the heavy foot brings up revs and lubricates properly, low revs is the problem. 5.7 hemi engines stand up very well to being driven hard, in my 170,000km driving 2 of them the only costly things so far are the octane and rubber that it burns and I have a very heavy foot in my rt challenger($1500 full set of rubber burned since spring I need new tires after 8,000km), also has a manual transmission and no MDS so the stick is the way to go yet again
Hey guys, I wanted to clarify something because I've gotten a lot of comments about this: I don't think I was clear enough in the video, but I don't believe that the lifter bores don't get ANY oil when the MDS isn't activated, rather I meant that when the MDS solenoids are activated the lifter bores receive PRESSURIZED oil flow. Hope that clears things up! Appreciate all the feedback guys, keep it coming 👍
My belief is these people are making a mistake with there motor... don’t pull the dip stick & check the oil before you park ... check your oil before you start your car .... make sure you use a quality filter designed for your motor... “so I use dealer filters “ also to stop ✋ a dry start make shore the system is closed when pouring the old in the crankcase.... fill the crankcase with a study flow when you’re filling ... also guy’s it would help to fill the oil filter with oil before u put the filter on .... love your videos 😎😎😎😎
@@leonardsmith8475 I always filled the new filter with oil, but when doing my first oil change in my 2020 ram hemi I noticed the new filter (puralator boss) says not to prime it with oil. Checked the old mopar filter and it also doesn't say anything about priming it with oil so I didn't do it.
i recently got a ram 1500 5.7 and now I'm watching all of your videos. it has 52k on it, but I plan to keep that truck for a very LONG time. I really appreciate all of the knowledge you're willing to share with us. Thank you!
Just want to share my experience of owning a 5.7 hemi. I own a 2013 Ram 1500 with 101k miles - bought it new. 4,400 engine hours with 23% idling. Average oil change interval is 6,680 miles. Conventional 5w-20 for first 76k miles with OEM oil filter. Full synthetic high mileage oil since. Have not had any problems with cams or lifters (fingers crossed). However, I did have the dealer replace broken exhaust manifold bolts at 64k miles, and taking it to the local muffler shop tomorrow to replace the OEM manifold with new shorty headers (broken rear bolts again!).
I've owned a 1998 Ram Hemi, 2005 Ram Hemi and a 2008 Ram Hemi and never had issues with ANY parts from the hemi. Now, with that said, most mileage on the 3 was the 1998 when I traded it for the 2nd one, had 98k miles on it when I traded it. 2nd Ram which i got brand new, I put 55k miles on it and the 3rd Ram which I also got brand new, I put 60k miles on it lol never had transmission issues either with any of them
@@Jd0gIsMe my 98 had the 5.9L. HEMI came back out in, 2003. My other RAM trucks all had the HEMI. It's only a, 1800 dollar add when buying new. That's only about an extra, 25 to 30 bucks a month in payment with above average credit. With bad credit, its like another, 76 bucks a month ha.
Love this explanation. First time Ram owner but lifelong car enthusiast. So I obviously research the crap out of things like this. What I couldn't wrap my head around is the only 5% failure. Mostly due to me following a ton of fb pages for the 4th gen Ram, and it seemed like every other member has had a lifter failure. So it seems like 5% is pretty low compared to what I see just on fb enthusiasts pages, where we generally overmaintain our vehicles. But if your theory is correct, this would make sense . I would say that 80-90% of members turn off the mds manually with the gear selector, myself included because we hate the sound and are under the assumption that it doesn't harm, or helps with the lifter issue. So this whole time, while trying to prevent the issue, we have been doing the opposite and starving the lifter. This would actually make a lot of sense
Hmmm ? Failure rate of 5% ? I say due to people I know the failure rate is much higher ! Most failures happen at 110,000 miles and above. One fellow I know had his cam fail at 40,000 miles on his Scat Pack !
I would really be curious to know how many owners continue to properly maintain their vehicles after the warranty expires. Newer vehicles are plagued by problems related to poor maintenance. Theses newer vehicles especially rely on a minimum oil pressure or they self destruct; meaning as they age oil changes become much more important. These 5.7 l msd engines must run on synthetic oil with a maximum of 5000 miles between oil changes Chrysler says maximum of 10,000 which I would not trust (the change oil light will usually come on much sooner than that).
5% failure rate is probably only under warranty period. These lifter cam failures are extremely high just over 100k miles. Engines today with synthetic oil, fuel injection, computerized engine monitoring and regulating should get a minimum of 300k miles before catastrophic engine failure occurs. The 5.7 hemi engine will not do that and I know because I am about to have my second lifter/camshaft failure on my 2014 Ram 1500 5.7 hemi engine with 255K miles. First failure was at 154K and you couldn't get lifters because they had backorders of more than 20,000 sets. That's when you know there is a problem. I believe it is an oiling problem as well as a camshaft and lifter specification problem.
I’ll estimate maybe 10% of HEMI owners are “enthusiasts” enough to regular FB communities, with no data other than the people I’ve encountered over the years. So if half of them have lifter issues then the 5% is pretty accurate. Also, it’s estimated only half of vehicles produced are still on the road beyond 120k miles, so there is that variable as well.
I have a 5.7 HEMI in my 2013 Durango. Almost 250,000 miles on it. It's had a full synthetic, OE viscosity, oil change every 5K miles for its entire life. Still runs strong.
2:25 its not less than 5% its more than 20% percentage just randomly that i gave but we have the issue even in middle east specifically in oman every owner had the saam issue
I had a 2014 Ram that developed a lifter tick around 101,000 miles. I was shocked because I changed oil every 5000 miles with Mobil 1 synthetic oil & filter. As soon as I heard the ticking, I changed my oil and put 1 qt of Marvelous Mystery oil, I was thinking it must be gum or tarnish causing the lifter tick, then I started researching the tick online and that's when I found out it is a common problem and when I saw the fix of standard lifters and removing the solenoids I figured that the redirection of oil supply must be the problem. FYI- The MMO treatment did seam to clear my ticking problem over a short period. Long story short, I cut bait, traded that truck in for a newer truck ( Not Dodge either!) I suspect if you eliminated the MDS soon enough it may prevent a costly repair. Just my 2 cents.
There is another video of a mechanic that says that the lifter failure is not related to long oil change intervals. He has seen failures on trucks that were on a service schedule. I am going to put 5,000 miles on my 2010 300c and send the oil in for analysis. I don't idle my engines for more than a couple of minutes before driving. I also have a 2014 Ram with the 5.7, I have my fingers crossed!
I have a better solution for lifter tick . Use my Turbofield Nano Treatment and solve your problem for long long time . Treated many trucks with great results
@@terrylarson7596 before I traded my Ram in I went to NAPA to look into an oil sample kit. The parts guy told me they are going through tons of cam and lifters for the local police cars. Since they idle a lot the lifters get very little lubrication. I also saw another video that explained how the solenoids work. When the engine has all cylinders firing the solenoids block off the oil galley. It’s oil pressure that deactivates the lifters. He suggested doing away with MDS install caps in place of the solenoids and reprogram the computer so it doesn’t look for solenoids
I've been driving my 2012 Ram with the MDS shut off for about 200,000 miles. I haven't had any lifter issues. I disable the MDS simply by pressing the gear limit button on the shift lever. I've been doing this for years because when the truck goes into MDS the rattling/ticking noise the engine makes drives me up the wall, and I'm too cheap to delete the MDS.... lol. I even noticed an improvement in gas mileage after I started doing this by a couple miles per gallon. I also have only ran Mobile one full synthetic oil since the day I bought the truck new in 2012. 240,000+ miles and runs like a champ.
Love the video. Had a 2014 hemi with lifter failure. Cost me $3800. Was told by a couple other mechanics afterwards to run it in 8cyl constantly to avoid the issue. That it’s the mds system that causes the issue. After watching your video now I’m afraid I’m damaging it by not letting it go into mds mode. You make a lot of sense for sure.
Switching to 5w30 instead of the recommended "water" completely changed the sound of my 2022. My previous vehicle was a Honda 4- cylinder, and I was shocked how similar my Hemi sounded with all the clicks and ticks while idling. After the change, my Hemi sounds more like the one in my daughter's '04 Durango, the way a V8 Hemi SHOULD sound.
I think you've done it . You've removed the to low seat pressure simulation by weaker than valve spring springs , kept constant oil pressure to keep contact I roller on cam and mist importantly put as much lube s possible on that roller and associated needle bearings. You got a big thumbs up and an old mechanics subscription.Thanks for not letting go of this issue.
Great discussion with the lifter issues. It's crazy that I have an issue that I suspect is a lifter failure with my 17 ram 1500 5.7 with 120,000 miles yet have had no problems with my 05 magnum rt with 260,000 miles on it
Bought our 09 Ram 1500 new, still have it now in 2022, with 211,000km. My daily driver, done lots of towing, hauling heavy loads in the box, and I have always tried to get it into 4cyl as often as possible. At only 3,000km it started to "tick" at idle when below minus 20 celcius (Calgary Canada), swapped to full synthetic, instant fix. At around the 30,000km service I used regular oil, within 2,000km it ticked again, so drianed and refilled with full synthetic, noise stopped. Been using full synthetic ever since, no problem. I am a Technician of 40 years, thanks for the indepth demo of he system, as I understood the MDS concept, but never having worked on these didn't know the full operation.
This is all related to oil temp, oil condition, idle time and OIL TEMP! If you are running at full tilt (drag strip, towing all the time) you need a oil cooler with remote radiator! Problem solved! Some do have a problem with weak springs, again maybe do to heat, that cause the lifter to bounce on the lobe causing the failure of the needle bearings in the rollers. Almost all of the one's I changed for noise had the roller plating failed, most came in with misfire problems. Once the plating fails it is just a matter of time before the cam wears or the roller fails. And 90% of them was cylinder 5, non mds lifter, and highest heat area when running in mds mode or not. 30yr chry tech! I have seen the same thing on other engines with rollers used in drag racing. And there is a TSB but it only applies to police vehicles, and just says check the cam for misfire problems.
I have a 2015 5.7 Hemi. I've had the hemi tick. Had to cam, lifters, pushrods, ext. Everything was replaced. Getting ready to do the 3rd set of push rods. Keep wearing the ends off. Everything else looks great.
There's actually more than just safety recalls. Back in the 90's, when I was a Chrysler tech (20+ years), we had to change radio knobs under a customer satisfaction recall. We also had to change vent valves on fuel tanks due to emissions. I JUST got done replacing my cam and lifters. The MDS lifters were the bum ones and ate the cam. I deleted the MDS and used non MDS lifters with a regular cam. No more problems! The cam manufacturer that I discussed this with stated that GM and Chrysler were having a problem was the needle bearings seizing. Good video
You might have answered my question. I made a comment too and I have a GM engine with AFM. I've decided its better to run without it. I keep my transmission in 5th gear manual mode which locks out the AFM. It still uses 1-5th gears as needed. My rpm is 2,100 at 65 mph which is as fast as I normally run. It will go faster! Trust me. I don't like four cylinders flopping around doing nothing and I still get 26mpg on the highway! I'm old and a ex drag racer. Mopar 340 SuperStocks!
With regards to the needle bearings seizing, could that possibly be due to not frequent enough oil changes and contamination getting in there destroying them?
@ Dale Ezzell, I remember Chrysler honoring a recall of the early (Late 70's) Dodge Omnis & Plymouth Horizons because of some faulty final drive components in the trans-axle assy. Those cars also had recalls because of poor alternator case grounding... Both of those recalls were done, free of charge... Things have changed drastically between Now and back then... It is one of the many reasons WHY I'm not interested in buying a new car anymore... Over-engineered, over-complicated, and over-priced...
Another thing to check when the cam/lifter is replaced is to change the VVT solenoid. There are screens in there that catch the stuff from the cam/lifter destruction and will make their own ticking noise. The screens also get brittle and come apart on their own.
@@ReignitedAuto So there is a Tech bulletin out on that and the VVT solenoid has been redesigned with perforated stainless steel instead of the wire mesh.
I know this comment is a year old at this point.....but wouldnt the vvt solenoid come BEFORE the lifter? And in saying that wouldnt it come AFTER the main engine oil filter? I assumed that any material wiped off the cam would fall into the oil pan and be filtered by the oil filter before being sent back around and into the vvt solenoid?
If, in fact, the mopar plugs do keep the system "ON" or with additional lubrication, GREAT!! What I'd also like to see is lifters with tiny slots, kerfs, channels, that would spray pressurized oil onto the roller ends so that the roller needles are always being oiled, rather than depend on splashing oil.. We, in America, are seeing millions more cars on the roads and that means more and more lights and longer wait times at red lights. That means more time sitting at idle.. Splash oiling doesn't do a lot sitting at idle in gear. Great channel, by the way!!!! I love your determination!!
Great video, I just got done watching the uncle Tony one also. I've got a 5.7 in the shop it's a repeat from one of my customers. She had the original cam go out due to lifter failure at 160k, I put in a low mileage engine that had 25k on it. It lasted to the 170k mile mark and is starting to have the same failure. I think this is where Tony hit it on the head with the lack of oil over a long period of wear. Unlike other engines that the lifters/cam ran forever. I went to a tech school in the 80's so I spent a lot of time on how things are built. I get lost on the forums with people talking about oil and you mentioned also about the engineers. The funny part on the oil between 5/20 and 5/30 is we start talking about CAFE and CARB standards. We all talk about going down rabbit holes and I see people talking about only 5/20 but when you read every single owners manual under what oil they will all show using 5/30 under severe heat conditions and when I used to work on fleet vehicles. All fleets used to only run 5/30 including all of the rental car fleets in America. I hear all the stories about dealerships saying wrong viscosity, but i've never seen one in 30 years, but i'm a single mechanic and dealerships are seeing a much larger volume than my little shop does. keep putting up videos it was very informative. Thanks.
I've seen the incorrect oil viscosity code a few different times, but hilariously all of them were actually running the correct viscosity and the code was inaccurate. 😄
This is definitely a design problem....dont see chevys or fords or anyone else's engines eating lifters and cams. Uncle tony hit the nail on the head ......roller lifter should be pressure feed and these are not. the oiling system is from an antiquated slant 6 for crying out loud. I just bought a 2011 hemi 1500 at an auction....mistake. haven't owned a Dodge in awhile and probably will never own one again. dodge should be fixing these things and either change the design or scrap this engine.
I think that the block off plug for the solenoid valve is basically doing what you are suggesting with setting the mds on at all times. That would be a normally closed solenoid and then open to allow oil flow when mds is activated. That block off plate is just keeping oil from dumping out of the top of the bore unless I'm not seeing it correctly.
You are indeed correct! This video is a few years old now and I've done quite a bit of further research into this issue. If you'd like to see some more current information check out the video in the pinned comment at the top. 👍
I've been around quit awhile and been a Mopar Fan for years and seen a lot of the 426 Hemi's and I have NEVER seen a lifter or cam failure on one of them Not One! The Government Emission's Requirements and the New Engineers have all but Killed a good dependable motor anymore, Sad! I've owned Slant Six's 318's, 383's 440's and a couple of 426's and they were super good motor's now it seems like they just build Junk and good luck trying to get Warranty Work done!! That's my Rant for today. Nice Video I just bought a 2022 Ram with the 6.4 Hemi in it we'll see.
I like the theory gives you full v8 power at all times, no horrible sounding aftermarket exhaust from dropping into 4cylinder mode and all the while giving better oiling, someone needs to make this happen!
Man my 2005 hemi cherokee through 3 valve seats 2 weeks ago. She was driving it and had to of overheated it the intake melted a bit, when i got to it it smelled burnt like no smell ive every smelled in 25 years of wrenching. Your videos have cleared up so much and pointed me with knowledgeable info and in the right directions. Everyone thinks they know things and i almost listened. After 210k of abuse and 20k miles between oil changes just top off i only need to replace pistons. All bearings are perfect, im obviously still replacing everything i have some upgrades but i am basically building it like your 300. Im keeping the mds i had a solenoid go a year ago and turned off the mds and now replacing the solenoids. I have so much gunk in my intake and cai, so bought a better catch can and will have it on a fresh build instead of installation at 140k. These motors are great i beat this thing, beat charger rts, srt8 can pull away after 40mph and it goes through anything. Thank you for all these videos, i pulled my block apart and wating on parts to arrive. I did paint everywhere and made it very pretty as now i see this jeep going 300k more miles easy, while it was down my i fabbed new inner rockers welded them in and used dominator bedliner everywhere. Its a super clean jeep i get compliments everywhere and now ill get even more.
As extra insurance I use a high zinc level racing oil, I noticed when I switched from Mobil 1 High Mileage to Royal Purple on another vehicle that developed a tick that it went away with the high zinc oil. The oil is around $18 a quart and if you don't want to spend that much Lucas makes a zinc additive that does the same. The oil is only part of it, you need to buy at least a Wix Xp filter or just buy a K&N oil filter. I only use the K&N due to its micron number which catches everything.
In the 2016 production FCA quietly upgraded the lifters adding stronger roller needle bearings. The tolerances require using the correct oil. Use synthetic. Change oil often. Some of the failures have been equated to high idle time on the engine.
@@dh4094 Check out my previous video for more info, the excessive idle wouldn't be like getting stuck in traffic, more like letting the vehicle sit and idle for hours at a time like fleet vehicles do. Thanks for watching 👍
Love to hear more information on this upgrade. Just bought a 2021 Ram and I’m wondering now about my decision. Also using wrong oil weight may void the warranty right?
The needle bearings on mine were all perfect. The roller the needles sit in were perfect. The pin the bearings rotated around was ovaled. How does that happen? What went in the one shown? The needles or the pin?
You folliwed the trail of clues in true professional form, and seem to have found the issue, or at least a few contributing factors, although I personally think there's another cause of lifter roller failure if I am correct here. Here goes: I've always had the impression that the lifters were the part of the lubrication system that was similar to the weight on a purge valve in a steam boiler system, and is designed to trap oil and keep it until it reaches a speciffic pressure before the oil pressure exceeds the limit of the lifters mechanical restriction and it escapes up the puhemup tube rods, and spits on the rockers and valve stems, and is left to gravity drain back to the sump, but never actually looked into this in detail, since it seems logical. If what I've been led to believe for all these years, is true, then I think there's a chance that this holds a possible clue to the issue as well. It's a 50/50 shot, but since you've directed the lifters, and have an intimate understanding, maybe you can answer my question, but I'll probably look into it like right now.
Thank you for this, as many others have said, you did a better job going through this subject than all the other videos I have watched. A lot of the others almost seem like they are trying to freak us out, like the evening news with scare tactics. I am a long time ACVW guy but recently bought a high mileage 06 Charger R/T. All the Hemi chatter on this subject really freaked me out to a point that I was considering doing a major teardown just to eliminate the MDF lifters and solenoids and doing a tuner delete on the system. I really can't afford to replace or rebuild an engine, so I thought this was a good option. But you have eased my mind quite a bit, especially with your number that you threw out that less than 5% of them have an issue, most of them being fleet vehicles or people that sit in NYC traffic. I do not sit in traffic, I drive 55 mph for 40 minutes to and from work every day and I run good oil and change it on time. Thanks again.
Especially since the pre 2009 model years don't really seem to suffer this issue you're in good shape! I actually really like the '06 models.. Thanks for watching!
General Motors has the same issue with the LS engines with a similar system to MDS. The only lifters that fail directly correspond to the cylinders that deactivate. The only guarantee to eliminate the issue is a kit that replaces the lifters and special rivets to block off specific oil passages. The issue is in the lifters themselves
@Hybrid Libertarian so let me get this straight, because you’ve never personally experienced it the problem doesn’t exist. Well I’ve never personally experienced or seen lifter failure in a Hemi but I don’t deny it happens. FYI, I spent many years as a GM certified technician. And in those years I replaced many of camshafts, lifters and engines as a result of lifter failer. But if you don’t believe me, feel free to search it here on RUclips and see for yourself.
I've been a professional mechanic for over 30 years, mostly on GM cars, but I can remember camshaft failures on the 305 Chevrolet engine. I have a 2011 jeep grand Cherokee hemi and love it. The biggest thing i do is I always use mobil 1 synthetic oil. I think synthetic oil makes a huge difference!
Police departments that are using the Chevy Tahoe PPVs from 2018 to 2022 are having lifter and camshaft fails at or near 10k miles because of GMs version of the fuel saving displacement system and its not just a few of them. Its A LOT of them that are failing that soon and when replaced and fixed, the lifters and or camshafts are failing again within 5k miles. Now that can't be factory issue right? Can it be that the fuel saving system is that horrible on the GMs or the material used for the lifters and camshafts are just junk? Police department maintenance policies are to not disconnect the fuel saving management system.
Good analysis. Decades ago, I sort-of MDS'ed one cylinder of my 1969 slant-six to disable a worn cylinder until I could swap in a long-block. First, I just removed the solid lifters and pushrods, but a co-worker said that would cause loss of oil pressure (untrue). Fearing that, I put the lifters back, but added weak springs w/ copper tube "pushrods" so they ran against the camshaft lobes but didn't open the valves. Turns out the slant's lifter bores have no oil ports, rather the lifters are just oiled by splash and drip.
Good video, as I've said on other similar videos the GMs and other brands with similar lifters have the same problem. I've replace these on more 5.3s than I can count. A major take away I liked is the need to install the replacement caps after turning off MDS. That extra oiling seems useful for sure.
Great video explaining the oiling of the Hemi! I have been running Red Line 5w30 in my 2013 Ram 1500 5.7 since it had 22000 miles. It has 69600 on it now and have never had a check engine light for the wrong viscosity. I initially started because I got a hot idle tick using Pennzoil Platinum. So far my hot idle tick has stayed away and it runs smooth as silk. MDS works perfectly running the 5w30 as well. I have several UOAs showing wear numbers decreased running a 5w30.
Nice! Thanks for the feedback about running the heavier weight oil. I'm going to start compiling more information like that to do a possible update video later on. Thanks for watching! 👍
I have had a 2004 hemi truck since new. The truck has 255,000 miles on it. Used 10-30 oil. No problems AT ALL. Now I purchased a 2020 hemi truck and 8,000 miles on it. The people who last changed my oil showed me that the engine claims it suppose to have 10-20. This is the second oil change and it was shown that they used 10-30 without instructing me of that. Now, I am confused. I will go back to the 10-20 next time. But, you have been instructive. Thanks.
Interesting idea you presented. I was told by people that race new Gen Hemis (1 guy worked for SRT for several yrs) that the fix on ALL 5.7s, and 6.1s that DO NOT have MDS, is to use the updated HellCat ( also used in 392s) lifter. They are stronger and have been redesigned where the roller does not fail. They say to continue to use a top quality synthetic oil, changed at about 4k. For those with MDS, there is no update at this time.
As a mechanic , I can say that not only can the internal lifter springs fatigue , but more obvious to me is the inability of the locking dogs to hold due to wear , such as rounding at the corners and a burring within the lifter groove or channel causing a sticking . Even GM has tried to master this for many yrs unsuccessfully with there AFM, DOD, and VLOM to control oil flows... Personally I think they should let an 8 cylinder be an 8... One other thing of importance that you didnt address was , changing the lifters to standard lifters , you"ll also need to reprogram the fuel management so it doesnt shut the injectors down. Great video, enjoy shop talk.
Good points. A couple items to consider: Did you notice that the connecting rods don't have traditional squirters to oil the opposite bore and reciprocating assembly? Maybe this also contributes to a loss of cam and lifter lube. Some of the engines have fixed block squirters, but not all of them; and those are just for the bores. The old way slings and squirts the oil in all directions. Also, you have to use the thin oil because the new engines are close bearing tolerance engines. Finally I noticed Jasper has videos where they are fixing the valve seat issue and other issues. I think the factory could make a few changes without re-tooling. Also, a video by MMX shows how defectively designed aftermarket lifters can dump the oil pressure as they move up and down. It's pretty interesting. Observations of an Engineer. Shalom
I've been a mechanic for over 30 years and I know every vehicle on the road has its issues. In the early 80s I worked for a Cadillac dealership and we had so many cars coming in with leaking intake gaskets that we had to add stop leak and send them to another dealership to be repaired. GM told us that they experiment with the cars that cost the most because fewer of them would be sold. Currently I own a 2011 jeep grand Cherokee 5.7 hemi and I love it! I have no doubt this engine will go 200,000 plus.
This failure scares the crap outta me. Running a 2012 300 c 5.7 with 145,000 on it. Thinking of repower with 5.7 or 6.4 from manual car with tune. Off topic had camshaft position sensor failure come up changed it and failed again. Instead of changing again I just replaced main cpu ordered online with all updates and it fixed problems. Great channel. I will pay close attention to you from now on.
As for the oil: I run 5w30 redline. I have no ticks and I have no CEL, though the main reason I choose to run 5w30 is because of the pcv design. Before switching to 5w30, I had to dump my catch can every 500-750 miles, after switching to 5w30 I'm at 2000 miles and the bottom of my catch can is filled. So like 1/8th of my catch can at the most. That alone was a huge benefit. Another thing i did while cleaning out my intake manifold was unplugging the solenoids for cylinder deactivation, that did throw a cel, but a tune got rid of that cel for me and it makes me more comfortable as I believe cylinder deactivation is the direct cause of the lifter problem in these hemis.
I have a 2003 RAM 3500 dually with a 5.7 with 310k with NO internal issues. Water pumps??? Yup, three of them plus one radiator. It has all of the original hoses and has been extremely reliable. It was my daily driver for 18 years and I decided to put it in my work fleet and bought a 2020 RAM 3500 SRW with the HO Cummins. I love my RAMs and feel bad for those of you having issues. Just my 2 cents. Cheers guys.
The engineers are designing new ways and new parts that have never been designed/thought of before when making new motors. So how are they supposed to know, 100% if it all works just fine, being a mechanic or not. It's new stuff.
The reality is manufactures contract atleast 1,000 engineers total in dozens of countries tasked to each design one small part of the vehicle’s system. In a perfect world engineers would get their hands dirty, but it’s just not feasible with mass produced vehicles.
From what I’m seeing is not enough oil to the lifters . You would think companies like Dodge and Ford have been around long enough to know how to build an engine better than this.
Interesting video. I’ve had my 03 hemi ram since new. I noticed a ticking just after a few thousand miles. The dealership shop said it was normal and it persisted until just after 200,000 miles. It now has 215,000 miles and it’s completely gone. It runs as good as ever and the ticking is gone. I have always used mobile1 full synthetic and a K&N oil filter from its first oil change till now. Always 5w-30 I don’t know how or why it went away, but it did. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣. 18 years down and I hope many more to come.
I just bought a 2013 5.7 with 230000 kms on it. Has some noise in top end but dash says 29 idle hrs. 5000 total hrs. For a few yrs now I’ve been cooking Borax in my oil. Seems to clean out carbon build up and turns back time on my engines. I’ll see how it works in this case. Thanks for your video..😊
The hemis with a manual transmission don’t have MDS the have the plug from the factory. Idle time has a lot to do with lifter failure also because the oil brakes down before the mileage is due for oil change.
I liked your comment that they are close to a redesign any way so they may address the lifter at that time. Your comment is from early 2021 and here we are now in early 2024 and the way the problem is being “addressed” is to replace the Hemi with the Hurricane 6 cylinder. I think you may be able to see the future! BTW, as an engineer, I (unlike some of the commenters) really appreciated your detailed, step-by-step explanation. Thanks.
I had the problem of the tick and I didn’t wait to fix it. I was surprised to see that the cam and the rolers were in good condition. My hypothesis is rather a problem of lifter and not lubrication, by unbloking the lifter, it is to use from the inside and by force to use it can no longer maintain the pressure of the lifter that results from the failure of the lifter. The people wait to much before fix ut, and that destroy the cam. Sorry if i have a poor english i’m french canadian 😁
Wow - Great hemi lifter video! I have had this conversation with an experienced Hemi tech still working at a dealer and he was NOT in the camp of there being a design flaw. He did confirm though that Hemi and LS engines that are fleet / service vehicles with excessive hours at idle will likely have MDS / DOD lifter issues and wiped cams. Most lifter jobs he did were on police pursuit Chargers or fleet pickups. So what about dummies like me who just tune out the MDS without replacing the lifters or blocking off the solenoids? Am I helping or hurting my engine? I tuned them out because the exhaust drone was horrible and I don’t drive my charger enough to worry about MPG (want my horses there full time)
I don't think you'll have any issues with it. Like you mentioned, most of the problems come from excessive idling. Usually chargers/challengers that are driven in a sporty fashion don't seem to have the same issues. Thanks for watching! 👍
I drive a 2008 jeep grand cherokee with the 5.7 hemi and i tuned off the MDS two months ago and have no issues yet, also i speak to a guy that did the same thing and no issues, it been three years sinces he tuned off the MDS
@@markleonard5604 I have the Diablo tuner, an unlocked PCM and a custom tune. No issues with MDS turned off for 3 years. If you start modding your car for power gains unlocking your PCM for 2017 and newer vehicles is required. Diablo Platinum EX has a setting to turn it off or you can get a custom tune to shut it off.
Yeah with the raised cam placement you wanna use the thinner viscosity oil, I think it's 5w20 recommend for 09- up, so that the oil will throw up to the cam. Thicker oil isn't gonna do it at lower or idle come
The hemi engine is somewhat finicky, - It doesn't want to be idled for long periods of time - Using the wrong oil viscosity/poor oil quality/ incorrect oil level - Driver abuse and neglect -Revving the heck out of it while cold. That being said, it's a pretty good engine and maintenance must be done on schedule no excuses. Also don't use sketchy aftermarket parts like you experienced with the "valve springs" lol. Cheers
@@Preinkd In a previous video not to long ago, he rebuilt an Chrysler 300 engine and sold it to a customer. It had one bad aftermarket valve spring which cracked into pieces. You guessed it, he had to replace them all with Mopar OEM ones.
my chrysler 07 has a slight hemi tick at 1000-1500 rpm i rev my car to 2000 rpm and it goes away saw a video saying that at 2k rpm it lubricates the cam better and so far its been working
Is yours an MDS ? My understanding was it was 09 when it came out. I have a 17 300 Hemi, and the Wife has an 09 Ram. The truck has had 2 camshafts in 90k. We recently switched to Amsoil, and the engines have never sounded better.
We use 5 w 30 as well on our 5.7 RT with MDS. I have never heard the MDS kick on until 3 months ago. Other than that she runs strong. We are planning on doing a cam shaft and lifter upgrade soon. Glad we found this dude because I am so ready to deactivate that MDS it's beyond annoying.
I need a syllabus for this excellent lecture on Hemi 5.7 lubrication, cylinder deactivation, lifters tech, and the number of other subjects you touched. How many credit hours do we receive? 🤔😁
I have 3 vehicles with 5.7 hemis. The 2015 Challenger has 40k miles has no hemi tick and runs great. I used 10-40 syn with a quart of lucas oil stabilizer on every 3-4 mile oil change. My 300 has 170 k miles with the same oil procedure. This one runs perfect and gets a solid 21 mpg and has zero hemi tick. My ram 1500 has 280 k miles. This is daily driver maintenance is pretty lack. I do not warm it up and the kicker is this thing has massive amount of idle time. I let it run in the summer all day long with A/C running and in winter it idles all day (8-10) hours. One winter win i had charging system issues i let it run for 4 days never shut it down between 10 mile trips to work. Out of this 96 hours the idle time was over 90 hours. This engine is still solid with zero hemi tick. The biggest question i have is between the ram and the 300. The 300 gets a solid 21mpg and the ram struggles to get 12 mpg. In addition i drive the ram way easier than the 300.
I've been running Penzoil Platinum synthetic 5w-20 in my 2018 Chrysler 300s 5.7 and I add 15oz LubeGard "Bio/Tech" (blue bottle). I hope that this will fortify the oil and protect the lifters, especially when in 8cyl mode and on cold starts.
Awesome video! I always wondered how they actually deactivate a moving piston! Looking at what all you explained, you can definitely see how viscosity would play a roll in such a complex valvetrain.
Hello Sky, New subscriber here, Love your videos! I found your channel while trying to do some diagnostic research. I have an '06 Magnum RT AWD with the 5.7. She has 130K on her and until last week has been whisper quiet as far as engine noise. I do 90% of the repair work on the car but have used JL to do almost 100% of the oil changes. Last month I replaced the original alternator and the oil pressure switch which had given me a P0520 code. I also had a failing cat, and the exhaust from the cats back was also original. I had my local mechanic replace the exhaust and change the oil. A few hundred miles later I wake up to a low oil pressure light. The EVIC showed no pressure. I checked the oil and the level was fine. restarted the car and light was off pressure increased with the rpm's. I drove my son to the train station (10min) trip. on my way home the low pressure light would come on at idle. No noise, no performance issues. I drove her home and parked her. the next morning I got up and went to check on the light. again it was on , but this time it didn't go off with increased rpms. I let the motor idle while I tried to think what the hell could the problem be, bad switch? Shit that's a PITA to get to. While I was thinking the top started to clatter, I shut her down and thought, OK, she's not getting oil.....WTF? any idea what I should be looking at? I know i specified 5w20 to my mech, could it be that JL has been using a heavier weight? coincidence that the oil pump just up and failed? any insight or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.... I just tossed 4K into the exhaust, alternator and switch repairs and would hate to loose it. Thanks !
If it's clattering up top it's likely that the oil pressure sensor is reading properly. But it's always good to double check. If you have access to an oil pressure gauge you can hook it up where the stock sensor screws into the block and verify the oil pressure. If it is low, the next easiest thing to check is to remove the engine oil pan and take the pickup tube off to inspect the o-ring. If the o-ring is OK then unfortunately at that point it's probably time for an engine. It's not common for these engines to have super low oil pressure like that so I hope it's something more simple than that.
@@ReignitedAuto Thanks for the reply....since dropping the pan is a PITA on the AWD magnum, I opted to pull the timing cover, that's where I found the problem. the tensioner failed and the plate cracked and was riding on the crank gear... metal shavings caused the relief valve in the pump to stay open. there was a shard of that metal in the pan and very little else. The oil filter seemed to have caught the majority of any metal. hopefully preventing it from getting too far into the engine. I'm hoping to flush with kerosene install new TC assembly, Melling HV oil pump and a new water pump. I can't seem to find links for the "o" ring gaskets for the metal heater tubes (where they enter the water pump) any sources or links for those? and any other caveats you could think of would be greatly appreciated. also a link to the reignited merch.... need a hoodie and some stickers for the magnum (once shes running) Thanks! Peace, Ant
I do have to say that this is just based off of my own experiences as a dealership tech, these are not official numbers at all. But from what I can tell it's fairly accurate. Thanks for watching! 👍
@@ReignitedAuto well mines been sitting since 2012 due to the MDS issue... and i cant afford to buy the new lifters and cam to fix the problem so my 05 only had a few years of use before everything went to s#!t on it and burned out 2 lifters and messed up the cam... Chrysler refused to fix the issue before it got that bad and now that it went to that point they refused to touch it and im stuck with one of the last units manufactured by the Daimler Chrysler corp. before they went separate ways. a big reason why i will never buy a dodge or chrysler ever again
@@PENDULUMAAOD1 There's a pretty interesting story about Daimler exiting from Chrysler. Now with Fiat in charge its meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Part of the reason why I no longer work for them.
@@PENDULUMAAOD1 HMMM, my 04 Dodge 1500 I bought new, still running like new 200k miles. The best truck I have ever owned, and yes I have driven many brands, started driving mid 60's
@@ReignitedAuto Dang, you worked for Chisler as a tech ? I'm sorry for your loss, of time, $, and life.Of all dealer techs, word is they get hosed the most . Ball joint warranty job for .5 ? No thanks. At least you have skills to make $ off em now. Question: how do you remove d/s ex manifold from jeep grand Cherokee hemi ?
Very nicely done video, love the disassembled pics. There is a few problems with your line of reasoning toward the end of the video. First off there is full pump pressure to the lifter body at all times on engines with those plastic plugs and if you worked at a dodge dealer for ten years you have seen plenty of cars with manual trans and 3/4 or 1 ton trucks that had lifter failures with those plastic plugs, basically just like you said millions of miles of testing and it has resulted in the lifters still failing. This works just like you said about activating the MDS solenoids for full oil flow. This is not an MDS problem. 08 and older engines had MDS with no lifter problems. All of the failed lifters I have seen have tiny needle bearings in the roller, they are so small you can barely see them inside the wheel, the set in your picture has this style, somewhere along the line they switched to a larger needle bearing in the roller and the failures almost if not totally quit. The dealer I buy all my lifters from showed me this and I looked through my scrap bin and he was right, all the failed lifters were ones with the small needle bearings. The new lifters they sell (my dealer calls them hellcat lifters) have a larger needle bearing you can easily see inside the roller tip, I have never seen a failure of this larger needle bearing lifter. I also saw the video of the guy blaming the failures on the raised cam, that is not the issue either, it was not an issue from 03-08 so it would not be the issue on later ones wither. Next time you buy a set of lifters from the dodge dealer look at the size of those needle bearings, the bigger needles will roll over microscopic particles better than a smaller wheel kind of like how your floor jack gets stuck on a pebble but a car tire won't, also being more open and exposed to oil will get more lube in to keep it rolling.
Hey David appreciate your reply and your insight! You're right about the plugs allowing full oil pressure, didn't realize that until after I posted the video. As far as the problem being resolved after they updated the lifter roller bearings, I don't feel like that's the case, as I've done multiple lifter failures on 2016, 2017 and 2018 vehicles. At this point, I'm more inclined to believe the issue lies with a failure of the cam lobe hardened surface, which then causes the lifter roller to fail. Totally agree that the issue is not due to where the lifters are placed in the engine though. I do have a picture showing the older style lifters with the smaller rollers right next to the larger style newer ones on a community post I made awhile back. Again, appreciate you watching and chiming in! 👍
Great video sir. MOST videos don't go into depth on HOW a system works. You have and that's super valuable. I have a Hemi on a RAM 1500 and #7 is deactivated. I'm trying to figure out what's causing this. The system keeps burning up the coil on #7 and the time it takes keeps getting shorter and shorter. I'm also getting an overvoltage code. I'm trying to figure out what sends the voltage to the coil to see if that part has failed, etc. This most important fact about all "engine stuff" was left out. That is that the US government and the EPA work endlessly to make sure Americans have the most INEFFICIENT engines the world has ever seen. They devise mechanical systems like the one in this video to give consumers the illusion that they will get better fuel economy, when in fact the system doesn't even need to exist. We have had the technology for DECADES to make an engine equal size to this Hemi get 100 mph no problem. But, they like our money... and nothing else.
It's a very interesting I've always wondered if the spring s in the lifters are losing there streanth over time causing the lifters to slap against the cam is love to see some one your idea
They are pretty strong springs actually, I was surprised. I had to remove all but one to show visually the action. I suspect the three together would be very hard to lose their tension. Thanks for watching! 👍
Yeah the hole thing weird people have gotten hundreds of thousands of miles on them with no problems and a failure rate of 4 percent maybe a bad batch of lifters or cams?
Exactly! This sounds like it could at least be A FACTOR I've been looking at the cam lobe marks on cams taken out of 5.7 cam/lifter failures. it's on the backside of the lobe (decel side). Lobe bumps up to open the valve, passes apex of lobe, spring slack/ valve float not keeping the lifter down on the cam and it's slamming back into the cam, binding the roller and causing repeated chatter. Degrading the lifter, then subsequent degradation of the cam. The engine noise/chatter might even be mistaken for lifter failure, depending on how loud it is.
Ok I had my cam and lifters replaced about 4 months back. A personal friend of mine that is the director of service for 4 dodge dealerships in California told me this. We on the average have two or 3 of these repairs ongoing in each and every dealership. Sounds a lot more common than 5% of them.
On every video that has to do with the Dodge Chrysler product or hemi engine, there’s a Ford guy. This is that guy paid by Ford to draw attention from Ford being the most recalled vehicle on the planet this guy does not own a dodge pro where he had the cam and lifter replaced. He’s a liar.
@@davidmckinley7468on the ones we serviced from new, we ran 15w50 full synth Esther based oil with zinc and haven't had a fail yet. Way too much load on three pissy needles at a time with sewing machine oil viscosity. And to top it off, the cars that were rebuilt after the cam lifter mods tragedy we're done non mods and we're more economical. It wasn't about economy, it was Nox level reduction during certification.
@@AmericanSurvival001funny that, we haven't seen a lifter cam fail in a coyote from cylinder deactivation, but sure done a few Chevy AFM and Chrysler mds engines.
thank You so much for your knowledge on the MDS system. I had owned a 2007 RAM hemi and a 2018 eco-diesel. Loved them both but did not trust the eco-diesel so I sold it when it had 50k miles on it. I wish I would have known about the MDS system before I took on my 2012 RAM 1500 5.7 hemi project. Bought it from a bank repo and knew nothing about the history of the truck. It was not well taken care off. It had the hemi tick. Ran very badly. Watched many videos. I tore into it and found four lobes on the camshaft worn down damaged, one ground down so much there appeared to be no lobe. Lifters also very worn and damaged. I wanted to do the MDS delete but did not know how plus an added expense to have the PCM software changed. I was told the dealer would not even do the delete and it had to be aftermarket like Diablo. Wish now that I did it. After putting in a new camshaft, lifters, and MDS solenoids, new timing chain kit and an upgraded oil pump like you recommended, and a couple sensors and 4 new O2 sensors and a few minor non engine things, I thought I was doing pretty good. It started it and it sounded great. But I still had an O2 sensor code, a new MAP sensor code and the dreaded flashing red throttle light and a check engine light and it was in limp mode about now I was going bonkers and being a fair DYI mechanic, decided that I was going to beat this beast. Figured out the O2 issue (electrical connector and it was very difficult to reach it B1S1) and the MAP was also an electrical connector issue. So I start it up O2 sensors all read good. Now a new code popped up. Misfire in #4 cylinder. Oh crap. Took off the valve cover. Number four Intake valve was not moving at all, but the exhaust valve was working. By now I am cursing the MDS system. No way this could happen. Did not think it was the MDS solenoid because the exhaust valve was working properly. reluctantly, took off the head and verified the lifter was stuck in MDS mode. I am thinking cheap chinese parts but I used good OEM parts. I could stick a probe in the oil hole and push the little pins in and it would lock into the normal mode, however, I did not trust putting it back in the engine. I bought the front four lifter set. It has been too cold to put it back together. So this is where I am at. What a nightmare. I thought about what you said... to do the delete lifters and plugs and just run it like that. The thought crossed my mind that the PCM might want to throw out more DTC codes because at some point it is expecting to go into MDS mode. Any how. I asked GOOGLE AI if the upgraded oil pump could have possibly provided enough oil psi where it could have activated the Lifter??? It responded "unlikely" because the MDS solenoid would have to be activated to allow enough oil pressure to do that. I still question that it might happen. But at any rate, it would not go back into normal mode so I just relaced it. Have not finished it yet and will wait a bit for warner temps. Sorry for the long story but I thought you would appreciate this hemi sob story.
You literally addressed the comments from the former video!! That's awesome, I feel like you directly made this video in reply to my long winded comment as I'm sure others do as well , you have a great personality to pull that off my friend , thanks for the video il be looking forward to more from this channel.
Thanks man I appreciate that! Honestly the feedback from viewers has been really enjoyable, lots more actual discussion than I expected. Thank you again for watching! 👍
@@ReignitedAuto I have to say I'm impressed with your analysis here, in my former comment I stated the issues I have dealt with were from construction trucks that idle ALOT and I as well mental pictured the high cam and wide lifters with the drains located as they are as being a big ticket problem but your idea really takes it that much further with the MDS explanation....great detective work to all😉 I see this channel bring forth a great deal of good information in the future with folks consolidating experience and ideas.
Something I've tested in my own world as a fleet mechanic where these Hemi's have a lot of idle time is using an engine oil with a higher HTHS rating. HTHS is High Temperature High Shear rating. The Lifters aren't shearing the oil but what an oil with a High Temperature High Shear also offer highly loaded components additional wear protection in areas like needle bearings, and in lifters when under load. A lot of oil companies will not share this data with you and some will. I've had to send oils to the labs to figure out which have it. What I've found is a Group III synthetic engine oil usually has higher than minimum HTHS values as do most diesel engine oils. An easily available oil that won't break the bank is Amsoil's XL series (one step down from their top of the line oil). It has a higher HTHS rating because of its Group III oil base. In engines that we have used this and that see extended idling where this seems to be the biggest problem, we don't see repeat failures. It also helps in their PentaStar engines where they keep revising the Cam followers for needle bearing failure. Even on GEN 1 PentaStars from 2011/2012 they survive again with using a higher HTHS engine oil. In my Caravan I use 5w30 Amsoil XL Series because the HTHS is 3.3 and I have almost 0 wear showing up on my oil analysis reports. When my father in-law runs Pennzoil (the recommended oil) it has higher wear numbers. So... Your results may vary but in our fleet of HEMI and PentaStar engines we have ultra low wear numbers on our oil analysis reports. Try it! And no I'm not a dealer for Amsoil, and no I have no affiliation with them or want to push their products. They just publish their HTHS values for their oils and using their oils for decades I've seen none of the failures that are common with engines on the road and I think it's the HTHS playing a crucial role.
Nice explanation! I'm an old, out of practice A&P mech and this system is definitely genius! I also believe the problem lies in your lack of lubrication theory. I hope someone will test this out further or at least compile a ratio of mds to non-mds lifter/cam damage to compare. Thanks for the video! 👍
Don't both the MDS in the solid lifter get the same lubrication in MDS because the pins deadhead in and they have the same pressure as the non MDS one so they would be getting oil pressure the same
If not that lack of oil, what else would cause the excessive wear on the mds roller bearings and the mds cam lobes only? Perhaps it's a simple as the mds lifter being allowed to collapse and not function as a solid, sliding lifter throwing oil around? Or maybe my thinking is off. Wouldn't be the first time...
I like to use 0-20 in the winter here in Canada and my mechanic tells me I am nuts. I don't see why I would use the same oil viscosity that folks in Arizona would use.
I will try 10W40... No issue meaning no lifter tick and unusual noises? I was thinking 5W50 but I would like to stick on 40 itself. I live on warm tropical weather
It's way more than 5% failure rate on these lifters and cams. It may be 5% during the warranty period but it is way high just after the warranty period. When mine went out on my 2014 Ram you couldn't even get lifters for it from anyone including Dodge and they hac over 20K backorders and could not give you and estimated time for new ones to arrive. That is a major failure rate.
Man I've tried to explain that recall thing to sooooooo many people. From dealership experience tsb's are your best friend. I worked for Chevy for 6yrs and you learn alot about the sideways stuff that happens in the manufacturer world!
@@floridajames04 you don’t know anything about oil do you? 0w20 oil is thicker at operating temp then at room temp as all multi viscosity oils are. Soooo, at start up when your engine oil has drained out of the block heads lifter etc 0 weight oil runs through the system faster…. Why do you think the hellcat engine is 0w40?……hint it isn’t fuel economy……
@Josh Krause you're not a bright one are you? The Hemi Ram engine isn't the same as a hellcat, nor does it use the same engine. Hahahaha you're gonna cook your engine before long using the incorrect oil. 120K miles isn't even alot on a truck.
I have a 2019 Ram 2500 Power Wagon 6.4 and it’s starting to make tapping noises at idle. After watching this I think if I could do something I would drill through all of the lifter passages like adding a MDS oil port to each lifter. Get a tune and turn on MDS at only idle. Then you ensure your get oil at low RPM to all lifters and drip it down to the camps and roller. Since I did notice after driving and coming to a stop the noise is gone. So the theory of lubrications while driving maybe true but at idle it lacks oil. Anyways thanks for the info I will keep following my problem and probably take it to the dealer once I prove the issue is repeatable. I hope I don’t need an engine replacement at 15 k miles !
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Please watch my NEWEST video to get the very latest info on this issue!
ruclips.net/video/1gpEwkTVCmE/видео.htmlsi=Zh-s2MnZE5fdGmmM
Love your videos man!! I have a 2014 grand cherokee with 5.7, what's your opinion on the idea that running a thicker oil (instead of the 5w-20) will help prevent the lifter failure tick?
Great teaching, I'm learning things about my new Ram truck
Engine
You've got quite a few excellent observations, and as a powertrain engineer that daily drives a high mileage Hemi ('08 300 6.1L with 110k), I've been looking into prolonging its life. As some people have stated, vehicles with VVT and lots of idle hours (police Chargers, fleet Rams, etc) are the most commonly afflicted with lifter problems, but no Hemi is immune. Looking at the factory PCM tunes for the common Hemis, they tend to target a 500-550 RPM hot idle speed with 5W-20 oil. This is done to ensure the lowest emissions in these bread-and-butter engines. Meanwhile in non-MDS Hemis, they target a 700-725 RPM idle and mandate a 0W-40 Synthetic oil, and SRT engineers put out a TSB saying 15W-50 Synthetic was okay in warmer climates (TSB 09-011-06). As you can imagine, low emissions are not as much of a priority for these low production SRT and manual trans vehicles, so the engineers can recommend what the engine actually needs.
So if you wanted to improve longevity, I'd start with the easiest thing: tuning in a higher idle speed for more oil pressure, and using thicker synthetic oil. And for more in-depth hardware changes, ditching the solenoids like you said and possibly switching to the high-volume SRT or even Melling oil pumps.
I'm not sure if it's wise to use non-MDS lifters on an MDS cam. Typically, a deactivating lifter collapses faster/further than a non-deactivating lifter. To compensate for this, a deac cam lobe will have an additional 4-7° duration at 0.050" tappet lift, sometimes 60° or more additional duration at 0.006" tappet lift, and an additional 0.25 mm of valve lift. I'd imagine using the same style lifters on all cylinders with an MDS cam would put the engine out of balance with half the cylinders making more power than the other half. But it may not be a big deal.
Sorry to put an essay in your youtube video lol
Wow, fantastic info on this one, hope you don't mind I'm going to pin this comment 👍
@@ReignitedAuto Absolutely, go right ahead. The idle speeds I posted are sourced from factory stock PCM calibrations read with HP Tuners, and the MDS camshaft numbers are based on GM Gen III - V small blocks with DoD. I haven't seen any cam doctor results from Hemi cams, but I'd be surprised if they're super different.
Fun fact about GM's cylinder deac: every version of it turns off cylinders 1, 4, 6, & 7 except the new Corvette's LT2. The LT2 deactivates cylinders 2, 3, 5, & 8. Makes you wonder if there's some NVH from DoD that changes when the engine moves from in front of the cabin to behind.
@@mikezobl9602 I love weird stuff like that, appreciate the info 👍
I have the 6.4 in my 16 power wagon. At idle 550rpm my oil pressure is over 40psi hot. And it doesn’tt vary much. It goes up to 55psi at high rpm. I use the Penzoil 0-40 synthetic. So pressure isn’t an issue and at $9 a quart it better protect
What happens if instead of ditching the solenoids, you deactivate the solenoids by limiting the gear shift to the 7th gear instead of lettung it go all the way to the 8th? Any negative effect on the engine itself or the transmission?
I have my 05 ram hemi with almost 400,000 miles for 16 years and it's still running strong! Only things replaced have been water pump and fuel pump. Love my hemi!
Those first gen 3 Hemis were pretty good!
214,000 on my '06 in my WK. Great engine, just thirsty!
What oil you using?
what oil you you using*
My 2012 lifters destroyed the shaft. 8,100 dollars for the new engine
I have a 2012 Ram 1500, 5.7l hemi; I'm on my third engine due to lifter failure. The fail rate of 5% for those lifters I feel like is recorded within the 100,000 mile warranty period. I think its much higher between 100k and 200k. If that weren't true this video wouldn't have 100s of thousands of views and 2500 comments. I have no idea if this helps your theory but I will offer this information on my situation-
Engine 1- I bought the truck used with 111k miles, how it was treated prior I have no clue.( In my possession I take good care and maintain the vehicle as it should be, 3500-5000 miles between oil changes keep a good eye on all fluids and temperatures frequently etc..) at 148k the roller lifter "shell/wheel" broke and the needle bearings escaped to the oil pan. The noise was something between a lifter tap and a rod knock. Little louder than a tap not quite a knock, very apparent mechanical contact. The specific lifter was a non-mds type (no holes) it was the very first one from the front of the engine on the passenger side.
Engine 2- came out of a totaled/salvage 2015 ram 1500 with 54k on the dash. The non mds type lifer on the driver side , 4th from the front failed when my odometer was at 266,500 (266,500-148,000=118,500 I put on it + the 54k it had already= 172,500 total miles on the engine) the noise was the same in this instance, but when examined the shell/wheel hadn't broke or released any needle bearings but instead kind of crammed down into itself and jammed up.
In both instances I did not get a misfire, I pulled them both out and tore them apart to find a badly gouged cam lobe though. The first one I gave in for a core fee refund. on the most recent one I learned my lesson and am rebuilding #2 for the inevitable failure of #3 ( pulled from a 2013 with 115k miles on it already) . Here's the thing, an American V8 Truck engine should last until 300k if maintained properly, that's not a question. they did it in the past, I had an 01 silverado 4.8l 5 speed that I dogged the $h!+ out of for years it was my first truck and I raced it at every light and was known to pull thousands of pounds more than it was rated for on a regular basis (so heavy the problem was stopping ) I parted that thing out at 350k with the original engine and transmission STILL working in it not an issue in the world with it ( I didn't have the title and needed to get rid of it for a back seat after my daughter arrived) people calling for a recall is ignorance because it's not a safety issue but it is flat out despicable and complete horse $h!+
2012 5.7 Big Horn 4x4 with 205k miles. I've replaced 2 batteries, starter & windshield washer pump. Great trucks if you maintain & don't beat on them....
Same here. My 2015 started ticking at 20K miles and was getting worse when i sold it. 5% fail but 100% start ticking and get sold before failure which is unacceptable!
THANK YOU! You are the FIRST person I've come across who ACTUALLY explains HOW mds FUNCTIONS. Most explanations just say, "Oh, 4 cylinders are deactivated by the computer using solenoids." That doesn't tell me squat! I want(ed) to know HOW the cylinders are shut off (mechanically) and you showed me that. Kudos to you sir, thank you so much!
I appreciate you watching! 👍
My guy here just spitting out business decision facts that nobody wants to hear ha. Most people that complain about the lifter issue (the 5% of you) all think they are so super special and because they are complaining about, Chrysler should then spend tens of millions of dollars to fix it for that 5% lmao
@@nexpro6118 honestly feel like if people didnt baby their trucks/cars keeping it under 3000 rpm, they wouldn't have problems LMAOO
@@DylanPorto45 lol.
Can I get rid of the MDS system on my 08 charger 5.7? I have a po300 code . everything is working new plugs coil injectors O2 sensors.i don't think it's the cam .I'm thinking computer or fuel pump ?
Hi. I thank you for your time in researching this potential issue! We have a 2006 300c SRT-8. The 6.1 has almost 130.000 miles on it!. At 67,000 miles, we had a oil pump failure! It always have mobile 1. 0-40w in it. We Put a melling pump 10432 select. With stock pressure rated spring in it. Up to the pump starting to fail. This 6.1 was a little noisy on cold start from day one, for my taste. Being a Dodge Cummins fantastic. That started in 1990.
I changed from the mobile1 0-w40, To Rotella T-6 0-40w.WOW!
No!! Lifter tick! And no main bearing knock or gargel is what we call it here in TEXAS, don't let your local part store tell you that Rotella T-6 is not made in 0-40w! Put a vacuum oil canister on your gen3 or gen4 HEMI too. I was shocked how much oil was in it after one thousand miles! There was 5-6 oz's in it. Reminder! If you're Hemi has piston oil squirters! Check your vacuum oil canister about every 500. Miles or so. I know people are going to say, That's a Diesel oil!! All the chemicals or additives that are needed for flat tappet Cam in a Cummins to live. And only need adjusted every 100,000-150,000 miles!! By the way. My daily drivers is a 2004.5 DODGE 3/4 4x4. A 5.9 Cummins triple compound Bullseye 366/71mm turbocharged, twin Cp3 12mm pumps.For a very short list. Runs 10.20's @ 132.59. And the Rotella T-6 0-40w. Is all this truck has ever seen! O Yeah? Just over 210,200 MILES ON IT!! Still no blow by !! Knock on wood !!
ALSO THANK YOU FOR NOT USING FOUL LANGUAGE!! Real men are gentlemen and puts the LORD first in our life's! Then our Family! And 3 is supposed to be our jobs! ? Or is it our love of our hotrod? GEAR HEAD FOR LIFE. AND A HEMI, no matter what generation it is! #1
Thanks for the feedback Randy!
@@ReignitedAuto diesel oil though? Whats your take?
Interesting
You are a Wise man putting the Lord first in all things. God bless you.
Hi, I have been a FCA mechanic and shop foreman for 26 years , seen and done DOZENS of lifter/cam repairs ....your video is very informative . I currently have a 2013 ram with msd with no issues at 170000 k. I also have a 5.7l with stand alone fuel injection in a 1946 international truck , with the mds disabled and holes plugged . I would like to add my 2 cents worth.... out of the DOZENS of cam /lifters i have done , probably at least 90 % were on left bank cyl 1,3,5,7. ????? of course there were some on right side , very few . in fact just today I picked up a core 6.4L (292 ) BGE out of a 3500 that I am going to build for my International, and it also have # 7 cyl cam issue. Thanks Eric
Appreciate you chiming in Eric, always nice to hear from another Chrysler tech! Also, I just put out a brand new video yesterday on a new potential solution, check it out if you've got the time! 👍
What oil do you use? I use 5W-30 Full synthetic Mobil 1. I have 255 idle hours and 64,000 miles on it. I have a manifold tick but unsure of what the correct fix would be. Grade 8 bolts, new manifold?
Excellent explanation, without yelling or bragging how much more you know than the other guy. Love this kind of content. Subbed.
Thanks man I appreciate that, hope I can continue to deliver for you! 👍
@@ReignitedAuto hi I was wondering I posted up a video on my channel I don’t know if it’s a bad lifter or exhaust manifold bolt that broke can you check out the video and let me know thank you
@@ReignitedAuto
So with block off plate instead, which bores will be pressured? I'm guessing only once with mds? Is there oil passeges for non mds liftes too?
@@nikoz4841 the oil passages go to each pair of cylinders, so one with MDS and one without. 👍
@@ReignitedAuto
I'm assuming solinoids are not on / off type, it's more like slow flow for lubrication wnen mds not active and high flow when mds activated. If you look at Honda's vtec system, it passes some oil for lubrication when vtec isn't active and opens fill oil flow to activate vtec pins. Thanks for your response
As a FCA parts manager, and former tech this is an exemplary explanation of the lifter management system. He is absolutely correct about idle management. It seems key to livelihood of the lifters. The only commentary I may add if that the roller bearings in the lifters them selves seem to be the weak point if any. Usually that is due to poor maintenance. General Motors has the same issue. Oil changes and quality of of oil can prolong the the use of the engine significantly.
Thanks for the feedback Carl! 👍
Agreed. Using the best possible oil from the start is your best insurance policy. Amsoil Signature Series 5w20 in my 2020 Ram 1500 Classic 5.7 from mile 0. Oil is cheap, engine repairs are expensive
Police departments have big issues with the lifters because they idle so much. Out of a 12 hour shift, the patrol unit is prolly running/idling for around 7 hours at least and for a K-9 patrol unit, per policy, the patrol unit must stay running for the entire shift because of the dog. So it's running/idling for 10 to 12 hours a day, at least 4 days a week for at minimum 5 years. Lol so yeah, lifter issues ha. 7k idle hour
@@Fitness195 ANY API certified 5W-20 oil will do any regular 5.7 just fine. Too much misguided belief that all forms of boutique oil will outperform all the rest. If it helps you sleep at night........
@@joeblowe7545 but the manual on the 2015+ 5.7 hemi chargers says that the oil must meet their standard and listed a specific code.
My car does this to save fuel, I find this fascinating, great video... A big fan!!!
When that system shuts down and turns back on I really don't notice a power change going over grades on the roads on the highway...
I am a over three year mechanic professionally, walked away and became a truck driver. Bought a 2020 Ford truck, had no problems with this 3.3 V6 so far. Then bought my 2014 Dodge Challenger 5.7 Hemi from a dealer used of course, first thing I had to fix was a $1600 upgrade for new stock alternator, reworked for power wire off alternator and a new battery from a Dodge dealer. Now it works fine. But after buying from a dealership that wasn't a Dodge dealer I was very discouraged. But I love my car. Also the coolant tank was really low, and I was very concerned, but after filling it I haven't had any problems so far!!!
Dude I’m a beginner in the mechanic world ive been doing it about 2 yrs and I love watching your videos man so honest and informative instead of just hating or loving certain things. Really can learn some stuff from ppl like you man it’s so cool.
Really appreciate the kind comments Tyler thank you 👊
I have a 2003 5.7 in TX that I bought used around 98k. They changed the lifter kits and springs as they where broken and gas Mileage sucked. But the thing is a beast now. I wasn’t mechanically inclined then, but this is the most informative video I have found. Bravo señor, look forward for more videos.
Appreciate you watching!
When I mean the way you take your time to explain things detailed are amazing!!! I love my 2018 RT Hemi… my uncle is a old war vet and he talks about when the Hemi came out and he knows the 5.7 & 6.4 like the back of his hand… he spoke about the lifters but to be honest it’s the driver as well…if you got a heavy foot make sure u got a heavy wallet to pay for repairs…much appreciated for all your videos I feel like a certified mechanic and I do body work! It’s all about the way a person teaching another person to help them gain knowledge…very detailed and very easy to follow along…never thought the Hemi was this easy to work on!!!
Appreciate you watching Carlos 👍
the heavy foot brings up revs and lubricates properly, low revs is the problem. 5.7 hemi engines stand up very well to being driven hard, in my 170,000km driving 2 of them the only costly things so far are the octane and rubber that it burns and I have a very heavy foot in my rt challenger($1500 full set of rubber burned since spring I need new tires after 8,000km), also has a manual transmission and no MDS so the stick is the way to go yet again
Hey guys, I wanted to clarify something because I've gotten a lot of comments about this: I don't think I was clear enough in the video, but I don't believe that the lifter bores don't get ANY oil when the MDS isn't activated, rather I meant that when the MDS solenoids are activated the lifter bores receive PRESSURIZED oil flow. Hope that clears things up! Appreciate all the feedback guys, keep it coming 👍
My belief is these people are making a mistake with there motor... don’t pull the dip stick & check the oil before you park ... check your oil before you start your car .... make sure you use a quality filter designed for your motor... “so I use dealer filters “ also to stop ✋ a dry start make shore the system is closed when pouring the old in the crankcase.... fill the crankcase with a study flow when you’re filling ... also guy’s it would help to fill the oil filter with oil before u put the filter on .... love your videos 😎😎😎😎
Love the way you explain MDS .....😎😎😎😎
Awesome video...... 👍👍👍....
@@leonardsmith8475 I always filled the new filter with oil, but when doing my first oil change in my 2020 ram hemi I noticed the new filter (puralator boss) says not to prime it with oil. Checked the old mopar filter and it also doesn't say anything about priming it with oil so I didn't do it.
The 5.7 is ment to be rebuilt
Uncle tony made me aware of the cam/lifter issues and when you gave subtle nod to him i gave a smirk. Respect to you sir
Thanks for watching! 👍
I hear Uncle Tony has been invited to join the engineering team at Fiat/Chrysler....psst, I heard it from Santa
Uncle Tony has been at this game a lot long than most people posting here have been alive. I trust what he has to say on this issue.
i recently got a ram 1500 5.7 and now I'm watching all of your videos. it has 52k on it, but I plan to keep that truck for a very LONG time. I really appreciate all of the knowledge you're willing to share with us. Thank you!
Thank you for watching I appreciate it! Check out my latest video on this issue, it's the link in the pinned comment at the top.
Just want to share my experience of owning a 5.7 hemi. I own a 2013 Ram 1500 with 101k miles - bought it new. 4,400 engine hours with 23% idling. Average oil change interval is 6,680 miles. Conventional 5w-20 for first 76k miles with OEM oil filter. Full synthetic high mileage oil since. Have not had any problems with cams or lifters (fingers crossed). However, I did have the dealer replace broken exhaust manifold bolts at 64k miles, and taking it to the local muffler shop tomorrow to replace the OEM manifold with new shorty headers (broken rear bolts again!).
I have same truck and near same k/m and exact same problems were the manifold bolts nothing else so far.
I've owned a 1998 Ram Hemi, 2005 Ram Hemi and a 2008 Ram Hemi and never had issues with ANY parts from the hemi. Now, with that said, most mileage on the 3 was the 1998 when I traded it for the 2nd one, had 98k miles on it when I traded it. 2nd Ram which i got brand new, I put 55k miles on it and the 3rd Ram which I also got brand new, I put 60k miles on it lol never had transmission issues either with any of them
@@nexpro6118hemi wasn't in a 1998 ram
@@Jd0gIsMe my 98 had the 5.9L. HEMI came back out in, 2003. My other RAM trucks all had the HEMI. It's only a, 1800 dollar add when buying new. That's only about an extra, 25 to 30 bucks a month in payment with above average credit. With bad credit, its like another, 76 bucks a month ha.
My truck has that current issue. May I ask how much that repair cost you? I want to get mine fixed but am worried about the price range
Love this explanation. First time Ram owner but lifelong car enthusiast. So I obviously research the crap out of things like this. What I couldn't wrap my head around is the only 5% failure. Mostly due to me following a ton of fb pages for the 4th gen Ram, and it seemed like every other member has had a lifter failure. So it seems like 5% is pretty low compared to what I see just on fb enthusiasts pages, where we generally overmaintain our vehicles.
But if your theory is correct, this would make sense . I would say that 80-90% of members turn off the mds manually with the gear selector, myself included because we hate the sound and are under the assumption that it doesn't harm, or helps with the lifter issue. So this whole time, while trying to prevent the issue, we have been doing the opposite and starving the lifter. This would actually make a lot of sense
So actually it’s worse to use the gear selector?
Hmmm ? Failure rate of 5% ? I say due to people I know the failure rate is much higher ! Most failures happen at 110,000 miles and above. One fellow I know had his cam fail at 40,000 miles on his Scat Pack !
I would really be curious to know how many owners continue to properly maintain their vehicles after the warranty expires. Newer vehicles are plagued by problems related to poor maintenance. Theses newer vehicles especially rely on a minimum oil pressure or they self destruct; meaning as they age oil changes become much more important. These 5.7 l msd engines must run on synthetic oil with a maximum of 5000 miles between oil changes Chrysler says maximum of 10,000 which I would not trust (the change oil light will usually come on much sooner than that).
5% failure rate is probably only under warranty period. These lifter cam failures are extremely high just over 100k miles. Engines today with synthetic oil, fuel injection, computerized engine monitoring and regulating should get a minimum of 300k miles before catastrophic engine failure occurs. The 5.7 hemi engine will not do that and I know because I am about to have my second lifter/camshaft failure on my 2014 Ram 1500 5.7 hemi engine with 255K miles. First failure was at 154K and you couldn't get lifters because they had backorders of more than 20,000 sets. That's when you know there is a problem. I believe it is an oiling problem as well as a camshaft and lifter specification problem.
I’ll estimate maybe 10% of HEMI owners are “enthusiasts” enough to regular FB communities, with no data other than the people I’ve encountered over the years. So if half of them have lifter issues then the 5% is pretty accurate. Also, it’s estimated only half of vehicles produced are still on the road beyond 120k miles, so there is that variable as well.
I have a 5.7 HEMI in my 2013 Durango. Almost 250,000 miles on it. It's had a full synthetic, OE viscosity, oil change every 5K miles for its entire life. Still runs strong.
2:25 its not less than 5% its more than 20% percentage just randomly that i gave but we have the issue even in middle east specifically in oman every owner had the saam issue
same and they got more than 5% arround the world
I had a 2014 Ram that developed a lifter tick around 101,000 miles. I was shocked because I changed oil every 5000 miles with Mobil 1 synthetic oil & filter. As soon as I heard the ticking, I changed my oil and put 1 qt of Marvelous Mystery oil, I was thinking it must be gum or tarnish causing the lifter tick, then I started researching the tick online and that's when I found out it is a common problem and when I saw the fix of standard lifters and removing the solenoids I figured that the redirection of oil supply must be the problem. FYI- The MMO treatment did seam to clear my ticking problem over a short period. Long story short, I cut bait, traded that truck in for a newer truck ( Not Dodge either!) I suspect if you eliminated the MDS soon enough it may prevent a costly repair. Just my 2 cents.
There is another video of a mechanic that says that the lifter failure is not related to long oil change intervals. He has seen failures on trucks that were on a service schedule. I am going to put 5,000 miles on my 2010 300c and send the oil in for analysis. I don't idle my engines for more than a couple of minutes before driving. I also have a 2014 Ram with the 5.7, I have my fingers crossed!
I have a better solution for lifter tick . Use my Turbofield Nano Treatment and solve your problem for long long time . Treated many trucks with great results
@@terrylarson7596 before I traded my Ram in I went to NAPA to look into an oil sample kit. The parts guy told me they are going through tons of cam and lifters for the local police cars. Since they idle a lot the lifters get very little lubrication. I also saw another video that explained how the solenoids work. When the engine has all cylinders firing the solenoids block off the oil galley. It’s oil pressure that deactivates the lifters. He suggested doing away with MDS install caps in place of the solenoids and reprogram the computer so it doesn’t look for solenoids
My 2014 also failed at 101000. Had to replace the engine in 2020. New engine now has 140k on it with no issues
I've been driving my 2012 Ram with the MDS shut off for about 200,000 miles. I haven't had any lifter issues. I disable the MDS simply by pressing the gear limit button on the shift lever. I've been doing this for years because when the truck goes into MDS the rattling/ticking noise the engine makes drives me up the wall, and I'm too cheap to delete the MDS.... lol. I even noticed an improvement in gas mileage after I started doing this by a couple miles per gallon. I also have only ran Mobile one full synthetic oil since the day I bought the truck new in 2012. 240,000+ miles and runs like a champ.
what kind of oil are you using 5w20 or 5w30 ?
Love the video. Had a 2014 hemi with lifter failure. Cost me $3800. Was told by a couple other mechanics afterwards to run it in 8cyl constantly to avoid the issue. That it’s the mds system that causes the issue. After watching your video now I’m afraid I’m damaging it by not letting it go into mds mode. You make a lot of sense for sure.
Appreciate you watching! 👍
How would it damage it? Long as the oil pump good you should be ok
Switching to 5w30 instead of the recommended "water" completely changed the sound of my 2022. My previous vehicle was a Honda 4- cylinder, and I was shocked how similar my Hemi sounded with all the clicks and ticks while idling. After the change, my Hemi sounds more like the one in my daughter's '04 Durango, the way a V8 Hemi SHOULD sound.
I think you've done it . You've removed the to low seat pressure simulation by weaker than valve spring springs , kept constant oil pressure to keep contact I roller on cam and mist importantly put as much lube s possible on that roller and associated needle bearings. You got a big thumbs up and an old mechanics subscription.Thanks for not letting go of this issue.
Appreciate you watching!
Great discussion with the lifter issues. It's crazy that I have an issue that I suspect is a lifter failure with my 17 ram 1500 5.7 with 120,000 miles yet have had no problems with my 05 magnum rt with 260,000 miles on it
Bought our 09 Ram 1500 new, still have it now in 2022, with 211,000km. My daily driver, done lots of towing, hauling heavy loads in the box, and I have always tried to get it into 4cyl as often as possible.
At only 3,000km it started to "tick" at idle when below minus 20 celcius (Calgary Canada), swapped to full synthetic, instant fix. At around the 30,000km service I used regular oil, within 2,000km it ticked again, so drianed and refilled with full synthetic, noise stopped. Been using full synthetic ever since, no problem.
I am a Technician of 40 years, thanks for the indepth demo of he system, as I understood the MDS concept, but never having worked on these didn't know the full operation.
This is all related to oil temp, oil condition, idle time and OIL TEMP! If you are running at full tilt (drag strip, towing all the time) you need a oil cooler with remote radiator! Problem solved! Some do have a problem with weak springs, again maybe do to heat, that cause the lifter to bounce on the lobe causing the failure of the needle bearings in the rollers. Almost all of the one's I changed for noise had the roller plating failed, most came in with misfire problems. Once the plating fails it is just a matter of time before the cam wears or the roller fails. And 90% of them was cylinder 5, non mds lifter, and highest heat area when running in mds mode or not. 30yr chry tech! I have seen the same thing on other engines with rollers used in drag racing. And there is a TSB but it only applies to police vehicles, and just says check the cam for misfire problems.
Great video. I am ADHD, and it's hard to watch a long vid before I lose interest.. loved all the info, great job
Thank you for watching! 👍
I have the same problem. Even on my FAVORITE channels, I won't watch anything over 30-35 minutes.
I have a 2015 5.7 Hemi. I've had the hemi tick. Had to cam, lifters, pushrods, ext. Everything was replaced. Getting ready to do the 3rd set of push rods. Keep wearing the ends off. Everything else looks great.
How often
There's actually more than just safety recalls. Back in the 90's, when I was a Chrysler tech (20+ years), we had to change radio knobs under a customer satisfaction recall. We also had to change vent valves on fuel tanks due to emissions. I JUST got done replacing my cam and lifters. The MDS lifters were the bum ones and ate the cam. I deleted the MDS and used non MDS lifters with a regular cam. No more problems! The cam manufacturer that I discussed this with stated that GM and Chrysler were having a problem was the needle bearings seizing. Good video
You might have answered my question. I made a comment too and I have a GM engine with AFM. I've decided its better to run without it. I keep my transmission in 5th gear manual mode which locks out the AFM. It still uses 1-5th gears as needed. My rpm is 2,100 at 65 mph which is as fast as I normally run. It will go faster! Trust me. I don't like four cylinders flopping around doing nothing and I still get 26mpg on the highway! I'm old and a ex drag racer. Mopar 340 SuperStocks!
With regards to the needle bearings seizing, could that possibly be due to not frequent enough oil changes and contamination getting in there destroying them?
@@TeknoVkng I teach automotive at a local high school and my truck is used to show oil chamges. Every 3000 miles, more than enough!
@ Dale Ezzell, I remember Chrysler honoring a recall of the early (Late 70's) Dodge Omnis & Plymouth Horizons because of some faulty final drive components in the trans-axle assy. Those cars also had recalls because of poor alternator case grounding... Both of those recalls were done, free of charge... Things have changed drastically between Now and back then... It is one of the many reasons WHY I'm not interested in buying a new car anymore... Over-engineered, over-complicated, and over-priced...
Thanks for the info
Another thing to check when the cam/lifter is replaced is to change the VVT solenoid. There are screens in there that catch the stuff from the cam/lifter destruction and will make their own ticking noise. The screens also get brittle and come apart on their own.
Good point! I forgot to put that in there. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ReignitedAuto So there is a Tech bulletin out on that and the VVT solenoid has been redesigned with perforated stainless steel instead of the wire mesh.
I know this comment is a year old at this point.....but wouldnt the vvt solenoid come BEFORE the lifter? And in saying that wouldnt it come AFTER the main engine oil filter? I assumed that any material wiped off the cam would fall into the oil pan and be filtered by the oil filter before being sent back around and into the vvt solenoid?
If, in fact, the mopar plugs do keep the system "ON" or with additional lubrication, GREAT!! What I'd also like to see is lifters with tiny slots, kerfs, channels, that would spray pressurized oil onto the roller ends so that the roller needles are always being oiled, rather than depend on splashing oil.. We, in America, are seeing millions more cars on the roads and that means more and more lights and longer wait times at red lights. That means more time sitting at idle.. Splash oiling doesn't do a lot sitting at idle in gear.
Great channel, by the way!!!! I love your determination!!
Great video, I just got done watching the uncle Tony one also. I've got a 5.7 in the shop it's a repeat from one of my customers. She had the original cam go out due to lifter failure at 160k, I put in a low mileage engine that had 25k on it. It lasted to the 170k mile mark and is starting to have the same failure. I think this is where Tony hit it on the head with the lack of oil over a long period of wear. Unlike other engines that the lifters/cam ran forever. I went to a tech school in the 80's so I spent a lot of time on how things are built. I get lost on the forums with people talking about oil and you mentioned also about the engineers. The funny part on the oil between 5/20 and 5/30 is we start talking about CAFE and CARB standards. We all talk about going down rabbit holes and I see people talking about only 5/20 but when you read every single owners manual under what oil they will all show using 5/30 under severe heat conditions and when I used to work on fleet vehicles. All fleets used to only run 5/30 including all of the rental car fleets in America. I hear all the stories about dealerships saying wrong viscosity, but i've never seen one in 30 years, but i'm a single mechanic and dealerships are seeing a much larger volume than my little shop does. keep putting up videos it was very informative. Thanks.
I've seen the incorrect oil viscosity code a few different times, but hilariously all of them were actually running the correct viscosity and the code was inaccurate. 😄
This is definitely a design problem....dont see chevys or fords or anyone else's engines eating lifters and cams. Uncle tony hit the nail on the head ......roller lifter should be pressure feed and these are not. the oiling system is from an antiquated slant 6 for crying out loud. I just bought a 2011 hemi 1500 at an auction....mistake. haven't owned a Dodge in awhile and probably will never own one again. dodge should be fixing these things and either change the design or scrap this engine.
I think that the block off plug for the solenoid valve is basically doing what you are suggesting with setting the mds on at all times. That would be a normally closed solenoid and then open to allow oil flow when mds is activated. That block off plate is just keeping oil from dumping out of the top of the bore unless I'm not seeing it correctly.
You are indeed correct! This video is a few years old now and I've done quite a bit of further research into this issue. If you'd like to see some more current information check out the video in the pinned comment at the top. 👍
It’s opposite
I've been around quit awhile and been a Mopar Fan for years and seen a lot of the 426 Hemi's and I have NEVER seen a lifter or cam failure on one of them Not One! The Government Emission's Requirements and the New Engineers have all but Killed a good dependable motor anymore, Sad! I've owned Slant Six's 318's, 383's 440's and a couple of 426's and they were super good motor's now it seems like they just build Junk and good luck trying to get Warranty Work done!! That's my Rant for today. Nice Video I just bought a 2022 Ram with the 6.4 Hemi in it we'll see.
This was really good. Even if this wasn’t the case, this is still a really good observation.
Great video.
Thanks! Yea, could be right or wrong, but I thought it was at least interesting. Thanks for watching! 👍
@@ReignitedAuto Heh you were wrong at the end :) just put the non mds plugs in like recommended by tuners.
I like the theory gives you full v8 power at all times, no horrible sounding aftermarket exhaust from dropping into 4cylinder mode and all the while giving better oiling, someone needs to make this happen!
Man my 2005 hemi cherokee through 3 valve seats 2 weeks ago. She was driving it and had to of overheated it the intake melted a bit, when i got to it it smelled burnt like no smell ive every smelled in 25 years of wrenching. Your videos have cleared up so much and pointed me with knowledgeable info and in the right directions. Everyone thinks they know things and i almost listened. After 210k of abuse and 20k miles between oil changes just top off i only need to replace pistons. All bearings are perfect, im obviously still replacing everything i have some upgrades but i am basically building it like your 300. Im keeping the mds i had a solenoid go a year ago and turned off the mds and now replacing the solenoids. I have so much gunk in my intake and cai, so bought a better catch can and will have it on a fresh build instead of installation at 140k. These motors are great i beat this thing, beat charger rts, srt8 can pull away after 40mph and it goes through anything. Thank you for all these videos, i pulled my block apart and wating on parts to arrive. I did paint everywhere and made it very pretty as now i see this jeep going 300k more miles easy, while it was down my i fabbed new inner rockers welded them in and used dominator bedliner everywhere. Its a super clean jeep i get compliments everywhere and now ill get even more.
As extra insurance I use a high zinc level racing oil, I noticed when I switched from Mobil 1 High Mileage to Royal Purple on another vehicle that developed a tick that it went away with the high zinc oil. The oil is around $18 a quart and if you don't want to spend that much Lucas makes a zinc additive that does the same. The oil is only part of it, you need to buy at least a Wix Xp filter or just buy a K&N oil filter. I only use the K&N due to its micron number which catches everything.
I too use LUCAS additive when doing oil changes. Quiets it down.
In the 2016 production FCA quietly upgraded the lifters adding stronger roller needle bearings. The tolerances require using the correct oil. Use synthetic. Change oil often. Some of the failures have been equated to high idle time on the engine.
For sure! Check out my previous video on this issue for more information regarding the idle time, and thank you for watching 👍
If this is the case then that's pathetic people would expect damage from Beating up a motor but, stuck in Detroit or LA traffic ? I believe it though
@@dh4094 Check out my previous video for more info, the excessive idle wouldn't be like getting stuck in traffic, more like letting the vehicle sit and idle for hours at a time like fleet vehicles do. Thanks for watching 👍
Love to hear more information on this upgrade. Just bought a 2021 Ram and I’m wondering now about my decision. Also using wrong oil weight may void the warranty right?
The needle bearings on mine were all perfect. The roller the needles sit in were perfect. The pin the bearings rotated around was ovaled. How does that happen? What went in the one shown? The needles or the pin?
You're info and how you're helping all of us is doing a tremendous service sharing your wisdom and hard earned experience. Thank You!!
You folliwed the trail of clues in true professional form, and seem to have found the issue, or at least a few contributing factors, although I personally think there's another cause of lifter roller failure if I am correct here.
Here goes:
I've always had the impression that the lifters were the part of the lubrication system that was similar to the weight on a purge valve in a steam boiler system, and is designed to trap oil and keep it until it reaches a speciffic pressure before the oil pressure exceeds the limit of the lifters mechanical restriction and it escapes up the puhemup tube rods, and spits on the rockers and valve stems, and is left to gravity drain back to the sump, but never actually looked into this in detail, since it seems logical.
If what I've been led to believe for all these years, is true, then I think there's a chance that this holds a possible clue to the issue as well. It's a 50/50 shot, but since you've directed the lifters, and have an intimate understanding, maybe you can answer my question, but I'll probably look into it like right now.
Thank you for this, as many others have said, you did a better job going through this subject than all the other videos I have watched. A lot of the others almost seem like they are trying to freak us out, like the evening news with scare tactics. I am a long time ACVW guy but recently bought a high mileage 06 Charger R/T. All the Hemi chatter on this subject really freaked me out to a point that I was considering doing a major teardown just to eliminate the MDF lifters and solenoids and doing a tuner delete on the system. I really can't afford to replace or rebuild an engine, so I thought this was a good option. But you have eased my mind quite a bit, especially with your number that you threw out that less than 5% of them have an issue, most of them being fleet vehicles or people that sit in NYC traffic. I do not sit in traffic, I drive 55 mph for 40 minutes to and from work every day and I run good oil and change it on time. Thanks again.
Especially since the pre 2009 model years don't really seem to suffer this issue you're in good shape! I actually really like the '06 models.. Thanks for watching!
Wow, you sure know what you are talking about. I'm grateful to this video after hours of confusion from forums and groups.
Appreciate the kind words, and thank you for watching!
General Motors has the same issue with the LS engines with a similar system to MDS. The only lifters that fail directly correspond to the cylinders that deactivate. The only guarantee to eliminate the issue is a kit that replaces the lifters and special rivets to block off specific oil passages. The issue is in the lifters themselves
@Hybrid Libertarian so let me get this straight, because you’ve never personally experienced it the problem doesn’t exist. Well I’ve never personally experienced or seen lifter failure in a Hemi but I don’t deny it happens. FYI, I spent many years as a GM certified technician. And in those years I replaced many of camshafts, lifters and engines as a result of lifter failer. But if you don’t believe me, feel free to search it here on RUclips and see for yourself.
I've been a professional mechanic for over 30 years, mostly on GM cars, but I can remember camshaft failures on the 305 Chevrolet engine. I have a 2011 jeep grand Cherokee hemi and love it. The biggest thing i do is I always use mobil 1 synthetic oil. I think synthetic oil makes a huge difference!
Thanks for watching Michael!
Police departments that are using the Chevy Tahoe PPVs from 2018 to 2022 are having lifter and camshaft fails at or near 10k miles because of GMs version of the fuel saving displacement system and its not just a few of them. Its A LOT of them that are failing that soon and when replaced and fixed, the lifters and or camshafts are failing again within 5k miles. Now that can't be factory issue right? Can it be that the fuel saving system is that horrible on the GMs or the material used for the lifters and camshafts are just junk? Police department maintenance policies are to not disconnect the fuel saving management system.
Good analysis. Decades ago, I sort-of MDS'ed one cylinder of my 1969 slant-six to disable a worn cylinder until I could swap in a long-block. First, I just removed the solid lifters and pushrods, but a co-worker said that would cause loss of oil pressure (untrue). Fearing that, I put the lifters back, but added weak springs w/ copper tube "pushrods" so they ran against the camshaft lobes but didn't open the valves. Turns out the slant's lifter bores have no oil ports, rather the lifters are just oiled by splash and drip.
I run 10w30 and I’m in Texas. 90k miles I used a tune to remove the MDS. 2014 5.7 Ram. No issues
Thanks for the feedback!
I live in Houston. Ive read on some forums about using 5w30. Is it better to switch to it?
What tuner did you use? I have a 2016 ram
Got to be the best video explaining this issue I've found yet.
Thanks for watching!
Good video, as I've said on other similar videos the GMs and other brands with similar lifters have the same problem. I've replace these on more 5.3s than I can count. A major take away I liked is the need to install the replacement caps after turning off MDS. That extra oiling seems useful for sure.
Thanks for watching! 👍
Great video explaining the oiling of the Hemi! I have been running Red Line 5w30 in my 2013 Ram 1500 5.7 since it had 22000 miles. It has 69600 on it now and have never had a check engine light for the wrong viscosity. I initially started because I got a hot idle tick using Pennzoil Platinum. So far my hot idle tick has stayed away and it runs smooth as silk. MDS works perfectly running the 5w30 as well. I have several UOAs showing wear numbers decreased running a 5w30.
Nice! Thanks for the feedback about running the heavier weight oil. I'm going to start compiling more information like that to do a possible update video later on. Thanks for watching! 👍
@@ReignitedAuto no problem, and thank YOU for making this video explaining the oiling of a modern Hemi!
I have had a 2004 hemi truck since new. The truck has 255,000 miles on it. Used 10-30 oil. No problems AT ALL. Now I purchased a 2020 hemi truck and 8,000 miles on it. The people who last changed my oil showed me that the engine claims it suppose to have 10-20. This is the second oil change and it was shown that they used 10-30 without instructing me of that. Now, I am confused. I will go back to the 10-20 next time. But, you have been instructive. Thanks.
Thanks for watching George!
Interesting idea you presented. I was told by people that race new Gen Hemis (1 guy worked for SRT for several yrs) that the fix on ALL 5.7s, and 6.1s that DO NOT have MDS, is to use the updated HellCat ( also used in 392s) lifter. They are stronger and have been redesigned where the roller does not fail. They say to continue to use a top quality synthetic oil, changed at about 4k. For those with MDS, there is no update at this time.
I have an 09 ram 1500 hemi with 230k miles and have used 10w30 during winter and 10w40 during summer and no lifter failure until now
My buddy has an 09 hemi pushing 280k no lifter issue, his transmission was swapped though
@jose... is your MDS still functioning using 10w40? Im planning to use your same oil
@@jandysanchez yes still working good no issues with trans either but I do have a shift kit from sonnax my oil pressure its 40 at idle
As a mechanic , I can say that not only can the internal lifter springs fatigue , but more obvious to me is the inability of the locking dogs to hold due to wear , such as rounding at the corners and a burring within the lifter groove or channel causing a sticking . Even GM has tried to master this for many yrs unsuccessfully with there AFM, DOD, and VLOM to control oil flows... Personally I think they should let an 8 cylinder be an 8... One other thing of importance that you didnt address was , changing the lifters to standard lifters , you"ll also need to reprogram the fuel management so it doesnt shut the injectors down. Great video, enjoy shop talk.
Right you are sir, thanks for checking out the video! 👍
Good points. A couple items to consider: Did you notice that the connecting rods don't have traditional squirters to oil the opposite bore and reciprocating assembly? Maybe this also contributes to a loss of cam and lifter lube. Some of the engines have fixed block squirters, but not all of them; and those are just for the bores. The old way slings and squirts the oil in all directions. Also, you have to use the thin oil because the new engines are close bearing tolerance engines. Finally I noticed Jasper has videos where they are fixing the valve seat issue and other issues. I think the factory could make a few changes without re-tooling. Also, a video by MMX shows how defectively designed aftermarket lifters can dump the oil pressure as they move up and down. It's pretty interesting. Observations of an Engineer. Shalom
I'll take a look at that MMX video, thanks! 👍
Also the raised cam bore, and the cast in oil galley tube blocks oil sling to help lube the roller camshaft/lifters.
I've been a mechanic for over 30 years and I know every vehicle on the road has its issues. In the early 80s I worked for a Cadillac dealership and we had so many cars coming in with leaking intake gaskets that we had to add stop leak and send them to another dealership to be repaired. GM told us that they experiment with the cars that cost the most because fewer of them would be sold. Currently I own a 2011 jeep grand Cherokee 5.7 hemi and I love it! I have no doubt this engine will go 200,000 plus.
i have a 2017 5.7 and no prob so far at 111,000 will let you know when if have i issues
Any issues? Milage?
I also worked at a cadillac dealer in the 80s, the HT4100 engines came with stop leak from the factory, what were they thinking?
This failure scares the crap outta me. Running a 2012 300 c 5.7 with 145,000 on it. Thinking of repower with 5.7 or 6.4 from manual car with tune. Off topic had camshaft position sensor failure come up changed it and failed again. Instead of changing again I just replaced main cpu ordered online with all updates and it fixed problems. Great channel. I will pay close attention to you from now on.
I appreciate you watching!
Was planning to buy a Ram now that you convinced me to get a tundra and forget all the ram and the problems it’s going through:)
Lol, search RUclips with this, 2022 Toyota Tundra engine failure, 2023 and 2024 Tundras included.
Even the 5.7 has issues like this too in the Toyota fewer then ram but they are there
@@mattcummings6325I mean aren’t all non hybrid Tundra engines subject to recall?
As for the oil: I run 5w30 redline. I have no ticks and I have no CEL, though the main reason I choose to run 5w30 is because of the pcv design. Before switching to 5w30, I had to dump my catch can every 500-750 miles, after switching to 5w30 I'm at 2000 miles and the bottom of my catch can is filled. So like 1/8th of my catch can at the most. That alone was a huge benefit. Another thing i did while cleaning out my intake manifold was unplugging the solenoids for cylinder deactivation, that did throw a cel, but a tune got rid of that cel for me and it makes me more comfortable as I believe cylinder deactivation is the direct cause of the lifter problem in these hemis.
I have a 2003 RAM 3500 dually with a 5.7 with 310k with NO internal issues. Water pumps??? Yup, three of them plus one radiator. It has all of the original hoses and has been extremely reliable. It was my daily driver for 18 years and I decided to put it in my work fleet and bought a 2020 RAM 3500 SRW with the HO Cummins. I love my RAMs and feel bad for those of you having issues. Just my 2 cents.
Cheers guys.
Maybe if the engineers were mechanics first they could design something lasts more than just past the warranty period.
The engineers are designing new ways and new parts that have never been designed/thought of before when making new motors. So how are they supposed to know, 100% if it all works just fine, being a mechanic or not. It's new stuff.
The reality is manufactures contract atleast 1,000 engineers total in dozens of countries tasked to each design one small part of the vehicle’s system. In a perfect world engineers would get their hands dirty, but it’s just not feasible with mass produced vehicles.
From what I’m seeing is not enough oil to the lifters . You would think companies like Dodge and Ford have been around long enough to know how to build an engine better than this.
Interesting video. I’ve had my 03 hemi ram since new. I noticed a ticking just after a few thousand miles. The dealership shop said it was normal and it persisted until just after 200,000 miles. It now has 215,000 miles and it’s completely gone. It runs as good as ever and the ticking is gone. I have always used mobile1 full synthetic and a K&N oil filter from its first oil change till now. Always 5w-30 I don’t know how or why it went away, but it did. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣. 18 years down and I hope many more to come.
Those first gen Hemi's were pretty solid! 👍
I just bought a 2013 5.7 with 230000 kms on it. Has some noise in top end but dash says 29 idle hrs. 5000 total hrs. For a few yrs now I’ve been cooking Borax in my oil. Seems to clean out carbon build up and turns back time on my engines. I’ll see how it works in this case. Thanks for your video..😊
Borax???
The hemis with a manual transmission don’t have MDS the have the plug from the factory. Idle time has a lot to do with lifter failure also because the oil brakes down before the mileage is due for oil change.
That's correct. Thanks for watching! 👍
Lower pressure at idle as well
oil quality never is the issue .follow manufacturers recommendation .as per Scotty Kilmer
@@VicTor-gi7so I don’t listen to that man.
i have a 2014 6.4L and its been running great. But I do change my oil twice as often. I have 198,000km on it
I liked your comment that they are close to a redesign any way so they may address the lifter at that time. Your comment is from early 2021 and here we are now in early 2024 and the way the problem is being “addressed” is to replace the Hemi with the Hurricane 6 cylinder. I think you may be able to see the future! BTW, as an engineer, I (unlike some of the commenters) really appreciated your detailed, step-by-step explanation. Thanks.
I had the problem of the tick and I didn’t wait to fix it. I was surprised to see that the cam and the rolers were in good condition. My hypothesis is rather a problem of lifter and not lubrication, by unbloking the lifter, it is to use from the inside and by force to use it can no longer maintain the pressure of the lifter that results from the failure of the lifter. The people wait to much before fix ut, and that destroy the cam. Sorry if i have a poor english i’m french canadian 😁
Wow - Great hemi lifter video! I have had this conversation with an experienced Hemi tech still working at a dealer and he was NOT in the camp of there being a design flaw. He did confirm though that Hemi and LS engines that are fleet / service vehicles with excessive hours at idle will likely have MDS / DOD lifter issues and wiped cams. Most lifter jobs he did were on police pursuit Chargers or fleet pickups. So what about dummies like me who just tune out the MDS without replacing the lifters or blocking off the solenoids? Am I helping or hurting my engine? I tuned them out because the exhaust drone was horrible and I don’t drive my charger enough to worry about MPG (want my horses there full time)
I don't think you'll have any issues with it. Like you mentioned, most of the problems come from excessive idling. Usually chargers/challengers that are driven in a sporty fashion don't seem to have the same issues. Thanks for watching! 👍
I drive a 2008 jeep grand cherokee with the 5.7 hemi and i tuned off the MDS two months ago and have no issues yet, also i speak to a guy that did the same thing and no issues, it been three years sinces he tuned off the MDS
How did you turn off the MDS, with a tuner?
@@markleonard5604 I have the Diablo tuner, an unlocked PCM and a custom tune. No issues with MDS turned off for 3 years. If you start modding your car for power gains unlocking your PCM for 2017 and newer vehicles is required. Diablo Platinum EX has a setting to turn it off or you can get a custom tune to shut it off.
Yeah with the raised cam placement you wanna use the thinner viscosity oil, I think it's 5w20 recommend for 09- up, so that the oil will throw up to the cam. Thicker oil isn't gonna do it at lower or idle come
Very clever, I've seen that option on another yt video. Camshaft is basically too far...
The hemi engine is somewhat finicky,
- It doesn't want to be idled for long periods of time
- Using the wrong oil viscosity/poor oil quality/ incorrect oil level
- Driver abuse and neglect
-Revving the heck out of it while cold.
That being said, it's a pretty good engine and maintenance must be done on schedule no excuses. Also don't use sketchy aftermarket parts like you experienced with the "valve springs" lol. Cheers
I'm still annoyed about that valve spring debacle 😄
What’s this valve spring problem..?
@@Preinkd In a previous video not to long ago, he rebuilt an Chrysler 300 engine and sold it to a customer. It had one bad aftermarket valve spring which cracked into pieces. You guessed it, he had to replace them all with Mopar OEM ones.
How about valve train issues & dropping valve seats. Lots of problems... Does anything ever get a permanent fix??
my chrysler 07 has a slight hemi tick at 1000-1500 rpm i rev my car to 2000 rpm and it goes away saw a video saying that at 2k rpm it lubricates the cam better and so far its been working
Is yours an MDS ? My understanding was it was 09 when it came out. I have a 17 300 Hemi, and the Wife has an 09 Ram. The truck has had 2 camshafts in 90k. We recently switched to Amsoil, and the engines have never sounded better.
I’ve got 5-w30 on in my 5.7 and it runs great and is definitely more whole.
What year? And does it have cylinder deactivation?
does it have MDS?
We use 5 w 30 as well on our 5.7 RT with MDS. I have never heard the MDS kick on until 3 months ago. Other than that she runs strong. We are planning on doing a cam shaft and lifter upgrade soon. Glad we found this dude because I am so ready to deactivate that MDS it's beyond annoying.
My dad is having lifter issues and this explains it well. Glad I don’t own a Hemi nor plan on it. No thanks
I need a syllabus for this excellent lecture on Hemi 5.7 lubrication, cylinder deactivation, lifters tech, and the number of other subjects you touched. How many credit hours do we receive? 🤔😁
Appreciate you watching!
Thank you for doing a video on this. I always enjoy hearing different input/opinions.
Thanks man, appreciate you watching! 👍
I have 3 vehicles with 5.7 hemis. The 2015 Challenger has 40k miles has no hemi tick and runs great. I used 10-40 syn with a quart of lucas oil stabilizer on every 3-4 mile oil change.
My 300 has 170 k miles with the same oil procedure. This one runs perfect and gets a solid 21 mpg and has zero hemi tick.
My ram 1500 has 280 k miles. This is daily driver maintenance is pretty lack. I do not warm it up and the kicker is this thing has massive amount of idle time. I let it run in the summer all day long with A/C running and in winter it idles all day (8-10) hours. One winter win i had charging system issues i let it run for 4 days never shut it down between 10 mile trips to work. Out of this 96 hours the idle time was over 90 hours. This engine is still solid with zero hemi tick.
The biggest question i have is between the ram and the 300. The 300 gets a solid 21mpg and the ram struggles to get 12 mpg. In addition i drive the ram way easier than the 300.
I've been running Penzoil Platinum synthetic 5w-20 in my 2018 Chrysler 300s 5.7 and I add 15oz LubeGard "Bio/Tech" (blue bottle). I hope that this will fortify the oil and protect the lifters, especially when in 8cyl mode and on cold starts.
Lubeguard has a healthy dose of soluble moly and esters that have a strong affinity for ferrous metals.
Awesome video! I always wondered how they actually deactivate a moving piston! Looking at what all you explained, you can definitely see how viscosity would play a roll in such a complex valvetrain.
Hello Sky, New subscriber here, Love your videos! I found your channel while trying to do some diagnostic research. I have an '06 Magnum RT AWD with the 5.7. She has 130K on her and until last week has been whisper quiet as far as engine noise. I do 90% of the repair work on the car but have used JL to do almost 100% of the oil changes. Last month I replaced the original alternator and the oil pressure switch which had given me a P0520 code. I also had a failing cat, and the exhaust from the cats back was also original. I had my local mechanic replace the exhaust and change the oil. A few hundred miles later I wake up to a low oil pressure light. The EVIC showed no pressure. I checked the oil and the level was fine. restarted the car and light was off pressure increased with the rpm's. I drove my son to the train station (10min) trip. on my way home the low pressure light would come on at idle. No noise, no performance issues. I drove her home and parked her. the next morning I got up and went to check on the light. again it was on , but this time it didn't go off with increased rpms. I let the motor idle while I tried to think what the hell could the problem be, bad switch? Shit that's a PITA to get to. While I was thinking the top started to clatter, I shut her down and thought, OK, she's not getting oil.....WTF? any idea what I should be looking at? I know i specified 5w20 to my mech, could it be that JL has been using a heavier weight? coincidence that the oil pump just up and failed? any insight or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.... I just tossed 4K into the exhaust, alternator and switch repairs and would hate to loose it. Thanks !
If it's clattering up top it's likely that the oil pressure sensor is reading properly. But it's always good to double check. If you have access to an oil pressure gauge you can hook it up where the stock sensor screws into the block and verify the oil pressure. If it is low, the next easiest thing to check is to remove the engine oil pan and take the pickup tube off to inspect the o-ring. If the o-ring is OK then unfortunately at that point it's probably time for an engine. It's not common for these engines to have super low oil pressure like that so I hope it's something more simple than that.
@@ReignitedAuto Thanks for the reply....since dropping the pan is a PITA on the AWD magnum, I opted to pull the timing cover, that's where I found the problem. the tensioner failed and the plate cracked and was riding on the crank gear... metal shavings caused the relief valve in the pump to stay open. there was a shard of that metal in the pan and very little else. The oil filter seemed to have caught the majority of any metal. hopefully preventing it from getting too far into the engine. I'm hoping to flush with kerosene install new TC assembly, Melling HV oil pump and a new water pump. I can't seem to find links for the "o" ring gaskets for the metal heater tubes (where they enter the water pump) any sources or links for those? and any other caveats you could think of would be greatly appreciated. also a link to the reignited merch.... need a hoodie and some stickers for the magnum (once shes running) Thanks! Peace, Ant
I was wondering what percentage of Hemi’s had this problem. Thank you for answering that question and several others that I had.
I do have to say that this is just based off of my own experiences as a dealership tech, these are not official numbers at all. But from what I can tell it's fairly accurate. Thanks for watching! 👍
@@ReignitedAuto well mines been sitting since 2012 due to the MDS issue... and i cant afford to buy the new lifters and cam to fix the problem so my 05 only had a few years of use before everything went to s#!t on it and burned out 2 lifters and messed up the cam... Chrysler refused to fix the issue before it got that bad and now that it went to that point they refused to touch it and im stuck with one of the last units manufactured by the Daimler Chrysler corp. before they went separate ways. a big reason why i will never buy a dodge or chrysler ever again
@@PENDULUMAAOD1 There's a pretty interesting story about Daimler exiting from Chrysler. Now with Fiat in charge its meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Part of the reason why I no longer work for them.
@@PENDULUMAAOD1 HMMM, my 04 Dodge 1500 I bought new, still running like new 200k miles. The best truck I have ever owned, and yes I have driven many brands, started driving mid 60's
@@ReignitedAuto Dang, you worked for Chisler as a tech ?
I'm sorry for your loss, of time, $, and life.Of all dealer techs, word is they get hosed the most . Ball joint warranty job for .5 ? No thanks. At least you have skills to make $ off em now. Question: how do you remove d/s ex manifold from jeep grand Cherokee hemi ?
Very nicely done video, love the disassembled pics. There is a few problems with your line of reasoning toward the end of the video. First off there is full pump pressure to the lifter body at all times on engines with those plastic plugs and if you worked at a dodge dealer for ten years you have seen plenty of cars with manual trans and 3/4 or 1 ton trucks that had lifter failures with those plastic plugs, basically just like you said millions of miles of testing and it has resulted in the lifters still failing. This works just like you said about activating the MDS solenoids for full oil flow. This is not an MDS problem. 08 and older engines had MDS with no lifter problems. All of the failed lifters I have seen have tiny needle bearings in the roller, they are so small you can barely see them inside the wheel, the set in your picture has this style, somewhere along the line they switched to a larger needle bearing in the roller and the failures almost if not totally quit. The dealer I buy all my lifters from showed me this and I looked through my scrap bin and he was right, all the failed lifters were ones with the small needle bearings. The new lifters they sell (my dealer calls them hellcat lifters) have a larger needle bearing you can easily see inside the roller tip, I have never seen a failure of this larger needle bearing lifter. I also saw the video of the guy blaming the failures on the raised cam, that is not the issue either, it was not an issue from 03-08 so it would not be the issue on later ones wither. Next time you buy a set of lifters from the dodge dealer look at the size of those needle bearings, the bigger needles will roll over microscopic particles better than a smaller wheel kind of like how your floor jack gets stuck on a pebble but a car tire won't, also being more open and exposed to oil will get more lube in to keep it rolling.
Hey David appreciate your reply and your insight! You're right about the plugs allowing full oil pressure, didn't realize that until after I posted the video. As far as the problem being resolved after they updated the lifter roller bearings, I don't feel like that's the case, as I've done multiple lifter failures on 2016, 2017 and 2018 vehicles. At this point, I'm more inclined to believe the issue lies with a failure of the cam lobe hardened surface, which then causes the lifter roller to fail. Totally agree that the issue is not due to where the lifters are placed in the engine though.
I do have a picture showing the older style lifters with the smaller rollers right next to the larger style newer ones on a community post I made awhile back.
Again, appreciate you watching and chiming in! 👍
Great video sir. MOST videos don't go into depth on HOW a system works. You have and that's super valuable. I have a Hemi on a RAM 1500 and #7 is deactivated. I'm trying to figure out what's causing this. The system keeps burning up the coil on #7 and the time it takes keeps getting shorter and shorter. I'm also getting an overvoltage code. I'm trying to figure out what sends the voltage to the coil to see if that part has failed, etc.
This most important fact about all "engine stuff" was left out. That is that the US government and the EPA work endlessly to make sure Americans have the most INEFFICIENT engines the world has ever seen. They devise mechanical systems like the one in this video to give consumers the illusion that they will get better fuel economy, when in fact the system doesn't even need to exist. We have had the technology for DECADES to make an engine equal size to this Hemi get 100 mph no problem. But, they like our money... and nothing else.
It's a very interesting I've always wondered if the spring s in the lifters are losing there streanth over time causing the lifters to slap against the cam is love to see some one your idea
They are pretty strong springs actually, I was surprised. I had to remove all but one to show visually the action. I suspect the three together would be very hard to lose their tension. Thanks for watching! 👍
Yeah the hole thing weird people have gotten hundreds of thousands of miles on them with no problems and a failure rate of 4 percent maybe a bad batch of lifters or cams?
You'll know if that happens cuz you will hear slapping.
Exactly! This sounds like it could at least be A FACTOR
I've been looking at the cam lobe marks on cams taken out of 5.7 cam/lifter failures. it's on the backside of the lobe (decel side). Lobe bumps up to open the valve, passes apex of lobe, spring slack/ valve float not keeping the lifter down on the cam and it's slamming back into the cam, binding the roller and causing repeated chatter. Degrading the lifter, then subsequent degradation of the cam.
The engine noise/chatter might even be mistaken for lifter failure, depending on how loud it is.
Remember the days when lifters lasted longer than the engine and car.
Ah the good old days, when engines were far less efficient than they are now. 😄 I kid I kid
I remember. The lifters would be done by 60,000 miles.
@@ReignitedAuto old 440 still running after 45 years with 350,000 miles. Gas mileage.... Meh who cares
Good times back then
No
Ok I had my cam and lifters replaced about 4 months back. A personal friend of mine that is the director of service for 4 dodge dealerships in California told me this. We on the average have two or 3 of these repairs ongoing in each and every dealership. Sounds a lot more common than 5% of them.
Change oil... full synthetic 5W-30 and filter every 5K Mike's and avoid any internal engine wear that's not normal (bearing wear etc)
On every video that has to do with the Dodge Chrysler product or hemi engine, there’s a Ford guy. This is that guy paid by Ford to draw attention from Ford being the most recalled vehicle on the planet this guy does not own a dodge pro where he had the cam and lifter replaced. He’s a liar.
@@davidmckinley7468on the ones we serviced from new, we ran 15w50 full synth Esther based oil with zinc and haven't had a fail yet. Way too much load on three pissy needles at a time with sewing machine oil viscosity. And to top it off, the cars that were rebuilt after the cam lifter mods tragedy we're done non mods and we're more economical. It wasn't about economy, it was Nox level reduction during certification.
@@AmericanSurvival001funny that, we haven't seen a lifter cam fail in a coyote from cylinder deactivation, but sure done a few Chevy AFM and Chrysler mds engines.
I was waiting to see what you had. You literally hit what we came up with at our dealership.
Appreciate you watching! 👍
thank You so much for your knowledge on the MDS system. I had owned a 2007 RAM hemi and a 2018 eco-diesel. Loved them both but did not trust the eco-diesel so I sold it when it had 50k miles on it. I wish I would have known about the MDS system before I took on my 2012 RAM 1500 5.7 hemi project. Bought it from a bank repo and knew nothing about the history of the truck. It was not well taken care off. It had the hemi tick. Ran very badly. Watched many videos. I tore into it and found four lobes on the camshaft worn down damaged, one ground down so much there appeared to be no lobe. Lifters also very worn and damaged. I wanted to do the MDS delete but did not know how plus an added expense to have the PCM software changed. I was told the dealer would not even do the delete and it had to be aftermarket like Diablo. Wish now that I did it. After putting in a new camshaft, lifters, and MDS solenoids, new timing chain kit and an upgraded oil pump like you recommended, and a couple sensors and 4 new O2 sensors and a few minor non engine things, I thought I was doing pretty good. It started it and it sounded great. But I still had an O2 sensor code, a new MAP sensor code and the dreaded flashing red throttle light and a check engine light and it was in limp mode about now I was going bonkers and being a fair DYI mechanic, decided that I was going to beat this beast. Figured out the O2 issue (electrical connector and it was very difficult to reach it B1S1) and the MAP was also an electrical connector issue. So I start it up O2 sensors all read good. Now a new code popped up. Misfire in #4 cylinder. Oh crap. Took off the valve cover. Number four Intake valve was not moving at all, but the exhaust valve was working. By now I am cursing the MDS system. No way this could happen. Did not think it was the MDS solenoid because the exhaust valve was working properly. reluctantly, took off the head and verified the lifter was stuck in MDS mode. I am thinking cheap chinese parts but I used good OEM parts. I could stick a probe in the oil hole and push the little pins in and it would lock into the normal mode, however, I did not trust putting it back in the engine. I bought the front four lifter set. It has been too cold to put it back together. So this is where I am at. What a nightmare.
I thought about what you said... to do the delete lifters and plugs and just run it like that. The thought crossed my mind that the PCM might want to throw out more DTC codes because at some point it is expecting to go into MDS mode. Any how.
I asked GOOGLE AI if the upgraded oil pump could have possibly provided enough oil psi where it could have activated the Lifter??? It responded "unlikely" because the MDS solenoid would have to be activated to allow enough oil pressure to do that. I still question that it might happen. But at any rate, it would not go back into normal mode so I just relaced it. Have not finished it yet and will wait a bit for warner temps. Sorry for the long story but I thought you would appreciate this hemi sob story.
Because extended idling time causes this, I no longer drive my pickup when getting Whataburger from their drive thru. :)
I let mine idle too long a few times. Now I'm using a non MDS cam with Hellcat lifters. Currently in the process of repairing now.
@@Dandoesit66 also you can use the gear down method. It shuts off the mds. I do it for my Ram 2014 express 4x4
Until covid restrictions and drive thru was the only option, I would always park and go inside to get fast food.
You literally addressed the comments from the former video!! That's awesome, I feel like you directly made this video in reply to my long winded comment as I'm sure others do as well , you have a great personality to pull that off my friend , thanks for the video il be looking forward to more from this channel.
Thanks man I appreciate that! Honestly the feedback from viewers has been really enjoyable, lots more actual discussion than I expected. Thank you again for watching! 👍
@@ReignitedAuto I have to say I'm impressed with your analysis here, in my former comment I stated the issues I have dealt with were from construction trucks that idle ALOT and I as well mental pictured the high cam and wide lifters with the drains located as they are as being a big ticket problem but your idea really takes it that much further with the MDS explanation....great detective work to all😉 I see this channel bring forth a great deal of good information in the future with folks consolidating experience and ideas.
Something I've tested in my own world as a fleet mechanic where these Hemi's have a lot of idle time is using an engine oil with a higher HTHS rating. HTHS is High Temperature High Shear rating. The Lifters aren't shearing the oil but what an oil with a High Temperature High Shear also offer highly loaded components additional wear protection in areas like needle bearings, and in lifters when under load. A lot of oil companies will not share this data with you and some will. I've had to send oils to the labs to figure out which have it. What I've found is a Group III synthetic engine oil usually has higher than minimum HTHS values as do most diesel engine oils. An easily available oil that won't break the bank is Amsoil's XL series (one step down from their top of the line oil). It has a higher HTHS rating because of its Group III oil base. In engines that we have used this and that see extended idling where this seems to be the biggest problem, we don't see repeat failures. It also helps in their PentaStar engines where they keep revising the Cam followers for needle bearing failure. Even on GEN 1 PentaStars from 2011/2012 they survive again with using a higher HTHS engine oil. In my Caravan I use 5w30 Amsoil XL Series because the HTHS is 3.3 and I have almost 0 wear showing up on my oil analysis reports. When my father in-law runs Pennzoil (the recommended oil) it has higher wear numbers. So... Your results may vary but in our fleet of HEMI and PentaStar engines we have ultra low wear numbers on our oil analysis reports. Try it! And no I'm not a dealer for Amsoil, and no I have no affiliation with them or want to push their products. They just publish their HTHS values for their oils and using their oils for decades I've seen none of the failures that are common with engines on the road and I think it's the HTHS playing a crucial role.
Nice explanation! I'm an old, out of practice A&P mech and this system is definitely genius! I also believe the problem lies in your lack of lubrication theory. I hope someone will test this out further or at least compile a ratio of mds to non-mds lifter/cam damage to compare. Thanks for the video! 👍
Thanks for watching!👍
Don't both the MDS in the solid lifter get the same lubrication in MDS because the pins deadhead in and they have the same pressure as the non MDS one so they would be getting oil pressure the same
If not that lack of oil, what else would cause the excessive wear on the mds roller bearings and the mds cam lobes only? Perhaps it's a simple as the mds lifter being allowed to collapse and not function as a solid, sliding lifter throwing oil around? Or maybe my thinking is off. Wouldn't be the first time...
I've used 10W40 super Tech for years in my 5.7 hemi and never had a problem at all
Awesome! thanks for the information, lot's of feedback on this so far, thanks for watching! 👍
Synthetic or regular oil?
@@emanuelnamseth1469 regular oil
I like to use 0-20 in the winter here in Canada and my mechanic tells me I am nuts. I don't see why I would use the same oil viscosity that folks in Arizona would use.
I will try 10W40... No issue meaning no lifter tick and unusual noises?
I was thinking 5W50 but I would like to stick on 40 itself. I live on warm tropical weather
It's way more than 5% failure rate on these lifters and cams. It may be 5% during the warranty period but it is way high just after the warranty period. When mine went out on my 2014 Ram you couldn't even get lifters for it from anyone including Dodge and they hac over 20K backorders and could not give you and estimated time for new ones to arrive. That is a major failure rate.
💯
Man I've tried to explain that recall thing to sooooooo many people. From dealership experience tsb's are your best friend. I worked for Chevy for 6yrs and you learn alot about the sideways stuff that happens in the manufacturer world!
I have a 2015 ram with the 8 speed. I use the gear selector to turn off the mds, then use 0-20 oil and have 120k with no issues.
Your using the wrong oil.
@@floridajames04 you don’t know anything about oil do you? 0w20 oil is thicker at operating temp then at room temp as all multi viscosity oils are. Soooo, at start up when your engine oil has drained out of the block heads lifter etc 0 weight oil runs through the system faster…. Why do you think the hellcat engine is 0w40?……hint it isn’t fuel economy……
@Josh Krause you're not a bright one are you? The Hemi Ram engine isn't the same as a hellcat, nor does it use the same engine. Hahahaha you're gonna cook your engine before long using the incorrect oil. 120K miles isn't even alot on a truck.
I have a 2019 Ram 2500 Power Wagon 6.4 and it’s starting to make tapping noises at idle.
After watching this I think if I could do something I would drill through all of the lifter passages like adding a MDS oil port to each lifter. Get a tune and turn on MDS at only idle. Then you ensure your get oil at low RPM to all lifters and drip it down to the camps and roller.
Since I did notice after driving and coming to a stop the noise is gone. So the theory of lubrications while driving maybe true but at idle it lacks oil.
Anyways thanks for the info I will keep following my problem and probably take it to the dealer once I prove the issue is repeatable. I hope I don’t need an engine replacement at 15 k miles !